The "divisional term" system is not, and has not, been fit for purpose - a potential solution

[potent socket]

@flint carbon can you never step down clever

Ur my goat

[carmine egret]

https://tenor.com/view/wesker-albert-albert-wesker-resident-evil-resident-evil-4-gif-5143688443782660001

[potent socket]

Why don’t we just leave it up to divisional vote?

if a division says okay yeah we need a new uoc then boom new uoc easy

[carmine egret]

my vote is x10

[potent socket]

Bro what how

[teal pike]

Worst decision ever btw

[potent socket]

Why

[teal pike]

Bias, favouritism

[crisp stone]

giving people uhh steam games and nitro

[potent socket]

aye Dr Roblox…

Yk

I am always accepting…

[potent socket]

Start doing this for the family king

[narrow harness]

yo bro 70 dollars for anno 117 and I actually wanted that game lel

why games so expensive

Now a day as

[crisp stone]

king when I get high rank

[potent socket]

sigh…

[civic ibex]

[plain burrow]

SSP is typing

[carmine egret]

https://tenor.com/view/essay-incoming-sonic-sonic-movie-litdad-litdad2-gif-22510083

[upper field]

entirely depends on ao

for example kp is active

[sage bane]

theres more to it than rotation "for the sake of rotation"

dc spots and uo spots are capped, and while uo spots are somewhat transient, the closest to guaranteed time when a dc spot opens is when the uoc's term expires

theres also a lot of functional differences between the uoc and dcs, generally the dcs cant "just do" something, whereas the uoc has much more ability to actually run the division

i dont disagree theres a need for power in some places, but theres also a functional argument that the uoc has a large amount of somewhat unchecked power until they do something the ao doesnt like, and theyre not necessarily the only person who can run the division as the uoc

uos and dcs dont necessarily always have the same amount of ability to impact their division that the uoc does, and if the decision is left to the ao to just indefinitely extend terms, i think you'll find most AOs will just take the easy way and not remove the uoc, and theres no recourse to aos being lazy fucks either

(not to mention the amount of power AOs can exercise without much checks at all, like just running the division themselves and making the uoc their puppet, but thats a different story entirely)

as sort of a final thing, the term limit also gives an easy way out for uocs after a while, they leave and get some benefits, and no one sees their term as bad because they couldnt continue any longer due to term limit, but with this system all uocs who leave will be leaving because the division votes them out and leaving in shame, basically no way out that doesnt lead to widespread embarassment

all this isnt to mention that the poll among divisional members is almost certain to attract popularity bias

but the one thing i havent mentioned so far is that the uoc also is power-seeking, its not as if theyre immune to the possibility of a desire for power, they just already have said power, and so theyll just attempt to keep it, i dont see why you single out uo/dc in that, when the biggest ones seeking power would be the ones who already have it, seeking to maintain their own fiefdom and their authority over it

[toxic mountain]

Tldr please

[ornate lichen]

well said

[toxic mountain]

I think making DCs be active could help increase the rotation as there are some DCs (other divs) that ppl have said in this thread where DCs are highly inactive

[upper field]

if yall are just asking for tldr everytime just dont read suggestions

[toxic mountain]

-# SC

[toxic mountain]

Nah I'll read it smh

I think it makes sense to have UOC terms but I could see extending the terms could be nice

[upper field]

ehhhh

[toxic mountain]

But you gotta make sure DCs and the AO are active

[upper field]

true

[toxic mountain]

Some DCs are just inactive as hell

And frankly they shouldn't be DC is they are gonna be inactive

Cause then they become UOC and are just as inactive

[ornate lichen]

yeah but nobody is removing them if theyre inactive

which is also a problem

[toxic mountain]

Leading to poor leadership

[sage bane]

you dont think the ao is going to give a crap if the uoc is inactive either do you

[toxic mountain]

And that can be blamed on toml Inactivity imo

[upper field]

because there is no way to measure their activity

[shadow hatch]

finally, lego democracy

[upper field]

quota for dc's 👀

[toxic mountain]

Not if the AO is also inactive

[ornate lichen]

you dont need to measure objectively

[sage bane]

like i truly hope you dont think the ao could care less about the uoc's activity unless they get called on it widely in the community or by other toml

[ornate lichen]

if theyre overall inactive

you dm them

[toxic mountain]

If the AO is active I'm sure they would notice

[ornate lichen]

as ao

[sage bane]

HA

[ornate lichen]

no

[toxic mountain]

But AOs aren't

Horribly active

[sage bane]

once again hoping the ao is active runs into the problem that the ao couldnt give a damn either

[ornate lichen]

imo seven was active, didnt notice a lot of think, till i shined a spotlight on oce

[sage bane]

um

[ornate lichen]

not about the thing

[sage bane]

i wouldnt use seven as a good example

[ornate lichen]

other stuff

i liked seven

i think he was a good ao

[narrow harness]

wdym seven was good

[ornate lichen]

generally active

[toxic mountain]

I definitely didn't get striked by seven once

There are some AOs that are just inactive, imo I think laser is by far one of the more active tomls

[plain burrow]

i aint reading all that

[toxic mountain]

Well, read it

[ornate lichen]

or well, dont

[toxic mountain]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[narrow harness]

Then don’t read it

[sage bane]

he was active sure but he routinely made decisions about the division's operations himself, went around the uoc repeatedly to discuss things that shouldve been discussed with the uoc, and controlled the division himself through the uoc whenever possible

[narrow harness]

but don’t complain saying tl;dr

You either read it or not

[sage bane]

he constantly wanted to be the head researcher, not the ao

which is fine but that probably indicates an unsuitability for ao

considering the ao isnt supposed to be running the show

[ornate lichen]

honestly i agree with seven decisions, everyone saying oce was a great hr but me personally? didnt like her at all but anyways

[winged needle]

I can see why

[toxic mountain]

I still think if terms are gonna be extended and honestly in general if DCs and UOCs arent being active then they should be removed

[ornate lichen]

anyways not the point of discusussion

[fluid garden]

yeah I was going to say if your talking about ard your tripping lmao

[winged needle]

site control

[toxic mountain]

I never had OCE as an HR but she was not my fav person when she was DHR. I hated most of ARD DC+ back then (except flathead)

[ornate lichen]

hmm i have something to ssay about that 🤐

[toxic mountain]

Well not hated

[sage bane]

yeah rc5 is talking about like, one division lol

[toxic mountain]

But did not agree with them

[ornate lichen]

flathead was good but a bit dead

[toxic mountain]

Y'all are active

[narrow harness]

Please do NOT check DMs

[toxic mountain]

❤️

[fluid garden]

we aren't that inactive we do our job

[ornate lichen]

current dc are good

[fluid garden]

we keep things running 🌹

[sage bane]

then say it

[winged needle]

Ard has best ow+ core

[sage bane]

dont tiptoe around it just say it

[fluid garden]

oh yeah some old ard dhrs were, yikes

[ornate lichen]

yeah ^

[sage bane]

we try ❤️

[fluid garden]

I just realized there's wasn't a deny reaction

😭

[toxic mountain]

Who was the 3rd DHR back then

[upper field]

yep

[fluid garden]

auverly

[ornate lichen]

doge sky lava

[toxic mountain]

Nope

[ornate lichen]

what no

[toxic mountain]

Not my Dhrs

[fluid garden]

lava was never dhr

[toxic mountain]

I had Luna, oce

And someone else

[ornate lichen]

oh i confused luna with lava

[upper field]

i actually got frustrated by this thread because it reminded me of the rank stagnation in sc

[fluid garden]

awtribe or uh

what's the other guys name

[toxic mountain]

No

He discharged late 2022

[sage bane]

anyways biggest problem with indefinite term limits would also be that the current uoc isnt the only one capable of being the uoc, and youd just be sticking the division with stagnant ranks for no reason other than not wanting to remove a dictator

[winged needle]

One of the reasons i left sc

[fluid garden]

deny reaction added vote up 🌹

[winged needle]

Even after getting uo

[toxic mountain]

I think it should be extended

But not removed

[upper field]

in 5 days it will be my 7 months as sco

[toxic mountain]

And DC activity needs to be monitored

Is they aren't active replace them

[ornate lichen]

1 year is a lot of time

[fluid garden]

to be fair if your uoc

[toxic mountain]

If*

[winged needle]

😭

[sage bane]

you keep going on about this but all youre talking about is sc

[ornate lichen]

also as UOC you can just choose to resign to UO spots

[fluid garden]

you can perfectly well do everything you wanted to do in that one year

[sage bane]

with their dcs

[median talon]

now personally i think the uocs job needs a refresher

[fluid garden]

ESPECIALLY considering extensions

[ornate lichen]

which i dont like because it blocks leadership in a constant loop

where no new people come unless UO+ discharges

[sage bane]

funniest thing is actually you can resign to DC

[ornate lichen]

even worse

[fluid garden]

if your unable to completely all the goals you wanted to do as UOC in 2 years, that honestly absurd and is just a testament your inactive

[toxic mountain]

Just cuz ppl complain

About them in this thread

[fluid garden]

isn't it ow

[sage bane]

especially because the uoc doesnt have to listen to their dcs or uos at all and can just make decisions on their own

no matter how much anyone disagrees unless its the ao

[fluid garden]

mhmm, and even if you do there's no way it's taking 2 years

[toxic mountain]

UOCs do have a lot of unchecked power

[sinful pollen]

they never go inactive simply cuz they're too lazy to do their job or something. There could be many reasons why DC can do that. At least it could be major frustration that u as DC with current permissions can't push new stuff you want to implement, or u can't push solutions to different problems that've been lingering for years and that only u, as a DC, can clearly see. Similar mess was happening in mdf but for uos

[sage bane]

no seven said once that a uoc could resign to dc and just try for the next uoc term after their successor

[ornate lichen]

uocs have the power to do whatever they want in regards to a division as long as its explainable in some way to the ao and unless ur an idiot

[fluid garden]

what

[sage bane]

🤷

loophole

[upper field]

nxrk resigned to dsc so its true

[sage bane]

but one that no ones going to use because itd take years

[winged needle]

For a little

[fluid garden]

that sounds so extremely stupid what 😭

[upper field]

yes

[toxic mountain]

It would have to be extended periods of inactivity

[upper field]

but he did

[winged needle]

He was planning to retire

But ye

He could have stayed dsc

[ornate lichen]

well ard has a lot of boomers

how much has ols been in ard

[sage bane]

technically with the current system you could negotiate no quota in your division and stay as a lower rank indefinitely

[ornate lichen]

3/4 years?

[sage bane]

it takes a long while to become uoc

[fluid garden]

yss

[median talon]

we do, but 9 times out of 10 i will always have it go to a vote

[toxic mountain]

Tank been in ARD for almost 4 years. Ancient man

[ornate lichen]

you, maybe not others 🤷

[fluid garden]

ols was the batch before me and I've been in ard for 3 1/2 years

[royal quartz]

Its ok guys ill be the best ard uoc

[fluid garden]

so yeah, roughly 3-4 years

[median talon]

i would rather instead of one figure head just have a "council" running ard

[toxic mountain]

ARD OW just don't retire

[ornate lichen]

ive been for 2 and a half im also quite old lol

[toxic mountain]

At all

[upper field]

sc too 😢

[toxic mountain]

90% of the time

[ornate lichen]

no its just that ard progression is extremely low

ive seen people in other divisions take less than a year to get UO

[toxic mountain]

Cuz no UO retire

[fluid garden]

I agree with this, but at least most of us are active so it's not necessarily a huge deal

[ornate lichen]

in ard you dream to get Uo in less than a year

[winged needle]

Sthd

[sage bane]

this is my whole point, uocs dont have to do anything their dcs suggest, and while in ard theres proper voting and such, the uoc could just ignore it still

[fluid garden]

and if your not you get the boot

[toxic mountain]

Yeah

[ornate lichen]

because weve been in for so long we are dedicated

a bit like AIA where they look for long term members

[upper field]

when i joined sc reuory fun truck and vxnny were uo's (1+ year ago), now its reuory fun truck and xel (vxnny got dsc)

[median talon]

i especially hate this ^^

[ornate lichen]

we have been in ard for a while, we have proved we are long term, which is why we dont discarge

[toxic mountain]

How long has walac even been uoc

[median talon]

i actually want to do something but ill fear im overstepping my dcs jurastrictions

[ornate lichen]

also we wait for every major update so we still get to mess around with new shit

ard is retirement division

you get active when theres new cool update

[toxic mountain]

I feel like if DCs unanimous disagree with something their UOC did it should be nullified

[sage bane]

yes but this doesnt eliminate the argument that dcs functionally have no power in their division since the uoc can still just overrule the vote even if its unanimous

you do differently, but theres absolutely fuck all stopping you from just making a decision one day and refusing to hear any input against it

[median talon]

if it happens you tell me to leave

[toxic mountain]

This is why you're the goat

[sage bane]

theres also nothing stopping the next ard uoc from doing so

[median talon]

i will never run ard like that ever

[sage bane]

its tradition that the uoc doesnt unanimously rule by fiat, but thats all it is

[toxic mountain]

Uoc could be a dictator if they so choose

[ornate lichen]

they will eventually get exiled

quite quickly

[fluid garden]

not..really

[sage bane]

no, actually

[toxic mountain]

You assume the AO is active

And cares

[ornate lichen]

if you flood the ao with reports

and if they do shit you go to another toml or ic

[sage bane]

its fully within the uocs power to just ignore their dcs and uos and do whatever they like to the division

[fluid garden]

if we're being honest with ourselves when have you seen AOs make major changes to a division if they aren't pressured to do it by other toml/ic

[sage bane]

seven when it benefitted him or was something he personally wanted changed

[fluid garden]

look at AIA with toby, it was what a year before they realized toby was doing nothing

[toxic mountain]

The entirety of STHD DC+ getting exiled at once

[median talon]

when i became uoc seven said something that stuck with me for my entire term:

"the directorate is your most powerful ally. dont let them turn on you."

[sage bane]

rikka is doing much better and doesnt involve himself nearly as much in the internal decisions

[narrow harness]

Doesn’t your term end soon

[median talon]

theres more to what he said but not for this channel 🤫

[toxic mountain]

Only when we need his toml perms for stuff

[ornate lichen]

imo AO should

[fluid garden]

😔

[ornate lichen]

thery should be monitoring the division

[golden oasis]

🤔

[fluid garden]

no not at all

[narrow harness]

what game do I play

please tell

[fluid garden]

AO is geninuely just supposed to be a supervisor

[golden oasis]

City skylines 2

[ornate lichen]

you supervise by getting involved

[toxic mountain]

They are there to make sure the command is fucking around

[narrow harness]

wait I forgot I have no internet

noooooo

[fluid garden]

if they see the UOC fucking up, then they step in but otherwise they shouldn't be getting out of the way and allow the directorate to handle changes

[sage bane]

that may be true for how ard runs (generally) but its not necessarily true for every division

its mostly true for ard since historically duties have been split to such a degree that without the dcs, the uoc would struggle immensely

[golden oasis]

Use mobile hotspot

[median talon]

thats true

[ornate lichen]

dcs dont do much do they

[narrow harness]

From PC?

[golden oasis]

Phone -> PC

[sage bane]

LOL

[ornate lichen]

they do a bit but like i reckon its like any other division

[fluid garden]

you mean us or other divisions dcs

[ornate lichen]

you

[golden oasis]

I do stuff in my assigned positions

[narrow harness]

Wait doesn’t like every divisions UOC term end in like 3 months

[fluid garden]

we do a solid bit, from what I understand though we do more than other divisions

[toxic mountain]

No

[fluid garden]

no? 😭

[toxic mountain]

Extensions exist

[fluid garden]

it's a year with a extension

[ornate lichen]

he means from now on i think

[toxic mountain]

Proud got UOC 2 months ago

[narrow harness]

AO’s don’t hand out extensions to everyone tho

[fluid garden]

it can end early if you mess up though

[narrow harness]

TOML’s said 3 months a few weeks back for AIA and ARD

[toxic mountain]

If you're being a good UOC then you should get an extension

[sage bane]

dcs are basically mini-uocs in their assigned positions in ard, we are responsible for our assigned sections (and technically the overall division)

the uoc oversees the lot of it and steps in where needed

this is in contrast to other divs where thats not necessarily true, though it may be to some extent

[toxic mountain]

Unless you don't want jt

[narrow harness]

Keyword should

[fluid garden]

that's a different story that is difficult to resolve

[toxic mountain]

I could see UOCs being able to request more than 1 extension

[ornate lichen]

no

[toxic mountain]

But they cant

[fluid garden]

that's basically the point of chairmans idea

[narrow harness]

wait ols has been here for one year no?

[zenith tusk]

could anyone give some insight on to why mdf has a lot of uos

what do they all do...

[fluid garden]

in like 2 or 3 months yes

[narrow harness]

his term

[toxic mountain]

Not yet

[fluid garden]

@karmic hamlet

[narrow harness]

so his term ends in like 9 months!

?

[zenith tusk]

👍

[fluid garden]

from how I understand their uos are highly sectioned off in what they do

[narrow harness]

I hate the ? Being next to the !

[toxic mountain]

Still tho. How long has walac been uoc

[fluid garden]

and what I mean by that is 1 UO runs this one specific thing, the next runs THIS specific one thing

[toxic mountain]

Of aia

[narrow harness]

He has 3 months left

iirc

or w

2

[fluid garden]

and so on, with 1 overwatch who looks over the other overwatch (they might removed this but idk)

[toxic mountain]

Yeah but he's been UOC for almost 2 years

[narrow harness]

yeah

[fluid garden]

he was exempted from the rule at first

but ig smth changed to force him to have a term

[narrow harness]

All of TOML’s

TOML’s voted

and

now term

[toxic mountain]

Well there's no DCs of AIA lol

[zenith tusk]

like 7 specific things 😭

[sage bane]

probably toml upset he still hasnt actually gotten a dc

cause he's holding power

[toxic mountain]

Literally orgashi for DC

[median talon]

our dcs do lots yes

[sage bane]

and ruling with a council of uos in aia

[narrow harness]

I don’t think any AIA ow want DC

[fluid garden]

yeah pretty much, it works good in ard because everyone actually has a job but idk for mdf

[median talon]

the do their indiviual role and they come to me with ideas

[zenith tusk]

yea but ard has all this in game content

[median talon]

and most times ill ask them to trial run it and show me that its effective

[fluid garden]

like for ard it keeps everything organized and makes sure stuff gets done in a reasonable timeframe

[zenith tusk]

mdf just kills people and has mrt

[fluid garden]

its not necessarily just that that ow do

[toxic mountain]

You would not believe

The amount of upkeep

Marshee does

For certian things

[fluid garden]

a lot of our job is outside of game

[toxic mountain]

With most of it being sent to Darius tho

[ornate lichen]

LOL 😭

true

[narrow harness]

breh

[fluid garden]

oh Lord you should seen the old hdps 😭

[toxic mountain]

It's factual

[ornate lichen]

imo ive been the most active one but idk im not that og

[toxic mountain]

Somewhat

[median talon]

marshy does a lot of upkeep but so does the rest of my dhrs. super with aast, pew with his internal roles

[ornate lichen]

i think ive done a lot

[toxic mountain]

Yeah

[ornate lichen]

🤷

[fluid garden]

your dha dummy

[narrow harness]

@golden oasis now that you are a Veteran Operative you can finally rest

[fluid garden]

💀

[ornate lichen]

i dintt know what hdps stood for so i figured u were talking about me

LOL

[toxic mountain]

Darius has one of the more active roles

[ornate lichen]

i figured what it coudlve stood for

[toxic mountain]

For UO

[ornate lichen]

but i wasnt sure

[narrow harness]

@frail latch get off inac

bruh

Your inac like ended

[golden oasis]

yesyes

[toxic mountain]

He gotta earn that Unit Cadet rank tho

[golden oasis]

Fr

Gotta lock in for unit cadet

[narrow harness]

Uncle Cadet

[glossy vigil]

explain this in fortnite terms

[mossy delta]

Overthrowing Paladin arc.

[karmic hamlet]

we have 6 uos mate

[toxic mountain]

I think ard has the same

[zenith tusk]

but what do they all do

do they all have a certain # personnel assigned

[toxic mountain]

But we also have like 15 more members

[zenith tusk]

or is it section/work based

[toxic mountain]

Join mdf to find out

[zenith tusk]

ig 😭

[glossy vigil]

^^^^^^^

[toxic mountain]

Ngl UO positions probably shouldn't be classified

Except for maybe aia

Cuz it's aia

[fluid garden]

oh yall removed the chief uo thing?

[karmic hamlet]

yeah

[toxic mountain]

That could just be a DC position

[whole socket]

What’s the no access stuff

[whole socket]

Didn’t we have like 8 uos at one point

Then sthd bullied yall so you changed the system

[karmic hamlet]

we had like 10 uo and jow

[whole socket]

Wait no we had like 15 people in leadership

[karmic hamlet]

one cuo

4 dc+

[whole socket]

Nah nah

I can name them

Babykitty you stary gabry me oxo alio dan shadow delcious that one officer Dmk

12

I remember when you guys changed the system stary said smth about sthd talking about us

[glossy vigil]

fr

[fluid garden]

wtf

geninuely why

[karmic hamlet]

star was waffling

[crisp stone]

can I have a tldr of this

[karmic hamlet]

dw

[crisp stone]

😄

[wild bough]

This is interesting.

[karmic hamlet]

cuz we had some lazy mfs...

[wild bough]

I like the base idea.

[fluid garden]

yeah I can't tell 10 is geninuely insane

[wild bough]

I feel like it’s a little flawed in the sense of bringing the wider division into it.

Because obviously there’s.. like. Bias and popularity contests essentially to take into consideration.

But it can work if the names for the info isn’t anonymous to the AO.
Seeing if someone speaks bad to actively sabotage someone, the AO would know that the person doesn’t take the division seriously or constructively enough so or wants the position themselves.

[vague cradle]

DoD aint that serious for you to write a whole paragraph for uoc

[wild bough]

I don’t say this to many ppl but actually stfu

[vague cradle]

what i do

[wild bough]

Ur not a divisional

[vague cradle]

dod is roblox

aint that serious

[wild bough]

Sure sure

[vague cradle]

bro ts roblox

not an actual job 😭

[wild bough]

And?

Ur not a divisional.

Stfu.

[vague cradle]

dont matter

this is a game

[wild bough]

And?

[vague cradle]

not that serious for you to be crying over it like your life depends on it

[wild bough]

Ur not a divisional. Stfu.

[vague cradle]

get a grip

😭

[wild bough]

Don’t read suggestions if ur not gonna constructively contribute.

[upper field]

both chill out

[whole socket]

Half were inactive

[vague cradle]

i am constructively contributing

[whole socket]

Some were just burned out

[vague cradle]

by saying this game isnt that serious

[wild bough]

Start saying the same thing on all the other suggestions then,

[upper field]

you are just an operative, many things ahead of you

[whole socket]

Imagine being a junior overwatch for 2 months

[glossy vigil]

take that mdf tag off boy

[wild bough]

Either way, for a non divisional, shut up.

[whole socket]

Take it off me

[wild bough]

This is a divisional thing.

[true forge]

valid statement lowkey

[vague cradle]

hmm

[glossy vigil]

where pksf tag at😂

[brisk vector]

i became the same rank as the people who recruited me in sc 🥀

[vague cradle]

but im contributing to this problem

[whole socket]

The pksf server?

[upper field]

if i dont get uo for the next couple of months im prob gonna discharge

[glossy vigil]

wear it then g represent your division

[whole socket]

Xele had to wait like a year

[sage bane]

temp duty marker overrides

[whole socket]

I secretly don’t fw them

[vague cradle]

yea me too

pksf are mean

[upper field]

as i said i get my 7 month mark as sco in 5 days

[wild bough]

Tbh I think as a whole.

Management of a majority of divisions needs reshuffling a bit.

[whole socket]

Ima join aia

If Kylo can I can

[wild bough]

Or at least relooking into.

[glossy vigil]

dw bro ima make a few calls and get u uo soon

[upper field]

kylo is aia?

[upper field]

thx 🙏 🥹

[whole socket]

He was in the apia

[wild bough]

ARD and AIA are the only two recent divisions im in but if def seen a couple things with OW+ in both issue wise.

[whole socket]

Didn’t pass ig

[wild bough]

The UOC term limits won’t change much if like

The OW themselves arent the best either

[vague cradle]

were u a raider b4 u joined aegisv

[whole socket]

No

[ornate lichen]

so

[wild bough]

The AOs kinda need to be actively checking stuff.

[ornate lichen]

what u werent?

[wild bough]

With that.

[brisk vector]

if this suggestion gets implemented it’s gonna take even longer, dc promotions only happen if there’s a new uoc

[vague cradle]

he was hes lying

[whole socket]

I think I’d know if I was a raider

[wild bough]

I’m surprised out of everything complained about, this is the thing Dylan chose to address.

[upper field]

the current system is good

1 year is long enough to get fun from being uoc

and u can step down to dc

[rich wind]

trading stfu

[upper field]

or uo

new uoc will bring new ideas

and people move up in the ranks

[wild bough]

How would you know gang youve been a Roblox player since July, this guys been in aegis since before even that.

[vague cradle]

bro no ones talking to you

😭

[upper field]

prevents the situation of uoc just sitting at the rank and doing nothing

[whole socket]

Because this is like the highest level of complaints

The 6 uocs

[wild bough]

I feel like having reviews are good, but there’s nothing wrong with long term letting people keep positions. I just think we need like-

[rich wind]

https://tenor.com/view/dono-wall-gif-24048347

[wild bough]

Essentially breathing room for UOCs.

Same thing with ToMLs tbh.

[upper field]

😢

[whole socket]

Why did you just cut yourself off

What are we doing bro

[wild bough]

A time where they can choose to step down if they’re getting burnt out or if they’re not doing enough get demoted to a safe holding spot so they can get back to it.

[wild bough]

I was trying to think of how specifically to word it

Because my brain jumps ahead faster than my fingers can type and I can’t reliably keep a train of thought.

[upper field]

its good system if people will actually realize they do not have time and step down

[wild bough]

So better getting it out and then follow up after if I think there’s a different way of putting it lol

[upper field]

but seeing how current sc dsc is doing

i dont think its a good idea

[wild bough]

Lookin at AIA uo+ too tbh

It feels like things are slowly grinding to a bit of a halt divisional ow wise

It’s a comfortable position without many risks or changes needed

and like

People honestly don’t need to stress

(In regards to activity I mean)

[whole socket]

Are they active

I haven’t seen either of them ingame fora few months

After rtv got demoted he kinda just disappeared

[upper field]

rtv from my perspective, no, vxnny decent

from sco perspective

not sure about uo

[whole socket]

Bros last message 😭 #aegis message

[raven adder]

chairman deliberately posted it here instead of JDC so divisionless could talk about it

[wild bough]

This guy is never gonna be in a division regardless

[sage bane]

cough no dc

[raven adder]

thats a bit rude

your whole attitude towards him is rude

i dont see an issue with what he's said

[wild bough]

Legit

Oh and some of our UO are kinda inactive

(not orgashi, homies fine he’s on IN so that’s ok)

(He’s doing great)

(Even still active on IN)

[hazy scarab]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008037773342670960/1353447005380149318/attachment.gif

[whole socket]

You think he’s not that lazy?

He pinged all of the divisons

[obsidian glen]

I mean I commented

bc im based

[carmine egret]

all this to make me resign from AED uoc position i see

[wild bough]

lol

[near bobcat]

how is u here

[carmine egret]

i was pinged with the mention "Division Head"

[agile basalt]

Hmm

[near bobcat]

are u division head of wastelander division 🤔

[wild bough]

lol

[sinful pollen]

we need to make u resign from Verified position

[carmine egret]

⁉️

[sinful pollen]

https://tenor.com/view/оооо-gif-16692418516363327078

[carmine egret]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1142236212933972038/1403425369104584894/togif.gif

[feral palm]

this might be peak

i have a lot to say about this... yap soon

[wild bough]

YESMAAM

damn right u do

[pulsar oxide]

I don't know enough about all this to say anything about it.

[dusty wing]

https://tenor.com/view/essay-incoming-sonic-sonic-movie-litdad-litdad2-gif-22510083

[wild bough]

i mean even if u dont like know much about the uoc system it is worth mentioning if theres anythin connected to it (such as ow/dc inactivity due to not being in the position or an inactive uoc not enforcing things)

bringing more context to why this might be an issue can also help find links that can bring about solutions

[ancient ingot]

What i would recommend is instead of a one year term every year the entire division votes on if the UOC stays in charge, this is anomalously sent to the AO to remove any sort of bias. If they're happy with the current UOC they will stay in charge, if they're not the uocs term will end and they will be replaced.

[dusty wing]

im pretty satisfied with how the uoc system works right now

the only flaw of it would be really good uocs being removed after their term ends but that almost never happens

[wild bough]

aint that comin from the most inactive division lol

[dusty wing]

hr wise yes

lr wise no

[wild bough]

ik

[pulsar oxide]

The problem is that I know almost nothing and rarely see anyone from L-6+. This may be because I don't usually need to interact with them in any way.

[lilac lance]

1550

🥀

[sage bane]

🤷 what do you want to know

[pulsar oxide]

Something that I can base my opinion on when choosing between DHRs

[sage bane]

what do you mean by that

[graceful quiver]

Dylan's problem with this approach is that people will use the opportunity to levy for their own power, skewing the results of the performance review.

[still siren]

That still reduces it to a popularity contest. If a UOC is active with his OW/DC+ but not with the rest of the division, is he a bad UOC?

(not counting the ao involvement part)

[ancient ingot]

It can also be that if the AO believes he is not fullfilling the tasks then he could also be removed but a UOC should generally be evident on what they're doing similar to what progress UOs are up to. This can obviously be seen by the divisions progress over the year.

However there can also be a issue where the uoc never communicates to people outside of ow, and that would only be harmful internally, so its why if we have a voting system it would involve every member regardless of position to help eliminate internal directorate bias. Same goes for if a ow or dc is hungry for the uoc position.

Wider range of votes assists with giving the AO a wider range of data to make a output on the decision

[quaint olive]

sc leadership is cooked

[graceful quiver]

look all due respect, but i dont want trialing members to tell me what my uoc should be

[quaint olive]

implement this system asap

[ancient ingot]

Say if the votes section on lets say a google document also includes a section on why they're having issues or why they're finding them good for their UOC position

And if tomls decide trialings are exempt then thats fine but i do believe data of the low ranks output would help gather a wider picture on the uocs performance. And its certainly better then just removing a term limit and having everything revert to the prior issues of a poor quality UOC staying in their position for years. Which ultimately harmed the group.

[graceful quiver]

i like the performance review being vested in the AO

like what dylan recommended

and yes i guess i am biased

but get the PR thing, get all the votes, and then we write a review based on that and our personal observations

[ancient ingot]

Mix the two together all about creating a picture if the UOC should stay or be replaced

[graceful quiver]

yes

we arent just gonna release a vote and then remove a UOC based on what the votes come out as

thats stupid

[crisp stone]

totally agree with you

[feral palm]

ok yap time, I have read over this ENTIRE thread, discussion, and original post. You're welcome.

The issue with terms

As Chairman mentioned, there is an inherent flaw with divisional terms. I will keep this brief, as the post already covers it in a great way.
Main points of interest:

• UOCs getting removed when they haven't actually done anything wrong for the sake of rotation
• UOCs being perfectly capable, running the division well, and being replaced with a less-capable candidate for the sake of rotation
• The "sake of rotation" argument, in my opinion, is extremely egotisical and is NOT that deep what so ever.
  • If you think you can run a division better, great! But that shouldn't mean you have to remove a perfectly capable leader when they do not need replacing yet. At the end of the day, you are here in a leadership position to do what's best for the division. You shouldn't be hungry for more as a UO/DC to the point that you need to call for removal because you are too impatient to hold your own position for more than a few months.
  • This also brings the point of building a stronger, more successful team of Overwatch as well as DCs. Having an entire team of capable personnel that are working together instead of being at each other's throats for a promotion is what keeps divisions stable and flourishing.
• Division stability is also a key point. If a UOC is serving well, this keeps the division stable. Forceful rotations cause instability, uncertainty, and rifts amongst divisional personnel and their leaders. This is a HUGE issue that I do not see addressed very often.

The suggestion posted

While I believe the suggestion itself here is already great, I also have my own takeaways from it that (hopefully) get addressed. Currently, I do not speak on behalf of all divisions. I have only ever been in AIA, with the exception of interning in PKSF for a week(?) at one point. So, most of my concerns will be on behalf of AIA and my limited public knowledge of other divisions. Regardless, I am sure a lot of my concerns stretch to other divisions as well.

The flow chart looks great. The idea of evaluations after each year is a fantastic idea, and overall, I believe this will benefit every division in some way.
I believe a lot of people reading this suggestion got confused, and stated these points:

• "What if my UOC gets comfortable or goes inactive because of the security this offers?"
  • This was addressed. Evaluations can be pushed early if there are infractions, this will be up to the current AO. No UOC will just be able to "hog" the position if they aren't contributing actively.
• The issue of popularity bias.
  • While I do agree this is a very real and valid concern, generally speaking, most AOs should be competent enough to tell the difference between a coup and genuine concerns or issues. If this isn't the case, that AO should be removed as well, as Chairman said he would do.
• "But (insert name of popular person here) has been stuck at this rank for a year!"
  • Please get over yourself and read what I said before. Stability takes priority over your ego.
• Divisions coming to a halt, or going "stale" with leadership.
  • Stability, as mentioned before, is good. If each member of leadership is doing their job well and actively contributing, why would that need changing? This is something that is brought up a lot, and I see no other arguments other than the ones mentioned above. If things are getting "stale" due to inactivity, remove the leadership that cause that issue! Keep the cogs turning.

(cont)

Additional concerns and suggestions

Of course, this was posted because Chairman would like our input and the suggestion itself isn't perfect nor is it finalized. Coming from my standpoint, in the division I am, I see a lot of things around AIA and what's publicly known about other divisions. I pay a lot of attention to these kinds of things, as it's just what I do. I have some suggestions and ideas to further improve and expand upon this thread.

• The issue of other leadership (UO/DCs) not being addressed. For the sake of simplicity, I will address these members as leadership in the yap below.
  • This right here is a key issue I see time and time again both in AIA and in other divisions. Whether that be leadership being inactive, unresponsive, failing to communicate, or being unapproachable by lower ranks, this also cannot go ignored.
  • My proposition is to actually combat this issue as well with the polls suggested. When the poll comes around, or perhaps make this quarterly, there should also be a section on leadership performance for each individual member. I have seen MANY complaints in almost every division that has "that one UO" that doesn't pull their weight in the division, or they're impossible to approach because of hostility, lack of response, or other very valid reasons.
• Difficulty filing complaints, or other concerns to a direct pathway that will not get cycled back to the individual complained about.
  • There should, at all times, be an outlet for divisional members to either anonymously or not, file a complaint about their UOC and/or divisional leadership. This should be in operation outside of the yearly poll.
  • This outlet should be readily available and be checked regularly by the AO. This can cover activity concerns, incidents, or other general concerns from divisional members. If there are enough reports, or the report is severe enough, it should initiate an investigation from the AO on these concerns.
  • Sometimes, I feel as if some divisional members do not feel comfortable making any sort of complaints about their UOC/leadership. This can be for a multitude of reasons, including, but not limited to; fear of bias, fear of losing promotions, fear of making it "look" like they're trying to get promoted unfairly, or generally just not wanting to make yourself known or attached to the issue.
• Transparency within divisions to their lower ranks.
  • This right here is an issue I see in almost every division, and it's been mentioned in this thread multiple times.
  • This is a lack of transparency for what the UOC and divisional leadership are up to; namely, behind the scenes, "classified" things, and similar.
  • Whilst a degree of classification and internal operations are expected and needed, there should be a point of transparency on how each member of leadership and the UOC is contributing. This should be rectified.
  • This can be changed by transparency shouts, more communication with lower ranks, and keeping the ENTIRE division up to date on what's happening where possible. If it's something classified, just say "(insert leadership) has made (number) contributions this month", and have it as a general statistic. Just give us some transparency, please!
• Lastly, the voting itself. While I do believe the entire division should get a say, I also see the issue of newer members, interns, etc. do not fully see the division and its leadership in its entirety yet.
  • This can be combatted by making it so, when the poll comes out, divisional members have to be serving in the division for (x) amount of time first.
  • Additionally, you could also impose that the "trialing" equivalents in each division do not get to vote until they rank up. This will also include interns.
  • This will reduce the risk of someone not knowing anything about the division yet having too much say in this process.

[crisp stone]

holy

[obsidian glen]

holy yapatron 9000

[sage bane]

@crisp stone you dont need to delete your comment about laser

[graceful quiver]

im not reading allat

[feral palm]

have fun reading chat

[sage bane]

i dont think he's gonna do anything to you if you critisize him

[feral palm]

im not tldring it because everything is important

[crisp stone]

it’s a joke but okay

[feral palm]

essay posted

[crisp stone]

tldrs are so annoying

Like if u can’t be bothered to read it

just leave atp

[graceful quiver]

even if i was biased, i would be biased in favor of my UOC cause i got no problems with walac

LOL

[feral palm]

i gotchu pooks

[feral palm]

real. attention spans are fried

[feral palm]

@graceful quiver if you could, make sure this gets to chairman

[crisp stone]

no

it means less work for u

[wild bough]

AFUCKINGMEN

[crisp stone]

less paper work

no need to type up shouts

[wild bough]

brooooo the amount of ppl who ask for tldrs who 'i aint reading allat' are so annoying

[wild bough]

also goated essay yes

[graceful quiver]

give me the cliffnotes version

how about that

LOL

[tardy cipher]

Holy shit😭

[obsidian glen]

I like my TLDR the most

[sage bane]

i think the desire to become uoc is less about power and more about actually being able to make an impact

[dusty wing]

as per chatgpt

[sage bane]

you and chairman both seem to be confusing "want to actually do something beneficial but the uoc doesnt give a fuck about anyone but themselves" with "desires for power"

[graceful quiver]

oh the transparency argument again, how many times are they gonan default to that

[sage bane]

the problem with uocs getting stagnant is that they do feel comfortable in becoming closer and closer to dictators

[crisp stone]

smh don’t you love transparency

[sage bane]

and sure you can rail against "oh the uo's and dc's just want more power" all you want, its not fixing that theres more ability to actually do anything vested in the uoc than anyone else in the division

[graceful quiver]

i think if you want to have a say in that shit you should earn it

[ornate lichen]

i agree with super

[graceful quiver]

like i did and others did

it shouldnt just be handed to u

[sage bane]

like yes everyone wants the ability to fix what they see as problems in the division

[crisp stone]

fair

[sage bane]

no, becoming dc doesnt give you the ability to do anything about it

[ornate lichen]

it does

[sage bane]

only the uoc has the ability to actually make things happen

[ornate lichen]

even UO

[wild bough]

@nova ruin https://gyazo.com/dd0c881b8ef41a690bf71a5e3acaf9b5

[sage bane]

if the uoc decides to let dcs do stuff thats on them

[ornate lichen]

as UO your ideas have a lot more potential

[graceful quiver]

it shouldnt be our responsibility to keep people informed, theres no public board of directors here, its a flat hierarchy system

[sage bane]

but its a power they can just withhold at whim

[ornate lichen]

if youre a nobody you need to convince an UO to actually somewhat consider it and trust in them to optimize it

[sage bane]

no the fuck they dont lol

in ard sure

[crisp stone]

do DCs have the power to overrule the UOC

[ornate lichen]

and as uo you get the ability to actually argue others points

[sage bane]

but thats only because traditionally UOs have been given a lot of power

[crisp stone]

like 3/3 DCs say no

[sage bane]

no

[crisp stone]

but the UOC is still focused on implementing it

[sage bane]

even if every dc agrees the uoc could overrule them all

thats why im saying its a bad thing to stagnate the uoc

also because dcs cant comment on the uocs refusal there in anything more than vague terms without leaking classified chats

[ornate lichen]

why cant comment

[sage bane]

so the rest of the division might think things are hunky dory but the dcs would know the truth

[ornate lichen]

just go to the AO

[sage bane]

LOL you think the ao is going to give two iotas of a fuck

[graceful quiver]

i do

😎

[sage bane]

you do

[ornate lichen]

i dont understand wym

[sage bane]

some care less than you

[sage bane]

you think the majority of AOs care about their division past "no marshal allegations right? right"

[ornate lichen]

id hope so

if not theres always ahrd

[graceful quiver]

and even if that were true super, it doesnt justify removing people after an arbitrary time limit regardless if they've done anything wrong or not.

[ornate lichen]

and if theres enough complaints, chairman will get involved in an IC case

[feral palm]

if your uoc isn't working with you as a team, bring that concern to the poll. it is a valid and true concern that should be looked into and rectified.
this isn't to be confused with disagreements, however, as those are healthy and needed in a division

[sage bane]

i notice you dont seem to refute my central argument of "dc's cant actually do anything in such an 'administrative' position"

[graceful quiver]

i think if you get members of UO/DC to agree then you should be able to override the UOC. but thats a separate issue from divisional terms

[sage bane]

lets make this more relevant to you, say all 5 AIA UOs decided they want to stop banning for innocent usage of alt

but walac said "nope, dont think its a good idea"

[crisp stone]

refreshing UOCs brings new ideas to the table

[sage bane]

nothing that can really be done, since the uoc in hicom guidelines currently has the ability to just say hell no

[sage bane]

precisely

think of OCE versus ols

[feral palm]

^

[graceful quiver]

^

[crisp stone]

idk I’m to young to know about OCE

[sage bane]

oce brought a lot more relaxed guidelines to the table, ols went much farther back to the olden days with stricter guidelines compliance

each uoc brings a unique perspective to the division that they lead with

[graceful quiver]

good, people were fucking horrendous under OCE

[crisp stone]

ig a majority of almost every UO/DC disagrees the UOC can’t move forward

[ornate lichen]

no oce was breaking guidelines herself and saying dont do what she does but what she says

[obsidian glen]

Pretty sure every UOC does that to some degree

[graceful quiver]

well there you go, a non issue has already been solved super

LOL

[obsidian glen]

Its just some people take it too far

[graceful quiver]

what did ols do that was so bad!!!

[crisp stone]

uh

beans

[sage bane]

and the AO you think is going to care about "oh some leadership members disagree"

chairman literally said that the poll would reflect the entire division, who might not all be able to be aware of the discussion

[feral palm]

a good ao would investigate and mediate. if they do not, they need to be replaced

lazor would certainly look into it, knowing him as our ao

[graceful quiver]

have u ever seen a star trek number one take over control of the ship from the captain?

[feral palm]

if yours doesn't, that's a whole new issue that won't be solved by rotation

it'll just repeat

[ornate lichen]

so make them aware

[sage bane]

took away the fursuits /s

(kidding obviously, he's a good uoc)

[sage bane]

if this was reality i think itd be way less concerning to have a uoc ruling for life

but its not

[graceful quiver]

he gets 3 members of the senior staff to agree with him, then command is vested in the first officer.

[sage bane]

and hicom hasnt made it reality in the multitude of years theyve had to add it as an actual feature

[graceful quiver]

so DC/UO agreeing should override the UOC

thats the way i see it

now the number of staff you'd need is another story

[sage bane]

i dont disagree but

[graceful quiver]

im not sure

[sage bane]

youre a toml

wheres the toml vote to make it a thing

[nova ruin]

LOL

[sage bane]

bwahaha

[crisp stone]

staff isn’t an issue if

[graceful quiver]

wow thank u for your contribution roblox

[feral palm]

i have seen this done in other groups before and it has not gone well, getting abused and used as a mini coup with zero consequence. while the uoc needs to be in-check as far as working with the division's leadership, there also needs to be a line of mediation. if there is that major of a disagreement between the uoc and leadership, then the ao should mediate a discussion in a formal setting to come to a resolve. there should be no "overriding" the uoc's decisions by their subordinates, as that takes away from their authority as a whole

[crisp stone]

ur welcome

I will always support you ❤️

[graceful quiver]

running a division should be a collaborative effort

good if it takes away from their authority

[feral palm]

this comes from experience of being on roblox for 10 years, it really isn't that simple

[graceful quiver]

i see no downsides

[ornate lichen]

other groups are not aegis

imo coup whatnot can be prevented by AO

[wild bough]

yknow what

[ornate lichen]

if not, ahrd

[wild bough]

lowk love seeing actual

[feral palm]

i am not saying nothing should be done, please re-read. i am simply saying mediation from the ao should be used in cases of disagreements

[wild bough]

like

conversation happening about this

[storm summit]

its so peak.

[karmic rose]

too many text walls

this sucks

[graceful quiver]

super said the AOs dont give a damn, it would work in AIA but not in other places

[storm summit]

says the divisionless

[wild bough]

truly is

[feral palm]

mine summarizes everything

[karmic rose]

i wont read any

[feral palm]

all of everything in the thread

[karmic rose]

i like the white one

[feral palm]

then those aos are the issue, not the leadership below them. they should be put in-check or replaced

deal with the root cause, not the smaller issues caused by it

[graceful quiver]

hah, thats not gonna happen

[crisp stone]

typically don’t AOs like to side with like UOcs

[feral palm]

chairman already said he would if an ao is not able to keep their division in line

[karmic rose]

disband the toml monopoly already

thank you

[obsidian glen]

I beg to differ

[feral palm]

depends on the situation. noah regularly disagreed with walac on various things, and i see the same with lazor

and that's just the publicly known stuff

who knows what happens behind the scenes

[crisp stone]

hmmm

laser reveal the whole AIA operation to us all

[graceful quiver]

i dont disagree with him persay, im just trying to keep his eye on the ball

[storm summit]

join aia to find out

[graceful quiver]

lol

[crisp stone]

handpick me

[feral palm]

and that's exactly what we need

[crisp stone]

ask @wild bough about my skills

[storm summit]

And you sir are a good ao because of it

[crisp stone]

or maybe you like the gossip

a little bit of online argument

[karmic rose]

im gonna get some terminally ill make a wish kid to give me his final wish so i can get freeranked into aia

[graceful quiver]

me and walac have never had an argument since i've been AO

our conversations are actually pretty civil

[feral palm]

and thats how it should be 👏

the lack of this in aegis is INSANE

or really any roblox group

[crisp stone]

Lego beef is fun you gotta agree

seeing little kids argue and stuff

[karmic rose]

yea

[crisp stone]

and try to prove their ban and moderation was false

[karmic rose]

js alt and move on

[feral palm]

@storm summit burn this man alive

[crisp stone]

if ur gonna alt at least don’t make it main account_alt

[storm summit]

he’s a ragebaiter

ignore him

[feral palm]

no i know

[karmic rose]

woow

are we profiling now

[storm summit]

plus a divisionless lowrank

so he is irrelevant

[crisp stone]

L

[feral palm]

LMAO

[karmic rose]

ur getting tked

fat fuck

[feral palm]

yeah what's the divless lr even doing in this thread anyways

[crisp stone]

ur getting eco’d

[feral palm]

no meaningful contributions just ragebait

outta here

[crisp stone]

this is why I suggested 2 threads

One in JDC

[storm summit]

Thats not very kind

[karmic rose]

the alt generator in question:

[crisp stone]

For civil sense full talks

And one over here for random shit

[feral palm]

would have been better if it was posted there in the first place tbh

aegis comms is full of people like @karmic rose

[graceful quiver]

ezera just said theres no civil conversations in aegis guys, so lets try to have one here without this disrespect, please

[karmic rose]

whats wrong with me

[storm summit]

they certainly arent as common as one could hope

[feral palm]

civil discussions in aegis yeah right

LOL

[karmic rose]

i hate being civilized on the internet

let me call people slurs for no reason in peace

[feral palm]

regardless i have made my points and shall vanish to the realms of aia and paperwork

[graceful quiver]

nobody is saying you have to be here

if you dont like it then go somewhere else

[storm summit]

get rid of shaquisha 🗣️ 🔥

[karmic rose]

unfortunately im banned everywhere else and im too lazy to switch accounts

also im too lazy to get vencord web

[graceful quiver]

and you're proud of that? damn, thats kinda sad

LOL

[karmic rose]

not really

[storm summit]

I think we can kill him

[graceful quiver]

ok get back on topic

[karmic rose]

theres a reason ur in aia and not a combative division boy...

[storm summit]

theres also a reason i was a UO of a combative division please remain on topic

[karmic rose]

std dosent count

[graceful quiver]

what did i say you two knock it off

take it to dms

[storm summit]

“Please remain on topic”

[karmic rose]

do i look good for 20

[merry owl]

why does @karmic rose exist

[karmic rose]

who is this random pinging me

[merry owl]

hes very unintelligent and empty minded

[karmic rose]

friendly fire

[carmine egret]

https://tenor.com/view/wesker-albert-albert-wesker-resident-evil-resident-evil-4-gif-5143688443782660001

[karmic hamlet]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1029469165976834071/1437206362198380666/caption.gif

[lilac lance]

yap yap ok

i agree with everything

but from a psychological look

[marsh vale]

shut up drhoouse before something bad happens

dont make my eyes turn red boy

[lilac lance]

if rotation stops or takes way too long, (eg 1 year and 6 months plus), the said divisional and overwatches will basically be rank locked, the living proof is basically aa staff, repeat the same shit, no promotion, gets boring over time since the mindset is to reach the highest rank possible within a division (uoc)

[karmic hamlet]

tuff

[lilac lance]

i agred with everything, stability > rotation, but you cant expect division to be stable after quite the amount of time, especially if uoc is good as fuck, which basically rank locks the dc and uo's for an idenfinite amount of time, eventually rank locking jow's too

which usually would mean no actual flow throughout division after the trialing rank

[lilac lance]

do i run when your eyes turn red

[karmic hamlet]

i think a better way of looking at this, is to give uocs more time where there is the absence of a competent individual to take the place of the current uoc

[lilac lance]

works too

[karmic hamlet]

because what if a dc leaves like a month before the uoc and there's only a new dc

the new dc is cooked

[lilac lance]

the mentioned tactic is great and allat, but, always have to look in a psychological way, especially with long waited promotions

which proof is basically aa staff

[timber flower]

I am pretty sure they would say you need to be an SCO a few more months 💀

[timber flower]

Brochacho dont discharge 🙏

[fluid garden]

i honestly really like what your getting at and you worded it perfectly, but i feel your neglecting the fact that the division going "stale" as you stated with the leadership is a genuine issue and shouldn't be tossed to ensure the "stability" of the division

for example...lets take OCE (ignoring what happened with them)
OCE overall at least from my perspective, was a pretty okay UOC but there were quite a bit of things that they did wrong that overall just, wasnt that great for the division. A LOT of enforcement issues arised during her leadership and just, no one really seemed to notice it and just kept going on and it just became the norm. But because OCE never really did anything bad and the division was still "stable" overall, with this system i cant really picture the large majority of ARD being "yeah lets remove them!" with the only reason the division was still running good, was because of the rest of ARD leadership.

now with the system we have in place right now, its allowed ols to become the UOC of ARD and ARD has improved significantly, we barely have any significant enforcement issues anymore and he's doing amazing at running ARD.

Now what if this system was in place and OCE remained to be UOC? From how it stood at that moment, no one would've really realized that our division wasn't being run great by our current UOC (just like how i did until ols became our uoc!) and OCE wouldve effectively remained in place forever, and in turn it preventing other leadership members who could've ran the division even better from ever getting the shot at being UOC

i might've worded this very shittly

but tl;dr for you nerds that can't read more than a paragraph
Just because a division is "stable", doesn't mean its being ran efficiently by its UOC. And in turn with this system, it'd lead to the issue of other leadership within that said division who could've brought forth new ideas and run the division so much better to eventually just end up discharging, stopping whatever they could've done to help in changing the division

[vague cradle]

wow

[fluid garden]

sure in some scenarios where you have an amazing UOC, it works out great! as I understand in AIA your division is being ran wonderfully by walac and there's not really anything wrong going on in the division, but if you look at how old ARD was under OCE it just wasn't being ran great and if this system would've remained in place it would've really negatively affected the division

there's also the issue in that, transparency helps but you aren't able to share absolutely everything

me personally, i'm sending shouts nearly biweekly for misc. things, I release monthly shouts pinging everyone, and i try my hardest to engage with the community as much as i can and yet i still encounter plenty of people who just don't really know what i do and what i do to contribute to the division and for some, even who i am

making a poll for everyone sounds great and all but its really dificult to gauge how your UOC is performing as a lower rank, is it just that the rest of the leadership is making great changes for the division and the UOC is on the sidelines or is it the UOC themself making changes for the benefit of the division?

i honestly dont know, this sounds good in theory but in practice unless you have a walac level or ols level UOC it does more harm to the division then good

and you cant really expect the AO to constantly be determining this either, AO's have always been notable for just not really being great at their job

like lets look at toby who was your AO, he quite literally let marshal who was a pedophile remain as a UOC and absolutely NOONE stepped in until notablonde went public forcing IC's and chairmans hand (which what, took an entire fucking year?)

we would all love to remove AO's who don't do their job, but who's to hold them accountable? who's to determine that they should be removed from their position after spending nearly 3 years working for it? its not exactly simple to just tell someone "yeah im removing you from the position you worked 3 years to get because you failed to determine that your UOC wasn't performing the greatest"

like if we're being honest with ourselves, AO's aren't ever going to be really removed unless they fuck up big time where the UOC is marshal level or is running the division to the ground

[zenith tusk]

what determines success in a ao's job

in a uocs job

it surely cant just be change

one could just make change for the fun of it

[slate oar]

What is all this chat about

Holy so much messages

[fluid garden]

basically should we remove uoc terms in exchange for them remaining permanently with AO determing if they fuck up and a yearly poll seeing if they remain

[slate oar]

Uh

[fluid garden]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1437089489209000026/1437089499506020368/flowchart.png?ex=6911f964&is=6910a7e4&hm=58b714e35db486204b38f1a375be697249e348e15f7b44b1b8dfe34cd57818e0&

[slate oar]

Interesting

Only thing I see in it is that dc and uos will just lose their motivation to rank up

[fluid garden]

if you want full context to everything's that has been discussed up until me read here

[slate oar]

I’ll do that tomorrow it’s 2:30 am xd

Ty the

Tho

[fluid garden]

mhmm

[slate oar]

So do u agree with it or

[fluid garden]

no

[fluid garden]

most of my reasoning is here

[slate oar]

I’ll read that tomorrow as well

[fluid garden]

i might've worded mines pretty poorly but i think i get my point across

[sage bane]

hammer hits right on the nail

no reason to rank up if your uoc rules for the rest of their life and no one is willing to consider any other candidates

[slate oar]

Mhm

[drifting bay]

i once yelled at and scolded walac becuz he was being big fat

Hehehehe regretted it though

[cosmic zinc]

in general i agree with this but there is basically an issue that i haven't seen too many people address

good leaders vs "okay" leaders, i totally can see a good UOC staying in charge for longer but just because somebody didn't do anything bad, doesn't mean they're doing great either, stale leadership that's just doing "okay" should still be cycled to give opportunities to more ambitious and dedicated candidates

actually i think marshee said something about this, my bad

[fluid garden]

yeah i did

[storm summit]

did you miss the whole part where you can vote them out of power early

[fluid garden]

gabry said it better then me, but yes i remembered it

and i also described why it wouldnt be that simple

[storm summit]

how could it not be

if they fuck up or dont do their job its literally just a vote to remove them

[fluid garden]

"making a poll for everyone sounds great and all but its really dificult to gauge how your UOC is performing as a lower rank, is it just that the rest of the leadership is making great changes for the division and the UOC is on the sidelines or is it the UOC themself making changes for the benefit of the division?"

"Now what if this system was in place and OCE remained to be UOC? From how it stood at that moment, no one would've really realized that our division wasn't being run great by our current UOC (just like how i did until ols became our uoc!) and OCE wouldve effectively remained in place forever, and in turn it preventing other leadership members who could've ran the division even better from ever getting the shot at being UOC"

[storm summit]

so the AO just cant operate on their own?

the vote doesnt have to be the end all be all

the AO can still BE THE AO and remove or replace the UOC if they deem it necessary

they dont have to be locked behind a vote

yeah, lower ranks cant see all the shit they do but the AO can and thats kind of the whole point

an AO who would only operate off the vote alone and wouldn't do ANY OTHER RESEARCH is a lazy AO

[fluid garden]

"and you cant really expect the AO to constantly be determining this either, AO's have always been notable for just not really being great at their job
like lets look at toby who was your AO, he quite literally let marshal who was a pedophile remain as a UOC and absolutely NOONE stepped in until notablonde went public forcing IC's and chairmans hand (which what, took an entire fucking year?)
we would all love to remove AO's who don't do their job, but who's to hold them accountable? who's to determine that they should be removed from their position after spending nearly 3 years working for it? its not exactly simple to just tell someone "yeah im removing you from the position you worked 3 years to get because you failed to determine that your UOC wasn't performing the greatest""

[storm summit]

"not really been great at their job" then i guess they should just be removed

as for who

the chairman

IC

literally the point of those people existing

and they dont have to be DEMOTED FROM TOML

[fluid garden]

keep reading 💔

[storm summit]

just CHANGED TO ANOTHER DIVISION

[fluid garden]

solar if im being genuine with you

[storm summit]

and if they still dont do shit

[fluid garden]

thats not going to fix jack

[storm summit]

then a demotion is warranted

[fluid garden]

and even then, when have you EVER seen that happen

[storm summit]

rayris

toby

[nocturne patrol]

so i’m not reading all this shit

[fluid garden]

because there has been plenty of inactive AOs who took ages to be removed

[fluid garden]

which took, what nearly a year before anything was done?

and the exact same thing with toby, in fact nothing wouldve been done with toby if it was for notablonde going public about it

[storm summit]

so your reasoning is just because theres other issues

[fluid garden]

im saying that tomls are rarely ever going to be removed and there really isnt going to be anyone watching over them

and IC is literally being disbanded for SJB

[storm summit]

great then THEY can do it

people who are actually active

[fluid garden]

leaving the only people left to make sure toml are active and inactive ones are removed....being fellow toml and chairman

[storm summit]

"IC is being disbanded for SJB" do you think they're not going to have the same level of permission?

they will basically be IC when they're said they can be by chairman

[ornate lichen]

solar noblody is demoting toml because they do jack unfortunately

[storm summit]

love how the solution is to throw our hands up in defeat

[fluid garden]

the issues with SJB is that whos going to become them and risk their aegis career for being known as "the guy who demotes toml", but thats a seperate story

[storm summit]

💀

then they should know what they're getting into

[fluid garden]

i geninuely dont think the one term is that big of a deal

[ornate lichen]

thats justt + aura g

[fluid garden]

its promotes change of personnel in the higher ranks, it allows new ideas to be brought forth, and it allows UOCs to be potentially even better

[storm summit]

if a better UOC emerges then they can also be

CHANGED OUT

😱

[fluid garden]

my main point which i see that i miscommunicated improperly is that if this were to be enacted, you'd end up with 2 types of UOCs the ones who are mediocre and the ones who are geninuely good at the job

[ornate lichen]

how do yk if theyre better

[fluid garden]

and how would you determine that?

[storm summit]

how would you?

you cant

[ornate lichen]

exactly

[fluid garden]

your just going to demote a UOC because "yeah i feel this guy would do better then you, so your getting demoted"

[fluid garden]

exactly my point 😭

[storm summit]

no, thats the point of the vote

holy its like talking to a brick wall

[fluid garden]

solar i think im understanding you very wrong

because what your telling me is that "aos should be the ones to determine that that UOC is doing great" and if the AO is inactive (which is extremely likely to happen) its only reliant on the vote...which i already covered why that isnt the best solution

[royal crescent]

I agree, but at the same time that means the majority of dc's will never be able to become a UOC

[fluid garden]

^ because we ALL KNOW a inactive AO unless they are geninuely driving the division into the ground and its critically affecting it and its SUPER APPARENT

they just arent going to be removed

[storm summit]

and i have said that they can be removed or demoted

but you dont want to acknowledge that

and just keep saying "but it'd take forever"

[fluid garden]

no i do, but i geninuely cant picture an AO being demoted unless the division is being ran into the ground

like, your just going to demote an AO for not being able to determine another candidate is better despite the division running okay?

[storm summit]

what??

no you'd demote the AO for not doing their job

not JUST that

[fluid garden]

yeah...which is to make sure the division is running fine and determine UOC performance

[storm summit]

if an AO doesnt take the additional steps to look at future UOC candidates as well as the vote as a whole

then they shouldnt be an AO

[fluid garden]

which ties back into why i believe its flawed and difficult to determine which candidate could prove better...

[feral palm]

i love how your arguement is literally

• the aos aren't going to do their jobs properly (which is an insane assumption)
  • in response, we must punish the good uocs with forceful removal after a set time because of this lack of confidence in aos

like in what world is that okay lmao

actually bonkers

[fluid garden]

if im being honest, the set time is geninuely not that much of a big of a deal as you picture it to be

[ornate lichen]

1 year is fine

[fluid garden]

i understand walac is an amazing UOC, but if your truly a good UOC your perfectly well to make every single change you believe that needed to be made in the division with the one year and if not, you still have an extension!

[feral palm]

speaking from aia's perspective, walac's term is almost up (afaik). our division is actually fucking screwed if he gets removed

[vague cradle]

what abt 67 yeats

years

[ornate lichen]

stop it

[storm summit]

^ for reasons that arent his fault, i must mention

[fluid garden]

i cant really comment on this as im not AIA

but speaking for every other division ive viewed

it just simply wouldnt be this way

[storm summit]

its a lot of overwatch's fault

[ornate lichen]

so deal with said overwatch?

anyways idk whats going on in aia

[storm summit]

trust me

we're fucking trying to..

[feral palm]

plus, yall act like having an option for more time is a death sentence and some grandpa is gonna sit there for 5 years. that's just not going to happen and people will retire and cycle out like a regular group, just on their and the rest of the division's timeline.

[fluid garden]

i mean...yeah kind of

[feral palm]

forcing that timeline to speed up because your ego needs a promotion is just ridiculous and you should never hold any leadership positions if you can't get over yourself

[storm summit]

obviously some people are going to take a while but if they're doing a good job thats not a BAD THING

[fluid garden]

you dont really need to do anything as UOC besides vote on stuff that your directorate brings forth and make sure everything is not going to shit (at least in ard, again cannot comment on AIA)

[storm summit]

manage your UOs?

talk with DCs about up and coming plans?

[fluid garden]

which the DCs do!

[storm summit]

so the UOC should just sit on their hands while everyone else does the work?

[fluid garden]

thats geninuely not that big of a time commitment

[feral palm]

a good leader delegates, oversees, and takes charge appropriately.

[ornate lichen]

not necessarily but anyway

[storm summit]

"not necessarily"?

please elaborate

[feral palm]

https://tenor.com/view/wall-man-homem-parede-cara-parede-homem-falando-parede-cara-falando-parede-gif-10572926947302201205