Lancer Tactics

[lilac anchor]

id imagine, then finish up NPC classes, then templates

[young sorrel]

And presumably work on a campaign sometime in there

[weak willow]

shhhh this is how i trigger IKWMH so often

[young sorrel]

Ahh right, Missile Racks

[weak willow]

smiling the whole time you both banter your way through the mission

so glad you guys liked Boarding Action, it should be even better with the next release 🙏

[lilac anchor]

It was a wonderful map, thank you!

[young sorrel]

Wait were you the one who made it?

[dense furnace]

Heyo, just downloaded the latest version and tried looked around some maps to find this, figured i'd ask if anyone else has seen this or if it's just me

As well as i currently load into a match, i believe something has gone mildly wrong as i can not see the objective or ingress zones, and all characters are sihilottes

[alpine sorrel]

Do you happen to have an AMD graphics card? Godot games have been getting errors like this on AMD

This thread says that they've released a fix that should solve this:https://github.com/godotengine/godot/issues/109378

That you can download from AMD's website

[dense furnace]

ah, yeah i do

thank you! will try it out now

[young sorrel]

Trying out making a map

...wish I was good at making maps

[alpine sorrel]

Just watched this while waiting in the airport. What a treat 🙂 🙂

[lilac anchor]

Thank you! It’s nice hearing the creator likes my stuff, I def need to make a second some time

[proud dirge]

very good video

would love to see more

[young sorrel]

How do I pick up the payload?

[final mesa]

Ostensibly, the payload automatically moves with your standard move and you don't have to pick it up, but I don't know for sure if it's different in LT

[young sorrel]

That's what it normally does, but it seems to get stuck in the water often

Here's something funny: You can brace a missed attack in LT

Assault missed me, and I braced the 3 reliable damage to not structure

[weak willow]

Yup! Planning another interior map soon!

[young sorrel]

Well huge thanks for making the map, it's super cool!

(It's also very evil that snipers and bombards can spawn directly adjacent to you in a holdout 😡 )

[weak willow]

Haha it's not so bad when you have reliable damage lol!

But that is one of the things I fixed in the new version that will roll out with the next update

[alpine sorrel]

I wonder if the problem is that since the payload doesn't have an EVA, it gets slowed in water, and therefore by default special movement actions are disabled.

[young sorrel]

Ahh, that might be it

The strange thing though is that this doesn't always happen, I think it has to be deep water

Or something. Also trying to get the payload up a ledge is a nightmare, each step up you have to drop it and regrab it again

[young sorrel]

A thing that happened to me today:

-Shot a launcher weapon
-Used Stormbringer for knockback
-Self-knockback pushed me off a bridge to the ground below. Took 3 kinetic.
-Got structured by 3 kinetic. It was my second structure.
-Rolled double 1 on my Structure roll.
-Failed my hull save.
-Died.
-Did not correctly identify the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow.

[young sorrel]

To whichever Lancer Tactics dev had asked for footage/bug report about the sometimes inconsistent behaviour of enemies using their dodge reactions, here I shoot Pinakas at a Grunt Ace who absolutely could Barrel Roll and save themselves, but instead they just die.

[thin lark]

Shift Payload is useful for that, but yeah it’s a struggle on ledges and stuff.

Wouldn’t matter so much if you could fly or jump jet or just jump with it but I’ve never got those to work when moving the payload

[weak willow]

You can't use any cool movement with the payload whatsoever sadly

Grapple cable, boost, auto-dumps it

Kind of the same confusion when grappling enemies tbh- sometimes you drag them with you when you move, sometimes moving leaves them behind

Usually not a problem in the long run but it does lead to >.> moments for my Blackbeard pilots haha

[hazy ferry]

Just to make sure, steam release is still planned right?

[alpine sorrel]

yes, sometime after the kickstarter wraps up (which is planned for next march)

[blissful karma]

Hey @alpine sorrel ! Think it would be possible to add some elevated pipes to the assets? Something that would stand somewhat like the bridges. Just a suggestion.

[fossil lagoon]

we were doing holdout on uhh.. castle crash? i think is what its called? and a demolisher spawned directly in the middle of all of our mechs and we almost shrieked

“we” being the system lol

[young sorrel]

Oh yes, I know all about doing holdouts on castle crash
Pile of dead PCs

[heady iris]

i think we need a line or 2 of text to explain when exposed singularity triggers xD

[alpine sorrel]

👍 I think I noticed that a few weeks ago and it should be fixed in the next update.

[alpine sorrel]

I'll add it to the asset request list!

[young sorrel]

Is there any sort of logic as to which enemy will be hit by the Nuclear Cavalier bonus damage when shooting an AOE weapon?

Currently it seems to just be random, but I think it would benefit from some sort of internal clause that the bonus damage can't hit an object or a grunt if another target was also hit.

[alpine sorrel]

I bet it's currently just "which unit spawned first so is first in the list"

👍 would be nice to give player control over it, or failing that make it smarter

[young sorrel]

Ahh, that explains why it would so often hit wrecks, if enemies die and then new ones spawn the wrecks would be earlier in the list

[thin lark]

There’s no information as to which enemy in an area attack the GMS turret reaction is going to hit either. Some of the reactions draw a line but I don’t think that one does

[proud dirge]

shouldnt bonus damage be halved and apply to everyone?

[thin lark]

(Depends on the bonus damage, I think nuclear cavalier specifies it’s the first target, so it never gets spread to area attacks. Can’t recall for sure, but some of the bonus damage works that way)

[proud dirge]

ohhh i see

[young sorrel]

Weird interaction i found today: got knocked prone by a bombard, climbed into water, stopped being prone because of EVA Module, climbed back onto land, was prone again.

[young sorrel]

Gonna test out the Survive mode, with what I would surmise is the best team for it:

[sturdy basin]

All the same build?

I was trying to crack it by using caltrops and the Plasma thrower to see if I could just kill them before they even reached me

[toxic badge]

I was looking for footage related to Hornets not using Weave when they should, but this is also very useful, thank you! 🙏

[young sorrel]

Round count: 25
Structure damage taken: 0

[young sorrel]

I'm running two sniper builds with Uncle AMR, and two CQB builds with Throughbolt Krakatoa and Vanguard 3 DSAS

I also have Hyperdense Armor, which I realized after the fact I should absolutely not have xD

With 6 hull, persos, and Reinfoced Frame alongside core active each frame heals 17 HP per turn, and enemies just can't break through that

[blissful karma]

Holy crap, how did you manage this? I, for myself, have a lot of difficulty maintaining my Balors, as their size 2 make them hard to cover, and thus prime targets.

Another bug report, @alpine sorrel . I've got a Gorgon with a main/aux mount equipped with a vorpal gun and a pistol. When I shoot the pistol, I then get to shoot the vorpal, even if it is not supposed to be usable outside of reactions. Anyway, thanks and keep up with the good work!

Oh, and also, I'm pretty sure those are not supposed to superpose like this.

[young sorrel]

Well first off, I was using Core active on all of them and had maxed HP, so was healing 17 HP per turn, and I would always take the action of the most damaged Balor immediately.

These are the sniper Balor builds I was using, turn was Crack Shot, Uncle AMR, full action Stabilize, and I OCed once to pop Swarm Body at the very start.

I could definitely optimize these further, like I didn't use Nuc Cav at all and could have taken Tactician 3 instead, but I think I'm done with endless mode XD

[blissful karma]

Hey, thanks for the follow up. Nice sniper build you have there. Do you have to use your assault riffle often? Personally, I would replace it with a super-heavy weapon bracing so you can shoot with a Cyclone Pulse riffle instead of the AM. Anyway, just a thought that came by. Thanks again for the tip!

[young sorrel]

I can't use a superheavy because I need to full action stabilize every turn (and superheavy can't be used with Uncle), Balor doesn't have the heat cap to OC loop

I think if I were to redo this, I would actually take Hydra 1 and use Ghoul Nexus with Tactician 3, because this team had a really tough time killing Hornets (I was testing vs the first enemy group)

[proud dirge]

hi found a bug while playing tonight. bottom-right sentinel fired at the PCP and triggered vorpal gun, but gorgon didnt have line of sight to sentinel so couldnt fire vorpal gun

also, everest couldnt put down jericho cover in a free space

[stable smelt]

you don't have two free spaces to deploy it into!

[proud dirge]

but theres a free space right next to blackbeard, or does jericho not allow deploy on the diagonals?

[worn tiger]

Jericho segments need to be adjacent to both you and each other

The space to your left and the one by the blackbeard would result in the Jerichos not being next to each other

[young sorrel]

This Bombard tried to shoot my Vlad with its Bombard Cannon, which of course didn't work because of Ordnance, and it knocked itself prone with its own Earthshaker Shells

But there weren't any other targets in range, so I'm not sure why it tried to do this

[worn tiger]

Brilliant work bombard, you're a credit to OPFOR.

Also perfect form mino!

[young sorrel]

This is why I think a Pinaka or Siege Cannon build is a mandatory piece of every serious team

[young sorrel]

Bug(?) Report: You cannot use Active Camouflage while you're invisible from a previous turn's Active Camouflage, even though Active Camouflage lasts until the end of your next turn and so the invisibility is going to run out immediately after my turn ends.

[proud dirge]

oh i see thank you!

[thin lark]

So I was testing a quick map and fiddling with triggers and stuff and ended up against the warbois, as you do, and I had some LL0 test pilots I think the game picked for me, unimportant which, and I need to get to round 2 to make sure some triggers are working

So I'm playing fast, beserkers rushing in, ramming, shotguns, don't really care much. Wait. Don't they have a bombard?

Yes. Yes they do. It's elite, in fact, and it saved both activations until the end of the round

It's now round 2 and... nobody DIED... Lost four structure total over three mechs, though!

Was funny

So yeah, now everyone is stunned, prone, and has one structure down, and there's two beserkers in melee range. Not sure we'll reach round 3.

Triggers worked though!

Oh, and I found... it's not a BUG, as such, but it makes consecutive testing harder...

The "Play" button from the map editor, it doesn't do a full repair of your squad

So now I'm testing a slightly different set of triggers and I have a goblin on 1 structure, 3hp and a pair of everests with sliiightly more.

I'm not sure I can check the round 2 trigger functions because I'm pretty sure I'll die before then :)

If it doesn't screw anything up, a full repair on pressing the Play button from the map editor is probably a good idea?

[thin lark]

Speaking of, I made this quick showcase showing how random numbers (or not random, if you change that) can be used to deploy enemies from more than one reinforcement bundle. It's not quite as smooth as selecting it from the sitrep, but it's a good proof of concept if you like that sort of thing:

[alpine sorrel]

Oh that's a good bug catch, ty!

[heady iris]

not sure if it was reported already but i'm having issues with impact lance on my tokugawa
i have all bonuses to increase threat up to threat 7 but whenever i try hitting someone outside of range 3 (its standard threat)
the attack doesn't go off

[young sorrel]

Yeah, the war bois IMO are by far the hardest Opfor. I usually run a frame specifically tailored to beat them

And by Them I mean Berserkers

[thin lark]

I still keep meaning to make that thread to put OpFors in. It's funny fighting against the one I made which is all veteran elites

Very different feeling :)

[young sorrel]

I'd been testing out a Open Door Impaler Nailgun Vlad, but it turns out Shrike Armor is actively bad against Berserkers

[young sorrel]

Bug Report: All of the Manticore hacks deal damage to you even if you miss with them, which is not how they're supposed to work

[teal flame]

incredibly funny to fight as a minotaur

get slowed, idiot (it instantly shuts off their charge if they fail the save)

[stable smelt]

mostly you can simplify 'you choose an invade on hit' to 'choose an invade to use against them'(certainly lancer for Foundry does), since you generally already know what you want to happen. it does matter for manticore invades and stuff that you can choose to order before choosing an invade, like the heat, hacker 1, nuclear cavalier 1, and such.

hacker 1 is notable for that because getting to ask the GM 'push or heat' before choosing an invade can alter your choice. which is something I think was noted as something likely to be cut here/otherwise adjusted

[young sorrel]

I actually tried using an Interdiction Field Vlad and it worked pretty well

I feel like Berserkers though have a secret ability of "always passes saves when it would result in you getting killed"

[teal flame]

horus core bonus says lmao no

[young sorrel]

I literally had it and it wasn't enough

So i think it was just a skill issue

[worn tiger]

Can I interest you in some Quick Tech Invade: Fragment Signal (Slowed and Impaired)?

It'll ruin a berserker's whole day

No stampede defense off the slow, and the impair'll mess up their attacks and any saves you throw at them

[young sorrel]

My folly is that I try for Quick Action "Shoot Open Door Impaler Nailgun" instead

Which has much higher upside but you need to get both the hit and the failed save

[sonic yarrow]

Im not sure if I'm doing it incorrectly, but I couldn't click on locations to deploy Javelin Rockets on an LL1 Everest

[thin lark]

Can confirm, it just doesn't seem to work.

I don't think you're doing it wrong, it ought to work like any other choose spaces ability, but it doesn't seem to.

[alpine sorrel]

Yep they're broken on the current build, will be fixed in the next one.

[torpid orbit]

if I purchase the 20 dollar game, will i get future updates and the campaign?

[young sorrel]

I assume so, I bought it previously and was able to redownload it for free on each new patch

[toxic badge]

Yes, with the usual caveats about early access / Kickstarter projects (no guarantee of future content).
I believe a steam release is planned, but I have no idea if itch owners / ks backers will get steam keys.

[alpine sorrel]

I think I can at this point give a tentative yes to itch keys (eventually!) coming with steam keys. We'll likely have to increase the price on itch at that point (because you can't give keys unless the prices match, and I want to have the steam one be more expensive) so getting it now might even get you the steam key cheaper than you'd get it later.

[final mesa]

It's pretty dang common for games to increase their price for full release, so anyone giving you gruff about that is/would be being pretty ridiculous.

[small panther]

Hang on, the plan is to give itch keys if you get it on steam, but is it also to give steam keys if you get it on itch ?

[alpine sorrel]

Only the latter

Itch => steam
Itch < X = steam

[small panther]

Oh damn

So if I buy now on itch I'll get the steam key when that happens.

That's perfect actually, I just ran out of quick games to play.

[torpid orbit]

can I import my own pilot art into this game?

[torpid orbit]

turns out an all everest party at LL12 with only GMS parts can take out boulder company at round 4

wait, is there only tier 2 enemies?

[alpine sorrel]

Not yet, but it's on the post-kickstarter roadmap.

[alpine sorrel]

No -- you can adjust the enemy tier in instant action in the instant action setup.

[torpid orbit]

ah, no wonder that mission was easy

[torpid orbit]

its not letting me increase it above 2

wait, is that + an indicator of a modifer?

[thin lark]

I believe so. At LL12 the default opponents should be tier 3

[alpine sorrel]

Oh, yes. You're not the first that that hasn't been clear to. Hm.

[heady iris]

something weird is up with my folder number that keeps track of the number of pilots in the folder

oh i see what it is
when i go to rename it, the number in brackets also gets written in the name
so if i don't delete it it stays

[young sorrel]

I did it, I finally got a recording of a Hornet not weaving a reaction attack. This was second turn of the first round, it flew into my Vlad's range and instantly died to Vanguard 3

Here's a log for you, if that'd help

[heady iris]

don't forget the save file too

[young sorrel]

Remind me where that is?

(Is this it?)

[heady iris]

yes that's it

from the save folder

[heady iris]

weird, i suppose that was the first time in the round that the hornet triggered a reaction
because yep weave is 1/round

[young sorrel]

It is, but this was also the first enemy activation of the entire round

so it definitely should have had weave available

[heady iris]

maybe a bug with vanguard 3?

ye something is definitely wrong with impact lance and the threat bonus from toku

i have 5 threat but it doesn't let me attack the enemies

when i use the full threat range, attacking one target is ok

but not multiple

[blissful karma]

Hey there @alpine sorrel . Got a new bug to report. I started a turn with a merch that had the auto-cool protocol on. Usually works fine, but this time, I also had another which had the lesson of the held image core bonus. So, when I activated my auto-cooling mech, my image holder could use its reaction and place a lock-on on a target, but it kind of overrode the auto-cooling system, which didn't happened this turn.

Not sure I'm clear; don't hesite to tell me if I need to rephrase.

[young sorrel]

Bombards don't know how Ordnance works

[alpine sorrel]

Inline hoverable glossary tooltips!

[gritty spire]

LETS FUCKING GOOOOO

I really wanted that feature

think I even requested a while back lol

very hyped for the next build!!

[cinder island]

I really like how the action economy is very clearly laid out for everyone to be able to intuit just from them being on the same line

only thing not there is protocol/free

[alpine sorrel]

It'll be a process to roll them out to all systems since it requires manually updating the text entry, eg You gain +2 HP, representing a minor modification you have made to your mech. => You gain |+2 HP|, representing a minor modification you have made to your mech.

but I've started it out by adding it to all the GMS gear and tags

[cinder island]

oh sorry that is free action! not full

see, my dumb ass is why clear UIs are necessary

[alpine sorrel]

I actually need to figure out how to handle deeply nested glossary dives... the text processing is heavy enough that I think I'm going to need to limit it in some way & probably not include additional tabbable entries for anything past the initial entry.

so in this example it'd end up as not showing the free action

[cinder island]

personally i don't think being able to tab over to the other entries on the line would be necessary here? It looks enough like the Foundry Lancer toolbar (but more legible tbh) that helps you keep track of your actions

meaning, it just sorta implies, by the mere way it's laid out, that these particular things all go together

thus helping a new player get familiarized easier and faster with the elements of a turn

i don't have the vocabulary to really explain what I'm trying to say here

uh: Grouping the similar/related keywords together in the tooltip shown helps reinforce the learning a hypothetical new player has already received. They're already doing a lot of reading about how grapples work, and taking in a lot of information, so having this association-by-layout is reinforcing other related concepts purely visually rather than with more text. It's good UI design.

You even have the little Quick Action half-hex associated with the words elsewhere on the tooltip. The more consistent the coupling of the text with the icon the faster the player learns to read the two as interchangeable as well, so they're gonna start picturing the half-hex when they see the words "quick action" even alone.

Anyway yes, 10/10

[alpine sorrel]

Oh the icon thing is a good callout. Just added those to the little glossary tabs as well.

[proud dirge]

THANK THE MAKERRRRRRRRR

[golden rover]

It's really important to me that since Lancer is a menus game, the UI f@cks, and this UI has it going on more than Stacy's mom.

[cedar hill]

if you take jager kunst 1 it's also a parkour game

[thin lark]

But you’re still doing the parkour via menus.

[alpine sorrel]

Hey anyone want to do me a favor and do a survey of the core rulebook for sources of bonus damage that are only expended on a hit? (that apply to the entire attack, not just one roll/target so not e.g. I Kill With My Heart or NucCav)
Somebody reported that, currently, OPCal is getting expended on misses as well. I don't have a good mechanism for keeping it around if the bonus damage it rolled at the start of the attack never gets applied to anyone, and I'd like to know how common a situation that is.

[thin lark]

I have text searched the core rule book it mentions bonus damage 38 times. Now checking those…

• Inspiring Presence: leadership 3, can expend leadership die for +1d6 bonus damage on hit, but presumably that would be per attack roll (it says “to deal +1d6 bonus damage when they hit with an attack.”)

Leaving in as possible, depending how you interpret it to work with area attacks etc (and when you offer choice of spending the leadership die)

• Overpower Calibre, as mentioned, is 1/round on hit only

• Hunter; mourning cloak frame trait, is 1/round, you may deal bonus damage on a hit with a melee attack. I’m not sure how often it would come up but it’s possible this plus some weird area melee weapon or melee talents might count? Either way it seems like it might fit your criteria?

[flint portal]

Thermal Charges also

[thin lark]

• Expose Weakness, from corebook Scout, applies a debuff to a target that makes it take extra bonus damage specifically only when it’s hit, not when it’s missed?

(And then it goes away after being hit, otherwise lasts for scene)

Thanks for mentioning

• thermal charges,
  apparently a text search for bonus damage doesn’t find that. Not sure why honestly, it has the words!

Unless my search has missed more that’s it for bonus damage sources that apply to an attack, are expendable, but only trigger on hit, in the core book.

(But with one example of that now I don’t trust it.)

It’s possibly line breaks!

• Hunter Lock might also count:
  first successful attack on hunter locked target each round deals +3 bonus damage

I can’t find any more. I ran the search for bonus, this time, and just looked in the licenses and talents sections

[alpine sorrel]

Great, ty! MC Hunter I have as specific-target damage (since if you had like an impact lance that hit one isolated target and one not-isolated target, it'd only apply to the former) & same with Hunter Lock + Expose weakness. But Leader 3 is a great find.

For thermal charges... I'm not sure how to handle. If you have an impact lance with thermal charges, does that bonus damage apply to everyone attacked?

because you don't know if you have it or not until you start rolling actual attacks

[thin lark]

I have no idea! I’d say yes if it were GMing but I have been so wrong with lancer rules before :)

[alpine sorrel]

so you could be like:

• roll against target 1 => miss
• roll against target 2 => hit
• roll against target 3 => hit, expend thermal charge

should the bonus damge apply to target 2? And then also get halved?

[thin lark]

I think so? It’s weird though. Might be simpler to make it just whatever target it triggered against… is that best for the player? I don’t know. 🤷

Yeah, rules as written I think that’s what would happen for impact lance, because you roll damage once for that whole line of damage.

(That, being, bonus damage applied to both 2 and 3, and halved)

[flint portal]

The bonus damage applies to everyone you hit i'm pretty sure yeah

Thermal Charges are odd but part of their appeal is you can see if you crit before expending them

To get the most value out of them

[alpine sorrel]

That's so rough. It'll mean an attack event won't be able to queue up its own damage events anymore because aoe attacks can interfere with each other as they resolve.

Cool cool cool

[thin lark]

There’s no emoji for “sad programmer commiserations”, but there should be.

(In theory I could fix that but what would it be? A generic humanoid torso giving a hug to some other generic humanoid crying into a keyboard?)

Anyway, good luck, Thankyou for your effort!

[tepid temple]

Rubber ducky with pensive face?

[proud dirge]

absolutely should be pensive rubber duck

[torpid orbit]

is it possible to load custom art images for our pilots?

[proud dirge]

it will be on v1

[torpid orbit]

does v1 also come with a story?

[alpine sorrel]

We have two modules in the works, but likely only one will be ready by the Kickstarter release

[stable smelt]

(IKWMH is the whole attack but is expended hit or miss)

[alpine sorrel]

Re custom portraits that's steam release territory, which will come a bit after

[stable smelt]

I think so. you can also expend a charge on both 2 and 3 at once.

[young sorrel]

In terms of Bonus Damage that's only applied on hit, the Mourning Cloak damage trait works like this as well

[hazy ferry]

Which one, if I may ask?

[small panther]

I think they're custom to the setting of LT if I'm not making shit up

[stable smelt]

as for the actual situation, 'I miss with my opcal gun but try again later in the round with overwatch/immediately with overcharge' is pretty big

[alpine sorrel]

Dia's Pegasus heist

[hazy ferry]

I see interesting

[teal sundial]

which people are writing/putting together what modules?

[torpid orbit]

how do you move the payload on extraction? It seems so finnicky? It gets caught on everything and its hard to know when or where you are allowed to move it

[young sorrel]

In base Lancer, you can move the payload whenever you're taking a standard move

Though that's not super well communicated in Lancer tactics, for example if the payload is 3 squares away and you have speed 5 you can boost 3 towards it, move it 5, and then take the 2 final squares of your boost

[alpine sorrel]

I just did a refactor of how it moves with you (closer to a temporary mule harness rather than a grapple) so the finickiness should be improved in the next build

[young sorrel]

Hooray!

[alpine sorrel]

And yeah I find myself in tabletop doing weird turn rearrangements (boost up to it and then move vs move up to it and then boost) so in LT we just put a max speed limit on it per-turn equal to your speed and only let you move it with its move/shift actions.

Which should end up being functionally similar to "only your standard move", in that it can move up to your speed per turn and you can't do any fancy tricks to speed it up

The remaining task about it is to let you bring it along with you when you use a standard jump

Which is niche enough that I haven't prioritized it.

But kai bioplating enjoyers will get their day

[young sorrel]

And hopefully also some sort of "drag it out of the water" ability

because right now it's prone (heh) to getting stuck in water

[alpine sorrel]

Yeah I gave it an EVA lol

[young sorrel]

[alpine sorrel]

So it'll float

[young sorrel]

I tried making an entirely underwater map and then realized why that would not be a good idea

Also I'm bad at making maps

[thin lark]

I dunno, I think it has some good potential, if you build for it, and find a way to give all the NPCs an EVA module

The map design space is pretty different when everything flies

[young sorrel]

Yeah, the problem is the NPCs I'm pretty sure to not have EVA modules

[thin lark]

Can make them have it via map triggers, but then it's harder to customize the opposition and sitrep

[alpine sorrel]

I have a zero g environmental modifier planned that gives the entire opfor EVA 👍 (in addition to making the whole terrain zero g, a bit of terrain data I had to implement for the Isk)

[thin lark]

If the water level is kept at least 3 above the top terrain that'd do it :)

[young sorrel]

Got the funny tooltip

Also, behold my secret tech

[hazy ferry]

That's funny

[young sorrel]

Am sick of dealing with hornets

[proud dirge]

REAL

I HATE HORNETS

[torpid orbit]

do the monarch's javelin rockets work? I cant seem to lay them down

[lilac anchor]

Shared part of my LT YouTube video on my film class, got good advice on what did and didn’t work! I’m def making a second sometime

[alpine sorrel]

Currently broken, will be fixed in next build

[hazy ferry]

Hornets are the evillest thing a person can throw at players

And I've had a DM throw a ton of stun enemies at us

[young sorrel]

Wow, I didn't expect that the enemy AI was smart enough to try to search for a hidden character

[brisk snow]

Oh how did you get the top down view? I HOR OS1’d an assault into the water on one of the maps where they’d just be stuck but I couldn’t target them again because of the angles

[weak willow]

press R

[brisk snow]

Ty!

[weak willow]

gives you top-down persp

[brisk snow]

I just picked it up after following the updates on bsky for a while now, it slaps so far

[young sorrel]

Is there any way to see how many Walking Armoury charges you have left?

I kind of just assume they never run out

[alpine sorrel]

I don't think so but there for sure should be

[young sorrel]

I wonder which character the Bombard doesn't like

[final mesa]

What if you don't want all the enemies to have EVA modules? For if the Opfor isn't fully prepared for a space fight?

[alpine sorrel]

Dunno. Supporting space combat isn't really on our roadmap yet; I only added it because doing the Isk made it easy. Maybe if/when we get around to doing long rim we'll have found a more nuanced approach.

[final mesa]

Seems reasonable. It's very much an edge case anyway, but it was something that I thought could make sense/come up. If the players are like, ambushing a ship or something.

[thin lark]

For specific , non-general cases you can always specify the opposing force exactly in the map editor, along with what specific objectives and triggers you want. It’s more hassle and complex than the quick sitreps but not that much work if you just want some more control over the enemy to also throw in whichever sitrep rules are appropriate.

[hollow oracle]

oh are the other books a real possibility at this point?

[alpine sorrel]

No more so than they were before, just a hope

If all goes well

[golden rover]

What's the best case scenario?

[torpid orbit]

you know what I noticed playing this game...the AI doesnt mess around when it wants to bully 1 particular pilot. If not given more attractive options they will kill you with tech attacks and reliable damage, really messing with 1 pilot until they structure. It makes me think about all the times my GM has pulled their punches whenever one of the players was just getting dumped on by the roll of the dice

[alpine sorrel]

Yeah. Thank your human GM, they're always gonna make for a better experience than a computer can.

[torpid orbit]

not complaining about the game, its fun

it is what it is

[alpine sorrel]

We launch on steam next year & make enough ongoing sales to both support ourselves (instead of having to scrounge and do part time work to pay rent) and pay more artists/writers to make more content to get it to do even better on Steam. This cycle lets us port more supplementary books and gives the game a nice long tail. A healthy ecosystem of player-created content is supported via the in-game editors and outside-game resources like discord, youtube guides, and wikis. We also exist in a symbiotic relationship with the TTRPG where each brings more attention and players to the other. We experiment with other metagame structures like a metavault delve roguelike mode. The game's anticolonial political stories cause people to learn more about the history of their own hometown, understand how it exists in the context of wider imperial projects, and get involved to fight against real world injustice where they can. It gives us the financial breathing room to make future games — I have my neurobiology education to get back to, but I could also see making sequels using this same engine.

Idk a lot of it boils down to "we get the financial breathing room to keep working on it and support our artistic, player, and personal communities."

Oh I also want to turn the studio into a co-op instead of the panic LLC I had on hand when we were setting up the KS.

[near linden]

metavault delve roguelike mode
i did not realize i wanted this until just now

[alpine sorrel]

Can't wait to pick between three things but in Lancer

[near linden]

....aaargh now ideas are happening
what if you have a "one pilot continues after failure" like in Into The Breach, with the other members of the team getting added to a roster of possible minibosses

gotta stop thinking about this until there's time to sketch it out properly

[thin lark]

Well, now I have additional wants.

So they all sound like good ideas to me :)

[hollow oracle]

I shall tentatively hope then 🤞

[alpine sorrel]

Just ran into another wrinkle for this for overkill...

• roll against target 1 => crit
• roll against target 2 => hit, expend thermal charge.

if the thermal charge crit damage rolls are (2, 1), overkill needs to retroactively get triggered and applied even though no 1s were rolled in the attack where the bonus damage actually came from... Lancer is complicated.

[brisk snow]

Is there a known issue with mule harness and hunter 1? Whenever my lanny uses lunge, whoever was riding in the mule harness remains mounted but is also permanently flying somehow

[thin lark]

Oh that is truly gross. Even in the tabletop I bet most people would make a face at that line of events.

[brisk snow]

Ew what

[cedar hill]

Is the only possible way for that to happen Torch + Thermal Charge?

In LT at least

[glad lotus]

Thermal lance, bristlecrown, engineer weapon, off the top of my head

[cedar hill]

Segment Knife I guess

[cedar hill]

None of those work

[glad lotus]

But on tabletop, I don't think you'd have to do retroactive overkill? You're supposed to roll all attacks, and then roll damage, I thought. So you'd know you have a crit and a hit, decide to expend thermal charge, and then roll the damage. (Which you do have to keep straight between the regular hit and the crit.)

[cedar hill]

Thermal Lance is a Cannon, bristlecrown is cqb, and Engineer weapon can't get Thermal Charge

[glad lotus]

*impact lance. Sorry, getting over a cold and things are still fuzzy in my brain. You're right on the other two, of course.

[cedar hill]

Combat Drill also works

[glad lotus]

How would Torch and combat drill do it? Doesn't this scenario need to be a multi-target melee attack?

[cedar hill]

Impact Lance doesn't work either because it doesn't have Overkill

[cedar hill]

Oh duh, yeah

So actually I don't think there's any way for that to come up, ever

There's no melee weapon that has the combination of "makes multiple attack rolls per attack" "has or can get Overkill" and "has or can take Thermal Charge" with just core stuff

[glad lotus]

Hm, yeah. Supermassive from Caliban can add overkill, but then you can't have thermal charge.

(And of course Caliban isn't on the table yet because Long Rim)

[cedar hill]

Same with Paracausal Mod

[brisk snow]

Yeah I’m not sure how you would be able to do it

[glad lotus]

FWIW, this is how I've handled it in Foundry and haven't heard complaints about it (that I can remember, at least).

[golden rover]

Love me some games that aim to break the never-ending cycle of exploiting and profiting from the least fortunate.

[glad lotus]

I absolutely commiserate with weird damage edge cases though, that was a huge hurdle implementing damage automation in Foundry.

[alpine sorrel]

Leader 3 + Engineer would do cause the issue -- anything where you can decide to add bonus damage after seeing hit/miss results.

[glad lotus]

Arg, yeah, Leader 3 makes it so any overkill melee weapon is a culprit. Same with OpCal, actually.

[cedar hill]

That's true

[tepid temple]

Oh rip my homebrew which broke Witchdice also breaks this

[alpine sorrel]

That probably would have been a better flow... I roll base damage up-front before making attack rolls. I think I actually inherited this opposite flow from witchdice because there you need to be able to toggle damage on and off at will so I roll all possible damage and then show the results based on what's checked.

[glad lotus]

Aha, yeah. Makes sense to re-use a flow you've done before.

[alpine sorrel]

Now considering what it would take to reverse it... I think I have e.g. ace look at the incoming damage when deciding when to barrel roll the attack to a miss

But that could look at weapon size instead

[glad lotus]

And there's certainly value in having pre-rolled results that you can use more or less of as needed. There were some folks who requested that for Foundry along the way, I just never decided to implement it. 😉

TIL technically the Ace is cheating. 😛

[young sorrel]

For Impact Lance, since Thermal Charge applies either to every attack or none, it should roll all attacks and give one check for "use Thermal charge" after which it should roll all damage

[lethal leaf]

So the Ace wouldn't Barrel Roll a grapple if it deals no damage?

[brisk snow]

I guess this is a little off topic but why does witchdice do it that way?

[alpine sorrel]

So you can toggle bonus damage on and off or attacks between miss/hit/crit and not ever have to reroll damage dice

[toxic badge]

~~obviously the solution is to roll damage for every possible combination of weapon tags & damage bonuses in the game for every attack, that way you can just look up the relevant value for the situation after the fact 🙃 ~~

[final mesa]

This is so fucking rad I also hope this happens. And I also hope the neurobiology education gets to continue to happen, neuroscience is so cool.

[alpine sorrel]

From some cursory airport-lobby scanning and poking at a refactor, the ace AI thing was actually the only place I found myself using the pre-rolled damage.

I'm going to take a crack at switching over to the sequence you suggested @glad lotus, ty

[glad lotus]

Good luck!

[young sorrel]

Bug report, Stabilizer Mod and Nanocomp act like they're unique even though they're not

[lethal leaf]

Check Paracausal.

[young sorrel]

Paracausal isnt in the game yet xD

[brisk snow]

maybe he's just being really meta

[hazy ferry]

Nah that's just the paracausal mod

Doing paracausal things

[brisk snow]

exactly

[glad lotus]

“– funny thing. See, right now, paracausal mod technically isn't even in the game yet. You’re using a mod that isn’t real, and yet it is! Don’t worry about it. RA’s like that. Just, here, know that because it will get added at some point, we’ve made it. That’s causality, and causality is a –"

[young sorrel]

This is cool, I never realized there was a custom IKWMH icon

[weak willow]

it looks like it's repurposed from Duelyst's Scion's First Wish

great sprite package

[young sorrel]

Bug Report: You can fire Integrated Weapon while under the downsides of bracing

[weak willow]

oh is that not supposed to happen

[young sorrel]

Integrated weapon is a free action, can't take free actions the turn after you brace

[weak willow]

makes sense

[young sorrel]

Bug Report: If Roland Chamber benefits an AOE weapon, the save or prone should affect all targets, not just one

Another bug report: Gunslinger die seems to bug out if you hit with an attack that also consumes I Kill with My Heart. You do get Gunslinger die procs for attacks that consume the Gunslinger die

[young sorrel]

...Tested this again and it did prone both of them, so might have been some inconsistency with when it triggers

[young sorrel]

All we have for now is the Parrycasual mod. If you say "Parry this, you filthy casual" to a Berserker when you shoot them, they don't benefit from Stampede Defense

[young sorrel]

Here's something I didn't know: In Lancer Tactics you can Overcharge and then shoot an Uncle Ordnance weapon, which you cannot do in normal Lancer, and comes up in some circumstances with Nuclear Cavalier

[tidal tulip]

do you mean overcharge skirmish?

[young sorrel]

I don't, in Lancer Tactics Overcharge isnt tied to an action, you cam Overcharge to get an extra quick and spend it later

Which is usually the same as how it works but specifically different where ordnance weapons are involved

[tidal tulip]

right, but Uncle is a free action attack. It should stop you from using that same gun again for anything tho

[young sorrel]

But what i mean is, you can Overcharge, get heat, fire an uncle weapon and benefit from nuclear Cavalier, then take your Overcharge action to do something else

Or o believe you could also Overcharge to shoot three ordnance weapons

[stable smelt]

that is indeed something you can't do in core.

[heady iris]

Huh
while reading the rules i thought overcharging only granted you a free action
Not that you had to follow through the free action as part of the overcharge

Understandably it would be hell for the user interface to implement that

[young sorrel]

Overcharge lets you take a quick action as a free action, but you have to take that quick action immediately as you Overcharge

It's part of the same action, so much so that if you're a Lich you can soul vessel both the overcharge heat and the heat from any weapon you might fire as part of the overcharge, since it counts as one instance of taking heat

[young sorrel]

Uh oh, dropped the payload into the backrooms

Take that! Triple finish!

[thin lark]

obscure... bug? Or perhaps non-optimal warning UI:
If in the mission editor you emit a trigger signal with no string context, it will silently fail.

• If this is meant to be 100% required, there should be a UI warning, as there is with other required fields.
• If you're meant to be able to say "trigger stuff, no context provided" that does not work

Even if you set up a trigger with no conditions on it, that isn't checking the incoming context for any particular string, that "Emit trigger signal" will never do anything, the trigger will not activate.

on the other hand, put anything at all into the text field, and it will work as expected, triggering all trigger signals that don't check for specific strings

[thin lark]

Unrelated to the above issue, how are we meant to apply any of the Unit effects such as Damage Unit or Grant Overshield to multiple units?

These effect types will accept a [Unit At] datatype, which allows us to specify a zone, but they'll only pick the first(or maybe last?) of the units in that zone to actually affect. It's not random either, seems deterministic which unit is chosen at least within the same trigger, so if you duplicate the Effect and have several they all apply to the same unit within the zone.

There is an [All Units At] datatype, but none of the unit-affecting Effects actually accept that datatype as a target, and I can't find a way to convert it to something they do take - or any way to do a for-each like structure in general, really.

[alpine sorrel]

Interesting, I haven't tried getting a single-unit effect to be run on a number of units, so yeah the tools probably aren't there right now. I'll put it on the to-do list and think about it.

[thin lark]

Thanks!

[toxic badge]

Something I really like about LT: since I control the whole squad, having one character get bullied/stunned/destroyed on 2nd structured doesn't feel nearly as bad as it would in tabletop play 🤔

[toxic badge]

I don't suppose you've got an autosave from this / know how to make it happen again?

[brisk snow]

What are yalls thoughts on some of the more support focused talents added in the supplements like house guard and such? Do you think you’ll try to add them at some point?

[toxic badge]

The current project is "100% of core rulebook or as close as possible given budget constraints" but nothing beyond that.
There's a lot of hopes and dreams for once that's done (mod support, supplement content, etc.) but nothing concrete yet.

[brisk snow]

Do y’all prefer hearing about bugs here or would you rather people just use the google form?

[toxic badge]

whatever works for you - I check this thread more often than the google form submissions, but either way is fine 👍

[young sorrel]

Remind me where in the filesystem that is?

[toxic badge]

Easiest way is to go to Options -> Data (top left) -> User Data Folder
The actual path (on windows) is something like C:/Users/[your username]/AppData/Roaming/LancerTactics/saves

[toxic badge]

yep, that's it! That autosave file gets saved at the start of every player turn. If you happen to send the payload into oblivion again, grabbing the autosave will help us figure out what's going on 👍

[young sorrel]

Got it 👍

I'm pretty sure enemy armor is affecting each separate damage type separately, here I fire a Rocket-Propelled Grenade while Overclock and Roland are active and deal only two damage

If you have Gunslinger 3 and Integrated Weapon and you fire an Auxiliary weapon that triggers I Kill with My Heart, the Integrated Weapon proc can also benefit from I Kill with My Heart even though the original attack should have depleted the Gunslinger die

[cedar hill]

Opened this and was very confused, then parsed what channel I was in lol

[young sorrel]

To be clear this is both not how it works in "normal" lancer nor how it should work in Lancer Tactics

[stable smelt]

oh that definitely shouldn't happen.

[smoky glacier]

i wouldn't suppose it's possible you just rolled minimum?

Oh, no, Overclock is fixed damage,

[alpine sorrel]

yeah it's plausible that stinker just slipped by me. thanks for the catch.

[young sorrel]

Tested this again, and yeah this happens every time, if you take this specific corner with a payload the payload will clip into the wall

[tepid temple]

Woag, Intangible implementation,,,

[teal flame]

mourning cloak

[torpid orbit]

Is skirmisher not implemented?

[thin lark]

It’s not finished yet in the build we have, probably because it messes with the action order and lancer tactics doesn’t differentiate between skirmish and barrage so I believe it was more complex to implement - but Olive did sound like she had a solution, so hopefully we’ll get it in an update soon?

I think the rest of the player facing stuff is slated for the next release, and then presumably NPC stuff after that…

Not sure though, I just read the channel a lot and guess.

[torpid orbit]

I had a weird idea for a challenge run. A community driven Nuzlocke challenge. People submit Lancers for my game and I try to get them to LL12, but permadeath is a thing

basically, some of you could submit ideas for lancer characters and ideas for builds. Then, for every 3 missions they survive they gain a license level.

the thing I need to know is what to do what to do when I have to replace casualties and what type of missions I need to do.

[brisk snow]

does centimane work right now? It doesn't seem to every apply the statuses when it crits

[torpid orbit]

if I made a Lancer Tactics Nuzlocke challenge...would any of you like to participate in it?

as in...submitting pilots or missions

[brisk snow]

sure

[torpid orbit]

the only thing is I am not sure I am comfortable accepting files from people, so I would have to build the pilots manually in order to get their info

[brisk snow]

what about compcon plaintext

[torpid orbit]

that is possible

though...can I copy and paste it into the game? Does that feature work?

[torpid orbit]

Olive, mind if I DM you something?

[thin lark]

Pilot files for this are transferred as json, which are plain text

[torpid orbit]

I havent owned this game for very long, so I dont know what is functional or not

[thin lark]

As far as I know there's no particular risk associated with those, and they can be attached to discord without problems for easy transfer. They're not nice to read, but they are human readable if you want to skim over them to make sure someone hasn't somehow shoved a virus in there, although I think that's implausible

[torpid orbit]

how do I export pilots?

[thin lark]

You can import them from compcon format, or open up the data folder (there's a helpful link to it in the options menu, the Data subheading) and go to pilots

[torpid orbit]

ah, I see. OK then

[thin lark]

They ought to look like this:

[torpid orbit]

I think I should probably ask Olive for permission before doing this

how would the missions go?

what are some good rules or challenges to go by?

[thin lark]

As you can see, it's pretty small, mostly plain text with some ID numbers that refer to other LancerTactics specific IDs, so it's relatively easy to check it over, I think.

[thin lark]

There's a save to avoid the statuses, check the log, they may have made the save. If you check the log and there isn't even a save being made when you crit with a nexus, then that's a bug that should be looked at I guess? Worth checking.

[alpine sorrel]

I know getting centimane 2 currently breaks the other two ranks in the public build. Should have a new build out next week with it fixed.

[alpine sorrel]

Sure

[alpine sorrel]

Yes. Json files are about as low risk as you can get and are safe to exchange. Worse that can happen is one crashing the game.

[torpid orbit]

I dmed

[torpid orbit]

what other rules could I make for the Nuzlocke challenge?

[hazy ferry]

You can only spend 1 repair per mech per scene?

[lethal leaf]

So you can never repair structure?

Except in an Everest?

[hazy ferry]

Or spend it once per mech per scene

Although the not repairing structure isn't all nonsensical

[torpid orbit]

I don't think that workds very well, cause some mechs will get f'd up and be unusuable. They can only get full repairs every 3 missions anyways

I was asking more for the missions, maps, and enemy compositions. I could just do random map random mission or just go down the list

maybe every tier I get to pick a different enemy, swithcing from warbois to Boulder company and so on

what level should the replacements be? Half of the current max LL? Average of the current party (woudlnt work for the first replacement.) Completely new at LL0?

[smoky glacier]

one full repair every 3rd mission is already killer, assuming a mission is 3-4 combats like usual

[torpid orbit]

No, I meant individual "missions" in lancer tactics, aka, sitreps

[final mesa]

Yeah, make sure you're differentiating between combats/maps and whole missions. 3 to 4 combats is gonna be tough, and could cause a mech to die. 3 missions would be brutal.

[torpid orbit]

3 sitreps == fullrepai

[brisk snow]

I think just having to make a new pilot and mech each time a mech gets destroyed would probably be enough initially

[final mesa]

Ah, yeah that works then.

[brisk snow]

And the 3 sitreps rule

[torpid orbit]

3 sitreps == 1 full repair for the whole team, and for every pilot, their active missions are tracked individually. Every 3 missions they get 1 LL

[final mesa]

I don't know how many characters could get through a minimum of 9 combats between full repairs.

[torpid orbit]

3 combats

[final mesa]

But it would be cool to see.

Yeah I get you I'm just musing on the other possibility now.

[brisk snow]

Wait so they have to go through 9 sitreps to level up?

[torpid orbit]

no, 3

[brisk snow]

Oh ok

[torpid orbit]

I'm thinking of starting with Warbois for Tier 1, Asset Mgmt Team for tier 2, and ending with Boulder company for tier 3, and maybe cycling more if I need to spend more time for getting the stragglers to ll12.

as for the maps and sitreps. I think this is what I will do. I will try to play every map, going from the top to bottom, and do the same for the combat sitreps. Then, once I have run out of missions, I cycle back to the beginning sitrep and continue. I skip the survive sitrep.

[young sorrel]

I thought I was doing pretty well with my 10 wins without a full repair but someone managed to get 20

[dense furnace]

I do love the announcement of elite enemies

I want to find a way to do that in foundry

[young sorrel]

It's so good

[proud dirge]

i love the idea of lancer nuzlocke

[golden rover]

Shieeet

[final mesa]

Is it a lancelocke, or a Nuzlance?

These are important considerations. They're importmanteaus.

[gritty spire]

what would be the rules?

[thin lark]

https://foundryvtt.com/packages/boss-splash

Mostly works on version 13, you need a macro instead of a button but it’s not a big deal, it is a one line macro

[thin lark]

Nuzlance sounds like a good name for the squad in general, wheras Lancelocke sounds more like a term for the whole process, to me

Regarding rules and opposition, you can also import new enemy groupings. Right now there’s not a wildly divergent amount of different NPCs or even NPC setups to be had, but I do recommend at least one mission against opponents where every single enemy is a veteran elite. It is hilariously fun and different, and probably a lot easier to run in Lancer Tactics than it would be with a GM

[dense furnace]

Thank my lord, they gift shall be used well

[thin lark]

Also, a pack that makes good use of Archers should probably exist.

[torpid orbit]

#1079952007915376711 message

[young sorrel]

You are already dead

[torpid orbit]

does anyone have any cool maps, enemy compositions or custom missions they would like to share?

[teal sundial]

I've got this one

[thin lark]

#1079952007915376711 message the Chewable Assortment, a preconfigured set of Elite Veteran foes, one of every type of NPC we have right now, each with random pilots and colours. Intended use is to open up the reinforcement pack and rearrange them at random each time they're used as well - there's currently no random sort function so I just do that by hand

reserve pack .jsons go into the data folder in the /reserves/ folder

[torpid orbit]

where is this folder? Is it installed somewhere in my PC? I dont see it in the folder with the executable

[thin lark]

Yes, it is somewhere on your PC.

Go to the options menu, then press the Data tab

Then click the big wide yellow button to open it, wherever it might be

That's where you put or find pilots, reserves, maps (which are in /custom/instant_action ) save files, and possibly more custom stuff

If you're using windows the data folder is probably something like %AppData%/LancerTactics, but there's a button that doesn't have to guess, so use the button to find it :)

[torpid orbit]

it works, thank you. What is this enemy comp? Oops, all veterans?

*elites

[torpid orbit]

can someone explain to me how the editor works? I have managed to add both allies and enemy NPCs, but I cant get the regular enemies to spawn in, along with the players.

I have also made a conversation, but it is not playing on mission start

[lethal leaf]

Did you include an ingress zone for the enemies?

[torpid orbit]

I think so? I have a bunch or red zones

[thin lark]

Did you set a trigger that triggers on combat start, then has separate effects which spawns the lancers and reinforcements, expanded to sitrep, maintaining a minimum op for value and respecting the activation cap? I’m pretty sure that’s what all the base sitreps do

If you want a conversation to play on mission start you also need to have something that triggers On mission start, with an effect to begin the conversation

[torpid orbit]

I see, do I need to set a trigger in order to make the players and enemy deploy?

I see a deploy lancers trigger, but not for the enemy

[thin lark]

deploy reinforcements

Then you specify which reinforcements, how many, where, etc

And yes, you need a trigger for everything you want to happen.

Including winning. I'm not sure if there is a 'default' win, even if you defeat all the reinforcements.

There's a default lose if all the player Lancer's mechs are destroyed, though

[torpid orbit]

how do I trigger victory, defeat, and also trigger a conversation when an NPC dies

[thin lark]

with the effects that do those things. I think victory and defeat are something like End Combat and then there's a toggle for if it's in victory or not

You can make a trigger for unit destroyed, and then have it use the effect that starts a conversation

If you want a good example to learn from, go study the Demon Artillery mission that Inconveniencestore linked earlier, they've used a lot of features pretty well

#1079952007915376711 message

[torpid orbit]

is there any tutorials or videos I can see?

is there a list of combat states I can see?

[thin lark]

Don't think there's any tutorials or videos yet. Make one, if you feel like it!

There's only about six? videos on the current version of Lancer Tactics at all, let alone fiddly stuff like the mission editor :)

[torpid orbit]

how can I deploy 4 lancers plus an allied npc? I seem to be capped at 3 players

[torpid orbit]

could someone help me with a custom map and sitrep? I dont understand the trigger system

[alpine sorrel]

It's on our list to make better learning resources because it's super hard to understand from just the game. Until we do the best way to learn might be to open up the tutorial in the map editor and picking through how it does things:

[young sorrel]

Why do Assaults do this?

No I don't want to fuel rod gun you, stop dancing in and out of my threat

[tidal tulip]

"bet chu cant hit me! bet chu cant!!"

[young sorrel]

I've seen Hornets do this too, just trying to annoy you into Overwatching them so they can weave

It's like they're self aware

[alpine sorrel]

It's a bug with the AI that keeps popping up where when they want to figure out where to stand they see that there's a unit where they are (them) so it gets slightly down-weighted. I've fixed it a few times but it happens in different ways.

In this case actually looks like it's like "oh good we control this zone, I can go elsewhere" not realizing that they'll lose the zone of it leaves.

[thin lark]

Eh, I’ve played a first person team shooter or two in the past. Totally realistic and believable behaviour. You want to shout “just stand on the point and stay there!” but nobody actually ever wants to do that :)

[young sorrel]

It's turn 1 of round 1 and somehow my Rocket-Propelled Grenade is unloaded. Do you not reload between scenes if you have Gunslinger 3?

...Oh wait I'm dumb, it moved automatically to get into range and Ordnance kicked in

[torpid orbit]

#1424499149394677760 message

Lancer Tactics Nuzlocke challenge is open, if anyone is interested in submitting a character to their doom the revolution, feel free to add them to the submission form.

[young sorrel]

My understanding is that the new patch will be coming out relatively soon and have the rest of the HA mechs, so I think it'd be best to wait until then.

[weak willow]

big Sal

[hazy ferry]

No Gilgamesh sadly

Would be a really good nuzlocke mech

[weak willow]

Emperor too

[hazy ferry]

Honestly I feel like both would be banned from a nuzlocke

Their ability to ignore or unreasonably reduce attrition would be massive in game

[young sorrel]

I actually don't agree, because I don't think it's attrition that would kill you in a nuzlocke, it's a sudden burst of damage

And Emperor (as well as Balor, the other frame that really resists attrition) are actually weak against a sudden burst of damage

[hazy ferry]

Attrition can absolutely kill you

[young sorrel]

It can after like 6 combats, but this is 3 combats per full repair

[young sorrel]

IMO the only way you can die in 3 combats is by getting bursted down

[stable smelt]

as described in its lore entry, napoleon is king.

[young sorrel]

You could definitely do something with a Brace build

Once we get Big Sal I'm planning to make a Paracausal Pinaka Monarch which i think will do excellently

[torpid orbit]

When?

[young sorrel]

You'd have to ask Olive for that

As a software developer myself I know that the error bars for software updates is give or take 200%, so it'll be in a week, give or take 14 days

[small panther]

Cannt believe next patch is in -7 days, Absolute Lich

[young sorrel]

It could have been 7 days ago, for sure

Unfortunately, those darned players kept finding bugs and asking for things

[fickle pecan]

oh no I got a sekhmet lock I think for blademaster 3 targeting

Also this session I couldn't get blind (from witch) to clear by stabilising

and I thought custom callouts weren't working but it was because instant action doesn't update changes to a pilot that's already in the lineup I think

[young sorrel]

That's intended I think, in base game "can only draw line of sight to adjacent spaces" isn't a condition, so there's no way to clear it other than letting it wear off

[fickle pecan]

Janky but sounds accurate yeah haha

definitely not a capital C condition true

[young sorrel]

But for some reason if you're blind you can still load an arcing round from Walking Armory and shoot someone just fine

I love Lancer

[weak willow]

https://tenor.com/view/mark-cuban-shark-tank-notes-taking-notes-remember-gif-15073512

[torpid orbit]

well, considering how the new patch is adding mechs we dont have access to yet people can still submit. We are starting at LL0 anyways, so if anyone wants to submit their build and pilot to the Lancer Nuzlocke challenge they are more than welcome to send in their LL0 build

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeDBsCjyeewpHpagNJv4_zHvFGMpstiwDFTcwG7H32CQiakVQ/viewform?usp=header

[weak willow]

What even competes with replaceable parts

From vanilla

[cedar hill]

Like from a "resistance to attrition" standpoint? Not much, really, except for Balor

[small panther]

Ghostweave fully passive hide-looping metalmark

[weak willow]

That's preventative, but not too shabby in the right circumstances maybe

Leans more into the "if I get shot once I'm losing a structure" kind of build

[final mesa]

I'm actually from the timeline where no bugs were found and it was released 5 days ago, the build SLAPS! Shame about how Iceland sank into the sea though.

[teal sundial]

~Worm, John "Wildbow" McCrae, 2013

[brisk snow]

Sekhmet causes a lot of soft locks right?

One time I got stunned from structuring while it was active and it wouldn’t let me end the turn for it, another time I got structured and destroyed Sekmet while it was active and then I couldn’t end the turn once I activated the Blackbeard there either

It is fun to let it pop off in a group of victims enemy combatants

[alpine sorrel]

If you have any autosaves from when those happened, would you mind sharing them? Dramatically helps with fixing them. You can find your autosave [like this](#1079952007915376711 message) — it saves at the start of every player turn.

[brisk snow]

I will see if I can go back and find them or recreate them, sorry. I need to get in the habit of that.

I sound like my worst customers lol

[alpine sorrel]

✌️ all good! The reports are helpful either way, an autosave just makes my job easier.

[hazy ferry]

You also hit invisible people 50% of the time so

I think its safe to say that vision is not necessary to attack

[little juniper]

Hello!

[young sorrel]

Bug report: If you fire a Main ranged weapon, choose a Walking Armoury charge, aim, and then cancel in the Walking Armory menu, it cancels the entire attack and consumes the quick action with no way to recover it

[young sorrel]

...Oh, i fired an Aux first from a Main/Aux when this happened, so that might have been why, since its technically possible to spend a whole quick just shooting the aux

[little juniper]

I just expirement with a very crazy build

[brisk snow]

What was the build

[elfin peak]

I think very strictly speaking you shouldn't be able to fire the aux mount without firing the main mount first? Though I could be mistaken.

[young sorrel]

You can fire an aux first in a main/aux if you want

[thin lark]

Does lancer tactics handle the case where you fire an aux to charge the last pip of IKWMH and then fire the other aux as a primary attack to trigger and benefit from that bonus damage?

[magic cave]

that's true, though, we're not sure if you can shoot the main weapon still if you do that

[worn tiger]

You can.

You declare "I'm going to skirmish with MAIN" and also select AUX as a secondary. Then you resolve the AUX first and the MAIN second.

[little juniper]

it was a tokugawa torch wielding genghis with sekmet, now it's a gengis with flight

[brisk snow]

Do things like auto stab and vanguard 1 work on the secondary attacks from arc projector?

[small panther]

They should, with the caveat that vanguard 1 is within range 3 of you, not the "place where the attack comes from", so it won't trigger unless the secondary target(s) are also within range 3

[brisk snow]

Second question, is the arc projector actually good?

[thin lark]

It’s a very selective area weapon that can hit lines, weave around allies, chain off drones if needed (especially enemy ones, though only a few NPC types use them and they’re not in LTactics yet) but it deals poor damage for a Heavy weapon

[brisk snow]

So the answer is yesnt

[thin lark]

The initial range is also a bit short. I don’t think it’s awful, but it’s probably only ok

It benefits quite a lot from the CQB talents. If you’re using it against a bunch of stuff inside range 3 of you, it’s good at that.

[smoky glacier]

"Is it good?" is a bit of a tricky question with Lancer, because there's only a handful of things that are truly questionable

I dont think the Arc Projector is going to top any "meta tier lists" or what have you, but it's a uniquely solid way to do selective close-range AOE.

[brisk snow]

Would it be worth putting autostab on tho?

[thin lark]

I also wouldn’t hate it with External Batteries for a ranged 10 zappy to chain to small packs of enemies, but it’s going to miss a lot more there

Hmm… yeah, probably

[smoky glacier]

Benefits more from Autostab than Opcal, if we're comparing to GMS options!

"Worth" is also kind of hard to answer in a vacuum because it's like... what else could you be using that CB on? What does your build want to be doing?

[young sorrel]

I think there are some cases where it would be useful, because enemies tend to clump up a lot in Lancer Tactics and right now a ton of enemies have 1/round resistance effects and 4 damage seems to be the threshold where they'll use them

So you could use it to eat a bunch of Hunker Downs

[thin lark]

Also, uniquely on a Manticore, it is SO MANY small heat triggers for DotTotEoR

[young sorrel]

True, but I actually don't think that's a good thing, you want to drag out the core active for as long as you can to make use of the halved heat costs

[thin lark]

If you have enough targets in short range to be hitting with it, and they’re all going to take 3 or 6d6 Ap Energy damage I’m happy with using it up then.

I agree you might not want to attempt to trigger it as fast as possible, but if you’re already at 3 or 4 and there’s a few targets near each other it’s perfect for triggering the blast when -you- want instead of when someone Invades you

[smoky glacier]

also, if your build primarily relies on 1 effects, the resistance won't do that much for you right?

[young sorrel]

True, but I wouldn't want to dedicate my heavy to that, since presumably shooting my heavy (with or without overcharge) is what I'm going to be doing the rest of the time with my core active

[thin lark]

Ok, but, you’re dedicating your heavy slot to it because you want to be a vicious close range area brawler, and the core power triggering fast in that instance is great for that

[brisk snow]

I’m working on a combined arms manticore and the core power triggering fast was a bonus

I’m not sure if I want it to use beckoner and smite or not. They both slap but idk if I want to put points into systems and the recoil is a thing. Normally I wouldn’t care about the recoil too much but I was thinking about that lancerlocke thing

But if no beckoner then id have to figure out how to get it into range

Hm.

[weak willow]

Plasma thrower manticore isn't combined arms but it is awesome

[brisk snow]

I’m mostly just tired of plasma thrower tbh. It’s very good, I just don’t want to

I do kind of want explosive vents though

Feel like stabilizing in front of an enemy would feel less painful with that

For the manticore

[final mesa]

I like the Toku annihilator as well, though it is also low damage and only a main. But it's pretty cool.

[brisk snow]

I liked it but didn’t realize you HAD to target everything around your target until I was in a mission with it. Toku is cool tho, big burn numbers are sexy

[young sorrel]

I also think that running a superheavy on a 2 mount frame in a game without Armament Redundancy is asking for trouble

[little juniper]

silly question but the game will only include base book frames right

[young sorrel]

That's the plan for the moment, if it sells really well they might add more

The demo version had Kobold, so who knows

[thin lark]

I’m hoping for any mod support, so we can put other stuff in it

[glad lotus]

It is, which is why plasma thrower manti pretty much always takes armament redundancy improved armament first.

[weak willow]

why need second gun when

big gun and CASTIGATETHEENEMIESOFTHEGODHEAD do trick?

[smoky glacier]

(Armament Redundancy is a System from the Dustgrave module which protects Weapons from being destroyed by Structure damage; it is primarily intended for Superheavy builds)

[little juniper]

what's kinda ffunny is since my main three mechs aren't in this, and two might not be, i'm stuck learning about mechs I only tangentially know about

[glad lotus]

Oh, that's not the thing I meant then. Improved Armament, the GMS core bonus that gives you another mount.

[brisk snow]

bug: you can't attack or overwatch with the impact lance if it would target multiple units

I was using a toku with all the threat extension tech for a threat 7ish impact lance but it won't usually let me actually spear multiple targets

[young sorrel]

New PB

[young sorrel]

Also I might be a agimaxxing believer, the only pilot who managed to not go through every single repair was my 16 Evasion Metalmark

[cedar hill]

Turns out not getting hit is pretty good actually

Though Kai did tone down some of the enemy Accuracy I think

[small panther]

I thought the rebakes weren't implemented yet ?

But yes rebakes make dogetanking not only possible but a viable strategy, speaking from experience.

[young sorrel]

Question, under what circumstances does it give you the option to Brace?

I'm pretty sure you're supposed to be able to Brace whenever a hit would structure you, but I got hit by an assault's combat knife and had a reaction available and it didn't give me the option (and of course I rolled a 1 on that structure and got stunned)

[lilac anchor]

not just structure, but any hit that does more then 1/2 your HP

[young sorrel]

Well here's an autosave, if you can glean any useful information from it. It happened twice in one combat, the second time on my Tokugawa

[cedar hill]

I was under the impression that the rebake was what was already in the game

[proud dirge]

no rebake came out after the base game npcs were implemented

[young sorrel]

Is there any way someone could tell without looking at the NPC stats?

[proud dirge]

the rebake npcs will get implemented in the future, probably 1.0

[thin lark]

Well for a start Assaults don’t have reliable in the rebake. That’s pretty noticeable :)

[brisk snow]

what is rebake

[young sorrel]

Okay well in that case it's definitely not implemented

"Good heavens, a drone"

Turns out, the humble bait drone is very effective

[proud dirge]

kai tave, someone who's written a lot of ancillary lancer stuff, is rewriting the crb npcs with adjusted abilities and a more modern design philosophy

[cedar hill]

Also addressing some of the pain points associated with the NPCs and giving some of them stronger identities

[brisk snow]

so assualts can't just reliable squishies to death?

[cedar hill]

Broadly speaking, yeah

[brisk snow]

neat

[cedar hill]

And to be clear, it's an unofficial personal project. It's fully third-party

[brisk snow]

moreoptions are more options

[lethal leaf]

The CRB has reliable on three characters' base kits: Archer, Assault, and Rainmaker. Kai changed it to Archer, Operator, and Sentinel.

[cedar hill]

Sentinel's a fun choice

[brisk snow]

makes semse

sense

[small panther]

Reaction attackers get to not have their reactions not matter sometimes

[lethal leaf]

Also, the Rebake Sentinel gains Vanguard 3 when they're in Eye of Midnight mode.

[brisk snow]

scary lol

[small panther]

Which slaps btw

[lethal leaf]

Also, even with Reliable, the Operator still has a lass bullshit gun.

[brisk snow]

i think ive only seen eye of midnight used once so far

[lethal leaf]

It has regular scaling, not three attacks.

[mild jay]

No weapon in the rebake scales by getting multiple attacks at higher tiers, iirc

There’s still some multi attackers but they have that to the same degree at all tiers and are designed around it

[burnt frigate]

Yeah to clarify, Olive reached out to me because she feels the rebake would be a good fit for Lancer Tactics in terms of ease of implementation as well as helping smooth over some elements that may arise by turning Lancer from a tabletop game where a human GM controls the opfor to a video game where AI is doing it

She posted a couple of very extensive updates to the kickstarter page outlining her decision to do so

The rebake ISN'T official Massif Press stuff, it is 100% my own and therefore unofficial, to add additional clarification

Olive's position, to briefly and perhaps inexpertly summarize, is that Lancer Tactics has already staked out a framework of not slavishly following the core rulebook 1-1 in a bunch of ways already (i.e. the differences in how Brace works) to make things easier to implement and more enjoyable as a video game, and as such she doesn't feel as beholden to trying to make Lancer Tactics a roundabout Lancer Automated Tabletop Sim

[alpine sorrel]

Correct, I haven't done any rebake implementation yet. When I get to doing a NPC pass (soon!) I'm going to be implementing them as rebakes. More reading of the thinking about it: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wickworks/lancer-tactics/posts/4379409

[alpine sorrel]

it also skips giving the brace option if like you're at 1 hp and taking 3 damage; if getting resistance wouldn't stop you from getting structured.

[young sorrel]

It definitely would have prevented the structure in this case, I was at 6 HP and took 8

[lethal leaf]

Do you have an autosave?

[alpine sorrel]

yep it's up there!

[young sorrel]

I posted it here

[alpine sorrel]

ty, we'll take a look at it

[little juniper]

Hey! I'm planning to work on my own map

My idea is a small, dusty town. I'm thinking of calling it Ghost Town Gunfight

[brisk snow]

I too love fallout new vegas

[gusty agate]

Potential Bug: an enemy with 1 hp started their turn and died to Balor's scouring swarm. Then another enemy did their turn immediately even though I should have acted next

[young sorrel]

This had been happening a few times and finally remembered to copy the autosave right after it happened, here I load a Walking Armory shock round in and don't get the effect

Been testing out Balor in just a regular attrition gauntlet and I'm really impressed, I'm only at 5 wins but I've been able to regen through a ton of damage and am still at full structure stress and repairs

[young sorrel]

Immortal, the Balor trait that makes it heal its HP between fights for free, isn't implemented

[torpid orbit]

wait, what are the differences between regular lancer and lancer tactics? The brace is different? How so?

[small panther]

Being asked "do you want to brace ?" every single time you are attacked on any of four mechs simultaneously would be wayy too much spam, so it only gives the option to brace under certain conditions (iirc, more than half your hp at a time or a hit that structures you)

[small panther]

But also check this out, it's a good read and super interesting

[young sorrel]

It's a pretty common problem for lots of digital versions of games people play in person, abilities that let you react to anything that in person you can just say "hey I use this thing" but on digital they need to ask "do you want to use this thing?" every time it could use the thing

[heady iris]

Uuuuuuhhhh
i had "i kill with my heart" trigger 2 times

One with my 1st hand Cannon
And then the prompt for the bonus damage triggered again for my integrated aux mount
Which was indeed another hand cannon xD

[weak willow]

Known bug I believe

[heady iris]

Ok if that's the case I won't upload the save o7

[toxic badge]

I don't think we have a good save file for this yet, so if you still have it and don't mind uploading that would be quite helpful!

[small panther]

More data is always better than no data I think; worst case scenario, they just don't download the file

[young sorrel]

I can confirm that this happens every single time, if you have Integrated Weapon and IKWMH and lead with an aux it'll always let you do it twice

[young sorrel]

It goes a long way towards making Aux spam builds competitive with heavies

-Signed, definitely not a Tokugawa

Managed to get a clip of firing a main weapon with shock rounds and the shock round effect just not going off

[brisk snow]

Can you use the hide action in the smoke charge aoe?

[young sorrel]

I'm pretty sure thats a point of contention even in normal Lancer, I would personally allow it but I'm neither the head judge of Lancer nor coding Lancer Tactics xD

[brisk snow]

I’m all for yelling “NINJA VANISH” and then hiding in the smoke lol

Mostly because it’s like your whole turn and you’re inside of soft cover so…

[cedar hill]

For tabletop Lancer, yes. It's an area of soft cover

[brisk snow]

Does it work here? I’ll test when I get home

[flint portal]

yeah its a zone of soft cover, its very much intentional that you can and should be able to hide in it

[alpine sorrel]

Yep it does

[brisk snow]

Cooooool

[young sorrel]

Hooray

[burnt frigate]

Confirming, hiding in smoke shouldn't ever be contentious, it's like explicitly intended

The only thing to note is, per the CRB rules (dunno if this will be strict 1-1 for Tactics) you have to be COMPLETELY in the soft cover zone to hide, no half-in half-out

enough to totally conceal you, but soft cover is only
sufficient if you are completely inside an area or zone
that grants soft cover – many systems and talents
that grant soft cover or plain old obscurement just
don’t provide enough to hide behind!```

[young sorrel]

"An area or zone" seems pretty cut and dry

[burnt frigate]

yeah basically the thing that you cannot hide with is stuff like "this talent gives me Soft Cover" and also any of the wall-type systems which grant people soft cover for attacks crossing the line, like Stasis Barrier etc

[young sorrel]

Makes sense

[brisk snow]

So Jericho could work, but not something like mag shield

[burnt frigate]

if Jericho is big enough to totally conceal your mech, yeah, mag shield doesn't work regardless

[brisk snow]

So would mech size not matter as long as you’re entirely within the area? Like a Barbarossa should be able to hide in smoke if it’s entirely in the zone

[burnt frigate]

Yeah for soft cover areas the only thing that matters is "are you completely inside of it y/n"

[brisk snow]

Ok cool

Sry I guess that was more of a general rules question tbh

[young sorrel]

Is there any way to view the current HP of a drone?

[torpid orbit]

is there any lore for the default enemies? Like...Asset MGMT Team? Boulder Company? And Warbois?

[alpine sorrel]

Should be able to mouseover it and see a bar below

[alpine sorrel]

Boulder company is Karrakin-aligned from the field guide, beyond that nope

[thin lark]

Even more contentious is whether line of sight drawn -through- a smoke grenade should give soft cover. I've always said yes, because there's rules as written and then there's avoiding massive ludonarrative dissonance, and also because it's the point of smoke grenades and so on and so forth. I -think- Lancer Tactics does this at the moment, but I'm not sure. I've seen people arguing in both directions.

[young sorrel]

Ahh, okay you can see it as long as you're really zoomed in

I can't screencap my mouse, but at this zoom level it displays

And at this zoom level it does not

[alpine sorrel]

hm! seems like a bug

[young sorrel]

...The thing I was trying to test is what happens when drone units get hacked, because it shows the icon for "took X heat" even though drones don't have a heat cap and so I'm 90% certain take heat as energy damage

[alpine sorrel]

they for should should

[young sorrel]

...But there was a bombard in this scene and so let's just say the drone didn't get the opportunity to be hacked

[alpine sorrel]

haha

[young sorrel]

I've definitely seen the enemies hack a drone before but i'm not sure what would cause them to do it, and I can't think of a way to apply heat to an ally that I could test with

Maybe burst launcher from a pegasus?

New amazing mech name

[small panther]

If we have invading allied implemented and the smite system, you could try sear I think

[torpid orbit]

is it possible to move the payload twice in one turn with the same character?

[young sorrel]

Well yes, but actually no

(You can, but the sum of those movements can't exceed that character's speed)

I barely scraped through scene 13 with the squad I've been working on. We're really low on repairs now but we're all still alive

(Bug Report) Bombard ignoring Ordnance vs my Tokugawa with the power of positive thinking 😭

[brisk snow]

How are you getting through so many combats without a full repair? Maybe I just need to hide more

[young sorrel]

I've put a fair bit of effort into optimizing this team, I'm running
Asura Andromeda Death's Head for DPS
Gandiva Metalmark to snap hornets out of the sky in a single shot (with backup assault rifle for grunts and 7 speed for payload running)
Nanocomp Impaler Balor to tank and regen HP and ruin Berserker's days
Loading Loop Tokugawa for AOE damage

And I rip through opfors extremely fast

So it's not hiding, its a combination of everyone on the team having artillery range (other than Balor who has HMG) and at least 2d6+3 damage from their heavy mount, just killing anything that gets close.

[brisk snow]

Ah the xcom 2 strategy: don’t let the opfor have a turn

Alternatively, death is the best cc

[young sorrel]

Yes. That's a big part of why I'm running Death’s Head in an Attrition challenge, no other frame can inflict dead as well as it can. It can do things like one tap the Elite Witch from Boulder Squadron before it gets a single turn, thanks to Nuc Cav Opcal Andromeda doing 4d6+3

[brisk snow]

False: manticore can inflict dead more effectively. All you have to do is castigate in the middle of the team

Then everyone’s dead

[young sorrel]

That's not very conducive to surviving Attrition though

[brisk snow]

No it is not

Wouldn’t monarch be comparable?

[young sorrel]

In my previous attempt I was running Hacktuga instead of Balor but the passive HP Regeneration is absolutely broken

[young sorrel]

No, Death’s Head gets a 1/round free reroll

That's what allows me to forgo Autostab and get Opcal+Superior By Design and still hit basically every time

[brisk snow]

Fair, I was thinking maybe the aoe on pinaka might push it over the edge but probably not since it’d be less consistent

[young sorrel]

I was using Pinaka Monarch before instead of Tokugawa, but so many of the Frontline enemies have damage resistance of some sort I was often plinking for like 3 damage. I'm going to try it again once we get the rest of the HA frames and Paracausal Mod

[brisk snow]

Looking forward to iskander being a thing

Also big sal

[toxic badge]

Sorry, I'm catching up on old messages - there's a known issue already fixed for the next build between centimane and mimic gun, but other than that afaik centimane should be working 👍
(I'm not sure if that's in addition to or superseded by what olive said about centimane 2 causing problems 😓)

[alpine sorrel]

Hey y'all, I'd love to gauge temperature for an idea: we had the thought to experiment with having mechs automatically destroy visual doodads on the map while moving around; stuff like a mech walking onto a park bench or potted plan automatically turning them to rubble.

This idea led to thinking about size 2+ units likewise destroying some more substantial setpieces like soft-cover trees; it feels a little odd for a barb to walk through a size-1 forest and the trees all being chill with it, untouched by its passage.

I know the tabletop doesn't do this and that Lancer isn't simulationist so thinking along these lines is ultimately a dead end, but we're already doing more advanced stuff regarding terrain destruction like being able to carve out canyons in the ground with the apoc cannon. Would the rule of cool outstrip the nerf that this gives size 2+ units in them potentially wrecking cover for their allies?

An alternative might be to just visually alter the trees in some way but not change their gameplay mechanics e.g strip their leaves or something.

[boreal dust]

either sound fine to me

[weak willow]

1. An optional setting?
2. visual-only could be good?
3. maybe only apply to little details like park benches and other non-terrain pieces

[alpine sorrel]

👍 noted for 2 and 3, but our [default stance against design settings](#1079952007915376711 message) hedges out 1

[glad lotus]

I think it would be cool and flavourful! If you're concerned about balance, I also think visual only is a good compromise.

[hazy ferry]

I think there could be a strategic purpose for it that would make it interesting

But it would need to be told to the player before they destroy their cover

[alpine sorrel]

oh communication is a good point

[teal flame]

you could always just make the soft-cover “rubble” still provide soft cover

[boreal dust]

ooo,
wandering into a scene, seeing no mechs but destroyed tree/benches as clues that mechs were there or are there but hiding

[teal flame]

a bunch of broken trees still works

[final mesa]

That sounds so incredibly sick. Absolutely make the Mechs feel big and powerful by crushing stuff. That's why Pacific Rim 1 is so good.

[flint portal]

Personally i think it being visual only would be good

[mild jay]

If something like XCOM second-wave options were in planned scope already (which, I gather from the aforementioned stance about design settings doesn't seem like it is), having a mechanical effect seems like it'd fit the bill for those

[alpine sorrel]

I'm not familiar, what's XCON second-wave options?

[mild jay]

Sounds like the kind of thing that isn't necessarily a buff or debuff but could change how you play a bit

[flint portal]

The problem you run into automatic destruction of things is that it would potentially lead to people wondering why certain things get destroyed while moving through them, but also i think stuff like a barb destroying soft cover forests would also be a nerf for other characters.

I do think that terrain being more "responsive" even if it is only visual would go a long way tho, like mech footprints on the ground, buildings getting dents in them if a mech is pushed into them even if it doesn't destroy it, that sort of thing

Also feels like trees for example changing their model when a mech goes through them would also be things you could apply to say

a razor swarm

going through them

visually I mean

[brisk snow]

I think it would be cool visually either way, I don’t know if it would be a nerf mechanically. Then again it would affect the opfor too

[mild jay]

They're options when starting a campaign that alter some of the mechanics, like affecting how flanking and crits work, or making the angle units attack from matter for cover (for both player and enemy units). Not necessarily difficulty sliders but they add factors to consider

You can use them on successive playthroughs to keep things fresh

[flint portal]

Making sort of dent in the ground when a mech is knocked back also could be cool for example

OH actually additional thing, if this made it in, where would this leave Juggernaut?

As that's the default "move and destroy things in your path" talent and it comes with a cost

[toxic badge]

Thanks for the autosave! Unfortunately, it looks like this is from the end of the combat. Autosaves don't record the flow of previous events, only the current state of the most recent player turn, so there's nothing for us to work with here. It is quite a collection of npc wrecks, though! 😄

I guess there's a general PSA in order for those submitting autosaves - it's best if you can pause the game as soon as you notice a bug and grab the autosave file (move it or rename it or whatever) before anything else happens. Thanks again to everyone submitting them, they make debugging much faster and less painful! 🙏 👍 🫡

[young sorrel]

In my opinion, if a Barbarossa can destroy trees and terrain just by walking over it, that raises the question of why it can't just step on a size 1/2 mech to kill it and why its Improvised Attack does the same amount of damage as that of a Dusk Wing.

[young sorrel]

Ahh, alright good to know.

[tepid temple]

Eh, IMO it doesn't fit the vibe of Lancer, where mechs are military machines still subject to the environment, rather than gargantuan colossi that domineer it. Trees give you cover because you still haven't outscaled the natural world, and urban warfare is still a deadly affair rather than an exercise in being a bull in a china shop. Does that make sense?

[young sorrel]

I agree with this, and puts it into more concise words than I could have

[alpine sorrel]

Mhmm mhmm I hear that but also I'm looking at this screen in LT and these bigger mechs are kinda domineering the treeline. That is more of the fantasy of the big bois, even in lancer... and in LT we've had no choice but to pick some relative literal scales of things and the trees ain't looking too good

[alpine sorrel]

This is the "lancer isn't simulationist and ultimately this line of thinking is ultimately a dead end" that I was referring to. This thing here is just a potential splash of taste for flavor

[young sorrel]

Overall, I'm indifferent towards the idea.

Sidenote: Here's how you survive 16 scenes without a full repair, you hit the opfor with a Neverending Rain of Fire

Alright, and was able to confirm that drones do properly take heat as energy damage

RIP hive drone, thank you for tanking two Impale Systems for me

This is also why I have a dedicated Evasion tank with massive speed, so Escort missions are over on the first turn of the third round

[lethal leaf]

How do you keep the enemy from contesting the payload?

[young sorrel]

Puppet systems on Balor, Nuc Cav Opcal Andromeda on DH

Also Metalmark is speed 7 so the enemies struggle to keep up with its movement

Bug Report: If you hit an enemy that's Grappling you with Puppet Systems, nothing happens, they don't even take heat

[young sorrel]

...Here's a funny interaction: If you damage yourself (done here by hacking an adjacent enemy with Eject Power Cores), you play both your "hit an ally" quip and your "was hit by an ally" quip, both targeting yourself.

Let's GO

[alpine sorrel]

got the patchnotes drafted up for it already 🙂

[young sorrel]

Hooray!

Also, just saw this and wanted to mention that I'm really excited for it, Eld's maps are super impressive.

[heady iris]

I agree
Now that the system is moving from a table top to a videogame it's expected there to be more interactions to consider.
And I think seeing trees and minior map soft cover elements be destroyed by 2+ size mecks is cool and will give them a more intimidating presence.

To not make it unbalanced for smaller mechs making use of cover I'd say that hard cover granting entities shouldn't be affected even if stepped on

My thinking is that softcover is very easy to obtain through traits talents and systems
Especially for smaller mechs who often have it incorporated in their kit.
While I'd be bummed if an enemy walks over me and destroys my hard cover system i spent system points on

[smoky glacier]

firmly in the "visual only" camp, personally

it sounds like a really wonderful bit of visual feedback / Polish Detail, but rubs me the wrong way as a mechanical change?

[heady iris]

In my experience being big in lancer was always cool on papaer but then you can't move as easily, you can't fit through anything and you're always a big exposed target easier to hit
Honestly our big boys could use a tiny buff and some love

[thin lark]

I think being big should matter more. I’m all for trees getting squashed. I’d be fine if size 3 mechs started crushing small amounts of terrain or small buildings just to make flat places to stand, honestly

[small panther]

Part of me thinks that could be its own category of bark trigger ("I meant to do that"/"Trust the process guys, TRUST THE PROCESS !")

[teal flame]

could just be a generic “self-damage” one

[sand goblet]

If larger mechs were to automatically destroy terrain that would significantly devalue the already-undervalued terrain destruction options that you have to pay for

[teal sundial]

I think an aesthetic change for objects having been knocked into/stepped on would be a massive bonus feel-wise + I think it'd be pretty intuitive for players to understand (ofc it'd depend on how the environment model is changed but the enviro design has been very readable so far)

[torpid orbit]

After a brutal mission where some lancers heroically lost their lives on the field of battle, slots are now open for pilots for the Lancer Tactics Nuzlocke challenge:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdQeTU5HaNUN1WMZcxOFyLObNCEYDctFpT3DQLKHa2YVCSEyA/viewform?usp=dialog

Pilots can submit their pilots here in the V2 google submission form and check out our thread:

#1424499149394677760 message

@heady iris in case you might be interested

I seem to have a problem. I need to replace the current "Dead Pilots" (mechs destroyed) with replacement pilots, but every time I click on them it tries to get me to repair their destroyed mechs instead of removing them. And I cant really replace them with a new team cause if I do a full repair it defeats the purpose of the challenge run I am doing

[young sorrel]

Yeah you can't swap out pilots and mechs during a mission

[torpid orbit]

Well, that changes things, cause now I have to run the next combat with 2 pilots

[young sorrel]

Honestly I would just abandon the mission and start from scratch with the new pilots

[brisk snow]

I think you would kinda just get caught in a death spiral without swapping in the new pilots

[torpid orbit]

I think for the sake of fairness we need to not count this for leveling up

[brisk snow]

That’s fair

[torpid orbit]

hypothetically, if I had to do a full repair every mission, what modifiers could I place on the enemy team to make this balanced?

[young sorrel]

What I think you should do is just call off the mission if anyone dies

which I think seems reasonable, you wouldn't go through more fights if one of your allies was killed

so if anyone dies you start from 0 wins again but get a full repair

[weak willow]

more veterans/elites and less grunts makes it harder

i changed a single grunt sniper to a veteran one and the difficulty of a custom OpFor shot through the roof

[thin lark]

You can also just raise the reinforcement /activations cap, that lets the OpFor deploy more things at once, making for a much tougher encounter.

150% reinforcements and deploy cap basically means the enemy ends up with twice as many activations as you, and maintains that through the mission.

[torpid orbit]

so tweak that to x1.5?

[smoky glacier]

I feel that!
my perspective is that "can't use many forms of soft cover" doesn't exactly seem like a buff when you're already struggling to get cover and avoid getting hit, yknow?

[weak willow]

when given the option i will always go for size 1 mechs

if there was a way to make Monarch size 1 (and keep Divine Intervention) I'd do it

[small panther]

Monarch and Viceroy are so impossibly different you implying anything like that hurts me on a spiritual level.
Also, if it was size 1 and had that same cracked statline, it would pretty much have no downside anymore

[torpid orbit]

I dont mind the difference in sizes mechanically, lorewise I'd prefer if the size 1 mechs where the size of gundams in-universe

[weak willow]

right that's my point exactly, size 2/3 is a downside

[young sorrel]

I mean it kind of is. You also ignore terrain that's smaller than you, so you can walk right over size 1 obstacles that you'd otherwise have to go around.

[weak willow]

for some reason Size 3 doesn't ignore terrain

at least in LT

[thin lark]

It’s an artefact of the Barbarossa being so slow, I think. Try making a speedy Monarch that also has size 3, and it should be a lot better. It is supposed to let you move through terrain but not end overlapping it

[weak willow]

i did try a size 3 Lancaster and (aside from doing neither any damage nor tanking worth mentioning) while it was better than Barb it still got stuck on a lot of terrain pieces

i used 3 dams map

[thin lark]

Maybe I’ll test it later. A custom map with some different size 2 terrain obstacles would be a good test case…

[brisk snow]

I was wondering if size 3 was supposed to get caught on stuff so easily

[weak willow]

you'd feel like it should be the opposite right

[brisk snow]

I just thought it was Barbarossa being Barbarossa but then it’s like “hang on I’m a size 2 and I can’t squeeze around this dam wall?”

When I tried with drake

[glad lotus]

"Feel the burn!", for all the manti/toku stans.

[glad lotus]

Drive by suggestion from someone who hasn't read your full challenge rules: abandoned mission counts as 1/2 a level, so if it happens twice to one character they get to level up?

[final mesa]

My dream of having all my pilots yelling at themselves, ruined.

[young sorrel]

Do High-Stress Mag Clamps do anything in Lancer Tactics?

[alpine sorrel]

eliminate the extra movement it takes to climb

so, still strictly worse than the lannie's cables which do the same thing

[brisk snow]

Do you have to activate the cables?

Or is it just a passive, basically

[alpine sorrel]

for their primary effect of dragging things around, but they also have a passive

I'm open to cheap ideas to give the mag clamps some love

[brisk snow]

I couldn’t get the dragging around thing to work but I guess it was an Everest trying to drag another Everest

[young sorrel]

I'm pretty sure high-stress mag Clamps allow you to do things like end your turn on a wall, but that would presumably be hard to implement

[alpine sorrel]

yeah precisely

it would be like a weird variable-height flying thing that ends under weird conditions

[brisk snow]

Resistance to fall damage?

Wouldn’t make sense for flying units but it’d be weird for a flying unit to have high stress mag clamps anyway

[tepid temple]

I still don't think the CWS is meant to give actionless climbing ignorance

[alpine sorrel]

?

[tepid temple]

Yeah I think the idea was is that other characters could use a deployed cables to go up a wall like a rapple

It's hard to tell because the system is, well, clunky rules-wise

[alpine sorrel]

"this is lancer on simulationist design philosophy... don't let it happen to you, kids"

[tepid temple]

Unironically

[alpine sorrel]

Maybe I should just conveniently drop that sentence from LT

to let mag clamps do something unique

well, besides bioplating

[tepid temple]

Maybe you could drop the whole system Okay my vendetta against it is a bit unjustified when my players have never used it

[young sorrel]

For Mag Clamps, another thing you could do is make a character count as being at a higher elevation as long as they're adjacent to a wall, so you can benefit from Tactician 2 (which is the main reason you'd want to stick to a wall anyways)

[tepid temple]

I'm not a Rules-Understander but I do think "can use" is an operative phrase there and you should atleast pay the quick action tax to get rid of the speed penalty, rather than it just being a stat stick that grants mag clamp's effects on top of everything else

Lancer Corebook release Abbs didn't have everything figured out but I genuinely don't think he would have made mag clamps so redundant a system like that

[cedar hill]

One thing that Mag Clamps does that Cable Winch doesn't is let you crawl on ceilings and if you get Immobilized you don't immediately fall

[young sorrel]

I mean mag Clamps in base lancer lets you do things that cable winch doesn't (climb upside down on a ceiling, for example, or end your turn on a wall)

[young sorrel]

True but I imagine that would be an absolute nightmare to implement into Lancer Tactics

[cedar hill]

Whether or not that's useful in LT is a different story

[alpine sorrel]

which are things that would requires a big overhaul of the movement system that I'm very reluctan- exactly

[cedar hill]

Yeah you gotta build for the game you're making

[alpine sorrel]

for the sake of just a lil 1sp guy

[cedar hill]

What system has given you the most grief, Olive?

From an implementation standpoint

[young sorrel]

...can you make it up to DH1 by having Tracking Bug ignore invisibility?

[tepid temple]

You can but those are like, second-order effects from the rules text of mag clamps, and so I don't think they're meant to be the primary differentiator or justifier of them over the cable winch

[cedar hill]

There's not really a difference in "primary order" and secondary order" effects in Lancer. There's just effects

[young sorrel]

Just to hazard a guess, Tesseract

[alpine sorrel]

oh right!! thanks for reminding me, I was going to finish [this tier list](#1079952007915376711 message) for today's update post

[young sorrel]

Just to make sure, this is "tier list of how hard they are to implement"?

[alpine sorrel]

exactly

[young sorrel]

Also... today's update post?
👀

[toxic badge]

Just accidentally discovered that you can grapple someone and then puppet systems them to get a free ride
The imagery of a goblin riding a sentinel like a cowboy on a bull at a rodeo is wonderful, I love lancer

[young sorrel]

I'm curious, what was the one system that was a massive pain for all the C ranks?

I'm guessing... fade cloak, Sisyphus, Throughbolt Rounds, The Barbarossa core active, Tlaloc, Reinforced Cabling?

[brisk snow]

I’m guessing combat drill’s overkill was annoying

[young sorrel]

Ahh

Yeah that would make sense

[cedar hill]

That shouldn't work, as Puppet Systems is involuntary movement

[toxic badge]

I thought grapple / immobilized only prevents voluntary movement?

[alpine sorrel]

on thinking about it for a second, I think the grapple should break

like they were rammed

so they move but not with you

this emoji has never been more apt::

though like

what if I didn't fix that, would it be so bad

maybe it gets shuffled to the bottom of the bug list, falls off the back of a truck

happens all the time

[cedar hill]

It doesn't stop involuntary movement on you, and grapples only mirror voluntary movement

[toxic badge]

oh, right right 🤔

[cedar hill]

Involuntary movement being mirrored in grapples would be a pretty sweeping change, yeah. But I do get the sentiment lmao

[alpine sorrel]

oh no, this is a one-off where I counted puppet systems as voluntary (but controlled by the opponent) in order to get overwatch and stuff to trigger correctly

[cedar hill]

Gotcha

Goblin and Lanny kinda make sense from an implementation standpoint as being headaches

Symbiosis and Lanny's repair traits especially

Not to mention license gear

[young sorrel]

One thing I'm curious about, is it intentional that the Asura Skirmish+Barrage trick (aka the John Lancer) doesn't work in Lancer Tactics?

IMO it's a sensible thing to nerf but wanted to be sure it wasn't a mistake

[alpine sorrel]

unintentional but not unwelcome casualty

[young sorrel]

Haha, fair

[thin lark]

It enables other fun stuff though, such as skirmish move skirmish with different weapon, which usually wouldn't work under tabletop rules I believe.

(And when the first of those is an Ordnance weapon that's pretty rad)

[rain cipher]

Thinking about it, I think my personal wishlist for new content would be all the new LL0 mechs, then the rest in release order, long rim then Wallflower etc. It's a bit awkward in a squad game not being able to differentiate roles very much until you get some levels. It kind of makes sense in tabletop to give everyone the same limited training set to start with, but in LT you're not limited to just one character.

[proud dirge]

ya chomo and sag would be lovely

[thin lark]

Damnit I didn't save the level and it crashed :(

Actually maybe a useful error in the log!

   at: operator[] (./core/templates/vector.h:56)``` when I had a level in progress in the map (combat) editor, after deleting and making a pilot earlier in the session and then leaving it open for a while.  Last thing I did was click the button to generate the sitrep zones.

presumably zero indexing vs size problem but weird I've never encountered it before. Will try and reproduce it, though I've no idea how, I've pressed that button before!

Full log in case it helps

Yep, level completely gone.

... could we, perhaps, just possibly, get an autosave for the combat editor also please? :)

Even just a once per minute sort of thing would be great.

(Though it probably needs an option to be toggled, I suppose...)

As expected, can't get it to crash again :(

So, uh, apparently you can stand inside quite a lot of blocks already right now. I'm not convinced this is correct :)

That said, this VASTLY makes it easier to maneuver the Barbarossa. I remember having trouble just getting them out of the starting area on The_Mine, and now they can just walk through the hill

eww, that's not good. One unpleasant side effect of being big - if you select Move Payload when standing next to it, the payload will move to your top left corner, which might be up to three squares in the opposite direction from where you actually want to move it, and that will count against the payload movement limit for that turn

Shift Payload helps, but the reduced amount of spaces a size 3 unit can stand makes it a lot clumsier, which is weird because big stuff ought to be able to just pick up the payload easier, if anything..

[alpine sorrel]

payload movement should be much improved in the incoming build

New build is live: https://wick.itch.io/lancer-tactics/devlog/1081890/nhp-portraits-in-person-playtesting-finished-ha-mechs-pc-only

Unfortunately, this one is PC only as there were a few rendering crashes & export bugs on mac and linux that I wasn't able to fix in time.

But we did it, PC mech implementation is done. 😮‍💨

[proud dirge]

woooo new build!!!!!

[alpine sorrel]

here's the tier list post:

https://wick.works/devlog/mech-implementation-tier-list

[proud dirge]

also love to see a fellow mask warrior

(any idea when mac will get the new build? )

[alpine sorrel]

T_T I do not know. I've had to move back to developing on my backup pc because godot 4.5 has made LT so crashy and slow on my mac. I need to dig into the error codes and submit some bug reports to the engine.

[proud dirge]

lol no worries!

i can only imagine

also would love to hop in the LT discord when it happens, keep us posted <3

[brisk snow]

the new tokens look sooooo good

[alpine sorrel]

Just pushed a hotfix (0.4.2) that fixed a crash if you pick executioner 3

[stable smelt]

ah, napoleon. and napoleon's many evil edge cases

how does the engine handle blinkshield vs fade cloak by the way

[alpine sorrel]

I don't think they interact. Blinkshield messes with (hyper-)los & where you can move, intangible messes with if you can be targeted

I didn't code anything special beyond that

[stable smelt]

intangible prevents stuff from affecting you/you from affecting stuff and also lets you walk through obstacles - it's, uh, kind of an open question how exactly these things interact. #rules-questions message
unfortunately kind of a question that has to be asked

[brisk snow]

soooooooooooooooooo how do you update from itch.io?

is there a file I replace or do I just download it from scratch

[alpine sorrel]

I recommend getting the itch app which can download updates automatically/as patches

but otherwise yeah just delete the old game folder and download the new. your user data is stored elsewhere so will persist

[stable smelt]

(also slash sorry for this horrid bugbear - you don't have to do anything necessarily but it's worth noting down)

[teal flame]

wait hold on

the iskander's core power isn't requiring core power to use

[alpine sorrel]

haha oh no

sure enough, looks like I forgot to check the box

[brisk snow]

I can't believe efficient has already been implemented

[teal flame]

doesn't appear to be stacking the effect from multiple uses though

[alpine sorrel]

well enjoy the next month of unlimited death clouds until the next build. it won't stack, yeah

it'll just let you use it multiple combats in a misson

[brisk snow]

Did yall make the refresh button for nhp portraits cycle them?

great flavor lol

[brisk snow]

I found a new bug. Roland chamber is triggering for non-loading weapons now. Not sure if it's because I have a loading aux, but it triggered the knock prone effect on the vulture hitting

[weak willow]

does anyone else get Pilot profile pictures that show 2 at once?

[brisk snow]

that's the nhps

[weak willow]

ohhh

they crash the game

oh wait hmmm i got in to one