Lancer Tactics

[lethal leaf]

In LT, I mean.

I know you can choose the order in regular Lancer.

[alpine sorrel]

Yep you can choose

I'll eventually add a little warning about there being a no bonus damage flag while attacking

[rain cipher]

So just double checking, does that mean I kill with my heart only works on the first attack from a mount? That seems a bit clunky, but I guess it's just a consequence of that bonus damage rule, which is necessary to stop per-attack bonuses doubling. Good thing it's a "may" to use!

[lethal leaf]

No, you can put the one that doesn't deal bonus damage before the one that does. Useful when your gunslinger die is at 2.

[alpine sorrel]

Ah, LT isn't smart enough for that. Like if you have an aux/aux mount you can attack with either one first but there's no way for it to know that you want to attack with the "extra" one first

[alpine sorrel]

Did a lighting overhaul to allow for sprites and terrain to be shaded. Discovered that toon-shading and sprite billboards go together like chocolate and peanut butter

[naive yacht]

Hello! Question, friend is looking to learn Godot and i vaguely remember some sort kind of link posted here way back that had to do with learning it. Does anyone remember what I'm referring to? I'd love to pass the link over to my buddy

[glad lotus]

No idea if it's the link that was posted here before, but I found this one to be really good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAh_Kx5Zh5Q

[naive yacht]

many thanks!

[alpine sorrel]

Eyyyy who wants to help us come up with some new loading screen tips? So far we've just has this one about Reliable hard-coded, but I'd like to get more & think it would be fun to community-source them (especially to help with gotchas that trip beginners up). You can add your ideas to this sheet here; I'll be sending it out in the next backer update as well: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iBTZ6gJUe-sKbJ6pBP7cVypwY85JIWz4j-MtEg357xY/edit?gid=0#gid=0

[mild jay]

First thing to come to mind is that locking on is a good thing to do with a spare action

[tidal tulip]

using checks and saves against invisible targets

armor being more effective against many smaller guns than one huge gun

smart weapons being good against agile targets with poor edef

[magic cave]

knockback being able to disrupt enemy positioning, cancelling adjacency effects, getting enemies off of objectives, etc. stuff like that

[glad lotus]

Many enemies have conditional resistances. Scan is a great way to learn them in advance!

[flint portal]

the first rule of Lancer Tactics is have fun and be yourself

Jokes aside, what i'd put there is probably something along the lines of "being bigger means you're always in control of grapples"

[mild jay]

Oh wait there’s a good one on the Harrison armory kickstarter sticker

Stress is a resource!

Similar to the health bar one

[glacial elm]

Struggling in combat? Try reducing your enemies' helth to zero, while keeping your own above that

[frigid shale]

Try spinning! Rotate the camera to get a new perspective on the action.

[alpine sorrel]

I could also use this to tell people about the "overhead" view, good thought

[worn tiger]

That's a good trick.

[tepid cipher]

Pick your targets! Removing one enemy is often better than merely damaging two!

[flint portal]

Remember, every mech has access to Fragment Signal

[worn tiger]

it comes free with your xbox!

[tepid cipher]

Sometimes a fight is not in your favour. Hit the bricks, you can leave! Let one of your better equipped teammates handle the problem

Love your reactor! Being exposed doubles incoming damage! Yeouch!

[flint portal]

You'd probably need to have that one reworded a bit since you control every unit in Lancer Tactics

[alpine sorrel]

They cannot, in fact, leave :p

[tepid cipher]

Remember every mech can ram, grapple or fragment signal!

Could be a fun way to phrase it

[tepid cipher]

My intent was
"Don't let the melee fella 1v1 the demolisher or the goblin be put in the Cataphract's backpack" but I get what you're going for

Sometimes a fight does not favour your current loadout. Hit the bricks! Consider disengaging and allowing a better equipped teammate to take the fight for you

[little jetty]

i have the oldest model of sagarmatha, it doesn't have fragsig

[quiet meteor]

Don't forget that Bolster exists and can really help out if an ally has a save the need to make coming up!

[tepid temple]

I wanna get "You can bolster against Predatory Logic" but I think the game would be given up the prompt being there in the first place

(and if it's not, well you can't)

[frigid shale]

you mean "you can brace against predatory logic"?

[tepid temple]

Listen, they both see the same amount of use-

[final mesa]

When Stabilizing, you can choose to clear conditions from adjacent Allied mechs. Use this and turn ordering to your advantage!

[ashen kindle]

"Overcharge is a powerful tool, remember it can be used. However save it for when it's needed"

[tired aurora]

How about some lore loading tip? Like for campaign and stuff?

[pastel flax]

"Although staunchly anti-pirate, IPS-N has been rumored to supply pirates with mechs for raiding"

"Harrison Armories have some ties to Second Committee Sympathetizers"

[frigid shale]

Going for the dubious lore I see

Since neither of those are really confirmed in existing lore

[sand goblet]

"Galbank is an apolitical institution"
good lord I hate Starfield with a burning passion

[rugged copper]

afaik the rumors of ipsn supporting pirates are in books, yeah?

[frigid shale]

Not even iirc

But that’s a topic for #lore-and-worldbuilding

[tepid temple]

They hate to see a girlbank winning

[sand goblet]

some genuine suggestions, if we're talking real basics here:

• "In many sitreps, you do not need to kill every enemy to win. Check your objectives!"
• "You lose all remaining movement when you become engaged with an enemy"
• "Impaired makes it more difficult for enemies to hit you. Slowed disables many enemy abilities. Fragment Signal applies both."
• "Ramming an enemy to knock it Prone makes it easier to hit and forces it to spend its movement standing up"
• "Brace is a good way to reduce damage, but costs you actions on your next turn"
• "Hiding is very powerful in the right circumstances, but is lost when you lose cover or make an attack"
• "If you're having trouble hitting enemies, try using Lock On"
• "You can survive one structure damage, but after the first you have a chance to be destroyed"
• "A Grappled enemy can't take reactions"
• "Overcharge is usually worth the heat cost, and sometimes even worth stressing your reactor"
• "Most enemies will become Exposed when overheated. This can make destroying tough enemies much easier."
• "Movement and positioning is key to victory! Use cover and line of sight to minimise the amount of fire you take."
• "Movement and positioning is key to victory! Forcing enemies out of cover and away from objectives can be very powerful."

[stoic bloom]

"There's no downside to overcharging! Source: your friendly Witch"

[lethal leaf]

• "Being Impaired doesn't hinder abilities that don't rely on attacks! Try throwing a grenade."

[tired aurora]

"Violence itself is a failure state, it denote that someone had fuckup, fortunately, you are trained in cleanup"

[tired aurora]

"The Dawnline Shore is the newest expanse of Harrison Armory and the Karrison Trade Baronies and the site of those two latest conflict with each others"

"When giants fight, it's the ants that suffer"

[final onyx]

"All things not saved will be lost"

[magic cave]

"Impaired can hinder an enemy's defenses! Try throwing a grenade."

[tired aurora]

"War, War has changed"

[obtuse delta]

"Does anyone actually read these?"

[rain cipher]

So is anyone actually adding these to the doc, or are the ones in here just for fun lol

Having a little tidbit or two about each mech could be fun. I added one like "The Harrison Armory Genghis has the highest Heatcap at a whopping 10". Doing something similar for each could be interesting

[glacial elm]

The Goblin is a [REDACTED] [REDACTED] that [REDACTED] [REDACTED] [REDACTED]

[toxic badge]

maybe some "extra basic basics" ones would be good like

• "Each reaction can only be used a certain number of times per round."
• "Each character can only take one reaction per turn (their turn or that of another character)."
• "There is no limit to how many reactions can be taken per round, only per turn."
• "Falling deals 3 AP Kinetic damage for each three spaces fallen."
• "Some characters can Teleport. However, this still counts as moving one space and so is affected by conditions like Immobilized and Slowed."
  (These are all more or less copy-pasted from the core rulebook and I've added them to the gdoc)

[ashen kindle]

"General Massive Systems mechs are known for their redundancy, robustness and their mass produced nature. Their parts can be found everywhere and are always reliable"

"IPS-N prefer a practical approach when it comes to their mechs, prioritising raw physical power in their sturdy frames"

"SSC mechs are a luxury, despite the companies primary role being in eugenics they also design sleek mechs, prioriting speed, agility and exclusivity"

"The decentralised group known as HORUS also produce mechs, bizarre in nature with unexplainable technologies, all good at fighting against and using complicated E-warfare suites"

"Thanks to the HA's think tank, Harrison Armories always have the best cutting edge technology when it comes to warfare. All their mechs have sturdy reactors capable of optimising their weaponry and their scientifically optimised paracausal technologies"

Probably could be reworded a bit better and have a better lore do-over

[ashen kindle]

"Do not be deceived, despite the Everest line mechs being the starting step of all pilots it is not any less powerful than any other frame. Many cocky pilots have met their end after underestimating a reputable Lancer in an everest"

"Do not be afraid to take damage, as long as you have the repair cap to spare and the damage isn't too extreme, most damage is superficial and can be easily patched up"

[tepid cipher]

add some silly ones too like
"Berserkers want hugs. But you don't to hug a berserker"

"A smart pilot will not cook bacon on the vents of their mech"

"Remember, a witch cannot hack you if you hack it in half with a GMS heavy melee."

[worldly violet]

"Be fast, be thick, or be dead"

[alpine sorrel]

Backer update :: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wickworks/lancer-tactics/posts/4325708

[pastel flax]

Now that first one might be, but i could swear the HA reps are tight with the union bureau of money

Who are the closest thing to seccies you got left

Ah dinger scrolldown'd

[final onyx]

Every time I see a lancer tactics update I can really see the tons of effort that has gone into the project, its crazy

[lethal leaf]

Custom Paint Job is no longer guaranteed to trigger.

D:

[stoic bloom]

just like real life....

never see it trigger once for 5 missions straight, then see it activate twice for a single battle on the same character

[mild jay]

I feel like I actually end up seeing it trigger a lot in games I run. It even went off the very first time I played with cpj equipped. Pretty sure I’m somehow stealing luck from other people

[alpine sorrel]

Same lol, it saved my toku so many times in wallflower and I think gave me a permanent perhaps unjustified fondness for it

I do think it can only be used once per full repair though right?

[little jetty]

once it activates, it becomes "destroyed"

[worldly violet]

literally never seen CPJ trigger and played a pretty decent amount of Lancer at this point

[little jetty]

(indestructible so technically not destroyed, and also can't be repaired)

[deft rapids]

i've seen CPJ proc maybe twice

but it definitely procced once...

on a core active balor :U

[final mesa]

That's probably the high you're chasing for the rest of your lancer career.

[deft rapids]

no the high i'm chasing is getting to use predatory logic on a displacer to stress two mechs at once with spread suffering

[tepid cipher]

Debating adding
"be gay, pilot mechs" to the loading screen tips

[latent sandal]

oh? what/s this?

lancer videogame?

[stoic bloom]

indeed

[latent sandal]

wahg

when come out

[stoic bloom]

soonish

for the beta

[latent sandal]

mm

[stoic bloom]

open

[latent sandal]

soon™️

neato!

[final mesa]

Late reply but this is evil.

[alpine sorrel]

almost have the tutorial re-implemented. i love them.

[little jetty]

love the fake scanline

[stuck falcon]

it's real to me dammit

[tepid temple]

Can't wait for someone to play LT on a CRT just to see how it looks

[alpine sorrel]

fake crt effects on a real crt television......

[latent sandal]

would that be CRT^2 or CRT * 2?

[final mesa]

That's totally tubular dude!

[latent sandal]

death

[alpine sorrel]

today's unexpected hitch: all player-deploy zones need to have at least 12 tiles of free space in case the player deploys with 4 barbarossas

which is actually SO much space

maybe I just add a thing where if there's not enough space it auto-finds the closest spot and puts it there for you

[fickle pecan]

36?

[ashen kindle]

Could you do it that a player needs to be partially within the DZ?

Like, in some of the official modules, deployment zones are like 1 tile or 2 tiles wide

In the official maps

[fickle pecan]

size 3 needs their center square in deployment type thing

[ashen kindle]

Hell, or just like, the edge tile

But that also works because it allows size 2's to fit

[alpine sorrel]

ah yes right, I meant 6x6, not 6+6

I think since I really can't guarantee what sorts of maps people will make and have them work, I'll have it search for the closest possible tiles and force those to be valid even if they're outside the deploy zone

looking forward to the all-barb speedrunner exploit that'll allow you to spawn in the objective CZ and instantly win

[little jetty]

the idea that 4 barbarossa team is somehow the fastest in a way is amusing to me

[mild jay]

With enough mass you can bend space and time

[tepid temple]

Yeah uhhhhh

[frigid shale]

If all players are Barbarossas, simply shrink all characters by a factor of 3 so they all fit on the map 😌 /joke

[tepid temple]

This is somehow worse in hexes

[mild jay]

Multiply map scale by average size of the party

[tepid temple]

squints

Huh, Dustgrave does pseudo-diegetic height markers

Which is neat, but I'm not sure the most useable

[little jetty]

one barbarossa allowed

[flint portal]

These also assume you can change it a bit if you do have a bunch of big mechs

I personally always assume you are fine if you have only one space in also

[tepid temple]

Checking SotW maps for funsies even though you can't deploy a Barb on them, and

I didn't know this could happen

[sand goblet]

windows just needs to move adjacent to the payload smh

[tepid temple]

Anyway, the above deployment zone wasn't the only one where a team of 4 Size 3's would be an issue, but it was the most egregious one

Double-checking OWS, I think this map poses a problem even you if permit only one space deployment?

Mhm, I think you can just barely squeeze in 4 if you use Tom's overhang ruling

[frigid shale]

Siegefault does good work, it’s unsurprising (but welcome)

[flint portal]

Yeah at that point you have to improvise

I didn't design these maps assuming everyone would take size 3 mechs

the same way I didn't really design them to account for people taking no ranged weapons or just ordnance weapons

[alpine sorrel]

it now looks for the closest(ish) valid space for the mech you're deploying

I'm surprised it chose that mountain before that open area to the NW but I guess it's just the first one it found

mimicking the ability that a human has to say "yeah that looks reasonable" is a power that no computer has ever come close to unlocking

[mild jay]

As a side note, I like the feeling of impact when the mechs spawn in

[ashen kindle]

Reminds me of into the breacg

[alpine sorrel]

Ya we've been looking at that as a reference a bunch

[magic cave]

it's a hella good reference so

[alpine sorrel]

We're gonna try to get the first new public build up on itch (since the KS demo, at least) early next week. Anyone feel like trying out a release candidate for major issues? Particularly if you run into any window/graphics problems (this is the first build with fullscreen enabled by default) or run into issues with the tutorial (which is now fully playable! ✨ )

0.2.3 :: https://1drv.ms/u/c/2d581114ae323070/EauTS5JuwYZEi7im4UrMoI4BmLwUs8Z0bBsrpvAq6a0ZDg?e=FuRPjX (PC, link expires next week)

[crimson merlin]

I got stunned by the grunt demolisher, first turn XD

[crimson merlin]

1. Getting stunned before second turn in the tutorial makes the Core Power tutorial popup not highlight properly. You'd think after two years playing Lancer I'd know, but I think first timers should have it spelled out to definitely take out the grunt first
2. During cutscenes if you move your mouse around while the camera is panning it highlights tiles, feels a bit wrong
3. UI elements are quite small at 4k resolution. Is UI scaling on the books at all? And/or maybe the unit cards should be cantered instead of up in corners. Quite far to look for things. I didn't notice that when I was playing in a window
   Logged bug tickets for 1 and 2.

[frigid shale]

… gonna say that Demolisher may be a rough NPC to start with for a tutorial haha

[alpine sorrel]

Lol that's what I've been saying, mark has pushed back narratively for it ("they're there to demolish") but I'll add this as more evidence.

[alpine sorrel]

Sure is! Does going to options > display and changing the UI scale there work for you?

[frigid shale]

I’d say Breacher could be a good sub for that? Or Bombard? But I understand the desire for Demolisher. Maybe have a neutral mech get attacked by the Demolisher first so folks can see what exactly happens when they get smacked?

I’m just speaking from playtest experience for my own stuff haha

[alpine sorrel]

Maybe we let people get smacked and add in a bit of dialogue about it. Good lesson to keep your distance from a demo.

Have the NPCs take a turn to monologue so it's not a death spiral

[harsh pagoda]

Speaking of, minor gripe but I've accidentally skipped entire dialogue chains by pressing right click on accident while trying to get used to the controls

[stuck falcon]

Gonna echo the feedback that a mech with Stun is potentially bad for a tutorial

[crimson merlin]

Dang. Didn't even think to check. You're gold!

[stoic bloom]

so, whenever i go to change colour paintbrush button on the instant action page, it instantly crashes the game

also

blinkspace slip mournincloak

immediately gone

[alpine sorrel]

amazing ty 🙏

[stoic bloom]

also weird bug. when apocalypse rail goes to one, it can't fire

the option is greyed out

also, when you want to reaction attack someone via goblin, due to the sheer amount of invade options, you can't see some of them as they're cut off screen. And you can't scroll through it to see them.

[alpine sorrel]

I'm not able to repro this — is your barb in engagement with someone? The fact that it can't be fired then always trips me up. Should probably reiterate that in the tooltip.

[stoic bloom]

hmm, no. I've done the planned firings when further from enemies. strange

also, can you not puppet system allies in this?

[alpine sorrel]

could you send me a save file with it not working? if you pause -> options -> data and then press the user data folder button, it should open windows explorer to a folder with saves/, and sending me either a manual save or the autosave in question should do it.

[alpine sorrel]

you should be able to — sounds like you're not? I'll note as another bug

[stoic bloom]

no, couldn't select allies

unless if it appears as an extra and I didn't notice

[stoic bloom]

also, something about the movement seems... off.

I siege cannoned a demolisher, and now it can't climb out at all even though it's only 1 height up. That, and for example the sample drake from the lineup can't scale over a size 1 terrain so with the urban map, it can essentially be stuck in the starting position forever

it should be able to climb up that little block to the side to get out of the starting zone, but it's completely unable to

[alpine sorrel]

sick sick noted ✍️

[stoic bloom]

also, as a mourning cloak, am I able to teleport grapple people? I've grappled a witch with core power active, but I seem to be unable to teleport with it

[tidal tulip]

yes you should as long as they also have a valid space to stand/fly

[stoic bloom]

they weren't able to strangely enough.

tried teleport grapple them to an empty space, but it keeps on saying "moving here would drop the grapple"

[tidal tulip]

I say should as in RAW, idk if that's allowed or planned in Tactics

[alpine sorrel]

Ya I didn't think of teleport kidnappings. Added to the list. 👍

[stoic bloom]

yeah, since if you have a blackbeard with singularity reaction from mourningcloak, you'd be able to teleport grapple as a reaction as well

[alpine sorrel]

God I'm so excited to start getting the other mechs ingame. You can really feel their lack

[magic cave]

apocalypse rail should be able to be fired in engagement iwrc?
and, furthermore, though this isn't super useful against a single enemy, ordnance just means you can't attack adjacent characters with it, not that it necessarily can't be used at all if you're in engagement.

[alpine sorrel]

Oh huh really? I've been playing ordnance wrong forever

[flint portal]

Ordnance means you can't fire at people engaged with you yeah

You can fire it at other people basically

[little jetty]

what if the real lancer tactics was learning the actual rules along the way

[magic cave]

yeah, that's one we learned over our course of existence in the homebrew mines

[alpine sorrel]

I'm having trouble replicating these crashes, as well... to be clear, you're seeing a crash on using the MC's blinkspace jump, like this?

and this is the paintbrush you're seeing a crash on press with?

[stoic bloom]

No, for the pc roster screen

[stoic bloom]

no crash on the blinkspace thing, but the teleport thing not working for grapples

[outer trail]

For me its when I press on this button

I think its the same one Bratty is mentioning?

the mech brush works just fine

[outer trail]

also, the assault's hunker down ability is supposed to prock only once a round. I think it got translated to once a turn in game

also it seems that if you can boost while stunned, you can move. either that or its the everest core power that I have active that lets it happen

[alpine sorrel]

Sick ty these are good bugs

[stoic bloom]

yes i mean that one

[alpine sorrel]

It took like three hours but I just fixed it. One of those fun "it only shows up in the exported build" bugs where I have to guess and check my way to the issue by commenting out code, making a build, and manually testing. Thanks again for finding it, this is the class of bug that's hardest to detect 👍

[mild jay]

The bane of all developers

[outer trail]

did you update the drive?

[tepid temple]

Alright, now just to find the button to redeem a key on Itch

Oh, wait, that's a link to do just that

[wraith heart]

So

Just loaded up the beta

Is dropping the difference between "skirmish" and "barrage", and allowing people to shoot-move-shoot an intended change? It's been a while since I read the devlogs...

[alpine sorrel]

Yeah, that's been a hot topic of internal conversation

Our paradigm makes it so doing skirm vs barrage straight would be awkward for little benefit

[crimson merlin]

It's a small thing. I think it's fine either way

[alpine sorrel]

The current plan is to see if dropping it entirely and letting attacks be flexible ends up pushing typical gameplay too far striker-wards

If it feels like an important restriction is missing I might patch in a "if your shoot then move, further attacks are disabled" thing

[wraith heart]

Well shoot-move-shoot is the real sticking point here, but it's not a completely irrelevant one here

[wraith heart]

Well, that works, until you have something like a Sherman popping ASURA, and then doing skirmish-move-barrage which is legal

[wraith heart]

I can see how weapons being standalone actions is easier, but has implementing barrage and scrim proven truly that challenging?
I can imagine a world where from UI standpoint, in place of where weapon buttons right now you just have "skirmish" and "barrage" buttons go, and then you are prompted to choose a weapon. And on the back end those are just actions that straightforwardly invoke attack anyways

Or has something like that been tried and failed already for some reason I didn't think of?

[alpine sorrel]

Here's the original discussion

I think the main issue is hiding options within submenus; every other possible action is WYSIWYG, so adding in the additional layer is a significant amount of UI friction for a questionable gain

[wraith heart]

So this makes it sounds like a UI/UX issue, but then in the original discussion you said several times it's not a UI issue, that could probably be solved if the will was there

So, I'm a bit confused as to what the original raison d'être for dropping barrage/skirmish distinction was, UI or something else?

[sand goblet]

I'm curious about the skirmish-specific triggers, would this mean that stuff like Lockbreaker gets triggered each time you attack? Also, how are you currently handling firing the same weapon multiple times per turn - is it sufficiently disconnected that if you attack/move/attack you can fire your heavy, move, then fire the same heavy again? If it isn't and there's something in the code to prevent repeats, how does the game distinguish that scenario from effects that normally would allow you to bypass that (Overcharge, ASURA, Overwatch, etc)?

[wraith heart]

Well in the live build a weapon is treated as an individual action
So you can't shoot the same weapon twice unless you get a free action

[sand goblet]

ah, that makes sense

though I'm now wondering about whether ASURA is treated in the same way, whether you could use it to fire four different mounts (or the same two mounts twice) or if there's some bespoke restriction

I really need to make some time to test out the latest build

[wraith heart]

ASURA is currently not in the game, by virtue of the whole of Sherman not being in the game

[fleet hatch]

tried out the beta

finally, I'm not longer the eternal GM

[teal flame]

god that's relatable

[alpine sorrel]

The original reason was likely "it doesn't come for free in our action-point paradigm" so we would have to sink dev work into doing something extra to replicate it, and then got caught up in the question of "well do we have to/should we, really?" Rereading that discussion it does look like I wasn't interested in polling for UI solutions (as you recommended, there's that fairly straightforward submenu one) as much as poking around to see if there were other angles to approach it.

[wraith heart]

I mean, as far as "should we do it", the main things current implementation fails to caputre I can see are:
Shoot-move-shoot
Having to commit to 2 attacks before seeing the outcome of them
Any sort of Skirmish-specific bonuses triggering twice instead of not at all when you attack with 2 weapons
Which, I saw at least passing mentions of in that old convo, so I assume you're aware of them? Although I haven't seen your thoughts on them in that chain, as everyone just kept pivoting back to UI

There's also, now that you're gunning for a full content port, the question of ASURA class NHP from Sherman 3, which is probably going to personally start a fistfight with any sort of workaround that could be put in place, because it explicitly grants extra actions that must still obey duplicate restrictions

Which mean that you may Skirmish to shoot weapon A, move, then Barrage to shoot weapon A and B, which doesn't work under the current paradigm (which treats shooting weapon A twice as a duplicate action), and fucks with proposed hacks like "disable weapons if you moved after attacking once"

[alpine sorrel]

I agree with that assessment of what the current approach fails to capture. 👍 Like I said we're currently at "let's keep an eye on it and see if their lack swings things too far in a striker-favorable direction."

On thinking about it, for ASURA the easiest implementation would be to grant two additional non-overcharge actions. This means you'd be able to attack with up to four different mounts, but couldn't do a skirmish/barrage on the same turn to double up on the same weapon. On the surface that seems like a fine tradeoff to me.

For the "skirmish specific bonuses" — there's a lot fewer of them than I expected in the CRB. For PCs, do you know of any besides Skirmisher 2?

[wraith heart]

Well ASURA grants 2 additional actions as written to begin with, so I don't quite see how this is a tradeoff rather than a straight up nerf? Like it loses the ability to double-dip on shooting a potent Heavy weapon, - possibly with mods and core buffs attatched to it, - for no tangible benefit

[wraith heart]

I think Skirmisher 2 is the only one...

[magic cave]

tbf being able to move 4 spaces in a turn for running our gameplan sounds pretty nuts

better on-attack movement than the Nelson gets

[toxic badge]

I would say code simplicity / ease of project execution / arguably smoother ux are pretty tangible benefits 🤔
Also, I don't know where the community falls on this, but that kind of nerf to asura wouldn't bother me in the slightest 🤷

[wraith heart]

Well, it's not a benefit to the ASURA is what I meant

[toxic badge]

oh! that makes sense 👍

[alpine sorrel]

Fun reported bug: the barb can't drop prone when it has a sniper's mark on because sniper's mark is a hostile effect & heavy frame makes it immune to prone from external effect sources smaller than the barb.

[frigid shale]

You know, I think that may be literal RAW, (but not RAI)

[alpine sorrel]

A barb trying to drop prone to avoid a sniper is a funny image, too.

[little jetty]

it wouldn't be the first time heavy frame interaction works against your favor (like you can't be moved by a smaller ally with ferrous lash)

clearly the solution is ship sniper

[teal flame]

https://i.namu.wiki/i/3R7t-q8L3yi_FexAVQLZtb8vVvRdV_fToCuqJzvZog4-YdxjSizQf7EaWBEQcshojMGxRDuegxKruuuB9ZqHCQ.webp

[rain cipher]

Skirmisher 2 talent applying to every attack including twice in a Barrage is huge tbh. That's one of the big tradeoffs of taking it, that you're gaining movement but sacrificing damage, enabling a hit and run playstyle. It's already one of the best talents in the game and this pushes it way further. Making it 1/round or 1/turn might be the simplest fit to the current paradigm imo, even if it means you don't get it on an Overcharge skirmish like tabletop.

1/round might be best to reflect on other Skirmish-action-triggered effects too though can't think of many others off the top of my head.

[alpine sorrel]

Skirm 2 for sure will have its natural on-turn trigger be limited to 1/round, but also allow it for all overwatches. Good thought for overcharge skirms, not sure how we'll handle that. If you can think of any other Skirmish-action-triggered effects lmk, but that's the only one I've found.

[wraith heart]

Is it? I am dubious
Barbarossa is immune to being knocked prone by other (smaller) characters, but that's not what Sniper's Mark does
Sniper's Mark lets Barbarossa inflict prone on itself as a free action, Sniper is not knocking anyone Prone here

[wraith heart]

Worth noting that in the TTRPG rules, you get zero Skirmisher 2 triggers if you want to shoot two weapons, not 1 trigger, so even that would be a buff

[alpine sorrel]

was thinking a patch for that could be if you opt-in to the skirm 2 movement after the first attack, it deactivates followup normal attacks

[wraith heart]

That works, as long as the first skirmish is not a free action

[wraith heart]

Speaking of obscure ordering interactions
I just realised that Tech Actions also work via the Full Tech/Quick Tech paradigm ratger than being individual quick actions, much like Barrage vs Skirmish, so there's hardly anything to say on the subject that wasn't already said
But I am curious if that was also an intentional choice, or just slipped under the radar?

[lethal leaf]

Yeah, the difference is that there are no Aux mounts for tech attacks.

[outer trail]

Oh, also: Personalizations is not supposed to be an option to destroy when structured.

[smoky glacier]

it's a system like any other, isn't it?

[frigid shale]

No part of the rules indicates this

You're thinking Custom Paint Job

[outer trail]

oh, mb

[outer trail]

Has anyone gotten honorable challenge to work?

because I cant

[tepid cipher]

Couple notes on lancer tactics

A Tokugawa was getting over watched by a sentinel they weren't in theat of. I think it happened cuz It ended it's turn in threat and then I did a lot of knockback with a sentinel

A priest also used investiture every turn which was odd

[alpine sorrel]

Interesting, any chance it's not too late for a screenshot of that happening?

[alpine sorrel]

Haha I've caught myself halfway to filing this as a bug so many times because it feels unintuitive.

[alpine sorrel]

I noticed that doubling up on non attack tech actions wasn't possible (though it should through full tech, right?) but wasn't able to get to ironing it out before release. Is that what you're referring to? If so yeah that one slipped

[tepid cipher]

I'm afraid not (was having too much fun playing and forgot)

Also goblins reactive code allowed me to horos 2

[wraith heart]

I was just reffering to the fact that you can't invade-move-invade in tabletop for the same reason you can't shoot-move-shoot, but you can do the former in the videogame for the same reason you can do the latter

And wondering if that was a separately considered decision, or just kinda happened by inertia

Not that it's a huge difference, but the formalities of Lancer order of actions resolution have taken hold of my brain for the last few days

[lethal flicker]

Is it possible to export maps? I've been thinking about what I might use to make battlemaps for lancer games lmao

[alpine sorrel]

I've wanted to add that and considered a few ways to do it... what camera angle do you think would be useful for turning an LT map into a battlemap?

I could generate something like this at full resolution but it's a bit awkward to have elevation with that since anything "behind" a building would have to sit on top of it

whereas if we go straight down we lose all elevation information

which could maybe be compensated for by the mapmaker by having clear texture distinctions between low/high ground, like in Arroyo

we could also revisit the rectangle-tile approach

[tepid temple]

I know "Just add both" is the solution that every programmer loathes to hear, but... would a drop down menu for "Export like this" or "Export it like this" be that troublesome to code?

[alpine sorrel]

The way I'd probably do it is "export at the current camera angle"

[tepid temple]

If I really had to pick, I'd go topdown. I'm already drawing over pre-existing drawn maps to mark terrain, and isometric is cute but I'm sure a real minority of GMs use them

[icy creek]

I find it hard to see how the isometric view could be practically useful after export flattening- you'd have a lot of confusing ambiguity of "is this mech on top of this building or behind it"

[tepid temple]

I for one assume that isometric-users are already on five layers of technical wizardry to make things work out

[tidal tulip]

i would export top down with elevation markers

[icy creek]

"Export at current angle" is not a bad solution but you probably want to have a way to set a consistent camera angle, since if people are exporting the map for use elsewhere they probably want to keep the settings consistent and not have to re-figure out settings every map. presumably not a problem as long as they're on default camera angle but might be relevant if they're allowed to swing more wildly

[tidal tulip]

isometric requires a variety of different z-indexes that exporting as a single image isn't possible

[alpine sorrel]

I could probably rig it up to export each z layer slice as a different image, which would work for everything besides multi-voxel objects like smokestacks

[icy creek]

That'd be pretty neat

[tired aurora]

holyhell I will give you my first born for this. That will be so awesome

[minor trench]

I just wanna say that the current bare bone build already feels so good and the UI is so much better for having my options in front of me.

It's a lot of buttons but it's a mecha, I want all those buttons in front of me like a control panel.

[wraith heart]

What about a top down perspective that's at a slight angle, so that elevation changes start being visible, but nothing really gets obscured?

[hard saffron]

Hey question, because I honestly don't know if this is RAI or RAW but, in the turtorial mission hornets seem to ignore terrain when targeting? Both of these attacked the character on their turn.

[alpine sorrel]

A friend of mine pointed this out to me too, recently. It comes from how we're doing LOS; a unit at a high elevation can see all elevations lower than it, and vice versa. LOS is only blocked when you have a thing that's taller than both in between the two. Here's a similar situation that feels wrong as well:

Calculating LOS is the biggest performance-blocker in the game and why I can't currently make web builds. I'm using algos sourced from roguelikes to cache an every-voxel-to-every-voxel calculation up-front instead of spot-checking with like just drawing a line (which we do for cover) because the AI needs to be able to ask "what tiles on the map can I see my target from?" and that requires checking most tiles on the map.

Since most roguelikes are in 2D, I've had to jimmy them into working in 3D, which requires coming up with rules like that crude "you can see things taller/shorter than you" rule

so the current method says this is fine, even though the line from A to C does to our eyes obviously travel through the block

The other alternative would be this "edge" method

where only the edge tile of the elevated blocks can see stuff lower than them, and vice versa

so a sniper on a tower could only see the land below if they were on the edge of that tower

I opted to be more permissive, but think in these cases where you're tucked up against something I should try to find how to add a special case

[mild jay]

I wonder how the firaxis xcom games handled LoS. They’re on a 3d grid, but I’ve only ever found people dissecting the rules of it, not how it’s implemented

[alpine sorrel]

I thiiink I remember reading they do a crude 3D voxel-based raycast. But I think they also made the game design decision to not surface total LOS information to the player and AI, and instead opt for a case-by-case "can unit X see Y" calculation only when they need it

you can see baldur's gate 3 doing a similar sort of cheat when you're mousing around to see what you can hit with a ranged attack. It gives you a fake "maximum range" circle on the ground but doesn't actually check if you can hit something until you mouse over it — there's a short delay

if we did that, we wouldn't be able to give LOS previews like this so quickly while mousing around seeing where you want to move

[alpine sorrel]

For more details, what I'm actually doing is computing LOS for each z-index as a 2D slice and then when I want to know if two tiles can see each other, I'm picking one of their elevation slices to count as the definitive answer. For the "everywhere" method, I'm listening to the highest slice. For the "edge" method, I'm listening to the lowest.

It's a tricky problem because from this perspective, the left and right situations are identical, though we'd want to say that the one on the left shouldn't be able to see the lower target.

Sooooooooo why am I not just using the average elevation instead of to top or bottom? That'd pretty clearly distinguish the two. Cool cool cool, I'm going to try that, good talk everyone.

[cold timber]

as always, we're happy to be your rubber ducky

[alpine sorrel]

ach, this still has the "sniper's tower" problem where you can only see to and from the edge of elevated areas, even when using the midpoint

and there's no way to tell if the midpoint is blocked due to an obstruction next to the target or just the "can't penetrate the interior of the raised area" issue

Maybe we say: the further the targets are apart, the higher the slice we use. Even if the data are all the same, we use the relative position of the targets to pick what data to listen to

[glad lotus]

Is LOS reciprocal using these models? I can't quite clearly tell from your descriptions.

[alpine sorrel]

yes

yeah I'm using language like "target" but it works both ways. the person on the ground wouldn't be able to see the sniper in the tower who stepped back a little, as well

the "who to listen to" idea doesn't solve the original problem of "if I'm behind a tall thing they shouldn't be able to see me", though... if far enough away you could see over anything

this is the function I'm working with. map.can_tile_see(...) is what queries the cached LOS data at a particular slice

[alpine sorrel]

I'm trying it anyway, and it's having the odd effect of, as planned, making a "blind spot" near the base of high places, but from below there's a banding effect of what you can and can't see — you can see the edge as usual and the far back because it's passed the threshold of distance to use a higher slice. From the pov of being down below, there's only window between those two that you can't see.

[tepid temple]

It should be that the thing in between only needs to be taller than one of the units, so long as it is right next to the obstruction. I'll admit that the RAW is illegible to me, so I can't argue from it, but I directly asked Tom about it, and he said that these two mechs would not have LOS as it wouldn't be reciprocal.

Coversely, LOS can be established here as the size 1 mech isn't right next to it

[alpine sorrel]

the tricky thing for me is that due to the calculation constraints, I don't know exactly where the thing blocking the LOS is — only whether a clear path exists at various elevations.

[little jetty]

edge to edge los can allow sniper towers to function though idk if it's worth it performance wise

[alpine sorrel]

This is a place I'm comfortable diverting from RAW and just trying to get something that feels right-ish because 1) that's how most people play anyway and 2) the calculation difficulties are so intense that they need to be prioritized

so as long as it's reciprocal and doesn't cause people to go like "wait, that doesn't make sense" I think we're golden

[ashen kindle]

Calculating "if" stuff in the middle I assume will mean that it's gonna cost a lot of time

[alpine sorrel]

might be worth it though. I'm open to coming up with more elaborate methods of choosing which line to use, as long as the base inputs are "can voxel A see B" and the only map-data question we can ask is "is there a clear path from tile X to Y at elevation Z"

so we could potentially do additional queries like "is there a clear line at the lower level two tiles away from the lower voxel in the direction of the higher voxel? -> if so, activate 'they're standing behind something' logic" but that can get messy fast

[ashen kindle]

I Can't think of an easy way of doing it without saying "if" in between every tile... :P

There must be some convoluted maths for it that could work...

When is LOS calculated?

[alpine sorrel]

At map start plus whenever a LOS-blocking object is added or removed from the map (e.g. terrain destruction)

it takes about 3-4 seconds on my macbook to do in the background.

(it takes 30 seconds to run in pure GDscript instead of c#, which is why the no-c# web builds are currently not feasible)

[rain cipher]

I'll admit I'm not entirely keeping up with how this all works, but would it be possible to use some sort of 2-pass system where it checks with a path trace only as necessary, or would that mess with the AI /previs too much since it's relying on everything being pre-calculated?
Sorry it's nebulous to me but sometimes I've found naïve questions useful for looking at things from a different angle, hopefully this is one of those 😅

[lusty quiver]

am I being dumb or is there some trick to reloading Loading weapons that I've missed

[alpine sorrel]

Is stabilize working for you?

[lusty quiver]

...

I will admit

That I had forgotten that that was how reloading worked in Lancer

I will now go sit in the corner

[alpine sorrel]

✌️ all good lol

I thiiink I've got a good solution for the LOS stuff btw. It handles both being able to hide in the shadow of large objects and doesn't suffer from the sniper's tower problem.

I'm doing an extra relatively cheap second check where I figure out which tile is lower and check on the average z slice layer from that lower tile to a third calculated "midpoint" tile

If that's blocked, they're in a shadow.

[stoic bloom]

i usually run lancer more like the edge method

[tepid temple]

This LOS talk has long since started flying over my head 😅

Honestly a big portion of the fantasy of a Lancer videogame is having it calculate LoS and Cover for me and It Just Works

I had to frantically pull up not one but two different guides the first time I ran a combat where I thought it was going to be a significant factor to the fight (it wasn't in zero-g so everyone couldn't just fly to get a vantage point)

[stoic bloom]

one could argue with this being a video game version of lancer, you could absolutely pull out the trigonometry

[magic cave]

isn't trig more relevant for distance? which isn't relevant in lancer since diagonals count as 1 anyways?

[alpine sorrel]

re: VTT exports, getting the camera angles correct was trickier than I thought so I've rigged up a prototype for the next version that can only take straight-topdown shots.

I'll sink a little more time into seeing if I can get elevation indicators with the zone rendering system

[crimson merlin]

It might be worth having a height indicator overlay for the top-down camera for normal play

[alpine sorrel]

yeah that's what I'm trying to do with the zones... it's not going well. This is a version with dotted lines going from blue to red as they get higher.

The 3D map system makes you want to have more uneven terrain than you would if you were making a dedicated battlemap, which "shards" the elevation changes in a way that makes it difficult to have a solid zone of some height

[mild jay]

Is there already some color adjustments as elevation increases (like value or saturation) or is that just the lighting?

[crimson merlin]

That's looking pretty good - almost exactly how I imagined. Just need to put the elevation height as a number on the ground of each section, I think

[teal flame]

it’s probably way too hard to code, but would there be any way to piggyback off the line you’re already drawing when selecting a target?

[cold timber]

Would it be too expensive to precompute and cache more accurate LoS between each tile at map load? Wouldn't help with flight/mag clamps but would take care of a majority of the need. And for flight, you should be able to ignore any tiles that the cache for that position already has los for, right? Just need to do los for tiles you couldn't already see. If you have destructable terrain you'd need to recompute for that tile maybe...

[alpine sorrel]

Unfortch any change in LOS blocking requires a full-map recalc. Imagine a hole in a wall opening up; suddenly all the tiles on one side of the wall should be able to see through to the other side

And doing a more expensive one depends on the implementation, but remember that this is voxel-to-voxel so worst case you have a 60x60x10 (36,000) space to calculate. Even the more common case of 30x30x10 is 9000, so if a calculation takes even 1ms that's nine seconds of waiting
edit: wait that's just the number of voxels; the number of connections between them squares that 😵 it's a little better because I break them up into slices, as described above, so the common case is 10 x (30x30)^2 = literally over 8 million calculations... is that right? That's wild; a full megabyte at perfect bit storage

[latent sandal]

That’s fucked up. Good luck in your development. Singular game dev Olive.

As they say. Lancer tactics tomorrow.

[tidal tulip]

sorry if this is retracing steps, but why precalculate all this? why not calc on demand and cache?

[alpine sorrel]

That was my first approach, but the game requires getting a lot of LOS data very quickly when you mouse around with the movement preview because you need to see what you can see from that tile. And then when NPCs are making plans they need to know questions like "what are all the tiles I can see this target from?" which requires a pretty thoroughly calculated map anyway

So calcing on demand led to a semi unresponsive experience when planning your move and then we'd do a full sweep on the NPC turn anyway

The former UX problem would likely be better since I've now unlocked the Multithreading skill tree but there'd be a delay before LOS data showed up

[tidal tulip]

ah im seeing it, ty

[flint portal]

"seeing" and "not seeing" is indeed the problem

😈

[tidal tulip]

my mind is going into some kind of matrix multiplication thing but it's not clear how. i might do a bit of investigation into that so you could fit it in a compute shader or something
<-- has 0 days of game dev experience

[alpine sorrel]

I learned this last week that compute shaders are going to be risky to try and rely on; they're not available in godot 4's compatibility rendering mode, which based on the current crash reports roughly 1% of players need for the game to run

But here's the algorithm I'm currently using, if you want some interesting reading! : http://www.adammil.net/blog/v125_roguelike_vision_algorithms.html#permissivecode

I would love love love to get it written in a c++ extension to get away from dotnet and c#, but I don't know how to write c++ and don't understand the algo enough (despite translating it to gdscript to see what the performance would be like 😅 ) to confidently dive in and try

[final onyx]

ime C++ was no different from C# for most things, but equally I could be on the dunning kruger curve

[tidal tulip]

depends on the dotnet integration that godot may have. The dotnet JIT and AOT compilers are really good. They shouldnt have a lot of performance overhead comapred to C/C++, but if even translating to GDScript is faster, something may be up with either the C# code or Godot's integrations

[outer trail]

In the combat editor it seams to lag out at random times. Mainly whenever I am changing an option.

And when I use the fill tool

[alpine sorrel]

do you have more specifics? which option changes? when you select the fill tool and mouse around or actually place blocks with it?

[alpine sorrel]

ah, translating to gdscript was way slower; iirc it's like 3s for c# and 30s for gdscript. I mostly want to get away from c# because I don't want to have to use the Mono version of godot, which doesn't support web exports + is a little slower to compile.

[tidal tulip]

you would def know better than me, but i though godot 4 had support for dotnet core rather than mono. im probably wrong

[toxic badge]

very clever 😮 I'm glad the person making the lancer video game is like 30x smarter than me lol

[toxic badge]

yeah, for the max case 60 * 60 * 10 -> 36,000 voxels, squared -> 1,296,000,000 possible pairs, / 8 -> 162,000,000 -> ~154 megabytes for a one-bit mask if my math is right 🤔
I was considering if it would be enough to add a culling pass to an algo that wanted full voxel to voxel info (instead of the slice approach) to filter out voxels that are inaccessible at the moment, since you only care about the top solid voxel of any column (and 3 or 4 voxels above the top one for tall characters/flying characters...? idk)
but even then that's only going from 10 height to 3 height, still 116,640,000 pairs -> 14,580,000 bytes -> ~14 megabytes 🙃

[alpine sorrel]

The saving grace is the one I glossed over in the edit there: I misspoke about it being voxel-to-voxel; it's actually ten separate tile-to-tile layers: a much more manageable (60x60)^2 = 12,960,000 pairs per slice -> x10 -> 129,600,000 possible pairs / 8 -> 16,200,000 -> 16 mb one-bit mask.

All those charts showing lines that were contained within one z-level are because I only know visibility within-slice and can't directly check LOS between slices.

You're probably right about being able to cull out a lot of the data... until we have a flying (+3) barbarossa (+3) hovering over idk a rock or something that increases elevation but doesn't block los (+1).... and we're up to needing ground level +7 visibility data (plus everything in between). It's definitely an edge case but the culling system would have to be able to adapt for that.

I currently count everything higher than 10 as 10 for LOS purposes, but haven't stress-tested it.

[glad lotus]

Re: culling, what about only calculating LOS for voxels within move*2 or move*3 of at least one actor?

At move * 3 that's probably most of the map anyway. 🤔

I dunno, you could probably do some clever heuristics to only pre-/re-calculate LOS for a subset of the voxels based on whose turn it is and where they could actually move to... but that heuristic is going to take some time of its own to run, and you'd be back to needing to dynamically recalculate LOS on basically every turn.

[near radish]

Thoroughly loving the barebones, found a couple bugs tonight.
#1, had a flying unit get targeted by a melee weapon. Not sure if it being part of an avalanche charge affected it.

#2, A toku gets hit with glitch scanners from a mirage. The tech attack tooltip says it does 2 heat, but the toku takes 3. Armchair experts, correct me if I missed something that would have bumped up that heat by 1.

[alpine sorrel]

Noted and noted. For #1 it looks like we need to update the description for flying; it currently doesn't make you immune to melee attacks, it just puts you 3 spaces in the air which puts you out of range of most attacks. If a flier is next to a cliff, another unit can come up and smack it just fine which is what looks like happened there.

I'm open to the possibility of making fliers flatly immune to melee attacks, since we lost the tabletop's ability of just flying higher to get out of reach.

But oh it's satisfying to grapple a hornet and see it immediately fall.

[near radish]

Ooh, missed that change. Ty.

[flint portal]

I feel like if you pay the cost to go up terrain to attack someone not on said terrain you’ve earned it

[ashen kindle]

Also flyer vs flyer melee action

[sand goblet]

flying at height 3 does leave you open to being jump-grappled

(though I have no clue whether LT lets you take a jump, let alone break one up)

[west stirrup]

This might be something worth figuring out especially if the Kai Bioplating core bonus is going to be a thing (I think that's the one that lets you jump good, right? One of the SSC ones)

[alpine sorrel]

Jumping is on the to-do list, and I'm electing to ignore the you-can-break-up-a-jumpjet ruling

It's sick but would be hard to implement

Well.... now that I'm thinking about it, I could use the variant action panel like WA does as a way for you to choose an interrupting attack...

[sand goblet]

(for the record the more significant consequence of allowing jumps to be broken up is Tactician 2 bunnyhopping)

[alpine sorrel]

Maybe between that and easy melee against flying I'd best not then

[ashen kindle]

Id imagine jumping would be easiest as just, like baldurs gate jumping

Just select where you're going and jump

[little jetty]

what if you have to jump up though
or like jump up and skirmish with melee

[ashen kindle]

I've only ever jumped like 4 times in my 3 years of playing lancer

Excluding with assassins with kai bioplating

[little jetty]

wait can you jump up and attack over a wall in RAW

[tidal tulip]

yea. you check for LoS at the moment of action, which is mid air

[ashen kindle]

The barbarossa suplex against the hornet flying at height 6 is possible

[hazy ferry]

This games prototype a while ago was my first proper introduction to Lancer and taught me a lot about the action economy and saving my friends from explaining it to me, so I'll buy the full game.

Thanks!

Nevermind, Itch doesn't want to process the payment

[alpine sorrel]

I've been having trouble with that too for that last few years... they don't accept my card, only paypal. Dunno why. Appreciate the sentiment tho 🙂

[hazy ferry]

Unfortunately I refuse to use Paypal after they hallucinated charges and cost me several hundred dollars of overdraft for a 5 dollar charge that didn't exist

[teal sundial]

is it possible rn to build a working sitrep using the combat editor?

[alpine sorrel]

Not a reusable one to be used via instant action, but you should be able to make one-off combats with sitreps. The trigger system has a steep learning curve but is what we used to make the holdout/gauntlet.

You're supposed to be able to load them as examples for triggers but looks like that functionality got lost in the shuffle; I'll make a note to re-enable it for the next build. Until then if you feel like seeing if you can figure it out by another example, you can load the tutorial (open -> stock -> tutorial) and go through its triggers.

[swift barn]

I seem to be having trouble using Drake's portable bunker in Instant action, it only gives me the option to cancel its deployment instead of actually putting it down. I should note that the mechs having the issue are the Everest and the Barbarossa. Is this a known bug or am I missing something obvious?

[alpine sorrel]

It can be a bit finicky about placement -- is there a 4x4 flat spot nearby that can fit it? Or can you post a screenshot?

[swift barn]

Give me a tick and I'll see.

So heres the best screen shot I could take firing up a quick Instant Action:

I have a feeling I'm doing something wrong here, but I honestly can't figure out whats going wrong.

[alpine sorrel]

This looks like a problem with large deployables — it seems you have to target the top-left space that the deployable will occupy (the "real" tile for anything large). I've done a lot of secret automatic-adjustment for picking tiles for other large things but missed this. Logged; thanks for the report.

[swift barn]

Thank you and the team for working on this! Big fan of what you guys are doing!

[swift barn]

Back with another bug report: using Contruct False Idol on the Barbarossa using overcharge causes the game to freeze for a brief moment and fails to place down the idol.

[crimson merlin]

Game is like "Why do you hate me?"

[swift barn]

Especially when I love it so much. D:

Additionally Refiting mechs after changing their lisences sometimes leave them with a gun from the previous loadout:

[swift barn]

I don't know if this is a place holder, but this friend showed up after firing the Apoc-Rail:

[teal flame]

it normally does terrain damage like that

so yes, intended

the water is just from the water level being that

[magic cave]

this does beg the question of if the ground beneath your feet is intended to be counted as "terrain"

which just

saying aloud the answer seems yes, but we mean mechanically, in Lancer

[orchid pendant]

It's not. No shooting the ground with Jackhammer to get anyone anywhere.
#rules-questions message
#rules-questions message

[crimson merlin]

My vibe is: It's the sort of thing that is way too much brain-space for at a tabletop, but if a computer is doing it: why the heck not! It's badass doing mid-mission terraforming

[magic cave]

there are still evidently some issues that crop up because of it though

like the water

[crimson merlin]

I don't think water physics are on the list, so liquid layer is just based on height. If you dig down far enough you hit aquifier and all the dorfs are in trouble

[glad lotus]

Yeah, personally I think the water crater is very cool

[icy creek]

hey nothing is stopping the GM from simulating the entire world as size 1 pieces of terrian

[stoic bloom]

had a similar bug yeah, where you'd fire the apocalypse rail and then a little guy just shows up out of nowhere in the crater

like hey buddy, were you buried in the dirt or something?

[swift barn]

He was mining his own business until you unearthed him!

Bat-dum-tish

[mild jay]

Yeah I think the issue is less about the water or ground destruction and more about the mech appearing - the sprite sticking out of the water doesn't seem to match any of the portraits on the pc or npc sides

[swift barn]

Was it also the everest sprite?

[alpine sorrel]

Oh I see, that's wild lol. What's happening there is that the way I get a zone with ability-specific rules is by making an invisible unit that has proximity-based effects; sort of like an uninteractable hive drone

For some reason it did not successfully hide itself

Big "the half-life train is just a guy with a train for a hat" game dev hack energy.

[crimson merlin]

I thought that was one of the Fallout games. Or was it as well?

[alpine sorrel]

Or at least I think this is what's happening

[crimson merlin]

I can't remember. Didn't find the answer in a quick search and don't care to spend a lot of time on it 😛

[tidal tulip]

it was half life yes. i think half life 2 specifically

[latent sandal]

Fallout 3 i thnk

[crimson merlin]

This conversation is.... derailed.

(I'll see myself out)

[tired aurora]

gurren lagaan style pwerup where the battlemap is the universe, and each tile represent a cluster of galaxy

[torpid orbit]

will this game use triggers and backgrounds along with downtime activities?

[alpine sorrel]

Nope!

Lancer's narrative mechanics rely too much on human interpretation and flexibility to really pull off for a computer

We're doing the more common CYOA visual novel style that computers are good at. Mayyybe with some additional choices for certain backgrounds but that's not part of the core loop

[flint portal]

I may be remembering it badly but wasn't there talk of the narrative of Lancer Tactics being twine based in some form?

[alpine sorrel]

The module/downtime editor looks a lot like twine; blocks of text with connections between them

[flint portal]

Right yeah

[patent pasture]

Just checking, I think? it's been discussed before, but will the scripting be exposed to people to make their own campaigns?

[alpine sorrel]

Yep -- all the stuff we make will be with the player-facing editors.

Though we do have the advantage of being able to add stuff to those editors when we need something specific

[final mesa]

ASURA doesn't allow repeat actions iirc

[flint portal]

Yeah but it does allow you to Skirmish, Overcharge Skirmish and then Barrage

[sand goblet]

Thanks, I know how ASURA works 🙄

The point here is that Lancer Tactics does not distinguish between skirmish and barrage, and under its action paradigm ASURA would gives you four separate actions with which you can fire weapons, so long as you don't repeat

Like, at least read the conversation before assuming I don't know how Lancer works 😠

[final mesa]

Yeah sorry, I hadn't read the dates and was quite a bit behind.

[trail canyon]

Don't be rude pls, people make mistakes 🤷

[alpine sorrel]

It's not your job to insert yourself into moderating this, friend.

[flint portal]

Hey this was handled between both party already, please don't show up to wag your finger

moderating is our job

[trail canyon]

Okay mb! Sorry about that

Been on too many un[der]-moderated servers lol, but I'm sorry for getting involved

[flint portal]

I mean this was also handled between both parties before I commented here just now, just no need to drag it out again

Anyway, if there's any more talk to be done about lets not do it here, apologies for taking up the space Olive!

[lethal flicker]

I forgot I sent that message, but I like the idea of an isometric one. It might be possible to generate it with seperate layers, and then import that to foundry? I know there are 'multi layer' options, I haven't given them a whirl myself yet

[tired aurora]

the option to render the image without building and object on one layer and only terrain on another would be awesome (for faciliating destructible enviroments)

[alpine sorrel]

I haven't worked with foundry in a long time, so I don't know the format it'd need... the obstacle I hit quickly for iso was no being able to slice up tall objects/setpieces into z-indices as well, so there'd always be some awkward ordering with them.

[mild jay]

Most isometric foundry maps I see use a specific module with flat images for the ground and tiles for elevated terrain and objects

[alpine sorrel]

so like each object is its own exported image?

and the GM manually arranges them?

[mild jay]

As I understand the process yeah

The starlight furnace asset packs are what I see recommended for that a lot, so it does have a pretty different look than a Lancer Tactics map

Less like voxel maps more like StarCraft (original) maps

[alpine sorrel]

today's bugfix: symbiosis can no longer be used on deployables. (brought to you by a goblin fusing to a portable bunker)

[tepid temple]

There's gotta be some kind of tech there

[alpine sorrel]

Figured this one out — it was a tier 2 Mirage, which deals 3 heat on warp sensors. The tooltip was showing it at its tier 1 level.

[slow helm]

Hey, how do you rotate things in the map editor?

Figured it out! If anyone has the question in the future, it's 'X'.

[woven glade]

New version is really good, however I have found a few issues:

• Tech attack don't care about LoS (from Witches and Mirage) due to a misinterpretation of the rules. According to Lancer RPG's core book, every action require LoS unless specified otherwise. As such the coding of these attacks are unbalanced compared to their original counterpart.
• The map editor's tiles are not changeable? Its all sandstone for me and that is an issue due to the sand texture giving me an intense eye-staining glow that makes it hard to play for a long time. Hopefully this can be fixed

(the raised blocks are supposed to be blue btw)

[alpine sorrel]

Looks like you had to download the DEBUGCOMPAT version? That's a test build where the modern Godot rendering mode wasn't working on some people's computers, but at the cost of a buncha graphical problems like the world being flashbang'd.

The next release should be able to degrade more gracefully (disabling things like shadows) that fixes the thing where all terrain looks the same

I'm not sure about the LOS issue -- tech attacks should definitely still require LOS. I'll double check to see if that somehow also broke in the DEBUGCOMPAT mode

[west stirrup]

"every action require LoS unless specified otherwise"

Oh no I've been running npcs totally wrong then just because their quick techs often don't specify los the same way, often saying "within sensors" rather than "within sensor and line of sight that PCs do. oops lmao. I just thought the witch was good like that?

[alpine sorrel]

Are you sure the LOS issue is specific to tech attacks? The most recent build had some edge cases where it seemed like things shouldn't have LOS but did, discussed here: #1079952007915376711 message

[woven glade]

oooh gotcha yeah i had to use the debugcompat version

[woven glade]

Yup! Was a shock even to my when I realized it, its honestly quite embarrassing

[woven glade]

haven't checked but everything seemed fine? might be, i'm gonna try to test it

also sorry for multi ping, still not used to disabling them

Okay it might not be specific to the tech attacks, as even the assault managed to strike at me despite shooting through a mountain (which was indicated as being LoS blocking as seen on the side)

gonna try to make the normal version work to see if that fixes those kinds of issues

okay didn't seem to change much, anyway

glad to hear it is an issue you know about

Can't wait to see the future of this game because god it is hella fun

[woven glade]

Drake really outdid himself, he literally dug himself into a hole XD

[alpine sorrel]

It might still be a bit too easy to destroy terrain blocks lol.

[woven glade]

nah

this was made by a bombard hitting the same position for 6 rounds

its pretty durable

[quaint yoke]

pokes head in hows it going gang

[teal flame]

don't forget that LoS is really hard to break in lancer

because you can see OVER cover you're the same height as

[hazy ferry]

I can only assume that they attach GoPro sticks onto the top of frames to see slightly over

[woven glade]

Ence why I picked maps with higher than one elevation

[woven glade]

Has anyone made a map for Lancer tactic?

[grand notch]

The Chomolungma is not currently planned for adding, right? I'm pretty sure it's not.

[woven glade]

considering we still haven't gotten every player mechs i don't think we'll be getting the add-on versions soon

Created my first map and its working! Trench warfare gaming

[slow helm]

the conceptual opposite: instead of trenches, why not have bridges?

flooded cityscape map

[woven glade]

nice

small issue on my end

uh

the enemies won despite none of them being on the center objective- oh fuck i played gauntlet not holdout nvm

no bug just me being dummy

[woven glade]

would love to play it (and have it all be turned to sandstone due to being on debugversion)

[tired aurora]

would. these maps look AMAZING

[woven glade]

Another bug I found, not sure if its known:
When a mech meltsdown it is supposed to leave a turn for them, except that in the game you meltdown at the end of the turn instead of next turn, ence this makes it feel as tho the game is taking a turn away from you

Another missing thing, being dismounting, and ejecting, making meltdown kinda an instant-death since you can't even leave your mech to save your life

I do understand if these actions haven't been made yet, developpment is hard

[alpine sorrel]

We're not planning on adding combat ejects or dismounts, actually, because we don't want to have to tangle with pilot combat.

I hadn't thought what that means narratively... maybe we should add a little escape pod on destruction like in the early mechwarriors

[latent sandal]

team-rocket style blastoff animation pack dlc for 1.99 when????

[woven glade]

that's a great idea, through would also love to have an extra turn before meltdown as it is written for the next version

on another subject there's aslo a bug with ideal image where I spent the action, but the ideal image didn't appear. It feels extremely bad to waste an action as it doesn't do anything (i know it works in a previous battle but for some reason it didn't at another point)

It likely is due to ideal image allowing you to place something on an invalid space that's shifted by elevation or somthing, ence ending the action without you making the ideal image

[alpine sorrel]

Any chance of getting a screenshot of where you were trying to place the ideal image to help me replicate?

[crimson merlin]

Yesss. Weaponising your meltdown XD

[woven glade]

one sec

wrong tech btw, it was false idol

okay it worked this time for some reasons...

let's try again

for some reason it works now i dunno what's- huh?!

man, hate when bugs can't be replicated easily...

I do have a different idea, or possible interpretation of what happened
It was during a holdout with max enemy deploy and 4 lancers.
So maybe there were too many actors? hm...

yeah i got no clue

if it happens again i'll try to post a screenshot of the aftermath and where i had aimed

[alpine sorrel]

That'd be great, thank you for helping narrow it down!

[woven glade]

👍

[sleek forum]

Is there social media for Lancer Tactics or is it mainly itch.io and this Discord? Just wanting to see if there's a list of intentional rules changes before reporting anything as a bug.
(By the way, I haven't played or followed since the demo way back when. Fantastic work so far, I love it!)

[alpine sorrel]

There's my bsky/mastodon/tumblr linked on the itch page, but they don't have more info than the dev blogs do (also on the itch page).

I don't think we've compiled a comprehensive list of rules changes anywhere

I think the big ones are:

• flying height locked
• collapse full/quick actions into a action point system, with the side effect of allowing more flexibility of movement and commitment
• no pilot combat
  I can't think of any others off the top of my head

[tepid temple]

LOS shenanigans?

[alpine sorrel]

Ah yes

• LOS works in a way that's easy to compute that sorta approximates eyeballing it instead of sticking to RAW or even RAI necessarily

[latent sandal]

I don’t know anything about programming or game development but this is what I imagine olive is doing most of the time

[alpine sorrel]

Oh another one:

• the ground is destructible lol. Still won't be a valid target for eg siege spec I but can be hit by aoe attacks.

[sleek forum]

I noticed that when I forgot my Drake rolled reactor meltdown!

[hazy ferry]

Question:

Will this eventually end up on Steam or GoG?

[alpine sorrel]

Yep on steam for sure sometime post-kickstarter promises fulfilled. We're gonna sort that process out more next year

[icy creek]

🤔 tutorial's gonna be real important when onboarding people who aren't already big into lancer. it's already not the easiest game to learn and tactics players are being tasked with 4x the characters of a usual lancer player

[mild jay]

I was actually wondering earlier the action points change might help with that somewhat. Simplifies the process of managing a given character’s turns just a tad

[latent sandal]

Tutorial team: 4 autostab HMG Everests

[hazy ferry]

Tbh the demo helped me learn the Lancer Action Economy

[teal flame]

yeah same

[lethal flicker]

Aesthetically peak

[slow helm]

here's the updated/final version of it

if you wanna poke arnd with it

[rugged copper]

this is a really pretty map

[slow helm]

[cinder island]

my god i love this tiel

[alpine sorrel]

That's really ace, fantastic work 🤩 I like how there's a few distinct styles of building.

[slow helm]

i had to add a big bridge so that our size 3 friends actually have somewhere they can go

even still this map is a pain to actually navigate if you don't have flight systems, jumpjets or are above size 1

if you do, though, you get to do mech parkour

[cinder island]

time to finally make an Atlas i guess

[teal flame]

where do we find the itch.io key?

ah wait there it is

[teal flame]

there's apparently some frame sprites down there?

don't ask what happened to the platform

[slow helm]

did you fire an apocalypse rail

because the apocalypse rail does that™️

it spawns a frame sprite where it lands

[teal flame]

ahhh

yes, yes i did

[teal flame]

oh huh, Fold Space is apparently not doing heat

[fleet hatch]

https://youtu.be/-Yi4SGJteU8?si=iEGgipyxprqRSyEQ Intro to Lancer Tactic is out now!

[harsh pagoda]

We made it to the Big Leagues

[void hornet]

@primal sage thread here

[primal sage]

eeee

[alpine sorrel]

aaaaaa so cool 🤩

[shrewd hazel]

Hello, didn't realize there was a channel for Lancer Tactics so I can finally ask: Is there a link to the source for the terrain tiles? They look really nice and I would love to use them for my foundry games

[crimson merlin]

Olive is working on a top-down view so you can build and export terrains for VTT

Linky #1079952007915376711 message

[shrewd hazel]

ah, but none yet eh? I shall watch her career with great interest. Absolutely lovely art style

[elfin peak]

Just saw that video and immediately bought this, love that you're doing a 1:1 (or as close as possible) representation of the tabletop game!

When campaigns eventually come out I could even use it to play with a friend or two via remote play!

[elfin peak]

Oh huh, noticed you're using 3D models (presumably with draw-overs) to create your sprites? (The Drake fortifications are still using a sprite of the raw model) Just mentioning because 3D assets are kinda my job and I'd love to contribute.

[alpine sorrel]

The 3d models are still 3d; you can rotate the camera with Q/E to see em. We have the modelling covered for now, but thank you for the offer!

[alpine sorrel]

Amazing bug report from itch:

Symbiosis + metahook results in an infinite self-heat loop

[stuck falcon]

mood

[past quail]

I, too, am constantly stressed. It's okay, Drake

You did your best, bud.

Also, the exactly one "exposed" condition is the cherry on top for me

this is a brilliant bug report

[alpine sorrel]

basically this: https://www.tiktok.com/@gahhhbbiewatts/video/6906702751309303046

[woven glade]

I really hope one day we can mod tactics easily, as I would love to make pilot sprites and code to allow anyone to jump out of their mech and punch their enemies with THEIR FIST!

[tepid temple]

You may not like it, but this is what peak Tokugawa performance looks like.

[alpine sorrel]

I know they say stress is a resource but damn

[tepid temple]

STRESS IS A RESOURCE

AND I'M DOING A BANK RUN

[shrewd anvil]

Me irl

[hazy ferry]

Me irl

[latent sandal]

Me irl

[elfin peak]

@final patrol

[heady dragon]

me irl

[hazy ferry]

Is that the mech that the Goblin is attached to using Metahook on the Goblin?

[alpine sorrel]

Not sure, haven't repro'd it yet

[hazy ferry]

Funny either way

[edgy tulip]

it's not letting me screenshot

i love this game

print screen opens up the data settings

until it decides not to

[elfin peak]

Have you tried windows key + prtscr?

Saves it to your picture folder

And might not trigger the hotkey

[deft rapids]

Heading to Mind Games this evening, finally applied one of my KS stickers to make sure my clipboard was recognizably mine!

[alpine sorrel]

hey chat, how attached are we to being able to opt into not clearing heat between combats?

<<<< working on the rest/repairs and would like to skip adding the UI logic for doing so

[grand notch]

It sounds like if it's enough of a pain that you're asking, it's not worth it.

[icy creek]

agreed

[alpine sorrel]

cool cool cool

[tepid temple]

As a distinct thing from opting not to rest a mech, or just "rests are always mandatory between combats"?

[alpine sorrel]

as a distinct thing; like while you're resting you do other repairs but choose to not clear all heat

[outer trail]

I would prefer to keep the auto clear heat between missions

[worn tiger]

point of clarification: olive was asking if the option to not clear heat should be kept in

[crimson merlin]

I assumed the heat clearing after battle was mandatory, but looked it up and nope

[worn tiger]

also huh, yeah, that sure is a may

[tepid temple]

Yeah that seems like a hassle for a niche edgecase benefit

[worn tiger]

wild, i've been playing lancer for years and never realized you could keep the heat

[outer trail]

oh, go figure

[alpine sorrel]

you can also technically keep your slowed and prone and stuff lol

[crimson merlin]

*spins up leviathan forever

[gaunt plume]

We stay in the danger zone

[lethal leaf]

No, you'd just be slowed but the Leviathan would be unspun. And it'd have no duration.

[gaunt plume]

This could make for some interesting Enkidu plays and interactions just being able to start scenes in the Danger Zone. (Possibly others, I've never looked much into stuff that utilizes Danger Zone so that's the only one that immediately sticks out to me)

[crimson merlin]

Tokugawa so hot

[tepid temple]

I always thought it was an all-or-nothing deal, like you'd only keep your heat and talent dice if you forgoed the heals and equipment repairs

[hazy ferry]

Now you can immediately friendly fire instead of waiting to get to Dangerzone

[deft rapids]

It's basically just a tech that toku, enkidu, and nuke cav maxxers use

I think it's marginal enough to not add in

[teal flame]

i mean making it so that doesn’t happen just means that players are going to stabilize on the last turn, it’s not hard to justify giving players a full action for free post-combat

[elfin peak]

Not like you can't use a shield system or some other heat building protocol to rapidly generate heat anyway.

Also is there any chance we get controller support? currently can't navigate the menus without a mouse (or I guess touchscreen) I know its a very non-main kinda feature but it'd be handy in certain circumstances.

[icy creek]

you misunderstand; the question is not "should we not clear heat when resting" it's "does there need to be an option to not clear heat when resting, in case players want that for very niche reasons"

[amber nebula]

Tbh as a GM I never really liked the fact you could keep your heat, it helps too much NuCav Build which is already a very popular build.

[patent pasture]

I think I've asked in the past (ages ago when such things were up in the air, from memory), but as part of the between mission scripting, is it possible to add images? I'm thinking essentially establishing shots, etc

[fleet hatch]

I think if your mech is hot enough to start melting itself, it's probably not a good idea for a pilot to poke around the internal to fix it

[wraith cradle]

My near-nuclear manticore is plenty safe to repair without venting heat. I don't know what you mean.

[hazy ferry]

Also realistically your mech would probably cool down in like, half an hour unless you specifically tried to avoid that with like, insulation and stuff

Unless it was in void

But you also aren't in space very often between missions I'd imagine

Sure in missions but after I'd assume the ship you came from would pick you up

[alpine sorrel]

Controller support is on the list for post-kickstarter prepping-for-steam work. This is a menus game so figuring out how to navigate the whole thing without a mouse is going to be a decent chunk of work.

[alpine sorrel]

Yep, I think how it'll work is you'll put an image in a specified folder and can then use it for dialogue/text/beat backgrounds.

I'm working on that system this week, actually, in addition to switching the default downtime format to use special mini-maps we're calling "dioramas" like this with event/repair buttons linked to certain tiles.

[tepid temple]

Ooooo

[patent pasture]

Very cool

[edgy tulip]

apologies if it's been asked a lot, but what is on the chopping block for the next update? i bought the game like two days ago so i am not quite in the loop for where to look for things

[wraith cradle]

It looks like rests/repairs are what Olive's working on currently.

Along with bug fixes.

[edgy tulip]

thank you! i ended up also finding the kickstarter page, so i'll go check it from time to time

[alpine sorrel]

fixes coming down the pipe:

• automatically fall back to compatibility mode for older hardware (~1% of machines won't run the current build)
• fixed LOS calc to better match intuition
• export top-down map views as png
• handful of misc mechanics fixes
• the above rest/repairs for modules; this might not make it into the instant action in time for the build tho

This month was not the most productive checkbox-wise, and my dev efforts are focused on getting the internal tools in a good state before I have to take two months off to do other contract work in order to support myself for the rest of the year

I post the updates to both the kickstarter page and itch

[elfin peak]

LOS fix is 👌

[tired aurora]

darkest dungeon ahhh "hurdling around a campfire"

[slow helm]

working on another map

[teal flame]

ooooh

[slow helm]

because sometimes you need to conquer a castle

[flint portal]

Out of curiosity

what's changed about the map making tool since the like

very first build of the kickstarter?

For those who used it

[elfin peak]

Any place I can download this?

[slow helm]

not yet!

[toxic badge]

godot dev question, how do you fall back to compatibility mode? Is it just a switch you flip while running? do you have two exports and some external script to figure out which to run?

[alpine sorrel]

As is the pattern, the moment I run into a long-running serious fundamental problem with the engine (ie needing to make different builds for different rendering modes), they happen to come out with an update that fixes it; godot 4.4 now apparently does the fallback automatically: https://github.com/godotengine/godot/pull/97142

[alpine sorrel]

I have a thing detect what rendering mode we're in and enable/disable some settings to try and make the change in their capabilities not too jarring (such as needing to disable all shadows for the fallback in order to not have a constant flashbang-effect 😵‍💫 )

[shrewd hazel]

"Yet" makes me excited

[slow helm]

castlemap™️ update

provided here for play in your own games

[honest wave]

Oo I just got the game, I’m wondering if the bonus damage mechanics has been implemented currently, bc idk how to activate the stuff like thermal charge or overpower caliber .0.

[teal flame]

should be a little toggle in the lower-right

[honest wave]

i only get the thrown mechanic instead

idk if there's something I'm missing

[carmine bane]

i spent all weekend playing the early release and mannn this shit is gonna ruin my life when it comes out (positive)

[elfin peak]

When it comes out I really wanna port it to one of those little arduino gameboy mimmics

[grand notch]

Clearly, the system that desperately needs a port is the Play Date. Turn the crank one way to Overcharge, turn it the other way to activate your Core.

[lost vigil]

https://tenor.com/view/i-bought-it-purchase-purchased-unboxing-amazon-prime-gif-15438005

[honest wave]

Tried it out outside of instant action and thermal charge does work, idk how to activate overpowered caliber or the Nelson’s boost damage though

[elfin peak]

I haven't worked out how to use reactions yet

[alpine sorrel]

There was a bug where its info wasn't showing up in the tooltip which I just fixed, but it seems to be working for me. It should pop up as a yes/no prompt after you've successfully hit with a weapon. Dragonkid mentioned it was broken for them in their video as well, so I'm wondering if there's so specific case where it's not functioning. What weapon have you put it on?

[honest wave]

I’ve put it on the war pike, I found I could do it outside of instant action but I need to double check if I can do it in instant action, the rest of the damage increasing features I still am unable to use as far as I know

[alpine sorrel]

OPCal should just kick in automatically on the first attack you make with a mount it's applied to (checkbox on the mount); you should be able to see its extra damage in the combat log.

I'll make a note to try and make it more obvious when it kicks in and warning in the character sheet when it's not applied to a weapon

[alpine sorrel]

Ah! Sure enough, I'm also seeing it work via the map editor but not in instant action. Weird! Thanks for helping me narrow it down.

[heady iris]

i was wondering why it wasn't prompting for me as well
even if i have my nelson with just a pike, nothing pops up

love your game btw!🧡
been playing with it since i got it 3 days ago and it's so fun!
this game has the same potential as baldur's gate 3
and i can't wait to see it grow

[heady iris]

i also found that if you get rammed while in symbiosis, this fun bug happens

whether the host is rammed or the goblin, they get pushed and misalign

tbf, rule on goblin say you can still be targeted and hit while in symbiosis
but i have no idea what happens when knockback happens in this case xD
might wanna ask what happens with this interaction in #rules-questions

[alpine sorrel]

Good catch, I think I'll just try to make it invulnerable to movement while attached

Goblin currently in the lead for most-bugs-produced frame

Minotaur is probably in second

[heady iris]

typical of horus

[tepid temple]

Would it really be the Goblin if that weren’t the case?

[icy creek]

I think common interpretation is indeed just that symbiosis'd goblins can't be moved off of the host

[heady iris]

found that mines still affect you when intangible
-my tokugaua is screaming internally-

[worn tiger]

quantum superposition landmines

[heady iris]

that's still minotaur
horus strikes again
at this point i think they are both competing xD

[worn tiger]

i'd forgotten about the placeholder mino, thank you for reminding me of this wonderful thing

[heady iris]

pffffffffffft

oh, this time the bombard made my intangible tokugawa prone
my poor boi is getting quantum bullied xD

luckily the attack roll didn't proc for him

[heady iris]

caltrops from vlad affect intangible as well

[icy creek]

intangible causing rules struggles is tradition

[tepid temple]

My mourning cloak is intangible but I can still see them??? please fix

[heady iris]

i'm sure we'll get a better visual effect in the future for it
in the meantime you can check for this icon in your bar to see if you're intangible or not

[alpine sorrel]

fun fact that's also the icon for invisible 🙂 clearly intangible is pretty low on our priority list of assets to get to

[honest wave]

Oh yeah I had a similar issue where I think features that caused certain unique movements like mourning cloak’s teleport reaction to also misalign them

Also lead to affecting movement later bc it checked both the goblin and the frame it was riding on for valid positions

[hazy ferry]

I finally got the game 🎉
Thanks Olive for making this!

[teal flame]

i mean the MC is literally the only mech in core that has it iirc

[heady iris]

been trying flight a bit
and i found this weird interaction between mourning cloak's core power and flight movement
when stabilize singularity is active and you're flying, morning cloak can teleport just 1 space at a time

[heady iris]

exposed singularity shares this issue too

[alpine sorrel]

something about any teleport+flying I guess? logged, I'll look into it

[heady iris]

thank you!🧡
let me know if i get too annoying
i just happen to stumble on them while trying things xD

[alpine sorrel]

haha you're doing free work for me in playtesting & giving me bug repro conditions, I will almost never complain about that. thanks 🙂

[torpid crane]

not sure if this is a known issue bc discord forum search is stinky but Ace can barrel roll tech attacks (and i'm assuming they don't have Chaff)

also the nostalgia wave that blasted me after clicking Duat 1 and seeing the Scion's First Wish vfx...

[alpine sorrel]

Ach I thought I fixed that one, thx

[torpid crane]

also i might just be being smooth brain but False Idol doesn't seem to work

[alpine sorrel]

That one I think I fixed only yesterday

So hopefully the next build this week should have it work again

[torpid crane]

nice

[torpid crane]

am i missing some valid reason why I can't throw a knife at this hornet, or is it some weird interaction with it hovering inside a wreck?

[alpine sorrel]

good question, that feels like it should be in range. logged.

[torpid crane]

is this the best avenue for bug reports or would you prefer them somewhere else?

[alpine sorrel]

This works fine — it's a little more immediate than the form linked on the main menu, but we'll get to those eventually as well.

[torpid crane]

cool, good to know!

I think Tact 3 might not be flagged as a reaction attack for purposes of hornet Weave or something - I hit a tech attack that triggered tact3, consumed lock on with it, hit for damage, and then the following autopod shot triggered Weave and missed

[cinder island]

the next Iskander sublicense

[lethal leaf]

I actually wrote that.

[heady iris]

oh i sent something in there xD

in that case i may want to share with you all an important bug i think every map creator in this forum should know about

deleting an automatically generated zone in the map creator makes the game crash on my pc
does it do the same for you in your 0.2.5 version?

specifically the zone 1

make sure you save your work often

[cinder island]

oh sorry. that's odd, I don't see it here.

[lethal leaf]

Oh, I was kind of vague. I meant that I wrote a homebrew Iskander alt that placed illusionary mines and could swap them with real ones.

[cinder island]

ohhhhhhhh, neat!

Schrodinger mines

[lethal leaf]

Yep. It's size 1/2 and built with Goblin False Idol tech.

It also gets Overshield when an enemy fails a save against it and it's not its turn.

[slow helm]

canyon_battle

[alpine sorrel]

hell yeah 🤩

[slow helm]

do you delve through the difficult terrain mire of the canyon itself or do you accept the fact you are going to get shot to hell and try to march across the bridges

here's the file for your own fun™️

[tired aurora]

what a beautiful map

[slow helm]

[heady iris]

Now i can have fun shooting my siege cannon and charging my apocalypse gun as the enemy try desperately to reach me xD

[edgy tulip]

has anyone else had the issue of mount retrofitted mounts not showing up in combat?

tried it with missile rack on the retrofitted mount and it didn't show up, this setup should also allow me to barrage with both mounts, then skirmish with one of them no?

[toxic badge]

I don't care about RAW, it feels weird to me that flying characters take damage from caltrops 🤔
separately, maybe a bug - flying characters take damage when entering the caltrop zone, but not when ending their turn there. I haven't tested walking characters.

[flint portal]

Well technically that's not raw since caltrop is dangerous terrain and that is generally ignored by flying characters unless they land in there

[heady iris]

that's a lot of pistols

[edgy tulip]

bonus damage

[heady iris]

you're ready for when raleigh comes out xD

[raw thunder]

just bought myself the game on itchio, excited to try it out

gotta walk the doggo first tho

[lethal leaf]

It's a blast 1, and RAW blasts do reach up.

[alpine sorrel]

but flying should be out of range still — I think I just forgot to have it check elevation

[raw thunder]

intriguing. overcharching while having a goblin linked to you makes both mechs boil to death

(not a complaint, i just found it funny)

[worn tiger]

is that normal symbiosis "goblin takes heat alongside the host" or did something get funky

[alpine sorrel]

something got funky; it should be fixed in the next build

[worn tiger]

oh wait that says 101 heat lmao yeah something got funky

[flint portal]

I believe dangerous and terrain are only on the ground rather than midair

Which is what caltrop does really

[edgy tulip]

oh trust me... the raleigh and i are going to get very familiar with eachother

[flint portal]

But yeah it shouldn’t reach anyway

[alpine sorrel]

Hm, I'm having trouble reproing this. It's possible I accidentally fixed it while doing something else over the last few weeks. Let me know if you still see it in the next build (I should have it ready by next week)

also dunno if you're aware (I only learned like last year) followup aux attacks don't deal bonus damage so the second pistol won't do toku burn, I believe

[edgy tulip]

i mean

more ikwmh stacks

[alpine sorrel]

Re: caltrops: looks like I just had the "ignore elevation" checkbox checked for it, for some reason. Easy fix at least.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think a unit should take damage if it moves onto it and then again immediately after if it ends turn? It should be 1/round by default, right?

[icy creek]

Believe so, yeah

[alpine sorrel]

Just figured this out; it's because flying needs to be in a straight path, and I was checking that condition by seeing if each step between the start and end was in-line and continuous. Teleporting broke that 😅

[heady iris]

absolutely correct
when attacking with and Aux attached to the same mount of the first weapon, the aux doesn't get any bonus damage

[alpine sorrel]

I'm having trouble reproducing this one; my aces are behaving as expected. If you can get a save file on a map/situation where you're seeing it happen consistently, it'd be helpful in narrowing it down.

[alpine sorrel]

Ah, it looks like that mourning cloak has been blinded by a witch in that screenshot; the hornet is outside of LOS.

[torpid crane]

I will look into it later 👍

[heady iris]

i was wondering something
is there a bracing mechanic?
noticed nelson has armor lock plating but i never gor any prompt to brace when i got damaged

[alpine sorrel]

we've tweaked brace to only prompt on taking either at least 50% of your max or if you're about to be structured/stressed by it

otherwise you'd be having to constantly say no to it all the time

and honestly for as much of a trap option it is, I still think it's prompting too much

[icy creek]

maybe armor-lock plating should override that behavior, though, since players very well might want to armor-lock brace even trivial damage in order to gain the "immune to involuntary movement" effect

[alpine sorrel]

I think I do have it add prompts on incoming knockback & grapples

[icy creek]

understood

[heady iris]

is fold knife supposed to teleport you after any hit in this game rather than only when scoring a crit?

[heady iris]

remember how intangible still activates planted mine systems? i figured out it can work the other way around xD
you can throw mines while intangible and hit people from another dimension

[unreal hatch]

5D Chess moment

[heady iris]

i think that i kill with my heart activated way too many times here

my mourning cloak might be a bit too passionate with his guns

gods it's not stopping xD
all my pistols do 2d6 extra damage now

[crimson merlin]

Oh no the gunslinger die didn't reset XD

[heady iris]

not sure still how i got it to happen, i'll do some more tests to check it out
but i guess maybe something to to with overwatch with guns.
i did get the prompt after, asking me to activate IKWMH but still applied the damage when i said no.
alas activating the ability with my next attack did reset the die

[hazy ferry]

I think it does only apply on crit when I was using it?

[heady iris]

ah you're right it works properly

does heavy frame protect you from puppet system?
not sure of that rule and apparently i can't use puppet system on a enemy that has heavy frame

[heady iris]

put annihilator on my death head, pistols on my mourning cloak while all 3 have Tactician 3 for the flanking reaction
but i think flanking activates too many times with mino attacking 2 times in the same turn

flank from overlapping fire does have a 1/round limit, so i was confused so much happened in one turn xD

[alpine sorrel]

wow that was wild lol

I think I fixed this yesterday though with #1079952007915376711 message -- Flank wasn't consuming the unit's reaction properly

[flint portal]

Infinite Reactionworks

[alpine sorrel]

Just figured it out — the bonus damage check was just looking at if the die was at 1, not if we'd actually chosen to use IKWMH as an option. Thanks for finding it!

[heady iris]

you're welcome🧡

[carmine maple]

I'd figure it's understandably low prio, but would configurable brace settings for individual/all pc mechs be a reasonable thing to look into? Since the brace thing came up. Also wow the game is shaping up so well, awesome work!

[alpine sorrel]

We've talked about it and it's be a significant lift (there's no mechanism for having game settings reach down into mechanics yet + the game is already so so topheavy with UI, adding more is a chore) with very marginal benefit.

Generally, I'm strongly against adding options that modify mechanics for any purpose other than accessibility (which includes difficulty). It's almost always better to clear your way by making a game design decision.

[heady iris]

i could really use a tutorial on how to properly use Zones, triggers and the conversation tabs in the combat editor
i'm too lizzy brained to figure them out on my own
but from the sheer possibities i've seen this game is gonna be huge when more people get on it

[alpine sorrel]

Ya I'm waiting until the tools stabilize more before sinking time into making tutorial documentation

I'm excited to see what people make with it.

I think it'd also be cool to make all of the stock campaigns potentially openable in the editors so it kinda self-documents by example.

Which also forces us to make all of the campaign stuff with the player-facing tools

[flint portal]

the truth comes out officially

[burnt frigate]

Infinite Eldworks

[flint portal]

Eld Everywhere System

[burnt frigate]

Also hey

Hello

[flint portal]

Hi Kai

[burnt frigate]

What is that I see in the email update

Seems like someone has been rebaking NPCs

I bet that guy is super cool

[flint portal]

Oh speaking of the rebakes idea

I honestly think its fine

My point of reference for this is the Shadowrun games from Harebrained Scheme which also HEAVILY deviate from the tabletop

[burnt frigate]

In fairness I think if you tried making a tabletop accurate shadowrun game your computer would throw itself in the dumpster out of spite

But yes

Olive also mentions how Baldur's Gate 3 deviates from 5E rules canon

[flint portal]

Really here this is kinda supposed to be a game first, and I think this can make it easier to design it that way as well for people who want to make stuff for it, by and large a lot of the rebakes (ime) have felt more like they require GMs to exercise less self imposed limits, so that I think could translate to making it easier to make stuff for this game too down the line for other people

(I think for example the Hive only having one hive being out at a time instead of maybe a lot of them means you end up with having to consider less issues with that sort of stuff like "what happens if it keeps rolling well and covers the map" and whatnot)

[burnt frigate]

In the context of video game development, one of the elements of the rebake which can be helpful is on the back end, where a lot of tricky stuff has been sanded down or removed. Hidden info seeder mines, cumulative razor swarms, 5 reaction Archers, etc

[quiet meteor]

I also would like to throw my hat in the ring as a random backer that I also think rebaked would be the play. The game would not longer be 100% faithful to the core game, but—as stated—you're not making a VTT. You're making a video game. And rebaked would make the better video game.

[flint portal]

Tbh the game is already not 100% faithful in a bunch of places also, for the better I think

Flying, brace...

[burnt frigate]

I haven't been keeping suuuuuper close tabs on development but I'd be surprised if it was 1-1 faithful in every regard

[quiet meteor]

fair

[burnt frigate]

Some tabletop stuff simply doesn't translate well to an automated GMless system

[alpine sorrel]

The key is that this is the first time we're deviating from core for a game design reason rather than an adaptation feasibility reason.

And my kickstarter insticts say to move carefully when modifying crowdfunding campaign promises. I'm likely being overly cautious, but if nothing else I think people also appreciate seeing the process behind that kind of decision.

I'm almost certain we're gonna end up going with your rebake kai but I wanted to do my due diligence about the redirection

[burnt frigate]

No I demand you let me fight the tier 3 supreme melee extra deadly ultra ronin

[quiet meteor]

Tbf, it does sound like some of this is going to preempt adaptation issues as well

[burnt frigate]

To be normal for a moment (I promise it won't happen again) I agree with doing a due diligence check

I think it's fine, and I suspect most people probably won't have a huge problem

[lone cliff]

I will also put in the opinion that rebake npcs are likely better game design as a game

Lancer NPCs are fairly iffy

And some compositions either require the players to be minmaxing munchkins to get through or for the GM to purposefully sandbag

Which is hard to balance the AI for in a tactics video game

[alpine sorrel]

"I would love to not be required to pump a ton of points into Hull for every build, ty"

[lone cliff]

Like, if a GM accidentally makes overturned NPCs, its fine, they can play suboptimally for a bit

If the level designer makes overtuned NPCs, youre forced to either redesign the encounter or have had the AI be purposefully stupid for all cases

Also as another thing

I liked in Reverse Collapse reading the enemy info sheet tells you their priorities when they make actions

For example a scout would first target units it can kill, then 2nd priority is units with the lowest evasion

While a sniper targets units it can kill and then units with the lowest % health

[burnt frigate]

To be clear for those who aren't very familiar with the project, rebake NPCs very rarely diverge from the CRB versions in ways that make them fundamentally different to fight. The Assault is still a rifle guy with a brace, the Hive is still a guy who puts razor swarms down and force moves you, etc

[lone cliff]

Yeh thats what i gathered

[burnt frigate]

It isn't really a case of "wow who am I fighting?"

[lone cliff]

The rebake has bespoke grunts so im already all for it lmfao

[sand goblet]

gonna be the person to put her hand up and say that the whole "being a good neighbour to the tabletop game" thing is valuable

I have no particular opinion on the Rebake NPCs (I've not read them properly and likely won't until I'm done writing first party stuff) but it's for sure going to be confusing when new players who've arrived at the game via the LT pipeline encounter the regular NPCs

my ideal solution from a player perspective would be to have a toggle that allowed you to pick which ones were in a particular combat, but obviously that requires twice the implementation work

(though I suppose many core NPCs are already done at this point?)

[lone cliff]

We already have fairly significantly divergences from the core book in mechanics, tbh

Like Flying, for example

[sand goblet]

I'm not here to debate this

[lone cliff]

I mean looking at the rebake most of the stuff is as kai said keeping the primary mechanics or feel of the NPCs

Theyre usually just, better designed lol

[lone cliff]

I would rather the game be a well-designed video game over being accurate. If theres friction with learning the tabletop, well, thats just the nature of coming in with an adaption or spin off property? Olive has already focused on being real accurate with the rest of the important stuff like the actual licenses and mechs, which id consider more important than the NPCs

[sand goblet]

stop replying to me, I just told you that I'm not here to debate this

[lone cliff]

I deliberately did not ping you????

I was just using your comment to talk my own points

[distant kiln]

Hey guys I just wanna make sure I'm not losing my marbles. Why can I Skirmish with a weapon twice in one turn? I thought you couldn't take the same quick action twice.

Am new to Lancer in general so this might just be a me misunderstanding thing.

But it seems like I can just attack with any two weapons I want in a turn.

Plz let me know if dingus

[smoky glacier]

lancer tactics, as an adaptational change, implements Barrage as "Skirmish with two different weapons"

[distant kiln]

Interesting.

[slow helm]

working name for this one is 'big dam heroes'

[smoky glacier]

this is because of how they generally handle quick vs full actions. there's more info further up the thread / in update messages iirc

[distant kiln]

Right I imagine it can be confusing to try to lay that out in a way that's easy to parse.

Well thank you.

Okay so this might just be a me thing but I feel like that's significantly different from Lancer enough that I think NPC changes is comparatively a super minor change.

So I think the Rebake is fine, personally.

[lone cliff]

Yeah

Honestly i think most players are unaware that you cant take 2 skirmish actions at once normally

Especially since like, quick tech actions dont have that same limitation

[flint portal]

hey so I think we need to take a lil bit of a step back here, I wanna clarify something real quick which is that I don't think we should necessarily try and argue why the other option is best to someone who explained why they think they prefer their option, just generally.
Its for the best i think if, when someone says they're not here to argue their position, we don't try and argue with them, let folks express their thoughts on this, after all folks were asked about their thoughts on this, so its only fair to let them express their thoughts on it too.

[slow helm]

this map might have some issue moving on big chassis

but here's a map about fighting over a giant dam

[worn tiger]

I think the Rebakes would be preferable over the Core NPCS

[slow helm]

i kind of agree with kat, personally

rebake stuff is quality but maintaining core game compatibility makes lt a very easy way to sell people on playing lancer, the tabletop

[lone cliff]

Okay but i wasnt arguing with kat, which is why i specifically did not ping her, and was only sharing my own opinion on the same subject.

[flint portal]

I think when its a reply to someone its hard to see it as something other than a rebuttal or argument with someone else, so its understandable why it was read that way, i'd rather we move on from here to avoid monopolizing this space with this but if you have further questions def send me a dm (or another mod if you'd prefer) okay?

[lone cliff]

Imo given most people will play lancer ttrpg as players and the rebake stuff is mostly gm facing i feel keeping the actual mechs and licenses as accurate to the core book as possible weighs more in terms of attracting people to lancer ttrpg from LT, which olive is already doing.

You could put like a disclaimer that the LT NPCs are using a modified ruleset in the game perhaps, like in the level/encounter creator, since people using those would be more likely to do Lancer GMing

Im also honestly just thinking from a coding perspective

Cause corebook NPC design foibles can be smoothed over by a good GM

With a tactics game, you by necessity require a one size fits all solution for every possible enemy permutation

If you accidentally make a busted enemy comp, you cant deliberately sandbag the opfor gameplay, only modify the comp

[stable smelt]

you'd at least prefer to not have to special-case potential random generation to go 'okay don't throw steel jaw on random veterans' or like, similar optionals that exist as part of NPC toolkits to let the GM fuck over specific players.

(and would be really frustrating to have generate randomly)

[worn tiger]

CRB operator is a menace with a human GM to apply brakes, I do not want to experience the No Brakes All Range 20 Kiting Computer-Controlled Operator, that sounds like hell

[stable smelt]

(side note: the rebakes don't touch all templates so this issue won't not exist if they're implemented over CRB npcs, but it's probably at least mitigated a bit.)

[icy creek]

I also would prefer baseline NPCs over rebake; I don't think implementing rebakes are worth sacrificing the accuracy of adaptation. Specifically I don't really think the NPC base kits are flawed enough to justify the change, and at least personally I would find it a bit offputting for all the NPCs to be using Slightly Uncanny versions of their base kits.

I'm not generally opposed to changes made to account for change in medium, but when the rest of the game is quite faithful to the original I'm not convinced this is worth deviating on

[slow helm]

i am simply of the opinion that authenticity to core Lancer is important in making what is likely going to be the only Lancer video game to exist

[mild jay]

I think it might be easy to underestimate just how significant the judgement of a human gm is in how the game feels to play in its tabletop format. Computers are dumb in a lot of ways (and can almost be too smart in others), and making them feel like both a fair and challenging opponent isn’t a trivial task. For a video game ai you basically have to design a system that does its best to determine what will feel best to play against (a subjective quality) given its objective understanding of the game state, without the system having any understanding of what even “feels good.” For any given game I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there were times where redesigning one of the ai’s pawns itself may yield better results for improving game feel than trying to change the ai system

Or at least, better results relative to effort spent

[alpine sorrel]

I'm not strongly moved by the authenticity-for-authenticity's sake argument; both shadowrun returns and the original baldur's gates made bigger changes than we're dealing with here to the tabletop rules and they panned out fine.

So I'd be curious to hear what about it feels important to you. Mostly compatibility?

[slow helm]

just about every CRPG in existence makes major changes to the core of the system they represent; baldurs gate 3 is nowhere near tabletop-accurate 5e, wrath of the righteous is a pretty trimmed down version of pf1e, etc. etc. these games are using their systems as a vehicle to tell a greater story in the setting, and are willing to play with the rules of the system in service to the cause of making that story somewhat more accessible.

the thing that sets LT aside from these in my mind is that it isn't quite as focused on such. I'm looking forward to the campaign and intend to make one of my own once everything is bolted down, but-- and forgive me if I am missing the memo here, this is simply how I view it at the current-- it feels as though the primary goal is to make an adaptation of Lancer with a narrative campaign included, not to use Lancer as a vehicle for the campaign to be told. it feels a bit more Solasta, a bit less Baldurs Gate 3, if that makes sense (which it might not because Solasta is the red-headed stepchild of 5e video games).

[stable smelt]

it should be emphasized, also, that a lot of core npc options, and even some entire npc classes(operator!) are nightmare saw traps for players that are only actually mitigated by deliberate sandbagging.
some of which can be replicated by an ai system but not all of which can.

[slow helm]

essentially (forgive me, it's 4 AM):

the way I see the game (as a completely different person) calls more for faithfulness to the original source material. As absolutely killer of a CRPG as I think it'd make, this isn't a CRPG, and comparing it to CRPGs is a bit messy due to the narrative focus of that genre compared to the tactical wargamey focus of LT.

I would expect the Rebake to exist as a mod, and probably a very popular one (because God knows I fully expect basically everything that isn't CRB to end up modded in eventually), but LT as a faithful adaptation of the core rulebook provides a very good template for anybody who wants to do anything with Lancer.

[alpine sorrel]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'll think about em. It's past 1am for me too, I gotta log off. 😅

[fickle pecan]

fwiw I dont think shadowrun returns is an inaccurate adaptation so much as its not an adaptation at all? im pretty sure its just its own game

like it uses the same stat names but thats like, part of the aesthetic of shadowrun rather than adapting it as a rules element from any particular edition aiui

[wraith cradle]

My two cents on this is that there are definitely some mechanics in the rebake that I'd be a fan of for Tactics; the rebake Rainmaker, for example, seems like it'd be a lot easier to work with when designing maps and NPC behavior. The javelins want a GM to have a strategy when it comes to placing them (often influenced by the map/sitrep) if you're not just doing the combo with them, and I don't know if you could effectively emulate that with the AI.

[tepid temple]

Small but I don't think insignificant bit of friction for Olive to consider: people might be a bit miffed that that their out-of-game references for the NPCs that they already have (PDF/compcon/hardback) can't be used and their equivalent locked behind buying another product

(Please don't take this as me saying Kai doesn't deserve to be paid for his work)

[lone cliff]

Is the rebake gonna be paid for??

My understanding was its a free product lol, i could be wrong

Also i assume theres gonna be an in game encyclopedia, which would alleviate some of that friction

Im always for more in game encyclopedias

Esp if theyre in-universe style

Like one of those ww2 identification guides

[tepid temple]

@lone cliff

[lone cliff]

Ooh ty for the info

[mild jay]

The core rulebook is already not a reliable guideline for playing the video game just by virtue of existing changes necessary for a video game adaptation. And that’s the free version that more of the Lancer Tactics player base will have access to than the paid crb the npcs are in

[tidal tulip]

• Will the game be fun with a perfectly rational AI using corebook NPCs? There's a lot of bullying that can easily occur.
• Kai's rebake being a paid resource is a significant barrier, only if people were gonna use other sources to play this videogame. How many of you pull out your DnD Monster Manual when playing Baldur's Gate 3??

[tired aurora]

I mean, if every stats is right there in the game, then there wont be any problem for the game. How the effect of including that will have on the rebake is a different question

[hazy ferry]

Is it possible to choose what units show up?

[elfin peak]

Just read the change notes

Here's hoping Linux version won't be too hard, godot is generally pretty good with cross platform builds.