ror2-game-questions

[flint lark]

void fields is vanilla

[tender temple]

its a lot more noticeable in sots when theres only 19 items in total

[frank sluice]

exactly my point

[peak jacinth]

that’s not really an excuse tho

[frank sluice]

i said "unpause", meaning it was there before

[tender temple]

it isnt aimed to be an excuse

sotv isnt much better off in terms of item balance

theres just a lot more items

sots only has half of the items being bad but thats only because of the stat issues primarily

while sotv has a good chunk of the items being bad which is a conceptual issue

sots only really has one(1) item that is genuinely irredeemable and its transmitter

the rest are super easy to just make desirable enough

[frank sluice]

conceptually, i agree

[flint lark]

transmitter is one of the better sots items 💀

[tender temple]

?

[frank sluice]

^^ never been fucked over by transmitter before

[flint lark]

mostly because it makes you invulnerable after it teleports you, it's a genuine save most of the time

[peak jacinth]

yea this is just wrong

[tender temple]

elaborate

[peak jacinth]

war bonds is worse than ghors tome

antler shield does nothing

[flint lark]

been saved by it around 10x more than "fucked over"

[tender temple]

which is easily solved by just tweaking the item a little? my point still stands

[flint lark]

guys, if you change the items to be different then they will be good

[tender temple]

also easily solvable by just tweaking the stats

[peak jacinth]

which items can’t you tweak in sotv to make it balanced???

[tender temple]

tweaks and reworks are different things entirely

[uncut wadi]

As it stands rn sotv makes the game better, sots makes it worse

[flint lark]

and i used neither of those words lol

[uncut wadi]

Yippeeeeee

[tender temple]

like the majority of void items needing reworks and not tweaks? shit like hunters harpoon?

[flint lark]

changing antler shield to reflect 1000% instead of 10% would still be a "change"

[uncut wadi]

Also yoo orange chat

[hushed slate]

as uh huntress what items should be on my top priority?

assuming bleed crit and syringes

[uncut wadi]

Standard fair for proc quantity characters except for bleed

[flint lark]

commando mains

[hushed slate]

wwit why not bleed

[frank sluice]

alt primary NEEDS crit
aside from that build normally

[uncut wadi]

Huntress isn't too great with bleed since her attack output isn't all that high to sustain it

And arrow rain has a 0.2 proc coefficient

[frank sluice]

it's buildable regardless, don't take that as meaning "avoid bleed"

[flint lark]

surely nobody is running arrow rain in 2024

[tender temple]

huntress isnt special in terms of builds

[hushed slate]

ive never played normally ive only done spammed acrid disposable missile bottle of chaod spam for the past week idk what build is normal 😓

[tender temple]

you take the same items you would take on anyone else

[flint lark]

step 1. turn off artifacts

[hushed slate]

ooh makes sense

[uncut wadi]

Well raw damage items, mobility, proc items, etc

[analog brook]

You can afford to invest slightly less into mobility and more into damage with triple blink

[frank sluice]

the only thing you need to remember with huntress is that

• alt primary needs crit
• only thing that procs bands in your kits is a long chain M2 and Ballista
  that's it, just build normally from there

[tender temple]

default huntress is like the least fun you can have

[hushed slate]

i see i see

[flint lark]

no that'd be engi

[daring cloak]

So true

[hushed slate]

thats exactly why im trying to get the other skills by running glass + command rn

[uncut wadi]

She can skim out on a lot of mobility if you got phase blink, so balance your kit however it suits the enemy balance

[tender temple]

default engi is a different "experience" while default huntress is just objectively torture

[flint lark]

oh i mean engi in general, even with harpoons its the most boring character

[frank sluice]

I run default Utility on Huntress and I still don't need mobility lol

[uncut wadi]

Both are objectively torture unless you're AC ig

[flint lark]

i wanna play the game but dont wanna actuall play the game, so I'll play engi

[uncut wadi]

Smilers

[tender temple]

strafe and flurry are like okay sure its not that big of a deal but the other alts are basically mandatory to have fun

[hushed slate]

which huntress primary is actually better

[daring cloak]

Default

[flint lark]

default unless you find a crit printer

[hushed slate]

also also what equipment? gorag opus/ocular hud i assume

[frank sluice]

alt primary scales better, but short run default is better

[tender temple]

default blink is super slow and inconvenient and the only upside it has is verticality, while the special is self explanatory since like 70% of your damage is ballista

[daring cloak]

Default is just more reliable

[uncut wadi]

Default is better starting point and proc coefficient

Alt gets better after 2 crit glasses dps wise

[tender temple]

the literal only use arrow rain has is the slow debuff for deathmark and thats it

but like what does said dmark give when i have no damage to use with it in the first place

[frank sluice]

always run alt primary and gamble your entire early game hitting like a wet noodle to chase the high of full crit flurry

[analog brook]

How many times does arrow rain even hit

[flint lark]

like 22?

[tender temple]

to be fair that is a stretch

[uncut wadi]

22 iirc

[tender temple]

flurry is worse without crits but its not THAT bad

[flint lark]

19 times

idk where i got 22 from now

[tender temple]

i always run flurry just because it feels better

[analog brook]

Yeah flurry is just as viable tbh, it's not like the worst ever, I ran it for 3 years without changing and it was just fine.

[uncut wadi]

Might be messing up with flamer since flamer hits are 95% and it hits more than 20

[frank sluice]

did you know Flurry crit hits for 4 times the damage, because it doubles both the damage and the shot count
always Flurry

[tender temple]

if i get crit it feels infinitely more fun and if i dont get crit i dont really feel that much worse off

[flint lark]

oh yeah flamethrower is 22 with no attackspeed, thats where i got it

[uncut wadi]

Flurry and strafe are comparable, I just use strafe since it feels better lol

[tender temple]

i dont lose out on much by hoping to get the item that everyone wants to get anyway

[flint lark]

wait is the bug where flurry shoots less than 6 shots if you have attack speed still in the game?

[uncut wadi]

99% should be

[flint lark]

I mean this (timestamped): https://youtu.be/5Rot7z2RIis?si=1zKzgIrWcH8-T_Qm&t=150

[uncut wadi]

It's the one where if you got enough attack speed the last arrow doesn't fire because attack animation overlay right?

If the mod for flurry was ported it's still bugged, if it isn't guess it's fixed

[analog brook]

Wow that is fucked

This is like finding out Santa isn't real

[little cloak]

Any tips to play in moonson?

[uncut wadi]

Items > timer

5 minute rule is a scam

[flint lark]

it's not much different than rainstorm, just keep playing

[tender temple]

just play the same way you did on rainstorm

[daring cloak]

Firstly. Practice
Every loss is a win because you got better

[uncut wadi]

You will always kill things if you live, so just live better

That's roughly it

[peak jacinth]

this just isn’t a true statement

[daring cloak]

Especially if you start to break down why you died and how you could avoid such a scenario in new runs

[little cloak]

aight thx

[tender temple]

no elaboration again?

[daring cloak]

Secondly
Positioning

[flint lark]

maruke prints 10 hunters harpoon on stage 3

[daring cloak]

Being in the right place at the right time is key for making sure you dont end up in inescapable situations

Using the stage geometry to block projectiles for you

[hushed slate]

do iii need crowbar as huntress or nah

[peak jacinth]

ok I do this as a joke

[flint lark]

goes crazy with fmp

[peak jacinth]

most void items are too strong because of their numbers, not because of what they do

[tender temple]

most of them are quite literally just direct upgrades because of their effects

its not only about stats

[frank sluice]

definitely not priority if that's what you wanna know

[tender temple]

some of them are just straight up more beneficial in most circumstances than the original effect

[peak jacinth]

name every example of this

[tender temple]

ok

[peak jacinth]

cuz I can only think of 2

[flint lark]

imagining a guy who skips polylute because he already has a ukulele 💀

[tender temple]

encrusted key, plasma shrimp, polylute, safer spaces, voidsent flame, weeping fungus

the others are a little more optional even if they are still really strong

[flint lark]

id argue against voidsent but mostly

[daring cloak]

Dont agree on voidsent

[peak jacinth]

plasma shrimp and polylute are not stronger than atg because of its effect

[simple coyote]

they’re each comparable to their void counterpart for different scenarios

[tender temple]

needletick just has a very boring side effect so id throw it in

[analog brook]

Don't forget singularity band 😡

[tender temple]

yes they are

[peak jacinth]

they’re only stronger because of their stats

[daring cloak]

What?

Theyre not stronger because of what they do theyre only stronger because of what they do

Like???

[peak jacinth]

if polylute did significantly less damage, it would be a sidegrade, same with polylute

[flint lark]

the plushie stone golem was arguing that the items need complete reworks and not a number change, so it makes sense in context

[analog brook]

plasma shrimp is almost 10x less damage but it's still better

[tender temple]

not really everyone would still take polylute

because the effect itself is just better than ukulele

[simple coyote]

plasma shrimp is better if you can activate it, if you’re getting hit enough you won’t have shield, don’t pick it up.
not sure about the comparison between plimp and atg for proc chains though

[peak jacinth]

the effect of an item is different to the potency of that effect????? wow big surprise there!!!

[tender temple]

the stats being overtuned only adds up to it

[flint lark]

100% chance to shoot 40% > 10% chance to shoot 300%

plasma is more damage

[peak jacinth]

plasma being significantly more damage than atg is really the only reason why it’s better

[analog brook]

Tbh i wasn't even considering the 10% wasn't thinking about the avarage lol my bad

[daring cloak]

This is undermining the effect of proc coefficient

[peak jacinth]

also you need to consider that its +1 stack so its actually 80%

[flint lark]

if you're going to stage 20 with crazy proc chains sure, if you're doing stage 6 mithrix on E8 like almost every hardcore player then you'll never keep atg/ukulele

[analog brook]

What?

[tender temple]

ukulele is just worse in every scenario

[sour shale]

Entry for the Survivor (Seeker). I fought the Scavenger, won, got the "Fate Unknown" ending. But the Survivor's log entry was still locked

[flint lark]

you cant compare 1atg to 1shrimp because shrimp corrupts ATG, so if you ever pick up both then you have 2 shrimp, not 1

[tender temple]

you have plenty of aoe and never enough damage

[peak jacinth]

you’ll always have 1 more stack of a void item than you will a normal item

[daring cloak]

Strange

[analog brook]

Oh right.

[frank sluice]

that's a Monsoon thing, were you on Monsoon?

[peak jacinth]

you have to compare 2 stacks to 1 which is why most void items aren’t sidegrades

[tender temple]

but you can also just pick up 1 plimp and only have 1 stack

[daring cloak]

Monsoon?

[analog brook]

I'm actually embarrassing myself I'm gonna leave myself out of this 😭

[peak jacinth]

the opposite is true for a few of survivors

[tender temple]

its not about survivors its about items

[frank sluice]

are Survivor logs not Monsoon
am i embarrassing myself and spreading misinformation on the internet

[flint lark]

yeah but then you have 0 ATGs, so you're comparing 1 item to no item, so 1 item wins again

[simple coyote]

and then there’s mando with neither

[daring cloak]

No youre thinking about eclipse

[simple coyote]

[tender temple]

there are plenty of ways to get aoe but damage is always needed

[sour shale]

Very helpful, y'all

[flint lark]

mando kills mithrix no items with a single grenade bro watch what you're saying

[simple coyote]

log entries should just be for winning, it should specify the parameters so double check the logbook for its condition see if you did anything wrong

[peak jacinth]

but if that damage wasn’t significant enough to counter the powerful proc chains uku supplies over polylute then it would be an actual decision

[tender temple]

it wouldnt cause then no one would pick it up and it would be a filler item

[daring cloak]

Logbooks are also for obliterating

[analog brook]

Polylute has better proc chains

[tender temple]

there is a very thin line between "balance" and "concept"

[analog brook]

(IMO)

[daring cloak]

Im not 100% sure but they should also unlock by doing amw

[sour shale]

I didn't open the pack, I ran to the edge. Maybe that's the problem 🫤

[tender temple]

if the item is conceptually strong it will be strong regardless, but if you make it weak then its not good conceptually which leads to it just being useless

[peak jacinth]

if there’s a low amount of damage it can deal to where you never pick it up and a high to where you always pick it up there must be a point in between where it’s a choice

[tender temple]

an actual sidegrade would be lens

[daring cloak]

What

[tender temple]

you have an effect that helps you throughout the game and you have the sidegrade that only helps you in specific situations

[peak jacinth]

u asking me?

I can explain better

[daring cloak]

No im asking how tf lost seers is a sidegrade of lens makers

[peak jacinth]

yea that’s what I thought

[tender temple]

it is one of the only void items where you actually make a decision

[ornate gust]

What is the meaning of a sidegrade

[peak jacinth]

I think your conception of void items is swayed by the fact that most of them are op in their current form

[flint lark]

sidegrade = it's not an always-take

[ornate gust]

So not really an upgrade, just kinda a different use case

[tender temple]

you do realise that if polylute or plimp were nerfed they would still be objectively better than the originals

[daring cloak]

The meaning is that youre given the choice between two things that are overall equally valuable

[tender temple]

its not just about the stats its about the concept primarily

[peak jacinth]

I think the ones that actually need reworks are:

[ornate gust]

Ah right okok

[tender temple]

polylute WILL be better than ukulele regardless of the situation because it provides a better and more desirable effect

[daring cloak]

Like you lose something that one option has but gain something just as good instead

[analog brook]

Isn't the best idea of a side grade in void items needletick and tri tip because you'll have to think of which are more benefitting to your character run and situation. It's not an always take or an always leave

[tender temple]

so is lens

[peak jacinth]

that can’t be true though! if they were nerfed to 10% total damage each then they would be objectively worse than the other items

[tender temple]

people underestimate the item because oooohh oohhh mithrix final boss ohhhh

[tender temple]

i would still take it over ukulele?

because its more desirable than the effect ukulele has?

[ornate gust]

So is there no reason to take ukelele if given the chance to pick up a polylute

[analog brook]

That one I can get behind but idk if I'd pick up shrimp I it was 10%

[peak jacinth]

so you’re saying even if polylute was at 1% total damage, you’d STILL take it over uku

[tender temple]

shrimps whole thing is that its more reliable but like if you nerf the damage then its worthless and stops working conceptually

[tender temple]

not really because the effect you just described does nothing

[flint lark]

the reason to take ukulele is that it gives you one more polylute

[tender temple]

exaggeration and an actual effect are different things

[ornate gust]

And his music was corrupted

[peak jacinth]

ok so then wouldn’t you agree that there must then be some damage point between 1% and 10% where you’d have to make a decision?

[tender temple]

every time i pick ukulele i think about how its more future polylute stacks

[analog brook]

Isn't in a way polylute vs uke and lens vs seers the opposite side of the same coin

[jaunty zinc]

lens vs seers is generally worse while polylute vs ukulele depends on the build

[peak jacinth]

not really, seers is much more niche than lute

[tender temple]

no because both 1% and 10% are not even close to being a good number

[jaunty zinc]

seers aren't a very good item unless you're looping

[tender temple]

i would still take 10% but that isnt good regardless

[peak jacinth]

so you’re saying that ukulele is so bad that you’d take a bad polylute over it

that’s just insane

[ornate gust]

Isnt the opposite of a must pick the void bands

[peak jacinth]

yea, it’s pretty much always worse

[tender temple]

its not bad its just objectively worse than the """sidegrade"""(its an upgrade)

[ornate gust]

They also make a very satisfying sound when they proc

[tender temple]

why would i want more aoe if i can get more damage

[peak jacinth]

the sentences you’re saying don’t make any sense

[tender temple]

i already have a couple of aoe items i dont need more

meanwhile more damage is more damage

the effect itself is just more desirable

[flint lark]

[jaunty zinc]

ukulele and polylute depend on your current build and i think a big part of understanding this game is knowing how an item does or doesn't contribute to your build and what it would do compared to your other items of the same purpose
uke will remain if you continue to need aoe beyond your gas / wisp / bands, polylute will remain if you want to further optimize your single target beyond atg / bands / headstompers / status effects

[flint lark]

nah just take polylute every time and your winrate goes up

[tender temple]

you never really need more aoe than other items provide you

a single gasoline provides enough aoe to make up for the loss of ukulele while polylute can cover most of your damage

[peak jacinth]

you’re saying that the effect of polylute is so much better than ukulele that you’d always take polylute no matter what,

but then also you said that you wouldn’t take polylute if it was at a super low damage

so then HOW is there not a point of how much damage polylute deals to where polylute is a choice

[tender temple]

because super low damage means nothing at all

[jaunty zinc]

while polylute does technically do "more damage" it also distributes said damage into one target which may weaken your build by stage 4-5 if you're struggling to keep up

[tender temple]

your point is "if the item did nothing would you take it?" no?

[peak jacinth]

no it’s not!!

[tender temple]

"1%" isnt an actual effect im sorry to shatter your worldview

[flint lark]

if you're struggling to keep up on stage 5 you need to build for mithrix on stage 6, and polylute is infinitely better against a boss (on top of being better normally)

[jaunty zinc]

speaking from my perspective of an e8 player i don't think a single gas can solve an entire aoe problem and you do definitely need more whether it's simply better target management or an extra item or two

[peak jacinth]

my point is that if there’s an upper and lower threshold of damage to where you’ll always and never take polylute then there must be some point in between where it’s a choice

[tender temple]

you do need more but as i said there are plenty of items that make up for it

[jaunty zinc]

a build can struggle on stage 5 and easily clear mithrix, that's not too uncommon at all especially with later stage 5s (50m+)

[frank sluice]

a single gas does give a shit ton of aoe though

[tender temple]

you never need ukulele on top of it when you could have more damage

[jaunty zinc]

a single gas helps a ton yea but sometimes it's not enough depending on what you're up against

[peak jacinth]

not to mention how heavily you’re underrating ukulele

[tender temple]

crazy but most of the time you would struggle on stage 5 is because you cant kill the elites in time

which is wow solved by having more damage

[jaunty zinc]

i think the problem here is that you're all trying to give a black and white answer to a game with tons of nuance

[frank sluice]

i'd argue it always helps tbh, if your target is tanky that's not a problem aoe itself can solve

[tender temple]

which is exactly why said items need reworks and not tweaks

[jaunty zinc]

what items do you believe need reworks?

[tender temple]

why bash your head against the wall trying to make a direct upgrade of an effect less of a direct upgrade when you could just come up with an effect that isnt a direct upgrade

[jaunty zinc]

i think uke is fine in its current state

[tender temple]

we were talking about void items primarily

as the majority of them are just better in most scenarios due to having more desirable effects

[jaunty zinc]

void items imo are all fine, most are equals to their counterpart or simply have a different use and are simply less niche because of it

[tender temple]

[peak jacinth]

it’s not really bashing your head against a wall, Id take a ukulele over a polylute if they did the same amount of damage, you wouldn’t. Each player is different

[jaunty zinc]

needletick comes to mind
bleed is about equal to needletick, but since less survivors focus heavily on a bleed build (whether it be a low amount of hits per second, or simply low proc coeff) needletick can become more desirable in most runs

[analog brook]

Needletick is one of the most balanced void items

[peak jacinth]

this is probably because you’re comparing each item at exactly 1 stack which you can’t do with void items

[tender temple]

one of the only*

[jaunty zinc]

fuel cell vs lysate is solely survivor preference

[tender temple]

yea cause the effects are completely different and do something you cant really get with anything else

[peak jacinth]

lysate is weird, amazing on some survivors, useless on others, and also dependent on build

[analog brook]

To be fair there's very little easy why you'd ever leave out safer spaces unless you're seeker (one character in the game) or crusted key. And for example there's not a reason to ever pick up something like void band

[tender temple]

while shit like uke/poly is like "another aoe item or another damage item?"

[peak jacinth]

if you’re rex you never take SS

[tender temple]

where is the sidegrade exactly

[jaunty zinc]

plimp vs atg has some of the most nuance when it comes to normal items vs void items but i believe it depends on the same factors of needletick vs bleed

[tender temple]

its more like do i want to have a better run or do i want to actively handicap myself by not picking it up

[jaunty zinc]

safer spaces is just a particularly busted item, I view it as more of an outlier within voids rather than a good example of a common "issue"

[peak jacinth]

plimp is significantly more damage, but you need to be sorta good at the game

[jaunty zinc]

it's kind of their fault for making the best defensive item in the entire game synergize with one of the best equipments in the entire game

when safer spaces bands and a few fuel cells can win your entire run that's a problem w/ vears more than anything

[jaunty zinc]

that can be a balancing factor

[peak jacinth]

it’s not a really good balancing factor though

[tender temple]

you dont really need to be good at the game to use plimp, even if you take damage you just need to wait like 10 seconds and plimp is back

[jaunty zinc]

7 seconds

[peak jacinth]

yea

[flint lark]

or print 10 warped echos to abuse the shield bug

[peak jacinth]

alternatively, transcend

[jaunty zinc]

i have echos blacklisted so

i won't comment on any sots items

[flint lark]

blacklisting bad items is a coward's way out

[tender temple]

why would i blacklist scrap

[peak jacinth]

I only blacklist good items

[jaunty zinc]

i have all sots items blacklisted, not just bad ones

[flint lark]

you said the same thing twice

[peak jacinth]

true

[jaunty zinc]

sots actively makes my experience worse so im going to remove as much of it as i can to imitate sotv

[tender temple]

big stretch but whatever

me when i can turn off the dlc 🤯

[jaunty zinc]

downpatching is too much effort when i can just blacklist

[flint lark]

click this button

[peak jacinth]

but then you can’t play on the maps

[jaunty zinc]

^

[tender temple]

ok but if you are being petty about sots then you dont get to play the maps

[jaunty zinc]

the maps have amazing credits and bosses so

[peak jacinth]

the actual good part of the dlc

[jaunty zinc]

having the new stage 1 is a no brainer

[flint lark]

the new stage 1 is like the worst thing about DLC stages

[jaunty zinc]

it has good credits

[flint lark]

we don't need five stage 1s

[peak jacinth]

both dlc’s suck and I’d rather buy Balatro twice more

[tender temple]

choose either being petty and playing without sots entirely or sucking it up and not being a baby about it

[flint lark]

less than siphoned

[jaunty zinc]

still good

[flint lark]

they should move it to stage 2 anyway

5 -> 3 -> 3 stage possibilities is weird

[tender temple]

just make it the stage 1 of alt path

move the rest up by 1

boom alt path has 1 more stage and you dont lack loot before fs anymore

[peak jacinth]

they should make it a stage 5

[jaunty zinc]

the new stage 5 is great, sadly i never see it

[flint lark]

they should make it an alternative to commencement. Mithrix is hiding in one of the houses

you gotta knock on each door instead of doing pillars

[jaunty zinc]

it feels so weird to play without a pillar skip

[peak jacinth]

you’d still have to charge it tho

[flint lark]

charge the doorbell

[peak jacinth]

the charge is a must have

[jaunty zinc]

having to do pillars is probably the biggest downside of the new dlc

[tender temple]

charge my halcyon shrines..

[peak jacinth]

wha

at least Halcyon shrines are a different type of charge

[tender temple]

and its actually rewarding

[peak jacinth]

yea

[tender temple]

NOT doing them is like not picking up behemoth

[peak jacinth]

why did we EVER complain about old commencement

[flint lark]

because of softlock island

[tender temple]

ill still take new commencement over old one

old one was just super lame

[peak jacinth]

let them get softlocked!!! fuck pillars!!

[flint lark]

old one was perfect for console players who are used to walking simulators like last of us

[tender temple]

pillars arent that bad they just take unnecessarily long to charge and theres nothing interesting happening

[analog brook]

It was boring as hell and if you had no speed items you insta lost no matter what as some characters

[tender temple]

somehow deep void signals are more fun just due to the erratic chaos happening around

while pillars are just zzz snoooore mimimimi

[analog brook]

I hate pillars but I think that adds more depth it the game by making pillar skips exists

[tender temple]

that too

[peak jacinth]

idk that’s not really the type of depth I want

[jaunty zinc]

i lowkey wanna remove pillars but ill just suck it up and wait for lunarapostles to come out

[flint lark]

when you enter stage 6 and see 0 beams above the blood pillars and four above where mass is

[tender temple]

mass is like the sole reason i hate pillars

[peak jacinth]

mass is so lazy lmaooo

[jaunty zinc]

mass is the only pillar where i have no fucking idea what it does

[tender temple]

every other pillar type is like okay fine but mass is such abysmal dogshit

[jaunty zinc]

and i just sit there charging

[peak jacinth]

it takes longer

[tender temple]

it does nothing it just lasts twice as long

[flint lark]

mass does literally nothing it just takes long to charge

[jaunty zinc]

oh that explains it HAHAHA

[tender temple]

its like 10 seconds blood 30 seconds design soul and 60 seconds mass

[flint lark]

having multiple blood pillars is basically like a pillar skip

[jaunty zinc]

i groan when i have to deal w/ soul without blower

[tender temple]

i dont know why they couldnt have made it so pillars are shorter due to the fact you have to move around the stage

[jaunty zinc]

blood is the worst for me

[flint lark]

blood takes 10 seconds it's literally the best

[jaunty zinc]

e8

[tender temple]

commencement is massive and i ALSO have to stay in a circle for a minute until i have to go across the map to stand in a different circle

[flint lark]

kid called a single RAP:

[analog brook]

The pillar that decharges like almost instantly when you're out of it so unfun especially with the E2 modifier

[jaunty zinc]

i meant moreso when i have to do it w/ a shield

[tender temple]

soul fucking sucks if it isnt on the roof

[jaunty zinc]

cuz i have to drain the shield and wait 7s

soul sucks so much

[flint lark]

then how does e8 matter

[jaunty zinc]

it takes forever

[flint lark]

one RAP prevents perma damage

[tender temple]

me when a single exploder blows up on me and i have to stand on the little pillar thing and a wisp spawns

[flint lark]

???

[analog brook]

????

[jaunty zinc]

i don't have raps every run

[flint lark]

shield doesnt make it take longer magically

honestly with the e5 healing nerf, shield is probably better, cause you just wait 7s instead of however long to heal

[analog brook]

Oh the soul pillars

[jaunty zinc]

yea kinda since the shield doesn't give you curse, but waiting for the regen is kind of why it takes forever

mostly just a nitpick

[flint lark]

big reason to pick one from an early shop or printer! and even if you get offered absolutely 0 raps in the whole run, i'd still rather do 2 blood 2 mass than 4 mass or whatever

[jaunty zinc]

true ig

i remember i had a run where the only way to prevent e8 dmg was opal

[peak jacinth]

rap is really good to get one

just for fire ticks

[jaunty zinc]

sometimes i just never see a rap & it's kinda annoying

[simple coyote]

would turrets inherit scrapped bead stats

[full apex]

I dont think they should, but im not sure

They don't inherit infusion stored hp

[simple coyote]

but I mean like

I don’t know if the prayer beads XP is tracked by a hidden item given to you (and turrets) or how it tracks just the extra stats

[full apex]

Its stored as a variable like infusion health, not as a hidden item

Im not at my pc rn but it shouldn't be too tough to test out, you could just place a turret, scrap the beads, and place the second. Their damage should be the same if no stats but will be different if one got stat ups

[simple coyote]

can’t really test it on console otherwise I would

[daring cloak]

Turrets dont inherit infusion gains of their predecessors right?

[full apex]

I was gonna say command but that disables printers haha. I guess you could still use it if you got 5 and went to the bazaar

[daring cloak]

I wonder if turrets are even able to get the bead storage buff

[full apex]

I dont think so
Or well
There's one way

Assuming they actually get the exp buffs, mithrix steal can trigger bead payout

[daring cloak]

Gotta know if turrets can get stronger with beads if their egos eat their beads

[full apex]

Oh! That should work too

The big question for me is whether or not they get the stored level buffs to scrap at all

[simple coyote]

I mean yes but they still have their own infusion.
there’s no prayer bead item to track when you scrap it for stats

[full apex]

Here's a peek from when I was messing with it last night

This is where it adds the stored stat in recalcstats

When you payout beads, the beadappliedX variables are increased and then in recalc stats like the screenshot are used

So its not like how they add health and damage to elite enemies using hidden items

[full apex]

alright, here ya go!

[simple coyote]

so it doesn’t(?) damn

[full apex]

correct

engi's damage got boosted but both turrets were doing the same

i forgot to test them with ego... but that would take a bit more effort to confirm they get the exp buffs

[burnt crypt]

is DoT affected by damage modifiers such as items, buffs and debuffs?

[full apex]

DoTs cant crit or proc, but damage boosting items like focus crystal do apply to DoTs as long as the conditions are met

[trim narwhal]

armor shred weaken death mark etc work too

[full apex]

for ex with focus crystal, if you bleed an enemy out of range, then walk in range, the damage will go up. and then back down when you leave

that applies to acrid too

the reason is because unlike stat items like hoof or syringe which happen in the stat calc method, damage boosting items are checked when damage is dealt instead. so they wont increase your base damage, but will boost your damage dealt

[brazen sluice]

hmmmm, i just thought of an idea. so theres already plenty of places in this game where you can make choices like "do i go through void fields for a free stage worth of loot?" or "do i spend the extra time to roll pots for a guarenteed 2 free bands?" and things like that. so what if there was a guarenteed cleansing pool in gilded coast? it would fix the longstanding solitude softlock and give a choice of "do i spend the resources to go to gilded coast to get pearls?"

like, would that be good or bad for balance and granting more decisions for the player to make?

[full apex]

you could pop a suggestion over in #ror2-feedback-and-ideas and see what people say in #ror2-feedback-discussion !

[brazen sluice]

ok ill do that. also question: every time i see other youtubers fight false son, they get this thing to pick one of 3 items in the soup room, yet ive never gotten one ever. why?

[daring cloak]

Only spawns when you collected all the geodes on the parkour below

[brazen sluice]

wait what? i was told all those do is cleanse your debufs

[daring cloak]

Thats their usual effect but clearing all the ones below spawns this thing

Imo its not really worth the risk though

[brazen sluice]

even if youve already gone up to the soup room?

[daring cloak]

If you can already zoom past the parkour

[daring cloak]

Idk

[trim narwhal]

yes u can go soup first then drop back down

it can be safer that way if you have a long range dps to trim them and then drop down

[quartz solar]

Does anyone know the director weight of the shrine of shaping?

[daring cloak]

50 credits

Oh wait weight

Yeah I dont know its weight

[quartz solar]

any idea how to find it in the source code? i decomplied it but i cant find director weights anywhere

[haughty tapir]

they also give barrier

[haughty tapir]

the barrier from the geodes typically cover any risk :/

[brazen sluice]

yea i know that part

[haughty tapir]

its like a quarter of your hp

[daring cloak]

Eh still

[haughty tapir]

also like, its not that risky

[daring cloak]

With unfortunate enemies it can still end deadly

[haughty tapir]

just grab em and go

[haughty tapir]

erm sounds like a skill iss-jk

i manage to full loot the dang stage lmao

[daring cloak]

A grovetender mauled me with its homing wisps when I tried that once

[haughty tapir]

its only somewhat risky

i havent died like 3 times doing soooo

trust

[haughty tapir]

kill it before it kills you

[daring cloak]

If you have to do the parkour theres no reason to not get all the geodes

But if you have a way to skip the parkour imo thats the better option

[haughty tapir]

ohh

well yeah ig but the path of the colossus can sometimes give so little items even when full looting

that the chance of getting like a red or even another white is worth

cuz also there are chest spawns

which is another 2 greens maybe even a red

[full apex]

idk if those are in the code, they are probably prefabs

you need to do a bit more work than just dnspy, i think unity explorer meyb

the weights will vary per stage, both for the individual interactables and the general categories.

[narrow lance]

I’m looking at the order of events for damage calc, and I noticed something - when stacking multiple sources of extra damage (e.g. watch+focus crystal), do you end up with (in this instance) 140% or 1.2*1.2=144%?

[full apex]

yes

stat changes like attack speed or movement speed are done in recalculatestats, and are added together. but damage items like focus crystal are resolved individually in order in takedamage, so they will multiply each other

[narrow lance]

Huh. Suddenly I have a lot more respect for delicate watches.

[steady stone]

there's a reason delicate watches are considered the strongest item in the game

or they were at one point. i'm not very up to date about this game

[full apex]

i dont think they are the strongest item in the game

[steady stone]

back before devotion they were considered insane i believe

personally i dont like this game having change so i havent filled myself in

but that's just my preference

it was just focus crystal but global i believe, and everyone know how good fcrystal was

[full apex]

they are alright, unconditional damage boost is good. but its the same bonus as focus crystal, which also isnt that hard to use well and doesnt have the risk of turning into junk while also limiting your options and ruining all other low health synergy items

[steady stone]

before the game got revived (the like year+ dead time) everybody was too much of a coward and ranged abuser to use focus tbh

lots of meta

[trim narwhal]

watches are really good on e8

[steady stone]

does the perma damage change the threshold?

[trim narwhal]

ye

conversely, elixirs become abysmal dogshit on e8

[steady stone]

lol

if they didnt proc before they sure aren't now

[full apex]

i think more dedicated players or more frequent can use focus crystal well

[trim narwhal]

permadmg lowers the threshold and lowers ur healing and then e5 past that

[steady stone]

i think the biggest problem was most regulars were switch players honestly

[full apex]

melee survivors + falloff make being close pretty benficial as is, as well as like tesla or razorwire or frelic etc

[steady stone]

but yeah focus is good, i wont deny

[full apex]

i think if you arent able to use frystal well you are at more risk of flat out losing teh watches which imo is much worse

[steady stone]

and it's not a "skill issue" it's really a hardware issue, with switch and those joycons

you need fast turning for efficient melee combat

[trim narwhal]

generally u can think of every item as multiplicative

not just between raw dmg

but dmg% items work on ur procs

[steady stone]

yeah, especially since it all multiplies once, most viewable in proc chains

[trim narwhal]

and procs work on ur procs too

[steady stone]

think of multiplication but ignore the order of operations for proc chains

[trim narwhal]

generally raw dmg%, compared to other items of its tier

its usually stronger than proc but like its all conditional

[steady stone]

there's the holy proc chain image (pinned in #ror2-discussion last time i checked)

[trim narwhal]

like ap rounds is boss only for instance

[trim narwhal]

so ye a sticky is only 1.09x on 1.0, but ap rounds is only 1.2x on boss so

procs also are conditional a bit due to coeff tho

[steady stone]

and then other multipliers multiply every single effect

[full apex]

this doesnt even capture the full power of proc chains propoerly

with that many proc chain items the depth and width are much stronger

[steady stone]

yeah it's the basics

i believe it was made originally for a new player

this is one path of many that could possibly happen

[full apex]

yea
cause the initial attack can proc any of all of those items, and each one can proc each of the others

even with just 3 the potential width is quite powerful

[trim narwhal]

proc chains are 'stronger' than multiplicative if its 1.0 coeff

[steady stone]

well eh
each proc has it's own proc chance right?

so the base proc chance only matters for the first proc

[trim narwhal]

to take an example, atg is expected 1.3x and charged perf is 1.5x

for 1.95x if multiplicative

[full apex]

like with atg uke meathook you can have:

atg
uke
meathook
meathook
uke
uke
atg
meathook
meathook
atg
meathook
uke
atg
atg
uke

[trim narwhal]

but proc chain calc for atg +perf would be 1 + 0.5x1.3 + 0.3x1.5

2.1x

[full apex]

i wrote a proc chain calculator

if you are curious to see certain combos avg or total possible combined damage

i havent updated it for the new proc chain items tho, im a bit intimidated because they are weird

[trim narwhal]

theyre base dmg

and yea cooldown and ticks and ??

[steady stone]

what was that one word used now? overflow?

[full apex]

boomer is base, but meteor is base and total. which is fine, but only one can be active at a time which complicates the calc quite a bit

[steady stone]

something about it in the new items

[trim narwhal]

just ignore that

[steady stone]

the entire thing about that reminds me of "you can't just say perchance"

like you cant just describe the entire indepth new proc overflow in one word and not elaborate

[full apex]

i could just assume 2 big + 4-6 small hits for boomer, its decently consistent if you aim good. but meteor is just more annoying, delay+aoe+ICD...

[trim narwhal]

huh actually atg uke is still slightly better than "multiplicative"

despite uke 0.2

[full apex]

what do you mean?

[trim narwhal]

1.6*1.3 = 2.08

[steady stone]

all one big hypothetical increase that statistically matters but wont realistically

0.3 would matter if it was perfect, but with varying effects and chance it would be virtually an unnoticable difference in game

[trim narwhal]

?

[full apex]

1 atg 1 uke

[steady stone]

statistically it's an increase in damage but because it's slightly bigger than just one delicate watch most people probably wont even notice any difference from multiplicative in actual gameplay with variations

[full apex]

add one meathook

[steady stone]

the fact that it's better than multiplicative, that is

[trim narwhal]

youll notice it much more if u have more procs

like yea meathook

[steady stone]

true, we've all had that moment where a boss randomly explodes for seemingly no reason

[trim narwhal]

2 proc items are 'worst case'

[steady stone]

:

lol

[trim narwhal]

in terms of proc chain vs dmg%

[full apex]

funny, heres 1 clover instead of meathook

[analog brook]

Out of curiosity because i never actually learned this, could a single hit do all of these proc chains? For example a full proc chain starting with uke, hook and atg all proccing into eachother but starting from one hit first?

[steady stone]

yeah i was just joking

[full apex]

meathook is awesome

[trim narwhal]

well not counting stickies

which are like

kinda more like crit glasses in disguise

[full apex]

yes, but good luck it would be pretty rare

[steady stone]

if there's enemies yeah, like a uke needs somewhere to go. The first hit procs atg, the atg procs uke, etc

the biggest problem would probably be having enough stuff to test it on and not explode, plus the number of them, plus having the procs go the right places.

[full apex]

yea one thing about max depth chains is just being so strong enemies cant take enough damage to let you get there lol

[steady stone]

like if the uke just kills the beetle it wont proc cherf which couldnt proc atg then

[analog brook]

Also is the calculator a website or an application?

[trim narwhal]

u could probably do it if u grief ur build

dont take dmg%, dont stack too much, get clovers

[full apex]

technically a website, i wrote it in JS for html5

[trim narwhal]

and youll see lots of atgs popping out

[steady stone]

it's like you have glass but you do even less damage

[analog brook]

Could I view it if I'm on mobile? 🥺

[full apex]

btw for fun, heres atg+uke+meathook with 1k clovers which should be enough to basically guarantee max depth on 1mil sims

it took forever to run lmao

[trim narwhal]

isnt it better to just have a formula

[steady stone]

sadly they were never heard from again after the 1000 clovers made an aspect drop, bricking the run

[trim narwhal]

instead of running sim

[full apex]

i dont think so, theres just way too many moving parts for it to be practical

[trim narwhal]

i mean itll be a long formula thats all

[full apex]

im not sure if it would work on mobile, it uses the console for the output

[steady stone]

that's assuming we're good at programming

i will make this formula 35 lines long

or more

[trim narwhal]

u could do it in a spreadsheet

[full apex]

its just prohibitively annoying to make, and be sure its correct

someone made a sheet, but even then its confusing to use

[steady stone]

probably. i'm just all self taught from youtube and forums so i dont really do much efficiency

[trim narwhal]

it would be annoying yea thats true

[full apex]

writing a sim that will just always do what the game will do is much easier, at least it was for me. there are a few issues as far as complications, like how many hits do you assume for merf

and in a spreadsheet thats even worse

[trim narwhal]

i made my own sheet to compare bandit m1s with atg vs plimp and not no other proc besides sticky and lutes

[steady stone]

it would probably be easier considering there would be, what, millions of outcomes? way more?

[trim narwhal]

since the other procs are rare

[full apex]

because its not realtime tho, runic meteor would be a bit complicated.

[steady stone]

also doesnt the chance change?

based on that one magic word or w/e

"overflow"

[full apex]

it would change but its no problem

its very consistent so i can calc it the same way the game does

when its going to proc it just check the incoming total damage for the chance

[steady stone]

it would probably add a lot more possibilities based off of when it procs and such though, bad for formulaic versions

like a cherf would add a lot of damage to the chance but not a uke

assuming you start off with base chance

im actually gonna go look into that magic gearbox stat on the wiki

[full apex]

magic gearbox?

[steady stone]

"overspill"

i didnt know what it was called

[full apex]

oh right

[steady stone]

im in the dark on the whole sots thing still

[full apex]

the keyword being there is a bit of a red herring, because the actual effects are just described in the text anyways

usually you dont use a keyword and then immediately explain the keyword, it defeats the purpose

[steady stone]

they even have the period inbetween lol

the first sentence for the description is just "overspill."

[full apex]

it also doesnt really work, it does not sound like it describes what it does to me

[trim narwhal]

in terms of efficacy, its better on commando than on loader that kind of item, but also it has a limit on meteor, so high attack speed u wont get 100 meteors so

[full apex]

incoming damage making something stronger is not over anything, theres nothing to go over. and its not spilling

[trim narwhal]

in terms of practical use, just take one if its an option

stacking it is pretty bad, 1st stack is good on like kinda everyone thanks to "overspill"

[full apex]

overspill sounds like you gain something for overkilling an enemy, spilling over their health

[steady stone]

that would be an interesting thing though, similar to desperado

but it would possibly get really op depending on how it's done

desperado can already be used like bandit primary

[lean lynx]

Desperado is basically bandits whole kit tbh

[steady stone]

it's the one ability i really do see as OP

[full apex]

i wonder
overspill could be something like 'overkill damage is stored and added to the next proc of the item'

that would be cool, unique, and make sense

[steady stone]

yeah, and would prevent big stacks of it, unless you killed a big group at once

[trim narwhal]

well if u overkill twic in a row, would overkill add onto the overkill

[full apex]

i would assume it would have an internal cap it would store up to. like maybe 2x or 3x its base output

[trim narwhal]

could u overspill on a bunch of pots and neg the dunestrider

that would be epic

[full apex]

so yea overkill overkill could stack up more but just not infinitely

[full apex]

a lot of effects are disabled for like pots and stuff, you could have it either way

[trim narwhal]

anyways i wish runic lens was total dmg

[full apex]

it is tho

[trim narwhal]

so then runic diablo would do a gorillion dmg

[lean lynx]

I wish runic lens threw diablos instead of the meteor

[trim narwhal]

oh and also uncapped

[full apex]

i think the damage could be uncapped

or the cap should scale with stacks

[trim narwhal]

uncapped current runic is 22000% base dmg off a diablo

but what if it was 22000% total dmg off diablo

and hit mithrix for 8800000% dmg

[full apex]

it would be a bit much aha, especially since the chance would be so high and the proc coeff of meteor itself is very high

[trim narwhal]

would be equal to 88 runalds

88 runalds with a proc coefficient 💪

and then time ur bands of course so after total runic procs off diablo

the runic procs atg that procs a perf that procs a band

just oneshot mithrix entire family tree

[dense nacelle]

Bro is cooking something devious

[steady stone]

this is most likely why only the meteor has overspill

also cherf proccing off of these? or atg?

another 4x would be insane

[full apex]

i think its the only thing with overspill because thats its special gimmick, like meathook pulling enemies

[steady stone]

that too

but i doubt they ever add something else with overspill if they continue adding content in the future

same with mods, although some poor modder surely will without knowing what they've unleashed

[full apex]

its basically just chance scaling up with damage, since the damage scaling with damage is just total damage lol

[trim narwhal]

cant wait for an item with underspill

[steady stone]

doesnt it increase chance too from damage?

meaning diablo is, what, guaranteed nuke with it?

[full apex]

honestly it could work

[trim narwhal]

no its capped

both the dmg and the chance

[full apex]

thats what i said yea, but its capped at 50% before proc coeff.

[trim narwhal]

diablo doesnt benefit much

[full apex]

i mean

going from 5% to 50% is quite a huge benefit

[steady stone]

diablo is consistency, and consistency is everything in a roguelike

[full apex]

the biggest meme with diablo would be proccing on something, not killing it, and still needing the damage lmao

[steady stone]

i'd much rather take a 50/50, especially since the reward increases too

[trim narwhal]

a band is like 40x better than a runic on diablo

[steady stone]

i mean hey, some builds against mithrix, notably without kjaros, could unironically use it

[steady stone]

both. both is good.

[trim narwhal]

guaranteed 100000-120000% vs 50% chance for 7500%

[steady stone]

also you could time a blast shower to proc band on meteor hypothetically right?

[full apex]

yes

or just get enough equip CDR and gesture to have 0 band cooldown

that was significantly funnier when void band was first introduced, because it could proc itself and ramp really hard lmao

[steady stone]

is the meteor delayed? or is it (almost) instant?

[full apex]

its delayed

[trim narwhal]

or tbh even atg would clear runic its just a gamble vs mithrix

[steady stone]

oh timing would be easy then

[trim narwhal]

but usually u can nuke a group and get an atg off of diablo

[steady stone]

the guaranteed stage 4 red though, it could save any captain run for mithrix using the diablo prefire before the fight

if you hit the 50/50 that is

what, 2-3 times?

i like those odds

[trim narwhal]

its ok its just like

i mean behemoth adds more etc

[steady stone]

true

i think railgunner might benefit the most then, since she shoots pretty fast too

[trim narwhal]

guaranteed 24000% vs 50% for 7500%

[steady stone]

and unlike atg it wont steal bands

not on a single beetle in the distance at least

[full apex]

the funny is proc coeff coming after chance cap

[steady stone]

oh what even is rg scope proc coeff?

i never play her but i'd assume it's 1.0?

[full apex]

yea

supercharge is 3 tho and cryocharge is 1.5

False Son slam is 3 too? i think its 1500%

[simple coyote]

shorm doesn’t seem to stack together across entities anymore?

[full apex]

so that would be 20%, final 60% which is funny

[trim narwhal]

if grounded yes 3.0

[full apex]

is that a change? or was it always like that

[steady stone]

i'd assume it was all a bug, so they probably patched it if that's true

[steady stone]

lemurian shipping spam was the first case of it being useful i believe

[analog brook]

I did a devotion run post sots and it worked the same

[steady stone]

but is almost definetely a bug

[analog brook]

I'm relatively sure it isn't patched out

[full apex]

it doesnt stack across all players because each player gets their own terminal

[steady stone]

the rarity stacks or something like that globally right?

[full apex]

does it?.

[steady stone]

hence why the lemurian spam always gave you so many reds

[full apex]

i thought it was individual

hmmm

[analog brook]

Way it works is that each instance of sr in the game adds to the global stacks + individual mult shop but they all have added up chances of high tier items

[steady stone]

either this or it gave each lem a stack of it per lem

[full apex]

oooooooooh

[steady stone]

yeah it's always better to spread shipments across the team

i remember hearing something about it a while ago in LFG

[analog brook]

I wonder if you could get sr from evolution... Probably blacklisted or it'd do nothing

[steady stone]

i hope they never blacklist heresy items

they are for mithrix, but they still work on evolution and vields right?

[trim narwhal]

enemies should get request forms and then only they should be able to open them every stage for another item for all of them

[steady stone]

but it stacks globally and every stage they get a new red, imagine lol

[simple coyote]

I’m asking cause I’m not getting reds from my hordes of about 12 elder lemurians

[steady stone]

the lem that had the request might have died

i believe that removes it

[simple coyote]

no they’re still dropping it’s just low rarity, not stacking as if I had 48 shorms for reds

[fallen galleon]

What are the big crabs moves I went to round 50 and got one shot

[full apex]

which big crab lol

[daring cloak]

Prolly devastators

[full apex]

https://riskofrain2.fandom.com/wiki/Void_Devastator?so=search

lists the moves, as well as the behavior behind them

[quasi crystal]

Which void monster has the best boom

[full apex]

define best lol

devastators size makes their imposing implosion quite impressive, but the scariest is probably jailers homing one since without movement speed you can just get fucked sometimes

voidling though is quite impressive

[quasi crystal]

Just your favorite

[full apex]

probably devastators, the deep boominess is quite satisfying

[analog brook]

Noooooo charmlie wrong wiki 🥺

https://riskofrain2.wiki.gg/wiki/Void_Devastator

[full apex]

i still just use the fandom because its what im used to and what i edit

i know where everything is and it comes up first when you google so

on pc its not really that bad, its only miserable on mobile because no ad blocker

[analog brook]

My phone can't even really load in Fandom pages.....

[quasi crystal]

Fandom likes to backspace on mobile if I pause their shitty videos

[jaunty herald]

Is lysate cell worth taking on seeker

[trim narwhal]

depends on build

[rapid current]

is there a good wait to chose the item u want with comando on console fast withouth taking dmg

[wise vigil]

Can more than one void seed spawn per level?

[rancid jewel]

can you get hermit crabs with kin and dissonance on the first stage?

[quasi crystal]

Yes n

[quasi crystal]

No

[worldly pebble]

Console eclipse run is not saving is there any fixes?

[vague acorn]

can bandit: sadist be dones with more than 20 stacks of hemmorage or nah

[ashen onyx]

how many fuel cells do I need to pillar skip with volcanic egg?

[quasi crystal]

Yeah I got a purity and lost seers and did that on the newt I killed him with like 83 stacks

[quasi crystal]

2 minimum you'll need to wait on the little tree area

[ashen onyx]

tyty

[crimson comet]

Technical thing here; when playing RoR2 you can't move the cursor out of the game window. This is annoying; I have a 2 monitor setup and I can't respond to discord calls while playing the game. Is there a setting in game or at least a mod that allows you to move your cursor out of the game screen?

[fiery fox]

wants the best railgunner loadout

whats*\

[vestal meadow]

Should I get Dio's Best Friend or Electric Boomerang on Engi?

[stuck flare]

So when my friend joins my lobby and we enter a game, he is always in spectator mode and can't do a thing
But when I join his lobby, we can play just fine, except I get lag on my end

Is that just one more of the bugs Risk of Rain 2 has or

[quasi crystal]

1112 imo

[full apex]

alt tab or pause menu are probably all, i dont think i know of a mod since its a bit of a niche issue since alt tab should work fine

[quasi crystal]

Late but it really depends on your items because both are good on him

[full apex]

also same but i use alt secondary sometimes its fun

alt util is pretty fun too but base is just so much cooler

[quasi crystal]

If I run alt secondary I take default special

[full apex]

i like the no downtime and its really easily to capitalize on the execute from freeze with alt secondary

[quasi crystal]

Really no idea why supercharge is the default it's much less versatile

[full apex]

its strooong

[quasi crystal]

It is strong

[full apex]

when you think of a railgun usually its like the PEWWWW and it absolutely is the most PEWWWW ability in the game haha

[quasi crystal]

Put it on Merc

[full apex]

also chipping in, i dont like dios but on engi it can be good. boomerang is a proc chain item though, and those are quite powerful so its probably the better option unless you are worried about dying to something dumb

[quasi crystal]

Puri is more fun than dios on engineer because you can start summoning crabs

Not relevant but something I want to tell you 7yphoid

[orchid vale]

dios is good on practically everyone but i do think classes like engi that dont start out with good survivability benefit more from it, but like charmlie said boomerang also has its benefits

if im not wrong boomerang hits are able to proc whatever other hit chance items you have (?)

[full apex]

my problem with dios is just that it does nothing ideally, most runs you can live without it, and having stronger synergies especially from good red items is pretty likely to help prevent scenarios that would kill you in the first place. if you take dios, and you end up dying, you are now down items and have no tools to not just die again. if you are behind in scaling, youll likely just die a second time. so it exists to prevent flukes which for a red item feels a bit meh

on engi, the benefit is that it works on turrets who, especially late game, will wander into death haha. if your turrets are being killed, giving them a second life almost acts like a 50% CDR on them since they get 2 lives per CD

[full apex]

also yea it is a proc chain item so it can proc your other item effects which is the main thing that makes it powerful

[orchid vale]

yeah thats a fair point. i think in any other scenario where you know you'll be doing fine it would be an okay choice

im surprised how much utility boomerang has because the base stats are quite honestly lackluster

[full apex]

yea especially with command mid-late its not a bad pick. if you dont need anything else its nice insurance

[full apex]

boomerang is funny because its like fucked description wise hahaha

[orchid vale]

it can also cause bleed if you have sawmerangs in your equip slot (?)

[full apex]

like if you just read the logbook stats, it looks terrible. but its really not that bad. its basically sawmerang, except instead of passing it 100% base damage, it passes 30%. thats where the 'deals 30%' comes from. sawmerang is 400% on the main hits and 140% on the small ones, so 30% of that means its hitting 120% up front, and 42% on the small hits. on medium enemies getting 3 pierces is not uncommon, but even if you just get two, it has an out and in so thats 120+42x2+120+42x2 which is 408% base damage. that is not 30% base damage hahaha

[orchid vale]

wow yeah that is deceptive

[full apex]

it also means that it has a 100% proc coeff on the main hit and 20% on each small hit, which is pretty solid. and because it pierces, it can hit more than one enemy at a time and on bosses getting 3+ pierces per direction can happen

the stun is kinda just a freebie, but late game when you have fast procs it can be funny to stunlock golems or something.

[full apex]

also yea this is the funniest bug to me, i dont fully understand it but for some reason when sawmerang is in your equip slot it does inherit the bleed on hit damage type which makes it even cooler, it can put out a pretty fair amount of bleed

maybe its intentional actually idk. feels like a bug

[orchid vale]

more than likely a bug because boomerang uses the same code as sawmerang considering both can get stuck on terrain

no idea how it inherits the passive bleed though

[full apex]

yea its kinda weird but not complaining! lol

getting it caught on terrain is super funny

but yea
i really have no idea what they were doing with the description on it, especially since runic meteor got an essay of text. the description for boomer* just isnt even close to the actual effect

[orchid vale]

i think if they just said "Hits upfront for 120% damage, and subsequent hits deal 40%" or something like that it wouldnt seem as bad

[full apex]

yea

sawmerang says

Throw three large saw blades that slice through enemies for 3x400% damage. Also deals an additional 3x100% damage per second while bleeding enemies. Can strike enemies again on the way back.

so like
idk

15% chance on hit to fire a boomerang for 120% damage that stuns enemies. Also deals an additional 42% damage per second while piercing enemies. Can strike enemies again on the way back.

i should update the wiki, it doesnt include any of this info about its actual damage output. its pretty important to know imo haha

maybe ill do that later.

[zinc terrace]

viable commando build??????

run it with needletick for bleed AND collapse 👻

anyway i know shaped glass does but does artifact of glass remove osp?

[trim narwhal]

ye

[full apex]

all sources of curse functionally behave the same. once you have <90% of your base hp, you have no OSP

so tonic afflictions or eclipse 8 can also remove OSP, if you get enough curse.

[frigid glen]

is infusion good w rex?

[full apex]

its fine, the healing on his specials are % max hp so more hp means they heal more.

the self damage is mostly % current, which means more max health will be more self damage when you have higher hp. it ends up kinda feeling similar to normal imo

like health ups on normal chars just make you harder to kill, and idk if his damage/healing mechanics really impact that toooooo much

[frigid glen]

alright thanks

i got a crazy run going rn so im just asking

[frigid glen]

which cauldrens show up at the moon? like which rarity and the costs?

[quasi crystal]

If you mean in general white green and red cauldrons show up

[ornate gust]

White ones are a chance to show up

[quasi crystal]

I've had no reds too so

[ornate gust]

Fr?

I thought green and reds were guaranteed

The more u know i spose

[frigid glen]

yeah i wanted to be sure since i had some green scrap

btw whats better 4 tri tip or 4 needletick?

well 5

[quasi crystal]

I feel like greens are or at least weighted so much that they're basically guaranteed

[full apex]

who are you playing?

[frigid glen]

rex

[full apex]

o right lol

[quasi crystal]

5 needle

[full apex]

probably tritip, REX has pretty decent proc rates

[frigid glen]

yeah cause im running death mark and idk if each stack of bleed applies

[quasi crystal]

Id say 5 needle still but

[frigid glen]

for dm

[full apex]

no both are just 1 unique debuff, either bleed or collapse

[frigid glen]

ah alright thanks

[full apex]

needletick would probably be fine though

[quasi crystal]

Bleed is probably better for mithrix though

[frigid glen]

yeah thats waht im going for since im stage 5 rn

[full apex]

im not really a fan, REX has enough burst that idk if tick would really be able to shine and on bosses bleed stacking is stonks

although theres an argument to be made for tick as it cares less about proc coeff, but idk

[frigid glen]

yeah it prob wont matter too much tho for my run

27 watches and all

[quasi crystal]

You can lose those watches with one mistake

[full apex]

oh damn lol. that does boost them tho so you could get some funny numbers

[frigid glen]

yeah but i think i got enough defence and distractions from drones

[vestal meadow]

I don't understand, everyone keeps saying Shaped Glass is OP to the point of trivializing your run, but every time I pick it up it just kills me faster 😦
I've never had a successful run with Shaped Glass. What am I doing wrong?

[frigid glen]

alright thanks g

[full apex]

best of luck! lol

[quasi crystal]

You need to avoid getting hit this is a serious answer

[full apex]

i do not really like glass, i havent heard anyone say its OP in a veeeeery long time

[vestal meadow]

Ah, so skill issue haha

[frigid glen]

higher dmg = less health = needed more defence half the time i never had a good run with shaped without good defence

[quasi crystal]

Dodging is the best defense

[full apex]

when it was first added curse did not disable OSP, so stacking a bunch of glass and having like 2 hp basically meant you printed OSP because your hp was so low everything triggered it and your regen almost immediately refilled it. coupled with nuking everything from having like 8x damage, it was insanely powerful

[quasi crystal]

Dodging
Damage reduction
Healing

[vestal meadow]

How to get good at dodging? Just play more?

[quasi crystal]

Playing more and getting mobility items like every drinks mochas feathers and head stompers

[full apex]

nowadays, its much riskier so the tradeoff it has as a lunar item is much more relevant and i dont think i would consider it something that makes runs more free just by picking it up, you have to be able to get away with the lower health or have some way to compensate for it. like if you are stacking transcendence, since that gives hp up which can help offset the decrease from glass

[quasi crystal]

Glass on false son is free

[vestal meadow]

But Shaped Glass removed one hit protection as well, so at a certain point you have zero leeway with dodging

[full apex]

i dont take glass, because i dont find it particularly fun

just dealing 2x damage is funny, but not funny enough to feel better than the disappointment when something random or unexpected just flat out kills you aha

thats me tho, other players may have different preferences

[vestal meadow]

It's true, I'd rather die in a "fair" way

[willow shoal]

Hey guys, is there any passionate person that could explain to me EVERYTHING, about EVERY characters in the game, i've really gotten sick of not knowing whats good and what not to pick/ what to scrap, and that would be cool to finally git gud

[vestal meadow]

Watch all the Woolie character guides on YouTube

[civic dome]

Wait is this an actual question and not bait

[full apex]

theres a LOOOT to learn about this game aha

going into depth on everything could easily be like an 8hr discussion or something haha

or at least a few hours 4 sure

tbh
if it wasnt 2:30 for me and i wasnt sleeeeepy i would probably have some stuff to share, but im thinking i should sleep soon so probably best not to start anything too big aha

[willow shoal]

wym bait bro, i just want knowledge

[willow shoal]

thats exactly what am lf

[vestal meadow]

Nobody is gonna walk you through it 1 on 1, do research on your own and find the towns of content and character guides that have been published in the internet

[full apex]

scrolling the wiki could be a pretty powerful idea

theres a lot of good info on there, though its not perfect in some cases.

[vestal meadow]

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvTL9oyjYeNgcW4KjsetVsvFTFfrsFeec&si=yqPHn2m0nz2t9TAZ

[willow shoal]

thats woolies vids?

[vestal meadow]

Ye

[willow shoal]

oh ok

mind talking a bit about it later?

[full apex]

i would take woolies stuff with a grain of salt, he has some kinda weird positions on stuff. but its not a bad starting point

[willow shoal]

mean after you slept

[full apex]

sure lol, i'll be awake tomorrow haha

[vestal meadow]

If you have specific questions feel free to ask in the discord

[willow shoal]

welp its already tomorrow here

so yeah, good night

[willow shoal]

yep ofc c:

[full apex]

yea. its late now (for me at least) but there are a few regulars in here who would be more than willing to share on stuff

theres also some good stuff pinned here

[willow shoal]

oooh

[willow shoal]

who would that be

[frigid glen]

is this rare? i found my first red cauldren on the moon

[willow shoal]

uh i've seen a lot there I don't think its that rare

[civic dome]

They're very common in the workshop on the moon

[frigid glen]

first one ive seen in a while wow

[willow shoal]

oh

[full apex]

faxmachine, maruke, and marta come to mind immediately as some folk who hang out in here somewhat frequently. also Aevean has been testing a bunch of stuff lately

i think those are some of the names i see more frequently on the answering end of things

[willow shoal]

oooh

aggressively dms

am watching op atm

so prolly later

[ornate gust]

Someone should make a 7 hour video documentary frfr

[frigid glen]

mithrix killed me on his third phase but the one item i gto from him was the larva so i revived and won i love ror2

[ornate gust]

Honestly experience teaches you the most, so even if someone were to explain every bit of whatever is in the game, youd still need to experience it yourself to understand whatever they are saying

[ornate gust]

Larva?

[frigid glen]

the dios teddy bear void varient

[ornate gust]

Ahhhhh

[frigid glen]

my best run ngl

super fun

[ornate gust]

Good stuff

[willow shoal]

worst item in the game

i would rather lose my run

then have all my items transform into them void variant

[ornate gust]

Most of the void variants are quite busted

[civic dome]

World first void item hater

[ornate gust]

And its an extra life

[willow shoal]

not that i hate them

[ornate gust]

The worst item is stone flux, but then false son came into existence

[willow shoal]

i just dont want all my items to get turned into void items

like, i dont want my tri tip to turn into the worst version of it

[ornate gust]

Id take that in exchange for having a second chance tbf

[willow shoal]

idk

[ornate gust]

Needletick isnt a downgrade

[willow shoal]

its a slowish

[ornate gust]

The only "downgrade" is like void bands

[willow shoal]

idk

[ornate gust]

It just hits the enemy after some time, kinda like a overloading ball

[willow shoal]

i told you i'm not good at the game

[ornate gust]

Yeah thats fine

[willow shoal]

i just dont like them much

[frigid glen]

best thing was that i died when my items were all gone then i got revived so i didnt void anything at all

[ornate gust]

Theres a lot of technicalities that someone else can teach u

[willow shoal]

like i just unlocked false son 😭

[willow shoal]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-wow-stunned-amazing-mad-cat-gif-9245830375664146503

[frigid glen]

literally perfect timing

[ornate gust]

But needletick vs tri tip is a preference choice i believe they do relatively the same damage

[civic dome]

Bleed is better for survivors with lots of onhit and collapse is better for slower attacking survivors that can't really sustain a bleed stack. Both work decently for onhit survivors tho

[frigid glen]

ones better with deathmark since enough tri tip can be a perma debuff if you can apply it fast enough

[civic dome]

Yeah def, they're pretty close

[willow shoal]

idk i like seeing thee bleed red dmg going on really quick

[civic dome]

Valid af

[ornate gust]

Collapse has given me trauma from void touched enemies anyway

[willow shoal]

i should watch the characters guide, because i dont feel comfy playing different characters

[ornate gust]

Go for it

[willow shoal]

like, bro i only play the bandit 😭

[ornate gust]

Thats fine

[civic dome]

Bandit is fun tho

[ornate gust]

I mainly play merc

[willow shoal]

YEAH

[ornate gust]

Before that I used to main bandit

[willow shoal]

i dont get the good part of em

he just like does not much dmg

[civic dome]

There's heaps of characters honestly so no issue if you don't know all of them

[ornate gust]

Who merc?

[willow shoal]

the sword guy right?

[ornate gust]

Yep

Mercenary

[willow shoal]

i wwanna know everything , so i can play any of them at any point and still get good results

[ornate gust]

He has a bit of a learning curve, cuz you need to kinda on guard and aggressive at the same time, but his movement makes up for it

[civic dome]

^^^^^

[ornate gust]

His damage really falters on single target enemies, but in groups he shreds

[ornate gust]

How many hours do u have

[willow shoal]

40 atm

[ornate gust]

Oh, you have a ways to go my friend, but yeah check out guides and stuff

[civic dome]

Learning cooldown juggling is what made me love merc. In a crowd there's always something to do.

[ornate gust]

I have 400 hours and i still dont know half of it

[willow shoal]

i wanna 100% the game

i wanna eat the 100% on steam

[civic dome]

Your enthusiasm is contagious lol, hell yeah. It's fun to.

[ornate gust]

Not to mention if you can get a group of enemies and expose all of em you get all your cooldowns refreshed and then u rinse repeat

[willow shoal]

:3

[civic dome]

God yes 😩

[ornate gust]

It shall be done my friend

[willow shoal]

i have the rarest achievement

c:<

[ornate gust]

False son yeah?

[willow shoal]

yah

[ornate gust]

Pretty good

Tho I will say the rarest achievement in terms of base game is captains smushed achievement

[willow shoal]

did it on drizzle + command...

[ornate gust]

I still dont have it

[ornate gust]

Lol thats fine