ror-wiki-discussion

[stuck saffron]

okay I'm sorry I might have mislead everyone with my faulty measurements lol

these make more sense I think

[void flume]

That might also be too large actually, measuring whole 32 blocks would probably be better

[spring storm]

also if we were truly pixel-locked movement i dont see how the games speed system of pixels/step would work because say loader moves at 2.4 pixels/step which is notably slower then commandos 2.6 pixels/step

[stuck saffron]

why do the increases go +28 / +24 / +28 / +24

[void flume]

It must be rounding, right?

[spring storm]

loaders movement in pixels/s would be 144, blocks/min would be 270, blocks/s would be 4.5, for reference

[stuck saffron]

but a 4 pixel difference every time?

[void flume]

radius math is weird, is my best guess

[spring storm]

good ol equation of
26-2(-1)^n

[stuck saffron]

also this is diameter, not radius

so 1m would be 128/2, right?

[spring storm]

maybe

[void flume]

So 1 meter is two grid tiles?

[spring storm]

not really

[void flume]

Bah, I hate numbers

[spring storm]

caustic climb says 1m=32px

[stuck saffron]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1125878727100862494.webp?size=48&name=trolldespair&quality=lossless

[spring storm]

no one stepped up and tested explorer's key still, would be funny if it gave another number

[void flume]

1 meter is simply longer horizontally than it is vertically

of course

[spring storm]

we also have no clue what a meter is judged by in the stat menu(main menu place), or the achievement to travel 6500meters

not the worst to test though

just some conversions ill see if thats viable to get a meter definition

[stuck saffron]

this stat?

[spring storm]

yeah

forgot it was not in km

[void flume]

I think if it matched barbed wire, it'd be 2 against 1, for 64 pixel meters VS 32 pixel meters

[stuck saffron]

maybe it starts as meters lol

[spring storm]

wonder what they defined a marathon as

[void flume]

Watch it be some completely arbitrary distance

[stuck saffron]

a marathon is 42.195km exactly

[spring storm]

that would be nice if they abided by that

[stuck saffron]

did either of you unlock Robo

and can you select him in the test trial

[spring storm]

now that i know its in an annoying huge unit i dont aspecially feel like deriviving that

robo works there

what about it

[stuck saffron]

cause it just occured to me I'll have to unlock him to test his skill dmg lmao

and EnDecc to get his gifs

[void flume]

Aye, I can do that, yeah

[stuck saffron]

ok cool cool

well, it's a problem for tomorrow

heading out for now, bye

[void flume]

Rando will be an interesting one for me, I'll need to figure out how to put down buyables where I want them

[spring storm]

robos values seem correct

[stuck saffron]

[
  "create",
  "Chest1",
  2130,
  1972
]```and adjust coordinates

huh someone did Drifter's skills section

[void flume]

I was thinking about a few interactables instead of just a chest, because it's deceptively useful for a lot of things

[spring storm]

robos utility is so weird with 100 extra uses of it and you hold the button while jumping it only registers the jump every other utility

[void flume]

A drone, and a slot shop are my initial ideas

[stuck saffron]

Chest1, Shop1, and Drone1Item I believe

[void flume]

I will definitely remember that for when I have to do it

[spring storm]

we already have drones stats, just need there damage % pretty much

[void flume]

Oh I meant for Rando gifs, and hacking multiple kinds of things

[spring storm]

maybe ill bother to get drones damage % now

[stuck saffron]

maybe someday I'll rework the drones page

[void flume]

max suddenly appears from the shadows

[spring storm]

oh yeah i also wanted attack rate which is a bit more annoying

counting frames is kinda cringe

[spring storm]

it looks like a dps meter is actually feasible

this sure is an interesting programming excercise

[spring storm]

i think i technically have a dps meter setup

its just bad right now

i need to setup actual sampling over time which sounds like a bit of thinking

i think i need an array system to make it not shit and that sounds like hell to implement, so ill prob just have it sample damage over a certain amount of time and it will be pretty bad

[spring storm]

it needs some work but not too bad

left is dps for gold attack drone with 1100 damage per shot, 1100/18800=0.0585 attack/s
right is dps for commando at 8 damage per shot, 8/36.34=0.22, expected was 0.2166 acording to the sheet at least

i need to sleep but here it is in all its unfinished glory

you need the drone(in right chest) to start the dps meter cuz im lazy

the golem that sits on the stat bar is actually my variable holder guy, my stack i guess

would be real cool to make a array system by spawning golems to hold variables

i really spendt 2 hours on this instead of my real coding project

this really shows that this is practically a programming language since i can do this bull shit

[old summit]

And here we were unsure about how much we could test originally

[granite flax]

pixels is the size measurement we should use, tiles per second is the speed measurement we should use

1 tile is 32 pixels

guess what day it is...

robomando is undeleted, the gates are open

make sure we get a spoiler tag at the top of the page!

[grave rose]

made the page but it has basically nothing other than the quest

[stuck saffron]

has anyone been to confirm what Drifter's Cleanup "special projectiles" effects are

the person who did Drifter's page wrote bleed and slow but I haven't been able to reproduce that

[quartz perch]

how do you use the custom trial btw i wanna try and do some testing

[spring storm]

add it to the main.trials, put test somewhere in trials_layout

[quartz perch]

lol

[grave rose]

providence is smarter because he knows how strong the cube is

[stuck saffron]

I'm currently editing and I have removed this bit lol

no fun allowed

[quartz perch]

you can move it to trivia...as a treat

[stuck saffron]

I wonder who this person is though, cause they have accurate data about the cube's HP so they probably lurk on here and got the custom trial stuff figured out as well? or they're a trooper and did manual testing

[stuck saffron]

alright as a lil treat

[spring storm]

oh attack drones dont attack at a constant speed

so thats why the numbers where weird

[spring storm]

since i dont know how dps meter math is meant to work i just displayed frames between damage and damage dealt to dummy on some of the meters, so i can eventually test all the attack rates of peoples, need to go for a couple hours now though

[stuck saffron]

should really make those .txt lol

but ty that's interesting

[spring storm]

prob, i just dont really use extensions for anything

sniper dps is around 30~% higher when you perfect reload, also i just learnt that the first box is perfect reload, i thought it was the 2nd

[old summit]

Man’s been out here missing the whole time

[spring storm]

artificers dps really is just crazy high, so funny how everyone hates her

[stuck saffron]

this is on the wiki

[quartz perch]

damn this is making me realize how easy it is to edit providence trial items

[spring storm]

cheating bad

[quartz perch]

yeah i wont actually use it for anything

because thats boring

it is funny tho

[stuck saffron]

oh yeah you could just spawn in with 20 glasses, wicked rings, etc.

but what's the point

[quartz perch]

on the other hand

[granite flax]

drone with 1 billion scarves

[spring storm]

hot rope has an overloading worm that spawns at like 2000 points or something

[quartz perch]

lol what

[spring storm]

the highest difficulty challenge

[stuck saffron]

poor robo doesn't have a portrait

[sinful storm]

have someone who is a good pixel putter make one

[void flume]

Just commission the original artist for like 800 bucks and get one made in perfect theme

[void flume]

@stuck saffron Using SkillLinks in ability infoboxes; Smart, or Sin?

*SLICE, even

[stuck saffron]

I don't see why not

[void flume]

Pilot's all uploaded, now

[spring storm]

theres some weird smoothing on robos gif for me

is it scalled correctly?

looks fine here https://riskofrainreturns.wiki.gg/wiki/File:RobomandoWalk.gif

[spring storm]

guilded missile drone launches 24 attacks that i had to count the timings of which go something like this 178/5/4/1/4/1/4/1/4/1/4/1/2/2/1/2/3/2/3/2/5/5/5/5 - mean: 10.208333

cool time @stuck saffron i got all the attack rate data for drones you should do the drones page sometime

https://www.desmos.com/calculator/ltmsq2gouk funny graph

missile drone is actually the only drone that it is optimal for dps to upgrade(to gold)

[stuck saffron]

well, if golding them improves their survivability that's a very good tradeoff I think right?

[stuck saffron]

maaaaybe

[void flume]

Artificer is now uploaded, too

Here's something for the notes, tectonic surge apparently does damage

a whole what, 100% base damage?

[spring storm]

backblast has less range when you have attack speed it seems

acrid has a bug where he just cant use his primary at high attack speeds it seems

merc also looses range with dash with attack speed

very silly stuff

[stuck saffron]

yeah, got that too but the number is so absurd lol

it was like 125 syringes

[stuck saffron]

oh nice will need to test this

[stuck saffron]

this and the merc stuff is weird

[spring storm]

i have had 600 of one item in a run(it was the enigma shard so it does not really count but whatever)

chef is also semi bugged

[stuck saffron]

with attack speed?

[spring storm]

he just holds his knife up until you let go

[stuck saffron]

I've seen Drifter getting locked in her special's animation with too much AS

[spring storm]

its very funny

[stuck saffron]

ah yeah I got that too

[stuck saffron]

tectonic surge is listed as 360% dmg on the google sheet

in green as well, which is weird

[void flume]

Geez, really? I didn't think hitting the dummies for 14s and 18s was that high from Arti's base damage

[stuck saffron]

yeah seems weird

anyway I always do some re-testing while reworking the skills sections so we'll see

[void flume]

Cool cool

[stuck saffron]

off-subject but the landing page on my laptop (smaller resolution) is a bit off lol

[void flume]

Oh, geez

lol what

[stuck saffron]

lmao it pulls from the item pool defined in the trial "code"

and you just have healing drones in there it seems

haha I didn't even think about doing that that's so funny

[void flume]

Never had a reason to tamper with that bit of code, until now

[spring storm]

attack timings for engie laser turret are neat 569/7/1/6/1 (/6/1/6/1...) - 116.8->3.5
it actually seems to take 9.5s to launch not 8s like game says

[stuck saffron]

that's a bit annoying for you though

I guess you'd have to add at least a like 10 items or something to not get repeats

[void flume]

this seems to have compiled fine

just commenting out that loot pool stuff

[stuck saffron]

oh I guess if you don't put anything then every item is available by default

nice

[spring storm]

pretty much everything besides like room_path and survivor is not needed

[stuck saffron]

more innacuracies?

[spring storm]

everything is an innacuracy

[mild parcel]

not sure if this question fits in here but are survivor idle images gonna be added? (and/or do you know where i could find them?)

[spring storm]

we got them already though?

[stuck saffron]

hmmm that's the walking sprites though, might not be what's needed

[mild parcel]

theyre walk gifs yeah

[stuck saffron]

might add them to the gallery at the bottom? but they'd be upscaled probably, otherwise they'd be too small to properly see

[void flume]

I believe it was thought about having standalone character sprites in the gallery

[mild parcel]

i think theyd be cool in the gallery yeah but i dont know wiki stuff

[stuck saffron]

if you want the original ones, a google drive with the spritesheets is available in the pins of this channel

[mild parcel]

oh neat, ty

[stuck saffron]

but would it be a problem if they're upscaled?

cause I'm assuming this is to create skins

might not be ideal

[mild parcel]

the reason i want them is cause i like recolouring stuff yeah

[stuck saffron]

just remembered I think I do have a zip file with every idle sprite hold on

someone asked me for this a while ago

now can I send this here

I can

should be everyone but Robo, original sizes

[mild parcel]

ty!

[stuck saffron]

np

[spring storm]

btw elbry you never put the elite stats up on the wiki here https://riskofrainreturns.wiki.gg/wiki/Enemies#Elites to add to your evergrowing list because im lazy

[stuck saffron]

lmao thx for reminding me 💀

I wanted to check how scaling impacted this as well

[void flume]

I hope this one hurts people

this totally works, by the way

Neat!

[stuck saffron]

yup you can spawn pretty much any game object this way!

[spring storm]

@stuck saffron how do you think i should notate the attack rate for stuff, for say engies turret i dont see nice room here, maybe in details?

[stuck saffron]

probably in the details for now yeah

or with another stat in the infobox

[spring storm]

what about for primary which actually does have space in top right, do you think i could just put it as CD?

[stuck saffron]

I think it would be a bit confusing

[spring storm]

sure could be

[elder egret]

https://tenor.com/view/risk-of-rain-obliterate-yourself-now-risk-of-rain-ltg-gif-24997259

[stuck saffron]

for reference, ror2 wiki does this

I'm enclined to agree with this approach

[spring storm]

every time i edit the wiki i think, i should just stick to the google sheet

precious pure data

[stuck saffron]

lmao

if you format the data nicely for me in the sheet I can do it later

[spring storm]

like i did these guys on the classes part with drones and turrets which are mostly understandable

ill prob finish up the missing data in 'damage calc' section

loader,chef,artificer,drifter,and robo

[stuck saffron]

can we convert those into attacks per second or does it get messy

[spring storm]

mean(indicated at end) / 60

[stuck saffron]

alright nice

[spring storm]

only one thats a bit weird is like engie laser turret because he has 2 means if you consider his start of attack placing it down or it start to fire

but that does not matter much

i just wanted to keep all my precious frame data

rocket drone and gold rocket drone will be cool to explain since there first explosion does 600% then the secondary explosions from said explosions deal 300%

then they can overlap and deal 900% damage in 1 frame

[stuck saffron]

I missed that somehow, it hurts seeing it

[stuck saffron]

damn, nice

there's something similar with drifter's scrap cube I think

[spring storm]

at least thats my running theory because it happens a bit weird for gold one

[stuck saffron]

cube thrown before touching the ground and cube affected by physics have different damage values, and if you throw the cube on top of an enemy it deals both instances of damage at almost the same time

[spring storm]

physic based damage? fun fun

[stuck saffron]

well by physics I mean drifter's attacks pretty much lol

[spring storm]

here is all the damage values in order for gold rocket drone 600/300/600/300/300/300/300/900/300/600/300/300/600/300/300/300/300/900/300/600/600/600/300/300, it was so fun to get that

[void flume]

damn

Can I even tweak with this? This is VITAL to my robomando gif plans

[stuck saffron]

selector chest?

oooh the random one

[void flume]

The-- yeah

sorta slot machiney

I wanted to try and make it only cycle with red items

[stuck saffron]

unfortunately I have no idea and I don't have the files at hand

oh that'd be fun

does it just cycle every item by default?

[void flume]

it seems to

[stuck saffron]

I think maybe, if you uncomment the "loot pool" part and only put rare stuff in there

it might work

[void flume]

interestingly, this seems to error out at the Mitt

"VoltaicMitt" is an unknown object

even the game is ignoring its existence

[stuck saffron]

these names don't always match up with the actual item name

like, tough times is "Teddy"

and Dio's is "Hippo"

I don't have UndertaleModTool on this computer to check 😭

gimme 10mins

[void flume]

See that's what I was thinking, but I scrolled up to Hot Rope Hop (huntress2) and it's right here

[stuck saffron]

might just be "Mitt" tbh

yeah there are two different names used in the files

it's a bit confusing

sometimes it's the item's name as defined in the lang file

and sometimes it's the actual game object's name

here you need the latter

[void flume]

Mitt is an error out too, unfortunately

Actually let me try lowercase just to be sure

Alright, still nothin

[stuck saffron]

downloading the tool to check

lmao

it's VoltMitt

[void flume]

So close, yet so far

Much obliged

I was trying "ShockGlove" and "ShockMitt"

[stuck saffron]

that second one was sooo close

[void flume]

Other thing I just tested now that VoltMitt compiled, the selector chest does not use smallChest for its loot pool

nor largeChest

it definitely seems like its pulling from its own pool

I tried to take the "VoltMitt" route and try selectChest, no dice

[stuck saffron]

yeah I'm not sure how to get this name tbh

but if you set common and uncommon to empty arrays it'll have to pull from rares

I'd imagine

[void flume]

The rough thing is I want the initial small chest I hack to always drop the mitt

"rouletteShop/Chest" are busts

[stuck saffron]

that's tough :/

maybe selector or something

[void flume]

"selector" on its own is also a bust, suppose i could try "roulette"

Nope, though I guess that was a longshot

[stuck saffron]

damn the treasure weight name for drifter's special is "drifterGift"

we'll never find the name for the selector chest 😭

[void flume]

selectorShop and selectShop are also writeoffs

adaptiveChest/Shop also out

this is now what I'm spending my time on

This is gonna bug me now until I know. I wonder if we could just like, ask Bizzo tomorrow or something.

[stuck saffron]

could try that yeah

might be better than fumbling around

[void flume]

not wanting to put it off until we figure out this mystery, robomando gifs have been uploaded. I can always make a new version with my joke later

Which means all survivors now have their dummy gifs

[old summit]

We’ve got a good amount of the names in the sheet if you need to grab things we’ve had before (on the naming conventions page)

Mitt isn’t on there yet so that could do with an update

[spring storm]

cant you know from sprites?

this guy? hes chest4

he works fine

[tawdry oasis]

uhhhh like. colossus? providence?

[void flume]

It's not spawning it that I couldn't figure out, it's changing it's loot pool weights like you can with small chests

[tame current]

Maybe a dumb idea but why not add the IDs for items and interactibles on the wiki?

[stuck saffron]

Remove it 🙂

[stuck saffron]

Maybe, but we have 2 different IDs for some reason

[stuck saffron]

Yeah I need to sit down and complete it at some point

[tame current]

so if I edit the stage files in a way that only one specific stage variant spawns and then pick up its log book will it give out the correct log or not?

[tawdry oasis]

fair enough

[stuck saffron]

No clue, haven't messed with stage files

But I don't see why not tbh

[tame current]

I see

might test it

cause I'm missing a few logs and they're stage 3/4 new variant ones so each time it's like a 1/12 chance I get it

[void flume]

Once we turn focus to filling out item pages, I can see a "Technical Details" section on each page being useful.

It could also be where we lay out the math of how an item works, in addition to internal IDs

[tawdry oasis]

shouldnt we add the navbox to every page

well every page that isnt the main page

[stuck saffron]

Maybe yeah! For now the math is just there on the page, like for hermit's scarf for instance

[tawdry oasis]

rn like half the pages dont have it

[stuck saffron]

Yeah but there are sooo many pages
If you see it missing somewhere please add it 🙂

I dunno if we have mass editing functionality

[tawdry oasis]

alr

eh ill go on with adding them manually for now ig

so true

also

this monsters and enemies part seems kinda redundant doesn't it

it's one and the same

the monsters link just redirects you to the enemies page

[stuck saffron]

I think someone did it like that at first and everyone copied it lol

[tawdry oasis]

damn

uhhh how do i fix this

OK i got it

that table wasnt closed properly

well thats awkward

[stuck saffron]

Yeah happens on smaller resolutions it seems, got the same on my laptop

Will fix when I have time

[tawdry oasis]

funny

[stuck saffron]

lmao these are all navboxes

I'm looking at the recent changes page and you went on a rampage

[tawdry oasis]

its all just navboxes

lmao

yea i left items for last

[stuck saffron]

oh wow you're really doing it

[tawdry oasis]

i dont think this is useful

i suggest we remove this and move the info to the stages page

or just remove it entire;y

[spring storm]

do we even know it has loot pool weights?

[tawdry oasis]

hi guys im writing from 13.8 bln BC

yeah this page. compress it and send it to the stages page imo

anyways @stuck saffron i think im fully done

[quartz perch]

minor thing thats been annoying me but shouldnt the "animation" part of the skills layout be called smth like "showcase" or "preview"

animation's technically correct but its not the best tag for it imo

[stuck saffron]

thx!

[stuck saffron]

yeah that's easy enough to change

named it without rly thinking too much about it

[granite flax]

i should be back properly and able to actually help again

thank u so much for doing so much elbry you are a god 😭

[stuck saffron]

no problem it's nice to help

[sinful storm]

should add me to the wiki since im cool like that

[stuck saffron]

do you mean like, a page about you 😭

[sinful storm]

perhaps

[spring storm]

oh, i thought this game rounded up at the end of all damage calculations

it seems that snipers primary does not

before applying bonus damage its rounded up

15*2.5=37.5
37.5*1.6=60
but it deals 61 damage
38*1.6=60.8

[stuck saffron]

Yeah everything is rounded up during calculations even

[spring storm]

trying to frame perfect reload snipers m1 to confirm attack speed is so cool(i suck at it)

[stuck saffron]

Oh yeah I forgot to test that

[spring storm]

its like 50 frames probably

i only got 51 so far

nm its 51

[stuck saffron]

Please no I like 50 it's a nice round number

[spring storm]

i got 50 and it was a non perfect sooooo

its 42 spamming non perfects

nearly got all attack rate timings for all survivors

then i need to get the 3 item drones stats i did not get

[spring storm]

attacking the dummy on the exact same frame with both front and back is so nice

only 2 sweet spot for that at no attack speed

[vivid laurel]

alright who did this
https://iili.io/JTCeZYl.png

that seems like a bit of a stretch

[stuck saffron]

Everything is an undertale reference

[vivid laurel]

they cannot SLANDER the boy like this

[stuck saffron]

It does seem like a big stretch though

[vivid laurel]

i thought it was a reference to his RoR2 skin'

since doesnt that make him white

[stuck saffron]

Isn't it a starstorm skin maybe?

[vivid laurel]

yeah below that theres another line that says it might be referencing that

but yeah no whoever put sans is coping lol

[spring storm]

thats been there for ages

[stuck saffron]

Well it's still nice to correct it

[spring storm]

this is a bit neat if no one seen it, pretty useless besides maybe the console but neat https://thunderstore.io/c/risk-of-rain-returns/p/Tomat/DebugOverlay/

[stuck saffron]

what info does this give?

[spring storm]

nothing really, if we could output to the console it could be potentially useful

prob not still but whatever

there is prob a way to make it more useful since it seems like debug overlay can be more useful then it is in that mod but idk how

[spring storm]

some mediocore tests of explorers key gets 1 meter at maybe 62pixels or something

👌

wasn't flat ground so maybe i forgot math or they forgot how circles work

[void flume]

Rounding up to 64 meters would be consistent with new Barbed Wire math, right?

[spring storm]

yeah but it might actually be 62 pixels

might just be 39 blocks of range or something

im too lazy to test it more

[granite flax]

meters are inconsistent, this is confirmed

use pixels as measurement for distance, and tiles per second (32 pixels) for speed

[spring storm]

ik its just funny to see how everything has a different def of 1 meter

@granite flax for the survivor wiki pages do you want them to be say for loader
1.28 tiles/second
instead of the
24 km/h

[void flume]

My concern with using new values on the wiki is there's no value tangible in-game to drive context from. The average person isn't looking at the individual pixel differences for their speed or range increases; they're looking at the stats they have access to in-game. which is km/h, in the case for characters.

[spring storm]

we give size of player hitbox(which is just visible width and height of char right?) in the character pages, then they get scale

better scale then km/h at least

[void flume]

I think that varies person to person. While Tiles-per-Second (TPS), which translates to 32 pixels per second is a solid basis to do math off of, it's not as easy to consume as something like km/h.

[spring storm]

idk about that one, when someone is walking id never measure them in km/h id measure them in m/s which is pretty much what tiles/second is

[void flume]

Measuring in meters per second would also work, sure

[spring storm]

tiles/second is pretty much that but we dont want to say meter because it has too many definitions

thats why tiles/second is prefered

[void flume]

I don't like tiles/second because then it's a competing measurement with range, instead of just being understood as "meters"

Say we accept 1 meter = 32 pixels, so measuring speed in meters/second is understandable. Then some items are wrong, but then we can correct those in post. We're not in anyway unfamiliar with correcting crapshoot numbers, after messing with survivors the past couple weeks.

[spring storm]

another proble with meters is people in real life are not 0.81meters tall

[granite flax]

tiles are more intuitive because meters arent real

[spring storm]

so peoples scale would be messed up

[granite flax]

do NOT do this. making our own definition of meter makes things far worse for everybody

we do not need another incorrect meter floating around

tiles are what the game is built with

[void flume]

It was hypothetical, for the record.

[granite flax]

i know, i was shooting it down

[spring storm]

it still does not make sense because your saying it should be used because people dont know what a tile is length wise when people see a meter they will think say loader is like 1.8 meters tall or something like that when he is 0.8 "meters" tall

[granite flax]

the in-depth nitty gritty explanations of tiles, pixels, and speed will all be on the "game mechanics" page

[void flume]

Which does not exist yet, which is why I'm opposed to gritty measurements of things that aren't explained yet.

[granite flax]

we have no method of measuring that the player will understand other than a constant (such as a sprite or an object) which is a horrible measuring system

we are not measuring the world in commandos

tiles may be an unfamiliar measurement system, but it takes a single explanation, and is constant, and is all over the world

the best reference for movement and scale is something the world is built from

[spring storm]

i think giving scale of players height would be the nicest way because you always look at it

[granite flax]

so do we change our measurement listing based on which page your on?

and again

measuring in commandos is incredibly silly

[spring storm]

no i mean scale by saying peoples heights as reference in the game mechanics page

thats what scale is, sometihng to be referenced

[granite flax]

oh, we can do that, too.

but that should not be our unit of measurement

saying "commando is 1.4 tiles tall" in the explanation is good
saying "this ledge is 0.8 commandos tall" is horrible

or, pixels

you understand my point anyway, i hope

like

we have to introduce a measurement system

we cannot use meters, as those are used (inconsistently) by the game, and would lead to far more confusion

we could use an object or sprite, but ideally it would be square (so width/height can use the same length as a unit of "1")

ideally, we'd use something the player will always be seeing

because then during the game they will have a direct reference of wiki-scale at all times

im not married to tiles specifically, if something else fits those criteria we can use that

im just married to the idea of readable and universal measurement system XD

and i feel like tiles are a pretty simple system to pick up

since, yknow. theyre everywhere all the time

[void flume]

If it has to be anything new, I could relent that Tiles would probably be the best option.

But measuring things in Pixels gives me a headache, because it's such a tiny fraction that I don't see the average person finding that comfortable at all

[granite flax]

pixels might be better for speed, tiles for size? depends how fast things usually are

[spring storm]

pixels/frame is fine, pixels/second is not

tiles/second is fine

we use tiles

[void flume]

It's a constant, but it's not digestible on larger scale like speed.

BG made a good idea, there.

[granite flax]

we can use tiles for both. unified systems rule

but if like a base speed is 0.23 tps, we should use pixels instead

[spring storm]

loader, the slowest character is 1.28 tps thats why i said what i said

but 0.04 pixels/s

there is really very little usecase for pixels as a measurement

[granite flax]

yeah, tps is way better then

um

i dont... think hes that slow

0.04 pixels/s??

[spring storm]

oh i did an oopsie

[granite flax]

thats like almost not moving

[spring storm]

4.5 tiles a second, 144 pixels/second

that makes more sense

i know math sometimes

[granite flax]

ok phew

yeah tiles just seems better, then

[void flume]

Yeah, agreed here.

[lyric moat]

I'm not sure where exactly to ask this, but I felt like the wiki people would be most informed. Does anybody know if Interstellar Desk Plant's description for the stacking section is meant to be yellow? In the lang.json file, it's typed at "<c_stsack>(+5 per stack) <y>seconds</c>.", but it's meant to be <c_stack>.

I'm guessing it's just human error while typing it, but I didn't know if it was possibly an inside bit with the devs or not, like with Ceremonial Dagger's "seaking".

[spring storm]

is ceremonial "seaking" a joke? there are like 60 incorrect descriptions in this game id lean to that over assuming joke tbh

[stuck saffron]

it was this way in ror1 as well

[stuck saffron]

not sure honestly, both are equally probable lol

[lyric moat]

Yeah, that's why I say it's a joke.

[stuck saffron]

honestly I think it was an error in ror1 but they kept it that way here as a lil reference

but for desk plant, no clue

[lyric moat]

True. It just seems very out of place. I realized something was wrong for a while but I was like "I can't tell what...", but after going to edit the Chef's Cook's items, I noticed it was trying to auto-complete for "c_stsack" and I was like "wtf".

[lyric moat]

I think that's the case too, which is why I'm not questioning it. I don't think Desk Plant was incorrect in RoR1 as well.

[stuck saffron]

oh I didn't see that bit

that's definitely an error then

otherwise it would just b <y> like the rest

[lyric moat]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

[stuck saffron]

so, what's the final verdict then? modify every measurement in km/h we have on the wiki?

[spring storm]

make game mechanics page explaining this, then change every measurement

[lyric moat]

It was a different description in RoR1, but it was still correct- kinda. The HP section wasn't highlighted in green.

[stuck saffron]

huh RoR1 didn't explain stacking?

[lyric moat]

It was a hellscape lol

I remember having to have the wiki open for a long time because the game never told you how it stacked. (I'm so happy it says now)

[stuck saffron]

I'm thinking of doing a template for terms that need explanations, like armor / shield etc.
it would make the word a link to the game mechanics page and provide a little tooltip with basic info when you hover over it

anyway, first are pilot and artificer's skills sections

[lyric moat]

I'm guessing that you all haven't finished adding it to all the pages, since it's not on Burning Witness & Arcane Blades yet, but it was on Red Whip & Paul's Goat Hoof. I think if my math is correct, it should be 6km/h for both Burning Witness & Arcane Blades?

[patent geode]

Okay, saw this in the sprite tab, WHERE is this beef cake in game

[stuck saffron]

yup, that's it

it's a % of 20km/h for some reason lol

[spring storm]

trials

[lyric moat]

Ok, cool. I'm gonna make adjustments on my own lang.json file.

[stuck saffron]

that's a big ball of trial points

[patent geode]

Ive done every trial through, and I recognize it, but ive never once seen one

[stuck saffron]

the only exception is Hunter's Harpoon, says 125% and gives 12.5km/h

[patent geode]

granted, I havent finished judgement

[stuck saffron]

it's not used in many trials tbh

[spring storm]

maybe its unused but it looks like trial points

[lyric moat]

Huh, strange. Speaking of Hunter's Harpoon, it only last for 20 seconds I think. But the in-game says 25. Is that right?

[patent geode]

its called "bonusscore 50"

[stuck saffron]

that's exactly right

have that in my notes on the google sheet

[lyric moat]

I'm glad I'm not going crazy lol

[stuck saffron]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SzZ7N4eyVctU1qqhQvI1P_FqlC2iJoMEzER9LFxjjxA/edit#gid=560289673 if you want to see

[spring storm]

beat me

[stuck saffron]

lol sorry bg

[stuck saffron]

yeah it's definitely one of those things you can grab for points in trials, but I don't know if this one is used

[lyric moat]

It nice to have that link for all the speed values, thank you!

[spring storm]

the bottom tabs also have a couple more stats for other things

[lyric moat]

Ouuuu

[stuck saffron]

yeah I spent a bit of time gathering that, thought I was going mad looking at the values

[patent geode]

Can we all just take a second and appreciate some of the artwork thats been done

[stuck saffron]

it does look incredible

[lyric moat]

Well, I can say that I definitely appreciate the effort you put into finding the info!

[stuck saffron]

ty, and it's still not done 💀

[lyric moat]

Oof

[spring storm]

how many more items are you going to test even

[stuck saffron]

well, easy answer is "all of them"

if there's a numerical value on the item

there's a chance it's wrong

[spring storm]

ig i could just count how many you tested

[stuck saffron]

there's still a lot to test lol

[spring storm]

why is misc items and damage items seperate

[stuck saffron]

I don't know, there was a tab for damage items so I made one for the rest

[spring storm]

interesting

[stuck saffron]

we need to finish testing equipments btw

[spring storm]

i guess i also do bad stuff for orgianization

[stuck saffron]

also I tried to figure out Umbrella's damage calc and gave up

the weakening effect is not a round number lol

[lyric moat]

Or, here's a weird one I haven't been able to figure out. Does Beating Embryo actually do anything with Gigantic Amethyst?

[stuck saffron]

I don't think so no

[lyric moat]

Shame. I felt like it probably didn't, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did something weird.

[spring storm]

oh yeah the ones it works weirdly on should be listed on the beating embryo page

there are a couple i feel like might not work

[stuck saffron]

beating embryo with gold plated bomb to waste 75% of your gold in one press of a button 💀

[spring storm]

my mouse is broken and i keep accidentally deleting stuff on the sheet and need to revert it

ima not notice one day and lose so much data

[patent geode]

Id imagine so, why wouldnt it?

[spring storm]

what would it do?

[lyric moat]

Actually, you're right. I just thought about it for a second. If you have multiple stacks of something, e.g. Backup Magizine, would it give back 2 stacks instead of just 1.

[spring storm]

ima test rn so we shall see

[patent geode]

give you a second cooldown refresh, like 2 engi turrets for example

[stuck saffron]

someone tested it and told me it doesn't work

[patent geode]

booo, but understandable

[lyric moat]

Well, then my idea on how it could work is a bust.

Buff Amethyst :^)

[patent geode]

does anyone know where the asset for the cursor / mouse is in the drive? id love to use it on my computer

[spring storm]

uhh ima put the beating embryo data in misc testing

[patent geode]

ive been scrolling the export sprite folder forever lol

[spring storm]

its still only 50%

[stuck saffron]

wait really

does the second bomb actually do damage then

[spring storm]

it sure did alot of damage

i think so

it killed the dummy at full hp so it had to have

[stuck saffron]

lmao

[spring storm]

gold bomb op

[lyric moat]

Since it's bothering me, I'm personally updating my Burning Witness description to be the correct colours in-game. Movement is meant to be blue, but it's not for some reason on Burning Witness. (Also words like "and" aren't supposed to be coloured, but it is on Burning Witness so I'm changing that too).

[stuck saffron]

yeah, I did that for some skills on the wiki

CHEF still has some oddities tho

[void flume]

Sceptor Engi turrets are one of the most egregorous, I think

[lyric moat]

Oh?

[void flume]

No coloration at all, states a 30 second expiration

[spring storm]

shadow man

[patent geode]

https://tenor.com/view/chad-walk-gif-26831766

[stuck saffron]

wait did I remove that from the skills on the wiki

[patent geode]

^ gotta make a shadow man commando meme, now

[stuck saffron]

ah no

gonna do it now lol

[lyric moat]

Classified Access Codes is like, half yellow :<

[patent geode]

okay, I got to the controllertypelogos... Hopoo is on that gourmet grind

[spring storm]

it seems like lost doll might not work

unless the description is meant to say 300% of max hp

[patent geode]

legitimate question, Ive poked in here before, and how are you lot doing the testing stuff? id love to sandbox and just goof off

[spring storm]

many of hours of coding

main.trials

[stuck saffron]

we're modifying the main.trials file in the data/trials folder

[patent geode]

hmm may be a bit out of my wheelhouse, but awesom to know (:

[spring storm]

@stuck saffron can you test lost dolls damage i think it might be 300% without embryo

[stuck saffron]

it's some weird JSON pseudo-code that's being used by the game to generate the trials maps, spawns, triggers, etc.

[stuck saffron]

it's a % of your max HP

[spring storm]

@stuck saffron its 13 mines <3

[stuck saffron]

WHAT THE FUCK

[spring storm]

yeah ik but with embryo is saying its 600% damage(max hp)

i knew youd like it

[stuck saffron]

I'm doing 400% lol

[spring storm]

huh

[stuck saffron]

20K dmg off 5K HP

[spring storm]

me when i have to count thwibs now

[stuck saffron]

lmaooo

[patent geode]

um... I have a question... WHY DOES THE SPRITE FOLDER HAVE AN ||ECLIPSE LOGO||

[plush stone]

O-O

[spring storm]

@stuck saffron meteor seems to deal damage based of max hp?

i confused

[stuck saffron]

yeah not sure why it's there but it's exciting

[stuck saffron]

damnit

[patent geode]

RIGHT?!?

[spring storm]

max hp as in dummys hp

[stuck saffron]

seems like second lost doll deals half dmg

10K to my 20K

[patent geode]

theres also a few for ||mystery ||difficulty

[spring storm]

embryo is so fun

[stuck saffron]

does beating embryo repeat the effect at 50% effectiveness?

[spring storm]

no

lost doll is special

drone equip seems to do nothing with embryo how weird

unless its an attack speed change

[stuck saffron]

you can only have one repair kit drone

and I imagine the buff doesn't stack

though ofc we would need to test to be sure

[spring storm]

i feel like this games random number generator sucks

[spring storm]

yeah id expect it to go 2x as long though

most do that

[stuck saffron]

seems to me it does % current health

like 10% current health or something

yeah I think that's it

it does 10% current health

[spring storm]

what a useless descriptor then

[stuck saffron]

can't even fathom how we got to this from the 220% description

[spring storm]

so much stronger then you would expect

[stuck saffron]

or maybe it does different damage to players

no it's the same

10% current health per hit

[spring storm]

@stuck saffron snow globe made so the lumerian could walk lol

[granite flax]

aye, this seems like the best course of action

[old summit]

Originally I just made a page to start getting the damage types written down of the items so that’s where it comes from

[granite flax]

work as it may be, km/h is kind of... nothing

[spring storm]

snow globe description seems to be wrong? with embryo it does 16s when id expect 14s

[stuck saffron]

this one is probably the most baffling yet

I wonder if the devs read this chat sometimes 👀

[old summit]

Which is why my lil rage at thallium is still in there

[stuck saffron]

because I haven't figured it out either

I even added "fuck this item"

or smth like that

[stuck saffron]

lemme test

[spring storm]

i like this rage the best

it really makes sense for it to be 7 mines since its the icon though

it does not make sense for it to be 13 mines with embryo

[old summit]

I love all our lil hated item rages

[stuck saffron]

but why does the description says 6 and why is it 13 with embryo

[stuck saffron]

it does seem to be 8 or 9 seconds rather than 7

[stuck saffron]

also yeah it resets their speed

I'd need to move the speed code to "onStep" instead of "onEnemyInit"

[stuck saffron]

8 or 8.5 I'm really not sure, don't know how you measure the times precisely

[spring storm]

when i measure times properly i use my frame counter over here

is so nice

he counts frames

[stuck saffron]

Parachute casually doing 200% damage, not mentioned anywhere in its description

ty game

[tawdry oasis]

are selector shop prices really actually the meta for number crunching

[stuck saffron]

yeah, you can set the price to anything

[tawdry oasis]

oh my fucking god

thats hilarious

[spring storm]

game does not let use turn a number to a string

so they do the heavy lifting

[stuck saffron]

so for instance we can get armor values, speed, HP, etc. displayed on there

and it does decimal values

[spring storm]

it does not show 0 or negitives but it does display Nan

(i divided by 0 by accident)

[stuck saffron]

never tried that, that's hilarious

[spring storm]

k col drone man equip does 40% attack speed with and without embryo

only 4 no effects

not that bad

[tawdry oasis]

im gonna have to try some things w it tommorrow then

[stuck saffron]

oh god pilot's pierce on his primary does not do full dmg

[spring storm]

we have that already

[stuck saffron]

no, pilot

[spring storm]

whoever did effects did a pretty good job

oh

[tawdry oasis]

are there even any correct descriptions at this point

[spring storm]

no

[stuck saffron]

I did a lot, and went back and retested everything for each skills section I reworked

[spring storm]

@stuck saffron do we have col drone man and green drone item drones object names

[stuck saffron]

so for instance I found out about point-blank's damage decrease 😢

50% decrease per pierced enemy

pilot mains crying rn

[stuck saffron]

yeah probably

what does col drone man look like

[spring storm]

chef mains reveling in that they have the only true pierce

[stuck saffron]

huntress, too

[spring storm]

oh yeah

[stuck saffron]

can you send me pictures of what the drones look like so I can find them by their sprites

rn I have Drone1B who has a little hard hat I think

so probably drone repair kit

and Drone2B has missiles and a gatling gun

they're very cute

[spring storm]

prob

[stuck saffron]

when discord isn't blurring them

yep thats Drone1B and Drone2B

wait does Arms Race actually add those missile launchers things on the side of drones

I never noticed

[spring storm]

what about equipment drone

[spring storm]

this guy

[stuck saffron]

DroneDisp

[spring storm]

me when i deleted my entire testing setup for drones

[spring storm]

they are so bulky how can you not

[patent geode]

Do the golem drones benefit from arms race?

[spring storm]

prob

[old summit]

And it clips into some of the drones if I recall correctly

[stuck saffron]

I play on *1 zoom 😭

[spring storm]

i do also

[patent geode]

1.45 here

[spring storm]

monster

[stuck saffron]

that reminds me I wanted to start taking screenshots of every little visual effects items add to your character

[plush stone]

No, I don’t think so

[stuck saffron]

but there's too many

[spring storm]

damn you really making me test that

[patent geode]

yessss

[plush stone]

Test it, I wanna know too

[spring storm]

guy without his rockets looks so silly

[stuck saffron]

pilot has a lot of red huh

[plush stone]

his bottom is kinda big lol

[spring storm]

...this guy doesn't normally pierce right?

[stuck saffron]

no clue

[spring storm]

wonder why he is when i spawn him unnaturally

no arms race

[stuck saffron]

kinda surprising, since he's a new character, I would expect him to have kinda accurate values

but then again, drifter and arti exist

[plush stone]

Uh yeah they don’t get mortars nor missiles

Make sense actually bc they’re rocks

[spring storm]

well its because he is new and they dont know what his stats should be

so they set description and forgor when balancing

[stuck saffron]

💀

[stuck saffron]

worth adding to arms race's page

[spring storm]

and drones page prob

[stuck saffron]

the elusive reworked drones page

[plush stone]

So you are telling me Pilot damage isn’t as much as the desc said?

[stuck saffron]

he has some values that are higher, some that are lower

[spring storm]

like 1/4th of all character descriptors are wrong

[stuck saffron]

and one value that isn't mentioned anywhere

[spring storm]

like artificer

didn'/t bother to mention the movement damage

[patent geode]

Movement damage?

[spring storm]

damage from movement skill

[patent geode]

I see

[stuck saffron]

weirdly it's the same thing with pilot

parachute does 200% dmg when used on the ground

[old summit]

Arti has a similar thing with the jump doesn’t she?

[spring storm]

thats what i said, just poorly

[old summit]

Ahhh

[patent geode]

my sprite page crashed after I got to G... rip

I just wanna find the cursor sprites (':

[stuck saffron]

wait can I use those on the wiki 🤔

could be fun when you hover over a link

[spring storm]

i really hate when things use custom cursors

like just why

[stuck saffron]

okay then I won't lmao

[spring storm]

i was complaining about the game but yeah

i like my cursor

[stuck saffron]

I don't know it's just a boring old cursor

when it's not obnoxious and fits the game's style I like it

[patent geode]

I

personally like custom game cursors

when a game doesnt have them and I see my own, default one, I frown

[stuck saffron]

yeah

[patent geode]

havent really found one I like across all titles though

[patent geode]

ty

I was gonna do something really goofy and like, make the cursor arti floating or something, but clicking on stuff would be a nuisance lol

[spring storm]

i decided to look back at the missile drones damage and it sure is weird 600/300/600/300/300/300/300/900/300/600/300/300/600/300/300/300/300/900/300/600/600/600/300/300
there are 3 rockets and the initial rocket always does 600% damage
secondary explosions are 300% damage
i feel like each rocket has a total of 10 explosions including the initial explosion

but when i count the doubles i get 10.66 which doesn't make sense

maybe i missed one and i have to retest it

[stuck saffron]

seems weird yeah :/

alright Pilot done

only Artificer left!

tomorrow is the day I am free

(except not really there's still a lot to do)

[spring storm]

me when between time(after image +scepter) "stacking twice" just adds 1 extra attack instead of 3

sure does look nice though(where all the ancient scepter gifs smh elbry)

[grizzled pasture]

nope

No KS-I slot

[patent geode]

you can also activate After-Image after teleporting to a stage, does nothing because it cant copy whats not there, but still odd

[swift plinth]

I gotta say, you've done a LOT of work, and I'm very grateful for it

[stuck saffron]

It's a lot but it's fun to figure things out about the game

[stuck saffron]

interesting, there are sprites for CHEF's unused ice skills

at least I think so, this is called ChefIce

[plush stone]

This confirmed that chef had a built in freezer

[stuck saffron]

there's also a... pizza cutter??

[plush stone]

I assume it’s probably re-used for HAN-D Dissemble

[stuck saffron]

holy shit flamethrower with 20 syringes is insane lol

alright arti done, all skills sections have been reworked

[spring storm]

@stuck saffron robomando page still needs some work(gallery)

now you just need to make a gif for all scepter specials

[stuck saffron]

I'm not making the gifs, that's @void flume, let's credit the right person

but I don't know if we need scepter gifs lol

[void flume]

Yeah, a lot of the scepter skills are just like, "more projectiles" or "attack more"

Sniper is literally just a slow

[plush stone]

Some scepter skills are kinda meh

[stuck saffron]

yeah it's a shame

[mighty escarp]

why are the images in gallery so compressed

[spring storm]

they are normally small

[tawdry oasis]

the images dont register for links 🥹

idk how to fix that but if any of yall find a fix for it im down to do another edit spree

[stuck saffron]

ah I think I can fix that

[mighty escarp]

maybe the images are too small

so just upscale em with nearest neighbour

[stuck saffron]

previously they were just overflowing out of the screen if your resolution was too small so this is already an improvement

[stuck saffron]

nah the images are fine, they're rendred at 180px width and then poorly scaled up when the layout changes

[mighty escarp]

yea they are too small!

[stuck saffron]

cause when they were first laid out this was the design the person who did it had in mind

[mighty escarp]

so it poorly scales it up to compensate for it being small

[stuck saffron]

what do you mean?

[tawdry oasis]

like usually when you embed a wiki link it pulls the navbox image for the embed

[stuck saffron]

oh, that

[tawdry oasis]

doesnt happen for rorr but i dont see any differences in the source formatting between rorr and ace combat wiki so idk what causes it not to work

[stuck saffron]

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:PageImages it's probably this, that's not enabled on the wiki

[tawdry oasis]

oh

damn gotcha

[stuck saffron]

should be good now

[mighty escarp]

👍

[spring storm]

@stuck saffron i feel like making a language pack with all the wiki findings so if you would post any new stuff you find that would be nice, ima start going through the wiki and stuff https://github.com/bgkillas/rorr_item_desc

ima also use "tiles" and "tiles/second" where applicable

that will be a bit weird but whatever

prob will also change the wiki as i go to tiles

@stuck saffron do you know how barbed wire stacks yet?

ranges you posted seem odd

[stuck saffron]

#ror-wiki-discussion message i got this when I last measured

the increases go +28 / +24 / +28 / +24

a bit weird

[void flume]

Working on adding another note to Randr's primary, part of me is unhappy with this wording though.

Maybe this is just a behavior that can't be explained without being pretty wordy, though

[patent geode]

Uhh, is Wicked Ring scaling in game and logs in game still the reduce cooldowns by 1 second + 1 second per stacked?

Wiki is saying the scaling is only 5% base crit + 10% crit stacked.. which I don't remember that being what it was in game logs and in game when used as so.

[spring storm]

yeah thats a weird way to put it, aspecially because he is still the fastest character while shooting compared to not shooting

[stuck saffron]

it's never been +1s per stack

[patent geode]

Uhh.. okay.. I'm pretty sure I remember seeing it that way in game logs.

Just checking though

[stuck saffron]

nope, you must be confusing it with something else

[void flume]

That's RoR 2013 behavior

[spiral moat]

"Robomando cannot strafe while using Single Fire, mimicking behaviour from Risk of Rain (2013)" would be as dense as I could make it

[high maple]

Maybe include mimicking typical behaviour from Risk of Rain? But that would most likely be unnecessary

[spring storm]

could be in trivia

[void flume]

Considering making a Template:Difficulty option, to at least get the difficulty images on the site.

Could also get the currently unused Eclipse icons implemented in there, what's the read on that?

If anything just for documentation, but who knows, maybe they'll turn out useful later on.

[grave rose]

an artifact template would be nice too

[stuck saffron]

Yeah you can base it on the Elite template

Should work nicely

[stuck saffron]

I can do that yeah

[void flume]

I've not even finished writing the new template, and Eclipse already doesn't look like a word anymore

Alright, that's all good and set up, now.

I stuck them in Difficulty itself, and the Robomando page. Those are the only ones I knew for sure mentioned difficulties by name.

[grave rose]

strange battery, items and temple for robomando; scepter, mercenary, items and challenges for the scepter unlock; enemies and imp shrine for the blighted elites; mocha for a trivia fact and apparently an individual challenge page

[stuck saffron]

nice, looks good

[grave rose]

just changed basically every mention of difficulty on the wiki

should we just kill the imp overlord shrine page or keep it with like 2 sentences of actually correct information?

[stuck saffron]

yeah it's really bad rn

I guess only basic info should be kept - takes 50% of your health, spawns imp overlords, drop 2 red items

appears post-loop also, which I think is accurate

[grave rose]

on it

[stuck saffron]

Nice, thank you

after undertale, we have minecraft

[void flume]

Arguably more likely, though

though sans was a low bar

[stuck saffron]

they do look a bit like fortresses

[tawdry oasis]

LOL

the uhhhh

the teleporters might be a reference to the Rift from Fortnite

okay one thing im gonna say is that the drones page is extremely lackluster

aka it lacks any mention of secondary and tertiary drones

[stuck saffron]

I KNOOOOW

[tawdry oasis]

oh

woops

[stuck saffron]

it's on my to-do list

[tawdry oasis]

my bad then and gl

[stuck saffron]

dw you're not the only one asking about it

[void flume]

what is this crunchy lookin' image for

[vale bramble]

small image for small bobot

[stuck saffron]

it's not even used anywhere I think

[spring storm]

?

oh thats different

weird

doesn't robomando have an unused judgement skin that should be listed, like pilots unused skin

[analog thunder]

wait where's my man hidden on the wiki

do you just have to search for him specifically?

[spring storm]

just search rn

[stuck saffron]

I'll need to figure out a neat way to have him hidden on the survivors page

[patent geode]

congrats, you guys got the top spot now, it use to be the annoying fandom wiki as #1 result -

[analog thunder]

put a Drizzle icon next to Drifter on the bottom part of the Survivors page with the characters and make that a hyperlink to him

after all, EASYDOESIT

[vale bramble]

i just type "ri" in the url bar and it autofills at this point lol

[stuck saffron]

same tbh

[vale bramble]

"r" gives me reddit sadly

[stuck saffron]

@spring storm writing here to not flood the bug report thread, but is that arti flamethrower thing right?

didn't even notice

[spring storm]

@stuck saffron i confirmed it

[stuck saffron]

huh, gonna need to update the wiki then

[spring storm]

@stuck saffron fire also procs 12 times if you feel like adding that

idk if incinerator is different

[stuck saffron]

well it's one stack of burn per tick of damage which makes sense

for arti we also have Flamethrower scepter's skill which says 30% damage over time, but it's still 20%

[stuck saffron]

do you know if the scepter skill does 12 as well or does it get bumped up to 14?

[spring storm]

ill check ig

[stuck saffron]

also, attack speed gives you more hits

[spring storm]

its prob 14 but i need a better test i need to eat

[swift plinth]

Oh frost barrier doesn't use the per player damage multiplier
That makes sense

@stuck saffron do flame chakrams actually deal damage at their peak? I thought they only inflicted the burn effect. Wiki also doesn't seem to list the burn duration (6 ticks at 10%)

Which differs from the duration of flamethrower's burn (12 ticks I believe)

[placid salmon]

why does the providence trials map on the wiki have randomly crowned trials

[graceful sun]

clearly, they'

re the trials that are canon to the lore

||/j||

[placid salmon]

points at Go On Without Me not being crowned despite obviously being canon

[void flume]

Was a placeholder image, though no one's gone back to make it any different, it seems

[placid salmon]

sad

also, the Umbrella page could definitely use some clarity on how tf this item actually stacks

no numbers, sad

[elder egret]

From what I can tell, its next stack seems to be 66% of the previous stack. I may be wrong though.

[grave rose]

idk what the deal with the challenges section on the enemies page is but I made it a table and added most achievements that involve specific enemies

[stuck saffron]

I'm fairly sure they do, even says so in the description, but feels free to verify

[stuck saffron]

Tried to figure it out but it seems complex, I think Gummy asked devs and they said it's complicated

[stuck saffron]

Someone added it and I reworded it

[swift plinth]

Old clip, but I think it's fairly clear that damage is coming from burn alone

[stuck saffron]

Cause it was bad

Might just delete it tbh

[stuck saffron]

Is this before or after the patch

[swift plinth]

After

Before there were no yellow damage numbers

[stuck saffron]

Ok might have been wrong then 🤔

[placid salmon]

yeah it really looks like the chakram has one single hit, and then the rest of its damage is just that it sets things on fire within its aoe

[spiral moat]

Would all gold scores trials map be more or less good?

dropping this here if anyone wishes to use it

[grave rose]

looks good

[stuck saffron]

is it the same size as the old one

otherwise the clickable image won't work properly

there's a 3px difference

[spring storm]

its very difficult to derive equations from nothing, we prob will just wait until we have code

is the audio files on the google drive all the audio files in the game? i cant find the blighted worm audio file

[stuck saffron]

it might be the regular worm sounds with some effects on top added via code

[grave rose]

not sure how to format the enemy spawns in judgement

a table could work but would also look a bit sketchy

ig a list wouldn't be that bad?

[stuck saffron]

I guess yeah

not sure how to present the info tbh

[spring storm]

ig this was useful for something, seems to be just wdifficulty modified or something

[grave rose]

what are the names of the stage 10 umbras? I only remember that the sniper/engineer one is umbra of fear

[spring storm]

"oUmbraA.name" : "Umbral Scourge",
"oUmbraB.name" : "Umbral Calculation",
"oUmbraC.name" : "Umbral Rage",
"oUmbraD.name" : "Umbral Fear",

[stuck saffron]

oh you meant the bells? yeah it's obviously that

[grave rose]

Judgement page is done

I think the umbras only have 2 abilities each but that might be wrong

[swift plinth]

It sets a thing on fire. The chakrams pierce like Chef's DICE, but each burn hit affects only a single target

Not a true AoE

[stuck saffron]

nice work!

[vale bramble]

just read the wiki, i didnt even know about the two seperate hitboxes on short circuit, seems like the outer one is 90 frames of stun the inner one is 225. i dunno if yall plan on getting that in depth on the wiki to be listing frame values tho lol

[stuck saffron]

I don't think so, frame values don't mean anything to most people reading the wiki

but glad the info that's there is of use

[vale bramble]

true. could convert it to seconds of course but even then thats a lot of work for largely inconsequential details

[stuck saffron]

for now I just listed that the stun duration depends on how close to the point of impact the enemies are

[vale bramble]

yeah thats probly the most succinct way to put it

[stuck saffron]

now I'm wondering what "hidden" stuns I missed because I'm using a Dummy

😢

[vale bramble]

oh did you not know about mando knife? or was it something else that tipped u off

[stuck saffron]

didn't know about the knife yeah

guess I didn't look too closely when I played him

[vale bramble]

yeah i noticed it always staggered. or i thought it was stagger, assumed they just hard coded it to always do the hp threshhold stagger thing but then dee mentioned the stars and i put two and two together

or maybe someone mentioned it specifically i forget. nice its there though, makes it less risky to use

[stuck saffron]

hey @swift plinth, wanted your input on something
about items and skills that say "+x% damage from all sources"
"all sources" is not accurate, right? it's +x% damage from skills only?

[swift plinth]

Which items say all sources?

Toxin I assume?

[stuck saffron]

yup

also umbrella

for skills it's acrid alt primary and commando's knife

don't know if golden gun counts, also

it's kinda the same thing

[swift plinth]

I know Toxin and Golden Gun work with proc-capable damage sources, and I believe they don't work with non-proc-capable damage like CHEF's Dice (after the first hit).

Acrid's alt primary should be the same story, but Commando's Knife is special.

I still think Wound requires the triggering damage to be proc-capable, though

I need a better word for that distinction

[stuck saffron]

and no item damage can trigger on-hit effects, right?

[swift plinth]

Fire Shield

[stuck saffron]

fuck

[swift plinth]

And I think a couple others you tested?

Or that somebody did

I never looked into it myself

[stuck saffron]

I tested fire shield but I forgot lol

alright nice thank you

I think we need a "Damage" page

[swift plinth]

Seeing that Poison could crit has me triple guessing anything I concluded, too

[stuck saffron]

I think maybe poison is TOTAL damage?

then the "crit" would make sense

[swift plinth]

TOTAL of what, though

There isn't any triggering damage to be TOTAL of

[stuck saffron]

ah I was thinking of the primary

[swift plinth]

You said the sludge can crit, yeah?

[stuck saffron]

yeah