make punishment guidelines public for transparency reasons

[rigid badge]

self explainatory

[teal night]

ngl i dont know why this isnt a thing but i bet you its not gonna happen still

[rigid badge]

yea idk either

[subtle relic]

so easy to implement

[rigid badge]

only reason i can think of is that they dont want backlash when they dont follow the guidelines to its exactness

but even then, they can just put a disclaimer like "in extreme circumstances these guidelines may be overruled for a more suitable punishment"

and something to do with lenience maybe idk

[neon gate]

WHAT THE HELL IS A PUNISHMENT GUIDELINE, WRAAAAAAAAAAAA

[rigid badge]

real af

[rigid badge]

is that a genuine question or na

[neon gate]

ive never been in a division 😔

[rigid badge]

well its just a document that tells officer+ how to hand out discord and game punishments

[neon gate]

oh

[rigid badge]

sc might use it too but i think they have their own thing

[neon gate]

oke

[hollow scroll]

😔

[ornate garnet]

Didn’t know it was a thing but yes

👌

[minor ridge]

They should be public

[thin python]

sc has 1 but most punishments r based off of the SC's leniency

[mystic spire]

Subsidiaries guidelines are missing so much rules

So yea either Make punishment guidelines public or update subsidiaries guidelines rules to match up

[rigid badge]

TRUE

[rigid badge]

well ofc u can use discretion but the guidelines should be public

[supple flume]

Yeah why don’t they already have this implemented???

[vast kernel]

eh

nah

[ornate garnet]

Cause aegis

[ornate garnet]

Why?

[vast kernel]

naah

[ornate garnet]

🤨

[supple flume]

Valid

[supple flume]

Game punishments is within SC

[supple flume]

yeah sometimes we don't 100% follow it

@short sage this wouldn't be a bad idea

[rigid badge]

officers have them too

[supple flume]

ik

[short sage]

because then people will cry when we decide a harsher punishment is necessary

or they'll think they're being treated unfairly because "WELL THE GUIDELINE SAYS"

ontop of that people will start to say "hmm well if I break this rule it'll be really funny plus I only get this punishment, that's not a big deal"

I'm leaning towards not allowing the guidelines to be public.

[rigid badge]

thats why u put a disclaimer

[rigid badge]

^

[short sage]

still an argument waiting to happen

[vast kernel]

no

we will do it if aia releases evidence for everything they have ever done

[rigid badge]

we have different reasons for classifying things

you guys are just afraid of a little backlash

[supple flume]

maybe give it to aa staff with the new stuff they get soon

[short sage]

🤣 we release shit all the time knowing what kind of backlash it may or may not invite

[rigid badge]

ok so why not just deal with the extra little bit by making the punishments transparent

it'll do more good than bad

[rigid badge]

plus you basically said this yourself so dont deny it

[rigid badge]

you used it as a reason not to make them public

[short sage]

because we've been fine for over five years without needing to, almost nowhere actually lists every single thing like that lol. "just add a disclaimer" then the whole document is useless to the public.

[rigid badge]

1. thats some old man logic, you can always make things better
2. then make a document with everything in it, not hard when you already have ones that outline most of the punishments
3. i suppose so but these exceptions would be decided upon by people like ToML id assume since they handle all the extreme scenarios and literally run the group anyway so it doesnt really matter if they bypass some document saying who should get punished and how. anyone below hicom should really stick to the punishment guidelines unless they are using discretion and deciding not to punish someone for something very minor.

[short sage]

1. there's nothing "better" about making a punishment guideline public besides the loose benefit of transparency. you break a rule, you get punished.
2. it doesn't need to be public, the only benefit would be transparency
3. not every single case is cut and dry, read this clause = that punishment. context matters, intention matters, you can't possibly have all that accounted for in a document.

I won't be supporting this suggestion, it holds no value beyond a vague transparency to those who aren't already in-the-know with the punishment system. Don't break the rules, you won't be punished. If you break the rules, you will be. Simple. Certain punishments are already outlined in the subsidairy guidelines which cover a wide range of offenses which are often times most harshly dealt with.

[rigid badge]

its not hard to make a document that accounts for context and intention. other groups have done it transparently with little issue

[short sage]

Good for them.

[rigid badge]

🧠

[thin python]

coded saying hes gonna make aia declassified a bit:

[rigid badge]

🤷‍♂️

[hollow scroll]

bro just leaks their duties and all their docs lol

[vast kernel]

a little backlash makes our job of moderating the game, become absolute hell because of how long those last.

[timid elk]

Thing is they do... When the right people ask

[vast kernel]

o_o

[red garden]

nice suggestion, i dont see a point in punishments within AEGIS not being public

people would have a vision of what rule/guideline is "harsher", thus making majority obey the rules

[mystic spire]

@short sage atleast make subsidiary guidelines match with punishment guidelines as theres soooo much unwritten rules

[thin python]

fr

[neon gate]

literally

[short sage]

Please point them out to me and I'll make sure that gets fixed.

[supple flume]

again, depends on leniency

[mystic spire]

raiding cured hangar, and disrupting events (for example like repeatedly as a wastelander going to where the event people meet up for a raid and killing them) thats what i can think of on the top of my head

but theres more and once i think about them ill tell u

[short sage]

raiding cured hangar isn't against the rules to my knowledge, you don't get punished for it besides being made a subject

event warnings should be notified by the uc but its a good idea to include it in the subsidiary guidelines

[short sage]

@hangar, unless it's an exploited outbreak, which I know for sure is listed as a rule.

[mystic spire]

why do sc warn people and team them to subject

i dunno if its still the case but like i remembber bback when i was new i raided a cured hangar and wremmy teamed me to subject and gave me a warning

[short sage]

They should only be warning AEGIS, but anyone can be teamed subject. It's a lorefriendly way to keep the cured hangar safe.

If they're warning wastelanders I'll make sure that's rectified today.

[mystic spire]

im not sure if they still warn wastelanders lol cus i raided cured hangar years ago

[short sage]

bruh

Yes years ago it was wrongfully warnable

[mystic spire]

ok thx for clarifiying

[short sage]

it should not be an issue anymore

[short sage]

If you know of something up to date to support this claim, please let me know.

@thin python you as an SC should already be doing this if you're agreeing with him

@elder void I'd appreciate it if you did the same.

& now this is offtopic from the discussion, continue in my dms if needed.

[ornate garnet]

Cured hangar isn’t raidable though

Because we cuff people into it

So if they begin to raid in it that’s punishable

[rigid badge]

how what

[ornate garnet]

I don’t make the rules, that’s just what I’ve known since I’ve been ARD

Something to do with if we cuff them/they volunteer to be cuffed they can’t raid

[rigid badge]

weird ive never heard of that

i dont doubt you its just i genuinely had no idea

[ornate garnet]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Just what I’ve always been aware of

[mystic spire]

a toml say its allowed what...

so can i or can i not

[ornate garnet]

I think most if not all of ARD has been told that it’s not allowed, enforceable by mod punishments. Wether that’s just outdated or not I think it should be punishable

As stated above cuffing a wastelander into the hangar means they volunteered or agreed to be cuffed

Using that to just bypass the protection seems stupid

Granted we don’t let them in often

[short sage]

@warm kindle

I don't recall it being warnable to do something in a cured hangar during an official outbreak.

[neon gate]

what

WHAT

[short sage]

please correct me if I'm wrong because that's a discrepancy we can't allow to continue.

[neon gate]

IVE BEEN FOOLED

THIS ENTIRE TIME

[short sage]

now to be fair,

sc could still tell you to stop. If you don't, you'd be teamed subject.

ie. If you're just trolling

[neon gate]

if this is true my entire knowledge of infection protocols has been demolished

[warm kindle]

Wdym by official?

[short sage]

nonexploited or toml caused

otherwise natural

[ornate garnet]

Basically non exploited

Thats the only other classification

[warm kindle]

@short sage so the way I know it is during exploited outbreaks there is to be a server announcement where everyone is supposed to go to hangar without raiding or fighting to end the infection. Which if they do attack during exploited they can be mod warned, jailed, server kicked/banned. For non exploited (natural/toml) aegis goes ofc and any Wastelander who goes has to go peacefully if they wish to be cured. If a Wastelander goes peacefully then attacks that breaks the outbreak “treaty” so then they are either verbally warned or teamed exp on discretion of the lead ard. If they actively raid from entering the facility or area they can attack the non cured hangar. The cured hangar is off limits as far as I’m aware which again verbal warning or exp team on lead ard decision if they do attack the cured hangar.

[supple flume]

You are not allowed to raid cured hangar

[warm kindle]

And ofc if aegis is continually not listening to ard/sc/pksf commands they can be warned as that’s not listening to superior officer in guidelines. Which depending on how much they keep doing it they can be jailed or teamed exp for example if they purposefully keep resetting to get away from hangar or ard/pksf

[short sage]

What does the subsidiary say about raiding during an outbreak specifically because I think I would've included that

[warm kindle]

Uhhh idk rn I’m at a theme park so I can’t look it up

[ornate garnet]

not mentioned, though exploited outbreaks aren't specifically either

[supple flume]

pretty sure it's in sc punishment guidelines

[ornate garnet]

just a line about evading the subject team

[supple flume]

i'll find it n send u it

[short sage]

They should be

[ornate garnet]

"Evading punishment, of any form, is prohibited. This includes…

• Rejoining the game after being teamed to Subject.
• When raiders are raiding during an exploited outbreak"

[supple flume]

corpsii it says it in some classified stuff within sc

i know that

[ornate garnet]

Kinda just implies raiders cant raid during one

weird wording but idrk

[mystic spire]

Subsidiaries guidelines mentions that exploited infections aren't allowed to be raided but nothing about raiding cured hangar in a normal infection

[ornate garnet]

this is all thats mentioned

[mystic spire]

Yea its there but under a weird sectuon

Like how is raiding exploited outbreak punishment evading

[ornate garnet]

i dunno

[thin python]

in my opinion raiders should be able to raid at any time during outbreak

even if its exploited

or in cured hangar

[ornate garnet]

Exploited nah

If the cured hangar is opened by card somehow, yah they can raid

But by being cuffed it’s the agreement to not raid essentially

Cause putting them through the wall would be glitch abusing if they raid

[rigid badge]

glitch abusing

thats stretching the term pretty thin if you ask me

[ornate garnet]

Some sort of basis

[rigid badge]

not rlly

[ornate garnet]

Idk if it’s the best term to use

[rigid badge]

shit is NOT glitch abusing

[ornate garnet]

Got a better term?

[rigid badge]

no but that aint it

[ornate garnet]

Stacking isn’t a glitch but in subsidiaries it’s counted as it pretty sure

Ye

I can’t attach a ss but it’s there

“Abusing glitches to your advantage (e.g Stacking to get on-top of mountains) Glitches can include but are not limited to:
“

[rigid badge]

yea stacking to get somewhere you shouldn't be

thats a glitch

if ur cuffed into a gameplay area then

its not glitch abuse at all

[ornate garnet]

Stacking ain’t a glitch though

Cuffing through walls should count as one under those terms

[rigid badge]

into a non gameplay area

[ornate garnet]

Without a keycard cured hangar is that

[rigid badge]

yea if it were out of the map

not into a gameplay intended area

like vtol hangar

ur point is ass and its off topic cease

[ornate garnet]

It’s not off topic but whatever

[rigid badge]

it is read the thread name

[ornate garnet]

It came from a topic about the thread

It’s supposedly punishable but it’s not public?

That’s the thread point

[hollow scroll]

My life is a lie

[hollow scroll]

So if I raid cured hanger I will just get teamed subject?