Bandit clunkiness and Light's Out targeting

[worldly kestrel]

I love bandit in both Risk of Rain 1 and 2, but I feel as a modernization in Returns he still feels incredibly dated in comparison to some other survivors. In ROR2 I feel he really shines by being incredibly smooth and leaning heavy into combo chaining. This is somewhat mirrored in Returns with the invisibility and the flash synergy with lights out and standoff, but due to the 2D horde-y nature of Risk of Rain 1 and return, its a lot harder to get those chains going. Especially as run's progress with beefier and more enemies in groups. Past stage 3, skill 4 gets really difficult to use well

I personally think simply making Lights Out and Standoff target the enemy with the least health in the stack Bandit is facing would be a simple and incredibly effective fix for this, but that's just me.

[proven sierra]

yeah kinda annoying when the enemy youve been working down to low retreats to the middle of the horde the moment you shoot lights out or stand off lmao

[worldly kestrel]

agreed

[humble thistle]

bandit basic shoot literally makes the enemy go back

[leaden osprey]

only on non-elite non-boss fodder

[worldly kestrel]

In 10, 15 enemy pileups, or even 2 or 3 this makes little difference in being able to hit who you’ve actually been able to wear down to hit the lights out

[proven sierra]

having a quickscope type ability to aim it would be neat

like sniper has

though it would just end up being a copy of quickscope at that point

[leaden osprey]

you can hold lights out in this game btw

exactly like the bandittweaks mod from ror2

nifty for jump shots

for whoever didn't know

[autumn agate]

I agree with this, make it like commandos fmj but itnonly hits the lowest hp enemey and it would be so much more functional.

[worldly kestrel]

Yeah I really appreciate that

I honestly think it should be in default risk of rain 2 as well tbh

[dusty briar]

itd be cool if there was a little piercing to the abilities with no added benefits

[worldly kestrel]

It makes it a lot more usable in comparison to the original risk of rain but my complaint still stands

[dusty briar]

like if i kill 3 enemies with this pierce with standoff i still just get the 1 buff

[leaden osprey]

there's a mod that lets you do it in ror2 but its much more useful to have in this game

[leaden osprey]

I was just thinking it could pierce like 3 enemies yeah

nothing will be as satisfying as ror2 bandit but it'd be pretty close

[dusty briar]

ror2 bandit's good cuz you can literally pick out a specific enemy

a pierce with no added benefit is the closest we'll probably get. sure you're executing more enemies but thats not necessarily what you want

and just a slight pierce so like if for some reason your enemy walks rlly far away from the enemy infront of it then you get nothing

itd just alleviate the enemies being stacked ontop of eachother

[leaden osprey]

ror2 bandit when he finds a horde of wisps

shift r shift r shift r

[dusty briar]

actually so fun

[worldly kestrel]

Yeah that’s what I mean, the best part of him in risk of rain 2 is just how fluid the combos get

And the main thing holding it back in my experience in this game is I just can’t hit who I wanna hit

[dusty briar]

i wish desperado worked that way in 2 like it would reset the special and you couldnt keep adding up them passively you had to keep shooting it so you could wittle down enemies and just spam special and then at the end of your big stack you hit the boss

[small junco]

yeah his whole gimmick just falls apart after like, stage 2 in this game
its really weird

[dusty briar]

with a buff or smth like it judt makes the special do more damage with each hit

that would be so cool

[worldly kestrel]

Tbh I was also hoping for a knife alt on 2nd skill and a buff to the damage on the smoke bomb for a little more aoe as well but the bomb is still okay

Classic bandit skills are still classic n all

The actual issue I have is how his whole shtick falls apart and is very clunky

[hollow anvil]

Having screen wide auto targeting would be excessive, but something like this could work. The skill would auto target whatever has lowest hp within a small distance behind the target at the front.

[dusty briar]

this works with pierce too and i imagine is just a more simple/elegant solution becaude what do you do with multiple low health enemies

[small junco]

just pick the closest one?

[worldly kestrel]

? you can just shoot it twice? because if you get one low health enemy with it it would reset?

I'm confused

[dusty briar]

no i mean like multiple low health enemies within a pile along with non low heath enemies

which would it pick? why not just pierce?

[autumn agate]

this is a pretty smart solution. like a smallish auto target aoe sorrounding the enemy that got hit right?

[dusty briar]

im not really a fan of auto targets as is cuz huntress's auto targetting can get a little weird. like how does it work for flying enemies? if there are more than 1 low health enemies but they are still being protected by a high health enemy, which of them is chosen to be shot?

the one with lowest health?

what if you have multiple ones you've wittled down but you want to specifically kill one of them.

what about enemies that have multiple heights? like what if i have a parent that is low health and a child thats even lower health, but i want the parent gone? is it going to auto target the child, even if i jump? how can this rlly work with verticality

[worldly kestrel]

yeah?

it would just hit the enemy with the lowest numerical amount of health

[dusty briar]

what if you want to specifically kill a specific enemy that is at low health but not the lowest health

[strange prairie]

Could be like this:
Lights out and the other skill will target the following way > As long as the enemy is on the same X axis and was damaged last within 5 seconds.
If the target isn't there > the first enemy in line will be shot.

[dusty briar]

ok but what about if there are multiple enemies in a pile and they distribute shots equally. one of them is low health but not the one you last hit?

[small junco]

what if you specifically wanted to kill an enemy right now but it was behind other enemies

you couldnt

[dusty briar]

im sorry i dont think i follow

how does lights out piercing in a small area around the first enemy hit not do this?

[small junco]

just pointing out that you're kinda playing devils advocate for no reason, no targetting system is gonna be able to read your mind and decide exactly which target you want to hit from such limited input

[autumn agate]

yes, the one with the lowest health. the point of light out is to reset cooldowns and the point of standoff is to build stacks, neither are very good damage abilities on their own, and if you really wanted a guy dead asap youd be better off using use dynamite and whip, or gun.

and straight up piercing would alter the balance of the move significantly which is trying to be avoided

[dusty briar]

how would it affect the balance if it doesnt offer and benefits beyond the first hit

[strange prairie]

The only tweak I can add is for any aoe that damaged a group > lowest health enemy well be targeted.
So - mark last enemy shot, if group > the one with lowest health, same X axis, 5 seconds.
Although it starts to pile up for a simple explanation of a skill.

[autumn agate]

how does it pierce if not doing damage to the enemies it pierces, im not following

[strange prairie]

It's a different kind of pierce. Single out. At least in my book.

[dusty briar]

the idea i said is that it would pierce with no stacking benefits meaning if it would kill more than 1 enemy it would only grant the benefit of killing 1 enemy which might seem "good!" because you killed enemies but its really "bad!" for bandit who wants low health enemies to upkeep his specials

itd give you the benefit

[autumn agate]

its still doing damage to the pierced enemies though yes? or are you saying it only does damage if it would kill.

[dusty briar]

it'd probably do the damage yeah. don't see how it would affect balance when what bandit wants is low health enemies on upkeep

[autumn agate]

taking a 500% dmg ability to a 1500% dmg (assuming 3 pierce) is fairly significant id argue

especially for light out which can be spammed if you get the kills

[dusty briar]

yeah but why would you want to spam lights out

[autumn agate]

well if its doing 1500% damage per shot its great dps

[dusty briar]

itll kill a group, sure, but like why would you want to do that when you can keep them as cooldown batteries

[autumn agate]

sometimes having a group of things trying to kill u dead and out of the way is more important.

either way id argue this is tangential. the ability can do way more damage, which modifies the balance significantly

[dusty briar]

lights out does the most damage on low health enemies. on high health enemies it doesnt do much at all. it's not rlly beneficial to spam lights out and leave yourself stuck without it

its contextual. characters are balanced seperately from one another and around their kits. 500% is already a lot that some characters dont even see in their kits, but its contextual to bandit's kit

[autumn agate]

neither the ror 1 wiki or the returns wiki mention it doing more dmg to low hp enemies, it did 600 in 1 and 500 in returns

[hexed elbow]

I think this issue could be lessened if Lights Out and Standoff would pierce at the point of contact, and no further.

If your target is just slightly behind the healthy frontliners, like still overlapping, then your target still dies. However, if you missed the timing by a lot, then your target lives because this game isn't supposed to be gentle.

[dusty briar]

yeah this is what i mean

[hexed elbow]

Oh oops, I skimmed. You said this pretty much exactly now that I skimmed in reverse.

Its monday thats my excuse

[dusty briar]

i think auto target abilities just kinda suck and for a character who cares so much about the health of enemies and juggling them i would rather control it

no ur good man

[small junco]

maybe

I'd definitely like to see something change with his specials though

[heady shuttle]

yeah i feel like having complicated autotargetting rules isn't something thats really in the spirit of the game or character
i dont really have a satisfying solution off the top of my head, though

[hollow anvil]

It's not that complicated.

[heady shuttle]

much moreso than it needs to be imo

this feels like a very inelegant solution to me

[worldly kestrel]

why? lots of projectiles have ranges in the game

I mean u could just have the projectile end like this somewhere

wait i forgot if lights out has a range already lemme check

ok you dont

or at least not thats visible

[worldly kestrel]

in a 2d game that is extraordinarily hard (controlling who and what you hit I mean)

you cant control exactly what you shoot in the 2d scale when they all stack up and stand behind each other and there are basically only a few angles of fire

which circles around to my original point

that there should be a way to more accurately hit a viable target to actually make use of his kit

If you have a better idea or suggestion for the devs I'm interested in that too, just a simple auto thing is what tickled my mind first 🤷‍♀️

[autumn agate]

i also wanna say that pierce kind of goes against the aesthetic and fantsasy of bandit and the ability. it says, "take aim for a headshot" in the description for a reason. you're a skilled gunsman calling out a single enemy as your mark and shooting for it. if anything some slight autoaim adds to that fantasy as it shows bandit is skilled enough to pick out a single enemy in the midst of a chaotic horde and still hit the shot, instead of having to target those closest to him.

[heady shuttle]

like i said i didnt have anything that immediately came to mind that i liked either
just that i dont really like this

[autumn agate]

this in mind id argue any solution needs to uphold the idea of one shot one kill

[worldly kestrel]

that's actually a really really good point that I hadnt considered, as in how it fits the aesthetic i mean

I disagree with the pierce, cuz it is supposed to be a targetted aimed revolver shot, not mowing through enemies

The auto thing might be un-elegant with a range cap or a little over powered without limit though

[gray delta]

cant we make it an execute and piercing?

[worldly kestrel]

wym?

[gray delta]

so the base damage wouldt be too high, but it would increase with the lower health

[heady shuttle]

i dont think a one shot kill is the design philosophy at all, but rather a finishing killshot type deal

[worldly kestrel]

yeah

you should have to thin the horde or take a couple shots on whoever you shoot first

thats always been how it is

[gray delta]

so it would oly kill the ones with lower health in the group

[worldly kestrel]

My idea was just that it has the same base damage and projectile but it only hits the lowest health enemy in the line of fire

so you would still have to have actually hit something enough

I wish i could program tbh, that might be broken as it could enable spamming bomb and lights out to hit everything correctly

My main point is there should be a more streamlined way for bandit to hit his lights out to move through combos and be the fluid character hes supposed to be

[heady shuttle]

honestly i just dont think its something that was intended to let you spam it through crowds at all yeah
as far as i see if you mostly wanna save it for bigger threats near the end of a bigger fight or for picking off stragglers in between encounters

alternatively if you Do want to spam it the intention seems to be that you just find a good opportunity to line up a shot on a damaged target while kiting, which seems to be encouraged with how you can 'prepare' the shot

i cant really say if the effort for doing this is actually worth it currently though, i haven't played bandit too terribly much yet

[autumn agate]

kill shot. singular, not plural. if its hitting multiple enemies i think its got to be multiple shots, amd i wouldnt necessarily be opposed to allow charging it for for up to 6 shots (or 5, idk what kind of revolver bandit uses).

[heady shuttle]

honestly being able to prep multiple shots at once Does sound pretty cool yeah

would probably need stat adjustments otherwise naturally

[autumn agate]

someway to make it technically piercing but visually and audibly look like multiple shots could work but idk how theyd do it. like charging allows for 5 pierce for 6 total hits

[worldly kestrel]

yeah I get that rn its not meant for "spam", but I also feel its not helpful AT ALL for bosses or something

[heady shuttle]

i mean, a 500% damage shot i don't think is negligable in that situation

[worldly kestrel]

and that he would be much more mechanically tight if he was focused on the combo chains that are supposed to be his gimmick

[worldly kestrel]

I mean yeah it's not useless but its not built or designed as a boss killer at all

[heady shuttle]

certainly not no

i wouldnt be opposed to it having a sorta ror2 slayer tag effect but idk if that style of ability design is what the devs have in mind

[polar roost]

What if it pierced completely (with less damage) but dealt bonus damage to the enemy with the least remaining HP?

[heady shuttle]

nah i dont think any sort of piercing is in the spirit of the skill at all

its clearly supposed to be something that rewards you for singling something out and capitalizing on their death

[polar roost]

Fair point but that’s also the entire issue we’re trying to solve here (enemies crowding)

Or even just having it pierce once or twice would help

[heady shuttle]

im sure there's a more spiritually aligned solution than just making it pierce

[polar roost]

Well the auto target would be weird (and kind of just be a pierce without damage) and I’m not really seeing many other ideas

Idk

Just feels like that would be the most natural

[worldly kestrel]

i agree

[heady shuttle]

again im not saying i have like Divine Knowledge of a better solution im not sharing or anything
just saying these specific ideas im not super fond of

[worldly kestrel]

like this guy mentioned

its a skilled gunsman taking an aimed revolver shot or whatever

piercing would be a lil weird

but thats just my opinion

[polar roost]

I mean I think it almost sells the idea more

Like the power of the shot is strong enough to go through

That’s just me tho

[heady shuttle]

you have to consider it in the context of the rest of the kit, i think
already bandit has some pretty strong aoe options in his other skills so i don't really see it pertinent to make this one lean into it at all, as its explicitly supposed to make those skills more effective by letting you spam them more

there's a fine line to be walked here which is part of what makes this so tricky to me

[worldly kestrel]

yeah

[polar roost]

Yeah I get that

[worldly kestrel]

the problem with the auto idea i brought up already might have the problem of enabling cheesing with the bomb

[polar roost]

I still think just a low damage, low density pierce would be best but I’m open to ideas ofc

[worldly kestrel]

lights out being piercing aoe would be insane

[heady shuttle]

i just think thats kinda lame for a revolver is all really

revolvers aren't really low damage peircer type weapons, they're "blow this dude's head off" weapons

[polar roost]

Fair enough. I think we just disagree on that

[worldly kestrel]

especially bc it would thin health out and making a second shot after the cooldown reset basically guaranteed??? you could basically spam this thing lol

[autumn agate]

heres a really weird idea that probably sucks but im just spitballing, you hold the button, and a little skull appears over an enemy, and you can hit left or right to toggle which it shoots. perhaps letting you fully control who it targets is a bit much, but there would be some skill involved in terms of doing it quickly so you dont let the horde walk up on you. biggest issue would be just how many enemies are on screen at any given time so maybe it cycles from lowest to highest hp

[heady shuttle]

well that just feels kinda overdesigned and hard to use in thick crowds personally

even if cool on paper

[autumn agate]

yeah thought so lol

[polar roost]

I think this COULD work but feels to overdesigned for classic bandit

[autumn agate]

i do really like the idea of adding more functionality to the hold though, its really cool but doesnt do a ton as it stands

[heady shuttle]

frankly another reason i'm kinda against anything involving singling targets out in a crowd in that way is that it kinda steps on sniper's toes a bit since thats like, the whole gimmick with their alt secondary

[autumn agate]

sort of. its weird though because their alt secondary is more an aoe thing.

[heady shuttle]

its not 1 to 1 but its sorta the same spirit

[autumn agate]

like in terms of the fantasy i kind of agree but the mechanics not really

[worldly kestrel]

I dont think anything, even alt skills or mods and stuff, should make bandit into a boss killer or targeted attack thing, but fluid combos and skill resets, along with gunslinging spamming and occasional aimed shots and aoe tactics, mean that he should be able to accurately hit those resets

[heady shuttle]

i think a solution i like that im settling on is just, let it load more shots up to a limit with kills that you get with other abilities
let loose ability to slam off all your stored shots
basically have it be a sorta positive feedback loop with the rest of the kit

[autumn agate]

also something perhaps a bit tangential, but i forgot to point out earlier, auto targeting does exist in the game already on the pilots secondary so its not as far fetched as it seems

[polar roost]

I would compare bandit more to a bounty hunter than, well, a bandit. I think singling out is fine

[heady shuttle]

granted it already kinda positive feedbacks and that could end up being very strong too

[polar roost]

Pilots secondary also pierces, though, so you hit the enemies in front of the target as well. As a pilot main his secondary works well but imo would be really clunky if it were single target

That’s the issue

[heady shuttle]

pilot i think it works on since hes kind of designed from the ground up to spam his secondary at everything

at angles explicitly not straight forward, at that

[polar roost]

Lights out needs to be either single target or weak multi target, auto aim just doesn’t feel good on an ability like that

[polar roost]

Yeah

He’s all about hitting good angles on the enemies to get as much in a row as possible

[autumn agate]

the point of pilots secondary is damage though. bandit is different in that the major point of lights out is resets and standoff is building stacks. perhaps im proving that the analogy doesnt work though, in saying that

[polar roost]

Yeah no I get that

It’s less mechanical that I’m worried about

It works fine mechanically

But it’d be confusing I think

[heady shuttle]

autoaim at All certainly exists in rorr and has a place, just to say i dont think bandit needs it

like i said this is just a really tricky thing to approach due to the inherently snowbally nature of bandit's intended playstyle

[polar roost]

My thing is just that it feels weird to shoot through an enemy and not damage them. Sniper alt m2 gets away with it because of the big reticle but this would just feel strange imo

[heady shuttle]

yeah it'd be a bit unintuitive i feel

[worldly kestrel]

wait wha

fr>?

[autumn agate]

idk i think it could be explained fairly easily in the tooltip.

"Take aim for a headshot, dealing 500% damage. The lowest health enemy in a small range past the point of contact is automatically targeted. If this ability kills an enemy, the Bandit's cooldowns are all reset to 0."
Bold is what I added.

[heady shuttle]

yeah, it'll automatically target at enemies within a certain angle above/below you respectively

[polar roost]

Yeah sure but it would still FEEL weird

[worldly kestrel]

huh?

[worldly kestrel]

oh

i see

[polar roost]

Like you shoot one enemy and another takes damage

[heady shuttle]

its more in the name than anything, but you notice it pretty easily

[worldly kestrel]

I didnt know that

thanks

[heady shuttle]

[autumn agate]

I guess I just personally disagree because the idea of shooting past a bunch of enemies to hit the one you actually want to hit seems to fit bandits whole gunslinger thing a lot. And like visually the game would do the calcs and the bullet would hit the enemy that actually takes damage

[dusty briar]

pilots is controllable though based on your position. you can easily control what enemies are in the air or if youre in the air and it hits a wide array

[autumn agate]

its not that controllable. if there are enemies through the floor under me, and a group on the ground ahead of me, and i want to hit the ones ahead of me, i might just end up hitting the ones underneath me because they happen to be a bit close, i dont get to choose

[polar roost]

Visually it would still probably look as though it hit the first enemy in line. I guess you could just have the bullet extend over the enemies

[worldly kestrel]

I agree with this aspect of it a lot

the auto thing would fit in that it could even flesh out that part of bandit more

[dusty briar]

okay but this is still a moot point as with pilots you are specifically hitting the enemies you put in the air and you dont have a specific effect like bandits

[heady shuttle]

i can understand the whole singling out gunslinger thing, i just dont really like it from a mechanical perspective

[autumn agate]

yeah just a white line representing the bullet trail, it would be overlayed above any enemies that the bullet passes and stop at the one it hits

[worldly kestrel]

as in the bullseye gunslinger cowboy

whatever

[polar roost]

Eh. I mean, obviously we can’t know how that would look, but I’d probably be fine with it if it was done well. Sounds annoying to implement though

[autumn agate]

pilots secondary is far more versatile than just hitting enemies in the air. her alt kit doesnt even have the mines to launch people up, nor the parachute. it hits people through wall underneath you, through walls ahead of you, up stair cases diagonally, but as far as i know it always targets the closes enemies, maybe im wrong but thats how its felt so far

[polar roost]

Pretty positive it targets closest, yeah.

[heady shuttle]

whatever it targets, its much more lenient due to the wide angle, piercing, and the multiple fanned shots

[polar roost]

I spent a lot of time lining up angles for judgement and that’s what it seemed to be

[polar roost]

True

You also get multiple charges, plus MORE if you get mags

[heady shuttle]

like i said, you spam it at everything
thats what pilot does

[polar roost]

Very consistent ability

[heady shuttle]

pilot be like "i have acquired target" and then shoots everything
everyone loves it

[polar roost]

So real

When do we get the ROR movie where pilot walks in, says “Target Acquired!” and domes providence

[heady shuttle]

fr

[autumn agate]

id imagine the yellow line would pass the first enemy and the explosion looking effect would be on the second (just as a way to visualize how it might look)

this is from the game btw i didnt edit this at all

[polar roost]

Yeah

I get what you’re saying

[autumn agate]

and im not saying the auto target thing has to be the solution but if it was thats what'd look like i imagine

[polar roost]

I also feel like the ability would have to be worded differently if this were the solution, because you aren’t actually shooting the first enemy

Just using them as a starting point

Idk

Doesn’t really matter

[autumn agate]

No i agree with that. It's actually why i somewhat agree that its a weird solution because saying this like i suggested earlier

The lowest health enemy in a small range past the point of contact is automatically targeted.
Kind of weirdly lets the player in on the fact that its using that first enemy as a point of reference

which goes against the fantasy i think

If it were worded better it'd be fine but i couldnt think of anything better that was simple and succinct

[worldly kestrel]

I think the range should just be like "bandits immediate field of accurate view" yk? since the move is supposed to be him taking aim with a handgun

[autumn agate]

Yeah ive suggested before that it just have pseudo fmj (commando secondary) pierce in the sense that it scans every enemy in front of bandit in a straight line but only hits the lowest hp enemy, but it was said, and i think i agree, that that would be a little too strong

like you could just lower the horde in general with ukelele or whatever then shoot and hope the autoaim handles it for you

there still needs to be a good level of player impact on how the shot plays out i think

[worldly kestrel]

like the range it can auto hit the weakest enemy isnt dependant on the weakest enemy in proportion from the first enemy in distance from bandit but a range extending from bandit and the gun itself

idk

[worldly kestrel]

yeah

I think the aoe pierce wouldnt make any sense and would be really broken

also offtopic but related to bandit, why is his gun on his back when you have the whip? I mean is it just a neat design thing?

[autumn agate]

kinda makes me wish you could see the whip on his belt when he has the gun out lol, but i guess that would be spoilers for the unlock

[worldly kestrel]

true

thats likely the reason

tbh I doubt we'll get a big change to bandit like this but it would be sorely appreciated

several other survivors need more work

but it would be nice

[autumn agate]

As soneone who played the original bandit is higher on my list just because this ability has been partially nonfunctional for 10 years lmao, but i agree that objectively the time would probably be spent better elsewhere. i just hope the devs at least see this as i feel we've all had a lot of good discussion.

[worldly kestrel]

Same

idk if its recieved enough attention to be seen though

we'll see ig :3

[worldly kestrel]

Does anyone else have issues with bandit besides what we’ve discussed? I’m curious

[dusty briar]

im not a big fan of the smoke grenade sometimes bouncing up and being higher than i need it or want it but thats smth that might get alleviated with just getting more skill

[worldly kestrel]

It is a little goofy sometimes but I haven’t had an issue with it

I can’t decide if I like or hate the jump boost height from the other grenade

The invisibility thing

[dusty briar]

its a nice little sustain thats useful for letting you travel a little farther horizontally like pilot default special kinda

or smth

i havent played with it since i unlocked alt utility cuz i wanna try and get used to it

[dusky ravine]

As a Bandit main i think this needs more engagement.
The special, especially standoff, gives the player an advantage to continue fighting. However, the moment the player gains these buffs or cd reductions the fight is most of the time over. The boss is dead. The horde chasing you is dead. YOU are dead. The earlier the player gets these advantages the better for the fight.
So, a couple things the ability could be modified with:

-the ability could do No 'damage' at all but execute at a certain enemy HP percentage scaling with crit-chance with diminishing returns

-the ability could be a charge akin to loaders alternative primary and shoot up to 6 rounds (because revolver) instead of 1

-the round fired could Auto target the enemy with the lowest HP (as stated above)

The possible options stated above can also be used together. However, the first two options do change the feeling of the ability quite a bit...

[worldly kestrel]

The charge thing I agree with

I think maybe that could have been the alt tho

Lights out is supposed to be that “take aim for a headshot” thing which I think should have the auto aim thing

And then the alt could have been the 6 shots

Of course we’re getting a bit wacky here and there’s no way they’ll change all that post release, I’m just day dreaming

But I still have my fingers crossed for a little rework

Cuz it’s more about making him balanced and smooth

Idk

[daring timber]

It also doesnt help that there are dozens of cases where an enemy spawns to “get down mr. president” the reset on an almost dead enemy

This is absurdly common during teleporter events

bandit seems fun on paper and during the first few stages, he is, but the second your reset becomes just a thing you sometimes get on an off chance, he sort of falls apart into a clunky mess

[worldly kestrel]

Yeah

During tp and honestly anytime after first stage not only the overlap gets in the way but also bad timing spawns lmao

[worldly kestrel]

Exactly!!!!

[hidden dawn]

alt bandit in particular really becomes a bit of a mess lategame, because whip stops staggering things and you can't move while using it without jumping

and jump-whipping fails to hit things often

also he has this problem where drones shoot stunned enemies from his dynamite out of his whip's actual range

[autumn agate]

dynamite is his most cracked ability tbh. 300% aoe dmg with stun on 3 sec cd is really goosd

[tight dune]

ooh