#Field Guide to Suldan

1 messages · Page 8 of 1

dusk arch
#

Hunter/Seeker Network lists reliable values for all three nexus "categories" for bookkeeping and future proofing, it came in handy for superheavy nexus weapons via the superheavy mounting core bonus (there's also a GMS superheavy nexus in suldan) and also if someone does some power at a cost stuff to equip a heavy nexus etc

abstract lintel
#

Is there? I missed that.

#

Oh the Apex

dusk arch
#

Yeah the Apex Nexus is a superheavy nexus in the expanded GMS weapons list

abstract lintel
#

I'm building it out like a Veritch fighter and I want to put that big ass gun on the back of it.

#

Oh. Huh.

#

So....awkward, the Core bonus from Dustgrave that can give your mech a Superheavy mount doesn't work on Comet

dusk arch
#

Yeah, at one point it did, then it got changed

#

so there was a brief period where it worked, and if you want to use the older versions it's open

#

otherwise there's power at a cost type stuff for "I want a superheavy/heavy weapon on this non-heavy platform"

#

there's ALSO a weird workaround which is kangto endochassis

abstract lintel
dusk arch
#

where you can have superheavy mounting and kangto endochassis as core bonuses, the former won't apply to the comet, but then it will once you eject into the kangto

#

because the kangto only has one mount

abstract lintel
#

Lol that's so wonkyq

#

I'm curious, what is the overall balancing for "this frame can have heavy weapons"?

#

Like, what's the breakpoint on the comet that says it can have FLEX, Main/Aux, Main/Aux, but not Flex, Main/Aux, Heavy?

dusk arch
#

Generally speaking, as a BROAD concept, mechs either have heavy mounts or damage traits, but not both

abstract lintel
#

I do game design for 5e but never really for Lancer. So I'm curious

dusk arch
#

The Comet specifically doesn't have one because instead I gave it 2x Main/Aux mounts which are not really equivalent to heavy mounts but are very close and no other mech in the game has two of them, and I also gave it not a damage trait but an "adds reliable trait"

#

There are also not very many heavy/superheavy nexus weapons in the game and giving it a heavy mount would have, I feel, put it in an awkward position in terms of available weapons which fit into gameplans involving its nexus-related traits and systems, and heavily pushed me to make a heavy and/or superheavy nexus within its license

#

Also it has inherent heatless flight which is kind of a big value add on top of everything else, as only one other mech in the game has inherent flight

abstract lintel
#

Yeah, that all makes sense.

#

The flight is a big one.

dusk arch
#

If I wanted to give it a heavy mount there are probably ways I could have done that but more of the frame and license would have had to be built around it, and it didn't strike me as integral to the sorts of things I wanted the comet to be focusing on (as a slantwise support frame, having heavy mounts drastically incentivizes heavy weapon attacks over things like hacking or using support systems)

abstract lintel
#

Yeah, that all makes sense.

#

I will say the short range of the Colony Nexus does feel a little strange for a frame that feels like it's supposed to stay far away from combat.

#

But otherwise I really dig it

dusk arch
#

Part of it is that I want to give different sort of options for builds beyond three variations of the same thing, so the comet has close, long, and mid-range nexus options, and part of it is that licensed gear can go on other mechs as well, so having some varity there can encourage experimentation

nova slate
#

its a fun vibe for the move-shoot-move vibe

#

step in to shoot, then gtfo if you can

nova slate
#

The chimera's talons are both mains right? so you could shoot both with a barrage or only 1 at a time normally?

rotund axle
#

Considering it says "These weapons", I'm pretty sure you have two copies of it that you can Barrage with

nova slate
#

ok cool, just wanted to make sure i was getting that right

#

really potentially opens up the use of a sh when you know you have 2 back up mains for skirmish or barrage purposes

dusk arch
#

Confirming that yes, you can skirmish and/or barrage with Talon drones

#

You basically have 2x Main Integrated Weapons equipped to the Chimera

modest cobalt
#

Is the superior logistics core bonus usable during the rests between combat?
Main example being, could i use the "Repair one destroyed weapon or system belonging to you or an allied character within Range 3." ability to repair 1 weapon/system during the rest between combats

dusk arch
#

It is not, as it's strictly a combat thing

earnest iris
#

@dusk arch does C&H have a logo. i need to make a bootleg tshirt for their racing team

dusk arch
earnest iris
#

gotcha!

final forum
dusk arch
final forum
#

Gotttt it

#

Ty ty

rotund axle
#

Do Glide Rollers make you treat difficult terrain as also dangerous terrain or only as dangerous terrain?

#

IE do you still move at half speed through them while GR is active

dusk arch
#

#homebrew-design message for my own reference if nothing else, it is a replacement crossing out difficult terrain and writing "dangerous terrain" in its place

#

I just checked and the wording used is "and you treat difficult terrain as dangerous terrain that deals kinetic damage instead." with the "instead" being the operative part of the clause

rotund axle
#

Gotcha, thanks

rotund axle
#

On multitype weapons, do Weapon Mods need to be applicable to both weapon types of the weapon or just at least one?

#

Basically can I apply Bounder-Class to Seeker Catapult

quaint beacon
#

from my knowledge of how things interact with the tagetes/viceroy, yes

rotund axle
#

Hell yeah

#

...Also wait what interaction with Tagetes?

#

Putting a weapon mod on it then changing the weapon type to Rifle or vice versa

dusk arch
rotund axle
#

Alrighty, thanks

final forum
cinder sandal
#

you may have the link pull you 2 spaces towards that character by the most direct route possible as part of that action. does this still work when slowed?

image.png
ionic badger
#

It's a pull, so yes

cinder sandal
#

thumbs

#

immobilized?

ionic badger
#

Same thing

#

Pull is involuntary movement, so its not affected by either of those

dusk arch
#

Correct, that's the entire purpose of that movement, is it bypasses the usual penalties incurred by shield/defensive systems that cause slow or immobilize when activated

gentle forge
#

has anyone here tried Comet stuff on Raleigh?
Raleigh could still attack while jammed from Sabr Engines, Colony Nexus could be put alongside more traditional loading gunslinger stuff, Archer nexus is loading itself, Harrier Nexus doesn't disable FMJ, and the various Lock On synergies could work well with doing Spotter stuff on FMJ turns

outer ibex
#

Genius

#

Roland nexus

cinder sandal
hardy tulip
#

I'm planning on switching to a Kallarani at some point in our campaign I really want to run it as a high damage striker is gunslinger the best way to do that? If anyone can recommend me a good build lmk.

quaint beacon
#

how to build a high damage striker kallarani:

pick two weapon types, put one in your heavy
barrage

it's that simple

#

combined arms HMG + charged blade is probably the easiest and simplest

unkempt breach
#

Can the Worden barrage 3x in a turn via its Core Power and overcharge?

languid cosmos
#

no. worden core doesn't change the action cost to barrage, it just gives you an extra quick if you do barrage

dusk arch
#

Yeah the Worden core power is very specifically and very deliberately worded for this reason

# 
during your turn as well.```
#

So barraging is still considered a full action, overcharge only gives you quick actions

#

Then the additional clause is its own 1/round free action

#

You also can't skirmish during this time either

#

(well, during your own turn anyway)

#

ASURA won't get around it either because it has to abide by duplicate action restrictions, which all in all means you can barrage at most 2 times in a turn by both doing so normally and then by taking a point of reactor stress

hardy tulip
# quaint beacon how to build a high damage striker kallarani: pick two weapon types, put one in...

-- C&H KALLARANI @ LL4 --
[ LICENSES ]
C&H KALLARANI 3, IPS-N Tortuga 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
Overpower Caliber
[ TALENTS ]
Vanguard 3, Combined Arms 3, Executioner 1
[ STATS ]
HULL:4 AGI:2 SYS:0 ENGI:0
STRUCTURE:4 HP:20 ARMOR:1
STRESS:4 HEATCAP:6 REPAIR:6
TECH ATK:+1 LIMITED:+0
SPD:5 EVA:10 EDEF:10 SENSE:8 SAVE:12
[ WEAPONS ]
Integrated: Typhoon Airburst Projector
FLEX MOUNT: Salamander Incendiary Shotgun
FLEX MOUNT: Deck-Sweeper Automatic Shotgun
HEAVY MOUNT: Earthbreaker Demolition Weapon // Overpower Caliber
[ SYSTEMS ]
Saboteur Drone, Spider Charges x2, Personalizations, Armament Redundancy

#

Is this good? I feel like I'm butchering this thing I'm on my first ever campaign rn and this is only the third build I've ever tried to make

rotund axle
#

...Earthbreaker?

hardy tulip
#

I saw big hammer do big numbers

#

That was my entire thought process there

rotund axle
#

Where is that from

hardy tulip
#

Uhh KIE Core EarlyAccess apparently

rotund axle
#

Ah it's a homebrew exotic

hardy tulip
#

I guess I just have the lcps my DM told me to get

rotund axle
#

If you don't plan on Barraging with both shotguns and instead having them as different Overwatch options that works well

hardy tulip
#

Awesome! Yeah that was my idea is to leave one for overwatch

quaint beacon
#

Without knowing what the Earthbreaker does, yeah, looks solid

#

Probably put the next two points into engi

hardy tulip
#

The earthbreaker does 3d6+2 innacurate 1 knockback 2. I actually just brought it up to my DM because it seems kinda busted

#

On a heavy not a superheavy

quaint beacon
#

Generally speaking to your question re: gunslinger, while Kallarani has a good mount setup for it and gets extra benefits from the integrated, I generally find that doing Gunslinger stuff on anything with a heavy mount always kind of feels bad

Raleigh gets away with it due to Uncle

#

Yeah that seems uh very good

hardy tulip
#

No requirement to get it either so I'm probably going to pick some other heavy melee I don't like breaking the game.

#

Thanks for the advice everybody!

quaint beacon
#

Nano carbon from BB is the usual recommendation for reliable but with Kallarani and CA accuracy you can probably go for something chonkier

#

Raleigh 3 for kin hammer and UNCLE one of your shotties maybe

quaint beacon
#

You pay in GM kindness and campaign progress instead of licenses

rotund axle
#

If so, it seems like a Kinetic Hammer with Inaccurate put on for +1d6 damage, and reliable replaced with Knockback

hardy tulip
dusk arch
#

It's the most straightforward of the set, in that it's just a general purpose all-rounder with benefits to barraging and a set of generic but decent traits and a core power that gives you a 1/mission AoE damage ability

#

At the end of the day, it's designed to accommodate pretty much anything you want in the way that "a mech with a heavy mount" in lancer tends to have some fairly straightforward gameplay plans

#

I will say that without any engineering investment or talents (grease monkey, demolitionist, etc) that the Spider Charges might feel a bit anemic since you have 2 of them and then you're out

#

I might consider swapping those out for something like GMS jump-jets for some additional movement flexibility

hardy tulip
#

Thats a good idea since I don't have a ton of range! The flexibility is why I wanted to do the Kallarani (that and cool pirate mech)

quaint beacon
#

Yeah I think you have to actively try to make a Kallarani bad, it's just a Generically Strong Heavy Mount Striker

Even if you ignore its mixed weapon type bonus (which you really shouldn't, it's free nearly unconditional accuracy) you're left with a heavy mount mech that gets free damage on every barrage from the integrated

#

Kalista kind of in the same boat tbh. Just a large, thicc lad

#

Matador and Charioteer are probably the easiest to """mess up""" and that's only because Matador is so fucking weird and Charioteer has glass bones and paper skin

dusk arch
#

You'd have to 100% completely spec into launchers to render it irrelevant

quaint beacon
#

Yeah lmao

languid cosmos
#

stormbringer kallarani is the new meta

quaint beacon
#

It does have genuine use cases over Monarch! The integrated is pretty nice for barrages

But it's definitely not using the frame to its full potential

languid cosmos
# 
[ LICENSES ]
  C&H KALLARANI 2, SSC Monarch 3, HA Saladin 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Neurolink Targeting, Kangto Endochassis
[ TALENTS ]
  Stormbringer 3, Orator 3, FIELD ANALYST 3
[ STATS ]
  HULL:2 AGI:2 SYS:2 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:15 ARMOR:1
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:8 REPAIR:5
  TECH ATK:+3 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:5 EVA:10 EDEF:12 SENSE:8 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  Integrated: Typhoon Airburst Projector
  FLEX MOUNT: SUPERHEAVY WEAPON BRACING
  FLEX MOUNT: Shatterhead Colony Missiles
  HEAVY MOUNT: Pinaka Missiles (Stabilizer Mod)
[ SYSTEMS ]
  TLALOC-Class NHP, Spider Charges x3, Custom Paint Job```
```-- GMS KANGTO @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  C&H KALLARANI 2, SSC Monarch 3, HA Saladin 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Neurolink Targeting, Kangto Endochassis
[ TALENTS ]
  Stormbringer 3, Orator 3, FIELD ANALYST 3
[ STATS ]
  HULL:2 AGI:2 SYS:2 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:13 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:7 REPAIR:3
  TECH ATK:+2 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:5 EVA:10 EDEF:10 SENSE:8 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  FLEX MOUNT: Shatterhead Colony Missiles
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Javelin Rockets, TLALOC-Class NHP, Spider Charges x3```
#

behold, a suboptimal kallarani.

#

naturally the kangto has integrated eva rig

rotund axle
#

Truly its strongest trait

languid cosmos
#

yeah, i don't wanna be slowed in null-g!

quaint beacon
#

I forgot the kallarani had +1 TA natively? what a lad

rotund axle
#

Robust stat stick really

#

Nothing too low, except for SP but it has a Heavy Mount you can't ask for everything

quaint beacon
#

(wrong channel oops)

rotund axle
#

Say....if you had Kinesthetic Suit Upgrade and Shield Array Drone.....would that work?

#

Like move the drone with DC1 to move yourself with KSU

#

It seems possible RAW but, that feels too free

pulsar elk
#

Is using a Rank I Mech License as pre-req for it's Rank II mutually exclusive for being a pre-req for a specialty license? Like if someone went Rank I then Rank II Sabreur or Chariot would they need to get a different Rank I license to then get Talwar?

dusk arch
# 
an unconventional license to help emphasize that role, and the HORUS Thirdeye package
is exactly the sort of thing she's looking for. That particular license is rank II which means
that in order to take it she needs to have at least one HORUS license that's at least rank I
to serve as a prerequisite. Fortunately she has a rank I Pegasus license and so she can
take the Thirdeye if she likes, but she could also take it if she had a rank I Balor or Hydra
license as well. Taking the Thirdeye doesn't count as upgrading her Pegasus license itself
though.```
#

You can go Pegasus 1, Pegasus 2, Thirdeye, or Pegasus 1, Thirdeye, Pegasus 2, etc

pulsar elk
#

Ah, thanks for the clarification!

dusk arch
#

The one thing you can't do with specialty licenses is use them to cheat out higher levels of a mech license package, you can't do Pegasus 1, Thirdeye, and then skip straight to Balor 3

#

that is, without taking Balor 1 and 2

rotund axle
dusk arch
# rotund axle Kai?

Kinesthetic Suit Upgrade's trigger, as far as I know, is "a character ends a movement adjacent to you." Drones are characters but they don't really make "movements." I have no idea if it's been clarified or not that this trigger also applies to involuntary movement or not (that wouldn't be my immediate read but I didn't design the system so idk, you would need to ask Shaka).

If it doesn't apply to involuntary movement I don't see how it would combo in any way. All forms of "moving drones" that aren't guys like OROCHI drones et al who get their own independent movement is involuntary movement...drone commander, puppetmaster, and even the shield array drone's reaction is you moving the drone, not the drone doing the moving. But also, more to the point, Drone Parry and the KSU thing are both reactions, so unless you're a Gorgon then it's a non-starter to begin with

If it does apply to involuntary movement then I guess it could proc but only off something like a non-reaction moving of the drone (e.g. Drone Commander 1) and not the reaction part unless, again, you happen to be doing this as a gorgon

rotund axle
#

Wait moving drones is involuntary movement? Fuck I missed that

#

I asked some clarifications from Shaka about KSU before and they said that Involuntary Movement doesn't trigger it so, I guess that answers that

#

Thanks anyhow

#

...Yeah no this makes a whole ton more sense now that I think about it

south narwhal
#

Yeah, involuntary movement doesn't trigger reactions unless it explicitly says so.

rotund axle
#

Yeah I know I just never found out that moving your drones also counts as involuntary movement

south narwhal
#

The only drones that can make voluntary movement are the Hydra's Orochi drones.

rotund axle
#

And Packmule

pulsar elk
#

So how would Tiger Hunter Combat Sheath interact with Auto-Adjusting Weight Mod and Gladiator 1? Would the mod's 1/round ability only affect the threat of one it's attack rolls? Do you still get the second swing if you use Signature Move? If so I assume the second attack roll doesn't get Signature Move's benefits right?

rotund axle
#

Wait on that note....what happens if you throw THCS

gentle forge
dusk arch
# pulsar elk So how would Tiger Hunter Combat Sheath interact with Auto-Adjusting Weight Mod ...

1). To the first question (would Auto-Adjusting Weight only affect one attack roll), yes.
2). Also yes.
3). It depends on what part of the move. There are things in Gladiator that are explicitly "an attack," while others are "one target" and could be made to apply to either. There's a bonus damage add, which would be split against multiple targets. There are some which affect all targets. Etc. The exact component of each Gladiator move should give some indication as to how they interact.

dusk arch
# rotund axle Wait on that note....what happens if you throw THCS

4). Attacks happen sequentially even with multiple targets in play. If you throw your Tiger Hunter Combat Sheath with one attack, you don't have access to it for the next, and therefore can't make an additional attack (because you don't have the weapon equipped at that point).

rotund axle
#

Ah, one after the other, gotcha

#

That makes sense

rotund axle
#

Do characters need to be entirely within the Active Defense System to gain its benefits?

dusk arch
rotund axle
#

Gotcha, thanks

pulsar elk
#

Would shield array drone also apply the +2 difficulty to shoot someone on the other side to you if you're size 1 and are the only ways to change where it sits adjacent to you 1) the reaction, 2) Drone Commander) and 3 recalling then re-deploying it?

dusk arch
#

and you count it as hard cover.

viral wave
#

@tame venture here might also be good for more Suldan-specific advice

tame venture
#

OH!

#

I DIDNT KNOW THIS WAS HERE

#

I had some questions about encounter design.

Right now I've got 3 players vs Vet Champ Sergeant, Vet Reaver, Vet Termite, and 6 Conscripts for a Recon sitrep.

I'd... show a picture of my badly-drawn-on-paper map, but it's indecipherable even to me now.

That said, I just wanted to ask if this was too much structure for 3 players, and if I should just remove the Veteran templates off of all NPCs?

dusk arch
# tame venture OH!

so the standard advice that the GM corner will give you is that a single budget sitrep should have an amount of NPC structure and activations equal to 1.5-2x the number of PCs. For a single budget sitrep, which is what recon is, that's somewhere in the ballpark between 4.5-6

#

What you have in this prospective opfor against 3 PCs is in the neighborhood of 10 structure and 6 activations (I'm assuming by "6 conscripts" you mean "3 Conscript NPCs giving you three pairs, for 6 bodies total")

#

So my personal take on this at a glance is yes, this is too much structure, particularly given that the Reaver is already a very tanky and durable unit, and also I think this is probably too many Conscripts because Conscripts aren't really grunts and shouldn't be treated as such

#

between the Reaver and an abundance of Conscripts, you have a lot of damage mitigation and sustain (through having Conscripts soak fire for people) in an already very structure heavy opfor

#

Also, this comp doesn't really have much in the way of a big damage threat to keep the PCs motivated, the Reaver can be dangerous but like the Demolisher it's on the slower and shorter ranged end, it serves in a similar "point control" role, and while there are a lot of conscripts I feel like conscript spam can be swings and roundabouts

#

Offhand, my suggestions (which don't need to be abided, I'm not the uncontested encounter building expert), would be to knock the number of Conscripts down, knock Vet off the Sergeant, flip a coin on the Reaver getting to keep Veteran or not, and then maybe subbing the Termite for an Assault or something nice and straightforward
-Champion Sergeant
-Veteran Reaver
-Assault
-2x Conscript (this is two pairs of Conscripts)

That gets you 7 Structure and 4 Activations, so maybe a little lower on the activation end, in which case I could recommend substituting out Champion for Elite on the Sergeant

#

The Sergeant and Assault would both be Range 10 units while the Conscripts by default sit at Range 5 and then the Reaver is your sole close range unit

#

The potential exists for the Reaver to simply be kited or left to its own devices and ignored, and the Sergeant isn't as much as a movement facilitator as the Mirage is. Veteran gives you Acrobat as a potential enhancement there, though that might also be too much movement depending on what the map looks like; playtest reports have indicated that the Reaver isn't as big of a damage threat as getting walloped by a demolition hammer, but that it's very difficult to kill (sort of by design), having it also be super mobile may cause issues, so you'll want to try and strike a balance

tame venture
#

OH WAIT SORRY

#

I think I get it

#

...so does an Elite count as 2 and an Ultra count as 4?

dusk arch
#

It's how many turns a unit gets

#

Elites get 2 activations (two turns) per round, ultras get 2 or they get 3 at 5+ PCs

#

For the purpose of encounter budgeting, treat each pair of conscripts as 1 structure and 1 activation

#

They are essentially "one mech" for that sort of accounting, even though they have two bodies and each body gets its own turn, because individual conscripts are sort of shitty by design (just not grunt shitty)

tame venture
#

That's fair

#

Alright, I was building them as either NPC Structure = 1.5x or 2x PC Count OR NPC Count = 1.5x or 2x PC Count.

With NPC Structure = 1.5x or 2x PC Count AND NPC Turns = 1.5x or 2x PC Count, while paying attention to damage output (I forgot I have no strikers), I think I might be able to readjust.

Although it might be weird to ask, but instead of an Assault, is there any chance an Ogre, Phantom, or Valkyrie would be better suited for this?

I'm trying to make them all Suldan NPCs if I can help it for a narrative reason, but if it's not feasible, I'll use the Assault as advised.

dusk arch
#

In that case, I might consider swapping Veteran or something from the Reaver to that striker to give them some more staying power

#

also it DOES sorta depend on your PCs, if they know what they're doing they may have an easier time, a harder time, etc

tame venture
#

Right... a Champion Ogre could be fun...

dusk arch
#

Champion Ogre is a real good pairing

tame venture
#

These are three new players, LL0. I have a second combat after this, a control sitrep which was supposed to feature an Elite Vet Champ Ogre as a boss, with some conscripts and carriers for backup.

#

I didn't particularly wanna throw an Ultra until LL1. Which was going to introduce hopefully a recurring NPC, who would usually flee when knocked down to half structure.

#

Probably won't hurt to have the ogre again, let's the players get used to the Ogre tactics, but have to learn the Elite and Veteran parts.

tame venture
#

Okay, I think I can do this now! Thanks so much @dusk arch

dusk arch
#

yeah no problem

mossy wadi
#

So, is the Champion template meant to be a “generic” template like Veteran, Elite, and Ultra, or something more specific?

dusk arch
#

at the risk of coming across like a smartass, I figured the name and description would be somewhat self-explanatory

#

To put it another way, no template in lancer isn't to some extent "generic"

#

I would say that a lot of templates tend to be themed but that they're still pretty open to interpretation as to what a Mercenary or a Pirate or a Spec Ops is in any given situation, and in mechanical terms lancer doesn't differentiate between templates like Veteran or Mercenary or Exotic etc except for certain sitrep scoring calculations

#

The Champion template, in mechanical and thematically cross-linked terms, is based around singling out a particular PC and obtaining certain benefits based on that

#

If by "generic" you mean "can I make a fight with 3 Champions in it the same way I would make a fight with 3 Veterans or Elites" then per the Peerless trait, only a single Champion can be present in a scene

mossy wadi
#

Ah, alright, apologies for the dumb question. I kind of have a bad habit of sorting templates into "generic" ones that're widely useful or tend to pop up alot (Veteran, Spec Ops, Elite, Ultra) vs more niche options like Spacer or Pirate, lead to me overthinking with Champion.

dusk arch
#

No apologies needed

#

I think if you wanted to categorize them that way that Champion would be filed alongside Spacer, Pirate, Mercenary, etc, though when to use it and in what application is going to be entirely up to how you want to construct the opfor in terms of tactical and mechanical output

#

is an "elite honor guard" mech best built using the Elite template or the Champion template or the Veteran template etc

gentle forge
#

Champion and Spec Ops feel like a middle ground between the two

#

they're sorta themed/coded for a specific aesthetic like Spacer/Merc/etc, but also have a singificant effect on an NHPs power ("leveling it up") similar to Veteran and Elite

dusk arch
#

Yeah I would say that Champion does represent a bit of a linear power spike in that you get to take an extra base weapon or system from another NPC class so you can easily end up with someone that's capable of barraging where previously that wasn't a thing

#

it's similar in that respect to some of the stuff an Ultra can do with weapons like the Ravager Turret or Hellfire Projectors

#

the flipside is champions don't natively get additional activations and they're a strict 1/scene inclusion

gentle forge
#

...huh
I misremembered, I thought they had an extra structure/stress.

dusk arch
#

they do

gentle forge
#

Oh, then yeah

dusk arch
#

They're like veterans, they get +1 Structure/Stress but no additional turns

gentle forge
#

ssso yea
they're like veterans

dusk arch
#

Unlike Veterans, the inclusion of another weapon or system from a different class can potentially make them punch harder

#

i.e. you could make a Champion Assault and give them, idk, a Rainmaker's Missile Pods

gentle forge
#

veterans have deadly and/or limitless, so I think it's within the same ballpark

dusk arch
#

yeah but limitless is, at least, a thing you have to select

#

whereas this is the champion's baseline

gentle forge
#

you do have to select the system
it could be Assault with Missile Pods
it could be Assault with Bulkwark Mods

bright olive
#

they fear the limitless step demolisher

fringe sierra
#

How do Specialty Licenses work? Like how do I gain access to them? Do I waste License Levels to get them? etc

raw zealot
pine lotus
#

couple of questions regarding Parvati and shining city:

  1. if i put it on kangto, use it in main mech, then switch to kangto in same scene, can it be used again?
    assuming not

  2. what happens if parvati is destroyed or no longer accessible through not putting on a kangto that gets switched to?
    does the shining city stay in place if already used?
    if not, then would it stay in place if i put it on kangto even if it couldnt be used again?

south narwhal
#

I think when the mech is destroyed, the Shining City goes away as well, no matter whether you have a Kangto or whether it has Parvati. But that does mean you can use it again, since it's a separate mech.

#

The charges you used are also replenished.

dusk arch
# pine lotus couple of questions regarding Parvati and shining city: 1. if i put it on kangt...

1). Everything about the Kangto is that it is basically "a separate mech" and that includes its own separate set of systems, even if you might be using similar loadouts. From that angle yes, you can use a "new" Parvati since that one hasn't been used before. However, for 1/scene (or 1/round) mech traits the answer is no duplicates, because you are literally taking the trait and just putting it onto the Kangto (so no 2/scene Initiative off the Everest for example)

2). Shining City doesn't end when your mech is destroyed, much like any other permanent thing like caltrop fields or burning plasma thrower patches

#

Shining City just makes stuff on the map and that's that

pine lotus
#

thank you. was unsure cause of the mech trait thing

granite radish
#

what'd be some nifty licenses that synergize with Kallarani?

gray thistle
#

With the frame or license as a whole?

#

Because the answer varies, there's a lot of cool toys in there that would suit a large variety of frames.

For the frame itself I like Genghis 1 for the krakatoa, but the frame's honestly very flexible. I think there's a handful I wouldn't go for. Superheavy weapons are out though.

dusk arch
granite radish
#

I got distracted and ended up with this instead

#

-- IPS-N Raleigh @ LL5 --
[ LICENSES ]
SSC COMET 1, IPS-N Raleigh 3
[ CORE BONUSES ]
Integrated Weapon
[ TALENTS ]
Grease Monkey 3, Gunslinger 3, Centimane 2
[ STATS ]
HULL:3 AGI:0 SYS:0 ENGI:4
STRUCTURE:4 HP:21 ARMOR:1
STRESS:4 HEATCAP:9 REPAIR:6
TECH ATK:-1 LIMITED:+2
SPD:4 EVA:8 EDEF:7 SENSE:10 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
Integrated: M35 Mjolnir cc_range5 cc_threat3 cc_damage_kinetic4
INTEGRATED WEAPON: Colony Nexus cc_range3 cc_threat3 cc_damage_kinetic1d3
AUX/AUX MOUNT: Colony Nexus cc_range3 cc_threat3 cc_damage_kinetic1d3 / Colony Nexus cc_range3 cc_threat3 cc_damage_kinetic1d3
FLEX MOUNT: Colony Nexus cc_range3 cc_threat3 cc_damage_kinetic1d3 / Colony Nexus cc_range3 cc_threat3 cc_damage_kinetic1d3
HEAVY MOUNT: Heavy Machine Gun cc_range8 cc_damage_kinetic2d6+4 (UNCLE-Class Comp/Con)
[ SYSTEMS ]
Armament Redundancy, Custom Paint Job, Personalizations, SABR Engines x3

#

are there any nifty suldan licenses to compliment raleigh w/ comet's gear strapped on?

south narwhal
#

Is Colony Nexus loading?

quaint beacon
#

no, archer nexus is

#

I am assuming raleigh is here for the mount setup, rather than loading synergy

#

everest can't mount two double aux mounts

#

and the jam immunity is probably better than a 1/scene truesilver

#

especially with sabr engines

south narwhal
#

You've only got 4 LLs. I'd grab either Nelson 1 or Death's Head 1 and replace Paint Job with one of their movement options.

dusk arch
#

Really the sabr engine/shielded magazines combo is the only thing here I really see as the raleigh bringing to the table as a frame, and I guess uncle on the HMG

#

This is just me spitballing: I think if I wanted to make a hardcore nexslinger that wasn't using the comet frame itself, I'd actually consider the Kallarani for that

#

A couple flex mounts gives you a decent amount of juice, your big loss is multi-role armament if you're going to really zero in on one weapon type, to which I'll say that you could maybe grab the Seeker Catapult off the THIRDEYE specialty license which is both a Nexus and a Rifle, and which likes having a +1 Accuracy to its shots

#

Kallarani 2, Comet 1, [something HORUS] 1, THIRDEYE could get you there at LL5

#

and if SABR Engines with no Shielded Magazines seems rough and you didn't want to go that route, the GMS Wasp Nexus is a pretty solid aux nexus choice, lighter on the damage but easier to proc centimane with

#

anyway I think the aforementioned Raleigh platform should work well enough, but as Zemyla notes you only have 4 license levels unless there's something I'm missing

gray thistle
#

Raleigh also gives a range 3 overwatch attack with the mjolnir, and the weapon mounts to make this work. It looks pretty neat imo.

There are definitely a bunch of other cool builds you could go for instead, that kallarani one looks dope for example.

static ravine
#

Been having some trouble looking for discussion about the Macuahuitl chainsword, are there any other big synergies outside of Brutal 1 and Artemis NHP?

gray thistle
#

getting more accuracy for increased crit rate, but that's also heavy on the heat

static ravine
#

Yeah that's gotta be a bit of an oof with the Overkill tag, but might bootstrap a few 6s off that

gray thistle
torn dirge
#

heyyo~ whenever I try to install the LCP this pops up

IMG_0678.png
#

idk if its on the lcps end, ccs end or hell even my end, but regardless is there a solution?

dusk arch
#

You'll want to ask in either #comp-con or #lcp-tech-support

torn dirge
#

👌👍

tepid thicket
#

Does Interlocution from the Ego Bridge work with Skirmisher 2 (and maybe 3?) I'm not sure if the ability to share talents only applies during the actual skirmish (which would limit it to things like centimane) or if they apply as though you are skirmishing, including triggers etc (like the one space scoot from siege specialist).

dusk arch
slim lodge
#

wanna ask regarding the scrapper unstable reactor

#

let's say you're immobilised due to a grapple. does that trigger the roll?

granite radish
dusk arch
slim lodge
tribal kelp
#

EDIT: I've figured out a build i'm relatively happy with using HA rather than Horus. Feel free to drop advice on Sagi builds anyways!

I'm having an issue trying to pick a weapon to slot into my Sagittarius build. I want to play into the hidden, and i'm using Crack shot for obvious reasons, but that makes me want to slot another rifle in.
I'm looking to incorporate horus licenses for The Lesson of the Open Door, which'd let me use the Smartgun or Fusion rifle, but actually using either of them would mess with the whole staying hidden thing and using the bow.
Any suggestions or advice on building Sagi, either along the lines i've spoken of or in some other way?

golden sonnet
#

How does the Turret Mount from Worden I interact with Black Thumb? Could someone man it while performing a Rodeo?

granite marsh
#

in rodeo, you may only take the actions granted to you by rodeo

#

the final sentence of the talent says

While in rodeo, your pilot can only take the Extinguish, Field Repair, or Rig Vents actions granted by Black Thumb.

golden sonnet
#

My apologies, I appear to have forgotten how2read

granite marsh
#

you're good, that specific sentence is often missed - BT rodeo has a lot of potential weird interactions, you're not the first person to ask if X action can be done in rodeo lol

gray thistle
#

BT1 will still help a lot with the turret though by negating the first hit

dusk arch
#

Yeah, that particular combo works

#

but in general, Black Thumb is pretty combo-proof by design, and nothing I've made (or will make in all likelihood) will be intended to do an end-run around that

gray thistle
#

There's a handful of things that do technically work alongside it better than average! blobcatnerd

A few talents with effects that primarily function outside of combat:
Scrounger 1, 3
Demolitionist 1

And a system that doesn't benefit from your talents:
IPS-N Vigil - Sentry Drone

#

Much in the same way Grease Monkey 1, 3 and Autoguns synergize with Black Thumb

torpid bison
#

Hello. Read field guide to Suldan. Very well written. Points for having the most Jojo mech designs.

dusk arch
#

Thanks, @fast wave did a really good job with the C&H illustrations and I remain extremely pleased with them to this day

granite radish
#

what would combo well with kallarani

#

I want to try it but tbh I am overwhelmed with decision paralysis

#

I think the weapons it comes with look neat tho

gray thistle
granite radish
#

I’m going for an outlaw esque character

#

so kallarani looked really fitting both lore and mechanic wise

gray thistle
#

Absolutely, and it's very flexible too

dusk arch
#

As usual, I think the question of "what works well with the Kallarani" is, unhelpfully, "whatever you like"

#

It's meant to be a generalist frame

pulsar elk
#

If you’re going for outlaw feel maybe look for systems you like that can work for the character concept and see if you like that licenses weapons on it? I’d say Raleigh but I don’t think Kallrani wants to deal with loading.

slim lodge
#

shattered visage

let's say a champ has 3 structures. does it trigger when it falls to 2 structures (1.5 rounded up) or at 1 (below half)?

also, is the retribution reaction itself 1/scene or 1/round?

dusk arch
slim lodge
#

for cataclysmic throw of the ogre, if a size 2 is thrown and its path would hit a size 1 object, would it still destroy it?

or would it only destroy things that stops it/at the end of the thrown path?

dusk arch
slim lodge
gray thistle
#

Since Kallarani came up a few times, here's one potential build with some, I think, cool tricks:

-- C&H KALLARANI @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  C&H KALLARANI 2, IPS-N WORDEN 2, SSC Monarch 1, IPS-N Tortuga 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Reinforced Frame, Overpower Caliber
[ TALENTS ]
  Vanguard 3, Guerrilla 3, Infiltrator 2, Stormbringer 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:2 AGI:4 SYS:0 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:22 ARMOR:1
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:8 REPAIR:5
  TECH ATK:+1 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:6 EVA:12 EDEF:10 SENSE:8 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  Integrated: Typhoon Airburst Projector
  FLEX MOUNT: Deck-Sweeper Automatic Shotgun
  FLEX MOUNT: Sharanga Missiles
  HEAVY MOUNT: "Warthog" GPMG // Overpower Caliber
[ SYSTEMS ]
  MASS Pack, Personalizations, Rapid Burst Jump Jet System, Pattern-A Smoke Charges x4
#
  • First turn spent getting into position/activating MASS pack on the Typhoon or Sharangas.
  • Stormbringer 1 can be activated with Lock Ons you apply through the Typhoon/Sharanga.
  • A stealth package and some emergency soft cover to hide in with smoke charges.

Not really a powerhouse, but flexible and stealthy regardless of the engagement range.

#

(autostab over opcal is probably not a bad idea though)

granite radish
#

😍

#

I’m familiar with the worden

#

last time I played it I took the expanded compartments, the worden’s pilot turret (and would’ve grabbed MULE harness if the campaign lasted) & took warthog + mass pack to spread lock-ons while still doing (half) damage

#

flavored it as a truck lol

gray thistle
#

Heavy gunner gandiva with mass pack is also fun

void river
#

Hi, is it legal to have Serjeant1 and get 1 of your guys to mount Worden the turret mount?

dusk arch
#

if that's someone else's homebrew, my answer is "I don't know, because I don't read a lot of other homebrew, nor is anything in suldan built or balanced with other homebrew in mind"

void river
#

Serjeant1 gives the following:
THE WILD BUNCH
In combat, you are always accompanied by a single Squad of 10 soldiers who you control. They use the stats for Tier 1 Squads, save that they have 5 HP and Speed 3. If reduced to 0 HP, they are considered to be Down and Out and not destroyed. The squad always begins combat on a free space adjacent to your Mech, and take their turn in the turn order as an allied NPC. If injured, your Squad regains an amount of HP equal to your Grit at the end of each Scene. During moments of rest, you may spend 1 Repair to restore your Squad to full health.

void river
dusk arch
#

the same way you'd use an Expanded Compartment, but with less defense and slightly more firepower

#

the turret mount isn't meant to be a free extra gun for your mech, it's a low cost (1 SP) system you can put on your mech to give dismounted pilots something to do that isn't running around with a pistol

#

there are ways to do some stuff like "hand the mech over to an NHP and then you get out and shoot the turret" if you want to chance your pilot eating shit with just soft cover to protect them

#

"get a bunch of allied NPCs to man the gun" is not something I considered because as a rule I don't usually cross homebrew streams

#

If you wanted a strict rules interpretation, the turret mount can only be used by "a single size 1/2 non-mech character" and a Squad is not really that, nor does there seem to be any way within the talent to remove individual soldiers from the unit that is the Squad. Per the rules for the Squad NPC, which this apparently functions as:

group of soldiers acting together.```
#

but the actual answer is "mixing homebrew may void your warranty"

swift barn
#

Serjeant is from Waffenfabrik, which, was also not meant to be mixed with Suldan

granite radish
#

I think I saw a goblin build where you use core power to hook your mech up to another pc so it still acts while you can dismount and hop in the turret

iirc it also used systems with passive effects and weapons that automatically attack such as autopod (when procced) or autogun

#

you could prolly take a heavy hardsuit (2 armor, +3 hp) and black thumb 1 to at least stand a chance of survival

#

and maybe bring along a comp/con or nhp to give controls to on the off-chance that you do get targeted and get turned to a fine mist

#

oh and/or depending on how big your gm is on reserves, you could prolly try and roll a trigger to recruit an npc to man the turret mount

granite radish
#

anyways even if you’re not actively using it

it’s a nice fallback on the off chance that a friend loses their mech and gives ‘em something to do

swift barn
#

we're pretty sure the goblin can't do actions while symbiosing without an AI to run it?

dusk arch
#

yeah that's how you would use the turret mount if you were extremely determined to, is via an NHP or comp/con

#

note that you can't use it in conjunction with a black thumb rodeo (as that only allows you to do specific black thumb actions) but the shield from Rank 1 would apply to you popping out and mounting the turret, it still seems like a bit of a potentially risky play for what's basically a GMS assault rifle, but I can't stop anyone from doing it

granite radish
#

I suppose it depends on your gm’s target priorities

(ie taking out your mech and thus your turret or taking you out before focusing on the mech)

#

and to be fair, you could be risking your pilot's life for a worse weapon

#

gms rifle equivalent is good ole reliable (2 damage minimum/reliable 2 is nice for deleting grunts, targetting no-low armor npcs w/ low hp & chipping away hp from difficult to hit stuff like aces, hornets & invisible mechs, etc)

it just depends on how much you value it vs being a targetable option

#

I guess you could theoretically work with your party to make your pilot a less appealing target
cuz there are defensive/support options intended for helping other mechs that technically work for pilots because allied character is specified instead of allied mech

granite radish
#

(superior by design is there to remove the perma impaired)

granite radish
#

oh

#

question

#

how does opcal work on warthog if you split the fire between two targets

ionic badger
#

You'd choose one of the attacks to apply it on

void river
granite radish
#

thanks

ionic badger
#

It's because OpCal is applied on hit

dusk arch
ionic badger
#

yes, but OpCal is on hit, so it can only apply to one of them
it could still be halved potentially because its a multi target attack, but for bonus damage sources that only apply to one of the targets its a little ambiguous sometimes IMO

dusk arch
#

Overpower Caliber is halved if used on multi-target weapons, even though it's "on hit", to the best of my knowledge

#

put it on a railgun and shoot multiple people and it's halved, even if you only hit one

ionic badger
#

I do think it's perfectly fine to halve it, yes

dusk arch
#

something like nuclear cavalier is "the first attack roll" and would get dumped into a single shot rather than being split

ionic badger
#

well OpCal is 1/round on hit, so whether you halve it or not, it will still also only apply to one target

dusk arch
#

I really do not think that's how it works

#

The entire reason the "bonus damage is halved against multiple targets" rule exists is because tom found that having overcaliber get applied to only one target in an AoE/multi-target thing was a weird interaction, the intent is not "your bonus damage is halved and only applies to one person if you shoot an overcaliber railgun at 2 people"

#

With things like AoEs and multi-target attacks, if you have Overpower Caliber on that weapon and target multiple characters with an attack, then the bonus damage will apply on hit to all of them but will be halved (1d6/2), if you just target one character then you get the full 1d6 on hit, so this would be how it would work for the Warthog as well if targeting multiple characters with its alternate fire mode (which is basically just a more range-restrictive Sharanga Missiles in terms of how it functions)

gray thistle
dusk arch
#

Part of why I made it is I think there's an interesting space for low license 1 SP systems to exist as a casual "why not" sort of pickup, and part of it is that "I lost my mech and now all I have is a 2 damage pilot weapon" is a thing that happens a non-zero amount of the time to players, and the turret mount exists as a way to give them a nominal bit of protection and something more potent to shoot

#

it's not a system I think really needs to have a major plan beyond that, the same way I don't think Expanded Compartment does, the opportunity costs for it are fairly low and inconsequential, and the worden felt like an appropriate license for it

gray thistle
#

Thanks! Always interesting to hear the design reasons for that kind of stuff.

The ":p" face was honestly because I was imagining you to go "Ah you see, I like to see pilots die. This is my ingenious way to trap people into risking their lives!" Couldn't resist that, but it was a genuine question about why you made it as I wasn't sure.

dusk arch
#

As far as things to do as a pilot during combat it's nominally safer than running around on foot, soft cover isn't nothing, but it's still risky on the same level that being a dismounted pilot typically is. Black Thumb 1 makes it a little more survivable, but it's still less ideal than being inside an actual mech

#

Also people love to jockey even though that's way less ideal, I don't need to encourage people to risk their pilots' lives, they do that already

granite radish
#

doesn’t kallarani have a drone system that can jockey

#

work from home drone jockey build when

#

I feel like chomolungma could prolly pair well with kallarani's saboteur drone

granite radish
#

at least until you have better options anyways

worn plinth
#

Odd question, but how does impact gauntlet & impact fist interact with the Ultra Templates volley module?

image.png
#

impact fist isn't 1/turn, and given the way it's all worded, does this mean it can move, punch, move again, punch again near indefinitely so long as it has characters to target?

dusk arch
#

Impact Gauntlets are the Ogre weapon, that I get, but I'm confused by the rest sorry

#

You mean Meteor Fist?

worn plinth
#

yeah, sorry, meteor fist 😅

dusk arch
#

That being the case, the interaction would be that it can use Meteor Fist prior to each melee attack as normal as far as I can tell

worn plinth
#

Damn, that's gonna scare my players something fierce then. Love it.

dusk arch
#

Now, if it turns out that flying 3 spaces won't give you a followup attack on anyone then that's that

#

Volley Module very specifically targets characters, so you can't do any weird "target an empty space" cheese

worn plinth
#

or terrain either, but it does open up the possibility of other enemy NPCs, which would be a fitting way to depict it rampaging like a berzerker.

granite marsh
#

would you even be able to use the movement to get in range for the subsequent attacks? volley module implies that all of the attacks are made at once, roughly, with the language about prone - so they'd have to be valid targets in the first place

dusk arch
granite marsh
#

i mean yeah, but this would presumably follow the same rules as like siege specialist knockback etc.

dusk arch
#

Not to my understanding

granite marsh
#

i guess the question is just "do you have to declare all volley module targets before you begin attacking"

dusk arch
#

Someone doesn't have to be in range at the time you declare a barrage for you to do so with a Nelson, use the PMD to move, and then shoot them when they become a valid target

granite marsh
#

yeah, but i'm not sure where comparing volley module to a barrage vs an aoe template or smth like tiger hunter combat sheathe is more accurate

dusk arch
#

Triggered actions and effects in lancer are the big exception to "actions can't interrupt other actions" and in fact have to be used whenever they come up or not at all

dusk arch
#

Tiger Hunter Combat Sheath is a great example. If I make an attack with that in my Nelson, I am 100% allowed to punch a guy, then move, then punch another guy who is now in range

#

Both tiger hunter targets do not need to be in range at the time I declare the attack with it

granite marsh
#

you're allowed to move into range for something like a nelson using skirmisher (trait) w a mortar?

#

or i guess, into LoS in that specific example

dusk arch
#

so you can't move then shoot if that's what you mean

#

But yes, the entire point of the nelson passive/core power is "you can move between attacks so you can get into better range to hit people with"

granite marsh
#

well, the point is that there's no difference really between tiger hunter combat sheathe & a mortar re targeting - they're both attacking the targets as part of the same set of attack rolls rather than being two fully separate actions that prompted the attack rolls

#

so if you're counting nelson movement as after the attack action concludes (which i think is the normal way?) i don't think you could move for tiger-hunter

dusk arch
#

Again, these things still happen one after the other

dusk arch
granite marsh
#

i'm not disagreeing you resolve one first

dusk arch
#

It's not a thing to do with the weapon

#

it's a thing to do with the nelson

granite marsh
#

yeah but the thing is like, when are you eligible to resolve it

dusk arch
#

Okay I'm just going to say as the person who made the Ogre and was asked about how it interacts with Volley Module: I've given my answer

worn plinth
#

thank you for taking the time to answer by the way.

dusk arch
#

Siege Specialist is a really weird talent that doesn't really work like most other things in the game, the rulings on it don't really follow how most other interstitial stuff in the game tends to work, particularly in regards to valid targeting opportunities, inter-attack movement/knockback, etc

#

It's not something I think generally applies to most other stuff

granite radish
#

how would giant killer talent interact with saboteur drones from kallarani if at all?

dusk arch
granite radish
#

does that mean it can use the jockey actions mentioned in the talent (and/or the base ones available to pilots in general)?

dusk arch
#

Yes

#

It can use the base jockey actions, the actions it has unique to it, and gains the benefit of Giant Killer if you have it

brazen jewel
#

I've recently made a build using Giant Killer in combination with a few other talents to allow my pilot to fight alongside my mech, it's insanely fun and surprisingly effective, if pretty risky.

granite radish
#

what are the other talents?

brazen jewel
#

Infiltrator 3, Technophile 3, Giant Killer 2, Black Thumb 1, and Duelist 1, in an Atlas

#

Had one extra talent point because of ADJUTANT-Class Comp/Con

#

The essential talents are the Technophile 3 and Black Thumb 1, everything else sort of depends on the mech's build

south narwhal
#

Makes sense. You're almost as safe outside an Atlas as inside one.

alpine stream
#

Breakthrough Race REQUIRES A RACETRACK MAP

Victory Conditions: PCs move "The Ball"across the finish line before any enemy team.

Enemy Victory: An enemy team gets their Ball Carrier and Ball past the finish line before the players.

Enemy forces: 1.5 - 2 times usual. 1-2 Enemy teams with roughly the same numbers as the players. Both the enemies and players start roughly in the same location.

Special rules:

  1. Ball: The Ball is a Size 1/2 Indestructible device that must be attached to an Allied Mech or Pilot. while holding the Ball, the holder is called the Ball Carrier, and is Slowed and cannot teleport or be teleported. If the Ball Carrier takes Structure Damage or is destroyed the ball immediately drops to a space adjacent to the character who dropped it.

  2. Moving and Passing the Ball: Ball Carriers automatically move the ball alongside them as long as they are holding the ball (Slowed). Players and NPCs can pick up Balls with a Quick Action. As a Quick Action, characters can make a Hull Check to throw the Ball to an ally or free space. Upon a success they can trow it up to 6 space, 3 on failure.

  3. Kicking the Ball: Instead of holding the Ball, players can choose to RAM it or otherwise inflict knock-back on it with weapons, systems, or traits. Players are not Slowed while kicking the ball and are not considered Ball Carriers, however, moving the ball this way will make it so the ball is not in the same space as your character, and it can be "Kicked" by enemy characters as well. Whenever the Ball passes through a character's Threat, they may use their Reaction to make a melee or ranged Overwatch, either stopping or catchign the Ball.

  4. Barriers: while holding a Ball, the Ball Carrier cannot be moved outside of the racetrack. Any movement, voluntary or involuntary that could cause them to be outside the map stops them at the edge. Characters are slowed while outside the tracks, and the max ceiling is Height 5.

  5. Other than that, anything else goes

#

I made a custom sitrep for a full on race scenario

#

inspired by series and movies like Alita Battle Angel and the Pod Racing scene from Star Wars

#

I figured it might be a fun little thing to run in a Suldan Campaign

bronze sonnet
#

Oooooooooooo fun

opaque ginkgo
#

I just got greenlit by my GM to use the Apex Nexus, and I am already planning to strap it to my Empakaai

languid cosmos
#

worden gaming

image.png
dusk arch
#

owned

languid cosmos
#

I crit a veteran lurker through his shroud for 29 before resistance

#

He then failed his first hull roll with a 1

main plinth
#

Does the Kallarani Saboteur Drone benefit from black thumb shield? I am unsure and working through a cold.

granite marsh
#

I can't really see any relation between the two - bt 1 shield affects dismounts, which sabo drone doesn't do

dusk arch
frigid topaz
#

Anyone ever run an Orchis w/ Spatial Threader for Syncronicity?

gentle forge
#

What's something cool you can do with Gladiator? Any mechs or gear that work especially well with it?

dusk arch
#

Good way to throw a heavy melee weapon

simple torrent
#

been using the anti-cavalry melee weapon on my caliban and i was wondering what MC-BAC stands for

dawn sedge
#

My guess goes to Mounted Cavalry - BEEG Anti-Cavalry

dusk arch
#

Mechanized Chassis - Blade, Anti-Cavalry

simple torrent
#

oh it's

#

short for itself

dusk arch
#

The prefixes are based on old prefixes that used to be used by the GMS weapons in older drafts, for example the assault rifle was the MC-AR

simple torrent
#

oh like the earliest lancer drafts?

wicked tangle
#

Congrats on the new release! Is there plans to take Suldan into 1st party?

viral wave
#

no

swift mesa
#

There is not. It's third party and Kai has said a few times that is not changing.

wicked tangle
#

Radical! Just figured I'd check

dusk arch
#

A long time ago tom hinted he wouldn't mind me lifting bits of suldan and maybe incorporating them into first party work, he's aware by osmosis that things like Conscripts are very popular, but I feel that doing so would feel kind of weird. Maybe that's a me thing, idk, but I suspect it might get taken as "this guy's trying to use this as an excuse to elevate his homebrew to Official Canon Status"

#

that's certainly not a thing that's never happened before, I seem to recall that there was a big Binding of Isaac mod that got made official and various other projects like that, but for something like suldan which is very large and has a lot of moving parts, even IF such a thing was on the table (it isn't) it would be an enormous undertaking in terms of "tom needs to actually sit down and go over everything in here"

onyx oxide
#

There is value in keeping something like Suldan a personal project, I think - gives you the leeway to take whatever mechanical and creative direction you want without worrying too much about making sure every last thing will not only play nice with current official material, but also be future-proofed for later stuff. It's like an expression of what you, as an author, value most from the game

#

Plus, some homebrew stuff I've seen, as fun and balanced in practice as they can be, just would not fly in an official book for one reason or another. You can just do stuff in homebrew that the official game would (often reasonably) not care to touch

swift mesa
#

Third party has a lot of freedom to it.

dusk arch
#

there's a couple things I would probably go "yeah okay sure, twist my arm," people do love conscripts, but like I had people wondering if I'd take the GMS core bonuses and repurpose/revise them for solstice rain or winter scar and at a certain point it kinda feels like, I didn't make this just so I could pick it apart later, doing so feels like it would be kind of, idk

quaint beacon
#

as much as I love my beloved conscripts I do think it's probably better that suldan remain third party

like iki said, more freedom to it. third party stuff can be a lot weirder

swift mesa
#

Personally it would feel very...obviously third party products are products but it has an element of...you know how investors basicly went 'Yeah, comics just exist to strip mine for characters to make profitable movies'?

#

If that remotely makes sense?

quaint beacon
#

also having been here for the feedback cycles of dustgrave, solstice rain, et al

#

I do not want to see peoples' reaction to a hypothetical first-party suldan

#

kai gets enough vitriol for it from weirdos with it being third party

granite marsh
#

honestly if there's anything i want from suldan in first party it's more fun desert planets 😔 i like desert settings

quaint beacon
#

suldan's lore does fuck hard, it's true

granite marsh
#

i don't care what they're called or what mechs live on them but more deserts please 😔

quaint beacon
#

love me some desert settings as well

granite marsh
#

no worms or sand sharks though. those are overplayed.

dusk arch
swift mesa
#

Clearly you add the most destructive threat you find in deserts: Rabbits.

#

(Fuck Rabbits, Horrible Vermin)

granite marsh
#

i think more settings should canonize their equivalent to coyotes

quaint beacon
#

from what I understand 'fucking rabbits' is part of the problem

dusk arch
#

there's a lot of stuff in suldan that design-wise I'm very proud of, and in some alternate universe maybe there was a point where very early on when I was working on it I pitched it to tom and miguel and they said "yeah sure go for it," this is how things have sometimes worked for lines like D&D or Pathfinder

#

but by this point there's no real chance of tom deciding to "ascend" third party work to first party-hood

#

but also if the very early versions of suldan were what got the nod then it also wouldn't be in as good a state as it is now, so

quaint beacon
#

how jank was early suldan? I'll admit I got into lancer relatively kind of late in its development (like, after long rim release)

swift mesa
#

And I think that's for the best. As like while I support whatever you'd want Kai, I'd also find it kinda...there's that stereotype that first party is 'Inherently better design' and popular third party 'ascending' to first party would contribute to that assumption people have.

dusk arch
granite marsh
dusk arch
#

speaking frankly: a lot of it probably still is in that boat, and I imagine tom would want me to condense and consolidate a lot of stuff

#

a big example is the pesilat being an Improvsed Attack mech was a thing that you just kind of played around with back in 2019 and while I'm happy where it is now, these days a far better way of handling it would likely just be "a bespoke integrated weapon"

swift mesa
#

'Here is your Finger Poke Of Doom integrated'

dusk arch
#

a lot of stuff in suldan has over time ended up being shored up as much as stuff tuned down, or simply reengineered in some way

#

a self-contained example: the sabreur's smartblade used to be a weapon that gained power based on successively attacking the same target, it was "this weapon gets +1d6 bonus damage if you keep hitting the same guy" (not stacking, just +1d6) to be like "yeah I'm dueling this one guy, get it?"

#

of course the issue with this is if that NPC dies before you get to keep attacking them then the sword isn't really doing much

#

got tested and run through games, feedback came back "yeah this isn't doing what you want," so now it works with lock on instead

quaint beacon
#

this is the exact same issue I have with the bolt nexus actually lmao

#

smartblade's current iteration fucks though, big fan of it on, like. weird melee swallowtail builds

dusk arch
#

over time I've gradually messed with the matador's core power to make it less fiddly and more broadly useful, while the kallarani's barrage trait got adjusted to be less powerful (it used to give accuracy on multiple attacks), lots of changes and adjustments over an extended span of time that I for sure would not have been able to do if I had to, like, get it all done in a year

cobalt jetty
#

i do miss when Hypertuned Interface could literally kill you. that was sick.

languid cosmos
#

i do fuck hard with the CSSW's operational fantasy, the way it really feels like becoming a bunker on the field at a moment's notice, and would love to have something that feels as good in first party. however i'm more than happy having it remain in suldan because thats its home and that's the home made for it

quaint beacon
languid cosmos
#

no

#

that's why it exists

#

besides i gave the boss a second turn

spice girder
#

when you take stress from using the wordens core power to barrage as a free action, do you also need to do the stress roll as though you overheated?

quaint beacon
#

yeah it's a stress in every sense of effect

#

just doesn't change your current heat

spice girder
#

got it, thank you!

dusk arch
#

Same as if a Sniper deals structure damage to you directly via its deathmark

spice girder
#

Thank you muchly!

wicked rampart
#

Some of the stuff in this seems kinda OP. Ego bridge is just absolutely wild

dusk arch
#

Ego Bridge is a third level specialty license that costs 3 SP, requires both you and the firer to take 2 heat, and makes all the associated attacks at +1 difficulty

#

You could use that, or you could overcharge and skirmish again with your own stuff

wicked rampart
#

Right but like, if you're giving two strikers the chance to skirmish that seems like an absolute shit ton of extra damage. One difficulty is easily mitigated by a ton of strikers and so it's maybe like 6 heat over 3 frames (2 each) to do a ton of damage.

#

The more people affected the more ridiculous it gets.

#

Like, what's the most damage someone can deal in an offturn skirmish?

dusk arch
#

Have you actually tested this in practice at all?

wicked rampart
#

I have not, no. I'm reading over it to consider what to make available to players and if there's a reason why 'spend a quick action to grant all allies within range a quick action for the cost of 2 heat' isn't OP I'm willing to hear it out. It seems like it's unambiguously the best system to absolutely demolish any hard target in a scene and it's not even close.

dusk arch
#

Then I look forward to your feedback but otherwise I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with random "this seems OP, convince me otherwise" debate prompts

#

and if I'm being honest, it's not a thing I'm super interested in, sorry

#

Bring it to the table and it breaks something? Absolutely let me know, I'd love to hear it

wicked rampart
#

I posted here asking for input on the matter :V

#

If it's not OP then feel free to tell me why not, otherwise it seems OP. You're free to disagree with me but I'm not sure I wanna enable some wild shit at my game and then have to tell players they can't do that anymore.

#

Like you're massif staff. If this sorta' thing isn't unreasonably good as an option, will we be seeing something similar in published first party content?

dusk arch
#

This is an absolutely wildly shitty and inappropriate thing to ask

swift mesa
#

Trading 1 for 1, action-wise.

dusk arch
#

I keep my personal content and my massif-contracted content strictly separate, and subject to Tom's editorial oversight at all point

wicked rampart
dusk arch
#

I have always done so, and will always continue to do so

wicked rampart
#

I thought it was ALL allies.

#

Kai, are you the publisher of this content?

#

(I can't read so Idfk)

dusk arch
#

Yes I am, and it has nothing to do with my work for massif press

wicked rampart
#

You're absolutely correct and I can understand why you were so bewildered by my thoughts here. I misread a system and thought it was waaaay stronger than it was.

#

I'm sorry for misunderstanding your content and for posting in the way I did.

#

Part of the reason I was asking at all was because the content you've made seems incredibly interesting and I want to integrate it into a game I'll be running. I was concerned because some of the available options seemed incredibly strong.

#

Aaaaand apparently I thought that because I was dumb and read it wrong.

#

So that's totally my bad, sorry for stirring shit.

slim lodge
#

hmm

#

regarding the titan

#

let's say characters are on it and the titan is an industrial with wrecker

#

if it uses the wrecker, does it also roll to hit the characters on the launch decks?

dusk arch
#

remind me what wrecker is/does

slim lodge
dusk arch
#

I'll assume it's non-descriminate, and that being the case it'd probably be in the same ballpark as burst effects, i.e. the titan would be immune but nobody on it would be

slim lodge
#

cool, noted

gentle forge
#

I believe wrecker is non-discriminate yeah
it's just wildly spinning a wrecking ball

alpine stream
dusk arch
#

I started homebrewing the C&H mechs back when lancer was in its playtesting days, and the flavor text for them and their systems contained a lot of implied worldbuilding details that would eventually form a lot of the core concepts that went into the setting, and so eventually I decided to flesh out the setting more

torpid bison
#

Cool setting. Cool mechs.

dusk arch
#

The original plan for Suldan I had in mind was a smaller gazetteer sort of thing that would have had it as one world of several being detailed, but the more I worked on it the more I decided that I just wanted to keep going deeper into that one setting in particular

dawn sedge
#

Do you still plan to write about these different settings at some point? Not necessarily as developed as Suldan tho

dusk arch
#

nah because I never started on any of'em lmao

#

like that was the aspirational idea at first and then it was just "oh okay I'll just focus on this instead"

dawn sedge
#

fair enough

opaque stone
#

I think these have been asked before but searching the discord I can't find them, sorry!

In the current version of the Comet, for the Hunter-Seeker Network frame trait, it reads:

"The Comet's Nexus weapons gain Reliable based on weapon size (Auxiliary: 1, Main: 2, Heavy or larger: 3), or if they already have Reliable they add +1 to their value, and can still be used to make ranged attacks when Jammed."

Is the intention there that the "and can still be used to make ranged attacks when Jammed" clause is only triggered if the nexus weapon already has reliable? It sort of reads that way to me, but that seems so weirdly narrow (it only applies to the Bolt Nexus' "target acquired" profile unless you add other 3rd party material).

The second thing is with the SABR engine - it seems like as worded using it forces you to land at the end of the protocol movement, even if you can normally fly, but again, I don't think that's the intent?

dusk arch
# opaque stone I think these have been asked before but searching the discord I can't find them...

1). The two clauses aren't related, but even if they were the Comet gives every nexus it has equipped some amount of Reliable, so even under that interpretation there'd be no world where it had a nexus that couldn't fire while Jammed. The commas there indicate that "or if they already have Reliable" is interstitially modifying the preceding clause, which is then followed by the second
2). SABR Engines use similar wording to Rapid Maneuver Jets, GMS Jump Jets, etc, pretty much any flight thing that does not grant permanent flight capability. In all cases, if you are capable of sustained flight otherwise, you can use those systems or abilities without immediately needing to land if you are able to remain aloft via other means

#

like with Rapid Maneuver Jets, if for some reason I had those equipped on a mech capable of flight (a dusk wing, something with a GMS flight system) I could boost to gain the 3 overshield and special ignore engagement rules, but I would not be forced to land afterwards

opaque stone
#

Thanks! That makes sense!

nova slate
#

quick refresher on the chimera, can the chimera pilot barrage wth both talons or can they only fire one in a turn, not counting overwatch?

#

ah found the answer, i asked a while back

#

please disregard

south narwhal
#

If a Lycan has Kangto Endochassis, activates its core power, and then is destroyed, can the Kangto still inherit Slag Carapace?

dusk arch
south narwhal
#

Nice.

dusk arch
#

The trait is disabled under core power but, like, it still exists

south narwhal
#

The core power says it loses those traits.

granite marsh
#

Slag Carapace and Interference Field are disabled

#

it just says they're disabled for me, rather than lost. they do come back at the end of the scene anyway, so even under core they're clearly not totally gone

south narwhal
#

Okay.

dusk arch
#

Yeah which is sort of the key thing, I'm not sure how you'd have a mech with a trait that became permanently actually lost for good, but a trait that is disabled under specific circumstances still exists to draw upon

grand zenith
#

hey, quick question please: Can anyone talk about their experience with the Nightmare? I'm toying with the idea of replacing a Witch NPC with one of them since they seem broadly similar in terms of threat, but i wanted to see if it's significantly different in actual play

dusk arch
#

Many of its abilities basically give you your choice of two things that both kind of suck in different ways and it's up to you to decide what you want to eat more, do you want to be forced to move away from the Nightmare (provoking reactions) or do you want to take a chunk of heat? Do you want to be force-moved, or do you want to become Slowed and unable to take reactions? Etc

#

The quintessential example of this is Ephialtes Strain, which hits you with a permanent debuff, and the only ways to clear it are:
1). succeed at a systems save with difficulty, or
2). attack one of your allies, with accuracy

#

The choice is entirely up to you, you never HAVE to attack your friends

#

but one of these is way easier to do

#

compared to a lot of the witch's kit which is significantly more deterministic. Blind? You become blinded, full stop. Predatory Logic? You make the attack, the Witch picks the gun and the target

#

The witch does also have a deserved rep as more of a heat inflicter thanks to Tear Down, the Nightmare can in theory put out good heat but a lot of it relies on targets making specific choices to take heat versus taking other penalties, so it's not as guaranteed

#

A Witch can be a more immediate threat to people running their reactors hot, your classic nuclear cavalier fans, while the Nightmare can't as directly threaten them that way

#

so overall, I would say:
1). the witch is a hard controller with much more direct application of debuffs and effects, and also the ability to inflict much more direct significant heat
2). the nightmare is more about choice punishment and has more in the way of forced movement effects than the witch (who basically has none, usually forced movement control is the province of the Hive)

#

also the witch has longer range with sensors 15 versus the nightmare's sensors 10, so that might be a notable factor to consider

grand zenith
#

Thank you! The witch/nightmare is meant to deploy alongside a spite as part of a gauntlet, so there's some real synergy potential for both the pure heat and movement angles here. I'll have a think about it

frigid topaz
#

Got a question about how the Comet's hunter-seeker trait works with the Emperor's bolt nexus. Obviously the Target Acquired profile should get +1 reliable, but the Default profile has no reliable, so should it get 2 reliable? Or is it determined per-weapon, so only 1 reliable?

dusk arch
opaque ginkgo
#

For the Kallarani's Multirole Armament, if I were to use it on the Type-96 Gunshield set to cannon mode, will I get +1 accuracy on all attacks against foes within the blast?

dusk arch
opaque ginkgo
#

thank you very much

opaque ginkgo
#

Another one please

#

If I were to crit with a cannon that has AP/Paracausal trait, and triggers the Worden's walking fire trait

#

Would the resulting 1d6 inherit the tag?

granite marsh
#

as a non-kai answer i'd assume not for the same reason that executioner 2 or monarch's avenger silos don't inherit AP - different damage instance not directly originating from that specific weapon

gentle forge
#

Carrier token

Carrier_Nanny.png
red zinc
#

Does Saladin Fearkiller have any sort of art?

dusk arch
#

No, I haven't felt like commissioning new art for Suldan for a while since my finances have been tighter and I've been busy with other projects

grim arch
#

Can i use the passive protocol of Efreet to transfer the damage to its copy generated by IBEJI?

dusk arch
#

If so, then no

#

As a protocol you may choose an allied character within Sensors

#

The first rule of thumb for "can I do this with a spatial echo" is to look for the words "allied character"

#

You never count as an allied character for your own effects and abilities, and the spatial echo counts as you

# 
character.```
#

It can be shot at separately, it takes damage separately, etc, it counts as a separate physical body on the field, but both the echo and your mech are "you"

grim arch
#

ok, so just to be certain, if i use the Core Passive as a clone into a alied of mine, the clone is the one that are going to take the damage, or can i choose with one takes the damage?

dusk arch
grim arch
dusk arch
hollow plover
#

My goblin player is asking if he can pick up the Pesilat licence, how do people feel about the balance?

My one concern is that Uncertainty Trap already applies hard CC for two turns, and usually invades that do jammed or immobilise are 1/scene and last for one turn. And this stacks with them. So between Eject Power Cores and Uncertainty Trap thats 3 full turns of Jammed. Feels like a lot?

granite marsh
#

lol. uncertainty trap was not remotely the most impactful invade I used on my pesilat - that prize goes to the one that disables weapons and does 4 burn

quaint beacon
#

uncertainty trap is nowhere near horos 1's power level

it's only really a true jammed if they're out of range for whatever attack they'd want to make, which already limits the power level pretty massively

#

rupture is far more powerful, yeah

granite marsh
#

yeah, rupture

hollow plover
#

they both kinda add up. It feels like eject power core was 1/scene for a reason and all of these are just breaking that limit and making people unable to attack for way longer

quaint beacon
#

I mean, if a ronin is already up in your grill, uncertainty trap is doing stone nothing by itself

#

you'd need to force movement him away

#

I've played in games with pesilat hacks on both a chomolungma and a pesilat, they are fine

granite marsh
#

personally the immobilize from UT never was super useful for me because, well, I was already standing next to them and would have been able to chase them down anyway

#

so my GM always just ate the immobilize and they would die next turn

hollow plover
#

alright, if people think they're fine then that's good 🙂 It just felt a bit like eject power core's "1/scene" was getting laughed at

granite marsh
#

fair enough

#

you may be back after your demolisher fails to repair its ruptured hammer 2 turns in a row :)

hollow plover
#

if the response to my worry over one system is "it has an even more powerful one!" then that isn't a great indication that I should allow the licence 😛

#

I think I'll tell the player I'm up for trying it but not to get too attached in case it unbalances things

granite marsh
#

I mean with rupture you're approx equal to a TCB for raw damage output. which is pretty big but I mean that's kinda the idea, it's a full action improvised attack and then you gotta hit the tech attack too

#

I mostly mean it as a "pesilat, ime, does very well as damage first control second". so expect it to play like a blackbeard with a combat drill instead of a goblin that grapples

quaint beacon
#

the context here from my understanding is pesilat hacks on a goblin

granite marsh
#

ah, my bad, i missed that!

dusk arch
#

idk if the implication here is it isn't or not, but to clarify, it has the same 1/scene/character limitation as something like eject power cores

hollow plover
dusk arch
#

Rupture is mainly strong against dedicated single weapon using NPCs but has little effect against any other sort of NPC...it does nothing to tech users, for example, whereas Jammed will affect those types of targets much more severely, and it falls behind when used on NPCs with multiple weapons such as Ultras with ravager turrets or hellfire projectors etc

grand zenith
#

i had an extremely funny interaction come up between Cynosure and a Champion character and I just want to make sure I ran it right -- a Champion that had a marked character in one direction and an Unblinking Pursuit target in the other would be totally unable to move, correct?

dusk arch
atomic berry
#

Hey. So, talon drone. I know you can barrage with it (joined looking for this info actually), but for me to do so with comp/con action economy in active mode, I had to edit the lcp so it has both integrated mounts listed, copying the weapon after a comma inside the lcp file. Could this be added to the next update?

dusk arch
dusk arch
# dusk arch

In Lancer, whenever there's a case of "two things happen at once, which happens first?" the general guiding principle is "If there's any uncertainty about when certain actions or effects take place or resolve, effects caused by other characters always resolve first during a character’s turn." per page 68

#

If someone grapples a Nelson Flight Type that is flying, there's two On Hit things happening
1). For the attacker, On Hit the two of them get into a Grapple (which causes Immobilize to happen etc etc)
2). For the Nelson, On Hit it gets to move 2 spaces in any direction
Presuming that the attacker is doing this grapple on their own turn, then per page 68 the matter of "which effect goes off first" would therefore be the Reactive Verniers effect. Reactive Verniers isn't a capital-R Reaction, which has its own specific set of rules to follow (Reactions come AFTER the triggering action unless specified otherwise) it's just A Thing That Happens akin to Skirmisher 2

#

So far this hasn't really proven to be much of an issue, though I suppose if being somewhat "grapple proof while flying" turns out to be an issue it would be a pretty simple fix, but I'd be interested in getting actual playtest feedback in that regard before I did so

tepid thicket
#

Can an Ibeji instantiation use your Black Thumb talents to clear heat/overshield/etc yourself/allies??

dusk arch
#

"It" isn't using your talents, it's not a drone or like an NHP that's had control turned over, via Ibeji you are in two places at once

#

My answer to Ibeji/Black Thumb interactions has been "yeah it works," you poke your head out of your mech and this also happens via the spatial echo, note that your pilot getting tagged either within your own mech or the echo will result in the hit going to your pilot themselves, the echo doesn't really get an "echo pilot" that can die and doesn't affect your real self in the process if you do this

#

going into a black thumb rodeo is effectively on par with "stuff your mech does to itself applies to the echo as well, i.e. turning invisible, self-Slow/self-Immobilizing, etc"

tepid thicket
#

oh, so if youre popping your head out of both places, you're still only ("only") going to get the one black thumb action, its just that either your mech or the echo can do it. because you share action economy

dusk arch
#

yep, same as literally anything else with ibeji, it's not a way to get extra actions, it's a way to cover more ground

wind patrol
#

Is the boost action a single straight line movement in your speed or does it just double your “movement tokens” for that turn?

#

Bc I thought it was the former according to the rules but the Valkyrie npc seems to indicate that it’s supposed to attack mid boost

barren helm
#

I think you're combining several rules there that don't need to be combined

#

A 'boost' allows you to move up to your spees

#

'Flight' must be a straight line for any movement

#

You can 'fly' in two different directions if you move and boost in the same turn.

#

You can break up movement with an action, move 2 spaces, act, then move 2 spaces, with a speed of 4

#

But you must complete the action before moving. You can not start a Barrage and then, attack with one mount, move, attack with the other mount.

#

The goofiest version of this is if a mech flies on both Move actions and Boost actions, I believe with a Speed of 4, you can (flying the whole time at any height), move 1 east, boost 1 north, move 1 east, boost 1 north, move 1 east, boost 1 north, move 1 east, and boost 1 north with any of your other actions interspersed between any of the movements

#

The thing you can't do is fly in three different direction with two actions (unless you have Hover in which case you do whatever)

dusk arch
# 
Trait
1/round, when the Valkyrie hits a target with this weapon while Boosting or immediately
after Boosting, that character must pass a Hull save or be knocked Prone. When the
Valkyrie Boosts and splits their movement with an attack using the Nanocarbon
Partizan, they may freely divide attacks among their targets at any points during this
movement. The Valkyrie must be flying to use this trait.```

```SPLITTING UP MOVEMENT AND
ACTION
Any time characters voluntarily move, whether it’s a
standard move or something else, they can split up
their movement with any actions; however, when they
do this, any non-movement actions they take must
fully resolve before they continue moving. For
example, a mech with 6 S PEED could move 4 spaces,
B ARRAGE , and then move two more spaces; however,
it would need to complete the full B ARRAGE action –
firing with two mounts – before moving those final 2
spaces. It couldn’t fire one mount, move two spaces,
and then fire another mount.```
barren helm
#

Yup

dusk arch
#

Any character, PC or NPC, can interrupt a movement at some point in order to take actions, like attacking

#

The Valkyrie, specifically, while flying can do this but can attack any number of different targets along the path it's boosting (as it gains multiple attacks when it goes up in tier)

#

normally, an NPC like the Valkyrie who did this at, let's say, Tier 2 would have to Boost, interrupt the boost to make both of its attacks at the same time, then finish boosting

#

Instead, the Valkyrie can boost, make one attack, continue boosting, make its second attack (targeting someone who wasn't in range originally), then finish the boost

barren helm
#

Yup. Flyby Strike adds an extra wrinkle, I just thought clearing up the misconceptions about Boost needed to be covered first

#

cause the straight line idea is completely wrong and the movement token idea, while it works in most cases, doesn't account for 'when boosting' triggers, if you take it as literal movement tokens

wind patrol
#

Like if I have speed 4 and nerveweave (+2 on boost) I can move 10 spaces total and declare up to 6 of those spaces as boosted spaces as long as I do that part of movement after declaring boost action?

warped reef
#

Sooooo need to pick some brains. What's the best way to build a Kalista? Was thinking of mixing some Blackbeard.

naive cypress
#

You could potentially go Vlad for a different flavor of Motorized Tetsubo called Combat Drill that can potentially do less damage for the same chance of killing you? Some immobilize systems for weapons that heavy could be nice, though.

patent sage
#

Hi! The Chimera has the ability to teleport with its core active, does that mean that its Talon Drones can always teleport?

barren helm
lapis marsh
#

perhaps a big ask but has suldan been updated/retroactively balanced in context with the newer core content?

#

i know some homebrew is only balanced in context with certain 1st party content and not others and wanted to double check

dusk arch
#

Nothing has been updated since then

lapis marsh
#

understood, thanks!

dusk arch
#

I'm unaware that anything has been introduced which really stands out as a major balance issue in regards to any supplemental stuff

#

that is, with regards to, idk, "suldan + shadow of the wolf suddenly creates a super busted combo"

#

lots of people freak out about Enhanced Systems Upgrade and idk, maybe "ESU Chomolungma + Superthermal Blade" might finally achieve the oft theorized "actually busted heatgunner build" people keep trying to make happen

swift mesa
#

But it often runs into 'Okay but Be A Goblin and be better at all the Hacking Efforts it takes getting there'. XD

#

It's not like the corebook lacked Powerful Hackers

dusk arch
#

as usual I'm happy to take feedback on actual specific "I used this in my games and here's what happened" feedback if something does come up (versus "I looked at this and it seems OP" or "I heard from my mother's cousin's brother's dog on reddit that this is broken, y/y?")

#

I haven't done a lot of suldan revisions lately for a few reasons:
1). By and large, I'm kind of satisfied with the overall state of things. There's maybe a few things I'd go back to in order to maybe trim some stuff down or streamline it, but at this point a lot of that is maybe more on the NPC end of things
2). I simply haven't been getting a whole lot of feedback regarding anything, which isn't inherently a sign that there's nothing that could be changed, but I'm not real interested in making changes in the blind right now
3). I've been busy with other stuff

rotund axle
#

I'm mostly interested in the art of the alt frames but that probably falls into "too busy" as well as "not financial priority"

dusk arch
#

given certain recent life events yeah, I have a lot of respect for the artists I've worked with, I'd love to do more with that, but right now I'm being more mindful of my expenses

rotund axle
#

Oh shit right, that, sorry

sacred storm
#

I was doing some thinking on builds using this content, and was wanting the opportunity to talk about Suldan with others who have used it.

So I guess to get the ball rolling... who else here has put together a Titanomachy Pesilat? It's one of the things I just want on deck in case I can whip it out for a one off some day.

Secondly, the decent selection of one license level dip loading heavy weapons (Talwar---Slug Gun and Thirdeye---Seeker Catapult) make me want to look at new Stortebeker paths, I haven't gotten too far on this line of builds yet though.

#

I'm also figuring out what a Kidd+Shepard looks like, having no weapons and a base 14 SP set of deployables and other goodies.

Just a... walking pinata hahaha, but has to be some unrivaled support I'd think.

dusk arch
sacred storm
#

Oh?

#

Did I read into that wrong?

dusk arch
#

Thirdeye and Talwar are both Level 2 specialty licenses, which means you need one rank in any HORUS or C&H License (respectively) to take them

sacred storm
#

Ooohhh

#

Does that apply to all specialitys?

dusk arch
#

I say this not as an admonishment: you really should read the section in the pdf on specialty licenses and not go by comp/con

sacred storm
#

Yeah

dusk arch
#

Comp/con cannot be set up to employ the format that specialty licenses use

sacred storm
#

I can imagine I'm all turned around lol.

#

Lemme guess though

dusk arch
#

so all of the specialty licenses in comp/con are handled as "level 1 licenses"

sacred storm
#

The speciality are 1, 2, and 3

#

And they're automatically unlocked?

#

A type of.... here's more to work with?

#

With each tier I mean

#

.... ima grab that pdf lol.

#

😆

dusk arch
#

yeah

#

I really recommend getting the pdf for this one

# 
order to qualify for a specialty license you must follow the same rules for license
advancement as normal, with the difference being that specialty licenses can use any
other license from within that particular manufacturer as an appropriate prerequisite,
including other specialty licenses, following the usual pattern of moving from rank I to
rank II to rank III. For example, you'd need at least one rank II Harrison Armory license
of any kind (Barbarossa, Genghis, a level II HA specialty license, etc) to take a rank III
Harrison Armory specialty license. Rank I specialty licenses can be freely taken without
any prerequisites, though they don't count as a prerequisite themselves for taking other
non-specialty licenses.```
# 
an unconventional license to help emphasize that role, and the HORUS Thirdeye package
is exactly the sort of thing she's looking for. That particular license is rank II which means
that in order to take it she needs to have at least one HORUS license that's at least rank I
to serve as a prerequisite. Fortunately she has a rank I Pegasus license and so she can
take the Thirdeye if she likes, but she could also take it if she had a rank I Balor or Hydra
license as well. Taking the Thirdeye doesn't count as upgrading her Pegasus license itself
though.

Meanwhile, David thinks that a high-speed low-drag operator is more his style, and he's
considering the IPS-N Pointman specialty license to help him breach and clear close
quarters more effectively. This specialty license is rank I, which means that he doesn't
need any prerequisite licenses to take it, but doing so won't allow him to then jump
straight to a rank II Tortuga license without taking the rank I Tortuga license first. He
could, if he wanted, go from the Pointman to the Vigil specialty license without having to
take any other IPS-N licenses in between, since Pointman does count as a suitable
prerequisite for the higher-rank specialty license.```
sacred storm
#

Okay.

I was on the right track, they still take a license to physically get, though.

#

That's fine.

#

It does in fact stop my idea of dipping to third eye or talwar though.

#

But....

#

That's perfectly fine.

#

Are they ordered as 1, 2, and 3 in comp con?

#

Meaning IPSN Specialist 3 is Overlord?

#

C&H Specialist 1 is Shepard?

dusk arch
#

Yes, they should be listed in order in the license menu

rotund axle
#

....well, apart from the case of picking up a Level 3 Specialty License from a Level 2 one, but even still the fact that it works this well at all is pretty damn impressive

onyx oxide
#

Generally so long as you have level 2 in a manufacturer license (i.e. the same manufacturer as your chosen frame at LL2), you can take any of that manufacturer's three specialty licenses. It mostly comes up when you're dipping outside of your manufacturer

dusk arch
#

yeah, and so there's a nominal amount of investment in the level 3 specialty licenses which is where you tend to find things like NHPs, superheavy weapons, and some of the higher-spec kit like the Bunraku license

sacred storm
#

Mantle is interesting as it is a reaction on a weapon.

final forum
#

Hey I know there isn't art for the Saladin alt, But in your mind you kind of have a vision for how it differs from the regular saladin visually

#

I imagine in similar ways to the world killer Genghis

#

Bigger, chunkier, a little clunkier

dusk arch
#

I wouldn't say I see it as clunky because it's a newer design, it's more cutting edge. It's still big, but the Genghis mk1 looks the way it does (boxy, clunky) because it was THE first actual mech

#

But it shouldn't have the "this guy is a friend" vibe, the Fearkiller is being developed for things like "pacification actions on New Madrassa," it goes hand in hand with how I tend to view HA which is, like Miguel, "America" but in my particular case I see HA through a lot of Iraq/Afghanistan War lenses as well

final forum
#

Fascinatinng

#

But still pretty armored all things considered

#

Maybe something of an almost swat like riot gear silouette is what I'm picturing

#

Thank you!

languid cosmos
#

the saladin is the imac g3 with its charming bright fruit case
the fearkiller is the current imac which looks you in the eye and dares you to consider doing anything but what it wants you to do

sacred storm
#

BTW!

#

Can Pesilat overwatch with Improvised attacks? Using its core ability to claim threat 2*

#

I don't think it can, but I haven't had that hard confirmed or checked. It's something I was thinking about with punch+puppet+punch again.

south narwhal
#

Nope.

#

Overwatch is a Skirmish. Improvised Attack is not a Skirmish.

dusk arch
bright olive
#

would the kallarani's decksweeper fusillade apply impairment before the agility save is made?

dusk arch
south narwhal
# 
-- IPS-N Raleigh @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  IPS-N Raleigh 2, SSC Death’s Head 1, HORUS Pegasus 3
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Integrated Weapon, Kangto Endochassis
[ TALENTS ]
  Tactician 3, Orator 3, Field Analyst 2, Gunslinger 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:2 SYS:0 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:21 ARMOR:1
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:7 REPAIR:7
  TECH ATK:-1 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:5 EVA:10 EDEF:7 SENSE:10 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  Integrated: M35 Mjolnir
  INTEGRATED WEAPON: Missile Rack
  AUX/AUX MOUNT: Missile Rack / Missile Rack
  FLEX MOUNT: Autogun
  HEAVY MOUNT: Bolt Thrower
[ SYSTEMS ]
  SISYPHUS-Class NHP, “Roland” Chamber, High-Stress Mag Clamps, Armament Redundancy

-- GMS KANGTO @ LL6 --
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:2 SYS:0 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:17 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:7 REPAIR:4
  TECH ATK:0 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:5 EVA:10 EDEF:8 SENSE:8 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  INTEGRATED WEAPON: Missile Rack
  FLEX MOUNT: Autogun
[ SYSTEMS ]
  SISYPHUS-Class NHP, “Roland” Chamber, Armament Redundancy
#

You inherit Full Metal Jacket.

grand zenith
#

Just trying to understand Echo Cloak a bit better:

On a failure, they don't lose the action, but cannot target you and believe the copied character to be you until the end of their next turn.

lancer doesn't actually support 'false identity' like this so the player (or GM) would have to know that they're shooting at the 'wrong' target (since they failed the save and the item description would be public), correct?

If a character who fails this save chooses to make an attack against the copied character (prioritizing weapons and non-Invade tech attacks)

what does the prioritisation mean in this context? This would be resolved on a per-attack basis surely?

dusk arch
#

If it's somehow not possible to do so for whatever reason then you can move down the list, but those choices have to be considered first

grand zenith
#

So just to clarify:
If it's legal for you to use a weapon or non invade tech, you must do so in order to trigger the effect
Else
You may use an invade or a ram etc. to trigger the same effect?

dusk arch
#

Effectively yes

tranquil grail
#

Could someone elaborate on the wording at the end Blade Dancer 3
“Each time a reaction attack you trigger as part of this movement misses, you may make an attack with an Aucilliary or Main melee weapon against a target in range as a free action, and may continue to move 2 additional spaces.”
Does this imply a lancer could chain several reaction attacks between mechs so long as they keep misssing, or is the additional two spaces made after the overwatch and subsequent free action attack has been resolved?

dusk arch
#

You can't "bank" triggered free actions though, once they're triggered you have to use them then or not at all

tranquil grail
#

Thank you

lofty spire
#

in a campaign setting

Pesilat acquired

alpine stream
dusk arch
alpine stream
#

Each time a reaction attack you trigger as part of this movement misses, you may make an attack with an Aucilliary or Main melee weapon against a target in range as a free action, and may continue to move 2 additional spaces.”

and amber Phantom has this trait:

Battle Oracle
1/round, when a hostile character misses the Amber Phantom with an attack, it may pull a character within Sensors up to 2 spaces in any direction.

dusk arch
#

Yeah that's a missed attack, it can trigger battle oracle, not sure why it wouldn't

eager cedar
#

Here's a silly question; does Guerrilla 1 allow you to boost as a reaction(ie; from the Kraul Rifle) without losing hidden, or does the fact that it's a reaction and reactions break hidden override Guerrilla 1's 'you can boost while hidden' effect?

south narwhal
#

It's a reaction.

eager cedar
#

and a boost.

dusk arch
#

"Boost" and "take a reaction" are two separate things that can break hiding

#

Guerrilla 1 allows you to Boost without breaking hidden, it doesn't allow you to take reactions without breaking hidden

#

Boosting as a reaction is still a reaction, therefore the "you took a reaction" clause applies

rotund axle
#

Can you stack multiple Sticky Grenades onto one target?

dusk arch
rotund axle
#

Hell yeah thanks

dusk arch
#

It's an attack roll to place each one separately so it's already sort of gated by that

rotund axle
#

Are weapon mods part of the weapon for the purposes of Weapon Pod?

#

As in, if you have a weapon that costs 2 SP and a weapon with a Mod that costs 2 SP can you swap them normally while only ever paying 2 SP total or do you have to pay the whole 4 SP to legally mount both (at least, while the 2 SP weapon is not stored)

dusk arch
#

All SP costs have to be legal for your mech, mods on a podded weapon count as SP towards your SP total, so the answer is you have to pay the 4 SP

rotund axle
#

Ah shame, thanks for the answer

#

So only the base weapon's SP can be stored within the Weapon Pod, not any additional stuff like Mods

south narwhal
#

No, because you could have two modded weapons in the pod, and switch between them.

rotund axle
rotund axle
#

The question is, when you insert a Modded weapon into the Weapon Pod, does the Mod's SP cost get inserted too? And it seems the answer is no

#

Though, to double-check the base weapon's SP cost does get inserted right?

dusk arch
#

Weapon Pods can't be used to, and shouldn't be looked at, as a way to finagle SP costs around letting you have two different 2 SP costing guns for the cost of one

#

the value in them as a system is just "you can swap guns mid fight/mission"

rotund axle
#

Ohhhhhhhh ok so that makes sense

#

I was just tripped out because "all final SP costs must be valid" or whatever the exact line is is also there

#

Which, actually why is that there if the Weapon Pod doesn't change any SP costs?

dusk arch
#

Well the intent was to make it clear that you CAN'T do weird SP shenanigans

#

that is, you can't use the pods to "smuggle" extra SP onto your mech

rotund axle
#

Ah, whoops

#

Well I suppose that answers that question then

#

Thanks

dusk arch
#

Sorry for the confusion

rotund axle
#

Oh it's fine, it didn't ruin one of my builds or anything haha

south narwhal
#

Can the Charioteer boost while prone?

quaint beacon
#

yeah, being prone Slows you

#

it'd still treat everything as difficult terrain, though

#

bulwark mods for turbo speed crawling

dusk arch
#

To reiterate and confirm: yes you can do this, but as noted being Slow also makes you treat things as difficult terrain, but if you have ways to compensate for that then go nuts

south narwhal
#

I was thinking RBJJs, to make you no longer prone.

dusk arch
#

Also works

rotund axle
south narwhal
#

Fire shoots out your butt and stands you up.

jagged ibex
crystal vault
#

heyo! is the LCP file itself posted anywhere here? my laptop has had issues with itch for a while and I cant figure out why

#

i had it on my old PC but that thing went kaput so i lost the file, can someone send it over?

dawn sedge
#

.lcp provided!

crystal vault
#

got it hehe

#

oh hey also question for anyone that knows

#

the kangto seems cool as shit purely because of the trait inheritance

#

the frame itself is dubious power wise but as whats basically jacked pilot armor, hell yeah

#

so yeh a few questions on it
1: how does the inheritance work with traits like Storm Shield work on it?
2: with the EJECT action, how does that work with the kangto? can I have my main mech exist AND the kangto?

#

oh nvm on 2

#

"destroys your original mech if it was not destroyed already"

dusk arch
#

Storm Shield says "at the start of any scene the [mech] gains X overshield," well if you deploy the Kangto in the middle of a fight it's not the start of scene so it won't gain that overshield

#

if you take Imperial Vestment, that has a limit coded to "the amount granted by Storm Shield" and if your mech doesn't have a trait called Storm Shield, that amount is therefore "zero"

#

the kangto is dubious power-wise, correct, but the kangto is also basically a second extra "life" complete with 4 structure/4 stress, it is effectively a formalized form of Power At A Cost

An extremely common occurrence is "someone's mech died mid-mission, now what do I do?" and the responses are usually some form of "use power at a cost to give them a replacement mech somehow," Kangto Endochassis is a formalized user-side version of that bargain where the cost is A). you have to spend a core bonus, and B). the kangto itself isn't like a super great mech out of the box (though it does still benefit from HASE bonuses etc like anyone else)

#

the upside to this is because the kangto is a known quantity (i.e. you know you have it on hand rather than it being a mid-mission negotiation with an unknown cost) you can play around knowing that, meaning you can play more aggressively or take bigger risks with something like a safety net behind you, and it also more or less gives you a "less costly" 1/mission self-destruct

crystal vault
dusk arch
#

Yeah, the conditional trigger is "at the start of the scene"

#

Keep in mind though, if you inherit storm shield then you inherit all of it you're able to, and that includes "the [mech's] HP is not increased by its pilot's Grit."

#

so you inherit that and you get the overshield at the start of the scene, as well as the "this refreshes when you take structure damage"

crystal vault
#

ima just fastball a couple my players wanna use since im doing a goofy ass helldivers thing where everyone uses the kangto

  1. black witch Repulsor Field (The Black Witch has Resistance to Kinetic Damage.)
  2. balor regeneration (At the end of its turn, the Balor regains 1/4 of its total HP. When it takes stress or structure damage, this effect ceases until the end of its next turn.)
  3. goblin liturgicode (+1 accuracy on tech attacks)
  4. death's head neurolink (reroll first attack)
  5. manticore Castigate the Enemies of the Godhead (you know)
  6. pegasus By The Way I Know Everything
#

these are all probably good because they dont mention anything else

#

just wanna be absolutely sure

quaint beacon
#

kangto gives you the exact text box of the trait you inherit. nothing more, nothing less

#

so if it's completely self-contained, it works

lapis marsh
#

does agrippa's pack mule drone allow you to spread the effects of sysop 3's 1/round effect to another target?

#

im assuming not but want to be sure

dusk arch
#

That includes those granted by Sysop

lapis marsh
#

is that intended?

dusk arch
#

I mean, with all due respect, why would I say so if it wasn't?

#

"That includes those granted by Sysop"

#

like, I'm the guy who made all this stuff, if it wasn't intended then I would state as much

lapis marsh
#

fair enough, just figured i would clarify

#

thank you

dusk arch
#

the one thing that IS worded very specifically is Sysop 1 which states:

ACCURACY they gain lasts until their next skill check or
save.``` and it is done that way to make it clear that any other benefits that happen to be applied due to bolster-enhancing systems or whatever (which suldan is far from the only supplement that has those) do not similarly last any additional duration of time, only the +2 Accuracy component
rotund axle
#

Oh actually, question about Artemis

#

Do contested attacks against a Marked character's attacks count as attacks against them?

#

Y'know, Stasis Bolt

#

More broadly, does making an attack against a character's actions and effects rather than making an attack against them directly still count as making an attack against them

dusk arch
rotund axle
#

So I guess Artemis just wouldn't affect it at all?

#

I guess that makes sense, the attack is neither against a Marked character nor other character

dusk arch
#

yeah I don't think it would for those reasons

#

"reroll AN ATTACK ROLL" period, sure

#

you wanna stick stasis bolt on a gilgamesh and fish for rerolls, that works

#

same with the tortuga granting it +1 accuracy because it's a reaction attack

#

but if it's "reroll an attack against THIS TARGET" or "roll twice against a marked guy" or something then shooting their bullet out of the air won't count for that

rotund axle
#

Gotcha

#

I was more concerned about the 2 heat and difficulty, but that makes sense

#

Thanks!

bleak yarrow
#

can someone teach me how to Ifrit

dusk arch
#

@fast wave

#

@drowsy coyote and @ashen parrot also did a lot of stuff with it

fast wave
#

Tons of great stuff in the Efreet license. I recommend mixing Qublade with the gladiator talent. Allows you to throw the Qublade if you get a bad threat roll.

So much synergy with its other options too.

quick aurora
#

efreet rules

#

hands down my favorite license/mech, homebrew or 1st party

dusk arch
#

basically the broad "playstyle" of the efreet is being a defender at a distance

#

you put a colocation mark on an ally, then you wander away from them and go mess with someone else

#

if that ally gets in trouble, you can help protect them and/or hit someone back

#

your license kit is based on either moving people in weird ways, moving yourself in weird ways, or giving yourself more ways to interact with people from different locations

drowsy coyote
#

Hi 🙂

wicked tangle
#

Question about the Warden: it specifies you can Barrage with three weapons in its core ability. Does that mean you can't use the auxs if they are attached?

swift barn
#

No, the wording of Barrage and Skirmish actually has you choose weapons and then lets you use the attached auxiliaries if they exist, so you should be able to use those auxes.

#

At least that's our read of things, we're not Kai and all that.

dusk arch
wicked tangle
#

🤟 cheers

grand zenith
#

The Reaver's Containment Breach triggers only at half Structure (where it has >1), and doesn't interact with Stress Damage in any way, correct?

dusk arch
#

Correct

final forum
#

@dusk arch (sent this somewhere else for another company too, haha) hey, was curious, are there any cultures you think the languages of Suldan may most look like? i was curious for naming any npcs from there/repping C+H

dusk arch
#

i.e. Jun Chandrasekhar and Mattias Herschel, for example

final forum
#

thank you!! i thought i saw a lot of indian names, but thought id check

south narwhal
#

Speaking of naming, how did you decide to name speciality licenses? I'm looking at making some for my homebrew manufacturer.

dusk arch
south narwhal
#

Makes sense.

south narwhal
#

The problem with the Gajasura is that it already has the perfect weapon for it, the Demon's Fang. Putting in another melee weapon to use instead is gilding the lily. This is why you do this.

-- C&H GAJASURA @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  IPS-N Blackbeard 1, IPS-N Tortuga 1, HORUS Balor 2, C&H KALISTA 2
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Integrated Weapon, Universal Compatibility
[ TALENTS ]
  Duelist 3, Nuclear Cavalier 2, Skirmisher 2, Hunter 2
[ STATS ]
  HULL:2 AGI:4 SYS:0 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:19 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:7 REPAIR:9
  TECH ATK:-2 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:5 EVA:10 EDEF:6 SENSE:3 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  Integrated: Demon's Fang
  INTEGRATED WEAPON: Tactical Knife
  MAIN MOUNT: SUPERHEAVY WEAPON BRACING
  HEAVY MOUNT: Cyclone Pulse Rifle (Nanocomposite Adaptation)
[ SYSTEMS ]
  ERA Layering, Synthetic Muscle Netting, Siege Ram
#

Got a high Evasion Assassin? A Bombard sitting behind a mountain? A Cataphract with Capacitor Discharge? Some fucked up custom Ultra the GM designed to screw with melee players?

#

Shoot them in the fucking face.

grand zenith
#

has anyone tried Enhanced Systems Upgrade, or had it in one of your games? At a glance, it seems very strong, especially for a GMS core bonus

swift mesa
#

It's strong but it's like...Opcal Strong. Damn good but not game breaking.

granite marsh
#

i've played with it personally & had players use it, no real objections to it. it's strong, but it's not really strong in a way that has a lot of direct offensive potential, for the most part. the +2 heat hasn't really pushed heatgunning over the edge for my games, and the 2x invades is nice but really just kinda peaks with jam+puppet systems, which while strong doesn't really end up changing all that much

final forum
#

my favorite bimonthly conversation /joking

#

playful banter aside, both Ikiryo and riker said it better than me

#

its good!

#

quite good

#

but ive never felt it to be broken

granite marsh
#

its well known for being a highly volatile core bonus though - it has very negative interactions with homebrew that adds more interactions to invades especially. the liminal space + suldan combo is known to have a couple iffy points (turns out 2 effects that're +heat on invades combine to be too strong! wow!). i run "core+1" for my players, and im assuming anybody else is smart enough to understand "multiple homebrew combined is probably bad news", but its just worth noting

ionic badger
granite marsh
#

yes officer i do need all 17 systems points on this mech

final forum
ionic badger
#

I do definitely think a core bonus that is OpCal/AutoStab like for hackers was needed
and ESU does it very well

quick aurora
#

Tbh it even feels likw it requires more buy-in to make it as "good" as, for example opcal which you can just slap on any weapon. This one you would probably at the very least want another invade system with it to get the full benefit

Its an extremely fun core bonus, one of my favorites and has never felt overpowered to me from the player or gm side

ionic badger
#

because I saw it happen quite a lot for people that played hackers that they got their first core bonus, and didn't really know what to take because nothing seemed super appealing
so I like the Suldan cores a lot for that

ionic badger
final forum
#

its a cross homebrew cocktail of hellish nightmares

ionic badger
#

yeah but I think if the Morgana becomes broken by anything that adds 2 more heat, it's a little too volatile

dusk arch
#

also to be clear: nothing in suldan is made with any other homebrew in mind

#

this isn't an indictment of other homebrew, but rather specifically when I make stuff I am looking at first party material and not someone else's third-party stuff simply because there is approximately eight gazillion lancer homebrew bits out there and I simply do not have the time or wherewithal to futureproof it

#

but also: I can't imagine I'm the first person to make homebrew with something like a core bonus that adds heat to something, so I'm skeptical this is my unique sin

dusk arch
#

SP in general in lancer very seldom leads to a direct linear increase in power because SP-costing systems don't usually do that

#

systems tend to give you more OPTIONS, but those options generally require you to spend actions to use them, or act as passive riders for other actions you have to take to use them, and only rarely act as a pure passive buff (exceptions like the nelson's Bulwark Mods or the Blackbeard's Synthetic Muscle Netting)

#

having Every Grenade System In The Game equipped to your mech is cool and all, but it isn't imo a direct translated increase in power

#

while core bonuses, as a rule, do tend to be (or aim to be) a linear power buff

swift mesa
#

😛

dusk arch
#

You have +5 HP, you deal +1d6 damage, this mount attacks with +1 accuracy, you have more heat cap and are immune to Impair, etc

#

so I feel the +2 SP on ESU, specifically, exists in a realm of "nice little extra bonus, but not something that actively pushes it over the top"

bold sluice
dusk arch
#

as I have seen some people chararacterize it, noticeably without ever demonstrating what makes them say so or, like, giving any real feedback beyond "I don't like it"

#

the SP bonus also exists to make ESU somewhat more appealing to non-hackers even if only in a niche sense versus an ESU that is solely focused on enhancing Invades

#

the reason for this is that the flow of utility between damage stuff and hacking stuff in lancer is not equal in both directions

#

what I mean by this is: hackers can, and will, pick up core bonuses that have to do with weapons, damage, etc, not just because there kinda aren't really any hacker core bonuses but because, for example, a goblin can get useful work out of a juiced autopod or something, or a nailgun minotaur might like to have an accurate nailgun, or even just +5 HP, etc

#

but a lot of combat oriented mechs are not ever going to go "I should grab some hacking on the side"

#

the flow of utility is just not even

#

this isn't "hacking is bad," it's not, but it's not something that non-specialists tend to sideline in, and especially not for the cost of a core bonus

#

as such, my stance is that an ESU that was solely just "two options or +2 heat on invade" would end up being substantially more niche

#

it would basically be "only dedicated hackers take this"

bold sluice
#

Hacking exist as a supplement to combat, not an equal, is what you're saying?

dusk arch
#

I'm saying that hackers get more utility value out of having a gun in their pocket than a lot of damage oriented builds get out of having better invades

#

is your OC looping sherman going to invest in a core bonus to deal more heat with Fragment Signal?

bold sluice
#

Probably not

dusk arch
#

setting aside the large chunk of mechs who have shitty sensors and tech attack to begin with (the blackbeards and calibans of the world)

#

I'm even skeptical that +2 SP added onto it makes ESU a compelling choice for a lot of mechs like that ANYWAY, but it provides at least some additional utility that someone might want to take it for outside of straight hacking

bold sluice
#

But yes, what I mean is that the end goal is to turn mechs into scrap, and giving a gun to a nerd helps them do that, though just giving the soldier more guns is probably more effective

dusk arch
bold sluice
#

True, I did forget that

#

Tort with Puppet Systems is always fun, though

dusk arch
#

that is to say, you're sort of kind of in a ballpark, but I think that it's not as cut and dried, and I disagree with "the best status effect is dead" stuff, BUT nonetheless it is still true that in general more mechs and builds in lancer gain a tool in their arsenal that they can utilize to positive effect by having a gun with Overpower Caliber than they will taking a core bonus to give them Buffed Fragment Signal

grand zenith
#

damage is a tactically 'broader' space - like there are attacks that target edef but there aren't any invades that target evasion (in vanilla)

dusk arch
#

so that was my thought going into making it

#

the big loophole I closed off was making it so the two invade effects had to be different

#

no 2x Puppet Systems or whatever

#

otherwise, as noted, probably the biggest stress point you could put it through is "Jam + Puppet Systems"

#

with the chomolungma now in existence which postdates ESU by, I think a couple of years, you could double BCL in one turn for an immobilize

#

in the case of both BCL immobilize and Eject Power Cores, there's a 1/character/scene limit already

#

so the abusiveness of this already has a cap in place

#

sarah also raises a good point which is that on its own, ESU really only gives you +2 heat on fragment signal because no other mech beyond the chomolungma has more than one invade option standard

#

so the +2 SP gives you the ability to actually take something that lets you choose from multiple options

#

instead of serving as a tacit SP tax

#

like I could have just made it "you can equip one Invade system for free" but again, my goal with that component was to broaden it out ever so slightly even on the off-chance someone might go "at last, the thing I have yearned for all this time on my mech, worth one entire core bonus: an extra 2 SP of gear"

#

re: +SP on core bonuses, the closest comparison in official material is the SSC All-Theater Movement System one which basically gives you a free GMS Flight System, but the trick is that it isn't just "3 SP," it's "you get a better version of an already strong system"

final forum
#

This is also why I like the extra weapon mount

gray thistle
final forum
#

As you said, It's about options and it's about versatility, with SP usually

swift barn
dusk arch
#

like suldan wasn't made with anything like the superheavy mounting core bonus in mind and I won't be going back over stuff because of it, even if something weird happens to arise, it's like "oh well"

dusk arch
#

so yeah, having ESU exist the way it does (with the SP being agnostic) just makes that whole situation a lot smoother

gray thistle
#

Yeah, I'm very fond of it

#

Obviously there are potential issues with mixing it with some homebrew, but honestly... OpCal would have most of the same issues if OpCal was in suldan and ESU in core. Easy to base things on bonus damage in homebrew, though most take it into account because it's currently core.

#

Hmm, you did update Suldan over the course of a few years. But I forgot how you felt about going back to Suldan and changing some things about it based on new official lancer content that's being added?

granite marsh
#

sorry, I brought the conflict between homebrew thing up as a practical reason - the reason I mention it is because it's easy for players to miss the "Suldan" name attached to ESU in the GMS core bonus window if they're not paying attn

#

for my players, I let them use first party + 1 homebrew, and I had 1 try to combo ESU with another homebrew hacking frame because they simply didnt realize it was from another content pack (just looking too fast / not very familiar with the core bonus list)

#

I entirely agree re: the convo of designing trying to future/other-homebrew proof things, and I mentioned it not because of that, but just because that's a particularly sticky one if you do miss it

dusk arch
# gray thistle Hmm, you did update Suldan over the course of a few years. But I forgot how you ...

broadly, I don't think anything's been introduced into first party material that dramatically conflicts enough for me to feel like going back and changing anything. None of the Suldan mechs really get wonky with Superheavy Mounting in a way that makes me go "ah well this isn't gonna work" in the same way that for five nanoseconds the Amber Phantom used to only have two mounts before I remembered, oh right

#

There's like...all of two Shield tagged systems, neither of which does anything dumb with the Kutuzov

#

if anything the existence of the Tempest Charged Blade makes the Motorized Tetsubo maybe feel a little "redundant" but the tetsubo still has enough extras going for it that it's fine coexisting in the Threat 2 Superheavy Melee space, etc

#

Sysop very specifically is worded so it doesn't cause issues with Bolster-augment systems not even necessarily as a "Suldan compatibility" thing but because I know lots of people like to make Bolster-type boosters and wanted to make it so that I wasn't throwing a wrench in a bunch of peoples' work at once

#

idk probably the thing that would be most prone to causing some sort of "creep" between successive first party material releases and Suldan would maybe be the Chomolungma which can do weird and wacky stuff with additional hacks and you can slap ESU on it and use nuclear cavalier system crusher tech for additional heat and try to mega turbo heatgun people and, like, maybe that's the big one, but I'm not yet convinced that this is transformatively different from "just what the Chomolungma does anyway"

gray thistle
gray thistle
dusk arch
#

Probably the biggest successive "combo piece" there is the superthermal blade, which people naturally immediately have rushed to try and break, and so far the reports coming back have been "it's not really as broken as everyone feared/hoped for"

gray thistle
#

Yeah, it's not really that much better than throwing out another invade, but requiring a bunch of extra investment... and limited.

dusk arch
#

and getting right up in melee which, sure, it's not that you can't do it, and CQB chomolungma has been a thing for a while, but it feels like a lot of hoops to jump through

gray thistle
#

Yeah, I've made a lot of different chomos, including a few melee ones. Wonder if I'd even have space for it. Might want to build it very differently.

But that's kinda the beauty of it. More build variety

grand zenith
#

i have a player who's interested in the qublade's variable threat but doesn't want to go all the way down the efreet license track -- if I wanted to convert that feature only into a mod, how would you balance it? I was thinking 2SP, not valid for superheavy melees.

dusk arch
#

uhhhhhhhhh

#

hmm

#

messing with melee threat is one of those things that largely doesn't matter until it does (mainly for executioner purposes)

#

for example, having a threat of 1d3+1 on most heavy melee weapons would constitute a straight buff, because only one first-party heavy melee weapon has a threat higher than 2

#

so like yeah I'll put a mod on my nanocarbon sword that takes it from Threat 2 to Threat 2-4, because I'm not really losing anything (unless I was real married to putting thermal charges on it or something I guess) and potentially gaining some sick executioner procs

#

on the other hand, I probably wouldn't put a mod on my nanocarbon sword that gave it 1d3 threat because that's a 2/3 chance to be at best value neutral and potentially worse, and a 1/3 chance to have any positive effect

#

it's the sort of thing that I feel like kind of goes with the qublade specifically because the qublade is designed around it, I'm not sure that it's something that translates to other melee weapons well, if that makes sense

#

like I would want to know why they want the effect

grand zenith
#

hmmmm, restricting it to Main or below would close that loophole then, wouldn't it? This is for a lycan build and they're basically only using it to make themselves a bigger problem once they get stuck in while running silent

grand zenith
#

so i'm trying to square the circle here

dusk arch
#

I'm not trying to say "tell your player it's bad" but, like, if I wanted to be a main melee menace with a lycan, you know what I'd grab? A war pike

#

threat 3, knockback 1, it's honestly a real good control tool

#

If they want it just as like a special weird threat range version of a Torch or something, I'd consider 2 SP probably "okay" for it

grand zenith
#

they were also looking at vlad's impact lance, which has something very similar going on

dusk arch
#

if it's a superthermal blade I'd maybe be like ehhhhhhhh

grand zenith
#

yeah fair enough, i guess giving them the whole weapon is just mechanically safer than trying to come up with some weird custom mod for it as well.

#

i just need to figure out what my pound of flesh is gonna be

dusk arch
#

The Qublade IS a pretty compelling Lycan choice

grand zenith
#

yeah and it thematically ties in with it as well, being a horus weapon and doing similar teleportation bullshit. i like it as an idea for sure

dusk arch
#

I would say if anything its issue is that it does no self-heat, which means they need to do something else for Power Flux procs

charred cairn
#

heya there y'all! Just wanted to post my kitbashed matador frame her c:

image.png
dusk arch
#

Nice, love that guy

charred cairn
south narwhal
#

"If you're emitting electromagnetic signals, then FUCK YOU!"

dusk arch
#

I hope this email kills us both

final forum
gray thistle
outer ibex
#

bee

gray thistle
#

Saboteur Drone works fine alongside Agrav Vane, right? 👀

gray thistle
#

Ok, changed my mind. Legion Nexus too tempting, as are easily accessible repairs for saboteur drones 👀

# 
[ LICENSES ]
  C&H KALLARANI 3, HA Gilgamesh 3
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Integrated Ammo Feeds, Superior Logistics
[ TALENTS ]
  Engineer 3, Grease Monkey 3, Drone Commander 1, Walking Armory 1, SPACEBORN 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:0 ENGI:4
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:21 ARMOR:1
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:11 REPAIR:6
  TECH ATK:0 LIMITED:+5
  SPD:4 EVA:8 EDEF:8 SENSE:10 SAVE:14
[ WEAPONS ]
  Integrated: Prototype Weapon III
  MAIN MOUNT: SUPERHEAVY WEAPON BRACING
  FLEX MOUNT: Scavenger Nexus
  HEAVY MOUNT: Legion Nexus
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Saboteur Drone, Turret Drones x8, Personalizations```
#

Integrated Ammo Feeds might be overkill, and/or grease monkey 🤔

south narwhal
#

Speaking of Gilgamesh, no one here talked about how we have our first non-Ordnance, non-Loading Heavy Rifle that actually hits things.

# 
-- SSC REAPER DART @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  SSC Death’s Head 2, HA Gilgamesh 1, HA Saladin 3
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Heatfall Coolant System, Overpower Caliber
[ TALENTS ]
  Technophile 3, Nuclear Cavalier 2, Tactician 2, Black Thumb 2
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:0 ENGI:4
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:19 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:9 REPAIR:5
  TECH ATK:0 LIMITED:+2
  SPD:5 EVA:8 EDEF:8 SENSE:20 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  MAIN/AUX MOUNT: Assault Rifle / MC-LMG Light Machine Gun
  HEAVY MOUNT: Legionnaire Battle Rifle (Paracausal Mod) // Overpower Caliber
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Enlightenment-Class NHP, High-Stress Mag Clamps, Core Siphon, Armament Redundancy, Flash Anchor
#

It's LL1, too.

#

And the "+2 reliable" part of LBR works with the base 3 reliable too.

#

"Fuck you, Mirage!" loads rifle with murderous intent

gray thistle
#

Yeah, it's kind of a "basic rifle" with built-in pseudo-walking armory, feels great

south narwhal
#

I picked up OpCal because I can get accuracy through Tac 2 or Lockon.

#

Or even Core Siphon.

tacit rampart
#

Checking out the Suldan NPCs for the first time, and wow there are a lot of them 0_0

#

And they’re niche but in really interesting ways, at least as far as I’ve read

#

Conscripts and Transports specifically