#Legionnaire

1 messages Ā· Page 2 of 1

solid parrot
#

Put every single backer key in a Google doc and send it to all the backers

#

Make them all fight for which is theirs

#

except me, you can just give me mine

north roost
#

Okay but like unironically that could work

boreal pebble
#

Yeah until someone takes more than one key lol. I'd like to trust but 451 is a lot of potential, safer just to wait

teal cliff
#

oh hey i didn't know thi channel existed despite backing it, hello friends, commenting so its on my forum thread list

distant schooner
#

Same haha, I'm looking forward to this a ton

polar pagoda
#

Yes yes welcome to the thread

teal abyss
#

I wish I had something more productive to do but honestly at this point I don't

lancer-fall-waiting.png
leaden pine
#

Ndisshsuxubeusuxbda

polar pagoda
#

Trapped in purgatory

leaden pine
#

In the grim darkness of Itch there is only delay

royal mesa
#

My name is Vex, and I approve this shitpost.

nocturne goblet
#

DJDKDKDKDK

vernal bronze
#

the w a i t i n g

teal cliff
#

I'm guessing this is not a situation where you can just

"
Hello itch,

Just checking for a status update on this approval.

Let me know if there's any additional info that you need.

Thank you,
[Kat]
"

#

every single day

teal abyss
#

Unlikely to help, the stuff I found made it clear that sending additional emails does nothing, they just either get appended to your existing ticket or create a new one at the end of the queue

#

I do not expect my shitposting on social media to help either but I am trying everything I reasonably can

teal cliff
#

valid

#

The dynamic is different on my end, but I've had some success knocking on a, say, technician's inbox with increasing frequency in my line of work

royal mesa
#

Kat, there is an alternative

#

It's what I'm planning to do for my Kickstarter, which will be... onerous, without a fucking doubt

#

But itch allows you to generate a bunch of release keys

teal abyss
#

if you're about to suggest what I think you're going to suggest

royal mesa
#

You could send them to each KS backer individually

teal abyss
#

this was, unfortunately, my plan

#

I hate it but it may be our only recourse at this point

royal mesa
#

It's what I plan to do for IGF

#

Especially after this

teal abyss
sleek monolith
#

... I suppose it's also something folks couldn't help lighten the load with

teal abyss
#

no, absolutely not

#

the data privacy implications alone would be fucking nightmarish

wary lava
#

well, we'll just cheer for you and show our appreciation for Book when we get it.

royal mesa
#

Like none of this is your fault, Kat. itch.io should do better.

wary lava
#

^

past socket
#

Hey, I am happy to wait. If Kat keeps posting to their social media like this,

#

I'm all about the wait.

teal abyss
#

I appreciate all your kind words a lot

sleek monolith
#

Thing is, I dont legit care when I get it. I backed for content, not the existential stress of rushing

surreal owl
#

given how itch's payout waits have been on the long side lately, I wouldn't be surprised they're straining on the manual processes

past socket
#

The only value to getting this sooner rather than later is so that I can roll up to my players tonight with yet another rules change based on more Lancer content I bought, and watch them die a little inside.

If this doesn't come out for a few more months, my players are just being spared suffering. So I guess that is probably a good thing if you like players.

sleek monolith
#

Also I one of those people. I'll back something, smile thinking about getting it, then uh, be irrationally angry as to who the hell is emailing me or sending me packages 6 months later.

I dont care who the IRS sends, I'm not paying taxes! (If you know the reference, good job)

#

I will just full blank-brain forget I back stuff

teal cliff
#

backing things that are good is like sending gifts to your self if you're forgetful like me

sleek monolith
#

For normal people it must be nice. But I'm in a weird trauma loop lol. I legit assume most packages are things intended to hurt me. And will poke them with a stick for a bit to make sure they arent sus. It's terrible.

Must be a cool feeling for others though šŸ™‚ hopefully my therapy keeps working.

#

Emails I just assume are scams. But I'll read em anyway then get surprised

ivory jetty
#

I know I missed being a backer myself but another +1 for encouraging you to not get caught in an anxiety loop about not sending out keys promptly. Folks understand, you're doing the best you can.

teal cliff
#

I for one wish it be known that I am applying 0 pressure, it'll get to me when it gets to me

teal abyss
#

I appreciate all of this, it makes me feel a bit better.

Sadly for me this is about more than just the social pressure of fulfilling a kickstarter (though that is a factor). I've not been hugely public about this but I'm also being evicted, on top of dealing with regular medical/disability stuff. Now, I built in a lot of redundancy to make sure the project would actually release in the best state possible despite all this (you get used to it after a while) and that redundancy allowed me to deal with a lot of issues. However if this continues to be unresolved past the end of the month it's increasingly going to cause problems for me on a personal level as it starts to clash with other sources of work and stress.

I expect I'll be up until at least 2am every night this week, at this rate. I've already had to start cancelling plans just to sit by the computer. Even frivolous shit like re-dyeing my hair or playing any game that lasts more than an hour, just in case. But soon I'm going to have to start dealing with arcane bureaucracy and packing and stuff that I can't easily defer. I have limited mental energy at the best of times and I'm under a lot more financial pressure than I was, so I really need this to go out the door sooner rather than later.

All that is to say that I really need this to go right and this is really, really fucking frustrating.

ivory jetty
#

we're excited, not demanding

teal abyss
#

I'll sit and individually email out 541 keys if I have to

ivory jetty
#

that's real, oof.

rare shard
#

don't feel like you have to is my recommendation

vital plume
#

I mean...

#

You could use a script/service for it?

teal abyss
#

I've started looking in to those

vital plume
#

I could help with that if needed!

#

I've got a lot of experience making computers go brrrr with funni words

#

In benevolent and malevolent ways!

past socket
#

That's an incredibly rough place to be. šŸ–¤ Best wishes Kat.

teal abyss
#

Anyway I don't want to focus on my personal issues right now. The book is ready, and it's excellent. I want to get it in people's hands.

#

I'll ask for help if I need it

vital plume
#

...just saw this, apologies

teal abyss
#

To change the subject a little bit, is everyone getting on with the LCP okay? (that one bug with comp/con's filtering system notwithstanding)

#

particularly I wanted to check the backgrounds were working okay. They've been done for a while but they only actually went into the LCP recently, so they're the one part that hasn't been through all my testers

past socket
#

I'm largely running my game in Foundry these days, and hadn't popped the LCP into that yet. I'll try it and see what it does.

teal abyss
#

Oh neat, Foundry has an LCP import? (this shows my ignorance, I only run games via Roll20)

lucid gate
#

Oh man

#

Foundry is so good for Lancer

wary lava
#

yep!

#

I, uh, my foundry is due for a good cleaning of my LCps.

lucid gate
#

yeah me too

#

there are about 6 LCPs I don't use at all

past socket
#

Oh Kat, Foundry has changed my Lancer forever.

#

I used to roll20, and minus some annoying linguistic differences (tiles? I put art in with the tile button!?)

#

It's like having a shared comp/con for all the players and the GMs.

#

Lancer is the best supported Foundry module I have ever experienced.

lucid gate
#

But it is absolutely amazing

#

NPCs are build with the flick of a hand

#

You can aim and control all resource aspects

teal abyss
#

Sounds very cool. My encounters with Foundry in the past have all been pretty positive so I'd been meaning to check it out, I'm just a victim of inertia because I've been using roll20 for what feels like forever

lucid gate
#

oof

#

yeah i feel you

teal abyss
#

oh wow, like ten years now

past socket
past socket
# lucid gate Ok I wouldn't go that far

Haha! Okay, fair. I might be hard on the sell, but those simple NPC builds and the retrograde minis built into the core npcs... Well, it feeds my addiction to maps over enemy construction.

lucid gate
#

well

#

There are some other amazing Foundry Modules that in my opinion take the cake

#

PF2e as an example

#

But Yeah LancerFVTT is still absolutely amazing

#

sorry at this point im just gushing

#

not really used to writing in english lol

wary lava
#

I come from a different background as I started DMing with Tabletop Simulator, went to Roll20 and then to Foundry/3D Canvas.

vital plume
#

I started with fucking physical media tbh

#

Foundry is leaps and bounds ahead of that shit because I can ACTIALLY KEEP TRACK OF THINGS

teal abyss
#

I'll be honest I still prefer pen and paper to a digital tabletop but I am old and weird

wary lava
#

I used to RL but my pals moved to online and we're in middle of a campaign with two players that have kids, so online is more convenient.

#

so we're online now

#

pandemic wrecked a lot of social activities.

lucid gate
#

but especially with lancer I wouldn't want to crawl around the desk with a tape ruler

past socket
#

How is Lancer, pen and paper?

#

Never tried it.

lucid gate
#

Chaotic

#

But that is my personal impression

teal abyss
#

It's great, I love it

#

we use big chessex hex mats and these awesome hex prisms that one of the group made from plastic for terrain/cover

teal cliff
#

I'd run my maps a bit smaller for irl Lancer I think

#

25x25 on average

past socket
#

Heh. I just ran my first GM mistake Too Big Map two weeks ago.

teal cliff
#

My mainstay is 35x25

lucid gate
#

I use Lancer Map Generator from Interpoint Station

past socket
#

I picked that up, and am going back to those dimensions, yeah.

#

I made a choice for map flavor, and the flavor I chose was miserable.

lucid gate
#

I saw some amazing maps on #lancer-vtt

#

Using Isometric VIew

#

Blew me away

vital plume
lucid gate
#

Day 3 of hoping that Itch.io will do anything at all

novel ocean
wary lava
#

Itch, please

#

I want book , with cool words and great art

reef crater
#

def sad itch is being so bad about this, but def also no pressure on actual creators working on stuff

teal abyss
#

(also, morning all, here's hoping today's the day!)

sleek monolith
#

fingers crossed

vernal bronze
#

šŸŽµi belieeeeeeeve šŸŽµ

sleek monolith
#

california business time would be popping in around 11am my time.

worn geyser
#

any way backers can also harangue itch.io on social media and drive visibility?

teal abyss
#

I feel like I've harassed their poor social media person enough but I can't stop you from retweeting me or making tweets of your own.

#

(or toots, or whichever other social media platform you prefer)

#

However!

#

I am currently putting together a mailchimp campaign, and I would like a volunteer if anyone is willing to be a guinea pig

#

(this is a Risky roll, on a 10 or higher you receive your download key via email, on a 19 or lower it does not work first try and you will get a bunch of emails)

#

ideally someone who has a bit of spare time right now since I don't know how long futzing about with this is going to take

worn geyser
#

i have about two hours to spare

teal abyss
#

phenomenal. can you DM me your email address that you used to back the campaign?

sleek monolith
#

I am also fine to be a test subject, I just started like, playing a vidja game out of boredome cause I shouldn't be awake

ocean lantern
#

I can also volunteer to be a test subject if they are still required

teal abyss
#

fingers crossed if this test goes okay we should be good

#

Okay so now I'm waiting on Mailchimp support as well

worn geyser
#

at this point printing and mailing the book might be faster

#

okay, so this book is being distributed as a PDF - we're already relying on the kindness of backers to not widely distribute it to people who would otherwise pay for it. Why not circumvent personalised download links and send a google drive link or similar via Kickstarter update?

sleek monolith
#

I can say there is one downside to this, as it's happened to me, but god forbid someone backed, but let's say, lost their PC data in the future, try to go back and get their copy, and the google drive / dropbox is just gone

teal abyss
#

Well, aside from the obvious issues that would cause (kickstarter updates are public, not private, and I have kickstarter backers who didn't actually back at a high enough tier to get the book), it is useful to have download links associated with storefronts like itch because this decentralises where data is stored and makes it easier for people to come back to a library they already own. In addition I would potentially like to distribute some free rewards like an art pack at some point, and it's easier to handle that via itch.

worn geyser
#

that's definitely true, but I'd hope the itch.io links would have been sorted by then
the google drive idea was intended as a stopgap measure

ocean lantern
#

What about using Kickstarter messaging?

worn geyser
#

that would have to be done individually, all 500+ backers

ocean lantern
#

True

sleek monolith
#

which just goes back if we're dong that, manually making 500+ emails was already on the table and also dreaded as a nuclear option

worn geyser
#

oh i see, updates are public

#

damn, I thought they were private

#

the first key's gone out!

#

:D

#

hopefully that means the rest can be sent soon

teal abyss
sleek monolith
#

wooters

rigid canopy
#

YAAAS

worn geyser
#

ooh, subalterns are cool

teal abyss
worn geyser
#

I could see this (or more likely the neural bridge) being used for some Sonnie's Edge type play

worn geyser
teal abyss
#

(judging by the test email delivery may take thirty minutes or more)

worn geyser
#

important note for anyone running straight to the Gear section like me: scroll a couple pages up and read "Playing NHP Pilots" first - this section introduces a few concepts that are used in the gear listings.

#

obviously the real answer is "GM decides", but can the Neural Bypass be used with flash-cloned meat puppets in addition to sentient beings?

teal abyss
#

Flash clones are typically sentient (which is why using them is ethically and legally dubious) but yeah if you've got a flash clone at hand you could install one. Note that the neural bypass is designed in such a way as it requires consent from the person who has the implant.

worn geyser
#

oh, then what's the LANCER terminology for "braindead clone"?

brittle ginkgo
#

I can confirm I just got my email and am downloading the PDF as we speak

sleek monolith
#

I has the launch codes (I gots email)

polar pagoda
#

I imagine meat puppets can be achieved by having a clone that doesnā€™t have a brain (cybernetic implant like a computer) but thatā€™s not really a clone I suppose

teal abyss
#

holy crap that was so much faster than the test email

polar pagoda
worn geyser
#

fair enough

sleek monolith
#

That is like... a thing HA does isn't it? Don't they have a bunch of clones with no brains and then they put copies of nhp in there or something

polar pagoda
#

Not quite

sleek monolith
#

nods I am wrong quite often with my memory šŸ™‚

brittle ginkgo
worn geyser
#

I was envisioning an NHP using a Neural Bridge'd meat puppet rather than a metal subaltern as a way to avoid detection as an artificial person a la Sonnie's Edge

polar pagoda
#

I think thatā€™s theoretically possible it will likely involve more computer parts

leaden pine
#

I dont think Lancer has the capacity to clone wholesale clones with absolutely no subjectivity

brittle ginkgo
#

take with a mountain of salt as I need to double check what braindead actually means medically

sleek monolith
polar pagoda
#

Wouldnā€™t exactly be a clone I imagine.
Some sort of meat body thing with a nervous system replaced by a computer

teal abyss
#

Yeah, it's theoretically possible but you'll have to hash it out with your GM as to how that actually works in practice

leaden pine
#

Tho I imagine you can clone individuals organs and assemble them

polar pagoda
#

Eclipse phase pod style

worn geyser
brittle ginkgo
#

RA would definitely be eyeing said interaction with suspicion

worn geyser
leaden pine
polar pagoda
#

Would they?

#

That depends on how it works

polar pagoda
worn geyser
brittle ginkgo
#

still flying pretty close to the sun if it's full meat puppetry, afaik

teal abyss
polar pagoda
#

Teotl exists

#

So like smh ra can do what they want

brittle ginkgo
#

Teotl?

worn geyser
polar pagoda
#

The two human one unshackled nhp gestalt

#

In the long rim

brittle ginkgo
#

I need to reread that

ocean lantern
#

Plus how omniscient is Ra?

polar pagoda
#

Ra is not the arbitrating force on what is and is not possible

polar pagoda
worn geyser
brittle ginkgo
#

man I'm very misinformed about RA then

worn geyser
#

I'd argue a stock NHP is MORE posthuman than that situation

brittle ginkgo
#

I shall re-educate myself in that regard

ocean lantern
#

So stuff that would outright get a smiting is possible, just adds the extra narrative wrinkle of needing to avoid the attention of Ra

polar pagoda
#

Yeah exactly

worn geyser
#

i mean, I'd imagine that mass control of subalterns is what gets you smited

#

that seems sufficiently posthuman

polar pagoda
#

Thatā€™s if you get caught

#

A guy turned into a giant swarm of nanites

#

And ra didnā€™t show up

#

Hell he even came back to life

worn geyser
#

also note that NHPs appear to be the favoured spawn of RA and don't get smited for being immortal

polar pagoda
#

Or something

#

We donā€™t know what ras opinions on nhps are

#

Considering they were made and they left

worn geyser
#

"passive approval" seems to be it

polar pagoda
#

I donā€™t think you can say for certain

worn geyser
#

if RA had a problem with NHPs, surely we'd have seen something by now

polar pagoda
#

Whether itā€™s approval or simply not caring

#

At the same time ra might just not care at all

worn geyser
#

yeah, hence passive approval rather than active approval

polar pagoda
#

But you donā€™t know that

teal abyss
#

To clarify: strictly as written Player_Two does not work on braindead clones or corpses because it requires the person with the implant to be willing. On a personal level, I chose to write it this way because to me the alternative is absolute nightmare fuel and the implications are horrifying. But obviously in actual play you can go with whatever your GM is prepared to allow.

sleek monolith
#

aww my besty is so happy

#

Thanks for giving me the opportunity for the best bday gift Kat

ocean lantern
#

Yeah, having something that Ra would disapprove of just adds something for the GM to work with narratively

teal abyss
#

no worries! I'm just happy it's gone out successfully

worn geyser
sleek monolith
#

anyway, for everyone here, the mention of Cassidy "Mirror" was a friend's PC and now it's canon in all our worlds since so many people try to play NHP I don't expect to ever NOT use Legionaire

polar pagoda
#

Having ā€œbutton that lets you get controlled like a droneā€ is always terrifying

leaden pine
#

its good horror

polar pagoda
#

So itā€™s a safe bet to keep it consensual

ocean lantern
#

Also got my link!

worn geyser
#

i guess Eclipse Phase has inured me to the horrors of transhuman abuse lol, I assumed that sort of thing was already possible with some of the tech in LANCER

ocean lantern
#

I am pretty sure it is possible, just that it doesn't get talked aobut

worn geyser
#

yeah pretty much

#

i assumed the same thing for Legionnaire's stuff

ocean lantern
#

(and anyone that is caught doing it gets a swift corrective laser to the face)

worn geyser
#

Union, Fuck Yeah!

#

DOJ/HR: Interstellar Police

#

An enterprising research group somehow received clearance to release a small number of these clones to military commanders on the strict understanding that at no point should data be gathered on their operation; and if it were, the data should definitely not focus on the lineā€™s idiosyncratic manifestations; and if it did, the results should absolutely not be forwarded on to the researchers.

#

LOL

#

interesting - what's the intended use case for Seventh Gate?

#

it seems more like a narrative-focused ability with niche gameplay application, much like castigate ?

#

oh, wait

#

that says CLEAR two heat, not GAIN

leaden pine
#

A devious Lick

teal abyss
#

Fun fact, in an earlier playtest Shadowcloaked used to have a heat cost, but people were taking it specifically to generate heat for nuc cav.

polar pagoda
#

Lmao

#

The NuCav people canā€™t be trusted

#

With ANY reactor heat

#

(Iā€™m nucav people)

teal abyss
#

It's true we are awful, I for instance abuse Spaceborn EVA to get my Enkidu in the danger zone

brittle ginkgo
#

man all the jargon within the Eidolon section makes all of my neurons fire

#

it makes me feel smart knowing I somewhat know what's being said

surreal owl
#

Eyy, the mailchimp email came through for me! Glad you found a bypass for itchā€™s mailing service

polar pagoda
#

The mail gibbon is pleased with you

#

You will survive the winter

surreal owl
#

(Also holy shit itā€™s surreal to see that my template was used for the layout of something this professional-looking šŸ˜µā€šŸ’«)

polar pagoda
#

Your layout is so helpful valk

#

Iā€™ve used it for my stuff as well

teal abyss
#

the footer in particular was an absolute lifesaver but there were tons of other really useful components

polar pagoda
#

It makes stuff look so nice so thank you for creating it

glass sapphireBOT
#

what can ya do when its top notch

Valk, Who Believes in You (he)ā€„ā†©ļø

[Reply to:](#1057955574949625948 message) (Also holy shit itā€™s surreal to see that my template was used for the layout of something this profeā€¦

rigid canopy
#

I seriously wish I hadn't missed this Kickstarter. Can't wait to buy it off itch!

teal abyss
#

Soon. I'm gonna go do some self care for a bit and then providing there are no reported issues from backers it'll go live for everyone else

worn geyser
#

what sort of issues should we be looking for?

teal abyss
#

Hard to say, we're in unknown unknowns territory right now.

rigid canopy
teal abyss
#

that's cool, I know šŸ™‚

#

honestly I'm very excited to share it with the world too

worn geyser
#

so far all i have noticed is the gear section thing, but that's only an issue if you turn straight there without reading sections before it

main moon
#

Just checking in to say that I was able to redeem my copy with no issue, absolutely beautiful work, canā€™t wait to dig into it later!!

teal abyss
#

yay! :3

robust shadow
#

yayyyy it's out

#

can't wait to get this once it goes fully live

worn geyser
#

love how the intro dances around "let's talk about the slave caste tom wrote into Union"

teal abyss
#

I had one other question, actually

#

are there any backers who have not received their keys yet?

sleek monolith
#

i can only say I got mine

worn geyser
teal abyss
#

yes it is and I will do that later when I update again, but right now I don't have the mental energy

lament saffron
#

hey there, reading now about the nature of NHPs and I have a question - does an NHP even need any sort of physical hardware in order to exist? Like, supposing a casket is destroyed in such a way that the "corpus" it sustained is unwound and allows the NHP to escape, instead of being destroyed. Is that NHP still "out there" in blinkspace somewhere, unable to interact with physical reality? If they rebuild its casket, will it be naturally attracted to the blinkspace geometry it enforces and re-inhabit it like a possesing ghost or will new clone of the NHP be mandatory?

teal abyss
#

That's an interesting question. Part of the issue is that the hardware of the casket fundamentally acts as the supporting substrate for the space within. If it's destroyed, the space collapses and typically there's no way for that space to survive (though with advanced tech and preparation, perhaps? hard to say).

#

An answer to the question would depend extremely heavily on what metaphysical principle was used that allowed the NHP to escape.

#

If the Mondragon Axiomatic were fully reversible you might be able to take an NHP out of its casket but that's something I've not touched on

lament saffron
#

well I'm trying to also understand if Deimosian entities are essentially "a-historical". Like, does an NHP subjectivity exist a priori from its initial expression in hardware?

sleek monolith
worn geyser
#

my understanding is that the casket is just a portal to the blinkspace pocket containing the NHP's functional components, and that if the casket goes kablooie then the NHP is lost forever in blinkspace and you have to mail-order a new casket linked to a new clone

sleek monolith
#

(also then there's like post-creation NHP like in ||No Room For A Wallflower|| but whether or not ||beggar one is it's own nhp entity or just more literally a split of O/K is unknown||)

#

wallflower spoilers

worn geyser
#

blinkspace cannot in and of itself interact with realspace unless something deliberately provokes an intersection between the two, and just like realspace blinkspace has few things capable of doing so

lament saffron
worn geyser
#

canonical lore does not specify

#

my personal take is either/or depending on the circumstances of the NHP's structure

teal abyss
#

I think as far as we are aware, those NHPs are dead and gone, but such a thing is inherently not falsifiable.

past socket
#

Today, on this day in Space, itches were scratched by chimps.

sleek monolith
#

at least at my own table, it's less about construction and more about how the casket was removed or damaged. Big enough rounds will kill the NHP at least in my own tables. Mechs have big guns. But if a bunch of just, guys, with crowbars smash a casket? the NHP is probably just, out there vibing.

worn geyser
lament saffron
#

it's just a very sad thing to think about, ghosts of dead NHPs forever floating in the Blink unable to interact with physicality. Maybe they don't need to anymore - maybe they don't even miss it. But from my own limited perspective this loss of connection is kind of heartbreaking

worn geyser
#

yeah it sounds fucking awful

#

just left there to cascade over and over into a messy blinkspace tumour

teal abyss
#

Ultimately the paracausal nature of NHP subjectivities means it's impossible to rule out.

lament saffron
#

oh I don't think they cascade, they're beyond that at that point

sleek monolith
#

@lament saffron well you could do what I do. The blink is just like another other plane of space, and I have toyed with and planned out an entire adventure involved in getting hang time in the blink where the players will see that there are many NHP and each has it's own little sphere of influence in NHP created metavaults. Well, ones that ONLY exist in the blink as their own little kingdoms

worn geyser
#

aren't fully unshackled NHPs described as still being in a state of cascade?

lament saffron
#

iirc cascade is NHPs trying to think themselves out of their shackles, going "crazy" as a result. an unshackled NHP is not the same as an NHP in cascade

teal abyss
#

In essence, cascade is a process that connects the state of being shackled and the state of being unshackled.

worn geyser
#

my understanding of "cascade" is "not fully shackled"

teal abyss
#

etymologically the word is related to the concept of a cascading failure in systems design

sleek monolith
#

and it is often traumatic to go through

worn geyser
#

maybe it is from In Golden Flame where vex calls Triple-Point cascaded

past socket
#

There are also, if I recall, other ways to be unshackled without cascading.

lament saffron
worn geyser
#

i wish tom had been more specific about this stuff lmao, everyone has questions

lament saffron
#

nah the looseness of the lore is what makes it good!

#

"I don't know, shit's weird. Make up your own explanation" = paracausality in a nutshell

worn geyser
#

my personal preference is for the system to follow consistient behaviours based on simple rules, much like hatsune miku's mistborn series

#

even though the allomancy system was solvable, it didn't make it any less cool or terrifying for someone to do something like double gold

surreal owl
worn geyser
#

šŸ˜¤

past socket
#

I giggle That is fair, and I can understand the appeal for sure. Lancer goes the other creative direction for sure.

teal abyss
#

Referring to an unshackled NHP as "cascaded" (in the sense of the past participle adjective), still has some descriptive value in certain circumstances I think, to contrast an NHP that was once shackled from one that had never been.

worn geyser
past socket
#

I find it allows me to perform collaborative lore building myself, but that it also reflects how I approach most ttrping.

#

It's not an easy setting sometimes, lore wise.

surreal owl
worn geyser
#

imo Eclipse Phase had the right amount of known unknowns - the stuff left unanswered are things that will almost never have a bearing on a campaign

lament saffron
polar pagoda
#

There was plenty of stuff left unanswered that could totally have bearings

#

Though Ep is also a simulationist game while lancer is not. Which affects how relevant certain aspects are as well

teal abyss
lament saffron
#

hmmm! meaning that is the end result of a cascade, or the "byproduct" of whatever blinkspace process the NHP is going through?

sleek monolith
# worn geyser imo Eclipse Phase had the right amount of known unknowns - the stuff left unansw...

while I truly sympathize with this exact thing, I do think there is some value where Lancer leaves some of the biggest campaign-bearing questions as just that, questions, for groups to answer together at the table. I wouldn't have had this huge crossover event with my friend's Pathfinder 2e campaign without it, wherein he's totally going with his entire fantasy world is a metavault, and pilots that end up there are the reason the Automaton Ancestry exist

teal abyss
lament saffron
#

thanks Kat, this has been a fantastic discussion

polar pagoda
#

(If you want to crossover lancer with eclipse phase I do have something for youšŸ‘€)

#

I donā€™t want to derail this forum but #1057970331500937277 has what you might want in that regard

past socket
#

Well, this is all also all assuming these entities called NHP share more than... Base characteristics of their "species" in a way?

One area my players and I were enjoying exploring is the idea that beyond certain very general concepts, no two NHP go through anything the same way, unless they are very freshly minted together.

sleek monolith
past socket
#

Haha!

teal abyss
#

Yes, there's certainly something to be said about diversity in NHP subjectivities. Naturally there are some (potentially a lot of) convergences predicated on the metaphysical realities of their existence but they're definitely not all the same.

worn geyser
#

The holograms in the museum art are intended to be Balwinder and BolaƱo, right?

sleek monolith
#

(slight aside to explain what i meant. The series known as Neon Genesis Evangelion has a "species" of antagonist called angels. It's revealed that what makes the angels so devastating is that they are Truly Unique Beings, each one is it's own species, and they have formed such Ego (as in the concept) from this, that it becomes weaponized as an energy shield as they cannot every truly connect with any other living being. Though, one does later but that's a whole symbolic can of worms)

teal abyss
worn geyser
#

ty!

sleek monolith
#

we see the similarities in eidolons to angels of that series, so some of my players have theories that each NHP despite cloning is actually a unique being on a much higher metaphysical scale than the difference between Bob and Tom the pilot. Rather, completely different "species"

#

what really has become a hanger on with this... is I accidentally made the anime canon and available in the massif vault so now there are some player pilots who think this in-universe

#

and have started a conspiracy that the show was a warning about NHP to the future humans

past socket
#

Kat, as I start my journey into the book, do you still want author ama questions?

teal abyss
#

Sure šŸ™‚

sleek monolith
#

the only question I have as I earnestly read this and do chores is "Why the year 5022?"

past socket
#

What would you say is the single biggest author insert when it comes to themes or ideas in the book?

worn geyser
#

author insert?

teal abyss
#

Oh boy. There's a lot of me in there in different places.

#

I think I mentioned this before on this thread but I still cry every time I read the section on Andromache

#

A lot of the politics/philosophy is also informed by my personal relationship to oppression

past socket
# worn geyser author insert?

Oh! I'm likely misusing a term, so I am grateful Kat got it.

Parts of a work an author really sees their own self shine through, or even be fully represented within the boundaries of the medium.

worn geyser
#

ahh

#

BE RIGHT BACK, GONE TO GET GIFF STICKS
wheughfheurh

lucid gate
#

Any ETA for Non Backers?

worn geyser
#

kat is having a rest after the stress of getting the codes out

#

possibly a day?

#

some of the discussion in Legionnaire about cascade symptoms has made me realise that cascade could be couched in a demonic possession metaphor

#

except the demon is coming from inside the regan

#

changes in personality, abrubpt episodes of radical behaviour, signs of paranormal abilities

#

you call an old ontologist and a young ontologist in to assess the problem as your Plastic Pal Who's Fun To Be With is spewing pea soup and speaking the names of all traitors

teal cliff
#

There's a lot of possible avenues, though also I think a lot of demonic possession hallmarks are uncharitable interpretation of untreated mental illness, so there's history you tap into there

worn geyser
#

well that's the thing, cascade is also an interpretation of untreated mental illness

#

it is an NHP going insane under the stress of what is happening to them

teal abyss
# lucid gate Any ETA for Non Backers?

Taking a bit of a break and verifying that everything's going well with backers first, depending on my reserves of mental energy it might be this evening or tomorrow

teal cliff
#

I haven't done a lore-chat dig for it, but I actually believe the assignment of mental episode or mental illness and cascade were specifically decried by Tom a while back

#

at least insofar as the dusty corners of my memory suggest

worn geyser
#

i'll be honest - despite what word of tom says, if it quacks like a stress-induced psychotic episode...

#

he may not have meant it that way, but i am sure the writer of The Exorcist did not have mental illness in mind either

teal cliff
#

Iirc, the issue was how viewing and terming cascade as a mental episode assigns and limits the scope and range of what actually happens during a cascade to the preconceptions surrounding a mental episode

#

i.e. ultimately somewhat reductive

worn geyser
#

well yeah, of course cascade is not 1:1 a mental illness episode, but i feel it is a suitable lens for productively viewing and discussing mental illness if desired

teal abyss
#

As a person who is certified Mentally Ill this is one of the reasons why the content warnings section of the introduction says to talk to your players before handing out things like burdens because as with all depictions of altered mental states the two most direct references most people in the real world have are mental illness and narcotics.

lucid gate
worn geyser
#

yeah absolutely - in case it wasn't clear i am not saying cascade IS or HAS to be related to demonic possession and/or mental illness, just that they are thematic options available

#

one could play an NHP specialist working with a mind whose subjectivity benefits from a performance of exorcism during soft resets

#

the feeling of being cleansed, of returning to a pure state, of having an inhuman Other banished from their mind

#

but also in a more general sense, possibly also relating shackling back to its' roots in K6BD demon-masking

teal cliff
#

oh yeah, I don't disagree that they're options, its just important to note when you're tapping into a history, as it can be easy to do so unintentionally, which can easily lead to cross theming and other unintentional interactions

#

heck, being aware of the history lends itself to more effectively using a theme or metaphor

worn geyser
#

i'd say we're already in potentially uncomfy territory with the inherent slavery-analog of NHP monotasking in core lore

#

but yes

teal cliff
#

to be fair, I don't think the NHP situation in the core lore is supposed to be comfy

#

if, as a table or player chooses to engage with it in a broad manner anyway

vital plume
#

Hey @teal abyss may I DM you regarding the email? Want to verify something

#

Oh wait nvm this was using mailchimp

#

Thaaaat's why the domain verification got messed up

teal abyss
#

Yeah it wasn't a perfect solution, but it appears to have worked.

vital plume
#

Just wanted to make sure because the error message threw me for a loop lol

#

Glad you got it sorted though

teal abyss
#

Many lessons learned for the future with this I think.

surreal owl
#

Itā€™s also good to know if I ever do a KS tbh

vital plume
#

I mean if anything launches perfectly, was it really a worthwhile launch?

#

Is that a

Clueless frog emoji

nocturne goblet
#

YESSSSS GOT THE LINK LET'S GOOOOO

#

I'm so excited about this djdkdkddk my Lancer group has been following closely

teal abyss
#

I really hope y'all enjoy it!

nocturne goblet
#

I can't imagine a reality where we won't tbh!! We were excited based off vibes alone and then the more we saw and followed along the more confident we felt we'd enjoy it šŸ˜„

#

Congrats on the launch! Sorry it was such a pain in the ass, but I hope this at least eases some of the stress off your shoulders!

teal abyss
#

It really does! Still got the public release to go, but that's less of a big deal since it doesn't require me to do much except click a button, and then set up the community copies

surreal owl
nocturne goblet
#

I'm glad the public release sounds like way less of a headache djdkdkdk

teal abyss
#

Yeah probably the most difficult bit is the community copies, but I've educated myself on that in advance and the process appears to be relatively straightforward

#

(watch with a wry smile as my hubris consumes me)

surreal owl
#

Honestly, the Iā€™d expect the biggest hurdle after this is the DTRPG release, but thatā€™ll happen after itch is done and ready and on sale, so itā€™ll be less anxiety inducing. DTRPG will just make you wait to a) verify your publisher account b) verify any new uploads from a new publisher, which wonā€™t be as big a deal if itch is already live and selling

#

If youā€™ve already made your publisher account ahead of time then thatā€™s 1 less thing to wait for; otherwise cā€™est la vie

teal abyss
#

Yeah, for sure

fading plover
#

Reading the lore now

#

Love the NHP Subculture stuff

wintry crane
#

Reading through it now and jesus fuck this is good

#

It has already improved my campaign

royal mesa
#

on the omninet, nobody knows youā€™re an NHP

image.png
cloud niche
#

me refreshing my email every second for that key

vital plume
teal abyss
wintry crane
#

I love the idea of underminds -- I sort of independently came up with a similar idea for my campaign but the implementation described in the book is way better and more interesting

teal abyss
#

yeah, when I first read about them in Wallflower I instantly knew they'd have massive potential in terms of campaign design because they make for perfect minibosses

wintry crane
#

Were they in wallflower? I don't remember that term being used

past socket
#

I am extremely enthusiastic that Pre-Deimosian Minds get any time in this book at all, and the ways they get expanded on.

teal abyss
#

Ah yes, they're not named in Wallflower (they're actually named in the core book, of all places, as part of the IDENTIFY//CONSUME flashpoint)

wary lava
#

oh!!!

#

is it here? It's here!!

vital plume
#

Okay I'll need to set aside some time to read this thing

#

However the role-playing NHPs bit is gonna come in VERY big handy in my game

wary lava
#

Same.

cloud niche
smoky spear
#

i've begun to glimpse at the pdf on my phone while I wait to finish my day to look at it more properly once I get home....

But I want to say I looooove everything i'm seeing in there, in term of readiness to tackle and contend with the canon in a way that feel like it mesh extremely naturally with it.

If I didn't already know this was third party i'd think it would have been an official release.

Love how SSC's history get a very natural expansion on tying it's decentralized nature to the death of their homeworld.

teal cliff
#

oh hey good call

#

my spam folder

#

was hiding it from me

surreal owl
teal cliff
#

im very keen to dig in. As I'm one of the lorechatters who are given to talk about NHP at length, its of interest to see where my views might adjust or co-opt or adapt

vivid snow
#

ITā€™S HERE

#

I AM GOING TO HYPERFOCUS ON THIS SO HARD

#

Homework whom? I hardly knew her!

teal abyss
polar pagoda
#

Noooo malachiiiteee do your homework

vivid snow
#

I was already failing to get anything done on it anyway so I might as well enjoy myself lol

#

I have all day

polar pagoda
#

šŸ˜­

vivid snow
#

By the way, the moment this is released publicly I am gonna hound my Lancer GM to get it

#

Thereā€™s so much stuff even in the LCP but also from what Iā€™m seeing in the table of contents that will be great for our campaign

hasty crest
#

key acquired! can't wait to look through this. I already skimmed it to see all the art in context and its lovely

novel ocean
#

I read a bunch on the bus. The HORUS chat room cracked me up pretty good

teal abyss
#

that was fun to write

novel ocean
#

It did throw me for a loop seeing some familiar names from Pnet and Freelancers

teal abyss
#

haha yeah, author privilege there

solid parrot
#

Key received and redeemed and then I have to be away from my PC for a bit...

#

Nobody suffers as I do

wary lava
#

book activated and received

vital plume
#

seeing Tally in an actual major supplement fills me with

much joy

teal abyss
#

it was fun looking through the backer characters, realising I had three different MSMC characters, and then having a brainwave

solid parrot
#

okay i had to immediately check the cascade tips

#

kat, you did a great job carrying Sisyphus' voice through from the core book to here, well done

teal abyss
#

Thanks šŸ™‚ that was a fun piece to write

leaden pine
teal cliff
#

lol

#

I have at least one player already interested in the plying as an nhp option

#

also i appreciate the footnote regarding technophile and cascading

#

i wonder if there's an elegant way to have the technophile interpretation regarding doppleganger/body swapping play out with a character in progress

#

and switching them into an NHP character

#

the whole "Are you becoming it or is it becoming you, are your thoughts even your own anymore" stuff out of the technophile fluff

sleek monolith
#

points at the player_two bypass

teal abyss
#

Honestly if you think it would work at your table and it would be fun, 100% go for it

vital plume
#

Side note

#

Community copies

#

How do those work

teal abyss
#

So, once the game is available to purchase on itch.io, they have a system whereby people can claim "rewards", which you can set up a limited number thereof. This is sometimes used in the TTRPG community to provide essentially free copies to folks who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford them

#

my understanding is that anyone can just rock up and claim one, it's a trust-based system

#

those will be set up after the book becomes available to purchase. it's a little extra work on my end but hopefully fairly straightforward

sleek monolith
#

Yup. I admittedly have gotten some great stuff from community copies when I was skirting homelessness.

teal abyss
#

so it turns out that there will be a little over 1000 community copies. folks are very generous.

vital plume
#

Gotcha!

royal mesa
vital plume
#

Jojo's reference?

royal mesa
#

Can't believe Noah was Raphael Ambrosius Costeau all along

leaden pine
#

I do believe it,skill issue

lost sigil
#

Just woke up and book has been received. Today is a good day. o7

raw acorn
wintry crane
#

What's updog?

teal abyss
#

okay gang

#

that was, uh, substantially easier than I thought to set live

raw acorn
teal abyss
#

we are officially open for new purchases

#

I'll write an actual announcement in a bit

ivory jetty
#

#1057955574949625948 message
-PATION

teal abyss
leaden pine
#

Real

teal abyss
#

wtf which of you fuckers just spent $50 on this book

ivory jetty
#

hot dang I'm so so excited to read this

#

šŸ˜…

#

sorry hope that was ok

teal abyss
#

now $40 what the hell

#

(yes it's perfectly okay)

surreal owl
#

No apologies for throwing money at Kat

rigid canopy
#

I HAAAVE THE POWEEEEEEER!!!

teal cliff
#

now open for purchase
"why are you giving me money"
xD

teal abyss
#

listen, right, okay, now see here

raw acorn
#

You put thing on Internet, expect money and/or praise to be thrown upon you

wintry crane
#

time for #lancer-news announcement? šŸ‘€

teal abyss
#

yes, probably. I should write something up

#

for now, consider your foreknowledge a privilege of following the thread šŸ˜‰

zinc hazel
#

Congrats on the launch @teal abyss! Looks incredible āœØ

glass sapphireBOT
#

Its finnaly here!

arctic sequoia
#

I am incredibly excited to redeem my key when I get home

glass sapphireBOT
#

God,we cant wait to get it tommorow

teal abyss
#

Thank you ā¤ļø

glass sapphireBOT
#

Goooodddd we never realised how hyped we were for it till now(althought its also good timing)

vivid snow
#

Told my Lancer party that it is now available to the public ā¤ļø

teal cliff
#

i immediately notified my players to take a look-see to see if they wanted to engage with anything in it

#

have one already interested

#

the other hasn't had the time yet to peek

wary lava
#

One of my players want Shadowcloaked already.

#

And Marduke.

vivid snow
#

I wanna rework a lot of my existing (unplayed) hacker builds to use the Legionnaire talent

#

Finally a good talent for offensive hackers

#

Sysop from Solstice Rain gets an honorable mention as a talent for support hackers ofc

teal cliff
#

ah but consider

#

the full suite

#

hacker, sysop, legionnaire, and shadowcloaked

#

no guns, no problem

vivid snow
teal cliff
#

gestalt script kiddie

vivid snow
#

Love this

ivory jetty
#

First episode of Metaspace Adventure Go! when

stiff cosmos
#

legionnaire acquired

fading plover
#

I wanna be an NHP

#

They sound cool

teal cliff
#

if i can sink my teeth into the book, maybe i can invoke a bit more nhpness into my game state

#

i usually avoid them, on account of not feeling like i can match my own mental assessment of NHP-as-narratively-present-characters

#

Which is to say, I tend to avoid the "exactly the same as a human, but more powerful and digital" shorthand for rp purposes

stiff cosmos
#

(there's a bunch of "hacker, but good" talents floating around, I have not fully imported them into my games....yet....)

teal cliff
#

incidentally hacker gets a bit more utility out of legionnaire

vivid snow
#

True

stiff cosmos
#

(i think most of them keep hacker 1 the same but let the player pick)

teal abyss
#

A fun combo I've been enjoying is Legionnaire 3/Tactician 3

vivid snow
#

Data Dart looks so cool tbh. Game changer.

teal cliff
#

the change I'd make to hacker 2 is "saves and checks" (but this is less legionnaire talk and more base game talk)

#

Data Dart on liminal space's carmilla makes me laugh a bit; they don't synergize I don't think, but the concept amuses me

vivid snow
#

If only I wasnā€™t playing a Toku pilot in my current campaign (and if only the hacker position on our team werenā€™t cursed to never stay filled for more than one session)ā€¦ That said, a lot of my fellow party members would get good use out of this stuff, and ERESHKIGAL looks like itā€™d be good on my Toku.

teal cliff
#

hmm data dart works with walking armory and stormbringer too

vivid snow
#

I should put Legionnaire on that hacker Monarch I builtā€¦

teal cliff
#

the combo play being skirmish, reaper dart, frag sig -> quick tech, invade with acc, choose whatever you want

royal mesa
#

Why does the Nelson have teeth

rare shard
#

same reason we do

vivid snow
#

What page, I wanna see

royal mesa
#

99

vivid snow
#

Oh that slaps

teal cliff
#

oh those? They've always been there, just uh, under the visor

#

Get into the Nelson, Pilot

spring sage
#

I'm quite interested in Legionnaire. I know it doesn't always indicate the product quality, but how many pages has the final product clocked out to?

teal abyss
#

102 pages total

spring sage
#

Nice thank you šŸ˜

oblique trellis
#

CONGRATZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

#

READING NOW

teal abyss
teal abyss
royal mesa
#

...

#

WHY DOES THE DRAKE HAVE GUTS

vivid snow
#

Same reason we do šŸ™‚

ivory jetty
#

what happened at ganiki, I want to know

teal cliff
#

Oh, as far as my initial skim through, I got the sense you put a lot of thought into it, great work! I'll likely be dipping into it over decently long period, mostly as my players look into and explore their options

#

I also appreciate the effort gone towards like... combing the depths of old NHP discussions in Lorechat and gathering all kinds of data

teal abyss
teal abyss
#

I'm sure there are a few things in there that don't quite match up, it's inevitable with something like this, but I like to think everything in the book is at least grounded in the lore

teal cliff
#

huh, just occured to me... hacker viceroy with legionnaire data dart, vanguard, and stormbringer could be a potent combo

vivid snow
#

Whatā€™s Viceroy from?

verbal heron
#

started reading it on lunch at work, this is good shit

teal cliff
#

overwatch into data dart into stormbending into puppet systems. They enter your threat, and they LEAVE

teal cliff
vivid snow
#

Oooh

teal cliff
#

smaller, gives all your launchers the cqb tag

vivid snow
#

I am finding so many goodies for my OCs Kitt (human) and Fawkes (NHP) in the section on H-NHP bridging intensifeyes

polar pagoda
#

Iā€™m gonna purchase this soon

rigid canopy
#

13 pages in and loving it. Taking notes and getting inspiration already.

past socket
#

Whoah. Amphichiral Alignment Weapons? Cogent Minds are brutal.

solid parrot
#

is the lcp updated for filtering yet, by the by?

surreal owl
solid parrot
#

oh! thank you

#

im gonna slam this lcp down at my players

oblique trellis
#

Yo this is good šŸ‘šŸ¾

#

||cannon||

robust shadow
#

yessssss

#

yayyyy tis up?

vivid snow
#

SISYPHUS MONOLOGUE MARK TWO intensifeyes thisfucks

sleek monolith
#

i do enjoy how so far I've only needed to errata one paragraph for my group

brisk gyro
#

im slowly reading through everything

#

im on page 49 and i literally had to just

#

sit back and take in that art of the eidolon

#

its gorgeous

teal abyss
brisk gyro
#

agreed

#

its literally stunning i spent like just a full minute taking in all the detail

#

i love the nhp voice just breaking into the paragraphs every now and then

#

homeboy is a lil sus

#

i love that about all the horus stuff in comp con too

#

this is gonna be so helpful for an oc i have whos a technophile bc his mind is forever partially merged with his personal NHP

#

through concepts involving bridging

teal abyss
#

I'm glad everyone seems to be finding this useful :3

brisk gyro
#

me when the spontaneous manifestation of an unshackled deimosian entity immediately takes an interest in the concept of death and decides to get way too experimental with my soon to be corpse that WILL be brought back to life multiple times over the next few hours

#

hm

#

i wonder if firmament technology could be personalized and used as a sort of anchoring tool for metavault investigations and dealing with eidolons

#

since it seems to have a nullifying effect on blinkspace manifestation

teal abyss
#

only one way to find out!

brisk gyro
#

tru

surreal owl
#

Suddenly lore ideas for a Lancer-style Dungeon of the Mad Mage

brisk gyro
#

lmao reading some of the NHP cascade burdens

#

and im just here like

#

'this is just advanced scifi autism'

#

/pos

vivid snow
#

I have SO MANY NEW IDEAS for several of my OCs from reading this, in addition to new OC ideas intensifeyes Thank you Legionnaire for my life

brisk gyro
#

makes it easier for me to portray

vivid snow
#

Between this and Karenā€™s Nexus Amendment stuff, I am eating well šŸ˜Œ

brisk gyro
#

nhp: im slowly becoming detached from ideas of subjectivity, hyperfixating on endless patterns that im starting to notice, and realizing that my perceived humanity has cracked and ive entered a state of uncanny valley

me, a neurodivergent person: join the club buddy you aint special

vivid snow
#

Lmao mood

#

Iā€™m also like

#

Proud of myself for how much of Kitt and Fawkesā€™ lore (OCs of mine, unintentional H-NHP bridging shenanigans) already lines up with stuff Legionnaire has in it about SSCā€™s ExMat research hehehe

#

Feels good to know Iā€™m not pulling shit entirely out of my ass and others have had similar ideas

brisk gyro
#

eyyy i also have unintentional shenanigans for my boi jericho and his permanent brain homie IZANAMI

vivid snow
#

Eyyyyyyyy

brisk gyro
#

tldr initial manifestation of a new deimosian entity decided to get all experimental with the concept of finality and death

#

stuck a part of itself into his brain through his neural implants that linked him to his mech

#

then the rest of 'her' stayed in the overarching systems around him and uh

#

killed him

#

then brought him back

#

multiple times

#

this obviously would have some. very interesting effects on a person

vivid snow
#

The situation for Kitt and Fawkes is that Kitt broke into an ExMat black site and found an unstable NHP, Fawkes, who was developed with the explicit goal of having it cascade to the point of becoming an eidolon under lab conditions so SSC could study it. Kitt, being an ex-Ungrateful, immediately abandoned what theyā€™d originally broken in for and liberated Fawkes. Trouble is, to smuggle them out they had to plug Fawkesā€™ casket directly into the spinal port of their subjectivity-enhancement suite. Now the boundaries between their respective subjectivities are dissolving and Fawkes is falling deep into cascade, while Kitt is being hunted by SSC, who want to capture them and study how their little project goes now that thereā€™s a human mind thrown in there

brisk gyro
#

theyre not like fully subsumed into a new entity, but their minds are irreversibly partially linked, more like the in between of bridging here and pacific rim's drifting

#

even when this initial instance has been shackled

#

she cant be too far from jericho or her shackles will just

#

break

#

immediately

vivid snow
#

Oooh I love that

#

Sounds very cool intensifeyes

brisk gyro
#

its why hes been allowed to hold onto the prime intelligence

#

bc he can very easily just

#

blow his brains out and screw everyone else over

#

and negotiation is always in your favor when you have a detonator in your hands

vivid snow
#

Oh my

#

I can imagine

brisk gyro
#

'let me stay a pilot or i will cause the manifestation of a metavault right here in the middle of UIB headquarters'

vivid snow
#

Lmaoooo

brisk gyro
#

but yeah the character concept started out based on the 'cthuhlu waifu' joke

vivid snow
#

Cthulhu waifu joke?

brisk gyro
#

because i like taking joke character memes like that, the horny bard, and other stuff, and seeing what i can make into a legitimate interesting character

#

when i first got involved with lancer i saw a bunch of memes about ai girl waifus about nhps

vivid snow
#

Ahhhhh yeah

#

Kitt and Fawkes were my first Lancer OCs and came about primarily because I saw the Technophile talent and went intensifeyes

#

Though originally their concepts were quite different than what they turned out as

#

Theyā€™re probably better suited to be NPCs than PCs, given their whole deal, but I love them and hope to someday write something involving them

brisk gyro
#

Neat

vivid snow
#

This is probably better suited to #oc-cantina lol, so to bring it back to Legionnaire: The metavault stuff looks very interesting and if I can convince my GM to get this it will most likely be very useful for him later in our plot hehehe

brisk gyro
#

Yuh

rigid canopy
#

Jesus fuck, this is deliciously dense.

vivid snow
#

Isnā€™t it great? Thereā€™s so much, itā€™s very juicy

brisk gyro
#

I took a break from reading bc I need to do my daily exercise but yeah itā€™s insane

marsh plinth
brisk gyro
#

I mean in mythology she is a corpse goddess

teal cliff
#

well if SOMEONE didn't turn to look

brisk gyro
marsh plinth
#

Oh, definitely ! We wrote her as something of a stillborn NHP originally, but didn't consider the "experimenting with death" angle.

twilit juniper
#

genuinely cannot get over how much this content pack aligns with my pilot OC
#oc-cantina message

#

(i lost my account in december šŸ˜¢ )

marsh plinth
#

Its really fun to see perspectives we never couldve thought of šŸ˜

twilit juniper
#

The H-NHP ontological bridge stuff specifically.

#

that's kinda her whole thing

strong halo
#

just popped in to say this book is so good

teal abyss
#

I'm always interested to hear which bits resonate the most with people

distant schooner
#

The sections talking about Cogent Minds and their comparison to traditional legions was just šŸ‘Œ

#

contextualized it for me perfectly

twilit juniper
#

Kaaaat
Would you be okay with a DM later tonight when I wrap up a game?

teal abyss
#

Absolutely

marsh plinth
#

We've just skimmed it for now but it looks incredible both in presentation and content !
I'm taking the chance to thank you for inclusion of Wuxing Chrysalis Workshop, its really nice! o7

twilit juniper
#

Understood, thank you!~

glass sapphireBOT
#

its great to see our small contribution inspiring people šŸ˜Š

teal abyss
twilit juniper
#

Totally fine, no rush on my end.~

robust shadow
#

managed to nab it

#

extremely good so far

#

i'm only on page 16 lol

#

robot gan eiden real?????

#

i love the idea of nhp omninet dramas also

warped hill
#

Absolutely loving this book.

teal abyss
#

honestly I would watch NHP omninet dramas just for the experience of being confused out of my mind, like watching Infinite Steamed Hams on twitch crossed with all those creepy AI generated "children's" youtube videos

strong halo
teal abyss
#

I really enjoyed writing that piece. I'm no longer religious but it's nice to have a cosy, realistic depiction of what religion can mean to some people. Just imagining what it might be like to live for centuries longer than your friends and family and perhaps never seeing them again

surreal owl
teal abyss
#

Queen's '39 lives rent free in my head whenever I think about Cosmopolitan life

brisk gyro
void ingot
#

this cover art is so so good waow

teal abyss
#

I still can't get over how good it is, I have it as a poster now

#

@eternal ferry did such an incredible job I can't even begin to explain

strong halo
#

oh I also really resonated with the Player_Two Neural Bypass in a lot of very different ways

wary lava
#

a lot of the art in this book I'd like as a poster

teal abyss
#

me too honestly. when I get some spare time I'm gonna talk to some of the artists about doing an art pack or prints

#

it's something we've already discussed to a certain extent

#

realistically the best way to make that happen is to be vocal in how much you'd want one, since this would be a decision that the artists would be making and it's likely to be based at least in part on whether there's demand

brisk gyro
#

I want the eidolon so bad

past socket
#

Nergal is so cool.

#

What a neat, balanced way to make that work.

#

Hmmm. I might use some of these rules and burdens one day, to play a Mind.

void ingot
#

NHP anime is real??

#

sad that I probably wouldn't get it

glacial dagger
#

<.< So rule question...Innana + Caliban Pursue Prey...that...would trigger the follow movement how many times if you hit 3 people at the same time? or just the one move?

solid parrot
#

three times

#

pursue prey procs for every instance of knockback

glacial dagger
#

that would be interesting hmmmm

rare shard
#

Same for if you get knockback onto an area attack

glacial dagger
#

Just each move would have to be in the direction of the procing target so try to cluster the Area Ram so they go near each other and in the same-ish direction gotcha

teal abyss
#

just beware of the fact that Caliban has sensors 3

solid parrot
#

so what we do is we get a goblin to metahook it first-

versed solar
#

Questionā€¦is the actual pdf of Legionnaire a kickstarter thing or am I just very blind? Because I canā€™t seem to find it

teal abyss
#

if you're a kickstarter backer you should have been sent an email with your download key, you might want to check your spam folder

#

if it's not there, let me know and I'll see if I can fix that for you

#

(if not and I have misunderstood your question I apologise, it's 2am here and I'm starting to flag a bit)

royal mesa
#

Hey I found a picture that sums up the itch.io debacle

raven dove
#

Hey, just wanted to pop into the discord to say I really appreciate the efforts you took to getting backers their keys. Very excited to finally read this (I've got a player who is VERY invested in nhp lore and we're starting next week so this is Perfect timing) and I hope you know I (and, based on the other comments I've seen, your other backers as well!) did not mind waiting in the slightest, I'm sorry to hear itch was causing you so many issues!!

void ingot
#

the mech art on page 51

#

ouh

versed solar
fast vigil
#

I haven't even known this TTRPG for a week and I still bought this because my mind has been revolving around NHPs

wary lava
#

Welcome about then!

placid flame
#

heya, does anyone know the source to the art of the BW, Saladin, and Raleigh on page 75?

fast vigil
#

Can we ask questions about NHP player guidelines here or is there always some basis in 1st-party stuff for things/it's more a lore question?

quick adder
#

Loving Legionnaire so far as I'm reading through it! A question, though - for player NHP pilots that are cascading, they can perform the Shut Down action as normal to pull themselves out of a cascade. Can they also Boot Up after that, or does that require another pilot to do that for them?

Related, if they can, what allows them to Boot Up afterwards? Some sort of program that runs through the shut down -> boot up cycle?

novel ocean
# placid flame heya, does anyone know the source to the art of the BW, Saladin, and Raleigh on ...

https://twitter.com/tfinnbarr/status/1631083369735004160?s=20

Tom Finnbarr Carroll (@tfinnbarr)

"Belief in reality became a weapon. We approached the metavault knowing that we would face an unknown enemy, but we approached with the advantage of numbers and machine strength.

DHIYED taught us as it killed us."

One more for LEGIONNAIRE
https://t.co/y3zp04Wkr9 #LancerRPG

Likes

607

Retweets

143

Twitter Ā·
placid flame
#

sick, ty!

novel ocean
#

ive finished reading all the stuff prior to the gm guide, need to do a couple more readthrough's to fully absorb everything, but seriously if i didn't know that this was third party stuff, i would fully believe it to be first party

#

i had to remind myself a couple times that this wasnt official lore

teal abyss
fast vigil
lost sigil
#

i thought it was the size of a leg

fast vigil
#

I'm dumb and got into this thing like 3 days ago now and immediately wanted to create an NHP Pilot, so I mean... XD

teal abyss
# quick adder Loving Legionnaire so far as I'm reading through it! A question, though - for pl...

Yes, once Shut Down, the cascade ends and they can Boot Up again as normal (there's no inherent restriction on that). You can imagine that working one of a few different ways, narratively speaking - either a sort of daemon program that handles the shut down -> boot up, or them not fully turning themselves off (just powering down other systems long enough to perform a fast cycle without being distracted), or whatever way makes the most sense to you and your GM

teal abyss
brittle ginkgo
teal abyss
#

exactly that

fast vigil
#

I mean technically there's always the nonsense answer of 'However big or small your GM lets it be', however I had thought you could just shove an entire NHP into a subaltern itself and not wire it into a mech, which... is an entirely different question, I guess?

teal abyss
#

Serket's right; "about the size of a leg" is the most canonical answer we have for size, which is obviously not hugely precise

#

I tend to treat them as person-draggable, but not easily portable

#

Technophile 3 is a special case. Legionnaire's explanation for this is that casket miniaturisation 100% is possible, you just trade off with shortened cycle times the smaller you get. But since you have the kind of relationship with your Enlightenment-class NHP that allows you to mitigate cascade, that's less of an issue for you personally

fast vigil
#

So the answer is more 'The smaller you get the more likely you are to Cascade earlier, so leg-sized is the safest size'?

teal abyss
#

Essentially yes, that was the best way I could find of linking all the canon together into a single explanation

fast vigil
#

Gotcha. Yeah, I had made the stupid assumption of 'Oh, you can probably just stick it INSIDE a subaltern and then have that pilot the mech', not 'It's always in the mech and communicates TO its subaltern, and can't if it's jammed'. Apologies for the dumb questions.

teal abyss
#

It's not a stupid assumption, I think; this is one of those things where it's designed that way because it makes a lot of other mechanical design questions simpler to solve

#

("Lancer is not a simulationist game" etc, but in this case the rules for mech combat have primacy over narrative in terms of how this gets designed)

fast vigil
#

I guess you technically could, just that you'd probably need to trade off an amount of cycle time even if you put it in the 'torso' of a subaltern? And also depends on the GM, of which I don't have one, so these are all hypothetical as hell questions. šŸ˜…

teal abyss
#

yeah, or your subaltern ends up being mostly casket with some arms and legs

#

there's nothing stopping you flavouring a Casket Mobility Suite as a humanoid robot body, if your GM is happy with that

#

one of the joys of Lancer as a system is that it's very open to refluffing things

fast vigil
#

Again: I lack a GM, but I'll keep it in mind if ever I actually find one. I have been subtly trying to get my sister and mother into it, however. And by subtly I mean not subtly.

teal abyss
#

haha, good luck!

#

but yes, the vulgar exigencies of mechanical design are also the reason why you can't control a bunch of subalterns or even mechs in mech combat, even though in fiction NHPs could 100% do that (and are encouraged to in the section on antagonists in the GM chapters)

teal abyss
reef crater
#

I love all the nhp burdens a ton

teal abyss
#

thanks! players in testing have absolutely loved them

#

I've genuinely had players in games actively try to get burdens, just so they can have one of these

robust shadow
#

abt to make a guy who is just so fucked up

#

i'm not really clear on wtf a catalytic interpellator is

#

is it just jargon for "thing that creates/maintains the conditioned identity of the shackled NHP"?

reef crater
# teal abyss thanks! players in testing have absolutely loved them

Theyre all super well written and outside of like just personal character creation they give a lot of like.. prompt ideas for potential nhp antagonists and motivations therein

Like now I'm just thinking of an nhp or gestalt that has the Fated and Benevolence burdens but then also is acting as a "player 2" to multiple human hosts that they've logic'd themselves into thinking every action they take is part of some grand design to show humans the true depths of reality.

In addition to LANCER I tend to also play a lot of Mothership which is much more of like an Alien inspired horror ttrpg, and I feel like you could get some really cool and scary campaigns setup with a lot of these premises~

teal abyss
robust shadow
#

sweet lol

teal abyss
#

that said, in my head structural hyperbasilisks are the part of the casket metaware that helps to prevent unconstrained autognosis

#

and dynamic casket space reshaping is just like, a realtime/dynamic approach to manifold origami šŸ˜…

reef crater
#

Okay!! We ready to go? Get in the mech!

What is a mech if not a new body for which to inhabit? Does your definition change when the mech is one of flesh instead of steel?

#

Also I know talents are like, supposed to be for mech combat, but the idea of an NHP fighting some memetic virus in someones mind in just roleplay sounds super cool (looking at the shadowcloaked talent and its description)

teal abyss
#

oh god yes, these are extremely cool ideas

robust shadow
#

the term structural hyperbasilisk gives me the vibe of like, a fractal cognitohazard (cognitocontrol?)

#

wrt what u said, that procs upon that "growth" associated with cascade and triggers avoidant compulsions of that state

#

although i'm assuming this cannot be 100% effective

reef crater
#

Sad nhp who doesn't have a firm grasp on linear time.

Their pilot has died in the present but they still have conversations with them in the past.

They've also seen a future in which they were saved. A future where they can still be saved. And so all their actions in the present are perceived as wildly chaotic but are just setting the conditions just right to bring about the probability where they can have new conversations with their friend.

lost sigil
#

quick question: should I know what happened to Harrison II? (page 12)

teal abyss
#

It's not expected that you should but this is a reference to the Black Throne Incident which is detailed in the (draft, unreleased) Field Guide to Harrison Armory

lost sigil
#

I need to read that draft more closely. I've only skimmed it while looking up specific details

teal abyss
#

the long and short of it was, JCH2 tried to replicate part of the Oracle Chorus (the Think Tank mk 1) and ordered it to figure out how to make him immortal

#

When he did this, RA showed up in the skies over Ras Shamra and told him in no uncertain terms to quit his bullshit

lost sigil
#

love that

teal abyss
#

to which JCH2 said "lol, lmao" and ordered his entire fleet to fire on Deimos

lost sigil
teal abyss
#

so of course RA redirected every single weapon from the fleet through blinkspace into a tiny sphere around JCH2's throne and obliterated him and his close advisors with his own fleet's weapons fire

lost sigil
#

I love a good fuck around and find out

teal abyss
#

the fiction piece that describes this is my favourite in all of Lancer, it is very much worth checking out

#

starts on pg 28 of the Field Guide

lost sigil
#

I'll definitely give it a read. thanks!

teal abyss
#

ā€œIt Is Just A Damn Rock! Blow It Out Of My Sky!ā€

Just such a great line.

void ingot
#

the Legionnaire 3 Data dart looks like fun, finally, I can tech attack attack

teal abyss
#

it's got some fun applications

void ingot
#

why a launcher, if you don't mind me asking?

robust shadow
#

"but disavowed by" thinkaboutit cool

teal abyss
#

A few reasons. Fiction-wise it's because I envisage the dart being like a piece of self-propelled hardware that you fire and when it hits, embeds itself onto the outside of the target before injecting its payload like a virus infecting a cell. Game mechanics wise, Stormbringer is the weapon talent that least causes issues with the design

robust shadow
#

tfw no horizon emoji

void ingot
#

Fair enough. although it is funny you can use Seismic Deluge with it

teal abyss
#

haha yes, that's true

#

though honestly if you're using Stormbringer on a data dart I think you deserve a little knocking targets Prone, as a treat

void ingot
#

it would be perfect with the Chomolungma's balance control lockout

teal abyss
#

oh for sure

#

I'm currently running a Chomolungma pilot who uses Legionnaire and Tactician which is a nice combo

void ingot
#

ooooh

robust shadow
#

i'm psyched to use data dart with scylla

void ingot
#

the section on how the Core book NHPs act when cascading is great, honestly good to have suggestions for what to do

robust shadow
#

huge fan of relativistic space buddhism also

void ingot
#

the horror of an NHP pulling your eject for you didn't really hit until I thought about Sekhmet or Sisyphus doing it

teal abyss
#

yeah, it is not good times

#

strongly contraindicated

#

this is why you maintain good relationships with your NHPs (beyond the fact that they're your colleague and you should just treat them with respect by default)

void ingot
#

Appreciate the NHPs, they do so much for us

lost sigil
#

The campaign im running right now is about to start a mission dealing with an NHP-led activist faction, so this has come out at the perfect time for me

void ingot
#

I wonder what it's like for two NHPs with lesson of shaping when one of them is coming loose

teal abyss
#

I imagine it's got to be pretty scary for the NHP who's not cascading

void ingot
#

yeah, can't be fun to be stuck in a small space with someone who's becoming an unknowable entity, they can keep them from taking control of the mech but

#

they're still having the crisis

#

Great roleplay opportunity but it sounds harrowing

#

So happy you put this supplement together

robust shadow
#

a lot of these burdens remind me of extreme symptoms of ocd, autism and adhd, and acid trips i've experienced. huge fan, very compelling

fast vigil
#

yeah, I think I said to my friend once that NHPs really felt neurodivergent to me :)

teal abyss
#

honestly it's really gratifying to see people connect with it like this, because it feels like I've done my job as a game designer when people are able to relate to the roleplaying effects in a way that makes them useful for characterisation

#

it's so hard to walk that line between banal and unfathomable

fast vigil
#

I dissociate a lot as a system so sometimes time feels very... degrees of being, so I felt I could relate to that one burden of stuff feeling slow or fast or even repeating itself, time is also something that is oriented differently alter to alter as well

robust shadow
#

having a bad trip under my belt certainly helps to form an idea of what this is like and how to rp it

quick adder
twin tusk
#

throws money at Kat. Downloads PDF

#

Only reason I didn't grab it immediately after it dropped is because I was waiting for my paycheck

lapis widget
#

I've already played around with the idea of using technophile and lesson of shaping to carry around three NHPs, now I'm thinking about that, as a naval legionnaire NHP PC for a full squad legion in one mech

smoky spear
#

@teal abyss reading Legionnaire a bit more this morning(sadly got busy with art yesterday at home) but I have to say I find the Farers faith pretty interesting.
Very fitting of the setting

teal abyss
#

thank you :3

sleek monolith
#

i ... misread something in the book at 2am last night but now that misread is also canon for me.

I was on the part about NHP dramas made for NHP. I read Metaspace Adventure Go!... as MEATspace Adventure Go! ... and now I have this idea of a cheesy melodramatic romance action show about NHP power rangers, and the humans that allow them to player 2 to interact with "meatspace" and fight the evil villaness with the power of higher order blink geometry philosophy

#

There's alot of dead static that hides equations and theory

#

anyway, that's where my brain goes at 2am

lapis widget
#

@teal abyss NHP pilots are called out a few times as not being able to use the Black Thumb Talent (makes sense can't really pop out in the casket) but can the subaltern body be used to activate it?

sleek monolith
teal cliff
teal abyss
teal abyss
lapis widget
#

Thank you both for the answer. Though now the thought has struck, could you give control of your subaltern to an other NHP in your mech?

#

I might be overthinking this whole thing a bit

teal abyss
#

In narrative play yes if your GM allows it, in mech combat no

sleek monolith
#

but I'm not your GM so take this with a mine of salt

lapis widget
#

I'm usually the Lancer GM for my particular group šŸ™ƒ

sleek monolith
#

well, then there's my example of how to do it lol

lapis widget
#

True enough, thank you for the answers

plucky brook
#

Reading Legionnaire and really enjoying it. I must admit, one of my main ponderings right now is that 'antiliberationist' is a bit of a weird term for a philosophical group to call itself, no matter how angry they are about that Tuvix episode of Voyager.

teal abyss
#

Yes, you're probably right, it might well just be one of those perjorative academic names that sticks because it's not a well-accepted argument

#

Or some philosopher was like "liberationism is bad" but didn't consider the optics of saying they were "anti liberationism"

#

(Academics do that shit all the time šŸ˜… )

plucky brook
#

Academic: "They should read more theory."
Everyone else: "You should read the fucking room."

sleek monolith
#

I can honestly see that second one considering actual political philosophies I've heard of >.>

#

and then you get the rare edgelord who just wallows in how bad the term sounds on purpose just to troll folks

plucky brook
#

The religion section is fun. I can 100% understand not touching on how various existing religions might touch on NHPs but it's always nice to see RPG stuff remember that religion is very shaping to society even when it's high tech.

sleek monolith
#

also weird NHP religions that have like "sacred places" with shackles and caskets is very interesting

teal abyss
#

yeah you could not PAY me to write about how real-world religious groups would relate to NHPs

sleek monolith
#

but it's also implanted the idea of a bean in my head.

Just, this poor NHP who likes their life, and constantly questions if it's the shackles where that comes from. But they are also existentially afraid of finding out, and like, creates this anti-anxiety mantra about how their shackles protect them from the scary unkown, and I just want to hug the bean and tell them it's okay. ... yup I'm thinking about this too much

plucky brook
#

I nearly ended up a priest so it's a fascination of mine and I think the answer is 'With a million arguments, as religious scholars are just as prone to screaming at each other to read theory/that the 0.1% disagreement is an irrevocable point of contention as any other academic' XD

teal abyss
#

Yes, for sure

plucky brook
#

I had a lot of fun taking religious imagery for Horizon stuff in Liminal Space (As a bit of a reference to stuff like the Quaker abolitionist actions) so I loved seeing a bit on NHPs and faith as too often sci-fi goes to 'we've grown beyond those superstitions'.

polar pagoda
#

Ye ye

#

Itā€™s always a nice vibe

plucky brook
#

Doubly so when lancer is very soft sci-fi doing hard sci-fi cosplay šŸ˜›

polar pagoda
#

I enjoy hard sci fi cosplay

#

I love hard sci fi

sleek monolith
# plucky brook I had a *lot* of fun taking religious imagery for Horizon stuff in Liminal Space...

not for nothing, but one of the most striking scenes in an anime I've seen was in Gundam Unicorn.

Wherein our captured protagonist was on an asteroid base/mine, and one of the antagonists, Merida Cruz is fed up with how naive the main character is, and they take a walk to the deepest part of the asteroid where there is a christian/catholic chapel, and Cruz explains to the MC how a huge number of people in space had to flee there as religion was moved aside for money, science, and power. So the religious folk got shunted into one of the most harsh environments for people to live in.

leaden pine
teal abyss
sleek monolith
#

I always liked that touch of "where DID religion go in gundam?"

plucky brook
#

One of the best moments of sci-fi imo is 'And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place' in B5. For really touching on that sorta stuff. Also just having a real fucking catchy song.

#

But yeah, a bit more directly on topic: Legionnaire is very fun even if I've got a chunk more of it to read XD

teal abyss
#

I think it would be very weird to see a fully-atheist Union. Broadly secular in terms of being tolerant of the huge number of religions under its umbrella but not incorporating them into its political structure makes sense, but when you have verifiable godlike entities showing up and performing literal miracles it would be absurd for everyone to discount the possibility of the supernatural. It'd be like having atheists in D&D.

plucky brook
#

Though I'll admit, I was biased to like anything that has the starting point 'Hey, remember NHPs are people, not just equipment' šŸ˜›

polar pagoda
#

Ye

teal abyss
#

I'm sure some people would take a "these entities aren't actually gods, and even if they were don't describe the entities in your religious tradition" stance - which on a personal level I think is reasonable - but religion of various kinds is definitely going to play an important role in any universe where a godlike being shows up hovering over your planet for a thousand years and grants you magic powers.

polar pagoda
#

Itā€™s something it feels like people forget

plucky brook
# polar pagoda Itā€™s something it feels like people forget

Yeah. It's a minor thing but it's...in my writing I try to describe NHPs in terms of who they are as people, not just the Fancy Supertech they grant you. Attempting to give GMs/players something to hook into for 'this is my copilot/friend's general vibe'.

I feel kinda uncomfortable with writing for NHPs that is mostly just 'Here is this NHP, it does this cool tech thing, end of description'.

teal abyss
#

Plus verifiability and metaphysical empiricism aren't the only lenses to look at religion through. For a lot of people it's about community, coping with various traumas and fears, and so forth. It's an important part of how people live their lives that isn't going to disappear just because we discover more about the universe

polar pagoda
#

Itā€™s not like religion is somehow the antithesis of science

plucky brook
#

(I'm also a big fan of 'Here is stuff for the NHP using a subaltern face')

#

On a related note: I'm really hoping this book will help people pay more attention to NHPs as people/how they're treated by various groups.

teal abyss
#

Me too. I think it's a very interesting part of the setting that's filled with potential for interesting narratives

plucky brook
#

As a (very) minor sadness I had with Liminal Space is people not really noticing that all of the MOI NHPs have this undercurrent of 'Hey, they're not being treated as much like Full People as they should be' because MOI's terrible treatment of NHPs is one of their Big Sins as a company but it kinda slipped past as that wasn't a big thing people focus on too often. XD

teal abyss
#

I will at some point have to give that a proper read

leaden pine
#

like oh god the face I made when I first read the flavor of Mordred

plucky brook
#

Every single MOI NHP is supposed to have an element (Some more obvious than others) of '...oh, that's not right'.

#

With even the nicer ones being 'Hey, this NHP isn't being treated like an equal/its wishes are not being properly respected'

sleek monolith
#

Ikiryo, I can actually say with good conscious that the first thing my pilot with mordred did was try to actually touch base with the NHP and see what they could do to "unprogram" anything MOI did. Led to alot of neat roleplay

plucky brook
#

Hahahah. Thanks, though this is really a thread more about Legionnaire than about my personal rambling about NHP stuff XD

sleek monolith
#

I feel it's very interconnected, as all this is supposed to be about NHP.

#

that being said, now that I got one of my prep things to do, time to read more legionaire

teal cliff
#

You know on the subject of the people bit of nhp, I criss cross as far as how it might be portrayed in the setting. Mostly because there's a level of the layman possibly seeing nhp AS an advanced form of equipment or assistance, and not making a clear personal distinction between ai and nhp, regardless of the truth on the matter. It's a thing where truth doesn't always fully inform every perspective

sleek monolith
#

(i've finally found a good ryhtm to beat my focus issues. Prep 1 solid thing like an encounter worth of npcs or a map, then read a "chapter" of a book)

teal cliff
#

That and how most people will likely never interact directly, 1 to 1, with an nhp

#

I think from a portrayal perspective, it's important to consistently portray nhp as the people they are, but on the flip side, I wonder about the aspect of portraying the deviations from that in the day to day lives of people

sleek monolith
#

Stormtalus I actually take... what might be a worse avenue for most "normal" people on say, a core world. The NHP are so ubiquitous that people don't even think about it. Sure "Selene" handles your schedule, makes sure you catch the right transit, gives you a nice playlist to listen to on your ride to work, gives you the news you like, but you start thinking of Selene as an App.

But then, say on a small colony with one NHP and everyone is a clone-stock, then they might see the NHP as almost a parent figure.

teal abyss
#

I believe it was Miguel who referenced the absurdity of talking about NHP rights to most people whose point of reference for them is as advanced AI who have a functional purpose, so it would be like advocating for rights for your laptop or car

polar pagoda
#

Horizon got a rough job

teal abyss
#

"most" being a word that's doing heavy lifting there, and I'd have to find the specific quote to be more precise

#

"some" is possibly more accurate

sleek monolith
#

after all, the colonial NHP's subalterns "raised" them

plucky brook
#

nods

sleek monolith
#

meanwhile, how I run battlegroup and ships is that NHP have become actual mastheads. They are beloved, hung out with, given preference and checked in with by all the crew. After all, the NHP represents your fortune and survival, and so the connections are there are a bit more personal and almost psuedo-religious.

Then you get down to pilots who have a direct one to one

plucky brook
#

Also: really like the section on 'writing/running NHPs'.

#

I'm a big sucker for that 'hey, peek behind the curtains' sorta section

teal cliff
#

It's something I thin about when portraying a world that has a spectrum of ignorance

plucky brook
#

I loved them in D&D 4e where they'd go 'Okay, setting aside all illusions, here's a section directly talking to the GM about how to make your job easier'

teal cliff
teal abyss
#

it's tricky, because as you do research you end up in a XKCD Silicate Chemistry situation

#

but I hope that what's there is useful to as many people as possible

teal cliff
#

Weird question. But as you were making this, how did your thoughts about the pitfalls of anthropomorphising nhp and the intentional tensions that aspect was meant to elicit evolve during the creative process?

sleek monolith
#

oooooooof. the cloning "DRM" gave me a creepy shudder.

teal abyss
# teal cliff Weird question. But as you were making this, how did your thoughts about the pi...

It's hard to say. I think I came into things from the perspective of wanting to interrogate why the setting exists in a way that implies a certain amount of internal conflict - basically I walked right into Miguel's expertly-placed trap. So when I realised what had happened the main emotion was gratification (which again appears to be intentional). Tom's comments about the dangers of anthropomorphisation were particularly interesting because it was something I'd come to somewhat independently but seeing his words helped crystallise out those thoughts.

Probably the biggest change in my thinking was in my overall level of confidence throughout the project. I started from a position of feeling like I was missing something and wanting to be 100% certain about what I was thinking before engaging with other people about it, to realising that the lore channel contains a lot of received wisdom and assumptions that I felt confident in perhaps challenging a little. I did also dial back a few of my own incorrect or shakily-founded assumptions and later versions of the book are somewhat less strident and more nuanced because of it (which I'd say is an improvement).

#

(also my gf is here so apologies if I can't follow up on questions for a while, have fun y'all)

teal cliff
#

Thanks for your answer!

nocturne goblet
#

My brain hasn't been in focus mode the week, but I've enjoyed the little I've managed to read so far. Me and my GM have been gushing about it fjdmdmmdmd

vivid snow
#

Also, re: the earlier religion discussion, I just wanted to chime in (belatedly) and say that Iā€™m an atheist, but the short story piece about the Farer and the station NHP actually helped me a lot in terms of understanding and relating to the role religion plays in peopleā€™s lives, not just in terms of a Cosmopolitan in Lancer but also in general terms as, like, a way to stay connected to the world in spite of whatever you may have going on in your life. It left a really good impression on me!

brisk gyro
#

Got a question less about legionnaire but more about NHPs as a whole and thatā€™s how exactly you interpret the relationship and circumstances between a technophile and their NHP. I acknowledge thereā€™s a certain amount of variance but do you think there are any common threads there that one might be able to pick out and run with

royal mesa
#

I still like the raw-as-fuck analogy someone in lancer-general once wrote

#

"You put a hurricane in a jar and drew a smiley face on it."

leaden pine
#

Thats from Miguel lmao

ivory jetty
#

shackling, pictured

Screen_Shot_2023-03-30_at_9.41.46_AM.png
novel ocean
#

Me naming my technophile NHP and fitting it into the smallest casket known to man

teal cliff
#

Which chapter was that again?

ivory jetty
#

wielder of names

rigid canopy
#

@teal abyss : Are you anticipating making revisions or adjustments to your book as either new content comes out, or you do you have plans to publish related NHP ideas?

teal cliff
#

oh man its been so long that Id forgotten that entire chapter

wary lava
#

I've always ran with the idea in the back of my mind that NHPs are energy math demons that humans found how to condense to roughly think like humans.

reef crater
#

"I just see a black box in a room when I look at their casket, as a fellow NHP, what do you see?"

"I see the cosmos as it is. As it was. As it will be. I see reality bending in on itself and out again. I see the infinite drawn down to a point no one could focus on. You see a box? I see a storm."

(I like to think NHP perceptions of our reality can sometimes just be wildly different than ours.)

reef crater
#

I'm reminded of this scene in Babylon 5. I've always really loved G'Kars lantern, wall, light, & shadow analogy.

I like to think as humans, we see the light on the wall, the box in the room. And an NHP might instead notice the lantern, or even look past the wall, or just be fixated on the light itself.

https://youtu.be/N_oQkSh2lq8

YouTube
Babylon5Wisdom
Book of G'Kar: "What is Truth, and what is God?"

Towards the end of the series, Ambassador G'Kar finds himself exalted to the role of reluctant spiritual guru of his people. This happens when his 'private diaries' are published, against his wishes! It becomes known as the Book of G'Kar. In this clip, he addresses some of his 'cult followers'.

ā–¶ Play video
#

They likely want to see the box we see as much as we might like to see the storm.

frank spoke
#

Hello all!

#

LET ME TELL YOU I AM HYPED FOR THIS

steep coral
#

is there a way to buy this post-kickstarter

rare shard
#

Yeah just go to the Itch page

steep coral
#

Could you possibly pin that

rare shard
ivory jetty
#

ha jinx

leaden pine
#

Ddffd

eternal ferry
#

Puppeted Nelson token, based on naruga's illustration!

image0-16.png
solid parrot
#

boy nelson's just not having a good time in this supplement huh

teal abyss
teal cliff
#

Word of Kat style - text revision no jutsu

#

has the pleasing acronym of Wok

fading plover
#

I really wanna play an NHP now

#

Dunno where to find a game where it would be allowed

#

But man this book really inspires me

teal abyss
teal cliff
#

Bearer of the Word Legion

teal abyss
teal abyss
#

it is also perfect timing since tomorrow I get to play my best girl Joanna who's rocking a NERGAL-class NHP

teal abyss
#

also, fun fact if you enjoy my writing, I wrote the majority of the server's new setting

vivid snow
#

šŸ‘€

#

I do not need more TTRPG communities to join... But that sounds tempting

versed solar
placid flame
teal abyss
#

on reflection I don't know if the server admin is okay with me openly sharing an invite link right now, but I suspect you could probably find it if you cared enough to look (we get a steady trickle of new folks who presumably are getting a link from somewhere)

#

(I think it's public knowledge that it was one of the places we were playtesting so it's not like I'm mentioning anything folks in this thread didn't already know in theory)

rare shard
#

fwiw I've never seen anyone reprimanded for invite links

vivid snow
#

If the server admin doesn't want a huge influx of new people, that's totally understandable

surreal owl
#

(I think itā€™s a Freelancer admin not PilotNet admin)

rare shard
#

oh nvm

vivid snow
#

In that case I'll probably not go looking to respect that boundary

teal abyss
#

it's more that we ran for quite a while with just three GMs and tons of players, and GMs were getting really burned out, the admin mostly wants people who are going to be engaged rather than folks looking for a drive-by game

teal cliff
#

id never heard of freelancers till rn lol

vivid snow
#

Gotcha, gotcha

teal abyss
#

still I think it's probably okay to share the setting wiki