Lancer Tactics

[lilac anchor]

that does sound neat

I also made a docks map, inspired by the new shipping crates

I also had something silly happen and idk if thats supposed to happen, where I could use the barb's apoc rail's knockback on the terrain made by a bombard

[alpine sorrel]

oh hah I should probably make that immune to knockback

[alpine sorrel]

oh amazing! i'll include that too!

[weak willow]

yooo sick gonna try out

this is such a cool map!!

only feedback is giving more player entry location room, if I pick a Barb and all size 2 mechs i can't place them all

also a Bombard that goes 2nd in turn order will hit all your dudes before you have a chance to move 3/4

super cool map tho

the crates are like, perfection 👌

[lilac anchor]

groovy, ill fix that!

[teal flame]

as long as it actually works lmao

i remember that HW3’s one didn’t

well maybe it worked for maps

but actual mods had to be manually installed

[lilac anchor]

i am also... cooking on something else

yall ever wanted to raid a Bond Villain's Evil Ass Lair ™

[lilac anchor]

version with more spawn room

[weak willow]

entry in the middle is a cool take

[weak willow]

thanks mate

[lilac anchor]

👍 happy to help!

I had the idea of like, a heli pad, and went from there

Hey do you kids want a little 3 combat mission with my maps?

[weak willow]

id be down

[lilac anchor]

it's

1. Mountain Pass Gauntlet
2. Factory 1 Extract
3. Docks Escort

Delivering an unknown McGuffin (Could be a pizza for all that matters) through a captured dockyard, and out of the facility

gonna be running it myself

[teal flame]

oooooh

[alpine sorrel]

Interesting — I hadn't heard of mod.io, so it's good to hear opinions about it.

[teal flame]

deep rock galactic is an example of a game that did good with it

[lilac anchor]

My squad got slagged in mountain pass this map sucks

[proud dirge]

bentham/foucault elimination is triggering during the reaction from lesson of the held image? dont think that should work since b/fe is a quick action

[lethal leaf]

Yeah, you don't have any quick actions at that point.

[proud dirge]

napalm grenade should do 1 burn on a successful save but it did no damage?

[torpid crane]

make sure it wasn't against Grunts

since they take nothing from successful saves

[humble flower]

Heya, I'm having an issue in the combat editor where NPCs can spawn inside the Center zone during holdout. Am I doing something wrong in the editor?

[alpine sorrel]

Are there other zone tiles also in the center zone area? Holdout spawns reinforcements in the "entry", "endzone", and "flanks" zones.

[humble flower]

Ahh, that would be it, the player entry zone and the center zone overlap

[alpine sorrel]

It's on our list to make the sitrep triggers more visible & easy to inspect... someday.

[humble flower]

No worries! First time making a map and still figuring it out
Also wanted to say, amazing game even in this state. I'm primarily using it to test drive combat situations for my IRL Lancer games and it's been great so far

[alpine sorrel]

oh fun! I'm glad it's working well for you 🙂

[proud dirge]

fuckkkkk it was a grunt thats it thank you

[alpine sorrel]

I'll see if I can add a telegraph event for when that happens

[hazy ferry]

Suggestion for fighting priests: Minotaur

[weak willow]

i have indeed come to use minotaur frequently

but a hacking everest or monarch is kind of better

[hazy ferry]

I find it very funny to banish Priests

I only wish Calendula was in the game in order to prank them

[tepid temple]

-Emperor Shizong of Qing

[alpine sorrel]

Today's nightmare interaction I'm figuring out how to handle: throughbolt rounds on ghast nexus (say it's on a Tagetes to get around the weapon type restriction). It was already tricky to add in a single change of source tile for an attack; now I gotta redirect to the drone and then from there draw a line 3 and then from there finally make the attack.

all due to a weapon mod so I have really awkward access to the functions on any particular weapon I need to override

[stable smelt]

sorry this interaction is funny because, RAW, I think throughbolt means you fire the line from yourself instead of the drone(even while deployed)

(though it's understandable if you'd rather ignore that - it's not really how you'd 'expect' it to work)

[teal flame]

oh wow that really is a pain huh

i guess it also helps for any modded drone that can hold the user's weapons too

[final mesa]

Honestly what absolute sicko even users either of those two systems? No one surely?!

[elfin peak]

Really appreciate that you're making sure to account for these extreme edge cases with frames that aren't even planned for implementation.

[lilac anchor]

Wait to even get this you’d need Sherman 2… Hydra 3? And tortuga 2. Ll7 monster

[small panther]

Unfortunately this game might just be the only ethical way to play high-LL Lancer, so that could actually happen

I guess that's actually pretty fortunate, means more people want to buy your game

[weak willow]

Why ethical if I may ask

[small panther]

Whether player or GM, I do not want to inflict such a thing upon myself

This was also, mainly a joke (based on a feeling sole have that base Lancer kinda breaks down at high LLs)

[lilac anchor]

LL12 actually causes COMPCON to crash and erase all your files

and system 32

[humble flower]

Howdy, I've made a couple of maps I'm happy with and I've set them up to work with each sitrep option in the dropdown menu, but I was wondering how I would go about fenangling with triggers to do custom sitreps? Is there a guide somewhere I missed, or has that not been implemented yet

[alpine sorrel]

Making a guide is on our list but we haven't gotten there yet, so right now it's sort of a wild west. My best recommendation is to open up the tutorial in the editor and try to learn through example... but there's a lotta stuff that's not intuitive.

[humble flower]

Fair enough, I'll check that out and then bumble my way through to making something halfway decent

[teal sundial]

ive got some decent experience so shoot me a dm if u have any questoins

[humble flower]

Bet, I'll be sure to do that once I start messing with it. Thanks!

In the meantime, the two maps I made are now (hopefully) set up to work with the built in sitreps without issue, and I wanted to share them since I'm kind of proud of them even though they're my first maps

I saw @lilac anchor just post the .json files to theirs so I guess I'll do that too in case anyone wants to try them
1: Agni River - An impractically placed geothermal plant with hazardous terrain which NPCs should (hopefully) avoid. And if I set it up correctly, try to push PCs into.
2: Phosphor Valley - Prospecting site for a mining corp, which the players have been hired to secure before the corps competetors do. No special lava in this one, just wanted to try zone placement

I couldnt figure out how to take an Isometric .png, so heres shoddy screengrabs from the Instant Action tab for preview:

[lilac anchor]

wuh who summons me

oh groovy

[humble flower]

Oh dang, didn't mean to actually tag you my b. Discord habits amirite

[lilac anchor]

no your fine

if anything id rather be pinged then not

[alpine sorrel]

Oh these look great! Can I include them in the next build as community maps?

[humble flower]

Sure!

Hope there's nothing janky about them, I've played on them a few times and only encountered a couple of things (Mirages really liked blinking Demo's into the lava and it's funny every time)

[alpine sorrel]

"OrkishPoem" work as author credit?

[humble flower]

Yep, thats fine

Editor works great but I only have one thing I'm unsure about: it's a bit weird to me how the player deployment zone turns into npc ingress during holdout. It makes it so that NPCs spawn in the middle of the map if the PCs normally have a central entry point, like i have it set up in Phosphor valley.

[heady iris]

nice maps

[alpine sorrel]

I hear that... it's tricky to try to come up with zones that work as intended with all sitreps. The standard array of zones are laid out to try and match the sitreps in the core book. Since entry/flanks/endzone are all expected to be on the edges of the map, the standard holdout thinks that it's fine to use them as such.

I'm not sure what a good solution is. Maybe maps can come bundled with custom sitreps (by marking a trigger group as a sitrep) that can supplement/replace the standard ones? And then the custom holdout can specify different zones to use.

I'll add a note to investigate options, but it's not high priority

[humble flower]

For sure, thanks for taking it under advisement 🙂
I didn't really have an idea for a solution other than maybe just a check box in Zone Guide called "Allow NPC Ingress" or something and just have it on by default, but I'm not a developer so I have no idea how hard that is to implement or if there's a better solution.
But yeah, absolutely not a priority, it's just something I noticed while fiddling with things

[alpine sorrel]

got throughbolt working 😤

the cone direction is still a bit off

// broken

now that I actually watch the video

[teal flame]

right, it's supposed to continue in the same direction, isn't it

[alpine sorrel]

Exactly. And I decided to give it the leeway of a possible cone instead of a strict line

[teal flame]

that makes sense

[stable smelt]

that does make it notably better.

[latent sandal]

That’s baller

[stable smelt]

lines are going to be the real test...

[teal flame]

i reccomend testing it with the daisy cutter for sanity checks

[slender kindle]

Damn nice , now i am considering spreading my wallet to buy LANCER tactic

If i have lancer tactic can I peak under the hood to get an idea how the game works?

[lilac anchor]

Tugo :)

[slender kindle]

Oh yeah is that due to raised height?

[alpine sorrel]

The source isn't available, but I have a lot of technical deep-dives written up in the devlog: https://wick.works/devlog/category/lancer-tactics

[slender kindle]

Hell yeah lad i will check out

[alpine sorrel]

I've done 75% of siege ram & calling that good enough for now. The remaining bit is adding the ability to attack random setpieces/terrain objects in addition to deployables... which requires a larger decision to be made about how we want to handle being able to attack random objects with other weapons, as well.

Just the lannie left for ipsn

[final mesa]

That will kinda decide whether skirmisher/siege spec will let you attack the ground to scoot across the map yeah?

[stable smelt]

(fun RAW fact: you can attack empty air to trigger skirmisher 2/siege spec 2/fuel rod gun!)

[gritty spire]

being able to aim the fuel rod gun a nothing would be very useful

[alpine sorrel]

I'm currently leaning towards not being able to attack totally empty tiles, but enabling attacking setpieces like boulders/pipes/windmills.

Which is a distinction we'll eventually maybe someday need anyway for jager kunst movement

[gritty spire]

but aiming at the ground or structures would be nice for things like the d/d 288 or the apocalypse rail

that deals more damage on terrain

[alpine sorrel]

Apoc rail/other aoe attacks can already attack anywhere. D/D would probably follow the same rules as ram here where tilting at windmills is fine but not punching straight down into the ground

[teal sundial]

I think the 'deploy reinforcements' trigger isn't properly distinguishing between zones with identical IDs for the purposes of 'specific zone'

[proud dirge]

ES UN TORTUGAAAAAA AHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[alpine sorrel]

Oh you shouldn't be allowed to be able to make zones with identical IDs? That sounds like a bug by itself

[teal sundial]

oh- I assumed the distinction between 'specific zone' and 'zones with ID' was specifically for that purpose

[alpine sorrel]

Mmm specific zone is a way to get a drop-down list, zones with id... might be for partially matching? So like you can get obj_1 and obj_2 with just obj_ I don't remember off the top of my head for sure though

[teal sundial]

oohhh

[alpine sorrel]

Should maybe rename the "zones with id" to like "zones with IDs that partially match" or something

[teal flame]

can't wait to do hyperdense armour BS with the minotaur

[teal flame]

okay speaking of

there's something fucky about the minotaur's ophidian trek

it's not triggering here, despite rolling a 3

[alpine sorrel]

Cool. I think the magnetic cannon also recently broke and I think it uses the same "pull" function, so I wonder if it's related.

[teal flame]

possibly?

[proud dirge]

ya ive been having trouble with mag cannon

[teal flame]

hm, rebake witch might be annoying to code

[burnt frigate]

I'm not a coder myself, but in what particular way are you thinking?

[teal flame]

oh just the whole “can clear tear down when stabilising instead of cooling heat”

i guess just make it get cleared before heat can be cleared?

[burnt frigate]

Yeah I can see that might be a bit of an annoying exception, though I don't know how hard or easy that is to implement

I'm fine with olive making whatever adjustments she needs to make in order to implement things in the least stressful way possible

Like from a strict "lancer the TRPG game design" perspective, which is distinct from Lancer Tactics the videogame coding perspective, making the tear down part mandatory rather than a choice between "clear tear down or clear heat" COULD potentially make it nastier as a way of "locking" someone's ability to stabilize heat-clear, I feel for example a lot of people running stabilize loop builds using Redundant Systems Upgrade would probably prefer to choose clearing heat and then taking the Tear Down later than being forced to clear the tear down, BUT this is also something that might be more of a problem if a human GM was running it rather than a video game AI

That is to say, giving players the choice between the two options in the rebake was done intentionally to keep that flexibility on the player end of how to best respond to Tear Down, but I understand that Lancer Tactics isn't aiming to be a 1-1 Lancer recreation and has its own contexts it's working within

[teal flame]

oh yeah it’s a really neat mechanic

just more reliant on a GM’s judgement

then again, there are far worse edge cases already in

[burnt frigate]

yeah a GM running "mandatory tear down have to clear first" could do some real bastard stuff with it

[alpine sorrel]

It'll be the first time one action adds a new multiple-choice option to that variant bar for a different action -- so I'll probably just add a third little box to toggle between clear heat // heal // clear tear down. A little bit of new engine capability but nothing too bad there.

Nothing compared to the crimes I had to do to get throughbolt working today. I even wrote myself a little walkthrough.

[slender kindle]

Jesus is thoughtbolt that complex

I need to see for myself

[slender kindle]

Ok yeah it is complex god damn

Hope it work olive

[elfin peak]

Very very random thought based on a message from a few days ago and stuff Olive told us not to do

But in theory a GM who wanted to focus more on narrative could pretty effectively automate combat for their players so they can focus more on the storytelling.

[teal sundial]

I was at a party the other month and I played friendly fire pvp lancer tactics (with captive demolisher) it was pretty fun

[gritty spire]

me and a player of mine from back when I was a dm were talking about this[

if it would be possible to use tactics as a vtt

[elfin peak]

Pretty sure you could do it via something like steams virtual play if/when we get a steam release?

Everyone just hot seats on their turn

[gritty spire]

for sure

i'm the kind of dm that likes storytelling and rp but suffers with rules

so even if we do it via discord screen share, we will test that out

[woven glade]

Having a bug with the recent version where I'm unable to open it, the game seems to crash on startup with no error message or logs, it appears and then disappears before the exe even names its own window

Example image

[alpine sorrel]

Damn I bet that's a problem with having moved back to the forward+ renderer.

I think I can make a shortcut that launches it in compat mode automatically you could try... one minute

[alpine sorrel]

OK, try putting this shortcut in the same folder as LancerTactics.exe and running it instead.

(you could also make a shortcut to LancerTactics.exe yourself, right click it for "Properties", then append this to the end of the "target" field: --rendering-driver opengl3)

I'll include this shortcut automatically for windows in builds going forward... definitely should have done so for this last one

[woven glade]

I'll try both ways to see if it works

[woven glade]

yup the shortcut worked

👍

[alpine sorrel]

Great! Thanks for reporting the crash.

[heady iris]

oh don't mind if i do

been having problems with foward+ too
not loading models in encounters
i always have to use compatibility

but the game doesn't save my preference and i have to restart the game 2 times
one to open it and one to switch to compatibility

[teal sundial]

would it be possible to add a size_increase system to the npc system list? ive been relying on formorian frame to make npcs bigger but that also gives the benefits of Heavy Frame which is pretty major

[alpine sorrel]

😖 I wish so much there was one mode that Just Worked. Out of curiosity, what models don't load? In F+? I don't know if there's anything I can do besides having added the compat mode, but it might be nice to see what the common break points are.

[heady iris]

i'll send some screeshot in a bit

thanks for your work as always olive🧡

[alpine sorrel]

Same 2 u ✨

[heady iris]

on first look it doesn't load any character model
trees are weird deployment zones are invisible as well

picked a water map just to see if there was anything different but all water maps are broken on this patch i'm on

tbf i'm playing on a different computer than usual. now i'm mounting a Radeon RX 6500 XT if that can be of any help

[alpine sorrel]

Hah wow cursed

I'm shocked that such a recent card doesn't work

[heady iris]

as soon as i'm around my proper rig i'll see if F+ works on my 4080 super

[heady iris]

maybe the log can tell you anything?
i'll leave it just in case

[teal sundial]

dr eggman???

[heady iris]

here's my new character name

can't believe i never noticed

Eggwoman

[tidal tulip]

Apparently the black witch here is not in range of the Burst 1 of the ICEOUT drone??

[teal flame]

i’m not sure how LT handles burst verticality

[alpine sorrel]

It should be, bug if not. There was another iceout bug reported that I couldn't repro, so verticality might have been the missing ingredient.

[tidal tulip]

Started my turn next to the extraction objective and was not given the option to move it. Used my TP standard movement and objective was left behind under the water.

I can send game save and log for this one. let me know how

I also can't seem to clear EXPOSED when stabilizing

[alpine sorrel]

Yeah a save would be useful for that I think. You can find your saves folder by going to settings and then DATA. Press the button and then the saves are in saves/.

[alpine sorrel]

For this, do you mean that when you pick heat/exposed, exposed doesn't clear? Or it's not in the list of clearable conditions?

[tidal tulip]

not on the list of clearable conditions, i may be misunderstanding the rules

[weak willow]

It clears automatically if you clear Heat

Even if no heat actually needs to be cleared because you just took Stress

But Stabilizing to Repair does not clear Heat

[alpine sorrel]

yeah exactly. the only way to clear exposed, i believe, is stabilizing and clearing heat+exposed since it's a status & not a condition (like prone)

(I have to look up which one's which every time, still 😓 )

[latent sandal]

playing lancer tactics has taught me that i need to be more mean with witches

because christ almighty are they effective

[weak willow]

even berserkers fishing for invades are statistically dangerous

[heady iris]

bombards, priests, mirages too

[heady iris]

boosted with my gorgon so i could get closer to the action but being size 3 makes it hard to move around
are size 3 mechs supposed to be this limited on movement because of insufficient plane space around them?

[alpine sorrel]

it is a common downside... I could hear arguments about loosening the "must be on flat ground" restrictions

since as far as I know, "eyeballin' it" is the usual way of telling if a unit can stand somewhere for the ttrpg when it comes to straddling cliffs

this just happened while I was bugfixing. gorgon OP

[mild jay]

I do think a lot of lancer maps I’ve played for tabletop tend to have mostly flat areas filled with objects for height variation, cover, and LoS blockers

[tepid temple]

I maintain that Tom said a unit can stand on a surface so long as the majority of its spaces can stand on it, for what it's worth

[mild jay]

Whereas in lancer tactics it’s easier to make highly varied elevations for terrain since it’s 3d rather than overhead 2d

[tepid temple]

I do wonder to what extent LT maps diverge from tabletop maps just because the people designing them can go "Ooooh pretty"

[flint portal]

Thus far i've designed the maps for this game the same way I would, more or less, for a module

for what that's worth

(with more height stuff in play because its easier to play with)

That's just for the part i'm currently doing, i'm thinking of eventually putting some of those here to get some testing on them btw

[final mesa]

Sneak peek Eld maps, you heard it here first folks.

For Eld's unannounced, definitely official, not a humourous joke posted by a random user, first party module coming out next year.

[flint portal]

oh no I mean i've been brought on for some maps for Lancer tactics for a little bit actually

[stable smelt]

I would personally recommend allowing a size 3 unit to do funny things like stand with only one of its spaces actually on something - not for funny reasons but because otherwise terrain gets actively catastrophic to impossible to navigate

[stable smelt]

like the presented gorgon has (at least) four speed, which would be enough to let it climb out of that pit if it could stand on objects with only some of its spaces, but is actively impossible without that ability

it would, for reference, need like 6 spaces of movement if it needed to stand on completely flat ground. (and there isn't a space it could stand in this example without like 7 or 8 spaces of movement)

as for 'how many spaces it would need to be able to stand to escape the pit', the minimum here is four spaces (directly up for 2, diagonal onto the edge that's four spaces for 2 more); I would argue needing to stand on two or three spaces at most. it's otherwise super awkward to get over things since you have so many 'back' spaces that you can't get onto objects of even your size.

[sand goblet]

If I remember correctly the ruling on this is that you just need one of the spaces you're standing on to be valid, allowing overhangs. It seems possible that this wasn't the intent but it's also the most workable solution in practice so I've never bothered to argue RAI vs RAW

Oh hey we had this discussion before

[heady iris]

i missed that bombard two times with my tokugawa rifle but i was able to attack him twice.
now for some reason i can't attack that bombard again
feels weird is this a bug?
i am using range increasing abilities and system but he is on a red tile, so within reach
i can also attack enemies that are more away so i don't understand what keeps me from attacking the bombard again.

the first 2 attacks were made with the sol pattern laser rifle and i was trying to use the vijaya rockets for the overcharge attack

[teal sundial]

any1 got any fun builds at LL3 they'd be willing to share?

[weak willow]

any particular frames in mind?

Engineer III (Rifle) Ghenghis with Krakatoa, Thermal Rifle, Mortar is a multithreat joy to pilot

[heady iris]

ll3 is very tight
usually i make builds for 6

everest builds at LL3 are nice tho

[heady iris]

thought of one
2 levels monarch 1 blackwich
set javellins down then ferrous lash or mag cannon enemies over them
you can also use gandiva missiles to hit characters that have less Edef

[lilac anchor]

I usually go LL5 or 6 :(

[smoky glacier]

gorgon 1 (sentinel drone), balor 1 (hive drone), goblin 1 (autopod)
Lesson of the Held Image
slap those parts on alongside jerichos and turret drones
your role is to make the battlefield as safe for your allies and unsafe for your enemies as possible

Use an Everest if you wanna be a little silly with it- you can use Initiative to set up your drones and cover faster
Use a Chomolungma if you want to also pop in Hor_OS 1 and be a more conventional tech controller

[teal sundial]

I meant like

can u send me the json file so I can play em

[weak willow]

lol

if i share the pilot i share the mech right

[teal sundial]

I think so

[weak willow]

i shared it at ll6 but you can scale it back easily

[storm grotto]

Hi, just got the game yesterday, great work! Can't wait for the rest of the content to drop. For some reason tech attacks seem to require LoS, and Berserker aggression triggers on getting hit by tech attacks. This doesn't seem right from my understanding?

[cedar hill]

Tech attacks do not ignore line of sight, but Berserker aggression should not trigger from getting hit by a tech attack as taking heat is not taking damage. However, Lancer Tactics uses the NPC Rebake versions of the NPCs so it might work differently there

But nothing about tech attacks says they ignore line of sight or don't need it

[storm grotto]

you're right I just reread the Invade rules

No hiding behind a wall hacking for me, then

[stable smelt]

rebakes are the same damage trigger, so that's a bug!

[lilac anchor]

Where can one find the NPC rebakes I’ve seen them mentioned a lot

[proud dirge]

https://kaitave.itch.io/lancer-npcs-rebaked

[mild jay]

there’s also a thread where Kai is workshopping some non-crb npc rebakes: https://discord.com/channels/426286410496999425/1334655875679260692

Mainly wallflower npcs but also some from their older 3rd party books

[lilac anchor]

Groovy

[hazy ferry]

May I introduce you to Metahook

Goblin 2

[storm grotto]

and watch my goblin melt down? pass

[hazy ferry]

That's only really a risk if you metahook to a high heat mech

Don't do it on a Harrison

[storm grotto]

anyway, my designated hacker is the oracleslinger swallowtail

[hazy ferry]

You can still use metahook though

Just need to be LL4

[storm grotto]

Not the way I've been overcharging. btw berserkers are annoying as anything

[hazy ferry]

You can also use your overcharging to assist friendly harrison mechs

Most of them want to be in the danger zone

[teal flame]

idea: some sort of “lense flare” animation when a mech activates core power

[alpine sorrel]

Yeah it needs a lot more juice. I was thinking some sort of anime style cut in with the pilot's face

[storm grotto]

also, since I play LT in lieu of actually finding a lancer game to join, I'm now learnging that fights are hard and that you should expect to structure every combat - its a reource to spend as well haha

[weak willow]

It also depends a lot on how much the DM likes to focus fire

I've gone from no stress to losing 2 stress in a single round because every enemy on the map did a tech attack on my monarch

Bugged because of preference for larger mechs, yes, but that just goes to show my point

[elfin peak]

Powerup screaming intensifies

[heady iris]

On the contrary
they are my favorite enemies
One just needs to remember to get them prone to kill them more easily

but my favorite way is to move them close to each other hit one and then see a chain reaction of aggression as they hit each other and fight for me xD

[storm grotto]

Not sure what's convenient for inflicting prone, in the current build?

[heady iris]

well if you're melee ram is always avaiable and it's a quick
then if you have good hull there's blackbeard cable swing that gives you drag down so you can contest hull to knock somone prone
but there are other ways
prone is not the only thing that can incapacitate berserkers
there's duskwing system that can stun and jam
manticore can stun too at 1d6 energy damage cost

impairing them is enough to get rid of their damage resistance and you can always use the standard quick teck fragment signal to impair and slow them as well

[storm grotto]

oh righ ramming doesn't provoke aggression. I think I'll look into vital logic suite on my hacker and hack friends for area slow. Its not prone but its worth something.

[heady iris]

you an also push them 1 space away while ramming so you can then hit them with anything without taking aggression

[elfin peak]

Now I want to play with a bunch of berserkers and a warp rifle

[storm grotto]

gravity gun?

[heady iris]

i'd love sunzi here xD

[elfin peak]

The plan is to bully Olive into doing a second round of kickstarter once the game is finished to add the expansions as DLC

[small panther]

I wouldn't say "bully" but yes I want to throw money at her

[storm grotto]

It's weird but I can't spearfish with my blackbeard: throwing a war pike doesn't let me initiate a ranged grapple with duelist 3, though range 5 grapple works fine, as does throwing the pike in the first place.

[lilac anchor]

Give it a DBZ/JoJo aura

[heady iris]

been playing this game all summer it's too fun
best passtime

just cleared a gauntlet of 12 rounds with LL 9 team
fought in urban sprawl against the boulder squad with 3.0 reinforcement and +1 tier
i think that's a good difficulty standard for an easy fight, not too boring but not really hard either

had a great time

[proud dirge]

literally ive been addicted all summer

[toxic badge]

No bug, your vijayas are shorter range than your sol rifle - the bombard is in range for the sol rifle but not the rockets.
If you don't immobilize yourself with stable, steady at the start of that turn you can move one space and attack the bombard with the vijayas.
He is actually not on a red tile in the second screenshot you posted, that little red circle only indicates that he's hostile.

[heady iris]

Ooh i see i thought that was a tile for range

[heady iris]

So, wait how's the demolisher in range? Is it actually within shorter range than the bombard?

Maybe the square diagonals got the better of my eye xD

[toxic badge]

The farther demolisher is also not in range without moving - I think you're hovering over the grunt mirage in front of him

(the 14 evasion is the giveaway there, the demolisher has an evasion of 6)

With the mirage invisbile and hiding in a wreck like that, it is real hard to see 😄

It did bring another bug to my attention, though, so thanks for bringing it up anyways! (the attached save file is extremely helpful, thanks for that too!)

[alpine sorrel]

This ended up being the system working as intended. them being 3 above the ground puts them just out of reach, like this:

I'm not sure how to better communicate this ingame. You can hit them with a threat 3 weapon from the ground just fine because that lets you reach 4 up, counting your own height

[tepid temple]

Ah, 3 spaces up as there’s 3 spaces below them, not that they’re in the 3rd space with 2 below

[heady iris]

Ah they are height 4
I misunderstood them having height 3

[tidal tulip]

no, h3. it starts at 0

[heady iris]

That's fair
In my games we call height 0 as 1 so i see why i was confused now

[alpine sorrel]

yeah it's confusing

[thin lark]

(I have found this place also, if it's better to speak here rather than make itch.io discussion board threads for things. I'm feeling a bit selfconscious at having the most recent three threads now...)

[shrewd fulcrum]

Does that mean fomorian balor can reach them?

But also, really cool showcase of the systems ❤️

[alpine sorrel]

Hello & welcome! Morally I prefer the itch board since they're more publicly searchable, but practically speaking this is where the majority of conversations happen, alas

[thin lark]

Here is probably a lot better for short form feedback like "the way the talent circles swoosh around when you click on things looks -so- nice!"

[alpine sorrel]

exactly 🙂

I appreciated the logs & save files in your report on the forums btw, even if I wasn't able to repro

[thin lark]

I'll make sure to provide any if I get any more crashes, though it hasn't crashed once since then which is good!

[thin lark]

Has anyone else mentioned that Slowed mechs can't Jump? Presumably because Jump counts as a movement talent in this, wheras the book considers it part of a standard move?

[teal flame]

oh that’s a good point

[thin lark]

It makes a Drake with either Assault Cannon very difficult to maneuver when it's spun up. Which does feel like it fits, but also, being unable to climb basically anything is... kinda tough.

And the Barbarossa can't even get out of the deployment zone on some maps, whether it's slowed or not, but that's because it's beeeeg. I might try improvised attacks to flatten the terrain and see if that works, since terrain is nicely destructible in this

(Or just danger close mortars)

[weak willow]

It's weird how size 2 mechs don't have much problem getting over blocks but Barb just can't even get over a minor speedbump

[alpine sorrel]

Oh good catch

And yeah we were just talking about how to handle lack of size 2+ mobility

[heady iris]

this Ace failed against my gorgon basilisk on the first attack roll but the attack still went through on my tokugawua

aces definitely act weird with basilisk i'm noticing

not sure why it cleared flying on its own there and took fall damage

[thin lark]

Perhaps it didn’t move? I don’t think Aces have hover, do they? (Can’t see a way of getting it with a quick glance, so if they’re flying they need to move every turn or fall)

[heady iris]

actually i don't think it moved
and i believe they don't have hover so falling would be right

strange that it didn't move tho
nothing was keeping it from moving

Ace Ai might need a tweak so that at least moves one space to not fall

[thin lark]

It chose to attack first, got stunned by the basilisk, turn ended, no movement so it fell. It should have moved first for safety but that’s the sort of mistake I’d certainly make running it :)

[crimson merlin]

I wouldn't say letting its abilities work is a mistake. *steps on players mines on purpose

[heady iris]

it actually didn't get stunned by the basilisk if you look it passed both saves

[thin lark]

Your first screenshot with it falling shows it failing the save?

[heady iris]

fair i didn't specify this are 2 separate ACEs

[thin lark]

But in general it looks like it’s rolling the save vs every target independently, instead of once per attack and cancelling the whole attack action if it fails.

[heady iris]

which sounds right
as far as i know
AOE attacks are a series of single attacks for each target in the area
so effects like basilisks trigger for every unit you target

and you hit your target only if you pass the save first

so you can hit the first target, deal damage then fail the save on the second character and remain stunned cancelling the attack on the second target

basilisk has been working like this very well so far
but that first Ace attacked even after failing on the first save

is there a reason why i can't use cover fire with my krakatoa flamethrower?

[heady iris]

look at that burn

that was actually a double structure on an elite xD

[storm grotto]

man what did this witch do to you, man?

[heady iris]

Hacked my manticore to attack gorgon while basilisc was active and made it stun itself

[storm grotto]

I hate witches too but righ now I find bombards the worst

boom blast 2 template, 3 people get hit and repeat

[heady iris]

Thanks to gorgon they are perma stunned xD

[storm grotto]

how does gorgon perma stun people? CP?

[heady iris]

Yes but well not forever tbf
One round of stun and not having all my team at half hp is more than enough so i can take care if the bombard before round 2

[storm grotto]

I should get my act together: round 1 activate blackbeard and lash people out of the bombard template before boosting off, that way they can only blow up 2 at a time

I keep trying to play without spending CP

[heady iris]

I had to reevaluate universal compatibility
Popping your core and healing to full hp is a power move

[storm grotto]

yeah especially if you have an efficient CP (not implemented in LT yet, sure)

[hollow oracle]

don't think it will be unless we get any non-core content, right?

[storm grotto]

I was under the impression it was a stretch goal, but totally understand its a lot of work, and really depends on if Olive wants to do it or not

[thin lark]

How does Barbarossa's recharge-if-you-don't-fire-it core power activation interact with Universal Compatibility? That's pretty close to Efficient, almost.

Presumably you can get a free (ok, quick action) vent and heal every scene, if you choose never to actually fire the rail

[heady iris]

barbarossa striker strats

button heal

[torpid crane]

i believe the RAI (as per FAQ) is that Unicomp only counts when the core power is consumed "for real", like when Barb fires its first shot or when Enkidu gets a Bifurcate kill.

[alpine sorrel]

oh hm. I think I have unicomp triggering on starting to charge the apoc cannon, currently.

[heady iris]

found a bug where the on hit effect of mag cannon procs before checking for invisibility

[tidal tulip]

mag cannon is on-attack, according to FAQ
https://lancer-faq.netlify.app/#3cdaa9

depends on whether Olive is going by errata or exactly RAW

[heady iris]

ah, not sure
i usually refer to comp/con when i'm unsure
there the weapon says on hit so i thought you had to hit someone first

[viscid oriole]

it says on hit but it's been stated later it should say on attack

[heady iris]

in all other cases mag cannon activates on attack so that's correct then

something strange happened here
the Ace used barrel roll after i hit him and damage was dealt.
but i think barrel roll activated on that first attack and then executioner prompts got in the way
it confused me a bit

[alpine sorrel]

haha sure enough. the barrel roll was used up (but still on the stack) by the time you got the the backswing cut

the only possible bug here is that I think the "barrel roll triggered for ace" line should come sooner, not when it actually moves

[heady iris]

on another note, is it right that i can use beckon on demolishers as a size 1 manticore?
i thought heavy frame would prevent that

[thin lark]

Heavy frame says "Pushed, pulled, knocked prone or knocked back" in compcon at least. Teleporting isn't on that list, so that seems fine?

[heady iris]

reading online that tom said heavy frame doesn't block teleport involuntary movement but i don't have a source

[thin lark]

Sounds more complex to handle in an automated way. Probably possible, but it's not as if triggering the system isn't an opportunity cost - you'll usually want to do it on the first turn or on an offturn whenever you have a spare action, but if you have Universal Compatibility now you might want to do so later, when you can benefit more. Suppose that's also true if it triggers when you fire though, can be argued both ways. Don't think either of them is terrible though, given how many efficient powers have showed up in later things.

[heady iris]

here it made me attack 2 times in the same turn with my oracle rifle
problem is that it's my integrated aux weapon and should fire only 1/round

[torpid crane]

for Enkidu in particular where Crush Limiter is a protocol, it makes unicomp a lot stronger to have it trigger off the initial activation (can basically use it as a protocol super-stabilize 1/combat). not relevant unless adapting Wallflower is in the cards at some point though.

as for barb, I don't wanna armchair dev but I feel like it would work to have it check on firing if it's the first shot that scene (which presumably there is already a var in place to check for the end-of-scene refund), and if so do the unicomp clear + refund roll

[heady iris]

that doesn't mention if involuntary-teleport bypasses heavy frame tho

[tepid temple]

It's the source for the only info on the FAQ/errata on Heavy Frame, draw second-order rulings as thou will

[heady iris]

this is funny,
the witch got stuck in the magfield, but then my mag unfortunately died immediately because of a reactor melt down

thing is, since it's never gonna be the mag's turn the magfield will keep staying up and the witch will never free itself xD
i even trapped her on top of a plasma thrower flame xD

[alpine sorrel]

there is an alarming amount of rubble and destroyed blocks in that screenshot

that city is having a bad time

[tepid temple]

Urban warfare be like that

[heady iris]

that's what a genghis and manticore do to your battlefield xD

[heady iris]

tho to be fair these wrecks appeared there out of nowhere

they where previously more plasmathrowers flames but when they got caught in the blast of my witch melting down the flames took around 23 damage each and turned into wreckage

[alpine sorrel]

Oh! Haha, that shouldn't happen.

[heady iris]

figures xD

[mild jay]

Illusionist Ghengis with flame-simulating drones

[alpine sorrel]

I don't understand why the plasma thrower flames are such a constant source of flummuxing bugs

[heady iris]

someone's gotta make it up on HA's behalf to rival Horus' shenanigans

[heady iris]

ghostweave is not working on my Bb for some reason

is flickerfield breaking GW ?

summon doesn't pull the caster closer

[tepid temple]

I'm sorry but looking at that Balor all I can think is

[heady iris]

tidal suppression triggered twice in the same turn

[alpine sorrel]

Implementing lancaster: skirmisher, skirmish, and skirmisher get all the attention for duplicate names, but nobody talks about redundant systems and redundant systems upgrade.

[thin lark]

There’s also sentinel, sentinel drone, (and also sentry drone in suldan), and possibly another similar one I can’t remember. There’s just a lot of names for a lot of things.

[alpine sorrel]

nice

[small panther]

"There are so many words in the english language" mfs when asked to name something :

(I am mfs)

[thin lark]

I hit someone with a Magnetic Cannon, they failed their save, but didn't move.

Even if the difficult terrain is doubling the cost, they should have moved at least one tile?

Not sure whether the difficult terrain or the mag cannon in general is involved, will find out soon I guess.

Also, got structured without a chance to ever brace. Have a thingy that boosts brace, so that feels a little rude... strange, though. It's always asked before.

New bug found, log file hasn't flushed to disk in general. Game not crashed, but last line of log is:
Queuing event block event_combat_end--1-391 (with 1 ev
Should probably be writing to disk after every single event.

Balor's after battle healing seems wrong. It let me fix two structure for free, and then charged me one repair to fix 5hp

Swarm Body wasn't hitting this Assault standing on the pipe (I know this screenshot is late, it's not adjacent anymore, but it -was- standing adjacent, and it wasn't being applied. Scouring Swarm -was- getting applied though.)

In fact it just doesn't seem to be working for some reason anymore, even though it worked last map.

and then it crashed after pressing OK to a defeat.

Let's see if it keeps doing that.

nope, sadly not. And the log was useless because it hadn't flushed to disk :(

Never did find out whether it was the mag cannon or the terrain, but Ferrous Lash worked fine, so I suspect it was the Mag Cannon not pulling like it should.

[alpine sorrel]

Sick, thank you for all these reports! The mag cannon one I think I've already fixed for the next build. I would love to figure out why the logs have been cutting out — I just made them a lot less noisy so maybe that'll help?

[thin lark]

It looks like the log isn't being saved to disk properly. Many disk access libraries buffer output to memory and only actually write to the disk in large chunks, because in almost all cases except logging that's a lot more efficient, but obviously for logging you don't care about that and you want every event to output. Not looked at Godot's logging options, but I've had that same problem with some other log using filestreams in c# once, and it does exactly this where the log file looks weirdly cut off and doesn't show the current events. The answer is usually to find whatever manual flush to disk method or function exists and call it as part of whatever method is making a log entry. I could of course be entirely wrong :)

Swarm Body continued to be inconsistent, even against stuff that was on the same height level. It seemed to mostly work if the enemy didn't move around too much, but then stopped working if the enemy moved, even though they moved to another space next to the balor. Can't see what area it's affecting, but maybe it's affecting a blast 1 area starting in only one of the balor's squares, and not a burst 1 emanation from all eight of the balor's voxels that make up the space it's occupying? No idea really, this is just a guess, but it would fit what I've observed. Making the radii for projected effects like this more visible might help.
Could see the one for the hive drone as very pale white, except from topdown view where it was almost invisible.

[alpine sorrel]

The swarm body is broken because it stops working when anyone moves, not just you. Another thing that'll be fixed soon.

[thin lark]

Aha. Well, glad you found it for sure then :)

I also learned that improvised attack is a full action and so the brawler talent for it isn't nearly as good as it seems, and you really can't rely on swarm body plus improvised attack to do enough melee damage. (Obviously should have taken the nano whip plus heavy melee talents after all, but hey, good to know)

[alpine sorrel]

ha yeah quick action improvised attack + brawler would be nuts

nobody would need a heavy slot ever again

I feel like I mostly see it talked about in context of Napoleon's core power

[torpid crane]

it's 2 talent ranks for a bad melee superheavy, in a sense

[cedar hill]

i like it as a nice heavy damage option on single mount mechs

[torpid crane]

(minus no executioner synergy, etc)

[cedar hill]

for two talents you become a lot more annoying to dive on

[torpid crane]

if you have the third talent rank to spare i would probably favor Engineer over it, but it has its niches yeah

[thin lark]

Oh, and one more thing I remembered - I deployed a Hive Drone, it got blown to pieces, and then I could... deploy another one? It's not limited, so as far as I understand the Drone tag, if the first one gets blown up that's it, system counts as destroyed. (The drones seem rather fragile at higher tier, that's for sure, even with drone commander for +5hp)

[teal flame]

is that the pull thing again

that the BW and Minotaur are also encountering

[alpine sorrel]

I bet so

[blissful karma]

Newbie question, sorry: Where can I learn to use the combat editor? I can build maps all right, but when I try to play them, rounds go by without any unit (friendly, foe, or neutral) being deployed, until I get the failure message. Did I miss something about objectives or whatever? Thanks.

And, hi! by the way...!

[alpine sorrel]

Hello! Welcome! There's not any good learning resources, currently. I've been saying we've been waiting until it stabilizes feature-wise before sinking time into making tuts, but it might be time to start thinking about doing that 😅

It won't deploy any units automatically without either a trigger to do so (in the trigger tab, which is its own can of worms) or by having the game set up a sitrep automatically by backing out of the map editor and selecting it as your map for instant action.

To be a valid map for instant action, you'll need to add some zones to the map if you haven't already. There's a button in the zone tab to add all the different zones a sitrep expects -- select each one and paint them onto the map as appropriate.

[teal sundial]

maybe we could make a combat editor user thread so ppl can share tips

[thin lark]

By the way, is there currently a way to get a plain fight until one side loses combat scenario? I didn’t find one.

[teal sundial]

you can set up a combat with a very long round limit and no objectives in the combat editor, and it'll automatically conclude when all enemies are destroyed

[weak willow]

Gauntlet often ends up being deathmatch

[teal sundial]

turns out you can't make a thread in a thread
:(

[alpine sorrel]

Could post something on the itch forums? It'd be more searchable+visible to more people that way. Though I know it's more awkward.

[alpine sorrel]

I want to talk out how I'm going to approach the lannie Cable Winch System:

• you have a blanket prohibition on moving beyond 5 spaces apart with standard movement or other abilities.
• both units have a special movement action called "drag" that slows you for the duration of the movement (like a reverse jump jet) but allows you to move beyond 5 spaces apart. Additionally, for the duration of the movement you're attached to your target so they come along with as if you were grappling.
• if during a drag action, at any point if you become more than 5 spaces apart (such as if they got caught on some terrain), the rest of the pull is cancelled and you're shunted back to the closest valid distance & your move is refunded somehow. predicting ahead of time legal tiles to drag to sounds like too much of a nightmare.
• also, when you're dragging, you have to move away from the attached unit (no pushing them by an inexplicably rigid cable)
• "any character can remove the cables with a hit" --- another special action where you pick the weapon/imp attack that you want to use & it rolls an attack against a phantom cable target. this is available to either character OR anyone in a line between the two?
• automatically hits against non-characters like deployables... dragging around jericho cover is fine?

i spent all this time being afraid of the mule harness, forgetting the humble rules knot of the cable winch

[lethal leaf]

I forgot. Do you have to deploy the cable to let yourself climb at normal speed, or does it just happen?

[alpine sorrel]

I think that just happens? though it makes it strictly better than DH mag clamps

in LT land where you can't stop halfway up

[lethal leaf]

Oh, also the Lancaster has one other funky rules interaction. It's not specifically defined, but you should be able to use Whitewash to get rid of Plasma Thrower flames. Because you know those haven't given you enough trouble.

[alpine sorrel]

ahahahaha oh no

thanks for the tip

[lethal leaf]

lmao no problem.

[tepid temple]

I stand by the cable winch being an atavism of a more simulationist Lancer

[lethal leaf]

Counterpoint: funy

[glad lotus]

Yeah, it's such an outlier of tiny special case rules

But I do have fond memories of my players using cable winch to get their Tortuga land-surfing behind the Lannie

[alpine sorrel]

amazing

[glad lotus]

"Drive me closer, I want to hit them with my sword shotgun" times

[teal sundial]

same w/ the otherwise-unmentioned 'fires' extinguished by whitewash

[alpine sorrel]

can't wait for y'all to utterly break this

[teal flame]

oooooh

[odd whale]

unironically i'd pay for a DLC where players can submit images to upload custom tokens

sure it wouldnt allow the tokens to look beyond left and right, but it'd add more customization i think

so you'd just have a 2d token that looks left and right

[odd whale]

also oh dear god that will be fun

[alpine sorrel]

this is high on the post-kickstarter feature list, no dlc needed

[odd whale]

oh alright! thank you!

as someone who makes a LOT of kitbashes it'd be pretty fun to fight my own creations :>

Lancer Tactics: Castle Crashers update [We did it too!]

[gritty spire]

do you have a link for the feature list?

[alpine sorrel]

nope, it's internal

besides the FAQs on the kickstarter I guess

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wickworks/lancer-tactics/faqs

[gritty spire]

thanks, thats cool

but this particuar feature really hyped me up, oh my god

[teal sundial]

it'd be super useful to be able to remove the delay associated with characters leaving and joining a conversation

[stable smelt]

for point 3(if you do an invalid drag somehow) will that refund movement? that might be the cleanest way to deal with 'you tried to drag wrong'. I think all of this is correct though

the winch is funny, and does not snap when your target teleports

[alpine sorrel]

good catch, I hadn't thought of that

[lethal leaf]

Also, a Mourning Cloak with its core active can drag with its teleporting standard move.

[alpine sorrel]

baseline movement types get folded in automatically for the move e.g mag clamps giving free climb

[blissful karma]

Nope. Whatever I do (sitrep or trigger), the only result I can get is that a single foe now deploys and boosts around for two turns, and then mission failed... Guess I'll draw maps for a while. Seconding again the creation of a combat editor user thread. Anyway, thanks.

[teal sundial]

hm I might make a gc given the number of ppl who seem interested. react if u would want 2 be added to the combat editor gc

[hazy ferry]

Oh! I had that issue too!

Your mechs are all destroyed

You just need to do a repair

Because all your mechs are destroyed, they can't be deployed, and since you have no mechs on the field, you lose

[alpine sorrel]

Ugh I think I'm changing the break condition to just making another hull save. Making an attack against a phantom target is crazy complicated and this ability is already over budget on time.

I know that it makes the grapple cables worse because it'll always just take a quick and NPCs are probably better at hull saves than flat attack rolls

but thems the breaks

I'm also going to add free-action release from the initiator even though it's not raw

[teal sundial]

you need to add a trigger for the beginning of combat that deploys the player lancers

if you're using custom map settings rather than a sitrep

[teal sundial]

+a zone for them to deploy into

[blissful karma]

How can you do a repair if the battle hasn't even started yet?

[blissful karma]

Yes, I tried that too, with the same result as the sitrep. I tried to delete all my zones and use only the default ones. Now I can deploy, but only in a single corner of the map (which happens to be lava...), this zone growing to 2x2 squares after I deploy my first Lancer.

[teal sundial]

can u send a screenshot of your zones and triggers

[hazy ferry]

You do full repairs before starting the battle

[glad lotus]

You know, I think I added that as a house rule in my game, too. 🤔 Might have made it a protocol, can't remember.

[blissful karma]

As a trigger?

[blissful karma]

The hotspot "Zone 1" covers all the lava (in order to incite foes to avoid it and push the player in).

Although the situation changed now. I can deploy, but only like this:

[hazy ferry]

I think in the mech selection menu

[blissful karma]

I didn't make any change to the zones since.

[teal sundial]

ok so idk about the regular sitreps, for for custom sitrep you need a trigger at the start that deploys the player lancers at zone 'entry'. as for whats happening in regular sitreps.. not sure..

[thin lark]

You should test whether it's possible to deploy on bridges at all.

Like, have a normal blank map, see if you can get it working on that - and then if you can, test moving the Entry zone to on top of a bridge, see if that's what's doing it.

[thin lark]

I have found a repeatable bug in the conversation editor:

• When switching from Blocks to Code, it works fine.
• When switching from Code to Blocks, choice indents are not properly preserved.

Minimal reproduction conversation:

narrator: Option A, or Option B?
- narrator: Option A
    narrator: A was chosen
- narrator: Option B
    narrator: B was chosen
=> END```
If you put that into the Code text box for some conversation, and then convert it to blocks and back, you get this:
```~ conversation_1
narrator: Option A, or Option B?
narrator: A was chosen
- narrator: Option A
narrator: B was chosen
- narrator: Option B
=> END```
In fact, if you just make a conversation and paste in the first box, you actually get the results of the second box.  It works when you convert from Blocks mode into it, but it doesn't work when you copy and paste it into the editor.

[thin lark]

Unrelated to that...

• The Variable Sword claims it's Accurate, but that accuracy doesn't seem to be applying?

And I am still getting infrequent crashes, typically when I've finished one action and something else is about to happen. Latest one was moving a unit via standard move and then it crashed before I could select any further actions.

Let me know if there's anything useful I can do to track those down

[alpine sorrel]

Could you post an autosave with one of the games that crashed? Even if it's not reproducible I could poke around at it.

(ty for the reports, once again!!)

[alpine sorrel]

mule harness is real

[wraith cradle]

I can already tell people are gonna be doing some silly ass things with this.

[blissful karma]

Good call. On a test map, I couldn't deploy on a bridge either, only having access to the corner of the map, as in my lava pit. Once the bridge is taken out, deployment can go as it's supposed to. Foes can deploy on them, though.

[thin lark]

You could have some pillars of non-bridge mostly visually hidden, just to support the player entry zone. It’ll probably look ok, although I am presuming the bridges are easier to blow up

[lilac anchor]

Hey that building looks new!

[thin lark]

Does it? I think it’s in the editor at the moment… now I feel the urge to go check :)

[lilac anchor]

Is it?

I haven’t seen a white building w/ black lines

[proud dirge]

MULE HARNESSSSSSSSSSSSS

[heady iris]

[torpid orbit]

how is the paid version?

how many mechs does it have?

does it have a campaign yet?

[thin lark]

No campaign, but the tutorial makes me really want the campaign to come, it's a solid hook as well as a fine tutorial

So far it has all (corebook only) of SSC and Horus, most of HA and IPS-N, with the Lancaster coming soon (there's screenshots and video of it being worked on upthread)

[heady iris]

a good bunch and more to come

[thin lark]

The interface is lovely and sleek, though it still doesn't provide all the information I want all of the time (especially pilot talents, it's easy to forget them when you're dealing with three or four pilots and some of them don't show up in the status bar)

There's music, it's good music, more would be nice but it's not a big deal, just having any at all is really nice for a project at this stage, it helps quite a bit.

Sound effects are present, adequate, nothing special I would say? There's some nice UI clicks and you know when stuff is firing a gun or swinging a sword, which is solid enough for me. I've never been unhappy at them!

[heady iris]

lesson of the held image is acting strange
used it once but now it's not letting me target the demolisher in front of me after a new round started

[torpid orbit]

is this game planed to be modable in the future? or rn?

[thin lark]

In general, I have been enjoying my time with it more than I thought I would given how far along it is, and wanting very much for it to get bigger and better and so on. It's a lot of fun if you avoid the areas that are unfinished or missing content.

Modding is planned, I'm not an authoritative source on that but Olive mentioned wanting modding before Steam release so I'm pretty confident it's on the to-do list somewhere. It might be possible to kludge something together right now but it won't be easy at all and I'm not sure if you can convince the game to load it without the direct help of a developer, plus you'll need to guess at the API from blog posts or suchlike. Effectively no.

[heady iris]

this is baldur's gate but you're durge on a blackbeard

[torpid orbit]

so,,,Strider

[thin lark]

Apologies, you're 100% correct, that building IS new. And looks to have 3d detailing too. Much fancier looking than the one in the editor right now.

[lilac anchor]

I KNEW I WASNT CRAZY

[thin lark]

It was merely my memory insisting the buildings we already have looked better than they actually do :)

Speaking of buildings, here is a map without any:

Has anyone mentioned that when picking licenses for a pilot, you can't actually see what mounts each frame has?

[thin lark]

I love how the NPC descriptions are all "but they aren't especially durable"... they have 16 HP at tier 1!

[latent sandal]

Green goop :))

[weak willow]

You can search for my map "flooded_complex.json" in this thread and see how I played with bridges in that one

I ended up having to use block pillars in the middle of most bridge tiles to enable deployment zones and other embellishments. Essentially bridges can only have rails and that's it. They also get blown up really easy.

[thin lark]

Tempest drone isn't recording its effect in the log. It's happening, but it's just a random Hull check. I think it should also be a Hull save, as well, though maybe it is and the log just says they're checks?

(It was next to a tempest drone, also)

[proud dirge]

mag cannon is currently triggering pull on SUCCESSFUL hull save?

[thin lark]

Ah that explains why it never worked for me on a failed hull save. I think the mag cannon weirdness is known though.

A mech's speed is a really useful number, and I can't find it for enemies anywhere. It would be good to have on the stat panel popup

Perhaps in the same line as Evasion and E-Def? I think there's room to cram speed in there.

Or it could have its own line if it's viewed as important enough. It's quite useful for planning.

[tepid temple]

The way fire emblem does it is that you see how far the enemy moves when you move the cursor over them

[thin lark]

That would also be acceptable, though there's often quite a lot of similar overlays going on. That said, being able to see what an enemy can see from their current position via mouseover would also be really useful.

[fickle pecan]

Not really having any way to know your hide action wont immediately be wasted is a little frustrating yeah

[teal sundial]

Heres a little proof-of-concept using the combat editor me and @weak willow have been cooking up. Use custom map settings. I recommend LL3

[heady iris]

it was fun seeing her get scared after i got in range of my burst launcher turn 1

[lilac anchor]

Horror upon horror! No buildings!?

[latent sandal]

Holy shit mcdonal

[heady iris]

it was a fun map

looking forward to see more like thiss

[gritty spire]

damn that was so fun

i think this map made me see how much potential a campaing and custom comunity maps really have

[thin lark]

There's quite a lot of control in the map editor. You can add equipment to frames, change stuff around, destroy or possibly even create terrain, though I need to check that, but I think I saw rocks as some of the stuff you can spawn, and you can stand on the big ones...

alter the water level... zones, conversations...

Honestly just the conversation editor is better than many dialog tree packages out there. I would happily use that conversation editor in ANY game that needs conversation boxes

[heady iris]

gonna have to ask you guys how you made custom map settings work

[thin lark]

Even without any direct connection stuff, we can approximate a 'campaign' right now, by having maps where you get to choose stuff, and then just telling you which map to load next.

Download the map, open it in the editor, and have a look!

[heady iris]

sure will

[thin lark]

(But mostly it's a custom trigger to spawn the player lancers and a separate custom trigger to spawn the first wave of enemy NPCs, along with an objective so there's something to do)

[weak willow]

Hmmm it looks like all the walls of the base got rotated to a default position, not sure what's up with that

Pipes and rails too

[proud dirge]

this was really fun!!!!

love the villain character

[thin lark]

When a map with Fumeroles has been loaded by default (typically it was the last map looked at when the program was closed) and then you go to a new map, or load a different map, some of the fumeroles are still there emitting particles, even though they're not objects on the map anymore

Exiting to menu and restarting the combat editor fixes this, if anyone needs a workaround

(If you ever have a separate bug tracker you'd prefer I'd put these on rather than just... leaving them in this chat channel, please let me know. I am also happy to make itch.io discussion forum threads for them instead, if that's better.)

[alpine sorrel]

These work fine, Marko comes through and collects them every so often into Trello tickets.

This particular one I already noticed and fixed.

[heady iris]

@alpine sorrel just tried and foward+ seems working fine on my 4080 super

[thin lark]

The editor doesn't fail gracefully when you hit the multimesh limit by placing too many terrain cubes

Everything becomes invisible, and deleting the cubes again takes -ages- (Several seconds per operation)

But it -does- handle it, which is good, if you can remember where there's terrain to delete some to get under the limit again

[alpine sorrel]

Oh, what multimesh limit are you hitting?

A while back you'd get a bunch of cursed geometry when going over certain thresholds and it had to increase the buffer, but that should be fixed.

[thin lark]

 HIT a multimesh limit; increasing to block count 7221   and ramp count 3600 
 HIT a multimesh limit; increasing to block count 10821   and ramp count 0 
 HIT a multimesh limit; increasing to block count 7221   and ramp count 3600 ```

Repeat ad-infinitum

I added a lot of blocks up to the height limit, very roughly 60x10x[10 - the height limit is 10]

[alpine sorrel]

Ah, great, I don't think we ever stress tested that.

Filling out large sections up to the limit

[thin lark]

I'm carving a cliff face so I started by basically using the Stack mode to fill half the entire map, yes.

[thin lark]

Also I don't recall being able to remove the 1st block layer before I started this, to expose the bedrock layer underneath

And now I can? Or maybe I just didn't try hard enough before :)

[alpine sorrel]

Guess not. That's been in forever 🙂

[thin lark]

Road | Asphalt | Lined looks and acts identically to the other Road | Asphalt (Or if it doesn't, there's nothing that looks or seems different about it.)

[alpine sorrel]

Are you in f+ or compatibility mode? If you haven't switched to compat, a line of it should make road markings. (This uses tech that's not available in compat mode)

[thin lark]

I am in f+

Tried painting it on or using the trowel to add blocks of it, doesn't look any different to me. I assumed it was supposed to make road markings in some way, so not sure why it's not. Haven't tried it on a map where I'm not using 90%+ of the capacity for blocks, though :)

[thin lark]

I'm not supposed to be able to create overhangs, right?

(Fill to map height limit, switch to paint tool, right click on top layer, and it deletes the layer just under that while leaving the top layer intact)

[alpine sorrel]

Yeah that's a bug! Ty

[blissful karma]

Hey there. I've just been told I'm using an old version of the game. I created an account on itch.io to get the latest, but it just won't download. Is there a solution to this issue? Thanks!

[proud dirge]

what version are you on?

[thin lark]

Is it showing as purchased on itch.io?

Unrelated to that, I have a hydra and I chose to start with a Guardian drone. On that hydra's turn, I can also deploy a second Guardian drone.

Probably not meant to be able to do that :)

Oh, apparently you can just deploy them as often as you like. Hah.

[alpine sorrel]

Hahaha

[alpine sorrel]

Hm I've not heard of this happening. What step of downloading fails? Are you able to get to the download page and press the download button and nothing happens, or...?

[thin lark]

... I build a cliff map, and then completely forget the enemy can knock me off the cliff. 6 damage from a ram, oof.

I swear the dieroller hates me. Projected shield, guardian drone, imposing 3 difficulty against attack. They roll 12-2+1, hit. Three d6 and none were higher than a 2...

[thin lark]

I have a (slightly) more useful report on the crashes, which still happen. They almost never happen early in a session, but leaving the game running for long enough seems to make it a lot more likely

[thin lark]

Hmm. You can fire through the no-movement-allowed zones. Perhaps we could also get a "no LoS through here" zone?

Or maybe it's just the way I've used it, I'm not certain.

They fired from there to there

Isometric view of same

Maybe what I actually want is to bring it down a Z-level or two.

[alpine sorrel]

The no move allowed zones should also being blocking LOS, sounds like another bug 👍

[blissful karma]

"Lancer Tactics Bone" 0_02_05 for PC.

[blissful karma]

No. I participated in the initial crowdfunding. By following the link in Olive's 42nd project update (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wickworks/lancer-tactics/posts/4452856), I got to my "backerkit manager page for Lancer Tactics", which is where I could download this "Lancer Tactics Bone" 0_02_05 for PC version.

[blissful karma]

"Are you able to get to the download page and press the download button and nothing happens" Yup. That's exactly what's happening.

[alpine sorrel]

That sounds like potentially a browser issue. Try using a private window, disabling extensions, or switching browsers?

[weak willow]

That's what I'd try

The 2 times a year Edge is useful

[heady iris]

my blackbeard got proned but i still got to teleport with the knives even if prone characters count as slowed

god i just realised that a prone sekhmet doesn't get up
it'll just keep dragging itself to the next target
that's a nightmare fuel xD

and i also was able to lounge with my talent while prone

[lethal leaf]

I'm pretty sure it will stand up and boost if it can't crawl there with standard movement.

[heady iris]

ah nice
that makes the most sense

[glad lotus]

you're already close enough, standing up is a waste of effort when I could simply rip and tear more

• Sekhmet

[heady iris]

while thinking a blackbeard build i had the idea to use retractable systems from swallowtail, this way i can control sekhmet a little and make it not attack
it's been working lovely so far i'm proud of this configuration
but when i end retractable systems on my turn, sekhmet stops being automatic and i can choose how to attck the next target

[heady iris]

also when i press the continue sekhmet protocol and the sekhmet moves even one space closer to the target, the end retractable systems button disappears and i can't deactivate it

[weak willow]

i don't even understand Retractable Systems normally

[thin lark]

Ahh, no Raleigh License means I can't do tricks with loading weapons as easily.

[fickle pecan]

you can do some fun stuff with barbarossa but yeah :(

[alpine sorrel]

Raleigh is imminent, I'm working on making a build to publish this evening that finishes IPSN

[thin lark]

oooh, unexpected surprise of multiple frames, thanks, hope it goes well :)

[alpine sorrel]

There'll more unaddressed reported bugs than I'd like for a release but I don't think anything critical, and I'll be out the rest of the week for PAX

So c'est la vie

[proud dirge]

TONIGHT?

mashallah habibi

[lilac anchor]

TONIGHT???

[spark bolt]

bought this game yesterday and it's been so nice to being able to get a grasp on some of the core lancer rules!

[thin lark]

Hmm... something is clearly going wrong with either the map editor saving or something else, because I have loads of _savefile_savefile_savefile levels

[thin lark]

Is there a way to input specific waypoints for movement? I was attempting to use a First Gate Duat to get someone to move through three dimensional emblems, but obviously you need to move in a rather weird way to do that, and it stopped when I clicked once.

[weak willow]

raleigh and tortuga? It's Christmas.

[thin lark]

There is no soft cover I can see applying here - we're both flying. Save will be attached momentarily.

[teal flame]

what are you attacking?

[thin lark]

A hornet

[teal flame]

hm

they shouldn't be getting free soft cover like some mechs

[proud dirge]

did you get warp sensor'd

[teal flame]

oh or that

[thin lark]

Nope.

It might be drawing a very, very high upward field of cover from the metal scrap?

But it's not putting the soft cover icon on it like it usually does for obstruction

I've checked all the passives I can see on both mechs as well, nothing mentions soft cover

Bleh that's worse than not spoilering it.

(No way to make that small, apparently)

And then, unrelated to the cover issue, I rolled a pair of 1s to attack!

[thin lark]

Also, you have a note on the itch.io page for Lancer Tactics warning people about something that happened in August 2026, and that's not for a year yet. Unless that's not the date, of course.

[alpine sorrel]

haha thx

getting ahead of myself

[spark bolt]

I noticed ya can't reload with stabilize without using repair or clear heat, but you have to have heat otherwise you can't use clear heat basically to skip it if you have 0 heat

[thin lark]

You can just pick Skip, though?

It only shows up when you have no damage and no heat.

[spark bolt]

Oh I'll have to check again then, I didn't see that option

[spark bolt]

Ah so if you have damage or heat you have to do one of them instead of being able to skip

I think my case was I had to use a repair even if I wasn't missing much

[lethal leaf]

There's nothing in the rules that says you can't clear heat even if your heat is at 0.

[alpine sorrel]

I just addressed this as part of my pre-build playtest. 👍

I left the skip in for the primary & disable "cool" to make it more clear that nothing will happen, but made sure that you also weren't forced into repairing by having the skip show up if your only option otherwise would be to spend a repair.

[alpine sorrel]

v0.3.4 is live: https://wick.itch.io/lancer-tactics/devlog/1017336/all-ips-n-mechs-implemented

[teal flame]

ooooh hell yes

...is hyperdense armour meant to be affecting tech attacks?

especially effects like banish

[alpine sorrel]

meaning it's causing them to deal half heat?

[teal flame]

yeah

and me to deal half to them

[alpine sorrel]

yes I think that's how it works RAW

[icy creek]

it is yeah. hyperdense affects all attacks

[teal flame]

right, but should it affect stuff like Banish or Chains Of Prometheus?

and if it does affect banish, it probably shouldn’t cap out at 3

[icy creek]

the usual understanding is that resisting a tech attack also resists any delayed heat from that tech attack- i.e bracing a tear down also halves the delayed heat

not sure how banish's cap should work

[stable smelt]

I think, though it comes up rarely if at all, that banish's cap should still be 6 heat if it's been resisted/halved/etc.

or possibly it's 'heat taken on the target's side before reduction' which would make it 3 heat if resisted(took 6 as three hits of 2 heat, was reduced), but 6 heat if the outgoing heat was halved(took 6 as six hits of 1 heat)

(also notably hyperdense is dynamic, so if they move into range 3 of you they should take 2 heat and not 1, still up to 6)

[thin lark]

Glorious differently coloured piles of debris!

(Being able to paint the rock spires would be amazing, mind you, but the additional bits will be good.)

[thin lark]

Tiny little bug:

These are separate grunt snipers, even if they have the same name.

Nexus icon is very hard to read and small compared to any of the others

Drake's Fortress Protocol preview is showing that it draws the line from the top left corner, not whichever corner is closest.

And it then puts the cover in those squares, which isn't ideal.

[thin lark]

Tech attack from a goblin, Liturgicode isn't being counted. When rolled, isn't applying either (should be cancelling out Hardened Target, but it was added as difficulty)

Didn't apply to either of these

[heady iris]

IPSN upgrade

[proud dirge]

ES UN TORTUGAAAAAAA AHHHHHHHH

[fickle pecan]

sickos yes

[weak willow]

https://tenor.com/view/kenavy-mecha-shield-shotgun-gif-8154584101260388440

[lilac anchor]

cracking open the new update, its time for the 4 tortugas

[weak willow]

I'm trying out like 4 different Raleigh's first

[alpine sorrel]

Ty for the reports 🙏 what do you mean "being able to paint the rock spires"?

[hazy ferry]

Does the game still let you start a combat with all mechs destroyed?

[thin lark]

Right now they are green and match the grass, but like we can paint (some) mechs, it would be great for map making if generic objects like rock spires and possibly other stuff could be painted a palette of colours. Sandstone, rock, maybe a few more come to mind, but people will use whatever paint options we get, I’m sure :)

[alpine sorrel]

Oh I see! Noted. 🙂

[fickle pecan]

Rapid Burst Jump Jets and Ace 2 are meant to work together, I believe, and don't seem to? Another potential ordering issue is using the duelist dice granted by a main attack (duelist 2) to activate duelist 3 off of the same attack which hasn't been working

and stuff size 2 or larger, when deploying, displays as size 1 at first

until they're actually deployed and then it's fine

[alpine sorrel]

For ace 2/rbjj, I noodled on it some but couldn't find a good solution before this release. At what point are we expecting ace 2 to trigger?

1. At the start of the jump, while you're still planning your movement (opening up the possibility of rolling the die, spending heat, and then cancelling and staying still), or
2. at the end of the jump's movement while you're still in the air (you don't know if you're going to actually reach whatever you were moving towards & have poor visibility whether the ability will trigger before you jump)?

[thin lark]

If they’re already flying and hit boost, they should be asked “do you want to trigger ACE 2 for 1d6 movement and some heat?” when boost is pressed, right? So likewise I think option 1 makes sense. Maybe with a warning that it will cost heat immediately even if the move is cancelled

That or it becomes its own optional ability that can only be triggered when a) you have used boost and b) you are flying. Less automation but better control over heat, and easier cancels, and you’ll never know how much you get before pressing it anyway?

2a (manually triggered if you’ve used boost and are flying) is then friendlier, probably better user experience.

[fickle pecan]

mb on duelist 3, I think it was just overzealous use of knockback making the target out of range, oops

siege ram is really fun! I broke the floor a guy was standing on haha

For rectractable profile and hyperdense armour, it feels a bit weird having the deactivate button always available?

[fickle pecan]

Can't get javelin rockets to work at all 😭 I'm sure they've worked in a previous version though - it just goes into targeting but clicking doesn't do anything

[fickle pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/sickos-sicko-haha-yes-creeper-gif-25057805

this is everything

(though - some mule things; I assume it uses knockback internally, cause it activates armour lock plating prompting! There's some weirdness with flying where the rider inconsistently stays flying sometimes, which breaks adjacency too. Adjacency otherwise works really well for e.g argonaut shield! When deploying after ending the previous mission riding, without doing a full repair, the riding character retains the dismount prompt. Another result of how it seems to work internally is that the rider is immune to knockback/prone - which seems reasonable! just did just wanna point it out as seemingly that's the 'counter' to mule harness and why I took armour lock plating in the first place)

[alpine sorrel]

I knew it would generate a lot of weirdness. Thanks for the list 👍

[fickle pecan]

more specifically it seems like rapid burst jump jet works great, but the fly provided by Lunge is breaking it

[lethal leaf]

You shouldn't actually be able to fly while carrying more than a size 1/2 if you aren't in zero G.

[fickle pecan]

oh, how come?

[thin lark]

The rules just say you can't

(Unless you're a Taraxacum)

on page 63

[fickle pecan]

damn, obscure

[lethal leaf]

People want to have cool flying mech carriers, but they couldn't.

[torpid crane]

the sins of Dunk Wing have forever changed the world

[glad lotus]

This is so that a flying size 2 can't trivially grapple enemies, fly 10 spaces up, and instantly kill them with fall damage

Players will abuse fall damage as much as possible as soon as you give them an inch, lol.

[stable smelt]

RAW, I think it's 1 - though I don't know if it's possible, but I'd do like a weird midpoint where you roll immediately but only take heat for moving the additional spaces.

2 is more generous and I'd also favor it, but as you said it might be hard to display

[proud dirge]

javelin rockets are broken, at least on agni river

also manticore took 2 heat for the 1 heat overcharge while destruction of the temples was active?

ya javelin rockets are broken i think

i can select the system but i cant put down any rockets

[flint portal]

I believe it kicks off from the moment you boost, so you roll, are allowed to move that many more spaces and always take half of that as heat

[weak willow]

Roland is the greatest mech ever

Tortuga with HMG is cracked out

[teal flame]

okay so

i think that hack/slash isn't working?

or at least, it's applying "disable life support"'s debuff?

[glad lotus]

I am super psyched that Tortuga is in now, because DSAS is amazing and has so many uses

It's great at:

• blasting stuff close to you
• blasting stuff slightly further from you
• blasting stuff close to you
• and, last but not least, blasting stuff close to you

[weak willow]

I prefer to use it to blast things in my local area

[mild jay]

But what if you want to blast stuff that’s nearby?

[smoky glacier]

dsas with throughbolts 😌

bring along a daisy cutter if you want to blast your local area

[glad lotus]

Ah, well in that case I recommend you employ the DSAS.

It truly is a multipurpose tool.

(Seriously though, GMS shotty feels so sad compared to a 1 license dip for DSAS.)

[worn tiger]

The DSAS is a magical hammer that can turn any problem you put in front of it into a nail.

[weak willow]

Cyclone pulse rifle Raleigh is here

Where is your god now

His herald is OpCal and his messenger is Mjolnir

[minor trench]

😔 I tried to break thorugh the walls with Tortuga in some of the maps and couldn't.

But so excited to see more of the features being implemented! This is coming along faster than I thought!

[slender kindle]

Hey devs, may I ask if I can donate sprites for the mech?

And if so what sprite size should be

[hazy ferry]

If only the funny Bloodborne Mech was also here

[slender kindle]

The what now?

White witch?

[worn tiger]

Stortebeker, but that's from dustgrave and only CRB is planned to be added iirc

[alpine sorrel]

We're not taking volunteer contributions atm (aside from bug reports) but mod support for custom tokens is high on the post Kickstarter list. Size 1 mechs use a 80x80, with a front and back version.

[slender kindle]

Splendid lad

I will post my future pixel LANCER mech art in ... somewhwre else. Feel feee to visit

[grim mantle]

no clue if anyone has pointed this out yet but i cant seem to paint my Lanny

(that said i love this update, huge fan of the project .3c)

[alpine sorrel]

All the mech tokens that have chunky pixels are placeholders until Gen gets to them, so we didn't bother rigging them up as recolorable (apart from the Balor fire which I wanted to see how intense it would be glowing)

[grim mantle]

AAAAAH!!! i was just toying around with a Balor! ty, dont tell my friends but i was building an "All-Star" comp with all of the tables we've played together + the challenge of only using CRB, it's been v fun i am nerding abt this so normally hehe

[thin lark]

the Flooded Complex community map lacks an endzone - which is fine, but it could probably have opposite corners or sides defined as entry/endzone and function just fine

[thin lark]

Got a bug with Puppet Systems:

This is the preview:

It rightfully says "Oh if you puppet that beserker, it'll fall off, and get stuck there."

But what actually happens is the beserker moves to the end of the line, even if it couldn't reach there, climbing -any- obstacle to get there

Which considering the terrain looks like this:

Is both hilarious, and very wrong. Also the poor beserker takes falling damage twice in one move.

Here is an autosave to make reproducing it easier:

[thin lark]

Bug with Suppress from archers - One of them that had Suppress on the Tortuga just used it on the Sherman, but it hasn't gone away from Tortuga, and there's still the laser-pointer visual effect linking it to the Tortuga. Nevertheless, the Sherman has two copies of Suppress in their status bar (as another archer had already tagged them)

Actually moving the Tortuga on their next turn just silently clears Suppress, although I think that's an LoS thing maybe? Even with Suppress gone that way, the laser pointer style line is still there

[thin lark]

Playing the boarding map (is fun!) it would be lovely to have even a very basic form of Prepare. Even if it's something as simple as Prepare, pick a (skirmishable) weapon, shoot any enemy moving into a burst 1 zone

Arcing isn't seeking, probably shouldn't be allowed through the No-Map-Zones.

[sand goblet]

If seeking can get there, arcing can get there

the difference between arcing and seeking is whether it ignores cover

[thin lark]

The rulebook actually says different things to that. (To be clear, it also says effectively that later on, in a tag list, but I was looking at the line of sight rules at the time)

I am reading this part here, specifically. Comp-con does just say that if there's a path Arcing works, but I am unsure that interpretation fits with "must be physically possible" and "lob projectiles over obstacles" (And I have found the paragraph it takes that from, in the weapon tags later on)

I think the above case represents "50 feet of metal bulkhead" pretty closely, and I think almost all uses of the "this space is just not playable space" tile used in several maps would fit that as well.

I'm not recommending that anything more complicated is done other than just checking whether the arcing line goes through the non-playable-area tiles, I don't think it needs or should have anything other than that binary check, but it would allow confined maps like this to feel more like they're confined, and support maps with a giant pillar of uncrossable energy in the middle, as opposed to maps where there's a 10 story building in the way or something more conventional.

Mostly because I think having that differentiation is better for making different map designs feel different to play on.

[tidal tulip]

the "bullet" can take a circuitous route and hit. In the image you sent, the path can go north and avoid the walls entirely.

[sand goblet]

"are designed to lob projectiles over obstacles" is not rules text

the rules for arcing are very simple: the weapon ignores line of sight, provided there is some way for the projectile to reach its target

like seeking, you can't fire into a blinkshield bubble or into a completely enclosed room, but you can have your bullet twist and turn through an entire mazelike tunnel system as long as the target is within the listed range and there's some kind of path

[thin lark]

Noted. I think the map diversity will be worse under those conditions with no GM to decide otherwise given how common Arcing is compared to seeking, and also none of those things describe an arc, or follow any (edit: okay, many, possibly even most) of the descriptions in the book of what arcing weapons are, but the rules tag is very clear, yes. Perhaps it will one day be Indirect or something in a hypothetical updated edition.

[fickle pecan]

Acting like the answer here is objectively in the rulebook is besides the point

Like I agree that that is how arcing is mechanically balanced but at the same time acting like the rules text isnt explictly in the other direction is unnecessary

At the end of the day its just a decision about how to implement out of bounds map tiles

[gritty spire]

visual bug, he is stepping on my boi vlad's head! 😠

[wraith cradle]

Lanny no!!! You're going to take 1 AP damage!

[gritty spire]

also, was I supposed to be able to overpower caliber both the core weapon and a mount?

[tidal tulip]

No, for two reasons:

• You can't modify integrated weapons
• OpCal is only on one mount..

[gritty spire]

i thought so too, that's a bug then

[weak willow]

Intense glowing was completely the right decision imo

[weak willow]

It is supposed to have an end zone, I can double check and take a look

[fickle pecan]

Balor is pretty

[thin lark]

It's a really nice looking map! It was fun to play Holdout on it. I appreciated that the central zone had a ramp that size 2 units could use, and many things got rammed or pushed off of ledges :)

The AI seemed very happy to throw itself into the water to hide, which... I mean, it didn't help it much, but there were other potential places for them to stand so I don't think that was a map issue, more a strange decision. And it did get them cover, I'm just unsure why archers and a mirage were willing to happily accept Slowed in exchange for that.

[lilac anchor]

adding Eidolon fights to LT when /j

[weak willow]

having Drake/Tortuga/Monarch/Gorgon be able to run up and hold the center fort area was a specific consideration I built the map around, I am thrilled you are enjoying it!

[mild pollen]

I wanted to look at some gameplay of this before I buy it. However, there is nothing on youtube that I can find. Any place I can actually see the game before I buy?

[grand notch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQg3EjHlTlI <-- I found this. It's an older model, so there's less stuff, but this is more or less what it looks like.

[mild pollen]

Thanks! I musta missed this

[lilac anchor]

Mmmm I should make a video about lancer tactics

Someone remind me to do that later I do have obs

[thin lark]

I'm happy to stream some for you in a little bit if you want, also. Don't feel like narrating but happy to use text chat and just show it off, poke around in whatever you want to see.

[thin lark]

@mild pollen If you're still here or are around in the next 30-60 minutes, let me know if you want me to stream some.

[mild pollen]

I appreciate it but I bought it already XD

[thin lark]

:) Fair enough.

[weak willow]

You won't regret it

[mild pollen]

I have not. Holy crap this is cool

[weak willow]

To quote 11dragonkid:

"and the mech selection menu... Looks like sex"

[slender kindle]

Remember this made in godot

Truly god send from the dev

[mild pollen]

So I have just been tooling around with premade pilots and one I made matching them at LL3. Does the system balance correctly for higher LL's? What would be a sweet spot?

[weak willow]

Yes system auto balances to highest level mech you bring

But you can manually set it as well

It's in the same area you set reinforcements and pick enemy faction in Instant Action

[mild pollen]

ah, ty

[thin lark]

It auto balances entire tiers at a time, mind you, which means LL4 will feel probably easier than most GMs will run it, and LL5 will then be a big difficulty spike to all tier 2 enemies, which is (hopefully) harder than most GMs would run it

[thin lark]

(A custom campaign could avoid this by telling you when to increase license levels and blending tiers by hand, but nobody has yet created any multi map campaigns, it’s a lot of work.)

(It also looks like the game will have support for that sort of thing later but currently not yet, I think you’d have to just tell people to level themselves)

[proud dirge]

speak to that

why the crossword

[thin lark]

So they have something else to think about and distract them, perhaps?

[teal sundial]

requires both players to use verbal reasoning on top of strategy + makes verbal communication more difficult + funny mental image of a mech handler doing the crossword while on comms w/ mech pilot in a warzone

[weak willow]

"621. Got an across, 11-letter word that's always spelled incorrectly for you."

[proud dirge]

thank you so much gonna try this with a friend of mine tonight

[final mesa]

Just so I get the this, the lancer tactics player is essentially trying to describe the situation to the crossworder, and ask for what they should do, and the crossworder needs to build situational awareness from the conversation and pick the actions that the lancer player will take?

[thin lark]

In 30 second turn increments, while also solving a crossword before the match ends. I can’t play my turns in 30 seconds when focused!

[worn tiger]

The Handler is in charge of what happens in game, but cannot see the game and must have all information relayed to them by The Pilot

The Pilot can see the game but can only do what The Handler tells them to do

[thin lark]

Honestly I think the crossword is unnecessary! Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes proves that timed clear communication is difficult enough

[final mesa]

Yeah, the 30 seconds seems brutal.

[thin lark]

But maybe some people are fast thinking enough to need it.

[worn tiger]

I do think the 30 seconds is genuinely not enough to execute a turn on ones' own, much less while playing telephone

[thin lark]

It’s an easy difficulty knob to twiddle. Maybe 90 seconds at first, then working down. I also think immediate loss is perhaps less fun than “if the timer goes off you must press cancel then end turn immediately no matter what” leads to more chaotic fun?

[weak willow]

handler should also have a picture of the map

not blind to the white room topography

[glad lotus]

I absolutely take several times longer than that while focused and playing solo, lol.

[thin lark]

Maybe a two or three minute first turn where the pilot describes the map before deploying? Handler can then draw their own map :)

[teal sundial]

I was considering that honestly but I thought it'd bog it down a little

ye I chose 30 seconds kinda arbitrarily but the intention is that both parties are working overtime

[teal sundial]

noo that's half the fun

[thin lark]

“There’s, uh, there’s three bridges over a river, with some forests on either side, and the middle bridge is wider, and there’s some platforms near the middle bridge… uh, about half way down. Centre zone is in the centre, deploy is in the forest nearest, end zone is at the opposite end of the bridge, but it’s not quite straight it’s got little bends, and it’s one block high cover guardrail things along each edge” sort of thing

[alpine sorrel]

Omg incredible

[grim mantle]

oddly specific but if you make a new folder on the pilot roster and rename it but then add a new pilot without closing the pilot menu the folder renames itself back to "new category"

[weak willow]

If the payload gets stuck here by some bad luck, you cannot move it from this location

Might have something to do with the terrain created by a Bombard shot but... sadge.

hmm nvm it worked on the following turn

[proud dirge]

ok we tried this and had a lot of fun
thoughts: maybe handler should be playing tetris or doing something without words? also handler should drink too

[weak willow]

bro Raleigh is just cracked man

who needs tech attacks when you can just kill everything

IKWMH on Missile Racks is unreal damage

[worn tiger]

rackslinger is absolutely brutal, yeah

[weak willow]

even a pulse cyclone build is crazy

being able to do "other stuff" during the off turns is so good

immunity to Jammed

[teal sundial]

if having to think of words makes communication more difficult it's working as intended - is it causing any other issues? and ye it'd prob be better if the handler drunk too

[weak willow]

Any other absolutely nutty high performance builds like this that you know of? I've been trying to get familiar with all of the frames and change my perspective on ones I see as underperforming. Sometimes a single good build can change your entire perspective on a frame.

Not all the Custom Werks builds are created equal lol

[glad lotus]

HMG everest with Asura?

I'm not sure if OC-stabilize looping with a displacer is high performance or just memey. Do we have Napoleon in LT yet? 🤔

[lilac anchor]

Not yet

Sadly

[grim mantle]

Where are the pilots stored? i want to make a back up

[thin lark]

Presumably near where the saves and maps are stored, and there’s a useful open in explorer button in the map editor to get there

[grim mantle]

ty!

[thin lark]

Then up a couple of directories from there and there’s a saves folder for mission saves and I would be surprised if the pilots weren’t very nearby

[grim mantle]

found it, tysm

[heady iris]

mirage blipped crusher in the lava
funniest shit i've ever seen xD

[glad lotus]

[weak willow]

Yeah I actually ran both to compete against each other yesterday. I think the enemy concentration and terrain determines who wins in that matchup

[weak willow]

Haha this is even funnier when you consider it's notionally the "true location" the Demolisher was actually going

[glad lotus]

You're right, that is funnier

[weak willow]

"Bro don't ruin the surprise! I'm sneaking"

melting intensifies

[thin lark]

Sometimes it gets to me, just slightly, that the Demolisher was behind my squad the entire time and we just never noticed. And there was literally no way a size 2 mech could even get up here. Especially since it just arrived last round. Crazy how good those stealth skills are.

[weak willow]

Took a hidden license level in Deaths Head

[thin lark]

Funny how it's totally stuck there now we took out the Mirage. Must have been a limited use climbing assist.

It breaks down even harder if there's a Blink Anchor deployed.

Speaking of, has anyone played with adding Veteran to NPCs? Or made any new NPC groups? The three Lancer Tactics comes with covers most (almost all, except archer?) of the NPCs we have at the moment...

And they're all impressively mean and finely tuned. I should probably make some sort of mishmash of one of everything. A random order of what shows up would be nice.

[glad lotus]

Blink Anchor is paracausal blinkspace tech, tbf

[weak willow]

I don't even know what RPV or the difference between elite and veteran is tbh

[glad lotus]

RPV: +5 hp, permanently impaired
Veteran: +1 struct/stress, +1 accuracy to one of HASE, gets a pick off the veteran features list (a variety of cool and helpful things)
Elite: +1 struct/stress, 2 turns per round

[thin lark]

you can also stack them. You could have an Elite Veteran something or other.

possibly even an Elite Veteran RPV, though I would need to check that one, I can't remember if they're incompatible

[glad lotus]

I believe that does work, yeah

Can't combine Elite/Veteran with Grunt

[weak willow]

haha i didn't realize RPV was a handicap

[thin lark]

It's more neutral, I'd say. Having 5 extra HP is pretty nice. It makes you more vulnerable to tech stuff, and worse at what you're doing, but as we know from that IPS core bonus everyone likes... 5 extra hp is 5 extra hp.

(And it's really annoying if you're not forcing that many saves or making that many attacks. A Priest with +5hp is argh. And they offset the tech attack accuracy too.)

[thin lark]

Here, for anyone who wants to try something kinda funny... presented with almost no curation whatsoever, and I strongly suggest you go into the force and rearrange them at random every match, the Chewable Assortment, an npc reserve pack with one of every type of npc! They're all both veterans and elite.

And their colours do not match. At all.

(It goes in the /reserves folder off the main data folder, which I just learned can be found even easier by going Options -> Data and there's a button to open the top level data folder there)

[heady iris]

warp sensors did 2heat even while having hyperdense armor on

[thin lark]

The colour palette suggests you're in an Extreme Heat atmosphere, that adds +1 to all heat gain

So, 3, /2 = 1.5 rounding up to 2?

I mean I could be wrong, but it does look pretty red.

yeah, autosave says you're in extreme heat.

[proud dirge]

ya the extreme heat atmosphere was fucking with me too until i figured it out

[thin lark]

The rules for extreme cold don't make sense, they should include heat generating actions as things that count for not freezing up. Otherwise you can fire a tachyon cannon, make a huge heat plume behind you, and then vent the heat in an aura around you but also are immobilized due to cold...

but ah well. Such as it is.

[weak willow]

GM would be able to arbitrate that easily

many a time I gave my DnD players commonsense allowances like that

[tepid temple]

Lancer is not about "commonsense allowances" but the weather modifiers are... oddly tuned so it's a bit a moot point

[thin lark]

Does anyone know what the loading screen tip about Prepare says?

I read as far as "You can Prepare an action to... wait, can you? That-" and then it finished loading!

And it seemed funny and I'd love to know what the rest says.

[heady iris]

sadly got my raleigh hit bad by a hammer and got stunned while riding the lancaster
naturally as per mule harness effect it had to dismount at that point, but he was riding my mule together with my goblin and he got off as well for no reason

what the??? XD
i just rammed this berserker and missed, yet for some reason it made a hole under it in the undamaged bridge

i love that the latch drone of the lancaster has a water effect
in my head it's just him spitting on allies for getting hit now

[thin lark]

You have Seige Ram, which deals 10 AP damage to any terrain it hits. And bridges have terrible evasion :)

It is a bit weird that it triggered when you aimed at the beserker, may still be a bug, but that's why the bridge died.

[heady iris]

[thin lark]

When I fire this attack, it may hit. Not great chances but it did hit last time, before I loaded the autosave. Two reactions then trigger, one of them being Turret Drone. It's immensely unclear which thing it will target. I tried to shoot the witch with the turret drone, but instead shot myself.

Which was funny, but no, it should draw a line from the turret drone to the target it's proposing will get shot, I think.

[weak willow]

Missed the beserker but not the bridge 👿

[thin lark]

Also also, (though I feel there is no real solution to this from a Lancer Tactics point of view), I had two reactions trigger on that attack and I don't get to pick which order they're in, so Weave invariably triggers vs the first, best attack, and I get a low damage reaction through.

You could argue the bridge isn't in the cube that's being targetted, since the beserker is standing on the bridge. I think most GMs would make you choose the cube the beserker is in, or the cube the bridge is in. Also if it's not an area effect... it's not like seige ramming a goblin attached to someone will also deal 2 damage to what they're attached to, is it? Or other, similar "two characters in one space" effects. Atlas isn't in this, but it can do that...

[weak willow]

There's definitely ordering of attacks to bait out Weave: shoot with AR first, then HMG, for example.

But the AI also semi-intelligently holds onto Weave too, a lot more selectively than Hunker Down or Dig In

[heady iris]

hit a berserker with fragment signal
checks that the heat got halved because of hyperdense armor but the berserker was already exposed so it should've been 2

[thin lark]

Weave is against reaction attacks, and I don't think you ever get to pick the order of your own reactions in Lancer Tactics? I could be wrong.

[viscid oriole]

exposed doesn't double heat

[weak willow]

Weave definitely activates on primary attacks

[weak willow]

Am I wrong, or does Ghengis do exactly what Manticore wants to do but better and more effectively?

• same speed tier
• same aoe-with-an-AP-damage-type attack style
• both are heat buildup mechs but Genghis deals with it farrr more effectively
• Genghis has 1 more Armor
• manticore has better tech attack I guess but this relies on SYS investment which weakens HASE distribution and also investment into Goblin or Minotaur LL's
• Beckoner is comparable to Ace/Type-I boosting, with the benefit that heat can be dealt with more risk-free as opposed to taking damage which is permanent
• Krakatoa is just better than Arc Projector and has more talent synergy
• Manticore has better flavor though I won't argue that

[cedar hill]

Yes, you are wrong

[weak willow]

Forgot to mention OC looping with Heatfall which gives better action economy too

[weak willow]

Howso

[proud dirge]

manticore is tankier with resistance to two forms of damage

[cedar hill]

Genghis is just immune to one of those types of damage

But Resistance to energy is nice yeah

[weak willow]

Resistance to both, immunity to one is comparable imo

[teal flame]

the manticore is much more “stress/structure is a resource”

snd it actively does damage to nearby enemies when taking heat

really the general gameplan of the manticore is summed up in LL1 gear

[cedar hill]

Just kinda completely ignores the Manticore's suite of control options. Summon is amazing support for any aoe builds, Smite is a readily accessible ranged Stun which is pretty much totally unique in the game. Lightning Generator is a shitload of automatic damage, and EMP is situational but can completely nuke some sitreps with some setup (made easy with Beckoner/Summon). Where Genghis is a statbrick that does damage, Manticore has a lot more utility and control options

[teal flame]

the manticore is a really great frame, it just gets memed about way too hard

part of why i’m glad the lycan exists

[weak willow]

Yeah I'm not dissing it for sure just trying to see its niche properly

[cedar hill]

Lean more into those control options and I think you'll see the light

[weak willow]

Will check it out from that pov

I think I'm trying to come at it from that striker perspective and just wishing I had Genghis knstead

[teal flame]

the minotaur is all about getting up close to large groups of enemies

[weak willow]

I was using Mino with its slowing and stun systems and getting annoyed because I could've just used a different mech that killed em

Mino took so long to get close enough and then the slowing didn't stop them from attacking unless I was fighting Oops All Bersekers

[worn tiger]

That is what teammates are for

The Controller makes the enemies ineffective and easily killable, and then their squadmates clean up said enemies

And while the controller's friends could've won on their own, it's a lot easier to win a fight against people who can't shoot back and are being constantly forced out of cover

[fickle pecan]

wrt resistances there is also the fact that energy damage is arguably more common than burn in enemy loadouts and, because of the manticore license itself, more common on a self damage basis

(in terms of raw numbers, 3 npcs do energy, 2 do both, and 2 do only burn)

[weak willow]

relevant info for sure

[thin lark]

I don't think it's supposed to then

[weak willow]

Wow that would make them a lot easier to hit lol

[glad lotus]

The other solution is putting Genghis weapons on a Manticore. Plasma thrower manti, my beloved.

[weak willow]

I was about to actually try this as an LL 6 build!

[glad lotus]

It's a lot of fun

I played that in a TT Lancer game for a long while

Season with DSAS to taste

[weak willow]

Yep it has DSAS hahaha

"my my you're looking unperforated today, I can help"

[proud dirge]

thats a good idea.... i normally put toku ranks on manticore..

[sturdy basin]

Sorry if i missed this, when i rest how do i activate Balor's Self Perpetuating trait?

[thin lark]

I think it should just let you repair without costing anything? You click the 10/22 HP button and it goes back to 22, or whatever?

[sturdy basin]

Oh alright. I thought it'd be automatic, i will try that. Thanks

[alpine sorrel]

Yeah I couldn't figure out a good way for it to be automatic. If I do it at the end of a mission normally, it would be missed if the Balor is exiled by fold space. I need to rig up a special workaround but until then just gave a repair total discount.

[weak willow]

plasma launcher is goated

[weak willow]

Overkill?

[sturdy basin]

Are there Npc weapons that have Overkill?

Wait I figured out whats wrong

My bad

[final mesa]

So, what PC content is left to create? From what I've read we got like, 95% of the Mechs? And all (but one) of the CBs? I assume some talents still aren't in, but Olive you've been killing it.

[weak willow]

HA mech or two still

handful of the Talent trees and i think only 1 CB

[final mesa]

Damn, that's incredible. I know there's still more to go and all, but wow, that's a huge accomplishment.

[glad lotus]

A big chunk of the NPC roster isn't in yet

Most of those are probably easier to implement than PC shenanigans, though

[alpine sorrel]

That's definitely my hope, esp with the lessened pressure to be 100% RAW and with kais rebake

[final mesa]

Yeah, I was specifically asking about PC content, I know there's still plenty of work regarding NPCs, mission structuring, AI, etc. but in terms of being a little thing where you can put together a Lancer build and see a bit what it does, that's pretty much done. Which is pretty huge.

[thin lark]

If all the content I want to use is in here I find it much quicker and easier to select a build in LTactics than in comp con. And then I can -actually- test it :)