#Field Guide To Liminal Space

1 messages · Page 15 of 1

past shore
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i couldn't remember where to even find the prohibition to check language cuz it's usually not relevant.

olive wedge
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Only just started looking at Liminal Space cuz I saw Zahhak in Retrograde Minis
Have now read Zahhak over fully
Seems really underwhelming, and I'm a bit unsure how to build it where it can stack up against other (at least official) licenses?
It feels a bit non-cohesive in parts
MANTLE and maybe Persephone are the biggest examples
"Oh boy, now that I'm grappling this guy, I can... overwatch threat 3?" It feels like it should have bonus damage, accuracy, or something while grappling, the threat 3 doesn't really give me any benefit against the guy I'm grappling.
Persephone is really really nice, it might be my fav thing in the license, but it also doesn't exactly feel like it belongs? Like narratively with the rescue frame thing, I get it. But "extreme altruism" doesn't exactly jive with most of the license. I do get it working with burrowing really well, but the personality doesn't feel right.

All that to say, does anyone feel the same? Has anyone played it or gmed it and felt like this? Has anyone tried tweaking or buffing parts of it?
If I were to change part of it, I'd probably just give MANTLE 3 threat and give it more damage or accuracy on grapples

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also feel like i didn't say it well enough
Zahhak IS cool as FUCK
it just doesn't feel as mechanically cohesive as official frames for me

sly onyx
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You run up to a guy in the front line and then you become a massive tower of pain, is the intended playstyle as far as I know

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Which is what Persephone and Mantle are there for- make a zone your enemies don't want to be in and your allies are still okay with ending up in

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You are also talking about changes to a book released checks watch two and a half years ago

olive wedge
steady halo
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the perennial question one must ask when talking about changing things:

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have you played with it yet

olive wedge
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I have not

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but honestly the more i think about it the worse it seems

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except persephone
persephone is a goat

steady halo
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okay we say this because the kind of theoretical analysis based on initial readings can be potentially useful but also these frames were playtested fairly extensively we believe and the "I feel like this is weak" is not useful compared to the actual play data of "this is fine"

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The Threat 3 on MANTLE doesn't significantly benefit you against the specific person you're grappling, but it is also the only way to overwatch in grapple outside of playing a Blackbeard, and also has pretty good range for a Threat 3 weapon

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Persephone plays more into your defender role, it lets you use your strong bulk and regeneration to give your allies protection from attacks and forced checks and saves

olive wedge
olive wedge
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here's what i came up with friend

"okay I have three ideas right now:
•Mantle:
-Give it threat 3
-change the trait so that when grappled it does ~1d6 bonus damage to grappled enemies

•Shrug System
-Replace it with something else

•Taser
-Let it shoot when out of charges"

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We both kinda hated shrug system lmao

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Just don't see the cohesion at all

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maybe like
tortuga's ll3 shield thing?

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also to be clear on the taser change, you can't stun when out of charges, then it just becomes a 1d6
which i think is fair considering it's a main not an aux

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also had the alternate idea of it being stun instead of immobilize, and giving it a save

steady halo
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okay our point here is, you do not know how strong or "cohesive" these options are, because you haven't actually played with them yet and seen them in action.

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any changes you would make would be uninformed blind guesses

olive wedge
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I mean you can say that
But I look at most every official license, and if I give it a few minutes, even if I original think like "damn that sounds kinda awful?" (napoleon) then i can think of how it can be pretty damn strong
and I have been thinking about Zahhak for like an hour+ and I don't see it nearly as much as like any other license

sly onyx
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have you played with any of those official licenses yet

barren pendant
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A big thing with the Zahhak is that it is nearly unmatched in 'Doing Objectives'.

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Being able to burrow and ignore terrain and become invisible with no limitations on how long you stay invisible means that it's nearly impossible for people to stop it doing whatever objective the mission needs.

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And makes it very good at escaping if it's getting overwhelmed

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Shrug is also one of the single biggest knockbacks in the game and you can do it to multiple people at once.

olive wedge
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very good points thank you for the insight

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objective is definitely something I had not thought much about

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With shrug, how do you see it being used?
I get that it's good knockback
but it feels weird having a strong knockback thing when I want to suffocate hug people

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also I see you're the OP, are you one of the writers/artists/designers for liminal space?
If so, huge props, this thing's cool as hell and I've barely delved into it yet

barren pendant
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Yep! I wrote a chunk of it. Not the Zahhak but basicly all of MOI.

barren pendant
# olive wedge With shrug, how do you see it being used? I get that it's good knockback but it ...

It's generally there as the 'rescue' part of search and rescue.

A) It's selective (So you can choose who it affects)
B) Characters can voluntarily fail saves.

So if your ranged/hacker friend is getting wailed on, you can position yourself so that both of them go flying and now your ally and the enemy that was up in their face are 10 spaces away from each other.

You can also use it to throw your entire team save yourself up the map first turn if they start grouped.

olive wedge
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HAH that's funny and sick
starting to see the appeal
zahhak really does a lot at once

barren pendant
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The general intent is that the Zahhak is a big frontline bully who can also do some objective running. You can beat on it as much as you want and, if you don't break anything permanently? Too bad, healed up for next fight!

The enemies have a scary guy who wants to dive your backline? Too bad, you grabbed him and you're still overwatching the area around you with your guns!

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The Taser is also very mean because remember: It's a CQB. That means Vanguard 3 exists.

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'I charge the Zahhak'

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'I taser you, you're immobilized. No you don't. Turn wasted. Go away'

olive wedge
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hah that's sick

barren pendant
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The core power to bury people also gives you functionally 'Quick Action: The guy you have grappled is stunned and taking damage until he gets free'

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Which NPCs with bad hull saves find very hard to do.

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You can also, if you want to go heavy on the self-heat, play 'Limited actions but fucking hard to kill' snake.

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As the healing requires you start and end your turn buried.

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So if you take the HA 'I max out at 1d6 overcharge'

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You can start hidden, pop out, take your action and then pop back underground for 1d6-1 (Since you cool one automatically with WURM) heat.

olive wedge
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oh shit yeah the automatic cooling is great for that

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man the zahhak just has so much for so many things

lapis sphinx
olive wedge
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i see forcing enemies to take damage and heat
but no cooling or healing from grappling

barren pendant
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Like a lot of MO&S things, the Zaahak is a little more grab-bag than a lot of mechs but those parts are good and do synergise.

nimble finch
olive wedge
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feel like im going crazy
could you quote it?

nimble finch
# steady halo okay we say this because the kind of theoretical analysis based on initial readi...

but yeah, this conversation is a good example why unprompted/untested feedback is often lightly discouraged - frequently, you're simply missing a part of the puzzle that's more obvious if you actually try out the thing you're working with, or if you come at it from a new perspective. if you're looking for what you missed, you're probably better off starting with "what am I missing" rather than "what did you tweak/this is what i think should change"

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you may have an outdated version of the LCP

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drivethru hosts all of the versions iirc, so double check you downloaded the most recent one

barren pendant
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It does, yeah

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Something I will say: MO&S does grappling in a very different way than the Blackbeard does grappling overall.

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You can see with both the Zahhak and the Kelly.

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The Blackbeard is grappling as 'You can't escape me murdering you'

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The Zahhak and especially the Kelly are 'Grappling as a Control effect'

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Stopping movement/limiting options

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The Zahhak's dream scenario is 'Hey, look. There's an Archer'

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Running up, getting him as New Friend

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And turning off all the archer's reaction tricks while the Zahhak continues to blast things

olive wedge
olive wedge
olive wedge
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I'd also like to say that like
Yeah I'd love to play this out and try it
I have no GM-ready friends
even if I did we're currently running a campaign already
and we still have to deal with the true BBEG that is scheduling 6 people to one event

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so like
Would love to
can't really

lapis sphinx
empty kraken
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hisses

empty kraken
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I think the biggest actual specialist is PHOENIX, who Shoots Gun

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Even then her gimmick is attacking both health bars

steady halo
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the Kelly is one mean motherfucker too

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Heavy mount aside it's positively stacked haha

barren pendant
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So to put cards on the table: The Kelly is heavily inspired by a 4e class. In particular, the D&D 4e Open Hand variant of the Fighter.

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Sorta like how Kai made his own mech based on the swordmage. XD

steady halo
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HP 8 Armor 3 Rep Cap 6 would be incredible even if it was hurting elsewhere, and it really isn't

barren pendant
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Yeah, it's big weakness is mostly the usual MO&S one of 'No heavy mount, not much hacking'

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It's pillowfisted but durable as fuck

steady halo
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frankly you can make Main/Aux Flex work when you just don't go down

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regardless yeah

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very much a Lim Spaces fan

barren pendant
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Yay

steady halo
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it was one of the things that inspired us to get into homebrew to begin with which is why our first project was originally three manufacturers

empty kraken
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Fools will say you can't make a mechanical identity out of having a grudge against Superheavies but I sure did it 😛

olive wedge
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For the sake of say, Lotus Projector, does Zahhak's "invisibility" get disabled?
In my mind, it's more about Zahhak being somewhat unreachable by being underground, but i dont know if that's what's intended

twilit ferry
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Anyone else here deploy a Warden alongside an Avenger?

Its fun

barren pendant
olive wedge
lapis sphinx
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Scouts have ground penetrating radar.

mighty magnet
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i had a plan to run a combat of three wardens forming a triangle at one point but then i read the ability again and found that it's not allowed (for good reason)

barren pendant
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https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vc2OCPKTB251a-UMevFYGu5s0S9ibPI53EzDzoIe6Pk/edit?usp=sharing As a bit of a gift to people - The mech that ended up getting scrapped from Liminal Space as I wasn't 100% happy with it/got replaced with the MOI Nimue.

Google Docs
MOI Monash

MAGNUM OPUS INTERSTELLAR MONASH Support/Controller A bulky, heavyset frame, the Monash’s name and look both show that it was not originally a Magnum Opus creation. The Harrison Armory Monash was originally created as a new frame to allow for legionnaires to be provided an unobstructed supply line...

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The MOI Monash/Merlin

lapis sphinx
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Can Supply Gate be used during rests?

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Also, I picked "you can bolster and communicate with Jammed allies" as part of a Core Bonus I'm designing.

barren pendant
karmic jewel
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our Lycan put a Chessmaster in Zugzwang

image.png
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pankrati slowed also stopped them from using Castling
which is lore accurate because you can't castle though spaces that would put the king in check

barren pendant
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Hah, nice

lapis sphinx
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Can the Charity take an addition Expanded Compartment?

empty kraken
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I suspect not but I'll be so real with you I'm not sure how the stacking works xD

barren pendant
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Rules as written no, as it's unique. Will it break anything? Nah, go for it. XD

olive wedge
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I was gonna ask a question about how Zahhak works because the LCP is different from the book but my question doesn't even matter because Zahhak is EVEN BETTER than what I remembered it being from my last read
thought it had to started and end its turn burrowed and grappled for wurm self repairs, and was gonna ask if that can be: start burrowed, end grappled
but it's just the end of the turn, sick

nimble finch
olive wedge
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i'll have to check yeah

olive wedge
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it was in fact old lcp

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my woes are over

empty kraken
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@olive wedge you may want to also look at HOLIDAY

It shares I identify as a problem with ZAHHAK

olive wedge
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not really my vibe for this character but a very cool license nonetheless

olive wedge
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On Zahhak's Pandora Intercept Targeting, do allies take the 1 AP kinetic damage?
Logically in my brain, they shouldn't. The Pandora is smart enough to target attacks strictly targeting allies, so it shouldn't be dumb enough to damage allies. But it seems like it's written to damage allies.

steady halo
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Based on the fluff and the fact it just says "characters," they do

empty kraken
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They do.

novel mason
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re: Unknown Actor, Copycode, Now You Don't, and such

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there's a weird quirk in the core book that might lead to unintended interactions:

  • the Hide action on p69 specifies that attacks and other hostile actions (including forced saves, Lock On* and other edge cases) break Hidden...
  • ...but the Hidden condition on p77 only specifies attacks and forced saves.
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normally this would be a non-issue, since the only way you can gain the Hidden condition w/o 3PC is by Hiding.

nimble finch
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no, there's first party ways to become hidden w/o the action already - the immediate ones off the top of my head are the specter NPC (prowl just makes them hidden directly) and the ssmr mist feathers exotic

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so the answer is the same as those things - and identical to the hide action. the core rulebook just has it organized in an odd way

karmic gull
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so i'm wrapping up another fight with dawn playing her medea and i just want to say if y'all ever make a liminal space 2, that girl would be just fine getting trimmed down a bit

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i'm not forcing my player off of her obviously just. that girl eats so many resources

barren pendant
karmic gull
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medea's very effective at cheating the repair economy in my experience, having very durable blockers that she can hide behind and blow up as 2d6+3 grenades

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that don't cost anything to refill to max between fights

barren pendant
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Yeah. I think if I tinkered with it I'd likely make them work on grunt rules.

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1 HP but they're not hurt by misses.

karmic gull
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also aeos drone is a pain the ass

barren pendant
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So a pyro can clear them out with a good puff of flame

barren pendant
karmic gull
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it's very good at its job!

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dawn just. loves to put it right next to my snipers and scourers and force my avengers to play forklift

barren pendant
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Yeah, I think it seems like I just gave it a little too much resources in my test concerns about 'this seems to run out of gas too fast' XD

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The original version lacked sheep and testers kept going 'Uhh...I feel like I try to do a cool thing and then I've got nothing'.

barren pendant
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I think it wanted either a notably shorter deployment range or to not have invisible.

karmic gull
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not being invisible would be enough i think

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as being invisible makes it much stickier

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it's fine for it to brutally counter snipers i reckon

barren pendant
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Yeah. That would be smart. There isn't current plans for any updates but that's some good feedback and I'll note it down for if we do ever do an errata.

karmic gull
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👍

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happy to harp!

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i mean help!

barren pendant
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Hahah. Right now most of my notes for errata are minor typo stuff but some balance stuff is also good.

mossy lotus
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Ah, the eternal problem of Creating™. "...but what if I fixed this?"

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Surely that won't go on forever.

empty kraken
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Tempted to ask ya to look at FIRE but tbqh my life is a bit ablaze

Hence the uh

Limbo

On that project

obtuse willow
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though doing a terran supply depot wall block with the factory was maybe the most "working as intended" thing I've ever done with medea

karmic gull
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correction: the map spawned a scourer with melt because that was in the opfor already :p

obtuse willow
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I didn't imply otherwise!

karmic gull
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you implied an implication!

lapis sphinx
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I have a question, as an aspiring homebrew designer. How the fuck did you playtest 30 entire mechs?

vale ether
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true actually

outer pelican
barren pendant
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Johnny Bignumbers - "I have full walled this section of my base"
GM: "This is an RPG!"

barren pendant
obtuse willow
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I love Medea to death

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Love me some death and taxes

barren pendant
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Yay

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one of these days work will stop kicking my ass and I'll get time to work on Ironleaf Foundry again ;-;

karmic gull
past shore
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still early days, but it does feel like Morgana's invades are maybe a bit too niche.
Agravain is a fun sidegrade from HorOS 1, but Vulgate having only 2 1/scenes feels a bit bad.
I really find myself pining for Safety Overrides, since it feels like it does the same things but a bit better, without 1/scene on either effect. Stripping Overshield is potentially huge though.

barren pendant
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To be fair, HorOS1 is also one of the single beefiest hacking programs in the game. It gave stiff competition in design.

karmic gull
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Horos1 would have been perfectly fine as a rank 3 invade

vale ether
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horos1 feels virtually required on all dedicated hackers so i dont think its fair to compare stuff to it, yeah

past shore
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I won't dispute that HorOS strong, but it does exist. TBH I only brought that example because it matches Agravain well, and I explicitly called it a sidegrade. (Both are 1 Jammed + 1 Forced Movement).

Vulgate is the one that seems more undertuned. Carmilla's Safety Overrides is so similar, but neither option got tagged 1/scene.

IDK if that's just from not wanting to break the 2-option pattern yet in early homebrew, but it could really benefit from a 3rd option that's not restricted, or take the 1/scene off of Treachery to match Reactor Override; just being QA-trade to remove plus the restriction feels like 1 weakness too many.

I think the big issue I have is that having almost entirely 1/scene invades combines terribly with Daemonology, unless it's supposed to bypass that. Carmilla/Minotaur/Goblin seem really necessary to get much out of it.

Still having fun, just something I've noticed in a few early games.

lapis sphinx
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The action isn't "Invade with the 1/scene option"; it's "Invade", and then you choose the option when you hit.

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That may not be the problem you're having, but a lot of people get it wrong.

mighty magnet
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Does ELF Sensor Array count as the Scan Quick Tech for Orator?

lapis sphinx
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No, but LIDAR does.

olive wedge
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Morgana's Clarent seems really really really strong am I stupid?

barren pendant
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It's best for 'get enemies off an objective'

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With the ocassional bit of 'nuke an immobilized guy'

olive wedge
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"Morgana I think we're gonna have to kill this guy"
"damn"

barren pendant
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There's a reason the art direction I gave @toxic jetty was 'make this the most final fantasy-ass boss fight of a mech'

olive wedge
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They COOKED
I think Morgana may be my fav frame art from LS
Wrath not super far behind?

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i think Lust is my #3

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I am LOVING working the LS foundries into the campaign I'm running btw
I'm plotting so much

barren pendant
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That's great to hear! We tried to make them interesting while still being 'oh yeah, you can see how these guys are not the Big Four'

olive wedge
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i really like the MO&S designs but i do not vibe with the art style and it makes me feel bad cuz they're so cool
If the foundries and art styles are kinds of drinks, MO&S (and a few from the others) are coffee
i simply cannot like it
i wanna
but i cant
morgana, lust, and wrath are boba milk tea 🤤

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Zahhak my darling child

obtuse willow
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the coolest thing I ever did in lancer was popping morgana core and summoning meteors over every enemy on the battlefield

olive wedge
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holy shit
you're a genius

barren pendant
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100% working as intended. Especially since that's always going to cost you at least a full reactor stress, possible more than that 😛

olive wedge
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wait what?

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is my lcp wrong?

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it says self heat 3
and she has 8 heat cap
i have 1.0.3???

barren pendant
olive wedge
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wait what?
I'm so confused
does the self heat scale with characters in the area?
That is the least clear mechanic i have ever seen in an lcp if so

nimble finch
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with morgana core, you get to pick a different tech to use on each character

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if you pick the same thing multiple times, you gotta use the tech multiple times - paying the heat repeatedly

olive wedge
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ohhhhhhh
we're talking about with core

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I thought this was a feature of clarent code alone and i was thinkin "where the hell does it say that?"

barren pendant
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Yeah, with the core. Which can be A Bit Silly

olive wedge
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Indeed

olive wedge
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Is Morgana's Pariah meant to be played like
"Hey how'd that guy get into our line?!ATTACK THEM!"
or just like
soft hostile?

barren pendant
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Soft hostile. A lot of support tools only work on allies, for example.

olive wedge
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ahhh

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that adds more context thank you

valid terrace
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The glutton is shockingly fast, that's all

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or whatever it's called. I just call it kirby

sly onyx
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Gluttony, with the DFG mechs all being patterned after the Deadly Sins

empty kraken
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Mech hungee

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Feed him meal of pilot

obtuse willow
past shore
lapis sphinx
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Okay, you're right.

past shore
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Honestly I think it’s just Daemonology so we’re probably looking at house-ruling it to work like Invade. Would be nice if one of the 1/scene’s wasn’t there but it’s pretty old content and all.

barren pendant
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Notably: They're 1/scene/target, not 1/scene.

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You can't tag the same guy repeatedly.

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You can tag multiple guys with it in the same scene.

past shore
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Yeah, but that’s still a pain with Daemonology

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Because anyone who got already tagged becomes immune to that option

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And so far Treachery has been a QA trade at best due to the timing and lucky Systems rolls. Doesn’t really feel like it needs a 1/scene vs the Carmilla’s similar Heat per turn option that doesn’t.

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Anyways literally everything else about the Ozy has been very fun, so don’t mind this bit too much.

lapis sphinx
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What Ozzy build do you have?

olive wedge
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Does the 1/round extra heat from Novahot proc the other part of Novahot, where they do AP energy damage equal to heat inflicted?

barren pendant
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Yes

past shore
lapis sphinx
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Autopod is such a a good weapon for Ozzy.

olive wedge
marsh snow
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why do megafauna not have the monstrosity structure table?

sage widget
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Super incredibly late to this conversation, but I was doing some reading to see if I add Liminal Space to my games- I noticed it doesn't say that on the Comp/Con but it does in the actual PDF.

Was there an updated version of the Comp/Con that I missed somewhere, or is that just missing? I noticed a couple discrepancies in the Solomon in particular that left me wondering what was intentional vs what was a typo. Another one being that the Goetia does burn according to Comp/Con and Heat according to the PDF.

nimble finch
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you may have an older version of the LCP - drivethru hosts all of the versions, so double check you downloaded the most recent one

sage widget
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I just went to check and it was the most recent version. I'm not sure what's up with that then, because I can't tell which its supposed to do- heat or burn.

vale ether
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usually the pdf is more accurate, since lcps are made later and are mostly copy/pasted stuff. i can confirm that the goetia is 5 heat in the pdf and 5 burn in comp/con in the latest lcp (1.0.3)

so assuming that the pdf is correct (i cannot answer that for certain since im obviously not iki), the pdf solomon has just been living with a very different weapon than in people's games for its entire existence, which is VERY funny to me

image.png image.png
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at least, assuming the pdf hasnt gotten a new version since release? i dont think it has but i could be wrong

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the wording on it is a little different too

obtuse willow
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I BELIEVE it's supposed to be burn since I remember play testing it and having it burn things but @barren pendant confirm?

sage widget
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I'd also assume its burn, since that would make a lot of sense for working with Soulstone as a synergy.

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But yeah, I only just grabbed the pdf and lcp so I'd have no idea.

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Same question applies to Solomon's passive about drone being immune to heat or burn. Same issue in Smokeless Fire.

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Though contextually, I suppose that one would likely be burn since I don't think drones can take heat.

karmic gull
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Drones take heat as energy damage

barren pendant
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Yeah that's supposed to be burn, sorry

vale ether
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good to know!

sage widget
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Ah thank you! I appreciate it!

steep hazel
dusky idol
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just confirming this is correct - the chessmaster's moves don't use the tech attack format and don't receive the tech attack bonuses used by classes like the witch?

image.png
barren pendant
dusky idol
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so the chessmaster would gain a +3 to the attack? that's quite a bit tbh

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there's a chessmaster optional that does use the tech attack format, but it gets +2? i'm a bit confused tbh

image.png
barren pendant
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Just checking you've got the most recent .lcp? We did a pass for some errors earlier, just checking it's not been sorted already.

dusky idol
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1.0.3?

barren pendant
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Okay yeah. That is the most recent. Sorry for that. It should be, going by my notes, +2 like Steal Comcodes.

dusky idol
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sweet, i'll edit it manually, ty

spare quartz
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After reading up on the Downfall Group stuff in the book, I got a question:

In their more known work, as an IPS-N subsidiary and corporate analysis group, are they known as the Downfall Group? Or is that more the name they give themselves for their anti-corpro work?

sage widget
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I read it as being their super secret name when they’re doing vigilante stuff.

lapis sphinx
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I came up with this observation before, and it's wonderful how the same basic concept can result in two completely different NPCs in both mechanics and aesthetics, but this comic would not leave my head until I made it real.

deluge_sorceress.png
barren pendant
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Maximum Dakka

barren pendant
lapis sphinx
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But from the names of some of the traits and systems, the other inspiration was Touhou. :P

barren pendant
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Oh 100%

lapis sphinx
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It's not the only time the two single sex hat simulator games have been compared.

barren pendant
#

It started with TF2 heavy but my ideas rarely remain a single thing for long. XD

lapis sphinx
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If anyone wants Sorceress sprites.

barren pendant
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Nice

lapis sphinx
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Mostly Vessel, with the guns from Wiz Biz.

barren pendant
#

My next set of NPCs has a pair that very much have touhou inspiration. XD

lapis sphinx
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Anyway, now I can finally sleep.

barren pendant
#

Seeya!

lapis sphinx
#

Little bit of a curse.

image.png
lapis sphinx
#

Also, I haven't seen anyone try to build around Legion yet. Here's my attempt.

-- SSC Monarch @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  SSC Monarch 2, HORUS Goblin 1, DOWNFALL AVARICE 3
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Overpower Caliber, Narrowband Targeting
[ TALENTS ]
  Technophile 3, Nuclear Cavalier 2, Skirmisher 2, Black Thumb 2
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:2 SYS:0 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:19 ARMOR:1
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:8 REPAIR:5
  TECH ATK:+1 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:6 EVA:10 EDEF:8 SENSE:15 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  FLEX MOUNT: Missile Rack / Missile Rack // Narrowband Targeting
  MAIN MOUNT: Sharanga Missiles
  HEAVY MOUNT: Gandiva Missiles // Overpower Caliber
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Enlightenment-Class NHP, LEGION-Class NHP, Javelin Rockets, H0R_OS System Upgrade I
lapis sphinx
#

It's got a good Skirmish that can be used just about anywhere, a good Invade with size 2 for better line of sight, and a non-attack system.

empty kraken
lapis sphinx
#

Thinking about 7, I'd say that, since it's 1/scene and requires an Exotic and an LL3 feature, I'd let them have it if I were GM.

#

Also, question about NAPTIME. If it's destroyed, and then it's repaired during the following rest where you also spend Repairs on, say, structure, does it give the bonus?

barren pendant
#

I'd say so, it's very expensive so it gets some leeway in order of operations

lapis sphinx
#

There's a small thing that I've noticed in the PDF. The "fi", "fl", and "ffi" ligatures override the monospacing in flavor text.

image.png
barren pendant
#

That's a bit odd.

lapis sphinx
#

What software did you use?

lapis sphinx
#

I assume this is supposed to be 3 cc_damage_heat?

image.png
barren pendant
#

Yeah

lapis sphinx
#

The LCP doesn't give the Phenex Drone resistance.

lapis sphinx
#

Anyway, I figured out that Mutiny Targeting System works really well with Autopod.

-- DOWNFALL CHARITY @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  HORUS Goblin 1, DOWNFALL LUST 3, MO & S CELESTE 2
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Narrowband Targeting, Overpower Caliber
[ TALENTS ]
  Vanguard 3, Spotter 2, Stormbringer 2, Skirmisher 2
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:0 ENGI:4
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:21 ARMOR:1
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:8 REPAIR:6
  TECH ATK:+1 LIMITED:+2
  SPD:6 EVA:9 EDEF:7 SENSE:10 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  MAIN/AUX MOUNT: Autopod / Nexus (Light) // Overpower Caliber
  MAIN/AUX MOUNT: Terror-Class Scattergun (Hydrostatic Induction Mod) / Pistol (CUPID Mod) // Narrowband Targeting
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Personalizations, Armament Redundancy, MUTINY Targeting System, Monomania
barren pendant
#

Oooh, that's fun.

empty kraken
#

CHARITY MY GIIIIIRL

lapis sphinx
#

There's sadly no one else with a Main/Aux mount in DOWNFALL, though I guess I could have made it a Celeste.

#

It's also a shame I couldn't fit Wristgun in.

#

But yeah, 1d6+5 Autopod.

#

I suppose I could do this for a 2d6+5 Autopod instead.

-- MO & S PHOENIX @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  HORUS Goblin 1, MO & S CELESTE 2, MO & S HOLIDAY 1, MO & S PHOENIX 2
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Overpower Caliber, Mount Retrofitting
[ TALENTS ]
  Nuclear Cavalier 3, Vanguard 3, Skirmisher 2, Walking Armory 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:0 ENGI:4
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:19 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:12 REPAIR:7
  TECH ATK:-2 LIMITED:+2
  SPD:5 EVA:8 EDEF:8 SENSE:8 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  Integrated: Fuel Rod Gun
  FLEX MOUNT: Helen-Class Rail Cannon
  MAIN MOUNT: Autopod (Conduction Rounds) // Overpower Caliber
  RETROFITTED MOUNT: Terror-Class Scattergun (Hydrostatic Induction Mod) / Wristgun // Mount Retrofitting
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Personalizations, MUTINY Targeting System
#

The main problem with this is that it doesn't have many ways to actually gain heat besides Overcharge, which is unpredictable.

#

Oh, if I replace WA with Spaceborn.

coarse mesa
#

You are probably aware of this already, and it's probably too much hassle to fix just for rainy reactionary island, but Imgur (where the mech portraits are hosted) has suspended service in the UK, which means the lcp has broken:

image.png
barren pendant
#

Dammit Terf Island.

lapis sphinx
#

Nimue with Monomania sounds absolutely hilarious.

lapis sphinx
#

I still love the Ferryman having Die. It's a Full Action Limited 1 system with variable effect, but it's dripping with flavor.

#

And its name being so simple is Chef_Kiss

barren pendant
#

I'm glad you like it. I wanted all of the 'centerpiece' NPCs to have a Big Limited 1 Trick that made people go 'Oh, fuck'.

keen atlas
#

Has anyone made retrograde mini style tokens for the NPCs in liminal space? it seems like something someone would do

olive wedge
#

there's a few in iirc:
Custom->Retrograde MFR
Zahhak, Rasputin, Lust, Wrath, Gluttony, Avarice, Acedia, Envy,

nimble finch
#

i don't think there's NPCs though, unfortunately, just PCs

olive wedge
#

pheonix, frankenstein, donner, celeste, solomon, ptolemy, nimue, morgana, medea, amakusa, and slotg

#

so most of em

#

unfortunately no Tepes

#

really wanted to see that

#

also i feel like the Wrath is a disservice, the 3-eyed design feels iconic, and it doesn't have that
relativelt simple photoshop fix at least

#

the zahhak is my favorite
i low key dislike the book zahhak
the retrograde is sick as hell
and im glad it is because mechanically it's my favorite frame

#

nimue might be my second favorite
it gets across how fuckin scary that thing is
original art is a little to cool to get the horror of it

mossy lotus
olive wedge
#

🤷 maybe
i dont intend to comment on its quality
the book design of zahhak merely doesn't jive with my mechanical understanding of it
the retrograde mini is a very different interpretation and I happen to like it more

#

I think I've also glazed liminal space art and mechanics, including zahhak's, several times before

#

i dont really feel a need to sugarcoat my taste

#

especially when someone specifically asked about retrograde minis

mossy lotus
#

I mean, what was asked was "do NPC tokens exist for this in Retrograde?", so it feels a bit disingenuous to treat that as naturally leading into what art you don't like.

olive wedge
#

blame the thought train then i guess
Minis-> list of minis-> one that is missing and i wish wasnt -> one that i think was done a disservice-> my favorite mini-> detail + why it's my favorite mini -> second favorite mini -> detail + why it's my second favorite mini

olive wedge
#

hehe this convo made me go back and reread some of my fav licenses
persephone and mordred are so silly
probably my favorite NHPs outside Scylla

steady halo
#

we r a sucker for the nimue sword

barren pendant
steady halo
#

main that hits like a heavy (iwrc) and you can do a big Line "slash"?
where do we sign up

barren pendant
#

Nice. It's a few nested jokes on a design front. The name comes from the Sword of Light, from Irish Mythology, a famous blade that turns up in several stories.

#

It's theorized by a chunk of mythologists that Excalibur is a version of the Sword of Light that became so famous it eclipsed the base story.

#

Hence turning up on the Nimue, the Lady of the Lake.

#

||And the big slash being a Fate Excalibur Joke||

steady halo
#

mhm, mhm

#

doesn't the sword thing also come up in ironleaf?

barren pendant
steady halo
#

right, right

barren pendant
# 
Champion's Blade
When the Airgead Barrow was first opened, within its halls a quartet of swords were found. These barrowblades at first seemed to be nothing but a hilt and would be too large for an unaugmented human to hope to wield comfortably even if otherwise. However, during the attack by a hunting megafauna, a young defender in an exoskeleton grasped the handle of one of the swords when her own rifle was knocked from her hand. In this moment of danger, a dancing blade of shimmering rainbow light was revealed as thin as the gap between life and death itself.

Attempts to store the swords for long have proven rarely successful, the weapons being found again and again when the desperate and the hopeful need something to turn the tide. The one exception to this is a single sword, locked behind powerful metastatic barriers and sealed with chains of hereticode in the vaults of Magnum Opus Interstellar, stolen during the creation of the Blink Gate near Milisea. Attempts to reclaim the weapon legally are stymied in Union courts by the Corpostate's lawyers but the people of Milisea believe that one day even that blade will once more be free to defend those in need.

Main Melee
Smart, 2SP, AP, Exotic, Devoted, Unique
Threat 1
4 Kinetic Damage + 1 Burn.
You gain the Heroes Grace Full action.

Heroes Grace
Full Action
You bring your blade down on a hostile character in Range 3, dealing 4 Kinetic Damage times your Devotion die and granting yourself or one allied character in line of sight Overshield equal to 3 times your Devotion die. The hostile character can pass a systems save to halve the damage. Then reset your Devotion die to 1.
#

With the MOI version being more 'murder things' and the IF one being more 'protect things'

steady halo
#

indeed, indeed

olive wedge
#

Nimue's so fuckin cool
didnt realize all the references it has

lapis sphinx
#

I just realized you could use Jealousy Lockout's Subroutines on an ally with a Smart weapon if you want them to shoot like a Witch or Priest with a Nexus.

barren pendant
#

Yep!

lapis sphinx
#

I have a question. Since Grandmother Autogun is unique, what is it supposed to mount alongside it in its Aux/Aux?

keen atlas
#

probably just any range 10 aux weapon.

#

depends on what you want

lapis sphinx
#

Narrowband Targeting isn't an action. If I have a Swallowtail with linked Bracketing Bomblets, can I order the on hit effects so that:

  • Hit with the first Bomblet
  • Autohit with the second Bomblet
  • Apply Lock On and Shred
  • Deal second Bomb damage
  • Now that the second attack is finished, deal first Bomb damage
#

If it were a free action or something, I definitely wouldn't be able to do that.

barren pendant
#

Order of operations is your choice when all the things are yours is a general lancer rule.

#

So yeah, Narrowband Swallowtail could do that.

uncut apex
#

Hey folks. One of my players, a chomolungma/goblin enthusiast, has given their character a backstory that would make her an auto-recruit for Downfall Group, but I'm not sure if there's much in there that would synergize with chomo/goblin. Any tips?

steady halo
#

don't force them to take DFG gear

uncut apex
#

Oh, I wasn't going to force them

#

I figured if there was something good, I might offer it

steady halo
#

fair n real

#

there are some invades we believe

nimble finch
steady halo
#

yeah Envy looks great

#

Envy has Mean hacks and Munin looks great for your Sensors 20

nimble finch
#

you could probably also give em access to a DFG core bonus (like, not a free CB but pretend they had 3 LLs in DFG for their next CB choice). not sure exactly how useful they'd find em, but the one that's "scan & lock on at scene start" is probably useful

barren pendant
#

Yeah, Encrypt is very much 'target support/controller goes and cries in the corner and comes on the envy.

# 
Jealousy Lockout Code Set
The concept behind this is simple. Take the target’s device drivers, and overwrite them with a corrupted version of a useless generic. If you can’t have it, neither can they.

3 SP
Unique, Quick Tech, Invade

Gain the following options for Invade:
Encrypt: Your target loses access to all non-weapon Systems and Traits on their frame until the end of their next turn. This can only be used 1/scene on each character, and only on hostile characters.

Subroutines: One weapon of your choice on your target loses Arcing, Seeking, and Smart until the end of their next turn.
#

Also: Of note to Mr Ace - His flight systems are a non-weapon system or trait.

#

An ace hovering at height 10 to stay away from stabbing eats 9 AP kinetic from an Encrypt as he just Lawn Darts.

#

Scramble from Lust is small but it's passive and it adds up.

# 
Scramble
Although the LUST frame is designed with instinct-level movements in mind, few other frames are prepared to have their movement controls turbocharged this way. By boosting specific receptors, they can cause their targets to involuntarily take steps on the battlefield before they regain control.

2 SP, Unique

Any time you succeed at any tech attack, you can also push the target one space in any direction.
nimble finch
#

it's probably particularly fun with chomolungma BCL? not sure if 2 -> 3 space push will always make a huge difference, but i'ts cool

barren pendant
#

If you use a lot of hidden or enemies with unknown systems, ELF Array is likely something that your goblin would like.

#

As it's just at tonne of action economy.

# 
ELF Sensor Array
Extremely Low Frequency detection arrays can detect the sound of plate tectonics three planets away. Do you really think you have a chance of evading THAT?

Gain +1 Accuracy on Systems Checks and Saves. 1/Round, you may Scan or Search as a free action.
#

1/round free scan or search is a lot of sensoring

uncut apex
#

ELF would make up for them missing the chomolungma

#

And the scan and lock on at scene start would.... Actually be terrifying with the team comp we have

barren pendant
#

DFG loves data gathering, hence all the scan and lock on support. Comes with the spy thing. XD

nimble finch
#

it's actually scene start, and then 1/round against a single reinforcement too :)

uncut apex
#

Due to having a Spotter and some really long range arty

barren pendant
#

Yeah. It was originally just scene start but we found it wasn't fun on scenarios where enemies stream in rather than being all on field at once

#

So now you also get a 'New enemy has entered the battlefield' warning.

nimble finch
#

its a fun little sidegrade to held image, i like that one a lot

lapis sphinx
#

Narrowband Bomblets is always a classic.

steady halo
lapis sphinx
#

Is Expansion/Inclusion Module supposed to be Unique, or can you take it multiple times to stack how many enemies are affected by an area attack?

#

I was asking because I was thinking about a Krakatoa Justice which minimizes (literal) friendly fire and takes advantage of gaining Threat 3 on it. I had 1 SP left, and figured I'd grab Personalizations, but uhh

-- DOWNFALL JUSTICE @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  HA Genghis 1, DOWNFALL WRATH 2, HA Sherman 2, IPS-N Tortuga 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Auto-Stabilizing Hardpoints, Heatfall Coolant System
[ TALENTS ]
  Vanguard 3, Nuclear Cavalier 3, Skirmisher 2, Engineer 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:0 ENGI:4
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:21 ARMOR:2
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:9 REPAIR:7
  TECH ATK:0 LIMITED:+2
  SPD:4 EVA:6 EDEF:10 SENSE:8 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  Integrated: Fuel Rod Gun
  Integrated: Prototype Weapon I
  FLEX MOUNT: Assault Rifle
  MAIN MOUNT: Deck-Sweeper Automatic Shotgun
  HEAVY MOUNT: Krakatoa Thermobaric Flamethrower // Auto-Stabilizing Hardpoints
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Expansion/Inclusion Module, Expansion/Inclusion Module, CHESS System, Armament Redundancy, Redundant Systems Upgrade x3
barren pendant
#

I believe you can take it multiple times but it's kinda difficult to get use out of that many instances of it. XD

#

So it's got a bit of a soft cap of 'how much is worth taking'

lapis sphinx
#

I figure I don't need Persos because it's already got 10/2 bulk, and this is funnier.

barren pendant
#

Makes sense

lapis sphinx
#

But yeah, 10/2 bulk and 5 repairs is pretty damn good.

barren pendant
#

Yeah, the Justice is a Bulky Mech, as it really wants to infight.

lapis sphinx
#

Also, hmm. The LCP can't add threat to ranged weapons on it?

barren pendant
#

lCPs are a little limited in what levers can be pulled, yeah

lapis sphinx
#

Shame.

#

Why does the Flamel not have a Flex mount in place of one of its Mains?

#

I get why the Carmilla doesn't.

lapis sphinx
#

It's possible I have an addiction.

-- MO & S DONNER @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  MO & S DONNER 2, SSC Mourning Cloak 1, DOWNFALL WRATH 3
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Overpower Caliber, Narrowband Targeting
[ TALENTS ]
  Hunter 3, Executioner 3, Skirmisher 2, House Guard 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:2 SYS:0 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:21 ARMOR:1
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:8 REPAIR:8
  TECH ATK:0 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:5 EVA:11 EDEF:8 SENSE:8 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  Integrated: Carrion/Chirurgeon Articulated Claws
  FLEX MOUNT: Fold Knife / Tactical Knife // Overpower Caliber, Narrowband Targeting
[ SYSTEMS ]
  CHESS System, Momentum Crash, Armament Redundancy, Personalizations, JACKAL Targeting Suite, Rapid Burst Jump Jet System
olive wedge
#

Wait so if you stack expansion/inclusion you can attack hostile charcters outside the zone?

#

that sounds somewhat easily exploitable

#

also how does one reach 6 weapons on it

#

oh nvm

#

nuc cav fuel rod, engineer prototype, main/aux core bonus

#

wait does all the guns count itself

#

oh and i forgot Integrated Weapon core bonus exists too
so if not for the cap you can hit 7

nimble finch
olive wedge
#

no im not thinking attack farther

#

im thinking attack the same guy on the edge four times

barren pendant
#

Nah, it will include the guy in the area but it doesn't matter how many times he's included, it will only attack once.

lapis sphinx
olive wedge
#

ohhh mobile comp/con looks weird i forgot Aggression exists

#

so without a superheavy you just need to get one more weapon

lapis sphinx
#

Integrated Weapon will work.

empty kraken
olive wedge
#

it's hilarious to me you can grab a mech with two base integrated weapons and then very easily add another one
that mf gon be lookin like the Gun Devil

#

I feel like I might be missing a little something
Total War's description makes it sound like Aggression should be able to be fired as a free action or something, and it seems pretty underwhelming as a Main CQB.
I'm not really seeing a benefit like that on it, am I missing something or is Aggression kind of just free padding for All The Guns?

lapis sphinx
#

I think it had a bigger purpose in an earlier revision.

olive wedge
#

i kinda remember that too

steady halo
#

it is if nothing else, a Gun without drawbacks, which is nice when a lot of your license weaponry has drawbacks or situational uses
it also has Threat 3, iwrc? so that's your Overwatch secured

olive wedge
#

true but it's a pretty mediocre overwatch
1d3+1, and i can't put another weapon with it

#

I'd like it if I could use it like
"This weapon can be used as a second weapon in a skirmish as long as the first weapon is the only one on its mount"
kinda freely turning a mount into a main/aux or heavy/aux
but "making" a heavy/aux is nuts
so idk

steady halo
#

it is a little underwhelming, and we'd probably recommend removal or rework for a developing project, but it's not useless in its current state

olive wedge
#

good points

#

Shockwave Cannon still does cone 5 on an overwatch, right?

steady halo
#

yes, but
Loading

olive wedge
#

ofc

carmine basalt
wintry gazelle
olive wedge
#

Lust: Frock and bone!
Sloth: Frock and stone!
Gluttony: Frock and stoned!

lapis sphinx
#

How does the Conduction Rounds mod work on the Ghoul Nexus?

olive wedge
#

I would guess that if you have it deal kinetic, it worms

#

works

#

and if you dont
it doesnt

lapis sphinx
#

Thinking about the Pistol/Wristgun combo. Seems decent for gun-slinging in a Flex or Aux/Aux.

karmic gull
#

My favorite part of that combo is you can order it so the pistol is considered the bonus aux attack, but fire it first

#

So you plink in for guaranteed damage to turn on the wristgun, where you load your (non-nukecav) bonus damage

lapis sphinx
#

You can't always do that, because Wristgun has only 2 threat.

past shore
#

Thoroughly enjoying the Ozy. It is so much fun to meme on NPCs with Damnatio Memorarae.

(I solved the “why not EPC” quandary by just running both. Agravain probably gonna get replaced with Safety Overrides over time, since “nightmare hacker” has proven extremely fun)

empty kraken
#

Ozyyyy

#

My most unloved son

past shore
#

It’s definitely loved by me and my squad. Maybe not as much my GM.

#

It’s a great fit for the extremophile weirdo ice giant-dweller I’m rolling through SotW.

lapis sphinx
#

I was thinking about Spotterpod Ozy. It gives you an automatic hit as well as the best hacking system in the game.

past shore
#

I’m kinda allergic to Spotter but it’s probably pretty good

lapis sphinx
#

Even if you don't use Spotter, you can still encourage other folks to use Lock On.

ionic river
#

if I run multiple vulcan gauss cannons can I have 2 active spikes online?

lapis sphinx
#

If I hit a character with a Hydrostatic Induction weapon, and then hit them with Purifying Code, do they take the knockback when it triggers?

royal shell
barren pendant
#

Hahahah

uncut apex
#

hey, potentially weird question:

You have an Envy with an allied Monarch armed with a Gandiva. The Envy uses Subroutines on the Monarch, removing Seeking and Smart from the Gandiva....

then on the Monarch's turn, it does a Lock On on somebody and shoots them with the Gandiva - does it ignore cover, or not?

It had Seeking. It then lost Seeking. It also have a rule that says it attacks as if it had Seeking.

barren pendant
#

Yeah, it's regained seeking

#

It's a bit of a runaround to go 'it lost smart but kept seeking' but it works

lapis sphinx
#

Can you use Famine Override and then War of Attrition on an enemy to unload any weapon? And if you do, does that mean they have to reload it even if they get rid of the Famine Override effect, like how you have to reload a Siege Cannon before firing with Direct Fire?

barren pendant
lapis sphinx
#

Also, this isn't a question, but even though it's not explicitly mentioned, Dustgrave hadn't come out at the time, and you said expliticly it's not compatible with that book, I feel like the Zahhak should be able to use the actions granted by Prospector while burrowing. :V

barren pendant
#

If you are allowing that, that seems reasonable

#

But yeah, duskgrave was really not in the 'planned things' list when the book was designed

lapis sphinx
#

Side note: I love the varying art styles in the book. They give me confidence to ask my artist friend for stuff that doesn't exactly fit the core book style either.

barren pendant
#

I'm glad you like it. We worked with a few artists like @toxic jetty and @tacit heath for it!

lapis sphinx
#

Heh. My pet artist has been having a bad year, so I may look to them for comms as well.

barren pendant
#

I'm very big on making sure artists get the credit they deserve.

keen atlas
#

Question about the Strikebreaker. There was a disagreement over the Union Buster ability and how it interacts with Dominions Breadth from Emperor. The argument boiled down to union buster only saying the character is not considered an ally, but doesn't specifically state that the affected character would be considered hostile so dominions breadth wouldnt damage them when its activated. Whats the rules as intended on this?

barren pendant
#

The intent is that it fucks up ally support, including dominions breath. Sorry, the Strikebreaker was written pre-emperor so the emperor's wording wasn't considered at the time.

past shore
#

Can Spartoi Blades benefit from Walking Armory or mods that apply to Ranged weapons? It seems like the intent would be no, but I’m not totally sure.

ashen raft
#

I’ve been talking with my group about running a merc game at some point, with one 3PP allowed per player (counting Blood Money pilot gear and Legionnaire as “core”), and one of my players is pretty interested in the Donner as his reintroduction to Lancer, he likes the idea of aggressive, brutal support.

barren pendant
#

Cool!

vale ether
#

Donner is fun

empty kraken
#

Yessssssss

lapis sphinx
#

No party like a Donner party.

lapis sphinx
#

Lil Nas X is a Rasputin pilot.

image0.jpg
lapis sphinx
#

Does Monomania need line of sight?

lapis sphinx
#

Does triggering a Daemonlolgy mine count as an Invade for the purposes of Scramble and Mircalla Multitask?

barren pendant
#

Yes but it's a Free action for Mircalla so unless the mine is triggered on your turn you can't really use it.

#

But you could boot a guy into your own mine and get the bonus there. XD

lapis sphinx
#

That's what I was thinking. I'd put it on a Chomolungma, which has forced movement.

#

Even without any other systems, I can combo a BCL mine into a Fragsig mine, so they're prone, slowed, and impaired.

barren pendant
#

Bad Day

lapis sphinx
#

Has anyone played a House Guard 3 Envy?

keen atlas
#

Hi there, looking for a clarification regarding the DFG Pride. The Double Charge core active says you make another attack using the same rolls on a different character. Does this include the damage rolls, and if so, does it include bonus damage like from lighthouse beam?

ashen raft
#

I know in Lancer you don't count as your own ally, but can you benefit from your own deployables/drones like the Camera Drone or the Immrama Lakeburst?

ashen raft
#

Also, after spending too much time today reading and comparing stuff, Nimue with both MOI core bonuses that affect cover, and a plain Carmilla are top of my "wish I could play this" lists

empty kraken
#

Carm eh?

lapis sphinx
#

Narrowband Targeting is stupid good and I want to use it in an actual game.

ashen raft
# empty kraken Carm eh?

It neatly fills the 'hacker that also fights' niche in a fun way, and I like just about every one of its systems

#

The weapon is fun, I like that a lot of its systems inflict choices on its targets, and Arithmomania and Mircalla are just so good

ashen raft
barren pendant
ashen raft
#

Ah, that would make sense.

empty kraken
#

@celest hinge BEHOLD

celest hinge
#

Hello, I wanted to ask a question about Carmila's Core Power - does the 2 difficulty on saves caused by tech attacks are on the tech attack saves (an enemy must make a system save or become x), recurring saves (this enemy becomes x and must make a system save at the end of its turns to try and get rid of an effect/an enemy can make a system save as a full action to get rid of this effect) or both?

barren pendant
celest hinge
barren pendant
#

Both

celest hinge
#

Thank you

ruby patrol
#

Hello chat

#

How hard do you think Celeste with Nimue systems and Claiomn Solais would go

barren pendant
#

I think it would go very well. Solais is some of the most 'bang for your buck' a main weapon can get.

#

Like ti's a hefty cost in 'takes an AI' + 'costs SP' but if you want something that puts a lot of oomph into a main slot, it's that.

ruby patrol
#

yeah celeste isn't the best frame in terms of sp...

barren pendant
#

True but you'll have some from general advancement when you hit LL5 (2 for Celeste, 3 for Solais)

#

So ti's not unaffordable

ruby patrol
#

but there is also one kind of interesting combo: i think feth fiada with core bonus for cover working for any attack in the world would do wonders for this frame's survivability

barren pendant
#

100% an intended combo, as the person who wrote that 😛

ruby patrol
#

xd

#

also i kinda read celeste wrong at first

#

queen anne's revenge was understood by me at first like "well i can still overwatch berserkers when they avalance... so what"

#

then i thought to myself "any movement which otherwise would not trigger such reaction"

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"DOES THAT INCLUDE INVOLUNTARY MOVEMENT?!"

barren pendant
#

If you run up to a Mirage and he goes 'Hahah, I'm teleporting away' you can insert your entire shotgun up his ass

ruby patrol
#

"meh frame without any specific quirks" --->"insane combo potential for this one"

empty kraken
#

xD

ruby patrol
barren pendant
#

It also expressly covers those various 'hey, this movement ignores reactions' that turn up here and there/people often call slides.

#

'I'm making a safe movement' 'no you're fucking not'

#

It makes the Celeste the D&D 4e Fighter, where it goes 'Hey, I'm up in your face and no there is no Easy Way To Escape'

ruby patrol
#

"he disengages" "who decided that"

#

and then ts proceeds to have hard cover even tho you're melee/hacking it while also having some random ass blinkspace part as its weapon

#

game mechanics ignorance maxxing

ruby patrol
barren pendant
#

Entertainingly: Another Liminal Space mech is actively based on the D&D 4e fighter. The Kelly is based on the 4e Open Hand Fighter.

ruby patrol
#

i wanted to build nimue but got kinda stuck with its focus on range 15 lock on action (while we have BW and Swallowtail) and we're exactly LL5

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so i was thinking of some ideas, like for example sticking solais on houdini mk1

#

but i wanted to be 1/2 and did not want to ask GM for that bonus from downfal...

barren pendant
#

Like the Kelly's Core Power was me basicly giving a tune up/having fun with the capstone Open Hand Fighter power. XD

image.png
#

Mixed with this

image.png
ruby patrol
#

but celeste is interesting. 1/2, bermuda which is basically kai bioplating without the silly jumping part, with peak survivability with feth fiada

#

wait gimme a sec to read kelly's core

#

it is hollyday alt right?

#

holiday*

barren pendant
#

There are devs who try to keep their inspiration hidden to come across as more unique and creative. I'm not one of those 😛

ruby patrol
#

wwe partner could you please not ban this video in my country sincerely thanks, lemme get my VPN for a sec

pt3Tyxg.png
barren pendant
ruby patrol
#

nah unlucky cant watch it

barren pendant
ruby patrol
#

hehehe

#

i imagine

barren pendant
#

SEAWORTHY Repair Systems gives Celeste a very high 'effective' repair amount. As a structure is 2 repair and heal to full is 1 repair so she's got a phantom 3 extra repair she can make use of mid-battle.

ruby patrol
barren pendant
#

Yeah. Feth is a powerful bonus because it's kinda heavy on the action economy to keep it up.

#

But if you're being checked by an archer or other high reliable guy it's often worth it

ruby patrol
#

celeste can pull off interesting dmg even while skirmishing because she basically can abuse the hell of that overwatch

#

like, duelist 3 and simplest ram after attack is already allowing you to shove that solais in their chassis twice (and imagine mod from caliban)

barren pendant
#

She's also got Main/Aux mounts, which can pile a lot of dmaage up on low armour targets.

ruby patrol
#

true

ruby patrol
#

sadge

barren pendant
#

Yes but you're fast and can shoot when an ally rams 😛

#

Teamwork makes the dream work

ruby patrol
#

so true

# 
[ LICENSES ]
  MOI NIMUE 3, MO & S CELESTE 2
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Sibyl Analysis Suite
[ TALENTS ]
  Hunter 3, Duelist 2, Scrounger 1, Combined Arms 1, Infiltrator 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:0 AGI:4 SYS:2 ENGI:1
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:11 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:6 REPAIR:4
  TECH ATK:+2 LIMITED:+0
  SPD:8 EVA:14 EDEF:12 SENSE:10 SAVE:14
[ WEAPONS ]
  MAIN/AUX MOUNT: Claíomh Solais / Paragon Blade
  MAIN/AUX MOUNT: Precognitive Scimitar / Paragon Blade
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Bermuda Propulsion System, Féth Fíada, MUTINY Targeting System, GLOVE OF SWIFT RETURN, Personalizations```

so far this is my cooking, glove of swift return is just narrative exotic (which is kinda useful in our setting, because if your are getting dragged out of your reality you can quickly return), scrounger is from suldan and just gives me some more reserves
#

now i just need to somehow get myself reliable knockback to get these sweet queen anne's revenge activations

#

probably it really will be caliban mod, also prooobably can get chess system (with nuclear cavalier) because solais can generate some heat

#

also isnt like whirlwind blade great on celeste

#

hydrostatic induction mod is interesting but kinda limits my options...

#

cupid mod would go hard ngl

lapis sphinx
ruby patrol
#

Hmm why exactly that?

ruby patrol
# 
[ LICENSES ]
  MOI NIMUE 3, MO & S CELESTE 2
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Sibyl Analysis Suite
[ TALENTS ]
  Hunter 3, Combined Arms 2, Duelist 1, Scrounger 1, Vanguard 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:0 AGI:4 SYS:2 ENGI:1
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:9 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:6 REPAIR:4
  TECH ATK:+2 LIMITED:+0
  SPD:8 EVA:14 EDEF:12 SENSE:10 SAVE:14
[ WEAPONS ]
  MAIN/AUX MOUNT: Claíomh Solais / Paragon Blade
  MAIN/AUX MOUNT: Terror-Class Scattergun (Hydrostatic Induction Mod) / Paragon Blade
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Bermuda Propulsion System, Féth Fíada, MUTINY Targeting System```
changed a bit to be more independent, when i imagine combos i can do with barrage...
#

scattergun-two AP paragon - claiomh knockback - again claimomh - two AP paragon with Hunter 3 again

#

anyway if nessecary i can maybe throw out mutiny and hope for the best

ashen raft
#

I was looking at a Nimue build that just cherry-picked other MOI licenses to get both Sibyl Analysis Suite and Environmental Analysis Module

#

Medea I was definitely one of the licenses, because Spartoi Blade and the Precognitive Scimitar are basically the same weapon, except you can also use the Spartoi Blade to trigger Centimane

#

Don't really know which I'd take for the other two levels; Morgana and/or Houdini?

keen atlas
#

Houdini has some fun tools iirc

ashen raft
#

Spartoi Blade also has some fun synergy with Nimue, since if you use your ability to melee at range from lock-on, you're eligible to get the Centimane bonuses

lapis sphinx
#

My Nimue idea has Monomania and Passive Receivers to preserve and acquire Lock On.

#

This also unlocks Narrowband Targeting.

#

It looks like this.

-- MOI NIMUE @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  SSC Mourning Cloak 1, DOWNFALL LUST 2, DOWNFALL ENVY 1, MOI NIMUE 2
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Overpower Caliber, Narrowband Targeting
[ TALENTS ]
  Hunter 3, Duelist 2, Skirmisher 2, Pankrati 2
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:0 ENGI:4
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:19 ARMOR:1
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:10 REPAIR:5
  TECH ATK:+1 LIMITED:+2
  SPD:5 EVA:10 EDEF:10 SENSE:5 SAVE:14
[ WEAPONS ]
  FLEX MOUNT: Fold Knife / Paragon Blade // Overpower Caliber, Narrowband Targeting
  MAIN/AUX MOUNT: Precognitive Scimitar / Paragon Blade
  MAIN/AUX MOUNT: Charged Blade / Fold Knife
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Monomania, Passive Receivers, Armament Redundancy, Personalizations, “Kip-Up” Gyro Enhancements, Wide-Area LIDAR Emitters x4
ashen raft
#

I can see why Narrowband Targeting is good, but it's never appealed to me because it's counter to how I use a lot of aux weapons, which is more for tactical flexibility

#

Esp on a Hunter build, when I want to open with it to lunge and close distance

lapis sphinx
#

Shattered Mirror Surface is worded, probably deliberately, like Vlad's Shrike Armor, which can cancel attacks from characters with only 1 HP. So if the Nimue was hiding behind hard cover, and an enemy with 1 HP moved up to where it had unobstructed LOS to it, would they die first and not break Hidden?

barren pendant
#

Yep! Grunts do not hunt the sneaky mech well.

lapis sphinx
#

Heh, hilarious. What if an enemy with 1 HP and a blast weapon that has knockback attacks the Nimue and pushes it out of cover?

#

I assume it only triggers after the hit, and thus doesn't cancel it?

barren pendant
#

Yeah. They have become error.

royal shell
#

Question regarding Sloth's Naptime, how exactly does the "you spend one repair less" come into play?
a) If I am spending 2 repair to gain 1 structure, do I spend only 1?
b) If I am spending 4 repair to gain 2 structure, do I spend 3 or 2?
c) When repairing a friendly wreck and I contribute at least 2 repair, do I spend on repair less?
d) If I am spending 5 repair to regain 1 structure, 1 stress and my heavy slot, do I spend 4 or 3?
e) When using Grease Monkey 1 twice, do I spend 2 or 3 repair
(was playing around with an Amakusa build, if that's relevant)

barren pendant
#

Otherwise it would very quickly end up providing a multiplier of your available repairs (Instead of 'basicly a free repair every rest')

royal shell
#

Well, it's 4 SP so there is some power budget, but thanks, that clears things up ^^

barren pendant
#

Yeah. 4sp might have been a bit cheap for 'half price structure and stress repairs' XD

royal shell
#

Well if you put it that way... xD

ruby patrol
#

okay so i got opportunity to try out my celeste build

#

it was insane ngl

#

i managed to oneshot enemy's veteran striker (one of hb templates)

#

if everything hits, this is enormous amounts of damage

barren pendant
#

MO&S makes a lot do with basic parts

ruby patrol
#

well random enemy just received 7 attacks in a turn, each one of them was AP, 5 gazillion burn...

#

this combo potential is just undeniable

#

i just barraged them...

empty kraken
#

I take it we're enjoying the tiny girl then

lapis sphinx
#

Once I get home, I think I'm going to try writing up a Wrath with Railgun.

#

EIC and CHESS are obvious.

#

I think also Mag Clamps and Tactician 2 for offseting the difficulty.

lapis sphinx
#

It'd look something like this.

-- DOWNFALL WRATH @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  MOI MORGANA 1, DOWNFALL WRATH 2, SSC Death’s Head 3
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Auto-Stabilizing Hardpoints, Integrated Weapon
[ TALENTS ]
  Vanguard 3, Tactician 2, Combined Arms 2, Gunslinger 1, Heavy Gunner 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:0 ENGI:4
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:22 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:10 REPAIR:6
  TECH ATK:0 LIMITED:+2
  SPD:5 EVA:10 EDEF:6 SENSE:5 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  Integrated: Aggression
  Integrated: All The Guns
  INTEGRATED WEAPON: Nexus (Light)
  MAIN MOUNT: Firebrand
  MAIN MOUNT: Blazer SMG
  HEAVY MOUNT: Railgun // Auto-Stabilizing Hardpoints
[ SYSTEMS ]
  CHESS System, Expansion/Inclusion Module, High-Stress Mag Clamps, Personalizations, Armament Redundancy, Kinetic Compensator
barren pendant
#

https://ko-fi.com/moiderah/ Hey, so @toxic jetty, one of the primary artists for Liminal Space is dealing with some medical bills. They have been an absolute wonder to work with and are a great person so I just wanted to put this out here for anyone that's really enjoyed liminal space, even a couple of bucks helps a lot.

Ko-fi
Support Moiderah

I do illustrations, character designs, comics and everything in-between!

ruby patrol
#

I've got some questions
Is Northwest Passage (Celeste's core active) bonus damage halved because of basically fact you target several enemies, or not because each Skirmish from it is considered to be separate?
Is that same bonus damage applied to both attacks from Skirmish (considering Main/Aux)
How does Overwhelm Inhibitors(mod frfom Acedia) function with Bellringer(Holiday 2 full action reeling shot)

barren pendant
#

Each skirmish is seperate for the prupsoe of bonus damage there. However, you only get bonus damage on one of the main/aux attacks as secondary shots never get bonus damage.

ruby patrol
#

Oooh, makes sense, so I still did everything correctly... to some extent

#

i keep forgetting about bonus damage rules

ashen raft
#

If I'm understanding the Jack right, Terrorize benefit lasts until end of combat or target death, but the initial debuff is just one round?

barren pendant
#

You get an initial debuff and a persistant mark

#

It's to make spending the initial action feel pretty solid/let you do some control at range as you approach

ashen raft
#

I really like the origin, just the worst

barren pendant
#

It's based off a real event!

ashen raft
#

It sounded like it was, what was it?

barren pendant
#

Son of Whyachi in Battlebots. Basicly: Because walking is just bad in terms of weight effeciency, walkers got some extra weight to play with to try and broaden the bots being seen from just rollers/spinners.

#

Son of Whyachi figured a way to have a mobility system that was technically walking (Those circles move up and down to shuffle it about).

image.png
#

And instead ended up with a spinning blade that weighed more than most other compeditors entire bot

#

The extra weight for walkers rules were immediately retracted for the next season

steady halo
#

huh, interesting

barren pendant
#

It inspired the Jack's 'This entire thing was a sidestep around rules designed to help promote smaller and more unusual competitors'

ashen raft
#

I love the whole thing, it spitefully brought down a format and everyone hates it, but at least we got a murdermech

tacit heath
#

So it also fucked over everyone who in the future wanted to try walkers

ruby patrol
#

hmmm i think i will try out kelly

#

because in the current situation my team kinda needs someone to be damage dealer controller and defender at the same time, and kelly looks like the best take

barren pendant
#

Kelly is great at lockdown and defence, particularly against ranged attackers and people who have a lot of reactions.

#

A kelly just ruins the average archer's day by walking up and going 'Hey, we're doing this'

ruby patrol
#

(i checked other homebrew mechs, and one who ALSO would be a really good fit for this role was already tested by our group and nerfed so I wanna try something new)

ruby patrol
#

wont outperform our other damage dealers but still bulky and lockdown-ish

#

thats why i think this mech would be truly ideal for our comp

barren pendant
#

It's also a prime Objectives Mech

#

Being both very durable and remarkably fast for that durability

ruby patrol
#

true

#

3 armor is nuts

#

also fun fact

#

i will be literally the only mech going forward

#

(1.5 if we include support lancaster who will try to kinda not move forward)

#

so kelly better prove itself as a goated mech...

barren pendant
#

Aussie Designer Wants To Make Kelly Mech Cool, News At 11. XD

ruby patrol
#

XD

karmic gull
#

i'm quite fond of vanguard gunslinger kelly

#

why yes i would like you existing within three spaces of me to get your throat in my fist

ruby patrol
#

also i was curious, how does vanguard 3 work with kelly's passive?

#

because it kinda specifies that you can attack with overwatch, but at the same time you can replace overwatches with grapples...

karmic gull
#

i've always read it as vanguard 3, as long as you have a cqb with threat, functionally makes your grapples have the vanguard trigger as well as default overwatch's

ruby patrol
#

well dm said the same to me

#

xd

karmic gull
#

so if an idiot steps within chokeslam range, you get to chokeslam them

ruby patrol
#

no one escapes The Suplex

karmic gull
#

kelly isn't here to not put people in the dirt

lapis sphinx
#

Kelly has 10 sensors. :O

#

Looming Presence is 1/turn, not 1/round?

ruby patrol
#

so you are just fearing the opponents with your sheer look and size

#

ngl this mech kinda gives me middle syndicate vibes from project moon verse, lacking the part where you hit an enemy with counter (fixable with exemplar)

barren pendant
#

Control instead of direct defence

#

(Then the game added a way for any mech to get guardian but that's not my fault so I guess you can just have both)

lapis sphinx
#

Did you forget about the Redoubt Chassis Mod in the same manufacturer?

barren pendant
#

Nah, that was intended/costs licences and sp. Not quite expected it to come from talents too

lapis sphinx
#

True.

#

And House Guard also makes Looming Presence even more punishing.

ashen raft
#

Was the Carmilla ever supposed to get a Retrograde mini?

barren pendant
#

It's On The List

tacit heath
#

(The list is löng, I presume)

ruby patrol
#

so apparently i am not really forced to play kelly because our hacker controller maybe will play tanky frame

#

and i can choose something else

#

ah, freedom, at last...

keen atlas
#

Be the Jack the ripper mech you want to be

#

give the enemies hard cover

ruby patrol
ruby patrol
#

i thought about jack... but it kinda looks at me like this.

empty kraken
#

Hear me out

#

Full HULL/ENGI PHOENIX

The Evil once vanquished shall rise anew. Wrapped in the guise of Man shall he walk amongst the innocent, and terror will consume they that dwell upon the earth. The skies will rain fire, and the seas shall become as blood. The righteous shall fall before the wicked, and all of Creation will tremble before the burning standard of Hell!

lapis sphinx
#

Phoenix fucks severely.

#

And it doesn't even need Agi. It has speed 5.

ashen raft
#

I was looking at Phoenix and how well it comes together

ashen raft
#

Is any of the art in the book specifically supposed to be Medea Nu? I thought for a sec that the cyborg lady on 144 might be her, but she’s specifically mentioned as having blue hair, not green.

barren pendant
uncut apex
#

new Downfall Group frame:

image.png
#

hey, does the Envy's remove traits invade stop Elites and Ultras from having extra turns?

#

provided you use it it after their first activation

ashen raft
#

... I think RAW it does, and that is very funny

ashen raft
#

My first campaign I had a Swallowtail going full support, and that made me loathe the chassis so much, the Envy seems like a fun replacement

ashen raft
#

With the MBT being a thing, is it and the Landship too close in role to meaningfully differentiate them, or do people think there's room for differentiation?

#

I think that there's room for that; MBT is modular in that it can be tailored for either close or long range, and Landships can be specialized as artillery

barren pendant
#

I think they are thematically different but mechanically very distinct.

#

The MBT is a directional tank, it wants you to flank it.

#

The Landship plays with distance, not direction.

#

It has a 'sweet spot' range

#

And doesn't like things closer or further than that sweet spot

ashen raft
#

One of the things I want to do is "non-mech" encounters using an MBT, variant squads from Reconus's squad kits, and the Specialist NPC from Maximum Threat; my formative mech game was MechWarrior, so I like it when mechs and nonmechs are mixed.

uncut apex
#

hey, is the Expansion/Inclusion module supposed to be unique?

#

one of my players, who have a really long line exotic weapon just.... became very excited

barren pendant
uncut apex
#

when you have a line 20, 3d6 energy + 8 burn weapon, a couple of points to probably functionally double the targets may be worth it

nimble finch
#

i don't think you can "chain" them, so that helps? since it doesn't actually include a given space in the aoe, it just lets you target a guy 1 space outside

uncut apex
#

oh, yeah, it's obvious you can't chain them. But you can kind of turn a width 1 line into a functionally width 3 line

lapis sphinx
#

Old MacLancer had a cc_aoe_line
E-I-E-I-M

ashen raft
#

Along with the CHESS system, Wrath has some good systems to grab

lapis sphinx
#

Yeah, I threw together a railgun Wrath with those.

#

It also has Tactician and Mag Clamps to neutralize the difficulty from EIM.

past shore
#

Q about the Spartoi & Flauros Turret when deployed.

These specify you measure range from them for Overwatch, unlike the Ghast Nexus which just says for Skirmish & Barrage. Does that mean a character moving away from the drone triggers Overwatch?

It feels like a weird addition, since counting for Skirmish covers everything Overwatch would need except the trigger, but it doesn’t include “measure threat”.

barren pendant
past shore
#

Awesome, thanks for confirmation! Im excited to see that play out.

keen atlas
#

I'm trying to figure what to pick after 3 License levels in Holiday. Just where to build to with it. Anyone have advice or recommendations?

ashen raft
keen atlas
#

at the moment combined arms 3 nuccav 2 and was using walking armory but thinking of pulling that

lapis sphinx
#

Well, you could grab Celeste 1 for the Hydrostatic Induction Mod, which works well with Wristgun. Though you don't have Vanguard?

karmic gull
#

blackbeard 1

#

SMN on a grappler is good, even if it's naturally size 2

#

don't you wanna be able to suplex an attack gunship?

lapis sphinx
#

Wait, are you a Kelly?

keen atlas
#

Holiday

lapis sphinx
#

And what's your load out?

keen atlas
#

Its everything on license plus jump jets and persos

#

So lasso, carbine, wristguns, bellringer, shuffle, and backoff propellant and the above

ashen raft
#

Celeste has some CQB goodies and Frankenstein has a jump jets upgrade

ashen raft
#

And it would let you nab another MOS core bonus

keen atlas
#

Lots of good ones in there. I like frankenstein, lots of potential there

ionic river
#

does envy's encrypt invade technically make an ultra not an ultra for one turn...?

uncut apex
#

when I asked a week or two back, the response from fellow fans was "RAW it does"

HOWEVER, I as the GM decided to rule a little differently.

Tom and Miguel, in the core book, have several templates, including the elite and the ultra. Several of these have both Traits and Template Features. Functionally, nothing in the core rulebook mechanically cares about either of these things as concepts, so in the CRB something being a Trait is interchangeable with it being a Template Feature

The Encrypt invade does.

But the Encrypt wasn't made by Tom and Miguel. So, I've house-ruled that the extra turns and extra stress and structure provided by templates are all Template Features and thus don't turn off from Encrypt.

nimble finch
#

reinforced etc. are not technically traits

#

they are "Template Features", which are separate

#

what exactly a template feature is is rather unqualified even in core stuff, and so compcon treats them as if they're traits for all purposes AFAIK (since there's no actual difference in core content, really)

uncut apex
#

well, the way they're presented in the CRB, the "Template Features" ARE labelled Traits

nimble finch
#

but if you look at either a print copy or a PDF, they're specifically labeled as "Template Feature"

uncut apex
#

but... I think that wasn't an important distinction at the time

nimble finch
uncut apex
nimble finch
uncut apex
#

yeah, different templates, ironically, are templated differently

nimble finch
#

ahh - that one i'd think is probably a copyediting issue. i think most of the other templates, including ultra & veteran, don't do that

uncut apex
#

actually, the more I look, the more I think it's only the Elite Template that is weird here

nimble finch
#

yeah, other templates just leave that little "Trait" thing blank (grunt iirc has the same format with no little text) or have it structured differently

#

i think. dunno. obviously RAI it's pretty clearly not supposed to work, that'd be stupid, and it looks like RAW barring the copyediting error for elites it doesn't work either lol

uncut apex
#

for the Ultra, all the red-lable stuff on page 330 is Template Feature (which is all the things that make it mechanically an Ultra), where all the red-lable stuff on page 331 is traits (which are optional things, and the kind of stuff that it's not unreasonable to turn off with Encrypt)

#

I'd personally, as I mentioned earlier, house rule all the Red-Lable things in the Elite and the RPV to be Template Features

#

but it seems to only be those that are "vulnerable" to the Encrypt doing weird stuff

barren pendant
#

Yeah. It won't turn off template features

#

it does plenty without un-ultraing the ultra

nimble finch
#

i do think its marginally funnier as an interpretation if it ONLY ratios RPVs and elites

uncut apex
#

if you did let it mess up an RPV, what happens to the RPV's hit points? Does it go down 5 when you hack them and then back up 5 at the end of their turn?

nimble finch
#

i'd personally probably reduce current & max hp by 5, and then up it when it wears off?

past shore
#

What happens if you use Last Dance Module's actions to blow up a White Witch Ferrospike Barrier or Nimue Lakeburst? Is the system destroyed?

barren pendant
#

It's why there is a 'do X damage. If it would blow up the system, do X+Y damage'

#

To make 'blow up a system' give more benefit

#

Ferrospike Barriers don't blow up the system if they get blown up, nor do lakebursts.

#

So they get the smaller effect but you can blow up as many lakebursts as you want.

#

I hope that makes sense?

past shore
#

It does, thanks!

#

We were interpreting the "if it's a non-Limited system do 2X" pretty narrowly, so Turret Drones get 1X, but an Aries Drone gets 2X because they're not Limited.

"Repeatable" Non-Limited Deployables getting 1X seems reasonable.

Should Aries get 1X?
What about the Drone Factory?

barren pendant
#

The Drone factory gets the full big boom, as do the aries drones yeah.

#

The Aries drones are a bit of a sidestep to make sure you've always got a minimum amount of Disposable Boom.

#

As the Medea just churns through mooks

#

And initial testing had 'the medea is great for one battle and then really sad for the rest of them' 😛

#

So they got a bit more support for their endurance

past shore
#

That was what I thought, but wanted to be sure. Thanks for confirming!

I've been having a ton of fun with the Medea so far. Looking forward to trying to get a big explosion out of the factory. 🧨

karmic gull
#

Aries drones also do not need any buffs,

#

:p

barren pendant
#

Hahahah

#

Aries Drones are scary little fuckers.

#

That 'they stop people regardless of size' lets you make really good sheep walls

#

Even if you're not blowing them up, a couple of Aries can just take a berseker out of a battle by being annoying little blockers

barren pendant
#

The Corebook hydra is the 'general purpose' drone mech, with the Medea going Maximum Expendable and the Solomon going Maximum Quality/Least Expendable.

past shore
#

Really enjoying the results of that so far. I slapped a Flauros on the Medea so far and it's been very amusing blanketing the map in BS.

Feels like it takes some of the stress & lengthy planning out of Hydra Gaming for the Aries to be able to move on their own, and to have more Ghast-likes that deploy for free. (Plus having the free safety valve so losing drones isn't quite so catastrophic).

Not quite as much juice in them as the Orochi, but more to play with.

barren pendant
#

Yeah. They make up for it by being expendable little assholes that at any point you can just start cackling like a comic book supervillian as they explode.

past shore
#

I may or may not have repeatedly hazed some Seeders by setting off their mines with the Medea Mineclearing Method.

lapis sphinx
#

Is there an Ironleaf Foundry PDF and LCP?

nimble finch
#

#1233277997742690314 has links iirc

frank trout
#

Quick question, does Holodisruption apply to the Houdini Mk. 1 itself?

ashen raft
#

Normally it wouldn't, since you aren't your own ally, but I'm trying to figure out if it's talking about hiding things near you or enemies that are making search checks within 3

lapis sphinx
#

Hmm, I think this could work pretty well.

-- IPS-N Störtebeker @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  IPS-N Raleigh 2, MOI AMAKUSA 2, MOI MORGANA 1, DOWNFALL WRATH 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Overpower Caliber, Sibyl Analysis Suite
[ TALENTS ]
  Vanguard 3, Nuclear Cavalier 2, Skirmisher 2, Combined Arms 2
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:0 ENGI:4
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:19 ARMOR:1
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:9 REPAIR:7
  TECH ATK:0 LIMITED:+2
  SPD:5 EVA:10 EDEF:7 SENSE:8 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  FLEX MOUNT: Blazer SMG
  FLEX MOUNT: Servo Gauntlet
  HEAVY MOUNT: Flare Naginata // Overpower Caliber
[ SYSTEMS ]
  CHESS System, “Roland” Chamber, Savior Module x5, Armament Redundancy
#

Blazer SMG is for crit fishing, Sibyl works with CA1, CHESS keeps your heat under control, and Savior Module is kinda filler?

lapis sphinx
#

So what's a good way to trigger Ripper Reflex besides barraging?

keen atlas
#

Does it work with hunter 3?

lapis sphinx
#

Nope, main or bigger only.

mighty magnet
lapis sphinx
#

Why can the Belial Stabilize? It doesn't have repairs or a heat cap.

ashen raft
#

The other half of the Stabilize action still relevant.

marsh snow
#

Belial?

barren pendant
#

The Core power of the Solomon

#

It summons...a big bruiser of a minion for a bit

marsh snow
#

oh ok

#

thanks

lapis sphinx
#

It doesn't have any loading weapons, though.

ashen raft
lapis sphinx
# 
-- MO & S JACK @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  MOI MEDEA 1, MO & S FRANKENSTEIN 2, MO & S DONNER 1, DOWNFALL LUST 2
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Overpower Caliber, Integrated Weapon
[ TALENTS ]
  Centimane 3, Duelist 3, Pankrati 2, Hunter 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:0 ENGI:4
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:19 ARMOR:2
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:10 REPAIR:7
  TECH ATK:-1 LIMITED:+2
  SPD:5 EVA:6 EDEF:10 SENSE:5 SAVE:14
[ WEAPONS ]
  INTEGRATED WEAPON: Helsing-Class Combat Piton
  FLEX MOUNT: Exacerbator Gauntlet
  MAIN/AUX MOUNT: Spartoi Blade / Tactical Knife // Overpower Caliber
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Armament Redundancy, Persecution Drive, JACKAL Targeting Suite, Monomania, METEOR Jump Jets
#

Monomania does trigger when you attack the Jack's Victim, and Jackal lets you spread the "love" around even further. The Spartoi Blade lets you capitalize on "consuming lock on" when you attack. The Piton is for more shredding.

royal shell
#

-- MOI AMAKUSA @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
MOI AMAKUSA 3, DOWNFALL GLUTTONY 1, DOWNFALL SLOTH 2
[ CORE BONUSES ]
Overpower Caliber, Environmental Analysis Module
[ TALENTS ]
House Guard 3, Grease Monkey 3, Skirmisher 2, Duelist 1
[ STATS ]
HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:0 ENGI:4
STRUCTURE:4 HP:19 ARMOR:2
STRESS:4 HEATCAP:9 REPAIR:10
TECH ATK:-2 LIMITED:+2
SPD:3 EVA:6 EDEF:10 SENSE:12 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
MAIN MOUNT: Plasma Wakizashi
FLEX MOUNT: Servo Gauntlet
HEAVY MOUNT: Flare Naginata // Overpower Caliber
[ SYSTEMS ]
Blast Plating x8, KANNON-Class NHP x3, Savior Module x5, Guardian Impulse

First time giving a Amakusa a shot, any suggestions to maximize team protection?

lapis sphinx
#

Given you don't have a Downfall core bonus, I think you want Gilgamesh 1 for ERM instead of Blast Plating.

#

I also think you should have a weapon that's long-ranged and not Loading for Skirmisher purposes, either an Assault Rifle or a Mortar.

keen atlas
#

Is flare naginata already accurate? If not autostab

lapis sphinx
#

It is. Accurate, Loading, AP.

#

Also, taking ERM instead of Blast Plating would let you either pick up Armament Redundancy or perhaps grab Concussive Composites on one of your weapons.

lapis sphinx
#

Also, why do you have Environmental Analysis Module? Do you expect to have cover often?

lapis sphinx
#

Thinking about this Envy.

-- DOWNFALL ENVY @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  DOWNFALL ENVY 2, DOWNFALL ACEDIA 1, MO & S HOLIDAY 3
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Overpower Caliber, Narrowband Targeting
[ TALENTS ]
  House Guard 3, Gunslinger 3, Ace 2, Orator 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:0 ENGI:4
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:21 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:10 REPAIR:6
  TECH ATK:+2 LIMITED:+2
  SPD:5 EVA:10 EDEF:9 SENSE:15 SAVE:14
[ WEAPONS ]
  FLEX MOUNT: Bracketing Bomblets / Bracketing Bomblets // Overpower Caliber
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Armament Redundancy, Oz/Silver Shuffle, Rapid Burst Jump Jet System, BACKOFF Propellant Additive, Jealousy Lockout Code Set, Wide-Area LIDAR Emitters x4, Personalizations
lapis sphinx
#

Not sure if Envy is the best platform for it, though. Perhaps PRIDE, and use Bellringer to get Impaired?

lapis sphinx
#

What happens if a Temperance uses a Recall Beacon (Illusion Charges, Houdini 1)?

lapis sphinx
#

Also, does Banner of Living Hope work on drones or other allies with only 1 Structure?

barren pendant
#

Yeah!

royal shell
lapis sphinx
royal shell
lapis sphinx
#

Guardian Impulse also triggers it.

royal shell
#

ah, right

tacit heath
#

(Bracing ain't fun, admittedly. Basically means you don't get a turn. Which hurts in a mission that is 6 turns long)

lapis sphinx
#

Being stunned or destroyed isn't fun either.

royal shell
#

I just discovered the Interdiction Lasers, but between ERM, Guadian Impulse and Kannon NHP I am running out of liscenses, dang

#

-- MOI AMAKUSA @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
MOI AMAKUSA 3, MOI PTOLEMY 1, HA Gilgamesh 1, HA Napoleon 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
Environmental Analysis Module, Overpower Caliber
[ TALENTS ]
House Guard 3, Grease Monkey 3, Skirmisher 2, Duelist 1
[ STATS ]
HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:0 ENGI:4
STRUCTURE:4 HP:19 ARMOR:2
STRESS:4 HEATCAP:9 REPAIR:10
TECH ATK:-2 LIMITED:+2
SPD:3 EVA:6 EDEF:10 SENSE:12 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
MAIN MOUNT: Plasma Wakizashi
FLEX MOUNT: Assault Rifle
HEAVY MOUNT: Flare Naginata // Overpower Caliber
[ SYSTEMS ]
Savior Module x5, Emergency Repair Module x3, Interdiction Lasers, KANNON-Class NHP x3, Stasis Bolt

lapis sphinx
# 
-- MOI SOLOMON @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
  HORUS Hydra 1, HORUS Gorgon 2, MOI MEDEA 1, MOI SOLOMON 2
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  The Lesson of the Held Image, Hygromanteia
[ TALENTS ]
  Centimane 3, Drone Commander 2, Heavy Gunner 2, House Guard 1, Duelist 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:2 SYS:0 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:19 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:8 REPAIR:8
  TECH ATK:0 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:4 EVA:10 EDEF:10 SENSE:15 SAVE:14
[ WEAPONS ]
  Integrated: Infernal Strength
  Integrated: Goetia
  MAIN MOUNT: Flauros Turret
  FLEX MOUNT: Nexus (Light) / Nexus (Light)
  FLEX MOUNT: Spartoi Blade
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Armament Redundancy, PUPPETMASTER, Golden Fleece, Sentinel Drone, Monitor Module, Phenex Drone
wide pier
oak trench
#

Are there any specific mechsystems or weapons that can be used while Shut Down due to Miniaturization?

#

Or is it meant only as a way for pilots to wear their 1/2 at all times and always be ready for combat?

old wave
#

It also functions as a Hard Suit so you can use pilot weapons and gear without having to a dismount, including while the mech is Shut Down, and to still move and stuff while Shut Down

lapis sphinx
#

Also, damage while wearing it goes to the mech's HP, not yours, and even a Goblin has more than you do.

oak trench
#

well, i shifted gears to another concept. how is celeste's damage?

#

im trying to build something right now but im not sure it has enough damage to really be a good striker you know?

lapis sphinx
#

Its striker trait is two Main/Aux mounts.

#

Like the Nimue.

#

It also gets Vanguard 3 for free with all weapon types.

barren pendant
#

It's got a lot of damage with the main/aux mounts, just with the provision that armour blunts it more than most.

ruby patrol
#

i remember building some celeste... yeah it shreds sometimes ngl

empty kraken
#

It can also literally Shred with native systems

olive wedge
#

im so brainrotted
i read this and my brain went

lapis sphinx
#

The Hydrostatic mod isn't shredding, but it serves the same purpose, while still having utility against enemies with no armor.

oak trench
# 
[ LICENSES ]
  MO & S CELESTE 3, MO & S FRANKENSTEIN 2
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Curst-Class Fail-Forward Targeting
[ TALENTS ]
  Vanguard 3, Combined Arms 3, Skirmisher 2
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:0 ENGI:3
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:17 ARMOR:0
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:8 REPAIR:6
  TECH ATK:0 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:6 EVA:10 EDEF:10 SENSE:10 SAVE:14
[ WEAPONS ]
  MAIN/AUX MOUNT: Exacerbator Gauntlet / Thermal Pistol
  MAIN/AUX MOUNT: Terror-Class Scattergun (Hydrostatic Induction Mod) / Segment Knife
[ SYSTEMS ]
  METEOR Jump Jets, MUTINY Targeting System, Assault/Battery Disengagement Routines x5```
#

How's this for a DPS Celeste?

lapis sphinx
#
  • Tactical Knife is better than Segment Knife, because it lacks the random heat.
  • You don't need A/B because you have Vanguard and Skirmisher for that. I think what you grab instead is Holiday 1, because the Reliable on both mains works really well with the Wristgun.
  • OpCal is probably better than Curst. You can grab that at LL6.
ashen raft
#

I still remember the time I went into the danger zone my first attack with a segment knife.

oak trench
#

fair enough, i dont have that high of a heatcap to be gambling with heat

#

ill change up the build, thanks

ashen raft
lapis sphinx
#

Also, I reread the Celeste's first passive, and realized I'd misread it before.

#

It doesn't synergize as well as I thought with Vanguard 3, because it doesn't let you ignore "ignores reactions" when they enter your threat.

ruby patrol
#

yeah, vanguard 3 isn't the most ideal thing

#

because you usually will be spending overwatch during your turn on knockback/ to prevent someone in threat from teleporting

keen atlas
#

Do the skirmishes from Celeste's core power trigger skirmisher 2 to effectively give two extra spaces of movevent per skirmish target? That would expand the range of northwest passage a fair bit.

#

To clarify, what is rules as intended with that?

ashen raft
#

If its a skirmish, Skirmisher 2 applies

#

Part of the reason it's an incredibly powerful talent

keen atlas
#

is the lock on from Mircalla-Class Multitask Module intended to count for spotter 2?

lapis sphinx
#

The free Lock On from Spotter 2 cares specifically about the Lock On Quick Tech.

keen atlas
#

yes but you can do the lock on quick tech as a free action by overcharging

#

is it different from that

#

I guess a better way to ask, when I use Mircalla-Class Multitask Module am I performing the quick tech that is called Lock On as a free action. or am I applying the lock on condition to a character as a free action

final perch
#

been looking at the Nimue on 'n' off for a while and finally got the chance to pick up the Frame in the game I'm in, had a couple Qs burning a hole in my brain that I wanted to get cleared up after our first major encounter-

  1. The Core Passive Ripples on the Lake says [During your turn, you can attack a character within Range 15 as if they were in your Sensors, Range, Threat and Line of Sight, but you must consume Lock On during the attack.] but doesn't specify "1/round" or other restrictions. If I have some valid combination of attack actions, can I attack multiple locked-on targets in a single turn, or is it just the one target?

  2. If something preserves the lock-on effect through the attack (e.g. the Donner Jackal Targeting Suite) would it allow attacking the same target twice in one turn with the Core Passive, even if multiple locked targets isn't an option?

barren pendant
#

Yep to both!

#

The nimue is very lock on hungry and not great at creating them herself

final perch
#

Good to have that clarified, much appreciated.

Yeah that was my experience in our first encounter so I wanted to doublecheck. But it's fun being a sneaky, hypermobile striker. Got a Lich and a Tarax for providing locks so I'm not too worried there.

lapis sphinx
#

That's why I took Lust 2 with my Nimue.

lapis sphinx
sage widget
barren pendant
#

Not against the same guy, no.

#

But you can barrage against 2 guys with lock on and beat them both up.

sage widget
#

Okay, that was my initial assessment, but I wasn't 100%.

#

Another question:
So with the original 4 companies, their main gimmicks tend to revolve around the 4 main stats of the game H.A.S.E, and their frames and core bonuses tended to be in some way synergistic with them.
When designing these companies, what were your thoughts on the tie-togethers for them?
What is Downfall's throughline vs MOI's vs MO&S? Considering how the original 4 are done, it couldn't be easy thinking of a unifying mechanical theme

#

Its a big question, but I just really like hearing designer's thought processes.

final perch
# sage widget Oh that reminds me, just to be sure: I'm assuming that the Nimue cannot benefit ...

this is why I picked out the Jackal in my second question specifically, since its effect is;

PROTOCOL:
Choose yourself or an ally within Range 4. The next attack the chosen character makes against a hostile character with Lock On gains the benefits of consuming Lock On without consuming Lock On (including for the purposes of talents or other systems). This effect ends if you choose another target before it is used.
sage widget
#

Oh wow, that is pretty nasty of a combo.

barren pendant
#

MOI is stuck between it's seccom history and a more genuine embrace of thirdcom ideals

#

MO&S is on the verge of 'big company' and all the moral complications that comes with

#

Ahd DFG is on the edge of rebellion against it's corporate masters.

sage widget
#

Iirc, DFG is tied to IPS-N, yes?

barren pendant
#

Yep!

sage widget
#

Okay dope

barren pendant
#

They're corporate spies

sage widget
#

Of them, I definitely felt like I understood DFG the best. Lots of their core bonuses felt extremely informational, utility-based, and spy-like

barren pendant
#

They're tied to the fact that while IPS-N tends to play the 'we're hard working underdogs who do the Hard Yakka and are Real Blokes, not corporate stooges', they're very much still a megacorp

#

IPS-N puts on the illusion of authenticity, while doing all the same underhanded stuff everyone else does

#

And DFG is one of the faces of that underhanded aspect.

sage widget
#

To a degree, almost like the UIB to Union for IPS-N?

barren pendant
#

Yeah except say what you will about UIB, they've got a goal and political stance.

#

IPS-N's political stance is 'Line Goes Up'

sage widget
#

Mhm, yeah. For them, I definitely see the flavor to mechanics and how they relate when looking at some of the more unique abilities in the line.
What about the other ones, like MOI and MO&S? MOI at least to me, feels like the "rule breaker" faction when it comes to their relation to typical mechanics in the game. Considering their history with Voladore tech (which may or may not have been fairly acquired), that would make sense, but what is the intended feel of the mechs and abilities?

#

Again sorry if these question are strange, its just fun to dig a bit into designer's brains, especially since I've wanted to try homebrewing in the future.

barren pendant
#

MOI mechs are designed to sorta avoid Direct Confrontation and Straightfoward Fights. Even their toughest defender, the Amakusa is a teleporter.

#

They approach problems sideways.

sage widget
#

So that's why Nimue has its lock-on mechanic and abilities to avoid punishment from prone, Solomon can fight without ever really being near the battle via drones, etc?
Okay interesting, I hadn't actually put that together.

barren pendant
#

Yeah. MOI isn't really designed to do Direct Fights.

#

The Amakusa is the closest there but notably it A) Teleports about B) Has a chunk of Loading weapons, promoting it not always just mashing into to other guy but instead picking the right moments.

sage widget
#

Yeah, the Amakusa strikes me as a mech designed around patience. Very limited systems and stuff that seems like it wants you to wait back for the enemy to commit first before you do.
The reason I actually was asking all this, aside from my love of learning how designers think, is because some of my players are interested in maybe trying some mechs from your book, and I wanted to get an understanding on what the real intention behind them was. It helps me get how I should look at the frames and see if they are right for the game. The party's defender actually wanted to try the Amakusa! The party's hacker was thinking about side-speccing into the Nimue for deeper into the game.

#

Thank you for the honest answers!
The initial descriptions in the book help, but hearing it from the mouth of the designer is always good for painting a clear picture

barren pendant
#

I'm always happy to ramble about my stuff and I genearlly have some plan in my projects.

#

MOI's theme is 'indirect', IF's is 'Risk' etc

sage widget
#

Glad to hear! I do get nervous asking these things, because some developers can be... touchy(?) about being asked directly?

#

OH, I totally forgot to ask-
What about MO&S? What's their generally tie-together for gameplay?

#

I felt like I struggled the most with understanding them.

barren pendant
#

Okay so that was @empty kraken's baby but the general tie together with them is 'They just fucking won't stop moving'

#

Less in a 'they can't be hurt' way

#

And more in a 'they keep going no matter how much you rip and tear at them'

#

Have you ever played Battletech?

sage widget
#

I've not but I have a few friends who do.

#

I'm assuming they basically aren't taken down proper until you really rip everything off of them?

barren pendant
#

Battletech has a concept called 'Zombie Mechs'

#

Mechs who might not have the Most Armour but they don't have anything on the inside that will cause a catestrophic failure.

#

No explosive internal ammo, no extra large engines etc

#

So they lose part after part after part but they won't fucking stay down

sage widget
#

Oh so you can just keep pumping rounds at them, but nothing critical will be destroyed, so they are still going to be operational

barren pendant
#

Yep!

#

MO&S mechs are a bit like that. They've got inbuilt 'I fix some stuff up' traits and high repair caps.

sage widget
#

Oh they are literally the "I didn't hear no bell" meme

barren pendant
#

A MO&S mech is the energiser bunny in that even if you blow a chunk of it off, they can fix it right up on the field.

#

A good contrast is HA.

#

HA mechs have high health caps and good armour.

#

But tend to have mediocre/outright bad repair caps

#

As everything is specialist, high quality parts that need a repair bay to fix.

sage widget
#

Hard to break down in the firstplace, hard to fix too.

barren pendant
#

Yeah!

sage widget
#

Okay I think I see it now! Thanks for the summarization!
I might pop in and ask some more questions around more specific design intentions later!

barren pendant
#

It's kinda funny that MOI and MO&S both have solid repair caps but for very different reasons.

#

MO&S is 'I didn't hear no bell/I can duct tape it back together'

#

MOI is 'We are a logistics/transport company. You will go into battle with every single spare part you need and we can get them delivered in the field'

sage widget
#

I noticed that with the Core Bonus for the extra reserve lmao.

#

I'd never thought of the idea of improved logistics for one pilot being a core bonus, so it got me to chuckle

#

Its a very novel idea for a bonus

barren pendant
#

You kinda have to get a bit creative when the corebook covers the 'basic stuff' so damn well. XD

#

It's sorta why Liminal Space NPCs are a bit more 'these things are spice, not the majority of a fight'. As when there is already Assaults, Bombards, Berserkers etc the 'baseline' NPCs are already very well covered.

sage widget
#

Yeah, they definitely feel that way. I had a GM run a mission with majority LS NPCs and uhhh

.>
Don't make all the artillery sorceresses. Our poor defender was so mad lmao.

#

Having them be unique accessories, after some experimenting, felt like the way to go so I'm glad we had that right.

barren pendant
#

Ooof, yeah. I wrote it and even I'll go 'please do not make the entire mission LS NPCs. They are not more powerful but they are more complex as they're designed to be used more like Witches and Mirages, where they're an extra complication to the fight, not the main fight'

sage widget
#

Yeah haha, unfortunately I didn't get my hands on the PDF itself until after the GM at the time had used them a fair bit. I only had the LCP at the time. Now I have a bit more ability to see what he was (or wasn't) doing correctly or incorrectly.

#

He was one of those GMs who liked introducing every bit of 3rd party ever without actually reading the book or context, so it became a mess. Now after he had to leave, I'm the new GM alongside another friend and we're cleaning up the clutter and seeing what we want to keep vs scrap. I personally liked your stuff a lot, so I wanted a good understanding of it to ensure that I knew how to use it and keep it fair for the team.

barren pendant
#

Funny thing on PDF stuff: I had a big talk with the artist who did the Megafauna art @toxic jetty about how I didn't want it to look too scary. I wanted it to come across as a big animal but very much 'part of nature', not 'And here is a Xenomorph, kill it with fire!'

sage widget
#

I thought the Megafauna's art looked dope. Its like a giant alien giga-lion

final perch
#

the LS NPCs are fun (and evil, sometimes), but. yeah. we ran into one Sorceress in an early mission and it was rough just by itself, especially since most of us were mostly using ranged weapons. I ended up having to Ram it in order to get the bullet shield down so we could actually take it out.

barren pendant
#

A general thing with my NPCs design - They all tend to have a big glowing weak point where if you hit it, they get a lot less scary.

#

The Sorcereress' is 'Oh god, forced movement, I am doomed!'

sage widget
#

They are the barbarossa of rapid fire

barren pendant
final perch
#

unfortunately at that point we didn't have a whole lot of options for forcing movement between us, especially ones that didn't rely on a ranged attack in the first place. but it all worked out in the end.

sage widget
#

Relatable.

barren pendant
# 
Adaptive Megafauna Studies
It is a commonly understood fact that evolution is a complicated and ongoing process. Evolution does not have a purpose. It does not have levels. It does not inherently move towards progress. Individuals cannot evolve over the course of a single lifetime.

Therefore, what is happening with the Megafauna of Milisea cannot be called Evolution.

On many worlds colonized, the timeline is much the same: The first few generations are those most threatened by local dangers but as time and local production increased, those dangers are tamed and pushed back. New suits are designed to resist environmental threats and the weaknesses of local dangerous creatures are categorized, allowing for equipment to be tailored to fight them most effectively. Assumptions that it would be much the same with Milisea's Megafauna quickly found themselves being torn apart by the adaptive creatures.

This was first noticed within the first few years of colonization, as prototype Union Space Program exosuits were fabricated to endure local beasts, only for within a few months for them to be encountering examples with bite force enough to shatter solid metal. Expanding bullets likewise encountered creatures that demanded armour piercing rounds not long after their creation. A risky project by Conchobar to attempt to expand their territory into local dens with TBK weaponry has resulted in encountering new strains of Megafauna that drink up heat like a sponge and can even eject flame to attack.

It is very fortunate for the locals that Milisea's megafauna are merely territorial and not actively hostile to humanity. It has left Milisea with significant green spaces that cannot truly be claimed to be entirely safe but can be traversed by small groups that show respect to the local creatures. Drummond's naturalists in particular are fascinated by this rapid adaptivity, cataloging each new change as it is located and befriending local creatures to better understand the process and how it might be used to aid in many areas.
sage widget
barren pendant
#

It would give the morgana a bit more 'general' punch at the cost of 'I overheated you, time to evaporate' absolute potential

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And 'general gameplay' matters more.

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Interesting. Have playtests or just general post-release results shown the Morgana as underperforming?

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Because if so, my "uh oh" radar was totally off, I thought that thing was an absolute monster

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It's a bit too feast or famine from post-release feedback

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If you can overheat the other guy reliably, it's a bit much

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If you can't, it's a little less than stellar.

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So I can see why turning it into burn would make it more reliable for hurting things, but how does the potential lower? Did I miss an interaction with energy damage that's affected by it?

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OH

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Only Kinetic, Energy and Explosive

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I didn't know that!

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That's uh... I'm going to have to double check some stuff for games >.>

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I think our Tokugawa may have been overperforming by accident

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So the idea is that making it burn makes it better when the other guy isn't exposed but significantly less good when the guy is exposed.

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Yeah. It would sorta help even things out to be a more reliable experiance

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Instead of right now when ti's a bit 'Big whoop, not that impressive' and 'oh god, everything!' without much in between

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If that makes sense?

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Yeah, it definitely does. I was very worried that it would go into that latter extreme, so it was the only frame I was actually hesitant to let through. I think if I did that change, I'll be more comfortable with it.

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feel free to do so! I wrote it and I fully support it!

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What about the Aeos Drone? How would you change that one? Because one of the players IS very tempted to grab Solomon/Medea if the thing goes through (it probably will at this rate lmao).

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Basicly: I'd knock the LOS reduction down to 'within range 3' instead of 'adjacent'.

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Not a huge change but makes it a bit less mean

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Would the drone itself still require adjacency too, or would the radius also become 3?

empty kraken
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Say that number again

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Totally the most mature person in all of Union, right here

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Listen. I promised mechs, not dignity

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I was referring to myself but yeah fair enough xD

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Honestly, I'm damn tempted to get the Nimue for my Atlas pilot. Their vibes are kinda similar in the sense of being non-dedicating melee characters about being stealthy.

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I think if I do, I might design it off of Lingering Will from Kingdom Hearts

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Nimue is just so cool

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Too many shotguns

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Yeah, admittedly this boi is going to be less and less stealthy as the game goes on.

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His current build is Atlas 3 Mourning Cloak 3.
Probably getting Acastus from Intercorp and Nimue from Liminal Space.

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John Sword himself

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Yyyeah I'm not sure CELESTE offers anything there

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I will pitch her another day

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I'm always down to hear about other people's pilots. As the subreddit says:
We stan pilot art!

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My brother in lack of Christ I'm one of the writers :p

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OH

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I THOUGHT YOU MEANT A CELESTE PILOT

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No xD

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Hah, I'm very stoop

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But yeah- wait you said shotguns?
One of the players is super big on shotguns.

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Sell me

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I needed a new mech to replace the Merlin and that's why it's the Nimue.

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Nimue is the person who defeated Merlin

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I'm a fiend for Celtic Mythology, as you can sorta tell from my next project, By Star and Melody. XD

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I actually know nothing about your next project. I'd love to read about it if you have a link!

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# sage widget Sell me

MO&S CELESTE is a zippy little interdiction frame extremely notable for her ability to Overwatch against forced movement, making her fast friends with any CQC setup she can mount

Her native kit includes a very reliable shotty (the Terror-class Scattergun), 3 war crimes in a trench coat (Erebus Hand Cannon, which Shreds on hit) & perhaps most relevant to a shotgun fan, the Hydrostatic Induction Mod

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# sage widget I actually know nothing about your next project. I'd love to read about it if yo...

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jcKV4xrOI7SVgclud3R_fCwZ9MLgfwQi3-9wJy8-zX4/edit?usp=sharing It's not got a PDF but it does have an .lcp!

Google Docs
By Star and Melody

By Star and Melody Those Who Walk Away From Union: A Foundational Myth You Cannot Escape Yourself: The History of Milesia The Tribes of Milesia: Tuatha Various Cultural Things: In Need Of A Cool Chapter Name The Barrow At The Center Of A World: Airgead Barrow Glory Across The Stars: The Iron Crow...

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OOOH thank you!

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It's also got one of the only mech systems that had Dragonkid just go 'What? How do I make that work?' with his text to speech program. XD

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??

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I remember hydrostatic induction being a good grab on my gunslinger kelly

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I love Gaelic. I can't pronounce it for my life.

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Throw it on a pistol in a pistol/wristgun mount, attack with the mount. Wrist gun as primary, pistol as free extra attack. Take the pistol attack first.

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