ror2-discussion

[sour nest]

Just another void creature I'm pretty sure.

[vapid dagger]

ror2 commando is bland in the perfect way from how i imagine him at least

[upper wing]

commando just being some guy who has the will to keep going is so cool

[eager barn]

i like to imagine that railgunner tried to fight voidling but thats just fause i think itd be cool

[upper wing]

i fucking adore ror2 commando

[vapid dagger]

hes unnaturally normal

[molten hound]

voidling
theres always a bigger fish.

[livid idol]

I think being just a guy works incredibly well idk

[gleaming flint]

you are as bland as him

[supple stirrup]

Like da floaty whales!!

[sour nest]

Commando is the base character of the game, makes sense why he's very normal.

[knotty canyon]

[eager barn]

i used to love ror1 commando too, until they made him a knower in rorr

[echo idol]

hc too i doubt that "in tha frickin lore" we go to the stranger thigns upside down and kill nk or whatever

[fresh idol]

i don't think we have any knowledge to what that thing is exactly. iirc i only remember that there is another thing that is bigger and that the void wants to take the normal dimension

[supple stirrup]

🐳 🟪

[echo idol]

its there for world expansion and fun gameplay shit

[eager barn]

ror2 commando my goat

[upper wing]

id argue im far from a bland person

[fresh idol]

oh and i think VOidling can make you stuck in an infinite time loop where if you die you go back to where you were the moment you got your mind captured

[molten hound]

the whales are more cargo ships to transport cells and such

[vapid dagger]

theres something unnatural about a character who remains sane throughout everything that happens on that planet

[gleaming flint]

all commando mains are as bland as him and deserve a life as bland as him /ns

[echo idol]

/srs

[fresh idol]

what is /ns

[molten hound]

UFBFGBHE wrong fuckijng reply

[vapid dagger]

in commando's line of work the ability to not his your head in the chaos is what sets him apart

[sour nest]

How do we know that?

[livid idol]

I think you are nilzer

[fresh idol]

fuckin internet lingo

[supple stirrup]

Not serious

[fresh idol]

thanks

[eager barn]

i try my best to be bland

[upper wing]

i was gonna post this and i thought it was really funny that the image is also largely orange, just like mando

[fresh idol]

logbook of some stage

[molten hound]

we almost got rid of it.

[eager barn]

im not very good at it

[sour nest]

Interesting, thanks!

[supple stirrup]

I think we almost got rid of it guys

[fresh idol]

i'm gonna seek it rn bc i'm also curious

[eager barn]

hell yes

[sour nest]

Anyone who likes commando for being a "normal dude" must all be fans of Emett from the lego movie lol.

[golden linden]

iirc it's the planetarium one

[terse ferry]

i think this is like fine

[fresh idol]

my logbook is all fucked bc modding

[golden linden]

yup

my wiki be working 24/7

[supple stirrup]

Wait tinker debuffs?

[fresh idol]

what logbook is this

[tight kayak]

why did they allow weakpoint destroyed in the first place 😭

[terse ferry]

i can appreciate going for a glitchy vibe by adding normally-inaccessible debuffs but holy shit dude -1% armor from Weakpoint Destroyed???? 😭

[upper wing]

ive been trying a lot more modded ror2 but i feel like i cant go past stages and enemies because anything past that changes the game in a way that doesnt sit right with me

[golden linden]

planetarium

[eager barn]

what is the pool

[vapid dagger]

huntress is bored
merc is a tryhard
engineer has obsessively preplanned everything out from the start
loader really love her job
bandit is a showoff who is just that good
captain is already in too deep

and commando is simply normal

[livid idol]

Solus wing in shambles

[gleaming flint]

i cant lie i got kinda shook/shaked(?) after i read needletick's entry

[tight kayak]

"Accelerant"
"Accelerant (Non functioning variant)"

[supple stirrup]

What is it…

[eager barn]

does 10% slow even exist?

[robust plume]

"...And so he vanished, another number among the missing"

[molten hound]

its the same guy from tri tip log i thonk

[terse ferry]

probably as another unused debuff yeah

[vapid dagger]

theres nothing special about commando
and thats what makes him so special

[molten hound]

also yall check solus wing base speed in the log

[haughty crag]

commando is probably the sanest out of the survivors

[eager barn]

i wish tinker just did damage or had a single debuff or something

[upper wing]

isnt it like 60 m/s or something stupid

[gleaming flint]

loader*

[vapid dagger]

everyone normally has some uniqueness to them
and commando being so perfectly generic is what makes him stand out for me

[eager barn]

gameplay we speaking?

[supple stirrup]

Ohmy god

[gleaming flint]

i believe that loader thinks that the world is just sunshines and rainbown in her suit

[vapid dagger]

both gameplay and lore

[molten hound]

fuck they fixed it

[robust plume]

Fr. Just a soldier on the job, sent on a perilous mission for a fruitless cause and expected to die.

[terse ferry]

tinker DOES have 22 debuffs technically but unfortunately they picked the worst possible pool of them

[fresh idol]

both

[golden linden]

100 m/s

[molten hound]

lemme get a screenshot from before hold on

[sour nest]

To be fair I'd say a decent chunk of the surivors aren't really special either. It's just that commando we know the least about.

[golden linden]

a third of the speed of sound

[haughty crag]

commando is your regular foot soldier

[supple stirrup]

From commando’s perspective…
They Expect You To Die..

[golden linden]

hand soldier

[haughty crag]

basically a hired security

[upper wing]

christ lmfao

[molten hound]

wait no it wasnt the swing it was the shart

[vapid dagger]

commando is expected to die
he didnt
what the fuck?

[eager barn]

i think railgunner is also pretty plain, but shes less common ig

[upper wing]

railgunner is awesome

[eager barn]

tho ice shot is a bit out there

[supple stirrup]

THERES A RISK OF RAIN BOARD GAME???

[golden linden]

tbf it is a mothership they are rebuilding

[molten hound]

not a screenshot but

[supple stirrup]

🪳 🪳

[upper wing]

WHAT LMAO

[eager barn]

but yeah commando is exceptionally standard and i love him much for it

[supple stirrup]

It’s catching up…

[terse ferry]

oh yeah shoutout to drifter throwing a mountain shrine interaction

[upper wing]

thats just gearbox saying “fuck it”

[vapid dagger]

how are you still alive?
"i dont know how im supposed to answer that"

[gleaming flint]

negative speed or really high? shouldntt it be 1E+13 m/s?

[sour nest]

Commando, bandit, drifter, mercenary. Unless there's smth I don't know about them, all of them aren't really special.

[terse ferry]

it's negative yeah

[terse sedge]

Hallo everyone

[molten hound]

no idea

[gleaming flint]

does it walk backwards?

[molten hound]

hi

[terse ferry]

it just doesnt move

[supple stirrup]

No it’s just

Really really really really low

[terse ferry]

it's been like 5 months since i learned this information and i still dont understand why they did that instead of just giving him 0m/s movespeed

[gleaming flint]

who was the mothership solus again?

[golden linden]

most be a reference to something

[robust plume]

If they really cared about rescuing the crew of the UES Contact Light they would've given captain a proper rescue ship, they want the missing cargo and they don't mind a couple deaths if it means they'll recover something

[vapid dagger]

it just occurred to me that the circle is the inside of gun barrel

[molten hound]

maybe just a mistake

[supple stirrup]

I was making a reference 😔

[terse ferry]

solus wing is A mother unit

[gleaming flint]

so solus wing is a different mother unit from the lore we had before AC?

[eager barn]

yeah, makes the blood kinda funny in context

[golden linden]

no, no values in the game are written in notation no matter how big they get

someone purposely wrote it like that

[molten hound]

maybe it is a ref then

[eager barn]

i think thats just logbook

idk tho im not confident in that

[worldly haven]

grovetender just sent me to space

[supple stirrup]

They..
Heh
Tend to do that

[gleaming flint]

Sent you back to earth early

[supple stirrup]

🪳

[worldly haven]

just in time for my funeral

[gleaming flint]

do you guys think that merc listens to classic music before murdering people?

[worldly haven]

i tried to get back crits on grovetender by standing on him, not such a wise idea looking back on it

[gleaming flint]

on the BACK, looking BACK on it HAWHAHAHAHAHASHDASUDYGAFGYGYEFEGI

[old python]

Mmmm yea sticking right up an enemy's ass usually isn't.

Well, atleast not for most of them.

[worldly haven]

yea but back home

[echo idol]

sometimes laser of the father isnt so bad

[worldly haven]

i've had great results doing that against discount rhys-ball

[echo idol]

i need to ask mr mod man to fix ruin counting for two debuffs cs im tired of proccing deathmark when i shouldnt be

[eager barn]

laser of the father with high growth makes me feel like im playing weird commando

[terse ferry]

freakymando

[upper wing]

honestly, i bet laser of the father is fine

i am just bothered that it doesnt scale with attack speed properly

[echo idol]

it could use a slight proc increase nothing major but yeah its fine

seeing everyone give the elaborate reworks to it while fun to watch are really unecessary

[terse ferry]

i think the fact that you have to commit to losing all your ruin stacks to use lotf for its full duration does warrant a bit more of a buff

[echo idol]

like the move works in what it does, its just bugged lol

[vapid dagger]

if it scaled with attack speed properly itd probably still be a proc machine even with 0.45 proc coef

[golden linden]

I mean you are the one who did the whole thread on how it's bugged

[eager barn]

it has a very slight antisynergy where the alt has a stupidly over the top synergy

[golden linden]

you came around to all that?

[eager barn]

the attack speed scaling is a bummer

[echo idol]

i cant remember if i suggested a rework to it then or not

[upper wing]

the community’s obsession with unnecessarily reworking everything they dont like from the ground up bothers me

[echo idol]

but yeah its bugged as hell but ultimately i dont think it needs a rework

[fresh idol]

i liked Railgunner at first because she just molds the gameplay loop to what she wants to be, and it feels like a constant tug of war with the game. forcing yourself into the game is what i feel like is a strategy that works for me back at the time, because of how easy it is to play her. Playing Railgunner reflected how i wanted to learn Risk of Rain 2, just screw everything and let me snipe. it worked. it reflected my mindstate of how i wanted to approach the game

but then a very cool person asked me to play Commando with nades and it wasn't like that anymore. this character molded himself into me because i already understood how the game works from playing it a lot with Railgunner. it doesn't feel like i'm just screaming back at the game, it feels like i'm working with it. i like Commando because i like Risk of Rain 2 and it's mechanics

[eager barn]

its weird how false son now has 3 different associated eye lasers

[terse ferry]

also it still grants spikes based on a specific timer instead of properly fully refilling them 😭

[echo idol]

its purpose works its just bugged to not really do its purpose

[golden linden]

so by fine you mean that it is fine if it got the bugs fixed?

[echo idol]

bugs fixed as is tick fixed and its weird refill bug(?) fixed yeah i think it would be fine

[golden linden]

I see that

[vapid dagger]

the refill bug is probably partially due to attack speed not scaling it

[echo idol]

its purpose as false sons highest dps option works because it means false son has this different approach to combat than laser burst, where you dump all your spikes into a high health enemy, and dump your fully charged laser into them as well

combining his damage multiplication and his highest dps output

[eager barn]

imo they shouldnt have buffed laser burst

[echo idol]

wtith the tradeoff being that you cant maintain ruin as easily as burst

which is what separates them

[fresh idol]

wasn't the problem of Laser of the Fater just that it was bugged? nerfing it was completely unecessary

[vapid dagger]

i thought the tradeoff was holding onto the spikes for the attack speed benefit that provides

[eager barn]

it wouldve already been improved by secondary reworks and both burst and lotf had a pretty good balance

[vapid dagger]

bc if it actually scaled properly with attack speed you would want to do this more

[echo idol]

laser of the father serves as false sons i want to kill this man button when something has enough ruin built into it to burst down the rest of its hp, laser burst is something that lets false son kill enemies by slowly building up ten thousand ruin

[terse ferry]

im pretty sure even if it scaled properly with attack speed the double dipping 10% damage boost per stack would generally be more valuable than the 5% attack speed per spike
even if the attack speed would improve the proc rate

[golden linden]

"slowly"

[vapid dagger]

it ticks faster and charges faster

[echo idol]

yeah slowly in quotation marks

[vapid dagger]

it also is safer bc you have armor for it all

[echo idol]

above everything else ruin needs to be shot in the foot

shoot its tumor called "why is it so bugged"

[vapid dagger]

and yeah ruin needs to be fixed too

[echo idol]

then after that can we consider that laser burst does not need a cooldown that low

[eager barn]

trying to make it equivalent to burst would be dumb anyway cause burst is stupidly nutty imo

[gleaming flint]

Here is my fan artifact: --Artifact of Wing-- (unlocked by killing solus wing and stealing its wings)
Makes every enemy a flying enemy by giving them wings.
Makes stationary enemies fly too.

ALT functionality:
Turns every enemy into their ---- wing variant, like LEMURIAN WING, WISP WING, GUP WING.
Works on bosses and major bosses (MITHRIX WING, VOIDLING WING, SOLUS WING WING, FALSE SON WING, SHART WING)

[languid crystal]

are u insinuating that ruin is too op?

[echo idol]

far too op yes why

[terse ferry]

mithrix if he wasnt countered by a single hopoo feather!?

[golden linden]

i dunno about safer, spending 4 spikes is already 3 slugs of regen

[languid crystal]

just making sure and yes i agree

even if it was nerfed false son would still be boring

[vapid dagger]

its also less armor which is better when you have nothing to heal

you can spend the shards to recover after that and reposition

[echo idol]

theres a whole myriad of things i would change abt false son but if they just. fix his animations fix his bugs hes already a much more enjoyable survivor

[terse ferry]

also shart wing

[golden linden]

that's the thing

[echo idol]

like im gonna be real with you chief i dont think false son needs that speed increase from using spikes. like at all

[golden linden]

you're better off spending it for damage than having it for the attack speed

[echo idol]

its kinda just there for no reason

[golden linden]

and you'll be safe too

[vapid dagger]

the attack speed IS damage

its already made faster on two fronts if it works properly

[golden linden]

it isn't 10% multiplicative linear stacking damage

[terse ferry]

with double dipping

[vapid dagger]

yes bc its also bugged

[agile kestrel]

imma try monsoon for the first time

[golden linden]

even without the double dipping it's more damage

[languid crystal]

i like it so i can use stone flux without crying

[terse ferry]

AC even if it scaled properly +5% attack speed is less than +10% damage multiplicatively

[gleaming flint]

WTF IS THIS

[echo idol]

@hollow ice idk how busy or active you are rn but if its not too out of the way i imagine this is a really simple and quick addition to the ruin nerf mod 🥺

[vapid dagger]

lotf would charge twice as fast and tick twice as fast for 100% speed
thats more than double output

you do have to consider the charge time

[golden linden]

twice as fast?

[vapid dagger]

for 100% speed yes
its pretty equivelant all things considered

[golden linden]

it's not tho, having a spike is +5% attack speed

having a spike on the enemy is 10% extra multiplicative damage

it can never catch up

[vapid dagger]

its multiplicative
bc its bugged

[echo idol]

the thing abt discussing whether or not its better to hold onto spikes or to expend them also depends on the amt of enemies nearby what your prioritized target is and which secondary youre using

the question does just kinda sway depending on what the current scenario is

[golden linden]

the 10% shouldn't be multiplicative?

[vapid dagger]

no it shouldnt

additionally
you can do a mix

[echo idol]

piss laser is pretty cool when it works

[vapid dagger]

spend like 5 of 10 spikes for 50% more damage and still maintain a second 25% attack speed boost

[golden linden]

you got a source on this?

[echo idol]

granted i procced death mark when i shouldnt which is also another beautiful product of bugged video game

but still laser can do dps when it feels like it

[vapid dagger]

my source is every other goddamn multiplier in the game

[golden linden]

what?

[languid crystal]

do ygs like lunar spike or lunar stakes more

[terse ferry]

stakes

[golden linden]

the other multipliers are multiplicative

[vapid dagger]

they are multiplicative on other multipliers not themselves

and dont transfer to procs

[echo idol]

i like spikes for easier ruin maintaining and i run lotf most of the time so i cant just laser burst my way out of everything

[golden linden]

so lunar ruin is multiplicative (?)

[echo idol]

but i like stakes a lot

[eager barn]

lunar ruin is an outlier in double dipping

[vapid dagger]

youre the one who said it was

[eager barn]

alongside breaching fin

[echo idol]

very fun to watch vand or primordial cube be used on a horde

then you chuck a stake in there

[golden linden]

you just said it is too

I know about the double dipping

[vapid dagger]

i thought that was what you were referring to

[golden linden]

what, no

[gleaming flint]

COLLECT MY SOLUSES

[terse ferry]

soli

[vapid dagger]

then why did you call it multiplicative here #ror2-discussion message

[golden linden]

because it is multiplicative in the same sense that a watch is multiplicative

watch stacks 20% linearly and lunar ruin stacks 10% linearly

[vapid dagger]

and so is attack speed in the same way

[golden linden]

ok? what is the matter then

[abstract dawn]

hello

[vapid dagger]

that attack speed boosts lotf
ON TWO FRONTS
charge speed
and tick rate

[abstract dawn]

is psg good on mult?

[sturdy knot]

What are your favorite items that scale in... well scale?
E.g. gas can increasing in AOE size or Tesla Coil/Mired Urn getting more targets per stack

[eager barn]

its alright

[golden linden]

more hp for a high base hp

[golden linden]

and?

[abstract dawn]

so scrap ig

[eager barn]

uke

[vapid dagger]

its 2 5% multipliers
vs 1 10% multiplier

[fresh idol]

do you like more health?

[sturdy knot]

O yea its amazing

[vapid dagger]

bc you get a 5% faster charge speed
and 5% more ticks

[fresh idol]

items in this game are more about what you need than what is good for the character

or also
what you want

[molten hound]

maaaaaaaaaaannnnn FUCK scorchers

[golden linden]

ok

[eager barn]

doesnt scale ticks i dont think

[vapid dagger]

this is assuming the skill gets fixed

[eager barn]

duration decreases and ticks become closer together afaik

[golden linden]

that still doesn't explain the problem you were having with me saying it's multiplicative

[gleaming flint]

What would the voidwhale's job in the void?

[golden linden]

and being rispid about it

[fresh idol]

what

[golden linden]

it says they carry the planets around

maybe eats them

[gleaming flint]

where?

[vapid dagger]

bc you were implying that one is while the other isnt

[golden linden]

void locus log iirc

[golden linden]

I was not

[vapid dagger]

then why didnt you mention it for lotf?

why did you describe lunar ruin as multiplicative but not attack speed?

[agile kestrel]

damn I got my ass kicked before I even got to the teleporter

[golden linden]

I didn't say it isn't

[terse ferry]

i mean is this even really true
like atm lotf is 2s charge time and 4s active time but what if it was 0s charge time and 6s active time
would anything change

[eager barn]

probs because 20% damage implies its the coefficient for the survivor stat sometimes

[sturdy knot]

the AC skins dont require you to play on Monsoon right?

[eager barn]

growth scales duration

[molten hound]

nah they dont

[golden linden]

I'm getting a lotf fix mod to check rn actually

[eager barn]

one exists??

[molten hound]

but before you try it check if the unlock is accept or deny

[golden linden]

by jeffdev

should be another one

[molten hound]

some characters like loader or captain are accept while others like mult and commando are deny

[terse ferry]

yeah but atm the discussion seems to just be the attack speed vs damage boost on its own no growth considered

[terse ferry]

alright it isn't

[molten hound]

accept ones are wireframes and deny ones are bird

[vapid dagger]

its supposed to tick faster too
but yeah after a while it does scale to just be longer instead of ticking faster bc thats how attack tick rate caps scale with attack speed beyond the game's limit

[eager barn]

@uneven bloom

[molten hound]

@plain narwhal

[vapid dagger]

and someone also mentioned that growth extends the duration itself which means it gets EVEN LONGER

[uneven bloom]

Hi guys

[molten hound]

hi gearbox employee #12

[uneven bloom]

Im gearbox enployee #12

[eager barn]

hi there exists a mod that fixes attack speed scaling on lotf

[golden linden]

yeah it gets longer but not from spending spikes

[uneven bloom]

i swear there was one but i don't remember which one i can't check rn

[echo idol]

nasty stage 1

[eager barn]

ah oki

[vapid dagger]

and at that point you can shed spikes to mix both attack speed and lunar ruin damage boosts

bc more multipliers is better than 1

[golden linden]

is the lotf bug fix mod jeffdevs?

[vapid dagger]

or it would be
if lunar ruin wasnt bugged with double dipping

[echo idol]

Iirc yeah jeff has one

[golden linden]

do you use another one?

[echo idol]

Its grouped with a general son tweaks mod

[vapid dagger]

which is why that needs to go too

[echo idol]

I dont use a lotf fix i just use ruin fixes

[gleaming flint]

Im making a new custom recipes pack, would be afterburner + scrap, white = 3 backup magazines too op?

[echo idol]

Balling with vanilla laser

[golden linden]

damn I need looking glass too for the dps counter

[echo idol]

what we think abt changing bursts hp requirement from 4 additional spikes/2 additional stakes to 6 additional spikes/3 additional stakes

Idk what the hp equivalent of it is

It just feels way too easy to get another burst rn

[vapid dagger]

i think more about nerfing the spike reload of burst

[echo idol]

Yeah i considered that but i imagine they changed it to 50% cause of stakes

[eager barn]

id revert burst i think it was in a good spot before

[vapid dagger]

leave the piercing at least

[echo idol]

Well dont revert it entirely old burst felt god awful to use

Yeah leave the piercing

But like 30% refill and what was it

750? 800 damage

[golden linden]

1000%

[echo idol]

doh

[vapid dagger]

i thought it was always 1000%

[golden linden]

it's 1250% now

[echo idol]

1000% sure idk why i thought otherwise

[vapid dagger]

why?

[echo idol]

To give it more oomph prolly

I dont rly care abt the damage increase its everything else they gave it

[sour nest]

Is light flux pauldron worthwhile for operator?

[vapid dagger]

yes

[sour nest]

I was thinking it was, thanks.

[vapid dagger]

you get lots of m2 recharge and can fly with ease

healing drones offset the attack speed reduction enough that you wont mind it

[placid quail]

Slower pew pew though : (

[sour nest]

Fair enough, and op's M1 isn't very good anyway.

[echo idol]

Anyways um i think son is a fun survivor to discuss its just that 90% of discussion ends up being “wow this guy is fucking buggy as shit janky as shit and busted as shit”

[terse ferry]

what

[vapid dagger]

its a fine m1
its just meh compared to his m2

[eager barn]

his m1 is good but his m2 is very good

[gleaming flint]

i HATE pretender's cipice

[eager barn]

i love operator primary

[terse ferry]

ykw i dont feel good enough to argue this

[sturdy knot]

So fun tho

[golden linden]

spending all spikes is 1002 laser damage
spending 2 spikes is 882
spending no spikes is 682

[placid quail]

I’m just happy we have another character with a handgun that goes pew pew

[sour nest]

His M1 is on the lackluster end of characters I'm gonna put it that way.

[terse ferry]

WHAT

[sturdy knot]

Damage wise?

[sour nest]

It's just an overall "whatever" M1, you ain't playing op for the M1.

[placid quail]

Easiest band procs of my life and ricochet

[sturdy knot]

I kinda am sometimes

[placid quail]

Also the decent range and 1.0 coefficient

It’s like Double Tap v2

[eager barn]

that is exactly why i play him lol

[sour nest]

Can ya'll tell me which characters' M1's are worse than ops?

[eager barn]

loader

[vapid dagger]

its still definitely not as good as double tap is but its fine

[sour nest]

I can't speak for loader tbf.

[sturdy knot]

Engineer has an absolute balls primary

[placid quail]

Literally and figuratively

[sturdy knot]

Also I love Seeker and Chef's primaries, but god damn they are AWFUL in mutliplayer

[sour nest]

How come they're bad in multi?

[sturdy knot]

Chef is borderline unplayable with any amount of lag

[vapid dagger]

seekers?

[sturdy knot]

Cause they are serverside

[vapid dagger]

oh the lag

[sturdy knot]

Projectiles and all that

[sour nest]

Ah fair.

[sturdy knot]

Ofc operator's also lags IIRC but not nearly as much its much closer to hitscan

[gleaming flint]

no cause alien head combos so well with visions of heresy

[terse ferry]

it is hitscan

[placid quail]

Double tap and however op’s m1 is called are so satisfying to use for me

[sturdy knot]

Oh mb

[vapid dagger]

pretty sure operators is hitscan like double tap yeah

[terse ferry]

hitscans have damage delay based on ping in multiplayer but whether or not they hit is completely clientside

[fresh idol]

i can only think of Railgunner
can't crit, very short range, shoots slow

[sturdy knot]

^

[sour nest]

Yeah that's who I was thinking.

[fresh idol]

her m1 was designed to be bad so whatever

[sturdy knot]

Now Railgunner's primary is not a primary you play the character for

[sour nest]

But you see even with all of those characters eliminated, it still puts op in the lower end of M1s.

[placid quail]

Her primary is only a primary in name

[fresh idol]

i don't really dislike any m1 in this game i think

[sturdy knot]

Not really. Op's M1 feels better than most characters

[sour nest]

I prefer most characters' M1's to op.

[eager barn]

i only dislike using saw i think

[gleaming flint]

VOH; See No Evil
EOH; Think No Evil
HOH; Do No Evil
SOH; Walk No Evil??

(Voh = visions of heresy, eoh = essence of heresy, and so on)

[eager barn]

flurry could be more interesting too but whatevs

[fresh idol]

oh you remembered me about scrap launcher that thing is garbage

[terse ferry]

i mean the thing here is i dont think you can have a lower half of m1s because there are too many m1s that are similar in power but do too different things to be compared in any way

[sour nest]

Ops is very forgettable for me, eh DPS, eh ricochet gimmick, it's just mainly to support the M2 which is fine.

[placid quail]

Artificer’s m1 has me like since the speed is so low

[vapid dagger]

it gets really fast in late game

[fresh idol]

i can see how people can dislike alt m1

[sour nest]

I'm not complaining about it, op shouldn't have a top tier M1, it's not their point.

[sturdy knot]

Double tap is consistent but not interesting. Merc's is just okay. Captian's is great in terms of strength but gets really old with the M1 spam or having to hold it down sometimes, Acrid' primary is only used in stage 1-2 etc etc

[terse ferry]

but it IS on the upper

[vapid dagger]

yeah me too
but i still disagree with them

[placid quail]

Slow travel time and one-at-a-time recharge

[terse ferry]

oh my fucking god i hate it here

[fresh idol]

yeah

[placid quail]

The problematic tag implies this, yes

[fresh idol]

i thought about typing "bc they are very close minded" but i didn't type that but now i did

[sturdy knot]

The ricochet, sound design and VFX do it for me.

Without em, especially the ricochet, yea I'd agree it's kinda borin

[sour nest]

What is the most forgetful class in ya'lls books? For me it's seeker.

[vapid dagger]

rex somehow

[sturdy knot]

oh yeah I forgot about rex

[fresh idol]

yeah i was coonsidering every single character except Rex

[sturdy knot]

Nobody plays rex

[eager barn]

seeker

[fresh idol]

i legit forgot him

[placid quail]

Rex is somehow one of the most unique AND forgettable characters

[sturdy knot]

Like I was thinking maybe merc or loader cause I havent played them in ages but at least I see others play them.
Not rex tho

[terse ferry]

i wanna say mul-t because i never feel like playing him, nobody talks about him, and he doesn't have the seeker/fs syndrome of being comically powerful to the point of memorability

[sour nest]

I remember rex because he has some of the lowest probability of a terrible run, rex pretty much cannot have a terrible run in the first place. But yeah that's pretty much the only reason I remember him.

[terse ferry]

or the void fiend syndrome of me actively hating him

[sturdy knot]

MUL-T is memorable to me cause he is the go-to when you want to be stupid and have as many on-hit effects as physically possible in the game

[fresh idol]

MULT is pretty memorable

[eager barn]

oh wait i read seeker and brain jumped a step thought you said strongest 😭

[sturdy knot]

Overall commando is better for that but double nailgun MUL-T does have more hits, even if shorter range

[placid quail]

My rex arc begins

[eager barn]

uhh i forget bandit the most prolly

[sturdy knot]

I also remember MUL-T because his rockets arent AFFECTED BY IBM WHYY

[gleaming flint]

1 + = free damage

[sour nest]

I feel like Mul-T deserves a little buff but I'm not sure what.

[sturdy knot]

ahh moment

[placid quail]

You must really love the game and play it a lot

[gleaming flint]

did you cheat your lunar coins?

[eager barn]

1 base damage

lol

[sturdy knot]

I've seen few people who haven't

[echo idol]

mult is fucking nuts he dont need no buff

😭

[sturdy knot]

Oh yeah I have uh 300 hours

[gleaming flint]

ive never intentionally cheated coins, lol

[sturdy knot]

(I actually do)

[eager barn]

i dont think they need a buff personally

[sour nest]

Sure if you build double rebar which is lame.

[placid quail]

I think I’m at 800something

[echo idol]

or literally any build that isnt double saw

[sturdy knot]

Every time I die and spectate everyone has like 9 billion lol

[echo idol]

and mult is nuts

[vapid dagger]

i do feel like mul-t still consistently performs worse than commando in my experience

[unique hawk]

[gleaming flint]

half of a dead god save file

[placid quail]

I love how simple double nail power mode is

[sturdy knot]

The hell is a dead god save file

[sour nest]

Honestly... Kinda same.

[gleaming flint]

A 100%, totally completed tboi file that takes around 600 hours to complete

[echo idol]

This is who we must buff

[sour nest]

"My busted build means the character is busted"

[eager barn]

6 stealthkits lol

[echo idol]

I can get ten thousand other videos of me melting with mult if that makes you feel better

[sturdy knot]

god dam. I'd never reach that

[gleaming flint]

also, if you want to go to the absolute rock bottom, you can do 3 dead gods to reach infinity%, wich takes, huhhhhh...
1800 hours

[gleaming flint]

actually, only REAL unemployed people reach dead gods

[sour nest]

I can get a thousand videos of captain melting. I don't think videos of busted builds are very good ways to defend or go against a class.

[sturdy knot]

I AM unemployed

[gleaming flint]

only chuds unlock dead god

[echo idol]

And my point is that he is consistently fucking insane

[gleaming flint]

are you a TRUE bum tho?

[sturdy knot]

What does true bum mean

[echo idol]

A brick you cannot shake that outs some of the highest dps in game

[eager barn]

i wouldnt call that a busted build

[obtuse tartan]

Real ass

[sturdy knot]

What does THAT mean

[echo idol]

And yeah for the record thats not even “busted” like at all

[eager barn]

its a good one, 6 tri tip, 3 stickybomb and a polylute are nice

[gleaming flint]

someone who has no life outside of their basement, plays 60/60/24/7/12/365

[golden linden]

commando wouldn't have killed them faster with the same items

[sturdy knot]

No I have to make a living for myself so no

[echo idol]

Its mult having his 50% damage reduction which greatly enhances healing

[golden linden]

and couldn't even be in the same level of "don't care"

[echo idol]

On top of being a proc demon

[gleaming flint]

then you'd never reach a dead god in a LONG, LONG time

[sturdy knot]

I'd never reach it cause i would never aim for it

[gleaming flint]

im not kidding that game has a lot of unlocks

[sturdy knot]

I am not a completionist

[gleaming flint]

why

do you not want to fully experience the game???

[livid idol]

This is why mul-t has 11 base damage

[gleaming flint]

67 base damage

[sturdy knot]

Why would I care about that if there's parts of the game I don't care to experience

[vapid dagger]

commando wouldve already been done with the stage

[obtuse tartan]

Why would I want to play tboi for 600 hours when I could be watching paint dry

[fresh idol]

he would have avoided more damage and get more range to work with

[sour nest]

It's basically the prime build a Mul-T proc runner would want.

[golden linden]

would not/would had to care

[eager barn]

im sorry but this reads like a powerscaling squabble and it made me giggle

[golden linden]

the claim is yours also, go prove it

the items are on the screen

[vapid dagger]

it does yeah

[eager barn]

its good but its nothing crazy

my dad is commando and he would beat up your dad who is mul-t

[golden linden]

also the false son thing is bullshit

[echo idol]

Not at all lol the only super notable things i had here were leeching seed and tritip

[sour nest]

I cannot tell what's making him soo tanky in that run.

[fresh idol]

his movement ability is on a faster cooldown and double tap does have more range than nailgun

[livid idol]

I think loader would be done with the stage first because she has like the second best cross map mobility just straight up

[echo idol]

I can think of 20 other items i would want

[vapid dagger]

bc if we cant measure it in a spread sheet it must be bullshit

[livid idol]

Also my dad would beat up your dad :)

[eager barn]

112 armour

powermode

[echo idol]

Its almost like mult taking 50% less damage in powermode is extremely good because that gives healing items 50% more wiggle room to heal you 🤔

[eager barn]

the mired urn and knurl was helping a little too

[golden linden]

I ain't able to export the clip but spending all spikes is 1009 while spending none is 665 is and spending 2 is 829

[vapid dagger]

and the times for each one?

[livid idol]

Whats the false son thing

[supple stirrup]

Super Bum

[gleaming flint]

holy tboi refrence

[supple stirrup]

[golden linden]

many hoops to jump through to get 30% more damage from having the extra charge speed

[pure axle]

no capcom

[vapid dagger]

it was always the basis for the claim anyway

[sour nest]

Okay fair enough, I cannot really speak for powermode but retool builds aside from rebar I feel like should get a bit of a bump up.

[vapid dagger]

cool to see you just ignored that

[sturdy knot]

If commando was strong enough to destroy the entire planet of Viltrum he should not be taking any knockback from the hits of random dinosaur guy thats barely bigger than him

[golden linden]

I have not, you just said it was the basis for your claim

[eager barn]

i think having 2 equips makes up for it

[gleaming flint]

when my mom (holy tboi reference) says that my dad (holy tboi reference) is a super bum (holy tboi reference x2) and that she's divorcing him, and tells him to sign the divorce papers, then proceeds to fake a death certificate (holy tboi reference x6) to fake her death and change her identity to run away from the country (holy tboi reference 3x)

[sour nest]

I think that's kinda overrated. You need to get 2 equips in the first place, and an item has that exact same gimmick which kinda devalues that gimmick.

[echo idol]

functional coupler is very strong
having that built in in also, very strong

getting the item multiplies its value

[eager barn]

i think buffing a survivor in response to an item is not the best basis

[vapid dagger]

i always
from the very fucking start
on multiple accounts #ror2-discussion message #ror2-discussion message
said that the charge speed was part of it
which doesnt do damage outright
its just faster
which in and of itself allows more damage to be done within the same time period

[eager barn]

powercreep 101

[sour nest]

I don't think an item should really copy a survivor's gimmick in the first place.*

[golden linden]

it does not, it barely adds half a second

[eager barn]

fairsies

[golden linden]

you also gain charges while using the laser

which we both not considered

[vapid dagger]

half a second is still significantly faster

[gleaming flint]

+ Honor = no cooldown

[eager barn]

crunder stole commando's gimmick of being orange and shooting fast

[vapid dagger]

and you treat that as negligible when it very much not

[golden linden]

from a laser that laststhat much

it is very much negligible

[sturdy knot]

Ror 2 makes me nostalgic for ror 1

[worldly haven]

what's lotf

[sturdy knot]

Love how similar the base feel is despite how different it is

[eager barn]

laser of the father

[golden linden]

laser of the father

[eager barn]

its impressive in that regard

[sour nest]

So like, if they're gonna have that item in the first place, I feel like retool's double item gimmick should at the least be changed slightly to function differently. Maybe smth like it uses both equipment at once and places the one you actively used on a 25% cd or smth.

[sturdy knot]

Very much so

[eager barn]

i like that too :)

[worldly haven]

the names in this game suck as descriptors ngl

[sturdy knot]

:D

[echo idol]

son son

[eager barn]

:D

[vapid dagger]

something that occurs every second is 50% weaker than something that occurs every half second
half a second can be an enourmous difference

[echo idol]

mistimed a mwill to dodge shotgun and saw my life flash before my eyes

[worldly haven]

i've learnt the name but not what it is

[echo idol]

but alas 30 hp and a dream

[eager barn]

false son special skill

[vapid dagger]

it is not negligible

[eager barn]

id say its pretty negligible for lotf

[golden linden]

full spikes is 27 ticks of damage, no spikes is 24

[vapid dagger]

i would not

[eager barn]

lotf charge time we talking?

[golden linden]

you also have done 4 extra instances of damage with the spikes

and have the lunar ruin multiplier

[vapid dagger]

that is true

[eager barn]

lotf scales duration with growth and you dont need to interrupt it to reposition with step

you can charge it and then maintain it for a good while, the downtime is pretty low whether the charge is high or not

not that the charge being low isnt useful, having it be sooner defo has its usecases

[vapid dagger]

its still more damage from being able to shoot it more often and being less hindered since it does still reduce your movement to charge it

[sullen wing]

anyone else forget operator was in the game

[golden linden]

no lunar ruin applied lotf still does 560 damage

from 665 with spikes on charge

[worldly haven]

the wiki was very helpful in explaining what lotf is

[vapid dagger]

if damage per cast of the skill is the only thing you care about yeah shooting the spikes is better

but thats a gross oversimplification of the game to the point that its practically worthless as a metric

i guess its good to know if you want your damage bursts to be burstier

[sturdy knot]

I looked it up and I dont see it

[sour nest]

So I accidentally pressed the final teleporter without setting it to loop, am I cooked chat?

[sturdy knot]

You can change it later

[worldly haven]

it's under false son

[eager barn]

do artifact teleporter afterwards

[eager barn]

you cant

[sturdy knot]

oh

[lone wraith]

yeah i was boutta say you can change it as well but i think that might be wolfo qol or something?

because i dont think you can change it by default ngl

[sour nest]

Which artifact? I don't use the artifacts often so I wouldn't know.

[lone wraith]

just a random code, the point is that it loops your run

idk you can google one

[eager barn]

any of them, it automatically loops if you go to unlock one

https://riskofrain2.wiki.gg/wiki/Artifacts

pick whichever interests yer most if you dont have them all already

[sour nest]

Ah okay sweet.

[terse sedge]

No, sour

I feel like being evil today

[worldly haven]

hey so uh

[gleaming flint]

does mithrix steal heresy items?

[golden linden]

from 665 to 1002 damage
almost 50% increse in damage
4 extra 1.0 hits that apply a debuff, that is 2 debuffs

665 damage is the result of 20% attack speed which results in extra ticks and less recharge time

.5s less charge time
27 hits with full attack speed
2.2 hits per second
a hit is 18 damage

all spikes spent is 560 damage
to 665 there's 100 missing

so around 5 extra hits if we round it to 20 damage
plus the dps troubled half of a hit

[gleaming flint]

arent i softlocked if mithrix steals my heresy items as herectic?

[worldly haven]

i'm trying to buy the bundle with the dlcs in it for myself but it says i already have everything in the bundle, except i don't, i only have the basegame

[golden linden]

he doesn't

[languid crystal]

nah he doesnt

[terse sedge]

Yes, you can have 100 shaped glass, he steals them and you can one shot him

[vapid dagger]

what is the base charge time?

[terse sedge]

Wait i think i got heresy confused with lunars

[languid crystal]

he can steal lunars

[gleaming flint]

heresy items are just a subdivision of lunars

made by fans since they dont have a true category of their own

[terse sedge]

Damn

[eager barn]

wdym made by fans

its a set of four that share an unlock

[golden linden]

2s
x1.2 would be 40 extra ms

[gleaming flint]

they arent in a category of their own

they still are lunar items

but we call them heresy items since its easier to use

so, it is a fan subdivision

i guess

[vapid dagger]

base charge time is 2 seconds?
and 120% attack speed shaves 20% off of it?

so youre saying its 20% faster?

like i had been saying?

[golden linden]

I don't have the tools to precisely count from input to max charge flash, but it feels like .5s, which mathing it out looks to be 400ms

a second is 1000ms forgive me there

[vapid dagger]

thats way more than i expected it to be even

[golden linden]

the extra second would translate as an extra tick of damage

[gleaming flint]

i hate how many people dont understand analogies and metaphors

[vapid dagger]

bc thats kind of saying its actually 25% faster

[golden linden]

no, 1/5 isn't 1/4

[vapid dagger]

a half second is 100% faster than 1 second

[gleaming flint]

GIVE HERECTIC MORE SKINS

[golden linden]

and it translates to an extra tick of damage

[old python]

Well, back to the captain run.

[eager barn]

isnt it a half second is a 50% faster than 1 second and 1 second is 100% more than 0.5 seconds

[golden linden]

an tick of 4 ruin stacks laser is 24 from 18, that is 25% extra per tick

[vapid dagger]

both
you have 2 half seconds per second

they happen at twice the rate

a second is 50% slower than a half second

but a half second is 100% faster than a second

[gleaming flint]

i love how you can see the difference in the ambience between fields, locus and planetarium

Fields is a blue with some big notes of dark purple and... purple, locus is purple and pink, and planetary is dark blue, black and dark purple

i believe that after some time, things just get pitch black

[vapid dagger]

you do also have to count how long it takes to fire the spikes themselves
but i dont really feel like arguing this anymore bc this conversation is pointless anyway and isnt going to convince either of us of anything

[gleaming flint]

the properties of the void are so cool

[vapid dagger]

and you can bring up syringes and how that makes everything faster as a baseline and renders the attack speed benefits of spikes less valuable
i can bring up that its not as reliable and you shouldnt take items into account despite it being a potential part of the equation
and i can bring up the fact lunar ruin still has a timer or literally every animation youve failed to account for and insist on its relevance or the armor that does make false son exceptionally tanky
and someone else can bring up the armor boosting items that render that useless
and on the other side i bring up the regen boosting items and other kinds of healing that render the regen boost less useful including having more armor
and that speed items exist and arent necessary for the spikes
and that its ideal to flip between the boosts when relevant anyway
and theres endless back and forth bc the game can not and will not ever be boiled down to a spreadsheet and basic math in a way that isnt reductive af

[agile kestrel]

This is off topic but your name looks like a chumhandle

[vapid dagger]

it is supposed to be

[worldly haven]

i was gonna rant about how much i hate mini mushrums but the english language doesn't have an insult severe enough to properly address my pure despise toward what they are

[golden linden]

watch out for the new dlc then

[worldly haven]

yea, that's one dlc i will hate completing

[golden linden]

bigger mushrum

[worldly haven]

i'm already agonizing over it

nah, fuck that

[agile kestrel]

is this real

[candid ridge]

the

[golden linden]

yes

[livid idol]

Yes

[agile kestrel]

oh my god that is going to make the teleporter event impossible for me

[worldly haven]

if it makes you feel any better, i'm probably gonna suffer even worse against them

[vapid dagger]

what im dreading is that this thing is probably going to provide massive healing aoes for the fodder enemies

[agile kestrel]

i spam focused convergence the whatever its called that the mushrums shoot out is going to fill the entire teleporter up and im going to have to leave it every 2 seconds

[golden linden]

I saw someone say that they'll be able to carry mini mushrums on their back

[agile kestrel]

ive never done a run wthout focused convergence unless im going for incorruptible

[golden linden]

excited for that

[restive pawn]

Isn't there a logbook that mentioned providence by name but got renamed

[livid idol]

Mega mushrum leak:

[restive pawn]

Ridable mushrum ally item incoming

[gleaming flint]

if i enter a cyber portal in stage 4, i go to spex'ses crib, and if i leave i get sent to stage 5?

[golden linden]

yes

[gleaming flint]

ok then i can get some sauteed worms and fight mithrix

[sullen wing]

is it just me or do the green portal stages always have a bazillion temporary item dispensers

[golden linden]

yup

you mean potc maps?

[worldly haven]

i'm so hyperactive that if i get a speed debuff at all it's gonna throw me off my game for a few minutes, that's why i don't take frost relic, as while it doesn't slow you out the zoom out makes me feel slow and i despise it

[golden linden]

they can spawn there but haven't seem them in mass

[sullen wing]

yeah

[gleaming flint]

stealer

[sullen wing]

i always see like. at least 2 temporary item dispensers on the first stage there

[worldly haven]

one of my favorite pokemon lines compared to my least favorite enemy type in ror 2 ;w;

[gleaming flint]

are you SURE that im not getting sent to solutional haunt?

[golden linden]

you can't go back to solutional haunt after you go there once

in the same run, at least

[gleaming flint]

i havent beaten wing yet

[golden linden]

well you have to beat swing to go to spex

it's the only way there

[livid idol]

Mushrums aren't that bad idk

[gleaming flint]

we need another stage 5 variant

im tired of HELMINTH'S HATCHERY

[worldly haven]

i've already said why i hate them

[marble steeple]

Does fire stage five have boss printer?

[worldly haven]

they're actually one of the easier kills in my book, it's what they do that i have an issue with

[vital depot]

There’s no stage with a guaranteed yellow item printer

[worldly haven]

am i too new to understand

[vital depot]

Yes, one could spawn on Helminth Hatchery, same goes for any other stage

[marble steeple]

Sky meadows can't can it?

[gleaming flint]

nope

[vapid dagger]

i do think commando is pretty good

[golden linden]

neither helminth nor sky meadow spawn yellow printers

[vital depot]

Yeah Sky Meadows is the exception

[golden linden]

helminth isn't on that list either

[marble steeple]

Uhh

[golden linden]

so i guess it's both stage 5s

[marble steeple]

Okay thanks!

[worldly haven]

i kinda wanna do command huntress where i go for shaped glass whenever possible

[rancid temple]

huntress is the best character mabye

possibly

[gleaming flint]

look, i dont have all AC entries

but, i believe that Solus Almalmgalmaltor's job is to control the solus units?

[worldly haven]

solus what

[gleaming flint]

Bouncy solus

[gleaming flint]

Amalgamator

[worldly haven]

ah

the big eye?

[gleaming flint]

ts big guy

[worldly haven]

looks like a lego

something something same picture

[gleaming flint]

This implies that he just din't know HOW to make them work

[spare saddle]

be not afraid looking ass

[gleaming flint]

OHH I GOT IT

this as well

[gleaming flint]

he designed it

he doesnt know how to maek them work...........................

Do yall think that the herectic would be good friends with the scavengengers?

[languid crystal]

like in power or enjoyability

[rancid temple]

both

its hyperbole but she is pretty good

[livid idol]

Tbf people call commando the worst and he's quite good

There is no bad survivor

[knotty canyon]

huntress is the worst...technically...but she's also the best on vibes

[iron palm]

its like jontohil says about spy in tf2

Commando isn't bad, you are!

[clever seal]

blightcrid.

[knotty canyon]

blightcrid has bad vibes

[clever seal]

and is bad

like worse than huntress i'd say

minus EVEN MORE points when its blight bitecrid (which i like to play as tbh)

[gentle copper]

Risk of Rain 2

[austere prism]

blight sounds good on paper being able to kill with the dot and stacking but by god it's bad 😭

it could be better if you could just refresh duration on applying blight

[clever seal]

"part of a sale"
ok wheres our discount

[austere prism]

so it could be like bleed

[iron palm]

people always say that blight should stack infinitely like bleed and hemorrhage but i think thats a boring fix

i think it should have a proc coefficient or cause explosions on kill

maybe both

[clever seal]

or
hear me out: 2 stack per instance

[iron palm]

why not just double its base dps then

[clever seal]

less effectiveness on noxthorn

[spare saddle]

i ate it

[clever seal]

spit.

[iron palm]

how so?

noxious thorn rounds up im pretty sure

if you have 1 stack of blight on an enemy itll transfer 1 stack of blight to the nearby enemy when it dies

if you have 2 stacks of blight it only transfers 1

[clever seal]

it transfers 1/3 stacks onto the next victim

[iron palm]

but it al ways transfers a minimum of 1

and if you have a high amount of debuff stacks then itll be the same dps either way

[clever seal]

im talking abt this btw

[iron palm]

this is why its so broken with things like shattering justice and death mark

[iron palm]

i know
i dont see how thats better than just increasing the base dps of the debuff

[clever seal]

doubling its dps wouldnt nerf its interaction in anyway

[iron palm]

thats... what im saying

if you doubled its dps its interaction with noxious thorn would be better than just doubling the stack count

at least for low stack counts

for higher stack counts it would be basically the same

[clever seal]

the point is to buff it while making noxthorn + blight not getting out of hand too soon

[iron palm]

I don't really see how that's a problem

[clever seal]

well yea, but an 1 item win really isnt that fun

[iron palm]

if anything blight needs all the help it can get

[iron palm]

💀 it would not be a 1 item win

plus acrid can win e8 without any items anyway lmao (with poison)

[clever seal]

always has been

[vapid dagger]

commando is consistent

[iron palm]

so if anything blight needs literally all the help it can get

[gleaming flint]

Ez lol cry about it

ignore the dancing beetle

[clever seal]

i mean you have a point

[vapid dagger]

blight could be better

[clever seal]

but i still like the idea of double-stacking more tbh

anyway, here's a funny delirium win

[iron palm]

i just feel like its just doubling the dps with extra steps

[vapid dagger]

i like the idea of making blight nuke enemy attack power

[gleaming flint]

Here's a fun retic win

[vapid dagger]

so you can face tank and rush down more safely

[iron palm]

what if it lowered their attack speed hyperbolically

[clever seal]

ew mercretic
blasphemous

[rancid temple]

man the flase son fight is so cool I wish it wasnt completely broken on eclipse

[vapid dagger]

choose a boss and say "im going to eat you" and then theres nothing they can do about it

[gleaming flint]

I hate merc thats why i sacrificed him over retic

[clever seal]

man gtfo

playing heretic for the sake of cheesing is lame

just save-edit atp

literally the same

[iron palm]

i hate playing void fiend but id still play him if i selected him

[vapid dagger]

Also blight should last as long as poison

[iron palm]

i'd only play heretic if i went into the run with the sole intent of doing so

[iron palm]

it DOESN'T?

[blissful torrent]

half the duration iirc

[clever seal]

nah
2% damage output reduction per stack

[molten hound]

i sometimes play heretic just for the fun of it

[gleaming flint]

i'll NEVER save edit

[molten hound]

god i love eulogy zero

[clever seal]

same. moral. value.

[iron palm]

That wouldn't do much against high damage targets

[gleaming flint]

i wanted to unlock her so i could play her oftenly

[blissful torrent]

what if blight stacks just refreshed on reapplication like bleed does

[iron palm]

whereas lowering their attack speed would make reacting to and dodging their attacks easier

[clever seal]

20% is very useful

[iron palm]

BOOOORING

[iron palm]

mithrix and false son still gonna one shot you

[clever seal]

that just makes them slap you slower, not making them any easier to breathe

[vapid dagger]

20% hyperbolic stacking

[blissful torrent]

20% exponential stacking.

[molten hound]

what if blighted enemies exploded with blight giving enemies around it blight aswell

[iron palm]

uh it would actually becuase again you have more time to react

[blissful torrent]

pov noxious thorn

[molten hound]

20% garphonzo stacking.

[iron palm]

i was thinking they should explode on death and have a proc coefficient

[clever seal]

20% dr with expo is gonna be stupid

[iron palm]

that would make it stronger and unique

[clever seal]

built-in spleen moment

[iron palm]

bleed doesnt have a proc coefficient

[blissful torrent]

what if blight lasted for 10 seconds and it did 1% max health per second (minimum 100% of your damage stat) but it couldn't be stacked and couldn't reduce health below 1

[clever seal]

spleen boom has tho doesnt it

[orchid sparrow]

cooking?

[iron palm]

Idk

[gleaming flint]

i used merc to get retic cuz he's fast

[blissful torrent]

-# that was the joke

[iron palm]

either way giving the debuff itself a proc coefficient would be very unique

but on its own it prob wouldnt be enough to be on par with blight

which is why i suggested explosion on kill

since after all blight's main draw aside from stacking it is that its actually lethal unlike poison

[blissful torrent]

giving the debuff a proc coefficient would be very strong i think tbh

[iron palm]

i can tell you from playing the modded survivor nemesis commando that while it is strong its nowhere near as insane as poison's max hp damage

[blissful torrent]

🤷‍♀️

i don't play modded survs

so no comment

[spare saddle]

6-7

dw i hate myself

[blissful torrent]

would imagine it depends on how much of a proc chance it has

[gleaming flint]

no you don't

you LOVE yourself

[iron palm]

some people suggested making its proc coefficient increase along with its damage with amount of stacks but i think thatd be horrendously busted

[gleaming flint]

we need a false son false

[spare saddle]

if i loved myself i would not be making 67 jokes

[vapid dagger]

If it was given a proc coef itd have to be like 0.2 or something extremely low

[blissful torrent]

i also will just say that i don't think blight has to be on par with poison — imo it just has to be an alternate choice that feels compelling in its own way

rn blight rarely if ever feels better or more interesting than poison

[iron palm]

0.2-0.5 i say

[vapid dagger]

I also just dont like the idea of a debuff having a proc coef at all

[iron palm]

I think it would open up some interesting gameplay choices

[blissful torrent]

i'm never like "this woulda been a cool blight run" when i play poison

[iron palm]

for instance

if you stacked tri tips on a character with a proc coefficient debuff

you would be able to keep that bleed going much longer without directly attacking them

so if you need to retreat

you dont instantly lose it all

[vapid dagger]

It would also rapidly proc shrimps

[blissful torrent]

i immediately thought "wouldn't this be awful for anyone who can't mod plimp to be quieter"

even outside of balance

[iron palm]

if thats a problem for you then dont take it

plus couldnt you just make the debuff tick slower than other debuffs

[vapid dagger]

Its not a problem so much as its just kind of insane

[blissful torrent]

i just think blight needs some kinda simple power buff tbh

[vapid dagger]

I know from experience with rex that atg still procs very often for him and is still one of his best items

[blissful torrent]

it doesn't need a whole new effect

[vapid dagger]

Despite having a 0.5 proc coef

[iron palm]

well here are my 3 suggestions for buffing blighit without just making it a boring alternative to bleed
1: give it a proc coefficient
2: make it explode on hit or on kill (probably the latter)
3: make it reduce all stats hyperbolically per stack except max hp (like an inverse irradiant pearl)

[vapid dagger]

All stats except max hp

[iron palm]

yea

[vapid dagger]

Bc if it hit max hp wed have a problem as itd kind of just be better poison

[primal nova]

I alr got the all you got achievement for operator on my first run 🥹

[iron palm]

yea i get that

[vapid dagger]

Also make it last as long as poison

[primal nova]

And transport drones are funny

[vapid dagger]

Theres no good reason it doesn’t atm

[iron palm]

well that's an obvious one

didnt feel a need to mention it as i thought it would've been a given

[bitter steppe]

Judgement

[iron palm]

pinos brine skin for false son when

[vapid dagger]

I try not to assume anything as a given but yeah i would assume it should be a given

[iron palm]

fair

[vapid dagger]

I do think reducing attack power by 20% would already be strong enough with a 10 second duration

[iron palm]

i think itd be more interesting to reduce all stats (except max hp) by a smaller amount

plus 20% per stack would be broken in the most boring way

[vapid dagger]

20% with a ten second duration would nerf attack power to almost 50% at 3 stacks which would be the baseline of m2 alone

[spare saddle]

optimus prime????

[austere prism]

proc coefficient blight sounds cool

[iron palm]

yeah i dont think thats fun

[austere prism]

kinda like Nemesis Commando's gouge or wtv it was called

[iron palm]

nor balanced

[vapid dagger]

It would render a lot of bosses close to harmless and would be balanced by needing to aggressively maintain it and only apply to one target at a time

[round sandal]

Does a sneaky meow

[blissful torrent]

-# chat, the sneaky meower is here!

[iron palm]

and then you get the problem of being shot in the back by other stuff

[vapid dagger]

Which is the risk

[spare saddle]

my ears have been blessed

[iron palm]

so if you have only 1 enemy then its an instant win

[spare saddle]

i saw that

[iron palm]

and if you have multiple then suddenly youre dying to everything else

[vapid dagger]

Or at least playing around that

[round sandal]

Saw what?

[vapid dagger]

Isolating a target to melt quickly

[round sandal]

Yeah she is

[terse ferry]

of rain

[spare saddle]

huh
nothing must have been the wind

[languid crystal]

shes not THE best in terms of how broken the survivors are

[iron palm]

having it reducing all stats by a smaller amount would allow it to still be useful for suppressing crowds while still allowing you to cripple a singular target without completely making it harmless

[vapid dagger]

Bc blight does end up doing some pretty ok damage when stacked aggressively

[languid crystal]

if we spoke strictly balance/power, huntress is very balanced and hence probably doesny even make top 10 in terms of being op

[clever seal]

2

[vapid dagger]

It still helps with crowds tho since epidemic would do a total of 700% damage to every enemy it hits

And theyre hitting for only 80% attack power in the meantime

[iron palm]

over 10 seconds

[primal nova]

Wait can drons proc ur items while playing as operator? Or am I seeing things

[iron palm]

that really isnt gonna help as much as you think it does when the main goal of the game is to not get hit

why do you think healing and max hp is so irrelevant for most survivors

[austere prism]

with base m2 yea

[primal nova]

Cus ive seen merf proc like 3x

[primal nova]

Okay 🥹

[vapid dagger]

Its bc of defensive effects like this

[iron palm]

your abilities proc items because they are considered your attacks and not your drone's attack

[primal nova]

Can't wait to find a tc 280

[cloud topaz]

just realised u basically just play acrid like u play winston in overwatch

[iron palm]

but your drones doing their own thing do not inherit your items

[primal nova]

Okok 😭😭😭

[cloud topaz]

tickle people with ur m2 to whittle them down while leaping to reposition every few seconds till u win from movement advantage

[round sandal]

Collect my meows

[spare saddle]

i have a sudden urge to go collect meows

[iron palm]

defensive effects like what

[vapid dagger]

Ultimately taking less damage will perform more reliably than healing back the damage you do take
Many ways to do this with the most obvious being this thing we call “dodging”

[iron palm]

dodging being easier if you're reducing stats like attack speed and movement speed

[vapid dagger]

But damage reduction effects do this too

[old python]

Doing a captain run with my little brother on playstation, god is split screen fucking bugged.

But enemies losing animation is fairly funny.

[primal nova]

Wait I js noticed isnt drone parts broken on operator 💀

[iron palm]

plus if an enemy's already going to one shot you for like 10x your max hp or something like that

reducing their damage by 20% aint gonna change that

[vapid dagger]

And an enemy that is dead cant strike you as readily
So what makes healing unreliable is that its always slower than the damage you take

[iron palm]

reducing their other stats would however help

[cloud topaz]

i lowkey forgot the series s/x and ps5 versions had official splitscreen

[primal nova]

Pov glass arti

[old python]

Drone parts are broken on everyone lmao.

[vapid dagger]

If you make it so that you can survive more hits healing becomes better as a result

[primal nova]

But itll be most broken on operator would it not

[old python]

It's very bugged, but yk you endure it for the fun of playing with someone.

[vapid dagger]

But theres always a limit to how much healing you need

[spare saddle]

imagine if captains microbots got affected my drone parts

[vapid dagger]

Bc theres a cap on your hp

[iron palm]

why would you try to force that though unless youre already playing a character who cares about it

[vapid dagger]

But you can technically raise that too

[iron palm]

i.e. rex seeker fs

[vapid dagger]

Bc it makes the game mind numbingly easy if done right

[iron palm]

plus other characters fill the tank role already

loader, false son, power mode mult

directive drill rex

hell even seeker to an extent

[old python]

Man I want enforcer in this game.. I want a full on tank.

[vapid dagger]

It took me a single e8 run as commando focusing on building tank to actually get it to work

[cloud topaz]

if u ever get the game on a pc theres a really good splitscreen mod that even works with multiple monitors i think

[primal nova]

I lowk havent used a controller in abt 2 weeks

[old python]

Wait fr?

[iron palm]

and the mithrix fight probably took 40 minutes and he still wouldve killed you in 1 hit with a hammer slam or pizza

[old python]

Ive been using mouse and keyboard alot lately, using controller again feels like pain.

[primal nova]

I find it easier to play just using the lites controller
Using the up button on my dpad as my sprint

[cloud topaz]

yeah xSplitScreen

[iron palm]

and you probably had to get exactly the perfect items to make it work in the first place

[primal nova]

Isn't it easier on kbm

[iron palm]

or just took transcendence which basically invalidates the whole argument in the first place

[vapid dagger]

It actually didn’t bc building tank doesn’t mean you stop building damage or playing intelligently

[old python]

In general, as in all games but yeah.. god bless controller players.

Been on controller my whole life but god is m&k easier.

[iron palm]

More healing/defense items prioritized = less damage items prioritized

Why else do people like transcendence so much? they can scrap every healing item

[vapid dagger]

And that barely mattered

[spare saddle]

hi general, as in all games but yeah.. god bless controller players.
its nice to meet you

[old python]

Mb.

[fast hatch]

risk of rain sounds impossible on controller

[iron palm]

My point still stands though: other characters do it better.

[vapid dagger]

Bc i could spend way less time and energy worrying about the damage i take bc its kinda just nothing