#Field Guide to Suldan

1 messages · Page 2 of 1

dusk arch
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But periodically the defense network realigns the remaining satellites and may destroy someone coming or going and so it's a riskier and more involved process than it might otherwise be

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It's not quite clear what prompts the defense network to decide to take an active interest in someone at the moment, whether it's based on the size of the ship making the attempt, how armed it is, if there's any sort of heightened security schedule, etc. It so far appears to occur arbitrarily

swift mesa
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The Satellites are just calling a random number generator like Doom to decide if they attack right now.

sweet citrus
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Right yeah, I'm assuming nobody unsponsored by a state or Arclight is going to have an easy/cheap ride downwell

opaque crane
amber crystal
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Approaching the end of the Grand Games' Grand Final tonight. It's going to be a brutal finish to the Grand Games after three missions, three assassination attempts, three poisonings, a sleeper agent, a dead Baron, and a Spinal Tachyon Lance. Now all that's left to stop the players is a crypto-Janissary trying to imitate Jun's rise through the Grand Games.

dusk arch
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that sounds like a pretty typical grand games

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in all seriousness that sounds extremely rad

plush hedge
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@dusk arch Didn’t you mention before that it was intended for the Underbarrel Breacher’s Loading property to function independently from the weapon it’s attached to, or did you change your mind on that?

dusk arch
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It's a separate weapon

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It functions in all respects like a separate weapon would

nova slate
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kinda wanna make a mech with an AR and an underbarrel breacher, along with tactical webbing for more grenades

plush hedge
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Underbarrel AR + DSAS and a heavy of your choice sounds rad

nova slate
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well, my mental vision is like a "single mounted weapon" vibe if that makes sense

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me and my trusty AR

gray thistle
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I like the Underbarrel on a main/aux for a gunslinger build a lot

dusk arch
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The specific text within the document currently, for reference, is this:
Choose one Main or Heavy weapon. You may use the following profile whenever you attack with that weapon. Any other modifications (from core bonuses etc) applied to the weapon do not apply to this profile, and you may continue to attack with the modified weapon even when this profile requires reloading:

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so technically it is a separate weapon profile, BUT unlike the siege cannon it being unloaded doesn't lock you out

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it does mean that you cannot skirmish with the weapon the breacher is mounted to AND the breacher as its associated aux followup, but that's by design as it's not really meant to be a pocket turn-a-main-into-a-main/aux tool

gray thistle
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This is dustgrave, though?

urban jungle
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Welp I did the thing, posted in the wrong thread, fully embarrassed myself online and showed my whole ass to the internet

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kill me now

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Sorry

swift mesa
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Eh, don't worry mate.

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Hardly a big deal.

gray thistle
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Yeah, but might not get the best answer here is the thing. Didn't need to delete it :p

amber crystal
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My Suldan campaign's Grand Game's Grand Final has concluded!

Fight Highlights:
-The Supreme Melee Security Veteran Commander Ultra Gladiator was moving objects around via Hydraulic Claw all over the map with a bit of a GM Fiat, including a Size 4 Bonus Objective Target. (It would be so much fun as an official feature.)

-When the said Size 4 Bonus Objective object had 9 HP left, the player with callsign Nine rolls a 9 to destroy the Bonus Objective, for a fine boost to their popularity and stopping the Emirates from gaining popularity.

-The boss also got to Calamity Throw a self-destructing NPC into a crowd of players and got three of them caught in the explosion. (Plus a player who had a FADE Cloak up)

-The Lich had the Reaper Dart to shoot them to destroy their frame.

-The boss had the middle of the control zone with 5 Structures and 4 Stress left by their last activation of the sitrep, but the Lich respawned after them and used Puppet System to walk the boss out of the zone and win the sitrep.

-The players are crowned the Grand Champions and of course, the Emir immediately launches an assault with the Titan, which would be for the next week's session.

dusk arch
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"someone walks the enemy off the objective zone with puppet systems" happens so many times

nova slate
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puppet systems is such a dominant hack, its wild

harsh zealot
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Looking forward to when my Solstice Rain Chomolungma player gets it.

amber crystal
dusk arch
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Whenever you become Stunned due to structure damage, you may still make either a standard move or a quick action of your choice during your turn. Additionally, 1/scene, whenever you Overcharge to make an attack as an additional quick action, you may add +2 Accuracy to any attack roll that action requires and its damage cannot be reduced in any way.

I think I'm probably going to streamline and simplify Hypertuned Interface after years of stubbornly not doing so, following a lot of discussions recently on the nature of core bonuses with drawbacks which boil down to "even for flavor reasons it's probably not a great idea." The other simplification is locking it down as plugging into attacks simply because there aren't a lot of non-attack quick actions that require a roll of any sort beyond the very occasional contested check, and while I'm a big Reinforced Cabling fan I feel that being able to pare the wording down is more worthwhile

gray thistle
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I wonder if you can squeeze something similar into a system or frame, though?

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Though I'm wondering whether a frame built around using your Pilot's HP as a resource is a good or bad idea. (When using bonds, it helps a lot)

dusk arch
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The reason I'm dropping it is mainly because having gone over it, and discussed similar concepts with other core bonus designs, that the conclusion I've reached is that it isn't really a great idea, bonds are more of a different conceptual space

gray thistle
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Ah, sorry, this is what I meant:

I think your reasoning is sound to change it, though I'm going to miss that bit of flavor being seen back in the mechanics. Just speculating on whether it's a good idea to have in the game outside of a core bonus, and specifically a frame using your pilot's HP as a resource.

Why I brought up Bonds is because those don't use Pilot HP for the consequences during narrative anymore, and is kept strictly to the mech combat section, so it doesn't intrude on the Narrative/Combat split.

dusk arch
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I think the difficulty in zeroing it in is that pilot HP is sort of binary, it's either "the damage you take doesn't matter" or "you're out of the fight" as opposed to something like structure which is more granular

gray thistle
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Yeah, which is why I'd look at it like a resource. And if done with a frame there might be some "life support" traits to make it less static. No idea if it would actually work, but because of bonds there is now design space there. Though again... no clue whether it's actually a good idea. xD

nova slate
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i dunno if its relevant, but having a dedicated interaction with bonds when they're not an assumed part of the play experience might also create additional challenges if you did go that way?

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or that is to say, creating a system/mech option that runs on the expectation that bonds are in play

gray thistle
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Yeah, that's probably the biggest issue

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If we ever see a lancer update, it'd be cool if bonds were part of the base game (I can dream 😔 )

dusk arch
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Echo Mine (Mine, Burst 2): This mine detonates when any character moves over or adjacent to it, creating a high intensity scanning field. All characters caught within the area when it detonates must pass a Systems save or take 4 heat. On a success, they take 2 heat. You and all allied characters ignore line of sight when making ranged attacks and tech actions against characters within the area, and gain +1 Accuracy on all attacks against characters within it. Hostile characters within the area cease to be Hidden, cannot Hide, and cannot benefit from Invisibility as long as they remain there. This area lasts until the end of your next turn; if you take the Scan or Lock On Quick Tech action during your next turn, you may extend the duration of all your detonated echo mine areas until the end of your following turn. This can be repeated.

A couple slight adjustments to the echo mine function of Scanner Charges:
1). the "arcing" effect now extends to all tech actions and not just tech attacks
2). rather than becoming a thing you can shoot to end the effect, it now has a duration which can be extended by taking specific actions, which means there's less of a chance that it can be quickly stomped out by an enemy, subject to AoE damage, etc

swift mesa
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Hmm...okay, a minor wording thing.

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Wait, nevermind. Figured it out.

dusk arch
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what was it

swift mesa
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Oh, it is pretty silly. Mostly the fact that it's got so much before the duration is mentioned you need to read over it once, then go back over it a second time to really evaluate it.

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I do wonder if this thing would be helped by making it 2 paragraphs.

eager cedar
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as worded you can't actually arc wandering nightmare into the area, also. though a bit minor.

dusk arch
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I'm okay with that tbh

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it opens up lock ons, scans, exotic tech type stuff out of wallflower, bolster, etc

swift mesa
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I also have the vague feeling that this is one where players would really like the ability to manually trigger it. As the area it opens up attacking in is bigger than the triggering radius.

dusk arch
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two points:
1). it has a grenade function which works similarly, which is the "I want this now" function
2). players are free to trigger it the way they're free to trigger any mine in the game, by walking next to it

gray thistle
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Wooooow ok, that's really neat. I like the part where we can extend their duration a lot

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Being able to get arcing for your tech actions is also super cool

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The grenade function can't be extended, can it?

dusk arch
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It can't

gray thistle
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Also yeah, do agree this might want to be split into two paragraphs, but that does feel a bit off with it being on a grenade/mine system as I think that might make it seem like a separate effect. Though if the grenade has a similar effect, maybe something can be done with that? Like an explanation of what "the area" does for both effects below the grenade/mine options, and having the things that are different be explained in the grenade/mine entries

dusk arch
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And I'm probably going to adjust the grenade slightly as well

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My take re: length is that in terms of house formatting style, grenade/mine systems do not get paragraph breaks

gray thistle
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Yeah, I think it'd be a bad idea to do a paragraph break, but rather than a break, giving "the effect" a name, with explanation underneath the g/m entries if it's a ton of similar text might work?

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It's just that it's a very wordy effect, so ways to reduce and make it simpler to read might be good. Whether my idea works or is necessary, hm... well, that'll depend on the new grenade too!

dusk arch
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Pulse Grenade (Grenade, Range 5, Blast 2): Scan all hostile characters within the affected area, and hostile characters within the area cease to be Hidden, cannot Hide, and cannot benefit from Invisibility as long as they remain there. This area lasts until the end of your next turn.

gray thistle
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Yep, my idea won't work

dusk arch
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This is a case where I think the formatting moving to the System box will improve its legibility

gray thistle
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This scan not counting to extend the duration of the mine might feel awkward?

dusk arch
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I want the effect to have a specific, deliberate cost

gray thistle
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Yeah, and there are issues with chomp or other free scans/ lock ons otherwise. Adding another line to extend the duration of your echo mines would feel tacked on too, hm

dusk arch
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If what I wanted to do was simplify things, what I would probably do is excise the heat on detonation, and trade that out for an expanded radius
Echo Mine (Mine, Burst 3): This mine detonates when any character moves over or adjacent to it. You and all allied characters ignore line of sight when making ranged attacks and tech actions against characters within the area, and gain +1 Accuracy on all attacks against characters within it. Hostile characters within the area cease to be Hidden, cannot Hide, and cannot benefit from Invisibility as long as they remain there. This area lasts until the end of your next turn; if you take the Scan or Lock On Quick Tech action during your next turn, you may extend the duration of all your detonated echo mine areas for an additional round. This effect can be repeated.

gray thistle
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Hm, that might not be a bad way to go

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Makes it easier to trigger by yourself or allies too as a type of setup for potential area denial

dusk arch
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right, that's what I'm thinking

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burst 3 is on par with athena but athena has less hoops to jump through and no limited charges and can be moved at will, while this remains static and gives you the arcing/accuracy bonus up front rather than waiting for the lock on

gray thistle
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Yeah, exactly. And no free lock ons which do fulfill a different purpose

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Some kind of iskander build would be able to do fun stuff with this

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Or putting this in a corner which would otherwise be a good hiding spot for the opfor

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Sunzi shenanigans too maybe

ashen parrot
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Honestly would've preferred it if this still provided Lock On to allow a more effective kind of support and a bit more effectiveness if you decide to not extend the duration for some reason (tbf an Action Tax is an Action Tax)

gray thistle
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Arcing, constant accuracy and the potential persistent effect on top of the anti-hide invis seems plenty to me. If this also applied lock on by itself it would become more similar to Athena. The accuracy bonus also just stacks with lock on if you do apply it. It would also give you less incentive to actually use the Lock On action yourself aside from extending the duration which would, imo, feel kind of bad?

ashen parrot
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Oh I moreso meant that it stuck around instead of getting replaced by just a +1 Accuracy bonus (unless something else did that in which case my bad)

gray thistle
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Ah, you mean if Lock Ons don't get "consumed" on enemies in the area?

ashen parrot
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No no lemme check something actually I don't need to

ashen parrot
gray thistle
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Right, but that leads me to my previous message

ashen parrot
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Oh damn, this being an Accuracy bonus that applies for multiple attacks in one turn isn't a thing I noticed, I'm swayed

dusk arch
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The Remote Targeting Relay off the Charioteer does give lock on for anyone in its area

kindred iron
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@dusk arch There is a discrepancy between CompCon and the Field Guide as of 67 days ago in the Gladiator feat. In some versions of CompCon it says that Gladiator talent cannot be used with superheavy melee weapons, but the talent in the book on page 110 does not say that. Which is correct?

dusk arch
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Well both of those mean the same thing

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because Gladiator's attack is a Skirmish

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SUPERHEAVY weapons are too cumbersome to use in a SKIRMISH , and can only be fired as part of a BARRAGE.

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That said, what version of the lcp are you using?

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Because this seems like an older version

image.png
kindred iron
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Definitely an older one, one sec let me check

dusk arch
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That's the current wording

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and I checked to make sure that's the public lcp and not my own internal testing version

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but the only thing that's really changed is the consolidation of the wording, not the actual effect

iron coyote
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I think the confusion comes from replacement language (do X instead) rather than enhancement language (do X and add Y)

dusk arch
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superheavy weapons can't be used with a skirmish

kindred iron
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Yeah I'm using an old one, and yeah that makes sense

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thank you for clarifying

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back to crying over doing that wrong for too many games haha

dusk arch
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and gladiator is basically an alternate skirmish, in order to prevent someone from double-dipping by going "I will Gladiator and then for a followup I will Skirmish"

kindred iron
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yeah no it totally makes sense

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and thematically regardless of mechanics it def makes sense to not be big unga bunga allowant

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cuz i think sword and shield not giant fuck off combat drill

crimson hollow
devout river
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In the uncharged mode

dusk arch
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Yeah the wording at this point permits that if you're of a mind to do so

amber crystal
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I've always wondered if Jun has a 'canon' mech in your head. I kinda imagined she'd pilot the Kallista the whole time.

dusk arch
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Kallista, yeah

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I actually mention this, though it was in a text update that probably sailed under the radar

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Standardization of the Kalista license incorporates additional refinements to the design's overall construction, many of which were personally implemented and tested by Jun Chandrasekhar herself, whose own gladiatorial chassis served as one of the early models from which the Kalista was developed.

amber crystal
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Yah, I did wonder if it meant she actually piloted Kalista or if it's just taking inspiration from her bespoken frame.

nova slate
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Proto kallista with at least 6 points in hull

amber crystal
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For mine, I plan just have Jun to grab a freshly printed, the most generic Kalista whenever she needs a frame, not that she'll be doing a lot of fighting now that she's doing her best to transition into a leadership role rather than a frontline. Still gotta show up sometimes.

dusk arch
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Yeah, she's skilled enough to pilot a lot of things but she defaults to Kalista and analogous mechs when possible

amber crystal
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So I'm thinking to make the next mission with the players the Grand Champions to try and deliever a supply convoy to SIF through the Chiraji Mountains as a gesture of goodwill from Jun to make peace with SIF, but the players might also have an alternate mission where they're trying to hunt down an important informant. This course of action is likely to set them against the Arclight, who has set up a massive anti-air defense network perimeter over the mountain range as part of a siege tactic. I wonder how receptive would SIF with the players coming?

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Basically, I wonder what's the primary ideological differences between C&H, Arclight, and SIF? I get the impression that Arclight is about being pragmatic, along the line of HA, while C&H is more akin to IPS-N with a gladiator flavour.

dusk arch
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So C&H is a pretty new manufacturer all told, and for the earliest parts of its existence it was basically a front company that existed to launder arms and equipment, it's just that afterwards it turns out other people liked the stuff enough to make maintaining it as an actual manufacturer a viable option. I go into this a bit in the newer draft

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Regardless of the veracity of these accusations, the fact remains that C&H has found itself in the unintended and unenviable position of being a cornerstone of Hadiqa's post-revolution economy through the sales of arms, and this has spurred a number of vigorous debates within the provisional government over what the company's future should be. Some argue that C&H should be nationalized, while others argue that its corporate growth should, if anything, be encouraged in order to bring in even more money with which to further the world's development. For the moment, so long as Jun Chandrasekhar and Mattias Herschel remain in control of the company then nothing can really be done without their approval, but Jun herself has little interest in actually managing a corporation, and over time even the influence of revolutionary heroes can give way to political pressures. It remains to be seen what the ultimate fate of Chandrasekhar & Herschel will be, and whether a company founded under revolutionary ideals can actually hope to retain them.```
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There's debate going on as to what exactly ought to be done with C&H going forward, whether it ought to be nationalized or maintained as a private sector manufacturer. Jun Chandrasekhar and Mattias Herschel call the shots for now, but Jun isn't really interested in running a company forever. Ideologically, she's personally sympathetic to the SIF cause and provides them with material support under the table in deniable ways which Arclight has protested, but Arclight isn't in a position to do much more than that

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Arclight is definitely pragmatic and goal-oriented, and so they aren't really looking to start a fight with someone like C&H (because that would undermine a lot of the hearts-and-minds work they've been putting in), but there's a definite limit to how much they'll give before pushing back, this applies to things like Union forces as well...if they can point to something as undue aggression and claim that they're simply defending their interests then they'll do so

amber crystal
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It's mostly Herschel's idea that C&H would talk House of Glass into using her mercenaries for the Grand Games and have the players win to become the grand champions under the banner of both C&H and House of Glass, so the players would become a pretty big political prop on top of their personal connections to the ongoing world events.

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As Jun's getting to the point, "I want to finish the Emir for once and for all, are you with me or not?" with SIF.

dusk arch
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Rylana Bosman also isn't above things like false flag ops or leaking a convoy's location to loyalist insurgent forces, though she herself is pragmatic enough to not jump to that sort of thing as a first resort, it's just that she's content to keep it available as an option in case all else fails

amber crystal
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Yah, I'm planning for the players to have to deal with her at a checkpoint into the Chiraji Mountains, and as the House of Stone has an alliance with Arclight and they already dislike the players, it's perfect opportunity to see if the players will just blow their path through, or if they'll surrender some of the supplies.

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Setting up an excuse to lockdown Chiraji Mountains Range had been pretty tough for Arclight, so that's why I have them form an alliance with House of Stone and the Boulder Company to start rooting out the SIF for once and for all.

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Not to mention Arclight wants to connect with the rest of the Union Space, so that seems about right?

dusk arch
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Re: the SIF, they don't exactly like the Emir either for obvious reasons but the situation with Arclight has pretty much forced them to focus on dealing with that. Even without that pressure on them it's likely that more isolationist sentiments would prevail on the whole but you could definitely find some independents who would be willing to take a more proactive role against the loyalists given the opportunity to do so

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Left to their own devices, the independent settlements' take on the situation would probably be to just find a way to hunker down and ride it out, though that's without any other inciting factors to push them one way or the other

amber crystal
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Oh, I definitely have some inciting incidents to push them.

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Such as a House of Sand informant seeking refugee with them while being chased by the players, and an Emirate attack somewhere.

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The informant will be getting a lot of attention from the factions in general, so there's going to be several powerful faction gathering at Chiraji Mountains, and hopefully that should push the balance enough one way or other.

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That said, I do wonder how realistic it'd be for the Emirates to take a town completely by storm if most of SIF's settlements are well-trained for attacks due to their experience with Arclight.

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🤔

dusk arch
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It's not outside the realm of possibility

amber crystal
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Probably the loyalists drilled their own tunnels under the cover of Arclight's artillery bombardments.

dusk arch
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the quality of the Emirate forces are a mixed bag but not so much of one that they can't, in aggregate, go up against the SIF, if they couldn't then they wouldn't be giving everyone else such a hard time

amber crystal
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Yeh, so a conflict between Arclight and SIF from the Grand Champions suddenly showing up at the doorstep of the Chiraji Mountains sound like plenty of distraction for everyone, the Cheshire Cats included.

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Oh, when you envisioned the Royal Palace and its destruction, how big of an area did you envision?

I had mine be basically an entire separate fortress separate from Hadiqa but close to the Karistal District, and after the bombardment everyone calls it the Royal Crater and uses it as a landmark.

dusk arch
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It is absolutely a landmark at this point, yeah

amber crystal
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Like I was trying to envision how big of Karistal District would be and how much of that can take a god rod without flattening the rest of the District.

dusk arch
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the bombardment that happened wasn't Wallflower-tier where a mountain got collapsed, but the palace still suffered a direct strike with a high-yield kinetic warhead, that shit is gone

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Hadiqa overall is a population of around 20 million, which is basically the population of the Tri-state Area

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the Karistal District is probably around 3-4 million of that

amber crystal
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That gives me a better idea, thanks.

dusk arch
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With Armament Redundancy soon to be a readily available system, I'm looking at adjusting the Crash Bars core bonus to both differentiate it more from that as well as from Blowout Panels, which shares some conceptual overlap with it
You reduce all damage from falling by 3, and you can also Brace to reduce all damage from falling to 0. Additionally, 1/mission whenever you make a structure damage check, you may reduce the severity of the outcome by one step (Crushing Hit becomes Direct Hit, Direct Hit becomes System Trauma, etc).

compact marten
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So basically making falling damage very much mitigated.

dusk arch
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That part's always been in place, but the ancillary effect was more specifically localized to just System Trauma results

compact marten
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Yeah, that makes it more worth taking, I think.

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Falling damage is already kind of niche, it's mostly a thing for fliers to worry about. Or really hilly or high maps.

gray thistle
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not getting a crushing hit is pretty sweet

drowsy coyote
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Kai there still isn’t an lcp for those new GMS weapons right ?

gray thistle
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It's in the new version iirc

drowsy coyote
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Oh yeah?

gray thistle
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At least, the one I'm using now

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I thiiink it's in here

drowsy coyote
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Ah it’s not an official one yet

plush hedge
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One funny albeit niche use for crash bars is pairing it with Jump Jets or Bioplating to leap great heights without having to worry about fall damage

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Jumping 5 spaces into the air puts flying NPCs at max-height just within reach of Hunter 2 throwing knives lol

gray thistle
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Nice

dusk arch
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Commuting a Crushing Hit to a Direct Hit is admittedly a bit limited in value, since once you're down to 1 structure it doesn't really do much for you. Even at its best, you're turning guaranteed destruction into a check versus destruction (still better than nothing). The big shift is turning Direct Hit into System Trauma or System Trauma into Glancing Blow

compact marten
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I think you could take it a step further. Prevents a direct or crushing blow hit and makes them a system trauma.

dusk arch
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I think I probably won't

compact marten
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Too much for a Core Bonus?

gray thistle
compact marten
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You know, that's a good point.

gray thistle
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Hmm, I could run some numbers on that if you want, but I reeeally doubt it's a big enough difference that the math matters too much.

Basically, what are the odds you've not used it in a mission before you get down to 1 structure.

dusk arch
compact marten
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Hm, yeah that's fair.

dusk arch
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I also agree that I don't think the Crushing Hit-to-Direct Hit thing is a huge deal, I simply felt like noting that it's not perhaps as dramatically impactful as turning a direct hit (stunned at best, destroyed at worst) into a System Trauma (give up some gear)

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this definitely isn't something I think should be saved until you're down to the wire on structure

compact marten
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It certainly feels like 'I'm about to be stunned, what about /no/.'

clever sage
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Are there details on Provisional Council members/factions of note aside from Jun or is it more of a blank slate? I seem to recall that there were pro/anti Arclight divisions mentioned.

dusk arch
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It's kind of a blank slate deal yeah

steel wagon
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For the Kangto mech inheritance, what happens if you take the Extrude gun trait from Pegasus?

ionic badger
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It does just as much as it always does presumably

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Which is to say nothing

steel wagon
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thank u

dusk arch
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pretty much

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nothing stops you from doing it, and it has the same effect it always does

gray thistle
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There's a few traits that do nothing, or are actively harmful. Choose wisely! :p

steel wagon
ashen parrot
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Does anyone have stats for each group for use with the FGtKTB's Faction system?

amber crystal
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SIF and the Emirates don't deserve to be there as far as I can tell, as they're both guerilla factions with fairly limited reach, but they def have potential to become a full blown faction if your campaign wants to go that way.

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I also imagined that C&H's dump stat would would be subterfuge, with Jun on the Might and Mattias on the Influence.

jaunty coral
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So, what happens if I put ARASKA on a Kidd?

dusk arch
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Is there a particular mechanical interaction you're asking about?

jaunty coral
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More or less, as the Kidd's Jolly Roger is an orbital weapons platform, and ARASKA requires an orbital weapons platform to use its Full Action ability

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Would one be able to use the Jolly Roger for ARASKA?

dusk arch
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Attempting to use it elsewhere has no effect without first establishing an uplink with other local planetary defense systems or their equivalent. the kidd's satellite is neat, but it is not equivalent to what you need to use rain of vengeance

jaunty coral
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Aight, spending downtime actions to buff the JR

drowsy coyote
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I think that could look like an extra core battery

hasty pulsar
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Entire squad of 5 kidds

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henshin their jolly rodgers

amber crystal
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If the players want to ride them to invade a base, ARASKA's mechanic is perfect for simulating a Sandworm rising up and eating a chunk of the base up.

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I think that's going to happen before ARASKA themselves is unearthed.

empty finch
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Might be a stupid question but a player of mine wants to know if the Chimera's Talon Drone benefits from core bonuses like the range increase from Neurolink Targeting?

lethal ridge
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Kai has said they are fundamentally still weapons equiped onyour mech, so would get +3 range like any other weapon

dusk arch
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To clarify, TALON drones are basically like pocket Ghast Nexus weapons, they are weapons which can be placed independently of you on the map, but fundamentally are still weapons and counted as such for all purposes. As Integrated Weapons, they can't benefit from modifications that specifically select them, you can't autostabilize them or put overpower caliber on them, but core bonuses which apply blanket effects do modify integrated weapons as well, such as Neurolink Targeting


Yes, Neurolink Targeting does apply its effect to Integrated weapons as it is a blanket effect and not specifically applied to the weapon or mount.```
signal cosmos
#

Let me know if this isn't in the spirit of the thread, but I wanted to ask for recommendations on siteps/npc comps to accentuate the Ogre NPC class in an encounter, either as a template'd up centerpiece baddie or otherwise

amber crystal
ashen parrot
#

On the flipside, you might like things to help sustain the Ogre, like an Artillery to keep the heat off of it, or a Support to wash off any debuffs it took

dusk arch
#

The Ogre is a rushdown melee striker, so in a lot of respects they operate in similar contexts to Assassins

#

or Ronins even, though the Ronin is a lot more of just a straight-up blender

raven rover
#

@dusk arch hi!! i really like the Reaper Dart, but wanted to ask just to make sure ... is it supposed to have less Evasion than the base Death's Head?

#

sorry for the ping, if that's inconvenient!! i just thought i'd go directly to the source in case there wasn't any published errata

raven rover
#

OH!!! actually! super scary idea! Cyclone Pulse Rifle instead of Railgun!

#

on a Reaper Dart, no less! it'd make the Engineer talent investment pretty worth it

dusk arch
# raven rover <@184370003892502530> hi!! i really like the Reaper Dart, but wanted to ask just...

Alt-frames frequently have different stats (to greater or smaller degrees) from the base frame for various reasons. The Reaper Dart has a lower evasion than the Death's Head but also has a higher Repair Cap, as since it's a more mobile sharpshooting platform rather than a sniper that's encouraged to hang back and fire from a long-distance fixed position, there's a greater chance that it will come under fire the base Death's Head might simply be out of range from

gray thistle
#

It is a bit odd, thematically, how the mobile alt version has less evasion than the immobile standard version. :p

#

But that has nothing to do with balance, ofc

nova slate
#

my very untrained eye tells me that the dart is almost a straight upgrade to the deaths head?

#

but also i really like it

#

and its flavoring

gray thistle
#

There's a lot the reaper has going for it, but it's not a straight upgrade

nova slate
#

i also really enjoy mentally planting designated chassis lance marksmen

#

incorporated into field teams

#

which i know i know, a deaths head technically could have been already

#

but it fits a lil better in my head with the reaper

gray thistle
#

Also wait... they have the same evasion. I'm just checking their stats again

#

So, some notable differences are less heatcap and no +1 to ranged attack rolls

drowsy coyote
#

Doesn’t it have 6 HC?

nova slate
#

but i get to sprint around with the AMR all willynilly

#

blam blam

gray thistle
#

reaper has 5

#

Personally I prefer the reaper too, but it's not a better death's head (though uh... the core is, imo, infinitely more useful)

nova slate
#

the ability to ignore ordnance might be the thing i hung up on or overvalued

raven rover
gray thistle
#

It might be out of date? I'm looking at the comp/con version of... 2.2.4_Test

#

Also what you just posted shows 10 evasion

#

Wait, oh

#

yeah that's odd

raven rover
#

the top image is the Death's Head

gray thistle
#

Yeah, I noticed just now :p

raven rover
#

i agree! it's really weird the more "mobile" version of the frame has less Evasion

gray thistle
#

Well it's 10 in the LCP which I think is the latest

raven rover
#

OH, okay - although Kai did just say it's supposed to have lower evasion, so ... IDK???

gray thistle
#

Yeah maybe that's an issue with comp/con, so consider kai notified I guess!

raven rover
#

@dusk arch see the above - the .lcp seems to have incorrect stats on Evasion (unless it is supposed to be 10, in which case the PDF itself is incorrect) for the Reaper Dart

amber crystal
#

Good to know that their evasion might be wrong.

dusk arch
#

in all cases where there seems to be a discrepancy with the lcp and the pdf, the pdf takes priority

dusk arch
nova slate
#

yeah absolutely, i didnt even notice on the first read

dusk arch
#

there are three rifles in the game with the ordnance tag, one of which is exotic gear

#

so in most practical terms what the Reaper Dart's trait shakes out to is "ignore ordnance with the AMR and railgun, or get some reliable"

#

Its evasion getting downtuned to 8 is a product of it getting higher base repair cap so it can afford to play a little more mobile, because I think the ability to more easily patch up some hull makes up for the evasion offset, and also reaching a bit into its traits, because "ignore ordnance with the railgun and turn every other rifle into a pocket assault rifle" is, while not overpowered imo, sufficient to merit a reevaluation of its stats to look for tradeoffs

#

the thing about the reaper dart isn't that it's fast, it's stable while moving which is a different thing altogether

#

if you've ever messed with a steadicam rig, you'll know that it's actually not the most nimble thing in the world

ember star
#

Welp, time to die.

swift mesa
dusk arch
#

It's funny too because I'm confident that if you asked the hardcore charop crowd "would you rather have +2 evasion or +1 repair cap" they would slam their hands on the repair cap button 99 times out of 100

ember star
#

I think outside if that I'd take the evasion though

swift mesa
#

Repair Cap is lowkey my favorite stat in the game (Something that becomes very apparent when you look at my design)

ember star
#

Don't need to repair if I don't get hit

amber crystal
swift mesa
#

The ability to just keep going as missions stretch out is fantastic.

dusk arch
#

the death's head is tied with the goblin for having the shittiest repair cap in the game

#

they're the only two corebook mechs with a Repair Cap of 2 baseline

ember star
#

Not like this

#

I just wanna do the funny neo dodge

dusk arch
#

even other SSC mechs like the Mourning Cloak or Dusk Wing have a repcap of 3

ember star
#

To be fair I should probably start dumping stats into hull if I'm playing deaths head

#

Or reaperdart

dusk arch
#

the heat cap on the reaper dart is adjusted mainly because of the possibility of freeform railgun fire

ember star
#

Higher or lowe?

dusk arch
#

it's lower

#

5 instead of 6

ember star
#

I haven't actually compared the stats, I looked at the "No ordinance." And my goblin brain activated

dusk arch
#

also because arguably the evasion down isn't, in a vacuum, really enough to offset +1 repair cap on its own

ember star
#

I do wish we had more sniper frames

#

I know it's a hard thing to make different from the others but I do like having options

amber crystal
#

Technically heavy artillery like Barbarossa is also a sniper frame.

#

You're just sniping with a giant cannon.

#

Samething with the best sniper frame of the game: Monarch, just for its consistency.

lethal ridge
#

I think sniper frame might be just about the easiest thing to do in the game, you can satisfy the basic requirement with heavy mount

amber crystal
ember star
#

Waves hands Different terms for me, I count those an seige frames flan

lethal ridge
#

Or even a main or so I am told

#

Smart gun lich is apparently a menace? Idk I never actually saw it

dusk arch
#

yeah the reason the reaper dart exists is mainly because sniper is an easy thing to do already in a few ways but people wanted something other than "pick a standoff range weapon, hunker down, shoot"

ember star
#

It was really nice to have considering I don't like being hunkered down in one place especially on maps where enemies are super mobile or there's lots of cover

amber crystal
#

Honestly I do prefer you to be more mobile, because I like my maps full of covers and LoS and enemies.

dusk arch
#

yeah

ember star
#

Because I tend to just become a "Avoid this area" instead of being able to suit things

amber crystal
#

Earn that shot.

ember star
#

And while that's nice I enjoy shooting things

dusk arch
#

and the reaper dart's sharpshooter trait does mean you may have to reposition more to get the reroll since you have to essentially be flanking to proc it, which is another reason I leaned a bit more on mission durability rather than evasion

amber crystal
ember star
#

I uh

#

Low key haven't been using that

amber crystal
ember star
#

Because I've been Rolling do well lmfao

#

So when I miss I forget it exists for a second

amber crystal
#

I think you rerolled like 4 times.

#

But you're also like barraging with all the guns.

ember star
#

I can't wait to get a chance to play my other characters idea, so I can use the melee frames in suldan

#

And the signature melee move talent which is really really catching my eye

amber crystal
ember star
#

Screm

amber crystal
#

(I'll work hard to make it happen, damnit.)

#

(Stop evading those kidnapping attempts!)

ember star
#

If Reika gets kidnapped I'd just play as Asoka, but that's not what I meant

#

I wanna do the technophile idea I had

amber crystal
#

But yes, the signature melee move is a lot of fun.

#

I need to get around to playing a character with that myself.

raven rover
dusk arch
#

Ordnance IS generally intended to be a pretty strict downside without a lot of workarounds and I was very clear that the Reaper Dart wouldn't just blanket ignore ordnance on all weapons because I'm uninterested in opening up that can of worms

raven rover
#

right

#

even still it's a very niche trait

quaint beacon
#

though honestly I also just prefer reaper dart's gameplay loop over the base DH's

#

reaper dart was made for people like me who hate the "stand in one spot and barrage" lifestyle

nova slate
#

Ironically, the design goal with the reaper is Little bit of what I want/ wanted to do with the Ranger swallowtail

#

Though Ranger maybe does the fade part of fire and fade better while the reaper does the fire part much better

plush hedge
#

I do really love the sort of “Strider” playstyle the Reaper Dart has

#

Mobile artillery is a blast

gray thistle
languid cosmos
#

I'd much rather have the repcap. I'm gonna take damage, I wanna be able to patch back up

gray thistle
#

more evasion also means you'll take less, so if you already have a sizable amount of repcap and a good evasion, more evasion will do more. Repcap diminishes in value the more you have of it, evasion goes up

languid cosmos
#

I'm not sure I follow how exactly repair cap devalues the more you have, since more repairs means I can fix more up after I get shot to shit.

lethal ridge
#

I'm pretty sure it works like this: it's not rep cap as a whole that is devalued, it's the increase in rep cap that decreases in value. it's possible for me, on average for a given gm/team, to end the mission with rep cap remaining. In which case me taking +1 rep cap is probably a waste? I think that's a reasonable position.

#

Whereas taking the +2 Eva makes me less likely to lose capacities mid-encounter (like, roughly/broadly speaking)

dusk arch
#

there IS actually a practical upper limit on how much repair cap you are likely to need, though this can fluctuate based on how long a mission is (three fights? four?), how hard the GM tunes things, how much of a dumbass you play like, etc

#

That said, it's not too common that mechs will generally reach the point of clear and unequivocal "this is too much" when it comes to repair cap, it's not impossible if you pilot frames with natural high repair cap and slam your points into hull, but I think the average PC mech probably isn't really going to break those ceilings all that often

#

plus having extra is nice padding for the occasional "someone took a bad Direct Hit and we need to pool repairs to dig them out of the hole" moment

lethal ridge
#

Yeah I think the stats are complex enough that there is generally no "this is literally always better for you in all possible cases right now" moments, there's just sometimes things that tend to be better (for varying values of "tend", which is sometimes quite high, like, Hull at ll0)

clever sage
#

I feel like I just have to mention that most of my players were in need of a fainting couch upon being introduced to Jun and seeing her official art.

dusk arch
#

That reminds me, there's another piece of art by Sky currently in the oven

#

I have high hopes for it

ashen parrot
#

So about Carriers

#

And their base weapon

#

From my reading, involuntary movement procs the extra damage effect, which is unlike Heavy Gunner which is what I'm guessing they're based on. Is this intended, or no?

lethal ridge
#

Post the wording for me Fred? But if it ain't a reaction it ain't a reaction

ashen parrot
#

It's worded like it applies a Status or Condition or just an effect (i.e. Nanowhip)

swift mesa
dusk arch
ashen parrot
#

Alright I think I'll run it that way then ty

lethal ridge
#

shoulder charge resolves before the triggering movement?

dusk arch
amber crystal
#

Good to know.

raven rover
#

@dusk arch regarding Duels - do Triggers apply, or do Mech stats to the opposed d20 rolls? i'm not sure if it's laid out in the rules as written

#

in fact do any mech bonuses apply during Duels?

dusk arch
raven rover
#

huh

#

yeah that seems like a weak point of things if i may be honest?

#

flat d20 is ... very swingy

#

and it kinda makes duelling just a game of rock paper scissors plus funny "how much is the swing of the dice going to screw you over", if that makes sense??

#

it also kinda leaves characters who ARE trained, who ARE capable, who are studied in the art of dueling or fighting 1 on 1, well .... bereft of any actual benefit that it would serve?

#

does that kinda make sense??? maybe it works better in play, but as it reads, it seems like it treats the characters like they're in a total vacuum in terms of fictional circumstances or positioning?

dusk arch
#

the alternative is "anyone who wants to use the dueling rules slams the max possible trigger modifier into it they can and now the GM has to evaluate difficulty of the duel on two axes, number of hits and enemy roll modifier, which probably results in them defaulting to a baseline of equal modifier to the PC, which means nothing has fundamentally changed much except everyone's numbers are slightly higher"

#

"maybe it works better in play" is actually the thing that I am concerned with the most, not really how it reads

raven rover
#

i mean ... that might depend on the trigger? someone who is using "apply fists to faces" might not be able to invoke it on feinting with a ranged weapon, as opposed to someone who has "take someone out"? which then adds a layer of "do you go for bigger numbers, or do you go for unexpected strategies"

#

i can try and get my GM to try it but i figure i should address these things in case they're relevant/of interest to you

dusk arch
#

maybe it DOESN'T work great in play, I don't know, I would be curious to find that out, but I have had way, way too much "this looks weird" turn into "oh it's fine" for me to really be concerned with capsule impressions

raven rover
#

my apologies i guess

dusk arch
#

Not really something you need to apologize for, I'm just laying out why it's the way it is

raven rover
#

i just figured i'd ask and contribute some thoughts since i like the content and would hope that it leads to improving it if it needs improving

earnest iris
#

i used the dueling once and it was a neat minigame

dusk arch
#

Having triggers be a limiting factor in what maneuvers you can apply it to seems like it would cause a huge number of arguments and frustration and it's definitely not something I really feel would add something I'm looking for in it

#

part of why the roll-offs are agnostic is specifically because I don't really want it to come down to arguments over "can I take Dueling as a trigger" or "I should be able to use X trigger for Y maneuver"

raven rover
#

i can see the inverse being an issue, where someone whose character would logically have some sort of edge or leg-up in a combat being upset that someone with virtually or seemingly no comparative skill gets a leg-up just because of pure dice rolls

swift mesa
#

I also imagine there's a certain amount of 'Every PC is capable of violence to some extent'. Every PC can do pilot-scale fighting and mech-scale fighting. Though I do understand if someone's character is expressly about being a duelist having some sadness there.

raven rover
#

true

#

but i can see the potential in either direction for argument and angsting over bigly numbers

dusk arch
#

even Lancer is not immune to that

swift mesa
#

I'll admit my personal leaning is 'Triggers don't apply but you can invoke your background if it applies' but that's just personal ponderings.

raven rover
#

background WOULD make sense and probably maybe be a bit less controversial

earnest iris
#

when I ran it i gave the player a limited number of Accuracy dice they could spend, to represent training and preparation for the duel as downtime

swift mesa
#

And I do 100% get why Kai did what Kai did.

raven rover
#

granted part of the gripe/concern is more rooted in the fact i think d20s are horrible unreliable meme dice

dusk arch
#

Something I gave some thought to back when I first put this together was, like, "do I want to have there be upgrades or some sort of duelist Build System or something" where you could invest points into talent-esque equivalents and it just felt like way, way too much additional overhead for a side-game thing that probably isn't going to form the cornerstone of the average campaign

raven rover
#

fair enough

#

maybe i'm overestimating the scope

#

i mean, if you REALLY wanted to have an ebic 1v1 G Gundam-type duel during a mission, you could probably just run it using regular combat rules, right?

#

this is more for formally duking it out

dusk arch
#

I mean, the thing is that ultimately I do not think turn based grid tactical combat makes for good 1v1

raven rover
#

they don't usually

swift mesa
#

Honestly, I'd avoid the Actual Combat Rules for 1v1 as that's not lancer's strengths and honestly make an Epic Duel a use of Power As A Cost.

dusk arch
#

that is WHY the duel rules exist the way they do

swift mesa
#

With the player and the GM barganing how much a victory of a certain sort is going to cost the player.

raven rover
dusk arch
#

that said, I also don't envision duels being a very common occurrence in general for a number of reasons, one of them is that a 1v1 means everyone else has to take five while the GM and that one PC duke it out

swift mesa
#

At a cost, sorry. One of Lancer's downtime actions that is 'You wanna do a Big Thing? Sure but the GM and you are going to work out How Much It Costs You'

raven rover
#

true ... it does kinda take away from the game

swift mesa
#

It's often used for 'mech got scrapped, need a replacement, have to call in favors'

#

But it can also be used for 'I want to push myself to a stupid degree and lose shit to achieve something beyond my usual capabilities'

raven rover
dusk arch
#

they are, broadly speaking, not really a thing I see happening all the time, but Suldan is a setting where mech gladiatorial combat is a big part of the culture and if a PC decides they want to participate in some mech fights that go beyond simply using Step Into the Ring as a downtime action, these rules exist to provide a more interactive framework

swift mesa
#

See: How many Gundam duels end up with one person taken out and the other person barely standing/missing limbs 😛

raven rover
#

personally (and i don't GM Lancer ... yet ....) i feel like a Downtime action to resolve a big story thing like fighting an NPC rival seems ... a bit anti-climactic?

#

i'd rather maybe do Power at a Cost to set-up an opportunity

#

and then maybe run the Duel rules for it

ashen parrot
#

Apparently the rider on the Termite's weapon is missing from the 2.2.4 LCP, just dropping by to report this

image.png
dusk arch
#

not in the available download, but I mean it's been fixed in my test version

swift mesa
dusk arch
#

as was discussed in the GM corner earlier (and may have prompted all of this) lancer by nature of the game it is does not do 1v1 personal duels well at all, it's not set up for it any more than XCOM is meant to be one soldier versus one alien

#

any sort of "you and you alone are fighting this one other guy" is going to have to be some sort of other, different conflict system, because otherwise your fight is going to be frankly pretty fuckin goofy when you accidentally pick an NPC mech slower than the PC who can then just endlessly kite them, or you have two equivalently ranged mechs just trading attacks back and forth like a JRPG

lethal ridge
dusk arch
ashen parrot
#

While we're talking about NPCs I'm curious - is there a specific reason why the Carrier's RMG has a rider effect instead of an associated reaction like the Archer? I find it interesting that it has its own niche (disregarding slippery moves and piping down EVA builds) but also think that it's a bit clunky in its execution (i.e. it not triggering off of involuntary movement despite the lack of that clause)

dusk arch
ashen parrot
#

Yea but why is it not a Reaction

#

...y'know I could've just asked that I realize

#

But yea, am curious as to why you have it where, say, Grappling & Wandering Nightmare doesn't stop this when they both stop an Archer

dusk arch
#

mainly because I didn't want it to be one

#

the entire dynamic of the archer is "this is the reaction heavy mech," and so counterplaying it with things that engage with reactions as a mechanic is an ideal outcome in terms of what you want to happen with a thing like that

#

the carrier isn't

swift mesa
#

You can't stop it by having a grapplemech go make friends.

dusk arch
#

also the effect of it, being a very cut down heavy gunner, isn't really worth being a reaction in that sense imo, it's 2/3/4 damage if you decide to clear the impaired

#

I don't really think it needs additional ways to shut it down, it's basically a nice little rider for an otherwise fairly plain weapon

#

it shouldn't proc on involuntary movement, and the wording will be adjusted to state as such

compact marten
#

I made a carrier size three to ferry around some mecha in space as a boarding ship.

dusk arch
#

The Carrier is probably the NPC that's been used the least, which is understandable since it's a bit of a niche unit in that it basically requires a certain force composition to really get the most out of

compact marten
#

I'm basically using it as an excuse of 'hey, this fast moving armored transport is carrying like three mechs that don't have space flight, shoot it down and it's a pain for them'

amber crystal
#

As an anecdote regarding Duels, one of my players had their very first Duel against an elite opponent with 8 hits' difficulty, and won with a single hit of their own left.

#

It was pretty fun as heck without feeling too swingy because of the RPS elements mixed with varying number of hits, as my player gambled on an Overpower against an Evade when they're down to their last hit, to rid the enemy of their final two hits in a move. They rolled a nat 20.

nova slate
#

Honestly the carrier is gonna come up a LOT more once I hit SR and more side missions for me. I love a dedicated armored transport.

Out of curiosity, when you initially imagined the carrier, did you imagine a bipedal mech, maybe some kind of quadruped, or a type of vehicle?

granite radish
#

I like putting the vehicle or ship template on the carrier tbh

nova slate
#

thats my instinct as well, tho on second thought, a mech with like... a backback of marines or a bunch of fastline connection mounts all over it is rather entertaining

granite radish
#

chicken mech with egg vehicles

hasty pulsar
#

Carrier is just an NPC Kidd

dusk arch
#

put legs on this

Stryker_ICV_front_q.jpg
nova slate
tranquil reef
granite radish
#

I got to try out foundry and seeker license 1

#

slapped a modular advanced combat rifle & seeker catapult onto an overcharge genghis and used it to help fight some rogue AI!

#

figured they were really cool and flavorful for a midrange sniper type

#

probably should’ve put opcal, optimized engineering and well or because ACR is special nanocomposite adaptation on the seeker catapult instead of the ACR but I’m having fun playing as the line trooper for my teammates

#

Lanny fren with MULE has been carrying me into combat :3

nova slate
#

Bah, no shouldas! You had fun check , you were reasonably effective check . You have achieved all potential shouldas

granite radish
#

also I had extremely good luck

#

I got two crits over several combats (usually I get a lot of misses during combat and the occasional crit during rp skill checks)

#

was fun to roll 20+ damage on an attack because normally I play as defenders or support :3

#

got me hyped to try and describe the critical attacks!

nova slate
#

I forget, does the acr have reliable?

granite radish
#

not to my knowledge

#

I've been using DRM which has 12 range, 1d6+3 kinetic damage, accurate and loading (with smart & seeking added on from weapon mod)

#

I did take the ole gms AR as my backup weapon because it felt fitting

nova slate
#

whew almost had me worried there xD

#

Ol reliable always makes for a great back pocket option

granite radish
#

yeah

#

especially since a witch almost hit me with the tech attack that causes you to commit friendly fire

quaint beacon
#

ACR is really good, I've run a hellacious toku that was basically built around minmaxing the DMR mode

#

did a lotta damage but had a very fragile loop that was pretty easy to disrupt

nova slate
#

Oh for sure, if I'm not committed to my rep as the reliable guy, I like the acr a lot

quaint beacon
#

reliable truly is the best tag

ashen parrot
#

Don't mean to imply a rush or pressure here but is there art for the Chimera yet?

hasty pulsar
#

Last I was aware Kai has not commissioned any new art for the alts

#

no idea if they plan to in the future

dusk arch
#

All Suldan art currently operates on a schedule of "when I feel like paying for it"

nova slate
#

hmm i detect no capitals and you didn't use the ™️ emoji 🤔 (im joking)

lethal ridge
#

is berserker drive usable after one sees the structure rolls

#

Or is it a "don't make the check" type beat

dusk arch
lethal ridge
#

yeah that is what i would have leaned towards. but i do think that "do not make" instead of "ignore" would be significantly less mis-interpretable

broken hill
#

So you can order on hit effects in any order you want. Is the intent of the on hit line of the blackjacket combat bow that you can position the on hit effect after damage so on kill they auto fail the save, or is the intent that you risk revealing even on the most basic of grunts?

dusk arch
#

They're both on-hit effects (deal damage, the save) and you can order those how you like, yeah

#

I'm not sure I'd use the bow to shoot grunts myself, but it works

broken hill
#

I figured, just wanted to check as you could negatively read it as "They died, so you can't have them make the save, so you are revealed." That seemed like a really cruel and unintentional reading.

broken hill
gray thistle
#

Come on Kai, only 3333 bucks to get one of your frames in the Lancer game 😌

#

I'll spot you 10% :V

dusk arch
#

while the thought of spending 3300 dollars to make everyone who doesn't like suldan mad is extremely appealing, I'm afraid I'm going to have to pass

nova slate
#

Wait why would it make people mad?

swift mesa
#

Some people really don't like Suldan

#

Like in a way that goes beyond 'not my cup of tea'

opaque crane
#

I think it's mainly antipathy for Kai for whatever reason, which then transfers to his project. Compounded by the fact that it's an extremely popular one, so liable to attract a larger crowd.

compact marten
#

Yeah

nova slate
#

i mean... f those folk i guess, but ok that makes sense

granite radish
#

wot that’s weird

opaque crane
#

Eh, it's something that happens when you're a Personality™️ in any given space. Law of large numbers says that at least some are going to be like that.

nova slate
#

It's not productive to name names or belabor the point, but I know of at least one drama prone group that's no longer on the server about it. -_-

Suldan is cool though

#

I'd love to really sink my teeth in one day with a new campaign

#

My current game just hasn't the real estate to go there

#

Unless it's the penultimate showdown location

gray thistle
hasty pulsar
#

technically if Ferrin spots you 10% it'd only be 3k :V

gray thistle
#

True! Though that money could also be spent on art

#

The 333 that is

broken hill
#

And really, what frame would you add if you had the money? Too many good choices.

nova slate
#

I wonder which frame would be the most Emblematic of the suldan selection

broken hill
#

Probably Efreet or Sagi, as those seem to stand out on first read to most people.

languid cosmos
#

I’d add Agrippa :)

nova slate
#

ironically my thoughts were either the kalista or the matador. I do love how we have different answers tho

hasty pulsar
#

Kallerani or Sagittarius imo

#

Well

#

Hm

#

Honestly from a thematics perspective it'd have to be Kallista wouldn't it?

#

Since you if you want it to be representative of Suldan it'd have to be a C&H mech, and Kal is the C&H-iest C&H mech

nova slate
#

i do like the kallarani a lot, but it didn't come to mind for more Suldan-y ?

#

i love that we have so many different answers

hasty pulsar
#

to be clear, "Kal" in this case is Kallista, the big ol' gladiator mech

ionic badger
#

Meanwhile I would have wanted to see the Pesilat most 😛

nova slate
#

pesilat is like my personal favorite next to the kallarani

#

i still would love to run one

#

(i play monks in dnd lol)

hasty pulsar
#

Pesilat is great

quaint beacon
#

if I were to force a suldan mech in hypothetically, it'd be pesilat for the unique gameplay loop, but agrippa for favorite bias

gray thistle
#

Kallarani, gimme that saboteur drone :p

nova slate
#

I'm just a sucker for multi mode or multi purpose weapons, the boarding pistol and shield cannon? chefkiss

ashen parrot
#

Efreet 10000000000%

#

Follow-up choice would be Kallarani since that seems the most likely survivor of a hostile takeover (cost estimate for adding all of C&H pls) and the Kalista since it screams "I'M FROM SULDAN" the most imho

calm river
#

Is the Kangto Endochassis meant to have 4 structure like any standard mech?

nova slate
#

I just realized with dust grave* and suldan, you can get a very silly babushka doll build with madrigal armor, a minotaur, and kangto

gray thistle
nova slate
#

Auto correct be killing me

calm river
ashen parrot
icy dove
#

Is this the right place to ask clarifying questions about how certain Suldan things work?

woeful tinsel
ionic badger
#

Combine them obviously 😛

#

Rasputin with extra layers

woeful tinsel
#

It’s turtles Matryoshka all the way down

harsh zealot
icy dove
#

Okay, so:

Efreet's Ibeji Echo:
Can you target the Echo with attacks and effects like any other mech and vice versa?

For example could you use an effect that usually only targets allies on yourself by routing it through the Echo?

gray thistle
nova slate
#

It's a core bonus, and there are some very strong core bonuses

#

Especially since most of the time, like 90% of the time, you won't be destroyed

gray thistle
#

It does mean you can do cool stuff with limited systems, lower hull etc. To get the most out of it

#

Or self-destruct

#

Flavor of it is just super cool too

dusk arch
#

The spatial echo is still you

#

And you cannot target yourself with things made to target allies

icy dove
#

So, the Echo is my Ally for the purposes of what affects it, but I'm my Echo for that?

dusk arch
#

No

#

The echo is you

#

In Lancer, you are not your own ally for the purpose of things that target allies

#

You cannot use a thing that says "give an ally X" on yourself

#

You create a spatial echo of your mech in a free space within range 5. This echo counts as yourself for the purpose of effects and abilities, but is otherwise considered a separate character.

#

"This echo counts as yourself for the purpose of effects and abilities"

#

You can't target yourself with things that target allies, the echo counts as yourself (and you also count as yourself) so you cannot use the echo as a way to bypass this limitation

#

It is separately targetable. It can be shot, it has its own little miniature pool of hitpoints

icy dove
#

So I could attack it with Qublade and use the Teleport.
But If I had Guardian we wouldn't be able to give each other cover?

dusk arch
#

That's correct on both counts

icy dove
#

I could Invade the Echo?

dusk arch
#

You mean invade it yourself?

# 
characters can’t target themselves.``` page 65
#

someone else can hack it, NPCs or allies

#

but you can't self-invade the echo any more than you can your own base mech

#

the answer to "can I use ibeji to cheese the restrictions on self-targeting and/or whether I can use things that are normally only usable on allies" is no

icy dove
#

Alright.

dusk arch
#

There's actually a whole little FAQ I have made up elaborating on IBEJI and its various interactions

📎 IBEJI_FAQ.pdf
compact marten
#

One of my players uses Ibeji very efficiently in a MOI Solomon.

icy dove
#

Oh, thanks. That's helpful.
My main idea for Ibeji is to combine it with House Guard and either Black Witch or Sunzi to provide a large area of protection for allies/teleport locations.

ashen parrot
#

Not a bad idea

#

Ibeji Enkidu I have a soft spot for personally

#

Especially w/ Gyges

#

Vorpal Ibeji isn't that bad either

amber crystal
dawn sedge
ashen parrot
#

Use Ibeji a few times (torpedoes, deterants, repositioning, etc.) and that 3 Heat lands you in the DZ pretty quickly

#

Once your Plasma Talons kick in you now have two 7x7 (or 9x9 if you have Gyges) zones of Death

#

Course one is pretty easy to shoot and kill but hey you've just made an enemy waste an action!

dawn sedge
#

oh. oh. OH!

#

I like it

drowsy coyote
#

Oh hey it’s my build lol

ashen parrot
#

It was the one with green tubes right?

drowsy coyote
#

Indeed

#

By Cosmixian

errant crane
#

for glide rollers, when i activate the system, do I move triple my speed in total?

#

2 x for the rollers, + my boost speed

dusk arch
#

Nope

#

1/round, when you Boost you can take Heat equal to your mech’s Size+1 to move up to twice your speed.

#

So when you boost using them, you move up to twice your speed instead of what you normally do when you boost which is moving up to 1x your speed

errant crane
#

Thought so

gentle forge
#

is a pair of Conscripts roughly the same "power budget" as a "normal" NPC? or are you intended to deploy just, loads of them, similar to Grunts?

ionic badger
#

Two of then are about equal to a regular NPC yeah

#

Their job is mostly being annoying and soaking hits

opaque crane
#

Grunts aren't really a "deploy loads of", though.

#

Since they hit just as hard as a standard NPC.

dusk arch
ionic badger
#

They can take a bullet for an adjacent ally, and draw attention through their panic fire

dusk arch
#

or, to clarify, the Conscript is a standard NPC, represented as a pair of bodies on the field

gentle forge
#

hm, okay
I was also gonna give them RPV cause 1) thats what these represent narratively 2) I figure it would work well with some of the other NPCs like a Scout and Demolisher who can throw out Lock Ons to mitigate the Impaired

amber crystal
#

Since it's a trait and the name's implication, I assumed it's the allied character that initiates the reaction, just wanted to double check.

dusk arch
#

everyone adjacent to the conscript gains a reaction called Block This Overhead For Me

dusk arch
gentle forge
#

mhmm, I'm aware
I'm confident my players can handle it, while also provoking an "ah fuck, you didn't" reaction

#

at least its not the similar concept Legionnaire NPC from Interpoint Station, cause that's four guys at once, so it'd be +20 HP

dusk arch
#

yeah I don't necessarily think it's a hard "don't," it's just something to be aware of since the conscript opens up multiplicative scaling in a way other NPCs don't

amber crystal
#

I do wonder if RPV conscripts works to represent unskilled but determined fighters at times just by being a tank that fails at almost everything other than soaking damage

#

I also wonder if such high HP conscripts would ultimately make the NPC comp more durable overall

dusk arch
#

well it'll definitely make Cannon Fodder better since every Conscript that isn't dead is a Conscript that can take another attack for someone else, in theory

#

In terms of damage output Conscripts are sort of "just there" and being permanently impaired isn't going to do them any favors

#

so I think my concern might be that if your NPCs can't deathball, RPV conscripts might end up in a spot where they're kind of a slog to kill but also sort of ignorable

#

panic fire is a solid debuff and worth the cost of admission

compact marten
#

I kinda wanna do Conscripts with Deathguard sometimes.

gentle forge
#

there's an engineer so every round the conscripts buy is another 4 kinetic on the field

gentle forge
ionic badger
#

I also love putting DetPacks on Conscripts
It's a great surprise if the players think they can just ignore the Conscripts

gentle forge
#

+1 armor and a big fuckoff drill or laser cutter

dusk arch
quaint beacon
#

detpack conscripts are instant comedy

#

I ran detpack conscripts in a fight with satchel charge termites once and that fight had so many explosions

languid cosmos
#

detpacks are the spritz of water from the clown's flower to just really cherry the sundae of the joke

hasty pulsar
#

I like to use 1 conscript in place of 4 grunts

#

mostly because 4 grunt berserkers is probably the single most nothingburger comp addition I've encountered to date and Wallflower really likes it for some reason :/

dusk arch
#

berserker grunts do cover a lot of ground quickly between a move, boost, and avalanche charge giving them 15 spaces of clearance on top of an attack

dusk arch
#

They're also as far as grunts go fairly straightforward, probably the closest lancer has to just a generic "mook" sort of enemy, even ronin grunts have that "they can deflect even if it kills them" thing going on but a berserker grunt is just a guy with an axe

compact marten
#

just a mech with a dream

gentle forge
#

it is kinda the equivalent of an exploder enemy in a video game
just walks up, deals a bunch of damage to you, dies

wheat beacon
#

does the attack that comes from forcing a reaction and missing from blade dancer count as a skirmish and if it does how would it interact with skirmisher 2

quaint beacon
#

doesn't say it's a skirmish so it's not a skirmish

rough dagger
#

wanted to ask since it's become relevant in my suldan campaign, but are there any ideas on where araska's casket would likely be kept?

amber crystal
#

You'll want them trapped somewhere that'd be very difficult to reach as their thing is that they're pretty much deserted or trapped with no help so far.

rough dagger
#

hmm, makes sense

#

a player pulled off a heroic check to get some info on its location; given the scale of the threat though I probably want this to be a multi-mission kinda thing

#

something like deep under the royal palace sounds like it could work

amber crystal
rough dagger
#

they dig into a tunnel and a horde of mechs are just standing there, waiting for them

hasty pulsar
#

"oh hey man, thanks for getting the door."

dusk arch
#

Under the royal palace could work and is probably the obvious choice, though you could argue that it being such an obvious choice means it's as likely to be located elsewhere as an additional layer of security through obfuscation. The Emir was pretty controlling about the defense network (to everyone's detriment it turns out) and so he could very well have secreted ARASKA's primary casket somewhere else which only he and probably Miranda would know about directly

amber crystal
#

I imagined tons of the Emir's automated security bots became activated all over the Crater after the Defense Net became unguided as part of the protocols, so nobody could really get close. The players had an encounter with some of them in the first mission and had to escape from them, so it's been a certain threat and nobody really want to get close to a giant crater full of them, that's how I've played it. I let the player did recruit the Egregorians to help hunt the robots as an Easter egg as that player and I play in the same Wallflower campaign

dusk arch
#

the crater is absolutely a hotspot of all sorts of shit, 100%

rough dagger
#

I was already planning on using the 'giant mech emerges from the rubble' plot hook

dusk arch
#

rogue subalts and drones, biological contaminants, it's also probably just structurally unstable as hell

amber crystal
#

Yeah that's how I've reasoned it as basically a "I'm not bothering" thing rather than a truly hidden secret

#

It's just that nobody is fully aware of ARASKA's existence other than the player losing the control of their drone, and a House of Glass' automated limousine carrying a team of gladiators into the high desert from ARASKA desperately directing whatever it could reach toward the Crater. The players started the campaign to replace the said gladiator team.

#

So I've been having fun with ARASKA as the unintentional mastermind that's been pulling the players toward them over time.

rough dagger
#

it was fun to see my players reacting to finding out that 1) an NHP runs the defence network and 2) it's slowly cascading

#

oh, and 3) the ominous unlabelled clock I set out from the start of the campaign was to track said cascading

amber crystal
#

And it's about to reach a breaking point where maybe the players will go, "Oh shit, we might have to go to the Crater soon"

#

Especially since ARASKA still can reach a killsat once in a while. Like my Suldan literally has an observatory dedicated to watching the Defense Net to know if a satellite is about to fire, whether it's empty, and if it's going to hit a populated area or the middle of nowhere

#

Coincidentally, that's where my players are heading toward now

rough dagger
#

huh, that's cool

rough dagger
amber crystal
#

I'll be frank I need to start using Miranda more

#

So far she's still hiding about time to peel back the veil around her existence

rough dagger
#

oh I'm definitely planning on using her

#

one of my players has some personal beef with HA, who I know has already touched ground on suldan

amber crystal
#

I'm definitely wondering if she would be someone who cares about ARASKA.

#

I'm leaning toward making her a yes.

rough dagger
#

I probably would too, just ignoring it might be too much, even for her

amber crystal
#

Yeaah, considering that I do get the vibe that she wants to make some things right again.

#

Though right now my Suldan campaign is at a bit of a mess at the current mission, with the players going on an aid delivery mission as a pretense to getting into Chiraji Mountains to hunt down a House of Sand agent, and Alia and the Cheshire Cats are not buying that cover story, all while their Janissary rival is following them demanding a rematch even in the face of ArcLight stonewalling her, and Boulder Company having captured (and torturing) Gabriel Huang as part of their alliance with ArcLight

rough dagger
#

that does sound quite messy

amber crystal
#

There's at least five factions involved in that hot spot yeah

#

I haven't even gotten to the HORUS cell which my HORUS cult leader is 100% going to recruit once they find out their existence

rough dagger
#

oh horus is involved too, that sounds very fun

amber crystal
#

I've been running Suldan as a politically chaotic story as I've combined it with KTB Faction War, especially once Arclight realizes the House of Stone is only helpful to their goals of an open Suldan as long as they align.

#

The said HORUS cult leader player made the sixth faction in the Faction War

rough dagger
#

I might take some inspiration from you then, actually, since I also have two players with backstories linked to the KTB and horus

amber crystal
#

She's been doing her job as the House of Sand's spy while developing an attachment with the lord of the House of Glass on Suldan... And her info got the lord killed.

#

Now she's still working for the House of Sand to hunt down a traitor to the House of Sand while plotting the House of Sand's complete and utter destruction.

#

I've hinted that Sandworms are involved as the House of Sand has a literal castle in the middle of the desert, protected by a controlled sandstorm.

#

And yes that player is a big Dune fan and so am I. FemmeHeckYeah

rough dagger
#

me, having been gifted dune years ago and still not read it

amber crystal
#

I'm just causally dropping Dune references eveywhere just like Kai has with Alia.

#

I'll say, I hope to make the House of Sand's destruction glorious, considering they have two players working for them and sponsored a third player while demeaning them despite them being the Grand Champions.

rough dagger
#

antagonising lancers? what could go wrong

amber crystal
#

Oh yeah, Gabriel Huang won a duel against a player by coming back from a 4-1 deficit and it came down to a tie breaking roll before he went to Chiraji Mountains, because he wants to win in front of his mother so he can go fight.

#

The noble hating PC actually respected him for that.

rough dagger
#

damn, I'd like to see a duel in action myself at some point

amber crystal
#

It's a lot of fun!

#

Remember the said Baroness character? They had their very first Duel, after the House of Glass Lord's death, against the banner company Les Fulgurite leader and current leader of House of Glass at the maximum difficulty and won by the skin of their teeth to earn the commander's respect permanently.

#

Another player pretty much did duels for three downtimes in a row to get an custom, self-designed exotic.

#

They'd have gotten it had they won against Gabriel, but they got it out of the Grand Games instead.

rough dagger
#

wow, very nice

#

one of my player's characters is into fighting (the first downtime he did was stepping into the ring) so I'll probably try to see if I can do something there

drowsy coyote
#

I forgot the ruling to this but if I hit someone with my Qublade can my ibeji clone switch places ?

gray thistle
#

Iirc you can choose which of you teleports? Hmm... not sure

quaint beacon
#

I've dmed kai this exact question and he's apparently ruled it both ways in the past so it's probably slated for the Big Ibeji Document

drowsy coyote
#

Yeah I recall both rulings as well so I got myself confused

dusk arch
#

"how does ibeji work with X" is a thing that's fluctuated a lot as I've hammered out a more consistent blueprint for what it does and doesn't do, in terms of the particular question based on how everything else works with it it's more consistent to say that it works that way (that you can combo the qublade with ibeji the way you would want to)

drowsy coyote
#

Thanks Kai

#

I understand it’s a cool and complex system

devout river
#

Ibeji and the Qublade are both very neat and weird bits of gear that have the potential for much fun shenanigans

dusk arch
#

Reposting the current working text-only version of the field guide, this is the version that has no images but has undergone a comprehensive rewrite in several respects, going over much of the setting info and revising it in places, rearranging the layout, and giving the mechanics a parity pass with standard lancer formatting

#

it also incorporates, as part of this, a number of player- and NPC-side adjustments which have been consolidated in a presently informal changelog

quaint beacon
#

agrippa heatcap buff bowserpog

dusk arch
#

as far as I know the agrippa was the only HA frame (taking first party content into account) to have a heat cap less than 7 and so I decided to put it up there for manufacture consistency

quaint beacon
#

yeah makes sense, I dig it

swift mesa
#

Yeah, lines up with their mechanical wheelhouse.

dusk arch
#

I'd keep it lower if there was a compelling reason for it to be a notable weakness or trait of the frame but there wasn't and I don't feel like it's gonna push things over the top on the support frame

midnight crypt
#

Agrippa my beloved

#

Already my favourite Suldan frame

#

Now favourite-r

nova slate
#

ooo, nice

#

any changes to the specializations?

#

(im lookin at the changelog at the same time)

#

ok neat no change

#

(players recently got access to em so i wanted ot be able to flagpost it if needed

dusk arch
#

or something else?

nova slate
#

yeah the the uh... yes, the speciality licenses!

#

i used them as a mid mission reward instead of an LL

#

they get a specialty license instead of a full LL increase

dusk arch
#

some stuff DID change with those

# 
Vayavya Missiles reworked, now a Hull save or be forced to land and Slowed EoNT; on a success, still become slowed, penalty versus non-flying targets removed
Scanner Charges reworked, Pulse Grenade no longer provides accuracy, instead scans all hostile characters in the area along with anti-stealth effect, Echo Mines no longer deal heat, size up from Burst 2 to Burst 3, now permit ignoring LoS for all targeted tech actions instead of just tech attacks, no longer creates a destroyable beacon, instead lasts until the end of your next turn with the option to renew via taking the Scan or Lock On actions 
Sirocco and Polaris wording adjusted, Loading tag added to both weapons for clarification on interactions with Roland Chamber et al
Tactical Webbing no longer destroys loaded systems if the webbing itself is destroyed, simply prevents their use until the webbing is repaired
Weapon Pod no longer destroys loaded weapons if the pod is destroyed, simply prevents their use until the pod is repaired, SP cost down from 3 to 2```
nova slate
#

ohh dang ok i missed the specifics cause i ctrl f's specialty

lethal ridge
#

Darn I could use that webbing change Right Now in a PBP game

quaint beacon
#

webbing and pod change is very good

errant crane
#

From suldan:
On hit, the target becomes infected with an ontological virus which lasts until the end of the scene. They take +1 Difficulty on all attack rolls and each failed attack roll they make causes them to take 2/3/4 heat. They may clear this infection either by passing a quick action Systems save with +1 Difficulty or by making an attack against another hostile character with an Improvised Attack or a weapon of their choice.

#

this hostile character would be allied to them, correct?

swift mesa
#

Yep!

#

'hit your mate'

#

Well, unless it's a weird battle where there's 3 sides instead of 2.

dusk arch
#

yeah, "hostile" and "allied" are always terms from the perspective of the side you're reading from

#

to PCs, NPCs are hostile, and vice versa

errant crane
#

would this only deal 1/2/2 heat to a character with HDA?

nova slate
#

not a practical question, but if you affect an ally, and they fire their veil rifle at you, does it cancel the effect?

dusk arch
nova slate
#

ohhh right

dusk arch
errant crane
#

gotcha

#

thought so

torn dirge
#

Would the heat from Scavenger Nexus' tech action count as self inflicted, or would something like Shahnameh halve it?

nova slate
#

hmm anything i need to know when using the nightmare npc?

#

or any Clever Ploys™️?

errant crane
#

would the nightmare's Fugue State work on a frame with heavy frame, colossus, or fomorian frame?

dusk arch
errant crane
#

so could a character with heavy frame just choose the movement and not be slowed/no reactions

dusk arch
#

NPCs with heavy frame (a demolisher, say) can choose the push as their "choose to be pushed or take +heat" choice and simply not move

#

another example is the Hive's Drone Barrage which is "the target chooses to be immobilized/impaired or to move 5 spaces in a direction chosen by the hive"

#

and as far as I'm aware, heavy frame mechs can 100% go "I choose the move which does nothing"

dusk arch
# nova slate hmm anything i need to know when using the nightmare npc?

the nightmare, per this discussion, is largely focused on movement and denial thereof, it doesn't do a lot of damage or even a lot of heat on its own, so that should be accounted for when working it into comps, and so I tend to recommend its use on sitreps more than deathmatches because in terms of structure/stress pressure it doesn't have a lot it can directly bring to bear

#

Inductive Talons shouldn't be seen as a chance to dive into melee so much as a sort of counterpunch for aggressive melee units closing the gap with it

nova slate
#

full transparency, i may be running it as a horror in dustgrave beat 10, since i felt the nightmare + horror template was kind of fitting

dusk arch
#

Liberation and Ephialtes Strain are probably its most memorable optionals and provide it with something approximating damage options, though neither are fully consistent or reliable

nova slate
#

liberation and superheavies, same sitch as pred logic?

#

its a reaction, therefore not a barrage, and therfore no no

dusk arch
#

yep

nova slate
#

hm at tier 2 i think Ephialtes is a definite use here, to pressure the super heavy artillerist, think talons will find less use against a 3 member party... I think ephialtes plus radiative thanatocode will be a nice fit for the horror created by a misbegotten madman

errant crane
#

wait I thought pred logic explicitly could fire superheavies

dusk arch
#

100% the opposite

errant crane
#

huh

#

interesting

dusk arch
#

Tom has stated that "force someone to shoot a gun" stuff (on both PC and NPC end) doesn't work on superheavy weapons as those require barrages to fire specifically unless stated otherwise

#

you can't make someone shoot a superheavy as a reaction, but the Sniper NPC with a specific ability that allows it to shoot its superheavy as a reaction can do so under those specific circumstances, or executioner can allow you to make followup attacks with a superheavy melee

#

but predatory logic or law of blades nope

quaint beacon
#

Liberation is a fantastic optional and the first time I playtested a nightmare, I basically had to screenshot the actual text of the ability because my players did not believe me when I told them what it does. 10/10 ability, would use again

#

nightmares in general though are just nasty boys

nova slate
#

The real question is if I want to run a nightmare veteran or not

granite radish
#

I got to try out the modular advanced rifle a while ago

#

was really fun when crit fishing worked out and I got to hit a boss with 4d6+3 damage (1d6+3 from dmr, 1d6 from opcal, 1d6 from nuclear cavalier, 1d6 from critting with crackshot 2)

#

slapped optimized engineering and nanocomposite adaptation on it too!

gentle forge
#

in today's session a player popped everest core and rushed ahead
so a mirage caught them in metafold shove and teleported them way behind lines
right in the middle of some conscripts, with detpacks ready

devout river
#

And thus they learned wisdom

dusk arch
#

hey remember when I mentioned I had some new art in the pipe

amber crystal
#

That reminds me I use a placeholder for the Arclight emblem still.

#

So far, so good, I had the Cheshire Cats passing off the works of hunting the Boulder Company to the players because they know the players need to save Gabriel, and the players haven't been in love with SIF so far, and neither about Arclight either. They have yet to meet Naveed though.

#

Been playing into SIF's extremist parts quite a bit, so one of my players can't stop trash talking them.

rough dagger
#

wonder if their assessment will change then

swift mesa
# dusk arch

I think it's the hat but man something about that art makes me think 'Fighting Game Character'

dusk arch
#

My visual reference notes for this one included Helga Sinclair from Disney's Atlantis, several genderbent Metal Gear Solid characters, and a splash of Modern Warfare stuff

swift mesa
#

Oh, I can see the Helga, yeah

#

(Man that movie had great antagonists. Fuck weird motives, we're just fucking Colonialist Vultures, that's a legit motive)

dusk arch
#

Which is basically Rylana's deal as well, as far as the various antagonistic forces go on Suldan (and yeah you can work for her if you're doing some mercenary-type stuff, but of the principal NPCs she's the one who slides closest into the antagonistic scale for most occasions) she's probably the least complicated, she's got a job to do and quotas to meet

swift mesa
#

Makes sense.

#

Morals don't pay the bills.

lethal ridge
#

Is that a revolver

dusk arch
#

Yep

lethal ridge
#

Of course

languid cosmos
ashen parrot
#

Does the Champion get to apply multiple marks with an AoE?

dusk arch
errant crane
#

I've noticed that the Commando form of the Advanced Combat Rifle, modular from the HA Foundry Specialty License is actually a better version of the GMS shotgun (strictly better, if not for the typing). Was that intentional?

toxic crag
#

Strictly better is an overstatement imo, because while it has better range for the same damage profile and threat, being a rifle it doesn't benefit from Vanguard; the talent that gives CQB weapons a lot of their power. Plus the DSAS exists lol.

devout river
#

Yup, and the GMS Shotgun is generally agreed to be somewhat underpowered anyway

quaint beacon
#

the main thing is that a threat 3 rifle is like

#

extremely awkward

#

I've made extremely good builds centered around the assault and DMR versions of that gun

yet to find one that's really worth it on the commando

granite radish
#

invent a weapon mod that changes type to cqb and increases threat?

opaque crane
#

Being able to give any weapon access to vanguard, with an increase in threat, would be... a lot.

errant crane
dusk arch
#

weapon typing IS basically a stat

#

in terms of "what does this let you do with a weapon's other numbers"

#

giving a melee weapon 2+ threat has a very different value depending on whether it's an aux/main weapon or a heavy/superheavy, for example

quaint beacon
#

yeah

#

a big part of the reason cqb weapons are so good is because vanguard is, frankly, a stupidly good talent

#

not that crack shot is bad, it just doesn't really mesh well with "medium range, threat 3 gun" in the way vanguard does

#

the commando rifle might be better than the GMS shotgun in a vacuum if you're not investing in vanguard, but "able to take vanguard" is a big part of the shotgun's power budget

#

(and also, yes, the DSAS exists lol)

hasty pulsar
#

Tbh I have long wanted a rifle talent that works better with play styles other than "static sniper"

drowsy coyote
#

HG gives me sniper vibes

#

Ngl

#

Especially with Gandiva

lethal ridge
#

It does seem to me at least that the commando profile is just kinda there to fill out 3 profiles

dusk arch
#

I'm pretty open to adjusting it some but I haven't really found the dials I like for it

nova slate
#

this is just a non-comment that I hope to one day play a kallarani and a pesilat

drowsy coyote
#

Both are cool

dusk arch
#

What I may do with the commando variant of the rifle is give it a special +1 accuracy on reaction attacks

#

fishing for vanilla statlines, I find myself uninterested in giving it Accurate akin with the others because I'm not sure where the dividing line on "the only difference between these two is 2 points of range and 3 thread" comes down, and other positive tags I'm not interested in either, so something a little more curated may be something that, if it doesn't radically tip the scales, at least provides something else

nova slate
#

question, where is the commando rifle pray tell? I just did a quick scan on compcon. Does it not yet exist?

dusk arch
#

it's part of the Advanced Combat Rifle package, it has three profiles

nova slate
#

hmm could someone point out the major tradeoffs with the nelson flight type? I can see its abilities differ, seems more interested in longer boosts to hit stuff instead of jinking around?

amber crystal
#

Just need to move 6 spaces.

#

So with proper spacing you can straight up Barrage.

nova slate
#

ah yeah that makes sense

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I suppose what im asking is how/what about it makes it an alternative if that makes sense

#

what am i trading from the nelson

amber crystal
#

Flight type in general has slightly better stats and free flight, but to do damage it needs 6 space of movement in straight line every turn, where as the normal Nelson only need you to Boost without consideration in distance, so flight type is more forced to keep moving.

viral wave
#

no Kraul tech for Flight-type

amber crystal
#

Flight Type still gets the bonus without Boost though, so you can do damage while Slowed.

#

As long as you're moving that much, it'll work with HDA.

nova slate
#

hmm so would it be fair to say... less positional flexibility for a generally stronger platform?

#

interesting interesting. ok

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I'd heard some folks who's opinion i don't respect say that its just a better nelson and I was reasonably sure it wasn't the case, but aside from vibes I didn't have a sense for the major differences

#

I imagine it might also, as a flying thing that likes to go in straight lines, more often have less access to cover

languid cosmos
#

Yeah, flying mechs are always gonna be more exposed

#

also of note, the stat differences are literally that the flight type ha s+1 eva, +1 speed, and -1 repcap.

#

it also only gets additional scooting when hit by attacks, not when it attacks

lethal ridge
#

I'm in a pbp with both flavors of Nelson and the flight type is definitely getting a lot of barrage+bonus damage in

nova slate
#

i do like the synergy with ramjets

#

that always felt like a compromise on the nelson

dusk arch
#

So my take when putting the flight type together is that positionally and mobility-wise it has a lot less innate flexibility than the base nelson which gets its shoot-and-scoot trait and doesn't have to move in straight lines for anything if it doesn't want to (ramjets not withstanding), and so because of this I felt that continuing to keep its bonus damage tied to taking the boost action along with everything else felt less necessary

#

flight, as noted, also has its own particular considerations like "this is a great way to have your movement restricted further" and "this is a great way to have zero cover unless you're doing weird poptart stuff on the ground level" and frankly if you're doing that I feel like you have better options than this frame like "any mech with a heavy mount plus jump jets"

nova slate
#

i like the idea of playing with hunter using a big ol base movement, leaping into the air and hurling some stuff

#

ah wait, when thrown do they count as ranged or melee...

dusk arch
#

I'm not sure my angle here was for it to be a "generally stronger platform" per se but to have different things it's better at doing in different ways

nova slate
#

yeah that makes sense

dusk arch
#

the "add +1d6 bonus damage" etc traits usually come with some sort of condition that has to be met, the base nelson has one which is basically deterministic to add and the tradeoff is that you have to specifically take an action, while a mourning cloak can (if the setup is right) ignore that and be able to just do a barrage + bonus damage, but if there isn't a nearby enemy who happens to be isolated in that fashion then you either have to do something else or spend some time making the situation right

nova slate
#

It feels more... direct? which is weird to say cause the nelson is very direct, but at least to me the nelson has a vibe of scoot/shoot/fight/scoot type stuff. Flight type feels like it wants to do stright line barrage and try and do a single pass

dusk arch
#

or the toku which also can just "switch on" but does so by going "I'm exposed now"

#

the nelson is the most straightforward of the bunch imo because its bonus damage is just "I boost" which you can do at pretty much any time (you aren't slowed or immobilized at least) but it's a direct action tax

#

so given that the flight type has less directly accessible lateral movement options (the only extra movement it gets requires it to get shot at to proc instead of being a thing in your hands) I decided to decouple the bonus damage from a direct action cost and instead put it more into a case of "you have to do this one particular thing to a specific minimum limit"

#

where a nelson can boost and do a one-inch punch, if you want to hit a guy with bonus damage then regardless of whether you actually want to move 6 spaces in a straight line or not, that's what you have to do

#

since flying means you move in straight lines anyway it's not INHERENTLY too far out of your way to abide by it in part at least, though being in the air brings its own considerations as mentioned

#

(also the bonus damage is still melee oriented which means that yeah you COULD just get an assault rifle and chill at range 10 but at that point it's kind of like why bother)

nova slate
#

i do like the idea of since barraging may be a more accessible concept for the flight type, you can play with CA3 as a core combo

#

shoot, then stab with accuracy and bonus knockback

#

though... it also occurs to me you could do juggernaut shenanigans to shoot+ram

devout river
dusk arch
#

"the flight type is just a better nelson" is not a position I'm inherently unwilling to entertain but it's a take I'm going to want to entertain in the realm of thoughtful critique and discussion and not just "this is dumb/bad/OP/etc"

nova slate
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it was delivered in the air of the latter, and the person speaking on it has a lot of poor faith takes; but it was a catalyst for me to come ask and take a look at it

dusk arch
#

yeah I sorta figured, oh well

dusk arch
#

big linear movement + barrage potential versus the base nelson's more flexible skirmish

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I'm not really sure how to assess the core power breakdown, the nelson's PMD is a power that lets it do a bunch of movement for a whole scene and my take on movement is it's incredibly useful right up to the point that it isn't, that it can be easy to hit diminishing returns with it but also within the context of sitreps and different map setups it can be a huge playmaker, so it's harder to look at it and go "this is X/10 good"

compact marten
#

When I had a Nelson player, it meant 'core is for playing the objective, hard.'

dusk arch
#

the flight type's power is probably unlikely to do a ton of damage unless the opfor happens to be lined up just so or you pull off a big dive right when everyone's clumped up at the start of a fight or something, and you get to force move someone in the process, and it's a full action

#

I would classify it as "neat, but not a thing that is probably going to really be a big gamechanger all by itself" as most efficient core powers tend to be

#

the fun note is that "You may choose a character you pass through or adjacent to during this and pull them to the end of your movement" can, if you wish, be used on allies as well as enemies (since it doesn't specify hostile characters for this interaction) so you could in theory use it on a friend

#

is that worth a whole full action to do? I dunno, but it's something you can do if you're of a mind to

#

and in terms of sharing more of my thoughts, while I'm sure I'm bringing my own biases into this my approach when it comes to adjusting a mech's frame stats (whether through alt-frame differentiation or just tinkering with stuff) is that things like repair cap + heatcap are almost always going to be regarded more highly by people super into "what is The Best" while things like evasion are not weighed so highly, and so in that regard the frame stat alterations are two positive bumps to things less often cared about and a downgrade to one thing which is very frequently cared about

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I view Reactive Verniers as, in a vacuum, less immediately useful than the Nelson's Skirmisher trait since whether it procs or not is entirely out of your hands, though it does combo nicely with Ace 1

#

so at that point I guess the main axes of comparison in terms of "is this better y/n" are:
1). flight versus no flight (a gimme, the answer is always that yeah flight is better than not being able to)
2). whether you think Jet Lancer is stronger than Skirmisher
3). core powers maybe

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"is being able to fly worth giving up Skirmisher and a point of repair cap and you can proc your bonus damage trait when slowed but only if you commit to a minimum of 6 spaces of movement each time you use it"

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"why does jet lancer also add knockback" because comboing it with ramjets is fun

quaint beacon
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kai's also mentioned this before, but hot take, I'd rather have base nelson's +1 repcap over the flight's +1 eva

#

having GMed a bit for a flight nelson, my take is that it's something that whiterooms extremely well but is a lot more grounded in actual, like, gameplay

you are not always going to be able to move 6+ spaces and still hit the guy you want to hit unless you're doing very specific builds with thrown stuff

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and then the act of flying comes with its own risks (basically guaranteeing yourself no cover, you HAVE to move every turn even if that would be bad for you or else you fall, if you fuck up an agility check after getting structured you fall on your ass etc)

#

flight nelson is good

not sure I'd call it a strict upgrade on base nelson

#

it is an extremely good platform for the tempest charged blade from dustgrave but also that one's not on kai lmao

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(and MC can already do the actionless tempest charged blade damage trait thing)

toxic crag
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Yeah the people who complain about the flight-type powercreeping the base Nelson are also the type to not use it anyway since it lacks a heavy mount.

quaint beacon
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^ lol

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true

nova slate
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oh yeah, no when i heard1 less repcap i kinda dismissed the commentary from a more informed perspective

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1 less repcap is less relevant if you're playing in 2 or 1 combat scenarios before a rest

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but thats not a standard

dusk arch
#

repair cap is also a thing that's more valuable for melee strikers (which the flight type is still) and using your cool flight means less cover opportunities which creates more potential vulnerabilities

#

4 repair cap isn't BAD, like it's not "you die to a stiff breeze" but the nelson is I believe the only IPS-N mech to have 0 base armor and so its main fallback in terms of resilience is having that solid IPS-N level base repair cap

#

0 armor and 4 repair cap is a combo you find basically nowhere else in IPS-N mechs and is the worst of both worlds in terms of "where does the bottom for these lie within the manufacturer"

languid cosmos
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yeah, the only other ipsn mech with 4 repcap baseline is Vlad, who's got enough other stuff going on to disincentivize getting shot, stabbed, or looked at funny

dusk arch
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vlad sets the floor with 4 but also has 2 armor, nelson has 0 armor but at least gets the 5 repair cap everyone but the vlad gets

languid cosmos
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2 armor and one scene per mission where it gets universal (within a certain rangeband) resistance

gray thistle
drowsy coyote
gray thistle
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Straight line is shortest path between a and b, I don't think you can just go up or down if that stops it from being a straight line?

hasty pulsar
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an arc is not a straight line imo

#

however I'd say an upward incline could be

drowsy coyote
#

Oh I meant about actual dipping behind cover at the end of turn

#

Not for the bonus damage

nova slate
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I always run it as ascending and descending don't cost any additional movement while traversing horizontally but I wouldn't let a player decide at the end of a turn where they are 3 up say they are at ground level

quaint beacon
#

you can parabola while flying just fine, yes

#

that's basically the entire point of jump jets, jumping over people

hasty pulsar
nova slate
#

Cause at least in my mind the alternative is also casually deciding at eot that I'm at height 11 and not interacting with the game till my next turn shenanigans

hasty pulsar
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Oh yeah absolutely not that

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I just think that like, killing your flight to drop seems like a valid, if situational, move

dusk arch
#

https://twitter.com/Naarugaa/status/1638541945319325697 so this isn't art that I myself commissioned, but the person who commissioned it asked for my input on it, so I don't really know what realm that puts this in, but this is a HORUS Chimera that got comm'd

Naruga - Commission Open (@Naarugaa)

Hydra variant going hot on Hercynia's surface!

How many of yall have played No Room for a Wallflower ?

#LancerRPG #ttrpg #Mecha

Likes

332

Twitter ·
junior prism
#

Well that's pretty sweet

nova slate
#

ooo

#

whats the chimera's vibe? More striker version of hydra?

junior prism
#

Basically, yeah. Gets accuracy with Nexuses, and you get two built in drone-shotguns, that work similarly to Ghast

#

Not actually cqb, just nexuses with threat 3, to be clear

#

It's a very cool frame, I kind of hope to play one eventually

nova slate
#

yeah i have a player who started out as a hydra player

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and i pointed her at it

#

rn shes in a liminal space flamel

#

but is doing a lot of nexus shenanigans

junior prism
#

Definitely has similar overall vibes to what the Solomon/Flamel license does, yeah

languid cosmos
#

i'm sure this has been asked before but does a friend reloading a stabilized CSSW trigger roland for you?

or if i have roland and reload someone else's CSSW, does that trigger it for me? i'm fully aware this latter reading is rather bad faith but i'm checking anyway to be sure due to wording of Roland specifically.

dusk arch
#

Assume that Roland Chamber is entirely self-contained within a mech's own weapons, basically

#

The wording, taken strictly as written, doesn't specify as such but the intent of the system is fairly clearly supposed to be applying the bonus to your own weapons and not someone else's

#

or to proc it for your own weapons when you reload a CSSW belonging to someone else, etc

gray thistle
rotund axle
#

Agrav Vane is, pretty cool

#

On command hover flight, no action cost too

#

The soft cover is nice too

#

And the downside isn't even too bad, for some frames it won't even matter most of the time

#

Also wait is its name a reference to the knight Agravain?

quaint beacon
#

I can think of very few builds that are actively okay with agrav's action limitations

#

no attacks, no tech, no saves shuts down like... a HUGE amount of stuff you can do to impact the board in a meaningful way

rotund axle
#

True, was mostly thinking about support and mine builds though

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Though supports also tend to use tech actions

quaint beacon
#

yeah even hardline support builds want tech for lockons and friendly invades

rotund axle
#

So... mine/deployable builds I guess?

#

Anyways, point is that Agrav Vane is pretty neat and I like how it doesn't cost an action to get in or out of

harsh zealot
#

(Assuming the mine triggering involves a save, which most do)

rotund axle
#

Well, the mine forces a save, but it's not an action that forces a save

waxen cedar
#

Is Agrippa's Bridgelayer supposed to work with Electropulse? From discussion on rules-discussion it would mean that any character standing on the bridge could be zapped, essentialy creating at least 18 tiles of aoe 2 energy damage

dusk arch
#

also bridgelayer also isn't unique isn't true

waxen cedar
#

oh, i suppose I have outdated version, though comp/con claims it's up-to-date

dusk arch
#

that may be an lcp issue, but per the actual document it's unique

waxen cedar
#

Good to know

#

Thanks, I'll go zap some bridges then

dusk arch
#

either way, electropulse does a whopping 2 damage and even if the area of coverage is substantial I can't say I really see this as being a massively overpowered interaction

waxen cedar
#

It pops a lot of grunts I suppose

dusk arch
#

if they all happen to go and walk near the one specific 3x6-ish part of the map yeah

#

you can also pay 1 SP for a caltrop launcher and have unlimited blast 1 zones of difficult terrain which do 1d3 damage to anyone who steps onto them

waxen cedar
#

Neat thing to have, the bridge is pretty versatile and I already was looking for a 1 ll something from ha for hydra for a core bonus so Agrippa's nice for that

amber crystal
#

My players just rescued Gabriel Huang, and they've debating about what to do with him as a rookie wannabe martyr. During the rescue combat, he Jockeyed to destroyed a Scout while an Elite Assault is right there with Underslung Grenade Launcher. Gabriel totally was going to try and Jockey the Assault too until the Lich PC teleported him out of the base.

dusk arch
#

man's got moxie

amber crystal
#

Too bad he has basically no self-preservation which is why the PCs have been arguing whether to let him stay with SIF (and probably get himself killed) or take him home back to his mother, as Genevieve's got a big payday for the PCs to make sure that he's safe, although not necessarily bringing him home.

errant crane
#

The nightmare involuntary movement does NOT provoke reactions, correct?

dusk arch
errant crane
#

so, fugue state doesn't provoke reactions, just to clarify?

#

second nightmare question, are inductive talons always a thing?

#

like, as long as the nightmare is adjacent, all tech attacks it does deal an extra +2 heat and get an accuracy?

dusk arch
#

1). no it does't
2). yes it is

errant crane
#

thanks!

#

yeah, I figured it was a risk/reward type thing

rotund axle
#

Was Enhanced Systems Upgrade not working with non-Invade tech attacks an intentional drawback or just something like "Eh, it doesn't mess anything up too badly, I'll just leave it be"?

dusk arch
#

because if it worked with non-invades it would make the "choose another invade option" part that much harder to adequately qualify to the reader and I would rather it be more consistently parsable than have to deal with the two or three player-side non-invade tech attacks that exist in the game, frankly

#

I'm not really sure I care enough about Last Argument of Kings and Osiris working with it tbh

#

or the minotaur full-actions

#

it's meant to be "here is a way to make your Invade action juicier"

rotund axle
#

Mmmm alright then

#

I mean, you could still keep the "choose another invade option" part of it, just allow it to be used with other tech attacks. At the very least, you'd be able to hit them with a Fragment Signal on a Full Tech

quaint beacon
#

ESU as-is is already an incredibly good core bonus, I don't think it needs anything more

nova slate
#

it does feel like its already more than good enough yeah

rotund axle
#

Fair enough I guess

#

That +2 SP is incredibly nice

#

Makes me kinda wish it was seperate from ESU, like have ESU as just the tech attack upgrade and have another CB that gives more SP

quaint beacon
#

a core bonus that gives nothing but SP would need to give, frankly, an obscene amount of SP for it to actually be worth taking

#

like +4

#

and even then it'd basically be the most boring core in the game

#

getting more SP, generally speaking, does not actually very often result in an increase in power

rotund axle
#

Well, looks at UniComp

quaint beacon
#

it gives you more options, which is good, but the action economy in lancer is generally pretty locked down

#

unicomp is literally fine

drowsy coyote
#

I think the only mech I’ve seen esu be maybe a bit too much on was the emperor

#

But in all other testing it felt so freaking nice

rotund axle
#

I mean, +1d6 damage is also pretty boring on paper, and yeah getting more SP doesn't often mean an increase in power, but there certainly are a lot of systems which are handy to have

#

Also, more options is extremely good

ionic badger
#

which is pretty iffy in most cases

quaint beacon
#

I can think of maybe two systems in lancer that I would actually take as a core bonus

rotund axle
#

Good thing that this gives you multiple systems then, since it's multiple SP, and the perspective I'm currently looking at it now is "I have no choice but to get a GMS CB, but I don't use weapons often nor do I hack" so the only real option is Superior Logistics which is, yeah pretty good

#

The inquiry was hypothetical anyways

#

But hey, options

quaint beacon
#

I'd wager that the number of builds that are forced to take a GMS core at LL3, don't care about guns, and don't care about hacking are pretty small, and superior logistics is there

ESU is fine, splitting it isn't necessary, the +2 SP pays for the extra hack that you're going to want to equip, and a core that gives straight-up nothing but SP would honestly probably be a trap option on most builds

icy dove
#

Personally, there's a number of systems I'd take as a core bonus if it also meant not having to go 3 LL deep into a License I'm otherwise not interested in.

quaint beacon
#

that'd be a bit more worth consideration, definitely, but also not really comparable

icy dove
#

looks at NHPs

#

no it isn't...but Asura alone is CB Worthy

languid cosmos
#

Thank God for exotic gear rules

quaint beacon
#

asura is definitely worth a CB but if I'm running asura I also want rsus tbh

icy dove
#

fair