witholding evidence

[median gorge]

@zealous pagoda reactions added

[teal abyss]

yes

• could be used for blackmail

[lyric quiver]

yes like a “statue of limitations” this is a good idea :D

[grand zinc]

support though maybe this shouldnt apply to things like sexual harassment and other serious offenses

[lyric quiver]

ya that makes sense

[static field]

How about stop breaking the rules

[lyric quiver]

i think this mostly applies to in game right @zealous pagoda

[lyric pewter]

why tho

you still broke the rule

if u kill someone and the evidence is revealed 2 years later ur still going to jail

[mighty fulcrum]

this would prob made because of zodiac's treason report

though it was

denied

[lime vigil]

individual could be intimidated atm or think its okay

it happens

[lyric quiver]

LOL oki i see

[lyric pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-angry-little-gif-25979873

[mighty fulcrum]

like SSP said

for minor infractions this should be the case

but for major infractions the time of the report shouldnt matter

like

[lime vigil]

well in technicality something like this does exist, believe its called statute of limitations

[mighty fulcrum]

just in-game stuff like TK RK

nothing too personal or serious

[lime vigil]

and zen CHECK GC 😠

[lyric quiver]

what if someone committed treason as an initiate like 2 years ago

[lyric quiver]

OKI

[mighty fulcrum]

prob would be denied

[lyric pewter]

I think this makes sense if it was long ago

Like 3+ months

[lyric quiver]

why tho

[mighty fulcrum]

it was 2 years ago

and considering its an initiate

[lyric quiver]

so you don’t think this is accurate then?

[mighty fulcrum]

no

what i mean by like major

is personal

like threats

ddox

outside the game

[lyric quiver]

oh well ya super said that lol

:3

[lyric pewter]

I’ll ban

Trust

[viral nimbus]

@young wigeon finally a decent policy

[viral nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/the-gc-gc-got-leaked-group-chat-leaked-better-call-saul-saul-mugshot-gif-26162882

most of ahrds policies are created because of a case and often lead to all parties being equally disappointed

this one tho...

[viral nimbus]

yeah thats why we have certain policies to protect against targetted punishment

[lament birch]

yes but a specific list of exceptions should be included with a clause for case by case basis determined by AHRD leadership

[viral nimbus]

sigh
another document

[ornate wharf]

Yeah, that's murder tho big difference

[grand zinc]

when will ahrd rewrite the punishment guidelines

[viral nimbus]

which

[grand zinc]

discord

[viral nimbus]

oh

fuck i forgot to tell rib

[grand zinc]

wait yall are actually planning on doing so???

[viral nimbus]

it makes sense

half of yall banned that pksf gif

other half is ok with it

thats confusing for the community

[mighty fulcrum]

please allow the pksf gif 🙏

[grand zinc]

this is aegis, you need to be way more specific

even though the ahrd nsfw doc is longer than the current discord punishment guidelines in their entirety

[viral nimbus]

it can also be interpreted as bias

"this officer hates me so hes asking me to delete this gif"

[fading valve]

this is roblox army simulator, not real life judiciary system

[lyric pewter]

It’s an analogy

Smh

[fading valve]

doesnt work well

thats like saying a parking ticket is the same as terrorism because its still a crime

[sonic cliff]

No.

[lyric quiver]

what??

[sonic cliff]

No as in its not a good idea.

[lyric quiver]

then don’t fucking ping me with that

[sonic cliff]

How about I ping whoever I want?

[lyric quiver]

ping the person who created the suggestion

[sonic cliff]

I agree.

[lyric quiver]

oki i dont care lmao

[sonic cliff]

You obviously do, keep coping.

[grand zinc]

Cool it, ya'll

[sonic cliff]

Moron cusses at me for a ping and then says „idc“

Absolute 60 iq specimen.

[sonic cliff]

Sorry

[sonic cliff]

It shouldn’t count for a lot of things.

If anything only for warnable offenses

[young wigeon]

So a statue of limitations

sighs Ferb I know what our next document is going to be

[grand zinc]

LOL

[viral nimbus]

good morning rib

[full dune]

I'd read

[olive nymph]

yes and no. this is also roblox. if someone is reported for TKing two years ago, nobody is going to care

nor should they. two years old, minor offense

[lyric pewter]

Probably should’ve said 2 weeks ago

Makes more sense

[olive nymph]

2 weeks ago is still ok but it's weird that someone wouldn't send it right away

or that week at least

depends on the offense 🤷 some things should just be forgiven and let go, others not so much

[fierce lichen]

shouldnt have done it in the first place

[fallen nacelle]

but then i cant report supersmartypants... 😭 😭 😭

[young wigeon]

Ideally yes, however since this is AEGIS you'll have five people rules lawyering about how they were technically wrong and should be punished even though it makes no sense. Everything here needs to be spelled out or someone will start malding :P

[lament birch]

@ me next time 😪

[young wigeon]

[olive nymph]

sometimes you need that. the officer / mod handling it has the discretion to make that decision for themselves, but if they decide to punish a TK incident from months ago it'd just be petty.

[young wigeon]

mm

[loud harness]

ssp600 first strikes as officer:

[grand zinc]

for fucks sake it was like 2 strikes

[full dune]

2 is wild

[inner kettle]

maybe the evidence is still valid and punishable, but the person who withholds the evidence for more than 2 weeks faces a punishment themselves

idk

[loud harness]

this sounds something like RD would do

[inner kettle]

LOL

[spice owl]

amazing suggestion

[young wigeon]

Nah nr

[viral nimbus]

i disagree
we punish people for targetted punishment
that reduces malicious ahrd cases and instead promotes genuine ones

no more headaches for COs

[fierce lichen]

i disagree

honestly

this suggestion dumb

just dont break the rules and youll be good

[viral nimbus]

you dont want to prevent targetted punishment...?

its literally the #1 cause of raiders being banned

[fierce lichen]

just dont break rules 🤷‍♂️

[grand zinc]

how would you determine targetted punishment

[viral nimbus]

i think thats what is to be brainstormed once this suggestion is considered

[fierce lichen]

just dont break rules

abide by them

[young wigeon]

We just shoot them

Problem solved

[visual oar]

If its 2 weeks or more after the incident then it could be classed as it or if it gets brought up/report after they get into a division/promoted etc.

Thats my opinion or if they report every single.petty thing they do

Exception: Part of an active investigation, + look into past incidents

[grand zinc]

imo its very...context-dependent

[visual oar]

That

Im just listing some examples tho

[grand zinc]

a report more than 2 weeks old could be totally fine in some cases and a report from a week ago could be taken out of context and snipped to the most incriminating-looking part

[viral nimbus]

yeah

[visual oar]

If its pedophilia thats acceptable any time obviously

[grand zinc]

well yeah

or most serious shit

[viral nimbus]

i bet the anti ahrd gang reading this convo like "oooo these nerds want to get away with crimes ooo"

[grand zinc]

like harassment etc

[visual oar]

On god

[visual oar]

Minor eh

Moderate 2 weeks - 1 month
Severe anytime

You probably know which case I mean when I say severe super 💀
2 i have in mind

[grand zinc]

i mean petty shit like "this divisional is being toxic towards me" from a raider yeah should be a pretty quick report or should be ignored

what im referring to when im wary of this rule being applied as a hard limit is people being afraid to report people higher up because they didnt report it immediately and they dont want to be seen as targetting

[visual oar]

Fair point

[fierce lichen]

just dont break rules

[fallen nacelle]

real

[fallen nacelle]

you know how it works ser, youve done it before 🤣

[grand zinc]

hey now

shush you

[fading valve]

💀

[teal abyss]

Username: Rigedortail
Description: RK
Proof: https://medal.tv/games/roblox/clips/20EnQRVDKDfI0Z?invite=cr-MSxEZFosMjIxMDc3NDkxLA

[teal abyss]

should I report?

[fading valve]

pixel cooking up a storm

[lament birch]

i understand your point here! i really do. it is simple to effectively just say "dont break rules" and you would have no problem.

but i think a lot of unique situations have come up like new rules were established and people have tried to then prosecute other people for breaking that new rule before it was a thing (whether it had been convoluted or just not an existing rule).
^situations like this have occurred where evidence came to light of an AEGIS developer exploiting on non-ecosystem games. or when you had times where external behavior guidelines didn't exist.

i want to emphasize that putting a rule like this into play doesn't hurt anyone -- it really only puts into place another safeguard to protect the players of the community from malicious prosecution from others.

an example of a good implementation of this rule is -- hey i was really close with this one person in AEGIS where we shitposted or said some stuff together in private DMs that may have violated some guidelines (whether it be external) or I TK'ed him once in game as a joke. we have a falling out and this player now then tries to throw me under the bus, delivering (key word here) the evidence in some way that twists HICOM or UC+ to act immediately to oust this player from the community. in turn, the reputation of me is already tainted because there was fast action being taken as opposed to taking the first step to determine the statue of limitations were valid.
^ you've had real situations like this occur -- especially with Chadman in his involvement with Trimaxon and others in a slur infested chat.

I can go down a rabbit hole but I think you get the point here.

**People in this community have repeatedly delivered their evidence of certain infractions in a way that seeks to illict a quick and fast response from HICOM/AHRD/IC. **

[fading valve]

holy wow

[lament birch]

Putting this rule into place puts an extra step to those in power to re-examine the way they look at the evidence presented, especially when you have young emotional people (HICOM/AHRD) who have shown over time, that quick decisions are made without rational thoughts decreasing accountability/transparency

while protecting players at hand

[fading valve]

this is why u were toml

👏

[fierce lichen]

Slurs and all that are a different situation

Pedophilea

It’s different

[lament birch]

Yes

In my original message in support of this I explicitly stated that we need to have carved out situations

[fierce lichen]

Yes I agree

But for small things

[lament birch]

I think the incident that led to this post is that a raider was sitting on a clip of an STHD for 9 days to then post it accusing them of treason

But it was an exploited outbreak and the raider seemed to know that (assuming since it was held for 9 days) but left that context out

[fierce lichen]

Well yeah good on them

[lament birch]

And that STHD was banned immediately w/o any explanation b/c someone believed the clip at point value

Showing err on both sides

So it's just things like this -- where you have to factor in the offense vs the reporter's intent / report timeline

[fierce lichen]

There has to be a threshold

In what’s purposeful and not

[lament birch]

Yes

I think @viral nimbus understands it

This wouldn't be a blanket but

Just another procedural thing to consider

[fierce lichen]

Like for say, a pskf is about to get UO and they get a warning for rk and someone gate keeps it for a couple weeks so that they can ruin their reputation

I totally understand it

[lament birch]

I think it is hard for us to talk about it because it doesn't happen very often

In a larger sense anyway

I can only recall major situations (Trimaxon, Chadman, Scripted_Super) that can lead to a snowball effect where all of them turn on eachother for old messages

Oh no he said this slur first blah blah

[fierce lichen]

Yeah

[lament birch]

That's also why I think full screenshots for #🚶player-reports is something else tbh

https://prnt.sc/_7JCSAXZg8gX -- because screenshots like this can be old

or forged

Anyways thats a diff topic

Tschuss

[viral nimbus]

yuh

hoopa

[lament birch]

LEAVE ME ALONE

[viral nimbus]

:(

[young wigeon]

I would like to know what decisions specifically you’re referring to by “quick decisions” made “without rational thoughts” here.

AFAIK we do tend to be rational and thorough (often to the point where we delay verdicts for weeks waiting for responses) so I would like to correct anything to the contrary.

[lament birch]

I think my last point was probably more focused on HICOM and the IC

[young wigeon]

Ah mk

[mint prawn]

not reading all that