#Field Guide to Suldan

1 messages · Page 6 of 1

round basalt
#

I straight up missed it says an ally

#

This answers a lot of my questions, I was thinking it was a way to cast on yourself. Thank you!

dusk arch
#

you can only move characters using Crashing Avalanche Module to free spaces, and my general understanding of the "collision" stuff is it has to involve something moving and/or being moved "into" the other thing's space

#

if that makes sense

slim lodge
#

i see i see

but i should be able to reposition it into a better space, then move it via movement and thus collide it, right?

dusk arch
#

if you can pull that off then sure

slim lodge
#

neat

dusk arch
#

you just can't pick the missile up and slam it down right on top of an occupied space

round basalt
#

Just to be 100% clear, does this mean you can't attack yourself either?

There's a few guns that teleport the thing you shot, as an example.

#

Like could the echo shoot me+enemies using slip gun and move me to safety and them away or just them away

#

Alternatively, if I can shoot myself

I don't count as an ally so slipgun does not do half damage?

dusk arch
#

that means with attacks as well, you can't shoot yourself with a pistol to proc your own reactive weave, for example

rotund axle
#

So I guess this is a good time to mention again, what's Echo Mine's area? Cuz it doesn't list it in the LCP

dusk arch
#

the broad exception to this is AoE stuff

round basalt
#

Slipgun is AoE.

#

Cone 3

dusk arch
#

i.e. you can get caught in the splash of your own RPG

#

with this notionally in mind, I think my ruling on this would probably be that if you fire a slipgun that has your echo/your body in the AoE that you can be affected by it same as if you dropped a warp grenade at your feet, however you still do not count as an ally and therefore do not get any half damage benefit

dusk arch
rotund axle
#

Thanks chief!

round basalt
#

I CAN SLIPGUN MYSELF

#

This item is now going into my Hall of Mirrors build

dusk arch
#

it's a weird case of an AoE effect that can't normally affect you being turned into one that can, but you've always been able to drop grenades at your feet and technically you can shoot a gravity gun in such a way that it affects you too

#

but you can't shoot your echo with a warp rifle

#

or a pistol or etc

round basalt
#

I was trying to min max action economy to drop as many Hall of Mirrors as possible in a single turn and this is a guaranteed move AND attack which means two potential sources of damage (from Hall of Mirrors and the shot itself)

#

Just gotta shoot my echo or have my echo shoot me with a slip gun while surrounded by enemies :>

slim lodge
#

if I interpolate the enemy and use ram, I can knock them in any direction, right?

dusk arch
#

rams do knockback, and knockback unless specified is always "away from the attacker as directly as possible"

#

i.e. balance control lockout is "knocked back 2 spaces in any direction" but ram is just "knocked back 1 space" and so it's always going to be away from your mech regardless of the intervening distance

slim lodge
#

i see i see

#

let's say a pesilat has 2 into brawler, which gives the improvised attack knockback, and has the beckoner invasion system

I hit with improvised attack and knock them back 2, then invade them with the free invade it provides. does the effect of the invade occurs after I knock them back, or before?

since if it can occur after I knock them back, is it possible then to use SUMMON on them to pull myself closer?

rotund axle
#

Pretty sure the Knockback applies first as it's an on-hit effect as part of the attack while the Invade is a completely different free action

slim lodge
#

i see i see

#

is it then possible to use the free invade to pull myself closer?

#

via Summon?

rotund axle
#

As long as you're in Range 3 of them yeah

dusk arch
#

broadly speaking, triggered free actions are a thing in lancer which bypasses the general rule of "actions can't take place in the middle of actions"

rotund axle
#

Does that mean free actions can take effect before on-hit effects?

dusk arch
#

for example, duelist 3 gives you a free action which procs off of a successful melee attack, and you can use it in the middle of a barrage (and in fact you have to)

dusk arch
#

duelist 3 is very specific about "after the triggering attack resolves"

rotund axle
#

Ah gotcha

#

Oh right btw, Pesilat's invade still abides by its Sensors right? No range 10 IA Invades with Interpolate?

dusk arch
#

but like with disdainful blade

# 
attack, you may also throw an AUXILIARY melee
weapon as an attack against any character within
RANGE as a free action. This attack can’t deal bonus
damage.```
#

there's really nothing here that says you can't throw the aux weapon immediately in response to landing the initial hit

dusk arch
rotund axle
#

Gotcha gotcha

dusk arch
#

similar to how an interpolated disdainful blade won't let you melee someone from range 20 and then throw a knife at someone else at range 20

slim lodge
#

can falling star module be aimed at objects or no?

dusk arch
#

you can use it to attack objects, yeah

slim lodge
#

neat

slim lodge
#

with the Pesilat core power, is the hitting two people count as one attack? (bonus damage applies to both but halved, eg unarmed melee and nuccav bonus)

or does it count as two attacks? (two different aims and results, first one takes nuccav, while I can trigger the unarmed melee bonus for the other)

dusk arch
#

sharanga missiles are the same thing as the pesilat core power, so is the zheng's tiger-hunter combat sheath, in all cases if you choose to attack two targets then your bonus damage will be halved regardless of how many you hit

#

like it IS "two attacks" with two to-hit rolls etc, but what matters is you're making multiple attacks with the same action/weapon against multiple targets, and that's what bonus damage splitting largely cares about

#

some instances of bonus damage don't get split, nuclear cavalier specifies it applies its bonus damage to "the first attack roll" and this is generally taken to mean that it all gets shunted into one guy regardless of targeting, but the pesilat's own bonus damage trait is going to be split

slim lodge
#

i see i see

#

thanks for clarifying!

#

if there are two guys, I have Brutal 3, and the first improvised attack with my core power misses, does that add +1 accuracy to the roll gainst the second guy?

ionic badger
#

Yes

slim lodge
#

neat

dusk arch
#

yep, or if you fire a big AoE like a siege cannon, same thing

slim lodge
#

gladiator terashima atlas really is just anime

steel fern
#

Not necessarily! It could also be a Warframe.

main plinth
steel fern
#

With that much skintight pleather? Definitely a different section at the local DVD store

languid cosmos
#

Ah, the anime section

hasty pulsar
chilly plover
#

That short was badass

sudden lotus
#

Does Pesilat I shadowfist stop the target from using arcing weapons?

#

I’m assuming how its flavored is that shadowfist turns off the target’s visual sensors or something

quaint beacon
#

shadowfist stops them from being able to draw LoS, arcing/seeking weapons ignore LoS, they still get to shoot them wherever they want

rotund axle
#

Does Auto-Adjusting Weight's extra threat only apply for targeting characters with the initial attack roll or all effects that rely on Threat?(I.E. Executioner)

dusk arch
#

It's 1/round when you attack

#

so only for that purpose

rotund axle
#

So only for the initial attack roll? Everything else including Executioner and the like don't benefit from it?

#

Like, Exec 1 is a completely different attack yes, but Exec 2 and 3 are the same attack

dusk arch
#

You do not get executioner 2's benefit, no

rotund axle
#

Alright

#

Thanks

dusk arch
#

Executioner 3 is a reroll, it counts for that fine since it is not technically "two different attacks"

rotund axle
#

I see I see

dusk arch
#

but for separate stuff that's just "what is your weapon's threat" the mod won't influence that, you get the +1 threat to smack someone with but that's the extent of it

rotund axle
#

Makes sense

slim lodge
#

forgot, regarding pesilat and brawler 2

when your imp attack lands, does the hack happen immediately as the attack lands or after the attack is through?

dusk arch
#

triggered free actions occur immediately when the trigger happens, the trigger for the pesilat's core passive invade is "on hit"

slim lodge
#

i see alright

#

man, with efreet license 2,that thing can become King Crimson

dusk arch
#

to be clear, when multiple things occur "on hit/crit" then you are allowed to choose the order in which they occur, this is how the blackbeard's chain axe is able to apply the "target becomes shredded" on crit effect BEFORE you deal the damage with it

#

which effectively allows you to bypass resistance/prevent resistance stuff when you crit someone with it and have it apply for that attack

slim lodge
#

making an archer think twice before shooting at the pesilat

dusk arch
#

but otherwise triggered stuff can't be banked for later

#

like how with duelist 3 and its free ram/grapple, you can't finish out the rest of your barrage and THEN use it

slim lodge
#

i see i see

abstract lintel
slim lodge
#

it'll be such a bad decision, especially if that action occurs on my turn

either it shoots me and I can JoJo them, or they let me move in to fucking wreck their friend

slim lodge
abstract lintel
#

Couple good options:

  1. Balor 1 for Scanner Swarm

  2. Blackbeard 1 for Synthetic Muscle Netting.

  3. Zheng 1 for Total Strength Suite is quite good.

#

-- C&H PESILAT @ LL9 --
[ LICENSES ]
IPS-N Blackbeard 1, C&H PESILAT 3, HORUS EFREET 2, HORUS Balor 1, IPS-N Zheng 2
[ CORE BONUSES ]
Enhanced Systems Upgrade, Mount Retrofitting, Reinforced Frame
[ TALENTS ]
Brutal 3, Brawler 3, Duelist 3, CYBORG 1, Pankrati 1, Hunter 1
[ STATS ]
HULL:4 AGI:4 SYS:2 ENGI:1
STRUCTURE:4 HP:28 ARMOR:0
STRESS:4 HEATCAP:7 REPAIR:7
TECH ATK:+4 LIMITED:+0
SPD:7 EVA:14 EDEF:12 SENSE:5 SAVE:16
[ WEAPONS ]
AUX/AUX MOUNT: Tiger-Hunter Combat Sheathe / Tactical Knife // Mount Retrofitting
[ SYSTEMS ]
Synthetic Muscle Netting, Dipping Swallow Module, Metafold Shunt, Scanner Swarm, Crashing Avalanche Module, //serpent_FANG, //HEARTSHATTER V. 5.palm, Total Strength Suite I, Total Strength Suite II, Personalizations

#

That's my LL9 build.

#

Enhanced Systems Upgrae is an absolute must.

slim lodge
abstract lintel
#

Scanner Swarm is VERY good. Just Accuracy on all your tech attacks? What are you, a Goblin?

slim lodge
#

lol

#

I'm still LL 1, but my planned build for LL6 is this

[ LICENSES ]
C&H PESILAT 3, HORUS EFREET 2,
SSC Mourning Cloak 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
Enhanced Systems Upgrade, Emergency Reactor Override (better overheating table)
[ TALENTS ]
Nuclear Cavalier 3, Brutal 2,
Brawler 2, Hacker 2
[ MECH ]
« CALL_OF_THE_NIGHT »
C&H PESILAT
H:4 A:0 S:0 E:4 SIZE:1
STRUCTURE:4 HP:19 ARMOR:0
STRESS:4 HEAT:10 REPAIR:7
ATK BONUS:3 TECH ATK:2 LTD BONUS:2
SPD:5 EVA:10 EDEF:10 SENS:5 SAVE:14
[ WEAPONS ]
INTEGRATED MOUNT: Fuel Rod Gun
AUX/AUX MOUNT: Fold Knife / Fold Knife
[ SYSTEMS ]
Crashing Avalanche Module, Synthetic Muscle Netting,
Dipping Swallow Module, Entanglement Leash,
Metafold Shunt, //HEARTSHATTER V. 5.palm,
Falling Star Module

#

scanner swarm wouldn't be a bad idea actually

slim lodge
abstract lintel
#

I don't believe so, since it's not an attack. But Knockout Blow comes in SO clutch, and you can get it a lot if you activate Demon Tiger Overdrive.

#

What's the Mourningcloak in there for?

#

Oh, fold knives.

#

Someone pointed out to me that if you're going to skirmish at any point in time with an Aux Melee weapon (and you for sure will) Hunter 1 is just free movement.

slim lodge
#

hmm, true true

slim lodge
#

that and also getting rid of exfess heat

#

for pesilat's rupture, when they make an engineering check, does that clear the burn or just get the weapon working again?

#

[ MECH ]
« CALL_OF_THE_NIGHT »
C&H PESILAT
H:4 A:0 S:2 E:2 SIZE:1
STRUCTURE:4 HP:19 ARMOR:0
STRESS:4 HEAT:8 REPAIR:7
ATK BONUS:3 TECH ATK:4 LTD BONUS:1
SPD:5 EVA:10 EDEF:12 SENS:5 SAVE:14
[ TALENTS ]
Nuclear Cavalier 3, Brawler 3,
Brutal 2, Hunter 1
[ LICENSES ]
C&H PESILAT 3, HORUS EFREET 2,
HORUS Balor 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
Enhanced Systems Upgrade, Emergency Reactor Override
[ WEAPONS ]
INTEGRATED MOUNT: Fuel Rod Gun
AUX/AUX MOUNT: Tactical Knife / Tactical Knife
[ SYSTEMS ]
Crashing Avalanche Module, Synthetic Muscle Netting,
Dipping Swallow Module, Entanglement Leash,
Metafold Shunt, //HEARTSHATTER V. 5.palm,
Scanner Swarm, //shadowfist

abstract lintel
abstract lintel
slim lodge
#

cool

slim lodge
#

does an echo from the IBEJI-NHP require line of sight to place it?

as in, can I place it behind a wall that I don't have line of sight to?

dusk arch
#

the general rule of lancer is "line of sight is required unless it specifically says otherwise"

slim lodge
#

i see i see

#

but can i, if I have made the echo, enter an area where I don't have LoS to it but I am still in range 5 (eg, I go into a building while the echo stays outside)

slim lodge
#

also, if pesilat has sekhmet and it lands an improvised attack while sekhmet is active, can it take the tech action or no? it only says that I can't do a ranged action.

dusk arch
dusk arch
#

but if something gives a sekhmet-active mech a free tech attack and that action can't be used for either of those things, nothing prevents its use

slim lodge
#

neat, so I can improvised attack (since i have no melee weapons) and if it hits, also infect

#

if i brace while sekhmet is active and have the metafold shunt, would that count as moving towards a hostile for purposes of actions it can take?

dusk arch
#

if something you voluntarily do would move you away from the nearest character, you can't take that movement

slim lodge
#

i see i see, good to know

so it can't metafold shunt right next to someone that's far away, since they're not the closest one?

dusk arch
#

unless that person is the closest other person to you

slim lodge
#

alright

round basalt
#

Is there an FAQ for suldan? I have a question that feels like it would be answered in an FAQ:

Efreet Synchronicity + Flight..

Does my ally suddenly just fly up with me if I fly? It says they mirror non teleportation but if I am a duskwing and have hovering flight..

Do they begin hovering before movement happens? (Wondering for terrain reasons and mines)

Do they fly with me?

If I end my turn and they are directly above an enemy, who takes damage and how much? 😆

#

I have a friend in a barbarossa who doesn't know he wants to be a projectile.. yet.

dusk arch
#

you cannot use knockback to knock someone without flying "up" into the air

#

nor can you use puppet systems to make them move in mid-air unless they have the ability to naturally do so

#

synchronicity doesn't override that any more than grapple's mirroring of movement does

#

lancer also does not have death from above damage regardless of how it arises, if a mech lands in a space occupied by another character that they can't overlap with, then all that happens is the falling character has to move into the nearest available free space

# 
diagonally, as long as the space isn’t occupied by an
obstruction (and is one that they would be able to
move in – characters can't move straight up unless
they can fly, for example).``` page 62 for reference
#

teleportation is sort of a weird case w/r/t "movement a character could be able to move in" because there's no such thing as a "can this mech teleport y/n" flag the way there is with flight, so if you're in charge of a grapple with somebody (controlling their movement) and you teleport, you can teleport them along

#

however in this particular case that doesn't really matter so much (and to be clear you also can't teleport people up into the air unless they could otherwise move into the air, based on the rules for teleporting)

round basalt
#

Oh thank you very much!!

#

further question on that:

dusk arch
#

Note that if you are flying or someone you are using synchronicity with is flying they will still mirror your movement to the best they can, they simply won't be able to follow any vertical movements etc

#

if you move two spaces north on the map, so will they

#

if you move two spaces up, they won't

round basalt
#

"movement they are capable of"

do they need a full on flying system like the Type-I Flight System

or is Rapid Burst Jump Jet System enough?

as in:

I can fly, I want to bring my barbarossa friend with me. does he need the flight system or is just having the capability to gain keyword fly at all enough for him to follow me?

dusk arch
#

yes, he needs to be able to actually fly

round basalt
#

so jump jets don't work even though

You may choose to count any and all of your movement as flying

dusk arch
#

just having "a flight system" is a thing that only applies for zero-g environments

round basalt
#

gotcha!

dusk arch
#

jump jets only work with the person using them is boosting and require you to land afterwards

round basalt
#

wait i just read you the wrong one LOL

#

sorry, it's late here.

#

I was reading the Type I

dusk arch
#

the only way for them to mirror flying movement is if they themselves are flying, such as with an actual flight system or the all-theater movement system core bonus

round basalt
#

nod

#

ty again for your time and sorry if these seemed like obvious questions 😄

slim lodge
#

let's say a nanobot whip is given a blanced mod and thus I can attack with 4 threat (3 base + 1 from mod per round)

I have full executioner, and my first hit is a crit

when making for the free action attack and the 3 kinetic damage to everyone within threat, is it threat 3 or 4?

ionic badger
#

Just 3

#

The extra reach only applies to the one attack you choose to trigger it on

slim lodge
#

does the jockey drone stack with the jockey talent?

dusk arch
#

yep

#

On a success, the drone latches onto their mech and begins jockeying the target, benefiting from your talents.

slim lodge
#

fuck yes

ionic badger
#

we have a Retiarus with Giant Killer and the Saboteur Drone in a game currently

#

they Breached one target, had the Drone jump to another low health enemy and used Damage to destroy that one too

dusk arch
#

working as intended

ionic badger
#

two destroyed enemies as a free action at turn start, pretty good 😛

ionic badger
dusk arch
#

less lethal

slim lodge
#

if, let's say, I dipped swallow an attacker. The initial Improv attack doesn't kill them, but they're knocked back off a ledge and is destroyed by the fall damage

does this count towards the module?

swift mesa
#

I'd lean towards no, as it's not a result of the attack.

dusk arch
#

correct

swift mesa
#

As otherwise you start getting into 'well, I pushed him into my friend's mine' and questions about second and third order 'causes of death'

dusk arch
#

If this destroys the attacker read "this" as "this improvised attack"

#

and as ikiryo notes a probably more common occurrence would be knocking them into a mine or something, but it has to be the punch or nothing

slim lodge
#

alright, makes sense, just checking

dusk arch
#

I mean you might still ultimately destroy them secondarily and that counts for something, namely one less enemy on the board, but you just don't get the full jackpot

slim lodge
#

ye

#

got the lemons but no 777

abstract lintel
#

I will say that my DM has ruled that if I cause them to melt down (like, full meltdown, not just Exposed) from the heat generated by the free Invade I get when I Dipping Swallow someone, that counts. It probably shouldn't, but he's very gracious.

dusk arch
abstract lintel
#

Why not?

dusk arch
#

because the invade the pesilat gets off of improvised attacks is a Free Action

#

free actions are only usable during your own turn, not other peoples'

#

and dipping swallow procs off a brace, which means it's most likely to happen during Not Your Turn

abstract lintel
#

Ah, well.....poop. I've been playing that mostly wrong.

#

I have done it on my turn before, response to Overwatch, but not usually.

dusk arch
#

yeah overwatch or reaction attacks could prompt a brace during your turn

jolly elm
#

I really like the idea of the Ibeji NHP but I can't decide quite how I want to use it. What are some ways that people have used it in the past?

dusk arch
#

two big ones that have come up a lot from direct playtesting:
1). Efreet/Ibeji and Sunzi stuff mixes very well
2). Ibeji Enkidu to create massive plasma talon reaction attack coverage

chilly plover
#

Could also use it to boost sensor coverage for hacking

jolly elm
#

I'm working on a Sunzi frame with Efreet systems. Having an extra me does give me more spaces available to teleport allies, but is it worth it if it's only 5 spaces away?

amber crystal
dusk arch
#

you can make an echo, run it downrange to do a thing, then just let it expire, while remaining elsewhere

amber crystal
#

Oh yeah, your Echo is literally just a walking Beacon for your Arts of War, as spaces adjacent to yourself/echo is valid target for any teleports.

#

It took me longer than I wanted to make that connection, wow, I gotta find a game to play Sunzi and Efreet in.

#

Oh, now I wonder, what happens if you use Synchronicity on an Orchis? Does the mirrored movement from the Bolster stack with Royal Guard?

#

So you'd end up breaking adjacency on movements eventually, lol

dusk arch
#

well if you use synchronicity on an orchis who is adjacent to you and then move, they're going to mirror your movement anyway

amber crystal
#

Yah, and they won't just move like, double your own movement while they're adjacent/within House Guard of you?

dusk arch
#

no, it doesn't create "double movement"

#

they're both "mirror your movement" effects

#

2x "move exactly as I do" is still moving exactly as I do

amber crystal
#

Alright, so kinda like Pirates and Ultra.

#

By the way, Kai, I can't stop putting Champion template on my Ultras. 😔 It's such a fun template to have on bosses.

dusk arch
#

glad it's working out, it had been a thing I wanted to get added to suldan for a while but it took some time for it to percolate through my brain into the form I wanted it

#

between that and the titan a lot of suldan NPC side stuff is "what can I do to make more memorable NPC setpieces"

amber crystal
#

Yeah, it's very nice. Small sharing of story I'm just busy painting the map in my current Suldan fight, with the team going against a Terraformer (Mountain's Remorse Tempest). After this mission is the mission with Miranda and ARASKA Prime, and I'm looking forward to that, with Miranda's using her leverage of the Key looking like a fun narrative moment for this Dune-esque champaign.

image.png
#

I had a Reaver up with their own aura somewhere in the mass before they got wrecked.

dusk arch
#

how have you found the reaver btw?

amber crystal
#

I like it a lot like an alternative to the Demolisher, like an near-immobile hold on the zones.

#

So it's been a fun HP sponge that encourage players to focus on it with their attacks once they have a reason to attack it.

#

I do kind of wonder about getting more reasons to deal with it if the players don't need to approach it.

#

But then again it's better than a Demolisher in that aspect with their better tech attack.

#

I do feel like in general I prefer faster defenders like the Gladiator.

#

Oh, the Gladiator is awesome, btw. Love its mobility and jerking people around as well as being semi-striker.

#

Definitely captured the gladiatorial fight feel.

ionic badger
#

I found Reavers pretty decent in terms of speed

#

especially since they can Boost and still attack

dusk arch
#

yeah the reaver has always had a sort of "point defender" vibe to it in terms of what it excels at

ionic badger
#

which is the main reason Demos get trolled so easily

dusk arch
#

I've made a few minor adjustments to a couple of their things just as a quality of life measure, like being able to move with focused dispersal now

amber crystal
#

True, that's what makes Reaver better than Demolisher for me.

#

OH yeah that's nice.

#

That was a fun way to use on chokepoints, which I was with this fight.

ionic badger
#

I used Reavers once and they did pretty well
but I also made them Elites, so that increased the regen value

amber crystal
#

Yeah, I also like how their durability scales with their template.

#

Unlike a Bastion, you know, an Elite is still gonna sturcture the same amount of turns.

dusk arch
#

I think at this point most of the NPCs and NPC-side stuff has been pretty thoroughly shaken down

amber crystal
#

Yah, they definitely feel quite refined for me personally.

#

As GM anyway.

dusk arch
#

the GMS weapons are the newest additions and the things I'll probably be poking around with if I get more feedback on them

amber crystal
#

Oh, funny story about an Ultra Valkyrie.

dusk arch
#

I know some people have expressed skepticism about things like the anti-armor missiles

amber crystal
#

My Iskander blew one up before it could even take a turn.

#

It structured 1st turn, rolls 1's on both Legendary.

#

My teammate went, and structured it with an IBEJI attack while it's stunned.

#

Rolled 1's on both legendary rolls again.

dusk arch
#

jesus

amber crystal
#

Then it failed the Hull Check to not be destroyed by 1, exactly the amount of negative Hull the Valkyrie has.

#

It was magical.

swift mesa
#

Just not his day

amber crystal
#

Oh yeah, he was also fittingly the comedic relief boss.

#

the whole time.

#

My character has a beef with him over music.

#

And cheap sound equipment.

swift mesa
#

I am 100% imaging the one time Big O fought a comic relief parody of Matzinger and the fight was shorter than the transformation sequence.

amber crystal
#

So it was worth blowing him up as soon as he showed up with his train beside our rocket train. (We were trying to break through a bridge on a train.)

#

The GM had him dramatically enter the scene with token movement

#

and dramatically had the token leave the same way three turns in the first round, after a 15 minutes self-introduction with his thugs.

#

It was so perfect, Kai, your design of Valkyrie's negative Hull made this possible.

dusk arch
#

NPCs deserve to eat shit imo

amber crystal
#

To be specific, he got Gravity Gun'd off the train, blown up by Demolitionist 3 Mines and got Shredded (Exotic Limited mines, I overcharged to use it twice for 7d6 damage), Stunned, Invaded, Sliced, and Destroyed.) My teammate didn't even have to get off our own train while the boss was off the train. He simply sent IBEJI out to get the dirty deeds done dirt cheap.

#

The Flight-type Nelson player probably was looking forward to an epic air to air duel, lmao.

quaint beacon
#

thinking about the Most Successful Reaver Ever, the elite veteran who ended a fight at full hp, structure, and stress

#

the players hated him so fucking much

amber crystal
#

I'm looking forward to eventually pulling an Ultra Reaver on the players.

#

I have 5 players so it's a 3 turn Ultra.

quaint beacon
#

long while back, I was playtesting some suldan npcs and one of the setpiece fights was an elite veteran reaver, flavored as a hydra (its buddies in the fight were all RPVs, indicating that they were his 'orochi drones')

it was a recon sitrep and he spent the entire fight bullying the shit out of the pcs, no one literally ever wanted to shoot him because he would heal it back and hurt them if they did, it was great

#

every point of damage they did to him he healed back, so I ended up reusing him for the final combat of that playtest mission where he finally died

amber crystal
#

Fun!

#

I'm gonna use the Champion and put the regen on an Ultra Spite.

#

I wonder how much the players will hate me for that.

#

The Orchis and Worden does have a way to inflict burn, so.

slim lodge
abstract lintel
#

It's so good

slim lodge
dusk arch
#

if it's off the improvised attack, yes

slim lodge
#

neat

somber garden
#

Question, NPC Nightmare Ephialtes Strain:
The target of this can clear the condition by attacking one of their allies at +1 accuracy OR by succeeding on a systems save with +1 difficulty as a quick action right?

wise loom
#

Actually, question

#

Will no-damage or ally-ignoring weapons like the Latch Drone, Veil Rifle, and Marathon Arc Bow count for clearing Ephialtes Strain?

dusk arch
# 
caught in its area of effect```
#

So in terms of "can you attack an ally with this to clear the effect," you cannot

dusk arch
somber garden
slim lodge
#

let's say i have a pesilat with ibeji

The real pesilat mlves and is reaction attacked, and so I brace. if the real pesilat is the one that triggers the swallow module, can my echo be the one that executes it?

#

or perhaps the real pesilat brace, but the effects of the swallow module is done by the echo?

dusk arch
#

you can execute it through the echo, but all the restrictions of dipping swallow apply...it still has to be directed against the triggering attacker, not just "whoever's in range" which means the echo will have to be close enough to carry it out, but if that's the case then yeah it works. If you fail to kill the triggering attacker then both your main mech and the echo are going to be negatively impacted by brace no matter which body did what, because you're operating out of a shared action pool

slim lodge
#

i see, alright

sudden lotus
#

Since Kallarani counts as invisible during the first round, if I have guerilla III and end my first turn in the first round without cover, do I still become automatically hidden?

somber garden
sudden lotus
#

Yea that’s what I was askin

dusk arch
#

It's not just "you can become hidden if you qualify for Hiding," it's specific to the talent itself

sudden lotus
#

Understood

slim lodge
#

so, if a mine is armed and I move an NPC adjacent to it via avalanche, do they blow up?

dusk arch
#

yeah

rotund axle
#

What does it mean when the Comet and Flight Nelson can only fly when the move or boost? Compared to just counting all movement as flying

#

Does it mean that all other movement that say "move" rather than "fly" can't be made?

dusk arch
#

it means they fly whenever they move basically, it is exactly the same as a flight system or ATMS, there's no secret meaning

# 
The Squad may fly whenever it moves or Boosts.```
rotund axle
#

Ah so it's just a different wording with the same effect?

dusk arch
#

yeah

rotund axle
#

Alright

#

Thanks chief

dusk arch
#

maybe I'll change the wording one of these days but broadly it just works like ATMS minus the heat cost, same restrictions etc

rotund axle
#

I see I see

ionic badger
dusk arch
#

the dusk wing still uses something similar, albeit even more condensed

#

"The Dusk Wing can hover when it moves."

south narwhal
#

I like Mount Retrofitting on the Pesilat.

# 
-- C&H PESILAT @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  IPS-N Blackbeard 1, SSC Metalmark 1, HORUS Goblin 1, C&H PESILAT 3
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Mount Retrofitting, Enhanced Systems Upgrade
[ TALENTS ]
  Duelist 3, Brawler 2, Hunter 2, PANKRATI 2
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:2 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:21 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:8 REPAIR:7
  TECH ATK:+4 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:5 EVA:10 EDEF:12 SENSE:5 SAVE:14
[ WEAPONS ]
  AUX/AUX MOUNT: Chain Axe / Tactical Knife // Mount Retrofitting
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Synthetic Muscle Netting, Reactive Weave, H0R_OS System Upgrade I, Dipping Swallow Module, Armament Redundancy, Personalizations, //serpent_FANG, //HEARTSHATTER V. 5.palm, Custom Paint Job
#

The core gameplay loop is Improvised Attack into Puppet Systems which causes Overwatch and allows me to attack, ram, and fly in their face to stab them.

abstract lintel
#

Oh damn. I feel like Puppet Systems must have changed, because I don't remember it triggering overwatch.

languid cosmos
#

Nah, it's pretty much always done that

ionic badger
#

It always did that yeah

abstract lintel
#

Maybe I've just been playing too much 5e

south narwhal
#

I just realized Worden's Mass Pack works on the Emperor's Marathon Arc.

gray thistle
#

Yep, and autopods too!

languid cosmos
#

An autopod that automatically refreshes lock on is very funny

gray thistle
#

"breadcrumb missile pod" 😌

languid cosmos
#

Counterfire suite mass pack autopod spottertail

#

Dude shoots your friend, you lock on and shred them. Your buddy pops them and you hit them for automatic damage

#

And then they're locked on again

south narwhal
#

Yep, I've made that as well.

#

Would OpCal be better than ESU?

lapis whale
#

Unhelpful: They kinda do different things
Personally, I always like feeling spicy with upgrades that are not OP Cal/Auto Stab

rotund axle
#

Counterfire Suite is great yeah

#

The struggle between picking CFS or Tac3 😔

languid cosmos
#

as someone who runs superheavies, cfs :p

slim lodge
south narwhal
#

If I replace Metalmark with Nelson, I can use the Knockback on the Improvised Attack, then Hunter Lunge at them because they still trigger overwatch.

#

But I like Reactive Weave too much.

slim lodge
#

it's good especially with the swallow module

#

btw, not sure how the conscript pairs work together. Do they have separate action pools each?

languid cosmos
#

Yes

#

They're two dumbasses who basically get to double up on an NPC turn because they're disposable grunts

slim lodge
#

neat

#

they don't share the same space, right? and don't have to be next to eachother?

#

so each conscript is 8 health? or is that split between the two?

broken hill
#

The only thing they share is turn slot and templates/options.

#

They each have their own health and actions.

slim lodge
#

i see i see

#

alright

broken hill
#

The health thing is also why it is discouraged to give them templates like RPV. That is a lot of extra health as they both get +5.

south narwhal
#

Made another Charioteer.

-- C&H CHARIOTEER @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  IPS-N Tortuga 3, C&H CHARIOTEER 3
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Overpower Caliber, All-Environment Adaptation
[ TALENTS ]
  Spotter 3, Vanguard 3, Combined Arms 2, HOUSE GUARD 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:2 SYS:0 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:19 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:7 REPAIR:4
  TECH ATK:+1 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:7 EVA:14 EDEF:8 SENSE:15 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  FLEX MOUNT: Deck-Sweeper Automatic Shotgun // Overpower Caliber
[ SYSTEMS ]
  HyperDense Armor, Variable Geometry Hull, Glide Rollers, Armament Redundancy, Personalizations, Custom Paint Job
south narwhal
#

I like this better.

-- C&H CHARIOTEER @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  IPS-N Tortuga 3, C&H CHARIOTEER 2, HORUS Goblin 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Overpower Caliber, Improved Armament
[ TALENTS ]
  Spotter 3, Vanguard 3, Combined Arms 2, HOUSE GUARD 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:2 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:19 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:7 REPAIR:4
  TECH ATK:+3 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:6 EVA:12 EDEF:10 SENSE:15 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  FLEX MOUNT: Deck-Sweeper Automatic Shotgun
  FLEX MOUNT: Autopod // Overpower Caliber
[ SYSTEMS ]
  HyperDense Armor, Armament Redundancy, Personalizations, Bomblet Dispenser, H0R_OS System Upgrade I, Rapid Burst Jump Jet System
south narwhal
#

This is incredibly stupid.

-- C&H CHARIOTEER @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  IPS-N ZHENG 3, C&H CHARIOTEER 2, IPS-N Nelson 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Superheavy Mounting, Overpower Caliber
[ TALENTS ]
  Executioner 3, Nuclear Cavalier 2, Ace 2, PANKRATI 2
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:0 ENGI:4
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:19 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:9 REPAIR:4
  TECH ATK:+1 LIMITED:+2
  SPD:6 EVA:12 EDEF:8 SENSE:15 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  SUPERHEAVY MOUNT: D/D 288 // Overpower Caliber
  FLEX MOUNT: SUPERHEAVY WEAPON BRACING
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Armament Redundancy, Personalizations, Rapid Burst Jump Jet System, Deployable Reconnaissance Carbine, Type-3 Projected Shield, Bulwark Mods, TOTAL STRENGTH SUITE I, TOTAL STRENGTH SUITE I
dusk arch
#

So I'm thinking about adjusting the Crash Bars core bonus some more. The version that's currently in use is:
You may reroll structure damage checks, but must keep the second result even if it's worse.
I'm considering reworking it to function more like the NPC Legendary trait, which would be
You roll all structure damage checks twice and choose either result.
I sometimes get people asking if there's a thing they can take for a spin for feedback purposes, so I'd be interested in getting some feedback from either version of Crash Bars so I can start dialing this in. I'm also looking to get some feedback on some of the added GMS weapons, in particular the Anti-Armor Missile Launcher and Anti-Cavalry Melee Weapon

slim lodge
#

secondary damage on the titan only activates once, right?

#

also, due to the nature of Titan, it can't be moved via the mirage's glitch scanners?

dusk arch
dusk arch
#

and any other similar effects that don't specify teleportation

slim lodge
#

thinking of some mirage and titan shenanigans

dusk arch
#

this is the cornerstone of the demolisher/mirage combo

slim lodge
#

if there are people on the titan via its carrying system, are they teleported as well?

dusk arch
#

yes, they move when the titan does per the trait's wording

south narwhal
#

I love the Charioteer.

-- C&H CHARIOTEER @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  IPS-N Blackbeard 1, C&H CHARIOTEER 2, C&H SABREUR 2, IPS-N Tortuga 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Overpower Caliber, Kangto Endochassis
[ TALENTS ]
  Duelist 3, Nuclear Cavalier 2, SPACEBORN 2, PANKRATI 2
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:2 SYS:0 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:19 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:7 REPAIR:4
  TECH ATK:+1 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:7 EVA:14 EDEF:8 SENSE:15 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  FLEX MOUNT: Smartblade // Overpower Caliber
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Synthetic Muscle Netting, Siege Ram, Deployable Reconnaissance Carbine, Type-I Flight System, Personalizations, Armament Redundancy

-- GMS KANGTO @ LL6 --
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:2 SYS:0 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:19 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:7 REPAIR:4
  TECH ATK:0 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:5 EVA:10 EDEF:8 SENSE:8 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  FLEX MOUNT: Smartblade // Overpower Caliber
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Synthetic Muscle Netting, Type-I Flight System, Personalizations, Armament Redundancy
#

It inherits Forward Observation Suite.

round basalt
# jolly elm I really like the idea of the Ibeji NHP but I can't decide quite how I want to u...

I'm using it on a glass cannon duskwing for hall of mirrors shenanigans and it's amazing so far.

2 big boons:

  • if one of you is engaged the other can still drop clones
  • you can shoot yourself with slipgun while in melee causing a potential 2+ rearrangement of the battlefield, dropping clones on top of that, if you're running mimic mesh too and an ally is there you have just done a hostile action against an ally and get ANOTHER move, dropping more clones, moving your ally and yourself out of clonesplosion then blowing up the 2+ clones that just dropped while moving enemies INTO clonesplosion and also slipgun does a bit of damage too so that's nice.
slim lodge
#

Finally LL2!

gonna take it for a ride

Lancer_BLOOD_PINK_DEMON.png
#

also, I tried to have some fun with the Step Into the Ring since my org is also a martial arts company, and I also have 2 in apply fists to faces. I was so fucking ready

of course...

south narwhal
#

Will there be an updated Suldan PDF with all the new frames, GMS weapons, etc?

rotund axle
#

This shit fucks btw

#

Hella baller

dusk arch
south narwhal
#

2.2.2.

dusk arch
#

then you are three versions behind

south narwhal
#

Fuck.

#

Why didn't itch alert me?

dusk arch
#

dunno, it's been up for a while

#

2.2.5 went up in May

main plinth
#

Man, i got an nhp buddy who doesn't wanna be treated like software so me and the gm talked

#

He's got a subaltern manning my Worden turret mount

nova slate
#

thats actualyl very fun i like that

main plinth
#

Yeh, the casket is plugged into the mech but not attached electronically

nova slate
#

as far as play goes, can the subaltern be a target still and effectively get destroyed and shut down the turret?

main plinth
#

Yeah, it's statted as a human NPC with 1 armor, and can be hacked for energy damage instead of heat

ember tiger
#

hey is the uh

#

is the pdf supposed to look like that?

viral wave
#

Like what?

ember tiger
#

or is like

#

that one not out ye-

#

wait is this a playtest version?

viral wave
#

Yeah it's a long playtest

ember tiger
#

ah

dusk arch
#

I'm also not laying out nearly 300 pages of this shit

slim lodge
#

is sovereign shielding 1/round?

dusk arch
#

no

#

it's recharge 6 which means you have to check during each turn if it comes back after you've used it, titans with multiple activations could in theory regain and use it multiple times if you roll well

slim lodge
#

that or when the half HP/structure thing pops up, right?

dusk arch
#

that automatically recharges it, yes

slim lodge
#

with the lance line weapon on the titan, if someone hides behind an object and they get shot by it, does the object get destroyed then they roll for the attack on the character? Or would they still have hard cover?

dusk arch
#

line weapons in general (and AoE attacks in general) work by rolling all to-hit rolls first, then applying damage, so there's no way to selectively do damage to a chunk of terrain, then jump back to making attack rolls to hit a now cover-less character

#

the termite's laser drill has a special clause which boils down to "as soon as you declare your attack with this weapon, all terrain in this area automatically takes damage" in order to allow that sort of thing to work, but the spinal lance just follows the normal rules

slim lodge
#

The Titan ignores difficult terrain, cannot be knocked back or Prone by characters smaller than itself, and can freely occupy spaces containing other characters. Whenever the Titan moves into a space occupied by an enemy for the first time on its turn, that enemy must pass an Agility save or take 4 kinetic damage and be knocked Prone.

so if the mech steps on multiple PC to multiple enemies since it's so large, does it choose on who gets hurt?

dusk arch
#

no, all hostile characters get affected, but "the first time on a turn" thing is the same sort of language the Cataphract uses with trample to make it clear that this doesn't get procced multiple times for the same character if the titan overlaps their space, then moves again in a way that overlaps them a second time, etc

#

you can't move back and forth over one person to force them to take the save multiple times in a turn, if you move over 3 hostile characters then they all have to pass the save

slim lodge
#

i see, alright

slim lodge
dusk arch
#

and the save is forced the first time the overlap occurs in that turn, you can't bank it

slim lodge
dusk arch
#

yes

#

think of it as "the first time a hostile character gets stepped on in a turn, they have to make this save"

#

whether it comes from the titan's standard move, a boost it takes, whatever

slim lodge
#

i see, alright

#

man

#

do i have funny things planned for that titan

#

titan says that it only can''t be knocked back or prone by smaller characters

does that mean it can be puppet hacked to move?

dusk arch
#

no

#

the only thing that gets by heavy frame and similar abilities is teleportation

slim lodge
#

alright, noted

south narwhal
# 
-- C&H CHARIOTEER @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  IPS-N Drake 3, SSC Death’s Head 1, C&H CHARIOTEER 2
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Auto-Stabilizing Hardpoints, Superheavy Mounting
[ TALENTS ]
  HOUSE GUARD 3, Combined Arms 2, Nuclear Cavalier 2, Tactician 2
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:2 SYS:0 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:19 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:7 REPAIR:4
  TECH ATK:+1 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:7 EVA:14 EDEF:8 SENSE:15 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  SUPERHEAVY MOUNT: Leviathan Heavy Assault Cannon // Auto-Stabilizing Hardpoints
  FLEX MOUNT: SUPERHEAVY WEAPON BRACING
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Argonaut Shield, High-Stress Mag Clamps, Deployable Reconnaissance Carbine, Bomblet Dispenser, Personalizations, Armament Redundancy, Aegis Shield Generator x2
slim lodge
#

that gun weighs more than the fucking mech, good lord

do it

nova slate
#

flavor, its using the AC as a form of propulsion as well as attack

rotund axle
#

What kinda Jetpack Joyride-

slim lodge
nova slate
#

lol

south narwhal
# 
-- SSC REAPER DART @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  SSC Death’s Head 3, HORUS Balor 2, SSC Black Witch 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Auto-Stabilizing Hardpoints, Universal Compatibility
[ TALENTS ]
  Crack Shot 3, Spotter 3, Heavy Gunner 3
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:2 SYS:0 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:21 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:7 REPAIR:5
  TECH ATK:0 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:6 EVA:10 EDEF:8 SENSE:20 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  MAIN/AUX MOUNT: Assault Rifle / MC-LMG Light Machine Gun
  HEAVY MOUNT: Railgun (Nanocomposite Adaptation) // Auto-Stabilizing Hardpoints
[ SYSTEMS ]
  High-Stress Mag Clamps, Ferrous Lash, Personalizations, Armament Redundancy, Kinetic Compensator
south narwhal
#

The LCP is glitched. The Seeker Catapult, like the Mimic Gun, should include both Rifle and Nexus talents as triple diamonds on the bottom, but it has neither.

dusk arch
south narwhal
#

So is the mimic gun hard coded?

dusk arch
#

It might be, I know I'm not the only homebrewer with multi-type weapons who has this issue

#

I believe it doesn't give you the official dual typing for the Viceroy either, or it didn't last time the lcp was in development

opaque crane
#

IIRC, they are working on a solution for that.

dusk arch
#

Yeah

#

I could do a thing where I give the multi type weapons one type and add a note saying "this also counts as X" but that feels like the same amount of added bookkeeping

quick aurora
slim lodge
dusk arch
#

I'm not aware that objects can be knocked prone tbh

slim lodge
#

as in, the character i grappled

#

if i use them as a bludgeon against a rock, do they still have to roll a hull save at the end?

dusk arch
#

yes because it says both characters have to pass the save

#

that's just a quality of using the ability

slim lodge
#

huh, so a simple play is to just grapple someone for +1d6 pesilat damage, then bludgeon them against a rock

#

neat

dusk arch
#

if you want to sure, it's basically taking the long way around to doing what you could do with just ramming them, but you can do it if you want

slim lodge
#

it's less ramming them and more of getting the damage in, since the 1d6 is only once per round, and ram/grapple deal no damage by themselves

south narwhal
#

If you add bonus damage to something that doesn't deal damage, it defaults to kinetic.

#

So a Pesilat ram deals 1d6.

slim lodge
#

once

south narwhal
#

So does an Atlas ram. Once.

slim lodge
#

which is why grapple (1d6) + falling star (1d6 + size) is more damage than ram (1d6) + grapple (0)

south narwhal
#

This is why I like mount retrofitting and duelist on Pesilat.

slim lodge
#

i plan to take brawler and nuccav for my early investments, with the enhanced systems for more options

#

retrofit mount won't be a bad idea once I get to ll 6

slim lodge
#

Pesilat description: martial arts techniques, precise and deadly, systems and melee combined

pesilat in play: fucking PILEDRIVE this fool

#

swing him against the rock since the rock can't dodge (proceeds to miss anyway)

hasty pulsar
#

oh, whoops, someone else said that already, apologies

slim lodge
#

titan walks

image.png
rotund axle
#

That

#

Sure as hell is a Titan

slim lodge
#

so huge

#

that rifle is as big as a building

broken hill
#

Gotta fly a manticore down the barrel while patriotic music plays.

slim lodge
wise loom
#

for the carrier, does it need to grab an ally to use Rapid Deployment?

dusk arch
#

yes

south narwhal
#

I literally dreamed about a Mourning Cloak with Superheavy Mounting and Kangto Endochassis.

rotund axle
#

Welp, time to turn that dream into a reality

#

Tbh not even a bad build by any means

south narwhal
#

It had a D/D 288.

rotund axle
#

Ok so maybe somewhat bad lmao

south narwhal
#

Yeah. A TCB would probably be better.

rotund axle
#

Kangto is a good pick for MC though

#

Steal its Hunter Trait with a Sheavy weapon and bam you're good to go

ionic badger
#

Tempest MC is legit

rotund axle
#

Tbh I should make this

#

Thanks for the idea lmao

south narwhal
#

I like to imagine the sword is exactly the same on the Endochassis.

# 
-- SSC Mourning Cloak @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  SSC Mourning Cloak 2, IPS-N Nelson 1, IPS-N ZHENG 1, HORUS KOBOLD 2
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Kangto Endochassis, Superheavy Mounting
[ TALENTS ]
  Engineer 3, Executioner 3, Duelist 3
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:2 SYS:0 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:21 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:6 REPAIR:5
  TECH ATK:0 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:6 EVA:14 EDEF:6 SENSE:15 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  Integrated: Prototype Weapon III
  SUPERHEAVY MOUNT: Tempest Charged Blade
  FLEX MOUNT: SUPERHEAVY WEAPON BRACING
  MAIN/AUX MOUNT: War Pike / Fold Knife
[ SYSTEMS ]
  TOTAL STRENGTH SUITE I, SEISMIC RIPPER, Personalizations, Armament Redundancy, Bulwark Mods, TOTAL STRENGTH SUITE I, Rapid Burst Jump Jet System

-- GMS KANGTO @ LL6 --
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:2 SYS:0 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:19 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:7 REPAIR:4
  TECH ATK:0 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:5 EVA:10 EDEF:8 SENSE:8 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  Integrated: Prototype Weapon III
  SUPERHEAVY MOUNT: Tempest Charged Blade
  FLEX MOUNT: SUPERHEAVY WEAPON BRACING
[ SYSTEMS ]
  TOTAL STRENGTH SUITE I, TOTAL STRENGTH SUITE I, SEISMIC RIPPER, Bulwark Mods, Personalizations, Armament Redundancy
broken hill
#

Even if Kangto isn't super optimal play I do appreciate how much pure YOLO power it gives. Lets you do stupid and funny plays way more often when you have a spare frame hidden away

south narwhal
#

The Mourning Cloak is 18 feet tall, with a blade just as long. When it's destroyed, the Kangto punches its way out and grabs the now way too big sword.

somber garden
#

My Lancer group had a discussion about Lich Kangto builds. Kangto is so cool!

nova slate
#

kangto fits lovingly well onto fragile or all in frames

#

toku, liminal space's morgana

slim lodge
#

kangto is so funny when the mech is size half

the atlas is destroyed, but ibstead of falling apart it justs, sheds skin like a sbake to reveal an even slimmer mech within.

#

Atlas destroyed, it sheds off its armor to reveal a kangto

Kangto destroyed, the pilot pops out in full madrigal set

shut grotto
#

When the Barbarossa is destroyed but the Kangto pulls a chestburster.

nova slate
#

Combo with liminal space and Rasputin

#

Nesting doll

broken hill
#

Kangto out of half size mechs makes me just imagine the pilot shouting "this isn't even my final form" and then nothing changes other than the damage magically vanishing.

shut grotto
#

Seems like Kangto is The Final Shape.

nova slate
#

well, the final shape is just the pilot Yamcha'd out waiting for a corrective

hasty pulsar
nova slate
#

kangto magical girl transformation

slim lodge
#

for scrounger, if the weapon is tier 2 and can attack multiples (eg tier 2 raptor rifle) then the ally can also attack multiples with it, right?

dusk arch
#

yes, and then it breaks

slim lodge
#

neat

vapid hound
#

For Worden's Sustained Counterfire trigger: A hostile character hits an allied character within Sensors with an attack.

You need Los on both the hostile and your ally correct?
Additionally, since the effect applies Lock On instead of having you take the quick tech, it doesn't care if the hostile is outside of you sensor range right?

rotund axle
#

1: yeah, everything requires LoS unless specified
2: I mean, technically the lock-on doesn't require Sensors, but the reaction to trigger it does

#

Oh you mean the triggering hostile character

#

Yeah I think so

#

It just applies Lock On, no ifs or buts

vapid hound
#

I figured it would require Los to both, as you said everything requires unless specified, but wanted to double check. Thank you!

rotund axle
#

Oh on that part I'm actually not sure

#

I think you need LoS to both but we need Kai for any further confirmation

#

I'm confident the triggering hostile doesn't need to be in Sensors though

vapid hound
#

Yea based on the wording Sensors only matter for allies. But LoS matters for both from my understanding .

dusk arch
#

so the actual rule per the book is Characters can only attack or take action against targets that they can see, at least partially.

#

you have to have LoS to someone to take action against them

#

as far as I'm aware, some trigger condition like "an ally gets attacked" does not fall into this category unless you are also targeting that ally with the followup part of the reaction, if someone has a cite to something otherwise I'd appreciate it

#

you 100% need LoS to the triggering character in order to hit them with the effect of counterfire suite, yes

#

you do not need them to be in sensor range to apply the lock on to them, lock on is a thing that can be applied outside the confines of the Lock On Tech Action

#

you can apply lock on to targets using the kidd's blackspot laser, doesn't need sensors

rotund axle
#

So the allied character needs to be in Sensors but not LoS while the hostile character needs to be in LoS but not Sensors correct?

dusk arch
#

it's the same thing here, the reaction is "that guy gets lock on"

#

and yes, the hostile character does not need to be in sensors for this

#

counterfire suite turns your own sensor range into an umbrella for allies as you dare someone to shoot them so you can trace the attack back to its source

vapid hound
#

Taking a look through the systems and talents I think I found one that mentions two characters in their ability, but seem to only care about having LoS to one for their trigger. That being Bonded 3 Cover Me:
If a character within your line of sight attempts to attack your Bond mate, you can spend your Overwatch to threaten the attacker, forcing them to either choose a different target or attack anyway...
Based on the previous interpretation it doesn't matter if you can see your Bond mate or not. It only matters if you can see their attacker.

slim lodge
#

for bomblet dispensers, does the space moved through count also the space you started at?

granite junco
#

since they count as one would it be reasonable/by design to target a conscript as a collective with a sergeant's five rounds rapid?
that is, if I have a sergeant and a bunch of conscripts and I use FRR should I make five skirmishes (two conscript units each consisting of two chassis) or three skirmishes (targeting conscript bodies individually).

dusk arch
granite junco
#

alright, makes sense just wanted to double check

dusk arch
#

so for the purpose of five rounds rapid the sergeant could choose one or two actual conscripts to participate, not one or two pairs

granite junco
#

alrighty! Thank you for the clarification.

bleak robin
#

Something I wanted to say. I just realized the Efreet lightning bolt is doing the off screen shift. That's such a cool detail!

dusk arch
#

which just to clarify is actually the qublade

swift mesa
#

Efreet attempting to escape off the map in a breakthrough, accidentally finds itself back in deployment

slim lodge
#

thinking about a Napoleon with the pesilat and efreet licenses

just brace, reduce damage to 1, and beat whoever just fired on you

rotund axle
#

Has the heatcap to survive 2 braces at the very least

#

(Remember, that's 4 Heat per use)

slim lodge
#

yep

#

that's why my future pesilat is going to have a minimum of 8 heat, that and nuclear cavalier for some quick clears

rotund axle
#

Nice

south narwhal
#

Wouldn't Metalmark be easier and cost less heat?

# 
-- HA Napoleon @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  SSC Metalmark 1, HA Napoleon 2, C&H PESILAT 3
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Overpower Caliber, Kangto Endochassis
[ TALENTS ]
  Brawler 3, Duelist 3, Hunter 3
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:2 SYS:0 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:19 ARMOR:2
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:10 REPAIR:5
  TECH ATK:0 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:5 EVA:10 EDEF:8 SENSE:5 SAVE:14
[ WEAPONS ]
  MAIN/AUX MOUNT: Charged Blade / Tactical Knife // Overpower Caliber
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Dipping Swallow Module, Armament Redundancy, Personalizations, Reactive Weave, Stasis Generator, Flash Charges x3, Stasis Bolt
# 
-- GMS KANGTO @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  SSC Metalmark 1, HA Napoleon 2, C&H PESILAT 3
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Overpower Caliber, Kangto Endochassis
[ TALENTS ]
  Brawler 3, Duelist 3, Hunter 3
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:2 SYS:0 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:19 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:7 REPAIR:4
  TECH ATK:0 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:5 EVA:10 EDEF:8 SENSE:8 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  FLEX MOUNT: Charged Blade // Overpower Caliber
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Dipping Swallow Module, Reactive Weave, Personalizations, Armament Redundancy, Stasis Bolt, Custom Paint Job
broken hill
#

Reactive weave is just your speed, metafold shunt is "teleport adjacent"

wise loom
#

Basically "nothing personnel kid"

broken hill
#

But Pesilat also gets a lot of juice from the efreet invades. Nail someone with Interpolate and now you have the ability to infinite range melee/invade as long as you can maintain line of sight.

wise loom
#

Non-core IAs don't have threat

broken hill
#

Interpolate doesn't care about threat, it simply says "as though they are within range"

wise loom
#

Huh

#

Must be a recent change

#

It used to say "within threat of your melee weapons."

#

Ok

#

That was actually a very old change

broken hill
#

I think that change was specifically to allow non-threatening melee like Rams and IA to be used with it.

wise loom
#

Yeah

broken hill
#

As even on Efreet losing rams from blade master dice would feel bad.

wise loom
#

It does mean that you can't create an interpolated overwatch anymore

broken hill
#

I think it was always "during your turn" anyway

wise loom
#

Yes, but there are ways to trigger Overwatch on your turn

slim lodge
broken hill
#

How to fight a barrage: teleport into punching range.

slim lodge
#

sentry grenades only detonate once, right?

dusk arch
#

correct

nova slate
#

oh question regarding the conscript, what kind of action is panic fire?

ionic badger
#

it's a Full Action

nova slate
#

ok cool ty

#

for some reason i couldnt find the tag in comp/con or foundry last night so i just ran it as a full action on a vague recollection

final forum
#

My partner has been descriptions of all the mechs I'm allowing

Screenshot_20230907-092452.png Screenshot_20230907-092507.png Screenshot_20230907-092525.png Screenshot_20230907-092538.png
broken hill
#

While in license comet has no drones it does make a hell of a drone commander too with its decent sensors and good sight lines, plus being funny to build out enough reactions to do one every turn.

final forum
#

Oh for sure

final forum
dire wasp
#

Is it alright to ask advice for a build that makes heavy use of Suldan material here? Not exclusively Suldan, but still.

viral wave
#

Go for it

dire wasp
#

-- IPS-N NELSON FLIGHT TYPE @ LL6 -- [ LICENSES ] IPS-N Nelson 2, DOWNFALL WRATH 1, C&H SABREUR 3 [ CORE BONUSES ] Overpower Caliber, Kangto Endochassis [ TALENTS ] Hunter 3, Nuclear Cavalier 2, Duelist 2, Ace 1, REACTOR CRIMINAL 1 [ STATS ] HULL:2 AGI:4 SYS:0 ENGI:2 STRUCTURE:4 HP:17 ARMOR:0 STRESS:4 HEATCAP:8 REPAIR:5 TECH ATK:0 LIMITED:+1 SPD:8 EVA:16 EDEF:7 SENSE:5 SAVE:13 [ WEAPONS ] FLEX MOUNT: Tactical Knife / Tactical Knife MAIN/AUX MOUNT: War Pike (Thermal Charge) / Peregrine Seeker Glaive // Overpower Caliber [ SYSTEMS ] Personalizations, Armor-Lock Plating, CHESS System, Shield Array Drone

-- GMS KANGTO @ LL6 -- [ LICENSES ] IPS-N Nelson 2, DOWNFALL WRATH 1, C&H SABREUR 3 [ CORE BONUSES ] Overpower Caliber, Kangto Endochassis [ TALENTS ] Hunter 3, Nuclear Cavalier 2, Duelist 2, Ace 1, REACTOR CRIMINAL 1 [ STATS ] HULL:2 AGI:4 SYS:0 ENGI:2 STRUCTURE:4 HP:13 ARMOR:0 STRESS:4 HEATCAP:7 REPAIR:3 TECH ATK:0 LIMITED:+1 SPD:6 EVA:12 EDEF:8 SENSE:8 SAVE:13 [ WEAPONS ] FLEX MOUNT: Peregrine Seeker Glaive / Peregrine Seeker Glaive // Overpower Caliber [ SYSTEMS ] CHESS System, ARTEMIS-Class NHP

For Refrence on non-Suldan 3PP stuff I'm using:

The Chess System lets you adjust your heat between +2 to -2 heat each turn passively.
Reactor Criminal 1 lets you set a Self-Destruct to go off at the end of your turn.

The entire thing is meant to come together as a Vaguely Phoenix-shaped Nelson, and the Kangto offers just the perfect way to let it self-destruct in an enemies face then get back up to keep fighting with its style mostly intact.

I've been trying to decide if I should slap something like a Smartblade or something on the other flex slot on the Nelson or not, but am otherwise just looking for general advice.

#

With Reactor Criminal, its unashamed to just fly into a group of enemies, set self-destruct and eject in the Kangto before any of them can move if it needs to.

#

(I've also considered dropping Op Cal for Emergency Reactor Override and just riding the heat train till the reactor blows that way)

dire wasp
#

After thinking about it extensively, I think swapping the Two Glaives for a Smartblade on the Kangto might be the right call. It also lets me grab Armor-Lock Plating and Armament Redundancy, to keep the Kangto effective as long as possible.

south narwhal
# 
-- C&H KALLARANI @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  IPS-N Raleigh 2, SSC Mourning Cloak 1, C&H KALLARANI 2, C&H TALWAR 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Integrated Weapon, Auto-Stabilizing Hardpoints
[ TALENTS ]
  Gunslinger 3, Skirmisher 2, Stormbringer 2, Vanguard 2
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:0 ENGI:4
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:21 ARMOR:1
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:10 REPAIR:6
  TECH ATK:+1 LIMITED:+2
  SPD:4 EVA:8 EDEF:10 SENSE:8 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  Integrated: Typhoon Airburst Projector
  INTEGRATED WEAPON: Vijaya Rockets
  FLEX MOUNT: Sirocco Machine Pistol / Sirocco Machine Pistol
  FLEX MOUNT: Sirocco Machine Pistol / Sirocco Machine Pistol
  HEAVY MOUNT: Bolt Thrower // Auto-Stabilizing Hardpoints
[ SYSTEMS ]
  “Roland” Chamber, Personalizations, Armament Redundancy, Rapid Burst Jump Jet System, Custom Paint Job
#

Basically, it wants to alternate between barrage, and overcharge skirmish stabilize.

south narwhal
#

It has enough heat to do that.

#

It should probably have Nuclear Cavalier rather than Skirmisher.

final forum
#

Just realizing how good Agrippa 1 is on a raleigh/stortebeker build is

granite radish
#

Oh?

final forum
#

...why did the first image not send.

final forum
#

Slap a knockback cone 5 threat 3 weapon onto a raleigh that benefits from all its loading stuff

granite radish
#

nice

drowsy coyote
#

Should check out the loading heavy shotgun from liminal space

#

It’s generally not good to cross homebrew but I put both on a Raleigh and had a jolly good time

round basalt
#

What is the timing on Dervish Cadence.

If you're between 2 enemies when you start the DC, two of them get reaction shots. Assuming both will miss, do you..

a) Resolve both shots simultaneously, you get one instance of DC after a miss.

b) Resolve one shot, proc DC and move 2, ??? to the 2nd shot depending on if its in range or not.. ??? proc another DC?

round basalt
#

^ I think I figured this out using Reactive Weave in general rule questions.

I thiiink:

Crit happens, activate DC
First Move 2, All threats triggered
Resolve first attack
If it misses you can DC again before next attack
2nd Move 2, All threats triggered again
Resolve the threat attacks from first Move if still in range
Possibly DC again
Resolve all threat attacks from 2nd Move if still in range

dusk arch
#

Essentially, in Lancer there's no way for things to resolve "simultaneously," everything has to resolve in some sort of one-after-the-other order

#

if you destroy two enemies using an AoE attack, for example, they don't both die "at the same time," one gets killed first, then the other

#

so with dervish cadence, you do essentially have to resolve one procced reaction after another, checking to see if Dervish Cadence kicks in each time

round basalt
#

nodnod

slim lodge
#

for the matador core power, does "Any character" also include yourself?

#

also, for the purposes of spotter, does Remote Targeting Relay activate the health scan?

slim lodge
#

also, for house guard on a matador. If an enemy tech attacks an ally but I instead take it from them, does it activate House Guard 3?

dusk arch
#

1). yes
2). yes
3). I believe the answer is yes as it's the same as if you used camus' razor from the White Witch to divert attacks from an ally to yourself

slim lodge
#

Cool

slim lodge
#

does slip gun work with walking armory?

dusk arch
#

no, I'm not sure I see a clear way for walking armory to be compatible with the "used as an attack, technically a save" nature of the weapon

slim lodge
#

alright, making sure

dusk arch
#

TECHNICALLY the weapon can make use of talents but most of the walking armory options seem weirdly incompatible with saves, like I don't know of giving a weapon that doesn't do an attack/to-hit roll Knockback 1 does anything if all the weapon does is force a save, for example

#

I guess you could arguably use it to change the damage types, and that would be a big maybe, but the effect of Shock doesn't work (there's no hit or miss), Hellfire almost certainly is never going to come up, Jager doesn't work (again, no hits), and I'm skeptical Sabot would apply AP to the save either

#

I think for the purpose of simplicity I'm going to go with "this talent doesn't work with this particular weapon because it's a weird one"

slim lodge
#

ECM says burst 2. Does the cloud stay in the location when I move away, or does it follow me?

dusk arch
#

the exception as far as I understand is things like the genghis core power which create "an affected area"

#

i.e. the genghis core creates an area of burning matter as a burst around you but it doesn't move with you, however hardlight shields, enclave shields, temblor pulse-fields, etc, all that moves, and the ECM launchers do as well

slim lodge
#

neat

drowsy coyote
#

So, it’s generally agreed upon that sekhmet doesn’t have to move adjacent to its target if it has threat to it. Is this also true for the gladiator weapon toss?

Also with down and not out, can you charge the enemy that structured you or it doesn’t work if someone is closer?

dusk arch
# 
NHP uses all actions to move as directly as possible to
the next closest (visible) target.```
drowsy coyote
#

True, yeah that makes sense

dusk arch
#

As for Gladiator, i.e. if you would stop moving outside of threat but have your special move available, in the same vein as Sekhmet not obliging you to use core power, overcharge, etc, I will say that Sekhmet does not oblige you to use your special move, but if you do so then it has to abide by sekhmet's directives

#

that is, you aren't forced to spend gladiator to throw your sword at the nearest target, but if you DO use the move, have the sword throw range only, then you would have to commit

drowsy coyote
#

Makes sense

dusk arch
#

if you could use gladiator and hit them normally, or use the +2 threat thing, you're allowed to choose which you want

drowsy coyote
#

Thanks Kai

dusk arch
#

and at rank 2, if you're referring to the option that says:

-Move up to your speed towards a hostile character, ignoring engagement and reactions, and make an attack against them...```
Then if sekhmet is active you have to abide by those restrictions as usual
#

even without sekhmet in the mix, this option doesn't oblige you to charge the person who attacked you

#

but if sekhmet IS active then all your movement is accounted for

drowsy coyote
#

I was yeah, and I misremembered I thought it did

#

Side not, as long a I remain adjacent to a character I can dance around it right? Say with skirmisher 2

dusk arch
#

I'm a little unclear on that one, I think some people allow stuff like that, though I can see an argument for disallowing it due to possibly trying to do some edge case "rotate around someone so I can get adjacent to two people at once and choose which one I can hit" stuff

drowsy coyote
#

Makes sense, so table discretion

broken hill
#

I tend to say sekhmet doesn't rotate because it requires you to move towards the closest visible target and rotation doesn't get you closer.

dusk arch
#

yeah that's kind of how I see it

granite radish
#

is it just me

#

or would a LL6 build

#

with kangto chassis & universal compatibility for core bonuses be fun

#

idea would be using LLs to pick up desired frame for kangto's inheritance trait + weapons + systems

rotund axle
#

Seems pretty fun on something like a Gajasura

broken hill
#

Just noticed on the Remote Targeting Relay that it is a Hull Save to remove it. As it is an ongoing effect done on their turn was this intended to be a Check?

dusk arch
broken hill
#

Yeah, there are examples on both sides, just more checks than saves which is why I was checking.

viral sinew
#

Huh did something happen to the anti cavalry spike? Noticed it's not in compcon anymore

dusk arch
#

if it isn't showing up I'd make sure your lcp file is current

viral sinew
#

I even updated it just to see if that'd fix it

dusk arch
#

yep, you're a version behind

#

current version is 2.2.5

viral sinew
#

Huh weird I have no idea how that happened, like I've obviously had a a version that had them since my mech had iit

dusk arch
swift mesa
#

Cat!

dusk arch
#

For people who've been wondering "hey when is the Chimera gonna get some art"

rotund axle
#

Nice

dusk arch
#

I'm undecided which color scheme I want to go with as the original plan wasn't to just completely ape the xenomorph, but the dark scheme was apparently a layer mode accident that turned out looking nice so I decided to go ahead and ask for both

main plinth
#

I will say I prefer the darker one myself but that owes to the fact I have weird colorblindness and the yellow is just a single yellow blob with no other shades to my cursed eyeballs.

dusk arch
#

the visual inspo for the broze version was a mix of this and some Vex from Destiny

FmRkqBLXgAACX5a.jpg
swift mesa
#

I personally prefer the yellow because the darker one sorta mostly just goes 'I am a xenomorph' to me, though I can 100% understand the appeal to those who do like the darker one.

rotund axle
dusk arch
#

@ashen parrot @nova slate I remember you asking about chimera art

nova slate
#

Eyyyy that's sick

#

I think I most enjoy how it still feels like it bites into the horus visual language successfully without using the exact same forms

#

Definitely has that almost lion like feel to it

shrewd geyser
#

I prefer the dark one, probably because its provoking fond memories of the Metroid Prime trilogy.

quaint beacon
#

This fucks

#

Theo does great work

hasty pulsar
#

tbh I prefer the darker one because the big gold thing kinda blends together to my eyes

#

I can see more detial and color on the dark one than the light gold one, even if the gold one is pretty sick

dusk arch
#

It's worth noting that the resolution on those image crops for the twitter post aren't necessarily the best

Chimera_HD.png Chimera_alt_color_HD.png
simple torrent
#

Hello! I ran an Ultra Reaver in a game tonight and wanted to offer some quick feedback. I gave it Argus Armor, Focused Dispersal, Supreme Melee.

I used a map with a gimmick where 2 objects could be destroyed to insta-kill everything in that quadrant at the end of the next round which is how the Reaver ultimately got got (the players only did 2 damage it and that was only to do some knockback). Retarius locked it down with double core power due to battery reserve.

My main feedback for the Reaver is that it needs some other kind quick action in its base kit. As is, it only has the default actions + Displacement Lash as a QA and Cannibalize as a full.

The other point is that I think Focused Dispersal is kinda lacking. It's a nice way to give the Reaver more reach, but it's a side-grade so having it cost both an action and inflicting slow makes it a bit mediocre as an optional.

That said, very fun NPC to use. Players were very afraid of it, but they had to cause the entire team was very close range. It managed to completely lock down 2 of them for 2 rounds.

dusk arch
#

I think my take on the "needs another action" thing is that a lot of NPCs don't have multiples actions of stuff in their base kits, assuming we're talking about the things they get by default and not optionals

south narwhal
#

I do like the gold one better, but they're both amazing.

nova slate
#

there are so many QA's they can do as a bseline

#

ram, lock on, invade, grapple

#

all perfectly usable and synergistic options

wise loom
#

Like

#

Ronin only has a weapon and a reaction, and it works fine

dusk arch
#

The point about focused dispersal is worth considering, I've been trying to make that more useful, so what I might do is shift it to a protocol

dusk arch
#

@simple torrent Thinking about the Reaver's kit and that I might replace the Greywash Coating optional with something else, since I don't think that one gets used a lot

Quick Tech
+2/4/6
The Reaver makes a tech attack against a character within Sensors. On a success, the target takes 2/3/4 heat and chooses one effect which lasts until the end of their next turn: the only voluntary movements they can make are toward the Reaver, or they become surrounded by a Burst 2 writhing swarm of nanites. All other hostile characters who start their turn in this area or enter it for the first time in a round take 2/3/4 burn + 2/3/4 heat.```
#

This may end up corresponding with an adjustment of the Reaver's sensor range, it currently stands at 10 but I might reduce it down some

simple torrent
#

that looks cool as hell

broken hill
#

Greywash probably doesn't get used much because no sell 2/3/4 burn isn't fun. If it consumed overwatch it would be more interesting as then it provides a way to set up a situation for someone with bad systems to escape the displacement lash at the cost of guaranteed burn.

dusk arch
#

I mean it's basically a variation of the Bastion's near-threat denial system

slim lodge
round cargo
#

Does repairing a weapon or system using Superior Logistics consume repair cap or not?

ionic badger
#

it does not

wicked tangle
#

Howdy yall! Does anyone have any build ideas for the Dart?

ionic badger
#

the Reaper Dart does well with any rifles really, so you can make use of the trait

#

extra Reliable is quite good

#

being able to move around with the Railgun is also amazing

wicked tangle
#

What are the ideal rifles to pair with it? The swallowtail ones?

junior prism
#

Honestly any of them seem solid. Rail Rifle for that reliable line, Oracles for the long range pings... I assume Reliable doesn't work on the Gravity Gun, right?

wicked tangle
#

That follows

#

Just to make sure I understand core bonuses right, I can only use the core bonus once but it gets refunded?

south narwhal
#

Yep, unless you have Universal Compatibility and roll a 20.

ionic badger
ionic badger
#

so you can basically use the CP once per Scene instead of once per mission like normal

granite radish
#

tfw you realize the universal compatibility core bonus happens to be really nice with efficient CP

junior prism
#

Yeah it's a solid combo

quaint beacon
#

I did use greywash coating on the one reaver I ran, it was highly successful

I do like this optional though

wicked tangle
#

Am I insane or is the Kangto crazy?

viral wave
#

How so?

wicked tangle
#

Getting a whole Russian nesting doll mech? That's a lot more health

#

Does it work with the Manticore?

viral wave
#

Castigate kills you, so you aren't there to pilot it

#

You'll also note that Kangto is functional but not nearly as good as the mech you start out piloting

#

It's a safety net

quaint beacon
#

the thing about the kangto is that the kangto, the mech, sucks

#

like, real bad

#

because that's the point of it

#

the core bonus is very cool and really neat for people who like to play dangerously but I wouldn't really call it an extremely strong general use core bonus

wicked tangle
#

Okay fair enough, I see what yall are saying

ionic badger
#

It's better than being a pilot

#

Is what I would concede to the Kangto

#

It's still an emergency option mostly

dusk arch
#

The Kangto exists because anywhere between 3-5 times a day here somebody asks "a player had their mech destroyed in the middle of a mission what do I do about this?" and everyone always says "idk use power at a cost to give them a new mech back"

#

so this core bonus essentially formalizes that dynamic in a way where you pay the costs up front and know the outcome each time

#

this does mean you can more proactively leverage it by playing recklessly/aggressively without needing to worry as much about the consequences, but as noted the tradeoff is that the kangto, no matter how you cut it, is never going to be as good as the mech you were piloting

quaint beacon
#

yea

granite radish
#

kangto is good imo

#

beef up its hp & heat
throw on the universal compatiblity core bonus

and using manticore as an example since I saw it mentioned
pick up slag carapace for resistance to energy & burn

#

suddenly it is a lot more durable than it looks!

#

huh

#

question

#

if you are in an everest & use initiative

#

but then blow up & escape into kangto

#

can you use kangto's initiative in same scene?

wicked tangle
#

Since there is one sample of the Emir's blood left is it possible to reclone him using the perfect blood?

ionic badger
rotund axle
#

IIRC Kangto still carries your OG mech's 1/scene limit on effects?

#

Need Kai for confirmation on that though

dusk arch
#

the emir had, basically, a bank of cloned bodies in storage and they all got fucked up, the current emir is the one who is somehow the least fucked up and by all rights should probably be dead

#

but yeah if you had the genetic material and you had the time you could make another body, you would also need the braintapes they were using to bootstrap the personality and memories into them

main plinth
#

oh wait, same scene

dusk arch
#

otherwise you just have a person who is genetically identical to the emir rather than the weird semi-autonomous puppet

main plinth
#

i rewad it as turn

dusk arch
# granite radish can you use kangto's initiative in same scene?

so the wording on inheritance is:
Inheritance: Choose one trait from your original mech and transfer it to the Kangto when this mech is first deployed. This now counts as that trait for the Kangto until the next Full Repair.
and it's worded in this way to try and eliminate the ambiguity between things like "wellllllllllllllllllllllll this lich trait says THE LICH can do this and the Kangto isn't the Lich so how can it continue to use soul vessels you placed as the lich etc etc etc etc" so there is essentially a continuity between traits in that sense

#

if we want to take that through to the end, it would suggest that a per-scene trait expended from, say, an Everest isn't going to un-expend itself when it gets ported over to the kangto

#

and if I'm being honest, given that most of the 1/scene traits are action economy breakers I'm not really super interested in people doing weird kangto stuff purely for the purpose of breaking the action economy further

#

so my evaluation is that yes, expended per-scene traits stay expended, you are literally ripping that trait off and bolting it to the kangto with continuity from the original

granite radish
#

works for me

#

also

#

blackbeard kangto is hilarious to me

dusk arch
#

this also applies for 1/round damage traits as well etc

#

if you procced a damage trait, you can't immediately re-proc it, etc

granite radish
#

grapple cable or kill/lock subsystem & synthetic muscle netting on a kangto would be really funny imo

rotund axle
#

Atlas Kangto

#

The Atlas parts just slide off like decals to reveal the Kangto underneath

granite radish
#

jager dodge on kangto sounds fun

#

kangto with finishing blow, duelist 3, siege ram, synthetic muscle netting & titanomancy mesh also sounds fun

rotund axle
#

Oh I more meant Giantkiller but that works too

wicked tangle
dusk arch
#

yeah

#

she isn't really interested in cloning him though

#

she's the one who spiked his clone banks in the first place, the plan was to kill him for good

#

what's important in the broad sense isn't "oh we can clone the emir again," it's "we have a clean genetic sample that can be used to access the defense network"

wicked tangle
#

If the Janissaries knew about the sample they'd probably B-line there right?

dusk arch
#

they 10000% would, so would anyone really

#

the sample would be the single most valuable thing on the planet if anyone else knew about it

wicked tangle
#

God I love this lore so much.

Worst case scenario, how would it look if the NHP controlling all the defense networks cascaded?

dusk arch
#

well it would be a cascading NHP in control of a network of orbital and ground-based weapons platforms answering to no one else's authority but its own so I would say it would probably look pretty bad

wicked tangle
#

Would it still then have access/control over the weapons even if it's breaking subjectivity?

dusk arch
#

They have access over them now, they're just still (mostly) operating within nominal parameters

wicked tangle
#

Dang the Sags bow does a lot of damage

#

What frames do yall recommend after LL3 for the Sagittarius

#

Pardon license levels

ionic badger
#

you probably mostly want utility and defense

wicked tangle
#

Probably stuff that synergistic with invisible and hidden right?

broken hill
#

I love the Sag because of the utility and counterplay it gives. I wouldn't really call it high damage.

wicked tangle
#

You can give it another 1d6 with crackshot since it's considered a rifle

wicked tangle
#

How would yall recommend voicing/RPing Araska?

granite radish
#

2d6+3 is almost HMG damage!

quaint beacon
#

sure, but HMG takes half the actions to fire

#

sag is good but it gets a rap from Lancer Understanders for being broken when it... really isn't lmao

granite radish
#

Oh is it a superheavy or something?

quaint beacon
#

on a skirmish, the bow is 1d6+3

#

you can draw it back with another quick to increase it to 2d6+3

#

so you basically need to barrage to get that 2d6+3, on top of, as stated, being an integrated and thus not moddable/opcal-able etc

#

it's good, but it's a utility weapon

granite radish
#

ah

nova slate
#

i think the deepunderstanders hype up the hide interactions n stuff

quaint beacon
#

yeah

#

which is strong but it's not "no counterplay" levels of broken like they claim it is

nova slate
#

and like, its good. That's its whole gimmick. I wouldn't say brok-yeah

granite radish
#

isn’t scout what field when you want to remove hidden from a pc

quaint beacon
#

I ran a playtest game with a high level sagi once and it spent the entirety of one combat getting bullied by a pair of conscripts with the panzerfaust optional

nova slate
#

certainly i might have to be more considerate of an opfor i build to encounter one and meaningfully engage with it; but not any more than a couple of 1st party mechs and the like

#

i really should have put the panzerfaust on my conscripts that i inserted into solstice rain

#

or at least put them on every other one

#

gave em combat shields and called it a day

quaint beacon
#

tier 1 panzerfaust is the funniest thing in the game

#

a hull save that is easier than a hull check

nova slate
#

just a lil bit of punch i think wouldve been smart of me

#

but alas

#

they pew pew a bit and often just use panic fire

#

to be annoying

#

but not deadly

quaint beacon
#

as someone who both plays and gms, conscripts are my single favorite thing in suldan

#

they're just shitty little men and sometimes that's all you need

nova slate
#

i often like to play them with a bit of that "im glued to this cover" personality

granite radish
#

that’s not a grunt! It’s an advanced grunt!

nova slate
#

not for them is the bold plays of lancers

#

no sir

#

they have a thick piece of material and a gun

#

UNLESS

#

a sergeant happens to be around

#

or a commander templated unit

granite radish
#

sergeant: calls in grunts

ionic badger
#

but yeah the Sagi is good, but main locked frames do need a good bit of spice to keep up with heavies IMO

slim lodge
#

for the sergeant's optional that summons 4 grunts, it only says sensors. does it also require line of sight, or just sensors?

dusk arch
#

technically the sergeant is placing the grunts like they were some sort of deployable so in this case yes they would need LoS

#

I'm unsure if I really want to be that restrictive about it for that ability or not, but that's the current interpretation

slim lodge
#

ogre scrapper, or as I like to call it, discount zheng

south narwhal
#

I want to run a game with Conscripts, then Veteran Conscripts, then Elite Conscripts, then Ultra Conscripts, and they're the same two guys.

slim lodge
wicked tangle
#

Does the Worden want me to black thumb it? So I can the turret mount?

dusk arch
#

you can't use the turret mount in a black thumb rodeo

#

A). being in the turret mount is essentially like being in an expanded compartment of sorts, and while in a rodeo you are in a special half-in/half-out state, and B). even if you somehow weren't in that state, black thumb is very explicit that the only actions you can take during a black thumb rodeo are those the talent grants you

#

you can't even just shoot a pilot weapon

main plinth
#

The turret mount is best saved for a pilot with a destroyed mech, or your favorite marine npc buddy.

ionic badger
#

you need to fully Dismount to get into the turret, yeah

wicked tangle
#

Oh like an NPC can use the turret?

dusk arch
#

if there happens to be one nearby who wants to ride desant, sure

#

or a dismounted ally PC whose mech blew up

wicked tangle
#

If I use the core Trait of the Worden and barrage (giving me a quick action) can I additionally overcharge for another free action?

dusk arch
#

sure

#

can't be a skirmish but go nuts

swift barn
# 
[ LICENSES ]
  IPS-N WORDEN 2, IPS-N OVERLORD 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Superior Logistics
[ TALENTS ]
  Scrounger 3, BLACK THUMB 1, Giant Killer 1, Spotter 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:2 AGI:3 SYS:0 ENGI:0
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:14 ARMOR:1
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:5 REPAIR:7
  TECH ATK:-1 LIMITED:+0
  SPD:4 EVA:10 EDEF:8 SENSE:15 SAVE:12
[ WEAPONS ]
  HEAVY MOUNT: "Warthog" GPMG
  MAIN MOUNT: Sticky Launcher
  FLEX MOUNT: Pistol / MC-DWA Wasp Nexus
[ SYSTEMS ]
  MITHRA-Class NHP, MASS Pack, Turret Mount```
We do have this build we created for committing Turret Mount Shenanigans™️
#

(the pilot themself is equipped with a heavy hardsuit, triage stim, and patches)

quaint beacon
#

turret mount is really funny but I have a hard time justifying it narratively just because it's so easy to just get pasted and die in it

#

definitely best in games where you have, like, faceless npc grunt soldiers on your side

#

good build tho I love to see warthog rep

dusk arch
#

there's a reason it costs 1 SP off a one level dip

#

it basically exists to be a "sometimes a cool story arises because of this" system

quaint beacon
#

yea

#

it's great for that purpose

swift barn
#

We like this build because it works as "haha funny dismount build" but it's also relatively competent at just doing Lock On shenanigans as well.

drowsy coyote
#

You could probably combo it with that dustgrave exotic power armour

swift barn
#

We would still be counted as "dismounted" we think while we were in the turret mount, so it'd halve our mech's actions and like

#

This build is a more effective mech build than a pilot build.

ionic badger
swift barn
#

Also that.

nova slate
#

so my impromptu titan fight is full swing in solstice rain lol

#

its fired its spinal lance for the first time, nearly one shotted a liminal space morgana, hitting its target while it was exposed and prone

#

he got finished off by a conscript, but THEN his kangto leapt out

#

the titan has spent i think it was 3 full turns just scooching

blissful sedge
#

Suldan is about 2.4 lightyears away from Sia Kangri Station, if I read the book right. Is that correct?

#

(can'tsearch forum threads to see if it's been discussed)

dusk arch
#

I don't know that I give an exact distance but there's mention that it takes the Iphigenia "90 days nearlight and deceleration" to reach it from Sia Kangri

blissful sedge
#

I have a big planet sheet where I put all of the planets that coexist in my personal Dream of the Choir and I like to have "distance to blink" so I can autocalc travel distances between A & B

summer niche
#

So I'm starting a Suldan campaign soon, and was wondering if anyone had any songs/playlists that they associate with the setting; I'm looking for something to plan to

slim lodge
ashen parrot
#

Yeah this is a nice time to return to Discord lmao

#

I prefer the darker version since the blue stands out more

dusk arch
#

so periodically someone here asks "hey is there anything you're interested in seeing really vigorously tested" and I've gotten a good amount of feedback on things like NPCs, right now what I would be interested in if people are amenable is the Enhanced Systems Upgrade core bonus

Establishing the baseline for quality in an ever-evolving galaxy means innovation and iteration. Smaller, lighter, faster, and more powerful electronic and systemic components allow that quality to be continuously maintained.

You gain +2 SP. 1/round, on a successful Invade against a hostile character you may either deal +2 heat or choose a second Invasion option (you must choose two different options).```
#

I get a good number of passing comments on this being overtuned, largely due to the combination of it being a hacking bonus on top of +2 SP, but not a lot of elaboration on what +2 SP does to push something over the top, and I would love to have some more in-depth feedback regarding "on my summer vacation I used ESU to break the game along these lines, X, Y, and Z"

#

like you can point to "I used Superior by Design in this fight to ignore the following NPC invades and abilities" as an impact that the core bonus had, how overpower caliber or auto-stabilizing hardpoints tipped attacks in your favor and how you used them to build a mech that can reliably one-shot enemies within Y amount of HP, etc

#

I know there are people who love to take something and push it to the point that it breaks something, and right now I am simply not convinced that +2 SP is capable of doing this the same way that a bunch of other things in the game are. I'm willing to admit I may be wrong on that front, but I'd like to actually have it be shown why

#

To be clear, I've had feedback on this one and a lot of it has been "it's fine" which is why it hasn't been changed so far, but I still see "this is overtuned" comments so I want to see if I'm missing something

nova slate
#

the double hacking has been the bigger impactful at my table, but has yet to feel outright broken

#

the bigger impact*

dusk arch
#

I mean I'll take feedback on that side of it too sure

quaint beacon
#

I've played with ESU pretty extensively, both as a player alongside ESU hackers, and as a GM (for specifically an ESU pesilat), and my feedback is, yeah, it's seriously fine.

the +2 SP is a neat ribbon, all it really does is pay for the hacking system you need to actually have equipped for the system to do anything. through all my charopping over the years and my brief stint homebrewing things, I feel like people pretty massively overvalue SP as a stat, because it doesn't really usually ever translate to a direct increase in power. it lets you do more things, but the action economy of lancer being as strict as it usually is (OC spamming, ASURA-equipped everests notwithstanding), means that you usually can't actually use all of the systems you equip on a given turn if you have a lot of SP

the double hacking part of ESU is definitely, by far, the most impactful portion of it. probably the 'scariest' build I've seen that made use of it was an ESU chomolungma @languid cosmos played in a shortshot I was in, where he was just an extremely effective hacker that could also heatgun like a motherfucker due to system crusher, but he wasn't really completely dominating encounters at all; it just made his build all-around better, in the same way opcal made my oc-looping toku better

from the GM side, it's always felt fine to play against, though my GM experience is exclusively for a pesilat who, generally speaking, blows things up if he gets in melee reach regardless, though I'd be interested to hear his thoughts on it from a player side as well. (@simple patrol) from my end, the specifics of him double-invading people allows him to put NPCs in really interesting catch-22 situations, while also slamming people with really good damage

it's a really good core, to be sure, but... I wouldn't call it broken or anything. for me to call a core broken it has to be something I'd want on basically every single build, and while, yeah, I'd definitely take ESU on every single suldan-capable hacker I make, it's nowhere near the ubiquity of, like, SBD or heatfall for me, if that makes sense

also hackers deserve rights

#

actually while I'm pinging people I may as well ping @storm rover for her thoughts, since she was the one who GMed for izaak's ESU-chomo

#

I feel like on a hacker specifically where, unless you are a goblin, you are probably heavily investing in sys anyway, the +2 SP is especially not a huge deal

from my experience dedicated hackers usually already have way more SP than they know what to do with and end up grabbing a bunch of 'just in case' systems or ablative shit like manips

#

ESU paying for armament redundancy and persos on a goblin is real nice though

#

gotta protect that opcal autopod

viral wave
#

I wonder if there are builds taking it for SP without intending to hack much with it

#

in a quick mech hangar check, that doesn't seem to be the case

dusk arch
ionic badger
dusk arch
#

my personal stance on "+SP core bonuses" is that I don't actually think +SP is comparable to other +stat/number core bonuses like +5 HP or even +2 limited systems

ionic badger
#

core bonuses are really good is the thing

dusk arch
#

but part of trying to nail stuff down is asking myself "is my personal stance on a thing keeping me from assessing it accurately"

ionic badger
#

having SP is great, but a lot of builds have higher priorities for cores

south narwhal
#

Yeah, the core bonuses you're competing against are things like Autostab or OpCal.

#

Heatfall and Superior By Design aren't on every build because they're gated, but I have taken 3 levels of a HA license just to get one of those.

dusk arch
#

like I genuinely struggle to think of how spending one of four core bonuses on +2 SP stacks up to all the other choices you're competing with, even among the GMS catalogue, even if you aren't building a turbo ultra combat striker

quaint beacon
#

yeah, I've said it multiple times but from a charop perspective... a core bonus that gives nothing but SP would need to give an insane amount of SP for it to actually be worth a core bonus

#

like, probably more than +4

south narwhal
#

There's a weapon mount in Suldan that gives an insane amount of SP, and no one uses it, because having an actual weapon is better.

dusk arch
#

again though, personal bias and all that, I've had people break stuff I thought was okay before and I'm always willing to have someone illustrate "hey you fucked up and here's how"

south narwhal
#

Probably the best case scenario is Frag Sig into Smite.

#

Or Sear into System Crusher.

dusk arch
#

idk I've seen some people use tactical webbing before, mainly in a context of "I have no real plans to use this mount so whatever"

quaint beacon
#

tactical webbing is great, unironically

#

but it's very build-specific

dusk arch
#

there's lots of stuff that lives in a space of "I have a mount I don't plan on using, I might as well use it as a utility space"

quaint beacon
#

if iskander's level/core bonus situation wasn't so dire for "optimal" iskandering I'd take webbing on every single isk

dusk arch
#

a lot of three-mount mechs will do things like pack an RPG or an autogun or something if they feel like it, tac webbing exists in a similar sort of space, I probably wouldn't use it on my ONLY mount

swift barn
#

SP is a horizontal power boost as opposed to a vertical one, yeah. Which is what the second half of ESU is for.

dusk arch
#

anyway it's open season on ESU if someone can push it to the breaking point, like at this point I want to see if someone CAN break it somehow

quaint beacon
#

the only circumstance where ESU is really broken imo is also on a limspace thing which, you know, is neither your fault nor your problem

swift barn
#

We feel like there has to be some kind of Invade one-two punch that tips it over the edge but all we have are like. Theoreticals.

quaint beacon
#

(nor is it limspace's fault or problem, to be clear)

swift barn
#

And Kai's fairly clearly looking for like. Playtest experience and stuff, so we've refrained.

quaint beacon
#

if anything actually relevant to suldan is going to break ESU it's going to be the chomo but, like

I've played with ESU chomo, it's great, but it wasn't the suldan build our GM was having pain points trying to interact with

south narwhal
#

But yeah, it's like OpCal for hackers.

quaint beacon
#

(that crown belonged to my heinous ACR-M oc loop toku)

south narwhal
#

If it were in the core book, people would just feel, "This is how powerful core bonuses are."

ionic badger
#

I think ESU is strong, but I think that's a good thing mostly

#

hackers deserve a good core too IMO

quaint beacon
#

yeah that's basically where I'm at

dusk arch
#

My stance is that it would probably be "still fine" if I stripped the +2 SP out of it but it would also be extremely more limited in terms of "who wants to take this" to dedicated hackers only

#

I have a whole essay on this subject which I've collated since designing it which boils down to: damage and damage-oriented core bonuses have much more crossover with hacking mechs than I believe would be the opposite

#

Goblin pilots love to take overcaliber on an autopod, etc, lots of support or control mechs are very comfortable picking one of the five different GMS "use more weapons more better" core bonuses (or superheavy mounting to have a fire-and-forget cyclone pulse rifle etc), but I do not believe the average Sherman or Raleigh...not even mechs with bad tech stats to the same degree the Goblin is a mech with bad "gun stats"...would ever give a shit about a core bonus that's made to enhance hacking with the same degree of crossover interest

The SP bonus exists, in some nominal fashion, to make the core bonus less "all in on invades or nothing" and therefore slightly more broadly appealing, even if I doubt many people would take it JUST for the SP when stacked up next to a swathe of highly competitive options vying for your attention (overcaliber, auto-stabilizing hardpoints, +5 HP, superior by design, heatfall, etc). But if they want to and they feel like spending a whole core bonus on it then okay cool, I actually consider that mission accomplished```
swift barn
#

I'm not sure people take this core bonus as it is if they aren't a dedicated hacker, but.

dusk arch
#

Well I'm not either but I've been told the SP pushes it past the point of sensibility a non-zero number of times so here we are

#

"I don't think people would actually do this" lines up with my own stance on the matter, hence what I'm curious to see is if someone can prove me to be a big fat dumb idiot

swift barn
#

We've flipflopped on our ESU opinions in past but it hasn't been because of the SP bonus.

ionic badger
#

ESU needs you to both Invade a decent amount of times, and actually have another Invade system to make use of it

#

which, if you do both of those already, I would generally consider that build a hacker, if maybe not necessarily a full one

quaint beacon
#

people take opcal on hackers all the time because it turns out having a +1d6 damage skirmish (or not even a skirmish in the case of autopod) is really good

#

the +2 SP is, frankly, a lot more relevant on mechs that AREN'T dedicated hackers

#

but people who do, like, skirmish + invade turns

#

for them, ESU is incredible and the +2 SP pays for systems that also, like, make your guns better

#

thinking very specifically of, like, an opcal esu monarch

#

who tosses out a skirmish + invade every turn with their gandivas from range 15

#

the +2 SP isn't breaking things for them but it's making their system budget a lot comfier

swift mesa
#

My thoughts from my experiences in ESU is 'The best option about but not so much better that it breaks the game'

#

Opcal is basicly the comparson, as others have said.

#

Opcal is taken basicly more than any other core bonus in the game but it's not snapping the game in half

dusk arch
#

I think it's even broader than overcaliber, though thematically they're clearly in the same boat

#

like in terms of "is there a standout core bonus in the base game" overcaliber is sort of the big dumb obvious answer but there are actually a lot of really strong core bonuses, even if you limit yourself to "just fight better" stuff

#

i.e. is overcaliber better than auto-stabilizing hardpoints is an oft-had argument

#

core bonus opportunity costs are one of the most competitive spaces in the game, imo, more than frames or even weapons, you have only so many choices to spend and a lot of extremely compelling options (and then a bunch of more niche options you can build around if you want, like Lesson of Thinking Tomorrow's Thoughts etc)

quaint beacon
# 
[ LICENSES ]
  SSC Monarch 2, HORUS Goblin 1, HORUS Manticore 2, SSC Swallowtail 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Overpower Caliber, Enhanced Systems Upgrade
[ TALENTS ]
  Nuclear Cavalier 3, Skirmisher 3, Stormbringer 2, Brutal 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:2 AGI:0 SYS:4 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:17 ARMOR:1
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:8 REPAIR:4
  TECH ATK:+5 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:5 EVA:8 EDEF:12 SENSE:15 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  Integrated: Fuel Rod Gun
  FLEX MOUNT: Autopod
  MAIN MOUNT: Assault Rifle
  HEAVY MOUNT: Gandiva Missiles // Overpower Caliber
[ SYSTEMS ]
  H0R_OS System Upgrade I, Lotus Projector, Personalizations, Beckoner, Smite```
slapped this together in like 2 minutes but this is kind of what I'm thinking of

the +2 SP on ESU is really nice and lets you fit an extra hack system but it's not necessary for the build to function in the slightest
#

summon/sear on one action is actually real strong tho

#

ideal play pattern here if you can swing it is probably ESU summon/sear invade to expose a guy and then blow him the fuck up with gandivas

#

strong but it's still basically just a barrage equivalent to kill one guy, you know?

swift mesa
#

The thing I feel can get real fucking mean from my play experiance is entertainingly Ye Old Fragment Signal.

#

Fragment Signal + Smite in a single hack is evil

quaint beacon
#

oh yeah just tacking on fragsig to every invade you do incidentally is great

swift mesa
#

'Impaired...oh and now save vs stunned'

quaint beacon
#

how would you like to be impaired for this sav to not be stunned

#

yeah

#

lmao

swift mesa
#

If lancer had more access to 'do more heat' hacks I'd be a bit concerned about doubledipping Sear + That but there isn't really much that's Garunteed Heat like Sear, most are more 'get heat if don't play into my control'

swift barn
#

Our thoughts on the double hack of ESU (disclaimer for an external perspective) is that it feels less like "you get more Invade in your Invade" in a similar way to OpCal and more "you get a second Invade that simply Hits" since the main bulk of an Invade isn't the 2 Heat and is instead whatever control option you set up alongside it.
But also we don't necessarily know if that's, say, a bad thing? It's hard to tell.

quaint beacon
#

yeah the only thing that really plays into it is chomo's system crusher

dusk arch
#

ESU's "extra half hack" is set up like it is because if you were to do the most straightforward braindead "make opcal for hacking" core bonus it would just be "1/round do +2 heat when you hit with invade" and my personal stance on that is that it's A). very boring and B). very reductive in terms of what invades are, boiling the game's primary control suite down to heatgunning

swift barn
#

We would say if it was just +2 Heat, it would be underwhelming, yeah.

dusk arch
#

there really isn't a 1-1 translation between invades and something like "more damage on an attack"

swift mesa
#

It would also imo sorta miss the best part of hacking.

#

As heat is very secondary to the Control Aspect of hacking

dusk arch
#

the other alternative would be a bespoke effect of some sort, but frankly I simply do not know what that would look like at this juncture

swift mesa
#

You could unironically do '1/round when you invade, also Slow or Impair Them' as 'You get Half a Fragment Signal'.

dusk arch
#

maybe, but I'd rather have something that plugs into the existing invasion framework more, sort of how the chomolungma's core power also lets you pick and mix from your invade toolkit

opaque crane
swift barn
dusk arch
#

at any rate, a lot of what I'm curious about is really more just "is having +2 SP actually pushing this into some broken space because I'm ignorant of how spending a core bonus for 2 extra SP is letting someone speedrun the game"

swift mesa
#

I think the SP is mostly just 'Oh, that's cute'. It's not a ribbon effect but it's not really the Big Thing.

swift barn
#

+2 SP is definitely nice. Can never have enough systems and there's never enough space. But it's not gamebreaking, no.

nova slate
#

I think to add to your log of responses, I don't think +2 sp is broken. It's pretty good, but it's not broken

#

I guess if you pick up personalizations with part of it, it's like using a cb to get a free HASE investment + the other stuff

south narwhal
#

Why is Ontological Pulse 4 SP for a limited 1/scene ability that stuns you?

swift barn
#

Because it lets all of your friends do like 3 actions, iwrc

dusk arch
#

it is basically a second sort of core power in a can

#

"all allies in sensors can reload a weapon for free" would probably, on its own, be something people would argue is in the 3 SP range and that's one of multiple things it facilitates, including additional movement, freely standing from prone, granting accuracy on attacks, letting people mess with their heat bars, etc

south narwhal
#

True.

simple patrol
# dusk arch so periodically someone here asks "hey is there anything you're interested in se...

i feel that +2 SP just lets you afford the extra hack so i think that people saying it's overtuned might be an overlap with people who take systems just for the SP. i really appreciated it on my pesilat because it meant that i could afford the extra hacks a bit easier and slot in an option that may have otherwise been scrapped because "i need hull for melee right now, i can't afford systems when my tech attack is already okay"

i like having it on my pesilat as nasajin said, it generally means i can slam on "damned if you do, damned if you don't" hacks like putting on a minotaur "you take heat if you move" and the pesilat "take penalties for actions you take" in one go. i like ESU a lot and never felt like it's more overtuned/ubituitous than some of the other "you always want it" bonuses

the only point against it is that the +2 SP can be a "newbie trap" for the reasons i mentioned where less experienced players often overvalue SP, but that's a problem that goes far beyond the scope of what a third party supplement can be expected to guide/correct in

#

i also feel that its once per round limitation inherently keeps it balanced. it's not like it's "every hack you make ever". it's essentially a free 1.5 full tech invade which i think is comparable to what other core bonuses give, like you could mathematically argue that a +1 accuracy core bonus is saving you an extra action entirely (by making it so you don't "have" to lock onto an enemy to get +1 accuracy). you're kind of getting half of an invade off of ESU

main plinth
#

oh... I got two bites.

#

One player has decided to swap to it JUST for the extra SP.... cause they want more space for another NHP with their other core bonus....

#

and I have a friend going to make a full hacker build for it for tomorrow night's game

final forum
#

that leaves just the flying nelson and fearkiller, right? all the art in this book is always so so so cool

#

thought i guess flight type basically has semi official art from Peyton if someone asked for a ref, just not in suldan

dusk arch
#

Gajasura as well, so three frames remaining and a number of NPCs (disregarding any other interior pieces I might want)

final forum
#

OH YEA, I ALWAYS FORGET ABOUT THAT ALT

#

my brain remembers an older version of the doc before that one existed in there, so i always forget how cool it is

#

my friend likes the chimera, hahaha

quaint beacon
#

gajasura is my favorite suldan frame I've never played

#

it's just so sick

dusk arch
#

I wouldn't call it THE official soundtrack, but it's a pretty good starting point for some stuff

slim lodge
#

let's say I have an ogre scrapper and an ally rainmaker that just put out a wolfhound missile. the missile is damaged and only has 5 health

the ogre, in quick thinking, wants to use the piledriver + knockback reaction to send the drone flying to an enemy. Knockback and damage takes effect on hit, as well as the reaction being triggered by the hit

let's say it's a hit. If I send the drone away via knockback first and it would collide with a player, will it blow up as it collides? or is it destroyed since it lost all its HP after the knockback?

dusk arch
#

so first off, unless specified otherwise reactions resolve after whatever they were procced in response to

# 
that triggers them. Some resolve beforehand under
specific triggers, such as when an attack is
declared but before the roll is made – if so, the
reaction will specify.```
#

otherwise, on hit effects (damage plus knockback, such as on the piledriver weapon) can be applied in whatever order you want

#

and I mean the piledriver has knockback 5

#

so if you punch the missile with the piledriver you can choose to knock it back 5 before applying the damage, but you can't go "first I'll do the reaction, then resolve the attack that triggered it"

ashen parrot
slim lodge
drowsy coyote
#

The craziest thing I’ve ever seen or done with esu is with the emperor and manticore stuff

#

Because you can do two hacks, and recharge the OS

dusk arch
ionic badger
#

Emperor doesn't have any Invades, so curious what you mean there

dusk arch
#

I'm guessing it's something like "use ESU on an Emperor equipped with Manticore invade systems so you can 1.5x hack and also use a quick action to do overshield stuff" but that doesn't immediately sound crazy to me so I'm thinking I have to be missing something

drowsy coyote
#

The main thing is that you can do something like summon into sear each turn if you want

#

Or frag signal into smite

#

Not that it’s broken imo

#

Just that’s legit as crazy as it gets