Lancer Tactics

[alpine sorrel]

I stg the goblin CP is going to be a source of bugs from now until release

None of the new frames will have Gen's art for them yet, so I'm falling back to blobertson's until she finishes them.

I also haven't quite finished the duskwing -- OASIS wall was giving me enough trouble I might punt on it until the next release

The dynamic zone idea came from Kat, here — I've been thinking about it since she said it and the flashbang was finally the prompt to implement them.

oh jeez that was a year ago 😵‍💫

[elfin peak]

Thats one heck of a changelog, so many new mechs!

[ashen kindle]

Perfect form mentioned

[tepid cipher]

Something something featherless quadroped

[lilac anchor]

That’s gonna be a lot of stuff, we salute your work!

[lilac anchor]

It’s literally perfect why did we bother with an updated version

[flint portal]

I love how the name stuck

[alpine sorrel]

It's so good

[teal flame]

isn’t the flashbang kinda a status effect of sorts?

i swear there’s something else that can trigger it

centimane?

although that does still need an area, fair

[boreal dust]

can perfect form somehow find its way into the final release?

[tepid temple]

Campaign superboss

[lilac anchor]

^^^^

Make it the secret boss you gotta implement a secret code for or something

So what enemy squads and builds have yall made so far?

[heady iris]

still not sure why some core powers show up as systems that can then be targetted for system trauma

[heady iris]

was testing some co-pilot goblin on a flying sniper tokugaua and indeed something happened xD

i decided to risk it and overstress, when i did my goblin got a reactor meltdown becoming exposed but then it fell from the sky
thing is they are still linked

[alpine sorrel]

😔✍️

[alpine sorrel]

I probably just forgot to mark them as traits. Lmk if you see any more

[heady iris]

sorrrrrrryyyy

this game will be great!

[hazy ferry]

Is this Quantum Entanglement?

[alpine sorrel]

I don't know what that means so probably not

[hazy ferry]

It's a jesting reference to a quantum physics thing where sometimes two sub-molecular particles become the same in all ways except physical location

[lilac anchor]

Oh today’s the day for the next build right?

[alpine sorrel]

That was the plan, but I'm going through some bug reports in the backlog and I think I need to address them before making a new build.

dunno if I'll be able to do them all and make a new build — so may be pushed to tomorrow

[lilac anchor]

o7

Take all the time needed!

I think I can speak for most folks here when I say take all the time you need

[teal sundial]

anyone have ideas on how 2 make NHPs distinguishable but visibly nonhuman in the face editor? I'm at a loss atm

[alpine sorrel]

I should know better at this point to give specific dates for releases lol. I finally got enough bug reports about mysterious & unassailable crashes from using godot's Forward+ renderer (using Vulcan, etc) that I am making the call to downgrade to Compatibility mode for the base game instead of using it as a fallback.

This should make things work faster & more stably on older hardware. But it's also meant that I've spent all of today ripping apart the renderer and trying to get it working again on a lower-power pipeline... terrain dappling, water, the outside border effect, glow effects, and camera zoom levels are all still broken.

I'm getting 60 FPS on a huge monitor tho (where before expanding that large would be 30-45 FPS) so I think this is still the right direction.

[crimson merlin]

Oh no

*glances at own project in Forward+

[alpine sorrel]

Yeah I'm honestly pretty disappointed in Godot here. Like there weren't a lot of hardware crashes reported but the number I want for such a low-fidelty game is near zero. Feels like forward+ should only be used if you're not expecting a broad audience, are targeting consoles/controlled hardware, or your graphical style needs one of the features.

[crimson merlin]

I wonder how much of that is video card drivers? I've had problems with every Nvidia driver released this year

[alpine sorrel]

Here's a crashlog:

Vulkan 1.2.283 - Forward+ - Using Device #0: AMD - AMD Radeon Pro 570

FMOD Sound System: Successfully initialized
FMOD Sound System: Live update enabled!
 [ LANCER TACTICS v0.2.10 ]
Warning: Could not find existing game settings file! Creating a new one. Code: {7}
1.0fps                         ~| ~~ Load game content ~~ START  
Screen size : (5120, 2880)     DPI : 217    minimum : (2560, 1440)
Large high-DPI screen detected. Halving 3D world resolution and doubling UI.
~~~~~~~~~    New level "LevelTitle" ready     ~~~~~~~~~~~
20.0fps              3271 ms ~| ~~ Load game content ~~ FIN 
ERROR: Condition "err != VK_SUCCESS" is true. Returning: FAILED
   at: fence_wait (drivers/vulkan/rendering_device_driver_vulkan.cpp:2439)
ERROR: VK_EXT_device_fault not available.
   at: on_device_lost (drivers/vulkan/rendering_device_driver_vulkan.cpp:5531)
ERROR: Vulkan device was lost.
   at: command_queue_execute_and_present (drivers/vulkan/rendering_device_driver_vulkan.cpp:2653)

So looks like a Vulcan thing, but troubleshooting any graphical hardware/driver issues is something I want to do absolutely zero of.

[crimson merlin]

"Vulkan device was lost" means the GPU driver died. But yeah, I totally get you. I just want to make a game, not mess around with drivers

[lilac anchor]

What NPCs do you think will be the hardest to implement?

I can’t imagine some of them are easy

[torpid crane]

i imagine there'd sort of be two layers to that, "hard to implement mechanics" and "hard to implement AI"

with the latter coming up for primarily controllers/supports

[lilac anchor]

Yeah controller supports are probs gonna be wonky to do

[lilac anchor]

Oh god I know we might not get them but implementing striders can’t be easy

[flint portal]

https://tenor.com/view/lancer-breakdance-lancer-lancer-deltarune-deltarune-delta-rune-gif-12991294656648990087

[alpine sorrel]

I need to play deltarune 😭

[lilac anchor]

you should!!!!!

first 2 chapters are freeeeee

[burnt frigate]

deltarune chapter 2 is still one of the funniest video games ever made imo

[small panther]

I'm personally biased towards Chapter 3, but 2 has the best cast of characters maybe ever, for sure.
Almost makes me sad I didn't find a way to turn ||the punch-out fight|| into a Lancer combat like I did for the other chapters. Oh well.

Need to finish those actually.

[midnight lotus]

Thinking about an NHP modeled off of Queen...

imagine...

[lilac anchor]

Iconoclast NHP

[elfin peak]

A nice simple filter for the character creator might just be to make everything blue-green and add some scanlines

[small panther]

Kinda like what they did for Rio in OSR in the end, that worked pretty well for her portrait.

[alpine sorrel]

I think we're waiting on adding explicit NHP support for the portrait maker until we have a better idea of what we want to do overall with NHPs

[small panther]

Fair enough

[lilac anchor]

Alrighty

[alpine sorrel]

OK, I just uploaded a new build (0.3.0) to itch. Could folks do me a quick favor and check out if it runs on your machines? I'm still pretty unsure if the new Compatibility rendering mode is a good direction to go.

Here's the bit I'm gonna post about asking for performance feedback:

So I'm looking for feedback: on your machine, how is the performance feeling?
- Are you getting a good framerate (visible in the lower-left corner)?
- Does the shader compilation step mostly go away after the first time you wait through it?
- Are you seeing a noticable amount of shader stutter as you use abilities & attacks?
(if you send me feedback on these, please include your OS)

You can upshift back to Forward+ via the graphics options, if you need a point of comparison or want to see if any stutter issues go away there.```

[cold timber]

That is slick as hell, and the barb going offscreen still kills me

[ashen kindle]

New tokens really kick ass (old ones do too)

Also love big Barb

[alpine sorrel]

Yeah blobertson's work is super solid. Gen's still working on the new batch, but I'm happy to use blob's as placeholders until then.

[alpine sorrel]

Changelog is up: https://wick.itch.io/lancer-tactics/devlog/978580/compatibility-rendering-mode-eight-new-mechs

[lilac anchor]

OH BABY ITS HERE

[stable smelt]

positionally it looks a little weird, like it's not centered properly?

but I don't think being centered right would prevent it from doing that.

[alpine sorrel]

oh I see what you mean

[cold timber]

I see what you mean. It's too high up in it's gridsquares

[alpine sorrel]

ha jinx

[cold timber]

lmao

beat me by a hair, I just had to include a screenshot

[lilac anchor]

minor issue im seeing, the gas leak rocks are black?

And I see mentions of the module editor, but its unavailable?

[alpine sorrel]

They sure are. Side effect of downgrading to compatibility mode. Their UV mapping is just off, I have a ticket for the artist to update them for the next build.

[lilac anchor]

I see, I see

[alpine sorrel]

Ya it's still under wraps as we're making changes for it. I almost didn't include that section because it's not really relevant player-side yet.

[lilac anchor]

Gotcha!

I also see some... minor issues I might have to iron out with my maps zone wise i didnt realize until trying to new sitreps, so sorry!

Pow, its absolutely fine if you cant add em now, I figured id just submit versions with fixed zones

[stable smelt]

also I think this is true of the drake but it's less extreme.

[alpine sorrel]

Agreed. Just added a fix.

[lilac anchor]

Also, I dont mean to bother you about it too much, but any chance of getting my 2 fort in? I also fixed the zones on that one (I dont think im good at zones now lol)

[alpine sorrel]

oh sure

[lilac anchor]

groovy let me grab that

Huzzah

apologies for my lack of professional skill with zoning

[tulip peak]

10% more Barb for your buck

[lilac anchor]

We fire 60% more barb per barb!

[small panther]

That's kinda what those Ace 2 + RBJJ Barbarossa builds do, actually.
"Charging the rail is taking too long, just throw the whole Barb at them !"

[lilac anchor]

Send in the barb

[teal flame]

okay so maybe the sekhmet should land

it does a weird jig otherwise and takes all your movement (including boost)

[smoky glacier]

i.e. if a flying unit activates Sekhmet protocol, it fails to path towards targets?

[teal flame]

well no

a flying unit is immune to melee

but also can’t melee back

[rain cipher]

UI animation

[alpine sorrel]

oh that's funny. noted :p

[heady iris]

is reactor stabilizer missing?
also yea siege stabilizer appears in its place xD

doesn't appear between the options either

Oasis wall slot does the same and i noticed that closing and reopening the game makes those slots act weird

[tepid cipher]

hey sorry to bother but i bought the game via kickstarter, how might i access the itch.io updarted version?

[heady iris]

a weird integrated mount appears on monarch mech page specifically
even with no talents or cores equipped

[teal sundial]

i got a situation yesterday where it displayed two empty integrated mounts for the monarch

[heady iris]

[crimson merlin]

https://lancer-tactics.backerkit.com/backer/review > Get your digital downloads

[teal sundial]

not that its a competition

[heady iris]

Tlaloc is just flexing his multitasking on us

oh
i added a few weapons and systems and it happened to me as well xD

[heady iris]

ah the round limit is still capped at 8 for gauntlet how can i increase it?

placed a drone down with hydra
but even with drone master on it only spawned with 10 hp instead of 15

my god
black beard is a monster xD
turn one, boosted into the enemy team, overcharge to activate corepower
and that's all that remains of the enemies at start of round 2 after a sekmet turn
he was still going for more and ran down the demolisher too xD

i got shock wreath on the shock knife but i don't see a prompt to activate it
could it be that the hunter options are hiding shockwreath ?

trying the superheavy plasma thrower
i selected the spots on the field that need to catch fire but i don't see any fire marker
i also tried moving over some spots with my drones but none took damage

also shooting the plasma thrower should heat self 4, that didn't happen for me

[lilac anchor]

Me seeing my maps :)
the plasma thrower is absolutely insane tho, hope it gets a fix soon!

[carmine bane]

a lot of the new mechs added are mechs ive always wanted to play against as GM, but my players never pick them

very excited to give the new update a shot, even more excited to have a three day weekend to sink some hours into it

[lilac anchor]

Agreed!

Some mechs I wanna try out are DLC, so I’m doing what I can lol

It’s fun making my friends pilots and placing them in situations

[carmine bane]

ive always wanted to fight a monarch. fighting as one is just as good im sure

[lilac anchor]

The conveniently placed ultra rainmaker

[heady iris]

did i just "cure" my metalmark's core power invisibility with a stabilize? XD

[lilac anchor]

Pfffff, smooth

[lilac anchor]

silly idea

Have multiple Payload skins

A normal thingy, Perfect Form Minotaur, the payload from tf2

[alpine sorrel]

Oooo so many bugs yum yum yum

[flint portal]

"where did all of the bugs go?"
Suspiciously bug shaped Olive:

[lilac anchor]

Olive with a bug shaped bulge in her neck
"What bugs?"

Also god the metalmark is fun, i can finally bust out my moron cassandra

[flint portal]

"we outta bugs"

[kind fern]

Hopefully I can do my wacky skirmisher schmovement genghis now

[lilac anchor]

i also kinda like the other art style chassis, a slider to turn them on or off could be neat

[alpine sorrel]

that'd be mod territory, god RA willing

[alpine sorrel]

changing round count added to the to-do list -- I thought I'd already done it

[heady iris]

i give them a nibble

[alpine sorrel]

I think it should show up if you have a quick action after the attack -- just like metafold maze on the mino

[heady iris]

panopticon still doesn't activate at the end of my turn on hydra btw

is there perhaps a button i have to press to activate it?

[alpine sorrel]

noooo I swear I fixed that

I'll take another look

[teal sundial]

btw the UI for sharinga is really convenient :]

[alpine sorrel]

I mean, invis is a condition, right? so I think this is possible RAW. Maybe I should omit it tho

[heady iris]

i was wandering the same xD

we might ask a rule expert

[heady iris]

nnnnope, i tried another test to see if me moving drones counted towards panopticon not activating but even when i was still it didn't activate

[flint portal]

So actually its a status

alongside prone and hidden

(and danger zone)

Stabilize only clears conditions

[alpine sorrel]

oh cool dunno how I got that wrong.

[smoky glacier]

Stabilize also explicitly only clears "a condition that wasn't caused by one of your own systems, talents, etc."
but in LT that'd involve tracking condition-sources

[alpine sorrel]

We are actually doing that, though it's not 100% reliable

I must have missed adding a check in stabilize for that

[flint portal]

Technically also the MM core power makes you invisible with no end condition, so even if a scout used lets say rebound scan on them, it would still come back once the effect of rebound scan are done

[alpine sorrel]

mm I see I see. so kinda like the vlad stake immobilization.

(except that can end when the stake is gone, of course)

looking at my "what counts as a condition" list, looks like I was also missing lock-on

[heady iris]

it lets you clear lock on with stabilize in the game tho

always about panopticon
i noticed just now that after manually locking on the demolisher i don't get to know its stats

oh-
he passed a system check but still got the heat from open door xD

[alpine sorrel]

truly thank you so so much for these reports

[heady iris]

you know me i'm having the time of my life
i'm making so many pilot builds my friends are scared xD

[lilac anchor]

I like map building!

[heady iris]

here i used lunge with my shock knives to reach the demolisher and he got blipped away
but it let me use lunge again to reach him on my next attack despite the 1/round limit

[tepid temple]

You turn the slider and all the music is now 8-bit remixes

[heady iris]

i climbed on top of a tower with my hydra and now i can't place drones adiacent to me xD

shouldn't i be able to recall my drone with a quick action and then redeploy it within sesnsors tho?

[lilac anchor]

They are scared of heights

[heady iris]

nooooo!! the pinaka missiles don't fire at the end of the next round
i wanted to see fireworks xD

also using the pinaka should inflict heat self 2

hmm
i filled out this entry grid completely
what would've happened if i came with 4 barbarossa tho?

[lilac anchor]

Oh god the barb

He’s here to say hi

[alpine sorrel]

Hm I thiiink this is working as intended; adjacency cares about elevation, and there are no free adjacent tiles you can reach (ie you shouldn't be able to yeet one up a cliff, either). The assassin drone specifically goes adjacent instead of within sensors; you'd be able to drop/redeploy turret drones off the tower just fine.

[lilac anchor]

One thing I like to do is make maps that are like, in the same place

[alpine sorrel]

#1079952007915376711 message

[teal sundial]

oo do elaborate

[lilac anchor]

Making like, the center of a city, and then making the city outskirts

[alpine sorrel]

one of the campaign maps we have planned is fighting through a canyon to a base entrance at the top, then the next combat starts with that same base entrance on the bottom of the map

[tepid temple]

Campaign peek 👀

[lilac anchor]

CAMPAIGN PEEEEK

[lilac anchor]

yep! Just playtesting em now!

Enjoy!

[toxic badge]

hunter-killer nexus is missing smart tag (v0.3.0)

[lilac anchor]

cant wait for ronins to get added to create my wave of 7000 grunt ronin

[smoky glacier]

improbably dense ball REAL

[toxic badge]

v0.3.0 payload shenanigans
2 characters, each with 4 speed.
Character A picks up the payload, moves 3 spaces, sets down payload.
"1 move left" message appears.
Character A ends turn. Later, Character B starts turn. (this is where the autosave is)
Character B moves adjacent to payload and picks it up.
Character B can only move 1 space (should be 4).
After Character B sets down the payload, message is "3 moves left"
If Character B moves adjacent to the payload again, they can pick it up again.
This time, they can move it 2 spaces (should be 3)
Message is now "1 move left"
Character B can now move adjacent to payload, pick it up again, and move it 1 space.

Also, sometimes loading that autosave crashed the game, but nothing in the logs to indicate what happened and it happens very infrequently, no idea how to reliably trigger it

I suppose this is working as intended, but it feels weird that you can move the payload so much farther by leapfrogging it - pick it up from one side of you, move one space, put it down in front of you, move in front of it, pick it up while it's behind you, move one space, put it down in front of you, move in front of it, etc.

Would be nice to be able to hover over the payload and see how many more spaces of movement it's allowed this turn 🤔

[toxic badge]

hitting escape after picking up the payload does enable me to move the full 4 spaces, but it also prevents me from putting it down again 😆

looks like it has to do with boosts, like the game won't let you boost while you're in "transport payload" mode 🤔
I assumed it was something weird with previous characters not moving it as far as possible, but looks like that's not it.

it really is goofy to be able to move the payload 12 spaces with a speed 4 character via leapfrog 🤔

[alpine sorrel]

Ooo fantastic exploit catch. I guess the solution is to have the space moved when picking it up/setting it down count against its moves for the turn?

Which means I need to limit the move distance you can make while holding it (moves left - 1) to budget for that last put-down move

[alpine sorrel]

One of the first things I do when we get ronins will be making a gif of the prophecy coming to pass

[lilac anchor]

YAY!!

[zinc plank]

Finally got my coin (delays in picking it up), and it's excellent, I love it

[teal sundial]

I'm not sure the warning lights fix worked

[alpine sorrel]

figured this one out: I forgot to give the second one a "free" discount, so it only triggers if you didn't use all your actions that turn, which my automated test didn't. oops

[heady iris]

what about the extra info i wasn't getting for locking on?

[alpine sorrel]

that was also broken in a way I've already forgotten but is now fixed

[heady iris]

[alpine sorrel]

I moved from a secret reaction-based method to adding the ability for specifically the lock-on action to accept "rider" effects because I feel like there are other ones out there for it

[heady iris]

can't wait to see duskwing and sherman system fixed i want to play with them too

[alpine sorrel]

👍 OASIS wall was tricky & I fully expect you to find something broken with it :p I opted to have it always be on the ground because the engine doesn't like dealing with units underneath other units.

[heady iris]

hmm hunter lock isn't activating

[teal flame]

...does the mimic gun cycle fire anims?

[teal flame]

wait that's the omnigun

it doesn't get that

[alpine sorrel]

I was about to say

[heady iris]

pfft

[teal flame]

also speaking of the peggy

[heady iris]

i didn't even notice xD

[teal flame]

THIS is how you pegasus

yes that was using a prob. cannibalism to set the dice to a 20

...i should've taken brutal, DAMMIT

[heady iris]

you always take brutal on pegasus uwu

unless you're like me and like having all talents for all weapon type as you fire the gun that is all guns

[teal flame]

wait no

nevermind there's no need to

there is no "maximum damage" on the pegasus, not really

[heady iris]

a thing i was wandering while reading passives

[teal flame]

in base lancer this lets you choose but meh

[alpine sorrel]

Ya I made it not optional

[teal flame]

better this way

[alpine sorrel]

Big nightmare, little gain

[heady iris]

honestly good

there's only one reason if you ever pick pegasus as your mech

and it's that the dices hate you

and you know it very well

[teal flame]

oh also, make sure to check the combat log for the peggy

or anything with mimic gun

wait

does clearing prone not make the unit get up?

do they have to move?

[alpine sorrel]

it should get them up

[teal flame]

context is making a unit prone when under covering fire

oh, no it's still prone

also iirc probabilistic cannibalism should consume the result?

[heady iris]

that's exactly what i like to see after an apocalypse hit

[heady iris]

no, you get x and y for 2 times over the round
so you can use x, x or y, y too

[teal flame]

oh that's cool then

okay

"wait, pinakas aren't ordnance?"

[heady iris]

true

[teal flame]

they should probably be doing 2 self heat

[teal flame]

i'm just used to seeing stab mod on it, i guess

[heady iris]

you usually make them with the mod attached to them tho

[alpine sorrel]

hm, there was some missing text for plasma thrower + no self-heat that I just fixed, but I'm not able to repro the missing fire markers & effects

[heady iris]

lemme throw you an autosave copy real quick then

could be a weird talent interaction i'm missing

[alpine sorrel]

that looks like a shortcut, not the actual json

[heady iris]

a

[alpine sorrel]

I think I noticed that happening with a few of your other autosaves too

[heady iris]

mb

[heady iris]

hek

i'll pay attention

actually let me know if you want me to recreate any of them that i missed

[teal flame]

delayed pinakas might not be working?

also NPCs might be double fragsys-ing?

[alpine sorrel]

I think that's technically legal, yes? Since full tech lets you double up.

[teal flame]

iirc not of the same kinda against the same target

[alpine sorrel]

very very weird 🤔

could you send me the most recent lancer_tactics.log in the logs folder (next to the save folder) after having seen it fail?

if it's aborting deploying the flames, it'll give me a hint why there

[teal flame]

also i can confirm shock wreath isn't working

i had also forgotten you could put it on heavy melees

oh wait no, there it is

...huh, demolisher locked on to me despite being blinded with Mastermind

[heady iris]

this should be it

[alpine sorrel]

God, so bizarre. The logs look completely normal.

Concerning.

[heady iris]

the camera does center on the spots i set down but no token or moving over them works

[alpine sorrel]

looks like the problem with pinakas are that if you re-use it, the timer for the first set also resets so you can keep adding more spots until you wait a full turn

(and you can't hit yourself)

[alpine sorrel]

do you think that's what you were seeing here?

[heady iris]

is that how it works? :D

[alpine sorrel]

it should not be

I just didn't dream large enough and only tested one round of 'em

[heady iris]

noooo!!! my pinakas don't fire either
i wanted to blanket a map with explosions but i was code spaghetti code blocked xD

at the end of the round the pinaka markers disappear but they don't fire

[alpine sorrel]

what is happeningg, I hate non-reproducible bugs. games are haunted

I'll try on my windows box?? Though the automated tests should have caught anything funny when I ran them there...

[teal flame]

ah yeah, i did shoot a non-delayed one

[alpine sorrel]

hm well that should have been fine...

[heady iris]

[stable smelt]

strictly speaking, the spotter 2 info(and the spotter 3 trigger) happen regardless of if you're doing the lock-on action, which is important even in core because there's Markerlight.

that might be awkward to implement, but you also need 'applying lock-on' to have a rider for the swallowtail anyway, so.

[stable smelt]

in core the NPC full tech is different from the player version - NPCs can't double up on the same option.

[stable smelt]

(and, uh, the hydra hunter drone. though that one is really wonky to trigger spotter 3 with, you can)

[teal flame]

okay so i just ran into the fire thing too

[alpine sorrel]

Sick sick sick, ty for the footage of it

[alpine sorrel]

Looks like it's one the worst class of bugs: it only shows up in exported builds. At least I'm able to repro it now. 😌

[toxic badge]

Just had an elite assault spend two back to back turns boosting back and forth in the corner of the map instead of chasing down a payload and 4 PCs. Do they prioritize "the nearest zone of any kind" when they can't reach a player on their current turn?

[heady iris]

oh god he did it again in one turn xD
the elite failed a direct hit

i think i'll start turning up the difficulty for him even if he's just at level 8

[heady iris]

alright, i'm getting to try prob cannibalism
it's working wonderful so far

but now i'm having existential doubts on how it worked xD

basically
during round 1 i used it 2 times
when round 2 started i went first with pegasus and used prob can again.
i was sure i used it all up and was just about to refire it when the prompt to change the roll appeared for the 3rd time since i first used the ability.

funny thing is that i rolled a 20 in the first round so, this prompt would turn one of my prob cann values into another 20 xD

is this how it works? @stable smelt i'll ask you
i checked the rules and it seems right
apparently, rules as written, you can use prob can 4 times over 2 rounds before it's the end of your next turn. so you can use prob can to keep a value for your next prob can
at least that's how i read it correct me if i'm wrong

oh god double 20

[heady iris]

something sketchy happened with sekmet
when it was its turn again i could move around with my mech but then i couldn't press the protocol again and the end turn button is greyed out
effectively halting combat

also within the same autosave file a bit back in the turn order
something happened with my deathhead.
i suddenly wasn't able to shoot enemies that were within 5 squares, although i wasn't marking for death
could be some effects i'm missing on but i thought it was worth report in the case this was a bug

[heady iris]

little update
i was told about this ruling on the "x/round" tag
so you need to wait your mech's turn for x/rounds effects to refresh
this still means you can use prob call 3 times with pegasus

[toxic badge]

v0.3.0: Executioner 1 backswing cut and Executioner 2 wide arc cleave sometimes don't proc when they should.
I thought it was related to hunter 3 disdainful blade, but I've been trying to narrow it down and can't. Not sure if there's some ultra specific combination of hits/misses/targets and executioner 3 no escape you have to go through with an aux/aux mount in order to cause the other talents to fail to proc. It might also have something to do with picking up thrown weapons, but I also haven't been able to nail that down. It's inconsistent in the exact same situation if I reload the save, which makes me think it might be related to the rng and you need a specific ordering of events to cause the problem.

[alpine sorrel]

Once again, so many bugs, yum yum yum

I might do a second bugfix release soon after getting through all these

[tepid cipher]

so an odd bug i'd like to report

I placed the hydra's lock-on drone next ot an assault.

and it didn't just proc once?
it proced every time he moved a space? that doesn't feel right

[stable smelt]

technically, yes, but only the gorgon can use it four actual times. everyone else is limited to three because it's 2/round.

[alpine sorrel]

Figured out the plasma thrower flame thing after a full day 😫 always love it when a bug involves opening an issue report on the godot github.

[teal flame]

yikes

[tepid temple]

Komu's bugtesting is moving up in the world

[mild jay]

That sounds very funky

[teal flame]

oh my god

this is brilliant actually

grapple pulled me on top of an enemy

oh no

although ramming them and breaking the grapple through knockback has left me up here

okay i REALLY like how sekhmet is implemented here

it's cool that you can kinda stabilise after killing someone with just the free skirmish

[alpine sorrel]

oh wow. I guess grappling as a flying bb should land you at the end of it? and if you grappled a flying opponent, them too?

[teal flame]

maybe just implement a check at the end of every turn/round to see if mechs fall too

also, redundant systems on the sherman should be unique

[teal flame]

I assume the plasma cloud on the tachyon lance is still WIP?

[alpine sorrel]

I think it should be working, with placeholder graphics.

if it's not that's another ✍️

[teal flame]

could also just be not visualising like what happened to the plasma thrower

[heady iris]

hekkk nice that you got it what was giving problems?

[alpine sorrel]

Technical nonsense; it had to do with how I was setting the default statblock for things. For props like flames/mines/smoke, I have an invisible no-stats resource that I give them. I missed setting it on the flames (and drake CP actually), so it fell back to a default statblock correctly when it ran from the editor but NOT in the exported build (what I filed the bug report about). Having a null statblock gave them a size of zero which meant they didn't take up any tiles so they couldn't trigger.

I had to add an entire in-game console so I could run dev commands in the exported build to track down what was happening... had to work backwards from the flame damage not triggering when stepped on -> they're "too far away" -> why does it think they're far away -> they have no occupied tiles -> they have no size -> they have a null statblock

So yeah in the next build if you hit ` it'll open a barebones console that you can really jankily inspect game state with.

Should probably take the opportunity to add dev commands like spawning units or or doing full repairs.

[teal flame]

oh that’s fun

also i should ask

is there any sort of gamemode for just like

“kill every enemy unit on the map”?

like for simple build testing

[heady iris]

i appreciate your work, you really went to the bottom of this one

[lilac anchor]

o7 salute you, youve done a whole helluva lotta work on this, and it shows

[hazy ferry]

Oh yea recommendation I've seen from other devs: Don't use FMOD

It causes a lot of crashes and sound issues

"Other devs" being the developer for Tiny Combat Arena

[heady iris]

noticed a little naming error in duskwing abilities but it's fine
goblin and duskwing have the same trait after all

[alpine sorrel]

Not yet, besides setting it up yourself in the map editor... I've thought about it and probably will eventually but am somewhat philosophically opposed bc my favorite design choice in Lancer is the sitrep & fights not being dnd deathmatches by default. I'm not motivated to lean into LT being a lancer whiteroom tester, although I concede it kinda just is.

[alpine sorrel]

Oh interesting, I'd love to read more about their struggles with it! I had to be sold on using it by our musician because it was a pain to set up & our first integration went somewhat haunted, but changing extensions has made it smooth sailing since.

[hazy ferry]

He is pretty nonspecific but you might be able to reach out to him on Bluesky

[tepid temple]

Tangential line of inquiry, but how do you feel about module authors adapting their pre-existing campaigns into LT campaigns, Olive? Do you think that's gonna be viable, or is the game better suited for something built from the ground up for it?

[alpine sorrel]

I think it depends on the campaign. Something linear/slightly branching like dustgrave would probably handle adaptation well, but a hexcrawl like death on the glacier obviously wouldn't.

Basically like if you could see the module being a visual novel

And the game state lives in clocks more than exploring

Something like IGF might do ok actually

Pierce the heavens probably wouldn't because so much of it is point crawl and narrative mechanics

Though I dream of a day where we could support at least a point crawl map

You could probably rig one up with the current system but it wouldn't be necessarily pretty

[tepid temple]

I ask because "Hey how much of Lancer's built-up catalogue can brought with us into the videogame" is probably the best case for the death match beyond appeals to general principle

That said, I do think that death matches, while not the meat and potatoes maybe, are still part of a balanced Lancer diet

Beyond that uhhh, if Kai's Rebake is being used I think that would make sitreps less damage-racey/homogenous, letting death matches breathe as their own thing rather than the thing that encroaches on every other form of play

[teal flame]

also, fold knives are accurate iirc

[heady iris]

also, redundant system upgrade is unique

[heady iris]

first round and my pegasus started with just 3/5 charges for redundant systems

already used my omni harpoon but i can still press the button and select the targets
not sure if it doesn't fire because i'm blinded or because it registers that the core power was already used tho

here's the autosave for both

[heady iris]

equipped stun crown on the goblin and tried to use it but it also hit my allied duskwing

[alpine sorrel]

hm, I'm not able to repro this one... loading the save file has this deactivated like normal. lmk if you see it again, & the log might help narrow it down too. (maybe I should start including a log dump in the autosaves...)

[heady iris]

ah i'll make sure to send that as well next time

[heady iris]

i was trying to test blackbeard omni harpoon while flying there and i must say your code held pretty great and everything went as intended xD

[heady iris]

found a bug with duskwing
apparently, initiating flight and landing is considered unique movement by the game, yet you can't leave an afterimage on top of the other
so you can move one space and keep landing and taking flight and you'll have as many after images as much as your speed + boost

therefore @alpine sorrel i give you this save file

[teal flame]

uh

wait a sec

is the log saying the PEGASUS is taking damage from firing the omnigun?

[heady iris]

no?

[heady iris]

it says that pegasus fired the omnigun against the assault
and in the log pegasus never took damage

[teal flame]

weird okay

[heady iris]

surprisingly, it didn't crush when i detonated all afterimages

[teal flame]

also a fun interaction that i don't blame not being modeled

[heady iris]

fan fact
one of the copies of duskwing i made got accidantally copied on the ground instead of flying
wonder if you feel like playing where's waldo

[teal flame]

omnigun doesn't count as an attack

or rather, in core it doesn't

this means it shouldn't break hidden

[heady iris]

hm you can lose hidden also by performing a hostile action (any kind of ability that targets a hostile character)
that would technically count imo

[lilac anchor]

thinking about skirmisher 2 since thats something that hasnt been done due to how it could be implimented, since each attack thats not a superheavy is a quick action couldnt it just proc every time you use the weapons on a mount?

[toxic badge]

More of a whine than a bug report: it makes me sad that Hunter 1 lunge only gets you close enough to attack and no closer (i.e. if you are exactly 5 spaces away from an enemy, just when the talent is normally most useful in tabletop play, it does nothing in LT) (also when you are 6 spaces away and throwing, it only moves you 1 space instead of 3). I'm used to playing with it as a gap closer so I can attack with non-aux melee weapons, and without skirmisher 2 all I've got for melee mobility improvements are hunter and ace 😔

[icy creek]

is that intentional? seems like it could be a bug report

[stable smelt]

I'd consider that a bug report; you should be able to do the full lunge even if it's not necessary to make the attack

[alpine sorrel]

HA amazing 🤣 I love this so much

[alpine sorrel]

But for parity with tabletop, it should only trigger once per turn (assuming no OC/other ability) and if it triggers you shouldn't be able to use your second action on a second weapon 'cause that'd have been a barrage

[alpine sorrel]

This is a good point... how do you think it should act? Move as close as possible by default?

[stable smelt]

ime, generally if you're triggering lunge you want to move as much as possible. this isn't always true, but a lot of the time it is.

[stable smelt]

it gets more complicated with ASURA, also, since that can 'skirmish' and 'barrage' both.

(and gorgon's 'two ""skirmish"" reactions on one turn' thing...)

[toxic badge]

I think so, especially since there's the "don't use lunge at all" option already available as a toggle 👍 I'd much prefer "move 3 spaces or 0 spaces" as options compared to the way it currently works 🤔

[stable smelt]

possibly 'move 3 spaces', 'move as much as needed to make the attack', and 'don't lunge', if that's possible.

[toxic badge]

Another option would be to build in a "choose where you end up as part of this lunge" step kind of like choosing where an enemy ends up during knockback, but I don't know how much of an improvement that would be (or how much effort it would take) 🤔

[glad lotus]

^ yeah, I wondered about that option too.

[alpine sorrel]

Doing that would take a pretty dramatically different approach than the current one, which just swaps out the pathfinder movement assist that's normally taken up by your standard move with the lunge flight. Adding multiple steps before an arbitrary aux melee weapon is beyond the scope of what the alternate weapon panel can handle.

The downside of the current system is that you can't stack alternative movement types, so if there was another ability like lunge it'd be either/or... so maybe it is worth looking at bulking it out

For the sake of being able to skirmisher 2 + lunge

[toxic badge]

the first time Whenever I start a combat in compatibility mode, the game hangs while compiling shaders until I force quit.
After that, it works fine with no time spent compiling shaders It quits happening if I switch to forward+. This has happened on both of my machines (both windows) with v0.3.0

[alpine sorrel]

Amazing, that's the sort of system testing I was hoping to get, ty.

I'm so torn about what to set as the default

Forward+ crashes on some computers from the jump. Compatibility mode runs but has hella shader compile times on some computers.

Maybe I include a separate launcher for compat mode that people can try to run from the folder if the main one doesn't work?

Maintaining both versions will be a pain but I don't see a good way around it

[toxic badge]

There was something in the log about compatibility mode not supporting particle shader sub-emitters? not sure if it's worth playing whack-a-bug with specific renderer issues as long as everyone has access to both and can use one of them without problems 😮‍💨

QoL ask: don't show adjacent units as targetable with ordnance weapons

[stable smelt]

(corebook ordnance is weird and it would not at all hurt to simplify it to 'can't be used to attack adjacent units' instead of 'against targets in engagement' - there are otherwise some real stupid edge cases, like 'if a hidden unit is next to you you can attack it with an ordnance weapon because it's not Engaged with you')

[tepid temple]

But that means I can't friendly fire my teammates with the railgun :*(

[glad lotus]

My skirmisher + lunge Nelson warpike knife builds yearn for this capability. 😛

[ancient perch]

Well i didn't know this existed. This game looks so cool!

[elfin peak]

Still very WIP but the dev is awesome and keeps working on the game to make it better and better.

[ancient perch]

That's what's important

[elfin peak]

Slight bug, Tempest drones sometimes seem to hit themselves away from the enemy when moving? like I move it next to an enemy, and the drone itself fails a hull save and gets yeeted away.

[alpine sorrel]

Haha that's funny. Logged.

[alpine sorrel]

hm I'm not able to repro. I just shepherd protocol'd a tempest into a priest's face and nothing happened. How are you moving the drone?

Looks like I added something only about 20 days ago that should prevent that, but that should be in the latest build. are you on 0.3.0?

[elfin peak]

I think so? grabbed it earlier today. I do have multiple tempest drones and they were definitely dinging eachother when moved with the drone commander talent (Not sure if that part was intentional) but also sometimes when not passing adjacent to eachother? possibly crossing over a corner that's adjacent to another tempest drones threat area.

[alpine sorrel]

ty, that might do it... I haven't thought about how multiple tempest drones should interact. by my reading they should indeed pingpong off each other?

[elfin peak]

So the behaviour I'm not sure about.

• Drones pinging off eachother when passing through a radius without actually stopping in it (presumably intentional but worth mentioning)
• Drones pinging off eachother when not passing through eachothers radius but just coming close (possibly clipping a corner)

[stable smelt]

this example shouldn't have them hit each other, but otherwise, yes, they can hit each other if you move them too close.

[elfin peak]

If I had to guess diagonal movement is internally handled as multiple non-diagonal movements? So the drone could be actually passing into the top left part of the radius (in that picture) without visual feedback to warn me of this.

[alpine sorrel]

no, diagonal movement is diagonal. I'll see if I can repro with this setup

something else might be going on

[elfin peak]

If not I'll try clip it

[alpine sorrel]

also, turns out the log sure was reporting the wrong damage target for the omnigun

[teal flame]

ah-HA

glad that's been caught

it's incredibly funny

[alpine sorrel]

this ended up being because of siege stabilizers, so no bug there

[heady iris]

thank you i completely missed that
jood job

[alpine sorrel]

Yes, could you get me a recording/screenshot/autosave of it happening? my tests have a tempest drone moving from the highlighted tile diagonally and nothing happened

[ancient perch]

This is extremely funny.

And... Actually, wouldn't that be an interesting ability for a mech? Some kind of anti-mech stuff. Perhaps a bit too powerful though 🤔

I dunno gamedev

[elfin peak]

Ok, I found the issue, its not a bug but it is a gameplay issue

[alpine sorrel]

oh?

[elfin peak]

Making a little diagram

So the initial issue was just me being dumb, I was skimming through a corner without realising it due to a poor view angle. However when trying to replicate it I did find the initial issue which kind of led me to make that movement.

Using the drone commander protocol I can only make a single movement, not 2 seperate movements with a sum total of the allowed distance. This combined with the game always prefering to put any corners as close to the end of a movement as possible leads to this issue.

The game will always choose the blue path and I don't have a way to force the green one.

[alpine sorrel]

ah! I see, thanks.

[alpine sorrel]

Just deployed a minor bugfix update (0.3.1) to itch with most of these tasty 🪲 addressed

[teal flame]

really can't wait for the tortuga

it's going to be great

[alpine sorrel]

I have been afraid of doing throughbolt rounds since day 1... but I think with the tools I developed for ghast nexus & napalm grenades, it might actually be OK (both do a attack/pattern from a source besides the unit itself)

[teal flame]

oh god throughbolts

actually wait

it occurs to me, how does the GMS line attack pistol deal with getting range extended?

(on say, the toku)

[small panther]

it doesn't, since it doesn't have a keyword "Range" to extend (the same applies to all patterns that aren't coupled with a range)

[heady iris]

finally i can eat plasma spots

[heady iris]

alll weapon works and now lunge feels great!

got to try the other two systems that weren't displaying as well

damn nvm, integrated weapons don't count to what i just said xD
i just fired my solid core gun at 4 charges but it didn't hit either the underwater assault or priest

[heady iris]

got to test genghis core power and i noticed a bug
i tried to attack the priest with my sherman but it counted as if the priest had invisibility from exposed powercell, though he wasn't in the cloud

[heady iris]

few rounds after that and it also seems that the invisibility on my allies lasted more than usual

even outside the area

just stressed with sherman but the heat got cleared entirely without asking me if i wanted to stay in danger zone is that correct?

[heady iris]

here's the log for this one btw
it happened on round 2 on sherman's second turn
The attack on the assault actually missed but the roll against the priest didn't trigger for some reason

used up my core power this game but it's giving me the option to use it again

grabbing a flying unit in the air with blackbeard doesn't make you close the gap

they both gained grapple and cleared it immediately

by the rules, being grappled should work normally for them. the only thing that changes is that they do it in the air

this is a fun one
you can use fold space on an ally that's grappling an enemy and make them disappear from the battlefield while keeping the enemy grappled xD

i'm happy to report that when i tried grappling the unit and moved it with blackbeard my nelson kept moving with us through the fold space xD

for some reason, in this case scenario skirmisher makes me move forward 2 spaces instead of 4
is to the death messing with my movement again?

[lilac anchor]

Oh shit my 2fort! How does it play?

[heady iris]

great
i knew it was gonna be one of my favorite test maps

although i think falling in the water may be too punishing since there's no way to get back up if you don't have 0-g skills or flight and TPs
once my artillery mechs got drowned in the water because the bridge collapsed i had to keep them there pretty much

because it was difficult terrain they could move only at half speed as well

so their mobility basically turned into barbarossa xD

perhaps consider adding some ramps at the shores so any fallen mech can at least decide to climb back up

and do the walk of shame

btw @alpine sorrel could we get a toggle to increase the round limit of the instant action game mode? possibly so i can play gauntlets for endless rounds or untill all enemies are defeated

[alpine sorrel]

👍 on the list

[heady iris]

you're the best<3

[lilac anchor]

Agreed

It shall be done

How about Quarry and Mines, how are those?

[heady iris]

just noticed something strange about two forts
the sprites of the characters seem more darkened compared to other maps
not sure why
in other maps they all are fine

[lilac anchor]

Huh

The darkness is coming

[heady iris]

susie stop stabbing the fucking ground again!

[heady iris]

btw quarry is the best map
i love it a lot, very spacy and with lots of personality
it could pretty much be a campaign battle map

[heady iris]

it happens only on two forts and the mine

after using shepherd drone protocol, i couldn't move my drone normally with hydras trait

the green button to move the drone disappeared

[lilac anchor]

Yeah idk why that happens on Mine

Do know Mine and Quarry were made to exist in the same story/planet

[alpine sorrel]

Did you play with the lighting settings at all on that? Maybe changing the angle does something weird; it's not a well tested feature.

[lilac anchor]

I did mess with the lighting

When I get home I will lyk what the lighting settings are at!

Man I wish I understood making a game, I’d kill to get like, a campaign or something cool like this published
(I say trying to write a campaign to be published)

Your work is super cool

[lilac anchor]

That’s it I’m making another one

[heady iris]

what broke my hidden on metalmark here? i'm confused xD
maybe the reaction pannel triggered it because of a bug?

[alpine sorrel]

Huh! Not sure. Logged ✍️

[heady iris]

yehh now that i can be invisible all the time i'm getting to test hidden more often

after attacking with sekhmet it gives me the option to move around this berserker
is it intended to do that?

[fickle pecan]

You crit with a fold knife?

Oh no the crit was with the nanocarbon blade

[heady iris]

ye the fold knives were before

[heady iris]

btw i got stunned in my sekhmet after a direct hit and the end turn button is greyed out again

[proud dirge]

hi!! loving L:T. i submitted some bugs on google but id figure id put some more here.

• external batteries dont explode when you lose your first structure
• plasma thrower is missing self-heat
• hydra applies shepherd field to allied mechs too

[lilac anchor]

okay im home, gonna work on the maps

2fort V2

• Added ramps
• Removed herobrine

[alpine sorrel]

Hi! Thanks for the reports, I'll take a look at em!

[alpine sorrel]

For this one, I thiiink this is ok. Sekhmet followed the flowchart as best she could, and movement around the target doesn't get further away from them so I'm reading it as legal? Would welcome other takes.

[tepid temple]

Looks techincally legal to me, the best kind of legal

[flint portal]

yeah that's legal

[stable smelt]

yeah, strictly speaking sekhmet is 'smart' and you can do rotate around the target among other things

some of the 'absurd smart sekhmet plays' might be hard to implement, if you bother with them(and I'm not sure you should)

(stuff like 'strictly speaking it is legal for sekhmet to try and use Beckon to teleport next to the closest target by swapping with a further target')

[heady iris]

can still see the onmi harpoon button right after i used it
but after pressing it and confirming the targets nothing happens and i can do this in repeat

hmm i think i took too much heat from this interaction and to be honest i have no idea how it caused 4 heat on the blackbeard
i'll leave the log and the savefile just in case

[heady iris]

shepherd field from hydra activates on allied pilots as well

when using Annihilation Nexus from your drones it hits them as well

[heady iris]

i'm pretty sure it's a problem with lesson of the open door core upgrade and the stormbending talent

somehow it makes open door apply 2 times

[alpine sorrel]

I suspect this is the same issue as the other two CPs where you use them and then the button is still active but nonfunctional... I haven't been able to repro but'll take another look. Maybe it's another export-build-only issue.

[tepid temple]

This feels appropriate

[flint portal]

Seeing these as screencaps of maps I know i worked is making me feel physically in pain

[tepid temple]

lol

[alpine sorrel]

sorry do I see a wreck at +3 there

[kind fern]

IIRC that combat is in zero g, so a wreck at +3 is very possible

[alpine sorrel]

Perimeter command plate & the concept of collisions for knockback. Had to make it so knockback is now either all-or-nothing; can't do just a little bit of knockback if you have a bunch. Which I think mayyy be the correct ruling anyway? I went through the book but wasn't able to find a definite answer one way or another.

[tidal tulip]

each Knockback instance of knockback is all or nothing, but applying knockback is optional. So say you somehow have Knockback 2, and 3 on the same attack, you could push them back 0, 2, 3, or 5 spaces, but not 1 or 4.

[alpine sorrel]

ha that's wacky

[tepid temple]

That doesn't sound right

At any rate I just asked Tom and he said knockback is "all or nothing"

[worn tiger]

If you have knockback 2 and knockback 3 then you have knockback 5, and you can choose to do 0 or 5 knockback.

[tidal tulip]

aw 😦

[alpine sorrel]

good to hear 'cause that's how it was gonna be in LT either way lol

[flint portal]

Yeah can confirm knockback is all or nothing as well

[heady iris]

i just noticed that zero in from crackshot doesn't trigger when i fire a rifle after steadying

[heady iris]

pure mimic gun art
prone, slowed, impaired, shredded, blinded, all in one attack

[harsh pagoda]

Pegasus got added?

[wraith cradle]

👍

[harsh pagoda]

Cool

[wraith cradle]

😌

[harsh pagoda]

Can't wait to shoot my gun that's isn't a gun

[proud dirge]

when goblin does symbiosis, i dont think it does the sensor sharing properly

i put it on a peggy and peggy didnt have the goblins sensor range

[alpine sorrel]

Symbiosis is my greatest enemy. Thanks, I'll log that as a bug.

[proud dirge]

thank you for your service

[stable smelt]

that's because symbiosis doesn't do that.

it's systems, edef, and tech attack bonus specifically, not sensors.

though frankly it would be better if it included sensors. (or was more extreme and also shared tech and invade options-)

[proud dirge]

oh my god you're so right

im sorry 🙇‍♀️ 🙇‍♀️ 🙇‍♀️

[smoky glacier]

sharing Sensor range
you may be thinking of the Metahook system from the Goblin license

[proud dirge]

oh i think thats it

my bad

[stable smelt]

honestly this gets people so often, because it's a similar-seeming effect (metahook, you get their sensors for tech actions, they get your systems for checks and saves, you share heat and conditions) but they're actually extremely different(the only overlapping effect is 'they get your systems' - not even the heat/condition thing is the same.)

[alpine sorrel]

sick sick sick crossing that one off then, amazing

love it when I get to cross something off with no work expended

Starting on the swallowtail today, which'll be the last SSC mech done

[toxic badge]

Was reminded of this dilemma just now - some steam games have an extra dialog box on steam launch
originally I was like "hrm, a whole separate launcher sounds like a big pain, one more thing to get in the way of players having fun"
but it's way less obtrusive in practice than I imagined - I just learn what to click and then get on with playing 🤔

[rugged copper]

and you can always just click the Do It Every Time And Stop Showing Me This button

[heady iris]

if a goblin metahooks and symbiosis on an ally, does he take 2 times the amount of heat that his ally takes?

[lethal leaf]

Yep, and same for the ally taking the heat the goblin does. So don't do that.

[weak willow]

yo this alpha is so much fun

haven't had fun in a tactics game like this since GBA FE6/7/8

one of the nicest touches is when an Elite shows up and it zooms in on it while whatever wacky name it has types onto the screen

giving me borderlands and smash bros challenger approaching vibes

and the radial menus... oh my god they are sliiiick

one question i had is what player license level is recommended for Instant Action? I ran LL0 and got rekt, I then ran LL6 and curbstomped, and at LL3 I'm barely scraping by and occasionally losing scenarios

[alpine sorrel]

I'm glad you're having fun!

I don't think I have an LL recommendation atm — we're still in the "throw things RAW in-engine and see how things shake out" phase, so haven't done almost any difficulty modulation

There's some settings above the launch button in Instant action that let you tweak things up or down; you could launch at LL6 and fight tier 1 enemies, or make fewer enemies spawn

Good to hear that things are a too difficult starting out currently. I'll keep an eye out for ways to adjust it downwards.

[weak willow]

oh yeah definitely makes sense

For my own understanding, what is Tier 1 and how does the reinforcement multiplyer work?

When I was playing around with Asset Management team, for instance, I saw that turning the reinforcements to x2.0 reduced the amount of reinforcements, and turning it to x1.0 almost doubled the reinforcements.

I also saw Tier 1 at the bottom of the OpFor selection window but it wasn't able to be changed and I wasn't sure what it meant as far as force strength

[storm halo]

Generally from licence level 0-4 you'll fight tier 1 enemies, then 5-8 is tier 2 and 9-12 is tier 3. It adjusts enemy stats and abilities to balance vs the player level.

[weak willow]

roger

there didn't appear to be any Tier 2 enemies to add

[tidal tulip]

every npc class can be "uptiered"

[weak willow]

Ah I get the reinforcement modifier now. I was running it at the default x2.0 modifier which basically gives the full reinforcement reserve for a party of 4, which was equivalent to running enough enemies for a 7-mech party at normal reinforcement levels.

I feel pretty good about winning the scenarios I did with a 2x difficulty mod lol

[alpine sorrel]

Today's dev chain of events:

1. Swallowtail retractable profile
2. Difficulty on search against hiding...? Shoot, ok, I need to now go through the entire content library and update the information saves have access to: the forcing action as well as the forcing character.
3. Oh no, specifically the save against meltdown explosions has no forcing action (but still a forcing character)
4. Guess I'm implementing self-destruct so I can jury rig that in as the forcing action

[weak willow]

i am occasionally running into a bug, around once, maybe twice a mission, where some guns or abilities don't allow me to actually select targets. The dotted line to valid targets appears, the tooltip showing which target I'm hovering over appears, and I'm within range limits. The mech is not jammed or impaired, but I'll try and use, let's say, Assault Rifle or Sharanga missiles, but clicking confirm to select a target doesn't register. Right-clicking doesn't let me back out of the ability like it normally would, either, forcing me to hit Escape to back out, making me think there's some kind of input-eating bug going on. Trying the same attack/action again after backing out does not produce a different result.

When this happens, usually some form of attack does go through, such as a third System or weapon option, which then "refreshes" the other attacks which can be used on a subsequent Quick Action.

I have specifically noticed this bug on a Gandiva/Sharanga Monarch build, and a HMG/Sharanga/AR Everest build.

[heady iris]

whenever you find a bug and want to report it
i suggest you to grab your autosave.json file and your lancer_tactics.log file and send them as well
it'll make it easier to reproduce the bug and understand what went wrong

you can find those files on windows by searching %appdata% in your search bar, then Roaming ,LancerTactics

one file is in the saves folder the other is in logs

[weak willow]

roger

🫡

i don't see an autosave

[alpine sorrel]

Thanks for the report! Logged, I'll take a look at it ✍️ , though as Komu notes, autosaves are much preferred to logs to help me reproduce; they should be in a sibling folder to logs like in this screenshot; if you're not seeing /saves that's another problem lol

Odd that escape works to back out and right-click doesn't... it makes me think the same as you that there's something eating inputs

[alpine sorrel]

ha! fascinating

[weak willow]

I haven't saved in the middle of any engagement maybe that's why

i have saved a few pilots

[alpine sorrel]

that's very strange, saving pilots goes through a similar pipeline as saving games, and an autosave should be made at the start of every round.... maybe the folder is failing to be created, so subsequent saves also fail. I'll log this as another bug 🙂

[weak willow]

it hasn't stopped me from having an absolute blast 👍

I'll try and make a save manually in a few minutes and see if I can get you anything

[alpine sorrel]

oh yep I'm seeing in that log: ERROR: could not save to path 'user://saves/autosave.json' : ERR 7

[weak willow]

nice

[alpine sorrel]

as a stopgap, I bet if you manually create the saves folder, it'd start working

[weak willow]

alright i got the Saves working by manually creating one

here is a save right after the bug happened with the Everest's HMG. This time, though, oddly enough, right after I backed out of it with Escape, I tried again and the HMG worked. I saved right after

[alpine sorrel]

Amazing ty!

[storm halo]

when trying to export a map as a PNG on windows it gave me a file ending in .png. that can't be interacted with at all in file explorer

attempting to move, delete, rename, or anything along those lines end up with windows not finding it

[weak willow]

here's a screenshot of the bug also happening on a custom map- I have gandiva out but i can't click to fire.

I tried to back out and retry and it seems to be consistent on selecting Gandiva in this instance I just saved

[lethal leaf]

Something I just realized could give you headaches: Explosive Caltrops from Vlad extend into the air. You can have spaces in the air that are difficult terrain.

It's a blast 1, not a blast 1 on the ground.

[small panther]

Nothing says spaces in the air can't be difficult terrain (iirc), but I don't think Caltrop Launcher is intended to create those anyways, yeah

[heady iris]

just noticed you can put 2 NHPs on a mech without any ability to increase the NHP limit

[heady iris]

the beauty of a sniper tokugawa

[weak willow]

https://tenor.com/view/he-actually-does-quite-a-bit-of-damage-atomyc-hes-doing-a-lot-of-damage-hes-really-good-in-fighting-gif-22994944

[weak willow]

is that not allowed under normal rules lol? I've totally been doing this on certain mechs

[heady iris]

unless you take a core power from horus that is currently not available in the game
you can only put one NHP on a mach at a time
there are some NHPs that come from talents that ignore the limit but we have none in the game yet

[fickle pecan]

The main actual mechanic of nhps vs other systems is the mutual exclusivity, yeah

[hazy ferry]

Does that result in an infinite loop?

[worn tiger]

Lancer operates under the rule that "if an infinite loop would happen no it doesn't"

any would-be loops just hard stop

[hazy ferry]

Ah

[alpine sorrel]

fun fact, it briefly did in LT:

[worn tiger]

A takes heat from a source, bounces said heat to B, B bounces said heat back to A, and then we stop right there because we can't loop

[alpine sorrel]

Sanity checks for how I'm handling auto misses/hits/crits and rerolls:

Say we have an autopod attacking a markerlighted ace.

• Autopod automatically hits
• Markerlight turns the hit into a crit
• Barrel roll turns the whole thing back into a miss.
• Markerlight is used up and can't be used again

Or a sisyphus'd death's head overwatching against a hornet:

• original attack roll misses
• deaths head neurolink rerolls and it misses again
• sisyphus forces it to be a hit
• weave turns it back into a miss

So auto-miss effects can bait out & use up reactions & ability uses?

My current rough map of order of operations:

• auto-hit weapons | autopod, "this attack automatically hits objects/terrain"
• invisibility >> if miss, abort
• roll attack
• "reroll both, take high" effects | spotter I
• "reroll on miss" effects | neurolink, exemplar, executioner, sisyphyus >> if this changes target, abort
• auto-crit effects | markerlight
• auto-miss effects | barrel roll, weave

Oh, writing that out, I bet executioner rerolls-on-misses due to invisibility or auto-misses doesn't work

[stable smelt]

as far as action resolution goes, by the book this is probably a 'gm adjudicates' situation - but I'd personally err on the side of having enemy reactions happen before ally reactions for this, or possibly having auto-miss effects just happen earlier in the chain

[stable smelt]

also this would be incorrect for sure

[alpine sorrel]

but doctor, my computer is pagliacci

[stable smelt]

(for gameplay reasons mostly. it just sucks to go 'ooh! a target! lemme spend my effects!' and then run face first into Weave which meant all of your effort was wasted, guaranteed, no matter what you had)

[alpine sorrel]

so maybe something like have it go earlier in the chain, but then abort to skip reroll stuff?

[stable smelt]

yeah, something like that probably

[stable smelt]

(for clarity; because executioner 3 and tlaloc's rerolls are against a different target it doesn't matter if the original roll was a forced miss or lost the invis coinflip. you probably know that but I love explaining my reasoning)

[alpine sorrel]

yeah that was me noting that there was probably a bug I hadn't realized, not a rules assertion

[stable smelt]

(also a funny side note that you won't have to deal with; the Orchis's Helion can't miss, which means it bypasses invis and barrel roll etc.)

[alpine sorrel]

oh, that's different than autopod?

[stable smelt]

yeah, autopod 'hits automatically'(which can be turned into a miss)

[alpine sorrel]

exhausting

[alpine sorrel]

ok, here's the new flowchart, I think

[tidal tulip]

barrel roll should have a miss confirmed endstate?

[alpine sorrel]

no, it goes to miss so executioner/tlaloc can trigger off it, I think

[tidal tulip]

ah, i read the arrow backwards, my bad

[alpine sorrel]

oh, it's unclear here, but green arrow means "the effect happened" and red means "n/a"

barrel roll needs to come after hit/crit because it only triggers on such, but weave triggers automatically so it have its own category after (or before?) invis

oh... and "reroll miss against new targets" can't totally abort the attack; it needs to also go to miss confirmed because we want reliable and stuff to trigger

so maybe it doesn't even belong in this flow; could just be a reaction akin to "when you miss an attack roll"

so I think this one is my refactor target; if we do the orchis someday, I can add another link between "miss" and "miss confirmed" that bumps us back to "hit"

ugh wait no that has autopod beat weave, and I think weave should win here.

[heady iris]

the iconoclast talent's unstable nhp and transmuting spark behave the same way. not sure if you'll add them in the game tho.

that said the omnigun from pegasus also doensn't count as an attack and can't miss

[alpine sorrel]

I'm personally opposed to iconoclast on mechanical, play experience, and narrative grounds so I'm never going to implement it in LT lol. and yeah I have omnigun completely ignore all of this and just applies the damage directly to health with no external checks or effects

[stable smelt]

those aren't attacks though! Helion is just special.

[stable smelt]

that would be correct; autopod is a reaction attack so weave should force a miss

[heady iris]

seeing this is honestly very fascinating

[teal flame]

the omnigun doesn't even count as an attack!

[lethal leaf]

That's narratively how the omnigun works as well. It skips the actual shooting part of a gun and just makes the target have been shot.

[alpine sorrel]

sisyphus + unicomp

[teal flame]

ahhhh glorious

my favourite combo

[alpine sorrel]

going through a series of popup menus has never been so much fun

[teal flame]

it's a free heal and free core power

[ashen kindle]

So will sussyphus shout at you every d20 roll made?

[teal flame]

unless you've used your reaction for that turn, yeah

still better than the gorgon or hydra

assassin drones are triggering on friendlies btw

or at least, on orochi drones

[alpine sorrel]

I noticed that, already fixed for the next version

[ashen kindle]

God, there's so many moving parts and interruptions in lancer

How does lancer tactics get more and more impressive

[alpine sorrel]

Yeah. The prompt spam is real. I don't have a good solution — the ideal would probably be like how BG3 does its divination seer thing, but it'd require a lot more machinery for what's a pretty niche ability

[ashen kindle]

Don't divination Wizards just do the same thing?

I think a way you can make it more convenient is swap a roll after its been rolled... if its possible to upgrade a player roll or downgrade a NPC roll it will prompt but like, if you crit in the first place and you have a nat 20, unless you have brutal or something it just won't give the prompt because you already have the best outcome, if a sniper misses it won't ask to swap it with the nat 1 because its already a miss

But then, this can have problems of... thats a pretty significant power boost

[alpine sorrel]

Yeah that passing in that context and figuring out if it makes sense to prompt is the exact machinery I was referring to.

A lot of different places in the game ask to make a d20 roll, and adding anything extra to the process of making that roll for the sake of a niche ability is something I'd rather not get weighed down by.

But it's not impossible, so if playtesting shows that sisy prompt spam is overwhelming, I can sink the time into setting it up

I just haven't done it prematurely

[teal sundial]

bad solution: implement a parry button you have to press within a few frames of dice being rolled in order to brace/sisyphus

Ultralancer

[ashen kindle]

Dead by daylight skill challenge sound

[weak willow]

what if there was a brief pop up menu that sprang up for 3-5s asking if you wanted to use Sisyphus, but disappeared and continued if you let the time run out or if you resolved the attack manually without opting in

so if you ended your turn and went to go pee, the enemy turn would still resolve without getting hung up on every roll

[ashen kindle]

I think that just brings up its own issues, you procced sisyphus and when you wanted to use it happens but you're too slow to react to it

And it can easily lead to accessibility issues too

Unless like, reaction timer was a toggleable setting but thats just extra work for Olive

[alpine sorrel]

Perennially relevant stance on adding gameplay mechanics options:

[alpine sorrel]

Today's bug puzzle: how to handle external batteries + sniper's mark instant structure.

• if I trigger extbats before the structure check, the battery damage is totally negated because health is restored to full & there's no roll-over damage to apply
• if I trigger extbats after the structure check, then extbats become a valid target for system destruction because they aren't destroyed at the time of the check

so it feels like it wants to have them explode pre-structure check but apply the damage post-structure check

[stable smelt]

sniper's mark instant structure shouldn't restore your HP to full, is the issue - case 1 would otherwise be right

(that is, if you're at 13/26 HP and 4/4 structure, taking Instant Structure like from mark makes you go down to 13/26 HP 3/4 structure)

[alpine sorrel]

oh word?

it works differently than standard structure process?

[stable smelt]

it's basically as if the sniper did an entire health bar of damage rather than reducing you to 0 HP.

it still like, has you make a structure damage check and all

[alpine sorrel]

sick, ty

[stable smelt]

(this is also why the Rebake sniper's mark is tweaked to let it do the rifle's normal damage instead of 1 structure if it wants - sometimes mechs have less HP than its normal damage and doing 10 damage to a little goblin with 7 HP would be better than doing 1 structure.)

[alpine sorrel]

Changing manticore Unstable System to explode at the end of the next round instead of next turn bc it doesn't get another turn if it's dead (and we're not tracking destroyed mechs' pilot's turns)

[stable smelt]

reasonable, since you're not tracking that - could also push it earlier, to 'end of this round'.

[alpine sorrel]

manticore testing is going well

[teal flame]

glorious

oh yeah, how does weapon damage work, again?

does it actually use d6s/d3s?

[glad lotus]

Manticore is besticore ❤️

[toxic badge]

A lot of people house rule manticore core to end the heat resistance when the explosion happens - are there LT plans for that?

[alpine sorrel]

nope

[ashen kindle]

Huh, I thought that was how it worked...

[weak willow]

CASTIGATE THE ENEMIES OF THE GODHEAD

on a less serious note, is there anywhere we can or will be able to see/download/upload custom maps?

[alpine sorrel]

not yet, but we know we want to set something like that up

[weak willow]

no rush!

[elfin peak]

So once lancer tactics is done will we be getting lancer dating sim? (jk)

[alpine sorrel]

if you know of any solid alternatives to steam workshop (which won't be available until we're on steam), I'd love to hear em. The current options on the table that I know about:

• a category on the itch forums & try to set up some kind of integration with that (link in-game at minimum)
• a secondary site (e.g. GameFront)
• in-game integration with some sort of backend server that we manually moderate (super mario maker)

[alpine sorrel]

listen, the lancer third party license is right there. anyone could do this whenever

honestly shocked there hasn't been a lancer game jam or something

[elfin peak]

I just desire more lancer content in any form.

Well... any form except a gatcha game

[alpine sorrel]

too late, monkey paw curls

[elfin peak]

Next update locked to Everest and must unlock new frames one LL at a time via lootbox?

[alpine sorrel]

that's too generous. you can't simply get a full LL in a single lootbox -- you have to collect MANY instances of that frame and craft them into a LL

[elfin peak]

Watch a 60 second ad to use core power

[tidal tulip]

collect 57x assault rifle fragments to unlock Reliable attachment

[elfin peak]

Talents are now part of a monthly battle pass system

[tidal tulip]

use 35 shitcoin gems to reload each aux weapon. larger weapons are 65 shitcoin diamonds

[weak willow]

omg

Lancer, Published by Ubisoft

[elfin peak]

Map also split into 4 segments with loading screens between them?

[weak willow]

buy our DLC for the price of the full game to get the ending to the main story!

[stable smelt]

I do believe this is correct and the manticore should lose the heat resist after exploding

[small panther]

indeed, this is true

well, "true"; It's RAW, that's it.

[ashen kindle]

Its weird because it says its heat resistant until end of scene...

But then it says "this stops when you explodde"

So does the this only include the exploding or the whole trait?

[small panther]

the whole thing

I remember it so much 'cause it was my "#rules-questions is not the place to complain" warning back when I joined

[ashen kindle]

Huh

[weak willow]

lol

[alpine sorrel]

oh that changes things then, thx.

I've gotten so annoying to play lancer with over the course of this project from being cursed with so much rules minutae

[ashen kindle]

Can you never play lancer the same again?

[alpine sorrel]

Another thing to double check: EMP Pulse doesn't work against specifically biological targets, but works fine against other targets immune to tech ie those inside an ICEOUT aura?

[ashen kindle]

Its not a tech action so yes, it effects anyone immune to tech actions such as under iceout drone

[teal sundial]

lancer tactics already has mechanical support for making a dating sim. be the change you want to see in the world.

[mild jay]

This sounds like it could be fun. Just a week or month to hammer out lancer-related standalone games? I could definitely get behind that

[orchid pendant]

There's actually one going on right now in this very forum, haha. Which is the second one being run.

[lethal leaf]

It doesn't matter how good your firewall is when someone puts a million volts across it.

[weak willow]

Thoughts on frames after a few days of playing Tactics. All frames experimented with at LL3.
Without further ado:

1. Tokugawa is plain cheeks. No redeeming qualities other than soaking up tech actions and sponging heat.
2. Genghis is almost as bad but has some ranged options that make it better than complete dead weight.
3. Metalmark just dies if it takes any kind of enemy fire, i think it's probably badly missing the full Skirmisher 3 talent. Seems more like a frame you want to dip into rather than a frame you want to main.
4. Goblin is a hacking god and extremely useful, but can't deal with getting attacked and can't deal with heat if it latches onto another mech. Gets completely destroyed pretty much every fight.
5. Dusk Wing is fragile, but the utility is kinda cracked. Super fun to zoom around being a nuisance even if it dies to a light breeze. Breeze has to hit it though.
6. Minotaur is basically "what if Goblin didn't die from one stiff breeze, but wasn't quite as good at hacking, The Mech."

I got others but i dont want to spam

[stable smelt]

I'm not certain this is the place for mech feedback; I believe they're all 1:1 with the book, where possible.

[teal flame]

i will note a couple of things

A: i don’t think you’re playing the toku as aggressively as you should

and B: you’re not actually meant to just be taking one mech

lancer is very much about a team of mechs, not solo

the one mech that can really get away with it is maybe an everest (or everest-likes)

the minotuar is great at locking down a single enemy

[weak willow]

I was running a full team of four at all times

This isn't feedback on how the they were implemented because that's not up to Olive necessarily but just more the design of the Mechs over all and how effective they feel in combat

I promise you I was running the Tokugawa in a straight line towards enemies and it either failed to reach them before the miechs with guns shot them up or it got jammed up by tech enemies and then stunned by a demolisher or something stupid

[cedar hill]

Well that's also not playing Tokugawa effectively

[somber sapphire]

It is Lancer Tactics not Lancer Run In

[cedar hill]

There's something to be said about not everything in the book(s?) being implemented yet, but running a Tokugawa headlong into danger (I'm assuming while Exposed) is not exactly tactically sound

[weak willow]

I am listening

Cover seems difficult to rely on at best, but I do try to use it to block los

Unreliable though

[cedar hill]

You want to opportunistically use the self-Expose, either that or use things like Arcing/Seeking weapons to reduce your exposure

[weak willow]

I'm not exposing Tokugawa manually

[cedar hill]

Pun intended

[weak willow]

I'm just trying to use torches

[cedar hill]

Torches, multiple

[weak willow]

Nah?

[cedar hill]

Did you have any Lancer experience prior to playing Tactics?

Like actually playing it

I just see you're a relatively new join to the server so I wanna try to tailor feedback

[weak willow]

None

Not new to ttrpgs

[cedar hill]

Gotcha. Well, something that can potentially give you some ideas would be watching some Custom Werks videos from dragonkid11 on YouTube to give you a springboard for ideas re: build options for each mech

Tokugawa is a dangerous mech to play, intentionally, but it's got quite solid stats and unlimited bonus Burn damage up its sleeve which is pretty dang lethal.

Genghis has insane stats and it's heat management tools are crazy as well. Excellent Striker. And Metalmark is quite durable so I'm not quite sure what's going on for you there

[weak willow]

Watched the majority of them so far

[cedar hill]

In that case you probably just need a bit more experience with the system

[weak willow]

Usually base what I'm going for off one of the first (re: least insane) builds he features

Perhaps

Maybe I just need to put more mobility on the Toku so it can jump on its target more effectively

[cedar hill]

Also consider ranged weapons on the Toku

Especially things with Arcing or Seeking which allow you to maintain an offensive presence while not sacrificing a good defensive position

[weak willow]

I'll give that a shot

Blackbeard has been working out for me super well because it has the grapple hook

[cedar hill]

Blackbeard is a very solid melee frame, yeah, just mind enemy hackers

[weak willow]

Yeah I prioritize mortars, snipers, and hackers in that order

[teal flame]

okay so

important thing i’ve learned

you will basically never break LOS

best you can reliably do is getting in hard cover by being adjacent to it

[teal flame]

(because mechs can’t hide behind cover the same height as them)

[alpine sorrel]

Thanks for your thoughts! I'm deep enough into the system that I'm blind wrt the experience of coming to it fresh.

I'd like others here to lay off with the "well you're not doing it right" response. People's experience with the game is their experience with the game. And I'd assign more cause in mechs feeling ineffective to the fact there's not a human GM to modulate the introduction to the frames than player skill.

Every time a GM feeds you a juicy target to burn as a toku (because they're also still getting their feet under themselves or just to give you some enrichment), you're being implicitly on-ramped in a way LT isn't able to do yet.

[stable smelt]

(and, additionally, I'm not sure if LT is set up to pull punches or not yet and I would assume not; NPCs can be fairly brutal if they just go after you, which will probably need some amount of direct adjustment to both 'how bad the AI wants you dead' and 'how much damage it can actually deal', thinking kind of long-term)

[teal flame]

npcs do just fucking kill you, yeah

ESPECIALLY the double fragsys

does the default NPC one even do heat?

okay nevermind, still does

i don't think they should be able to do it twice to the same target though

[orchid pendant]

They can't. NPC full techs are 1 full tech, or 2 different quick techs, unlike PC full tech.

They can't double up on any of their techs.

[bleak cave]

are there any details about the planned campaigns that are available? Scope, subject matter, that type of thing?

i imagine they're not going to be like, full-scale cRPG campaigns (as much as I'd love to see one)

[weak willow]

Thank you all of I do appreciate it

I'm always ready to learn something new and if I'm playing the game wrong I also want to hear it for my own understanding's sake

I had typed out quick thoughts on all the rest of the mechs that are available, if you would like them I would be happy to send them to you, but no obligation of course

[alpine sorrel]

We have two mission modules in the works, both on the order of five-ish combats. For subject matter and setting, see the Kickstarter page. 👍

[alpine sorrel]

Sure! Shoot me a dm 🙂

[heady iris]

my favorite way to play tokugawa is to make him play last on the first round, overclock, killl, then make him play first on round 2 and killll again
at the end of his turn the exposed goes away.
that's why i love tokugawa ranged, you can make full use of his augmented range while overclocking and be safe by being far away from the enemy

[heady iris]

when using spotter 3 i think the lock on should be consumed regardless of the action used.
but if you attack on the reaction and choose to not use the lock on it remains on the target

[teal sundial]

are there plans to add any more character portrait options?

[heady iris]

flechette launcher is hitting blackbeard as well
this is actually funny to me xD

[weak willow]

Oh is it not supposed to

[heady iris]

nope

[weak willow]

I stopped using them because it kept doing more damage to itself than the enemies

LOL

[heady iris]

it's a ranged weapon with range burst 1

[weak willow]

I thought that was working as intended

Manticore would like to know your location

[heady iris]

it would be very silly if it did damage to you as well
the weapon is already pretty underperforming as it is xD

[cedar hill]

For its use case it's pretty damn good

[heady iris]

here some more infiltrator testing

i used the krakatoa flamethrower after starting the turn with hidden
but instead of targeting one enemy, Ambush triggered for all targets hit in the AOE

also when i moved around the berserker at start of my turn while still hidden he got to overwatch me
is that allowed?

archer suppressed me while hidden? xD

[teal flame]

oh yeah, the mourning cloak's fold knives should be accurate iirc?

also wait, should sekhmet be doing bonus damage on rams???

i guess that's RAW

huh

[heady iris]

yea any kind of melee attack if it's a crit it gets +1d6 from sekhmet

you get bonus damage as well if you ram someone while nuke cav is active

[flint portal]

Yes its RAW and RAI that Sekhmet does bonus damage on rams

[tepid temple]

Which frame gets bonus damage on sheep?

[upbeat nacelle]

Hydra, it's got the Shepherd Field trait

[proud dirge]

omg manticore real.... so excited to see this lovely mech in LT

[alpine sorrel]

this dedicated poster was what tipped the scales as to what to work on next: https://itch.io/t/4811538/posting-castigate-until-manticore-is-added

[stable smelt]

[toxic badge]

my hero
I thought about naming all my pilots / mech loadouts "manticore when" for the purposes of submitting bug reports but decided against it

[weak willow]

Posting links to Mick Gordon songs every day until Caliban is added

[proud dirge]

i know caliban is technically outside of crb but i would love to see it in game….

[lilac anchor]

I need to get the money for thet $3333 kickstarter thing so we can have the IPSN Zheng and its alt, Actual Gorilla

[shrewd fulcrum]

I admit while I'd like to see non-CRB licenses, tbh I think the non-CRB mech I'd love to see the most is Sagarmatha and maybe Chomolungma mainly to add a bit of variety to LL0 X3

Though it has been interesting to use only CRB mechs(even if only a portion of them) so far. ❤️

[alpine sorrel]

It makes me realize how much I normally rely on long rim stuff for builds, even if there's not that much of it

[shrewd fulcrum]

yeah

most of my players have admitedly been CRB-only but recently they did begin to make use of alt-frame.

But I will say it's kind of amusing how Long Rim/Wallflower/Solstice Rain do feel like they're this kinda "CRB+" thing(the later two in particular due to adding new LL0 mechs)

(and re: those LL0 frames have definitely seen use in all of my games including higher LL ones ^^; )

OH

I did want to asks, but is Bracing in the game yet(talking about Sagarmatha suddenly reminded me)? There's been a couple of times I've been searching for a "brace" button during attack but couldn't see it so I wondered if it was still yet to be implemented or if I didn't notice the shortcut/etc

[tidal tulip]

brace shows up if the incoming damage is larger than half your current HP iirc

it's very spammy otherwise

[shrewd fulcrum]

Was wondering with the amount of Bombards/etc I've faced thus far ^^:

[alpine sorrel]

Half felt like a good balance, but it was somewhat arbitrary -- what situations have you run into where you wish you could have braced?

[shrewd fulcrum]

Hmmm... It's hard to say, mostly that I don't recall the prompt popping up once but maybe I missed it

hits of 10 damage/etc feels like I didn't get the notifcation but maybe I just couldn't see it

I'll need to playtest more I guess to see what/where I missed it, maybe go out of my way to face "Big Numbers" enemies ^^;

btw, I have to say I was pleasantly surprised to see how Instant Action already cover the separation between Short Rest and Full Repairs!

I've actually been messing a bit with that to simulate informal "missions" for myself while playing X3

[flint portal]

Oh I’m curious but is the brace/predatory logic trick in as well?

Where you can brace a predatory logic to avoid shooting your gun

[alpine sorrel]

no due to the aforementioned change + n/a because we'll be using the rebake version of it that specifically disallows bracing

[flint portal]

Oh gotcha

[burnt frigate]

TECHNICALLY the rebake Witch DOES allow bracing predatory logic, it disallows it specifically if you're in the danger zone

But I'm aware that Lancer Tactics uses some changes to Brace and how it works so I'm not expecting a 1-1 translation

[alpine sorrel]

ah, neat

[burnt frigate]

I think in the context of Lancer Tactics and its brace changes that "can't brace predatory logic" makes more sense from a gameplay streamlining perspective and also just makes it a punchier ability

I kept the dynamic in the rebake because I do think it's clever and offers an interesting avenue of counterplay to go "do I want to shoot my friends with the daisy cutter or do I want the brace drawbacks?" but I can very easily see an argument that it would streamline predatory logic (and law of blades) to not have it be a reaction and instead just "a thing"

or, like, specifically just be a non-braceable attack or whatever

make it a save, etc

[alpine sorrel]

bringing brace into the equation has always felt like a cool & niche but unintended overreach of the option to me so I'm not motivated to bend things weirdly to preserve it

so unless it feels like it's missing in playtests I'm inclined to let it fall to the wayside just because of the other brace changes we've made

[stable smelt]

oh right, can you brace Tear Down in LT?

(I'd assume probably not, but there are a couple tech effects where 'resistance to all Whatever from the attack' can matter over a longer duration. halving heat from Abjure or damage from Drag Down. though brace's downside kinda prevents doing that having a lot of meaning.)

[stable smelt]

anyway my note on brace is that 'more than half your HP' is good.
what I would want is the option for brace to also trigger at a specified damage amount or more in the options menu or something. that might be out of scope or whatever

failing that 'brace pops up if the damage is 10 or more' would also be good

[stable smelt]

(eight, maybe? '8 damage' is usually fairly high. if you can brace attacks that do heat '4+ heat' is also fairly high)

[weak willow]

I will say that an artillery mech spawning in at the beginning of Round 1 and going second after you've only been able to move a single mech of your own is complete BS and has made me hard reset an encounter more than once

if I can't even move all my dudes yet how am I getting punished for positioning

[worthy solar]

Does the game give you a spawn zone that you can space out in, or is the attack just too big?

[weak willow]

attack is too big

spawn zone is usually smaller than the artillery's AOE

enough to fit 4 mechs but not enough to escape the wrath of the computer

sometimes it just means instant structured for 1-2 mechs if they're lower hp

goblins kiss your funny antennae goodbye

[stable smelt]

this is partly a 'AI can't pull punches' problem and partly a 'map is too small for a bombard to be on it if it can swing at the entire party before they move' problem

half 'human GM would not do that' and half 'since the AI currently can't not do that the map should be bigger to keep it from doing that'

[icy creek]

feels like a map design problem tbh

deployment zones should be big enough that a blast 2 doesn't forcibly hit 3 players

oh Joan has already basically covered this

[weak willow]

true

forcing bombards to always spawn on later turns or go last in turn order would be workarounds

[flint portal]

:)

[mild jay]

It have noticed a lot of the maps’ deployment zones tend to be on the smaller end than I’m used to

[flint portal]

(this is something i'm accounting for in the opfor design currently for reference)

[icy creek]

I do think it'd be good to have something like a "map building tips" compilation for LT specifically, since it seems like it'll be using a lot of community made maps

[lilac anchor]

reading through this I agree, and have done that where the DZ is a bit small

[burnt frigate]

Another solution is simply having multiple deployment zones

That is, "here are three DZs you can assign your mechs between" which are spaced out at various angles

[icy creek]

that would also be good

[lilac anchor]

i should try that some time

thats a groovy idea

[shrewd fulcrum]

hmmm

so I playtested a bit more and for some reason I never got the opportunity to brace even against 10hp sniper attacks that dealt more than half one of my character's current HP.

Specifically did a playtest against a group primarily made of snipers/bombards for that purpose.

(recorded a short video, just in case I misunderstood the proper trigger for Brace's prompt to appear so it can be confirmed/denied whether it was normal)

[weak willow]

i've never seen it pop up no

[shrewd fulcrum]

nods same hence why I was wondering. I've seen it mention it's supposed to show up if an attack dealt more than half current HP but despite attacks taking 10hp out of a 2hp mech it just moved to inflicting full damage without a brace prompt or option. Unless it's meant half of current hp in the sense of taking all structure into account as opposed to your current hp "bar"?

(the video recorded with OBS)

[weak willow]

those snipers are second priority after bombards for me for that exact reason. Super dangerous enemies

[shrewd fulcrum]

oh I know. It's why the fact I never got the opportunity to brace their attacks for halved damages has me puzzled.

[weak willow]

today is the first day i've heard about brace no lie

but im not coming from TT

straight to LT

[shrewd fulcrum]

nods it's one of the standard reactions on tabletop; once per round you can "brace" to halve the damages of an attack but on your mech's next turn they can only take a single quick action and have no movement.

Some mechs have even special traits interacting with it like Napelon's braces reducing damage to 1 instead of by half, and Sagarmatha(a non-corebook everest defender alternative) being able to brace once per fight without said penalty thanks to a trait named Heroism which they have instead of the Everest's Initiative.

Some systems also buff brace like reactive weave giving you a movement as you brace and making you invisible until the end of your next turn(but still suffer the usual penalties otherwise when you do so... unless re: again a Sagarmatha using their Heroism trait).

[weak willow]

ohhh interesting

[stable smelt]

(I suppose a concern that should be noted is that brace systems like reactive weave can already be bad at worst and situational at best and getting fewer chances to use them is going to hurt them a bit if they don't let you brace even 'low damage' hits for their effects)

(not sure how LT handles that)

[weak willow]

giving up an action to take less damage is definitely situational at best

but i could definitely see it being necessary

[shrewd fulcrum]

I think LT is supposed to give you a prompt of an attack inflict more than 50% of your mech's current HP?

At least that's what I heard mentioned but I've yet to see the prompt so I'm puzzled if it's something of the latest version and/or on my end?

[stable smelt]

that is what I have heard, yes; I was asking more about how it handles utility brace effects that you might want to use even on 2 damage

[shrewd fulcrum]

I mean I could see something like mechs with brace-related traits or systems gaining the prompts on every attacks instead of the 50% threshold but the real answer to that I guess is "'how much madness does lie down that coding road?" as whether or not that's a viable option

[weak willow]

yeah for sure

[hazy ferry]

Hey the Two Forts community map doesn't seem to work

A single enemy spawns, takes 2 turns, and the player autoloses

On the Payload gamemodes it spawns multiple enemies

But no player mechs

Still lose on turn 2

Actually this seems to be the case for all levels?

They just won't spawn friendlies

[weak willow]

might be a special case for you

they work for me

[hazy ferry]

I just updated to the most recent version

[weak willow]

ahhh

[weak willow]

lemme not update

[icy creek]

ideal lancer gameplay right there

[teal flame]

unfortunately, the long rim requires doing the Lich

…okay actually come to think of it

the lich isn’t that much worse than sisyphus

[icy creek]

now imagine a lich running sisyphus

everytime anything happens to anybody you get a prompt about a d20 roll and a prompt about chronostutter

[heady iris]

i agree that the bracing option doesn't really come up often
the only times i saw it in all of my testing was when i equipped armor lock plating
and it mostly prompted me to brace mainly in response to being grappled

[lilac anchor]

I’ll look into it

it seems normal to me, unsure of your problem, are you using 2fort in the game or 2fort V2?

[hazy ferry]

It isn't just Two Forts

My entire game has that issue

[lilac anchor]

the V2 has a ramp for if your in the water

And i saw that message, sorry I cant help :(

[alpine sorrel]

oh weird! thanks for the footage, it's acting differently for my builds so something strange is going on. Logged as a bug 👍

[alpine sorrel]

thanks for the report — I'm also unable to reproduce on normal sitreps, but see it happening for the "use map settings" sitrep (which shouldn't allow you to launch w/ it ending immediately, so there's a bug there). I'll keep trying to repro

[hazy ferry]

Those didn't let me launch

Happening with both Community and Official maps as well

[alpine sorrel]

whoa

[hazy ferry]

On every gamemode, except Extraction which spawned more than one before basically the same thing happening

As far as I can tell the game doesn't spawn my mechs and because of that thinks they are dead and so ends the sitrep

[alpine sorrel]

would you mind sending me some log files? you can find them in your user data folder by going to Options -> Data -> and pressing the yellow button

then they'll be in /logs

[hazy ferry]

Okay can do

This is the kind of early bugs I willingly sign up for every chance I get

[alpine sorrel]

I appreciate your service

[hazy ferry]

Just generating a log with Payload Pipeline

[alpine sorrel]

for some reason it doesn't like the lancers you've picked:
!!! -> Launch picker aborting due to lack of valid unit cores.

[hazy ferry]

I chose default ones

The 4 non-everest defaults

Ohhh I see

I see I see I seeeeee

The game considered them destroyed for some reason

Despite me having never used them before

That's peculiar

[alpine sorrel]

ahaha fascinating

[hazy ferry]

Also may I recommend a warning when 1-3 mechs are destroyed and not letting combat start if 4 are destroyed?