Reduce the speed of flying enemies.

[devout bluff]

I love seeing a chain of 50 bullets, all evenly spaced, coming for me and lagging the game.

[regal plover]

lagging? in this game??

ive literally never had the game lag from too many things going on so far

[sage obsidian]

I'm surprised there isn't a pack mechanic with some creatures where they have a specific pattern they use depending on how many there are that could make them fun or at least predictable and avoidable, but idk if the engine can do that personally

[devout bluff]

I play on steam deck; it's not the beefiest machine.

[regal plover]

ah fair ig
i haven't had enough Ws on deck yet myself to be experienced

[sage obsidian]

Would possibly add in some leeways to approach fliers and give them better paint

[regal plover]

hm true honestly

i dont think engine would limit that at all

should be possible

[devout bluff]

Thought: bugs should pause their flight, flash green, shoot, then take a moment to recover.

And only aim based on when they pause.

[grim crag]

Replace archer bugs with blind pests

[devout bluff]

(I'm just throwing ideas at the wall at this point)

[devout bluff]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind that.

[grim crag]

Me neither

It's more balanced

Lol

[regal plover]

monkey's paw curls: blind pests are now hitscanners and predict your position

:3

[devout bluff]

So... They always miss unless you're standing still?

[regal plover]

predict your position

they lead their shot so if you keep moving, you get hit anyway

[devout bluff]

(or heading directly towards or away)

[grim crag]

They can also shoot through walls

[regal plover]

that too that too

[sage obsidian]

Blind pests deal contact damage and always spawn as elites due to being a low cost

[regal plover]

basically it would be borderline unwinnable

or like really hard and annoying to deal with

[devout bluff]

But it's hitscan; nothing to predicted.

[regal plover]

they'd do the thing that spitters do

where they have a delay to their shot

but they'd lead to compensate for that

this would make it more fair while still being annoying as fuck
infact it would make it way funnier

cause like just juke them out lil bro

[devout bluff]

Ah, I actually am not opposed to flying spitters.

[regal plover]

now imagine a dozen of them at once

juke one out, the next one proceeds to hit you unavoidably

[grim crag]

And make sure that blind pests CAN shoot you across the map at ANY range

[regal plover]

you'll want those archer bugs back real fast

honestly
now i kinda wanna make this a mod sdfhsdkfsdf

when the game's mod support comes out

[devout bluff]

They never deactivate/despawn, no matter how far away.

[grim crag]

Make sure to call it "archer bug rework"

[regal plover]

im gonna add blind pests to returns and they'll be flying spitters and they'll just replace archer bugs and they'll be infinitely more annoying

overloading ones will have an electrical contact damage attached to their hitscan telegraph

teehee

[grim crag]

And on temple of the elders it's a guaranteed horde of many boss fight where all of them are a random elite type

[regal plover]

nah that's going too far

[devout bluff]

Make sure they bob up and down and only slowly descend, like in ror2.

[regal plover]

that's OVERKILL lil bro

the worldspawns during the tp event will do the job just fine

[regal plover]

they'll fly upwards the moment they're horizontally aligned with you

literally cant ever hit them unless you're pilot

teehee

unironically honest to god i wanna do this as an esoteric shitpost mod now

[devout bluff]

And even then, their bobbing ensures only some of pilot's shots will hit.

[regal plover]

i dont think that's how it would work but whatever

[grim crag]

What would be funny is if someone makes a mod the reworks target acquired to be horizontal aim

Lol

All the pilot mains will go nuts

[regal plover]

low-tier humour

[devout bluff]

I mean, blind pests bob up and down, and left and right; need them to be at a specific angle at a specific time to hit all the shots.

[regal plover]

ehhhh

target acquired's projectiles are probably fast and thicc enough

and blind pests dont bob that much

[devout bluff]

Fair enough.

I just hate missing shots cause of the bobbing in 2.

If we could translate that annoyance, that would be perfect.

[regal plover]

not being able to hit them at all as most survivors will be annoyance enough methinks :3c

tbh by themselves they would probably be relatively easy to juke and not get hit most of the time, atleast just enough to survive

but now imagine fighting 2 toxic beasts on stage 5 simultaneously

and now that's a proper consistent run-ender

[frigid tusk]

https://youtu.be/-Wj0yeqgLvQ?si=4iyCKHzz6NqSjP6n&t=475 It always makes me laugh to see random people talk about archerbugs

A bit before that he was saying that the "bigger threats" are the bugs

Actually why didn't I timestamp it there

I'm a dumbass

there

[arctic tiger]

You will eat ze bugs

[rustic jetty]

WHERE DO YOU GET THE GOLEM PLUSHIE

[quasi igloo]

sell your soul

[vernal temple]

I think archer bugs are also a particularly unique case. They combine two of the worst enemy types in the game:
Flying + projectile, add to that the fact their projectiles don't only go left/right like most projectile enemies and you've yourself the most annoying enemy to deal with

Birds you can dodge, lemurians you can bait into charging in certain ways/angles but bugs shoot AND fly and if you don't have the items to deal with them some survivors may as well just let them kill them and quit the run

And I think some people are confusing the call to nerf flying enemies with decreasing the game's difficulty. No enemy/enemy type should monopolize the game the moment they appear on the screen the way fliers do. Give more power to other enemies take some away from fliers

[crude juniper]

archer bugs deal low dmg, low hp, flying enemies are fine

[slate jackal]

I have literally never felt bothered by archerbugs

they deal almost no damage, a bunch of elites stacked up still wont deal too significant damage if you need to cross them in a way you get shotgunned

[slate jackal]

i could get behind the idea of making most enemies less anemic garbage, and maybe toning down swifts to compensate. swifts are fine being strong as they are because theyre basically the only pressuring enemy that can actually chase

But then you create lots of other problems. Imagine you make lemurians, clay men, spiders, golems etc more relevant... cool, works well, until you get a blighted horde

If you wanna do something so significant to the balance, you need to fix basically everything that is built around most enemies being anemic trash, aka basically overhaul everything

[frigid tusk]

Didn't I say like
They control the game entirely when they spawn in
Isn't that an extremely short summary of what you said there

[humble tendon]

there's nothing wrong with flying enemies big shrug

especially considering how impotent ground enemies are when you have platforms to work with

[grave frigate]

they're really annoying but their attack patterns are pretty predictable once you get used to them

archer bugs aren't even that hard they're just intimidating

swifts are the hardest flying enemy but they always dive towards you when you're vaguely under them, which is good for baiting them into an attack

evolved lemurians you can typically get to follow you in a predictable manner and flock together, then blast with aoe even in the worst of situations

[slate jackal]

evolved lemurians have a really hard time landing dmg if you just keep movingt

[vernal temple]

Blighted clay men already are a persistent chasing threat

[slate jackal]

they struggle very hard actually landing an attack though

[frigid tusk]

The overloading frenzied clay man in question

[vernal temple]

That's all enemies in this game and in fact the ability to avoid getting hit is out only way to keep up with enemy dmg scaling

If there was any more "unavoidable damage" it'd be doomed

[slate jackal]

not necessarily given ||archerbugs work fine||

[vernal temple]

Part of why archer bugs are so bad is also that they will trigger your cape and/or guardian heart cooldowns

Meaning they get rid of most of your staying power against other enemies too

[frigid tusk]

This game has a lot of unavoidable damage
And a lot of people refuse to acknowledge that for some reason

[slate jackal]

two disproportionally overtuned items can be countered by one thing, thats nice at least

[frigid tusk]

You will take chip in almost every encounter
It's a fact of life in this game

[vernal temple]

Overtuned items that are often necessary to not die, not nice at least

[slate jackal]

it has a few, and its not large because ror1 damage is much lower
and its whatever

if the archerbugs can singlehandedly shut down the usefulness of your gheart/cape then there may be a problem on the player's end

like their fingers and stuff

[vernal temple]

Or maybe the 100 missiles they shoot between the 50 of them

One hitting you is enough to trigger cape

[frigid tusk]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1176783167932354623/1177389325755879587/2023-11-23_18-23-50.mp4 And sometimes
It's pretty high

[vernal temple]

Also some survivors are fine with them but deal with them as a commando with no procing items that target flyers

Some survivors do not have the necessary means to deal with the elite swarm of archer bugs you'll eventually encounter

[frigid tusk]

If that blighted decided to proc ukulele again that would've been game

[vernal temple]

And that makes the game unfair for those survivors

Since all survivors should have a more-or-less even-ish chance at winning a run by playing well

[frigid tusk]

I was recording for something completely unrelated btw

But it just became a "Wow overloading is fucking stupid" clip

That's how common it is

[stable siren]

Ukulele should proc on hit not on cast like it currently does tbh

So it cant just randomly decide you take damage from a football field away

also i want it to shred groups better from multiple procs at once

[vernal temple]

how does uke work with abilities like chef's sear

does it proc at the end of his beam

at the start of it, middile or wherever it happens to connect with an enemy

[frigid tusk]

On hitscan it procs on hit

With things that place hitboxes it procs on the hitbox

[vernal temple]

but on which part of the hit box

[frigid tusk]

The center

[vernal temple]

I see, I was wondering how it worked with laser turret