#Field Guide to Suldan

1 messages · Page 9 of 1

swift mesa
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Niche is something I feel is important with NPC design for third party stuff.

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As the corebook has a lot of Really Good Basic Stuff.

tacit rampart
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Conscripts are funny because they aren’t disqualified from gaining Stress or taking the Champion or Commander Templates

swift mesa
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You'll find it hard to design Army Dudeman With Rifle better than the Assault.

tacit rampart
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Or I guess diamond isn’t really the accurate term

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More like iron motherloads

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In that they’re really valuable and you can use them for anything

swift mesa
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Oh, I'm not saying they're not good Suldan's NPCs are great. More just that the corebook tends to affect third party design by virtue of where it focuses.

tacit rampart
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I never thought you weren’t saying that, I’ve heard nothig but good things about Suldan’s NPCs ^^

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Niche isn’t a bad thing either

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It’s just that it’s a rare and good thing to find general use NPCs too

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Niche NPCs are still great tho, keeps players on their toes and tell’s them to scan for once in their life

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And can make for way more interesting encounters than any general NPC could

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Conscript’s Combat shield is… kinda confusing tho

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If it’s normally size 1/2 or size 1, then- ah wait nevermind

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When it said “1 size larger” I thought it meant like. In terms of space for a sec. Nope

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Pulling from IGF yet again, the Parallel is pretty niche. Still a fantastic NPC but you’re not gonna be able to use it often

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Gladiator seems like a fun Bully NPC

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Ya know speaking of Slinger, a Champion Slinger would go so hard <3

dusk arch
sacred storm
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Not sure if this question was mentioned yet but, if a Sentry Drone is using a GMS Howitzer and is put on an Omnibus plate, does the Howitzer now shoot a blast 3?

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Because if so, I have some Kidd jank to get up to.

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Time to load the displacer on the Sentry 😎

dusk arch
gray thistle
tacit rampart
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Accidentally put my Ogre thoughts in the wrong thread v_v

Anyway the Ogre’s got a good strong core gimmick, tho I do find it a bit odd that it’s very focused on a “one punch playstyle”, and that its base kit comes with two attack follow ups rather than just one and leaving the others optional. Though if you have an Elite or SpecOp Ogre I suppose that makes sense.

But at the end of the day that only helps reinforce a brawler playstyle, encouraging it to ram or grapple into Skirmish rather than Barrage. Makes a pretty scary Grapple Kidnapper, and a good general use NPC

south narwhal
tacit rampart
languid cosmos
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Because 1) you need to have an option in case the other doesn’t work and 2) you gotta have the mixup

tacit rampart
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Fair enough

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It just strikes me as a "Strider Problem"

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Eg. You take an optional Combo, and suddenly you have to juggle 3 instead of the base one and an optional

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Like how with strider it's a lot easier to run it with 2 kits and deleting whatever base kit you aren't using than adding an optional kit on top of the base kits

gray thistle
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Can the Sentry Drone equip integrated weapons? 🤔

dawn sedge
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RAW yes
RAI I'd say no, integrated weapons are deeply entangled with the frame they come with. It requires more effort to unmount a Mjolnir off a frame than to put any HMG down and let the drone pick it up (in fiction)

simple torrent
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doesn't this fall under how integrated weapons it specifically states that they cannot be destroyed, removed, replaced, or modified in any way

gray thistle
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Oh yeah, I guess it would

dusk arch
charred cairn
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currently painting up that matador I made a while back c:

image.png
charred cairn
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painted up the face, RPG and the knife! :D

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charred cairn
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so I think this so far should be the finished product! c:

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simple torrent
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hell yea

south narwhal
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How do you paint grey parts of a mech figure?

granite marsh
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I'm not a great artist, but I pick a color I want to replace the grey with + come up with a couple shades of that for the different shades of gray. and then fill bucket or pencil in GIMP on the shades of gray that match the right shade of my chosen color

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messing around with the HSL sliders (specifically the lightness one) instead of RGB helps to get "darker" iterations

charred cairn
nova slate
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Hmm, someone hit me on the skinny for the Retarius. My read is that it loves to be a relatively beefy bully, am I on track or missing the mark? For context, got a player interested in it.

gray thistle
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It's like an iskander and blackbeard had a baby

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Beefy, close-range, and makes good use of save systems

dusk arch
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Comparisons to the Iskander aren't massive off-base, though its own kit lends it a bit more of a close-range focus

gray thistle
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It's a pretty flexible frame, all things considered

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Reason I compare it to isk is because of the forced movement and high save target, making it a pretty good user of mines and other save target toys.

gray thistle
# 
[ LICENSES ]
  C&H RETIARIUS 2, HORUS Balor 2, SSC Black Witch 1, HA Gilgamesh 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Auto-Stabilizing Hardpoints, Overpower Caliber
[ TALENTS ]
  Heavy Gunner 3, Crack Shot 3, Combined Arms 2, Drone Commander 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:0 ENGI:4
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:23 ARMOR:1
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:11 REPAIR:6
  TECH ATK:0 LIMITED:+2
  SPD:4 EVA:7 EDEF:8 SENSE:10 SAVE:15
[ WEAPONS ]
  FLEX MOUNT: Charged Blade
  HEAVY MOUNT: Legionnaire Battle Rifle (Nanocomposite Adaptation) // Overpower Caliber, Auto-Stabilizing Hardpoints
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Personalizations, Swarm Body, Ferrous Lash, Hive Drone```
I like combining Swarm Body with more long-range weaponry what want you to stay immobile anyway.
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And retiarius is one of the better swarm body users out there imo

quaint beacon
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...I had no idea retiarius had ST12, that's nuts. I never really looked at it in depth before

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nutty, ST12 is my favorite stat

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I should build some... retiariuses? retiarii?

gray thistle
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Yeah, you should! Super flexible

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and its license systems are pretty sweet too

swift mesa
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ST12 is super rare but it's hard to be a bad mech with it, as it's great.

gray thistle
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And the rest of the frame is no slouch either

quaint beacon
gray thistle
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I heavily disagree with that, it's not that good

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It increases your odds with save stuff, but relative to 11 it's not that much higher, ultimately. Giving up too many other stats and tools can very quickly not be worth it.

gray thistle
# 
[ LICENSES ]
  C&H RETIARIUS 2, HORUS LICH 2, HORUS THIRDEYE 1, HA SUNZI 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  The Lesson of the Open Door, Auto-Stabilizing Hardpoints
[ TALENTS ]
  Centimane 3, Crack Shot 3, Nuclear Cavalier 2, SPACEBORN 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:0 ENGI:4
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:23 ARMOR:1
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:11 REPAIR:6
  TECH ATK:0 LIMITED:+2
  SPD:4 EVA:7 EDEF:8 SENSE:10 SAVE:17
[ WEAPONS ]
  FLEX MOUNT: MC-DWA Wasp Nexus / MC-DWA Wasp Nexus
  HEAVY MOUNT: Seeker Catapult // Auto-Stabilizing Hardpoints
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Unhinge Chronology, Wandering Nightmare, Personalizations, Scanner Charges x4, BLINK CHARGES x5```
Hmm, more Retiarius. Not saying these are highly optimized, but hopefully fun and useful.
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Focus on nexi and save target with heat shenganigans, some OClooping on top with Seeker Catapult

nova slate
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Reason my player is looking at it: A. Loves the aesthetic and B. Wants to play a more front line/bruiser style mech, his last run was artillery in a Pegasus

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Thanks folks! Dunno yet what he'll pick, but Ret seems like a fun one

gray thistle
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Yeah, that should work well regardless of what he does with it. Can't do much wrong with a ret, even if you do silly stuff like me

nova slate
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-- C&H RETIARIUS @ LL10 --
[ LICENSES ]
C&H RETIARIUS 3, IPS-N Zheng 2, IPS-N Tortuga 3, SSC White Witch 2
[ CORE BONUSES ]
Hypertuned Interface, Briareos Frame, Integrated Weapon
[ TALENTS ]
Executioner 3, Spaceborn 3, Juggernaut 2, Pankrati 2, Gladiator 2, Brawler 1
[ STATS ]
HULL:6 AGI:2 SYS:0 ENGI:4
STRUCTURE:4 HP:27 ARMOR:1
STRESS:4 HEATCAP:11 REPAIR:7
TECH ATK:0 LIMITED:+2
SPD:5 EVA:9 EDEF:8 SENSE:10 SAVE:17
[ WEAPONS ]
INTEGRATED WEAPON: MC-LMG Light Machine Gun
FLEX MOUNT: Tangler Cannon
HEAVY MOUNT: Blast Chain (Molten Wreathe)
[ SYSTEMS ]
Camus’s Razor, Total Strength Suite II, HyperDense Armor, Type-3 Projected Shield

Threw together a contender build for the ret, intent to get into the mix and then make it everyone elses problem, with a sideline into protecting teammates

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can definitely be refined but i think the idea is there

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note to the briareos take, houserule being run makes "destroyed" on the structure table "shut down" instead, which gives it a lot more reliability

gray thistle
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Not a big fan of Integrated Weapon here, doesn't feel like it does a lot?

Anything to make Briareos better 😌

nova slate
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yeah i was mostly straying from like a default choice of opcal or auto stabs, figured a free poke isn't the worst. there are deeeefinitely better picks though

gray thistle
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Hmm, fair, makes me feel some amount of shame over the Efreet build I just made :p

# 
[ LICENSES ]
  HORUS EFREET 2, HA SUNZI 2, HORUS Pegasus 1, HA Napoleon 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Overpower Caliber, Superior by Design
[ TALENTS ]
  HOUSE GUARD 3, Walking Armory 3, Crack Shot 2, SPACEBORN 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:2 SYS:0 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:21 ARMOR:2
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:10 REPAIR:6
  TECH ATK:+1 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:5 EVA:9 EDEF:10 SENSE:5 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  FLEX MOUNT: Smartgun // Overpower Caliber
  MAIN MOUNT: Smartgun
[ SYSTEMS ]
  BLINKSPACE TUNNELER, Stasis Bolt, Hunter Lock, Personalizations```
Bunch of teleport shenanigans for itself and allies, with some heavy firepower on the Smartgun with some fun with walking armory for potential burn. The Seeking ignoring the downside of the Efreet outside of sensor range is a bit cheesy, especially with the edge teleporting attached.
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(not sure about hunter lock, just... more damage if I do get in range 5 🤔 )

nova slate
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Nice way to help work down a stubborn target too

gray thistle
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Yeah, but I don't expect to use it a lot, not a bad thing

nova slate
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Trying to build a Kalista into more of a guardian instead of an aggro juggernaut, thoughts/advice/suggestions?

-- C&H KALISTA @ LL10 --
[ LICENSES ]
C&H KALISTA 2, C&H MATADOR 1, IPS-N Drake 2, IPS-N Nelson 1, SSC White Witch 2, HORUS Gorgon 1, SSC Black Witch 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
Blowout Panels, Gyges Frame, Overpower Caliber
[ TALENTS ]
House Guard 3, Executioner 3, Grease Monkey 3, Spaceborn 2, Gladiator 2
[ STATS ]
HULL:4 AGI:2 SYS:0 ENGI:6
STRUCTURE:4 HP:23 ARMOR:2
STRESS:4 HEATCAP:11 REPAIR:10
TECH ATK:-2 LIMITED:+3
SPD:4 EVA:8 EDEF:6 SENSE:5 SAVE:15
[ WEAPONS ]
MAIN MOUNT: Mortar
MAIN MOUNT: Magnetic Cannon
HEAVY MOUNT: Macuahuitl Chainsword // Overpower Caliber
[ SYSTEMS ]
Camus’s Razor, ECM Launchers x5, Ferrous Lash, Mimic Mesh, Custom Paint Job, Bulwark Mods

gray thistle
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I'm not sure the ECM Launchers will do much with an e-defense of 6

dusk arch
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ECM Launchers do create a cover zone anyone can benefit from while the effect lasts

gray thistle
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Yeah, and it's pretty big with a size 2 burst 1 🤔

Hmm

nova slate
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I could potentially swap around to get ice out instead, it's a bit more absolute

gray thistle
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Maybe, though would warrant getting Drone Commander 1 too, anything you don't mind dropping for that?

nova slate
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Could skate by on gladiator 1

gray thistle
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I think Glad 1 is plenty most of the time. 2 doesn't add that much extra value in my opinion

gray thistle
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New lancaster alt is great, I love it.

# 
[ LICENSES ]
  IPS-N Lancaster 2, IPS-N OVERLORD 1, HORUS EFREET 3
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Reinforced Frame, The Lesson of the Held Image
[ TALENTS ]
  Technophile 3, Spotter 3, BLACK THUMB 2, Orator 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:2 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:24 ARMOR:1
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:10 REPAIR:6
  TECH ATK:+3 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:6 EVA:10 EDEF:10 SENSE:15 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  MAIN/AUX MOUNT: Qublade / MC-DWA Wasp Nexus
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Enlightenment-Class NHP, Personalizations, MITHRA-Class NHP, MULE Harness, Armament Redundancy, Entanglement Leash, Whitewash Sealant Spray```
So here's one with Suldan stuff :p
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Qublade with mule harness shenanigans are just... too tempting

south narwhal
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I think I'd go Duelist 1 instead of Orator 1, so you can get the Qublade hits more easily.

gray thistle
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Yeah that'd work fine too. But since it has innate accuracy I think the orator will work quite nicely with how consistently I Lock On (or even Scan if they're invisible)

granite marsh
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orator doesn't work on lock on, no?

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it only works on the Scan quick tech, so not even your core power technically

gray thistle
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Am I using an old version? Hold up, let me check

granite marsh
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orator to the best of my knowledge has only ever worked with Scans, not lock ons?

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ah, no, the very very old pre-release of orator was very different but it did work on more than just scan

gray thistle
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1.5.1 had it be an automatic trigger when you used lock on or scan. Wasn't a reaction, didn't work for allies doing it, and was a contested system check instead of just a system check.

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New version I don't like as much. Doesn't work with Held Image 😔

granite marsh
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yeah the current version has been clarified to only work with just the Scan action, not even scans that you get incidentally (chomolungma etc.)

dusk arch
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My understanding is that when it was Lock On or Scan, basically nobody was using Scan to do it

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so Shaka made the change for that reason

gray thistle
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Yeah, which is fair

south narwhal
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Oh, Qublade is accurate.

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I did not know that.

gray thistle
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It's a very, very good weapon

dusk arch
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yeah, it gets the juice by virtue of kinda not being, like, a thing you do as much for damage first and foremost

gray thistle
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Amazing for objective control

dusk arch
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you get the accuracy and you get the variable threat and the effect, the tradeoff for which is you basically deal slightly less damage on average than a GMS tac melee

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it's pretty close to "tool as weapon"

gray thistle
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Also, very VERY funny Sunzi abduction shenanigans

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Well, not that the sunzi is lacking for tricks like that, but it's another neat one

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It does also have the additional threat over the tac melee

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The accuracy is nice but honestly if you're focusing on a main melee, the accuracy is not the issue

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Another factor to consider is that it's only really doing crazy things in combination with either the Sunzi, or the invade.

south narwhal
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I was kind of thinking of putting Autostab and Uncle on it to attack at neutral.

gray thistle
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That's... interesting 🤔

dusk arch
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I'm torn between the conflicting thoughts of "from a pure optimization standpoint that's probably not that good" and "actually that fucking owns, and is probably better than I bet most people would give it credit for"

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It's a LOT of investment, UNCLE and a core bonus is no small price, but you absolutely get what you pay for which is free 1/round teleport swaps

gray thistle
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I can see a chomo getting a lot of mileage out of that

frigid topaz
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I had a question about the Worden's Walking Fire trait. Can the range 3 be drawn after knockback is applied to the first target?

gray thistle
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You mean before you knock it out of range?

frigid topaz
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Actually I'm more interested in whether the target can be knocked into range

granite marsh
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i think it's "can you knockback something so it's now within range 3 of a new target"

dusk arch
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Walking Fire is an On Hit effect (technically On Crit, but On Crit is a subset of On Hit the way all squares are considered rectangles)

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As with everything in lancer, when simultaneous On Hit effects get dumped onto a target, you as the hitter decide which order they go in

frigid topaz
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Ty for the quick responses, though unfortunately it's kinda moot because I just realized Hammer U-RPL isn't a cannon

gray thistle
# 
[ LICENSES ]
  HORUS EFREET 3, IPS-N Raleigh 3
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Enhanced Systems Upgrade, Reinforced Frame
[ TALENTS ]
  Skirmisher 3, Nuclear Cavalier 2, Duelist 2, PANKRATI 1, Hacker 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:2 AGI:0 SYS:2 ENGI:4
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:24 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:10 REPAIR:5
  TECH ATK:+3 LIMITED:+2
  SPD:4 EVA:8 EDEF:12 SENSE:15 SAVE:14
[ WEAPONS ]
  MAIN/AUX MOUNT: Charged Blade / Tactical Knife
  FLEX MOUNT: Qublade (UNCLE-Class Comp/Con)
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Armament Redundancy, Personalizations, Entanglement Leash, Spatial Threader, Rapid Burst Jump Jet System, Expanded Compartment```
I don't think you need autostab (or reinforced frame*) for the uncle qublade. Can Slow them with an invade to get Pankrati 1 for neutral accuracy, or net positive with duelist.
dusk arch
gray thistle
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Or Hurricane Cluster Projector with Supermassive? 🤔

dusk arch
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HCP might be a fun one, low-range ordnance is kind of a challenge but it could potentially be doable

gray thistle
# 
[ LICENSES ]
  IPS-N WORDEN 2, IPS-N CALIBAN 1, SSC Death’s Head 3
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Auto-Stabilizing Hardpoints, Neurolink Targeting
[ TALENTS ]
  Technophile 3, Siege Specialist 2, BLACK THUMB 2, Ace 2
[ STATS ]
  HULL:2 AGI:2 SYS:0 ENGI:4
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:17 ARMOR:1
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:9 REPAIR:7
  TECH ATK:-1 LIMITED:+2
  SPD:4 EVA:9 EDEF:8 SENSE:15 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  HEAVY MOUNT: Hurricane Cluster Projector (SUPERMASSIVE MOD) // Auto-Stabilizing Hardpoints
  MAIN MOUNT: SUPERHEAVY WEAPON BRACING
  FLEX MOUNT: Charged Blade
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Personalizations, High-Stress Mag Clamps, Kinetic Compensator, Rapid Burst Jump Jet System```
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Yeah, not entirely sure

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being able to get SbD core bonus would help a lot too, and don't need to take neurolink if you have the barbie cannon 🤔

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Big advantage of it is being online at LL3 already

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So could just use it to transition into the barbarossa

languid cosmos
dusk arch
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Worden + Taraxacum

gray thistle
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I love Tara 😌

sacred storm
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I missed some good chatting!

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I wanted to ask, the Dulfan GMS Downburst Apex Nexus

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It has range 10 and line 5

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How exactly does this translate to using it?

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Do I choose to hit one target or project 5 spaces from my location---- or do I hit someone from 10 spaces and then project line 5 from their location?

dusk arch
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So, do you know how a "range 10, blast 1" weapon like the mortar works?

sacred storm
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Also, props to Charioteer, I love that mech's design.

I've wanted to build it as a lock on support, and also as a speedy melee striker.

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Ah! Yes!

dusk arch
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same principle

sacred storm
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Actually didn't make that connection.

dusk arch
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somewhere within range 10, you place a line 5

sacred storm
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That's fair.

dusk arch
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you can orient the line however you like

sacred storm
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Second question-----and that's answered.

dusk arch
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so it can be going straight out from you, or you can have it run perpendicular, etc

sacred storm
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You're too good at this 😂

dusk arch
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the apex nexus is essentially doing a gunship run

sacred storm
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Yeah

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That's actually really cool.

sacred storm
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That previous conversation has me wanting to slam that Horus Core Bonus on Reti

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For the +2 to save target

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And force the biggest saves

calm river
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Just had a player tell me that Kallista is just a shittier Blackbeard

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Can someone explain to me the differences so I can ratio this dumbass

dusk arch
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well they're kind of doing two fairly different things despite existing in the same overly reductive and broad field of "melee mechs"

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The Blackbeard is a fast and fairly aggressive striker with an emphasis on grappling, it has a lot of grapple focused stuff, traits that hook into it, it can boost/react while grappling and has a fairly high base speed

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its physical resilience is good but largely entirely bound up in having 12 HP, outside of that its defenses are kinda whatever IPS-N average

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its license kit is a mix of grapple facilitation and generally good melee weapons along with sekhmet which is a generally good Do More Damage facilitator that hooks into the Nanocarbon Sword especially well since extra attacks is extra Executioner proc chances, that's arguably its most striker-oriented thing

south narwhal
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You can put Hyperdense Armor on the Kalista without fear of being shredded.

swift mesa
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The blackbeard is also notably very sticky. It's a striker that it's hard to escape from.

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Due to that grapple focus

dusk arch
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The Kalista is a striker/defender, classified that way because the Kalista's big thing is physical resilience and durability. In terms of, idk, "bulk" (I'm not really familiar with this formula as it stands) the kalista has more armor for slightly less HP and immunity to Shredded

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it's bigger and much slower, but also has substantially much more repair cap, 8 to the blackbeard's 5

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it can be repaired from destroyed for only 2 repair cap, and its core power is essentially an "extra life"

south narwhal
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Hell, you could run it as an extremely resilient artillery mech.

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None of its traits require it to be melee.

dusk arch
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its license kit is a mix of physical durability enhancers, such as Repair Paste Capillaries and the OGOUN-Class NHP which are about taking hits and coming back from them/getting durability bonuses, while its melee weapons are hard hitting but somewhat unpredictable and based on exploding dice

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they very deliberately hook into Brutal 1 in a way that means a Brutal 1 proc instantly sets them to full damage

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Berserker Drive is also notably an extremely efficient way to use the mech's repair cap

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When used it essentially gives you the benefit of the Everest's Replaceable Parts for that activation

south narwhal
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I just used the Motorized Tetsubo's action can be used while Jammed

dusk arch
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It can, as can Tiger Claws

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the Kalista is big on just shrugging stuff off

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so fundamentally I would characterize the breakdown thusly

south narwhal
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God, putting SABR engines on a Kalista.

dusk arch
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the blackbeard is faster, much more straightforwardly a grapple-focused striker, with good physical durability for a melee striker but not to an outsized degree exactly

the kalista is slower, much more about tanking hits and ignoring various consequences such as damage, conditions, etc, with exceptional physical reserves in the form of high repair cap

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it has 8 repair cap, the lancaster which is widely renowned for being excessively repair cap'd up, has 10

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fundamentally I wouldn't class either mech in comparison to each other because they aren't really angling to do the same thing, thematically you get the "oh they have chainsaw weapons" but the kalista isn't trying to be a blackbeard

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if you want a way to break it down, the Blackbeard is akin to the Berserker NPC, while the Kalista is akin to the Demolisher

south narwhal
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Then I dunno, take the last two levels in Sunzi for Blinkspace Tunneler.

# 
-- C&H KALISTA @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  C&H KALISTA 3, SSC COMET 1, HA Sunzi 2
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Auto-Stabilizing Hardpoints, Overpower Caliber
[ TALENTS ]
  Executioner 3, Pankrati 2, Skirmisher 2, Duelist 2
[ STATS ]
  HULL:2 AGI:2 SYS:0 ENGI:4
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:19 ARMOR:2
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:9 REPAIR:9
  TECH ATK:-2 LIMITED:+2
  SPD:4 EVA:8 EDEF:6 SENSE:5 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  MAIN MOUNT: SUPERHEAVY WEAPON BRACING
  MAIN MOUNT: Tiger Claws
  HEAVY MOUNT: Motorized Tetsubo // Auto-Stabilizing Hardpoints, Overpower Caliber
[ SYSTEMS ]
  SABR Engines x3, Blinkspace Tunneler, Repair Paste Capillaries x4, Personalizations
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I thought maybe I'd be able to fit Jump Jets.

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@dusk arch Gajasura doesn't have an image in the LCP.

dusk arch
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it doesn't

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that's because it doesn't have art

south narwhal
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Ahh.

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Well, I made another fucked up one.

-- C&H GAJASURA @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  IPS-N Raleigh 3, HA Genghis 1, C&H KALISTA 2
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Auto-Stabilizing Hardpoints, Universal Compatibility
[ TALENTS ]
  Combined Arms 3, Duelist 2, Skirmisher 2, Vanguard 2
[ STATS ]
  HULL:2 AGI:4 SYS:0 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:21 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:7 REPAIR:9
  TECH ATK:-2 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:5 EVA:10 EDEF:6 SENSE:3 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  Integrated: Demon's Fang
  MAIN MOUNT: Shotgun
  HEAVY MOUNT: Krakatoa Thermobaric Flamethrower (UNCLE-Class Comp/Con) // Auto-Stabilizing Hardpoints
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Repair Paste Capillaries x3, Personalizations, Armament Redundancy
#

Demon's Fang is the kind of thing you want to use every turn.

onyx oxide
# granite marsh it only works on the Scan quick tech, so not even your core power technically

Orator 1 pairs nicely with the Taraxacum, either way, especially at lower LLs - in internal SotW playtesting, Orator 1 saw so much use from my character it became a running gag. It's an awful lot of value to attach to something as simple and automatic as Scan (and you also get to force your GM to pull shit out of their ass as you ask question after question about whoever you're Scanning)

gray thistle
gray thistle
# 
[ LICENSES ]
  HA AGRIPPA 3, C&H CHARIOTEER 3
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Autoextinguishers, Integrated Ammo Feeds
[ TALENTS ]
  Sysop 3, Drone Commander 3, Orator 3
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:2 SYS:0 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:21 ARMOR:2
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:9 REPAIR:8
  TECH ATK:0 LIMITED:+3
  SPD:4 EVA:8 EDEF:10 SENSE:10 SAVE:14
[ WEAPONS ]
  MAIN/AUX MOUNT: Assault Rifle / MC-LMG Light Machine Gun
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Personalizations, COURSER-Class C/C x4, Turret Drones x6, System Optimizer, Shock Pylons x5```
Very Suldan 😌
#

The one thing I dislike a bit is the DC3 and System Optimizer Overshield not stacking which is a liiittle awkward, but that's a bout it. Making both Scan and Bolster better is just making me happy, though

alpine stream
#

hey...can I ask a question not really related to the rules? It's kinda specific to Kaitave.

How much did it cost you to make a full blown module like Field Guide to Suldan? Like...making the art alone, playtesting, publishing, other stuff?

sacred storm
#

If the Charioteer could stack it's passive, what's the build that gives it the most movement? I'm working on something with lich 2 atm

#

You'd have haste, you'd have glide rollers.

A.... I just need to see some serious Charioteer builds

dusk arch
#

art is the biggest expense and the amount I have spent on suldan over the years is probably an "unwise" amount but, like, people will regularly commission art of their OCs or something

#

I didn't just drop multiple thousands of dollars all at once, it was spread out over time

#

but at this point it is definitely in the thousands of dollars range

south narwhal
# sacred storm You'd have haste, you'd have glide rollers. A.... I just need to see some serio...

Here's a serious Charioteer.

-- C&H CHARIOTEER @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  IPS-N Tortuga 3, C&H CHARIOTEER 2, IPS-N OVERLORD 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Reinforced Frame, Overpower Caliber
[ TALENTS ]
  Spotter 3, Vanguard 3, Grease Monkey 3
[ STATS ]
  HULL:6 AGI:0 SYS:0 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:26 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:7 REPAIR:5
  TECH ATK:+1 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:6 EVA:12 EDEF:8 SENSE:15 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  FLEX MOUNT: Deck-Sweeper Automatic Shotgun // Overpower Caliber
[ SYSTEMS ]
  HyperDense Armor, FCS Tacnet Relay, Rapid Burst Jump Jet System, Armament Redundancy, Expanded Compartment, Manipulators
dusk arch
#

I think, hold on

#

okay I did have some numbers written down, though it may not be super current

sacred storm
#

Hmmmmm

#

You can just be slowed and not care, huh?

south narwhal
#

You buddy up to a striker character and turn on your Hyperdense Armor. You then lock on as a free action, give it to them with Spotter 3, and FCS Tacnet Relay means you get +1 cc_accuracy with your shotgun blast.

#

If they end up running off, you can boost and BFE instead.

dusk arch
#

I've paid, cumuluatively to date, $5250 thereabout

alpine stream
#

im genuinely curious, cause I was theory crafting an expansive idea for a campaign, and I was writting down a structure of narrative and for fun I added notes to myself like (Place art of a battle here, place art for this NPC here)

And not including portraits or Icons its like 22 pieces which is alot

south narwhal
#

And you don't ever need to worry about the Armor being on.

dusk arch
#

yeah art is a big consideration which is why with the first party modules I've worked on, there's pretty specific and limited art budgets to work within

south narwhal
#

If you do wind up separated, you can just use the Lock On for yourself and it'll still boost an ally within sensors.

dusk arch
#

you need to pick and choose what you really NEED versus what you really WANT

#

Suldan is slapdash because it's my own personal pet project being worked on since 2019 or so

south narwhal
#

Yeah, this is helpful because I've got a project percolating in the toxic sludge of my brain meats.

alpine stream
#

how did you come up with the idea? Was this a home campaign that you decided to expand?

south narwhal
#

And I've been giving a friend moneys whenever I have the chance.

dusk arch
#

I don't really know how to answer "how did you come up with the idea" type questions

#

I had the idea because I had it

alpine stream
#

right, me too, but I havent playtested yet

dusk arch
#

I went "I have some ideas, I should get them down on paper" and I put them down, and then I kept working on it when I had more ideas

south narwhal
#

Same. Once I get the outlines of everything, I'm going to need to make an LCP and ask folks to playtest. I'll probably have to run it myself.

dusk arch
#

Suldan started out as me working on the C&H mech licenses and the flavor text painted an impressionistic picture of the setting they existed in, then I later went back and started fleshing that out with more detail, then I had ideas for things like specialty licenses and I did that, then I had more ideas for setting/GM stuff, etc

#

creating stuff isn't a process of sitting down and going "I'm going to make a 300 page field guide, it will have X, Y, and Z content, it will contain this many mech frames and this many NPCs"

#

frankly I think trying to create from an outline like that is highly deranged

alpine stream
#

for me...I always wanted to make a combined Battlegroup/Lancer campaign, and also homebrew a ground army spin off game in the same setting, having everything be entangled and work together

I dont have any homebrew gear, but i started adding more mechanical stuff to the downtime, and other stuff,

Then I thought of lore, history, timeline, and cool npcs and alt frames to go with this setting

south narwhal
#

I'm actually doing things in a different order. The world I've come up with has been one I've been playing with my friends in a freeform RP.

#

It's not Lancer, but I know most of how to port it to the Lancer universe.

south narwhal
#

Okay, Kai, question. If you have FCS Tacnet Relay and an Autopod, and an ally consumes Lock On, the Autopod firing doesn't use the Tacnet benefit since it doesn't make an attack roll?

dusk arch
south narwhal
#

Hell yes.

cobalt prairie
#

💭 govardhana micromissiles gilgamesh gunslinger...

sacred storm
#

Gajasura can also Sabr Engine safely.

Must explore this more.

harsh onyx
#

Have a question about auto-adjusting weight weapon mod, does that also give a melee weapon that previously doesn't have thrown, the thrown 3 property? Or only boost the thrown property of a melee weapon by +3?

languid cosmos
#

if it doesn't have Thrown, it doesn't have a Thrown range

south narwhal
#

It's like how Stabilizer Mod won't do anything for a Railgun or Krakatoa.

alpine stream
#

how do you use the Advanced Combat Rifle, Modular in CompCon? It says you should be able to put on 2 mods on this rifle. Does it work on CompCon?

quaint beacon
#

no, comp/con has no framework for it, so you just have to fudge it

#

I usually just leave the SP open and say "hey GM I also have phase mod on this" or whatever

#

and manually edit the build stub comp/con gives you

alpine stream
#

has anyone ever made a discord bot before? I wanna see if I can make a Suldan Duel Bot

#

something that can handle suldan style duels

final forum
hushed pine
#

so an Improv attack becomesd 2d6?

image.png
#

and with brawler it becomes 3d6+2

ionic badger
#

That's correct

hushed pine
#

ah oki

south narwhal
#

You could also take Mount Retrofitting, put a Main Melee on, and ram someone.

hushed pine
#

but i want to improv attack

jagged ibex
#

Sometimes you just want to punt someone in the head with your bare fist

alpine stream
#

Duelist 3 allows a free ram upon a melee attack

alpine stream
#

has anyone ever homebrewed or expanded upon the dueling rules for Suldan? Cause I wanted to see if there were other things that players could do, specifically to gain an advantage in PvP. Things like...

"I want to scout the terrain of the Arena"

"It's full of deep water"

"Oh...I have an EVA Module installed"

And have that give them accuracy or something?

#

Or maybe a way to invoke their background or triggers to gain a bonus for a contested roll

hushed pine
alpine stream
#

then again an improvised attack is not a ram, so do rams not count for the brawler talent?

south narwhal
alpine stream
#

what are some good weapons to put on the Pesilat

#

?

#

All you ever want to do is improvised attacks, right?

hushed pine
hushed pine
hushed pine
alpine stream
#

what about dual pistols?

#

Gunkata time

hushed pine
#

yea that could do

alpine stream
#

I was thinking about adding gunslinger to the build

At LL3 I could have gunslinger and brawler maxed out. Its thematic, but not sure if effective

hushed pine
#

wait how would gunslinger be thematic

alpine stream
#

if I am trying to use Improvised attacks every round what could I use?

#

Have you ever watched Equilibrium?

hushed pine
#

nnnope

alpine stream
hushed pine
#

nnno ive mever seen it

alpine stream
#

very silly movie, cool fight scenes. Basically gunfu

hushed pine
#

but im guessing its some gun-fu kind of movie?

#

yea

alpine stream
#

maybe it would be better to solely focus on Martial arts/invading, but idk

alpine stream
#

I have a question about dueling

#

if during the initiative phase both players do stuff, and it doesnt say whether or not one player gains the initiative, what happens? Do I repeat the initiative phase again or treat the winner of a roll as seeizing the initiaitive?

I had a steady approach and a headlong charge. Headlong charge won with +20, so they dealt 2 hits. Does Headlong Charge player seize the initiaitve?

dusk arch
alpine stream
#

from page 81

Seizing the Initiative
At the beginning of a duel both duelists square off against each other in the Initiative
Phase, looking for openings and weaknesses to exploit. Both of them want to seize the
Initiative over the other, which will allow them to attempt to score decisive blows and
secure victory for themselves. At this point in a duel there are three maneuvers that both
duelists can select from: Steady Approach, Guarded Advance, and Headlong
Charge. Each duelist chooses one of these maneuvers in secret, then both of them reveal
their maneuver at the same time.
Next, if a roll is called for then both duelists will make a contested check, rolling 1d20 and
comparing results; no triggers or other modifiers such as Grit are added to this roll. The
duelist who rolls highest wins the exchange. Winning the exchange here can grant one of
the duelists Initiative, which moves the duel onto the next phase, but may also result in a
duelist taking hits as well. If neither duelist seizes the Initiative, continue selecting
maneuvers and making contested checks until Initiative is seized.

#

so the one who wins gains initiative regardless of whether or not it is explicitly stated. Correct?

dusk arch
#

Winning the exchange here can grant one of the duelists Initiative, which moves the duel onto the next phase, but may also result in a duelist taking hits as well. If neither duelist seizes the Initiative, continue selecting maneuvers and making contested checks until Initiative is seized.

dusk arch
#

if it isn't explicitly stated, then it doesn't happen

alpine stream
#

ok

south narwhal
alpine stream
#

oh

#

including improvised attacks and ramming?

south narwhal
#

Yep.

#

And then you can eventually take Integrated Weapon and put a pistol or something in, and Combined Arms 3 for extra accuracy on the improvised attack.

sacred storm
#

Does Overlord-->Tacnet-->Ally consumes lock on gain accuracy on next attack----does this work on Tech Attacks?

This sounds kind of fun ngl.

dusk arch
#

Attacks is attacks

#

like how Invisibility imposes a 50% miss chance on all attacks or Prone gives +1 Accuracy on all attacks against that guy

#

in lancer, if something is specifically formulated against/for one subset of attacks it will have to specify (i.e. "ranged and melee attacks" etc)

#

if it doesn't, then it's any and all attacks

sacred storm
#

I need to try Leviathan Charioteer with an ally giving me Haste.

Boost in with rollers! BLAM! run away. or move in and boost away.

dusk arch
#

I think @quaint beacon made some leviathan charioteer builds at one point

quaint beacon
#

Yeah leviathan Charioteer is a good time

It's actually a shockingly good frame for selfish striker builds if you do some wacky stuff

sacred storm
#

Am I slow? Am I?!?!?!?!

(Dashes in 24 spaces)

south narwhal
#

I can't believe C&H made a Skyrim stealth archer.

#

"I'm going to play through Overthrow the Emir again, and try a different build, maybe melee and hacking."
wakes up at the end of the game in a Sagittarius/Metalmark
"God damn you, Todd Howard!"

sacred storm
#

Dude, it's just optimal. Then again, any build that can be 100'd with a rubber band deserves praise.

#

I love me a good Skyrim Stealth Archer meme though.

grand zenith
#

my player's just figured out the ECM Launchers / Scorpion combo. seems pretty nasty when you look at it!

south narwhal
# 
-- SSC Swallowtail @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  SSC Swallowtail 2, SSC COMET 1, HORUS Goblin 1, HORUS Pegasus 2
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Neurolink Targeting, Integrated Weapon
[ TALENTS ]
  Centimane 3, Gunslinger 3, Skirmisher 2, Spaceborn 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:2 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:19 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:6 REPAIR:7
  TECH ATK:+3 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:6 EVA:10 EDEF:12 SENSE:20 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  INTEGRATED WEAPON: Colony Nexus
  FLEX MOUNT: Autopod
  AUX/AUX MOUNT: Colony Nexus / Colony Nexus
[ SYSTEMS ]
  H0R_OS System Upgrade I, Eye of HORUS, Personalizations, Armament Redundancy, Hunter Lock
south narwhal
# 
-- HORUS Hecatoncheires @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  SSC Atlas 2, SSC MICROMONARCH 1, HORUS Balor 2, HORUS Goblin 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  The Lesson of the Held Image, Auto-Stabilizing Hardpoints
[ TALENTS ]
  Heavy Gunner 3, Nuclear Cavalier 2, Skirmisher 2, Stormbringer 2
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:0 ENGI:4
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:19 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:9 REPAIR:5
  TECH ATK:+1 LIMITED:+2
  SPD:5 EVA:10 EDEF:10 SENSE:10 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  MAIN MOUNT: MC-AML Anti-Armor Missile Launcher
  HEAVY MOUNT: Teen Baan Missiles // Auto-Stabilizing Hardpoints
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Jäger Kunst I, H0R_OS System Upgrade I, Scanner Swarm, Armament Redundancy, Personalizations
sacred storm
#

I hesitate to ask, what is that Strikertail build?

#

Frame has 20 sensors, why do you want to be close?

dusk arch
#

close range gunslinger/aux melee swallowtail builds are a thing for that reason

#

it's one of the easiest ways to mitigate the main downside of aux weapons, that being armor

sacred storm
#

Oh----

#

That's kind of funny.

south narwhal
#

Yep. It also means I'm ⅔ of the way to Neurolink.

gray thistle
#

Lots of fun additions to potential gunslinger builds in suldan that enable it in different ways.

#

Main/aux mount? Pointman's underbarrel breacher; also has shredded!

#

Comet's Colony Nexus, Whitestar Signal Interference

#

the 1 dmg AP wasp nexus

#

But also Saboteur Drone, Blast Chain, Weapon Pod, Sirroco Machine Pistol

#

Blast Chain's an odd one, but just imagine it on a gunslinger retiarius. Has high save target to start with

# 
[ LICENSES ]
  C&H RETIARIUS 3, C&H TALWAR 1, IPS-N Blackbeard 1, IPS-N Nelson 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Auto-Stabilizing Hardpoints, Integrated Weapon
[ TALENTS ]
  Gunslinger 3, Combined Arms 3, Skirmisher 2, Vanguard 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:0 ENGI:4
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:23 ARMOR:1
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:11 REPAIR:6
  TECH ATK:0 LIMITED:+2
  SPD:4 EVA:7 EDEF:8 SENSE:10 SAVE:15
[ WEAPONS ]
  INTEGRATED WEAPON: MC-LMG Light Machine Gun
  FLEX MOUNT: Sirocco Machine Pistol / Sirocco Machine Pistol // Auto-Stabilizing Hardpoints
  HEAVY MOUNT: Blast Chain
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Armament Redundancy, Personalizations, Bulwark Mods, Synthetic Muscle Netting, Temblor Pulse-Field Generator, Custom Paint Job```
Not using centimane here, but also seems fun
#

Also not sure whether I'd prefer wasp nexus, pistol, or the LMG in the integrated 🤔

#

Raleigh 2 would be real nice too, or gladiator 1, or... So many options

#

Combined arms is also not necessary, but hm

sacred storm
#

It gets it's workout on Storte, you can even reload the blast chain that way.

gray thistle
#

I've kinda memoryholed storte

sacred storm
#

Although, now that I'm looking at it, Sirocco seems funny on Storte.

Although you more or less want the cone for the non loading version----

.... not as good as I had hoped.

sacred storm
gray thistle
#

Yeeeah

sacred storm
#

Hahahaha.

#

I'm sorry to hear that.

I haven't had a session with a storte yet.

#

I'm excited to show it off to the other guys ngl.

#

Part of me wants to run Slug Gun Storte, using Talwar.

#

And I then gotta find a main melee to reload it with.

gray thistle
#

Talwar is neat

#

Wish rams/grapples reloaded too

#

For stort

#

Bah, nvm that actually. Not going into that here

sacred storm
#

You just gotta use duelist 3 to keep the attack roll, lol.

Or use a good cone weapon and hedge your bets literally against the masses.

#

Can do a funny with genghis 1's flamethrower and the Suldan GMS Shotgun.

Assuming that's a main, if that's a heavy then Agrippa 1

#

The gms shotgun is heavy* agrippa 1 is cone 5 though.

sacred storm
#

Also that's ranged on Ranged, so forget I said anything >.>

You'd use the catalytic hammers

bright olive
#

real duel hours

image.png
hushed pine
#

you have a .8 percent of getting that so that in of itself is amazing

sacred storm
#

Glide rollers make me feel like a drifting race car. I just need to convert it into more value somehow.

#

Real Initial D energy ngl

#

Also quick check.
But Bulwark+Glide Rollers doesn't make me ignore the then-dangerous terrain, right?

languid cosmos
#

Bulwark is difficult only

dusk arch
#

The more specific answer is that Glide Rollers don't allow you to do that particular end run, no

south narwhal
#

Would Bulwark and All Environment Adaptation combined do it?

dusk arch
#

Yep

sacred storm
#

Are the spatial threader effects a quick action themselves? Effectively making them a full action when accounting for the bolster?

dusk arch
#

the same way that an Invade system doesn't take another quick action to make someone Eject Power Cores after you successfully hack them

cobalt prairie
#

ah i just came over to ask the same thing, good to know

trail quarry
#

I'm not sure if this is the ideal place to put this, but I've been reading Kai Tave's (I assume it's bad form to ping massif staff?) thoughts that I could find regarding the stunned / the structure damage table and the most relevant quotes I could find are:

I think 90% of peoples' issues with Stunned in Lancer come directly from the structure damage results table
if Stunned existed in its core rulebook state BUT was not a structure damage result and was instead simply a thing NPCs could sometimes do with Sap or the Demolisher Hammer or Drain Systems etc, I don't think people would really find it that much of an issue
and
I also think that a lot of the failure points of lancer's attritional system (e.g. "I rolled snake eyes on my first 2 dice structure check and my mech died, this sucks") are things that can be addressed by tuning those particular points rather than moving to a non-attritional dynamic (e.g. just make different/better structure damage tables)

which I find particularly interesting given the next quote (found in this thread)

I know some folks have made revised structure damage tables which is cool but not what I'm personally interested in

Does this make it safe to say that Hypertuned Interface is Kai Tave's preferred solution to the "1/6 chance of getting stunned"? Why does this stop at Stunned and not address the snake eyes at 2 Structure?

If you see this Kai, I'll be curious to know more about why you believe that while better structure damage tables effectively address problems in the current attrition system, that it is something that you don't find interesting.

Sorry if this is a bad place to start this kind of discussion, but it feels the most relevant given the relevancy of Hypertuned Interface to the discussion and Suldan as Kai Tave's own personal project. Hopefully this isn't too rude to ask/post about 😅

dusk arch
#

Beyond the fact that as a project it's somewhere around 8 years old give or take and my takes on lancer have refined over 8 years of experience, Suldan is not intended to feature "core rulebook change" type material

#

that is to say, in terms of what I am doing with Suldan, it is strictly additive, not "here's some special Lancer 2.0 stuff wedged in there," that is not something I am interested in doing with it, and honestly not personally interested in doing the same way that people like Maria are with her Crisis Core Catalogue, it's a different area of interest and design focus

#

Hypertuned Interface therefore exists in a context of "assume the structure damage table is going to be unchanged, this is a core bonus that softens that"

#

a lot of people run Stunned with house rules surrounding it too, like "stunned only acts as bad as braced" or "stunned is some new kind of status," but I can't (and don't want to) account for those either

trail quarry
#

Thanks for the informative reply 🙂 I'm currently working on my own homebrew and was trying to decide how to approach this situation given how my experience DM'ing it has played out and figure out whether or not I wanted to do include something like what Maria has done, something like Hypertuned Interface, or nothing at all and leave solving that to the table

dusk arch
#

To be clear, this isn't anything against people who do work in this area, Maria's stuff is real good and I recommend people check it out

#

I think in some hypothetical Lancer 1.5 edition or whatever that I would say the easiest solution to a lot of peoples' issues with structure damage and stunned etc WOULD be just "make the tables different"

trail quarry
#

Oh yeah for sure, their stuff was what originally introduced me to the concept and while I haven't played with it yet (been tinkering with my own version), I know a lot of people really like it

#

But this context definitely helps me understand why you went with what you did for Suldan and will help me continue to form my own ideas on what I want to do

#

So thanks a ton for the help 😁

grand zenith
#

if a phantom chooses to enter while intangible, its phase blade would become charged as normal, right?

dusk arch
#

this is why it has the "can't attack first turn" qualifier

#

otherwise it could immediately deactivate the phase generator as a protocol and make a charged attack

near dove
#

Question regarding the Saladin Fearkiller:

The Core Passive's pull, does it supercede immobilized or not?

dusk arch
#

It's intentionally done that way to enable movement while systems that self slow or immobilized, like some shield systems, are active

wicked tangle
#

For the Fearkiller frame how does Tachyon Surge actually work?

I got through it up until it talks about any effects triggered from using this CP part and got confused

dusk arch
#

Any effects triggered from spending CP can be used as well as a part of this reaction, even if they could normally only be taken during your own turn.

# 

Any time you spend CP to activate a CORE SYSTEM, you may also take a free action to restore all HP, cool all HEAT, and roll 1d20: on 20, regain 1 CP.```
#

You can't take free actions when it isn't your turn

#

Without that clause, Tachyon Surge could never benefit from Universal Compatibility, or anything else that happens to work like it

wicked tangle
#

Oh! Is that the extent of what that last clause does?

dusk arch
#

in a way designed to encapsulate anything else someone might have made that works along similar lines, yeah

rancid fossil
#

Question: On a Charioteer, would Glide Rollers be able to activate while Slowed, considering it "part of the boost", or would it not? Thanks in advance!

dusk arch
rancid fossil
#

Well, thank you, Kai Tave!

storm tartan
#

hey is anyone else having the issue that combat shields aren't actuatlly increasing conscript health in comp/con?

granite marsh
#

they just don't have that automated. the LCP data just says the +2 without any bonus like the ultra +5 hp bonus

#

so no you're not hallucinating but no it's not something you can fix by pressing the right buttons

jagged ibex
jagged ibex
#

I was struggling to find something to prevent my Barbarossa playing from raining fire from the far side of the map, since he would outrange even the Bombards.
Then I found the Valkyries

bright olive
#

would the sabreur’s shield array follow a calendula into intangibility?

dusk arch
# bright olive would the sabreur’s shield array follow a calendula into intangibility?

Technically no. How Intangiility interacts with things like a station-keeping drone is unclear (that is, not spelled out in the rules) but Intangibility isn't forced movement (which it would be immune to, even then I'm not sure the interaction is clear) and doesn't affect one's drones, deployables, etc. The end result of this is being shunted intangible would technically leave the drone where it is

olive blaze
#

Hey y'all, I'm starting a Suldan campaign and strongly considering Efreet! Here's my LL6 build. Currently, my copilots are primarily considering Nelson/Blackbeard, Goblin, and Swallowtail. Let me know what you think of the build!

-- HORUS EFREET @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
HORUS EFREET 3, HA Sunzi 3
[ CORE BONUSES ]
The Lesson of Thinking-Tomorrow’s-Thought, Heatfall Coolant System
[ TALENTS ]
House Guard 3, Skirmisher 3, Blade Dancer 3
[ STATS ]
HULL:2 AGI:2 SYS:4 ENGI:0
STRUCTURE:4 HP:15 ARMOR:2
STRESS:4 HEATCAP:6 REPAIR:5
TECH ATK:+5 LIMITED:+0
SPD:5 EVA:9 EDEF:14 SENSE:5 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
FLEX MOUNT: Slipgun
MAIN MOUNT: Qublade
[ SYSTEMS ]
Entanglement Leash, Blinkspace Tunneler, Metafold Shunt, IBEJI-Class NHP, Final Secret

south narwhal
#

I'd take at least Duelist 1 somewhere

olive blaze
gray thistle
#

Don't need duelist as badly since qublade is innately accurate, though it'll still be good. Esp if you get impaired (no superior by design here)

6 heatcap with heatfall coolant is quite risky. Can't ever safely oc twice in a row even with a low oc roll. 6 is already on the low end for ll6

#

Ibeji and blinkspace also cost heat, so, hmm

#

I would switch out heatfall coolant for superior by design. Makes it much less attractive to invade you, and gives you some breathing room for ibeji and the like

#

(I'd also drop 2 points of systems and put that into hull or engineering, taking personalizations instead of metafold shunt. You're vulnerable to get structured at 15 exactly, and your low sensor range makes it hard to do things too often with your invade)

olive blaze
#

Heard, @gray thistle ! I was counting on Metafold Shunt to help close the gap with enemies out of range and give me more movement options; is Final Secret too good to drop over Metafold Shunt?

Also, I had considered dropping the 3rd ranks of all those talents to take the full 3 talents in NucCav to both give myself another Overwatch option (and a ranged one within sensor range) and help offset Heat, though sadly the Danger Zone buffs from NucCav I & II are only 'on your turn'...Do you think it'd be worth it?

gray thistle
gray thistle
#

Also no, not unless you invest a lot more into heat cap, at least 10

jagged ibex
#

(art by FPTheFluffyPawed)

jagged ibex
#

On attack, this weapon automatically deals X AP energy damage to all cover, terrain, and deployables in its area

Is the Termite's Laser Drill intended to be able to blast through an obstruction and still attack the target behind it?

swift mesa
#

I believe that is the intent. Hence being on-attack instead of on-hit

jagged ibex
#

we were thinking that too but we weren't sure if that's legal by the way is worded right now, since you can't declare an attack against an invalid target in the first place

timber turtle
jagged ibex
#

good point

olive blaze
#

Can the Efreet's Co-Location Matrix's Anomalous Interdiction reaction trigger House Guard III?

olive blaze
#

And I made some slight adjustments, trying to account for low heat capacity and heat cost of systems. I would put more into Engineering, but I don't have any limited systems...

-- HORUS EFREET @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
HORUS EFREET 3, HA Sunzi 2, HA Genghis 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
The Lesson of Thinking-Tomorrow’s-Thought, Superior by Design
[ TALENTS ]
House Guard 3, Skirmisher 3, Blade Dancer 3
[ STATS ]
HULL:2 AGI:2 SYS:4 ENGI:0
STRUCTURE:4 HP:15 ARMOR:2
STRESS:4 HEATCAP:8 REPAIR:5
TECH ATK:+5 LIMITED:+0
SPD:5 EVA:9 EDEF:14 SENSE:5 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
FLEX MOUNT: Slipgun cc_aoe_cone3
MAIN MOUNT: Qublade cc_threat1d3+1 cc_damage_kinetic4
[ SYSTEMS ]
Entanglement Leash, Blinkspace Tunneler, Metafold Shunt, IBEJI-Class NHP, Explosive Vents

#

(Also btw, if anyone has recs for soundtracks/artists/genres/playlists/etc. to pull for Suldan, I'm all ears!)

junior river
#

sorry to bother, but does anyone have version 2.1.9 of the suldan lcp? i need to update some old mechs

jagged ibex
#

why that one specifically? The lcp is on version 2.2.6 by now

olive blaze
dusk arch
nimble lily
#

show me the text of it?

olive blaze
nimble lily
#

yeah, IMO would trigger. It's not an explicit reduction but it certainly feels in the spirit

eager cedar
#

it gives them resistance, that's an explicit reduction(in the same way as argonaut shield)

jagged ibex
dusk arch
#

yes

#

the laser drill can be used in that fashion

jagged ibex
#

thank you

hybrid cedar
#

I really love the pilot stuff in this

junior river
nova slate
#

question, if a talon drone is jammed

#

does that mean anything

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to the chimera?

#

does it actually stop the drone from firing?

#

cause the chimera is the source of the attack right?

dusk arch
nova slate
#

i dont think so but now that the question is faced at me im filled with doubt

dusk arch
#

It doesn't because the nexus isn't making the attack

# 
BARRAGE attacks as though it is still a weapon```
#

operative word "you"

#

talon drones are functionally identical

nova slate
#

ok thats what i thought

#

thank you

south narwhal
#

Which is why you can't fire a deployed Ghast Nexus when you're jammed.

meager laurel
#

what would be the best explanation for C&H Equipment making its way into the Long Rim? trying to figure it out for one of my players

dusk arch
#

you don't have to physically ship C&H equipment somewhere, you just need someone with a computer

meager laurel
#

I mean yeah fair enough- printcode can make it to wherever with an omninode connection but I was trying to come up with some story for how the printcode ended up with the pilot like the little blurbs in Wallflower or IGF

languid cosmos
#

a wealthy businessman in the rim developed an obsession with suldan mech sports. unfortunately, he didn't develop a matching skillset, and his freshly-crashed mech came up for auction cheap

#

A Voladore trader offers a great deal on a new license you've never heard of, as he claims it is "broken." When you print it, it seems to work just fine.

#

A pickup game with a group of Mirrorsmoke Mercenaries ends in a bar fight, a night in the drunk tank, and a suggestion to check out an omninet mech racing broadcast. One of your new friends passes along a number for a supplier for the league, in case you're interested, and a challenge for a race next time you meet.

meager laurel
#

The Vol or Supplier ones could work... Thanks for the inspiration!

languid cosmos
#

sure thing!

gentle forge
dreamy peak
#

For the Reaper Dart's Stabilized Platform, which comes first? The FLAT size based Reliable value (1, 2, 3) or the +1 to an existing value?

The Legionaire Battle Rifle has created a situation where a rifle does not have a native reliable value, but, can gain reliable as a flat, additive value on top of itself. Does Stabilized Platform apply 3 reliable to the weapon when it isnt spending a charge, but adding +1 to the value whenever it does? Or does spending a charge add to the native 3 value imparted by the core bonus?

dusk arch
hybrid cedar
#

the wasp nexus is so good at personally obliterating any grunt mechs

gray thistle
dreamy peak
# dusk arch

Ah! Thanks, I couldnt search the thread to see if the question was asked.

fossil wharf
#

Ok, I just spotted some wording that could lead to some mild shenanigans. The +1 Difficulty from the Active Defense System only applies to the owner of the system if they are in the Burst 2 field, correct?

dusk arch
fossil wharf
#

Ok just making sure I was reading it wrong

wet trench
# 
[ LICENSES ]
  HORUS Gorgon 3, IPS-N Nelson 3, HA Sherman 2, C&H MATADOR 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  The Lesson of the Open Door, Gyges Frame, Mount Retrofitting
[ TALENTS ]
  Blade Dancer 3, Skirmisher 3, Bruiser 3, Hunter 2, House Guard 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:2 AGI:4 SYS:0 ENGI:5
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:21 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:10 REPAIR:4
  TECH ATK:+1 LIMITED:+2
  SPD:6 EVA:12 EDEF:12 SENSE:8 SAVE:19
[ WEAPONS ]
  FLEX MOUNT: Viral Knife / Viral Knife
  RETROFITTED MOUNT: War Pike / Viral Knife // Mount Retrofitting
  MAIN MOUNT: Vorpal Gun
[ SYSTEMS ]
  SCYLLA-Class NHP, Redundant Systems Upgrade x3, ECM Launchers x4, //SCORPION V70.1, Bulwark Mods```
don't invade or force saves on me or my son ever again (and also just don't use Smart weapons at all)
#

bruiser 1 to fish for dancer crits, bruiser 3 to goad hackers into repeated fail-invades w/ ECM, scorpion and viral knives

#

rsu and high eng for general longevity and SCYLLA-spam

south narwhal
#

No Black ICE?

#

I'd drop Nelson for Black Witch to make use of both that and Ferrous Lash.

wet trench
#

hold up. i posted in the wrong channel. uhh, thanks for the advice tho! ^v^;

grand zenith
#

@dusk arch i'm not sure if this is better asked here or in the rebake thread but -- having rebuilt the core book npcs, would you go back and remove the multiattack from the Valkyrie and just give it scaling damage like the rebakes?

Three 7-damage attacks recreates a lot of the issues you're trying to fix in the rebake, but part of the valkyrie's core gimmick is being able to move around inbetween attacks, so not sure what would be the best thing to replace that tbh

dusk arch
gentle forge
south narwhal
#

Attacking multiple people is more like an AoE than a multiattack.

grand zenith
#

A blast melee attack 🤔

fair sandal
#

Hey for balde dancer,
Is there a limit for dervish cadence? Like couldn’t it theoretically go on forever against a clustered group of enemies? For reference I have 20 evasion and battle tempo gives an inaccuracy to reaction attacks, basically no one can hit me unless they got two accuracy’s hanging out, even then they woudl have to roll very high. I’m just asking because by the way balde dancer is written there nothing preventing you from attacking the same person twice if you can move in and out.

#

As I’m writing this i realize every character gets one reaction

dusk arch
#

Blade Dancer chaining is by design

#

and yes, characters by default only get 1 reaction per turn, and overwatch is also only 1/round

fair sandal
#

Welllll

#

Theoretically an ultra can over watch an unlimited amount of times per round

#

And since balde dancer forces an enemy to over watch

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Given you have either the HP or the evasion to take attacks

#

Technically you could totally goof an ultra pretty easily

#

The unlimited overwatch/reactions is part of the ultra template I believe so as long as your DM puts up with it.

dusk arch
#

Reflex doesn't get around that

#

Reflex simply says "instead of Overwatch being 1/round for Ultras, it's Unlimited/round," but the base reaction rules of 1/turn still apply

#

There is one thing in the game that breaks the 1/turn limit on reactions and it's the Gorgon

eager cedar
thorny loom
#

Been looking into Lancer's 3rd party content, and the itch.io pdf download for Field Guide to Suldan is pretty borked. Does anyone else have the same issue? Anyone got a pdf to share?

image.png
dusk arch
#

Not to say this isn't happening on your end, but I'm not sure what could be causing it exactly, I don't think it's the itch download

thorny loom
#

It only looks this way for me when opening the PDF with Google Chrome for some reason.

dusk arch
#

Huh. Admittedly I don't use Chrome myself so I've never had an issue with it, but I also haven't had anyone else ever report this issue to me and I assume at least one other person out there who has the pdf has used it in Chrome before

granite marsh
cobalt jetty
#

i just tested in chrome right now and it does indeed look like that for me too. pages and pages of this, the second screenshot is supposed to be the stat table for the reaper dart

image.png image.png
granite marsh
#

huh. when it happened mid session we just assumed his computer spontaneously corrupted it, since it was a change from the last time he opened it up

#

possibly a chrome update that broke things then?

dusk arch
#

Huh, well that sucks

#

I'm not really sure what if anything I can do about this, if anyone knows anything about pdf interactions with Chrome I'm all ears

swift mesa
#

I'm guessing it's a chrome interaction, yeah. I've seen that with a couple of PDFs before but never quite worked out what's the cause

bright olive
#

it’s me the friend it was happening to. it’s definitely something chrome specific as i redownloaded it after the session and found firefox to display it normally while chrome displays garbage

sacred storm
#

What all items can y'all think of that self slow?

#

Looking for Charioteer synergies I may have not thought of.

cobalt jetty
#

uhhh. hyperdense armor, the dd288, retractable profile, lb/oc cloaking field...

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both drake guns

#

dd288 on a charioteer sounds stupid-fun as hell, honestly lol

fair sandal
#

A hyper dense charioteer with DD288, sounds terrifying actually

cobalt jetty
#

yeah that sounds like it could be a Problem

south narwhal
#

You've got to overcharge to boost, on top of DD's self-heat.

cobalt jetty
#

stress is a resource sickos

fair sandal
#

Especially with emergency reactor override

jagged ibex
#

At that point you are at least 8 LLs deep, so it's probably not even the worst things someone could cook up xD

sacred storm
#

Ballistic shield exists, albeit

#

The other options... well, a superheavy slowing you isn't bad.

#

It's just that you don't care to boost anyway because of the action econ

#

... dear lord Viceroy can use Govardhana to overwatch and attack four enemies.

... I think anyway, that might need a rules check

#

But if you use Mass pack, you can lock on to four targets as an overwatch

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And THAT is scary

fair sandal
#

Or just play comet

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And lock on to litteraly everything

sacred storm
#

True! But Viceroy gets Vanguard,

... okay everyone gets that but like.

#

Shotgun rockets are cool

fair sandal
#

They are!!!

sacred storm
#

And lock on spreading AOE shotgun rockets

fair sandal
#

Like the Zhuo in cyberpunk

#

Love that thing

sacred storm
#

You're practically your own stormbringer setup

fair sandal
#

You is stormbringer?

sacred storm
#

Viceroy? I mean, you're CQB and Launcher

#

Pushing things prone has never been a bad thing. And for your team mates, the free accuracy is always nice.

fair sandal
#

Wonder what the legality is of using mass pack with Monarchs core power

sacred storm
#

If your mates don't include a lock on support, you can just DIY it, which is cute.

#

Lol.

#

These missiles will hit

#

..... and deal half damage and spread lock on.

fair sandal
#

Well isn’t the monarch core power like range 50 or somthin?

sacred storm
#

Yeah

fair sandal
#

And it hits every hostile?

sacred storm
#

It's similar to Iskander in the sense it's just a map wide deal

#

If your map is over 100 tiles

#

I wanna know who you are*

fair sandal
#

Lorge map

sacred storm
#

Anyway, mass pack Viceroy has me tickled. I gotta figure out just how good this is.

Lock ons are already good, but does this role compression actually matter----

#

In the same license you get sticky launcher too.

Which can be a blast 1 AOE

#

I wanted Caliban 1 for hammer though...

eager cedar
sacred storm
#

I figured since you'd be double auxing that something might be different with "two different weapons."

alpine stream
#

who here has used the dueling system for Field Guide to Suldan?

dusk arch
fair sandal
#

I kinda figured, but wasn’t sure

alpine stream
#

I wonder what using the dueling system from Suldan to simulate out of mech combat could be like

alpine stream
#

like...instead of straight rolls it could use triggers like the Apply Fists to Faces for some of the offensive options while others like Charm, Threaten or Act Unseen could be used for Feints

sterile scarab
#

When I get home for lunch I can post the screenshots if you're interested

alpine stream
sterile scarab
#

No I figured it would skew the math too much in the players' favor, or at the very least require more complexity so that the NPC can impose Difficulty or negative modifiers

#

I just needed something simple enough for Shadow of the Wolf. Though I do think there is ample room to include triggers or pilot gear

sterile scarab
alpine stream
sacred storm
#

I also had to remind myself that stormbringer is once per round.

alpine stream
# sterile scarab So really the only thing I did was draft up pilot-specific consequences. The act...

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1I5jNC0yQcjspLmVPYYQfwzV4cIfufOI8Vxn3eeVZp3U/edit?usp=sharing

Google Docs
Pilot Dueling

Out of Mech Combat. When conducting these rounds, pilots will first Select a Dueling Stance, such as Steady Approach, Guarded and Headlong if they are trying to seize the Initiative, or one of the Defensive or Offensive Stances depending on their situation. Once they have selected their stance, ...

#

I made some rough concepts of a system. I was initially trying to make this for a computer game inspired by lancer but idk, maybe it could work

sacred storm
#

Can Viceroy overwatch with the underbarrel breacher?

#

I feel like it must be yes, but I wasn't sure.

It seems like it's just another weapon but not on a mount.

jagged ibex
#

The thing from Siege Spec 1?

loud fjord
#

IPS-N Underbarrel Breacher from Pointman

jagged ibex
#

So it counts as an alternative profile, like any other weapon, right? So I assume you can Overwatch with it, as long as the original weapon qualifies for overwatch, but that's just my 2 cents

sacred storm
#

Yeah but it could overwatch because of Viceroy's frame spec.

sacred storm
#

But if that's the case... could you overwatch with it on another frame if the equipped main arm has threat X?

#

If so, how do profiles interact?-----

#

Could I overwatch at 3 with something that doesn't have it if a profile does?

dusk arch
#

You can't overwatch with an assault rifle if you have a pistol on the same mount either, threat doesn't work that way

sacred storm
#

Yeah it's by the weapon

dusk arch
#

Threat is on a per-weapon basis

sacred storm
#

I wanted to just check because this is a weapon mod.

dusk arch
#

If the breacher shared its threat with the base weapon, it would say so

sacred storm
#

I wasn't sure how that calculates

#

Yeah.

#

It's basically a different weapon altogether, right?

#

It could be on an assault rifle, and it CAN overwatch but the AR has no business here.

It's not limited by being on the AR either, right?

lapis marsh
#

hey - been playing with suldan for 4 missions now. been pretty fun and in particular scrouger has been a blast for one of my players

#

last mission one of my players ran an anti-tech build with fearkiller and matador systems

#

was very much not enjoyable to run against cuz it led to a very "let the monk catch arrows" type thing

#

where i didnt wanna use tech attacks cuz of stuff like PUNJI

#

but i kinda felt like i had to as a result of my player specifically building for this

#

maybe this is just part and parcel with running trpgs, which ill accept

#

or maybe its a design preference

#

just thought it was something i would bring up

#

on a smaller note: superior logistics has been somewhat of a pain to design around, given its flexability

#

not that big of an issue, since it only saw play in 1 mission

#

but just wanted to note that

#

these have been fairly minor pain points tho, in particular we have really enjoyed all the new talents and speciality licenses are a stroke of genius

#

great stuff

grand zenith
#

how does this sound for a light-touch Valkyrie rework:

1/round, after the Valkyrie hits a target with the Nanocarbon Partizan, it may move upto its Speed (ignoring engagement and reactions) and Skirmish as a Free Action. The second attack must have a different target than the first. This attack does half damage, but the target must pass a Hull save or be knocked prone. The Valkyrie must be flying to use this trait.```
river leaf
#

So I was going through this and the Titan NPC is actually almost note for note exactly what I was wanting to throw against my players, but I was curious if it's kind of like the Mountain's Remorse Tempest or the MBT in that it's a setpiece not intended to take other templates. Mostly because I'm kind of considering adding the Rebake Ultra template to it but not wanting to overtune it.

dusk arch
#

it's a "setpiece" unit in that you can only take one, but that's mainly a logistical consideration, if it wasn't meant to take templates it would explicitly say as much

#

and the same thing goes for the Titan

river leaf
#

Ah, cool. Ultra Ship Titan should be fun to throw at them then.

#

Giant flying enemy artillery piece you have to close the distance with was pretty much exactly what I was going to kitbash together from other NPC pieces, and this is basically everything I wanted in one.

lapis marsh
#

if a player has blade dancer, how feelsbad is it to just....not overwatch them?

lapis marsh
granite marsh
#

I did that once and felt no remorse - they have blade dancer 3 for a reason

dusk arch
#

yeah blade dancer 3 sort of forces the issue, and that's the talent that basically benefits most strongly (I should say) from "being overwatched"

#

the way I look at it, if someone has Step Inside and you go "no I will NOT use this archer's suppressing attack against you" that's a form of benefit in and of itself

#

and this kind of goes for the other stuff mentioned: oh are you just not gonna hack the guy with matador stuff? okay, so they basically bought themselves a bubble of Total Tech Attack Immunity

#

like yeah man I would pay 3 SP for a system that says "witches leave"

#

the matador very specifically frames its stuff as "anti-tech deterrence" and if you the GM decide "I will simply never use a tech attack against this guy" then that too is a form of benefit

#

it's kind of like, I dunno, "what if I never attack the guy with Hardpoint Reinforcement on their turn"

#

or "I don't want to hack the guy who has Scorpion"

lapis marsh
#

thats valid, i suppose i just have a different design philosophy

#

just wanted to give feedback about how it felt in play

dusk arch
#

It is worth noting as well that all of this stuff, matador tech things and blade dancer etc, do come with the caveats that in order to benefit from them you have to at least risk taking it on the chin

#

Blade Dancer requires you to actually proc reaction attacks and they aren't a form of instant interrupt, and matador stuff explicitly only functions off of successful tech stuff/failed systems saves

#

you might not want to have a witch eat a PUNJI spike for the privilege, but it's not a thing you can do without at least taking SOMETHING in return in order to get it going

south narwhal
#

I don't think I've seen someone take Hardpoints for resistance to Overwatch. They usually take it for Manticore hack nonsense.

nova slate
#

remembering that its from the caliban, i feel like at least on its face its for being resistant to reactions as you move into threatening places to slam stuff with knockback or follow them into dangerous places

south narwhal
sterile scarab
#

ah thanks

nova ridge
#

Hi!

#

Okay, uhm, Bolster feedback

#

Gimme a second to compile thoughts

#

Okay! @dusk arch I would first like to apologise because I think we got off on the wrong foot and I do really like Suldan as a whole.

#

But the meat of the concern I had

#

System Optimizer, LL3 for Agrippa.

#

I'm not sure when you last worked on Suldan but I think with the addition of Sysop and Black Thumb talents these might be worth looking at again.

  • As it stands, the ability to buff an ally's save and get one of these bolster abilities combines with Sysop in a really oppressive way. It becomes very, very, very difficult for the GM to handle you when you pop off Emergency Venting at the right time. We had numerous combats where no-one was meaningfully exposed because I would just hit them with that and it'd fix things no problem on top of granting them immunity to additional heat until the end of next turn (sysop) and the heat clear stacked with Black Thumb to make it a bastard to punch through.
  • Enhanced Diagnostic sequence now kinda steps on the toes of Black Thumb Rodeo (BT2), because it's doing a bit of everything from that talent. And, as before, it becomes oppressive with Sysop now. The condition clear on bolster is probably something that should be exclusive with the boost to the save; it might be worth making this system offer alternative options when bolstering rather than adding to it.
#

I hope this is. Remotely helpful to you.

dusk arch
#

So a couple points, I'll be stepping away from my desk shortly and won't be able to dip into greater detail until I return. When I'm in more of a position to do so I have to questions and comments

#

In the meantime, if you have other feedback I'll also be happy to take it here

nova ridge
#

No that's mostly what stood out to me

#

We never playtested the Worden so while I have thoughts I have no concrete feedback to give you.

lapis marsh
#

i will add to this, after a mission of one of my players running an agrippa with the same sorta sysop 3 loadout

nova ridge
#

(I'm also going to bed now so I won't be available for a while.)

lapis marsh
#

i find my issue wasnt with agrippa, but moreso with sysop

#

its just a very busy talent

dusk arch
#

It's phrased that way very specifically on purpose

nova ridge
#

Oh no that wasn't it, it was more "I'm not sure if firing all three mounts for the rest of the scene is oppressive or not"

#

But like I said I haven't playtested it so I have no serious feedback for you there

dusk arch
# nova ridge Oh no that wasn't it, it was more "I'm not sure if firing all three mounts for t...

The Worden has gotten a lot of use, and broadly speaking the consensus I've gleaned is that in shorter westmarch style games with less attrition it can be very powerful, and in games with more typical mission/attrition structures it's basically about as much as you could get with an Asura Everest. Barraging with three mounts is good, but most of Lancer's big DPS optimization comes from firing one weapon multiple times, and Three Mount Barrage doesn't do that

#

The more powerful element is burning your reactor for the additional Barrage, hence why it becomes more powerful in scenarios where attrition isn't as much of a factor

rotund axle
#

Odd question but, for context there was a conversation in lancer-gen about mech and NHP names and I chimed in asking "This seems like a good time to ask, how do I avoid accidentally doing a cultural appropriation when doing homebrew" and got a lot of good answer so, to supplement that, I wanna ask you Kai the same question since I really like the fact that Suldan's NHPs are named after religions that fall outside the pop-culture and want to do the same but, I want to make sure I do it right

#

Was it just a bunch of back and forth conversations with people who were part of those cultures?

dusk arch
#

I also generally try not to have the name be emblematic of the NHP personality in like some 1-1 sense per se

#

Like idk, the goal isn't "this NHP is named after this deity, and will therefore have personality trait X" as a baseline

#

No one's raised any major sensitivity issues with me thus far and I'd be open to hearing any if they had them

rotund axle
rotund axle
#

There's gotta be some relation between the name and mechanics so that it's not just a surface level usage, but too much and you risk straight up misrepresenting them while trying to emulate them

#

There's an important separation between "This is based after this religious character" and "This is that religious character"

dusk arch
#

Right, Lancer does use some associations, Athena gives you intelligence Sisyphus rolls more stuff, etc, but it's not in the same vein as people who keep using, for example, Native American mythology for their cannibal zombie monsters

#

Also with noting: getting a pass or getting a sensitivity consultation isn't like "you succeeded, you did it, it's perfect"

rotund axle
rotund axle
#

Thank you for the help!

dusk arch
#

Okay, back at my desk now so I can dig into things with a bit more fluency

dusk arch
# nova ridge I'm not sure when you last worked on Suldan but I think with the addition of Sys...

In no particular order:

1). "Oppressive" isn't a term I think is, like, bad, but it's something I'm going to want additional detail on to get a better picture, because sans that detail it's hard to say what's happening. I don't need to-the-minute breakdowns (and often don't find them useful) but things like player comps and enemy opfor builds, is this happening in missions or a bunch of separated one-shots, etc. Basically, more detail would be great. If your GM would like to weigh in with their own impressions, I'd be happy to hear them as well, you can direct them here if they feel like it, if not then no big deal.

2). Being able to clear Exposed is a potent save, yeah. That's why it's 1/scene/person and three deep in a license and costs 3 SP. Heat stacking with black thumb is something that seems like a pertinent thing to look at, though I'll admit that's a fairly hungry build to be consistently doing that (most black thumb builds are like six talents deep for Black Thumb 1-3 and Technophile 1-3, then Sysop on top of that is another 3 talents, so that's LL6 minimum to get that going with all of your talents invested solely towards that AND using the "respec one of your talents at LL1 to rush a full talent by LL1 trick.

It's possible to establish support effects that are "too easy" at neutralizing GM stuff, but my personal take is that this matters more in the context of things like harder control effects...slipping out of Jammed or Immobilized easily (or Stunned) is, imo, something that's potentially more "the GM can't challenge this" as opposed to Exposed which is definitely nasty, but basically the only way you get there is to take reactor stress, which means that by the time Emergency Venting becomes relevant someone has already lost 2 repair cap worth of something.

And the gripping side of this is that, to me anyway, if I know someone has a "clear exposed" ability in their kit, my strategy as the GM would be "look to Expose someone AFTER they've gone"

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3). Re: Black Thumb and stepping on toes, Black Thumb existed prior to the Agrippa license so it wasn't established without it in mind. My personal take on the breakdown is:
-Black Thumb clears harsher conditions (Jammed and Immobilized) whereas System Optimizer clears only Impaired, Slowed, and Exposed 1/scene/person
-Black Thumb is better for heat management, as its heat clear can be used repeatedly. This is why a good number of Black Thumb builds make use of heat-gen weapons because you can easily do so without having to pause and clear heat some other way
-Black Thumb is better action econ wise because the effect is "free" coming from your pilot action
-System Optimizer clears Exposed, which Black Thumb can't
-System Optimizer works at range
-One takes talents and one takes SP/licenses, and this is one of those things that's kind of a tossup in terms of which any given person thinks is a better or worse opportunity cost to have to pay

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4). In terms of "if I feel this is a problem, what would I change," trading out alternate effects for the +2 Accuracy on saves/checks wouldn't do it because the vast majority of feedback during Solstice Rain's development on Sysop was that even being made "sticky," the Accuracy on saves/checks portion of the talent is still generally not seen as being particularly, like, super amazing. To put it another way, if I was inclined to change anything about how System Optimizer works, trading out the effect for the +2 Accuracy likely wouldn't make a meaningful difference, and even your own earlier feedback doesn't really seem to suggest that this part of Sysop even came up

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I'll note that this is also the first time anyone's come back to me with "hey this combo of things is broken"

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This isn't to gainsay the feedback, but someone else in the homebrew channel was saying "well I didn't think suldan was getting any more work done" and a big part of that is, frankly, I don't make changes to things if I don't get feedback on things

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I have not really been deluged in "sysop + system optimizer is oppressive" style feedback, and thus I have not felt particularly inclined to make any moves on that front

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if I get more then I may be inclined to do so, but I find that a lot of the time I'm finding out about stuff when people make passing remarks about "suldan has problems" or "oh yeah suldan is wonky/broken/whatever" with no actual detail or followup, and then when I say "there's a channel you can give feedback to" that doesn't happen

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To give some context, this is probably the first halfway substantive piece of playtesting feedback I've received that isn't just "X is broken OP" style commentary in the better part of 15-ish months or so

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So the tl;dr
-This is all something worth noting, I'd love to have some more particular details if those are available to give
-Comboing the heat clear from System Optimizer, Black Thumb, and heat guard from Sysop is the thing I think might actually be worth looking at on an immediate pass. It's a very talent hungry trick, but it might be worthwhile
-I'm aware of the similarities in other respects between System Optimizer and Black Thumb, but I think they're still meaningfully distinct enough along multiple axes
-I'm not yet convinced that Suldan's bolster-enhancement systems need a blanket adjustment to take Sysop in hand, but if they do, replacing the +2 Accuracy to save/checks component likely wouldn't budge the needle even if I did so

dusk arch
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this happens a lot with feedback; one person/group thinks X is creating an issue, another person/group thinks it's fine and the issue is actually Y, etc

lapis marsh
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hmmmmmm thats fair

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i dont have many compelling thoughts about agrippa

dusk arch
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I'll also note, at the risk of misinterpreting you, that "the talent is busy" isn't the same thing as "the talent is oppressive"

lapis marsh
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mainly cuz its the same sorta build my player has been doing the entire campaign

dusk arch
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that's not, again, to gainsay that feedback, but it's an orthogonal element

lapis marsh
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(sysop + field analyst spam)

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to somewhat elaborate, my issue i think was sysop 3 has a lot of overlapping triggers and durations that are applied at the same time

dusk arch
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right and you've mentioned as such before

lapis marsh
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sorry

dusk arch
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I'm not chiding you, just noting that I'm familiar with your stance on it

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I'm just noting here that this is a pretty good example of a thing that regularly occurs during Lancer, and other game, feedback which is one person says "X is a big problem, it's oppressive" and another person says, basically, "I didn't have any problems with it"

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Who should I be heeding, here?

lapis marsh
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i think you could quite easily attribute this to the agrippa, since its sorta spreading the effects of sysop

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so theres more instances on the field at one time

dusk arch
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When you're designing stuff, you're always going to get a variety of opinions and takes on what is and isn't balanced for a variety of reasons, the trick with it is you have to try and dig down into the details, AND you have to then overlay on top of that "what do I as the designer want to do/care about doing," and then ultimately you have to pick one direction and stick with it

lapis marsh
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just sorta speaking to my own feelings on the matter, since i felt the moment the agrippa stopped bolstering my experience vastly improved

dusk arch
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like I'm not really interested in the psychology of "my player had a system and this system made them use this action more," I'm aware that such things are prevalent but I seldom design around things like the psychological factor

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also "vastly improved" in what way?

lapis marsh
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yeah thats a fair point

dusk arch
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because your statement at the outset read to me as "I'm not really having a problem with this" and now it sounds like you were

lapis marsh
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i voiced it more nicely than i shouldve

dusk arch
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okay well, at the risk of opening myself up to telling cuts upon my soul, you don't need to do that

lapis marsh
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my issue was a combination of the agrippa spreading sysop around and sysop having a variety of triggers and durations

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since there were more applications i had to track more instances

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which made it frustrating

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the moment tha agrippa stopped bolstering (when they ulted for instance) it felt a lot better

dusk arch
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All right. I sort of got that, but I think what I'm noting is still relevant:
1). Dragonfruit is talking about power balance as in "this is unbalanced"
2). You're talking about bookkeeping/mental overhead

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Those are both relevant personal experiences, but one person is saying "X is overtuned" and another person is NOT saying that

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that is, your frustration is not coming from the same place

lapis marsh
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ah i see

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im not saying its OP, really

dusk arch
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Right

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That's sort of my point, using your post as a springboard example of The Cutting A Baby In Half Dilemma of Game Design Balancing

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One person says "this is OP" (not to put words in dragonfruit's mouth here, their feedback was more substantive, but still focused on power level), one person says "actually it's not"

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Who do you, as the designer, put more stock in?

lapis marsh
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oh yeah for sure

dusk arch
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Right now, my broad take on the sysop + suldan bolster systems thing is that I have not really received enough feedback from enough sources to plot some sort of commonality I can dig deep into, if I need to dig deep into something

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getting this feedback is great in that it's actual feedback

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if other folks have more feedback to give about these things in conjunction, I'd love to have it so I can see what hidden eye picture emerges

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To give a recent example of things: working on the NPC rebakes has been a good condensed shorthand form of this because when I get a half dozen bits of feedback saying "the Goliath rebake is good but it feels like it has problems getting into engagement range to start doing things," that's a really strong case for "okay I can bump its Sensors up"

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as opposed to, idk, a random one-off comment

sand plank
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In Gladator 3, one of the options is 'treating one roll of 18+ as though it was 20' for your attack.
Does that mean the total roll, after all modifiers? Or do I need to physically roll an 18+ on the d20, then kick it up and apply modifiers after?

dusk arch
sand plank
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Groovin', thanks!

dusk arch
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So that option lets you take an overall total roll of 18-19 and push it to being 20

nova slate
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when it comes to scoring, are conscripts considered 1 or .5 for something like a gauntlet?

dusk arch
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BUDGET wise a pair of conscripts is "one standard NPC"

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but an individual conscript isn't a grunt, isn't an elite or ultra (obviously), and so it defaults to being 1 point for that purpose

nova slate
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Was thinking about a high volume gauntlet with a lot of "counts as 1" style npcs

dusk arch
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like I don't think it would break anything if you counted a conscript as 0.5 bodies or anything, but I personally don't do a lot within NPC statblocks that touches on sitreps directly

nova slate
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Valid, ty

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Something about conscripts and squads speaks to me for a trench themed gauntlet

south narwhal
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Can an Efreet carry an objective when it wraps around the world?

swift mesa
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My understanding is no, as objectives are very hard to interact with outside of 'handling them conventionally'.

dusk arch
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pretty much

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I don't think anyone can "carry" an objective tbh

south narwhal
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Escort and/or extraction?

dusk arch
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you aren't really intended to grapple those and move with them

simple torrent
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objectives for those aren't 'picked up' they just mimick your movement as you move and the movement has to be valid for the object. the object doesn't inherit the efreet's traits so they just stay behind

dusk arch
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fundamentally, the ONLY way you can move those is by the specific rules for moving them

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if you're asking "can an objective moving with an efreet also use unbounded" then no

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because as noted, the objective doesn't have unbounded itself

south narwhal
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Yeah, but it's your standard move, and the rules say that a Mourning Cloak with its core active can use its standard move to teleport to a Sunzi while carrying the payload.

dusk arch
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again, you cannot carry the payload that way

south narwhal
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Okay.

dusk arch
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from a baseline perspective, that's not how moving with payloads works

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the objective doesn't teleport if you teleport, it doesn't fly if you fly, etc

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idk if someone has ruled the whole "teleport using a sunzi by virtue of a teleporting standard move" thing to work before, but I would be deeply skeptical of that being some super secret sitrep hack

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Maybe there's some ancient word of tom about it that I'm unfamiliar with

dire oyster
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It’s been done before but mostly because the dm thought it was funny so yeah officially it’s not supposed to work like that

loud fjord
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The correct way of abusing the wrap-around on extraction/escort is having a teammate in a Sunzi.

crystal vault
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no huge notes or questions i just wanted to say that Kallarani is the most dope mech

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woe be upon ye, i cast frag nuke

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also here have this

grand zenith
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re: the Nightmare's Inductive Talons feature: if i'm reading this correctly, does it passively gain these bonuses just for bringing the talons along? It doesn't specify any kind of on-hit trigger or duration

dusk arch
grand zenith
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does the half HP heal from the Reaver's Containment Breach affect hp regained from stabilize? It's not a numerical value that it regains

dusk arch
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you have 10 HP per structure bar and you're down to 2 so you stabilize to regain 8? You're actually regaining 4

errant torrent
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Does Bruiser 3 (Take Your Best Shot) let you force someone to swing with a Superheavy weapon? Assuming not given that's the general rule, but I want to be certain.

jagged ibex
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The rulebook says that Superheavys can only be fired using the Barrage action, so given that Bruiser doesn't specify the action taken (just "makes an attack"), probably not. The Witch's Predatory Logic works almost exactly the same, and, while implied as above, a certain encounter in Solstice Rain does explicitly state that Sheavys are not valid targets for that

errant torrent
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I'm aware of that, but I'd rather be sure of it given how divisive the answers I've seen about similar things are despite what's put in the book.

ionic badger
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If it doesn't call out a Barrage or superheavy weapon specifically, it probably doesn't work with them

dusk arch
errant torrent
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ok sweet

sacred storm
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Can I draw threat with whitestar's invade to draw range?

And Subsequently overwatch from someone else?

dusk arch
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You can't remotely overwatch that way

sacred storm
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That's fair, but it is a shame 😇

sacred storm
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Tacnet Echo and Hacker 1 are pretty good together. Much enjoyment.

plush nova
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Does anyone have experience of running Suldan as a West Marches game?

maiden cloud
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So... Worden

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I have a terrible idea in my head for a silly Worden that can fire all the guns, inlcuding the MG mount

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I'm wondering if theDrake Arganught Shield can protect someone in the MG mount, as it's worded similar to Mule Harness or Goblin's core

ionic badger
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you could use Argonaut to protect someone in your space yes

nova ridge
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Kallanari

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Jesus Christ

nova slate
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Nothing constructive to add, but have a player in a Kalista having a kaiju battle against a Demolisher and its very entertaining in my ongoing combat

nova ridge
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Hey, @dusk arch, sorry to bother you. Just wanted a clarification on the Downburst? How do you orient the line?

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cc_range 10, cc_aoe_line 5

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Is it just "pick a point within range 10, draw a line 5 in any direction"?

viral wave
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Pretty sure yeah

nova ridge
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That might be worth clarifying in the description

nova ridge
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Helios Nexus line weapon...

ionic badger
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that is how templates with range work in the rules in general

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there just aren't any cones or lines with range in the core

dusk arch
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It's the reason throughbolts have to specify that attacks continue to follow the same direction, as do the breacher's flechette shot and the MBT's canister projector

south narwhal
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It's like the Rainmaker and its Hades Missiles.

molten holly
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@dusk arch
Genuine question since I'm trying to give my own homebrew specialty licenses that have minimum LL requirements: do you happen to know how you set the minimum level needed for specialty licenses?

dusk arch
molten holly
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Oh, I meant JSON-wise!

dusk arch
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oh, uh

molten holly
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I have the "which level would it be at", but right now I've got no way to stop anyone from picking anything

dusk arch
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I don't actually think it fully works

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like it kind of halfway works but also halfway doesn't, comp/con has some implementation limits

molten holly
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There's a value called "min_rank" in the JSON, is that what you used?

dusk arch
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someone else actually coded that portion, so I'm unfortunately not the person to ask

molten holly
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Ah

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Sorry to bother!

dusk arch
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the lcp has credits listed, so I would check those

molten holly
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Thank you!

dusk arch
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yeah sorry I couldn't be of more help

molten holly
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All good

chrome brook
# molten holly All good

According to the github, Where source is a Manufacturer ID and min_rank indicates the minimum rank of one of that Manufacturer's licenses the Pilot must have unlocked to get access to this license.
If the cumulative flag is set, the Pilot must have at least a min_rank of that manufacturer's licenses, similar to how CORE Bonuses are gated.

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Totally unrelated to that, on the Charioteer license there's the Glide Rollers system which reads you treat difficult terrain as dangerous terrain that deals kinetic damage instead. How does that interact with Bulwark Mods, which says allow you to ignore difficult terrain? Does it get ignored entirely, or is it dangerous terrain first and therefore not ignored by bulwark mods anymore? Does it ignore the movement penalty of difficult terrain but still deal damage? Is dangerous terrain also difficult terrain, or is it a separate thing?

merry ice
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Does anybody have a copy of the lcp? itch.io seems to be down, I have a session in half and hour and I forgot to upload the lcp to Foundry. 😅

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Discords search is hot garbage, but I think I found the most recent version [here](#1057779385027002388 message). At least it's the same version number as the one I have in compcon.

quick aurora
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i believe thats it, yeah

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(itch also appears to be up again, at least it is for me)

opaque ginkgo
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Can I ask if Vayavya missile still inflict slowed on a hit when target passes a hull save?

dusk arch
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No, the save is for the whole of the effect

light moss
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Heya! Just popping in to ask if anybody in here has made or knows of a retrograde style sprite for the Aggripa frame (base design is ideal tbh), or if I'm gonna be making one myself

eager cedar
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there isn't one, to my knowledge.

tall oak
light moss
granite marsh
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the retrograde minis server is public, you can join it for free - there's a link in the FAQ button on the site

light moss
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ooh nice

marble quiver
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Question: Can an ally that is slowed benefit from the Sergeant's Coordinated Maneuvers? Is it voluntary, or is it involuntary?

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(and if it's involuntary, does it work on allied Heavy Frame mechs)

dusk arch
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Those characters MAY move, the choice is up to them

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involuntary movement would have to read "those characters are pulled/pushed/etc 3 spaces" or something similar

jade thicket
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I'm wondering if I'm understanding the Apex Downburst Nexus's range right.

Does it affect a line 5 area drawn in any direction away from a point within Range 10?

ionic badger
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Correct

wintry palm
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Hey, I am new to the Field Guide to Suldan but really like a lot of what I am seeing.

I was just curious about the Chimera (Hydra Alt). It appears to be described and designed to be a more up front and aggressive Drone mech than the Hydra (which I absolutely love) but a design choice is confusing me. If it is meant to be a more close range controller, than why does it have the same Evasion and HP as the original Hydra but 1 less Armor?

jade thicket
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The drones are the aggressive ones, even if you aren't

south narwhal
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Yeah, you stay near the back and have a pair of meat shields that automatically repair between battles.

wintry palm
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I see, thank you.

dusk arch
# wintry palm I see, thank you.

The Chimera has shorter sensors than the Hydra which means it can't hang back as far, and a core power that wants it to keep a talon drone in sensors to make use of

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it's also more directly combat oriented, with a pair of weaponized drones and several aggressive-leaning traits

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the shorter sensors and lack of armor are basically trade-offs for this

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Aggressive Heuristics and Pack Guidance are strong action economy abilities on top of everything else, gotta give up something for the privilege

wintry palm
dusk arch
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The Chimera isn't really like a frontliner, and the flavor doesn't really describe it as such

wintry palm
dusk arch
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"direct assault and aggressive area-denial" means that unlike the hydra's more controller-oriented aspects, the Chimera is much more slanted towards dealing damage

wintry palm
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Thank you, I would keep that in mind. I appreciate your help and time

jagged ibex
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Question about Scrounger Talent, when you salvage a weapon from an enemy that can attack multiple times due to its Tier, can the player do so as well?

dusk arch
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Yes

jagged ibex
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thankyou

wintry palm
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Question: if there is an inconsistentcy between the most up to date Comp/Con and PDF, it would be the PDF that takes priority correct?

wintry palm
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I ask because for the Chimera (I know, I am sorry, I have just ALWAYS wanted an aggressive Hydra). The Comp/Con states the Talons copy Evasion, E-Defense, and Speed. The PDF states the Talons use Chimera E-Defense, Evasion, Speed, and Armor.

swift mesa
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I believe it's PDF as primary source, as comp/con gets updated to align with PDFs rather than the other way about.

wintry palm
dusk arch
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pdf always takes priority

wintry palm
compact dome
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doesn't ibeji take 3 energy damage on creation because of the three heat self cost?

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or wait nevermind the heat transfer isn't both ways

dusk arch
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yeah

# 
the echo.```
median jungle
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I searched around on the Discord for awhile, but wasn't able to find an answer to a question that I have--how does Dervish Cadence interact with T2/3 NPCs that can make multiple attacks with a single weapon? For example if you trigger the Overwatch of a T3 Specter, they can attack you 3 times. Are each of these considered individual Overwatch attacks? Or is it only the first?

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Oh and I had another one--since Dervish Cadence explicitly calls out, "when you perform a critical hit," presumably that means it resolves before damage is dealt? Since it uses the same language as Centimane, Crack Shot, etc.

granite marsh
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unsure re the suldan specific rulings - but to the best of my knowledge, centimane, crack shot, etc. all use that language & are just on-crit effects so you can apply them + damage in any order?

dusk arch
# median jungle I searched around on the Discord for awhile, but wasn't able to find an answer t...

1). Whenever a tier-scaling multiattacker uses their weapon to attack, they make that many individual attacks. This applies to things like overwatch as well. They don't HAVE to make that many attacks if they don't want to, but they can, it doesn't really matter what prompts the attack. Same if they use it via Overcharge or something like Supreme Melee etc
2). On hit/crit effects and damage are considered simultaneous things, and can thus be applied in an order of the attacker's choice. For example, if I attack someone with a weapon that deals knockback on hit/crit, I can choose to apply knockback first and then say they take damage after that's resolved (if doing this might set up some sort of chain reaction)

median jungle
# dusk arch 1). Whenever a tier-scaling multiattacker uses their weapon to attack, they make...

Thank you for the quick and thorough reply!

  1. So if I’m interpreting this correctly, then a multiattacker who chooses to attack 3 times with their Overwatch and misses with each would indeed trigger Dervish Cadence 3 times?
  2. That’s interesting that triggered effects and damage are simultaneous and can be ordered. I had the assumption that there was an on hit effect “phase”, followed by a damage “phase”, but that isn’t the case. Thanks again for clarifying that.
dusk arch
grand zenith
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if the mk.12 CSSW is fired in its stabilized mode, does it need to be reloaded before it can be fired again in its unstabilized profile?

jagged ibex
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yes, it's the same with the Siege Cannon, if the unloaded the weapon, you have to reload before you can use any of its profiles

twilit cove
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Would anyone happen to have access to an older version of the Charioteer? Looking at the guide videos and the Reddit threads discussing it, it seems to be a different version than the one currently in the book and I’m curious to see the specific changes that were made to it between the versions

dusk arch
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by that point, a lot of the stuff was pretty much what you see, barring occasional balance passes

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EARLY early (I'm talking like 6-ish years ago) Suldan stuff had a number of differences, mainly because Lancer itself was in flux and a lot of people were still kind of learning the ins and outs of license design, but there wasn't a point where the Charioteer was radically different like "oh it was a hyperlethal striker"

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things like at one point the core active had a heat cost before I decided it didn't really need one, and at one point the Forward Observation Suite didn't exist, but (unless I'm misremembering) that one at least should have been a part of dragonkid's video on it

twilit cove
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I see! Thank you for the insight!

dusk arch
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The Charioteer's gear in what I will call the "pre-kinda-knew-what-I-was-doing" stage was more of a mixed bag of stuff because I hadn't fully crystalized the framing of it as a support frame entirely. It still had things like the bomblet dispensers and the recon carbine and the variable-geometry hull, but the COURSER-Class Comp/Con was a later addition, replacing a melee weapon that gained damage based on spaces moved (removed because I felt it was too parasitically tied to the Charioteer's high speed in a way that made it less useful for any other mech that might take it) and it used to have an advanced ejection system that I felt was too niche and not useful enough even at a low points cost, which ended up getting replaced with the Remote Targeting Relay

twilit cove
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Ah I see! Do you still have the specs on the melee weapon? That still sounds like a super interesting concept

dusk arch
# 
In addition to racing, frame jousting is a pastime occasionally favored by those with more rarefied tastes.  While such jousts are seldom to the death, sometimes more lethal armaments are required to satisfy honor.  The piston lance is such a weapon, a deceptively lightweight and balanced polearm consisting of a sharpened stake of superhardened alloy mounted within a reinforced captive-bolt housing.  Upon impact with a target the contact-triggered stake is explosively propelled forward by a chemical charge, providing exceptional structural penetration against even advanced composite materials.  Scoring a pilot kill with one of these weapons is colloquially referred to by enthusiasts as "tapping the keg."

Main Melee
AP, Loading, Unique
Threat 2
1d6 kinetic damage
For every 4 spaces you move in a straight line before attacking with this weapon you deal +2 damage on a hit, up to a maximum of +6 damage.  If you move 12 or more spaces in a straight line before attacking with this weapon it also gains Reliable 6 for that attack and on a hit the target must pass a Hull save or become Impaired and Slowed until the end of its next turn.```
twilit cove
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Oooh very interesting! What was your vision of Charioteer becoming more focused on being a support frame? Both in terms of mechanics and themes? For me the way it plays reminds me a lot of how roller derby jams play out!

dusk arch
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I felt that as a fairly fragile, lightly armed mech that it more naturally fit a support-type role rather than a more aggressive damage dealer, and when I decided to more strictly categorize it as a support (mech roles were added fairly late in lancer's dev cycle, originally mechs weren't given role classifications) it meant I went back to more strongly solidify that

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Forward Observation Suite was added to give the frame itself some direct support capacity instead of simply being focused on speed and selfish defensibility and a measure of capability regardless of loadout, and then the same went for the licensed gear

twilit cove
dusk arch
# twilit cove I see. When mech roles were added to Lancer, did other mechs generally go throug...

On the third-party/homebrew end? Yeah, probably a lot. The Lancer mechs themselves, the CRB ones, I don't think necessarily changed a lot in terms of fitting to a sort of role-forward scheme. Like the Drake is an example I always bring up because it's classed as a "Defender" but doesn't really have a lot of baseline "I am a Defender" stuff in its frame per se, it's just that it's big and strong, all the defender-ing is a product of its licensed gear

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and like, I don't think tom made the mechs thoughtlessly, it's clear that something like the Swallowtail is very much focused on being a "support" regardless of role classifications, but he wasn't making the original batch with a role-oriented framework in mind the way 4E D&D has the roles baked in from the outset which in turn informed fundamental mechanical design

regal rose
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So, a question.
Why is it was decided to release Suldan as a homebrew instead of an official addon? I mean, you know, considering who is responsible for it and all that...

jade thicket
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Suldan predates Kai's first party work

regal rose
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Can you elaborate?

jade thicket
#

Kai made this before he was working on official Massif Press stuff, and even now he still makes things that aren't categorized as official Massif Press content

swift mesa
#

It's part of keeping a strict line between bomebrew and official product. Not because homebrew is worse or something but because it's good not to get people confused with overlap.

opaque crane
#

Stuff's only first-party if Massif contracts for it. Things contractors do outside of said contracts are exactly like anyone else's third-party work.

dusk arch
#

I do not get to arbitrarily go "my stuff is official now"

#

also yes, I've been working on Suldan since before Lancer was formally released

#

my first official Massif Press assignment was on No Room For a Wallflower, which was a year or so after that date

regal rose
#

Thanks for the anwsers

sacred storm
#

Does the Chassis Served Worden Superheavy's ability to be reloaded by an ally count as reloading for the mech doing it? (Roland Chamber, among other things)

#

I'd assume yes, and I thought I had another interaction to question with it, but its slipped my mind.

dusk arch
sacred storm
#

Basically if I could get bonus damage if im already loaded by loading the Worden

keen helm
#

If you have a preexisting Entanglement Mark from the Efreet's Entanglement Leash system on an enemy, and then you activated SEKHMET, would SEKHMET consider them within range for melee attacks? I feel like the text of the two effects isn't clear on how they'd interact

#

Copy-pasted pertinent rules text

Entanglement Leash:

During your turn you may make melee attacks against targets with your Entanglement Mark in line of sight as though they are within range regardless of their physical location.

SEKHMET:

Your NHP uses all available actions and movement to move toward the closest visible character – allied or hostile – and attacks them with melee attacks, prioritizing melee weapons. It may benefit from your talents. If there are no characters within Threat, your NHP uses all actions to move as directly as possible to the next closest (visible) target.

south narwhal
#

RAW it doesn't work, because that's not part of its flowchart. I'd allow it, though.

dusk arch
keen helm
#

That's what I was missing, thanks Kai

south narwhal
#

If it can't reach another character with the actions it has available, though, it would make use of the free skirmish on the entanglement target.

dusk arch
#

Yes, sekhmet is able to make more extensive use of actions if there's no one it can physically reach, but it does prioritize that physical proximity

lofty spire
#

i decided to allow Suldan for my players in the halfway mark of our current campaign, Gundam Midseason Upgrade Style
and theyre having a blast with the options

wintry palm
lofty spire
#

ooh

swift barn
# 
[ LICENSES ]
  C&H KALLARANI 3, IPS-N POINTMAN 1, IPS-N Vlad 2
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Blowout Panels, Integrated Weapon
[ TALENTS ]
  Combined Arms 2, Duelist 2, Vanguard 2, Engineer 1, Exemplar 1, Hunter 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:2 SYS:0 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:19 ARMOR:1
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:8 REPAIR:6
  TECH ATK:+1 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:5 EVA:10 EDEF:10 SENSE:8 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  Integrated: Typhoon Airburst Projector
  Integrated: Prototype Weapon I
  INTEGRATED WEAPON: Type-17 Boarding Pistol
  FLEX MOUNT: Salamander Incendiary Shotgun (Underbarrel Breacher)
  FLEX MOUNT: Ballistic Shield
  HEAVY MOUNT: Type-96 Shield Gun
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Spider Charges x3, Caltrop Launcher```
#

cooked up this Kallarani build for an aggressive breacher/vanguard

#

going back and forth on Hunter + Int. Weapon vs. just Reinforced Frame and putting that talent into something else, but for the most part, we're happy with this

south narwhal
#

For some reason, I'm thinking about this build.

-- C&H CHARIOTEER @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  HORUS Goblin 1, C&H CHARIOTEER 2, IPS-N OVERLORD 1, IPS-N WORDEN 2
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Reinforced Frame, Enhanced Systems Upgrade
[ TALENTS ]
  Spotter 3, Technophile 3, Black Thumb 2, House Guard 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:2 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:24 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:7 REPAIR:4
  TECH ATK:+3 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:6 EVA:12 EDEF:10 SENSE:15 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  FLEX MOUNT: Autopod
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Enlightenment-Class NHP, MITHRA-Class NHP, FCS Tacnet Relay, H0R_OS System Upgrade I, Armament Redundancy, MASS Pack, Personalizations
#

"Sup dawg, I heard you like Lock On."

#

The biggest disadvantage is its low repcap combined with its trait that makes repairs more expensive.

south narwhal
#

I think, though, I'm going to take Grease Monkey 3 and Iconoclast 2 instead.

#

It'll give me a Quick to use when the enemy is nearby.

swift barn
#

the locker on...

south narwhal
#

And GM3 means one bad structure roll doesn't screw me.

sacred storm
#

Is Mithra's protocol a tech action?

dusk arch
#

Generally tech actions are only ever quick actions and full actions, I'm not sure if there's a protocol tech action anywhere offhand

swift barn
#

there isn't one in comp/con pretty sure

#

we have written the words "protocol tech" but it does feel sorta odd

lofty spire
#

ive been cosistently using the Conscript NPC on OpFors to telegraph that the factions theyre part of are bastards who use their inexperienced mooks as shields
right now im thinking of a boss from said faction who surrounds himself in Conscripts. Would a Sniper work bc they dont need to move a lot?

also speaking of Conscripts, is Panic Fire a quick action or a free action that just happens.

eager cedar
#

panic fire is a full action

lofty spire
#

isee isee
dunno whats up with my LCP it doesnt seem to show it in compcon

maybe in witchdice

eager cedar
#

(slight LCP discrepancy here, though not a relevant one; panic fire in the book is 'within range 5', panic fire in the LCP is 'within sensors')

lofty spire
#

im taking that Military Rifle optional so that they can do that within range 10

#

thank you for the help 🫡

south narwhal
#

How does Underbarrel Breacher work with weapons like Autopod, Autogun, Vorpal Gun, etc. that fire on a specific trigger?

eager cedar
#

my assumption is that it would work, but if it has a specific target or target requirement you have to be in range with the underbarrel breacher to fire it at them, and they still can't be fired(even as the breacher) except via their trigger.

dusk arch
south narwhal
#

So an Underbarrel Breacher on an Autopod can automatically hit a target for 5 AP and save vs Shredded when an ally consumes Lock On against a target within 3 and it's loaded?

#

Do effects like Mass Pack used on the primary weapon affect the Breacher?

dusk arch
#

you do not get to go "well the autopod automatically hits so this hits too"

south narwhal
#

So an Underbarrel Breacher on an Autopod is useless because you can't fire it manually or automatically.

dusk arch
#

If Vorpal Gun has a secondary mode, nothing really changes there

eager cedar
#

it's at best extremely niche. most of the time you're not within 3 of anything if you're autopodding.

eager cedar
light moss
#

Hey I'm building something deeply stupid with the Flight Type Nelson and I wanted y'alls thoughts on how to potentially tweak this build

-- IPS-N NELSON FLIGHT TYPE @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
IPS-N Nelson 3, HA Sherman 2, HA Genghis 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
Overpower Caliber, Superior by Design
[ TALENTS ]
Hunter 2, Nuclear Cavalier 2, Pankrati 2, Ace 1, Exemplar 1, Duelist 1
[ STATS ]
HULL:2 AGI:4 SYS:0 ENGI:2
STRUCTURE:4 HP:17 ARMOR:0
STRESS:4 HEATCAP:10 REPAIR:5
TECH ATK:0 LIMITED:+1
SPD:8 EVA:16 EDEF:7 SENSE:5 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
FLEX MOUNT: Power Knuckles cc_threat1 cc_damage_explosive1d3+1 / Power Knuckles cc_threat1 cc_damage_explosive1d3+1
MAIN/AUX MOUNT: War Pike cc_threat3 cc_damage_kinetic1d6 cc_damage_explosive1d6 (Thermal Charge) / Power Knuckles cc_threat1 cc_damage_explosive1d3+1 // Overpower Caliber
[ SYSTEMS ]
Redundant Systems Upgrade x2, Ramjet, Personalizations

wintry palm
#

You don't seem to use any Ghengas systems. Why not swap Ghengas 1 for Sherman 3 so you can use Asura NHP instead of Redundant System Upgrades?

Also Nuclear Cavalier 2 isn't going to be online as often as you think as you don't want to run hot for long. I would say Hunter 3 for the free Aug attack and Duelist 2 for more ways to help dodge and reflect attacks would help more consistently. Or you can get Skirmisher 2 for more movement options.

light moss
#

Oh that was a bit of a build mishap, I'm gonna drop one of the system upgrades for explosive vents

#

The talent thing is interesting though

cyan ore
#

am I allowed to use the NPCs from Field Guide to Suldan in my own Itch io mission with PWYW?

grand zenith
#

for Guerrilla, should the difficulty from ranks 1 and 2 stack with each other?

#

also, for rank 2 of the talent, i assume the additional difficulty only applies to attacks that the cover itself applies to, correct?

dusk arch
dusk arch
grand zenith
#

oh, that's quite good actually, that's effectively soft cover just for being next to an obstruction.

lofty spire
cyan ore
#

pay what you want

swift mesa
#

It's stuff that's available for free but you'd like people to consider paying considering the amount of work you put into it.

cyan ore
#

yuop

lofty spire
#

ah gotcha gotcha

#

oh this means if i do that too i can also cite Suldan for NPC ideas

cyan ore
#

yup

lofty spire
#

question about Dipping Swallow Module and Reactive Weave:

if you trigger Dipping Swallow Module and Reactive Weave, does that mean that the Improvised Attack of the former work after moving your speed bc of the latter?

if so, does that mean with the two systems together, one can move their speed+1 towards whoever structured em?

dusk arch
lofty spire
#

niceee

idle stirrup
#

Quick question, Kalista's core power isn't supposed to let you repair through Briareos Frame's 0hp 0 structure state, right?

dusk arch
#

at least the interaction is very unclear

#

the HP restoration bit? 100% doesn't work

# 
your HP to full``` that bit doesn't operate while at the special overflow state
#

briareos technically doesn't forbid regaining structure, but I guess the question then is "what happens when a 0 HP 0 Structure mech goes to 0 HP 1 structure" which would be "it would immediately take a structure damage, per the rules for being reduced to 0 HP, then go to 0 structure"

idle stirrup
#

Right, but if you were to repair 2, would that put you to 1 structure and max hp? Which would be gaining hp (slightly indirectly)?

dusk arch
#

yeah that's the real question, does regained structure happen incrementally or in one big lump

#

if it happens in the latter fashion then you could theoretically drag yourself out of the briareos state by brute-forcing yourself past that awkward threshold

#

and I'm not sure there's really anything in the game which states how it works one way or the other

#

there's two schools of thought here, one of which is "briareos frame is already very niche and doesn't really need to be kicked while it's down" and the other is "this feels like it's going against the intent of the core bonus," HOWEVER the gripping hand argument is that if a kalista did take briareos frame and you were a stickler about it, it would be possible to get locked out of your core power

#

I think the strict wording of briareos frame is that you can't really "escape" from the special state, or at least it's very unclear that such a thing could be allowed

idle stirrup
#

I see, thanks, Kai!

cyan ore
#

If I use the Seargent's Ambush Tactics in a module, is the intention to allow the GM to choose the possible options for Grunts, or should I dictate it?

eager cedar
#

if it's in a module my personal recommendation would be dictate but note it can be anything?

thorny schooner
#

Is it normal that in comp-con several of the frames introduced by this lcp show the Everest traits instead of their own?

dusk arch
thorny schooner
#

All the specialty ones

dusk arch
#

You mean the specialty licenses?

#

Do you know what those are?

#

I mean, do you know what specialty licenses are and how they work?

#

Specialty licenses aren't mechs, they're individual licenses you can take as a series of options or as granted rewards

#

They exist they way they do in comp/con as a result of coding limitations

#

So the Everest traits and the silhouette image are what comp/con defaults to if no other information is given

thorny schooner
#

Ah, that explains it, the presence of the "blank" frames and they fact they mimicked the Everest stats/traits is what threw me off.

dusk arch
#

It isn't otherwise possible to add something to comp/con which is just a two-item license divorced from anything else

thorny schooner
#

Thanks you for the explanation.
Maybe it could be worth having an actual "dummy" frame to use with those licenses with all stats at 0 and a trait that explains that the frame is just there for technical comp-con reasons.

latent fossil
#

With the charioteer, does the bomblet dispenser follow the usual ruling on placing AoE tiles in that they must be free spaces? As in, you can't just drop bomblets in the space of another character?

regal rose
#

Gladiator wording is a bit wonky.

1/scene, when you take the Skirmish action on your turn you can perform a special Signature Attack with a melee weapon instead.
So. When you make any skirmish action (dosent even need to be a melee weapon) you can instead make a gladiator attack with any melee weapon (superheavies included).
I get what was intended for it (you turn your melee skirmish into a signature), but think i'll point this out.

opaque crane
#

An action has to specify it allows Superheavies in order for Superheavies to be used in any action other than Barrage.

#

That's just an inherent property of the Superheavy weapon type.

dusk arch
#

Superheavy weapons specifically have to be used with Barrage, and Skirmish isn't Barrage

#

Also the "doesn't even need to be a melee weapon" parenthetical there is kind of unusual in that I'm not really sure what it's implying

#

If you're suggesting "I Skirmish with my assault rifle, but ACTUALLY I do a signature attack with this other weapon" that's also not how it really works

#

Signature Attack becomes a new option available to you that is part of the Skirmish action, so when you Skirmish you may:

  1. Skirmish as normal using the rules for Skirmish found in the Actions section of the core rulebook, or
  2. Make a Signature Attack
#

The reason it's done this way, among other reasons, is because if it was its own special bespoke action you could Skirmish + Signature Attack and double dip with a heavy melee weapon

#

As it's done via Skirmish, you can't Skirmish + Skirmish again unless you decide to overcharge or otherwise gain something as a free action

south narwhal
#

Could you do it with an Overwatch on your turn? If you have Vanguard 3, Skirmisher 2, Gladiator 1, a GMS Shotgun, and Puppet Systems, could you puppet someone into your threat and make a signature attack with a melee weapon in your other mount?

dusk arch
# south narwhal Could you do it with an Overwatch on your turn? If you have Vanguard 3, Skirmish...

You can do it as a reaction on your turn BUT your proposal here doesn't really work because how Overwatch works doesn't let you use one weapon's threat as the springboard for another anymore than I could use a shotgun to proc overwatch and then go "but actually I'll use my assault rifle to shoot them instead," overwatch specifically says you have to use the weapon that triggered it for the attack

#

Trigger OVERWATCH, immediately using that weapon to SKIRMISH

#

again, Signature Attack isn't going "I will Skirmish with my Shotgun BUT THEN I actually substitute a melee attack"

#

"I will take the Skirmish action" is what you do, and then you say what you're doing which is "use a weapon on a mount plus associated auxiliary weapons etc" or "I will Signature Attack, using the rules for such," and in the case of Overwatch, the Overwatch reaction itself has specific qualifiers that modify how Skirmish has to be used (using the weapon whose threat was provoked to do so)

keen helm
#

Does the Efreet's "Interpolate" let you grapple at range? My understanding is that you're allowed to make the grapple attack, but then the grapple would instantly end because you're not actually adjacent to the target