#Weapon Balance Thread (started as sniper vs sparrow)

1 messages · Page 2 of 1

lofty island
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(which is cool as a concept)

dapper orbit
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BCG is OVER invasive AND trying to counter it is like trying to kill the Star-Nosed mole with your fist

lofty island
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Specifically the legendary variant, I presume.

dapper orbit
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The epic one can be just as annoying, had they not buffed the movement speed while it's charged, at least you'd have a fighting chance

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and it'd be at least somewhat more balanced

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But Ninja Boots + BCG pushing someone, you feel like you barely outrun them even if you're frame perfect with your rolls

lofty island
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I'd honestly not noticed an increase in movement speed once charged. I'll have to pay attention to it.

dapper orbit
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It's not an increase in movement speed when it's charged

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I'm talking about they buffed it at one point so you're faster with it today

lofty island
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Oh.

dapper orbit
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They actually had BCG even slower than Sniper/Minigun/HR, it was the slowest movement gun in the game

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But they buffed it to match it

tall lily
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why?

dapper orbit
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Hell if I know

tall lily
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it would make sense for it to be slow

wind zephyr
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didn't you say in our dms that originally the bcg was a glorified shotgun?

lofty island
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Most likely newer players were having a hard time warming to it.

wind zephyr
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since the dmg was pretty low?

lofty island
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I do recall avoiding it.

dapper orbit
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BCG was worse because the splash damage at the time used a different system

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and you could deal 1 damage with it

wind zephyr
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💀

dapper orbit
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I've got that to happen once

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But like, it literally could go from 1 damage to the max damage it could output in a full range

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But now they made it a set range

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I could argue Minigun and BCG should be even slower than Sniper/HR movement, even slower so it's in its own category

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Cause Minigun is explanatory but BCG is a launcher, launchers in many games are extremely slow

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But in SAR? Oh no, it's like AR movement

lofty island
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I admit that this too is a first time I hearing that particular complaint about BCG. It's eye opening.

wind zephyr
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there's only 2 sides of the BCG

dapper orbit
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That's cause I've never been on this server to voice all my complaints lol

wind zephyr
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you either fight someone who has no idea what they're doing

lofty island
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I get that. I am surprised others didn't point that out though.

wind zephyr
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or you fight someone that you wish stopped playing the game 💔

lofty island
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Ouch.

dapper orbit
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BCG also had the slowest reload

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It can't be 5 seconds was it?

wind zephyr
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idk

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currently it's 1.9

dapper orbit
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Oh, wiki says 2.2

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The BCG patchnotes.. so criminal

image.png
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I forgot they made the armor pen 65% up to 75%, THAT is why it was so bad back then

lofty island
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Honestly... does any other weapon have so much of a bump up in damage from Epic to Legendary?

dapper orbit
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No, they don't

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Actually, I'm not even gonna use the wiki to list it out

lofty island
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No no not asking that. I'm just toying with the idea of reigning Legendary back to Epic levels.

dapper orbit
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M16 is +2 for Legendary from Epic, Silenced is +2, Dartfly is +1, Thomas Gun is +2, Sniper is +4, Sparrow Launcher is +4, Deagle is +3, Jag is.. well that one I don't know well cause pellet damage lol, but I think it's +2? and then obviously BCG is +17

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and wiki check on Jag, Legendary is +2 per pellet from Epic when using Legendary

lofty island
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Yes - it's a big difference. So:

Legendary 72 > 60
Epic 55 > 50

And see how that goes?

dapper orbit
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Yeah, way too much, BCG was 58 E - 67 L which is +9

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But now it's +17

lofty island
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If the Epic isn't a problem in power level then maybe 55 > 52

dapper orbit
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I probably should get back to what I was doing, been here a couple hours lol

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Need to focus on Mystery Mode, wonder how it'll feel now

lofty island
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Thank you again for the feedback and insights. Have fun with Mystery Mode.

dapper orbit
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We still got 9 hours until MM lol

lofty island
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Oh true.

dapper orbit
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If I feel up to it

lofty island
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(don't worry - has less than 1,000 messages)

dapper orbit
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I already did 3 feedback surveys for MM and nothing came of it lol

lofty island
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Fair and noted!

neat whale
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the thing with BCG is that, as long as you keep your distance, you are gonna give your opponent a hard time, the problem is finding such setup

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BCG is the ultimate territorial control as opposed to the sniper being the ultimate offense

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or better to call them, heavy defense and heavy offense

leaden comet
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1k message wtf

lofty island
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(A fair number one-liners, to be fair)

bitter narwhal
deft thicket
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Weapon Balance Thread (started as sniper vs sparrow)

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(after getting some sleep and not being an insomniac gremlin hopped up on too much caffeine, i would like to say that i have been convinced otherwise and would like to rescind my statements vis a vis the balance of HR)

lofty island
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The topic generated some really helpful information. Thank you. ^_^

deft thicket
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a good night's sleep can do wonders

bitter narwhal
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1066 messages is WILD

torn stirrup
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weapon balance thread?

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its hard to think of any balances off the top of my head, most weapons feel pretty balanced at least in br modes

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i think a sniper spam fix would be nice but im unsure how it could be fixed especially since it's a pretty valid strat at close range

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i just don't like there being an rng wheel of your hp getting deleted at max range by someone who is spam clicking sniper, it doesn't feel rewarding to do and it doesn't feel that fair

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but that's kind of a nitpick and everything else in the game is pretty balanced other than emus in duos/squads

wind zephyr
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weapon balance? uhh.. lower the golden BCG damage by like 3 points.

That's it, everything else is balanced.

rapid cloak
# wind zephyr weapon balance? uhh.. lower the golden BCG damage by like 3 points. That's it, ...

i think like... bcg would be better off with a rework.

You can either make the damage scale more off of the charge, so lower charge shots dont do near as much damage

Or you can make it so the ammount of AOE the shot has, is based on the cahrge. Short charges have a small AOE. long charges have a big one. so that way you are rewarded for full charges, instead of just spamming shots.

or even a combination of both of these ideas. it still rewards usiong the weapon well, while still giving more counterplay vs it without really hard changing the weapon

neat whale
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the sniper shouldn't kill that fast ever

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you are supposed to switch to other weapon

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or retreat

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and attack again

neat whale
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i'd rather want the sniper to have a higher cooldown

rapid cloak
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There's more than one way to adjust the sniper to make this better or worse. You can reinforce the weapon swapping by tanking the movement speed with sniper. If you make it just barely faster than hunting rifle or even the same speed there's a huge drawback to keeping sniper out

You could rework the snipernslightly by giving it a 4 magazine size with a slightly slower reload so you are much punished for missing key shots. Or even keep the reload speed the same for that result

The question becomes what makes sniper unfun and how can you fu fymentally change the weapon to stop that

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Another option is to make you always have recoil unless you're still or sneaking even but that might prove very unfun or potentially frustrating to new or even experienced players

neat whale
neat whale
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they can make it so that if you shoot the second shoot too early, it's either slow or has lower range

neat whale
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take your time to do shoots = longer range

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spam it = shorter range (lower than shotgun maybe)

daring forge
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-# Woa, this is most chat messages in single card feedback I've ever seen

tall lily
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people like debating about weapon balancing clearly

daring forge
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Yeah, i know this gonna happen.

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Once the most OP weapon gets nerfed, other weapons are gonna get its title of OP and get nerfed eventually.

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Same also with underpowered weapons, and the power up items

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-# I can say it is how skillful they use one of weapons considered not so OP that people gonna think it is OP

tall lily
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there are a few weapons that i have yet to have seen someone convince me that its even POSSIBLE for said weapon to be viable

neat whale
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maybe bcg

rapid cloak
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BCG or shotgun probably

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or potentially silenced

daring forge
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Then if that weapon gets nerfed

neat whale
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yeah close ranged weapons usually dominate

rapid cloak
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i think like... sniper kind of always has been a gun to cause problems thoug

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even in other games sniper rifles tend to be the thing that causes the most issues for balancing

tall lily
neat whale
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the difference

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sniper in other games need aim

rapid cloak
tall lily
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no

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the main thing i would add is recoil

neat whale
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i do not think it makes sense to nerf any close ranged weapons tbh

rapid cloak
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recoil could be another one

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but i think the big thing is the reload is a bit short for how people are tending to use it

tall lily
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literally just adding ANY amount of recoil instead of it firing in a straight line would be sufficient for me

rapid cloak
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yea you could do recoil too and it would not be a bad idea

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id mention slow down the fire rate but one of the main draws is that silenced fires faster than dualies right?

neat whale
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and that it's silenced

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you can hear loud bangs whenever somebody spams dualies

rapid cloak
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also true

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maybe also

neat whale
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but funnily enough, for a weapon that's more dangerous such as silenced pistols, they are designed to be announced

rapid cloak
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the damage of it needs to do less at a range

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right now dualies out perform silenced only at absolute max range i believe?

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damage wize that is

neat whale
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honestly, the damage is debatable

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at this point it's this game's identity to have fast shooting weapons deal a lot of damage despite that

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the game has low ttk

tall lily
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iirc

neat whale
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if somebody comes with a pistol right in your face around the corner

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it's gg

tall lily
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the fire rate is too high

neat whale
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unless you are using a controller

rapid cloak
tall lily
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what spreadsheet

neat whale
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another thing they should handle are the hamsterballs

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emus are annoying too but easy to manage

tall lily
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ehh i rarely get run over with them

neat whale
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but hamsterballs are just downright random

tall lily
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i am more annoyed with emus

rapid cloak
tall lily
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wtf is that

rapid cloak
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a ttk spreadsheet

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measured in ms

tall lily
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who made it

neat whale
tall lily
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it doesnt seem to work on mobile ill view it tomorrow

rapid cloak
tall lily
rapid cloak
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charge time for minigun and superite are included

tall lily
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i rarely die to balls

neat whale
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they perform badly with you are fighting them vertically

rapid cloak
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but all the times assume all bullets hit right

tall lily
neat whale
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they do but it's very small

rapid cloak
tall lily
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im going off of average not the most unlikely scenario

neat whale
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believe it or not, even the sparrow launcher has recoil

rapid cloak
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i mean

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talking numbers for balancing is 100% important

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thats why i was talking about making the damage fall off more for silenced

tall lily
rapid cloak
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so long range spam is even worse

tall lily
rapid cloak
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exactly why id want the fall off to be more

tall lily
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we are discussing this for realistic environments not someone standing still right next to you letting you unload on them

rapid cloak
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so dualies could be more all round

neat whale
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sniper has no recoil either

tall lily
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it has like the highest recoil in the game iirc

neat whale
tall lily
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bro

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dyno

neat whale
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nah that can hit me 3 times, recoil on sniper is a myth

tall lily
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anyways that is rng

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it is completely possible to have sp recoil on the sniper with enough luck

rapid cloak
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i think like...

neat whale
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idk, i have a permanent status effect on me where everyone has no recoil when they are firing it at me

rapid cloak
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the damage numbers are important

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and the damage numbers affect potential time to kill right

tall lily
tall lily
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with that logic the sniper rifle can kill anyone easily because its POSSIBLE to get no recoil twice while firing

rapid cloak
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realistically even with no recoil youll miss some shots too though if the target is moving

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but the number of bullets to kill is important

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and how easy it is to land them is important too so

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adding recoil is a good way to nerf silenced

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or you could slow bullet velocity

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keep it accurate but have the bullets be slower

tall lily
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What.

rapid cloak
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Theres... more than one way to nerf a gun?

tall lily
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slowing down the bullet velocity wouldn't make much sense

rapid cloak
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it... actually would

tall lily
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imo i feel like the bullet velocity for pretty much every gun is fine excluding bcg

tall lily
rapid cloak
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no

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but right now the velocity is faster than dualies

tall lily
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even if you slowed it to dualies speed not much of a difference will be made

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it will still be incredibly powerful

rapid cloak
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yea, and its meant to be powerful i think

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When and where is the recoil an issue?

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id assume at mid or long range

tall lily
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think about it: why can you hit people with the dartgun even tho it moves so slowly

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because it has no recoil.

rapid cloak
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yea

tall lily
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i would argue that sp having dart velocity would still make it viable

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simply because of the dps, spammability, and lack of recoil

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slowing the bullets down would fix none of those issues

rapid cloak
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it would change how the gun is played on average i think

tall lily
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anyways im going to sleep cuz its 1 am for me

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ill read whatever you guys say later

rapid cloak
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im not saying adding recoil is wrong

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i just throw out all ideas to nerf it

tall lily
tall lily
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damn we cleared 1200 messages

neat whale
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Bullet speed only makes a difference if it's low enough

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Otherwise with lag it doesn't really matter

daring forge
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The people are gonna complain if the slow bullet speed is noticeable and feel weird

neat whale
rapid cloak
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yea if i did bullet speed, i wouldnt make it much slower than dualies

tall lily
neat whale
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I can see the most obvious grenades and react to them but that's almost never enough

rapid cloak
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but i think like... the best solution would be both 1) add recoil and 2) maybe make damage fall off a bit more so its reinforced as a close range option

tall lily
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lag is why i hate emus more than balls

neat whale
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If it weren't for lag

tall lily
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not if you use darts correctly

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like the bow

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in theory

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because of the low velocity

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it wouldnt be that great

rapid cloak
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Dart x2 + melee is fun

tall lily
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but the way you aim it

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makes all the difference

tall lily
neat whale
tall lily
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bow aint that fast

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i don't know the exact values but it moves pretty slowly

neat whale
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Not that slow as a dart gun

tall lily
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now kindly let me sleep

daring forge
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The skillful player also makes other peoples think the weapon looks OP

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Like skillful bow player

neat whale
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I think it's at the rare magnum level

tall lily
daring forge
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Well I'm an AS player and some of them use bows efficiently and I always get hit even if I evade it

tall lily
tall lily
daring forge
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30 ping

tall lily
neat whale
tall lily
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and ping isn't necessary entirely equivalent to lag

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did u see the values above nrg

neat whale
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Ye

tall lily
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kindly allow me to sleep.

daring forge
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They also wait a right time after i dodge

neat whale
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Also I got hit by all bullets from an dmg during the slow bullets mode

daring forge
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-# Not sure if we use mystery mode as a part for weapons balancing especially the restricted weapons like handgun only and cowboy.

neat whale
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Ok it was an ak but

neat whale
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You can get hit by anything

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No matter how slow it is

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Due to lag

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This is how people can hit their dart shots

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Cause their opponent is not aware of how vulnerable they are to their opponents screen

daring forge
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Players who had +200 ping shoot at the corner before opponents even go there and manage to get kill.

neat whale
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If things played in real time in both screens, I would have dodged those bullets

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100%

tall lily
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dude

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trust me i also have those lag problems

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darts and bows hit regularly as well

neat whale
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And that's why
But normally they shouldn't do that

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If everyone played LAN, that is where bullet speed truly matters

dapper orbit
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Silenced Pistol kinda makes a lot of sense if you actually learn some of the implications of adding a suppressor at the end

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It gives it range and better recoil, as far as why it shoots faster well that's beyond me

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Plus another thing that people don't realize is that some games when you do add suppressors too, the damage fall off also changes, so it would also make sense why the SP is really good

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Pistols can be really powerful in the right hands, but the caveat is that you have to have the muscle memory in timing your spam perfectly and having good aim because you have limited mag size outside of the Dualies having 20 but harsher recoil to account for it

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I used to remember Dualies was even deadlier because the recoil pattern I think was the exact same system as the Single Pistol so it was just a literal upgrade for free, although even with the recoil we can agree that Single Pistol and Dualies are relatively similar in almost every aspect

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Hell, if you wanna go even further, Single Pistol, Dualies, and Silenced were all a LOT harder to perfectly spam because there was no extra input buffer system in place so that it would make spamming these 3 weapons at their maximum potential a lot more often

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Hence why people like NotBlueJayZ / ZypherSilverlock was always called a cheater back in the day, he was just really good at it, even I was starting to shake my head over this as I finally nailed this perfect spam tech and always found this whole cheating thing a farse, people just had a major skill issue lol

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But even I can agree Silenced Pistol is one of the best guns of the entire game, the only weakness it has is long-range fights but even those end up being tolerable for SP, it just means you gotta hit a ton of spam to kill someone at that distance

tall lily
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ive played terraria for years and i can easily sink past ten cps without trying and i have to force my arm to move slower in order to use dualies

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so i just dont use them

torn stirrup
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yeah pistols really fun in casual lobbies but annoying in skilled lobbies i think

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i love single pistol in casual lobbies it's really fun

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i hope no one saw that auto correct

lofty island
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I think you're safe. ^_^

leaden comet
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well maybe nerf dual pistols

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or make smth for the controller players

bitter narwhal
leaden comet
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its not

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imo controller players struglle more with it

bitter narwhal
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6 close bullets is enough

leaden comet
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yh maybe

bitter narwhal
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Btw if you want a tip, with the Dualsense on PC there's that cool software called DSX which you can customise your adaptive triggers to make it act like a button, it resists and makes some sort of click which makes it easier to spam imo

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That's what i do atleast

leaden comet
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i play on switch lite 😭

bitter narwhal
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Can't help you

neat whale
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in exchange

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controller players are like better than keyboard players when it comes to dodge and advance through enemies' bullets at the same time

tall lily
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controller players have a higher skill ceiling

neat whale
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but also a higher floor skill

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my first few minutes with a controller ended up me dodging 3 aks

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by simply just moving my analog randomly like a maniac

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and it's mostly scary to see someone moving most of the time

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until you realise their aim is bad

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and they are lvl 200

magic burrow
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higher skill floor = more prerequisite skill to begin to do anything decent

neat whale
winter bluff
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132(1) messages? here's the loopback to the OP's first message for anyone who wants to read all this (that is me. i am the nerd who wants to read all this) #1377461731357495426 message

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i rebound my pickup to rmb because dropping -> movement is something i dont wanna do in order to pick things up

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dart and dartfly who use compressed air Shifty_Sob

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dartfly: Shifty_Sob

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I honestly just think a simpler approach would be mid way through a roll a QTE appears for HR that lets you reload an empty rifle ala ROR2 Raillgunner

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(the exact kit of railgunner isn't the important part here, it's the QTE)

wind zephyr
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NO

winter bluff
# wind zephyr NO

i was suggesting based on the conversation not saying this is what should be added :/

rapid cloak
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Unrelated I might make a thread about the bcg later...

torn stirrup
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im waiting for windows to install on my new hard drive so in the mean time ill scroll through this post and reply to the things ive missed

torn stirrup
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ok so basically i think every weapon is balanced

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gold bcg is a bit powerful but that's about it

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a really skilled sniper user will seem op but that's because sniper excels so well in long range while also being viable close range

i also think shotguns will seem op just because how quickly and easily players die to them

but these are putting the weapons in their most ideal setting

for example, smg and dualies are both very well rounded, excelling in both close and medium range and countering shotgun pretty well as long as youre careful and position yourself properly

then weapons like ak and magnum can counter sniper because aks spray makes it hard for sniper users to peak or to focus on accuracy without taking multiple effortless hits, and magnum actually has a reliable recoil pattern that can be used to out-dps sniper easily at long range even between jump rolls

tl;dr even op weapons have viable counters so i don't think they are truly op

except gold bcg, 2-hit kill weapon with splash damage can be really hard to deal with if someone knows what they're doing, but i still think this is situational with the area it's used in

lofty island
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Player perception on the power level of a weapon - and its resultant pick rate, makes a difference in terms of overall approach to balancing.

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I do recall, back in 2022, that the BCG had a bit of an image problem. I still think I'd rather have legendary Deagle on Heavy II. Provided that another new class got the BCG - I also believe in full equipment representation in the mode).

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Post 1337. ^_~

tall lily
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heavy 2?

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whats that

lofty island
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Heavy class level 2 in SAW vs. Rebellion.

tall lily
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oh

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why are we discussing svr

lofty island
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Because that's the mode that I mainly know the BCG in - as I otherwise wouldn't pick it up in royale.

tall lily
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why not

lofty island
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(And that's true of a fair number of players, I suspect - because the BCG is less intuitive than most weapons and a live or die situation isn't a good one for getting comfortable with it)

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That players may not give the BCG a proper chance impacts its pick rate - and this in turn impacts its balancing.

tall lily
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the bcg is extremely powerful

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im not sure what youre getting at

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why are we discussing "getting comfortable with it" instead of its actual potential

lofty island
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Because it helps to understand why things happen.

tall lily
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why what happens? how does players not giving the bcg a chance affect its true firepower and potential
that doesnt make sense

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how would that affect the balancing

lofty island
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To put it another way, if you make a game with 'good' and 'bad' characters it is common for developers to balance the 'bad' characters to be a little more powerful as this helps even out pick rates.

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Similarly, when a weapon is 'seen' to be bad - it can get overtuned to encourage its use.

tall lily
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im not sure what this has to do with anything

lofty island
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And of all the weapons in SAR, BCG is the oddest clucking weapon.

tall lily
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i guess

wind zephyr
tall lily
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exactly lmao
if the only experience you have with the gun is the slightly balanced version instead of the insanely powerful one then

lofty island
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Yes, that is understood. All the more reason why most people wouldn't pick it up, as compared to some other options.

tall lily
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why does it matter if people pick it up or not

lofty island
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Pick rate doesn't reflect power level. It doesn't need to matter whether it is picked up or not. Once again this is to explain how the legendary BCG became overtuned.

tall lily
lofty island
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...

tall lily
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i do not think there was ever a time during which the bcg was under used

wind zephyr
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i think it's only it's early days when it was underused, then it got the most absurd buff in history, and then it got nerfed to it's current state

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they lowered the golden bcg's base damage from 78 to 72 to prevent 2-shotting (spoilers: it can still deal 51 damage)

tall lily
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yep

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it can still kill entire teams with one mag easily

wind zephyr
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purple bcg in it's early days dealt 41 damage on direct hit

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and it still got buffed sheep_sobbing

lofty island
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Is the purple BCG's power level also a problem? I thought only the legendary was an issue.

tall lily
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not as much

wind zephyr
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purple is strong, not overpowered or weak, strong

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gold is overpowered

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even if the very tip of the yolk touches you, 47 damage with armor

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and if you're lacking armor then around 60

tall lily
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most active forums recently just because people like debating about this

image0.jpg
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this forum might be the most active ever

daring forge
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BCG is some kind of grenade launcher right?

wind zephyr
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yes

torn stirrup
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@lofty island i get why you would think bcg isn't that great in battle royale mode but it's still extremely powerful

most players do suck at it or just avoid it altogether, but to critique a weapon's strength is to look at it at or near peak performance, and bcg is extremely hard to dodge when someone knows how to use it

usually you have time to punish bcg because you can survive the first two hits and that ttk at medium or long range gives you a good chance at killing them before they kill you

but gold bcg destroys you in 2 hits and it can do 50 dmg through armor even if it looks like it barely hit you, the splash effect is insane and it looks like it damages you without hitting you several times

this is ignoring the added buffs:

  • only weapon that can apply slow effect
  • only firearm that can shoot over objects (you can kill players with a gun when they can't even reach or see you)
  • gold bcg will actually out-dps gold jag at point blank

in most cases they are honestly easy to deal with, but when you get a skilled player with gold bcg it can feel really unfair at times unless you have a lucky position or can get initiative on them

lofty island
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Oh. I'd generally avoid it not because it isn't strong but because I wouldn't trust myself to get the most out of it as a weapon. I has a ramp that needs getting over and in royale it wasn't worth dropping an automatic weapon for.

This isn't to question its power level. It is powerful.

2-hit is also a bit much. Dropping damage by 2+ would help with that. Maybe bring it all the way back to 3 damage above epic and drop the epic by 2 damage - and have the legendary charge up 10% faster with 10% faster projectile speed and call it a day.

dapper orbit
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He was originally bringing up why BCG just isn't even worth having for Heavy 2 in SvR

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It's just garbage upgrade over the Magnum

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If I get Heavy 2 I just suicide, I'm not throwing away a gun that fires way faster and does roughly the same damage as the BCG, the only difference is there's no splash but who's sitting in 1 spot to ricochet 24/7 or getting back to back multi's with BCG? You can't even do that

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The way the splash and how its impact shot does, it'll detonate before it even hits the middle of a crowd, it's literally useless as crowd control cause it only hits the front of the pack and not the middle where it can do a signifcant amount of damage more, it's why I had a laugh the first time I touched the SvR Rework and saw it added to Heavy 2, it's a joke

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Either throw in the Deagle or put the Minigun in

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Or as a compromise, bring the Thomas Gun back

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Medic 2 used to have Thomas Gun but it got removed

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Why not toss that in Heavy 2, make it worth something

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But going back on the BCG, you cannot convince me at all that the BCG was ever balanced to begin with nor is it ever going to change my mind that I wish the drop rate became so low, you can't even see a micro percent of it

magic burrow
dapper orbit
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I throw it in the bin because it's a horrid gun and to this day the buffs it got were uncalled for, and that's not even counting the prior updates where the 2 shot range was so free for Legendary version, there's a reason the devs got rid of literally half of the guns' ability to 2 shot kill

magic burrow
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Alas, the average SvR player is not that intelligent, even after excluding the bots

dapper orbit
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Even if people stand in a group, you're only hitting at best 3 if there's like 8 in one spot

magic burrow
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And you're upset about hitting "only" 3?

dapper orbit
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The BCG just hits the very first guy it touches, if there's a bigger group behind that player you hit, the BCG basically becomes a wasted opportunity

magic burrow
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So don't aim at the first guy

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Aim at the land behind the first guy

dapper orbit
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Even if I aim behind him, if he's in the direct line of the shot, it's going to splash him

magic burrow
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So aim to the side of him

dapper orbit
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I love how you wanna argue with someone with nearly 5K hours about this lmao

magic burrow
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There's many.

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Back on topic, even if you can't land a hit on multiple people with the BCG, the BCG still has an equal fire rate to magnum (once every roll)

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Only drawback is the movespeed.

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Granted, that affects dodging, but dodging doesn't affect anything if people are busy shooting your teammates.

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So if you're trying to be a light tank, Heavy I could be superior to Heavy II.

dapper orbit
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Okay? People suddenly forget to stand ground and spam which is way faster and more efficient than once a roll, if BCG at least had a rework where it never instantly explodes eggs on direct impact mid flight, then you'd have to rely on skillfully charging the shots to a precise distance AND you'd hit more players out of it

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Might actually make the BR modes of BCG a lot different because now you're no longer reliant on a direct impact explosion giving free damage but it would make Legendary slightly easier if you know how to aim and charge the shots effectively to do that

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Would make BCG actually worth it somewhat on Heavy 2, but Magnum is just too good to trade away

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Even the rare shotgun is still just as good as the Epic Jag, so it hardly feels like the class gains anything minus an extra nade, 3 armor, and impossible tape

magic burrow
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In a 1v1 situation (as is common in BR) this would be a devastating nerf to the BCG unless BCG is granted the ability to charge mid-roll; otherwise its only setting after each roll is the maximum

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Which means your opponent is safe from you if they stand at midrange

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Another thing worth noting. Dodging BCG requires a major dodge compared to magnum, and it does (some) direct HP damage. The former makes it good for fighting standing targets (assault spammers, recuperating players), the latter makes it good for finishing off players who are low on health (recuperating players, again)

winter bluff
winter bluff
winter bluff
# dapper orbit Okay? People suddenly forget to stand ground and spam which is way faster and mo...

BCG is just as viable to stand your ground? if you do a half charge or 3/4 charge you can get eggs out quicker than magnum and the damage penalty is offset by, you guessed it, firing into crowds

I agree that bcg shouldn't explode on contact and should instead deal damage once it lands. Granted, it could make some things look weird as thats a projectile that passes straight through you then damages you, which could lead to confusion or difficulty reading in the heat of the moment

lofty island
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I personally think that it makes sense for an egg to smash on impact - but I understand the lack of penetration argument.

So here is are a couple potential improvements:

1 - Difference between impact range and charge range impacts the blast radius.
1b - Blast damage could drop based on bast radius.

2 - Perhaps as the egg starts to explode, the yolk travels as far as the position of the target allows - and further explodes with the white accordingly. This would improve penetration of crowds (without getting into bouncing eggs to hit the flank of a flow - understanding that only a very confident player would try that).

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3 - Treating the direct impact of the egg as 5-15 charge damage and reducing blast accordingly might be interesting for overall balance.

tranquil yarrow
alpine stratus
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How is there 1500 messages here? I agree completely though. This is an awesome idea!

daring forge
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Yeah, even if all the current weapons manage to get balanced and fair to each other somehow. It will break once a new weapon is added.
-# The other weapons need to step down in order other weapons to step up