Why aren't you playing? old version

[halcyon lily]

To put it lightly (and constructively), to me the update was very underwhelming.
I've written a Steam review that goes into more detail but not only is it extremely long, there's a pretty passive aggressive and non-constructive vibe to it, mainly because I was so disappointed.
There's a lot of factors, but here's a few:

Timegated quests. Those two words alone. (Honest and less snarky explanation: It feels like those were added to artificially pad out the story. Like, it's very obvious that's most likely the case. "Promoting healthy gaming" doesn't work here when there's a very controversial quest that promotes unhealthy grinding mechanics (See: https://discord.com/channels/413200888010637313/1449576898504953947).

The socializing aspect doesn't really work out for me either. I play the game to get in, do whatever I need to do, then leave. I don't want to talk to others, especially since I've seen a lot of very explicit and uncomfortable conversations. I'm aware these are reportable, but these instances occur way too much for me to properly keep track of.
For me, this took out a lot of enjoyment I had for the game. There's quests that require party participation and frankly I'm not a huge fan of such.

Lack of things being added to the main modes at launch really bummed me out. I didn't expect a complete overhaul of any of the modes, but I expected at least some noticeable changes. (I know they are planning to work on the modes in the future, but will I still be playing to see those changes? Very unlikely).

I have a lot of other minor nitpicks but to be honest, I'm unsure how to express them without any snarkiness sneaking through.

(whoops, pressed enter early, will edit)

[drifting fox]

I believe:

• SAW failed to address repetitiveness in the game (adding respawn tanks, new mechanics every update does not decrease repetitiveness, core gameplay remains the same)
• Lack of developer communication -> uncertainty about what updates will come next -> low player confidence in the game
• Low streamability of the game affects player count: caused by lack of "surprise"/unpredictability in the game - who wants to watch something where it's the same all the time? I mean, what is there even for content creators to react to in the game? Any moments that are like "can't believe SAR did this"?
• Game might be overdesigned: Game mechanics are designed too well that they fence players into one way of playing. Instead, I think features should be released as prototypes and allowing the playerbase to polish it through feedback. Affects streamability as well. Players need to be in the loop, game needs to be developed based on feedback instead of what the devs want
• Release cycle: Not fast enough to keep players on the hype train, SAW should have been released as many small updates rather than one big update - feels like it got overscoped and they ended up having to rush to get it released

• I know this is not done because the team is small, but a lot of players will be asking "where's the new modes? where's the new maps?" They'll have to address those at some point

[halcyon lily]

I've also noticed a lot of negative reviews popping up ever since the update dropped too, I would recommend taking a look at those if you also want a general idea of what people don't like. There's some pretty good answers up there.

[vale mason]

many people don't even bother to write review on steam, on discord or otherwise, hence my idea to ask directly, maybe some people will speak up easier

but yeah I noticed the negative reviews ofc

[halcyon lily]

That's fair! I'm a fan of threads like these because they allow direct critique of the game itself, not just mechanics.

Would like to note in advance that my intentions aren't to dunk on the game, of course. I'm mainly this critical because I want to see improvements in a game I've been playing for a while now. I want to see SAR thrive. Therefore my takes may be a bit more honest than most.

[drifting fox]

IMO one problem is the game is what the devs want from a game rather than what the players want from the game

[halcyon lily]

^^^
This, all the way.

[soft needle]

Adding new mechanics can breathe new life into the familiar - I think that you hit the nail on the head with your last point that the game might have been overscoped.

With benefit of hindsight one could have had a situation where an optional untimed lobby keeping track of upcoming modes to join could have existed - with a big 'work in progress' sign in the welcome center.

Then build in MTN stations with only the fast travel option for easier traversal.

Then maybe a certain sloth for some spice.

Then maybe Questless NPCs.

Hamsterball racing could have been its own update, and could have been a trial for the quests system.

Again... hindsight... as it's kind of like talking about a precarious Jenga tower and saying that it would be easier if previous moves were done differently. Easier said after the fact.

I am fairly sure that Pixile always wanted SAW - even before I started harping on about LSAW (SAR had to start from somewhere - and a glance at the game's development over the years, from the map to the mechanics to the modes to the species, and more, makes this easier to appreciate).

I hadn't realized that there were negative reviews rolling in. That is unfortunate, but also an opportunity to figure out what is causing friction and why.

I do believe that there is good potential for the game, moving forward, and that the rough edges can be smoothed - and pointing out that the game was made to the devs' vision doesn't change this.

It certainly hurts to hear and acknowledge that this game isn't a very strong 'watcher'. It 'is' easier to appreciate from a player's perspective - which is why I made a few suggestions in the past specifically to improve the spectator experience.

I will say that it 'would' be good to have seen more two way communication between Pixile and its community. Not sure why they went so quiet on the Twitch front (maybe because participant players tended to focus them, interfering with their ability to demonstrate places or mechanics 🤔)

[frigid nexus]

Have to wait longer for matchmaking

[drifting fox]

There have been negative reviews, a playerbase drop (SteamDB), and a very obvious empty royale queue (easily verified) yeah

[frigid nexus]

Lack of unique gameplay concepts that make half of the English reviews on steam are just compare this game with other more famous games like furry fornite, webfishing royale, animal crossing...

[vale mason]

also recent thread on reddit showing that some people didn't like the update. It's actually hard to have such topics upvoted on reddit, since reddit is usuall strong echo chamber of most devoted fans to any topic be it games or manga or whatever given subreddit is touching. That is a strong indicator.

[halcyon lily]

I've been noticing this not only on Steam but on other websites where people are trying to recommend the game to others.
The main appeal shouldn't have to be "Animal Crossing but with more furries!", SAR needs something to set itself a part from the crowd, because at that point why not just.. Play AC then.. (The game being free obviously makes it more accessible, but I feel like my point still stands).

[winged obsidian]

Because my switch keeps crashing

[soft needle]

...

To go back to the original post's question.

I do play the game. I've spent most of my time in SAW.

That is an improvement on pre-SAW. I practically stopped playing SvR (the only mode I played). Got tired of queuing up for getting punched in the face. That's partially a me problem (also partially a high level player problem).

The SAW quests compelled me to get more matches in, in more modes, including in royale. Most matches delved into are quest-driven. If I were able to hide the Quests I'd be less compelled to do so, but it's good that the Challenges are no longer front and center.

A second reason would be that a lowered tolerance for being punched in the face means shorter play times. I know that the analogy sounds negative - there isn't a positive way to spin it without trivializing it. Not a problem that 90% of the players will experience - though they might take flak from the fallout.

I guess a third reason would be that I found a different experience that allows me more expression. Still come back to SAW.

...

It seems to me that a portion of the new update's issue is that Pixile dropped the original menu.

I do wonder if it would be plausible to simply reintroduce the old menu (without needing to join SAW) so that players who don't want to interact with LSAW don't have to do so.

While also figuring out the friction points that make LSAW unliked by some players: Starting with the separation of certain features from each other (customize/ photo booth/ labs/ shops)

[vale mason]

yes, many people complained about UI. but SAW is lobby itself now. there is that issue if you want people not to jion SAW

I hope more people speak up. If not, then that means those that left aren't active on discord even, so I bark up the wrong tree, so to speak.

[soft needle]

If a player wants to go from one match to the next without interacting with SAW, I see no issue with that. It wasn't a problem before SAW update, and pushing them onto SAW was a strategic error.

SAW should be seen more like a story mode, repeatable on a per superanimal basis (optional)

[halcyon lily]

At this point I feel like it's too late to make SAW optional, they went all in on it, and it's up to people to decide if they're dipping or staying to get used to the changes.
Old UI has to be a toggle though, or at least the new one has to be tuned to be less cluttered. I've been playing the update since it came out and I'm still utterly confused on navigating it. Doesn't help that my unfamiliarity with it made me accidentally purchase something using tickets, but that could very well just be a me issue.

[soft needle]

Very few new elements aren't already translated to the old UI. Namely Quests, Inventory, Badges and Museum stuff. 🤔

[vale mason]

I wouldn't want to sit in separate lobby alienated just because I prefered old UI. Anyway, devil is in the details and this topic is more advanced than on the surface. I think it would be best to have some thread for that.

[halcyon lily]

I've acknowledged that this is the game now, and that will definitely negatively impact my overall activity with it.

[woeful flame]

I don't know if I truly have anything I haven't said on my review, if anything - It felt .. justified?

-# While I do still, and will be contributing in the background -- and I could understand the dev team is very smol -- I think it is certainly a bit disappointing that after overhyping the update - we have almost little to no feedback on what got in.

Pt1;
A lot of the community and me, have been suggesting a lot of stuff .. While, yes I do understand the devs have their own vision for the following;

• Friend List
• Fishing, Bug Catching
• Quests, NPCs, etc.
  but removing a lot of the features while giving us no feedback on it is certainly uncalled for. Kind of wished there was a better communication, beyond "damage control" on Steam, especially forums.

Pt2;
The promised balance changes never really came to fruition? No balance changes, new weapons, or anything really exciting for Streamers to bring new players in, beyond being MMO.

To add to that, BR along with other LTM is now pretty much dead with the new queue, thanks to split playerbase, etc. Well you can certainly tell me to add "ranked" in there or wait months, but its just kind of there.

Pt3;
Lastly, I think the old fb cycle or Roadmap should at least been there. Because now that the content is kind of left like this for months - we will be left questioning about non-seasonal updt, without any guarantee of whether the feedback goes anywhere. Like what about the promised Social stuff? Are they just done too?

[soft needle]

Future tense. Hence not too late.

[woeful flame]

I think the slight backlash is fair game, even on Steam.

I doubt it is that late to turn this mess around, provided that they are willing to at least communicate with us -- after they're back on Next Patch or so.

[vale mason]

what is the "damage control" on steam?

[woeful flame]

Sorry for "stealing" some of the points. I don't think disliking the current update is really a brave take for me.

"Damage control" ~ Issuing mute, deletion, or bans on forums under guise of excessively criticizing the game .. instead of yknow, addressing them.
-# Might as well not do anything at that point.

I think its about time for the community to get slightly critical. The game would sit like this for next few years, if we remain silent.

[soft needle]

As a matter of curiosity, I may be drawing a blank - but what features did they remove?

[halcyon lily]

A really small one is the animal counter, afaik you can only check that during ||A quest that keeps track of your animal count|| now. <-- (Quest spoilers).

[soft needle]

Ah okay. Wasn't even aware that that was a thing.

[vale mason]

I don't think that anybody minds, this isn't stealing noble prize in literature xD. And I do not think it has anything to do with bravery, either you like something or you don't.

[halcyon lily]

I think it's also a case of some people feeling afraid to criticize the game as a whole, as it's often viewed negatively if not worded very specifically.

[woeful flame]

There are a lot actually.

• Emu/Hamsterball in the Lobby.
• Additional lag (not sure what they did there, AS is slightly more unstable now).
• Collected animal count ?/552 in Labs
• Accessible Loadout, Squad, etc from main menu.
• Ability to preview and equip things from the Shop directly.
• Something to do with AIs being dumber, especially on melee range.
• Various "fixes" that was never even mentioned in the patch note. Which apparently causes new silly behaviours with the AIs?
  These are a few. There are lots more which aren't mentioned anywhere -- and I don't think anyone complaints about them??

[vale mason]

That's true, toxic positivity is a thing here. Especially if you say "game bad" as objective, or without giving your reasons(I think btw that this shouldn't be a social obligation, but thats my personal opinion). You need to tip toe around some people, and not everyone has communicative skills to do so, especially younger gamers.

[halcyon lily]

Correct, this is why I'm being very careful with my critiques.

[soft needle]

Focusing upon a perceived issue, qualifying it as an issue and proposing options for solving it, is one way to go about it. Harder to pull off if one's personal temperature is running high.

There has also been criticism of certain quests for being too RNG.

The more that I think about it, the more that I'm in agreement. The odds for certain things shouldn't be pull quests, but rather should be push achievements. 🤔

Exceedingly rare things can still exist - but just not be an official requirement to 100% the game.

[halcyon lily]

I've noticed the pearl quests in specific (As mentioned earlier) causes people the most agony, and I even saw someone drop the game altogether from it, which may seem silly on the surface, but is completely fair once you take note at how mind-numbing the process is. (As much as I want to yipyap about this, there's like, what, two threads about this? So I won't clog this one with the same thing I've been saying for multiple days now).

[soft needle]

Better, in my mind, for a semi-'repetitive but achievable' quest ("I lost my (thingymajig). Could you help me find it" quest to occur. Like union work.

Oh yes, I'm aware that those quests exist - but it was worth mentioning as a potential friction point.

[halcyon lily]

Overall, these are all very good points I agree with, now to hope if the devs will take note of them.

Of course, there's some things that just can't be fixed because it's simply a side effect of SAW existing, but the things that can be reasonably tweaked will go a long way.

[deft tusk]

the majority of the playerbase didn't specifically ask for most of the mechanics that were added, but there was definitely a percentage of players that liked the social aspect of SAR

in my opinion the current game is less social than it was before

in some lobbies maybe just as social

from my own experience the only two times i had a natural opportunity to interact with other players were clam hunting and fish frenzies

i hate to be critical of a game im so passionate about but nearly every mechanic could have been done better in my opinion. there's definitely still hope for sar but i think they should listen to their community more next time they add a content update

console chat is huge and a step in the right direction

fishing is very limited and a mechanic that can easily be fully explored in a single day

bug catching is not really too appealing since there's nothing to do with the bugs (keep in mind there's a museum update wip though)

the biggest question mark coming from me is the decision to add respawn tanks, because a quick search from before the update (if you search reboot for example) in the feedback will show that the community was strongly against the idea of respawn tanks

i am not too bothered by them personally but it was just strange to me that the devs ignored any other popular br suggestions and added one of the most downvoted ideas instead

i guess it's just a bit discouraging, i have been active in feedback chat/forum since i joined the server around a year and a half ago, and i have seen so many unique, creative, and most importantly, fun suggestions over time. so many of them get lots of upvotes and it's clear that the community thinks they would be awesome additions to the game.

so when a large update finally comes out and none of those inspiring, creative ideas are added, it kinda hurts. i know the playerbase doesn't necessarily know what's best for the game, but if a game is community-oriented then listening to the community more often (or at least interacting with them more) would seem to help with a lot of issues

[vale mason]

I think those suggestions from people arose earlier than a year and a half when you joined the server, since Pixel develops this project for 3 years. I wouldn't be suprised that the freshest ones didn't get added, if they were busy developing. At least, that's what I asssume, it's just my assumptions that they did this big chonky update actually listening to some people. And I ask those: where are you now? Perhaps, there were no suggestions like that to begin with.

[deft tusk]

i dont believe it was a full 3 years

i am pretty sure i started playing immediately after superite was added which was around when they started development for SAW

[worldly fiber]

It pains me to admit it, but I suspect us opponents to respawn tanks were a vocal minority. Although, it's only a suspicion, and I have a stronger conviction that we had a more informed stance than those in favor of it, some of whom only think "I died and have to wait for match to end. Not fun. Fix."

[deft tusk]

in any case fishing and bug catching were never popular suggestions to my knowledge, maybe they were suggested a couple times but im pretty sure majority of the community preferred updates to br

[worldly fiber]

Bug catching doesn't seem like a social activity to me, especially when you consider that bugs can be stolen by people

[deft tusk]

"vocal minority" implies we have a weaker voice than other group for some unknown reason. but in general we were not a minority

[drifting fox]

remember discord doesnt represent most of sar players too

[deft tusk]

this is just one random feedback post out of like a dozen

[deft tusk]

this is fair but my argument is more of the fact that the community doesn't feel like it's being listened to

[worldly fiber]

Doesn't it imply we had a disproportionately stronger voice?

[drifting fox]

if you look at other platforms you see many players not on here

[drifting fox]

i agree

[deft tusk]

you can't really listen to a community outside of discord unless you're roaming for feedback on other social media which seems

odd

[drifting fox]

mostly due to lack of responses from devs

[deft tusk]

the most dedicated place for feedback to my knowledge is this channel

[drifting fox]

used to be that a lot of discussions theyd join in

[worldly fiber]

Caused by, like in most cases of vocal minorities, a lack of concern from the majority

[deft tusk]

so even if active members here are the minority, this is still their best chance to gather feedback since there is no central place within the game for it

[worldly fiber]

I think another thing is that the theme of the game made respawn tanks basically inevitable

[drifting fox]

same thing with the saw thing - look on reddit you'll see people not knowing there was negative opinions on it at all

[worldly fiber]

The setting outright says animals are cloned for each game, it'd be thematically weird that there are no rebooting features

So despite how much it irks me that respawn tanks have been added, it makes sense to me that they were

[deft tusk]

that's a fair point but lore should not be sacrificed for the sake of player convenience, ever

or

other way around mb

and to be clear, i think respawn tanks are not necesarily a bad update

i am just disappointed that they were added instead of the several other upvoted suggestions

[worldly fiber]

Like <caps>removing player collision</caps>

<caps>unless you coded your game badly it should not even take a week to do this</caps>

[deft tusk]

cosmetic ideas get their stuff added quite often which is awesome, but when it comes to game mechanics, it seems like nothing ever gets done

[drifting fox]

Anyway, I think what I mentioned is likely to be the core problems rather than individual stuff like these

Overscoping, lack of communication, lack of regular updates, overdesign, players kept out of the loop of dev (release prototypes and let players be involved in making modes), repetitiveness, lack of streamability

[deft tusk]

the only changes they made due to player feedback from my memory is zipline buff, bandolier buff, and removing super juicer

all of those were very simple changes and not necessarily adding anything new

[vale mason]

I think that pixel claimed that communication was their strong suit.

[deft tusk]

not to mention none of them really helped the game thrive (other than maybe bandolier buff depending on who you ask)

[vale mason]

Bandolier buff was my suggestion and I'm glad they added it, but it wasn't SAW package

[drifting fox]

I liked the way pixile communicated in 2022/2023 and before

This server felt alive then

[deft tusk]

i wasnt around back then, but

in feedback, kaity and logan used to be more active because i would see them around

i think ever since it switched to feedback forum they both went pretty inactive

[drifting fox]

And clogg and michael too

[deft tusk]

not to say they dont still read over things

[vale mason]

Maybe because feedback chat instead of forum lead to more heated discussions.

that required their intervention

[deft tusk]

i dont think thats why

[drifting fox]

Not really

[deft tusk]

kaity would upvote a lot of suggestions

logan would comment on things

positive things

[drifting fox]

I think feedback chats was more civil actually

[vale mason]

I was absent over 2 years i think here. So I have no opinion about communication from devs tbh.

[deft tusk]

intervention was only done by mods or logan a handful of times from what i can remember

[drifting fox]

Here it's looping around the same topics, losing track of the OP like we are now

[deft tusk]

yeah i don't even bother staying on topic anymore most the time because i shouldn't feel discouraged to have open discussion just because they got rid of the only real sar-related chat

forums make way more sense for cosmetics

feedback for an entire game is much more likely to branch out into new ideas naturally

[drifting fox]

I just wish Pixile acknowledged the negative feedback and not just the good

[deft tusk]

yeah communication and interaction are both missing

it's their game they can do what they want, i just dont want to see it die

i wish i was around in the earlier days because from what others say, it seems like they cared a lot more back then

[drifting fox]

Yeah

At least talked more

[vale mason]

BTw, I do not mind that there is offtopic in this thread, at least more people will see it and share. And more people will actually say why they arent playing.

[drifting fox]

You'd at least hear from michael or clogg every day or so

So at least you had an idea what they were doing

[deft tusk]

well also from my understanding there are multiple people working under pixile that have roles dedicated to the community side of sar

and the most active community to my knowledge is the discord

[drifting fox]

And you barely see them either, yeah

[deft tusk]

so if thats true then where are they? i dont see them posting anywhere or conversing outside of steam posts

i get they are busy but assuming its a full-time job it seems like members should be around more often

im not even trying to call anyone specific out, i dont really know exactly who should be interacting with the community

but for a game like this, they really need more interaction

not only from a community perspective but also from a business perspective

because interaction between the dev team and the players builds trust

and i think a lot of players have lost trust over time due to lack of communication and basically zero interaction at all

[tardy quartz]

Once we're back from the break we're going to address feedback and talk a bit more about what's next, it's a bit more effective than responding to feedback posts that won't be seen by every player

Though we have already talked about what we'd like to do next in some of the previous Mooseletters, and even at the bottom of our patch notes

There's a lot to talk about so it'll be a bit project for the comms team, but I think you should also manage your expectations as expecting an update from individual team members on what we're working on publicly, daily isn't reasonable

[deft tusk]

thank you for the communication! i appreciate it

[drifting fox]

Thank you Logan! This is exactly what we need to see

[tardy quartz]

Many of us have overlapping roles, just kinda the way it worked out, and I think a lot of the negative feedback you're looking for specific comment on is one we might want to speak to wider and have bigger internal discussions about

Feedback is always helpful and we do read it all, hope the timeliness helps with reassurance on that at least. Also discussions about Discord not always being reflective of the larger playerbase is also accurate, there's a lot of folks who give us feedback through all sorts of different channels

[deft tusk]

thank you and i wanna apologize because part of my frustrations is from recent lack of activity but i didn't realize the team was on break

[tardy quartz]

it's the holidays, tends to happen, and it's not like our work stopped with the release of SAW too

[vale mason]

Sadly, I think most of the playerbase do not bother and use any of the channels for feedback. You either amaze them as consumers or not.

[drifting fox]

I like the SAW update fwiw, I just want more people to play with, so I'm trying to think about the player count issue

[tardy quartz]

The easiest (and most blunt) answer to this is that it isn't something you should worry about as a player

I also wouldn't call it an issue, it's an improvement from where we were, I think you're looking at the glass half full

[drifting fox]

I mean, sure, but queuing into a lobby of 13 players for royale is kind of a buzz kill

[deft tusk]

i personally really appreciate interaction from pixile, whether it be you or clogg or anyone else. i understand the discord isn't the only active area but it seems like the most community-oriented at least, so i'm happy that feedback is still being read and i guess i just would prefer more interaction like what you're doing now. if there are reasons why that can't or shouldn't happen then i understand though

[tardy quartz]

Then make your feedback about that

[tardy quartz]

I think the big thing is just team member bandwidth, small studio means everyone wears multiple hats

[drifting fox]

All my feedback is about that and repetitiveness tbh

[vale mason]

What do you mean by that? Ofc people will worry, they invested time in multiplayer game, sometimes their money.

[deft tusk]

in any case thank you for addressing our issues!! it helps to know people are still listening

[tardy quartz]

As a player you should give feedback about the game and how you'd like to see it improved (such as fuller BR matches), feedback about player numbers won't create meaningful discussions for us to take action on since of course we want the game to grow

[drifting fox]

Well, again, I did mention: what can Pixile do to improve repetitiveness and increase the streamability of this game? As well as involve the community more in developing new modes and features e.g. by releasing a prototype and taking feedback on how it can be improved

[vale mason]

"fuller BR matches" and "not enough players in BR" is about the same feedback

[deft tusk]

perhaps give feedback expressing ideas on how the team can counteract or even capitalize on the fact that there are smaller lobbies

counteracting it would be suggesting methods to grow the playerbase and if you have any unique thoughts to help the team then i'm sure they wouldn't mind reading them and considering them

capitalizing on it means find ways to add content that is engaging regardless of player-count. this could be improving bots or just adding fun activities that aren't as community-oriented

that's my take on it at least

[vale mason]

many people say that actually there is downgrade in some aspects. and in number of players, there is not a lot of improvement, but as a player I shouldnt give feedback on that i suppose

[tardy quartz]

To be clear, I'm specifically talking about player count and people hovering on numbers through platforms like SteamDB

[vale mason]

ah, now you are clear

[tardy quartz]

I think wanting more people in BR matches is a fine request and something we can talk about, I know I have ideas and I'm sure others do internally too

Panicking over player population doesn't help any discussion though

[deft tusk]

in other words pixile is always aware of how much their game is thriving so it's best to only mention it if it adds something constructive

[tardy quartz]

yep!

we should hopefully have something to share that'll address some expressed concerns and what's next in the near-ish future though, so make sure to just keep giving feedback so we can dig into it. even if we aren't responding, many of us are always reading and checking things out (even during our vacation time)

[deft tusk]

thank you logoctopus

[bitter belfry]

Yes, lol

I think it was a very bold move

SAW added respawn tanks, but they didn't balance them to address the concerns many players had about adding respawn tanks in the first place.

I was one of the many players who suggested respawn tanks, and honestly I regret supporting it. The execution was really bad, imo

I thought all the discussions we had about respawn tanks in the feedback chat would've been taken into account, tbh

It feels very one‑sided

I'm not sure what the point of having debates was if the negative feedback was just going to be ignored in favor of "by popular demand" 💀 I honestly got upset at that SAR reddit post, lol. I think it's somewhat demotivating

[tardy quartz]

I'd be interested to hear what these other popular BR suggestions are that dog's referring to (or even you Saotekin) as it's a bit hard to address them when they're not stated

But Respawning Tanks have been a popularly-requested topic for years, we've had numerous discussions on it and there's pro's and con's to it, which we can balance around with feedback too, but there's only so much you can do without testing them in a live enviornment and giving time for people to play around with them

[bitter belfry]

I'd say it's kind of too late to properly test respawn tanks at this point. There aren't many players in royale anymore, so I can't give the same level of feedback as I used to.

Bots don't get angry when you use a respawn tank 5 times in one game

So it seems fair at the moment

I think it would've been easier to get feedback on respawn tanks in old SAR than in SAW, before the playerbase was split.

imo

I'm not going to focus too much on respawn tanks, though, since this isn't the topic of the forum and probably would be better in another post

[bitter belfry]

I wouldn't consider my feedback at the time to be the best, tbh

They were horrible and poorly thought out, lol. But I think others made some very valid points there

[soft needle]

(I notice that there doesn't seem to be a feedback thread dedicated to respawn tanks post-introduction)

[bitter belfry]

^

This might be the reason

[tardy quartz]

Sorry what reason is that?

I'm not really following

[bitter belfry]

We don't have to deal with really good players getting respawned over and over, since we're mostly in bot lobbies. They seem balanced right now

But I find it very annoying, but it's very rare to occur with the current size of royales. And mine and possibly other claims would be invalid because of that.

Reasons: Bots don't respawn tank camp, bots don't take advantage of respawn tanks. Flaws are invisible

I don't bother giving feedback when everything is already positive, so I've been quiet in these channels.

[tardy quartz]

Can probably consider one once we get back from break too, but there's still some feedback on tanks I'd like to parse through

[bitter belfry]

Cool

[soft needle]

I notice that there have been a few events organized since introduction. They would probably also have provided some feedback on respawn tanks.

I've not had any interaction with them - so I'm going to take a step back on discussing them - though I do recall that respawning was always contentious as a proposed mechanic (and that an alternative would have been to allow dead players to leave duos/squads before the end of match as if it was solos, if they want to).

The new mechanic makes this alternative make less sense (and could put a team with a leaver at a disadvantage) but both could technically co-exist - especially if players who leave aren't automatically out of team and simply wait until the next match.

Actually, one way to mitigate issues with the respawn tanks could be to say that there is only enough power to run the respawners for a limited number of times (darn SASR) - translating to a limit of 4 revives per match.

This would have the effect of being more likely to be benefited from by less experienced teams - or unlucky skilled teams.

[unreal jetty]

if you mean competitive events, umbra recently hosted a regular squads weekly event, with one major change in the scoring; a team will only be scored up to ten kills, any total kills above that number will be meaningless
this was supposedly because of the respawn tanks, but many players (including me) complained about the kill cap.

looking back at the event afterwards, respawn tanks were pretty rarely used and didnt affect much in terms of gameplay

[soft needle]

I see. So they over-corrected for the expected or potential impact of the tanks.

[unreal jetty]

yes

my own personal opinion (i have very little experience with battle royales with respawning features) i preferred the game before they were implemented

[deft tusk]

to clarify, i want to make the distinction between popular and upvoted, because popular might imply it's been suggested numerous times, while upvoted just means it was a post that had lots of support from the community. so the one time i mistakenly said "popular", i was still talking about posts with lots of support, not other ideas that were suggested multiple times.

i could still link a few examples of posts that had overwhelmingly positive reception if you want, because there are dozens of posts with above-average upvotes and zero downvotes, which speaks to me as something that players would love to see added to the game. but these posts are not difficult to find within the two feedback channels, and i don't want to subject you to my bias by cherry-picking the ones that sound most appealing to me personally.

the interesting thing about respawn tanks is that, while they were a popular suggestion, the idea was widely hated within the community (at least here on discord). i suspect this is because players who are used to the game have a much easier time realizing the issues with adding respawn tanks to this game, while newer players are less experienced and simply think "this thing in fortnite should be in this game too" without fully realizing that SAR is a much faster-paced game with a higher skill gap

so in other words the only players that wanted respawn tanks were the ones who weren't active in the community. and i get that appealing to new players is good for retention, but when reception for an idea is shown to be overwhelmingly negative within feedback channels and then the concept is still implemented, i hope you can understand how that can be shocking

[vale mason]

I would say that this is more complicated, and voting here doesnt mean that suggestion is bad or good.

But I also think that the respawn thingy wasnt popular, as far as I remember when i was active here. Popular as in voted for.

[bitter belfry]

Same

And I think it's mainly new players who'd suggest it

Since long time users would know the consequences

As far as I know

[vale mason]

We still do not have much answer to the main question

titular

im glad that lots of talking happened during the day, but I hoped for more answers

[vale mason]

were other things in SAW popularly requested topics?

[bitter belfry]

Well, there were some QoLs that were popular

[vale mason]

ah, yes, I remember people asked for friend add and chat in console, yes?

[bitter belfry]

Yep

And better customization UI

And mini games

[vale mason]

i know that people asked for some place not to fight, generally speaking. even if they didnt have specific idea

[bitter belfry]

Yeah

I suggested a way to quick travel, but I'm sure many others done as well

But they are MTNs

Not what I suggested

though

[vale mason]

somtimes people have very general suggestions or the devs have something else in mind what somebody had in mind. when somebody asked for mini-games, maybe he thought that they would be better. But not much can be improved if people don't speak up

[bitter belfry]

Yeah

I know fishing was suggested before

[vale mason]

tbh fishing was the thing i was looking most forwards to

[bitter belfry]

Not sure how popular the idea was though

[bitter belfry]

Yeah, same

[vale mason]

but the execution was far from the kind of fishing i enjoy

[deft tusk]

im not sure i follow this. what are votes for if not to represent how a player feels about something being added?

thats the whole point of the reactions, otherwise the posts here would just be posts with nothing else

[bitter belfry]

The devs add features to the game regardless of whether a suggestion gets positive or negative reactions

[deft tusk]

yeah that was my point i made earlier, i think suggestions deserve more focus because i really wanna see a lot of the ideas in feedback being added at some point

for now i've realized most of the ideas weren't necessarily aligned with SAW so i understand why there's been a hold on content updates

and the QoL stuff that was added was good

[bitter belfry]

Yeah

[polar totem]

SAR is the kind of game where id enjoy 7-30 minute sessions, but with all the new additions, its disrupted that completely

I was an avid SAR player years ago, but even after that phase id play about 4 times a month just to relax

Now I just don't even feel like logging on and going into a match, it's just not as cosy as it used to be

[deft tusk]

console chat was really good, im happy they finally got around to that

[polar totem]

That's a great addition for sure!
I can't deny they brought some great long awaited features

Regardless of my own reception of the update, I'm really happy to see SAR spark up back to life! I can see that lots of people are having fun with the new content

[vale mason]

im saying that majority doesn't make right

not neceserily, at least

[deft tusk]

that's true

but it's still a representation of what players want

[vale mason]

and that's how I remember also Pixel said(long tima go), that voting isn't always taken into consideration only

[vale mason]

only on discord, and im not sure if statistically we represent the demographics

[deft tusk]

i would think it's fair to say that representation on discord is proportional to the rest of the playerbase

there is not much difference other than the fact that you have to be 13+ to be on discord

[vale mason]

you could have more furries for example on discord, people that are more casual and "artsy"

less older people since they dont use discord

etc

[deft tusk]

they do

i don't think it's a noticeable difference between players in this server and players outside of this server

[vale mason]

I think younger people have more time to be in some discord communities, while older just jump in the game(because they have kids jobs and every minute matters)

[deft tusk]

i think being in a discord server mostly just shows that you are a bit more dedicated to the game, but it's not even that much trouble to join a server so really it hardly means anything

[vale mason]

If it's really like you say, then im not sure why respawning was added.

[deft tusk]

i think the difference isnt that they are on discord

i think its that the people who leave any sort of feedback are active

and active players are more experienced and understand the game better

90% of the players who came into the server to suggest adding a respawn are fortnite players who died in 20 seconds because they didn't land with their squad and then are too impatient to wait 7 minutes or just re-queue to wait even less time

they are almost always not active members of the community, so they don't understand that adding respawn tanks makes the skill gap even worse than it already is and decreases their odds of winning by even more

the only true benefit is that they potentially get to play the game longer if they are dying early all the time

[vale mason]

probably 99% that had this idea thought that they just want to play a bit longer

they don't neceserily care about winning

[deft tusk]

yeah and thats fine, but for casual players, playing the game isn't really that fun against the more competitive players who are really skilled and put in more effort

and to add respawn tanks is to make those players even stronger

[vale mason]

you are right. people don't think about long term consequences

[deft tusk]

it helps skilled players more than it helps new players

and that isn't good for sar in my opinion because the #1 complaint if you look at the steam reviews is that players don't stand a chance against other players with way more experience

[bitter belfry]

Yeah

[vale mason]

and im not trying to make a smartass out of myself here. sometimes i don't either

[vale mason]

is it really though? right now it's UI probably

[bitter belfry]

I don't know about steam, but I seen many complaints here

Steam has a bunch of UI complaints, yeah

Was reading through them

[deft tusk]

i was talking about before the update

[soft needle]

A pain point that the respawn suggestions wanted to address was needing to wait until other players finished a given match. That includes fill matches.

[deft tusk]

i have no doubts most of the recent negative reviews are about the update

[deft tusk]

there is no real penalty though like in other games, you just dont get rewards

[soft needle]

That is a penalty.

Especially if you're chasing challenges or similar.

(eg. Duos day)

[bitter belfry]

Ah

[deft tusk]

that is a very minor penalty compared to most team-based online games

but youre right

[soft needle]

Okay I should actually take a look at the feedback to get an idea of what people are focusing on.

[vale mason]

there were very little negative reviews before update, generally people just left without giving any. overwhelmingly positive was the score

[deft tusk]

it wasnt overwhelming, just very positive, and it still is very positive

recent is mostly positive due to the update though

but overall its still around the same average

what im saying is

if you look at any of the negative reviews from before the update, over half of them are just complaining about how difficult it is to face other players

[vale mason]

I am doing that right nw

will see

those in english are for various reasons, i found only 3-4 that mentioned skill gap. many are in foreign languages though

so "over half of them" is a great exageration

it's definitely a problem for many people. such old game make such problems by default, when they are niche

[copper ice]

Even in English the top rated review right now is about the content of the newest update; specifically the stagnation/repetition of BR and the clunkiness of new features

[vale mason]

I think repetition is the most touched topic overall,pre-update

others are lags, some personal conflicts, various things, teaming, cheating, ban complaints...

[copper ice]

As a generally newer player (~1 month, played very briefly prior) that hasn't quite hit me yet but I do still have gripes with the newest update specifically

But I do consider SAW and the social hub a really strong foundation for things to come and I'm looking forward to how it's expanded on

[bitter belfry]

tbh, I've never expected the fishing mechanic to be advance

When I used to suggest fishing

This was mine

FISHING SUPER ANIMAL DNA
I want to be able to fish for super animal DNA in the waiting lobby. Maybe have a little pond that players can gather together and fish for Super animal DNA.

While fishing, you'll have to wait for a while before you catch a random Super animal DNA.

After fishing Super animal DNA in the waiting lobby, you'll have to wait until after the match to receive the Super animal DNA.

Very basic, lol

[vale mason]

now we know who to blame lol

just kidding

[bitter belfry]

xD

[vale mason]

but respawning and fishing are two birds with one stone

or, one snake

[bitter belfry]

rip

FIRST TIME PLAYERS
When you first play the game, you will be assigned to an offline battle royale mode where you face against bots only. The mode should play like a normal battle royale mode, but you're against bots instead of real players.

You should be able to pause the game at any time, since it's an offline battle royale against bots.

When you open your inventory, the game should pause so you're able to read the stats and learn what each weapon and power up does.

When you get killed, you will automatically respawn after a short duration. However, if a bot was to get killed, they won't respawn. The goal of this mode is to teach new players how to play, and not to get rid of the new player.

There should be an in depth in game tutorial on how to use controls, movement, weapons, power ups, etc. As you're playing and picking up items, the tutorial should explain the basics of what everything is and does.

Once you've eliminated all remaining bots in the match, you will win and exit to the main menu. After completing the offline battle royale match, you will earn a special reward for completing your first battle royale match.

Once you exit to the main menu, you will be able to play against real players.

This is kind of like SAW's tutorial

[copper ice]

as for respawn tanks, i personally don't think they really fit the pacing and match length of the game

[vale mason]

it's kinda like now, since there are only bots anyway. so no reason to make bot specific lobby

[bitter belfry]

Lol

Yeah

SAW's tutorial has been stretched across multiple days, though

[copper ice]

I mean fortnite does the same thing tbh. they force you into entirely bot lobbies until you hit a certain account level

[bitter belfry]

Mine was in a single game of BR 💀

[bitter belfry]

Yeah, it's very common in most games, I think

I won't say that these were my ideas, though

Many were refined and expanded within the feedback chat channel and based on previous feedback

Which I miss a lot

[copper ice]

i'm still unsure on having a tutorial that has different mechanics to the actual game and forces a win, I think that sets unrealistic expectations

[bitter belfry]

Yeah

True

Though, I think that's how most tutorials have it

Never seen one where you lose

[copper ice]

I feel like I have! and then they do the whole like "don't give up, it's just that not everyone can win every match" thing

[bitter belfry]

Cool

[copper ice]

and then it would also organically integrate the cloning thing this game has going on

[bitter belfry]

I think that's how SAW has it, though

In Dogna's first dialogue in the SAW clip

When your super fox gets shot

[copper ice]

Oh for sure

[deft tusk]

i still think its over half but maybe our formats are different

i omitted 2 reviews which were not real reviews because they just said profanity and "many problems"

but these are the top 6 reviews for me and only 2 of them arent complaining about the playerbase being too difficult to play against

i am not cherrypicking and i have made a collage of this before to demonstrate that it's a real problem that is reflected by players, it's also the reason why my irl friends won't get into the game

[copper ice]

thats an interesting take because I managed to get new people into the game and they liked how competitive the lobbies were with a mix of skill levels - I guess different people want different things

[vale mason]

6 is a bit to small of a sample

[deft tusk]

i would keep going but it took me too long to fit those into one image lol

[vale mason]

I took all reviews from 2024-2025 and it didn't seem like even 1/4

no ways it's more than half

[deft tusk]

oh, i took them from release to nov 2025

[copper ice]

for me (also in english) i have one recent negative review and then the others are like...0.2 hours played "i don't know how to start a match"-style reviews

[deft tusk]

yeah we are talking about before the update

because recent reviews are all about the update that came out a few weeks ago

[vale mason]

unfortunately that problem doesn't have any easy solution, other than a lot of fresh players

[copper ice]

OH right

[deft tusk]

there are solutions and most games attempt matchmaking as solutions but i know matchmaking is not easy and the playerbase wont really allow for it

[copper ice]

steam reviews are also generally skewed because people who like something are statistically less likely to leave a review for something

[deft tusk]

yeah, there arent a whole lot of negative reviews in general other than the recent ones

[wispy pumice]

Hey dog and ORSIENE,

I have drafted a fairly long message that I want to drop here that is entirely in context of this post

If you're both still the middle of talking, I can wait to post it, or I could perhaps put it in a new thread if you think that would be better.

Just felt like giving a heads up is the right thing to do.

[copper ice]

Oh yeah go for it! what we were talking about was generally pretty inconsequential

[wispy pumice]

okay, gotcha.

lemme just look up rq what the url syntax is again

ah yep i got it backwards, good thing i checked lol

I want to share a half thought, half rant. This is partly in continuation to last year's conversations on the topic of ranked mode in the context of SAR (link below). This afternoon in solos, I came across a very skilled player; they did very well to snipe me from a distance in the swamps and took out all of my armour with it, then proceeded to push up with a close ranged weapon for the kill. it was quite impressive, but, I was so preoccupied with completing quests and challenges that I felt like my goal and their goal were completely different. That is why I am posting about this here.

I've felt that with all the quests and challenges in BR, I have become so desensitized to playing for sport and instead just settle for quest running, which is largely in part due to my ADHD. Regardless, I am sure many players are doing as well in BR now, especially new players that are just now coming in and getting quests like "kill 1 player with [gun X]". Granted, I think that challenges pre-update were already encouraging similar behaviour, but now it's far more egregious - just run and gun until you hit your goal(s), then quickly die and go back to the Overworld! It was already an issue pre-update with challenges, but now it's even more egregious.

I genuinely feel bad for those skilled players that have been around the longest out of all of us. Even people who aren't good like me see how they are struggling to cope, and it genuinely breaks my heart. These players need an outlet to call their own (that's the thread link), although personally I would be fine with just some kind of Victory Island-exclusive version of the available BR modes so that there's a simple enough way for longtime players to not get drowned out by the quest grinders. It would be ideal if it was not possible to even complete quests or challenges in this other mode, IMO, so as to remove all distractions from the game mode.

Now, to be fair, I have been around other small communities in the past that have always had the option to separate casual players with one interest, and the competitive players with other interests. I have seen firsthand how amazing it is to see these players have a good time and what the benefits are IRL, and I have also seen the flipside and how it negatively impacted the community. So, I am very biased.

Based on my personal observation, I genuinely believe that most longtime players, BR skill notwithstanding, have likely already resorted to making smurf accounts from being burnt out long ago with that black gem after reaching level 1000+. Now, they have more incentives, especially with the introduction of this new social platform and them getting constantly slammed in the lobbies by randoms friend-requesting simply because of their level, they have even more motivation to continue playing. That inspires more antisocial behavior, particularly siloing of that part of the community who are already on their own doing tournaments and the like away from the public eye.

Which stinks, because based on what I have seen from the intent of this update, Pixile had been heavily pushing prosocial behavior. And, to that end, I am genuinely happy for Pixile with getting this update, but I don't think they ever saw the writing on the wall about this personally.

[vale mason]

all separations etc are a moot point until there are 54 bots, 10 players per lobby

I remember I made a suggestion for some competetive mode myself

[wispy pumice]

that's genuinely the experience I saw in the game, which didin't make any sense unless that player number in the queue includes bots

[vale mason]

it does lol

unfortunately the count doesnt discriminate against bots

[wispy pumice]

Although you are right

[vale mason]

perhaps it would be good idea to have separate numbers

but generally people discern

[wispy pumice]

the goal here is not to bring together a community of longstanding players and new players with entirely different goals

it never was

they were just pushing this update to attract new players

if that was not the intent, then the general thoughts/consensus among longtime players must be wholly misrepresented

[vale mason]

you are right about siloing. I myself stopped playing at one point and only played at private servers

[wispy pumice]

then the separation is already there

[vale mason]

it was my suggestion to make it official and not like right now. the separation is since years

[copper ice]

I agree that new and veteran players have different goals but i'm also kinda curious why the only "solution" is to seperate them?

[wispy pumice]

well this whole update should have come years ago, frankly

i understand that pixile was not an independent company for a while

[vale mason]

#🧩feedback message

[wispy pumice]

if that was partly to blame, that genuinely stinks, but the point is still the same

[vale mason]

#🧩feedback message

[wispy pumice]

I believe a higher-up, corporate CEO/CPO/etc can understand that

but if it wasn't even on the docket to begin with, then either the agenda shifted completely without player input, or the input was there and they ignored it

[vale mason]

my input was 2 years ago as you can see

[wispy pumice]

yea..

[vale mason]

and i didnt think of this on a whim, there were serious reasons

[wispy pumice]

absolutely

i would have been there with you too

[vale mason]

but right now, the game is kinda dead, so not sure if we want to divide 10 players at peak hours lol. EU servers have even less

[wispy pumice]

but I had my own things to deal with

the reason I am invested in this is because I understand that this community is fractured

there's a difference between large playerbases having their own little niches within the larger system and this kind of situation

and that difference is far from small

I don't care about new players or people who hate the idea of ranked or competitive being available

I get that

but, these updates shift the focus entirely away from it

among others

I would imagine that now would be the best time for them to think about this as a whole

[copper ice]

I do agree that the social hub pulling focus away from the core mode is a little...ehhh

[vale mason]

there is no easy solution to this right now, as you can't really forbid people hunting newbies, this will always be a problem to some degree. People that played for 1000+ hours probably know about private matches that Ruki and others organize. Pixel could make separate lobby for pro players, but not sure if they want to at this time in particular.

[wispy pumice]

I don't want it to have to be the case that your private community has to find a way to get more publicity and involvement that will always get pushed aside because Pixile hasn't done enough to recognize it on their own volition

but whatever lol, I am tooting my own horn

this isn't something that I can possibly fix all by myself

[vale mason]

those private communities host matches rarely, thats how you can even have players at such small playerbase. this wouldn't work daily

not right now i think

[wispy pumice]

well, if it does, do anything and everything you guys can to make it known that it's there

[vale mason]

this would have to be done 1 hour per day or something like that

[wispy pumice]

that is how you can help

feedback is great, but if you guys end up being just as prosocial as pixile wants the community to be

despite your disadvantage

[vale mason]

btw im not into competetive mode anymore, i just came back after years of break, and im rusty. not that level anymore

compteteive as in tops of the tops

[wispy pumice]

many people have

[copper ice]

legitimately wondering what you mean by "prosocial"

[wispy pumice]

threads like these that speak it plainly, and I can read in between the lines so I figured that was what was going on

[vale mason]

You can always post your own feedback thread to make sure it's seen by devs. It's kinda hard to understand tbh. You will get my upvote for sure and other people that are skilled if they find it useful.

[wispy pumice]

hmm

[wispy pumice]

prosocial is like, being encouraged or given the opportunity to express yourself, to feel heard and represented in the community, no matter your view, opinion, etc.

what's more important is that Pixile's updates are prosocial with respect to the more advanced communication system; you can use that to bring people over to these private servers and events

just like casual players can do the same for their interests

[copper ice]

OH I gotcha, the way you were talking about implied being prosocial was a bad thing

my bad

[wispy pumice]

no it's the opposite of antisocial

[copper ice]

Yeah I mean specifically within the context of this game

[wispy pumice]

right

gotcha

well I am glad my conversation in this thread has been helpful for you guys

[vale mason]

the more people ask about something, the better. if you feel like it's a problem right now for newbies or casuals, the prosocial thing would be to make a thread to report the problem for this group

[wispy pumice]

way ahead of you, I am mentally preparing for exactly that

[vale mason]

instead of expecting the other group to make more moves(i already did a lot and I won't anymore in topics of ranked, made plenty of suggestions and conversations and I have more important problems with this game right now)

i don't mean to be rude at all, sorry if this came off like this

[wispy pumice]

ironically, my ADHD meds are currently rippling through my entire body, so I completely understand what you're talking about 🙂

[vale mason]

i really like that you participated in the discussion and adressed this problem. well, "dog" adressed this as well, but you added more context. Im happy that the linked suggestion for ranked was so popular. Back in my days, when I suggested this, there was some backlash towards my person

[copper ice]

I 100% think more competitive options would be cool but I have seen some people phrase it as like, a ranked mode would fix every problem with the game

which i just don't think is true or fair

[vale mason]

people were more divided about the idea. i guess time changes, people get better and better with years. pros are getting more pro. more people see that its a problem

[wispy pumice]

yeah communicating this not just amicably but in a way that everyone understands and isn't torn apart by the suggestion is an extremely difficult skill to master

[vale mason]

i get what you are saying, i have the same opinion. this is a seconedary problem for me but there are people that believe it's primary

[wispy pumice]

because when most people do it it comes across as either leaving information out entirely or it's too brash

plus the usual norm on social media is to try to be as ratioed as possible for whatever reason

but i digress

if you have other links to share from back in the day I can add those in as well

otherwise I will go off what I have now

[vale mason]

not any more than those two i shared i think

good luck with your thread VicPariah

[long elm]

I'm a very quest-oriented player; I go where the quests are.
Since most tasks are locked to Battle Royale, I play that much more than the other game modes.
With that advent of Super Animal World and all its quests, I've been playing the other game modes more. Entirely to get quests in them, really.
When I'm playing with friends, usually I either let them pick the game mode, or I suggest Battle Royale.

[vale mason]

SAW - why aren't you playing? Share with us some reasons.

[vale mason]

I guess my title is bad, I should rename it. I meant people that do not play the game at all(or play less), not only SAW.

Why aren't you playing? Please share your reasons.

[severe moat]

I'm going to chime in that I am playing, but the drop in players across all modes is making me hesitant to recommend the game to the friends I wanted to play with.

[lofty plover]

I think it's a mixed bag because I'm sure other players are like me who enjoy the game and just fighting bots. I can just chill and do some mindless shooting

[long shore]

lately i keep getting matchmaking failed a lot even playing on NA where i live , so it makes me not being able to play as much

[graceful urchin]

Hey, we do read and collect the feedback! Just tbh (especially as SAR grew) it's easier for me to have a more async approach. I used to get locked in long debates and it can be quite time consuming with making sure to put care into it. It's good when we can see how the community debates something too, not always black and white.

Regarding stuff like respawn tanks, that's an interesting case. We did go through the posts on it and decided to try it as Logan mentioned. Maybe they'll need tweaks and bigger changes, but as you can see even with that new thread that people have different opinions on it. Also, this is part of adding anything into the BR... which I think most of the people here want us to try more experimental and bigger changes (or am I wrong?).

Also, I really want to reiterate that constructive criticism is great and important, like much of this thread. It was a long road to getting SAW done and it's a lot of big changes so of course there'll be things we need to adjust. It's probably not obvious at the surface how crazy some features can be lol, like "ez just add a friends list". Some things were simply not added just due to time constraint (ie animal count in lab is already designed internally).

RE "seen so many unique, creative, and most importantly, fun suggestions over time", of course not all ideas will make it in or are possible, but we're definitely hoping to spend more time on that. The tanks had been started quite a while ago actually. But for instance people asked for a friends list, party invites, console chat, etc which finally we have now.

Anyway, hope this helped clear up some things!

[woeful flame]

While you're here Clogg,
Can we know what happened to PTR for major non-seasonal content update (to at least soften the blow)?

I have to be honest that compared to bugs / cosmetics, It really felt disheartening to see a numerous suggestion .. since the post-feedback thread never really went anywhere.
-# Guess I'll stop with the stuff for now, since there haven't been any sync fb to them anymore. Thanks for letting us know.

[vale mason]

if rebooting was so downvoted and made it to the game, I hope that some sort of ranked or pro lobby will make it as well. SAR is getting old, and skill gap is more of an issue now than ever(as in newbies are just bounced back by pros and it shows in many reviews). I think that more people warmed up to the idea as well.

there were some ideas that were even upvoted recently, despite the idea was very controversial (usually downvoted in old feedback chat)

like here https://discord.com/channels/413200888010637313/1413300453856510116

[vestal coyote]

Honestly I LOVE the new update but with so many quests and non combat stuff to get dug into there's not many people in the royale now

I still play but like only five people are in lobbies

🙁

[graceful urchin]

PTR can be great in an ideal world but it gets quite hard when you have much longer console lead times while trying to finish the update... ie it would likely end up being just a technical test and not anything to soften blows or do sweeping changes.

[vestal coyote]

Clogg bit of topic but could I get a hint or something to work of on what's beyond the overgrown door in victory island

Plsssss

[graceful urchin]

yeah, I will just say that michael and I both like ranked in games we play and it's not something we're against for SAR in some format, but of course that format is going to matter a lot due to the type of game we are and player splitting etc

[vestal coyote]

Just thought I'd ask while Pixile is around

[graceful urchin]

and we haven't made any hard decisions on it yet jattaman

[graceful urchin]

I think private match hosts can spectate down there, not sure if any have snapped pics

[vestal coyote]

Ohh

[vale mason]

thx for info Clogg, tbh I kinda want it for newbies now than for myself, im too rusty to play pro. I was browsing steam reviews and believe me, (some)people are annoyed to be killed by "robocops".

[vestal coyote]

I thought it was lore related

xD

[desert valley]

Hope that the dev team is doing alright.

[vestal coyote]

Logoctopus do you know?

[graceful urchin]

we're alive 🫡

last week I survived the flu going around lol, it is BAD

(sorry getting off topic)

[desert valley]

Hope ya get better. Still though, game is kind of the same after a several year hiatus. Except the whole expansion, BD, and SvR.

And a few more places

The game is pretty good though.

Just that people are getting way too experienced for newcomers.

[soft needle]

Yes, that flu is bad. All the best with your recovery.

I did not get the impression that people are more experienced than they previously were.

That statement did get me thinking about something, though.

[vale mason]

there are people that play this game daily, and well, you can't fool physics - 6 years ago it was impossible to have 6 years veterans

EU server was known to have more hardcore players in particular

when EU died those could go to NA

[soft needle]

It's a little off-brand... but what if players could peace out before the end of a match (not a win - not a "loss" - but not a win)? This might be an option for less skilled players who don't like hitting the grindstone. 🤔 It's kind of like extracting early in an extraction shooter.

[vale mason]

they might kiss the barrel and shoot it if they fancy that

jokes aside, what do you mean?

i never played extraction shooter so im not experienced

[soft needle]

What I mean. Players load into a match. There are several opportunities to get tunnel-smuggled out, if that's something that a player prefers.

[wispy pumice]

I wanted to make a dedicated thread about this topic, but since you're here. Also, yea the flu stinks! I'm happy you were able to get through it.

I am not going to mince words here. This community will surely die if you don't build out a ranked mode, or some kind of quest and challenge agnostic gamemode (i.e., the mode disables using the BR/LTM game as a way to grind for quest/challenge completion).

It will die for two reasons. First, the quests will eventually dwindle. And second, the players will be divided, pro players always getting upset, newbies getting upset by being the only ones doing quests and everyone else not doing them & those players slaughtering newbies all the time, and less players will play.

[vale mason]

whats the point of that?

[soft needle]

Predictive claims of game death are a little categorical.

[vale mason]

what i mean to say is: whats the difference between being extracted and just hitting "quit game"?

[soft needle]

This is what inspired the early extraction angle.

The final circle is a point where players have to face the skilled players - and the early extraction route might be one way to smooth over the friction that this could pose without multiple instances and playerbase splitting.

[soft needle]

Not losing progress, for one thing. Also a sense of 'completing' the match.

[vale mason]

can you give me examples of games that do that?

[wispy pumice]

normally I would agree with you, but there are so many players who came back here after being away and they are the ones who are the most likely to quit forever once quests are up. this is the perfect chance to take action

[soft needle]

In a royale? I don't believe it has been done.

[vale mason]

also, hmm, people could get obsessed with statistics, trying to get extracted right before they die. i wonder how that would work

[soft needle]

It takes time to take action. Those players who came back for quests may come back again with a next significant update.

[tardy quartz]

Knowing there's an interest in ranked mode or with other features is always helpful, but this is a bit of an extreme as the game has been around since 2018. Ranked won't solve the skill gap problem on its own since that basically operates under the assumption that people who are good at the game will want to play ranked all the time, which likely wouldn't be the case. Bit of a nuanced problem and not one with a clear solution like just adding ranked, SBMM (that's a whole can of worms itself), etc.

[desert valley]

Maybe a progression system for people who pour hours upon hours into the game, the hard-core players. Maybe a post progression system for battle passes. Another is a sort of grand tournament for competitive players that occurs occasionally in a regular schedule.

[tardy quartz]

All for good discussion and more thoughts, but we should refrain from going "your game will die unless you do this thing" at a developer in an active conversation

[vale mason]

exactly, some people just want to kill newbies. but some players already took stuff in their own hands and sit in some shady discord third party servers, might as well bring them back to official modes

shady as in, sometimes not family friendly lol

[near anvil]

currently typing a dissertation on the new update...
but for the SBMM idea... I cant imagine the queue times for that.

[vale mason]

(speaking from experience as a guy that hunted those discord servers)

(and its a pain)

[wispy pumice]

I understand.

I am merely expressing what I fear in the back of my head. But yeah, making aggressive pushes toward more big updates is bad for everyone. I just don't know exactly how long people will stick around, though.

In my opinion, I think just a victory-island exslusive thing would be totally fine. Like, a private MM that can bar entry to games based on how many days since the last win... number of wins lately, I think that would be the fairest and least intrusive method.

[soft needle]

Progression is good - so long as it's not a grind treadmill. Mentioning this as grind progression tends to not be enjoyed by the same people who propose such progression.

Also a variant of 'games should respect the time of the players'.

[desert valley]

True, you gotta make it enjoyable and worth the time.

[vale mason]

the problem is more nuanced than "lets do ranked" given the nature and scope of SAR. but they are really nuanced suggestions that people worked on in both feedback and forum.

that were really popular

[near anvil]

I removed it from my thoughts of the new update because it was a point of contention among my friends but this is a complaint of mine with some of the SAW quests.

[soft needle]

Yes, a couple of quests do qualify as potential or actual time sinks. Some things are better understood with hindsight.

[wispy pumice]

i should point out that events and tournaments that happen on specific times of the week are usually the best way to get people in general... it's also the most likely to get people that are there to play, instead of just mindless quest grinding

and are also the easiest to moderate, technically

[desert valley]

Super tournament as a mode only during a specific day on a week.

[wispy pumice]

then the community will always be around no matter what

[soft needle]

What would keep them around, no matter what?

[vale mason]

not the best way, as many people aren't on discord

[wispy pumice]

oh, I mean, as an exclusive feature in the game itself

completely in-house

[vale mason]

the solution would be easy to just add more tournaments here on discord, but i don't think thats what people that propose many solutions had in mind

for those that want the pros to.... go somewhere

[desert valley]

Some people don't have discord too.

[soft needle]

Okay, so if I understand correctly, a mode slot that shows up at specific intervals, which are linked to ranking.

Discord sounds optional for this.

[wispy pumice]

exactly.

[soft needle]

Okay. As a quick aside are you familiar with 🦀 ?

[wispy pumice]

and because it's an isolated server hosting the event most likely the stats / rank are much easier to make changes to each week between events

[vale mason]

you mean crab running around with guns?

[soft needle]

No - an opt-in ranked mode that doesn't separate the player base.

[vale mason]

what does it ahve to do with crabs?

[soft needle]

Theming - the secret society of the super crusty.

But anyway. That's a mild tangent.

[desert valley]

An opt in mode will also lead into pros crushing newcomers on the regular.

[soft needle]

Not any more than at present. They would gain nothing, competitively speaking.

(should have linked it - #1365042611018137700 message)

But anyway, SAR doesn't have to do what all other BRs do. Perhaps even less so when being criticised for being less original (which probably hurts).

[wispy pumice]

Focus less on the ranked for now and just focus on building a new tradition in the community, in-house, where players regardless of skill will have the option of just playing on the once per week.

However, if you think the event should really just be like ranks - to go based on mario kart terms, 100cc could be newbies, 150cc could be people who had access to victory island in the last week, and 200cc could be people who currently have access to victory island.

[soft needle]

Victory Island access does pose a bit of an issue in assessing BD and SvR main players.

[wispy pumice]

i don't know if that really matters

i couldn't say

"not my rodeo"

[soft needle]

An overall ranked 'elo' rating based on 1v1 interactions is potentially cleaner even if various 1v1 interactions will be discarded as tainted.

(due to interference)

[wispy pumice]

well regardless, i would think the metric would have to be automated because you'd ideally want to have a certain distribution

[desert valley]

Elitism is a way of toxicity to fester as well though, kinda dislike 'Elo' ratings in general. Maybe a board or statue that shows the previous winner(s?) of last week? Victory Island is already good for new players when they finally get that victory after all. Dislike these ideas here tbh

[wispy pumice]

a distribution that people don't know about

and only pixile knows

[soft needle]

I mean... this is a game that has (semi-meaningless) gems and level counts. Why would you consider Elo to be elitist in nature?

[wispy pumice]

it's not that

ppl talk

they will talk about anything that seems like a reason to feel better

it could be a totally fake number

it's silly but it's just that kinda thing

[soft needle]

The fisk situation has also taught that any information that can be garnered can be put into a list.

[wispy pumice]

heh

well yea that's sorta what i mean, yea

[soft needle]

A leader board of any sort would be similar. As is the point of ranked. It's kind of in the name. ^_^

[wispy pumice]

as much as i hated counterstrike back in the day... they were smart to keep elo hidden... the rank system was still garbage IMHO haha, but... that decision made it so nobody talks about ELO in cs

[soft needle]

Elo being hidden is a fine way to obfuscate any issues with the ranking system.

[desert valley]

I'm just fearful of a comp or ranking of sort. But at the same time, people as I said before, are getting way too experienced.

[soft needle]

However, perhaps there are different ways to go about 'revealing' elo. Things like only showing one's own elo, but not showing that of others, so it's less leaderboardey.

Of course, there is also the option of doing what other games do - with rank brackets (your bronzes, silvers, golds, etc.)

[wispy pumice]

if every person on this thread is in agreement that they would trust pixile to make a wise choice on whatever method they choose, then is everyone in agreement as well that this doesn't have to be available 24/7 and can be offered only at certain times?

as long as the feature is made available to you.

or would you HAVE to have it available 24/7 in order to be satisfied

[soft needle]

I trust that it is in Pixile's best interest to make the best decisions that they can in the circumstances presented to them. They have come this far - and the IP has strong potential.

As for ranked - I do believe that the complaints aren't primarily about the lack of a ranked mode, but rather the points of friction that were introduced with the latest major update (which uprooted the entire old UI in place of a new one), the long time it took to deliver this update, and perceived communication shortfalls.

As such addressing the friction points should probably take precedence. Ranked may be explored later.

[wispy pumice]

I just think that, from a solutions architect standpoint, if it's a temporary feature that people can play at certain times of the week, specially designated for each region - could even be voted on in some way with a weekly poll, maybe - then... the solution Pixile will choose will be the least intrusive, won't change a single thing about the game as-is, but still makes people happy for a short period of time each week. It also gives the team time in between sessions to listen to player feedback as it gets further refined. That's where I stand on this, solutions wise.

If that is fine, then I will diverge this conversation topic and I will use that as a basis for a feedback thread that everyone can opine on in their own time.

And that's where I leave on this topic for tonight

[soft needle]

Okay. This may be a little grating, but each of us is representative of our own individual views, and are not collectively representative of portions of the player base or even portions of the participant members within this thread. I like to think that we are all seeking solutions to a perceived problem, and our solution-crafting and proposals offer options which may or may not be picked up.

With that being said, by all means, when you have time and energy to do so, solidify your views on this within a dedicated thread. That allows for dedicated discussion on the matter, and that will hopefully provide a more steady case for the course of direction which you are proposing.

In the meantime I do think that it is important to fix the new foundation before adding layers of features on top. A shiny sticker on a cracked tank might halt a leak but it diminishes the visibility of a structural issue. Yes, calling ranked a shiny sticker is reductive, and you have my apology on that - but it is an added feature upon a platform the complaints of which weren't about the lack of that feature but are instead about the perceived shortfalls of recent changes.

Not saying there isn't a case for ranked/competitive but I do believe in a different priority.

[wispy pumice]

I was perhaps a bit too implicit with my phrasing, but that's exactly why am offering up what I have in mind

I'm just going to write it up now

[soft needle]

No worries. It is natural to want to be heard. I look forward to hearing more about what you have in mind in your new thread. ^_^ I'll get back to it some point after dawn.

[wispy pumice]

I made the thread. Anyway, one thing I wanted to say here is it's kinda annoying that SvR gets less DNA than it once did... makes it feel a bit worse for me cuz I used to grind DNA on it

it's a small pet peeve though

[deft tusk]

thank you! i really appreciate your response. i don't blame you at all for the async approach and truthfully you're still more active than most staff via the bugs channel, i mainly brought your name up because i have seen you active in channels before.

i have the mindset that it's healthy for the community when there are staff members who are actively interacting with players somewhat regularly, especially for an indie studio. i believe it helps with trust and transparency, and it definitely keeps some players much more invested in the game when they are reminded that the devs are human and care about their community!

with that being said, i would never expect every single member of pixile to actively engage in conversations daily, and the fact that you and logan responded to this thread at all is proof that you guys are still listening which is awesome!

as for the tanks, my opinion on them is still indifferent, but i understand taking risks can be worth it sometimes. i was just hoping that the next additions to br would be less controversial and more appealing to everyone considering a large portion of players expressed that they didn't like the idea.

i might be biased here because i haven't really ever seen anything permanently added to br since i started playing in summer 2024 and tanks just felt like a bit of a letdown. but i know SAW was the focus of this update so i shouldn't have expected much for br in the first place. i just hope that next time something controversial gets added, its reception isn't as overwhelmingly negative as tanks were.

thank you again for your reply! you and logan are awesome for taking time to respond here and i really appreciate it!

[vale mason]

i think reception of tanks idea was overwhelmingly negative before they were added. right now its more mixed

this needs some testing and time. and many people just dont play BR anymore

[soft needle]

It posed a bit of a culture shock - and it will take more time to see how and if the player base adapts to their inclusion.

[deft tusk]

yeah i would say this is accurate

[shadow sedge]

Because the ping is too high, I can only play on the EU server. Bare in mind, I've been playing SAR since early access, I love the game but the high ping makes me rage quit and then not play for months and months. I've been begging for a South African server for years now. No, there isn't one, the current SA is another region. I can't use certain guns like the sniper and the hunting rifle because I'm too slow and thus I can't reach those milestones. It's extremely frustrating!!! It looks like people are fast forwarded and I'm in slow motion. And it feels horrible. It's very difficult and frustrating to try play like that.

[soft needle]

This is one reason why there really should be more support for a client-side (v AI) experience. Perhaps even a P2P connection option for private matches set up in unsupported regions. 🤔

[shadow sedge]

Also, I can't find the black pearl.

[soft needle]

That's a quest that you are best not focusing on. It'll happen when it happens. Is it a quest?

If it's a quest then that's more than half of the problem.

[shadow sedge]

Yeah I know 😂 but that's just a small toss of a hat in the ring. I will find it.

[soft needle]

Actually, it might be interesting if certain quests only trigger if you have a thing in your inventory. 🤔 ||"Oh! You have black twinkley! Gibs me black shiny?"||

[shadow sedge]

Yeah I agree. Or if you have all the certain breeds of an animal or something like that. Same with those emotes that you have to buy with saw tickets. They should also make those available as drops because it's not fair
We used to get emotes as drops and/or if you reach a certain milestone. That would be great to have with these new rarer emotes.

[true steeple]

Since the SAW update, we saw an increasing amount of players during the first days of the update. Now the game is back to the numbers before the update. I still love the game, but I don't play it a lot like I did before. First of all, even before SAW update released, I was scared that having a permanent social hub will split more the playerbase. It would be fine if the game had a reasonable amount of players, but that's not the case. We got around ~40 players before the update. When SAW was released, we kept that numbers for a few days until now, the BR lobbies are just empty, around 20 people at maximum during NA peak time. People prefers hanging out in the social hub than playing what the game was supposed to be: a battle royale. It's even worse since Bwoking and SvR are now permanent modes. The respawn tanks are useless in my opinion, a game of BR is around 7 minutes, which is really low. Why adding a respawn system in a such fast game? I can only see it to satisfy people that die first minute of the game. The only servers that have people anyway are now #🏆events. It's so sad to see the current state.

[soft needle]

It could be that a contributing factor might be the longest of the quests that require being in SAW (mostly the clams).

In theory what should happen is that players should be able to reset following matches (and participation in SAW is preferable to logging out). Perhaps something that is missing from this update is the ability for players to chain queue multiple matches back-to-back without manually needing to requeue. So there is always that conscious choice to re-queue.

[true steeple]

Also the fact that everytime you need to do something you need to be in the social hub is annoying. I use a VPN to lower my ping on NA servers and everytime I find a match and it cannot connect I am sent back to the main menu, I need to reconnect to SAW hub and research a match again. The older system where the BR lobby was always open was better because you could reconnect to the lobby since it didnt started

[soft needle]

Can definitely see how that would be annoying.

[deft tusk]

this seems like a rare case and pixile might not be aware of this, but it's a good point. i know @signal walrus and a few other non-NA players have to rely on vpn for good connection in NA servers

the end goal would be to make every region as active as NA, but that's not something realistic with the current state of the game, so accounting for player ping issues outside of NA is a good idea

[vale mason]

I would also add, that pre-update state of average numbers in peak hours, was thanks to draining players from EU for example. That server got hit by lack of players, and expats helped save the NA. Many people forget about EU but we exist also.

[wispy pumice]

I think on a universal scale EU players are far more used to going to NA-based servers than the other way around

[vale mason]

in times of good players numbers, there was no need for that. but that was years ago and not recently before update

anyway, NA is experiencing now that EU had to endure a bit earlier

[wispy pumice]

Is there an easy way to scroll all the way to the top? haha

oh I literally just found it

oh, it doesn't go all the way to the top, it seems to go just below the top though so that's just as fine

[bitter belfry]

Yeah, discord suck, lol

[wispy pumice]

Anyway, I sincerely apologise for when I explicitly wrote yesterday that "the community will surely die [if...]". I really don't want to be someone that creates mass panic and hysteria over the plethora of comments, complaints, etc. over this update.

When CorgiCam played SAR on launch day and I was able to play with him and his viewers on my potato laptop, that was an unbelivable moment. I do genuinely feel bad that variety streamers like him were so quick to stop playing the game though. But, the experience that I had overall is irreplaceable.

I know that, with time and effort, there will be more of that to come. It is not just because I'm seeing such great threads like these, but because I believe in Pixile - I have nothing but respect for the team that's behind this game, and I fully stand by them. Even if there is still stuff to resolve, I am passionate about this game.

[signal walrus]

Bonus points i need a vpn to play in my closer region (AS) too

[cunning apex]

Well, I like the game, and while I feel that way, I can't deny that the update left something to be desired, and these are my main points:

• Social center: Yes, the idea of adding a social aspect is good, but that's only if the game had a larger player base, because, as @true steeple said, we are seeing a drop of more than 50% in Battle Royale Mode. We have 50 people in the lobby, but only 10-20 are in the queue. For SAR, a game focused on BR, this causes a huge division among players, drastically reducing the number of players in the main mode.
  -# Curious fact: I'm someone who comes from the SA server. Before, the place was a desert with a few huts, but now there's only sand left.

• Waiting queue: I particularly liked the way we could start any game mode, I could switch between solos, duos, squads, and also servers to reduce waiting time, finding a lobby that was just seconds away from starting. Now, I can't be sure which one to choose, I don't know which one takes less time. With long waits, you lose the time of an entire match because of the amount of time you accumulated while playing 2 or 3 matches previously. We don't always have time to wait.

• Game modes: This reinforces my first point. Now SvR and Bwoking are permanent, but not only that, we now have the hamster ball race mode. Now there are three options that further divide the number of players for all modes, where bots dominate in their greater number, something that is very negative when we realize it.

• “Empty” effect: We know that there was an increase in players in the update, it even appeared featured on Steam, but the novelty didn't last long. Soon after seeing the active player graph today, the drop was overwhelming. We're back to the same numbers as before, but we have an even worse scenario. With so much division of players across all modes, we end up feeling that the lobbies are emptying, demotivating the vast majority of players who want to play WITH PLAYERS. As a result, people stop playing, turning the place into a small desert and causing this feeling due to the lack of players we used to have.

I love the game, and I don't say this in a negative way. On the contrary, we as a community want the game to be more and more alive. We hope that these problems will be solved and that players will return, filling the lobbies and seeing the game grow again.
Communication between developers and the community is key to this. It's not an easy task, but it is possible.
Our wish is for SAR to return!

[vale mason]

a really good feedback and I didn't realize this was the situation before update. I never played peak hours on NA, since i visited it rarely and it's late night in my country when peak is in NA

on EU it was like it is now on NA

[north wadi]

Because I expected this update to be a new addition to the game instead of one that entirely replaced a lot of the menu options and locked much lower quality menus behind having to load into the game and physically go to a place

[wispy pumice]

somewehat disappointed by how unreliable it is to actually have a teammate in duos without partying up

i guess it's just that, autofill has to be turned on (which I don't really remember disabling..), but even when it's on it isn't totally foolproof

[wispy pumice]

For anything related to ranked mode going forward, since I'm sure it will be mentioned again and again - I made a thread for that discussion.

On the off chance that the intent that I was trying to bring yesterday still unclear - I fully recognize that I can be a very poor communicator - I frankly don't care what Pixile does to make the mode, only that it's done with the best interest of both the developers and the community in mind.

I know this thread is giant, and it just feels better for discussion to be diverted to there. Others are doing the same, and I wonder if we should bookmark a specific post here that can point everyone to the appropriate threads for every topic, to make things a bit more guided.

[vale mason]

there can be multiple ranked threads as well. i don't think that hogging everything into one thread is the best one way to do it, especially since OP usually presents some solutions in the original post and many people have different ideas

[vale mason]

a specific post, wouldnt work, as there is problem that people don't even read pinned ones, let alone those in 500+ posts threads. it's just that discord forum is more messy than normal forum

still, i will try to make some solution

[wispy pumice]

I would have mentioned this sooner but, with my ADHD and knack for being unorganized, I waited until I was about to sleep for work in the morning, lol.

I am sure that Pixile has some internalized method of keeping track of it. But, I wouldn't expect them to summarize everyone's points, and frankly neither should we/you/I.

I am merely thinking that less duplication of ideas is the best approach, and puts a greater emphasis on people checkmarking thread OPs. The more voices, the better!

As I was waking up, I was thinking maybe there could be a new tag, like SAW Update perhaps... I guess. But, IDK.

Anyway, I gotta go to work now. Be sure to have an awesome day if you can! I'll see you all around. 🙂

[vale mason]

i tried to make one gigathread. will it work,we will see. it's defnitely an attempt to keep it tidy, i think. If there will be more ranked discussions here, I will send them there.

Ofcourse, i still encourage to give skill gap/or lack of ranked as one of the reasons in this thread here if that is case. But I would encourage to discuss solutions in the other thread.

[vale mason]

Also, I'm sorry that I basically doubled your approach by making another thread, but I think that a more "agnostic" thread is in order, in both philosophy and solution to have general scope.

[wispy pumice]

Alright, sounds good

[final monolith]

Matches have too many bots and most of hamster balls race matches are just only me solo race because half of active players is staying in hub.

I don't know what this game suppose to be like its name, battle royale players are now less than players prefer to stay in hub.

Just change the game name to Super Animal World I guess

[signal walrus]

For me anytime a game provides a credits screen it clicks to me i am done. I'm sure they'll be more post game activities but as of now my only quests are perfect all bug and fish catches and find a 1 in 10000 black pearl.

I'm personally not playing because im playing palworld. Nothing wrong with sar nor is there for not playing. I just want to play different games.

I still love the battleroyale I tend to jump on when friends ask but as of late radio silence. Solos starting circle I admit feels slow? Im sure it was increased for respawn tanks and some quests but ive played a match that had 10 people left before the first circle closed

As an Aussie the times I play i would consider off peak for both NA and AS. Bot lobbies arent something im new to. I personally love the direction of animal world but I wish there were more rewards for expanding inventory getting better fishing rod or different designs from quests. Having unique quests within the hub beyond a fetch quest. I feel quests are just simple tasks to do within the royale, im fine with it ofcouse I understand players need to be directed into different modes to fill them up which was SO FUN! Week 1, 2 and even 3 was so crazy! Having some players in browking being chickens to infect, others trying desperately to survive for a dif quest. It was heckin fun! I think pixile needs to find avenues to have that ongoing feeling throughout the modes

I know something players disliked, me included was handing in a quest a day after you do the task to be hit with "come back tomorrow" I know I handed in the quest I gotta wait but a small error of not talking to an npc before I slept now turned into an extra day of waiting

Its quite the demotivator to jump back into a game after being absent for a day or two to be told hey lil bro come back again another day

[vale mason]

I think this could change once everyone do their quests.

[halcyon lily]

This, and also for quests like ||Dr. Gooddog's club process that revolves around collecting breeds||. It's implemented as if it assumes every player doesn't already have 300+ breeds, therefore if you do, if you have to wait around 6 days (Feel free to fact-check this, unsure on the exact amount) to claim each little task.

I know it was mostly designed for new players in mind, but what about us who have been playing for years now?

[vale mason]

quests timegating is just bad. i know it can be explained as" we dont want kids to play too much", but frankly i don't buy such explanations

imho, it was made to keep players longer, but it can only work for month tops

it's really disruptive if someone has planned 2 hours to spend a cozy evening, play SAR as an adventure game, only to be kicked out after 20 minutes

[halcyon lily]

I agree with this. I know most of the playerbase are children, but the adults who play this game don't need their screentime limited as most of them can manage that on their own accord. My second reasoning is slightly more controversial, but: It's up to the parents to limit playtime for their children, not SAR.
Kids staying up late to play the game shouldn't have to impact the entire community, that's another reason why I'm skeptical on the explanation given.

[lone rover]

I agree, I wish more people would acknowledge the fact that, to an extent, players (and/or those players' guardians, if applicable) have to be given some degree of responsibility in how they engage with the game and whether they go overboard in the process. The game can't proof against every possible "unhealthy" way to play it without just making the experience unpleasant for everyone else.

[signal walrus]

I think the time gates are fine when a process is required by an npc say rabitta for instance when developing the film.

Quack shot shouldnt require a day waits as well, home dude is teaching the players about weapons. If they want to keep him time gated remove half or more imo so people can quickly wrap up getting to know each weapon

[vale mason]

just seen rabbita annoyance thread #1457083925531988173 message

[lone rover]

I don't inherently mind the Rabbita timegate, although I do wish it was made clear earlier in the main quest that ||it's a requirement later down the line.||

[signal walrus]

I imagine getting told about hey buddy these main quests need to be done can be annoying if u get to the later portion that requires it.

I believe she is marked as main quest atleast. Her time gates imo still make sense as well film do be developing. Perhaps allowing us to use carl coins to speed up the process of certaib time gates

Adjusting tutorial presence ones would be nice still.

Not the reason I dont play but certainly a contributing factor for some potentially

[vale mason]

She is marked as main quest, that is true. One can calculate from this she is important.

If they wished to do timegating for roleplay, this could take 30 minutes, not whole day.

Using carl coins to bribe every NPC would be funny but not very immersive.

[lone rover]

It is marked, true. It's only my experience but I'm unsure how much it helps really. Her quests feel so... side-quest-y, for lack of a better word, that I genuinely didn't notice they were marked as main. But still, fair point.

[vale mason]

its sometimes hard to say which are main quest ones without looking, some are obvious like crate smashing

[halcyon lily]

Exactly.
I also want to note another answer I have to a counterargument I saw a bit ago: If people rush, then complain about how lacking the story was (Without any proper criticisms), that's on the player, not the game.
If people want to rush, by all means, let them do so. I've seen quite a few completionists (Such as myself) who would rather get things done fast than wait.
Timegates should be available as an option for those who know they will rush and want to limit themselves willingly/complete things at their own pace, but the option to opt-out of the timegates should also be available for those who dislike them and feel like they're unnecessary. A toggle for this shouldn't be too hard to implement, but other options could be suggested too.

(My bad if this is off-topic by the way. As mentioned way earlier, part of my reason for disliking the update is how timegated quests are implemented with zero way to disable them, so I feel like this is at least semi-relevant to mention.)

About Rabbita: Those are main story quests? Completely forgot about that actually.

[vale mason]

what quality of the story has to do with rushing or not rushing? either it's good or not

[halcyon lily]

Worded it weirdly on my end, I meant those who would rush then complain about the lack of content/short story, even though they, you know, rushed.

[vale mason]

ah, ook

[drifting fox]

I'm pretty much convinced the reason why royale is empty is because of the queuing system now. There isn't much SH activities you can do while queuing: you can't really get into fishing or bug catching in 2 mins and if you do quests your dialogue can get interrupted. It is just much easier to click "join match" and go into a game immediately. Therefore I think the game should revert to "queue and put you in match lobby waiting for other players". Perhaps have some small activities on the tarmac for fun fun (players always liked when mods spawned foxballs)

[lone rover]

I think this'd be a solid addition although part of me would want it to be optional. Personally I do like catching a few more fish and bugs during queue and don't mind if I'm interrupted by a match coming up, but being able to hang out in the pre-march lobby for longer like pre-SAW would be fun too.

[deft tusk]

me and my friends have wanted this since day 1, i don't understand why queueing doesn't immediately put you in a new lobby. that would be way more similar to how the game was before the update, letting you interact with the players you're about to fight against instead of just giving you < 20 seconds to see everyone in the match

i guess they wanted to give players time to do overworld things while queuing but i think that's kind of forcing players to be in the overworld, if they really wanted to spend an extra 2 minutes in the overworld then thats their choice

and like you said, they can still include things to do after queuing up so it isnt just sitting around half the time for 1-2 minutes doing nothing while players load in

[drifting fox]

Yeah the SH stuff are more like downtime activities

when you're queuing its not downtime anymore

[gray gyro]

since super animal world came out i played for about a week before i got mostly tired of it, main culprits to this was somewhat the gun balancing (im looking at you, AK) making the skill ceiling tragically low and it made the royales hard to play for awhile in general, basically every one of these quests are just tedious junk that required me to have a friend stand still for me to kill them on a zipline or whatnot, or just use bots, doing them with real players legititmately is only sometimes a possible feat and if it is it would take you an eternity to get the most specific occurence of all time to happen in the royale for a quest that gives you like 500xp 💀

And then theres the main lobby quests (black pearl) that drive completionists like me to the brink of insanity with unrealistic drop chance that requires you to farm for like 40 hours straight if your lucky, also did i mention farming for them gives you not benefit so any clam you open gives you no sort of progress to getting the pearl at all, once i got the black pearl i basically just handed in the towel and gave up the game cause theres literally no benefit to playing if theres no quests you can complete, ive played like 250 solo matches in that time, solo play being the only mode ive used cause theres like 4 quests that require you to be in a squad, like half of the beaver quests (explode someone with bomb barrel, kill someone on a permanant zipline) are ridiculous and push away new players, literally every single emu quest on the board, the unfun and dried out ice skating quests both from thomas and the penguin that require you to walk on ice for several miles (in royale too) is just unoriginal and unfun, they defy the basic rules that the quest should obey, walking around with the speedy and giant emu, sounds normal right? no, you have to run ten miles with the super rare emu and the quests takes you like 3 days, how are we supposed to get actual non-bot kills with the chonk emu or knife emu anyway?/1

2/ the problem with emu quests is how many miles/kills you have to get, like make it 2 or something, be realistic, a good example of what the quests are supposed to be? that eagle general guys quests are great, i dont have to queue like 20 solo games to farm them, im not grinding them in the lobby, it comes naturally within a few games, when im not even thinking about doing the quest even, getting kills with certain guns from the duck quests? amazing. it teaches new players about the guns, they arent tedious or unoriginal, its perfect all around with those two npcs, its what questing in this game SHOULDVE been. thats right, the fishing and bug catching quests, what makes me mad about those two? is that you have to submit a NEW fish or bug of whatever they are asking, same with the tiger guy, what if i already caught a perfect legendary fish or perfect fish/bug that they ask for and i donated it like any normal train of thought would lead me to do, aaaand looks like i gotta do it again, its just silly isnt it? make the donated fishes and bugs count for the quests sometimes, and those questlines i could consider perfect. TLDR for the lizard quests, good overall encourage new players to learn the map, original overall, svr quests are tedious and grindey, i like the premise of them but they require too much of what they ask, similar to emus.

3/
anyways thats basically it, I dont mean to hate on the game by any means cause this new update really saved it overall, i like the new additions, the quests give me a new reason to keep playing instead of playing just to level up, i like the new map being a good social hub where you can have gameplay outside of the royales so much, i see people complain about not having the old menu cause it takes a little bit more time to get to shops or navigate through the menu but its much better than the previous watered down design where every little thing in the game is just there in one click, i believe its made the game so much more replayable overall, just that some of the quests are tedious rather than relaxing and it ruins alot of peoples experiences after a week of playing

Also nerf the ak pls

[soft needle]

A lot of good feedback.

Interesting note about the AK - As a matter of curiosity, what are your favoured weapon types (which you'd typically be facing AK with)?

A good point about Ronald. Should probably be a small reminder that somebody might like to see it, while the quest is active, since it takes 'ages' to find 'a' perfect legendary.

That applies to a lot of the collect quests. They require a conscious traversal and effort to go from place to place and do the thing and maybe collect the thingie. Black pearl should be an achievement, not a quest. That way it isn't always reminding you of it on the left (which is something that can be improved about quests in general).

Now that I think about it, I am surprised that Pixile didn't opt for recurring 'Donate a perfect legendary bug/fish' quests (until complete) so as to portion out quests better. 🤔

[vale mason]

As far as I remember, AK isn't OP. Weapons aren't balanced, but AK is OK.

For experienced players, that is. Balance is a diferent matter of different tiers.

as for SAW "saving it", I wouldn't be so sure...

[worldly fiber]

It feels like AK shuts down dodging hard though. No safe range, no predictable shots, no window of opportunity to damagelessly change movement directions, no hope of waiting out the ammo clip.

[vale mason]

with AK, you usually use sniper rifle because it's OP, or try to surprise with shotgun, that's what i do

[frigid nexus]

AK is meta in squads

[vale mason]

ah that could be the case, i rarely played squads. makes sense since it covers more area

[worldly fiber]

Assume you don't equip weapons specifically for countering AK...

(Sniper Rifles may not be found for an entire game!)

[vale mason]

those weapons aren't specifically for countering AK, they are just very good if not best

but true, you might not find them

[worldly fiber]

Even if you assume all players have shotguns by default, that makes AK devastating in open areas where they cannot be surprised

[vale mason]

if sniper rifle is not found, there are plenty of hunting rifles and magnums, which are also ok

I played lots of pro matches but people didn't use AK much

[worldly fiber]

In solos, yeah, AK might be a bit behind compared to others

[vale mason]

it is difficult to balance as there are many modes

and players with different needs

[worldly fiber]

I can't help but wonder if people steer clear of the AK because it's bad, or because they're holding on to the idea that it's bad

[vale mason]

in solos, newbies usually complain about AK and laser something

because fighting it requires excelence in mobility

[worldly fiber]

I don't think perfection in mobility cuts it if Murphy's Law says no

[vale mason]

but i never heard pros saying "nerf AK" ever

then again I played long time ago so my memory is blurry

[worldly fiber]

My experience could be biased, because of my unorthodox playstyles, but as a lot of my playstyles involve using melee, it still strikes me as odd that shotgun users are a lesser threat than AK users

[vale mason]

i knew a guy that used some sort of shotgun trick bug and it was very annoying. not many people do that though

he used jag exclusively and was very, very good

[worldly fiber]

Shotgun trick?

[vale mason]

2 shots to kill, but somehow faster than shot delay would allow

he said its a bug, but nobody cares to patch it

[worldly fiber]

That would be concerning... but I reckon that AK still has a greater fire rate, which still makes AK shots more difficult to weave through

[vale mason]

there are some servers with guys like Ruki, it would make sense to ask them what is meta for solo

I used to play that, they seem very good

I'm not an expert here but overall I almost never get killed by AK, it's mostly sniper/switch to melee users

in open spaces

[worldly fiber]

On the other hand, for me it usually feels like snipers are of least concern to me; its devastating power doesn't mean anything if they can't hit me

[vale mason]

good feeback imho about some of the quests. btw if they wouldnt be annoying, and you would complete all of the quests, would you still play the game?

[vale mason]

And to join in with Pathforger question, what weapon do you use against AK?

[lone rover]

I don't find the AK too OP. It's solid if you catch someone at mid-range in the open, but if you close the distance many other guns can out-damage it.

[gray gyro]

whenever i find someone with an ak, i typically just run away and heal myself cause apparently ive gotten hit by 3 bullets in the time that i could react to an ambush and lost all my armor and most of my health, and then try to flank them with sp or dp, sometimes i also just run away cause the weapons that counter that thing are rare

problem with that thing and what sets it apart from the m16 is the fact you can get a rare ak in your first land super fast, its probably the most common thing out there in terms of rarity, it can 3 shot a full health bar, its automatic and lets you move decently fast, it only takes you like 5 seconds to smite someone with level 3 armor if they dont get away immediately or they are out in the open, i basically never find the m16 in normal matches and its rare in the mole crates too so the simple rarity of the m16 in my opinion makes it fine, but the ak is ridiculous, it has ammo to last the whole match and not run out plus its a common ammo type, the reload speed is fast enough ifyou even run out of bullets in the first place since it takes 10/20 to kill someone in an average fight

plus the bullet spread is insanely tight, you always hit your target using it, the smg and thomas gun at least require you to be close up to an enemy to melt an enemy the same way the ak does, but the ak does close and long range, you cant really counter it because you just get melted as soon as you enter an ak users point of view so you have no time to retaliate on your own so its run away or just hope to god that you can juke out their bullets to force a reload and kill them then, but what sense does that make when you can just switch to a second gun, a second ak even.

[unreal jetty]

i dont think the ak is very overpowered

its a favorite crutch gun for newer players learning the game and is overall pretty solid

excels in recoil and territory control

but there are equivalent and better options most of the time

some people complain aboht the m16 being ridiculously easy to control recoil but im unsure about that

[gray gyro]

ive already completed most of the questlines, save for a the eagle general, the mouse girl who wants me to party up with people to do random stuff which nobody ever wants to help you with, and you certainly wont get it naturally so i just gave up on those quests, i just recently played for a day and finished the sloth and thomas, but i complain about these quests even though i completed them is because i could hardly do any of them legitimately, i finished the svr questline using the SA servers to fight easy bots for example, same for emus and stuff, also the really specific ones like the bomb barrel, i used it for banana slip kills, zipline kills everything in the book but ijust wonder how are we supposed to do this against real players? i know damn well they didint intend me to just use the cheese server everytime... and even with the cheese server there comes quests like the ice skating that are tedious and unoriginal, im just sitting there holding two keys down, what kind of quest is that???? oh and now i have to get a friend to willingly go through the ice skating agony with me? its just so awful....

[unreal jetty]

thomas, three toed jack, and claire all have pretty terrible quests

[gray gyro]

i forgot about the bwoking dead quests

those are all abysmal, similar experience to the svr ones but just a little less annoying

[gray gyro]

The thing is in every game i play theres like 3 things i die to that barely fluctuates from the list:
-AK ambush
-Someone heard me while i was healing and i got melted by a silenced pistol or smg
-Sweaty greace goblin bcg users (but its pretty rare to find in solos, plenty in duos+squads)

[unreal jetty]

sweaty grease goblin bcg users lmao

not entirely unjustified

[gray gyro]

reason i dont complain about the bcg being nerfed is cause you cant just nerf the gun cause some people are way too good with it, i almost never pick it up because the mouse inputs and holding down confuses me so much so i can tell theres skill behind that weapon

[unreal jetty]

ehh

theres some skill ceiling but if you learn the basic idea you already have most of the potential of the gun

[true steeple]

The gun is kinda bugged, AOE doing no damage, back shot exploding but no damage too, charging egg delay with ping and so on

This is probably linked to ping, but sometimes it's hard to tell

[unreal jetty]

has bcg been blanking (shots hitting but not dealing damage usually due to connection) more after the servers moved?

in the past i remember the bcg almost never blanked, it was more likely the spray weapons and sometimes shotguns/single shot guns

[true steeple]

I can't tell since I don't use BCG at all. But if problems are related to ping it could be if you are further away than before.

[signal walrus]

Bcg is cool but I wish shots didnt prematurely miss due to ping.

Its become engrained to my play style to aim left or right of the actual target to ensure it hits. Otherwise even on full charges it just fails early

OP gun balanced on inconsistent behavior

[soft needle]

As others have stated, the AK has solid performance and is easy to use but does offer counterplay to other kinds of weapons.

You mention using dual or silenced pistols and they are both respectable weapons - but they (especially duals) will lose out to AK in any mid-to-long range engagement 'and' both kinds of pistols are not automatic. SMG has an easier time of exhibiting its greater effectiveness at short range due to its fire-rate.

AK is solid and is about as solid a non-epic/legendary weapon as one can find - depending on one's playstyle preference. It will perform 'well-to-decently' at all ranges.

[vale mason]

AK debate is as old SAR itself, almost. I have a feeling that some people just don't want to adapt, however, and want game adapted to them.

While some of the points about AK are justified, if someone just rushes AK with a knife or fight it mid-range and complaints....

then it's time to learn the game

[lone rover]

I wonder if part of the AK seeming OP has to do with how it's not really BAD in any situation. It can operate well in general, which can make it seem very dominant. But in practice, any specialized weapons will outperform it in their respective specialty.

[vale mason]

AK can definitely kill you any range if you are not careful. can't be said about people that are new and just picked up rifle or magnum, or try to kill you with pistols long-range

I would be fine with nerfing the weapon if enough people would vote for it and if that's a factor to really not playing the game for them

[lone rover]

That's best, I think it's fine but if that many people find it too dominant, fair enough

[vale mason]

I would be fine with lowering rounds in the magazine further if that's what some people want. Frankly this topic resurface for years, and the more players the better. Yes, it's appealing to casuals basically but what can you do

besides for squads it might be really op actually rn

[drifting fox]

at this point, whatever will make people actually play royale

[vale mason]

exactly. at this point, every little bit helps. even if it's against someones philosophy like revival tanks

[lone rover]

I can see that, respawn tanks gave me enough confidence to play squads more, I never would've otherwise most likely

So if making the AK a little less effective gets more players I can support that

[vale mason]

I don't want to post this suggestion though, let the people interested do that. If they can't bother then so be it.

[drifting fox]

i still feel too shy to ask in chat for squads

let me put a little tag above my head saying "im looking for a squad press e on me to invite uwu"

LFG tag

[lone rover]

I'd like that too

[vale mason]

you never know if it won't be too late at one point, so I would suggest to just try

[drifting fox]

social anxiety

[soft needle]

I personally think that micro buffs to non-AK weapons would be a better overall direction, especially when one considers that AK was already nerfed down 5 bullets to the current 25 clip-size.

If the AK 'were' to experience any kind of nerf then a sensitivity to bloom for full-autoing might be the way to go.

[lethal geyser]

trying to join a game after the saw update is nuts

"the game has already started"

[vale mason]

on which server?

perhaps it would be good to report it in bugs-and-tech-help

[lethal geyser]

tried both na and sa

[vale mason]

please report it here #🐛bugs-and-tech-help message

ofc, this is a good feedback on why you don't play, here as well 🙂

[vale mason]

I personally think that AK, darts, crossbow lag behind other weapons

no idea why someone would play crossbow instead of sniper, other than skill level

lower bullet speed

darts is a healer weapon so it will always kinda have a pass

I also feel that people that complain about AK complain about superite, but that is just my assumption

[lone rover]

I think superite might get a pass from more people because it's pretty inaccurate at range. it's not as good at bursting someone down unless you're closer to them

[worldly fiber]

Superite/Minigun is rough to melee down, but I feel they're fairer than AK; they have a weakness (revving) that opponents can exploit/users need to work around

[soft needle]

(I wonder how the bwoking enhancements for sluggers, rifles and bows would shift things in royale)

[worldly fiber]

Also rough to fight against in squads, particularly in my experience due to being a solo squadder back in the day; dealing with a minigun requires some mixture of prescience (identify the minigun user before they start revving) and overextension

[soft needle]

I am guessing (okay, I heard) that the respawn tanks made soloing squads harder.

[vale mason]

I don't think that weapon should be balanced around melee.

But I doubt that majority of people want to melee AK out of those that complain. They just lack skill in "normal" fights.

[worldly fiber]

Matchups against melee isn't my only grievance against AK though. Squads, too.

[vale mason]

when I played squads it was instantly our idea to collect as many AKs as possible

[lone rover]

Squads does pose the issue that you can pretty much have infinite suppressive fire if everyone has AKs

[vale mason]

but not sure if that's meta

[vale mason]

yeah that is a no brainer

Btw that is a bit related, but maybe trios would be better than squads

easier to assemble, easier to make balance that fits every mode

[worldly fiber]

as a replacement to squads, you mean?

[vale mason]

yeah, definitely not another mode that would be dead in this state

[worldly fiber]

Despite the promise of easier balance, I feel like having 1/2/4 was a better choice than 1/2/3; squads loosely caters to teams of 3, while trios does not cater to teams of 4 at all.

[lone rover]

Yeah, either way of adding trios wouldn't really be ideal... if it's added alongside squads it means even more division of the playerbase, if it's replacing squads it causes issues for both anyone who just liked 4-squads, and for anyone with a dedicated 4-person team

And as was said, a trio can play squads anyway if they really wish it, even if that's not the specific intent

[vale mason]

fair points

[signal walrus]

Ak excels at punishing those in wide open areas and those forced to rotate in one predictable area. It is punished after sufficient shots are fired causing an unpredictable bullet pattern. Players should try predicting when ak users need to reload to have a jab back. Regarding aks in range department, closing the gap with a close range weapon can offer a good standoff as the gun fails to measure up against all close ranged weapons at a spray off at point blank.

Please dont approach an ak head on approach with cover and play around things to block bullets, we all wish we were that guy from the matrix but a safer bet is to always apply cover to your game plan.

[worldly fiber]

playing around things that can block bullets is a universal strategy, not an AK-specific one...

And two AKs can counter that, too, if the cover is small enough: start firing from opposite ends and close in

[signal walrus]

And yet players still don't play around it, the meta of sar is um. Mass majority running in the open 1 percent positioning around objects as they rotate, rotating early, picking an area to defend and planning their next rotation.

[worldly fiber]

hm...

[soft needle]

Perhaps any balancing of melee AK should focus more on the capabilities of melee rather than AK.

Such as a perfect parry mechanic.

[worldly fiber]

don't worry about melee AK. Nothing should be balanced around melee

[soft needle]

Agreed but not entirely so. Melee is a weapon like any other.

[worldly fiber]

I only brought it up as a potential source of bias on my part

[worldly fiber]

...not really, it's more like a last resort weapon

[soft needle]

It's also the best mobility one can get. And doesn't use ammo.

[worldly fiber]

forcing your opponent to use melee (because their ammo clips are empty) should be a reward, not a mere change in the opponent's strategy

[lone rover]

Melee is not exactly a weapon like any other, it's the absolute final fallback when you have literally nothing else. And for one to HAVE nothing else implies that they have made some tactical errors.

[soft needle]

Fair enough.

[unreal jetty]

really interesting point actually

a very well rounded gun

[vale mason]

BR is about resources management and weapon finding. melee should never be balanced to be as good as other weapons. There are some games that do that, but this isn't "that tale"

[urban merlin]

I barely play now because of the lack of players and the new NA servers.

even when the game had 1000 players the BR lobbies would have 12 players, most of them are in the social hub nowadays, leaving the BR modes feel desolate. Some friends from my group are quitting the game just from this, no point for them to play bot games.

And if that wasn't enough, the new servers made it even worse, I legit had moments where I cannot tell if it's my connection having a stroke, or if the servers are genuinely struggling.

Not saying the social hub is bad, but rather, that the social aspect recieved plenty of love and focus, while BR only has the new barrels and respawn tanks. Even if the new tanks are great, it still isn't enough to keep the BR players hooked in, as the game feels mostly the same for them.

When I'd ask some players prior to the update, they wanted some sort of ranked mode, or atleast more new guns, have some sort of goal or achievement to go for, beause me, myself included, feel we have done everything already in this game.

[vale mason]

final fantasy for example lol

[worldly fiber]

...did I already state my reasons to the thread's original question?

[unreal jetty]

dude

[vale mason]

I don't remember, but I think not

[soft needle]

....and?

[unreal jetty]

is that a genuine suggestion or satire

[soft needle]

The parry mechanic? Leaving aside for the moment that you chose to miss that this was presented as an alternative to nerfing the ranged weapon... in a 'if you broaden your line of thinking' kind of way ... sure, any kind of damage mitigation is 'one' way to go about improving a melee weapon's odds in such an encounter.

[urban merlin]

tbh a parry mechanic sounds silly

[unreal jetty]

ive never seen anyone say ak is trash

[soft needle]

That's fine. You're welcome to think that avenue is silly.

[vale mason]

I never said it's trash, but I claimed it's bottom tier for solos, before laser came

[soft needle]

Depending on who you ask, bow and sparrow or BCG would be bottom tier.

[urban merlin]

only weapon to be bottom tier is superite or gray magnum, most guns can shine if you know how to use them

[unreal jetty]

yes instead of nerfing one gun lets buff the least used weapon in the game as a counter rebalance to every other weapon in the game to please the three people who think the ak is overpowered

[soft needle]

I trust that you were actually following the conversation before you latched onto that one message, right?

Because I'm starting to doubt it.

[unreal jetty]

i scrolled through the entire thread yes

[soft needle]

And actually 'read' the thread, right?

[urban merlin]

I mean, if you wanna nerf the AK just reduce the blue one's damage by 1

cuz blue AK has the same damage as the purple M16

[soft needle]

Because if you did then you would know that there was a previous section of discussion concerning AK and melee.

[unreal jetty]

yes i read that

[soft needle]

Oh good.

I'll go back and double check. Perhaps things weren't as clear as I recall.

[unreal jetty]

melee was never a counter to any other weapon in the game and it isnt really intended to be

as others have said it's literally just a last resort weapon that you use to finish a kill

i see no reason to center the entire meta and balance around it

[soft needle]

Which is not something I said should happen.

[worldly fiber]

Also I'd like to point out that a parry mechanic would most probably be much more effective against non-spammy weapons.

I.e. Sniper/HR/Magnum/etc

[unreal jetty]

adding a parrying mechanic would cause that

[soft needle]

I 'did' point out that looking at the melee weapon is an alternative to nerfing the ranged weapon. That's a world apart from the narrative you're manufacturing.

[unreal jetty]

the ability to completely just stop bullets is not a thing with any other item in the game but technically the armored items

why would making an item every player spawns with and permanently has have the ability to make other weapons less viable due to a parry system

be needed

[soft needle]

Okay. Let's hyperfocus on that for a moment even though it was clearly stated as an example. I'm more than open to any kind of parry being a bad take. Are you ready for this conversation to be de-derailed?

[lone rover]

The idea was never to center the meta around it, the idea was to make it slightly more viable against other weapons. Which isn't necessary either but is a very different argument.

[unreal jetty]

no im not interested in continuing this conversation in the slightest

[soft needle]

I didn't think so. I was the target, not the conversation.

[unreal jetty]

??

i replied to your message just to say "this is not a good idea and would ruin the meta, why are you suggesting this as a counter to the ak"

thats it

i have no interest in making this go on longer than it should

[vale mason]

I'm voting in forgoing melee conversation at all. Please stop or take it somewhere else.

[urban merlin]

indeed, a parry mechanic is just so silly that it shouldn't be entertained.

[soft needle]

Agreed. This is a continued derailment. I'll be stepping away.

[unreal jetty]

as i was going to say i do agree the ak definitely has less use and better alternatives in solos

[vale mason]

It's not that I have something against pathforger but I don't want to discuss something that 99% of players do not want. The aim of this thread is to focus on what people would want.

[worldly fiber]

My interpretation of the question is that the important part is "What would've made you return?", to which I would answer "I don't know if anything would". I mean, it's wrong to say that I've stopped playing, but the only reason I play is because of a friendgroup who plays SvR often. I think I'm just naturally moving on from the game.
Although, I will say that SAW most definitely waters down the social aspect of the game rather than playing it up. I spend a lot of the time in the SAW Lobby miles away from my friends while waiting for the next game of SvR because my fish collection isn't complete (and, prior to today, I had quests from General Macarfur). There's also effectively no post-match lobby; there isn't much of a way to gather players from the same match together.

[urban merlin]

I'd love for the servers to return to Texas soon and have BR get more content, like new guns for example. Perhaps a burst rifle.

[median crest]

least obvious ragebait

[median crest]

i wish the servers would be in texasuhh

[unreal jetty]

incrpt dont even try to entertain that

[median crest]

he never gone against

actaully decent bcg

user

[unreal jetty]

or actually decent bow

yea

[median crest]

roink would fiddle him

[soft needle]

Interesting timing. Also try telling me that some players don't avoid those weapons because they don't understand how to use them.

[worldly fiber]

I don't know what Webfishing does that SAW manages fails so badly that I'd argue it had the polar opposite effect, but I have theories.

[unreal jetty]

mel would

[urban merlin]

wether or not he faced good players is irrelevant to the topic of having players return to the game.

[vale mason]

I always wanted a burst rifle and this was one of my suggestions.

[median crest]

doesn’t mean it’s bottom tier

maybe they are bottom tier

[unreal jetty]

battle royale game 🤔

[median crest]

if u don’t know how to load and shoot the gun

maybe that’s ur fault not the guns

[soft needle]

Hence the "Depending on who you ask" part that was conveniently ignored.

[median crest]

doesn’t matter who u ask the gun is top no matter what 😭

[worldly fiber]

despite being a battle royale game, we managed to build up quite a community

[unreal jetty]

that is true

[median crest]

@unreal jetty quite a community 🤔

i hope ykwim by that

[unreal jetty]

im saying the core aspect of hte game was battle royale, and the transition between a focus on combat to a focus on a social hub was kinda rocky

[unreal jetty]

i do

[worldly fiber]

And it feels like SAW's driving this community apart (no, not like in the way this feedback forum is going, as in making them more distant, not adversarial)

[vale mason]

i dont feel very social in the social hub tho

[urban merlin]

to be fair

[unreal jetty]

the old game was more social

but whatever

[urban merlin]

the social hub is only 64 players

[vale mason]

or that im surrounded by social blanket, to be more precise

[urban merlin]

if we had a single, massive social hub, the game would be way more precise

wait no

social

[median crest]

it’s social bro wym

[urban merlin]

had a brain stroke

[median crest]

i like talking to

[worldly fiber]

To some, they come to SAR for the community, but despite being the target audience, I think those people have been let down

[median crest]

actaully not gonna say that

[urban merlin]

would you prefer a 64 hub or a 256 hub

[median crest]

that would have gotten me banned

[unreal jetty]

we all know what you like talking to

[median crest]

idkkkk

[unreal jetty]

128

[median crest]

bunny don’t make me pull up the dms from last night

@urban merlin a extra 3 players wouldn’t be bad

who is

wth

[urban merlin]

it's because

64 players on the massive map? and with the npcs?

half the people will just be roaming around from quest to quest, fishing or bug catching, and a couple few would actually talk to eachother

[vale mason]

as for this thread i felt that the community is not brought apart but more together. btw you still havent said your reasons for not playing

[urban merlin]

128 or 256 would be better considering the size of the map

[median crest]

did Einstein really die?

[worldly fiber]

Up here, this is all I've got.
TLDR "I'm just naturally moving on from the game"

[unreal jetty]

reasonable

everyone else is

[median crest]

i only play for umbra

[unreal jetty]

i only play for privs

[urban merlin]

i only play when a couple friends ask for duels in pubs, otherwise, no point.

[median crest]

koth ❤️

[median crest]

am i in that

category

[urban merlin]

yeah

[unreal jetty]

yea i 5-0 you every time

[worldly fiber]

Some say that if the game had new content they might come back. I think that I might not, either the content would be so novel that the game is unrecognizable, (inclusive) or the content would not change the formula enough

[unreal jetty]

as ive said in other servers i think the br aspect is beyond saving at this point

[urban merlin]

ranked perhaps? yes i know some people are hellbent on "Ranked can never happen" but it'd give lots of players something to aim for, the game after all had +1800 new people on steam show up on launch day for the update, 2300 people total.

[unreal jetty]

yea ranked is worth a shot

[urban merlin]

make it fast games and smaller circles with 32 players if the concern is not enough players

private games can already speed things up when there's not enough players. ranked could do that.

[worldly fiber]

Maybe, but I feel like that might not have been a reason to pivot to something else entirely...

[torn sky]

yo u think the gold bcg that 2shots you is f tier?

[worldly fiber]

SAW feels like a whole other game

[worldly fiber]

Am I tripping or does it no longer do that

[torn sky]

it does :D

[urban merlin]

it still does

[unreal jetty]

i still stand by the fact ranked wouldve gotten more players and for a longer period of time if launched before saw

[urban merlin]

a direct hit if you're lucky deals 51 damage with armor, if you're unlucky, 49

[worldly fiber]

My speculations as to why the social hub seems less social than the old pregame lobby include:

• Too much activity, too little downtime for conversation/interaction. Particularly traversal!
• No post-match chatroom; Major barriers to converse with the people you spent an multiple matches fighting against. (The next lobby usually served this purpose) (Way to alienate the winner(s), Victory Island!)
  Getting too sleepy to write more, so leaving it at this

I mean, you can't chat while bug hunting. Fishing has too small a window for saying anything, too. Both only have localized chat.

Questing splits players up faaaaar across the map

[urban merlin]

too much activity, only 64 players

[vale mason]

lower population density + activities that do not facilitate socializing = not so social hub

[worldly fiber]

It would definitely help if the social hub housed all the players instead of splitting them into multiple social hubs, but I feel that the 10 player "dead" lobbies also took a sharp dip in interaction. Back then, at least I keep seeing those same 10 players, same time, same place.

It would be nice if bug hunting required teamwork

Rather than something better done alone due to bugs' first-come-first-served nature

[zealous swan]

For me, it's cause playing on Switch is nothing but pain

[vale mason]

after update, or in general?

[zealous swan]

Mainly after the update. I came back to it when it dropped but I can't play via steam anymore, so I'm kinda stuck.

[lone rover]

There is a Switch update that's still waiting for Nintendo to review and let it through, so hopefully that will help when it goes through.

[zealous swan]

More reasons why I hate it lmao

[drifting fox]

Tbh what I've been thinking is that SAR doesn't know what it should be, and that might actually just be the fate of a lot of BRs, lean too much into BR and it dies out of repetitiveness, lean too much out of BR, but you still have to support the BR being there

[deft tusk]

i scanned through most of these posts and here are my general thoughts

ak isn't op, it's just easier to get kills with than any other weapon so a lot more players will seem op with it

no weapon is op and the closest i would argue are shotgun/jag or bcg

shotgun/jag just has an insane ttk which can sometimes feel unfair especially if the player has initiative, but it can still be countered and its just sometimes annoying to adjust your playstyle to avoid shotguns in closed areas

bcg is only op if its gold and if the player is really good at using it, but its charge time still makes its ttk pretty bad and its just op because of its splash damage. in closer ranges the ttk can go up rapidly, but even seeing skilled players use gold bcg, it doesn't seem like it needs balancing. it just needs to be fixed so that the eggs dont magically do zero damage sometimes

in terms of balancing weapons, any minor adjustments to the existing weapons are not going to help players come back because no one is leaving the game because they got killed by an ak

the game needs new content; new interesting weapons that are unique like the blunderbuss was, or just new br mechanics in general. right now all the players are focusing on SAW because SAW is what the update was focused on. when BR gets a large update then players will return to BR and it will be more alive and hopefully even retain a steady playerbase like it used to have before SAW

[deft tusk]

not to mention spawn points are now scattered across the map which discourages socializing when you arent spawning next to other players anymore (welcome center and victory island are two exceptions but they are still not as active as pre-saw welcome center)

[vale mason]

one guy just said that, unless he was lying

[vale mason]

im not sure if they are focusing on saw or just finished quests and left

[vale mason]

i think that it's minor problem in the general picture. island is too big for 50 people and new activities are not good for socializing

[vale mason]

I would argue that there are no op weapons, but they are not exactly equal in terms of competetiveness. There are slightly better and worse choices. Also depends on mode.

I agree on shotgun

[drifting fox]

do the mmorpg thing, the world is actually partitioned into 3 servers based on in game location with loading screens xdddd

/stupididea

[soft needle]

I know that it has already been mentioned here and other places - but high turnaround time quests specific to SAW like the later pearl quests will have players choosing if they want to queue up for a mode or scour a coast for opportunities to try and get lucky.

[vale mason]

I've read once by someone in Pixel that basically weapons cover every niche now so I doubt they will do new weapons.

There is only so little you can come up with, when everything has to be made to please the jumping mechanic.

like sniper rifle just being almost magnum etc

[soft needle]

The current spread of weapons 'is' broad. More niches exist and some ammo types are more represented than others.

[vale mason]

I would like to see more creative powerups and throwables however.

[soft needle]

They tried with the Juicer, and they did give us the catmine and the zip and go in recent years.

Which isn't to say they shouldn't keep trying.

[vale mason]

juicer was trash

the concept was just bad

[soft needle]

It had many revision options.

[vale mason]

true, a lot actually

[drifting fox]

how about skunk gas spray and windup laserbeam flash weapon

[vale mason]

many suggestions were written

but the whole idea "item that helps you collect more juice" was flawed from begiing since juice collection is very easy

instead of building on flawed concept, it's better to do something else

[soft needle]

It wasn't enough. It was a boon at the start and pretty much just the start. The extra juice carry was of limited use too.

[drifting fox]

imagine spraying a bit of skunk gas that lasts 0.5s over an entrance to slow enemies down

[soft needle]

As a weapon?

[drifting fox]

yes

[vale mason]

i tried to ask for catmine buff, but casuals didnt like that

catmine is not competetive

[soft needle]

Sounds like a basis for a suggestion thread. ^_^

[deft tusk]

any sort of new creative idea in br could absolutely be implemented

[drifting fox]

flamethrower (sfw)

[deft tusk]

catmines would benefit from a rework more than a buff but they have their uses already and even competitive players get hit by them occasionally, i think they are better to use as sensors or area control

[drifting fox]

i thought catmines should explode into skunk gas like skunkshrooms when triggered

maybe as a variant

[vale mason]

you forgot about laserite. what im trying to say. it would be nice if something USEFUL was added

[soft needle]

Ah yes. I did not include weapons since the topic detour was throwables and powerups.

Yes, new things to add something fresh would be nice - but care needs to be taken when introducing new things. People do complain about new inclusions competing with loot pools.

[deft tusk]

with this being said i think every throwable is fine except ziplines

[vale mason]

grenade is op, skunk is situational, banana is forker combo, catmines are bad,

aaand ziplines is a joke

[deft tusk]

i dont think grenades are op but ive seen the sentiment before