Field Guide To Liminal Space

[barren pendant]

So I'd designed the Iron Maiden around 'Eh, it does the structure damage but they'll be at full HP afterwards so it can't chain repeatedly'

So the Iron Maiden is Scarier Than Intended 😛

[halcyon thorn]

Oh, I'd probably run it that way myself yeah
Having Madame Guillotine functionally do Omnigun Damage equal to the HP they've got left, rather than straight up '3 HP 4 Structure-> 3 HP 3 Structure'

[barren pendant]

Yeah, if I redid it these days I'd have gone 'Reduces to 0 HP' instead of '1 structure' XD

Sorry for things not quite ended up as intended with that one.

[halcyon thorn]

I had always assumed that was the RAI, so no big issue
If anyone at my table says 'hey shouldn't I not heal to full' I will simply tell them to count their blessings

[barren pendant]

Hahahah

For most Iron Maidens it's not proved honestly too different in practice.

Ultra with the 'I get many multiple turns' is about the only area where it's 'oooh, yeah, not quite working as planned' XD

[halcyon thorn]

God yeah
Nothing like a striker going in to get past Siege Shield then just
'Madame Guillotine->Madame Guillotine->Madame Guillotine'

[barren pendant]

But yeah, hope you have fun with the fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYR6qmRq6aM Also: The Song I named that attack after is really fun for a song about executing french nobles. XD

[halcyon thorn]

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it, though its a decent ways away
The game's still in the planning stages, and the Ultra Maiden is probably gonna be one of the final fights
I'm also gonna be running a Chessmaster+Elite Breacher+Strikebreaker comp in another fight, looking forward to seeing how the players deal with that
Strikebreaker detains a dude for the Breacher to set up Painmaker right in their face
Then the Chessmaster uses Checkmate

[halcyon thorn]

Question about the Meteor Jumpjets- when they say 'when you move or Boost', do they mean 'when you take your standard move or Boost', or 'any movement you make and Boost'
I assume its the former, but I know there have been Talks about the use of 'move or boost' with other abilities before, so

[barren pendant]

@empty kraken

[empty kraken]

Latter

Wait

Standard move or a Boost

I swear I'm literate

[halcyon thorn]

So it would be the former, just to be super clear?

[barren pendant]

Yeh

Since it comes with a smash, being too repeatable would be a bit

[empty kraken]

What Iki said

I just woke up after a 9 hour "nap" that hella betrayed me

[mossy lotus]

You just had an overflow error.

[barren pendant]

https://www.goonhammer.com/building-a-future-that-is-not-foreclosed-upon-an-interview-with-miguel-lopez-and-kai-tave-of-massif-press-publisher-of-lancer/

[barren pendant]

Behold the Entirely Not Edited Quote

[fading jewel]

Me when I get sent to the backrooms Mourning Cloak dimension

[karmic gull]

Me stopping at my tenth rest stop in two days

at least give me a service plaza

[graceful kayak]

this is a huge interesting article.

[naive iris]

I like the commentary on Union as flawed

[fleet steppe]

Do not fear, Union is here

[karmic gull]

Union is here. You are safe.

[old wave]

We're from the government Union and are here to help

[rustic root]

Hey so question: I think it was mentioned that Temperance used to need to include itself in the blasts, but that was changed because that was bad somehow. How was it bad, exactly?

was it just the inherent issue of self damage being problematic as a core gameplan, or something more specific?

[mossy lotus]

I believe it was the problematic ||"suicide bomber"|| imagery, IIRC.

Ah, yep, here we go. #973235717553676328 message

(Spoilered since Psy did when talking about it.)

[halcyon thorn]

The close blast 'bomb punch' playstyle is much cooler and has much less icky vibes, so I'm glad

[zenith niche]

And this is why sensitivity readers are a thing!

[barren pendant]

(Now I feel a hair concerned about one of the Ironleaf Foundry systems)

[zenith niche]

The rocket jump thing, right?

That one is just cool

[barren pendant]

On the same frame, yeah.

Claymore Buckler
2 SP, Unique
When you cause a character to be pushed, pulled or knocked back, they can pass over and onto obstacles of up to Height 5, counting as flying during the movement. In addition, when you lay a Mine, you can attach it to yourself, measuring all effects of the mine from your own space and being unable to trigger it with your own movements. If this mine forces you to make a save, you can roll the save twice and take the higher result. You can only have one mine attached to you this way at a time.

‘This side towards enemy’

A shield that lets you stick a mine on it and go 'come at me, I fucking dare you'

[zenith niche]

Big difference, I think, is that Temperance was entirely built to charge in and blow up by Psy’s description. Then again, same frame also has a Claymore with that same flavor text. It’s a good mine 🤣

[barren pendant]

I might make a hair of wording change.

you can attach it to yourself

To

you can attach it to the shield

[mossy lotus]

Might be a better idea, yeah. Just creates a different visual.

[barren pendant]

The intent is less 'suicide bomber' and more 'TF2 Demo/Soldier disregard for safety'

Ala this

[graceful kayak]

ah yes

the best demoman weapon.

I will not be taking questions.

[karmic gull]

[Demoman? voice] Demopan?

[little wadi]

White hot phosphorus only works on one character right even if it’s an aoe ?

[halcyon thorn]

Yeah
The wording is 1/round when you hit a target, and uses singular, so if it were an AOE you'd use the quick against a single succesful attack roll of the AOE
No dealing 16 heat with a single Flamethrower shot

[halcyon thorn]

Do people have any recs for what to fluff Pistolero's hat as other than a..... hat?
I do love the flavor but I may have a key enemy NPC be a Pistolero in an upcoming game and their mech having a little cowboy hat doesn't really make sense

[barren pendant]

A good one to work with for a more 'serious sci-fi' angle would be shield drones. Big hits can disrupt and scatter them, requiring them to be brought back online.

[halcyon thorn]

Hm, that might work
To explain why I'm making them a Pistolero instead of.... any other class, this is their token art:

That, and they're infamous for coming back from death multiple times due to paracausal nonsense, which seems to fit the 'lowkey doing space magic' angle of the Pistolero

[barren pendant]

https://preview.redd.it/blk6wcie4jb91.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=f688adf5069b018f834e494613ff0b2b1f3a4783

This I will admit is in my brain right now.

[violet island]

is that the gundam from the witch of mercury?

[barren pendant]

Yep!

[violet island]

Ive not caught up on it yet

but ive seen ep 1

was very cool

[barren pendant]

Where there is a physical shield but they're not physically holding it all the time, so big hits can scatter the components away from the user.

[violet island]

im still waiting for part 2 of the hathaway movies

part 1 has one of the best scenes for what its like to be at the feet of fighting mobile suits imo

[steady halo]

you could just also flavor it as paracausal nonsense

which is what it's already kinda flavored to be

[halcyon thorn]

Yeah, the other idea I had was marking the space as like
'paradox' or something
They're distorting the timeline to avoid killshots, so need to get their timeline 'back on the rails' somehow to get it going again

[violet island]

Generally I think you can replace Hat with Object, and then replace Object with literally any other object

[halcyon thorn]

I'm looking forward to running this guy though
Elite Partisan Pistolero, taking Hidden Pitfalls flavored as a reactive ankle shot
Wingmen hanging out to give him boosted Soft Cover, Specters exploiting his ability to isolate people with Dance! and Pitfalls

[karmic gull]

Flavor it as shooting him out of himself

Like the doctor strange soul punch

[rustic root]

I like this, but I can't look at it and not see that one centurii-chan comic

https://twitter.com/CenturiiC/status/1593233847860465667?s=20

centurii-chan (@CenturiiC)

shes learning new styles of gun-fu

Likes

24529

Retweets

2444

Twitter · Nov 17, 2022, 1:25 PM

[halcyon thorn]

This is more or less what I was going for, tbh
Gun Monk 😌

[fading jewel]

That also reminds me of this archetype courtesy of PF2e

[obtuse willow]

gunk

[fading jewel]

Oh BTW how's Ironleaf doing?

[halcyon thorn]

Seconding this, I've had my eye on it for a while
I wonder if its smart to include Ironleaf in this LS oneshot's roster 🤔

[barren pendant]

It's going okay, slowed down for a bit after I needed to have surgery but I'm writing fluff and flashpoints right now.

The mechanics side is mostly done.

The big thing I'm working on right now is brainstorming and writing various teams for the Iron Crown, Ironleaf Foundry's big mech arena combat.

[karmic gull]

The nameless team, the old iron team, the ivory team, the sunken team, team vendrick,

[barren pendant]

Heh. Trying to give them all a lot of personality as this being non-lethal there's a solid chance you'll see a team you know more than once 😛

[obtuse willow]

if nothing else ironleaf is extremely playable

I've been playing a poppy for a while

love that girl

[karmic gull]

I long for my lily like a child longing for the mines

[barren pendant]

I know I've got a hair of updates to the rulesside but even then that's legitimately just me wanting to slightly adjust the fluff for a couple of things.

(The big thing is a tiny wording update for the Claymore Shield to make it sound a bit less like you're sticking the bombs on yourself/it being more clearly on the shield itself)

[obtuse willow]

I can't think of anything in LS and Ironleaf off the top of my head that would break if you run them together

[halcyon thorn]

I may add 'would you be down for Ironleaf Foundry as well' to my app for the LS game then
Once I give them a second once-over (second-over)

I loved the IA-focused frame Ironleaf had last time I checked them out
The Clover, I think?

On that note: Is there a comp/con LCP of Ironleaf floating around anywhere?

[barren pendant]

Two of the teams for the competition, if two of the Less Serious ones.

[obtuse willow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/907125582603632696/1077422336447348766/ironleaf-foundry_1.0.2.lcp

there is, made by yours truly

because I literally just wanted to play a poppy and learned to code lcps for it lol

[halcyon thorn]

Thanks a lot!

[obtuse willow]

ofc

[barren pendant]

(Can you tell that while a lot of people don't like HA, I'm really not a fan of SSC and their Eugenics Bullshit?)

[obtuse willow]

oh you're extremely valid

HA gets a bad rap because it's the brand of evil that is most relatable to a lot of people, I think, but

the point of lancer is that they all suck lol

[halcyon thorn]

And lowkey though I love Hernan
'Military dude whose competent but his assignments never really gave him any prestige' is something I love
My favorite Brigador pilot is this old Loyalist dude who the guy writing dossiers says 'yeah if he was calling the shots in the Loyalists they'd probably be a lot scarier, but he wasn't enough of a kiss-ass so he never got any promotions'

[barren pendant]

Yeah, Hernan is designed to be...he's not incompetent. I gave him one of the ranks in Battlegroup that you expressly can't buy.

It's more 'This guy has spent his life as a supply and support officer, as there's a big tooth to tail ratio in the military'

It's just he's also...well, never actually been in a life or death fight so he's not really one of the scarier people in the competition despite solid training and gear.

[halcyon thorn]

I see 👀

[barren pendant]

Hiro? Now that guy is a fucking incompetent fuckup.

Because I subscribe to the philosophy that no one who believes in Eugenics should be allowed to breed 😛

||Yes, the fact that stopping them breeding would be eugenics is the joke||

[torpid viper]

Hernan and my battlegroup/night sky falling commander Patricia chatting. Notably, Hernan's probably got more experience than Patricia, given that Patricia was a strictly non-combat logistics expert who got pulled into frontline command due to an attempted decapitation strike that somewhat succeeded, and they had enough clearances and academic knowledge to somewhat function.

[barren pendant]

100%. Of the Big 4, SSC is going to likely get the biggest case of 'Oh wow, you guys suck' with Ironleaf Foundry stuff as one of the three flashpoints is very much about them.

[halcyon thorn]

One of my favorite Lancer pilots ever came about from showing off the faults of SSC's system

Najat Olcay-Baptiste, product of the Olcay-Baptiste piloting line, a series of engineered humans designed to create the best chassis pilots possible
She's like 4 foot something so they can make the cockpits as small and therefore armored as possible, and has insane imposter syndrome since she was raised in a classroom full of 'identical' clones she was constantly driven to compare herself too
The conclusion of her arc was realizing she didn't need to be the best Olcay-Baptiste, but the best Najat, and her quitting Constellar Security to become a chassis racer in the Karrakin circuit

[torpid viper]

(Patricia may or may not be inspired by a gilbert and sullivan song about alternative paths to leadership in a navy, though they are less of a buffoon.

[barren pendant]

In this case I'm going...I mean, I am not a subtle writer. The vibe for the 'Hey, you guys want to do much more unambiguous shooting horrible things in mechs?' one:

-Genetic Research/Nanocybernetics Group, Subsidiary of SSC
-Secret Decorp Research as attempts to 'ascend' to higher existence.
-Initial testings seemed promising, prepared human testing.
-Catastrophic failure. Attempts at decorp didn't handle it well.
-A mix of paniced survivors, decorp bio/cybernetic monsters and some True Believers in control of security systems who think that they can still salvage this situation and just need some More Test Subjects.

With the primary antagonist:

They're a researcher doing illegal decorp research because they believe that decorp is the 'next step in evolution'...with the idea that they're genemodding and training specific people to be the people decorped because they believe that only people of the right background and mindset have the purity of spirit to handle decorp and once they've achieved it, they won't need the 'superfluous' parts of humanity.

Just the most 'Let me measure your skull to show how you're inferior to me' fucker.

[rustic root]

Tbh the biggest "well they suck" for me is IPS-N

[karmic gull]

Agreed. The other corporations at least believe in something

[rustic root]

SSC is coming in second but that's because they come in second on the hypercapitalism scale, not because of the eugenics stuff

"lol false scarcity amirite"

[barren pendant]

Oh yeah, IPS-N is the one of the big corps I have no respect for. The others? Yeah, they do things, they've got a philosophy of some sort.

ISP-N? Make Line Go Up.

[mossy lotus]

Yeah. IPS-N sucks. I know I've also been leaning just as much into them being very much... deal with the devil offerings, too. They've got just what you need in their catalogues, and will even be willing to extend you a little credit to do it...

[rustic root]

The joke among my local play group is they're Space Amazon

[opal forum]

It's true

[rustic root]

(This makes DFG even funnier because you just bought a frame from Amazon's Black Ops division with same day shipping.)

[barren pendant]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0lcrb_56Is

[carmine nymph]

And the number of people who DO EXACTLY THAT…

Ikiryo wrote one of the nine character briefs, an Ungrateful in a Wrath, who basically was the exact situation

[halcyon thorn]

Ironleaf Foundry is also good for here, right?
I've gotta say, Belladona's Dullahan Lunge really hits the right spot for me
Just...... save or damage 😌

[barren pendant]

IF has a good number of 'Bully the Nerd' tricks.

And the Dullahan Lunge is sorta designed to be 'Hey, Stop The Fucking Tricks'

Invisible Fucker? No, Save Or Damage. Barrel Rolling Ace? No, Save Or Damage.

Hacker? I will punch you in the soul until you stop that nerd shit.

[barren pendant]

Really glad you like it!

And another of the teams for the contest. This time one of the 'Oh, these guys you might fight in the finals' teams.

[wide pier]

I love ssc because of the biological stuff. Not so much a fan of how they get there

[barren pendant]

And another Bit Of A Weird One for the contest. Oh shit, someone turned up with a Biological foe.

[halcyon thorn]

I love Collin 😌

[honest meteor]

@barren pendant is there a google doc or pdf for Ironleaf?

[old wave]

I believe this is the current one https://docs.google.com/document/d/1f3GGtWnPhYAMICdsWlEUxfPpBhVhY8DsZJAyBxJ1PpM/edit#heading=h.rgrk03xnik2j

[wide pier]

👀

[torpid viper]

Suggestion of a team of NHPs, and another that’s a group of Albatross.

[tacit heath]

The former sounds like GEN-CO

If Ra hadn't shown up and went "holdup you fuckos"

[torpid viper]

Ohh, GEN-CO team, where nobody's sure who's an NHP and who's a human, since all team members interact using incredibly heavy AR, at least enough to make a subaltern look human, and vis-versa.

[empty kraken]

You joke but unironically yes

[tacit heath]

Very much so, yes

[empty kraken]

UIB like "what do you MEAN they let the math demons just PILOT MECHS ON THEIR OWN"

"Boss. They pay the math demons to pilot mechs on their own."

[tacit heath]

Firm believers in due recompense

[barren pendant]

Weirdly enough one of the things I'm least sure about is how many 'notable teams' would be good

[halcyon thorn]

I have an ironleaf foundry question:
Someone I was talking to about the Silversword's Ka-Chunk action was wondering if you could use Overcharge or other forms of bonus actions to use Ka-Chunk multiple times before firing the weapon, adding extra d6es and knockback each time
I assume the intent is that ka-chunk does not stack

[opal forum]

(Ka-Chunk is a very fun name)

[rustic root]

I'm still not sure why it's ka-chunk

I've always seen/heard the shotgun racking noise as ka-chack

[halcyon thorn]

(They may be planning an everest build that ka chunks 4 times or something before shooting its gun)

[barren pendant]

Yes, you can.

[barren pendant]

That's fair. Onomatopoeia are tricky.

[barren pendant]

It's a lot of work but I mean, you're spending a quick action for +1d6 damage. It's not that much better unless the target is pretty armoured compared to just shooting an AR again 😛

[rustic root]

I'm imagining a super soaker tbh

[halcyon thorn]

Yeah, that's very fair
An interesting idea might be Ka-Chunk on the Mistletoe's Dueling Pistol
Dueling Pistol's autocrit is clearly intended for crackshot 3 disabling effects but with crack shot 2, opcal and ka-chunk you'll be hitting mad hard rerolling all those damage dice
And then Gunslinger 3 💀

[barren pendant]

Yeah. Dueling Pistol is designed around being kinda mediocre on its own but having massive synergy with Gunslinger and Crack Shot.

[rustic root]

a query. DFG Wrath's core power says it unloads all your weapons. MO&S Holiday has some systems that say they count as weapons for things that load or unload weapons. My question is thus: does using All The Guns unload my Backoff Propellant Additive, and if so, do I get an extra d6 out of the deal or has Amazon scammed me once again?

[barren pendant]

@carmine nymph

[wide pier]

So... if you're slinging, it's cracked? :V

[honest meteor]

Kind of wondering what's a Scilla's gameplan against a Sniper other than tanking it face on with a big fat HP? Scilla seems like a combo with Luin Celtchair and Ka-Chunk for the big knockbacks.

[barren pendant]

The Scilla can provide cover to anyone under it so it can hover over to anyone Marked by a sniper and go 'nope, no structuring for you'

(Though they are themselves rather vulnerable to it)

[honest meteor]

yeah the self-vulnerability is what i'm worried about.

I guess their gameplan is to just pack Frag's Warding core bonus.

[barren pendant]

Preternatural Reflexes can dodge it.

As they are a character in sensors.

[honest meteor]

Oh, alright, so that means Scilla also can buff its own armour.

[barren pendant]

Yep!

[honest meteor]

Fun.

I just can't help but be amused by taking Ka-chunk and Luin Celtchair for a burst 2 of pain.

[barren pendant]

But yeah, as a defender the Scilla's weakness is that it's kinda a Big Target itself/has a hard time not being a target to shoot. XD

[honest meteor]

on top of resonance shockwave.

[barren pendant]

If you get within range 10 you can also Fusion Interdiction Module a Sniper's Gun

On the topic of the Scilla, being a LOT more experienced with Regular Lancer than Battlegroup, I'm very iffy on the Battlegroup stats I gave it. I'm not inexperienced with battlegroup but it's a bit of a difference in amount of playtime between the two.

[honest meteor]

Mmm, I could also consider Winding Woods for a portable softcover.

Silversword stuff seems like a good complement with Scilla.

Cratermaker is also pretty tempting with Scilla, although that's 2 licenses in.

[carmine nymph]

Y’all don’t know how to ask easy ones, do you? By raw text, it looks like the worst of all worlds. It counts weapons (which BACKOFF isn’t), and unloads weapons (which BACKOFF says it follows).

Was this intentional? Nope. I’d probably word it differently now that I’m thinking about that corner case. Unfortunately, that’s how the text that is in the book works

[rustic root]

Damn, Amazon got me once again 😦

[naive iris]

Precision Plasma Channel doesn't go through Intangibility, right?

[zenith niche]

It ignores anything that would keep you from targeting or make a miss chance. I think Intangible counts? As long as you crit, of course

[barren pendant]

It does but if you fail to crit, you're not doing squat 😛

[old wave]

What about enemies that are out of LOS or even range as both of those prevent targeting too?

[fading jewel]

TBH if it's capable of piercing through dimensions I'm sure it can shoot a bit further and shoot through a wall

[old wave]

Still worth checking

[zenith niche]

I think it has to be within range, but can ignore everything else on crit

Otherwise, we get the hilarious imagery of a battalion of Ptolemy frames standing on Agartha’s outer shell nuking targets randomly throughout the galaxy. Harrison who?

[fading jewel]

It just shoots in a direction and the laser just somehow hits its target how many years down the line

Don't worry about it

[barren pendant]

It still has to be within range/LOS. That's not an Effect.

[mossy lotus]

Tom's mentioned that you don't have LOS while intangible. So... it ignores LOS loss if it's via something like Intangible or Blind, but not other forms of LOS loss?

[barren pendant]

Yeah. You're still bound by the basic rules of the game.

It's just Extra Things that don't ever apply.

[fleet steppe]

is atlas 2 okay with temperance frame

thinking it would be helpful for when I need to get within exploding range

[rustic root]

huh

it's spicier than I thought it was, then

[barren pendant]

https://twitter.com/Raionmimi/status/1647344547591061511 Iki's mood when writing Ironleaf Foundry.

✨🇮🇪 World's No.1 Medb Fan🇮🇪✨ (@Raionmimi)

Conchobar mac Nessa deserves to have every single bad thing possible happen to him daily for all eternity tbh

Fuck Conchobar, all my homies hate Conchobar

Twitter · Apr 15, 2023, 9:02 PM

[karmic gull]

i dont know anything about this dude. how bad was he

[barren pendant]

Okay, so you know Medb?

[karmic gull]

bits and pieces yeah

[barren pendant]

This is his original husband. He (Content Warning: Seriously) ||Both beat and raped her.|| He's the reason the thing she asked her future lovers to swear on is 'To be without fear, meanness, or jealousy'.

Medb is the antagonist of Cu's story but she's really got fucking good reasons for hating Ulster, Conchobar's land.

There's a good reason this is where he gets namedropped in Ironleaf Foundry.

In the 'If someone crosses you, beat the shit out of them' action.

On the plus side: He died fucking hilariously.

He got so mad his brain exploded.

[karmic gull]

wow.

[barren pendant]

He also often gets treated as a 'good king' because the reason he got So Butthurt He Died is because he heard Jesus Died but...no, fuck that guy.

[old wave]

And if you want to be maximally annoying with it have a False Idol on you, be Invisible or better still under a Diluvian Ark and have hard cover

[old wave]

Yeah, definitely, being that religious really does not correlate with being a good person at all

[barren pendant]

Yeah, he's one of those characters that while I love including random Cattle Raid and Book of Invasions characters in my work...no, that fucker isn't getting included save as a 'Fuck this guy, he sucks'.

[naive iris]

thats a good defender action

[barren pendant]

To lay cards on the table, it's very much inspired by the D&D 4e Paladin's Divine Mark. XD

Where you went 'You, chucklefuck. We're fighting now or I'm going to beat the shit out of you'

[graceful kayak]

I've played/watched too much King of Dragon Pass to not consider Cattle Raids as Sports Season for Orlanthi tribes.

[violet island]

If yall were to portray a Rasputin as an NPC would you just have 4 1 structure NPC's in a trench coat?

just change the npc each time?

[karmic gull]

I'd just use a Goliath tbh

[violet island]

while my first instinct as well, I feel like it doesnt engage with the whole size changing thing

[naive iris]

4 structure is quite a bit, esp on a goliath, is this supposed to be a centerpiece / ultra

Id probably do 3 structure of a low hp npc, or a 2 structure goliath that goes size 3 -> size 1

[fleet steppe]

any advice for what the last 1 SP I could take for this mech I cobbled together?

-- DOWNFALL TEMPERANCE @ LL9 --
[ LICENSES ]
  DOWNFALL AVARICE 2, DOWNFALL WRATH 1, IPS-N CALIBAN 2, IPS-N RALEIGH 1, C&H SHEPHERD 1, SSC ATLAS 2
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Miniaturization, Sloped Plating, Kangto Endochassis
[ TALENTS ]
  DEMOLITIONIST 3, Grease Monkey 3, Spotter 3, SHADOWCLOAKED 2, HOUSE GUARD 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:6 AGI:0 SYS:0 ENGI:5
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:25 ARMOR:3
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:11 REPAIR:7
  TECH ATK:-2 LIMITED:+2
  SPD:5 EVA:9 EDEF:9 SENSE:8 SAVE:17
[ WEAPONS ]
  FLEX MOUNT: Pistol / Tactical Webbing
[ SYSTEMS ]
  BB Breach/Blast Charges x5, CHESS System, Claymore x4, JÄGER KUNST I, Personalizations, SPIKE CHARGES x4```

[naive iris]

armament redundancy, Dustgrave Gms system

protects tactical webbing if you get structured

unless its got another clause about not blowing up the grenades on structure

jaeger kunst temperance is spooky

triple backflip across the map and slam a charge in someones face

[old wave]

Armament Redundancy would definitely be a good addition, and you seem to have a lot of head management capability without any heat generating systems, planning on Overcharging a lot?

[zenith niche]

CHESS is love, CHESS is life

[old wave]

It is indeed an awesome system, just uses up SPs that could go to something else

[zenith niche]

True. I usually use it in combination with NukCav, Heartburn, or a lot of overcharging

[fleet steppe]

could swap chess out but tbh I don't know what license to swap wrath to

[prisma zenith]

Gang gang

[barren pendant]

Yay!

[prisma zenith]

It looks great next to the CRB. I hope we get more Lancer print books.

[mossy lotus]

I can't imagine that's likely, just based on the absolute nightmare it increasingly seems to have become. Electronic distribution just cuts that out entirely.

[rustic root]

also that costs money

like a lot

[graceful kayak]

Yeah I like having books but they are hell to print

[halcyon thorn]

A friend of mine just realized some Madness you could pull off with Liminal Space and Ironleaf-
Mistletoe with Oz/Silver Shuffle
Reload and then Fire the Misteltein for free whenever you boost, for 1 heat
They were thinking boost, misteltein, wristgun skirmish, but personally I'm thinking Combined Arms with the Silvernoose for Maximum Cowboy Action

[barren pendant]

Please no, please no break my things 😛

(There's a reason IF wasn't included in LS. We'd not checked Interaction Nonsense there)

[graceful kayak]

for every interactions like that found, the better!

[halcyon thorn]

I mean, hey!
At least Oz/Silver doesn't allow bonus damage, so no roland chamber or gunslinger 3 nonsense
But yeah, very fair

[barren pendant]

But yeah, this is sorta why I generally caution against mixing homebrew without a lot of care.

Even Two Things Iki Was Involved In don't have a 100% check that stuff works out okay.

[halcyon thorn]

Oh yeah, that's the rule I go by myself
I may be allowing Ironleaf in the Liminal Space game I'm prepping for, but that's only if all the players are also onboard

[barren pendant]

Oh cool! Do tell me how it goes!

I like Ironleaf but since Liminal Space was gunna be In A Book I'm Selling For Real Money it got the lion's share of testing so far.

With most IF stuff having some testing but not as much as I'd like.

[halcyon thorn]

I will do my best to get some feedback, then
That is, if I can convince my Usual Players to actually use LS mechs instead of D/D Zhengs and Fusion Rifle Tokus

[graceful kayak]

Caution Is Always Advised when combining third parties.

[barren pendant]

Yep, even if they're made by the same person XD

[graceful kayak]

I use a LOT of homebrews, mainly NPCs, but NPCs are less of an issue generally.

[naive iris]

Ideal NPC roster:
Veteran Pistolero
Veteran Slinger (IGF)
Veteran Triggerman (Interpoint)
Size 2 Support Lancaster

call that 3 cowboys and a horse

[halcyon thorn]

Pistolero, Squad, Iron Maiden
Call that judge jury and executioner

[karmic gull]

use suldan and LS together

make a Scrapper Scrapper

[halcyon thorn]

Smartblade Jack 😋

[naive iris]

Industrial Security Leech

move 6, free action range 3 grapple

[barren pendant]

We call that 'A Scab'

[naive iris]

automatic 6 + 4 damage barrage

[karmic gull]

Orbital Strike Reaper Dart.

range 15, line 5, seeking ap reliable 3.

[naive iris]

Kangto Rasputin

wtf 5 mechs

[barren pendant]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rVzcONuwhXyLpdhgY4RMtkewPha8kmS1tZL3G00pXlc/edit?usp=sharing Still got 2 left to do but MOSTLY done with the 'notable teams' for the Ironleaf Foundry big mech arena contest.

The plan is to have 7 named, character teams to easily slot in among more generic ones.

[karmic gull]

mfecane team

hell yeah fuck yeah

[barren pendant]

I ran things past Shaka on that front, as I wanted to get his permission first/let him see the group before I let other see it in case stuff needed tinkering.

(I play very careful with other people's work, even when just giving them a small shoutout)

[fading jewel]

Why did they take the sleeping NHP with extreme PTSD and put it in a sword again

[barren pendant]

Because MOI at their core don't really see NHP's as people. Like, younger generations are better on that from but MOI as a company...every single NHP they have has some element of 'Oh wow, you're treating them awfully/not respecting their wishes'.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/09/e7/c6/09e7c629865f3a10e439e1ca9e65aa56--healthy-mind-monkeys.jpg

MOI handling NHPs

[fading jewel]

Well yeah but, how did they come to the conclusion that the best use for Nuada was to slap them inside the space-ripping sword

[barren pendant]

Mostly because the particular form Nuada's trauma takes is that of being shoved through a rip in space and they figured that the best way to make use of that Trauma was to put him in an object that uses that trauma to re-enact it regularly.

'We fucked up an NHP so it can only focus on the worst thing that ever happened to it.'
'...yeah but is that worst thing useful?'

The MOI developers didn't see Nuada as 'a Traumatized person', they saw Nuada as 'A tool that only has one use now' and designed a weapon around that use.

If that remotely makes sense @fading jewel?

[fading jewel]

Yeah that makes sense

[barren pendant]

MOI are designed to be ethically...they're the worst aspects of Liberalism.

They'll make gestures towards Liking Good Things but they are more than happy to just let terrible shit happen if it keeps them comfortable.

Likewise they often don't really care much about Individual People. They're 100% the sort to talk happily about how Average Standard Of Living has greatly improved...while also calling cops to get a homeless guy out of their sight.

They won't engage in Colonialism...they'll just happily buy from and sell to those who do.

[torpid viper]

Ah yes. Liberalism, as a philosophy/abstract set of values, is pretty solid other than the “Capitalism is needed for freedom” thing most of the strains have, “individual rights and democracy” are generally good. In practice though…

[barren pendant]

Yep

...honestly, I can't explain MOI better than Disco Elysium can XD

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EMLMwJvXYAIaEh3.png

Like, Disco Elysium's targeting of Moralism is exactly what I had in mind when designing MOI.

[naive iris]

calling the other political factions weird so I can get back to taking my WIZARD DRUGS 😎

Union DoJ Liberations teams? Seccom Holdouts? I just want to grill Sail the Astral Sea for godsake.

[torpid viper]

… ah yes. Centrism.

Though hmm. In this essay I will lay out 3rd Comm Union’s position as an idealized liberal hegemonic system, one that rules by consent and is fairly successful in improving individual lives…

[barren pendant]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rVzcONuwhXyLpdhgY4RMtkewPha8kmS1tZL3G00pXlc/edit?usp=sharing Still got 1 left to do but nearly done with the 'notable teams' for the Ironleaf Foundry big mech arena contest.

[barren pendant]

@light ravine. The thread in question.

[light ravine]

Awesome! Thank you

[mossy lotus]

There are many wonderful treasures hidden within this forum.

[halcyon thorn]

Question about Ouroboros Supply Systems: If you used it with a loading weapon that also costed Heat, would the self-Heat also get negated by the 'choose to forego any additional effects of the system' clause?
Asking for the Vulcan Gauss Cannon

Currently working on a Phoenix/Barbarossa build all about getting as many dudes Staked with the Vulcan as possible with External Ammo Feeds

[barren pendant]

Yeah it's basically a 'Nah, didn't happen'

The only effect is 'You spent the action'

[halcyon thorn]

Very nice 👀

[barren pendant]

I'm also feeling a bit bad about what I'm writing. Writing a fragment of an essay by just the WORST fucker. Which is kinda hard to write without getting into his mindset and that's not pleasant. XD

[barren pendant]

And got it finished. This is for the third of the IF Flashpoints and by far the darkest (The other two don't have content warnings, this one does).

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wd6xZYDMQPlf-S46ZDkFclITWetTDjMZqQLs_HTZ1w8/edit?usp=sharing

Content Warning: If 'Eugenics Assholes' or 'Medical Horror' is a trigger for you, really not a good flashpoint for that.

But yeah, this is a mix of 'Iki making notes to flesh out later' and 'Writing up the Main Asshole for this'.

[rustic root]

Well, good job with the quote establishing tone

I am, tbh, one of those people who don't take issue with eugenics in and of itself as a concept, but this guy is clearly not the type I would at all trust with it.

[barren pendant]

No one who believes in Eugenics should be allowed to breed /s

😛

(I have too much fun with that joke)

But yeah, I kinda wanted to do a 'Hey, remember: SSC are just as bastard-y as the other corps' flashpoint.

[rustic root]

Okay but like, what does it mean to "believe in eugenics"? It's not a philosophy in itself.

[barren pendant]

(It's entirely just a joke about how stopping someone breeding would itself be a form of eugenics)

But yeah, the general overview of the flashpoint (As you can sorta tell from the working name) is 'Bloodborne: Mech Edition'. Mechs being sent in to fight Biomechanical Monsters and Rescue People. XD

[rustic root]

I mean, Anor London sounds more dark souls than Bloodborne

But yeah I got that vibe

[barren pendant]

https://i.redd.it/yd5b01wkvff61.jpg

One of the big memes going about for a while after Bloodborne came out

It's sorta designed to give a bit more of a 'general unambiguous fighting' flashpoint. As the other two are 'Fey Otherworld Journey' and 'Arena Brawls'

Both have combat but they're not really the more standard lancer sort of combat.

This is designed to be the most 'Yeah, here are bad things and you can just shoot them dead'

So I'm not exactly being subtle with the Type of Wanker the guy behind this one is.

Sorry for rambling @rustic root

...also, I'm 100% having a fucker like this call his failed Decorp experiments 'Morlocks'. He is 100% the sort to do that.

[rustic root]

No worries

[tacit heath]

Hey now, no tolerance for the intolerant works too ;V

Social contract vs universal rule etc

[rustic root]

I think Eugenics isn't bad inherently, but as something that is inherently done by people, to people, for something, there's a lot of failure points where it can be very easily twisted into something nasty

[barren pendant]

As someone with Autism and how that has traditionally been handled by Eugenics movements...yeah not a fan XD

[rustic root]

To their credit, SSC is one of the only examples I can think of in fiction where they can plausibly say that their Eugenics isn't inherently awful... most of the time.

[rustic root]

yeah that's valid!

I just, hmm

the "people who believe in eugenics" thing has been sticking in the back of my head

because like it's hard for me to really sort out what that means, and depending on how you define it that could plausibly include me because I don't think it's inherently evil as a concept

So I've been trying to sort out what my thoughts on the subject are, exactly

I think one thing that makes SSC's eugenics more palatable than a lot of others, imo, is that there is the option to just opt in or out. The ability to choose whether to participate in such a thing is very meaningful, in my eyes, and makes it feel less... inherently dystopian compared to those settings where it's just applied to everyone whether they like it or not.

and to bring it back around on topic, the villain of the flashpoint draft gives the very strong impression that they are not the type of person to respect or offer such choice.

...I feel like I've made the chat awkward, sorry about that.

[violet island]

I think, and this is likely not the place for the discussion, but eugenics as a concept at face value, seems sensible, but its history and potential for marginalization surrounding perceived inadequacies colors it very poorly from a critical perspective

[barren pendant]

I also just think it makes for scary antagonists. XD

[violet island]

I think what I like from an antogonistic perspective is how its not a "now" problem, which can add layers to the villain

[rustic root]

I don't know if that's what makes him scary, but it's certainly not helping lol

[violet island]

like some villains are or espouse "now" problems, which triggers dramatic intervention, but also lend itself to more emotional and less considered antagonists; while an antagonist creating a "later" problem suggests an antagonist with a plan and a will to execute it

which is fun to play with narratively

[rustic root]

TBH I think a large part of being "scary", at least in the context of a game like lancer, does require being a "now" problem

like "I am going to make lots of problems approximately 100 years down the line" is concerning

but it doesn't evoke the kind of feelings I'd associate with the term "scary"

Now on the other hand, when someone has already pulled of their "problems later" plan and we are now at the point of "Later", that's terrifying

[halcyon thorn]

I'm still thinking about ways to build a Phoenix
Is it just me or is the heat it puts out with its guns kind of.... immaterial?
You're already doing like 4d6 damage per shot with the Helen while Nuclear Cavalier is up, I feel like most things are gonna die before the heat actually does anything
Am I overthinking how important the extra heat on its guns is supposed to be? Is its niche just 'main sniper that eats heat for breakfast'

[violet island]

its just extra damage on things with no heat cap

and if someone else heated something up before hand, you could be pushing them over into "gets exposed" category

which then doubles your damage

[torpid viper]

I’m not certain NucCav works with Phoenix, since the damage trait is kinetic only.

[halcyon thorn]

If you overheat someone with a Helen shot, does the damage from that same shot get boosted?

Also.............. huh, that's right
For some reason I thought only the bonus damage from nuccav was energy, not turning the whole attack into it
.........I wonder if you could turn it back into kinetic using Walking Armory to get both traits going off

[torpid viper]

I don’t know how the sequencing works. You might also be able to apply the trait and then NucCav?

[halcyon thorn]

According to Ru you can pick the order in which it happens to have either energy or whatever damage type the ammo uses

[torpid viper]

(Phoenix’s kinetic only stuff is honestly my biggest issue with it.)

[halcyon thorn]

Phoenix is turning out weirder than I though, yeah

I do love the idea of 'I shoot heat at you' though

[violet island]

Heat gun

[torpid viper]

If it didn’t have the slight feel issue of turning off with the obvious synergy, I’d love it.

[halcyon thorn]

Another funny idea I had was Magician's Cane, which does 3 burn and 3 heat, with White Phosphorus from Acedia
3 burn 6 heat 😋
Limited 2 is a slight issue though

[steady halo]

Just use the Gluttony
ll7 build

[torpid viper]

Worst part is that it's worded just ambiguously enough that it's honestly unclear if NucCav 2 is supposed to have major downsides for the Phoenix.

@empty kraken For the Phoenix, is it's trait intended to be capable of stacking with Nuclear Cavalier 2? I'm not sure whether to read it as requiring an attack that a) is done with a ranged weapon, and b) with some kinetic component, or just one done with a ranged kinetic-doing weapon, even if the final damage type gets changed.

Also, is it intended that the Phoenix needs to commit to using its trait on attack, not on hit like other bonus damage traits?

[empty kraken]

Intended to stack, intended to commit

[torpid viper]

Cool! Probably a fair balance point, since the Phoenix gets... a lot.

[empty kraken]

You're overthinking it, but don't underestimate it. The reports I've gotten back in since release have been glowing about the mixed damage

She's hard to shut out

[torpid viper]

A NucCav Helen with conduction rounds is 6 heat.

2 of those will ruin an Ultra's day.

Throw in a hacker friend and you can pretty consistently expose even high-heat cap targets, like Goliaths.

[honest meteor]

THe damage trait is for a weapon that deals kinetic damage as a base, no?

So you can get a weapon with kinetic damage and Nuc Cav takes over after the damage trait.

I've been thinking of building a Phoenix too.

[halcyon thorn]

I've started barking up another tree RE: heatcap striker
Carmilla/Phoenix
Combined arms, huck some knives at a dude, if either hit invade using Carmilla's passive to do some heat and disabling, then hit em with the Conduction Rounds Helen

[honest meteor]

now that makes me wonder.

Is it even possible to build an Invade Clover with Mircalla-Class Module for invade+Lock on and then punch?

oh Clover is -1 Tech attack.

[halcyon thorn]

Might wanna look at balor 1 for Scanner swarm!

[honest meteor]

Mmm, that'll take LL7 to get going then.

Since Mircalla module is Carmilla 3

unless I skip Setanta

On the other hand, Mircalla isn't Limited.

[halcyon thorn]

This also opens up the obscene bosskiller which is Reactor Override->Vulcan
4 heat each turn, and you probably gave them like 4 more just landing those two

[honest meteor]

Amusingly enough, I'm also considering a closer look at a CQB Scilla with Blazer SMG

Size 3 with the heatcap space to keep dumping 3 targets with reliable 2's.

[barren pendant]

Zappy

[honest meteor]

Also trying to get a Lesson of Held Image Clover build, but it's hard to be satisfied with most of the Horus licenses beside Efreet. That and Reactive Brace Clover seems pretty darn good with a War Pike and Kinetic Driver for the Threat.

[ LICENSES ]
  IF CLOVER 3, HORUS EFREET 3
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  The Lesson of the Held Image, Overpower Caliber
[ TALENTS ]
  Duelist 3, Hunter 2, Skirmisher 2, PANKRATI 2
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:0 SYS:2 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:21 ARMOR:2
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:10 REPAIR:7
  TECH ATK:+1 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:4 EVA:8 EDEF:8 SENSE:10 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  FLEX MOUNT: Qublade // Overpower Caliber
  MAIN MOUNT: Kinetic Driver
  AUX/AUX MOUNT: Silver Hand / Silver Hand
[ SYSTEMS ]
  SETANTA-Class NHP x2, Rope-A-Dope, Metafold Shunt, Entanglement Leash, Personalizations```

If someone is being particularly annoying to approach but low e-def, Entanglement Leash and I can just Lock on and punch merrily out of range.

Bracing to both Lock on and Teleport beside the target as well, with Pankrati getting all the bonuses if the target end up prone.

[barren pendant]

Smashy

[honest meteor]

On successful invades it also means I can keep my distance and not risk being Grappled while charging the Shining Finger.

Still, 😔 1 Tech attack at LL6.

[barren pendant]

I'll admit I don't know the Efreet's stuff that well.

[honest meteor]

Basically Entanglement Leash means on a successful invade I can make melee attacks regardless of Range, as long as I get LoS.

So I don't have to approach that Demolisher if I don't want to.

Metafold Shunt teleports me adjacent to the attacker if I brace and knocks them prone.

So it's perfect for the Kinetic Driver punishment.

[barren pendant]

Very fun

Evil

[barren pendant]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wd6xZYDMQPlf-S46ZDkFclITWetTDjMZqQLs_HTZ1w8/edit?usp=sharing Alrighty, the third of the Ironleaf Foundry Flashpoints is actually done! (You know, minus feedback/rewriting stuff here). As I've said before: This one is much more on the horror/icky end so it might not be for everyone but I hope it seems interesting.

I wanted to write a flashpoint that is much more of a 'hey, you wanna fight horrible shit and not feel bad about it? Yeah, here we go.' with the other two being less 'Unambiguous heroes'.

And as you can tell, I still need to work out an Actual Name for it as it's still under the working name 😛

[fading jewel]

Me when an enemy is looking a bit too alive:

Osiris + Mordred is a fun build

[barren pendant]

Hahahah

That's a LOT of investment.

But yeah, you get to point at a guy and say 'I think you shouldn't exist any more'

[fading jewel]

Yeah it does need some investment but it can come online as early as LL6 which is good enough for me

[barren pendant]

Yeah. LL6 is sorta the sweet spot for 'reasonable to expect in a game'

Also: Finished that flashpoint, now with Actual Names instead of the placeholder (Though Discord might take a while to update that)

[little wadi]

Oof hard choices, tenderizer or nanocarbon on a sekhmet build

Wait how the heck does the annihilator reactor work with sekment

[barren pendant]

The extra attack is gunna eat up a LOT of extra reactor mass XD

[little wadi]

But it’s a ranged attack can you still do it ?

[barren pendant]

I'd say no. Sekhmet Gluttony is likely not a great synergy with each other.

[little wadi]

The cat can’t get out the reactor hairball

Poor sekhmet

[violet island]

Hmm what's the skinny on the Tepes? What's it generally trying to do?

[fading jewel]

Its gameplan?

[rustic root]

Violence

[violet island]

Yeah, I'm guessing it wants to stab things and hack things right

But beyond that

[fading jewel]

Quick Tech an ally, or two with Mircalla, to rid them of some conditions then Invade with Mind Bite to pass those conditions to an enemy

And Overcharge sometimes

Also I'm not really sure where you got the stabbing things from, it doesn't really strike(heh) me as a striker

Guess the Overcharge and heat clearing gimmick is there to encourage you to use a Tech Action on two allies even without Mircalla and still be able to use Mindbite

[violet island]

Mostly because it's art depicts it with a rapier and the alt is for its a shoot-to-invade, so I was under the impression this was a more stabby alt

[fading jewel]

Oh no it's role is Controller/Support and its job is to take conditions from its allies and throw them back at the enemy

It's remarkably simple in its gameplan, but the question is what are you gonna do when your allies don't have any conditions

[violet island]

Hmm so no melee hacker vibes

Mmk

Ty!

[fading jewel]

Np mate

[violet island]

Transparency wise, I'm looking at various mechs that do melee and hacks because player may want to try one next

[fading jewel]

Oh, I'd recommend the Lust on that part then

It has a damage trait that combos well with TTT

And lore wise it's a combination of both Goblin and Atlas so,

[rustic root]

Within the bounds of LimSpace right?

[violet island]

Oh nah, I also pointed them to look at the rak lol

[fading jewel]

Rak?

[rustic root]

Rakshasa, melee techer from #1059732032659390544

[fading jewel]

I see

[rustic root]

As the person who made it, it's always the first melee tech frame I think of when someone asks for those lol

Within LimSpace tho, Camilla is pretty cool

[fading jewel]

Do you have a PDF of Omission of Terror?

[rustic root]

Nope, that's still in the "actually being put together" phase rn. Player side mechanics are feature complete tho, and I have a gdoc for sharing rakshasa's license

Also a playtest LCP

[fading jewel]

Ah I see

[rustic root]

If you're interested, I can link the doc over in OoT's thread, since it would be a bit rude to advertise much in someone else's place.

[violet island]

atm they've not expressed an explicit interest in what I've forwarded to them, but have independently become enamored with the donner (not from a hacking perspective ofc)

which i find funny

[fading jewel]

Ah yeah I am interested actually,

And thanks in advance

[rustic root]

On the topic of LimSpace

I just wanna say that Ptolemy is so good

[violet island]

carmilla i noticed they looked at but didn't like... go deep on it atm. They're in a flamel doing nexus crimes for now

but i know they'll switch next mission

i have a ptolemy pilot!

they're not using the plasma channel heavy though

they went superheavy life

[rustic root]

I don't think I'll ever manage to make anything that evokes such an immediate "oh I want that" as seeing Ptolemy did for me, and actually playing it did not disappoint.

[fading jewel]

Favorite thing in LimSpace has got to be Exacerbator Gauntlets

Just like Mmm juicy powerful punch fists of thunder

[rustic root]

PPC for me, though after the Ptolemy and it's gear, Wrath license is very cool

CHESS my beloved

[fading jewel]

Oh shit yeah CHESS is certainly a close second to Exac Gauntlets

[rustic root]

CHESS and, frankly, the entire Justice Frame

Why yes I would like a threat 3 Krakatoa Thermobaric Flamethrower, thank you for asking.

[violet island]

i do think its funny that the ptolemy has a very "Oh no, the consequences of my choices" vibe

in that its very strong

but folds like a wet towel

[covert iron]

Man I love CHESS

[violet island]

it can sometimes be horrifying just how much output the orbital laser puts out

[rustic root]

Tbh

My Ptolemy build wasn't particularly vulnerable

I got to run it through the a whole mission and the only time I ever took structure was when I Exposed myself and then the Ultra Ronin teleported in behind me

Which, uh, I feel is not very indicative, because who doesn't take a structure in that situation?

[violet island]

my own player is not a high fluency player (part of why they went superheavy, for easier turns)

but as i understand it part of hte core design intent

was glass cannony

[rustic root]

Oh yeah, I've seen Iki say as much

[violet island]

its a bit ironic that they are playing at LL8 going on 9 but are generally pretty low fluency as far system play. They're not bad by any measure, but don't go for more complex interactions and so on

[rustic root]

But like, I just have Flicker Field and Persos and play close to cover and it mostly works out

If I'm doing my job right the enemy are too dead to shoot me :V

[zenith niche]

Or too busy desperately taking cover

[violet island]

cover?

cover?

the orbital laser doesn't care about cover

[karmic gull]

Ptolemy looks fun but I keep going back to ned

3 armor five speed size 2 with grapple reactions my beloved

[violet island]

i think the liminals im most interested in playing are the Amakusa, the Zhouyan, the Holiday, the Rasputin

Zahaak also seems fun

oh and Justice

[rustic root]

Amakusa is very cool, I just don't like Loading melee weapons so that kinda dings a few points

10/10 NHP tho

[obtuse willow]

zou yan my beloved 😌

[torpid viper]

I want to build a melee Misiletoe with the LL1 weapons.

Maybe dive into Tort for the hammer.

[empty kraken]

Yee, and I cannot stress to you enough the deadly gravity of my intent, haw.

[rustic root]

NGL that is some of the best weapon flavor

Just, ever

[empty kraken]

One tries

[halcyon thorn]

RE: favorite LS mechs, Kelly is not only my favorite mech in the LS catalogue, but probably my favorite Lancer mech in any content pack period
3 armor + melee focus is an instant 10/10

[obtuse willow]

kelly is just supremely well-statted

a thicc lad

[violet island]

id like to play kelly purely because ram god supreme stuff

just be a big bully

ram, grapply, ram

my guns? for show

[halcyon thorn]

What I really wanna do
Is Kelly/Zheng
Snag someone on the fishing line with overwatch, and when my turn comes up just spike them into the nearest wall with TSS3

[violet island]

ah, but kelly VS zheng

its armstrong vs curtis

[barren pendant]

The Carmilla's thing is basicly 'They have the ability to pick their poison with hacking, since they do it on melee/ranged attacks instead of tech atacks'. A Smart Weapon and a Non-Smart Weapon means 'I can whap your lowest defense', which is a LOT of effective bonus.

As well as being really fucking good with tech actions that are Save-based due to save target 11 + can force rerolls

[violet island]

oh, I think they'd LIKE the carmilla then, just that i don't know that it pulled them for whatever reason

They shift between a couple ideas

Their character is a junker drone queen to make it succinct, knows how to build a drone from scrap, her technophile nhp is a non deimosian emergent AI she accidentally created. She's become the party's hacker since then though

shes had her eye on the donner for forever but doesn't have a friend to front line with

[barren pendant]

The Ptolemy is 100% designed around:

https://media.tenor.com/Yq0pjSLO22MAAAAd/genius-oh-no.gif

'Hahah, look at how good I am as a sniper! Oh fuck, the enemy have realized I'm fragile and can only move in straight lines, help me!'

[opal forum]

I'm still so mad these shots aren't actually continuous

[barren pendant]

I'm glad you like the Kelly. I was seriously worried Kelly might not be very popular because while they've got great overall stats, they're a mech that isn't a hacker or a primary damage dealer.

[karmic gull]

It slings guns just fine and that's damage enough for me

Plus being able to blind dudes next to a size 2...

[violet island]

i think people don't recognize the value of a size 2 bully at a glance is all

(for the lurkers, it is valuable)

[barren pendant]

Yeah, the goal for it was to be very disruptive.

A very 'I can status effect people just fine and shots you put into me are a lot less valuable than shots you put into my allies so we're going to become Good Friends'

[violet island]

why hack to immobilize when I can just grab one of your friends and Crunch. Look, now they are controlled.

[halcyon thorn]

looks away from the Ronin's open ribcage, DSAS in one hand and GMS Tac Melee in another like a fork and knife

What do you mean it isn't a primary damage dealer?

[obtuse willow]

kelly can deal damage Fine, it's there to be a big annoying disruption and it does that perfectly

also, again, chunky as fuck statline

I'm still not sure whether I prefer kelly's or genghis' tbh

both are cracked

[violet island]

the cranked team, kelly, genghis, zheng, and.... who's number 4

[obtuse willow]

joint tie between iskander and tortuga, probably

since they are very similar

[violet island]

they all walk like this

https://tenor.com/view/add-up-gif-21288540

[halcyon thorn]

White Witch? Does '6 armor' count as part of its statline when it comes from a trait and not base

[obtuse willow]

WW's 6 edef and 4 heatcap is rough

it's definitely an honorable mention though

[torpid viper]

Kelley is... probably somewhat broken.

Like, the fact that it "lacks offence" isn't much of an issue when it gets such absurd stats and traits. And offence is fixable, particularly since it really likes classics like the DSAS.

[obtuse willow]

I mean

at the end of the day kelly is basically a tortuga that traded its heavy mount for a bit better stats and more broadly-applicable (if specialized) traits

I'm not convinced that's a good enough of a trade for it to be 'broken'

especially since it gives up basically all hope of invade, which is a big tactical loss

[naive iris]

I could see the Rep Cap going down to 5, or the heat by 1

but its probably closer to "real strong mech" than "a problem", which is fine imo

[torpid viper]

Hmm. Lich-Kelly. Pull out the support.

Or HA Defender Kelly. Vlad Kelly also has some spice, it's got a decent save target.

[naive iris]

I wouldn't even say tortuga has less broadly applicable traits when prepared actions exist tbh

[obtuse willow]

it kind of depends on your perspective of prepared actions

I view the good old eject power cores prepared invade gambit as being too cheesy for me

[naive iris]

I think if you use them your gm gets to throw you down a well 😎

[obtuse willow]

if it's something you/your GM are cool with, yeah, tuga wins out

[torpid viper]

I think prepared actions are nowhere near as good people claim they are.

There's a pretty limited list of triggers, RAW.

[obtuse willow]

"a guy walks into my sensors and I get to jam him for 2 turns instead of 1" is supported by the rules and, uh, broken

[torpid viper]

Oh, true.

[naive iris]

I dont like how they can interrupt other actions either

[torpid viper]

Yeah, that is the one broken part.\

[naive iris]

for the cranked team

honestly?

Orchis stats are real good

[obtuse willow]

yeah orchis is swole

the one mount is a bit of a downer but it's a good mount

[naive iris]

only one mount

but it earns that mount

[obtuse willow]

BW is similarly pretty swole tbh

[naive iris]

Iskander is another mech that has pretty great stats all around

and some impressive traits / core

not great rep cap

[obtuse willow]

isk's statline is very similar to tuga's, I bring this up basically every time tuga gets mentioned haha

isk is a tuga that traded some durability for ST12 and a better reactor

which is a pretty fair trade

[naive iris]

and assault launcher is no slouch

[obtuse willow]

absolutely

[violet island]

The Kelly is built by moi to supply ungrateful right

[barren pendant]

Yep! Though to be precise, it's to supply the Ungrateful who are currently fighting HA. As there's really 2 ungrateful movements both using that name.

One the slaves of the KTB, the other colonists who are angry that HA has turned up and gone 'we own these worlds'

[torpid viper]

Yeah, I've got a Kelly pilot who's one of the Dawnline Ungrateful.

[karmic gull]

The dawnline ungratefuls are also supposedly a little bit astroturfed by the ktb

Using the ungrateful name to swipe some legitimacy

[barren pendant]

Yep, that's part of the Kelly's fluff. It was actually funded by the KTB for the Ungrateful to bloody HA's nose a bit without it being directly linked to them.

[steady halo]

it's also mo&s, not moi

[empty kraken]

MO&S like

"Don't think about it being the KTB funding it, don't think about it, don't think about it, I've been drinking my own blood for a month because we're out of money, it's FINE -"

[little wadi]

Is there anyway to use the flair naganata on the Raleigh and also use backswing cut more than like once in a blue moon

[opal forum]

What about slipping an RSU or External Ammo Feeds onto it?

[naive iris]

Its cause it breaks

[little wadi]

It’s not limited it breaks

[barren pendant]

OUROBOROS Resupply System from MO&S is really good with the Flare Naginata.

'I missed? Well, I'm not unloaded and can keep swinging'

[little wadi]

I suppose

Still that’s executioner 3 more more steps kinda

I think

[barren pendant]

I will say though: Yeah, the Flare doesn't have a tonne of Synergy with Backswing Cut.

[little wadi]

Can use you ex3 on a loading weapon if you miss now I’m not sure

[naive iris]

nope, its unloaded

its why the loading exotic in Wallflower only unloads on hit

[little wadi]

Makes sense

[naive iris]

don't think you can really get around backswing cut breakage

[barren pendant]

Actually, that's not right. It's a reroll, not a new attack.

So it's not unloaded and can Ex3 just fine.

[little wadi]

Yeah I thought so

[naive iris]

oh my bad then

[little wadi]

A limited system that let you repair in combat would be so cool

Especially on Raleigh

[barren pendant]

Entertainingly, that's something another of my homebrews does have but it didn't end up in Liminal Space. XD

[little wadi]

pain

[barren pendant]

Patch Kit
2 SP, Quick Action, 2 Heat(Self), Unique
Spend 1 Repair to restore all HP or repair a destroyed weapon or system.

“What, you think I’m down just because my blood’s mixing with the oil? I’m just getting fucking started!” -Aoife, IF Test Pilot

[little wadi]

The quick draw samurai is just such a cool side aesthetic for the cowboy Raleigh

https://tenor.com/view/give-me-give-it-to-me-now-gif-6486247

[barren pendant]

The Patch Kit is on the IF Poppy, which is sorta designed to use it really fucking well with:

METAFOLD ARMORY
The Poppy can Repair weapon systems without spending any Repairs.

'I have more guns than god, if you blow one up I'll grab another'

[little wadi]

Seems epic

[barren pendant]

The Poppy still needs to get art but it's so far proved one of the more popular IF mechs XD

OVERLAPPING CROSSFIRE
When the Poppy moves at least one space voluntarily during its turn, it assumes Overlapping Crossfire until the start of its next turn. Reactions cannot be taken against your first Rifle Weapon fired each turn in Overlapping Crossfire.

If a deliberately weird one. It has a rifle buff that actively prevents you using Crack Shot alongside it.

Since Crack Shot is a very limiting talent, the Poppy still gets some benefit when moving and shooting.

[obtuse willow]

poppy my beloved

we stan Gun Queen

[little wadi]

I think you’re loading heavy is still my favourite take Johnny

Melee that is

[barren pendant]

I do find it funny that the Poppy is likely the simplest mech I've made.

'Do you have weird tricks Poppy?'

'No, I've got a Heavy Mount and a 1/scene Second Heavy Weapon'

[obtuse willow]

https://tenor.com/view/marge-i-just-think-theyre-neat-the-simpsons-neat-potato-gif-8549864

[halcyon thorn]

A question about Feth Fiada:
By 'allowing you to hide', does this text mean you can now hide as if you are obscured by Hard Cover in all directions, or do you take the Hide action as part of using Shifting Mists?

[barren pendant]

The former

[halcyon thorn]

That's what I figured, but wanted to make sure

[torpid viper]

And also "And you don't get weird tricks" tool.

[barren pendant]

Hard cover is sufficient to HIDE as long as it is large enough to totally conceal you, but soft cover is only sufficient if you are completely inside an area or zone that grants soft cover – many systems and talents that grant soft cover or plain old obscurement just don’t provide enough to hide behind!

It's more or less to deal with this part of the hide rules.

As the hard cover granted doesn't really have a size

[obtuse willow]

it has actually been very surprising how often "I have too much gun for you to react to" has come up

especially since the gm of my poppy game uses limspace and suldan npcs

[barren pendant]

Terrified Ace Sounds

[halcyon thorn]

Feth Fiada seems wild with that core bonus thats 'you get 2 armor against attacks that suffer from hard cover'
You just get a Block button

[barren pendant]

Yep!

Feth Fiada is potent but the weakness is you're pre-spending on defense.

So you can spend the action and enemies can go 'Okay but what if I just...shoot someone else?'

Which will keep you alive, to be fair 😛

But it's not quite as good as reactive defense.

[halcyon thorn]

That's what Exemplar 3 is for
I've been wanting to play a Jack that just
Fucks Over One Guy
With Feth Fiada, GMS Shield, and Exemplar 3
Which is more or less its niche to be fair but

[torpid viper]

Even in core, it's nasty against... assaults, archers (sometimes), aces, ronins, and probably several more.

[obtuse willow]

"I can shoot a ronin without worrying about rebound" is actually very clutch

[barren pendant]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GpCU76kIRY I have been sent this by a friend in response to them reading the finished one of the IF flashpoints. XD

[honest meteor]

Scilla's attacks ignore height, but does its Overwatch threat trigger ignore height as well?

[barren pendant]

Yep!

The Scilla just Fucking Doesn't Care when it comes to height (Though it's likewise unable to use it to avoid attacks)

[honest meteor]

Mmm, but can Scilla ignore height for all other systems and reactions?

Such as Monitor Module triggers/SCYLLA

[barren pendant]

technically yeah, though the attack part still ignores height.

[honest meteor]

or mines deployment?

But yeah, also stuff like adjacency for allies too

[barren pendant]

The Scilla is in an awkward state of 'Iki hates height mechanics and wants them to go away but found it hard to word that shortly and concisely in a trait so only really made it apply for attacks'

😛

[honest meteor]

Because it seems like if I want adjacency I have to float at height 1 at all time with height 1 allies.

and even with House Guard, it's height 2 max.

[barren pendant]

Yeah. I really want to get a better wording for the Scilla but as you can see it's already a very wordy mech

[honest meteor]

and it'd be funny if allies can use a House Guard Scilla for hard cover

even when it's high above.

[barren pendant]

And trying to do so without it being like an entire 2-3 paragraphs is tricky XD

[honest meteor]

It's not as simple as "Scilla ignores height when it comes to measuring range for everything"?

WHat are some of the wordings that needs to be wary of?

[barren pendant]

The tricky part is how that works with dealing with Terrain/fitting through stuff.

[honest meteor]

ooh

Mmm.

The art did sorta have me imagine that it's like a jellyfish biomech or something.

[barren pendant]

It's the tricky thing of 'I want it to be able to fly over stuff but I do want it to also not really fuck around with height rules'

[topaz shoal]

Reading right, The Goalkeeper vulcan only uses the limited charge when it uses the reaction? or is it every time it is fired

[honest meteor]

yeah I see that now

[barren pendant]

Every time it's fired but you only use the limited charge if you succeed on the reaction.

[barren pendant]

Methinks this is why ICON just went 'look, flying just lets you ignore terrain, end of line' XD

[topaz shoal]

So you can fire it normally as many times as you want, but the charge only gets spent with the reaction?

[barren pendant]

Nah, nah. It's consumed for Negating An Attack or Shooting A Dude but you can make the roll to attempt to negate an attack without eating up a charge if you fail.

It's limited but Failures Don't Count.

[topaz shoal]

Ahh, even when it's charge is spent the reaction can still be used

neat

[honest meteor]

What's even the ruling of falling as a size on top of enemies/allies anyway.

Since Scilla is size 3 and still falls when Immobilized, I have a feeling it's going to happen sometimes.

[barren pendant]

It's one of those 'The rules don't quite cover that' things. XD

[topaz shoal]

I've been giving Ironleaf a read and I love what i see.

But right now i'm between using a Lily or a belladona. i'd be happy to hear opinions on play experience with either.

[honest meteor]

Crack Shot Scilla is one of the possibilities I was amusingly considering.

[barren pendant]

It was designed to sorta make make it tempting even if you're not going super heavy on limited.

By going 'yeah, even if you don't have that many uses, you won't waste any of them'

[barren pendant]

The Belladonna is a bit of a weird one as it is REALLY good with a lot of toys people don't always use. It's subtly a really good Grenadier.

As that's a non-weapon damage.

[topaz shoal]

THe basic build I made for LL6 with it was mostly me using Executioner 3 and Hunter 3. With Shock Knives from Metalmark for the free action knife throws. And 1 level in Black witch for ferrous lash to proc the trait.

Meanwhile my LL6 Lily test build is a very genetic "Fuck it we ball" Vanguard build, using the Gloriosa and cratermaker, coupled with Skirmisher 2 for some mobility. As well as slapping mines to myself on occasion (especially when i'm jammed).

Vanguard 1 giving me accuracy at range 3

[barren pendant]

Yeah, Executioner's Wide Cleave is 100% one of the 'non-weapon damages' it helps.

[topaz shoal]

...

it is?

[barren pendant]

It is!

As that's 3 damage coming from the talent, not the weapon.

[topaz shoal]

[barren pendant]

This is why the Monomolecular Scythe is a Heavy melee with to be frank, a pretty mediocre damage code 😛

[topaz shoal]

I wanted to be a agile scythe wielder with knives, hence the shock knives. And a rail rifle for range.

I figured the Hunter 3 attack would help pad out the damage of the monomolecular

[barren pendant]

The Belladonna was design-wise a bit of an attempt to do a very different sort of assassin. Less 'I do crazy damage to a single guy' and more that classic 'Hey, all those goons you brought? They're All Fucking Dead'

[topaz shoal]

Which as you said is pretty mediocre, it is irreduceable tho, which helps.

[honest meteor]

At least it still can work with Nuclear Cav and Ka-Chunk!

[barren pendant]

Yeah, the Belladonna isn't the Biggest Single Hit striker but when it does hit, you can't really stop the pain you're about to suffer.

[topaz shoal]

After getting 3 stressed in one go from a Witch in a Oneshot, I don't risk with Nuk cav anymore.
Ultra Witch with Overcharges man...T3 as well

Though, I like that all Ironleaf frames seem to have have a very generous heat cap

[barren pendant]

Yeah, IF likes heat rather a bit.

They're not HA level heat/limited focused but they're still big on 'Here is my big, costly toy'

As they're a very Spectacle-heavy corp

[topaz shoal]

So, can Lily reduce the heat from demon core to 1 using it's trait?

Or no, because it's essentially it's own thing. and not a forced effect per say

[barren pendant]

To 1? I think you might be looking at an older version.

[topaz shoal]

I might have gotten an old lcp

[barren pendant]

I think so, yeah.

The new version is much clearer.

UNRESTRAINED
The Lily can choose to be immune to hostile effects (but not costs to use a system or weapon) from non-hostile characters and ignores Engagement by characters larger than itself.

It's not able to be immune to the heat cost to yeet the Demon Core at people.

[topaz shoal]

isn't it part of blastwave rider

[barren pendant]

It ended up getting split off.

[topaz shoal]

I see

[barren pendant]

BLASTWAVE RIDER
1/Round when the Lily takes damage from a Blast, Burst, Line or Cone it can fly up to 5 spaces in any direction. This movement does not provoke reactions, ignores engagement and can still be made even if the Lily is Slowed or Immune to the effect.

UNRESTRAINED
The Lily can choose to be immune to hostile effects (but not costs to use a system or weapon) from non-hostile characters and ignores Engagement by characters larger than itself.

The lilly is immune to 'I dropped the Demon core at my own feet', it's not immune to 'the heat cost to use the demon core'

As it can't be immune to Costs.

But it can be immune to the other Effects

[topaz shoal]

Ah, so it doesn't reduce the damage to 1 anymore, but not take any

I see

[barren pendant]

Yeah, 1 damage ended up sorta 'this isn't worth tracking at higher levels and at lower levels is a lot of HP if you use it multiple times'

Which wasn't super fun in play for testers

[topaz shoal]

Gotcha

Is there any way to get an updated lcp?

[barren pendant]

Just a moment!

[topaz shoal]

Thank you so much!

[barren pendant]

@obtuse willow did this, so really thank them. XD

[topaz shoal]

Ah, I see it still has the "reduce heat and damage taken to 1" clause.

[barren pendant]

I am vaguely pondering changing the Scilla's wording to 'Is unaffected by height when affecting or being affected by other characters'. So it floats over Dangerous Terrain without caring but you can leap into the gravity wake and whack it with a hammer.

...huh...whoops, I guess the .lcp is a hair out of date. The wonders of 'constant tinkering' XD

[topaz shoal]

Happens

I oughta just grab the pdf

[barren pendant]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1f3GGtWnPhYAMICdsWlEUxfPpBhVhY8DsZJAyBxJ1PpM/edit?usp=sharing

Here you go. It's not yet in PDF as the Fluff side of it is still being worked on.

I've got 3 flashpoints, planet history etc to do

(Though one flashpoint is 100% complete if you want to look at it!)

[topaz shoal]

sees gloriosa is still 1d6+4
sighs in relief

[barren pendant]

Hahaha

The Gloriosa literally started as 'I want a Big Basic Shotgun'

And that wasn't going to really change

[honest meteor]

I did want to consider Scilla + Gloriosa for the double tapping on a Resonance/Gloriosa Barrage

[topaz shoal]

Wondering if I should opcal the Gloriosa or Autostab it. Though I suppose I have easier access to accuracy with Vanguard 1

[barren pendant]

That sadly doesn't work because it would be a bit too busted.

This weapon can Overwatch characters teleporting or involuntarily moving, even though that would not normally provoke reactions, as long as the source of the movement is the target or a character allied to it.

It does let you shoot them if they do any 'this legally isn't a move, guvna!' tricks.

stares at Mirages with hostile intent

[topaz shoal]

I also really enjoy Cratermaker

[barren pendant]

Hahah. Cratermaker is silly but I'm glad people like it.

[topaz shoal]

I envision it as an explosive mace the likes of gundam

I also likes it's purpose, smart and just flat out slows

[barren pendant]

It was also me playing with a bit of an area where there isn't many low accuracy Main Melees.

Despite the fact that the basic trick of Duelist is '+1 accuracy'

[topaz shoal]

1d6+3 is very respectable even if innacurate. Smart helps a lot.

That's Ogre stance Terashima or Variable sword crits

[barren pendant]

I'm glad people have liked it for something that 100% started as Iki just meming about.

[topaz shoal]

Sees Monomolecular got dropped to 1d6+2
was 1d6+3 in the lcp I had

If I had any feedback to give is that Belladona being a Rose alt feels...weird. Not becuase it doesn't fit, but because it's "deal 3 damage to another enemy upon critically hitting a target or it failing a save" When the only real forced save in the license is from Dullahan Lunge.

Granted, it's easily fixed with Ferrous Lash. But I found it worth a mention

[barren pendant]

That's more than fair. Long ago the Belladonna was a separate mech to the Rose.

[topaz shoal]

It's more of a nitpick than a problem to be honest, so feel free to ignore it haha

[barren pendant]

But they ended up feeling a bit 'why are these separate?' and I stole the best toys from each.

As 'These are the same fucking mech with a weapon change and some under the hood tinkering' kept having people go 'Why is this not an alt?' XD

[topaz shoal]

I wouldn't really see it that way tbh

They each fill different styles

[opal forum]

(are they actually a RWBY reference or do I need to tell my brain to stop recognizing patterns)

[barren pendant]

They're not!

[topaz shoal]

Rose can be a good defender and focus on mains. While Bella focused on gutting tech attachers and spreading damage (Now whether spreading damage around is good or not is a rabbit hole of a topic. No point in getting in it).

[barren pendant]

To go into what they're inspired by: The Rose is inspired by Cú Chulainn (The Rose and the Clover both are heavily inspired by him, if in different aspects).

[opal forum]

Okay thank you for clarifying or it would have been bugging me forever lol

[topaz shoal]

Though I suppose the combination of their licenses is understandable. But it leaves me with a "huh, Belladona can't reliably proc it's trait until LL3".

[barren pendant]

Which is why it's an inhumanly skilled fey spearman who is a terror if you're a group of melee dudes.

While the Clover is 'Cu in his role as berserker immortal monster' XD

[barren pendant]

That's fair. The Polyfilament Kusarigama cares a lot about Crits (The other way to trigger it) and you have access to GMS Grenades (Which will ignore both resistance and armour) but you're not wrong in that the save stuff is later there.

[topaz shoal]

I suppose an easier way to tie all that is to possibly make the kusagiarama force a save on hit instead of on crit. because criting with any weapon procs the trait

[barren pendant]

As for the Belladonna, I have to confess to being a Filthy Weeb, not just someone who likes Celtic Mythology. The Belladonna is inspired by Dullahans in Celtic Mythology and...an anime about a dullahan. XD

https://images.justwatch.com/poster/175544861/s592/durarara

[honest meteor]

oh I love durarara

[barren pendant]

Which is really the Deep Dark Secret of Iki design.

It's like 1/3 'Mythology Stuff', 1/3 'Weird Theological Stuff' and 1/3 'Internet and Anime Brain Poisoned' 😛

[naive iris]

as you should

[opal forum]

this is the way

[barren pendant]

https://preview.redd.it/h5hszlsgwf751.png?auto=webp&s=266c76333c69143547dbcc5df23c0be93e8f7e5c

See: The basis behind the Lily

[halcyon thorn]

I will say the Belladona really likes other licenses for giving it more save stuff
Dullahan Lunge is cool sure, but consider Wandering Nightmare, Unhinge Chronology, Total Strength 1

[barren pendant]

Yep

It's also subtly really good with Launcher weapons.

stares at Stormbending

[halcyon thorn]

Concussion Missiles in a side slot sounds fun
Procs a save and sets you up for followup turns

[naive iris]

oh wow these are some Core Bonuses!

lots of very build impacting stuff

[honest meteor]

Kraul Rifle too.

Seems like it'd make a pretty nice threat for someone to not do something.

[barren pendant]

I'll freely say: Core Bonuses for IF (and honestly for any corp) are really fucking hard. XD

As the corebook companies took basicly all the Stat Buff Ones 😛

And you have to compete with stuff like 'Yes, I would like SBD or +5 HP'

[mossy lotus]

And then you also need to compete with the opportunity cost of GMS ones.

The one advantage of all the GMS ones being GUN™️, at least, is there's not a bunch of other types you have to avoid because people always have access to them. 😛

[halcyon thorn]

I do like the one that's '+1 accuracy to non-weapon attacks'
One of the roughest parts of Brawler 2 is how hard it is to get Accuracy on it without like, Overcharging to grapple or something

[naive iris]

I can tell because I feel like Perfection of Skill / Form was completely different the last time I read it lol

[halcyon thorn]

Honestly the more I think about it
The more that core bonus whips on Napoleon
Brawler 2, sure, but also Stasis Bolt 😳

[honest meteor]

I really like the Orbital Drop for the fact that it's the perfect distance to drop a Pankrati 2 Clover right behind the enemy line.

[barren pendant]

There's been a few iterations, yeah. XD

[barren pendant]

Yep! It also applies to multiple in-company things.

Solstice Knight, Brrrt, Cloich Tabaill

Two of which have a situational accuracy but appreciate an all-the-time accuracy.

On a similar note: If you're a madman, you can go Brawler Clover.

As Overcalibur Strike is 'melee attack', not 'weapon melee attack'

[honest meteor]

😛 as if Clover doesn't have enough issues with action economy lol

[naive iris]

I'm going through this doc and ngl its breaking down my natural aversion to piloting a size 1/2

theres just so much cool stuff

[honest meteor]

Definitely been thinking of ways to make Clover provide their own Lock Ons as much as I can.

[halcyon thorn]

Actually getting lockon for it without a pal pocketing you sounds tough, but that does let you pack Kinesis Drivers in every slot

[barren pendant]

There is actually a fluff reason why there is so many size 1/2s.

[naive iris]

I assumed it was just to fit the fae-crafting precision theme

[halcyon thorn]

I greatly appreciate the huge number of 1/2's, as the resident Power Armor Lover

[honest meteor]

yeah HORUS seems to be the best bet for that, but at the same I really would love to have Reactive Weave on Clover. Unless you allow Metafold Shunt.

[barren pendant]

That's the behind the scenes reason but there's an in-universe one too. XD

[honest meteor]

Because hoo boy, Metafold Shunt Clover.

How many Brace stuff can we stuff into a Clover anyway

[naive iris]

Does... Does Ka-Chunk! work with melee weapons?

can I load my cool sword

[barren pendant]

Yes, yes you can.

[halcyon thorn]

Its called 'Iaijutsu'

[barren pendant]

But yeah, the in-universe reason: The planet IF is from split off at a weird time from Union. Just after Piston-1 was launched. Which means they left before the popularization of Mechs.

So they had Hardsuit Tech but not Mechs.

The IF designs are more a development out of 'overdesigning hardsuits' than the mechs that came from the Hercynian Crisis.

[honest meteor]

Ka-Chunk + Flare Naginata seems like a lovely combo, with Ka-Chunk being the frame simply taking on an iai stance.

I still feel like Scilla is going to get so much value out of Ka-Chunk lol, really gotta try it sometimes with its burst attacks.

[barren pendant]

Ka-Chunk's more subtle use is for Overwatch since it lasts until the start of your next turn.

If you've got a position to hold you can Ka-Chunk and go 'Come on, run into shotgun range. I fucking dare you'

[honest meteor]

Too bad it won't work with Gravity Cannon, does it.

😔

[barren pendant]

Sadly no because Gravy Gun is Weird. 😛

[naive iris]

Kachunk Raleigh seems fun

[barren pendant]

Also yes, Ka-Chunk Raleigh works entirely fine

[naive iris]

spend that other quick doing supporty stuff, hit them with a huge roland next turn

[honest meteor]

the Ka-Chunk is going to be on the Mjolnir off-turn, no?

For reloading.

[barren pendant]

Ka-Chunk would result in +1d6 on the free Mjol shot, yeah.

Raleigh: "There's a thing to reload more loudly? Why do I not have this already?"

[naive iris]

keeps your damage up yeah

[honest meteor]

Ka-Chunk Ground Zero Caliban for the excessive amount of knockbacks.

[barren pendant]

But yeah, Milesia (The planet IF is from) is technically not part of Union, though it's a very pretty big airquotes around it. They are for all intents and purposes but they're too proud to actually officially agree to it. So Union stuff in-system is 'guests'.

[honest meteor]

"I Barrage and move 12."

[barren pendant]

Union puts up with it because...I mean, it doesn't really affect much beyond pride. XD

Since Milesia is very proud of the fact they left Union when Piston-1 launched and refused to be party to that.

[honest meteor]

So Silversword is just the anti-WW?

[barren pendant]

Silversword is 'Fuck nerds, shove all the nerds in a locker' 😛

[honest meteor]

though funny I didn't think that offensively due to the invade systems at first.

[barren pendant]

It's designed behind the scenes to be sorta the IF counterpart to the Manticore. A tough as fuck brawling hacker.

[naive iris]

Its core is so funny

[barren pendant]

But with less durability vs weapons and more vs bullshit tricks.

[halcyon thorn]

[ LICENSES ]
  IF CLOVER 2, IF POPPY 1, HORUS PEGASUS 3
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  The Lesson of the Held Image, Perfection of Skill
[ TALENTS ]
  Brawler 3, Hunter 3, PANKRATI 2, Exemplar 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:4 AGI:2 SYS:0 ENGI:2
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:21 ARMOR:2
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:10 REPAIR:7
  TECH ATK:-1 LIMITED:+1
  SPD:5 EVA:10 EDEF:6 SENSE:10 SAVE:13
[ WEAPONS ]
  FLEX MOUNT: Autogun
  MAIN MOUNT: Autogun
  AUX/AUX MOUNT: Silver Hand / Silver Hand
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Patch Kit, Rope-A-Dope, Hunter Lock, Personalizations, Manipulators``` On the note of Brawler Clover 👀

[honest meteor]

That works.

[naive iris]

"End the Round" is a powerful 3 words

[barren pendant]

The Core is there with Lich in 'Wait, you fucking did what?' XD

[honest meteor]

Silly, but it works.

[naive iris]

Round 6/8 of a holdout?
"Nah GM, I think we're done here"

[honest meteor]

I do wonder about grabbing SMN on Clover.

Just to prevent the Core Power from being shutdown on a Grapple, so Clover can actually Grapple.

[barren pendant]

https://draftsim.com/wp-content/uploads/mtg-card-DB/cards/b/3/b33ba0a8-04e9-4df6-af20-a3ca4470cdcc.jpg

A chunk of the inspiration for the core power.

[naive iris]

I knew it lol

(I was thinking of this one)

[honest meteor]

Funny enough, Nimue's Paragon Blades are like the strictly better version of Silver Hand.

I was thinking of going for a Clover/Nimue when I noticed that.

[barren pendant]

The Nimue's blades were likely a bit pushed, though they're also higher LL. XD

[naive iris]

So lorewise, how have IF adapted to NHPs, if they've still got a strong pre-Union culture for weapon design?

[honest meteor]

Yeah Paragon Blade being Thrown 8 was quite tempting in Clover since I won't even need to get close to get that bonus

[naive iris]

I notice they've got quite a few

[barren pendant]

IF sorta came to it late, so they avoided a chunk of the 'Seccom doesn't really think they're people' and met them at 'Thirdcom does'.

[honest meteor]

Nimue and Clover does make a good dichotomy now that I think about it.

Not going for too many Main/Aux in IF this time compared to LS, Iki?

[barren pendant]

So IF are pretty accepting of them as 'Yeah, NHPs are people and mistreating an NHP is like mistreating a person'. XD

A bit of a writing thing you'll notice relative to LS is that the IF NHPs mostly express desires with it being implied they'll be respected.

While the MOI ones were 'if I have an opinion, I don't think you'll listen to it'

Setanta-Class NHP
"Anger does not make one a monster. Against the injustices and cruelties of the world, it would require a heart of ice to not swell with fury. The crack of a slavemaster's whip, the ring of gunfire as lives are spent like coins for businessmen who would never risk their own. It is right to be angry about such things and to grasp for a better world with bloody hands. If you require a monster, I shall be it; unleashing all my might against the very gods themselves and casting them down in the name of both the suffering present and a future I will never see."

Medb-Class NHP
"Those who would seek to stand with me, know that I will never allow others to suffer as I have suffered. I do not ask for a saint but instead three things: To be without fear, meanness, or jealousy. If you can promise me these small gifts, then I will cut down those who seek to shatter your joy."

[honest meteor]

Speaking of NHP.

Medb-Class on a WW is another thing I want to do.

I like how IF has so many ways to pull aggros on enemies.

[barren pendant]

Yeah, Medb is 'defender in a can' as far as NHPs go.

[honest meteor]

Plus Dullahan Lunge helps a WW quite a bit too

[barren pendant]

Yeah, IF is more 'weird integrated weapons' or 'conventional mountings'

[honest meteor]

Some musing: Main/Aux Grandmother Autogun and Cat Hammer for some OC looping fun, but that's going to be quite an investment.

It can't be on Rasputin either. 😔

[halcyon thorn]

I just came up with a completely deranged Belladona build using Perfection Of Skill
Woe, the sorrow of loving a homebrew and having no games to play it in

[barren pendant]

oh?

[halcyon thorn]

[ LICENSES ]
  IF ROSE 3, IPS-N NELSON 1, IPS-N BLACKBEARD 1, IPS-N TORTUGA 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Perfection of Skill, Titanomachy Mesh
[ TALENTS ]
  Brawler 3, Duelist 3, Tactician 3
[ STATS ]
  HULL:6 AGI:2 SYS:0 ENGI:0
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:23 ARMOR:1
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:7 REPAIR:7
  TECH ATK:-1 LIMITED:+0
  SPD:6 EVA:12 EDEF:6 SENSE:5 SAVE:14
[ WEAPONS ]
  Integrated: Monomolecular Scythe
  FLEX MOUNT: War Pike
  MAIN MOUNT: Swordbreaker
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Bulwark Mods, Siege Ram, Synthetic Muscle Netting, Dullahan Lunge, Personalizations``` Proc Flank with your big threat/thrown War Pike to get Duelist dice, spend them on IA hits to proc Duelist 3, ram 2 times, 2d6+6 paracausal damage if all of the attacks hit
If you didn't proc Flank, or value control over damage, instead Skirmish with Swordbreaker, Duelist 3 to Ram 2 times, then Ram a third time
When Brawler 3 fills up, guarantee the stun with your Core
Rolling out all those attacks with 1-2 Accuracy also gives you a pretty good chance of proccing Nanotoxin Mist via crit

[barren pendant]

Very scary

[honest meteor]

Does Rowan's Mixup trait require LoS?

Considering a Rowan Ram build with Namoe's build as an inspiration.

[ LICENSES ]
  IF ROWAN 3, IPS-N TORTUGA 1, IPS-N CALIBAN 2, MOI MEDEA 1
[ CORE BONUSES ]
  Titanomachy Mesh, Perfection of Skill
[ TALENTS ]
  Centimane 3, DEMOLITIONIST 3, Duelist 3, Drone Commander 1
[ STATS ]
  HULL:5 AGI:0 SYS:0 ENGI:4
  STRUCTURE:4 HP:24 ARMOR:1
  STRESS:4 HEATCAP:9 REPAIR:6
  TECH ATK:0 LIMITED:+2
  SPD:5 EVA:10 EDEF:8 SENSE:5 SAVE:16
[ WEAPONS ]
  FLEX MOUNT: Spartoi Blade
  HEAVY MOUNT: Starburst Spinner
[ SYSTEMS ]
  Siege Ram, SPIKE CHARGES x4, "Arrowstorm" Variable Charges x5, Pattern-B HEX Charges x5, Personalizations, Custom Paint Job```
The Duelist 3 actually works well without being adjacent for a deployed Spartoi Blade Drone.

[barren pendant]

It doesn't require LOS, no (Though repeatedly proning a guy you can't see is often a bit tricky)

[honest meteor]

That's the part I'll have to figure out later, but at least this means I can melee + double ram from a distance, Rowan means I have much more options for the Titanomachy's second ram.

It's a lot of forced movements and Prone.

[barren pendant]

Yeah, Rowan is a ramming machine at its core XD

And like like half of IF, doesn't like Flying Dudes.

[honest meteor]

Spartoi Blade just seems so nice on Rowan thematically and mechanically too.

[barren pendant]

I swear I didn't plan for IF to basicly go 'Flyboys and Nerds, Get In The Fucking Locker' as a corp

[honest meteor]

😔 if only Rowan has their own Main Melee Nexus weapon in license.

there needs to be more melee centimane users.

[topaz shoal]

-- IF BELLADONNA @ LL6 --
[ LICENSES ]
IF ROSE 3, SSC BLACK WITCH 1, SSC METALMARK 2
[ CORE BONUSES ]
Universal Compatibility, Perfection of Form
[ TALENTS ]
Hunter 3, Executioner 3, Skirmisher 2, Exemplar 1
[ STATS ]
HULL:4 AGI:4 SYS:0 ENGI:0
STRUCTURE:4 HP:19 ARMOR:1
STRESS:4 HEATCAP:7 REPAIR:6
TECH ATK:-1 LIMITED:+0
SPD:7 EVA:14 EDEF:6 SENSE:5 SAVE:14
[ WEAPONS ]
Integrated: Monomolecular Scythe
FLEX MOUNT: Shock Knife / Shock Knife
MAIN MOUNT: Rail Rifle
[ SYSTEMS ]
Personalizations, Dullahan Lunge, Dancing Shadow Module, Ferrous Lash, Reactive Weave

Looking for feedback on this build

General Executioner synergy with itself and Hunter 3 for the mobility + free attacks

[barren pendant]

Very mobile and pretty tough, looks like a lot of fun.

[steep hazel]

Hey @barren pendant, id assume the answer is yes, but are you cool with someone doing fanart of the mechs from liminal space, if just for practice and such (obviously id credit source and such)

[barren pendant]

Of course, of course!

When it's done, I'd love to see it/I'll likely retweet it.

[carmine nymph]

Same here. Nothing brings more joy than seeing my stuff brought to life

Like… my favorite part of this whole project, other than seeing what lunacy was going to come from the character sheets of players, was seeing the art and personality

[halcyon thorn]

Does Carmilla's attacks-turned-invades still proc stuff like Combined Arms, or does it count as an invade in every way? Conversely, would such an attack activate Thinking-Tomorrow's-Thought?

[barren pendant]

It's an Invade but not a Tech Attack. Yes, that's a bit weird XD

[halcyon thorn]

So, it still counts as a weapon firing, hitting, etc?

[barren pendant]

Yeah...though...actually, I might need to check about the 'not a tech attack' part.

@empty kraken. Is Carmilla supposed to trigger Thinking Tommorow's Thought?

When you hit with a tech attack, your next melee attack against the same target gains +1 accuracy, and its damage can’t be reduced in any way.

[empty kraken]

It's still not a tech attack, no

Conversely it SHOULD trigger weapon attack stuff

[barren pendant]

Okay, cool, I was right. So it won't trigger Thinking Tommorow's Thought/still is a weapon attack. Cool Cool.

[halcyon thorn]

Neat!

[steep hazel]

I'm still pretty new to drawing mecha, so it's gonna need work at first, haha
But i think the concepts in liminal space are so so cool

One question though, maybe its just going over my head

What are the MO&S Mecha named for?

[barren pendant]

Okay so the naming scheme of the 3 companies is:

MOI: Sorcerers, Alchemists and Occultists (The non-fascist ones, which narrows things down a lot)
DFG: Sins and Virtues.
MO&S: Things That Refuse To Die.

Phoenixes, Immortal Wizards, People who went to great lengths to survive etc

[violet island]

weird question, but on the list of NPCs from Liminal, did any start out or end up with a sort of strong alignment to any of your 3 manufacturers?

[barren pendant]

None really started as 'developed by our corp' but one is designed expressly as a competitor to one of the corp mechs.

The Stormcaller and the Zou Yan are counterparts.

As powerful terraformer mechs, just with very different ways of doing it.

The Scrapper is also designed a bit to have a similar feel to MO&S.

[violet island]

ooo

i like that

yeah I figured none would be explicit, but was curious if hte vibespace interacted

also fun to have satellite competetors in the wings

competitors*

[barren pendant]

Strikebreaker and Security were also designed to be rather IPS-N.

[violet island]

Still looking to see if I can't fit a strike breaker into solstice rain

[steep hazel]

OHHHHHHHHHH

[barren pendant]

I joke a bit but 'the non-fascist ones' was a genuine point of trouble at times with MOI naming XD

[steep hazel]

OHHHHHHHHHH

Dope

[carmine nymph]

Fully understandable. I’ve looked for artists for these kinds of things for a WHILE, and outside of this particular server Mecha are not precisely common (besides Gundam artists, which weren’t the vibe I was going for).

Nabbing Domo was extremely fortuitous in that regard

[barren pendant]

Yeah, the original artist for the Zou Yan and the Ptolemy (Who is a lovely fellow) bowed out of doing More Mech Art for me after them due to 'Oh god, my wrist'.

All the greeble on mech art means a lot of artists are not into doing it XD

[graceful kayak]

grebbles are hard doing manually.

[naive iris]

I like that the Virtues are specifically the alts on DFG

[tacit heath]

Don't I know it

Greebling can be fun, but wow does it take time

In hindsight, I could've probably been smarter about those Timekeeper textures >_>

[graceful kayak]

3D artists like me cheats with greebles but

A lot of sci-fi vehicles and stuff looks /wrong/ without them.

[steep hazel]

I know for me personally for the next time designing for my company and setting I'm going to be studying the style of Gurren Lagann

Because those Max the ones with the face on the chest and the weird wackiness of them best for the vibe I'm looking for but I cannot find any mech artist that do that specific style

Usually you either find them leading closer to evangelion, to 90s mecha anime style, to Gundam, or closer to Pacific rim

[empty kraken]

The DONNER is the notable outlier

Died when they had literally every chance to live

Absolute fucking clown shit with the Donner Party

[steep hazel]

Wait, what is Donner named for?

[empty kraken]

Oh joy I love this story

You see

[barren pendant]

(I'll let Vox tell it)

[empty kraken]

The Donner Party was an expedition of white settlers trying to move through iirc California. They were worried they wouldn't make a mountain pass & end up starving to death, but good news! They arrived ahead of schedule. So overjoyed were they that they threw a party for multiple days...

...During which the snows closed them in, trapping them. Infighting and violence quickly followed, as well as the absolutely brilliant move of shooting at the local Native Americans who tried to BRING THEM FOOD AND GEAR, until eventually the Donner Party resorted to cannibalism to survive and then died anyway to the last man

I encourage you to mock them

God knows I do

When I realized I was making a cannibal mech there really was no other name that could be better

Bonus points for the party using up their food bc they died mere miles from their destination

Of, and I can't stress this enough, their own choices

[old wave]

Eyup, a clear example of why you should not celebrate until you are actually past the finish line no matter how close you are

And also that being a dick is a bad idea in general

[empty kraken]

PRETTY MUCH

[pure citrus]

Huh. It was my understanding that a good number of them actually managed to survive and get rescued

[empty kraken]

I'm operating on vague memory and rants from historian friends

I am not an authority xD