#Reaction time is genetic, meaning that the adaptive chests are unfair to some people.

265 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

inland stirrup
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I have a solution for you: the escape button. Just kfn press it.

gritty ember
fading yacht
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This might actually be the dumbest take I’ve seen anywhere about anything in a while. I wish I could be a fly on the wall just to see what other sort of insane mental gymnastics you go through to excuse the most mundane instances of failure in your life.

inland stirrup
gritty ember
fading yacht
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I’d probably get some incredibly unique stories out of it

inland stirrup
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Also not even mentioning that you're outright wrong

image.png
gritty ember
inland stirrup
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deleting a mechanic is not "qol" lmao

inland stirrup
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are you playing risk of rain returns?

gritty ember
inland stirrup
gritty ember
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The resr of the game is not prohibitively challenging to react to

fading yacht
inland stirrup
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Idk what to tell you, honestly. You're just being very delusional about the mildest thing in the game

fading yacht
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Are you sitting there convincing yourself the devs expect you to be able to snipe the ninth item or something?

gritty ember
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As I have said, it is not a big deal to me, it would simply be nice to have a small asjustment made. If there isn't one, no skin off my baxk

gritty ember
fading yacht
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You took that ninth slot bit far to literally but that’s neither here nor there.

Yeah, if you passed up the free choice slow roll you surrendered yourself to not having control over what you got. That’s the entire point. You don’t get your cape at the ass end of the roulette unless you happen to land on it because that’s how the shop is intended to work.

gritty ember
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Sorry, it didn't attach last time

gritty ember
fading yacht
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Because it makes for a show, allows the player to still technically have an impact, and you’re the only one who’s actually gotten this salty over it in the games history so who else would they be changing it for

inland stirrup
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ah yes, the most credible source on the internet: a random dude on reddit
273ms is the median for the reaction speed, if anything is below that in a video game, then it's INTENTIONALLY made to not be controllable. As Hello World said, if you're seriously sitting there thinking you should have control over sniping any item from the chest, then you're heavily misunderstanding the whole purpose of the item chest, and you should really take a good think about why it's actually the way it is

gritty ember
fading yacht
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I feel like 273 is actually on the high end. Probably a fair number after accounting for input delay and monitor response time tho

opal ledge
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You can just open the adaptive terminal as a chest, no need to participate in the reaction part

inland stirrup
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If you can't convince me, how do you plan to convince devs that it's an actual issue, then? 😆
And if it's not an issue, why make a post about it in the first place?
i swear to god, sometimes the suggestion section gets so idiotic it's unbearable

gritty ember
opal ledge
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Thats like saying 'i dont play this character, must be a wasted character'

gritty ember
gritty ember
opal ledge
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Okay well my suggestion to fix the issue is toggling an option for them to be replaced by normal chests

inland stirrup
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nobody is forcing you to do nothing in the game, you can walk PAST them my guy

opal ledge
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Also, its not like the items get better the faster the chest gets

gritty ember
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Anyway. I had a thought. Clearly it's not an agreeable thought. I'm going to delete this and go to bed, good talking to y'all, goodnight

opal portal
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umm just press instantly

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idfk what else there is in chest, i know im probably gonna miss it so id rather not know what i couldve gotten

mellow bone
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The problem here is that there’s an extremely fine line between ‘accessibility’ and just making the game easier, and it seems like the only flaw with the adaptive chests are that they’re too hard for some people. It feels bad to say, but reaction time being genetic doesn’t mean it isn’t a skill issue ReturnsDrifter .

plain ember
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If you don't like them just play on Sacrifice simple as 👍

olive zinc
violet charm
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What the actual hell

crude cape
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While I agree that its too fast (even just compared to ror2) I definitely won't complain about my reflexes being bad.

Adaptive chests should be seen an any other chest, random. With a tease of control.

If you wanna get all sciency, you should remember that we can react faster to color changes rather than recognizing sprites. So instead of having a mental list of items you'd like, you should be thinking "first green I see is when I press E"

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The mechanic isn't "you can only progress thru the list not back, take the best item"

It's "like every other chest, this one is random too but we're gonna fuck with you a bit by making you feel like you have control. Hopefully while you're being swarmed by a pack of elites"

mossy moth
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🤡 < Take this mask, I think you forgot to put it on

olive zinc
fathom robin
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if you accidentally take a bad item just overcome

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either your run is good and getting a mediocre item isnt so bad or the run is dying and missing an item that could have saved it doesnt feel that bad since the run was already washed anyway

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or just get better genes ig

tough terrace
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My gripe with adaptive chests is that sometimes the timing for the first 3 picks seem to vary a lot and that stuff can get in front of the visor, like fireworks, drones or item effects, which makes it worse to see

iron adder
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i think that approaching this from a "reaction times are genetic" angle is incredibly stupid but i do think that the adaptive chests could be slowed down a bit anyway

charred lion
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As someone who can consistently react to adaptive chests, they are way too broken and overpowered. DO NOT slow them down, it will be completely stupid. They are a free red and OP green generator

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Also, the adaptive chests are really not all that fast and genes hardly matter, i think thats high copium
Even the input delay of your setup will hold you back a lot more than a hypothetical setback by unfortunatr genes, unless someone has a straight up disability

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And then i decided to actually read your post

its not possible to meaningfully improve reaction time through practice
AHAHAHAHAHHAHA fuck off. Even moreso considering adaptive chests are a choice reaction, you couldnt possibly be more wrong with this statement

latent dagger
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My god yall are toxic

dapper trench
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Meh, i've taken to just hitting the first thing that pops up on them, as they are basically command if you actually pick what you want. You don't actually need to get the best thing out of them to win, just use them as chests and move on.

mossy moth
# latent dagger My god yall are toxic

They have a stupid and entitled opinion, and they don't realize that they have a stupid opinion even after everybody told them that it's stupid and entitled. At that point they deserve everything coming for them.

raw forge
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This random mechanic in an rng determined roguelike tries to act like it isn't random so it makes me feel bad when it does something random and out of my control :'(

willow dragon
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just add an accessibility feature for it and be done with it

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off by default

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those who need it use it those who dont, dont ezpz

and even if people do use it as a means of exploiting or easier time idrc either im not competing with them

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when in doubt for non-competitive games always just make it an accessibility setting.

lunar solstice
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Most of the items in this game are good anyways this is not needed

willow dragon
lunar solstice
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I guess so but I also don’t think it’s that difficult, but I guess it wouldn’t hurt to make it a bit slower at the start

willow dragon
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"slower adaptive chest"

lunar solstice
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Yeah but it’s not exactly supposed to be slow

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It’s supposed to be hard to pick the one you want

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It’s like that in risk of rain 2 as well

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Making it slow imo ruins the point

willow dragon
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but it wouldnt be slow on default

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nothing abt it changes

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it'd only add an option to slow it down that you can just not use

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because itd be off by default

lunar solstice
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It’s basically a cheat you turn on disguised as an accessibility option

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It’s not an accessibility thing to make it slow and easy to use it’s designed to be fast and hard to pick from

willow dragon
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not rlly; if you cant stop yourself from using it as a cheat thats not somehow everyone elses fault now

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i can turn my damahe to 10% but i dont do thst every run

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but its there for accessibility

lunar solstice
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I’m not against there being more modifiers but just don’t call it an accessibility feature really

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Just add more cheat type things like guaranteed shrines and slower adaptive chests

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If you’re gonna do something like that

willow dragon
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so do what i said but call it a cheat instead? why die on thst hill

lunar solstice
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It’s just weird to call it an accessibility feature

willow dragon
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the damage sliders are literally accessibility festures

lunar solstice
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They’re modifiers

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Like artifacts

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Artifacts aren’t accessibility features they’re modifiers

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Rapid fire is an accessibility feature since not everyone can mash the button like crazy, but everyone can play the game as its intended difficulty wise

willow dragon
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artifacts aren't accessibility features they're modifiers because they (usually) modify the game in a way to play it differently, you cant modify a single artifact only the ones you choose to have on

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but the sliders are accessibility features because you can change the damage taken and damage hit if you are taking too much damahe or feel you dont deal enougj health

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i cant rlly think of any reason to habe the sliders that isnt for accessibility

lunar solstice
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Glass is literally a damage and health adjustment and nothing more

willow dragon
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yeah that you cant control lol

lunar solstice
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I’m not saying any of these are bad or shouldn’t be in but like

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I feel like this is a very low priority thing

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When the devs have much more important things to fix and add

willow dragon
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weird goal post move, why are you even here arguing if tou dont have a problem

lunar solstice
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This is pretty unimportant for what is basically a cheat

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You want a slowdown adaptive chest cheat

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Eventually a mod will exist for that probably

willow dragon
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you give it enough time and there'll be a mod for everything thats a moot point

lunar solstice
willow dragon
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so is it being unimportant all of these posts are equally important or unimportant

lunar solstice
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I don’t really care at this point, but I highly doubt the devs will add this imo, if they do cool I guess

willow dragon
lunar solstice
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I just don’t see the need to add in cheats to the game, but I guess I’m not the target audience

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¯_(ツ)_/¯

willow dragon
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never judge accessibility based on someone more able's capability to abuse it

lunar solstice
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I still strongly disagree that this is accessibility, not every design mechanic needs to be easy to use

willow dragon
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all accessibility can be considered cheats like how you keep saying damage sliders are cheats lol

lunar solstice
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They are modifiers which are basically cheats, but accessibility is stuff like helping control stuff easier for people who can’t, not changing a mechanic designed to be hard to use to make it easy to use

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Everyone can time the adaptive chests and the penalty for not doing so is super minimal, and the benefit is massive

willow dragon
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accessibility features are quite literally features that make a game more accessible

lunar solstice
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Again I feel like the easier solution is just making it slightly slower at the start

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A more smooth ramp up would probably be just fine

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Not making it straight up slow

willow dragon
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imo i think they should be faster on default

lunar solstice
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I just feel like you could say this about every hard mechanic in the game, a game can just have hard mechanics

willow dragon
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starting to sound like younplay at 200/10 all the time

lunar solstice
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Those are modifiers

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So just make it a modifier

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Not an accessibility feature

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Don’t label it as an accessibility feature cause that’s dumb

willow dragon
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semantics

lunar solstice
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When all the other accessibility features aren’t cheats and are all things you can already do controls wise

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Just made easier

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Fine if this is just about adding the cheat whatever someone will make a cheat menu at some point

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Where you can do all these things

willow dragon
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youre really passionate about not wanting this for someone whos indifferent

lunar solstice
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I just think it is an absolute waste of time to make a cheat to ruin an entire chest mechanic for no reason

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But whatever

willow dragon
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i mean itd ruin it for you since you seem to be incapable of restraint putting it on and using 200/10 every run

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this is literally how you sound

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it's like the part thst its off by default and optional is flying over your head

lunar solstice
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How about an option where the game plays itself for you Paul

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Accessibility for people who don’t like the game

willow dragon
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what am i even supposed to say to that lmao can i just take this as an admittance to you playing on 200/10 all the time?

lunar solstice
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You do you I suppose

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I like the idea the og commenter had

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For the record

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Seems like a solid idea for a change

willow dragon
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ok buddy

lunar solstice
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I feel like if you’re gonna change adaptive chests just make them overall easier to use, more of a ramp up, more about the timing

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Would make it more interesting

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That I can agree with

willow dragon
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theyre already crazy easy they shouldnt be more easy at base

lunar solstice
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So my thoughts are that the original idea is fairly solid and could work

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If people are struggling with it

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Truly a funny conversation here in this discord

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Goodnight

willow dragon
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you are quite the debate bro

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goodnight

hazy wraith
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I'm a little late but after reading up, I'd like to provide an additional suggested approach to adjusting this if it's something the team feel is worth adjusting for accessibility reasons.

Because the adaptive chest accelerates over time, you could view the speed of the chest's cycling as having three 'stages' (at least to how it relates to player reaction times):

  • Slow (First few items): Most players would be able to react to seeing a good item with a decently high success rate (provided they are not distracted by attacking enemies).
  • Moderate: Players with strong reaction times can often react to good items appearing in this window, though it gets harder over time.
  • Fast (Last few items): Players are no longer expected to be able to react and 'choose' their item; luck plays the major role.

The accessibility issue mentioned by the OP primarily exists in the "Moderate" stage, where some players may find reacting to still be fairly easy while others may find it prohibitively difficult for factors (mostly) outside of the game. While it would be difficult to determine exactly how many of an adaptive chest's items appear in this "Moderate" window, I want to feel like it's safe to assume that the accessibility issue's impact is greater the longer the adaptive chest is in the "Moderate" window. Because of this...

My suggestion to the team (if they wish to adjust adaptive chests for reaction time/accessibility concerns): It may be good to adjust the curve at which the adaptive chest's cycle speed increases, spending more time in either the slow or very fast cycle speeds while reducing the amount of time spent at moderate, 'possibly reactable' speeds (thinking about it as an eased curve, tightening both the 'in' and 'out' of the curve would help). I don't have an opinion on if the slowest or fastest speeds should be adjusted, or how many items should be placed before the cycle speed reaches the faster stage. I also think the other ideas suggested here can work either by themselves or in tandem with this one.

--

(Accessibility aside: From my experience, I don't believe accessibility is (or can be) a perfect science. That being said, it's worth looking into whether or not a game element that splits players apart is something that can be overcome by the player, and if what the player is being tested in by this element matches what the game was designed to test. A lot of video games (such as rhythm or fighting games) include or even rely on interactions that sit on the edge of reasonable reaction times, and these games can often be less accessible or fair to some people as a result. I don't think split second reaction time tests are a core pillar of what makes risk of rain good or interesting personally, so if a lack of strong reaction times out-of-game are leading to extra difficulty in-game, it would be interesting and pleasant to see changes that help those people not feel as hindered.)

willow dragon
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i think there should be accessibility but i dont think we should make adaptive chests easier for everyone because imo theyre already really easy, so the only answer i see is an option to slow them down. id be fine with more time in the fast section but i dont think they need to be easier

royal swallow
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im not reading all of this above, but

no

i suck at adaptive chests and i hate them for making me miss that one item I really wanted

it is my fault for not settling for the first few items that are indended to be easy to spot and snipe

the best way you should be looking at an adaptive chest is

first 3 or so items you can get if you're fast enough
literally every single other item might as well show as a question mark because it is random what you'll land on, realistically speaking

if it was visually like this, how much would your opinion change, do you think

this is why it's not really a good suggestion

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or yknow
just spam open it

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treat it as any other chest

nocturne rain
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im also not going to read any of this thread and just say that i, a person who played fps games and thinks they have good reaction time. just spams interact and gets the first thing becuase i always mess it up and its a waste of my time. what if the first one is a red, im gonna miss it otherwise :3

nocturne rain
royal swallow
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true
i'd rather not know i missed my chance at a red i was VERY likely not to get

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hell, i'll go further and say

what's NOT to say every single chest in the game works this way under the hood

but you just can't see it

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it's almost like it's rng

nocturne rain
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the fact we know its seeded :)

royal swallow
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(DAMN)

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fair lel

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but yea you get what I mean

willow dragon
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if you cant even engage with the thread how am i not surprised you dont engage with the interactible too

grand prism
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pause buffer

void pollen
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Just pause buffer lmao HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

long reef
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glitched crown gaming

mellow bone
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Seriously, you can’t just add an ‘accessibility’ feature for anything just because it’s challenging

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Colorblind mode is accessibility, easy mode is not

nocturne rain
void pollen
inland stirrup
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The game literally bombards you with hundreds of items per run and you cry over that one fucking chest you get like once per three levels. I still find this whole thread so fucking bizarre

lunar solstice
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it really is bizarre

willow dragon
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idk i find it bizarre to not want something that helps others and doesn't bother you

lunar solstice
willow dragon
lunar solstice
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lmao hello

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hope you have had a good week aPES2_Wave

willow dragon
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still dodging LOL thats actually funny

lunar solstice
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what do you want me to say I don't play 200/10 would it change your opinion of me in any way

willow dragon
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i mean it might've when i asked genuinely the first time but all of your dodging now isnjust icing on the cake

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i hope you gave that self restraint how-to a read incase they add any more accessibility options, to keep you from using them as glorified cheat codes

lunar solstice
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still on that huh

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¯_(ツ)_/¯

willow dragon
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i mean id assume ur still on it too engiclueless

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just sad to see you think devs need to not add things because you cant restrain yourself instead of just not using the option like any other person

lunar solstice
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I think at the end of the day the reactions to this thread speak for themselves

willow dragon
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and you also want adaptive chests to be slower too is like a big wtf

lunar solstice
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I wouldn't mind them having a slightly slower ramp up at the beginning if people really were having an issue with it

willow dragon
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"dont add cheat codes because i cant stop myself from using them, and also pls buff adaptive chests for everyone"

lunar solstice
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LMAO

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they should add some funny cheat codes tbh do ones like old school things like crazy visual filters or a speed bar

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those would be pretty fun

willow dragon
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lol more buttons for you to press shamelessly

lunar solstice
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indeed

willow dragon
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in serious wheres the bighead cheatcode

lunar solstice
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true

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every game needs a bighead cheat code

charred lion
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adaptive chests arent "that one chest"
theyre super common and incredibly overpowered motherfuckers that give you tons of reds and op greens

inland stirrup
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it's probably about 1 in 10 at most

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and the more items you have the more irrelevant individual items become

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it's basic math

charred lion
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1 in 10 chests being an adaptive chest is still quite substantial
but in stage 3-5 its definitely more than 10

inland stirrup
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so these chests get progressively weaker and weaker over time

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without amount being increased per level or for the proportion

charred lion
inland stirrup
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therefore you're wrong

charred lion
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cape / gheart / cape / several reds / feather can often singlehandedly mog the value of 10+ random medium tier items in stage 4-6

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what you describe of individual items becoming unsubstantial only really applies when you looped enough for the game to become a joke
aka nothing matters at that point

inland stirrup
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this is entirely wrong, having 10 individual procs is far more stronger than having 10 of one item or having one of the listed. it's just plain wrong opinion

charred lion
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ah yes 10 individual procs

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this totally matches 10 random items

inland stirrup
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it's basic math, i recommend you go and test what you just wrote yourself. you'll quickly realise that you're just wrong

charred lion
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if you think this boils down exclusively to math for avg dmg output then youre just unimaginative and dumb

inland stirrup
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better than being wrong about a plain basic math that even a child gets 👍🏻

charred lion
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hmmm what do i choose

like 30% more dmg and some bit of hp and speed when i have enough dmg to beat the game

300% the survivability

like, you know, different sorts of scenarios exist

inland stirrup
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anyhow got far more interesting stuff to do than argue with somone who says complete bs thinking he's right. probably a schizo or somthing. enjoy your day 👍🏻

charred lion
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this is you

Screenshot_20231128_082757_Discord.jpg
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i now acknowledge youre a major unplayable moron in every department after thinking of basically every convo

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i will cease interaction to spare my braincells

inland stirrup
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holy shit you're actually mad af lmao

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sorry i guess didn't mean to stiryou up that hard

charred lion
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im not even mad im just calling you pathetic in a rather un-mad manner

inland stirrup
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people don't just start calling people names out of nothing lmao. clearly you're mad af and going on a rant aobut me hahaha

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thanks for lighting up my mood this is invredibly funny

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anyway, enjoy your day 👍🏻

charred lion
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i just realised you are an unequivocal giga hyper ❌ 🧠 in literally every such debate and i dont think its worth it anymoe

nocturne rain
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damn what happened

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they r fighting

nocturne rain
inland stirrup
left wyvern
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wait, you guys time adaptive chests? i just select the first one

nocturne rain
raw forge
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I just let em roll while looking for other chests then come back to it later

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Secret cereal box surprise

nocturne rain
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based

raw forge
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Can't get mad at what I missed if I don't see it engiclueless

marble orchid
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i do think adaptive chests should be slowed down a touch but to remove them outright is silly

void pollen
charred lion
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i think adaptive chests could be more like ror2 adaptive chests

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where the first few items are slower, but are also not as likely to be higher tier
and then tiers increase over time

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rorr adaptive chests just seem to go for greens and reds right away so

inland stirrup
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hot take: adaptive chests are alraight and matter very little

nocturne rain
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like me!

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im so ready for fast i press interact frame one so i get the red item :3

willow dragon
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adaptive chests r way too strong rn honestly feels like there's guaranteed reds in them

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but wouldnt hate some setting for others to slow them down 🤷 why would i care

willow dragon
swift cargo
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this is like the one of the main things games help you with