Lancer Tactics

[weak willow]

Monarch is the culprit

[hazy ferry]

Do you have autosave/logs?

[weak willow]

it's from pilot roster

i can do a video if that'd be helpful

maybe i should fresh install the entire game because i feel like the bugs i get are always unique

so I tested and apparently it's monarch

I created a new pilot from scratch and gave it Tlaloc, it was fine, but when i tried to change the mech from Everest to Monarch the game crashed as well

anyone else have a similar issue?

[alpine sorrel]

Are you on the 0.4.2 hotfix?

I can take a look when I get back home tonight and maybe do another hotfix

[tulip peak]

Get your fresh new Raleighs and Blackbeards

[hazy ferry]

No Raleigh Hammer? Sadge

[final mesa]

Opening character sheets mid battle? We have the technology!

[weak willow]

new skins for Raleigh and BB are incredible

new animations for missiles and mech destruction are

i love the Napoleon, it feels so different

[weak willow]

i should be! Downloaded around 10pm after you had sent the message about the hotfix

So far the bugs I've run into are just the Monarch cannot be edited in Pilot Roster, and changing colors "sticks" to whatever you mouse over, not just click. This includes saved palettes in the row at the top

can provide videos of both as they are consistent

if that is helpful

[final mesa]

Smoke particles resemble hexagons, LT finally added hexagons game is saved, literally playable, game of the year.

[weak willow]

Olive did the impossible and found a way to please hex lovers and grid lovers in the same game

i daresay the blackbeard sprite is probably the best one in the entire game

[brisk snow]

It’s very close between bb and Nelson

What license level should you be playing against which tiers?

[graceful hollow]

tier 1 is 0-4, tier 2 is 5-8, and tier 3 is 9-12

[smoky glacier]

also, remember that the tier is automatically matched to your LL, and the tier option is a modifier not a selector, iirc

[alpine sorrel]

Alright, just pushed another hotfix (0.4.3):

• should for real address the character sheet crash, with the monarch this time
• roland chamber damage+prone only works with loading weapons
• isk CP consumed appropriately

[alpine sorrel]

Oh dang I forgot to do a community maps update too

[burnt frigate]

I'm now curious, how do the various D&D/pathfinder RPGs handle their combat odds

the "d20 is very swingy" thing is correct, and I know video games often do fudge numbers on the back-end because people are notoriously extremely bad at estimating how percentages should work (see everyone melting down over Unfair Flips) so now I'm wondering how Baldur's Gate 3 does it or something

[icy creek]

BG3 has karmic dice which smooths out streaks of low/high rolls, but it also tells the player this outright and lets players disable it

[young sorrel]

Super quick before I download the new version, can I safely delete the files for the old version without corrupting anything?

I currently have about three copies of Lancer Tactics installed in different places and don't want to make it four

[teal flame]

yeah, think so

[young sorrel]

Hooray

Ahh that feels good

Paracausal Pinaka Missiles to dunk on War Bois

[young sorrel]

Not a bug but a "please change this", the travel time for the Pinaka Missile animation is way too long

[rain cipher]

I have a weird bug to report:
When making a map, the png export doesn't work for me. It opens the File Explorer box, but the file type is *.* and when I hit OK, it doesn't create a file. To troubleshoot, I:

• made an empty .txt file and replaced it, but it remained empty.
• ended the file name with .png, but that ended up creating a file that ended .png. < with an extra dot, that... no other program thinks exists??? Like I can't delete it or rename it because it doesn't exist, or open it in another program for the same reason.

[young sorrel]

Question for Olive, if there were bugs in a previous version that were reported but didn't get mentionned in the bug fix page and didn't get fixed, should we re-report them?

[rain cipher]

Also while I'm here, I'm not sure if someone on the team is colourblind or there's something going on with the shader, or it's intentional, but these boulders and rocks are green, as are the block labelled "stone" and the sides of some others that I assume are meant to be grey. I tried compatibility mode and it was the same.

[final mesa]

I don't know about the RPGs, but the Pathfinder 2e TTRPG has a few things. Firstly it had degrees of success based on how much you exceed or fall flat of the target number. Anything above or below by 10 becomes a crit hit/fail. And then different types of rolls have their results depend on what degree of success or failure, and can make it so that a fail isn't just that you get nothing, good day sir. So you feel alright even if you miss because your big attack didn't completely whiff.
And then on the martial side, a big aspect is that you generally are trying to take multiple attacks if possible and so you have the stacking multiple attacks penalties, but if things are tuned that your first attack is generally quite likely to hit, and potentially even Crit, but the future attacks are the ones where the variety of outcomes are more apparent. So most characters are gonna land their first blow, even rolling kinda poorly. But the second and third attacks are up in the air. And the martial characters are also some of the ones that can reduce that multi attack penalty best, so they're more likely to hit those secondary attacks, but aren't any more likely for that first one.

I'm sure there's more to say about the system and its choices in this regard but hopefully that helps answer what you're asking.

Tbh lancer also kinda does something similar with its "a crit is anything over 20" and tying the extra damage and effects to the crit. So yeah any success is good, but crits are where the juice is.

[young sorrel]

WRT the thought about fudging dice rolls for the tutorial. I think you should guarantee that every attack you make in the tutorial hits. Don't mention that you're doing this, and don't do it outside the tutorial, but just keep rerolling the dice until you hit. Not only do you not want players to die in the tutorial, but Lancer is not a solo game, and having one mech instead of four multiplies the effects of variance a lot

[final mesa]

As for the tutorial, you could try and give the PC squad weapons that have reliable, and acc too. So that misses are less punishing, and guns that are more likely to hit in the first place.

[young sorrel]

Problem is there are two GMS weapons with innate accurate, and many builds at LL0 just have to deal with rolling a d20

[torpid orbit]

Not a bug, But I really think there should be a reminder that one of your mechs has abjure on them before attacking

[thin lark]

Guess I’ll soon find out how well it works under wine…

After breakfast. And then I’ll let you know the results. (I have high hopes, Godot stuff usually works fine, though I suppose it usually also has a native build so my sample size is pretty small.)

[thin lark]

Seems to work fine! Have to jump through even more hoops to get to the data folder but was expecting that.

Iskander perhaps feels left out, every other frame gets a sometimes mildly humorous tagline as well as the supposed classification of the frame, and it just gets

Also, I can delete a pilot without even a check box, but the cycle the NHP button successfully causes feelings and trepidation. Great success, if I understand your viewpoint correctly!

Related, and I'm not even sure this is a bug or not but presumably it is: Cycling the NHP does not work. It appears to reset their appearance, but then when you leave they're back to whatever they were set to before you cycled them in the first place. (Edit: If you go into the appearance editor after resetting to default, and then confirm the default, -that- saves)

[small panther]

That and drag down before moving etc., yeah

[thin lark]

I want to mention I love all the new little icons for systems and things

[final mesa]

What if it was minelayer, and then an eyebrow wiggle followed by a wink? "Minelayer 😉 "

[weak willow]

This stuff is huge for QoL

All the little icons for shields, RPGs, look amazing

[thin lark]

Yeah, they go a long way to making it look polished and swish, so I wanted to mention how good they were. Obviously loads more to go, but, good stuff so far!

[thin lark]

Chromite is actually often greenish, though nowhere near as uniform as the pile makes it look.

Can someone on Windows with the latest release open up the Combat Editor and see if you can see any block types, please? I'm getting this, but I'm running through Wine and so I've no idea if this is: a new bug for this version, a bug for me personally, or a bug for running through Wine

Interestingly there are SOME setpieces, but clearly not all. Similarly, there's some stuff in doodads but not the full list

Funny :)

[wary nymph]

May I ask what the Tortuga system that caused problems was? Was it the "provides cover to adjacent mech"?

[thin lark]

(I miss the old payload sprite somehow, even though the new object is far 'better')

[proud dirge]

no it was throughbolt lol

[wary nymph]

Ah yes, that makes a lot of sense.

[proud dirge]

Much like the Metalmark, I blew through the entire Tortuga license in an hour or two… save for the damn Throughbolt Rounds. Unlike the Metalmark, I do not forgive the Tortuga because it had more fiddly rule riders.

[thin lark]

... Sniper's AMR seems to have the rapid fire gun sound effect now. Or maybe it always had.

Diluvian Ark can't be recast until it expires (end of next turn), but it should presumably be able to? To maintain constant protection

That said, it seems to have persisted past the end of the next turn anyway. Something is a bit weird there. I'll see if I can find the autosave...

Also, it rolled a 4, and then the attack hit anyway:

It doesn't log the d6 rolling a 4 but you can see from the double-heat cost that Diluvian Arc did proc.

Here's the autosave from just -after- that attack, in case that's useful.

[weak willow]

Definitely didn't use to

[thin lark]

Ah, I see the one problem. It asked me if I wanted to use Diluvian Ark against an attack that wasn't hitting the Saladin OR something adjacent to it.

And I said yes, and it triggered and cost heat, but obviously, it only works on stuff that's adjacent

And so it didn't affect it.

But it did still cost heat!

(Log of those events)

I believe the Monarch was standing next to the Saladin when Diluvian Ark was activated, but moved away on its own turn, which was a fair bit earlier in the round, and now this is NEXT round.

yeah, Diluvian Ark prompt just came up for a turret drone deployed after the Ark was initiated, and not anywhere NEAR adjacent to the Saladin

hypothetically... possibly because Warp Shield was about to prompt for the same thing?

... when you use Shift Payload, the box dances as you're selecting a target. Funny.

6/2 = 3, -1 is... 2, right? Or are we doing 6-1 = 5/2 = 2[.5]? Either way, 1 seems wrong.

Specifically, this was a Flank overwatch attack as part of another attack, which the Assault used Hunker Down against.

I think that's a new attack, and shouldn't get resistance, but I see how the math goes now - the base damage was halved to 3, -1 for armour to 2, then halved by resistance against all damage.

• Move Payload is a lot better but the description is incorrect now

It states:

But actually it'll pick the space (a reasonable same-relative-position placement, sure, but... it says you can pick, and you can't)

[tulip peak]

I'll have to break some hearts when it comes to the equipment since I'm diverging from Tom art and have to look at their kits and think "what's the most iconic/emblematic part of their weapons and abilities?"

[weak willow]

Prefer Raleigh w/ no hammer tbh 👍

[tulip peak]

Also some weapons are just bastards when it comes to shrinking them down to pixel sprites

I think Raleigh's hammer wouldn't have been a problem and I like it tbh but I think it might be distracting from the gunslinger motif. If you think about it from a tactics game design lens you want units to convey their silhouette and role more clearly so that's how I try to break on these things

In a perfect world I'd love to explore paper doll style weapon swapping but considering the variety of body types and weapon types I feel that'd hit a wall

I want to post up the sprites for easy editing and modding into the game though and if there's enough interest I may try to include some more faithful variants

[thin lark]

Ooh, even a couple of alternates would be fun - like how Everest already works. They're lovely sprites overall!

[young sorrel]

If this is happening then that's wrong, armor applies before resistance

[smoky glacier]

It's being halved bc it's Tactician - Flank; then Armor applies, then Resistance applies

I'd assumed outgoing halving e.g. from Flank or Hyperdense Armor applies first, before "play it by EAR"

[thin lark]

Yeah. It's being halved (Flank does half base damage), then armour, then being halved again (resistance)

The bug was that this was a second attack in the same moment, it shouldn't be getting Hunker Down resistance against the Flank overwatch

[glad lotus]

That is correct for TTRPG RAW.

So it's [(6/2)-1]/2 = 1

[burnt frigate]

I'm gonna be honest, and I don't mean this as a personal attack or anything, but this sounds like a recipe for disaster. "Radically change how the game works for the tutorial but don't mention that you're doing it" is going to lead to TONS of user feedback complaints, and rightly so

[young sorrel]

That's fair

[burnt frigate]

Someone mentioned that BG3 uses some sort of odds-slanting system to nudge things towards success but the game mentions this is in play AND allows you to disable it, and I think that if you have to do something then that seems like a good approach

Beyond anything else, a tutorial where everything auto-hits isn't actually teaching people how to play the game

like for all the memes of it, learning how to deal with missed attacks is a pretty important part of learning how to play XCOM

you can't teach people "yeah this max difficulty HMG attack will always hit" and expect them to develop a good sense of gameplay once you throw them into the post-tutorial world

[flint portal]

If I had to give it some thought, you could also "preset" results for the tutorial like some games do where it heavily constrains what you can do to teach you how it works (now try and attack this character with this weapon sort of stuff) the same way a lot of tactical games have foes move to set locations and hit you automatically to teach you about wounds and healing and whatnot or you add in maybe someone who's good at supporting rerolls to teach a player

[burnt frigate]

Yeah that's also a way you could do it if you had to, though I think it might still lead to the issue of "at low LL play, without grit or lots of ways to gain accuracy outside lock on and prone, people may feel the swinginess of the d20 harder and sometimes this means three rounds of everyone whiffing"

this has happened at times during things like new players running through a module where they go "damn this was hard" but it turns out the hardness was "nobody rolls above a 5"

[flint portal]

yeah that's fair, I think maybe giving a sort of like, reroll ressource to people starting off might be a good idea?

[burnt frigate]

I'm not inherently morally opposed to a game nudging the odds because most tactics games do something like this, xcom does, fire emblem does, etc, but I think if it does that the game should be transparent about it, and also give the option to disable it (xcom disables it if you choose the right difficulty setting for example)

[flint portal]

Or like, the same way stuff like Into the Breach does it where you get to undo an action

[stable smelt]

tbh, the modern xcoms definitely do this iirc - or are at least set up for very constrained RNG

[burnt frigate]

They do and some people aren't huge fans of it, but they also don't do "every attack in the first mission is a guaranteed hit and then it switches over to raw d20 rolls with zero explanation"

like, my issue with the specific suggestion is that it's a super dramatic change in things for the benefit of making the tutorial feel good but with zero explanation or indication in a way that when the game shifts over to actual "using the system" gameplay is going to be like whiplash

people will think the game is bugged

[stable smelt]

that's true yeah. xcom fudges the numbers extremely heavily so going from 'tutorial that goes well' to 'no that actually is a 50% chance to miss and you did six times in a row' would be harsh

[burnt frigate]

I mentioned Unfair Flips upchannel earlier, which is a game that runs on actual unaltered probability (that is, if it tells you that a thing is a 50% chance then it is a 50% chance with no tweaks on the backend) and people absolutely lose their shit over this game, insisting it must be rigged, it must be cheating, etc, and the reason for this is that people are extremely bad at understanding how probabilities work

so a big reason a lot of games tweak the odds like this is because people are actually not very good at understanding what a 65% hit chance means in the wild

a secondary reason is basically that positive outcomes move a game forward more than negative ones, and you probably don't want your gameplay to come to a meta of "simply savescum fights until the dice land in your favor"

so there are some compelling reasons to consider "karmic dice" or something, I would simply A). notify the player that this is a thing that is active in the background, and B). give them a way to turn it off if they feel strongly enough about it

[stable smelt]

and especially bad at understanding that if you miss a 25% shot three times in a row that does not mean your fourth shot will hit.

[burnt frigate]

yes exactly

Unfair Flips as a game has a win condition of "flip heads on a coin 10 times in a row"

that's it

TONS OF PEOPLE do not understand how this works

[stable smelt]

(unfair flips would actually be much more annoying if it worked on a principle like this, incidentally!)

(since you wouldn't be able to flip ten heads in a row without a very high chance of heads.)

[thin lark]

with unmodified probability, you have 0.1% chance of winning 10 flips in a row. However, that in turn means that you need to play about 1000 games to be 'expected' to win one, and if you want to be almost guaranteed to win a game, you need... about 5000 games, to have a <1% chance not to win any of them

If you provide the average game length, you can calculate how long you're expected to have to flip coins before you run into a set of 10 in a row

[teal sundial]

isn't this kind of a non-issue on account of 90% of old bessie's kit having reliable?

[thin lark]

also, 65% means it FEELS you'll probably miss. 75% feels like a 50/50 chance, 80% feels like it's more likely than not that you'll hit, and 95% only misses occasionally :)

[thin lark]

Apparently not, since people apparently struggled in the tutorial due to missing a lot.

[burnt frigate]

yeah the reason I'm bringing this up in the first place is due to the latest kickstarter update where olive talks about this

[teal sundial]

oohhh

[thin lark]

It's best to imagine a worst case, because they'll happen to some people if enough people play it

What would the tutorial feel like if you literally could not roll higher than a 5?

[burnt frigate]

    the d20 system has a crazy amount of variance. Some folks cleaned up the starting enemies in one turn while others struggled through no fault of their own for like eight turns before dying. We’re not currently cheating rolls in the tutorial but this makes me want to start — we’re otherwise statistically guaranteeing some percentage of players are going to just have a super depressing introduction to the game.```

This led to me asking how other ostensibly d20-related CRPGs (D&D, Pathfinder) handle the matter of odds tweaking

also it raises the question, would this only be for the tutorial then, or the whole of the game?

[torpid orbit]

does anyone have any advice on how to make it though LL0-LL1 combats without losing anyone?

I am fighting the asset management team and they keep bum rushing me with their elite assaults and sentinels, locking down the payload while their snipers and priests kill me

[weak willow]

Tune down reinforcements and spawn rate

The way a normal GM would

[torpid orbit]

the thing is, that kinda goes against the spirit of the run I am trying to do. I am trying to do a Nuzlocke challenge. so pilot death is permadeath, but tunning down the reinforcements feels like cheating

[weak willow]

I mean I don't think the encounter balances are necessarily built according to the rule book

[proud dirge]

what do you have reinforcments at now? 1 or 1.5?

[weak willow]

There's nothing official about Boulder squadron

[proud dirge]

id keep it at 1 for the first few LLs

[torpid orbit]

I did a test at LL1, for an escort mission in the docs map. On the screen it says x2, but when I go to click on modifiers it says x1.0 reinforcements. But when I did a practice test I got 2 assaults 3 grunts, 1 sentinel, and 1 priest

what is that? x1 or x2?

[weak willow]

What mission type? Sometimes the activation cap is higher for certain kinds

[torpid orbit]

escort on docks

[flint portal]

i'm like 90% convinced this is also why a lot of games don't directly tell you the odds with a thing happening

[weak willow]

Docks is also a deceptively hard map

Not much hard cover, surrounded by spawns

Same reason city center or whatever is a slaughterhouse

[torpid orbit]

yeah. you spend the first turn getting into position, then the enemy moves once and begins to mow you down. and its an escort sitrep

[young sorrel]

Just a wording thing, this kind of implies that it's the tech attack that gains accuracy and irreducible, so maybe it should be "a melee attack following a tech attack"

Also, The Lesson of Shaping isn't here

[young sorrel]

Escort sitreps by default have 2 times the reinforcements of "standard" sitreps, so I'm guessing x1 means "the default number of reinforcement for this sitrep"

More text stuff, I think the description of Bonded should be updated to clarify how it actually works in Lancer Tactics (so, only another PC squadmate)

[thin lark]

I don't think that's true, I think at default settings they are, in fact, allowable under book rules. Mean, but allowable :)

[latent sandal]

im getting a detecting from my anti-virus when downloading from the itch page when getting the windows ver.

the linux ver. seems to download fine for whatever reason

[young sorrel]

I'm pretty sure the Berserker Chain Axe doesn't shred on crit in Lancer Tactics, though that might be intentional?

[latent sandal]

is there some sort of FAQ

for this kinda stuff

[viscid harness]

@young sorrel thx for the callout -didn't realize it got updated 🙂

[young sorrel]

It's already in a very good state

[weak willow]

same for me, just checked

no blocks except vehicles (pog) and large acacia trees, along with some grass and rock doodads

[brisk snow]

oh did stable structure get added?

[thin lark]

Thanks. That sounds like a pretty major bug then

[thin lark]

The linux version is out of date :)

[brisk snow]

Bug report: dusk wing with active hall of mirrors made an entire line of holograms when I had it auto move to eject power cores range

[weak willow]

Diluvian Ark is permanently activated if you use it once in a mission

your Saladin will never move again but becomes a fortress

lowkey made a Holdout mission go excellent

Enclave shield might have the same issue

both were active every turn once i used them and i could not longer move

[glad lotus]

Re: d20 swing, it's something I've been becoming less of a fan of as I get older. I think designs like Icon and (I think) Draw Steel are probably a lot better experiences, where your attack always does something, usually just less damage on a miss. At the least, they would be more consistent experiences.

So you still get that reward from successful attacks, but failed attacks still let you make progress in the game.

It's fail forward, but for combat mechanics.

Anyway, not really relevant to LT unless olive wants to completely rebalance the game, so I'll stop. 😆

[burnt frigate]

I don't entirely disagree, though I think lancer sort of addresses it along multiple axes, which include Reliable damage on certain weapons, attack actions enabling multiple attack rolls at a time via mount loadouts, multiple actions baseline, and overcharge

basically Lancer's approach to the d20 variance issue is "you can, if you want, make like 4-6 attack rolls in a given turn"

rather than something like 4E D&D's "you get one Standard action which will often be your attack which will often be one singular attack roll, better hope you hit"

That said, it's still very possible for groups, especially in the early levels, to get hit by the bad dice luck bug, which many people can personally attest to

[proud dirge]

oh yeah its happened

i ran a session of lancer where the players rolled so bad they decided they didnt like lancer

[weak willow]

i agree with this entirely- the option to reduce impact of D20's is extremely present in player options. Tlaloc, Sisyphus, a multitude of options exist to get consistent work out of your dice

[burnt frigate]

Tlaloc and Sisyphus don't come online until later and are entirely optional systems competing for other extremely valuable system slots

the issue noted by olive specifically pertains to the tutorial of the game, which I assume isn't going to be involving LL3+ mech builds

It's possible she may be considering things beyond that tutorial/early level element, if so I'm not sure

[brisk snow]

I just overcharge until either I explode or the guy I'm beating to death explodes

[burnt frigate]

like, speaking as the person who made Solstice Rain, I am pretty well aware that at LL0-1 a lot of lancer groups can run into issues with dice variance that you can't really address by going "well just make a six hand cannon Raleigh" or "just invest in a bunch of reroll tech"

[stable smelt]

the biggest 'missing piece' here is there aren't any GMS heavy weapons that are also reliable, resulting in the common yet predictable result of 'ooh! I fire my howitzer! I... roll badly and miss all my attacks! I... have to spend a turn reloading?' and there's the first two turns gone like that.

[stable smelt]

(or to be specific, missing piece at LL0/LL1. it is a common trap option that new players will fall directly into. also stuff like AMR death's head at LL2.)

[alpine sorrel]

Dipping into this after taking a day off -- we really need to get our own discord set up hot damn. A lotta threads.

[little juniper]

I'm so stoked! Just heard NHPs got portraits, and also Sal got added.

[alpine sorrel]

This is a wild bug because you're only seeing setpieces that we've specifically marked as not visible in the public build. Like it's just loading that specific bool backwards.

[alpine sorrel]

If you have a suggestion for a better Isk tagline, I'm all ears. I really struggled with that one

[golden rover]

https://tenor.com/view/bomberman-bomberman-online-dream-cast-ボンバーマン-ボンバーマンオンラインドリームキャスト-gif-26413989

[alpine sorrel]

We likely have them in the backlog still, so as a general rule assume we have it on the books somewhere and just didn't get to it.

[weak willow]

https://tenor.com/view/seagull-pixar-seagulls-ocean-gif-996698667031947568

[alpine sorrel]

Nailed it

[teal flame]

"gravitic minelayer" also works

because it does also get a decent chunk of gravity manipulation stuff

[weak willow]

i like that

"Eenie Meenie Mine-y Moe"

nah

[young sorrel]

"Terrain dominator"

Or alternatively, "Super good at everything"

[torpid orbit]

"Whats yours is Mine, and what's Mine is Mine and Mine and Mine...

[young sorrel]

It was at this moment that the Bombard knew he was out of position
He had just deployed and the opfor was across the map
He was out of position

[young sorrel]

You spin me right round baby right round

[young sorrel]

Decided to try a LL0 run with semi-theme builds and i did manage to make it to 3 wins.

...Barely

[thin lark]

Your elephant is leaking.

[young sorrel]

Turns out the guardians are a lot scarier when they use weapons other than easily-parriable laser blasts

But after playing LL0, 3, 6, 9, and 12, I can confidently say that LL0 is the hardest by far

[thin lark]

Even LL1 makes a big difference

[little juniper]

hey, wanted to say like, I have a dumb kinda...very fiddly thing to say

type-3 projected shield says it applies to characters, not to enemies, but can only apply to enemies

[young sorrel]

Ahh, yeah you should be able to use it on allies

The classic "protocol take 1 heat"

[small panther]

It is also a valid tactic when rocking a lot of aoes and melee strikers, too

[lethal leaf]

Also when there's a witch.

[weak willow]

Is the lesson of shaping not vanilla Lancer? I see it on so many of the custom werks builds

[tidal tulip]

lesson of shaping is corebook material

[young sorrel]

I'm guessing though that with AIs getting a custom sedinc portrait there'd need to be more work done to make a mech with two AIs

Though you can use Technophile 3 plus another AI already so who knows

[torpid orbit]

are all mechs able to be colored and use custom paint schemes?

[young sorrel]

Not yet, but most of them are

3d model = editable
2d sprite = not editable

[alpine sorrel]

I just somehow missed adding lesson of shaping to the actual ring picker 😅 it's somewhere in the code though I promise

[lethal leaf]

3D model = edible
2D sprite= not edible

[alpine sorrel]

Only the ones that Gen has implemented are — if the pixels look chunky then they're still placeholder

[young sorrel]

RIP stool payloard, we'll miss you

[alpine sorrel]

(easter egg: I think it's still in-game as an available alternate sprite for the minotaur)

[young sorrel]

I'm guessing you plan to just have your first NHP be portraited? That seems like it would make the most sense

[alpine sorrel]

Yep

[young sorrel]

One thing I think would be cool for the pilot voicelines is ti have a "use NHP" line that plays when you activate your NHP, and uses their portrait

Would also be a cool way to show lore about the NHPs, have their (default) lines be determined by what NHP they are

[alpine sorrel]

I also want to add an entire extra set of barks for NHPs that can play instead of the pilot's

[young sorrel]

Ooh, that sounds fun

[torpid orbit]

the payload really needs to be less finniky

I braced and even though I boosted with this character it wouldnt let me. Maybe it got stuck on a piece of terrain or something, idk

[young sorrel]

That's actually intended, brace locks out your standard move and payloads can only be moved with standard move

[torpid orbit]

that's...dumb as hell

[cedar hill]

Keeps the objective from being cheesable

[alpine sorrel]

I'm actually surprised to hear that, the limitation I implemented is closer to "it can only be moved up to your speed per turn".

[young sorrel]

RAW you have to start your standard move adjacent to it but I'm glad that's gone

[alpine sorrel]

Oh I bet because bracing locks you out of free actions

I'm open to carving out an exception for payload movement being available after bracing.

[young sorrel]

I think that's fair. Escort is one of the hardest sitreps already and some teams just aren't equipped to deal with it

(I find it devolves into team death match pretty often if you don't have a dedicated escort build)

[torpid orbit]

also depending on the roll of the dice you can get stuck in with the enemy npcs forever, kill them all, and then have no time left for the objective, which as far as ways to lose the mission are...fair and understandeable, but frustrating

[thin lark]

I am hoping when the module editor exists we might be able to have less binary victory conditions - like losing a victory point, or going negative, every turn over max.

Or getting something for later missions with optional side objectives

[young sorrel]

That's what a lot of the other sitreps do, like control

So hopefully once we get the other sitreps there'll be less payload moving

[torpid orbit]

how do I update? Do I just redownload the exe? is there a button I can push or something?

[young sorrel]

Just redownload

[alpine sorrel]

Getting the itch.io app will let you just press a button to update with a patch

[young sorrel]

Huh, didn't know that

[boreal dust]

i think it has been said before that if/when steam release the itch price will increase to match, has it been determined how much that will be?

[flint portal]

Tbh that feels more like how it should work if you ask me

There's objectives and if you spend time not playing them to do them, you shouldn't win because you treated it like a different sitrep

imo

[young sorrel]

I agree in general, but it does feel pretty bad to get caught in the hornets at LL0 and have them constantly recharge Impale Systems and dodge everything

Need a smart weapon on at least one players and preferably also Turret Drones

[flint portal]

I think part of that is also learning the system, I wouldn't say the fix to this is to make characters win if they kill every npc for sitreps that aren't about that (since it just turns every sitrep into a damage race which a lot already end up being)

and more so on giving out info

[young sorrel]

You're certainly correct, though I think the real answer is to have opfors that are custom built for a specific LL instead of using the same one for an entire tier

Which is to say, LT might not be balanced that well for LL0, but that's not an inherent thing with Lancer

[flint portal]

I dunno at ll0 you do have solutions for hornets is more where i disagree, for a lot of npcs even

You just need to know/be told what they are (if a player can’t figure it out)

[young sorrel]

You do, assuming you go into a mission knowing that hornets are coming

If you're arguing that every team should have a plan for hornets, I think that's true, but maybe a bit too much for LL0 where players are still learning the game

Either way, I don't think we should read too many balance implications from Lancer Tactics instant action

[flint portal]

I also feel like the Hornet's presence is maybe more felt because of the rest of the npcs not being in yet, but my perspective is also from having worked for first party modules which do use hornets in their first combats (namely, shadow of the wolf) which goes by fine for a lot of people

The moment you tell people hornets are easy to invade, weak to reliable and can be easily hit by smart weapons, they can easily be taken care of

[young sorrel]

I don't disagree, for context the person who said this is doing a challenge where they play with community-submitted builds, and nobody coordinated with their submissions at all or had any idea what the others were playing. So it so happened that the entire party didn't have anything for hornets.

[flint portal]

oh well, you live and learn, I think its also a little bit more understandable to have bases covered in this game since you can more or less control what each team member is bringing, for the record I think the first module has a preset team with bases covered

[young sorrel]

There's definitely ways to beat hornets at LL0, but you're not gonna beat them when you have two Howitzer builds and no smart weapons xD

Meanwhile I've been doing some testing at LL12 and the preset enemies just do not have the tools to handle LL12 PCs, I'm up to 10 wins without a full repair on my first attempt

[weak willow]

Huge W

[young sorrel]

...oh my gosh it's true

[weak willow]

Sometimes that is low-key the best chance certain teams have at winning

[young sorrel]

Rate the voicelines for my Minotaur build. Callsign "Payload", mech name "Bring Payload here!"

[burnt frigate]

just gonna second this, yeah

As a module writer, I have heard a lot of "we got so caught up in fighting that we forgot about the objective and had to haul ass/nearly lost/did lose" and my response to this is basically "yeah that'll happen, play the objective next time"

[young sorrel]

Bug Report: Flank can proc even if the triggering attack killed the target, and is thus now not a character

[burnt frigate]

if the game needs a tooltip to that effect to remind people "the objective matters, kills don't" then sure, go for it, but "I lost the objective because I spent too much time engaging with NPCs" is quite literally how Lancer the Game works with regards to sitreps

like it's true, the opfor's intent is to keep you from doing that, this is what a well-designed opfor in a mission will be for

[young sorrel]

IIRC there literally is a tooltip that says that

[burnt frigate]

sounds like that base is covered then

If the dilemma is, specifically, "what if the opfor throws [NPC] at players and they have no tools to deal with it?" I am also kind of unsympathetic in the sense that, again, this is sort of how Lancer rolls, if you don't bring anti-invis tech then the Specters of the world will have a fun time. That said, this is the sort of thing that a pre-mission briefing prior to doing loadout/equipping for a mission COULD be implemented for if that seems like something the team would consider an important element

[weak willow]

S tier

[burnt frigate]

all hostile targets. Expect strong resistance while
operating within enemy territory. Local Vestan
defense patrols are noted to be highly mobile
and aggressive; counter-mobility and anti-armor
capabilities are strongly advised. (Loadout sug-
gestions include AP damage capabilities as well
as weapons or abilities that inflict conditions like
Shredded and Slowed).```

This is an example taken from a pre-mission briefing from Winter Scar

It doesn't straight up tell you "yeah you're gonna fight Berserkers, Rapid Response Sentinels, and an MBT," but it does give players some suggestions for what they might want to bring with them in the mission, which they can abide by or ignore at their discretion

[young sorrel]

IMO, the frustration being had was about an opfor that wasn't designed for LL0 play, not any particular enemy in that opfor

[burnt frigate]

I suppose I'm not entirely clear what "not designed for LL0 play" means, because NPCs aren't level gated

Hornets aren't a "don't use at LL0" enemy

[young sorrel]

It's not quality, it's quantity. This is IMO too many enemies to fight at LL0 (all at once on the first turn), especially since the assaults have not once per round Hunker Down

(for clarity, 1 elite assault, 1 normal one, 1 priest, 1 sentinel, 2 grunt snipers, 2 hornets, 1 grunt ace)

[burnt frigate]

Maybe, though I'd say that also depends on how many PC mechs are going up against it

[young sorrel]

4

[burnt frigate]

I know Shadow of the Wolf has elicited some raised eyebrows for starting off its combats with things like double elites etc

[elfin peak]

So far my group has flattened the first couple combats of shadow of the wolf, really helps to have a chomolungna scan the enemies and then you focus their weaknesses

[young sorrel]

And again, also doesn't help that the assaults recharge their hunker down on each of their turns and can use it before their turn starts and also use it again later (so an elite assault can hunker down three times on the first round)

That's not how assaults normally work

[elfin peak]

LT assaults do feel a bit absurdly hard to damage

[alpine sorrel]

Yea I have a "I got the rules wrong" todo list and that's on it

[young sorrel]

There's a reason I run a paracausal mod build on every squad, it's because the enemies in Lancer Tactics happen to have a hugely above average number of resistance traits

[alpine sorrel]

Oh yeah that does look like something went wrong in the activation cap spawn function

Too many guys

[young sorrel]

This is an escort mission to be clear, and IIRC those are 2x budget

but escort missions are absolutely brutal in LT

[latent sandal]

May I ask what’s going on with the windows firewall stuff on the new LT version

Keeps flagging the download and all

[elfin peak]

That's just Horus, ignore it.

[young sorrel]

I think the bigger issue is that the enemies deploy too close, while some deploy further back the majority of the opfor can reach and engage the players in one round

[alpine sorrel]

Microsoft is going the route of apple and tightening the screws on running applications that haven't been explicitly whitelisted by them, which costs money and time to get in the queue for. I believe the itch.io app circumnavigates it just like steam does

[burnt frigate]

Taking it in mind that olive has said something might be wrong with the unit cap there, 2x budget for 4 PCs is going to be 3x-4x the number of PCs in structure/activations assuming she's going by the guidelines everyone seems to use

[stable smelt]

besides the 'this is 2x budget' thing, that's five strikers/artillery

[burnt frigate]

I don't know if Lancer Tactics is using different evaluations for opfor budgeting

[alpine sorrel]

There's a separate NPC activation cap running separately to try and prevent NPC flooding even with large pools

[young sorrel]

I mean right now it's using proof of concept opfors for proof of concepting, I'm pretty certain

[latent sandal]

That’s stupid and cringe. Capitalism at its finest lol

Ty olive it’s giving me peace of mind

[alpine sorrel]

So even if a RAW sitrep says "deploy the rest of the opfor", it's not going to deploy ten guys in reserve if there's already five on the field.

[burnt frigate]

This is also a good point, idk if Tactics has a "opfor cap" on striker/artillery units

[young sorrel]

...funny enough, I've been trying to force it to, because I want to see just how many enemies I can chew through with the siege cannon

[alpine sorrel]

Nope, doesn't look at the role of who it's deploying. That's the opfor maker's job

[burnt frigate]

gotcha

[alpine sorrel]

There's a little balancing graph on that modal to help

[young sorrel]

Meanwhile, the hardest opfor IMO is this one, 5 berserkers, Mirage, Archer, elite bombard with earthshaker shells

Better hope you can handle berserkers and stay spread out

[stable smelt]

that is pretty brutal.

tip: friendly fire triggers Aggression.

[young sorrel]

Yup, and I run a dedicated Paracausal Mod AOE artillery build along with an Impaler Nailgun hacker specifically for this comp because if you can't stop them this opfor will eat you for breakfast

[burnt frigate]

yeah that seems like a pretty quintessential "all strikers turns the game into rocket tag damage racing" comp

[latent sandal]

I should start fielding this sitrep when my players get too confident

[burnt frigate]

it will, in fact, lead to everyone just doing paracausal HMG everest stuff or the equivalent

[latent sandal]

Hacktuga VG nailgun presumably?

[young sorrel]

Yup

Was also trying out Balor with a similar build

[latent sandal]

Balor and Monarch are my default picks most of the time

Access to Gandiva/TLaloc/Nanocomp on top of the sustain and durability the frames provide is pretty baller

[young sorrel]

For reference, here's the third and IMO most balanced/interesting opfor, Demolisher, grunt mirage, 3 grunt berserker, 2 RPV hornet, bombard, elite witch

This one is basically "have your strongest striker go first and double structure the witch on turn 1 and you're fine, otherwise you're in deep trouble"

[weak willow]

I don't find that anything on Boulder squadron is that threatening aside from the witch and bombard

The demolishers don't even reach the fight before it's over

[thin lark]

I really should try and make a defensive focussed OpFor full of Sentinels and Archers and see how it feels

Random Veteran Elites, one of every type, is surprisingly fun.

[weak willow]

That's cool, seems like it'd give the same feeling of "Enemy Ace Squadron"

[thin lark]

Since the activation cap cuts them down to around 3-4 at a time they feel far less overwhelming but they are so hard to properly take out and then another one pops up when you do

Yeah. It’s a fun different time of it.

I hope we eventually get Ultras and all their toys

[weak willow]

I am hype for Cataphracts

[thin lark]

I want to see what the AI does when given a half dozen grunt barricades

[burnt frigate]

These are all CRB NPCs too, yeah?

I'm interested to see if the rebake implementations shift things noticeably

[young sorrel]

Sorry, CRB?

Oh, combat rebuild

no they're not

That's a "will get to it at some point", IIRC, the enemies currently are the base versions from the base book

[burnt frigate]

Core Rulebook

[young sorrel]

Oh... well in that case that's what they are

[burnt frigate]

That is, these are NPCs as taken straight from Lancer with only minimal changes

[young sorrel]

Yes

[burnt frigate]

Yeah, I think some of the rebake stuff will make a difference in a few ways: some NPCs no longer have resistance traits, ambient accuracy levels are toned down, etc

[young sorrel]

👍

[brisk snow]

found a new bug. If a witch uses predatory logic on a unit and they would fire at someone either mounted on someone else or vice versa, it lets you choose who they would fire at or just cancel the shot. Also can't shoot my smart gun or dismount from the mule harness for some reason. Maybe that's because of slowed?

[thin lark]

I wonder how good a bonded pair Raleigh uncle-AMR cold loop sniper and swallowtail spotter are. Not sure if BFE can be useful in that configuration though.

Perhaps if we also somehow get a loading drone involved…

Bleh, uncle blocks the weapon until the start of next turn…

[brisk snow]

BFE? Also the AMR has the ordnance tag so you wouldn't be able to shoot it again anyway

except as reaction I guess

[thin lark]

Bentham Focault Elimination - the action spotter 3 lets you take when you lock on which effectively lets you fire an ally’s gun for them off-turn

[brisk snow]

oh ok

I forgor

you could go raleigh 2 barbarossa 2 for autoloader and do it that way

[smoky glacier]

yeah if you're tryina use BFE and UNCLE those are essentially exclusive

[thin lark]

It’s hard to use well in my opinion, but in Lancer Tactics where you control the entire squad at once could be much better

[smoky glacier]

could do smth like a non-UNCLE AMR and an UNCLE'd Main weapon as a treat

[brisk snow]

fire on your turn, reload with autoloader drone, ally locks on, uses BFE to let you shoot again?

[cedar hill]

It requires teamwork but if you've got that it's a fucking strong talent

[brisk snow]

then I guess you have an awkward off turn where you reload as a quick and shoot something else

[cedar hill]

You're basically doubling a teammates heavy mount output

[smoky glacier]

honestly i'm just picturing a Raleigh that's always taking FMJ turns

[thin lark]

Yeah, that would work pretty well…

[smoky glacier]

it never fires its Heavy on-turn, so it always reloads

[thin lark]

Huh… what if, a PAIR of Raleigh’s

[smoky glacier]

you're "only" getting 1 Loading Heavy shot per round that way, but you've basically made yourself into a no-cost autoloader+Heavy mount for your Spotter

[brisk snow]

ok so... maybe raleigh 2, pegasus 3 for autoguns, dealers choice on last license? fire the autoguns at end of turn after FMJ

[thin lark]

That fire each other’s-

[brisk snow]

er, does raleigh have flex flex heavy or dual aux flex heavy

[smoky glacier]

Aux/aux flex heavy

[brisk snow]

ok maybe big irons, autugun, amr?

[smoky glacier]

you'd have to go for Mount Retrofitting CB if you want two Mains

[brisk snow]

spend your turn pointing with hunter's mark?

and lock on or something

hang on I'm talking out of my ass, let me pull up compcon at least

[smoky glacier]

if you're doin Raleigh Brothers you both spend your turn doing Lock On + BFE

[thin lark]

Two Raleigh’s, each with spotter 3 and bonded.

The turn is lock on, BFE to let the other Raleigh fire as a reaction, and then get a free lock and reload and auto gun

[brisk snow]

Just Two Brothers

[thin lark]

And mjolnir :)

That’s actually pretty lethal, just stand there and annihilate anything within range. Sadly limited by sensor range

[lethal leaf]

You know what you do as well? You use Integrated Weapon.

You reload, fire Mjolnir, fire Integrated Hand Cannon or Missile Rack with Roland.

Then Autogun.

[proud dirge]

is bentham/foucault supposed to trigger on held image reaction? cause it has been for me

oh wait i already reported this

[brisk snow]

I managed to replicate the hall of mirrors bug again. I think the way to trigger this is to have two actions queued up simultaneously. Here I activated hall of mirrors, then clicked where the duskwing is in the screenshot, so it asked to boost, and after I clicked yes, it did this

https://tenor.com/view/killua-gif-9351923

[weak willow]

bro out there fightin demons

[heady iris]

GODO
time to run tests with all mechs on level 3 and explore all systems

[heady iris]

I'd love to be in it

[heady iris]

Ah wonderful move window 11

It flagged the whole zip as troyan and tossed it in the windows defender bin

That's rude, i bought that game

Dw i smacked windows defender already

Damn love we got a cycling button for NHPs now

Still waiting for my cat ears Sekhmet olive

[torpid orbit]

how do I redownload the game without destroying any of my saved pilots and other data?

[teal flame]

pilots are saved in a separate folder

[young sorrel]

Bit of a more personal question for Olive, as someone who's also working on a big programming project: How do you stay motivated? How do you tell yourself that today, you'll work on Lancer Tactics?

[young sorrel]

Bug(?) Report: By the Way, I know Everything is not optional in Lancer Tactics, and I think it definitely should be, there are absolutely cases where you want to roll damage, for example when you crit you're likely to deal more than average damage by rolling

You could have it deal the average crit damage, but that's a hideously complicated thing to calculate, because crit damage does not scale linearly based on the number of dice, a 4d6 crit is more than double a 2d6 crit

[thin lark]

It’s not that complicated for computers to calculate I don’t think. Anydice certainly manages to compute it, and for small dice numbers like these I suspect it would be fine

[torpid orbit]

I crashed

I was trying to start a holdout mission on the mine map

I dont have a save or anything to send, do I?

[lethal leaf]

Also, a Pegasus with a Combat Drill definitely shouldn't deal average damage against a qualifying target.

[heady iris]

Olive deemed it would get too complicated to have a prompt appear each time a pegasus deals damage
so they made it non optional and always active

[young sorrel]

But that means the Pegasus gets no benefits from Critical hits

[brisk snow]

Maybe it could be like a toggle? Like activating lunge or throwing an aux melee

Or IKWMH

Something you select when shooting

[young sorrel]

It would be kind of annoying if it popped up on every time you dealt damage (almost all the other conditional attack modifiers are, well, conditional), but i think it'd make sense to give you the option on crit specifically

[brisk snow]

It’s not a prompt to use lunge or whatever though, it’s like choosing to use walking armory charges

Idk does that make sense

I don’t remember if it’s something you choose on hit or on attack normally

Oh it’s whenever it would roll damage

Hm.

Idk if this would be too complicated but maybe it could be the toggle and it could ask when you crit regardless of the toggle? It’s over complicating it a bit though :/

[flint portal]

I mean it would have to do this anyway even if this was a toggle

hypothetically if someone crits and uses BTWIKE if its a toggle, the game would have to calculate that

[young sorrel]

True, I was thinking of just having it never do it but then realized there are some cases where you wouldn't want to roll on a crit, like if you were worried about stressing from Overkill

[flint portal]

unless you're saying it should never be in effect for crits

I think it makes more sense for it to always be on tbh

[young sorrel]

I think that'd make the Pegasus significantly worse, but idk, it's probably not a huge deal.

Maybe it could do max damage on a crit guaranteed. Would that be too good?

[brisk snow]

Yes

Brutal 1 is kinda lame but free brutal 1 seems slightly too much

[flint portal]

That's way more damage than how other crits work on like, most other frames

[brisk snow]

I think if it wouldn’t be annoying to implement, it being a toggle on attack would probably be the easiest way to give you the choice without slowing down combat too much to allow for edge cases like combat drill. If it is annoying to implement then I think the current implementation is fine

[flint portal]

The main thing is that the choice of it being constant has been a decision Olive made a bit back and i'd assume that's because it was probably more of a pain to implement it as a thing you toggle or check every attack

[brisk snow]

Then yeah I defer to Olive

As long as I can click on a hornet with the smart accurate final draft prototype and it explodes in one hit every time it’s all gucci

[flint portal]

Trying to find where she mentioned that but it might have been in either the kickstarter updates or off server

[brisk snow]

I’ll take your word for it, you don’t have to go out of your way if it’s just for me

It sounds in line with what I’ve seen so far

[hollow oracle]

if you crit on 1d6, that's about 4.5 dmg average, max dmg is 6, so that's a +1.5 difference, which I'd say is significant. This difference only grows as you add more dice

[young sorrel]

Though you're a Pegasus, so your normal 1d6 is doing 4 instead of 3.5, making it less of an increase than for other frames

Still probably too good

And actually the difference goes down as you add more dice, rolling 4d6 and picking the best 2 is more likely to get a roll closer to max damage anyways

[brisk snow]

Unrelatedly, I kind of thought striker duskwing was kind of a meme build but it’s actually kinda good? Maybe

[hollow oracle]

not sure why, but anydice says otherwise. Probably because the benefit of max stacks faster than the benefit of critting

[young sorrel]

There's no way that's true

[hollow oracle]

I dunno, anydice's never done me wrong before ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[alpine sorrel]

i'm broken in a useful way

[young sorrel]

I see. I'm broken in a not useful way, so I suppose I have something to strive towards.

[final mesa]

Ah yes, that feeling of having a weird brain defect that mostly solves for issues we already solved with technology and innovation.

[wraith cradle]

Reviving an old topic. One mechanic that I enjoy from pathfinder 2e is the hero dice. Basically, as a reward for good roleplaying your GM can give you points that let you reroll a d20 that only lasts for the session. I've found that it does a decent job of rounding out bad roll streaks. I think you could potentially reframe it as a "Reserve die" or something. Though, the downside of this is that it'd probably require frontend graphics to go with it.

I figure this would probably work best if there are already plans to implement reserves as a major mechanic in the campaign mode.

[lilac anchor]

Checking in after a while, have I missed any new updates? Harrison out yet?

[young sorrel]

Yes!

Bug Report: Hitting a Berserker with Omnigun will not triggers its aggression

[lilac anchor]

oh shit harrison is out! I gotta update when I get home then thank you

[young sorrel]

Enjoy Paracausal Mod Saladin, Displacer Napoleon, and Iskander

[lilac anchor]

yaaaaaaay

[brisk snow]

Just tried paracausal daisy cutter earlier against a bunch of berserkers. It’s sooooooooo satisfying watching stampede armor do nothing

https://tenor.com/view/baby-yoda-the-mandalorian-haha-yes-yeah-gif-16042124

[lilac anchor]

oh that wounds...

[young sorrel]

Mhm, I think Paracausal Mod is extremely good for specifically beating the Lancer Tactics opfors

[lilac anchor]

beautiful

[young sorrel]

You wanna see something even more satisfying?

[brisk snow]

Before trying lancer tactics I didn’t realize how prevalent resistance was

[lilac anchor]

I feel that may be due to the selection of NPCs we have currently

I think once more of them arrive we'll need new strats

[young sorrel]

For sure, but for right now, you need a way to deal with Berserkers: The opfor

[brisk snow]

I guess you can fragsys them but then you’re still having to use one action per berserker just to shut off stampede armor

[lilac anchor]

I hate them so much

[worn tiger]

That and 1/round reactions (like hunker down) working incorrectly in a way that allows them to get used more than they should

[lilac anchor]

Berserkers make me want to blow up Creighton again

[young sorrel]

Also, uh... siege mode siege cannon is not supposed to have knockback 2, and especially not knockback 2 that's based on the player and not the center of the blast

It's incredibly easy to send things like Berserkers careening into their friends because of this

[brisk snow]

If you hate berserkers may I present to you the humble Minotaur with interdiction field?

Jk

[young sorrel]

I've tried that, and also interdiction field Vlad, but neither of those stop the berserkers from just walking up and killing you

[brisk snow]

Hm.

Smite?

Idk I’m kinda still on “dedicated hacker” as the solution

[young sorrel]

Smite would work, but when Fragment Signal would also work

That doesn't change the fact that you need to spend a quick action and hit with the invade for one berserker

and most dedicated hackers can't deal 16 damage to a 1 armor enemy in one turn

[worn tiger]

Yeah that's why you bring friends.

Hacker clears Stampede Defense off multiple targets, then strikers clean them up.

[brisk snow]

Yeah I don’t think there’s a mech that’s going to be able to do everything by itself

[lilac anchor]

The Formidable Tortuga:

[brisk snow]

As in “do the work of 4 lancers with one turn”

[lilac anchor]

ah

The Squad of four Tortugas:
/j

[brisk snow]

It’d probably work until you need to escort a payload or something

[young sorrel]

The problem is, as soon as the berserkers take their actions, the effect ends. Now Fragsig is helpful in general for impeding a berserker's turn, but if you're specifically using it to turn off stampede defense, you kind of do need to be able to use it that turn, especially since you always want to be targeting enemies that haven't taken their turn yet if possible

...Have I messed up my settings somewhere, or did the new patch remove all the map editor options?

[thin lark]

It's a known bug, myself and someone else have confirmed it. Sadly, I think we may just have to wait, or use the previous patch to make maps. At least they load in the new one

[young sorrel]

[thin lark]

Indeed. We have all the player mechs now, but [thanos but what did it cost meme]

Still, hopefully next month should be pretty neat!

[final mesa]

Shred very nicely turns off Stampede Defense.

[brisk snow]

Vlad stays winning by both shredding and immobilizing

[gusty agate]

Visual Bug: Vlad core power description is not appearing. (however it works fine in game)

[stoic bloom]

noticed i couldn't turn the map as well asfter the update

[stoic bloom]

also

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1292608879309361283/1427386162896441454/Lancer_tactics_raleigh_colour_bug.gif

this weird colour changing error

[brisk snow]

are you supposed to be unable to use RSU after bracing?

[stable smelt]

you should be able to, so if you can't it's a bug

[brisk snow]

then yeah I think RSU might be bugged

Bug: Can't use RSU after bracing

oh another thing for the hall of mirrors bug, it also triggers when you're moving a payload

[brisk snow]

Bug: Lightning Generator triggers but doesn't actually damage anything or do the animation if you're in the danger zone after coming out of the lesson of transubstantiation. It shows the auto trigger popup though

not sure if it's also because of bracing? but it did the auto activation so...

[alpine sorrel]

🙏🙏 thank you for all the bugs, I will treasure them

🪲

[brisk snow]

Whatever helps!

[weak willow]

Yeah I've been having that issue too. Thankfully, it saves whatever you actually click, but the next time you open up the color picker, it will have saved whatever you last moused over

[young sorrel]

Continuing to practice LL0 with my premade squad (changed up their equipment a bit), and managed a win on a gauntlet only taking one structure

[young sorrel]

...and then immediately lost to an escort. Geez the escorts are brutal

[young sorrel]

POV: You roll one(1) Overkill d6

[heady iris]

I found a bug in the pilot custom setting

Specifically for the mech color selection
Seems it selects colors when my mouse hovers over them rather than me having to click to select them
And if i exit the window and open it up again, it shows the last hovered colors as selected rather than the ones i clicked

-# funny that i found about this while making a goblin build to use as a bug finder

We could really use a LT server with a bug channel to have them all neatly stored in one place

[young sorrel]

Yeah, I've noticed weirdness with the mech colours too

[heady iris]

You should be able to use mount retrofitting on a improved armament flex mount right?

Because in game when i press the mount retrofitting button on the flex mount created by improvement armament, it doesn't change into a main/aux

[young sorrel]

Huh, yes you should

[heady iris]

-# love the fact that i have yet to put this bug finding goblin build in action and it's already finding bugs

[heady iris]

Noticed another bug, this time in the pilot avatar customization

Apparently the cavalier helmet hat messes up with the body size selection

When the helmet is on and i go in the body size tab, i can press on the first option that doesn't present the helmet and the hat unequips

[brisk snow]

Is the arc projector supposed to be able to target stuff like destroyed mechs?

Right now you can target them but you can’t use them to arc to the next target, and it won’t do damage. At least, if you shot an enemy first anyway. I haven’t tested starting with the wrecks to arc into an enemy

[lilac anchor]

I think so. At least because Ultras can feign death so you never know

[brisk snow]

It’d be a neat way to extend the range of the arc projector tbh

[weak willow]

They. Can. WHAT.

No lie though that's cinematic as hell

[lilac anchor]

Ultras can get the feign death

[young sorrel]

It's an ultra optional, ye

[lilac anchor]

when they die

they come back at 1hp and look just like a wreck

[young sorrel]

I can't wait for the NPC class and template implementation tier list

[small panther]

It's actually a Veteran trait but yeah

[alpine sorrel]

I can already tell you that mirage is gonna be sitting near the bottom of it

[young sorrel]

I'm kind of surprised by that, given that it's one of the NPCs that's already implemented

What's so problematic about it?

[lilac anchor]

its evil and sinister

and size 1/2

[young sorrel]

Oh for sure, but I'm talking ease of implementation here

[weak willow]

Little punks blipping people all over the moment I start moving

I still loathe bombards with more of my heart and soul though

Kill it with fire

[lilac anchor]

for me, a dedicated striker fan, its berserkers

[young sorrel]

I also think Mirages are a lot easier in LT than in normal Lancer because it seems like they always transfer their dataveil on the first turn if an ally is in range

[lilac anchor]

and witches and priests

[young sorrel]

So you can kill a non-invisible character to get rid of the invisibility

[alpine sorrel]

Most NPCs only have to be concerned with where they want to be. The mirage is concerned with where everyone on its side wants to be

And has to decide who wants to be where the most

[young sorrel]

That makes sense

The support problem "I need to think about my friends"

[alpine sorrel]

Everyone out here playing quake while it's trying to play chess

[young sorrel]

I'd definitely be interested to take a look at their AI routines

[alpine sorrel]

Source will become available once we do mod support, by necessity

[young sorrel]

I also anticipate that Barricades will be fun to implement, they need to think about the whole map and "which part of this would be better for me if I threw some rocks on it"

[alpine sorrel]

Yeah I have no idea how to figure that out.

Put it between pcs and objectives maybe

[tepid temple]

Opfor-maker-side "Hey this is a good place to put rocks down" on the mapmaker?

[young sorrel]

That varies by sitrep though

[alpine sorrel]

Or between long range allies and pcs

[alpine sorrel]

Not a bad idea, but I'm hesitant to add features to the editor that only apply to a single npc system

The zone NPC hints currently are more general purpose than that like "push enemies in here"

[young sorrel]

I assume NPCs do know what sitrep is being played?

[alpine sorrel]

Haha no

[young sorrel]

...wait they don't?

[alpine sorrel]

They know what sitrep zones are active and try to occupy them but they don't know why

[young sorrel]

And I guess they also try to move to payloads

[alpine sorrel]

The payload also has a dynamic zone that hints them to try and occupy it

[young sorrel]

Ahh

[brisk snow]

It turns out the advanced power of friendship is really hard to code

[golden rover]

Well, no one can tell you truly why they do what they do

[tepid temple]

It's amazing how mechanistic processes can feign the appearance of intellect and foresight while possessing no true knowledge or cognizance

Sure hope there are no new predatory technologies that take advantage of that

[young sorrel]

Random aside: I think for the Tortuga 3 Throughtbolt Rounds, there should also be an option for a "Throughbolt round shot" that just has the line 3 and nothing else.

Sometimes a line 3 of 2 autodamage is what you need and currently you can't use Throuhbolt Rounds without a target for the weapon attack unless it's an AOE weapon

[alpine sorrel]

Does that work RAW?

[young sorrel]

Yes, because RAW you can shoot at nothing

[tepid temple]

The Skirmisher loophole if you will

[brisk snow]

Wait that’s a thing?

You can just skirmish with no target?

[young sorrel]

Yes, you can skirmish against nothing and trigger skirmisher 2

[brisk snow]

Gross

[tepid temple]

Yes (but not in LT I think Olive's taken an official stance against these shenanigans)

[young sorrel]

You can also skirmish against nothing with a fuel rod gun to clear 4 heat as a quick

instead of adding the ability to shoot at nothing just for this, it'd probably be easier to add a "throughbolt shot" that's just the line 3

[alpine sorrel]

Not really, we just don't have skirmish as a concept

[brisk snow]

So you could theoretically skirmish against nothing with the fuel rod gun to trigger skirmisher 2 and clear heat? Amazing

[young sorrel]

You could, all it would cost you is a charge of a limited 3 weapon

[brisk snow]

These parameters are conditionally acceptable

[young sorrel]

Currently in LT you can even fire a pattern weapon when there are no targets in its pattern

If you want to say "f*ck this tree in particular"

[brisk snow]

Harrison armory R&D design documentation for the genghis

[lilac anchor]

Minor issue ive found with the raleigh

Whenever I change one color, it changes all the colors??

[young sorrel]

The colours in general are kind of bugged right now

For me it alters the colour if I hover over a colour for one frame, so I can only choose colours on the outside of the colour picker

[lilac anchor]

Alrighty

[cloud garnet]

cringe berserker dies to combat drill and i somehow don't stress

[brisk snow]

GIGA DRILL BREEEEEAAAAK

How’d you do 100 ap energy damage?

Exposed, Lucifer?

[cloud garnet]

the berserker was grappling my balor and i hit it

[young sorrel]

I assume you crit?

[cloud garnet]

no actually

[brisk snow]

https://tenor.com/view/vae-gif-15357506855217945854

[cloud garnet]

this was yesterday so i don't have the log anymore but i didn't crit

[young sorrel]

...well in that case you're either the luckiest gamer to ever live or something is wrong with the way the combat drill damage is calculated

[cloud garnet]

i think it's the latter

[brisk snow]

I think it was spiral power

[young sorrel]

The combat drill could theroetically deal 100 damage in a single hit but it would require at minimum 17 Overkill heat

[cloud garnet]

because it's hella wierd that 83 of that 100 damage came from fusion hemorrhage alone

[young sorrel]

Well no, it says 83 bonus damage from Fusion Hemorrage and combat drill

guessing it just lumps all the bonus damage together

[cloud garnet]

maybe

idk

still funny though

[brisk snow]

I feel like it would have to be exposed or something

[young sorrel]

Guess I need to experiment with combat drill

[brisk snow]

If it wasn’t bugged

Idk, weird. Cool though

[cloud garnet]

i'm pretty sure it's a bug

[young sorrel]

Even if it was exposed, drill does 3d6 = 10.5, expose doubles that to 20

that's still nowhere near 100

[cloud garnet]

drill does 4d6

[young sorrel]

...ahh right, same problem though

[cloud garnet]

and i have opcal

[brisk snow]

And you’re in danger zone with nuc cav 2

[cloud garnet]

yep

[brisk snow]

So 6d6

Looks like 3 overkill rolls?

So like, 9d6?

5 of those are bonus damage, wait then it can’t be exposed because the doubled damage would be an even number

Hm.

[weak willow]

https://tenor.com/view/gurren-lagann-giga-drill-break-fight-anime-gif-17170852

Live footage of Bloodsmith's build

[brisk snow]

Quick someone edit a boulder squadron berserker in there

[cloud garnet]

have i done something to you?

[weak willow]

Meant to say Live

[cloud garnet]

i forget how many people i have pissed off with my builds

[weak willow]

Uh, quite the opposite good sir

100 damage is awesome

[brisk snow]

Who gets mad at combat drill? Gurren Lagan haters?

[cloud garnet]

one of my gms banned me from using combat drill after i dealt 70 damage in one hit and killed his ultra

[weak willow]

LOL

Sounds like that GM needs to add a second ultra in his encounters

[cloud garnet]

i also got banned from using mimic gun by that same gm

[weak willow]

"Suddenly over the horizon, another ultra appeared!"

[weak willow]

Okay well there's a subtle common denominator here

[cloud garnet]

well maybe that gm should stop throwing ultras at me

[weak willow]

The GM putting his ultras in range sounds like the problem lol

[hazy ferry]

If I may ask

What kind of builds did you make

That you got banned from the Napoleon

[alpine sorrel]

Just uploaded a hotfix to clean up a few of the major issues from the last build, including the missing setpieces & doodads in the editor and the buggy mech color picker: https://wick.itch.io/lancer-tactics/devlog/1084802/v044-hotfix

[torpid orbit]

are there any plans to include games with more than 4 pilots

[alpine sorrel]

nope

[torpid orbit]

aww

[alpine sorrel]

I have a similar stance about that as not having a really robust faction system -- we're making a way to play games of lancer, not a general-purpose tactics vtt. Limiting/hardcoding some things makes other things easier for us.

and as far as single player is concerned, having one human run four lancer PCs is already a mental stretch

[thin lark]

I often forget stuff my pilots have :)

The ingame access to sheets will help with that a lot, but still, I’m gonna forget a talent or system or two across all four

[torpid orbit]

mostly cause in my home game we are 5 pilots and I would feel bad recreating the team with 4 out of 5 but oh well

[thin lark]

… there is a way, if you’re willing to use…. Alternative measures. You could add the 5th lancer as an AI ally as an on map unit, set it up and stuff via the map editor. Don’t think there’s anything that would let you CONTROL it, but it might be possible in the general case? Would need special map editing for every single combat though

[torpid orbit]

I do wonder about adding an alternate game mode. My "Nuzlocke" challenge is a bit of a hacky mess with the way Lancer normally runs, but I wonder if there is any interest in a "Challenge Mode" where permadeath and randomized characters are a thing

[thin lark]

Once we get access to the overarching mission creator I’m pretty sure that sort of thing will be possible given the sort of data transfer already happening in and out of single map scenarios.

Certainly hoping for it :)

(But then I hope for a lot and I understand it’s a ton of work, so I’m certainly not expecting it - and doubly so not anytime soon.)

If not, we can probably hack something together with the map tools we have right now, with a person actually doing that per-mission tweaking

[torpid orbit]

oh yeah, me neither, it is a ton of work

[brisk snow]

I think right now it would encounter some of the problems people hit with Ironman modes in the newer xcoms where sometimes a bug or edge case happens and you get hit with the spirit of “That’s XCOM baby!”

[torpid orbit]

right, the issues we have are more so questions like "What do we do on level up or pilot death?" or "When do we full repair?"

[thin lark]

Like, you could roll manual dice to work out which sitrep, manually configure that sitrep, split up the player lancer entry placements, add AI allies, track which of them died, manually add only the ones that didn’t to later missions, and “approximate” a two team setup with randomised opponents and different objectives right now… it would just be a lot of work

[torpid orbit]

the way I was doing it was just going top to bottom

[brisk snow]

RIP my maxed out psi op colonel with all of the augmentations. Idk how you ascended in a way that made you stuck floating in the air after being rezed but it was funny

[brisk snow]

Do y’all think variable sword is better than a charge blade in a combined arms build?

I feel like charge blade is better if you want to be adjacent anyway

Because for variable sword to be better you would have to crit or the bigger threat would have to matter

I think I’ve talked myself into charge blade

[torpid orbit]

if you are crit fishing more attacks are better anyways, so things like dual aux or Tiger hunter Sheath from Zheng are better(not that the later is a thing in lancer tactics).

Personally, between all the other forms of gaining accuracy, having a base weapon do more damage is better. And if you want threat, there is also the Nelson warpike, which comes with the thermal charge for extra d6

[cedar hill]

Even just +1 Threat is pretty significant. Makes your Overwatch way nastier

[brisk snow]

It’s more that I’m looking at mourning cloak 3 for fade cloak so the variable sword is just another option I wasn’t planning for

[brisk snow]

Yeah but I hate armor

Got fade cloak in testing something and my reaction was “wow I can be so irresponsible with this”

Beckon towards like 7 guys, realize I prroooobably can’t kill enough of them to not get structured if I just shoot them

https://tenor.com/view/nileseyy-niles-peace-out-disappear-meme-disappearing-guy-checking-out-gif-25558985

I was trying it with variable sword at the same time and I felt very whelmed

“Yeah that’s definitely 4 kinetic down to 2 or 3”

Probably slaps with mourning cloak passive tho

[weak willow]

Probably doesn't ngl

[brisk snow]

Oh really? :/

Damn

Probably slaps with… idk stortebeker crit fishing

Or not

Meh

[weak willow]

Mourning cloak in general is pretty whelming

[brisk snow]

Yeah it doesn’t seem very impressive overall

[weak willow]

If all of Lancer was 1v1s maybe it'd be aight

[brisk snow]

I like some of its stuff in very specific builds

[weak willow]

Sure but even then you're probably using a better frame

[brisk snow]

The daggers are fun if you’re playing duskwing with the core power active. I’m testing singularity motivator as an extra gap closing tool on my manticore

But yeah it’s like, all of this is fine

[cloud garnet]

a brawler napoleon named dicktwister

[weak willow]

Lord have mercy

[brisk snow]

Oh is that because you can make improvised attacks still

[weak willow]

Yup

[brisk snow]

Finally, a use for brawler 2

[cloud garnet]

don't forget nuccav 2

[weak willow]

Oh, you can use brawler 2 with more than napoleon

[brisk snow]

Ok but like, where do you want to use it

[weak willow]

BB, Emp, Xioali say hello

[hazy ferry]

Why Xioali ever

[brisk snow]

Do you mean zheng

[weak willow]

Yup

[hazy ferry]

Why

[cloud garnet]

improvised attacks suck dingusdongus on those mechs too

[brisk snow]

Why improvised attack over anything else

[weak willow]

Because it gets you brawler 3

[cloud garnet]

brawler 1 i can understand

[hazy ferry]

Okay but that doesn't make Brawler 2, what we are talking about, make sense

[brisk snow]

Sorry I mean why use the improvised attack over anything else? I get it being a stepping stone to brawler 3

I get the use case for napoleon

[cloud garnet]

brawler 3 with empakaai being good depends on how the gm interprets your bralwer die working with thermo unguis

i also feel like brawler 3 is kinda redundant for zheng when it has tss3 on the same licence

[cedar hill]

Having GM'd for one, it's got some very slick tricks, don't underestimste it. All that teleporting makes it very slippery and mobile.

[brisk snow]

I can kinda get it, if you like, really need them stunned right this second and they’re not already grappled/you don’t have the option to overcharge to grapple then yeet maybe

[cedar hill]

Accuracy to Agility rolls is lowkey fucked up

[brisk snow]

I don’t think MC is bad

I think the core power is kinda bad

[cedar hill]

The core power is nuts

The full action core passive? Yeah a bit more niche

Absolutely not the core power though

[cloud garnet]

mc core makes you immune to all movement based reactions

that's more than nuts

[brisk snow]

True

[young sorrel]

Casual 30 damage grapple

[brisk snow]

The full action thing I think is kinda meh. Idk maybe I’m just bad

[young sorrel]

This uh... I don't think is right

[cloud garnet]

no blinkspace jump is just kinda meh

it's funny though

[smoky glacier]

MAD STOMP GAMING

[young sorrel]

Throws an autosave at you

[brisk snow]

If you get structured you have to yell “MAAD STOOOOOMP”

[young sorrel]

Casual grapple for 30 energy

[brisk snow]

Wait did you even attack it with the drill?

[cloud garnet]

i'm starting to think combat drill is very bugged

[smoky glacier]

I'd say "it sounds like the NucCav bonus damage was given the exploding effect" but. You didn't even take any Overkill heat

[young sorrel]

No, that was a grapple

[brisk snow]

I mean hugging vlad looks very painful

I wonder why it’s saying you are

Maybe the coral is messing with your memory and you did combat drill him

[young sorrel]

Got a clip of using the combat drill and hitting for 58

[brisk snow]

Wow

[young sorrel]

Regarding the Pinaka Missile animation speedup, the missiles themselves travel faster, but it seems like the actual hit rolls weren't adjusted to compensate, they still play at the time they did before, which leads to an awkward pause when you fire them

[brisk snow]

It’s to give you time to say “omae wa mou shindeiru”

[lethal leaf]

Mourning Cloak is good with forced movement. War Pike is one of the best MC weapons.

[weak willow]

NANI

[rain cipher]

Hooray for update, now I can make maps again 🙂

[toxic badge]

I've seen a few "My antivirus complains about the executable" comments, so PSA: if you use the Itch desktop app for downloading & updating LT, you won't get those complaints (the same way you don't get complaints about steam games).
I've had this happen with every project I've ever distributed on itch. My (very limited) understanding of why that happens is that microsoft has a giant list of "executables from the internet that are probably ok" and as a specific executable gets more and more downloads without bad stuff happening, microsoft eventually adds it to the list. However, as soon as you put up a new executable (like a new version of a video game) the whole process gets restarted. I believe you can also get a very expensive license for a fast-track to get on the green list, but I'd guess that probably is not something the LT team will spend money on. 🤷

Also, I think I've finally caught up on all the bug reports here - massive thanks to everyone reporting issues and posting screenshots and autosaves! You folks are the real utopian pillars 🙏 💪 🎉

[brisk snow]

Bug report: You can equip a second fuel rod gun if you have nuc cav 3

this is on 0.4.4

I was able to deploy with it too

[burnt frigate]

Yeah olive mentioned earlier that the workaround for this issue would be paying for a Microsoft license which is an expense they can't justify

which frankly makes sense, it sucks that it's a hassle but it's the indie game life

[toxic badge]

I've been accidentally spending CPR shots on grunts since the first beta, and I'll probably still be doing it after release. At this point I'm almost proud of myself whenever it happens 😄

[brisk snow]

https://tenor.com/view/white-light-death-smiling-died-with-a-smile-final-fantasy-xiv-gif-25336896

[thin lark]

Sometimes you just need a grunt gone! Very gone! Extra gone! Anything with reliable is good. Sometimes the CPR is all you have :)

[heady iris]

Found a bug

Testing out the new HA mechs
And death cloud from iskander core power damages himself and allies as well

[young sorrel]

It's very good on Stortebeker specifically because that frame desperately wants to crit

And using truesilver on a varsword does give you the bonus damage

Though Stortebeker is obviously not in LT

[heady iris]

Courtesy of my bug finder goblin:

Bein intangible still triggers Broad-sweep seeder as well

[young sorrel]

This looks a bit much

[heady iris]

Minor GUI bug
Where failing a roll with deluvian arch triggers Enlightenment nhp effect but it doesn't let you reroll

This is also the game where sweep seeder does friendly fire

[heady iris]

I should do a recheck on earlier mechs
that looks so fun xD

This one is from the previous version before the hotfix but i think it should be reported

My Napoleon was dropped prone by a bombard and when came his turn i activated my core power
This made the stand up button disappear and I couldn't clear prone after

[heady iris]

Flashlock triggers even when an ally starts flying with All theter movement suit

Or when landing too

Being intangible still triggers the burn from stepping out of the Hard light shield but not when stepping inside strangely

Also when i was intangible and aimed around with my mortar area
It was showing other characters as valid targets with the red mark under them

It didn't attack them in the end as intended
But perhaps the red targeting mark shouldn't appear

[teal flame]

i think that’s just how that drill works

[heady iris]

When stasis generator is used on allies they don't pass automatically and can resist the effect
I think they should be considered willing

[heady iris]

Actually should enlightenment even proc on the diluvian d6?

I think the effect of enlightenment says only skill checks and saves

[lilac anchor]

Just wanted to ask, is it possible to make my pilot an NHP or can I only have a secondary NHP

[young sorrel]

Currently you can only make an NHP an NHP, but it's also possible to not make a pilot at all and just have an NHP

[heady iris]

Got this bug on Saladin where allies that are shield by the tachyon shield always count as adjacent for the purpose of diluvian ark even if they are far away

Also diluvian ark never deactivates at the end of Saladin next turn

[teal sundial]

is it possible for an nhp to be a participant in a conversation atm?

[heady iris]

Maybe it's actually global. Another mech got attacked while being far away but next to my tachyon shielded ally
And diluvian ark triggered for him anyway

Ah great xD
my goblin cable winched on someone, went intangible but the cable didn't break

[brisk snow]

The cable winch clearly transcends physics. It’s a paracausal mechanism

[lethal leaf]

It doesn't go away even when the target teleports. Why would turning intangible break it?

[tidal tulip]

intangible specifically states that it finishes ongoing effects

[lethal leaf]

<Cable Winch> RIP to you, I'm built different.

[weak willow]

Ghost in the Shell

[brisk snow]

so this is kind of an edge case, but how are you supposed to be able to deploy 4 size 2/3 mechs in urban sprawl gauntlet?

like it's not an issue right here but if I had a barbarossa or another size 2 would I just need to bail on that?

Bug Report: anyway I was actually trying to repro some weirdness with size 3 units and juggernaut 3. I think it triggers fall damage if you use unstoppable force through tall terrain. Not sure if that's specific to jug3 though. Also units mounted in a mule harness on a frame that takes fall damage will also take fall damage. Idk if that's WAD

also jug3 won't destroy buildings

alternate angle for clarity

destroyed the trees that were there though

[young sorrel]

Let's find out

It just lets you deploy outside the zone

[brisk snow]

https://tenor.com/view/biggus-dickus-smile-hold-laughter-gif-17949586

oh neat

[young sorrel]

This works surprisingly well

The most terrifying thing to see over the horizon as an opfor: Four gigantic pink Barbarossas

[brisk snow]

like the collossal titan

idk if this is related but I also can't use the weapons on that test lanny for some reason

on reload and attempt to repro, the weapons are usable again. weird

[young sorrel]

...

[brisk snow]

that's a strong hornet

[young sorrel]

I am speed

I am stealth

Quad Siege Cannon is pretty funny

[brisk snow]

ok I tried reproing jug3 on a size 1 under the same conditions and it's a little weird. I'm not sure what should have happened though tbh. Should have ended at the red x if they successfully made it though, but all that happened was taking the heat and then one of the grass blocks was destroyed. Unsure how that got destroyed without the adjacent one being destroyed

I'm assuming we can't make like, caves and overhangs because that would be a pain in the ass

just confused about how that was the only destroyed block

[young sorrel]

Apocalypse Rail

Turns out four core active Barbarossas is quite funny

[lilac anchor]

GOOD LORD

Im playing LT again waiting for class the new visuals are beautiful, but also my god their all dead

[hazy ferry]

Could that be abused?

To let them be placed anywhere on the map?

[young sorrel]

No, it gives you one specific spot outside the zone where you can go

Bug Report: If an enemy dies to a field effect at the start of their turn, that doesn't count as an enemy's activation, and another enemy can act immediately

How do I know this? Uh don't ask

[young sorrel]

Bug(?) report:

The "survive" mode doesn't actually have endless reinforcements. I'm pretty sure when it says it has 10x, it means it, and after that it runs out of enemies and just goes on forever doing nothing

[lilac anchor]

You did it, you survived

[young sorrel]

When they finally looked upon their domain, they wept, for there were no more opfors to bombard

[glad lotus]

... did you blow up the entire map so much that it's under water now?

[young sorrel]

I had four Barbarossas who all had Core active and i was hurling Apocalypse Rail every turn

[brisk snow]

You did it. You caused the apocalypse

[weak willow]

Priest: "Before you pass away, would you like to say a prayer for your enemies?"

Barb: "Enemies? I have no enemies. I've killed them all."

[thin lark]

I believe 99 Red Balloons has an appropriate quote for this:
🎵 “It's all over and I'm standing pretty
In this dust that was a city”🎵

[thin lark]

Bug report: The Drake's Heavy Frame trait still says the Barbarossa can't be pushed, pulled, etc.

It's been that way for a few versions so it may be in the list, but since it's been that way for a couple of months now, thought I'd mention it again in case it's been lost or missed.

[brisk snow]

I guess it’s technically true

[torpid crane]

it's just letting you know

[worn tiger]

the Drake thinks that it's very important that everyone know his buddy Barbarossa can't be pushed, pulled, etc. by smaller characters

[final mesa]

You wouldn't Push a Barbarossa. Pushing a heavy frame mech is cheating. Cheating is against the law!

[heady iris]

Fan fact
I made a titan team made by only size 3 mechs

[heady iris]

Empakai would like to differ

[heady iris]

Don't understand what's keeping my Napoleon from punching this floating bombard here
Maybe something sketchy that has to do with tesseract zone

Can't attack this demolisher even if he's half inside the hard light shield barrier

This one is interesting
Hard light barrier disappears if i space fold Saladin and I don't get burned for stepping out of where the barrier used to be

but the LOS limit stays in the area and doesn't let me target people outside of where the barrier was before being folded with the saladin

Also Bugger says hi
He's helping me find all of these bugs :3

[young sorrel]

Everyone say thank you Bugger
"Thank you Bugger"

[final mesa]

As would the Caliban, but ya know not all of us can be as cool as the mecha Doomguy

[heady iris]

Seems the delayed attack of the pinaka missiles is not activated

Does it work for you guys?

[heady iris]

I confirm that the pinaka area doesn't trigger for me at the end of the following round

[brisk snow]

Thank you bugger

I have not tested the delayed mode on pinaka yet. Did you drop a save file?

[brisk snow]

What’s the biblically accurate circle thing next to bugger? Is that osiris

[stoic bloom]

wanna ask

not that good in coding

how does one trigger reinforcements to come in when a specific unit or number of units die?

similarly how do i get my fuckass npc sniper to stop fragment signalling and reload their sniper?

[heady iris]

ah that's the ideal image from osiris 2 yeah

[heady iris]

i mean i think it's pretty replicable
the attack never went off

[brisk snow]

Oh HOR_OS2?

[heady iris]

yis

[stoic bloom]

also noticed, LOS is a little bit weird

have a witch behind a large 4 height building. like, directly center behind. but it can still see someone on the other side if it

[alpine sorrel]

could you drop a save file where you're seeing them derp? I hoped the last build fixed this

[stoic bloom]

i deleted it.... since i was messing aroundddd...........................

next time i'll send the actual file

[alpine sorrel]

here's one that triggers after a unit dies & there's fewer than 5 enemies on the field

[stoic bloom]

currently just trying to see how to set up triggers and whatnot

yoooooooooooo

thanks

hmm

[alpine sorrel]

it's not intuitive, and we definitely need to make some tutorials sometime

[stoic bloom]

wanna ask, npc snipers LOVE to frag sig and hate to reload. why might that be?

[alpine sorrel]

imbalanced ai action weights or something

[stoic bloom]

is it because of the "prioritize attacks" part while they're in a holdout zone?

i see

[alpine sorrel]

for this, mind sharing a screenshot? the LOS system is a beast and we've tried to tune it to be roughly right but there's some funky edge cases

[stoic bloom]

gonna try to recreate it, gimme a bit

oh welp

new minor bug

added in an arrow zone, deleted it, but the arrow is still there for the missing zone

[thin lark]

Here's one for specific unit, although I haven't tested it works.

Obviously you can trigger whatever reinforcements, see Olive's better and less rushed example for how to do reinforcements.

[stoic bloom]

curious

let's say there is an AI-controlled duskwing

if i have the duskwing have gunslinger, they usually don't trigger i kill with my heart. is there a set of trigger to let's say, trigger kill with my heart when hitting an enemy?

[thin lark]

Not that I'm aware of. I'm also not aware of how (or even if) the NPC AI uses player stuff. It might be that they literally cannot use active conditional talents because they do not know how.

I would guess that they'll at least evaluate what actions they have available to them, but I've not tested that. None of the current NPCs have anything fancy after all.

Add Kit to Zone is the only way of dynamically modifying unit stuff as well, as far as I can see - and I don't know and haven't tried (but keep meaning to check) whether the kit is added for the rest of the scene, or just while it's in that zone.

Can't even seem to apply the buff directly either, it's not a status and doesn't seem to be in the list of applicable unit effects as far as I can see. Might be possible to do something via kits, but I didn't see anything in there...

Let me know if you find differently though. There's a lot unexplained, untested, or simply untried in the combat editor so far!

Loading up the tutorial maps and seeing how their triggers work is probably the best examples we have to go on

[stoic bloom]

no, the sentinels i gave vanguard to uses it a LOT. but not, let's say, walking armory. they still get things from duelist tho

[thin lark]

Vanguard is a passive talent though, not an active conditional talent

[stoic bloom]

true

[thin lark]

I don't think they can -choose- to select any options for something like walking armoury or crack shot. Stuff that happens automatically seems to work.

[stoic bloom]

npc deaths head won't reload its own weapon...

[thin lark]

NPCs certainly used to reload, especially snipers, a few builds ago.

That said, a turn stabilizing really is wasted if there's something active to do. I know I try not to if I can get away with it, so it's a difficult one to prioritize.

[alpine sorrel]

you'll want to set the timing to PRE on this one as by the time POST-death rolls around, the context's unit will no longer be valid.

[thin lark]

Ahah, thanks, I would totally have missed that for far too long if using it.

[alpine sorrel]

yeah up until yesterday NPCs didn't know how to use action variants. Implementing the rebake demolisher's Earthshatter forced me to implement it so it knew how to throw though

[thin lark]

ooooh, rebake stuff! (Mild hype)

[alpine sorrel]

yeah I just finished rebaking all the already-implemented NPC abilities, so the next build will be the first one with kai's rebake

[stoic bloom]

i guess that means NPC Lancers are unable to, let's say, trigger KWMH

tested out a lancaster supporter as well, it's doing...

well

it just keeps attacking and attacking and killing even though it has no prioritise attacks zone triggers

even when its allies are dying all around it

[thin lark]

Support is really hard to know when to do. Priests seem to support pretty well though. Have you considered taking the parts of the lancaster kit you're interested with and sticking them onto a priest chassis instead?

(Or simply not giving the Lancaster ANY guns/weapons?)

It's also quite possible that the latch drone simply doesn't have AI weights yet - being a player system, I'd probably weight those for "when do I use these?" as an absolute last lowest priority item

[stoic bloom]

you can't put player systems onto NPC mechs. I tried.

you CAN put on mods and weapons though if you give them the flex mount core bonus

hence why my funny sentinel has a seeking DSAS

actually

lemme test out the Hydra

[thin lark]

You might be able to get player systems onto NPCs via the Add Kit To Zone effect. They show up in the list, at least.

could have a Post-Combat Start effect that applies extra equipment, if it doesn't go away when it leaves the zone.

(I'd usually check how it works but I only have 10 minutes spare and I don't feel like it right now :( )

[stoic bloom]

hmm, which one is that one?

[thin lark]

This one.

I mean, it doesn't show up in the scan which is pretty unexpected, but it DOES work

(Note the sentinel using an assault cannon on me)

It only works when something is IN the zone, though. Which causes chaos most of the time

I now have a flying mech that has no way to stop flying.

It can still move, but only by boosting.

Even weirder, I think it's a shared single piece of equipment across the zone... once someone has attacked with the zone's assault cannon, nobody else can? It's weird!

[brisk snow]

I think the juggernaut 2 damage is triggering multiple times per turn

Bug report: juggernaut 2 damage triggered twice

also I think the hull save for crackshot 3 is triggering on multiple shots

bug report: you can destroy the payload on agni river by initiating moving it while on the bridge with a size 3 unit. Not sure if it's supposed to be destructible tbh, but it failed the engineering check for lava when it was picked up

oh also doesn't fail the mission if it is destroyed

Side note, are all of the mechs mounted on a mule harness supposed to be subject to all the terrain effects the mule has to deal with?

[cedar hill]

RAW they would be I'm pretty sure

[brisk snow]

Didn’t know that, neat

[cedar hill]

They share all of the Mule's spaces

[brisk snow]

I wonder if that’s how the payload is coded now then

[brisk snow]

The Agni river map always has the extra heat environmental effect right

If it does, I don’t think the 1 heat damage from the plasma cutter is increased at all

[brisk snow]

Nice work on all of the fixes for hall of mirrors btw, I haven’t been able to break it again so far, although it was a decent source of schadenfreude to watch berserkers step through an entire line of them. they still beat the fuck out of my team afterwards but still

[weak willow]

The Path We All Must Take

A lengthy map primarily specialized as a difficult Escort sitrep and a crushing Holdout, this mission features a temple built to venerate some form of power- An anomalous power source? The entrance to a metavault? An unshackled NHP worshiped as a god? No matter what, the path we all must take lies within.