Lancer Tactics

[elfin peak]

@alpine sorrel on multiplayer, I believe all you need to do is throw on the godot steam plugin and the steam API files into the root folder (no code changes) and it will already work with steams remote screen share function which is all you really need for a virtual tabletop.

[crimson merlin]

I think the Kai rebake looks good. I'm about to start using it in new game

[alpine sorrel]

I hear ya, but also

[tepid temple]

Not the GM having to scan now too 😭

[alpine sorrel]

if the players won't, someone's got to

[tepid temple]

How the tabletop games turn

[alpine sorrel]

Linux build just went up on itch, btw

[icy creek]

Eh I wouldn't be upset about having to scan but I would be annoyed at not being able to remember which is the rebake ability and which one isn't. Falls into the "similar enough to be confusing" zone for me

[lone cliff]

i mean once again you can always just like, have an in-game encyclopedia to consult?

like i dont think most people memorize NPC abilities to the extent that they never need to consult the book or pdf or compcon or whatever

[dim locust]

Hiya. Just got the game afew days ago and want to work on map making some(anyone know how to set stuff up? I am struggling to make objectives but I've successfully made it work alittle to get to a survival-ish scenario (it gets pretty hard quick though)

[teal flame]

aw it looks like non-multistress NPCs can't go above their heat cap

[flint portal]

Yeah that's how that works

in the core book too

[dim locust]

Yep,its funny when you +1 heat a grunt and they just combust into scrap

[dim locust]

Any maps anyone wants to share btw?

[alpine sorrel]

Titania has some good ones, but you can already see em in instant action

Do you have any questions in particular about the map maker? I'm not going to be able to put together a good general resource until things solidify a bit more, but am happy to try and answer questions.

I think you can also open up the tutorial map to see some example triggers.

[zinc plank]

Is LT gonna get hex grid support?

[tidal tulip]

@alpine sorrel Booted it up on my steamdeck and i can't get the window to be small enough... I also can't seem to set the UI scale to anything smaller than 2x. The window is about twice the length and width of my screen space

this is in desktop mode

by adding it as a non-steam game to my library and then launching it from game-mode, it fits now

Hmm.. seems unclickable, either by button or touchscreen when in game mode

[latent sandal]

it's so peak

[earnest sedge]

I second this, I was quite shocked to hear this and would prefer original npcs! I did not expect to have to learn new homebrew rules and don't really wish to, especially because I regularly do not play with the rebake and I will trip over playing with rebake and then playing without on tabletop. ;_;

[drifting crater]

I also backed the project under the thought it was going to be the base rules and maybe some neat olive exclusives. It's been a great project to watch until now.

[proven grotto]

While I do understand the need for change when adapting across mediums, having an entirely different set of NPCs would make my job as a GM on various WM servers a little difficult with players being somewhat mislead on how some NPCs function after learning the ruleset in tactics only to find that it works entirely differently in the game itself.

[tired aurora]

Lol. The BaldurGate effect

[elfin peak]

I'm still happy with the game either way and don't regret my purchase but I would prefer the base NPCs

[earnest sedge]

I'm back and yeah, honestly, I still do feel a little bit upset about this even trying to calm down. I'm trying to be respectful about it, but it just doesn't feel right to not voice my uncertainty. I've got new friends that I actually recommended tactics to briefly, and now I have to tell them that tactics won't be a representation of the base game. I don't know how to tell this to them. I also don't know how I could have predicted this, backing the game.

I bought tactics thinking that it would be CRB, and I feel like the tag was misrepresented because I expected Lancer, not, uh. A custom ruleset that didn't even exist at the time of backing. It just... doesn't feel like what I was promised/paid for? It feels like a slight breach of trust regardless. I'm sorry, it's just... ;___;;;;

I mean, I still believe in this, it's just... yeah...

[proven grotto]

TBH, I think the solution here is just to rename the NPCs to remove that element of confusion. If the rebake NPCs are what's going to be used, it would be better if they had distinct names from the originals so that players coming into the game from tactics don't get confused and experienced lancer players playing tactics don't have to get confused by what's homebrew and what's not.

[nocturne forum]

I'll admit, I'm not 100% sure how a video game having different mechanics than an RPG will cause trouble. I play Battletech (Tabletop) and Battletech (Video game), which draw some inspiration from each other but are very distinct games.

Regardless, framing it as a 'breach of trust' is rather a lot.

[tired aurora]

Though I say that this is a pretty good solution

[tepid cipher]

I am of the opinion that lancer tactics is a lancer based video game, not a lancer video game.

It's like baldurs gate. It will not match up to dnd 1:1 due to limitations of the media. If the creator wants to make things that are simpler/easier for them, then I feel we should respect that decision.

We aren't developing the game, and as such, we don't get to make those choices.

Furthermore, i feel that core lancer does have some flaws that require a human gm to moderate. With a gm playing full send optimally, it can be somewhat miserable. As such, a sidegrade might be a good idea.

While i personally would prefer OG lancer, i understand the differences could make it a lot easier to dev. Do what sparks joy olive 👍

[tired aurora]

Mechanics not translating 100% from medium to medium and have to be changed to prioritise fun is a perfectly reasonable thing

[flint portal]

One example here is that Lancer Tactics (to my knowledge) is going to just be in square grid while Lancer itself can be played in hexes OR a square grid

[fickle pecan]

Bladurs gate 3 doesnt just solve adaptation issues its like, an active attempt to make 5e more dynamic

[proven grotto]

I personally would prefer that neither the original nor the rebake NPCs get translated over since both would largely be a little clunky when controlled by a game AI. But that's additional workload of a level that I think would be a bit unfair to expect for a single person.

[fickle pecan]

Nor is lancer tactics just a lancer universe video game inspired by the tabletop - its a direct adaptation

I dont super hard have a preference but I dont think these are really accurate comparisons and I do think its fair to view this as a change in scope

I think I mostly agree that making npcs that use their abilities effectively and consistently by a program is kinda just making a third set of npcs in many ways

But that’s something that does definitely have to happen as an adaptational issue

And this kinda also ties into difficulty settings being a desired accessibility feature

[earnest sedge]

Yeah, this is a good solution actually! I don't mind this as much as it doesn't like, interfere with the original npcs.

[proven grotto]

As always, there's a relevant XKCD comic for this sort of thing.

[nocturne forum]

...I'm not sure that's really a super viable option, as the rebake NPCs kinda...overlap a lot in general role. You'd have twice as much work for only like +10/15% extra encounter options.

[earnest sedge]

I too play battletech (tabletop) and battletech (videogame) and they are distinct, but like... I kind of actually knew what I was getting into when I got them (different)-- in this case, I don't see how I could have expected that a whole new homebrew would come out and it would get included.

To be exact, what I'm particularly worried about is that the homebrew rules will 'replace' the original CRB rules, as then I can't really help out the people I'm introducing to the game. If they're a different named set of npcs, then there is no problem as it's supplementary

[fickle pecan]

The suggestion is that the original npcs wouldnt exist at all, just renamed rebake ones. No overlap

[nocturne forum]

Sure but at that point you're just...going through a thesaurus for something that doesn't affect the in-game effect at all.

[proven grotto]

yeah, say instead of a "archer" you now have something like "watchman" so now players no longer get confused between versions.

[nocturne forum]

I also think it might be a bit trickier to get permission over 'hey, we're going to use your NPCs but not actually credit them as those NPCs'

[flint portal]

I'm not Olive and I wanna be clear my involvement with this game is only purely on encounter building and making maps for one of the campaigns (wanna make that clear considering i'm involved in this), but I don't know how much LT aims to be an entry point to teach you how to play and run the game at your own table, you'd still have to learn the pdf and brush up on the rules if you wanna run Lancer anyway

That's maybe something Olive can clarify themselves

[tired aurora]

I personally think the best method is to tailor make an npc roster for the game itself, in a way that makes coding easy and make the game fun and interesting.

[proven grotto]

idk if that would be easier. It would certainly be better but that would also require more playtesting most likely.

[earnest sedge]

Honestly, I'd prefer that over using the homebrew rules even, it would be less confusing

[proven grotto]

it'd be my preference as well but I am not the one coding this, so I don't really have much perspective on what Olive would find easier to do.

[nocturne forum]

...I mean, doing up a full new NPC roster is 'Make a significant chunk of a new game'

[tidal tulip]

"homebrew rules" is being disingenuous. rebake NPCs are 95% the same character identities as core

they're more like core v1.5

[proven grotto]

they end up playing quite differently in practice a lot of the time

[earnest sedge]

like having a set of npcs specific to the game itself, rather than like 'oh lancer tactics doesn't use the core CRB, instead it uses NPC rules that are from this specific homebrew' 'why not the original CRB'

and instead something more similar to the battletech tabletop game where instead of using homebrew npcs, but npcs specifically made for the game seems like it'd be more fun yeah

[nocturne forum]

Eh, that I'd disagree with. They are definitively homebrew. Homebrew isn't a dirty word and Kai has always been very big on making clear what's homebrew and what's actula design work for massif

[unreal hatch]

I think there's still a point to be made that when people were originally giving their money on Patreon for the project, something like using a custom ruleset (like Kai's Rebake here) wasn't exactly on the table. If it were custom QoL changes it'd have a different feel that someone else's entire project being inserted into LT.

I'm not Olive and she can do whatever the fuck she wants, but I feel like with how much I've seen the Rebake project sway from the core of Lancer, it'll just feel weird. Baldur's Gate didn't wear DnD 5e on its sleeve like this project kinda ended up doing.

[unreal hatch]

I've looked at the project extensively, they are changed a rather high amount, they just have a similar blueprint.

[tired aurora]

Yeah. I think the no1 priority should be to "make a fun game" and not "make an accurate Lancer tutorial" and Olive should pick whichever method best serve that purpose

[unreal hatch]

I haven't given my money to the project so I can't state much or pretend I have... any weight here, really? But I also don't feel like implementing the Rebake is that good of a solution since imo it'll spawn issues elsewhere that the CRB variants do.

But that's me. I'll probably still play it anyway as I respect Olive's work.

[proven grotto]

^

[flint portal]

To be fair changes to the game were outlined as possibilities on the kickstarter, and projects changing along the way is already sorta baked into crowdfunding, for example the game was supposed to look different early on but now it has adopted a whole different style look wise

[earnest sedge]

Yeah, that's the core of why I'm upset. It's not something I could have predicted as the homebrew came out after the kickstarter. I didn't ask for these changes and weren't aware. I think Olive should do whatever she wants to make it a fun game, but also like... this is a massive change, wasn't part of the playtesting for the rebake, how what when why and just like ?

And it makes tactics so much different from Lancer

i've been following olive's blog and have been really enjoying it! but like, this? it's like (?????!!???)

[proven grotto]

A lot of it is just that it feels a bit weird to go from "lancer with some changes to account for the medium" to "lancer with published homebrew and QoL changes to account for the medium"

[nocturne forum]

...wait, didn't you just agree you'd like them doing up a full custom roster? That is just as much a step away from corebook lancer as using the rebake NPCs.

[unreal hatch]

I'm aware of that Eld and I'm not trying to wave some flag of "ooooh how dare Olive make any changes to Lancer Tactics, where is my Rules as Written game!!!" or anything, no, still her project, her bucks to use wherever she wants and all that. It's more that the Rebake from my reading of it borders on more or less an overhaul rather than quality of life-style changes.

Which I feel like would be more suited here, at least from my perspective.

[earnest sedge]

My preference is for the CRB, but I'm trying to work with you and compromise! I'm trying to be respectful and consider other views.

[unreal hatch]

But ultimately whatever makes Olive happier and more satisfied with the project wins here, and whatever doesn't make it stuck in development hell.

[proven grotto]

A full custom roster would be better than a homebrew roster that is still not perfectly designed for a video game.

The rebake NPCs are neither entirely optimal for the medium nor are they first party lancer.

So it's kind of a worst of both worlds in many respects.

[unreal hatch]

I say, staring at my own projects that I've had sitting in the oven for years and ended up dropping due to it

[nocturne forum]

Work with me? I'm not part of this project in any capacity.

[earnest sedge]

But yes, I see the rebake as more of an overhaul rather than like, the blog posts olive has been doing to describe the changes

For custom npcs we would be able to see why and how, not well-- suddenly everything is different?

[earnest sedge]

Work with you in a conversational sort of way! Like, uh, just. trying to communicate? Consider other viewpoints?

[flint portal]

I think completely custom npcs is as much of a departure from core as using the rebakes would, the only difference being that one would require completely new work while the other two (crb or rebakes) already have framework to go off from

[viscid oriole]

so if a blog post was made explaining why for each rebake NPC it'd be cool?

[earnest sedge]

Yeah, at least I would have known what was going into instead of just (???!!!???)

[proven grotto]

it's just a kind of uncomfortable middleground for the most part. It's not streamlined for the game's needs but it's also not faithful to the source. So you get something that resembles the core NPCs, is mechanically different but still lacks a lot of the advantages that a more loose adaptation would have.

[earnest sedge]

/nodnod like, as a fellow game dev i'm just. weirded out by adapting wholesale kind of thing here when you should go through and adapt the npcs to make your game fun

The original CRB issues are tested way more extensively than the new homebrew just by dint of time existed

[tired aurora]

Correct. But at least it will be tailored to the design and code of the videogame, and not trying to be uncomfortably adapt from a different medium. It is not like Olive cannot take inspiration from both of those source and make things that resemble them but different

[earnest sedge]

YEAH!! /Nodnodnodnod

[nocturne forum]

...I mean, that also sounds like a kinda unfeasible increase in total work.

Like 'Instead of X or Y with minor adaptions, Invent Z from scratch'

[tidal tulip]

a 3rd version of the npcs will be even less playtested

[tired aurora]

I mean. Olive does not necessarily have to do to it alone.

[nocturne forum]

It's still 'Invent an entirely new set of NPCs, instead of having an existing framework to start with'

[calm charm]

I think that if the NPC rebakes are something that you consider to be more fun to interact with than the base NPCs you should probably use those, especially if it also has the benefits listed in the blog post of not having to figure out how to implement a bunch of NPC traits that aren't even particularly worth using in the first place

but I have no particular attachent to the adaption being faithful to the tabletop game aside from that it makes implementing it easier

[proven grotto]

Olive also does not necessarily need to get the same amount of NPCs done, if they are not gonna be adapted from the CRB anyways, it wouldn't really matter if 100% of it was ported over then.

[flint portal]

end of the day this is still my thought on this, it all depends on what Olive wants LT that be

[tired aurora]

I guess that is because from your perspective. The "framework" is a positive thing. But from my perspective, it is a restrictive barrier that increases workload to accommodate it.

[nocturne forum]

...then go make your own game.

[calm charm]

adapting something which already exists isn't a restrictive increase to workload it removes the workload because someone already did it

[tired aurora]

I am actually but that irrelevant. You did not have to resort to try to insult me like that.

[unreal hatch]

That's kind of saying like all of them would need to be vastly different. I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to just do quality of life things that are commonly discussed amongst the community like making Juggernaut more interactive. Seeing how those changes play out in the game, which this will be primarily for anyway and not for tabletop use, shouldn't make that much of a ruckus in terms of playtesting.

[calm charm]

starting over from scratch with nothing to target is significantly more work to a very large degree

[flint portal]

Putting it out there but I know completely custom npcs would increase my workload and would make it harder for me to use the skills I was brought onboard to use

[proven grotto]

There's kind of already a big overlap in roles with core NPCs so having 1-2 good defender NPCs might be both easier and better than 3-5 adaptations that aren't faithful to core anyways.

Plus, having a simpler roster may make writing the AI a lot easier down the road.

[flint portal]

I know how to do encounter design with CRB and Rebakes, i don't know how to do encounter and map design with npcs i've never seen before

[tired aurora]

I think we are having different ideas of what we are talking about. Let's bring up some concrete examples.

Let say Olive is trying to make Javelin Rocket on the enemy Rainmaker. The problem is that the AI is not smart enough to efficiently utilise that ability. So instead of trying to accomodate the existing design by improving the AI, she should change the design. To something like "pick 3 random tile exactly 3 space from the targetted player." Which would be much easier to code than say, letting the Rainmaker spawn the javelin rokket awywhere.

The core of my argument is that both the Core and the Rebake have elements that will be hard to translate, and it is better to just change those elements than accommodating them.

[calm charm]

that seems like two separate concerns to me, one is what the ability does and one is what the ai actually does with it

there's no need to change the ability's function in that case, it already encompasses being able to do what you said

[tired aurora]

Yeah. That was a bad example let me try another...

[viscid oriole]

the core book NPCs were unlikely to ever be imported without some changes due to the medium too, i don't see why there's an assumption the rebake NPCs will just be dropped in there with absolutely no thought behind it

[flint portal]

This feels like the current discussion is going into a lot of hypotheticals and is also getting a bit heated so it may be time to put a temporary pin on this

no last words please

[tired aurora]

I agree. But if it is changed either way. It is better if there are new names for these guys anyway.

[viscid oriole]

please read what eld said

[flint portal]

(hey, please, look one message above, thanks)

[tidal tulip]

Anyways, i'm excited to play this on my steamdeck

[unreal hatch]

Steamdeck? Rookie shit, where's your smart fridge

That's the REAL gaming console

[tidal tulip]

MFW my fridge is running Windows

[unreal hatch]

I mean it needs to have windows. How else you gonna see if the light's still on when the door is closed?

[drifting crater]

So do we message Olive directly to ask for a refund due to the pivot off the kickstarter's original design document or is there a different method that's suggested? The email wasn't overly clear with how to handle it.

Debate doesn't really show the director the level of dissatisfaction as much as a financial change does.

[flint portal]

This isn't even a thing that's going to happen for sure

The kickstarter post mentions it as a possibility, you're going to have to wait and see if what's decided

[drifting crater]

If the possibility is selected, the cost to back something that changes scope from exactly what one backed it for to go run homebrew rules doesn't quite hit the same.
As every outcry out says, vote with your wallets.

[primal sage]

... I'm only just catching up to this, and you guys need to calm the fuck down. The news post is just a dev thinking out loud about design and looking for feedback and now the latest messages in this channel are about boycotts?

[drifting crater]

boycott is a strong word

[primal sage]

Quick reminder: Kickstarter is an investment platform, it's not a store you can return your purchases to unless the creator is feeling something really wild necessitates it

"Debate doesn't really show the director the level of dissatisfaction as much as a financial change does." consider this poetic license from me then

[drifting crater]

There have been instances of that happening

[primal sage]

That's not this.

I'll be blunt: I think the outrage here is stupid and more than stupid it's toxic and I don't want it on pilot net

Give creators room to think out loud Jesus

[drifting crater]

It's great the other changes done to the design so far, this is just one that the people have some fire about.
The character designer is top notch

[primal sage]

I don't care about "the people", you all need to stop with this "fire"

[primal sage]

Let's be clear here: an indie creator created a post going "hey guys what do you think about this? Pros and cons as I see them. I'm curious about your feedback" and you're calling for refunds

[drifting crater]

I'm not calling to burn the poor soul at the stake

[primal sage]

It certainly reads like it. If you don't understand the impact of your words then just say less please

[calm charm]

to be clear this change of scope also wouldn't be you being lied to "I will likely end up changing things during the course of adaption" is part of the initial kickstart pitch, there's no pivot

[drifting crater]

This has gotten a bit personal It's not overly safe to continue this conversation.

[primal sage]

happy to shut this down, yes. eld already asked to end it. Let's do that

[elfin peak]

Agreed

[alpine sorrel]

https://tenor.com/view/the-darkest-timeline-community-gif-18212973

just got caught up. thanks for the thoughts all, our core team has some meetings scheduled for this week to look at all the responses the post has gotten and synthesize a summary of the positions as we see em

[rugged copper]

thank u for making LT, love your work and love the passion + consistent communication

despite the detonation today, i'm extremely thankful for how many progress updates you give, and your public thought processes

[gaunt plume]

I'm happy with LT as a whole. I've loved the dev logs and just kinda messing with each release to feel the iterative changes. It's fun being able to see an active project being worked on and the sort of behind-the-scenes for how it's coming together in the form of the dev logs. There's something to be said about the enjoyment that comes from watching artists/devs work on something

[alpine sorrel]

Thanks for testing this! I've added "run it on my steam deck and hash out these issues" to my todo list.

[void hornet]

Having steam deck compatibility would be huge (huge is a bit of an overstatement, but it would be nice)

[gaunt plume]

I second that. I'd love to be able to do so on my steam deck

[golden rover]

I agree with whatever decision your team makes.

[lone cliff]

ive seen your fears that people will view Lancer Tactics as "its basically VTT for a GM-less Lancer TTRPG" instead of its own tactics game, which is super understandable and I feel where a good amount of friction (people thinking it's a VTT with computer as the GM) for these proposed changes are coming from

thank you for your hard work and whatever way you go i think you'll make the most of it

[tired aurora]

I hope your game does well. Not just as a Lancer game but as an Indie game in general!

[alpine sorrel]

Just uploaded a ironed out linux build (0.2.7) to itch. I was shocked at how well it works on the deck now that those resolution issues are sorted out. (only in normal desktop mode, though -- adding as a non-steam game makes it launch in a weird state that I think is more than I can track down rn)

also I recommend getting the itch app on the deck's desktop mode if you haven't already -- makes updating to new versions as effortless as it is on steam

[void hornet]

i do wonder if the windows version would work with just the proton experimental setting on the deck

cause that often times does the trick

and could save you some dev time for the deck specifically

(not that a native/semi native version would hurt)

[slow helm]

i look up

man.

anyways I'm super looking forward to the next version

Adore the work you all have been putting in and the map creator here is shockingly robust

-# please give me vehicles I can drop on roads as cover and also corner slopes i would die a happy woman

[alpine sorrel]

I also dearly want corner slopes. They're on the list as you can probably tell with the placeholder UI for them. Vehicles I don't think are but probably should be.

[slow helm]

A size 1 1x1 car and a size 2 2x1 truck, maybe with wrecked variations, would help add a good sense of scale to the world and make putting cover into urban fights easier

the moment corner slopes are in i will have the prettiest hills ever

[nocturne forum]

As cover rather than characters would make sense. Let's you add cover to roads in a natural way

[tired aurora]

cars are just vehicle shaped buildings

[elfin peak]

Goblin in a smart car

[honest wave]

Superheavy mounting core power is gonna be so silly in Lancer tactics once it becomes available

[heady iris]

oh boy
my pilot section is gonna quadruplicate just because of that core power xD

also sending mechs off the map with good old D/D

@alpine sorrel sometimes i like running a longer game and have fun killing a lot of robots, helps me test out longer games as well
but the 8 rounds limit always keeps me from pulling out everything from my pilots
could i ask to have an option to increase the rounds' limit?

[alpine sorrel]

That's a great idea. Added to the list.

[toxic badge]

not a bug report, but I'm begging for the game to show me a li'l popup with current status effects / relevant passives when I hover over a unit continue showing the li'l popup w/ relevant status stuff regardless of zoom level 🙏
just missed a CPR shot because the sentinel was invisible via dataveil 😭
same goes for dispersal shield / investiture / etc. would be nice if temporary passives were also displayed in the little on-unit info hud widget

[alpine sorrel]

Oy vey. Agree and noted but likely not get to that until the next polish pass fairly far down the line. A better token invis effect is also on the docket.

So you can just like see that they're protected

[deft rapids]

Invisible indicator that's just a little animated hand waving back and forth in front of the npc

[torpid crane]

faint john cena theme whenever the invis unit is in frame

[deft rapids]

https://tenor.com/view/john-cena-you-cant-see-me-dance-dances-dancing-gif-15529670

[mild jay]

Don’t forget when entering the danger zone, playing the song by the same name

[flint portal]

HIGHWAY

TO

THE

DANGER ZOOOOONE

(I'll always remember you making an icon for that mantis)

(bless you)

[mild jay]

Feels like such a long time ago now

[flint portal]

partner in posting crimes

I remember, back then you went by... cancermantis

🤔

[mild jay]

An era before “Antifa Slut”

[hazy ferry]

If a Raleigh is in the scene, Big Iron plays

On loop until the scene ends or Raleigh dies

[icy creek]

is superheavy mounting gonna be in LT? I thought the scope was core book stuff and didn't include expansion content

[alpine sorrel]

correct; no expansion content is even a twinkle in our eyes yet

[icy creek]

you get to avoid the horrors of Implementing Calendula

[magic cave]

the callie doesn't seem all too horrors frankly

s'just a matter of getting intangible implemented really

[stable smelt]

I have bad news about the mourning cloak.

[gaunt plume]

Damn

[gaunt plume]

Also the void husks and how they interact with enemies as well as all the Slowed stuff that are a consequence of that

Calendula seems more simple on paper but when in actual use it can get messy as the board fills up with husks

Raleigh and Calendula tie for my favorite

Still not as much of a dev nightmare as the Lich seems like it might be (I'm no dev so I have no clue how valid that statement actually is)

[hazy ferry]

No werewolf 😔

Can't wait for castigate

[kindred maple]

So I just decided to check this out again after first seeing it as a demo and it’s going to be a full game now? Hell yeah.

[teal flame]

(unless you count the barebones kobold in the old demo)

[heady iris]

Thank you so much for making this one it has quickly become my favorite playtest map🧡

[alpine sorrel]

writing up a rebake comments digestion post

[tired aurora]

Love that Demolisher sprite btw

[alpine sorrel]

Gen's work is amazing

[heady iris]

Pffft
i think we need to tweak teleport+flight a bit more
now when i have active teleport and flying it teleports up to boosting speed without boosting and every time i teleport it only uses up 1 movement

[icy creek]

taking that "teleport counts as 1 space of movement" too literally

[slow helm]

mourning cloak buff

[heady iris]

i can feel the speed

[mild jay]

Barry? Barry Allen, is that you?

[heady iris]

also noticed that while flying and blinded i can't hit characters next to me

[alpine sorrel]

incredible 😂 noted

[alpine sorrel]

This I think is working as intended, since you are 3 spaces up and not adjacent. You should be able to voluntarily land though — is the action button for that showing up?

[heady iris]

it is
all working as intended then🧡

worth it xD

[alpine sorrel]

WOW

How likely is that? The combat drill code is convoluted enough I don't have faith it's bugless.

[icy creek]

Doesn't seem terribly off; looks like 14 d6s would have been rolled as part of the damage (4 base, 3d6 from bonus, doubled from crit)

Its still not terribly likely but due to how exploding dice compound it seems like it'd be in the realm of ~1% unlikely rather than cosmically unlikely

Anydice says about 7% chance to roll at least 5 1s on 14d6; you'd then be rolling another 15d6 for the exploding dice, which is just under 50% chance to roll at least 3 more ones. So back-of-napkin analysis is you have at least a 3.5% to roll 8 1s off this bonus damage stacked combat drill

[crimson merlin]

Exploding rerolls is crazy

[void hornet]

The combat drill gets hard to calculate specifics cause it not only rerolls but also adds dice

But expected heat/extra die per die is 1/5th

Cause 1/6 + 1/6^2 + 1/6^3... To Infinity is 1/5th

[void hornet]

 if N = 1 { result: [explode d6] + [explode d6] }
 result: N
}

set "maximum function depth" to 9
output 4d[explode d6]```
I think this is right?

It gives a mean of 20

Edited to the max depth anydice managed to compute

[earnest sedge]

Sudden quick question, will lancer Tactics ever open another funding run? A friend asked about it and was like 'i want a pilot in it, but its already closed'

[alpine sorrel]

Unlikely; we're currently re-setting up backerkit as a store page to sell off the rest of the stickers+coins but I needed to close off the pilot inputs because the only way I can get them out is by doing manual downloads, screening for appropriateness/copyright, and pasting them in-game and it stopped being a good use of my time for the trickle that remained.

[elfin peak]

You guys are making me realise how extra crazy and dangerous an OPCal combat drill would be

[hazy ferry]

I dunno if opcal counts actually

[elfin peak]

I mean it's an extra d6?

[worldly violet]

Bonus damage gets the drill's exploding dice. It's very scary for everyone involved

[elfin peak]

I will have to fit this onto a manticore somehow

There is no overheating, only extra damage!

[smoky glacier]

combat drill can explicitly trigger its overkill bonus damage off of 1s rolled on bonus damage
opcal is bonus damage

[hazy ferry]

Huh

Neat

[deft rapids]

there is no kill like overkill

and there is no overkill like combat drill

[icy creek]

yes mean of 20 is correct- it's actually pretty easy to mathematically calculate the mean of a non crit combat drill, or of exploding dice in general. ||Let X be the average of a single exploding drill d6; then X = 1/6 (2X) + 1/6 (2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6). This means every d6 as part of a combat drill's base damage should ultimately be 5 average damage after factoring for rerolls||. In fact it's also pretty easy to calculate how many times on average the dice should explode (X dice should result in X/4 explosion triggers on average).

unfortunately A) it's super hard to calculate averages of crits and B) averages don't actually tell you how likely/unlikely a particular result is

[elfin peak]

Now I'm wondering how many easy ways there are to add another dice to a combat drill

It might be OPCal combat drill mourning cloak? Which sounds wildly impractical

Teleports behind you then self detonates

[mild jay]

With a base heat cap of 4? That's a meltdown

Easy to add nuclear cavalier in though

[elfin peak]

Hey... Blast vents proc whenever you clear heat

Technically overheating clears your heat...

[alpine sorrel]

This just in: mourning cloak can castigate harder than the manticore

[elfin peak]

A friend pointed out the nelsons thermal charges

So OPCal Thermal charge Combat drill Manticore?

[mild jay]

Nah, mourning cloak for the Hunter bonus damage. Which I did actually use with the thermal charges

That'd be opcal, thermal charge, hunter trait, and nuclear cavalier 2 for 4d6 bonus damage I think?

Then you lose all stress at once and explode

[stable smelt]

atlas would be easier since you need them prone anyway.

[elfin peak]

I mean if you have the combat drill you already have the nailgun
edit: Oh right+1d6 on prone targets too

[mild jay]

Yeah that's the thing, there's multiple ways to inflict the statuses combat drill needs, but only mourning cloak has the hunter trait

Course this is tabletop, unless people can figure out how to mod in the superheavy mounting core power it won't be an option in lancer tactics

[elfin peak]

The nelson could pull it off too with an overcharge for the boost

Amber phantom also has a 1d6 source iirc?

[stable smelt]

yeah there are several sources of +1d6 you can use for superheavy shenanigans. the amber phantom is not one of them because it has three mounts already

[heady iris]

you're welcome now add sekhmet and lucifer if you do a dip in Horus for an extra nhp xD

actually lucifer won't help, nevermind that

better go for nelson

[heady iris]

as far as mods go you can only use one sadly, so either nelson charge or amber shock wreath

[elfin peak]

Nelson seems like the best option since you need it for thermal charges anyway

Makes it a workable build at LL5

[heady iris]

consider that if you're going for a long campaign going metalmark can give your character more variability with two more frames and stealth options to play with

[heady iris]

here give this build i just made a look
massmizes damage on combat drill with good utility for your team by taking hits directed to your allies and punishing the attacker with your spiky damage as well
black witch spear for easy immobilization thx also to spaceborn 3 and you can overcharge and use your drill in one turn for huge burst

[ LICENSES ]
  IPS-N Vlad 3, IPS-N Blackbeard 3, SSC Metalmark 3, SSC White Witch 3
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Overpower Caliber, Reinforced Frame, Full Subjectivity Sync, Gyges Frame
[ TALENTS ]
  Executioner 3, Nuclear Cavalier 3, Spaceborn 3, Duelist 3, Pankrati 2, Brutal 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:6 AGI:6 SYS:0 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:33 ARMOR:2
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:8 REPAIR:7
  TECH ATK:-2 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:7 EVA:16 EDEF:8 SENSE:5 SAVE:17
[ WEAPONS ]
  Integrated: Fuel Rod Gun
  FLEX MOUNT: Ferrofluid Lance
  MAIN MOUNT: SUPERHEAVY WEAPON BRACING
  HEAVY MOUNT: Combat Drill (Shock Wreath) // Overpower Caliber
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Reinforced Cabling, SEKHMET-Class NHP, Pinning Spire, Camus’s Razor, Personalizations```

[elfin peak]

Also LL12 tho

[heady iris]

takes LL9 to get max damage on the drill
LL8 if you go for neslson instead so i went over adding white* witch that has awesome systems for a vlad

[mild jay]

So we've been talking about getting as many bonus damage dice on the drill as possible, which is why we were talking about mourning cloak and nelson - they have frame traits that grant a bonus damage die, and the nelson license has a mod that grants bonus a bonus damage die

It hasn't really been about making a good or optimal build, just like a sorta cheesy puzzle

[heady iris]

btw, this demolisher stepped on my webjaw snare, got immobilized and then walked it off like nothing happened xD

[heady iris]

my meltdown damage also got through intangible to surrounding enemies

apparently using false idol 2 times in the same turn makes the second idol to not replace the one already created and burns the action cost anyway

also, if you select a target for the idol and then cancel the teck, it will use up the action cost

[alpine sorrel]

thx for the reports 👍 👍

false idol will hound me for the rest of development, I'm positive

[empty vortex]

Hey, just bought Lancer Tactics! Is it possible to run it on a Chromebook?

[alpine sorrel]

I don't know, if you want to test you'd be the first I think

[alpine sorrel]

I'm having trouble reproing this one. I just fixed a bug where the AI never attacks a triggered webjaw snare, but I can't get an immobilized unit (which it looks like that demolisher is) to be able to keep taking voluntary movements. Did you have some kind of reaction chain on the stack? I see some semplar vigilos, etc

[earnest sedge]

Thank you for the reply! Good to know, I will pass it on!

[heady iris]

Definitely on both the vald and the minotaur that was just a bit ahead of the demolisher, looks like it was moving towards him, ignoring my vlad

I'll try to test more of this

[empty vortex]

Unfortunately it's looking to be impossible, damn

However I don't actually know how to run Itch.io games on it

From the files

[alpine sorrel]

After some googling, it looks like you need to enable a setting to "turn on Linux" which sets up a Linux virtual machine:

In your Chromebook settings, under "Developers" you'll find the "Linux development environment" setting. Click "Turn on" and follow the on-screen instructions to set it up.

I don't know the details, but you'll need to somehow get the Linux build of the game somewhere in the filesystem that that VM can access.

After then you should be able to execute LancerTactics.x86_64 to run the game

It looks like there are video walkthroughs for installing other Linux apps; one of those might be a useful guide.

[heady iris]

same
can't say how it happened but i'm gonna keep an eye out and keep testing the snare

[heady iris]

oh! my annihilator didn't attack adjacent enemies

i am using a radiance tokugawua overclocked with external batteries
huge range :D

[heady iris]

oh! and i also used the shock mod from walking armory

maybe it was actually that to cause issues

is lock on not affected by metahook? other techs work alright

[heady iris]

wait that's not a system xD

shouldn't Maze Corepower be affected by Metahook as well? not sure of this one

[stable smelt]

the minotaur's core power isn't a tech action.

[heady iris]

thought so

all good then

A!
i started my turn with 9/14 heat and deepheatsink active but when i pressed lucifer i got 6 heat anyway and stressed

[alpine sorrel]

New post about the rebake is up! https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wickworks/lancer-tactics/posts/4379409

I literally spent all week thinking and talking about this. I'm so tired, but feel really solid about where we landed.

[heady iris]

this one is fun xD
my vlad got in a very bad spot, stunned and surrounded by berserkers
luckily i have a minotaur, so i made the vlad disappear from the map.
round went on and i forgot of him until the game wasn't going ahead anymore and then i realized,
wait! MY VLAd! xD
i tried clicking where i saw him last time and he popped out of nowhere

[carmine bane]

Just finished the last blog

Good shit! Well argued and thorough

Not that this project needed further evidence that it was in good hands, but the way you addressed this recent hubub is proof enough of that

I'm one of the vanilla defenders but I'm pleased with the approach and look forward to how things will be implemented

Thanks again for the care and attention, olive

[flint portal]

Nothing to do with the rebakes but i think they should fire this Eld character from the last post, don't like him one bit

(I think that post was good)

[fickle pecan]

Post good :)

[heady iris]

i'm happy to see where this game is going
all decisions taken so far are all workarounds i would've taken as well to make a videogame actually possible
the flight, the bracing and so on
in my opinion, this game is still pretty faithful to the tabletop as much as it can be and being able to see my builds take life in it and work so well it's just fun for my entire day
keep it up<3
i want to find another bug like the endless i shoot with my hearth xD

[alpine sorrel]

Reading your bug reports and taking little breaks from writing to fix em have been such welcome breaks this week. ty for your excellent hunting

I would have never thought to test a meltdown while intangible

[boreal dust]

Just read the update, seems well written and thought out, thanks for that clarification and it makes complete sense

[slow helm]

honestly i'm more here to write cool campaigns and maps so the rebake swap doesn't actually affect me that much

[sand goblet]

would it be accurate to say that you're now looking beyond the rebakes to other stuff as well? I'm curious as to what sort of things you're specifically looking at using from the other homebrew you mentioned

especially since you said you wont be redoing structure/stress, or grunts, which I would have expected if this was the direction you were going

[slow helm]

i am opinionated about the implementation of homebrew as native to the interpretation of the game, but i am also not the game developer and my 'faith in the project' or w/e won't be shaken by doing so; game design decisions are made by game designers to make the game more fun, and while i am myself generally someone who leans more towards maintaining mechanical parity with core even in my own homebrew, this is ultimately not megatek, as mentioned

[alpine sorrel]

Enhanced Combat's implementation of escort/extraction objectives as "payloads", as mentioned, is the only specific potential pull I have in mind.

Possibly bonus objectives too but only if we can get them mostly for free with the existing trigger system.

Dia's campaign includes bonus things to do and I don't think she even knows about EC.

LitD I haven't had a chance to really get into, but it was recommended to me via dms. At first blush it gets further from core than I'm comfortable with but there might be pickups in cases where the rebake version doesn't work for us.

I like how it does grunts a lot as a way to get more bodies on the field without blowing out the action econ, but also too big a change for LT's purposes

I've never liked how dangerous terrain works but it's not egregious and I haven't seen anything substantially better so maybe that'll just stay the way it is

Overall I want the freedom to pick up easy and low impact design wins. I regret the amount of time I spent handcrafting code to allow the priest's investiture to share its system score for saves. If there's more corners I can cut I don't want to be as much of a purist as I've been about it.

[flint portal]

I think a change to how objectives work would probably make sense (the ones that move)

We don't personally use those at my own table but I know its pretty common of people to allow objectives to be moved with standard move and not just if you start your turn adjacent to them

Main thing i'd caution against with this stuff is that in thoery some people allow those to moved with any movement that's not flight or teleport but that can end up trivializing some sitreps

[stable smelt]

to a degree the core 'only start of turn standard movement' makes more sense for a game like lancer tactics where you control all the Guys at once and don't have to like get four people on board with 'okay, move here so you can move the payload two rounds from now...'

I still think it sucks as a thing though

[alpine sorrel]

The biggest complication here that I see is the fact we don't really have a "standard move" 😬 just a pool of movement points.

So there'll be some adaptation design we'll have to do either way

My first thought would be to limit it to moving on your turn a number of total spaces up to your speed.

[frigid shale]

Question: what do you currently do if someone activates boost, but then becomes slowed?

[burnt frigate]

To add some clarification for those not familiar with the rebake: rebake grunts are entirely brand new bespoke units, not simply a modification of the existing template, so using them would be the equivalent of adding five entirely new units to the game

[frigid shale]

Do they keep the extra movement? Or lose it?

[alpine sorrel]

When they boost, they get movement points added to their pool for the turn regardless of if they get slowed later.

[flint portal]

That makes sense, there's another "fix" which is really just mostly interpolating from the rulebook cause it doesn't say anything about it, but it involves players always deciding where to deploy the objective in escorts, which generally helps

[alpine sorrel]

They also lose their entire current pool when engaged

[frigid shale]

Okay, was thinking if Slowed might’ve been useful at all for objectives but it sounds like it could be shored up

[burnt frigate]

The core rebake NPCs are more or less "the same units," just with some tweaks and adjustments, a rebake Hive is not really fundamentally a different experience, it's a guy who puts razor swarms down and hits you with forced movement etc, a sniper is still the long range unit that can auto-structure you, and so on

Rebake grunts meanwhile are entirely brand new units never before seen, so the decision not to add them to lancer tactics makes sense from a perspective of not wanting to add what amounts to unseen enemy units into the roster

[alpine sorrel]

Exactly

[alpine sorrel]

Maybe we could do it with an explicit "situational action" (what we're calling the buttons above the action bar that pop up for doing things like releasing grapples) movement ability where you explicitly pick where you want to go and where to put the payload as a single action.

And can keep using it until you hit the total movement limit for that turn

Means you maybe couldn't fly while moving it tho

[frigid shale]

I kinda think that’s ok, same with teleports?

[alpine sorrel]

How do objectives work with a CP-active MC?

[frigid shale]

Teleports with their standard move iirc

And apparently it has exactly the interaction you expect with Sunzi

[alpine sorrel]

I'd expect it to not come along with sunzi slip, is that right?

[frigid shale]

No, my meaning is “MC teleports with CP, teleporting adjacent to Sunzi with objective in tow”

[alpine sorrel]

OH

Wow

[frigid shale]

Because yes, it wouldn’t move with Slip

[alpine sorrel]

That's devious

[frigid shale]

But yeah I’ve written a blog article on escort objectives and lift/drag rules

So I’ve thought about this stuff a bit haha

[alpine sorrel]

👀👀 would love to read that

[frigid shale]

https://trainlightning.com/putting-the-object-back-into-objective/

It’s houserule territory, fair warning

[cinder island]

I fear the day my players figure out how to use the Sunzi

especially the one who figured out how to (goodnaturedly) cheese the hell out of knockback in a Caliban with a Zheng fist mounted on it in our meme build game

i allowed them to solve an escort mission once where the Barb was carrying the objective and the Caliban was walking behind it hammering its butt and upper legs to abuse Knockback for extra movement. I would not want to know what they would accomplish with a broken Sunzi or Black Witch build

[stable smelt]

I do have one note;

Finally, if something involuntarily moves the winch-user more than 5 spaces away from the object, the drag (and cable) breaks as normal.
cable winch does not break; this would be an additional line of rules text(and maybe not a necessary one, since you can't be pushed if it'd take you further away than 5)

[frigid shale]

Yeah that was a goof on my part in an attempt to (needlessly) cover my ass

[stable smelt]

anyway yeah that looks like a very workable set of rules

[tepid cipher]

Thank you for your wonderful work olive

[alpine sorrel]

If you thought that this entire article is secretly an excuse to let Lancaster’s Cable Winch drag Objectives, you’d be right
🫡 Doing the lord's work

[cinder island]

That would seem to make intuitive sense as long as the Objective is not affixed in place and of a reasonable size

I can't think of a common case where that wouldn't occur

[worn tiger]

i mean if the escort objective is affixed in place then we've got a bigger problem than not being able to use lift/drag with it /lh

[stable smelt]

extremely comedic fomorian battle taxi lancaster plus size four objective specifically to prevent cable winch,

[frigid shale]

I’ve refined this all a bit more in Prototype Pattern Groups. Notable differences are

1. Protocol OR Quick action to pick up an objective
2. Quick action to force a contested check to break contested holding

I don’t know if any of this is useful

But ultimately I think “action to grab the thing” is a good idea, at bare minimum

[alpine sorrel]

It is! Thanks for sharing, I'd forgotten that PPG had rules for this.

[cinder island]

This will definitely be useful the next time I run an Escort (or my current GM does), because we had these exact questions

[alpine sorrel]

*comes back next sitrep with synthetic muscle netting*

[tepid temple]

Winch Cable System is my personal bugbear of a system

It feels like an atavism of older Lancer editions

[cinder island]

huh, are there rules for an obnoxious Objective during an escort? like, one that causes problems or tries to get away from you?

[frigid shale]

Not as written iirc

Dunno about published modules though

[cinder island]

https://tenor.com/view/untitled-goose-game-honk-goose-video-game-gif-16337290

that emoji gave me a terrible idea for the quest of a future module

someone is loose and you need to find it and safely deliver it to Animal Control before it makes Hab Block Unity/the spaceship/the entire IPSN mining venture uninhabitable

[frigid shale]

Chaos table included

[dim locust]

made a map, wanna see what people think (it has some stuff set up for a custom survival too, but no round limit so survive as long as you can)

[worn tiger]

pigsriot's mentioned a "catch the greased-up pig sitrep" a couple times in gm chat, though I don't think there're any more formalized rules than this:

[dim locust]

sounds like some sci-fi sports game

[cinder island]

That could be. Maybe every round the Goose (a HORUS NHP in a scuttling casket) inflicts a condition of some kind, but if the player holding it is attacked in melee the Goose will vent its rage (in the form of a debuff) on that character instead.

or maybe it will willingly walk behind you, being a Goose, but will attempt to steal your equipment/pull other things from your hands that are required to advance the mission, like keys and items

however, its tendencies can be used to interact with Pilot-sized shiny things like screens and buttons that ordinarily couldn't be used without Manipulators

anyway, I'm definitely gonna be using LT to demo ideas for my games, so maybe this will end up as a Goose Map someday

[magic cave]

the one comment we have on this post is just that "There's a reason no homebrew supplements in the community use these;" (referring to scaling multiattacks) seems like a bit of a broad unverified statistic,
but we get what you mean and it's not like, a big deal in the grand scheme of the post (and for what it's worth we agree with the approach presented)

[burnt frigate]

Suldan does have one (the Valkyrie) but contextually Suldan is also functionally as old as Lancer itself is (work began on various pieces as early as the lancer 1.3 draft)

I would almost certainly go back and revise that now, I simply haven't done so lately because Suldan feedback has more or less stopped coming in and I've also been busy with other projects

A lot of the rebake stuff is a culmination of many years of turning various bits of lancer NPC design around in my head until I finally went "wait a minute, I don't actually like this part"

[heady iris]

it's probaly me who can't make it work
but when i open the map on instant action with map rules it just skips 2 rounds and then automatic defeat
and if i open it in the combat editor to place my lancers manually nothing happens after 3 rounds

[elfin peak]

Current re-bake stauts seems like a good compromise? changes to NPCs themselves but maintains the original underlying rules.

[heady iris]

i'm trying out drones builds
and gave my goblin 6 points in engeneering to bring more
but all turrets charges run out just after i put down the third

[heady iris]

i usually report bugs, but i had to share this great move and give my compliments to olive's coding
my vlad was in a very bad spot but that exposed singularity+lightning really saved the day

[magic cave]

yeah that's a good example, but even outside of that, there's like
a megaton of homebrew out there, there's probably been multiattackers somewhere

[alpine sorrel]

Yeah I probably shoulda been less absolute about how I phrased that

I do wonder what the actual data on that is

[sand goblet]

I expect it's not useful to speculate as to what is or is not common in homebrew. Pilot NET is far from representative in terms of how people actually play Lancer, much less what kind of homebrew they use in practice.

Any judgement based on "what seems to be common on pilot net" or "what content gets added to comp/con" or similar criteria for what is or is not common is naturally going to fall foul of sampling bias. Even creating an NPC or a houserule in the first place is not a neutral act of game design, and is more likely to come from a place where the designer perceives a gap or inadequacy, rather than someone who's content with the rules as they are.

[dim locust]

In order to make the map usable for everyone I removed the npc and lancer spawns in the script(you will have to set characters in the lancers/players and set a bad guy/npc group) be sure the scripts connect to them in terms of reinforcements and it should be good to go

[dim locust]

@heady iris may I dm?

[heady iris]

Sure thing

[alpine sorrel]

Nice use of the trigger system! I don't think many people have ventured far into it to make something functional.
I tried loading it up and immediately found a few engine bugs on my end:

• the max map size is 59, not 60 (since it's zero-indexed), so it crashed for me on load (I've added the correct numbers in the UI & added validations)
• and "use map settings" via instant action does not in fact use the map settings. It incorrectly wipes out the triggers you've set up, which is why nothing happens if you enter it from there.
  I'll try to have these fixed in the next version. Thanks for stress testing this!

[loud dove]

Hey folks, sorry to ask, where do I look to find the current build? >.>

[crimson merlin]

https://lancer-tactics.backerkit.com/backer/digital_rewards

[loud dove]

Thank you!

[dim locust]

The itch.io download also shows the most recent versions(for those in my shoes)

[loud dove]

It just took me a sec to get there, thanks for the guidance everyone!

[dim locust]

i always make big maps, just need a way for the games to take longer(the current game modes don't give alot of time) also I noticed a glitch if I try to make a taller map the game freezes for abit and then everything becomes clear(except water)

[alpine sorrel]

What do you mean by a taller map? In which dimension?

[dim locust]

it would be 60x60 and I try to make a river map I fill layer 1 with mud(at about layer 3 things freeze)

I don't fill every layer fully but most of the map

[alpine sorrel]

I'd say try bumping it down to 59x59; your build has some problems with a 60x60 map.

[dim locust]

ok

I will test that now real fast and get back to you

unfortunately attempting to fill the intended space on layer three still causes the same bug/glitch even on 59x59

[alpine sorrel]

great I'll add it to the buglist, thanks for testing

[dim locust]

before you do,may I share screen it to you so you can see what exactly happens?

im in the horus vc

[alpine sorrel]

oh sure!

[tidal tulip]

Will tactics implement jumps? There's this silly thing where in the tabletop you can vertically jump to grapple flying enemies if they're close enough xD

[alpine sorrel]

I'm planning on it so you can cross gaps (like a half-speed jumpjet), but the whole "do something mid-jump" thing is not something I think we can support.

[heady iris]

hhmmm something is weird, where is that last 1 heat coming from? torch should give just 2 heat

[worn tiger]

torch has overkill

[icy creek]

torch is overkill

damn too slow

[worn tiger]

gottem

[heady iris]

totally forgott

i was going crazy over this one for a minute thanks xD

[vast pike]

A question inspired by this: will a gm be able to edit values on the fly to account for actions like this?
For example, a player wants to shoot something mid-jump but cannot do so within the bounds of the game, so they simply perform all the roles and actions outside the game and the result is applied accordingly?

[icy creek]

lancer tactics is not a VTT

there is no GM and there is no multiplayer

[alpine sorrel]

I should put this at the top of the itch page to set expectations because it's a common topic/question

[tepid temple]

Specifying that your GM-in-a-can is not legally a GM, and is pasteurized process GM product

[slow helm]

there is something uniquely dopamine-inducing seeing my maps being used in the screenshots people send

[crimson merlin]

They're good. Enjoy your dopamine! XD

[teal sundial]

in the final release will it be possible to put together multi-map missions?

[heady iris]

i just love them they have so much personality in them

knowing there's always likely a tree somewhere where i can get soft cover was also very useful

[heady iris]

this bombard just spawned in and i can't eject power cores on him.
i did eject on another bombard previously, did that effect carry over to the new unit somehow?

[alpine sorrel]

oh probably! I bet I know the sequence of events:

1. the game looks at the list of reinforcements and deploys bombard A
2. you eject power cores bombard A, storing its ID as one you can't target again
3. you kill bombard A
4. the game gets to the end of the original list of reinforcements but the scenario needs more so it begins looping and tries to spawn the bombard again
5. before the game spawns a unit, it makes sure that nobody else already has its ID. If bombard A was still alive, the new bombard B would be assigned a new ID. but since bombard A is dead, it has no problem spawning bombard B with the same ID
6. eject power cores doesn't know bombard A from bombard B, so thinks its already been used on it

noted in the buglog

[heady iris]

https://youtube.com/shorts/kc4xx93venE?si=aurtzukr0FfJNbG5

[dim locust]

@alpine sorrel something down the line a friend whom is also making maps has requested (angled rails that can go on slopes)

[pale garnet]

So, I've been playing around and trying to get together a test campaign. The tools are quite easy to use for individual combats, so I'm quite excited to see more of the tools come out.

[heady iris]

can't wait to try out campaigns too

[alpine sorrel]

We decided to disable the module editor for these releases since it's still enough of a wip that we'd very likely have to invalidate anything anyone makes in it in short order... but soon ™️!

[pale garnet]

I've got a passion for writing Lancer fiction- I even have a fic in the works. I can't wait to start making a module.

[teal sundial]

would anyone be interested in collaborating on a module once the editor is up and running? just a thought

[heady iris]

hi
i'm gere testing crazy things again xD

that is indeed a flying barbarossa that is grabbling a berserker.
i'm not even sure what should happen here
i think it'd be cool if you can bring enemies up with you when you grabble them
but i'm mostly here to note that ofc in this case you can't really attack it with threat one weapons because you're in the air

should the grapple end when you start flying? or bring your enemy with you? thought these are things to bring up and consider over them

rules in the game do have flight carrying limitations.
with the exception for zero-G environments, normally you can't carry characters or objects with a combined size above 1/2

there's probably a game design choice to be made here

[heady iris]

a mirage teleported the berserker away from my grabble
i'm not much knowledgeable with npc systems, but i know that smaller characters grappled count as immobilized and therefore can't teleport.
is this a bug then?

[alpine sorrel]

Bonkers. Thank u for your testing service
I think I'll just break grapples when you start flying if it would bring you out of adjacency... I really don't want to handle trying to sync up flying statuses across grapples.

But like if you are flying you should be able to grapple people on the edges of cliffs and then pull them backwards into open air, still...

[alpine sorrel]

For this one, the teleport system is involuntary movement (like knockback) so is fair play as a way to escape grapples

[heady iris]

👍 🧡

[heady iris]

@alpine sorrel do you think it would be possible to buff the portable bunker a bit?
i think it works perfectly in itself but i find really hard using it in almost all the maps since it requires a flat 4x4 free space to be deployed and usually there's always some form of soft cover like trees that prevent you from placing it down.
on top of that, bombards can destroy the ground and so that often destroys any flat surfaces where it can be created
also since bombard attacks can hit the ground under a bunker as well, sometimes it creates holes where my mechs fall into and they count as being out of the bunker

because of these limitation even if i bring the bunker with me it never ends up being used, do you think we can do something to make it a little more flexible?

i was testing my deathhead when i stumbled on a chain of reactor stress that honestly i have no idea how it could've happened

[teal flame]

from firing the DMR?

[heady iris]

apparently

it got some overkill proks but i don't think they could have caused its reactor to be vaporized multiple times like that

it has 10 heatcap after all

[heady iris]

speaking about death's head
i found that after you kill the marked mech targetted by your core full action, Deathhead remains immobilized (wich seems odd to me, but apparently it's right) however the protocol to stop focusing does not appear anymore, forcing you to target another character and waiting next turn to free yourself

[teal sundial]

would it be feasible to add the ability to change the colour of the 'fog' beyond the edges of the map?

[flint portal]

if I had to guess, this seems like a result of aoes actually creating dents in the floor moreso than space being hard to come back

The other thing is that I think right now trees seem to be objects/terrain?

Can't speak for others but generally I tend to rule soft cover stuff like trees more like zones

as in, you can go through it and deploy stuff in it

[alpine sorrel]

This is on our list, though a low priority — I would like the color of the terrain on the edges of the map to bleed out automatically, but manually setting the color should be an option too. Carpenter doesn't like the pattern at all, so it's also possible that it'll go through a fundamental redesign as well.

[alpine sorrel]

When stuff like this happens, do you think you could pull out/preserve the autosave.json save game file? It automatically saves at the start of each of your turns, so if something funky like this happens mid-turn we should have an easy way to try and repro the situation.

I forget if I've sent you the instructions for grabbing it before, but you can go to the game's settings -> user data -> click the button to open up your file explorer, then it should be in the saves folder.

You could pull out the file to desktop or rename it

[heady iris]

do i just close the game and look for this file then?

[alpine sorrel]

I'll put a short video together, please hold...

[heady iris]

found it no worries

[alpine sorrel]

ah great

[heady iris]

i'll remember to make a copy of it every time something strange happens

[alpine sorrel]

👍 🙏

here's the video for reference if anyone else needs the steps

[heady iris]

ay

[alpine sorrel]

ha, found another bug related to this: it never checks whether the unit you're attacking is the unit you marked, so you actually start getting mark for death bonus damage against ALL distant units you crit against

[lethal leaf]

Leave it in. Death's Head needs the help. :P

[alpine sorrel]

my girlfriend took pity on my lack of blender skills and made me some more ramp shapes

the UVs and textures on them are going to be a little funky until we do a real pass on them but it's better than nothing

[tepid temple]

squints Is that heart shaped?

[crimson merlin]

Terrain loves providing you with cover

[pale garnet]

Nice work! I am excited to see the space tileset and rules.

[alpine sorrel]

Yeah me too, though that's post-kickstarter scope stuff. Same with indoor maps — both pretty essential but out of reach with our current resources and timeline.

[tired aurora]

Indoor map could just be a map, but the "outofcombat area" replaced with an inverted normal backface culled box no?

Space would just be replacing the bottom terrain and the background with a starry skybox

Though the assets required for them would be more troublesome. "Spaceship tile block" and "asteroid tile block" and the like

[latent sandal]

oh. no overpowered clabre and hardpoints?

on the same weapon and all

[teal sundial]

is there a way to make it look like a line of dialogue is coming from multiple characters at once?

[alpine sorrel]

Something close — you can have multiple characters speak at the same time, so you could put the same text in both word bubbles. There's a toggle button with word bubbles on each line: click it on all the following lines you want to play at the same time.

make sure they're both already in the conversation, by picking them as starting characters, having them talk before this line, or entering them via stage directions.

[teal sundial]

is there a way to erase blocks in the editor?

[dim locust]

Right click

You have to be on the "object's" placer to erase the type of item

[mystic cave]

I love this game, Olive has done amazing work.

[alpine sorrel]

thank u for saying that, it helps keep me motivated a lot

[heady iris]

[alpine sorrel]

I know this one is a bit old but I'm not able to repro this — it looks like in your screenshot the Deepwell Heat Sink didn't trigger for that toku. It should show up in the log after turn starts. Can you confirm that it's triggering for you on that mech build otherwise?

[alpine sorrel]

Annihilator only does the secondary attack on hit — from these logs it looks like the initial attack on the witch with it missed?

[heady iris]

I tested further and it always worked, not sure what caused it but after that time it never gave me any other issues

I'll report with the save file if i stumble on anything 👍

[heady iris]

Oh i see! You're right
the first attack on the witch missed and i thought it would attack the others around the same but that needs to be a hit first

Thanks for taking the time to look through them
I appreciate your work🧡

[heady iris]

@alpine sorrel did you find out why limited system charges suddenly go missing on drones?

[alpine sorrel]

I did not, I tried replicating a bit and couldn't do it but haven't had the chance to be thorough

If you have solid repro steps I'd love to hear em

I have seen some occasional problems with full repairs not happening before you launch instant action (I think) which could be related but can't find that consistently either.

[heady iris]

this one felt weird.
i went to grapple the bombard and missed. then the game gave me a secondary grapple attack chance on the berserker, as if executioner triggered for a grapple. after clicking on the berserker tho it didn't attempt to grab him

[heady iris]

here's my false idol not spawning after i used an eject cores on somebody and then tried to spawn it 2 times with an overcharge as well but to no effect xD
sorry if it's a bit far back in the script, it was last player turn in the round

[heady iris]

sure thing. i have a simple goblin with max engineering, this should let me put down 6 turret drones

1 round: i put down two turrets with an overcharge, 4/6 charges
during the round one turret fires once
2round the charges are for some reasons 3/6. i then put down 2 more turrets

[heady iris]

not sure of this one. sometimes tho, after i win or lose a fight in instant action, i have to reset the lancer squad because it saves if someone died or used its core power. otherwise i spawn in with less resources if i click Launch again

[alpine sorrel]

🙏 amazing, I'll take a look at all these

[lethal leaf]

Executioner 3 does trigger on grapples. It's any melee attack.

So it not actually working is the bug.

[heady iris]

damn right xD
didn't think it would apply to grapples too

[stable smelt]

arguably, at least - Grapples don't have Threat.

not that it'd hurt to allow it tbh

[lethal leaf]

Check what happens when someone fields an entire team of Barbarossas and they don't all fit in the deployment zone.

[heady iris]

i wonder if we're gonna have size limits in certain maps

like a fight inside a spaceship where you can bring only size 1 or 1/2 mechs

[alpine sorrel]

Not planned... not sure where we'd enforce that. In the instant action setup screen?

[icy creek]

It would be neat to have a way to impose general restrictions. creators could just mark which mechs were/weren't allowed rather than having to build a filter for various qualities (size, manufacturer, role, etc)

would also be neat if creators could have either an enforced or 'recommended' squad- I suspect you could get some interesting Puzzle Map content as a result

[alpine sorrel]

For campaign modules the creator will be able to set up what we're calling "origin characters" — stealing from BG3 where you can use premade guys. They can be made to be mandatory or optional on a PC slot-by-slot basis

So using that you could pretty easily set up puzzle maps... it'd be cool if they could be like chess puzzles but there's enough RNG in lancer that it'd have to be a bit more loose than chess

[pale garnet]

That sounds cool. I get the sense you could get some cool stuff like conditions. I remember being on the forum requesting conversation trees as an option, but that concept can go further. Deus Ex-style consequences (Lethal/Non-Lethal, X defense target is destroyed or not, Y NPC gets an amount of kills) can be quite interesting down the line.
Though, that's just me being an ideas guy.

I have little idea of how much work the framework alone would be, and I've only poked around HTML and Kotlin and the like.

My ideas for using this system are to look at "simulating" a Lancer story in the system that I've been writing up for a bit of fun. Bosses and enemy Lancers and all.

[alpine sorrel]

Triggers can both read and write whatever state you'd like into a modules' memory, so the system is already in place for letting you do this on the framework side. At this point it's a matter of making it easy to use (not a trivial matter) & letting other systems like dialogue and clocks tie into that state.

That kind of condition-checking branching can really get out of hand so even if it works technically, how good your UI is for it is a bigger determiner of what's feasible to build

[pale garnet]

For sure. I've played with a lot of different UIs for branches. I would suggest a flowchart-looking one.

[alpine sorrel]

Ah! Just figured out what this is. Since the "fire turret" reaction is on the same piece of gear as the deploy action, whenever you fire the turret it uses up a charge 😅 this also explains why I sometimes saw the turret firing reaction stop working halfway through a match — it runs out of charges.

[heady iris]

It turned into Sasha

https://tenor.com/view/fricknmcnugget-tf2-heavy-weapons-guy-heavy-gif-22800647

[ocean cloak]

Any plans to add more frames at some point?

Like Gorgon or Lancaster

[alpine sorrel]

Yep, during the 100% content push:

[tepid cipher]

we've come so far....

(when lancer tactics originalyl was out, i supported. was an itch.io game and kinda got me into lancer proper)

(now i am out of secondary school, done with my second year of uni and on a placeemnt, time flies)

[alpine sorrel]

Something I say when talking with other indie devs: if each project takes 3-6 years, we probably only have like 4-8 "major" games in our whole careers. If you're working at that rate, you gotta be SO sure each one is worth it.

LT is my third one by that metric.

In other news, just added a tooltip for the trigger tool that describes when the pre/post activation timings run:

[tired aurora]

human life is so short 😢

[gaunt plume]

This is pretty much what scares me about wanting to work my way to getting into big projects. So many ideas and skills I want to learn and build off but not really enough time to dedicate to all or even most of them

[lethal leaf]

This is why we need to destroy RA and upload everyone, so they have time to make all the games they want.

[crimson merlin]

"What if I never complete the project? I'll save my time for some other project" completes 0 projects

[gaunt plume]

Less "what if I never complete it" and more "how can I learn all the skills I need to work towards a vision" in a way that doesn't eat up my life in the process. which is something that's hard to work through since it's both a mental and skillset roadblock. Im slowly working through it and having more ideas for things as I've learned

Makes it a little hard when you basically wanna be the FFXIV omni-crafter equivalent of creative disciplines

[rain cipher]

Cheat code: prioritise the skills you're most drawn to and get help for the rest. You do then need to add working and communicating well with others to your skill list, and you'd need to offer either money or some ownership/agency, but it's a huge capacity multiplier.

[gaunt plume]

Yeah that's what I'm currently in the midst of figuring out how to do. Focusing on what most interests me as it comes. Example: I've mostly given up on 2D art cuz the process frustrats me and I just don't think I'm built for it. But my gf really wants to learn 2D art. So I've been thinking about some projects we could work together on that uses the skills we each want to learn. Like a 2D/3D art blend or writing and story boarding

Tho this is starting to really be way off topic for this channel and I don't wanna get off track here any more than I have

[alpine sorrel]

On one hand, I'm happy that I've built out enough standard tools for LT to able to handle When you consume Lock On as part of an attack with a Nexus and perform a critical hit, your target becomes Shredded until the start of your next turn. without any custom code, but then I look at the tower of resources in the inspector that feat required and I wonder if I've made something much worse.

...wait, dammit, that says "until the start of your next turn." Nevermind. That's custom code oclock.

I'm trying to think if there's any other conditions in the game that fall off of a different unit at the start of your turn.

[stable smelt]

some of them fall off at the end of your turn!

minotaur in particular

exemplar's mark sort of

covering fire turns off but again not specifically a condition(though it causes one)

I think it's mostly the minotaur's metafold maze which is specifically 'condition on them until the end of your turn'

and the taraxacum's precision fix is also until the end of your next turn.

(but that's not a condition)

[tired aurora]

I think you just accidentally make a Digital Cardgame framework XD

Make every effects look more complex than a ygo card

[alpine sorrel]

Are there any other effects besides duelist II's feint that make it so you don't provoke reactions from a specific target? (not counting all the "this movement doesn't provoke rxns" effects)

Such a blanket target-specific immunity will require a pretty basal change to the rxn engine and I'm wondering if I'll be doing it for a niche sub-option of a talent.

[stable smelt]

I don't think so offhand

[icy creek]

I also cannot think of any

[stable smelt]

it probably wouldn't hurt for it to be a flat 'can't take reactions this turn', mechanically

because that it prevents them from reacting to your movement entirely until your next turn kind of comes up less than the immediate 'you can move and boost away' part

[alpine sorrel]

I like that a lot, actually! Thanks.

I'll try that

[stable smelt]

(and, since it's a free action thing you can only do after the attack, this doesn't mean you can go 'okay I hit you, feint, you can't Hunker Down my attack now', at least during one action)

(slight change if you have multiple attack actions, I suppose. but also one that's a little more interesting maybe?)

[alpine sorrel]

Still learning ways that I've been playing Lancer wrong, five years in. 🙏 🙏

[elfin meteor]

[crimson merlin]

Wow. No one in my group knew that one! 😮

[ashen kindle]

I remember learning this one early because I thought it just alternated which team acts first in a round

[flint portal]

Oh yeah

Happens the most often when players manage to clear the board early

[kind fern]

Or extractions where everyone is held in reserve

[ashen kindle]

My player party of 5 are filthy and have abused it so hard, killing like 3-4 enemies in a turn and calculating the amber phantom so despite this, the players went first next turn vs 3 remaining enemy activations

[burnt frigate]

working as intended

[alpine sorrel]

I remember being confused about hearing that veteran Viper's Speed only worked on the first round — I thought it was designed to take away the persistent player advantage. That makes a lot more sense if the players don't have that advantage to begin with 😅

[pastel flax]

i ran this game wrong for a year

shittles

[alpine sorrel]

I found another one! Covering fire: Choose a character within line of sight and Range of one of your Heavy ranged weapons, and within 10 spaces: they are Impaired until the start of your next turn.

[heady dragon]

i mean i do so across 3 years sooo

my version of initiative is even more one-sided: players always get to elect someone to go first in a round

[alpine sorrel]

For centimane expose weakness' "drone attacks" thing... is that just the assassin drone? Do any other PC drones ever make attacks?

[deft rapids]

i think the ghast drone would also proc from it if it wasnt a nexus? maybe? but otherwise i don't think so

[alpine sorrel]

cool I'll probably make that a messy special case on the assassin drone's side of things then instead of making a system to check for drone attacks

[torpid orbit]

is there a story mode yet?

[alpine sorrel]

only the tutorial. we're still implementing the first campaign module.

[elfin peak]

iirc the Hecas effect is classed as a drone?

[alpine sorrel]

What's the Hecas from?

oh the balor alt right

hm looks like it's still not an attack roll tho

[burnt frigate]

In the case of the Ghast Nexus, the player mech is still considered to be making the attack, they simply get to trace range etc from the drone

that is to say, if the mech was jammed, the Ghast Nexus wouldn't be able to attack independently, meanwhile jamming the Ghast drone if it's deployed doesn't really do anything

[deft rapids]

ghast drone is such a specific weapon i have personally never seen used

it was the closest thing i could think of that might even potentially do the drone attack

[alpine sorrel]

Check this sequence of events out — LT is now a lot better at spending reactions at the right time when one action lets you pick another one:

• Goblin locks on to Archer
• Spotter III triggers, allows Deaths Head to make a Quick action
• DH puppet systems the archer, consuming the lock
• Archer moves, proccing Overwatch from the Everest but NOT the DH because it now spends its reaction at the right time (when the puppet system confirms).
• Everest overwatches.
• Archer continues movement.
• Goblin's Autopod triggers from the DH having consumed the lock.

This was hard because if the DH cancels its puppet systems, we don't want it to have spent its reaction yet... so parent actions need to wait for a very particular time before they spend. Is this making any sense.

[ashen kindle]

God damn

That whole thing, I was expecting a clusterfuck but it looks very intuitive and is easy to understand what's going on

👏

Easy to understand... Until you show it to someone new to Lancer lol, but that's not fault to Tactics

[alpine sorrel]

I'm getting close to finishing the talents, mechanically speaking. The remaining ones are all tricky:

• Bonded (when/how will we designate a bondmate?)
• Juggernaut (we don't yet have "knocked into" concept in the engine)
• Leader (will have to do some game design in adapting the open-ended nature)
• Siege Specialist (for jackhammer, what's terrain and what's the floor?)
• Skirmisher (we don't have a "skirmish" concept, so will have to adapt II)
• Technophile (we don't have an AI tag yet... plus this one is SO roleplay-heavy)

[burnt frigate]

question, re: technophile, do you have plans to actually incoporporate things like popping out of the mech to run around as a pilot or is that being cut for being too complex?

basically I'm asking because if it's the latter that gives you some freedom to either A). just nix the talent or B). turn it into something else

[alpine sorrel]

pilot combat is nixed

[burnt frigate]

gotcha

so in that case really, the ONLY meaningful thing technophile has in its tree is the rerolling checks/saves thing

[stable smelt]

and technically the 'it prevents cascades' thing but that's... probably also not a thing(?)

[alpine sorrel]

I would like to do cascades, using something akin to that nuanced cascading-NHP-goals table I saw floating around at some point... but it might not end up being in the KS version. It's a narratively complicated enough situation that I think having no gesture at NHPs is better than a half-baked one.

saying that, it sounds like Technophile will probably wait until that distant day, if we make it there at all

[teal flame]

that’s in legionnaire iirc

and tbh lancer tactics can handle taking control away from the player the way cascades do pretty well, what with having AI already set up for NPCs

you can just give players the chance to shut down their mech or let the NHP take their turn

[tepid temple]

People tend to forget this, but Dustgrave does have a Cascade roll table, on page 71

Legionnaire instead has "Here's guidelines on how to run each NHP's cascade"

[lethal leaf]

And you aren't going to have Black Thumb?

[alpine sorrel]

Only aiming for the core book currently

[magic cave]

while we find the Dustgrave table, kind of distasteful? in a certain sense? it honestly might be an easier way to implement Cascade than giving every NHP its own unique Cascade AI. (or maybe it wouldn't be, not sure)

[cold timber]

An easy fix for cascades in LT would be to just force a shutdown/reboot. And Technophile 3 meaning you can ignore the shutdown. (which leave a question for technophile 1+2 so I can understand maybe skipping the talent)

[tidal tulip]

technophile might just be a narrative tool for the most part, much like in the tabletop. then the reroll and the "ignore shutdown" mechanics are a nice plus

[burnt frigate]

yeah the issue is mechanically, if you don't have pilot dismounting, 2/3rd of technophile the talent basically doesn't exist

so if olive wanted to include it, she would essentially have to make up the rest of the Lancer Tactics version of the talent herself

[cold timber]

technophile 2 at least grants a 1/round skill check or save reroll, but yeah, technophile 1 does literally nothing.

[tidal tulip]

I imagine it like BG3's class-specific dialogue options

(i know a ton of rpgs do this)

[alpine sorrel]

New build is up btw: https://wick.itch.io/lancer-tactics/devlog/960548/keeping-the-fire-lit-more-talents

[elfin meteor]

I think dropping Technophile might be for the best

[teal flame]

being able to reroll a check is decent

but yeah at that point you’re basically having to rewrite it

skipping it is probably a good solution

[rain cipher]

Yeah it's good but not worth the baggage it'd come with, imo

[toxic badge]

If nhp cascades end up being a thing, there may be some builds that would prefer spending three talents points on cascade prevention instead of spending a core bonus 🤔

[flint portal]

I'd agree it doesn't seem worth the cost of having it if it doesn't have specific interactions in the narrative since Technophile is primarly a talent for narrative permissions when pilot in mech combat aren't a factor

[hard saffron]

I'm having issues with the new build. For some reason, no matter what action I chose the game just locks back onto the character and refuses to do anything?

Blinkspace Jump is the weirdest with this. It rolls, I choose a space, but don't teleport and am refunded the action cost?

Same for movement and shooting. Reloading is the only way to fix this, but it only works for a turn

New discovery. The game crashes when loading a save after moving. No other action can be taken, and if taken before moving, it rules that out as option.

[pure lynx]

my first-pass answer for Siege Spec "what's terrain" is "does this tile offer hard cover to an adjacent space"

you may nibble the edges of the groundbrownie but not scoop out the middle with a spoon

[alpine sorrel]

oh this is concerning. Thanks for letting me know

[alpine sorrel]

I've found the issue with everything cancelling (my mistake making a "small" change right before building 😓 ) but I can't repro the crash. Would you be able to send me the your "groundhog day" save file? thanks again for the clear repro steps in the video, they help a LOT

[alpine sorrel]

Just pushed another new version, 0.2.10, that should fix the buggy action inputs.

[teal sundial]

does there not being pilot combat mean you won't be able to dismount at all or just that you won't be able to do combat when dismounted?

[hard saffron]

Both most likely

No pilot = No ability to dismount

[boreal dust]

Does that mean expanded compartment will be useless?or will that be given a different use case

[alpine sorrel]

No dismounts, and we'll probably skip adding exp. compartment until we have a narrative section that could possibly care about it.

The minotaur "no hurting my pilot" trait also won't really do anything... except give a very specific immunity to pirate coreworms, if/when we get to those.

[lethal leaf]

If you can't dismount, how does the pirate claw trait work?

[sand goblet]

I would assume that optional would just not exist

this does raise the question of how the game will handle stuff like meltdowns and self-destruct vs regular destruction, or whether it's just going to be assumed that the pilot ejects offscreen or something

[tepid temple]

Joke suggestion: beat Tom to implementing the Lancer 2E mechanic where pilots are just vaguely "on the field" whilst not being on the map itself

[alpine sorrel]

Oh, has he talked somewhere about doing that?

I'm not above borrowing from the future, I suspect we've already done that for flying if Icon is any indication.

[sand goblet]

he's not mentioned anything concrete about Lancer 2's mechanics, I think that's just a community suggestion

[alpine sorrel]

I see I see... yeah I would like to have a little eject animation for PC mechs when they go down.

[tepid temple]

Yeah, he mentioned it in a voice chat

[sand goblet]

TIL. Anyone write a transcript or a summary for that?

[tepid temple]

To my awareness there's nobody who records the various sporadic voice chats Tom has on his patreon and CHASM servers

[elfin meteor]

Do it like the Battletech game does. A little blue spot rises up above the mech, and the mech just falls over.

[alpine sorrel]

I was thinking this exactly! I looked for a gif of it but couldn't find one.

[burnt frigate]

Phantom Brigade also has ejection as well, it launches little cockpit capsules out of mechs

[alpine sorrel]

experimenting with the "move payload" mechanics:

it can only move with you spaces equal to your current speed, but it's possible to skirt that a little by picking it up on one side of you and putting it down on the other... I can't think of a good way to stop that. Maybe it's fine?

[subtle sandal]

feel like this is a good compromise if mirroring movement and keeping relative position is too much of a headache

[alpine sorrel]

I guess I could just use the grapple rules

I'm afraid of it being real awkward trying to get it around corners or accidentally pushing it off ledges

[viscid oriole]

is it possible to have a warning asking for confirmation pop uo when such a movement is made?

[mild jay]

Tbh I think how it looks in the gif is pretty similar to how it's often run when I do those kinds of missions, both as player and gm

re: placement of the payload after moving

[alpine sorrel]

hm, maybe. I already have a detector for some movements that'd break a grapple, but there's a lot of edge cases that it has a hard time predicting

[stable smelt]

imo it's fine, maybe even ideal.

it's easy to conceptualize and play with more than 'okay I have to carefully plan my movement so the payload never touches an enemy or wall'

[sand goblet]

I could see lots of confusion over engagement

For example, what happens when a size 2 PC picks up the objective and walks past size 1 enemies

the regular rules are pretty well defined in terms of how they should operate

[alpine sorrel]

oh heck that's a very good point

I was copying Enhanced Combat's rules... I'm surprised that they don't address that at all as far as I can see

[teal sundial]

can you make prompted object interactions free actions?

[teal sundial]

related can you change the movement limit for a human character

or alternatively have a trigger activate when something is selected at range

[alpine sorrel]

do you mean, possible for me olive or via the trigger system?

[teal sundial]

via the trigger system

also wasn't like- asking you specifically it was an open questikn

[alpine sorrel]

ah I see. No there's not a good way to set up custom interactions (yet; I'll be adding a kit that's a generic free "interact" for the first module), unit stats, or transient player input.

[alpine sorrel]

Today's massive mechanical pain that I'm chewing on: Monarch Seeking Payload gives an attack seeking, but only against one target. So you should, in the same action, be able to attack with sharangas against one locked-on target with seeking and a different un-locked target with just arcing. Hard to have a weapon change its weapon tags while you're mousing around picking targets, before you've even consumed those lock-ons.

[teal flame]

also something that came up in the old demo, can sharangas hit the same target twice?

[stable smelt]

I think seeking payload should give the whole attack Seeking(provided you can consume lockon), in the same way that the Tagetes now can consume lockon to extend its range by +5(even when that ends up including other characters in the area).

I'm not sure if that makes it any easier to code, though.

[alpine sorrel]

Huh, that might, actually.

[deft rapids]

choosing to do that preemptively also means you don't have to worry about per-target seeking on Pinakas

[alpine sorrel]

I ended up secretly giving ALL launcher weapons on monarchs seeking+irreducible (a new convenience weapon tag for "damage can't be reduced) but only activating/showing them during consumed-lock attacks ++ gave monarchs the ability to attack locked targets with launchers outside of their LOS separately from seeking.

I had to make consumption of locks with launchers mandatory for them, but could try to be fancy about detecting if it's appropriate if it ends up feeling weird.

[heady iris]

me proudly wiggling as i see half the bug of this patch were found by me

also new build!
need to find a way to be notified when a new one comes out
back to testing the new talents

[heady iris]

i'm stating to have a lot of pilots in my custom list
could we get in the future a way to categorize them into expandable groups?

[heady iris]

@alpine sorrel i'm looking for centimane but i can't find it in the talent menu
am i blind?

found that something weird happens when you add the prototype weapon and use a core power that grants you extra mounts

[elfin peak]

Just reading the patch notes, technophile is still useful for its second trait and in context with iconclast. Could maybe just not have any other mechanics for 1 / 3 but otherwise let them exist?

[mild jay]

Didn’t sound like they were planning on doing most non-crb stuff

[heady iris]

few things wrong here.

• i setted my melee prototype weapon with accurate and smart, yet the game gave me the AoE option
• was grappled with the enemy and when i tried to use the prototype weapon on him, my nelson kept walking into his space instead of attacking

[alpine sorrel]

I think you can set up itch to send you an email on "new devlogs and updates from projects I follow", not sure how to follow a specific project tho

[alpine sorrel]

lolol looks like I sure did somehow drop it from the correct category. thanks for catching.

I can't overstate how helpful these reports are

[heady iris]

[glad lotus]

Ace 1 triggered from the owner missing someone else

Oh, the Nelson was under Abjure. Might be relevant, maybe that's counting as an attack?

You're doing amazing work, Olive and team. The game looks and feels so slick, seriously impressive!

[alpine sorrel]

Is there anything that prevents you from ending your turn before you've taken all your actions besides SEKHMET?

[final onyx]

Maybe like, resolving a Jager Kunst 2? Although winner can choose not to move I think

[stable smelt]

I think the only thing that could technically count is first gate osiris, if I'm not forgetting anything(because your standard move is under someone else's control, they get to choose how to use it before you're allowed to go 'okay turn over')

and like things that force the use of movement, like the wallflower Fragment exotic.

[shrewd fulcrum]

I don't know if this has been talked about before but as there is re: no concept of Skirmish vs Barrage(if I understood well?) in the game, what are you thinking so far in how to tackle level 2 of the talent?

(Edited my post because I felt I was making a bunch of assumptions which felt a bit rude when reading again even though it wasn't meant to be)

Just been curious since when reading about the more difficult Talents to adapt, it felt like the conversation focused around Technophile at the time but I was really curious about Skirmisher considering what seemed like the technical limitations ^^;

[shrewd fulcrum]

I was curious if what was considered was entirely rewriting level of the talents or if some kind of attempt to emulate the Skirmish restrictions was considered perhaps using some kind of global variable specifically for these abilities? (Though I suspect the later is likely itself pretty difficult)

[alpine sorrel]

Here's a couple times it's come up before:
#1079952007915376711 message
#1079952007915376711 message
I don't think we have a conclusive answer. I'm currently leaning against the older ideas of elaborate UI flow changes for all attacks in order to re-add the idea of skirmish, and leaning towards the "it triggers when you make your first attack on a turn but if you take the movement you can't take more attacks normally" kinda crude but low-impact patch.

• being able to take the movement off of overwatches or overcharge attacks

[shrewd fulcrum]

nodnod

I was wondering if the later could have been possible with some kind of variable applied to these "on skirmish(but not barrage)" triggered abilities to prevent attacking a second time when they are called upon

Than you for the answer btw ❤️

[alpine sorrel]

yeah exactly. IIRC Skirmisher 2 is the only such ability in the CRB, which was surprising to me

[shrewd fulcrum]

Huh, I thought there were some mech traits that also had similar dependencies but now that think about it I can't recall which

[flint portal]

the thing is a lot of them are called stuff like Skirmisher

so that's why

lol

naming the nelson trait skirmisher and having it have the same effect as the skirmisher talent but not quite is like

devious work from Tom

(but the main difference besides the nelson moving 1 is that it also triggers every time)

[alpine sorrel]

wip sekhmet!

[stable smelt]

oh it's beautiful.

[ashen kindle]

Damn

So does it basically start using NPC ai?

[icy creek]

looks neat! sekhmet actually taking control is a fun change

[ashen kindle]

Sounds like a good way of doing it for a video gaem

[magic cave]

it seems to be controlling the same way Sekhmet does in Lancer itself (though no choice of weapon use it seems)

[icy creek]

are there any plans to do similar for other NHPs? i.e 'hand over control to a NHP" just causes the AI to take over for a turn, without sekhmet-style imperatives?

[crimson merlin]

I think the answer is no for that, and for cascades

[alpine sorrel]

Not quite; I rigged up a special SEKHMET flowchart that it follows since its priorities are different than the standard AI's. Also if it's unable to carry out all actions control has to revert to the player, and if they overcharge it has to revert back.

[alpine sorrel]

Ya I had it constantly interrupting the flow to ask for weapon choices but it ended up being a worse experience I think, plus there were some leaky edges like players being able to cancel aux follow-up attacks. It totally going off on its own feels more faithful to the intent.

[alpine sorrel]

Huh I hadn't thought of this. That's not a bad adaptation for how to "handing off control", actually. I'll keep it in mind.

For when we get around to more holistically handling the AI tag.

We'd have to decide whether/how we'd disable talents

[icy creek]

it could also be neat to interpret NHP control as, like, an "Ask the NHP" button

where the game displays what the AI would do in the current scenario but leaves it to the player to execute it

[magic cave]

we wouldn't necessarily say "faithful to the intent", frankly, but it does sound like better design for a video game

[lilac anchor]

Hi! Just want to say I am in love with lancer tactics, (I can test so man builds) and I wanted to ask how one would go about submitting a map to be added under the community tab?

[heady iris]

Doom guy smile

[heady iris]

@alpine sorrel
i think unstoppablefrom Duelist can grapple only the target you initially attacked instead of being able to grapple nearby other characters as well

in the pic i'm already grappled and i attacked the prone assault

correct me if i'm wrong

missed an attack on the hornet while flying and the Acrobatics triggered for me instead xD

found a minor bug where spotter gets triggered even if i don't scan anyone and cancel the scanner action

"scanner action" i'm a lizzybrain

[alpine sorrel]

Post it here! The combat json files are in your user data folder, which can be reached through the options menu.

[smoky glacier]

you got it; unstoppable only allows it on "your target"

[lilac anchor]

👍 will do!

[lilac anchor]

I humbly offer, a map

I have also been making... two... forts a two fort, if you will

[heady iris]

oooooh

that's gonna be good for testing

[lilac anchor]

I had to recenter the bridge like

17 times

but we ball

Trying to figure out if I should add anything else, like ways to cross the bridge on the edges

or just have 2 fort as is

[alpine sorrel]

I'm seeing that file be "quarry"

[lilac anchor]

Yep! Thats the one!

[alpine sorrel]

oh nice I was confused and thought it was supposed to be the forts one

[lilac anchor]

No sorry, I can send you 2 fort some time if you’d like!

[alpine sorrel]

All good! this looks fine!

[lilac anchor]

Groovy, glad it’s good!

[alpine sorrel]

thanks for the submission 🙂

I'll add it to the next build

[lilac anchor]

:D

[alpine sorrel]

one note, without objective A-D zones it won't be able to support the eventual recon/control sitreps.

if it's not meant to that's totally fine

[lilac anchor]

I made it with holdout and gauntlet in mind, but I can add those when I get the chance!

I was just confused on how those interact with gauntlet and holdout; would it ignore A-D or give like, 5 different places to have to hold on those game modes

Also I’m curious, what made you choose the specific licenses you did to add first, and not others? Were they just the easiest to code?

[alpine sorrel]

They'll be hidden if not used by the sitrep

[alpine sorrel]

Hardest to code, actually! To try and get the tent stakes down as wide as possible for the engine

Or what I tried to guess would be the hardest

Eg barb being size 3, goblin tech nonsense

Missed some things like the peggy dice crimes

The next batch that I've been working on have been the ostensibly easiest — Sherman guns and monarch launchers

[lilac anchor]

Oh my god the Pegasus, it’s crimes are unforgivable

[lilac anchor]

Ooooo! Sherman!!! And monarch! finally I can stack my all missile team (and another size 2 frame)

[alpine sorrel]

I also have fear for what the hydra is going to be like... I'll likely need to make much better drone tooling

[lilac anchor]

We playin Hydras in this sitrep, we callin each of our turns distinct geological eras with how long we take

Lanced? Wrong! You mean Bloons Tower Defense

God I could never play a Hydra

[glad lotus]

Hydra is what you play when you want to have an equal number of dudes to the GM

And yeah, I think you're going to have some UI fun with that one. 😄

[stable smelt]

tbh some of hydra's difficulty is just 'remembering all your effects' which is a problem that is blunted entirely by getting prompted for them every time they happen.

[lilac anchor]

Maybe limit the amount of drones you can have? Idk that doesn’t sound like the best idea

[smoky glacier]

what would that specifically address

[stable smelt]

also stuff like drone commander 3 being tricky to visualize and resolve without automation.

I don't expect hydra to cause notable issues since you're not holding up any other people when you play it in lancer tactics, also.

[lilac anchor]

oh i thought we were talkin about how hydras take up so much time my b

[lilac anchor]

heres the version with objectives A-C! I digured there wasnt really enough space for 4 control zones so I added just 3!

[teal sundial]

does anyone know of any resources to learn how to design good maps?

[hazy ferry]

It's a bit of a shame that expansion mechs won't be usable

But I understand

Anyways what if Bonded was, for the time, just exclusive to two campaign characters or something?

[lilac anchor]

Oh yeah we are getting campaigns aren’t we!

[cinder island]

ooooh actually you might be on to something there

like either a campaign reward for finishing a companion questline kinda thing or part of a specific sitrep like an arena fight

[hazy ferry]

Yea

[dim locust]

They could be an add-on or something. After all, compcon has a way to have their data. If Olive is up to it we may get them xD(probably be one or 2 books at a time)

If my memory serves me right.

[teal flame]

unfortunately

expansion frames would mean the lich

[hazy ferry]

Lich wouldn't be very bad tbf

Wouldn't be that different from the False Idol I'd think

And on the plus side it would also mean return of the Kobold

[icy creek]

I'd be interested to see how the lich's core power UI struggles are resolved, considering it triggers on "somebody does something to somebody else"

how do you let the player trigger that when they want without also prompting them literally any time something happens

but of course we may never witness such a thing

[lilac anchor]

Any ideas or plans for achievements? I’m a big fan of achievement hunting so it could be neat

[alpine sorrel]

I've been lurking this thread for a long time and collecting ones that are plausible/I think would make for good hunting.

A lot from that are "some improbable dice thing happened" which I think aren't great because they're totally rng dependent

but I have 74 possible ones in a trello card for someday lol

eg

or

[lilac anchor]

Huh, neat!

"Teleports behind you, nothin personel kid": Teleport to be adjecent with an enemy

I know some characters have the power to teleport, like one of the Manticore's LLs

[quiet meteor]

You could also do one for doing a teleport kidnap

Grapple a character and teleport with them

Oh, how about one for Sekhmet structuring an ally mech?

[lilac anchor]

Pincushion: Throw a Warpike at the same guy, three times

The Final, most Righteous Act: Kill three people with a castigation

[alpine sorrel]

Oh no the achievement thread is escaping containment 😂

[lilac anchor]

I have many lancer achievement ideas you must understand

lol

how much I gotta pay to get these in /j

[boreal dust]

Achievements would be nice if possible, probably a sprinkles on the cupcake kinda deal but still nice

[mild jay]

I had to really think for a second on how feasible GWaFA is to achieve

[graceful hollow]

guilty gear references spotted 👀

olive 🌺 ↩️

[Reply to:](#1079952007915376711 message) or 📎

[stable smelt]

+19 HP before grit with core bonus +5, +12 from hull, +2 persos, so LL9. LL11 for a lich.

[ashen kindle]

How can an enemy be intangible with only CRB content?

Rebake spectre is the only way I assume?

[glad lotus]

Mourning Cloak's fade cloak is effectively intangible

IIRC Word of Tom is that fade cloak is actually intangible, it just predates the keyword.

[ashen kindle]

Yes but enemies can't get fade cloak

Fade cloak is the only CRB intangible but enemies can't get it outside or Calendula and the horror template (I think), neither of which are CRB. But the rebake specter gets an optional that allows it

[shrewd fulcrum]

Exotic template

[alpine sorrel]

that one just says "character", nothing about it being an enemy 🙂

[alpine sorrel]

Also, Hydra ended up not being as bad as I feared! Implementing OROCHI & the assassin drone took up most of today, but there weren't any fundamental issues. Just a lot of mechanics.

That brings the new frames since for this month's content sprint up to Blackbeard, Monarch, Hydra, Pegasus, Genghis, and Sherman.

Going to aim for metalmark and dusk wing next, I think... more than four frames per manufacturer. Over halfway there, frame-implementation wise.

I'm learning that the larger bottleneck will likely be getting icon + art assets for all of them.

We're gonna reuse as many ability fx as we can, but there's a lot of random ones that really want unique assets (e.g. all the hydra drones, eye of horus, javelin rockets going up and down, blackbeard grapple cables)

[heady iris]

[heady iris]

found an odd interaction between goblin core power and fade cloak

[stable smelt]

what should happen there is either 'the goblin pops off the death's head entirely'(losing the effect due to intangible breaking it) or 'the goblin also goes intangible'(not RAW or even RAI but more sensible)

[heady iris]

here's something weird as well
i'm grappled with this assault and i wanted to move towards the enemies while dragging the enemy with me and be close to the action
but for some reason, i couldn't move forward

also for some reason when you're grappled the space you can move is reduced as well
when you can actually move more than what shows you

[stable smelt]

I haven't kept up on some specifics - does Lancer Tactics let you use free actions when it's not your turn?

[heady iris]

i can't think of any case for free actions during other player's turn in the game
do you have a case in particular you want me to check?

[stable smelt]

no; one happened during your video, with the integrated weapon nexus firing

afaik, that shouldn't have happened

[heady iris]

oh that's a trigger with a reaction
it was the auto pod from goblin

[stable smelt]

after the autopod?

[heady iris]

that free action was the skirmisher ability of nelson
it resolved after the goblin attack

[heady iris]

ah yea i was getting there
in fact i'm not sure if the nexus should fire even if it is on the same mount as the auto pod

[stable smelt]

by RAW it wouldn't even if it was a main/aux - I just haven't been paying a ton of attention to lancer tactics so I don't know offhand how it handles various situations

[heady iris]

actually no, sorry
the nexus is in the integrated aux mount from the core power

but yeh, that free action comes into play when you shoot any other mount at any moment during the round
the game will ask you if you want to fire your integrated weapon any instance you fire a gun

[stable smelt]

it's why I asked this, because I wasn't sure if lancer tactics handled free actions differently; by the book they're only during your turn

[heady iris]

huh

wasn't aware about that

btw @alpine sorrel
while i was checking this out
i tried using panopticonm from spotter and the scan didn't trigger at the end of the turn even when i was still and didn't do anything else

[dense furnace]

Heyo, just got the game. Is there a place to download community maps? If not, is there any you all can suggest/pass around?

[heady iris]

all community maps i've seen have been uploaded in this thread and most of them have been already added to the game's map list

[alpine sorrel]

Ah good catch — I have integrated weapon set up as a no-spend "reaction" instead of a free action. I'll limit it to only triggering on your own turn.

[lilac anchor]

having something I think is an issue, where my nelson just, cannot move more then one space?

[alpine sorrel]

Hm fascinating. Can you send me the autosave file?

[lilac anchor]

yeah one sec, ill grab it

this should be it

[alpine sorrel]

Amazing ty

[lilac anchor]

👍

also I have another map to submit :)

oh and 2fort, if anyone wants it

[alpine sorrel]

This week is a bugfixing week so I'm just now getting around to fixing the melee prototype weapon bug, and lol I was so confused why the nelson could only move to spaces adjacent to the sentinel before I realized he'd been to-the-death'd. What a funny interaction.

[lilac anchor]

Oh it was to the death? Alright

[alpine sorrel]

I'm not sure how to best handle it when grappling... does the "you must move closer" rule just not apply, since they'll come with you? That's tricky because the pathfinder can't 100% predict where you can move that they'll be able to follow ahead of time.

[stable smelt]

To The Death isn't actually 'must move closer', it's 'you cannot move away', so you should be able to move to spaces that are either into them or at the same distance from them.

I don't think it lets you drag them backwards, RAW, but you could ignore that if it makes for a better experience?

[alpine sorrel]

cool, I think that's how it currently shakes out naturally.

[alpine sorrel]

enjoying how blackbeard can knockback someone and then Duelist III to grapple & pull itself towards them

[torpid crane]

we have caliban at home

[worldly violet]

FALLING BOULDER CABLE TOSS COMBO

[heady iris]

can't wait

[lilac anchor]

Every day, we get closer to Ra lancer tactics update

[teal sundial]

why is her hair (glow) red?

also if i use the pilot editor in the unit tab the changes to her appearence dont seem to stick

[shrewd fulcrum]

I could be wrong but I heard it sound like out-of-mech pilot was low priority and might even be nixed?

I could have misunderstood and confused with something else however

[alpine sorrel]

because humans on the battlemap are secretly mechs and we haven't changed the label for the third color channel, lol

[alpine sorrel]

Yeah it's low priority & only supported for things like cutscenes, so we haven't put a lot of polish into the editor for them

experimenting with persistent line effects between units to show things like "to the death"

[lilac anchor]

It looks so good!

Maybe have it only show up when you’re selecting that character? Wouldn’t want 5 to the deaths showing up all the time

[mild jay]

Depends on the effect work. Chimera Squad has a similar thing with one of the sectoid unit’s abilities, where it shows a line of psionic energy between him and any enemies he’s used it on. It’s not obtrusive but it’s easy to pick out when you want to look for it ime

[lilac anchor]

This is true, I haven’t played XCom in a while

[alpine sorrel]

not a bad idea — I don't think I'll do that proactively, but if we notice things start getting overly cluttered that'd be a good solution.

same line technology now enables grapple cable fx

[crimson merlin]

Rad af

[stable smelt]

oh I love that.

[crimson merlin]

Reminds me of the creature in Carrion

[alpine sorrel]

oh? not familiar with the reference

[crimson merlin]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/953490/CARRION/

[ashen kindle]

Personal thing, the camera jumping around in that looks a tad disorienting IMO... However that also does just look RAD AS HELL!

[crimson merlin]

That's a good point. I have two ideas:

1. Camera centers on everything that's affected by the action, and we live with some things maybe being too far away and being off screen
2. Do it like https://store.steampowered.com/app/1105670/The_Last_Spell/ where the camera focuses on a cluster of foes - resolves, then moves to new cluster

[teal flame]

are there any plans to allow for player-controllable NPCs?

[alpine sorrel]

Not any more than there currently is; you can toggle control of any unit in the map editor here. It's kinda untested territory though — there might be some broken text descriptions.

[teal flame]

oh nice

yeah that’s all i wanted really

[alpine sorrel]

adding some tweening to the targeting UI

[crimson merlin]

Tweening is so juicy

Past blast!

#1079952007915376711 message

[heady iris]

ooooh yesss
i'll enjoy blackbeard

[teal sundial]

what is 'change lighting' supposed to do? I'm not sure if it's not working or if I'm just not using it right

[alpine sorrel]

Looks like it's broken. It's suppose to put these "warning" banners in the conversation background. Logged.

[teal sundial]

messing around w/ the dialogue editor has been super fun so far! very expressive.

[alpine sorrel]

omg love

I just fixed that bug I saw at the end there (I think) where units without defined portraits show up as the narrator; they'll use an "unknown pilot" silhouette instead.

[lilac anchor]

augh, one day ill take the time to understand this conversation editor, it looks super cool

[alpine sorrel]

One day I'll make a guide too

[lilac anchor]

:)

[lilac anchor]

Are there any plans for more biomes? Like pine trees, snow, or jungle stuff for tiles?

[alpine sorrel]

Only the ones we're on the hook for from the KS. We'll see where we are after that.

[lilac anchor]

The KS?

[tepid temple]

Kickstarter

[lilac anchor]

Ah I see

[lilac anchor]

Just realized the map I submitted, Quarry, has some issues with size 2 characters, made a version updated to give them some more space to move!

(Olive if you see this and theres still time I ask you impliment this updated version of the map, but if its too late thats alright)

[alpine sorrel]

👍👍 just in time, I'm planning on making the next build this Monday

[torpid crane]

Any of the previewed WIP frames making it in, or still cooking?

[lilac anchor]

Thank god I turned my homework in right before the bell

Also yeah I know you’re working on stuff but what might we be getting at the next build?

[alpine sorrel]

here's the two most relevant sections of the changelog draft