Game mode suggestion: Ranked Royale

[dreamy tide]

#1456081863599984808 message

When I think of a ranked grinder I think of people spending hours in front of the computer, playing a game that brings them no joy, unleashing wrath upon everything that breaks their focus and costs them the game and their rating.

[coarse zodiac]

100% grantee ou that is not it

[dreamy tide]

I reject this axiom. Now go supply proof.

I'm imagining the extreme case, but I believe that this is, in fact, and extreme case and not a unorthodox case.

[coarse zodiac]

why would they play a game that they get no joy in

yeah I will supply proof

[dreamy tide]

Humans are irrational.

They take drugs when it destroys them

They pay more than what they believe is a fair price for coffee.

Playing games they don't enjoy is far from the rarest case of human irrationality.

[coarse zodiac]

are you irrational

[dreamy tide]

I am human, therefore I am irrational.

[coarse zodiac]

how can you just assume every rank grinder is irrational

or gets no joy into gaming

although this isnt proof but me myself enjoys grinding ranked

[dreamy tide]

"Every"? Was that what I said?

[coarse zodiac]

well thats what you think

you didnt specify so I assumed mb

[dreamy tide]

.

And you ask why I'm tired.

[coarse zodiac]

then how much of these ranked grinders get no joy

ofcourse some dont but a few bad apples dont ruin the basket

[dreamy tide]

I do not have access to that statistic, but whatever proportion it is, it's enough for slice of life comics to depict it, and not lack resonance from the comments section.

[coarse zodiac]

well would it be enough for you to oppose ranked?

im sure that there are few people who rages everyday or gets no joy out of it but still plays it, but most comp players would enjoy it

I think its safe to assume that

wont these people that get no joy in the game still play sar even without ranked anyways

[frank pike]

I can tell you that taking Joshua's observation out of context as advice was the best thing I did this past year.

(at least as far as SvR was concerned)

[frank pike]

"A strange game. The only winning move is not to play"

[lean hollow]

what all have in common? they died

anyways to be the devil's advocate on this:

minecraft

but that's still quite vague

cause servers may have their own ranked system or whatever

[coarse zodiac]

oh yeah

[forest parcel]

they are over 20 years old so it's a bit unfair to blame it on "lack of ranked", lol

[lean hollow]

they are still bad examples to point out

[forest parcel]

and counter strike 1.6 is perhaps not dead

[forest parcel]

they are good examples, because I said "in history", then I was asked to point to examples, then I gave examples

nothing bad on my part here

[lean hollow]

history doesn't reflects today, we are talking about today

games that are alive

we do not apply suggestions from games that died

[forest parcel]

stop being bossy man... I will talk whatever I want about, got it?

[lean hollow]

and that game probably has it's own community-driven ranked mode

i wouldn't be surprised

atleast there is a reason why they recommand using a plugin that check your entire PC off hacks

[tough cedar]

Lol

[dry charm]

lol

[pallid chasm]

Lol

[lean hollow]

sorry bo$$

[dreamy tide]

Most sports.
And before you bring up the Olympics, that doesn't explain the players who neither record their match results when playing nor train for competitive play, as can be most visibly seen in school clubs for 2- or 4-player sports, which usually don't send all of their members to participate in competitions.

[lean hollow]

⁨Most sports.⁩ elaborate on them

[coarse zodiac]

soccer for example definitely has ranks similar to mmr/elo
laliga (pro league) for example which has a leaderboard

[dreamy tide]

elaborate on them.
You can't be saying that if I ring up my friends right now and play a game of soccer with them, I'd be participating in a ranking system?

[coarse zodiac]

I was talking about a pro league

[dreamy tide]

Before you bring up the Olympics...

[coarse zodiac]

im not

[dreamy tide]

And here I thought I was the pinnacle of pedantry...

[coarse zodiac]

you wouldn't, you could apply to a Sunday league which has rankings

[dreamy tide]

Do all games of soccer exist only to train for some league?

[coarse zodiac]

no main purpose for games are to have fun

[lean hollow]

no, that's the equivalent of sar players hosting scrims with a circle of friends

[coarse zodiac]

nba doesn't use an elo/mmr but still has some sort of rankings

[lean hollow]

team based games are gonna have team based ranking

[dreamy tide]

And here I thought I was the pinnacle of pendantry...

"Don't bring up the Olympics" brings up NBA and Sunday Leagues instead

[coarse zodiac]

I dont understand

[dreamy tide]

Ah, so only skilled players would desire to create private lobby games. Is that what you're implying?

[coarse zodiac]

no

dont many streamers do private lobbys ?

[dreamy tide]

Would those be classified as scrims?

[coarse zodiac]

I dont know

tbh

[lean hollow]

i thought you didn't like strawmaning

anyways, you cannot host private matches in sar with a circle of friends and then just post the results whenever you feel like to the staff and hope they are going to give you a medal for it

same as you going around and playing with your friends soccer or whatever and then sending the results to competitive organizations

you see, you first have to sign up to those organizations

[dreamy tide]

This is another thing infuriating about these debates, it feels like I have to do the thinking for my opponents, too.

There are many soccer associations. They do not account for all games of soccer. Definitely not most "friendly games".

[coarse zodiac]

yes casual games

[lean hollow]

when you talk about competitive sport, i'd assume you do not talk about playing in the back of the yard with your friends and more about playing with professionals that specialize in sort of stuff

[dreamy tide]

1. Point taken. But please don't leave anything to implication if you don't want me to interpolate.
2. Oh, so that means that all players attend private matches in the hopes of-
3. You have to be kidding-

[dreamy tide]

And which would a public game of SAR be more analogous to?

[coarse zodiac]

a public game of sar is casual? whats your point

[lean hollow]

literally any park really

or any public space where you can just join kids

to play football with

they do not even have to be your friends

the problem with this analogy it's that it mixes people playing a game competitively and then a game that has competitions being hosted

you jump between these points

SAR has only one competition area centered around

while football has thousands of ranked competitions

[dreamy tide]

To prove Jatta's point: There exist popular games with competitiveness at least on par with SAR that do not implement ranked systems.

[coarse zodiac]

that doesn't mean sar wouldn't benefit from it

[dreamy tide]

My primary examples were low player count games, like tennis and volleyball, it's you guys who latched on to the most hyped game of soccer

[coarse zodiac]

also the fact you couldn't come up with one proves it

[lean hollow]

also we give you the benefit that the rules that apply to an irl game apply same to an online game

[coarse zodiac]

soccer is the most popular sport for a reason

[dreamy tide]

That would be Television, not rankings.

[coarse zodiac]

rankings?

world wide soccer is by far

[dreamy tide]

Also, quickly googling "burnout from competitive soccer" yields the point I was trying to prove...

[lean hollow]

so we are jumping to another point

[coarse zodiac]

give me a resource

[dreamy tide]

What are the 3 points I'm jumping between, and how are they unrelated?

[lean hollow]

i do not even wanna consider that i have to explain how a physical game is more different

than a virtual game

[dreamy tide]

I cannot post links.
Burnout and Mental Interventions among Youth Athletes: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis of the Studies

[lean hollow]

this can get entirely off-topic if i did that

and it will derail entirely for this subject

[coarse zodiac]

I mean I rather have a burnout than not playing soccer at all

id eventually play it again anyeays

[dreamy tide]

Mental burnout is one of the forms of burnout mentioned in the article titled above.

[lean hollow]

mental burnout is still tied to phyiscal burnout

you see, your brain is sending these signals

to most parts of your body

what kind of serious mental burnout you'd have in sar if you just move your fingers and your hand a little

do you kick anything around the room while playing sar?

do you constantly out of breath

while playing sar?

do you constantly get dehydrated cause of sar?

any sore muscles?

sorry but no

incomparable

[dreamy tide]

While that is a well-documented occurrence, it's your turn to supply articles that prove that mental burnout in sports is primarily caused by physical burnout.

In fact, a quick google search already turns up counterexamples if you use the term "Burnout from competitive esports"

[coarse zodiac]

when you have a burn out doesn't it come from the thing you used to really like

[lean hollow]

really

[dreamy tide]

If you need to capitalize to prove your point, you might be losing footing.

[lean hollow]

check on google
how does my brain communicate with my body

[lean hollow]

you see when i copied this it copied with the caps too

[dreamy tide]

I already ceded that this is a well documented occurrence

My counterpoint is that it is not the primary cause of mental burnout.

Also, your "physical burnout is the cause of mental burnout" objection falls flat in the case of esports mental burnout.

[lean hollow]

how do you know that

provide me an article that says otherwise

your turn

[dreamy tide]

I cannot post links.

But sure:

[lean hollow]

post screenshots

[dreamy tide]

Yes. Yes it does. What does this mean from players who really like SAR?

[lean hollow]

esports, we are talking about football here

[coarse zodiac]

would that not make it good? burn out comes from games people find enjoyable

[lean hollow]

you are giving me links to counter-strike

overwatch and other stuff like that

[coarse zodiac]

I wouldn't be competitive in a game i hate

cant you also get a burnout from a game that doesn't have some sort of esports too

[lean hollow]

and if by sports you mean esports

then i can only say that i'm amazed by your ability to mislead a conversation

[dreamy tide]

If you can dismiss analogous relations occurring in the esports community, I can dismiss analogous relations occurring between other cases of physical burnout causing mental burnout.

I don

't have time for this, class in 22 minutes

Not wasting my prep time on being your personal chatbot

[lean hollow]

i'm pretty sure i was clear enough i was mentioning to real life sports, and you were clear enough too by mentioning olympics as an example

[dreamy tide]

Google can literally argue with you guys on my behalf

ChatGPT's too much of a yes-man though

[lean hollow]

so we research your arguments?

[dreamy tide]

maybe.

[lean hollow]

i mean honestly, if a chatbot jumps between online gaming sports and real life sports then it must be a very old chatbot

that is not capable of completely memorizing what they talked previously

and keep itself to the subject

[coarse zodiac]

why is burnout such an issue, if you occurred it its obvious you need to quit/break if they dont its their ignorance.
when i first started sar hell I loved it about 150 hours in even i was burnt out i had a break.

[lean hollow]

that's also another point too but i gave him the satisfaction of actually debating his argument

honestly it should have stopped when he mentioned real life sports

maybe they are from same root but they are from completely opposite sides of the branches

[lean hollow]

⁨⁨⁨My primary examples were low player count games, like tennis and volleyball⁩⁩⁩

i can assure you that our romanian Simona Halep goddess is a ranked individual in tennis

and i'm pretty sure there's something similar things for volleyball too but i'm quite afraid of losing my messages perms or getting my first warning because of advertising

[coarse zodiac]

there's a leaderboard for volleyball

[lean hollow]

could be both

i mean hosts in sar can stream their games

why does that make a difference

[lean hollow]

anyways the point he started from

[lean hollow]

and what he searched

idk but this has to be a form of amnesia

[coarse zodiac]

im sure sar comp was atleast interesting based on rukis most popular vids

[lean hollow]

he knew he lost the football comparation argument and then he switched to another

and tried to imply he is talking about the same thing

idk but this has to be a form of trolling

no offense

[coarse zodiac]

not sure why he brang up sports cause those definitely has ranked

[lean hollow]

so he can bring up playing it locally in the backyard? idk

[dreamy tide]

The reason I have to jump topics so often is because I have to account for the possibility that you guys will cherrypick the cases of any context I choose that would benefit your arguments, and refuse to pay attention to anything but those cases.

This is why it is becoming excruciatingly difficult to resist the temptation to sling a singular insult regarding both of your intelligences and use that as justification to disqualify you from the conversation.

I need to use analogies to back up other analogies because your arguments are verging on unfalsifiable.

Before you mistake unfalsifiable for unassailable, let me clarify that "I have a dragon on my shoulder. It is invisible, massless and formless." is unfalsifiable.

[dreamy tide]

Besides, this isn't how onus of proof works. You failed to prove your point. It's still your turn to prove it. I was trying to speed up the process by supplying esports examples as why your argument is unsound.

The two of you have some audacity calling me a troll; I'm the one getting fatigued of being forced to come up with hyperpedantic explanations in the futile attempt to prevent trite objections.

[dreamy tide]

I was mentioning olympics as an exception to my example.

[signal plume]

-# (This is an off topic question, probably best to continue in DMS, but)

but why do you continue to defend your criticism, even until it enters the (walls of text) phase?

And I don't seem to see you enjoying this either

[dreamy tide]

Because I cling on to the naïve belief that everyone in the world is a reasonable being, just that some have deeply entrenched false beliefs that require time and patience to debunk.

I also do not want the conversation to be overrun by impulsive arguments.

Can I tag out? Please?

[signal plume]

By tag out, you mean go back on track to the discussion, right?

[dreamy tide]

I mean get somebody else to argue so that I won't have to worry about the discussion being one-sidedly in favor of ranked without my input.

Kind of like tagging out in sports.
I really hate how this seems to have turned into basically a competition that I'm thinking like this.

[signal plume]

I wouldn't worry, someone makes a suggestion, some support it, and some are against it. It lets the developer see these perspectives, and judge them.

But Pixile isn't a Greek god. They don't elegantly sit in throne, as they watch a bloody tournament battle and grant the last bloody winner a bloody blessing.

-# Pixile watches a battle of 64 animals fight for the survival of the fitte-

They don't need anyone to prove their ideal, because they are the real judges at the end of the day. Yes, it makes their job easier if someone proves their ideal Superior, but 70% of the time that's an argument

And that's one of the last things that the devs want, it also influences the forum channel in a negative way.

Being real, no one really knows how to debate around here, at least most

Can't keep expecting an L and Kira situation, it's a reason why Ryuk found Kira the most interesting

[forest parcel]

some people, from sweat, probably

[tough cedar]

literally nobody does

[forest parcel]

If you want to visualize what this means: 2vs2 wrestlers, one has enough from one team, high fives with his teammate and rests

[forest parcel]

you are doing this to yourself, always, you can leave discussion at any time

even if discussion will be one-sided, as not sure if there is any tag partner this time. not many people recently here. For me, discussion is not interesting enough so not gonna tag in.

[lean hollow]

This translate to "my entire purpose here is to make the opposition speechless by bringing confusion instead of actually trying to prove my point by actual valid claims"

[lean hollow]

If your entire reason you are using these feedback channels to practice your mental gymnastics i have to tell you that twitter or reddit might be better platforms for that
The staff expects us to use this forum to give helpful feedback, you are doing nothing than derailing conversations to satisfy your ego
Please, do us all a favour and move this trolling to a more suitable platform than our cute animal game, we do not need to flood these chats

[lean hollow]

Your analogies to do not apply and they are reaching
Your analogies are good as saying that the reason you are not eating vegetables is because you hate fruits

[lean hollow]

You failed to prove your point the moment you switched to another topic to try to prove me wrong in a previous topic that you couldn't give a counter point to

[lean hollow]

No brother, you had to stick to your argument about sports and how is that any related to sar, this is not how it works

Maybe next time you will learn not to stay ontopic before you realize that you brought yourself an argument that you cannot back up

[frank pike]

...do you speak for Pixile?

Because it sure sounds like you're going hard on this disagreement, and I also see you have ideas of what can and cannot be discussed.

[lean hollow]

Oh poor you, well you see, you had the choice to refrain from going into efortless tangets to make people speechless by confusion instead of trying to have a claim that's impossible to argue against
You do not try to reach a common agreement, you are doing cheap shots to reach your own personal "winning condition"

[lean hollow]

Please do it, you are not adding anything to the conversation

[frank pike]

Hmm... that doesn't sound like Depths...

Do you really feel it necessary - or wise - to do the curb stomp thing?

[lean hollow]

I'm pretty sure the guidelines that i am expecting everyone to read before posting reflect that

[frank pike]

You've been sure of a lot of things.

[lean hollow]

Still unsure that you have read them tho

[frank pike]

Would you like to highlight which guideline you'd like to draw attention to?

[lean hollow]

Ok i see they are not part of the guidelines but still something you should read first before posting

[frank pike]

Hmm. Okay. Okay.

And do you feel like you have honoured the spirit of this paragraph?

[lean hollow]

Unfortunately i got carried away in expectations that we will eventually go back into the current topic, which we did not

[frank pike]

That's one way of putting it. Depths has expressed that he would like to cease his participation in the discussion. Without entering into the whys, I expect that you'll be honouring that request.

[lean hollow]

Still tho there's another part in the guideline which asked us to be civil

[frank pike]

Sure. It does ask that.

[lean hollow]

Do you feel like depths has honored the spirit of it?

[frank pike]

I admit that I only caught sections of it. I was too deeply engaged in another debate that was going on.

But I do know that I saw at least several points where the discussion became less about the topic and more about one-upping or diminishing participants.

In any case, I think we can agree that the discussion needs to get back on-track.

[signal plume]

He's over it alright, but you both need to chill out as well alright, because being real- I don't think these kinds of debates strengthen the idea @frank pike , very long debates are very specialized, none of us here can debate like that period. Me, you Path, NRG, and Depths.

It doesn't matter who started it first, but both defender and attacker just add fuel to the fire. Discord am I right?

If anyone here is sure that their super specific statement, can counter the super specific argument,

If you are that sure, that you are that correct.

-# I'm not joking or insulting anyone here, this is just what's been realistically been happening in the forums.

I need you to go Clone sar, and make that idea, then you can ask a pull request from Pixile if it works.

This goes to the one who created the idea, defending it with their life.

And the attacker who wants that idea dead at any cost.