But you can't polish RNG?
#gtfo-spoiler-chat
west crow
But if the RNG decides if you win or not, I'd rather have that RNG be earlier in the level or omitted entirely
boreal tendon
hello. A quick question for B3 overload. After inputting the command does it trigger constant alarm or a single wave?
atomic escarp
In my opinion shadow scouts aren't that hard, so I don't see your point, beep
quiet hound
constant
boreal tendon
thanks
boreal tendon
u mean the uplinks are constant and overload objective is a single wave?
quiet hound
yes
atomic escarp
Smh Projekt misinforming people
quiet hound
so the last uplink is constant
west crow
My point being is that every public e1 extreme completion, including mine, has had that room's rng be great
atomic escarp
But RNG doesn't make a level good or bad, its just luck
queen nymph
Feel you there, I spent like 5 mins + in the last room because I had bunch of sleepers and three scouts there. It was a fun time 
atomic escarp
Who you asking?
obtuse surge
anyone
atomic escarp
The odds are really high but no I wouldn't call that a cheese. That is just you getting very lucky.
west crow
Goku guessing the last reactor code 😏
obtuse surge
how long does the incorrect code thing actually last if you're not cheating
west crow
Five seconds?
obtuse surge
if you're at a point where you're certain that you won't be able to get the code in time
there's no downside at all to just guessing
west crow
there are quite a bit of 4 letter codes
queen nymph
||Can he even get to the generator room without carry tho ||
noble meadow
Good evening, what's the point of the game? Do we win stuff or something like that? Hi, what's the point of the game? Do we win stuff or whatever?
worldly bison
just experienced E1 blind for the first time - wtf?? D:
caught me completely off guard
queen nymph
Have fun
queen nymph
Imagine putting mine to kill Tank on e1
open owl
We use mines for the very last tank (before extraction), makes it super safe
👀
atomic escarp
Its always fun to have no tool refills when you need it
worldly bison
Imagine playing E1
like i said, blind run haha - tho i'd like to give it more than 2 tries before leaving it behind
rugged jay
Just shoot the sacs on the back
west crow
I wouldn't really look at a level by how many tries it takes but rather by how much you improve with each try
A productive perspective
solemn wigeon
Just don't get hit
west crow
it's a feature...
delicate chasm
imagine not melee the tank to death in E1 smh... weak 
delicate chasm
yes, make a post.
with my completion i had 2 people from LFG and 1 ive know for a while
atomic escarp
👉👈 I'm shy
delicate chasm
eternal berry
Had a lovely glitch that ruined me and few others run but I mean, got a close up of a beautiful chargers face
inner torrent
@willow coral Hi lud, is there a fix planned for the tank's hitbox?
It's starting to get very annoying on E1
remote karma
@inner torrent What's wrong with it though? I might not be aware of it. But last time I killed tanks it seemed alright.
remote karma
Looks like BS indeed 😄 Lucky me, never experienced it myself.
inner torrent
Same when you try to hit the blobs from the side, your bullets get blocked and you get white hit makers instead
Feels like the spikes on his back have a large hitbox and that's blocking bullets
nocturne flax
That mostly desync
inner torrent
Not when you're the host
inner torrent
And that happens to me as the host
inner torrent
All that did was make it harder to kill the tank with mines
nocturne flax
it made the blobs to the side more accesible wich is good
mine strat still works
afaik
inner torrent
That's exactly my problem, shooting the blobs from the side
When the tank is neither facing you or away, but is on his side, sometimes you get white hit markers even though it's right on a blob
nocturne flax
Desync on his animation not matching the hitbox most likely
inner torrent
Like his back spikes' hitbox is larger than it looks or something
nocturne flax
and thats just a game issue that they need to fix if thats the case
inner torrent
As I say, as the host
inner torrent
Well if you're the host and have desyncs we have a bigger problem
nocturne flax
The animation dont match the hitbox
inner torrent
Well, yeah, that's my problem
nocturne flax
.....
nocturne flax
fogeabouit
inner torrent
If the animation doesn't match the hitbox, that's the problem then
And it's starting to get old getting white hit markers for no reason
Was fun the first 3 times though
crimson mural
Does anyone know why a bunch of shooters have those yellow stuff on their face?
unborn sorrel
C3 Overload - why would anyone open the blood door to the tank? We had done the objective and could just leave, is there a reason to do it or is it just style points since we weren't expecting it and just got dunked by him
robust marsh
bulkhead key i believe
unborn sorrel
Oh so it's for PE?
robust marsh
or something idk i didn't play C3 that much
robust marsh
Oh so it's for PE?
ye
unborn sorrel
You need it for High as well?
nocturne flax
You need the bulkhead period
unborn sorrel
ah fuck
nocturne flax
its not really that bad
nocturne flax
the chargers that are coming to you are more dangerous than him
robust marsh
the chargers that are coming to you are more dangerous than him
ye
unborn sorrel
Well we were just thinking of doing only the overload part, we're not really at the stage where we can do PE
robust marsh
ya
because extreme is a must
the supply's you get and the fog not being that bad anymore
unborn sorrel
yeah I guess we should focus on doing an overload of an earlier level to unlock D tier
nocturne flax
Extreme lowers the fog, and makes the high bulkhead managable
robust marsh
yeah I guess we should focus on doing an overload of an earlier level to unlock ...
A2
unborn sorrel
Was just doing duo scouting runs and we cleared overload pretty easily
robust marsh
A3 is a bit annoying but not so much
unborn sorrel
well we're usually a 3man
robust marsh
do B2 lel
unborn sorrel
yeah, sorry
nocturne flax
should be enough to unlock the D tiers
unborn sorrel
Well I started up the B2 extreme and was like noooope goddamn
robust marsh
as you need to go to extreme
unborn sorrel
idk constant alarm at start of level seems omegalul
nocturne flax
B2 PE you just gonna have to understand the gimmick of the level, and time your pushing
thats basically it
robust marsh
B2 PE you just gonna have to understand the gimmick of the level, and time your ...
its pain and you know it
so dont even try to make it sound ez
unborn sorrel
Yeah I've been trying to solo scout to the overload, but realised you need to do extreme anyway to get it since it spawns 2 bulkhead keys in the extreme
nocturne flax
ive never said its easy but thats the things you have to understand
robust marsh
if you want scout killing go B2
robust marsh
ive never said its easy but thats the things you have to understand
ya
but still
its hard af
unborn sorrel
We just haven't really tackled any of the constant alarm shenanigans yet
when I've scouted it myself it seems bs since they can spawn in rooms ahead of you and trigger scouts : s
robust marsh
there is a very ez way to deal with it called 2 groups
nocturne flax
Yes they can and its normal
unborn sorrel
I think we're still just used to the perfect stealth and lots of prep for doors and such
robust marsh
and fallow you so alarm dosen't spawn them on you
unborn sorrel
so it all goes to shit triggering rooms and scouts we don't have any input into
robust marsh
I think we're still just used to the perfect stealth and lots of prep for doors ...
after some point you just going to make up things as you go because of error alarms
if you dont know what you doing that is
nocturne flax
Get use to messy gamplay because from there on out you'll have to deal with that in a lot of other levels
robust marsh
ya because nothing gose to plan that much ever
unborn sorrel
mhm, I did figure splitting the group up for dealing with the few guys was the best way, but it's just when it throws a scout wave on you as well
robust marsh
so just get ready to change plans faster than you can think
nocturne flax
Stealth dont have to be perfect, you just have to do it fast and without loosing to many resources
unborn sorrel
haha fair enough, I imagine that's where having 4 of you makes it easier
robust marsh
say that to solo players
unborn sorrel
well yeah, we're clearing rooms pretty fast now and I've just picked up the joys of hopping
Just kite right?
_>
robust marsh
dont get really comfy with hopping
nocturne flax
solo, you mean running back and forth for hours
robust marsh
big respect to solos i meant dragon
unborn sorrel
yeah I still prefer just being methodical about it rather than yeeting myself into rooms
robust marsh
sometimes you have to just run or walk from enemy to enemy
nocturne flax
well some levels like c2 are well pace if you go fast enough
robust marsh
ya
unborn sorrel
tbh we just need to clear through the B tier
robust marsh
B tiers are fun
unborn sorrel
we've done A tier and C1 so far and we keep dying at the end of B1 and B3
unborn sorrel
I didn't get to check out the overload of it since I couldn't solo run around the S1 alarm
robust marsh
a lot of fun
nocturne flax
nah still slow
robust marsh
it is slow
unborn sorrel
but yeah, the extreme seems fine
robust marsh
but still you can have fun
robust marsh
nah still slow
sorry that the game dosen't have E1 style of gameing that much :/
nocturne flax
??
It doesnt need to have an error alarm to make it fun lmao
if the map was smaller
unborn sorrel
I suppose with A3 and doing it's overload you basically want to do extreme anyway to stock up on resources before the class 4 door? We dealt with the double scout but then just got swamped down
nocturne flax
it would be a lot better
nocturne flax
R3 maps were small, of course replayability made it stale and boring
but they were fun
unborn sorrel
I was going to say so far it seems like every R4 map is bigger than R3 by quite a lot
I really like the new tiered difficulty though
nocturne flax
r4 its enjoyable
robust marsh
it is
nocturne flax
yes
robust marsh
ya
robust marsh
i still cant get over that they did my man the tank dirty by not adding an king
nocturne flax
its fine, it was just going to be a bigger one with more health just like the queen
just a more boring bullet sponge
robust marsh
well queen had diff look
nocturne flax
its fine as is
nocturne flax
well queen made some sense since she cannot literally attack you and she have to stand still for quite a while to give birth
tank can actually defend himself
robust marsh
i dont want peanut comeing to GTFO for an event if we get one
just please dont add peanut
nocturne flax
Red glowsticks are the event 
robust marsh
dont add an enemy type like peanut
(im not going to call it in his real name)
robust marsh
who...
nocturne flax
unlike r2 :]
robust marsh
Theyre annoying but they've been use fairly in r3 and r4
who...
robust marsh
||peanut aka scp 173 kind of enemy||
robust marsh
most of them swear words
i call them screaming eggs
hexed vapor
Green eggs but no ham.
vapid moon
The most common names are zits, wall nuts, spitters, and my personal favorite, ball sacks
sand star
how is R2 harder than the current rundown when there's now invisible/armored permanent alarms?
nocturne flax
Its learnable
and introduce the mechanics in earlier levels
R2 introduce error alarms on doors in the last level
at 75% OF THE LEVEL
and it was one hell of a fucking error back in the day
I mean extract alarms are technically error too, but triggering via doors were a new thing
Spitters spawns where out of control
b2/b4 
sand star
r2 didnt even have that much invis enemies
hexed vapor
They're not that hard anymore, but neither is R4's D tier.
nocturne flax
"Statistics" of my deaths were pretty fucking high 
sand star
the current overload bulkheads are absolutely ridiculous
hexed vapor
Also, invisible enemies have never actually been that hard.
I duo'd R2C1 w/out a bio, we just used permafoam and our eyes.
Not to mention, you can kite like a motherfucker against shadows, they've gotten heavy nerfs.
nocturne flax
Now you have a choice went choosing the "difficulty"
so its not only really by tiers
hexed vapor
I think the main difficulty is just hitting mob cap.
Before dropping cargo.
Naw, once you're at cap that's easy.
You just run them to the other side of the map and get a free minute to move cargo.
nocturne flax
In my duo attempts we pick up the cargo kill like 4 shadows, drop cargo at bulkhead entrace and then run until spawn cap
you can drop off cargo without problems
hexed vapor
Wouldn't it spawn chargers?
nocturne flax
nope
hexed vapor
Odd
nocturne flax
never had them
hexed vapor
Wonder what decides if it's going to switch enemy composition.
Every time in quad cargo has dropped we had chargers spawn.
nocturne flax
only when pushing past the class 4
i had them spawn
hell i had one time when we were pushing and the chargers spawn on the side doors when reaching tank sleeping place
There must be a custom trigger or something that places the chargers in there
hexed vapor
That or a bug lol
nocturne flax
Yes its in early acces, but people talk like the game its COMPLETLY FUCKING BROKEN, when its not
i just assumed its a map trigger
game is buggy but not THAT buggy
nocturne flax
You speedrun the game wesley
brittle light
lul
obtuse surge
normal runs too
nocturne flax
nah man you too fast
obtuse surge
brittle light
I mean, most of the games I hear about and see played work perfectly
just, the few times it does decide to be wonky it usually completely screws you over
obtuse surge
or when you tried so hard not to get infected because there's limited disinfection
but then you fall through the floor
and get max infection
nocturne flax
R4E1 in a nutshell
brittle light
it tends to screw you royally over
obtuse surge
or when you fall through the floor and literally die to fall damage under the floor
brittle light
haven't seen it much yet personally but the clips of it are always a joy to watch
kek
look who's typing
gravity
why u do us like this man
frail zinc
i mean out a2 Error alarm felt pretty bug the run we done. It had no audio+ inconsistent spawns on the waves. @toxic dagger can confirm our pain
toxic dagger
yeah shit was whacky
frail zinc
Doesn't help it decided to spawn in front of a scout room once too
nocturne flax
afaik Waves are consistent but audio spawn doesnt trigger
so it often can catch you off guard
toxic dagger
there was no consistency in when or how many enemies spawn and also there was no audio queue until we were doing the extraction scan
it’s every 40 seconds yes?
nocturne flax
The audio indication not showing up its kind of bad for A level that introduces a new mechanic to new people tbh
hexed vapor
No, A2 is really hard to keep track of because it's 2 enemies every 20ish seconds.
nocturne flax
i tought they fix it with the extention
hexed vapor
You're basically going to see them constantly.
toxic dagger
ah shit i thought it was still the standard 3 every 40 seconds
hexed vapor
Audio que is only consistent for the 3 every 50 seconds which is used on A3 and B2.
toxic dagger
no audio cue c3?
robust marsh
well E1 you hear the tank comeing
toxic dagger
i gotta do c3 pe next 😭
atomic escarp
It plays an audio cue in C3
nocturne flax
no the tank itseldf
atomic escarp
A2's the only one that doesn't iirc
pulsar zodiac
since it doesn't really make sense for tank to spawn with normal sleepers roar
obtuse surge
that one cunt that spawns at the end of a scout wave also doesn't have a wave sound
frail zinc
they should really make all error alarms consistent
cos that info about different spawns and lengths aint really on the wiki either lol
nocturne flax
Every error alarm its different
hexed vapor
I mean, most alarms are different from one another.
nocturne flax
with different spawns and timings
nocturne flax
that everyone its wrong
atomic escarp
with different spawns and timings
C2 Class III alarm for zone 13
pulsar zodiac
one of world's biggest scam: B3 Class 2 cluster alarm
hexed vapor
I mean, R2E1's error alarm was 2-6 enemies every 30 seconds, ramping over time.
R2C2's elevator alarm was 4 enemies every 45 seconds.
R3D1's elevator alarm was 4 enemies every 45 seconds with an offset striker titan also every 45 seconds.
toxic dagger
for the nframe on c2?
felt like they spawned way faster than every 45 seconds on c2 overload
toxic dagger
oh shit i misread, saw that as r4c2 not r2c2
pulsar zodiac
sand star
why is it that every time where there's a fog generator it would break down and had to restart when you put all the batteries in?
nocturne flax
The magic of gtfo
sand star
i dont think i've actually seen a working generator that didnt break down
it's getting real old
atomic escarp
Power went back iirc
nocturne flax
If gen cluster, fog will either go up down, or endlessly rise \
also lights will go out
and some random team scan will appear
hexed vapor
Pretty sure that's just a part of the gen cluster startup process.
nocturne flax
I know i just memorize the whole thing
hexed vapor
The lights going out, I mean.
bold widget
when you guys think we gonna get a new rundown
i predict feburary
i hope feburary cause i wanna get this rundown still done
atomic escarp
I think March or April
bold widget
desire to finish intensifies
dreamy bramble
not if they're new lol
nocturne flax
You can finish this rundown in less than a month
you'll be fine
atomic escarp
You can finish this rundown, you'll be fine
toxic dagger
just don’t actually do it but photoshop the picture so it looks like you did it
open owl
Them scout spawns really do be fucking with e1 runs tho
soft kraken
scouts are friends
never have i seen a more wildly incorrect statement
rugged jay
never have i seen a more wildly incorrect statement
Scouts are friends not food
soft kraken
Scouts are friends not food
scouts are the pinnacle of waste and should be disposed of at once
wild wyvern
scouts are the pinnacle of waste and should be disposed of at once
@mossy yoke
im telling
solemn wigeon
./ban Gorilla
soft kraken
true id get a scout pull out its tentacles and cook them into a nice ol bowl of scouhetti
solemn wigeon
this is a crime
mossy yoke
you're not allowed to say that seeing what role you have
gray swan
Quick question: In C2 there is a door simply saying: "Warning: Alarms detected" Is that some kind of special alarm or are we just dumb?
subtle vault
Its an alarm door that dose not show the class
gray swan
Ok so just to fuck with us some more, thank you
errant vigil
It was how old alarms were
atomic escarp
BaCk In My DaY AlArMs DiDn'T hAvE a ClAsS NuMbEr
astral kraken
So what is B3 OVERLOAD mission anyways
It has a butt ton of resources behind the door, so I am curious
HMMMMMMMMMM
subtle vault
I think its a command or cryo
astral kraken
Cryo is in extreme
astral kraken
I failed to open the overload door yesterday a couple of times with 2 of my friends and we were at 96% cry cry
subtle vault
I'm going to go play A4
astral kraken
B3 Overload doesn't have the constant alarm right
obtuse surge
no
astral kraken
cool
obtuse surge
do you want me to list all the "obstacles"
obtuse surge
!!!
astral kraken
lol
subtle vault
They stay up past 12
subtle vault
was about to say
astral kraken
Damn
subtle vault
They were hackers
polar urchin
Are there any other guns you could possibly use to one-shot kill a Scout besides the sniper? Like would a dmr to the back of the head work? or is it just the sniper rifle that can one-shot them?
devout river
Revolver to the back of the head, Choke Mod Shotgun, Normal Shotgun
toxic dagger
revolver to the back of the head
subtle vault
you can use the choke mod or normal shotgun
polar urchin
Alright, nice. I'm guess that's a no on the dmr then, right? Thanks for the info.
toxic dagger
you can body shot them with the burst cannon as long as like 4-5 of the rounds hit as well (not sure the exact number of rounds)
rugged jay
Dmr is not great
polar urchin
Because I know that it's possible with the sniper to stealth kill them too if you're far enough away and dmr is like the only other gun I knew that had long range
modest aspen
Yea DMR can't kill scouts even when shooting the back of their head
toxic dagger
easier just to hammer scouts imo
modest aspen
^
toxic dagger
i’d say pretty much only shoot scouts if you really can’t melee it or if you wake up a room with a scout in it (and need to kill the scout before it sets off), or if it’s alone
atomic escarp
When I have the Sniper I get lazy and just shoot giants
toxic dagger
yeah the sniper’s more of a giant/hybrid killer imo
modest aspen
Sniper 1 shot Headshot most if not all giants right?
polar urchin
I'm still having to get past the mental barrier of even going into a room that has a scout in it DX
atomic escarp
All giants die with a headshot from the sniper
modest aspen
Even hybrids?
toxic dagger
yes
errant vigil
yes
atomic escarp
Yes
modest aspen
Pog
wild wyvern
especially hybrids
modest aspen
Definitely want to put them in the ground first
toxic dagger
does sniper 1 shot giant chargers since it isn’t precision damage?
errant vigil
what
rugged jay
what
wild wyvern
yea what
errant vigil
no
modest aspen
nope
toxic dagger
i just woke up sorry
atomic escarp
Giant chargers don't have a head crit multiplier
wild wyvern
chargers usually take 1-2
errant vigil
charger do not have head weak point
wild wyvern
only the back
toxic dagger
yeah i figured
obtuse surge
do you guys remember your first scout melee attempt on R1A1, and it failed 🥲
atomic escarp
Doesn't stop me from shooting the place where their head should be
modest aspen
It's like a shooting habit i guess
toxic dagger
i just burst cannon them right in the gut usually
modest aspen
Burst Cannon can really mop the little ones up really nice, but for giants iirc you gotta either get a few Headshots in the burst or full backside shots to kill
toxic dagger
you just single burst the giants and then burst cancel or finish it off with primary
toxic dagger
thanks for ur input lol
modest aspen
Might as well add a supershotgun for next rundown kekw
errant vigil
eh burst will probably leave next rundown
modest aspen
Yep
toxic dagger
it’s not as if it detracts from aim but yeah i mean it’s a little cheesy
obtuse surge
do you think they'll remove it after trying so hard on making changes to it
errant vigil
yes
toxic dagger
but like we have people infinite circle kiting so that’s not really a huge concern comparatively imo
toxic dagger
yes i just said that
obtuse surge
⚠️ Zone 29 would like to have a word with you
toxic dagger
burst cancel comparatively i think is much less impactful than people kiting for an entire expedition
toxic dagger
that’s like the kinda logic of someone who uses short range kiting but doesn’t want to concede that it’s also not great lol
errant vigil
oh I mean if they get rid of all kiting
I'm fine with that
means I have to get better
yes
wild wyvern
flipping tables
atomic escarp
:
errant vigil
desert shell
can the shotgun kill a scout now?
errant vigil
always has
desert shell
it got nerfed
modest aspen
Damage is still same
errant vigil
^
modest aspen
Probs the highest damage per shot which is 60 from the chart
modest aspen
Big oof how the Shotgun can't slam fire
forest hound
hexed vapor
I think the main issue with kiting and hammer-heavy (alert) strategies is that they indicate that, fundamentally, the core gameplay of GTFO just isn't very hard.
It just has the illusion of being hard for people not in the know.
light totem
I think the main issue with kiting and hammer-heavy (alert) strategies is that they indicate that, fundamentally, the core gameplay of GTFO just isn't very hard.
@hexed vapor exactly
Or the first reaction people have when shit hits the fan is kite
rugged jay
it's a solution to the ammo economy too, alerts stop being scary when you realize running around and kiting > sitting in a corner
toxic dagger
isn’t it the opposite with kiting? for hammer heavy strategies, i totally agree, but if people are defaulting to basically a cheese method to infinitely kite or kill enemies, doesn’t it indicate that they are incapable or scared to face the threat head on in the intended way or aren’t good enough at conserving ammo that they have to use those strategies in order to do so? seems like people default to kiting or use kiting strategies when they can’t cope with facing shit head on, or else they’d do that
light totem
Mhm. You can basically beat every level, even solo, without firing a bullet
toxic dagger
like yes the game is considerably easier with kiting but i don’t think it would be without
toxic dagger
infinite circle kiting? right
rugged jay
bulkhead cheese = cheesing
light totem
Cheesing would be like R2E1 spot, making every enemy a giant in R2D1 etc
rugged jay
B hop = not cheese right
light totem
Hell no
toxic dagger
like obviously the devs didn’t intend you to play like that though
atomic escarp
Guns don't performing well either, more so the primaries
toxic dagger
kiting and running circles around the enemies
rugged jay
guns suck
toxic dagger
like that’s not the intended way to play lol
atomic escarp
The Devs said too that people don't play how it's supposed to be played
light totem
Mhm
rugged jay
I thought the big challenge in GTFO was managing ammo economy, and so i guess hammer kiting is the answer
light totem
They throw ammo at ya too
toxic dagger
my whole point is i don’t think kiting indicates the gameplay is easy. i think it shows gameplay (in the intended way) is rather difficult and people kite to make it much easier
light totem
Should. But isn’t
errant vigil
being good at stealth and aiming
light totem
That will never change unless the game has a complete change
toxic dagger
add a stamina limit in the run
rugged jay
is the quad hammer ladder strat also bad then
toxic dagger
i’ve been playing too much skyrim but it would stop people from running around so much
light totem
Fuck stamina system. However
errant vigil
Stamina good
light totem
A changed movement and no regen >:)
austere void
I totally support a stamina system
errant vigil
Have to shoot when run out
toxic dagger
agreed
toxic dagger
i’ll throw that in suggestions actually
atomic escarp
That's been suggested (un-iirc)
toxic dagger
i figured but wouldn’t be bad to reevaluate the response to such an idea from players
light totem
Not how the channel is used
toxic dagger
i mean i’ve never heard it discussed but i haven’t been here for that long so
light totem
It would just be deleted if it’s a duplicate suggestion
toxic dagger
i mean why the fuck do you think there’s upvote and downvote arrows
austere void
Most would hate it cuz then they won't be able to kite the entire map and cheeze
toxic dagger
yeah that’s the point
toxic dagger
that’s why pizza hates it hahahaha
light totem
Huh
austere void
Would make solo runs literally impossible
toxic dagger
jokes
light totem
I literally said kiting is dumb
toxic dagger
it was a joke man don’t take it to heart
light totem
I don’t like a stamina system cause it impacts non combat
hexed vapor
Kite isn't really a cheese, even cross-map kiting and infinite circle. You're just playing the game, it just so happens the game gives you tools to do absurd things.
rugged jay
^
atomic escarp
Just take away the jump button, EZ
light totem
Lol
toxic dagger
but it’s not the intended way to play the game. like that’s the same as saying you can sit on the bulkhead for mothers because bulkhead doors are tools in the game
light totem
Doing what
rugged jay
bulkhead cheese is actually not tool in the game
light totem
Do people really do that
toxic dagger
yes
light totem
Jesus
toxic dagger
many
atomic escarp
Ew
errant vigil
good
toxic dagger
that’s the equivalent of what you’re saying though cadmium
hexed vapor
The issue is that cheese spots aren't really a result of the core systems allowing absurdities, it's just an oversight in map design.
toxic dagger
just because you can infinitely kite and abuse enemy reaction time and targeting systems doesn’t mean it’s legit lol
hexed vapor
Kiting is literally something every single person does, just in small doses.
toxic dagger
devs don’t want you running a fucking circle with enemies at max spawn limit so you can finish objectives LOL
hexed vapor
It will also never truly be removed from the game, because not being able to move to avoid enemies is fucking absurd.
rugged jay
I can rub two brain cells and jump on a bulkhead. kiting you start bleeding heath over time if you mess up
austere void
Pretty sure that infinite running isn't supposed to be a 'tool' either because it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever
light totem
Like I said. Slow player and normal striker speed a tad. And take regen. Ez
pseudo pumice
tbh they just need to add stamina but make it a super high tolerance so you won't notice it unless you're running across half the map
toxic dagger
it’s really not hard to hold sprint and spam jump over enemies either
hexed vapor
Being able to run away forever is a side-effect of being able to run away.
errant vigil
same with bulkhead cheese what if you don't kill shooters you bleed health lmao
toxic dagger
yeah just add stamina that comes into play when you start to actively kite for a long time but won’t impact movements around rooms or running away from enemies to an extent
infinite running ability is also just really unrealistic
pseudo pumice
yes
toxic dagger
like on a game focused on resource conservation and precision, seems ironic you can just run forever and jump over enemy attacks
toxic dagger
wdym what
rugged jay
run slowly
hexed vapor
Kiting still isn't a cheese. People thought of it as a cheese in R1 because it was a really strong strategy, and then swiftly ditched that angle because it involves so many fundamental aspects of the game.
austere void
They be bookin it lmaoo
toxic dagger
they’re not slow sprinting?
rugged jay
how about we do stamina but raise move speed for sprint.
toxic dagger
hauling resources, guns, and hammers around and still running at that speed forever?
they’re not slow lmao, maybe like compared to COD sprint hahahaha
light totem
Not bad for people that do it moderately
rugged jay
slow compared to payday 2, lfd2
toxic dagger
you throw on a gas mask that’s likely hard to breathe through and 50 pounds of gear and try running like that in real life pizza for a sustained period
toxic dagger
l m a o
toxic dagger
they breath in toxic fog all the time, it’s not as if they’re marathon runners and have insane lungs
and i doubt the warden dishes out expensive medical care to remedy that, just the minimum to keep them alive post expedition
hexed vapor
Stamina risks being a bit too annoying, which is still why most people oppose it.
soft kraken
bro the infection fog might be hyping them up though shoot bro no clue whats in there
toxic dagger
bro the infection fog might be hyping them up though shoot bro no clue whats in ...
hahahahaha
just fucking laughing gas
atomic escarp
Just make crispy fog less thicc, EZ
light totem
Crispy yellow toxic fog UwU
hexed vapor
All they really have to do is have common enemies which are distinctly anti-hammer or anti-kite.
light totem
Yep
toxic dagger
the issue there is targeting can still be abused, hard to make every enemy like the charger and still have diversity
austere void
That's no fix lmaoo
toxic dagger
^
atomic escarp
The things I've seen Neko
light totem
Lmao
atomic escarp
You cunt
atomic escarp
I fucking hate your ideas
light totem
Whyyyy
atomic escarp
Because they're actually good
light totem
Bomber go brr
atomic escarp
And deadly
light totem
I want them
atomic escarp
I both hate and love it
errant vigil
enemy collision 👀
atomic escarp
Becky's sidestepper concept too
toxic dagger
why
austere void
I'd rather see NEW enemies rather than alternatives of the already existing ones
light totem
Cause it’s harder to melee
toxic dagger
what purpose does an armored scout have
light totem
Bruh
atomic escarp
Its forces players to position better when approaching it
light totem
To melee kill it you must hit the occiput
hexed vapor
I mean, the alternatives take something like 30 minutes to make.
light totem
That’s the concept
errant vigil
so would regular scouts if enemies could hit easier
light totem
Punishes the people who don’t take their time for the kill
toxic dagger
that’s such like a trivial thing lmao compared to all the other problems with enemies
errant vigil
and you couldn't run through them
light totem
And just go hammer goes brr
light totem
Give strikers more tongue damage and a melee attack to finish you off from 20 when
Like 14/6
errant vigil
No
toxic dagger
i think they just need to take off the animation for striker tongues lmao
atomic escarp
Make it 15-5
light totem
Yes
light totem
Lol
atomic escarp
Haha spec bug go brr
errant vigil
can't just run away for a sec and they miss
toxic dagger
so people don’t fucking run through a crowd of them and survive because the tongues take so long to like “charge”
and add more vertical capability so people don’t just jump over them
hexed vapor
Jumping matters way less than arcing imo.
austere void
Jumping is literally the god mode button
hexed vapor
If you're running past them correctly, that's all that really matters.
light totem
There is. Just minuscule
light totem
The enemy targeting is fine
errant vigil
no
toxic dagger
needs to be improved so people aren’t using absolutely whack dodging methods to run through enemies
light totem
You wouldn’t know triw
errant vigil
not when I can just barely move past them and to the left slightly and they miss
toxic dagger
give the tongues more tracking so they can follow players who run around them
light totem
I literally get aim botted everywhere
austere void
They dont miss lmaoo
light totem
Even breaking los doesn’t matter a lot
austere void
unless you jump
hexed vapor
They do, though?
toxic dagger
you can run past one who’s about to tongue and he’ll miss if you’re to his side or behind him @austere void
austere void
I always get hit unless I jump
hexed vapor
The ones who will hit you will probably still hit you if you jump.
austere void
then I dodge 20 tongues
toxic dagger
again the whole jumping thing is a minor subsection of the bigger issue
which is that you can run through and around and dodge a lot of enemy attacks in kiting
light totem
And I gave a fix. However they won’t do it
hexed vapor
I mean, it would probably be solved if you could always get hit unless you used cover.
toxic dagger
man you misread shit
errant vigil
Cement boots
toxic dagger
it just means that there are several ways to approach the problem
austere void
Well if they add bodyblocking, fix the jumping dodge or add a stamina bar there would be WAY too many people and ALL solo players complaining that the game is soooo hard and impossible for solo.
errant vigil
easy can't run : )
toxic dagger
the game’s not intended to be soloed so i mean like...
better to get rid of kiting than to indulge the solo players who kite for 2 hours to finish a level
even if it makes the game way harder to solo
austere void
Right now I honestly dont think that soloing is hard at all. it's all about kiting the enemies across the map and doing the scanning circles one by one
toxic dagger
yeah lol
atomic escarp
the game’s not intended to be soloed so i mean like...
Solo isn't intended but the devs say people would still be able to solo
toxic dagger
yes and you’d still be able to solo without kiting
austere void
run across the map, go back, do as many scans as you can until they catch up to you, repeat
toxic dagger
my whole point is fixing the kiting side of shit to have the game played in the intended way is more important (i think) than appeasing the solo players who are gonna complain that it’s harder because they can no longer kite
austere void
It would literally be impossible for them.
hexed vapor
"Solo players" is a made up demographic, I don't think anyone would actually care that much if kiting were removed.
toxic dagger
possible, very improbable which is how it should be
hexed vapor
Most vets would prefer if it were harder.
austere void
So why is everyone allergic to it then
toxic dagger
no i definitely think there’s a demographic of people who do solo levels and abuse the fuck out of kiting who could no longer solo without entirely changing their gameplay post kite-removal
hexed vapor
Because it would have other negative consequences?
twilit hornet
C1 Cognition help:
Sorry to cut in here
but we have a 3 man squad.
and we are having the hardest time in the world managing the constant wave of crawlers WHILE trying to shoot the back of the Boss. any tips or advice?
or any videos to watch that could help us out?
austere void
Like what?
hexed vapor
Making enemies faster, for example, was a thing in R3 and it also made standing your ground significantly more difficult.
toxic dagger
save auto sentries for that part or have someone focused on fighting the wave
hexed vapor
Stamina would be very annoying to work around.
hexed vapor
Most people would prefer very high striker accuracy.
austere void
Which is just annoying af
hexed vapor
A good chunk of time is already spent looting, which will just take longer w/out constant sprint.
toxic dagger
how would having a high stamina bar be annoying to work around? it only comes into play when you’re running for a long time
austere void
They already have heat seeking laser guided tongues
atomic escarp
C1 Cognition help:
Sorry to cut in here
but we have a 3 man squad.
and we are ...
It goes for the person that last shot it, so you can juggle aggro
Then one person who's aim is good handle the waves
toxic dagger
it’s not as if your stamina would run out running between like 2-3 rooms, just if you’re in a constant sprint for a long while which would be indicative of kiting
hexed vapor
It's better than nothing, but most people would prefer almost anything else.
toxic dagger
also adds a big layer of realism and slows down the pace of the game, which seems wanted with ideas like “armored scout”
i mean again, the other main solution is changing enemy type or function
hexed vapor
You can't view your opponents as an amalgamate with all the same ideas.
hexed vapor
Where the fuck did you get the idea that anyone other than Neko was talking about armored scouts.
toxic dagger
i used it as a reference for slowing down the pace of the game, which ricardo also seemed fond of
atomic escarp
People wanted scout variants since R2 I think
toxic dagger
cba to argue
hexed vapor
Fuck scout variants, give us something as interesting as the scout that isn't a scout.
austere void
Scout variants would be boring af. It's still the scout
hexed vapor
Literally been the best enemy since R1.
toxic dagger
could just add a new common enemy that can be hammered while asleep to preserve the stealth aspect but is much harder to kill when awake with a hammer
hexed vapor
Sidesteppers or brawlers to replace shooters on occasion would solve most of the issues w/ kiting imo.
errant vigil
that's basically the charger
hexed vapor
At least hammer-heavy.
Issue w/ chargers is they tongue, which makes them easy to hammer.
toxic dagger
a scaled down version of the charger would seem viable
chargers are pretty decent anti kiting
comparatively, at least
hexed vapor
They're definitely better than nothing.
rain heron
i would like something like a kamikaze sleeper.
woeful lintel
sleeper with spitter on it
errant vigil
a fog type enemy that releases fog when awake would be cool
and doesn't emit anything while asleep
atomic escarp
Mother go brr
errant vigil
no
Infectious
what
no
not really
ok
Then why I go through fog and it no infect and I take no damage
atomic escarp
Just don't run while in the fog, its basically infectious fog as long as the mother's alive
atomic escarp
Same thing
hexed vapor
I mean, you can kite babies.
atomic escarp
Sleeping babies but they have baby bottles
hexed vapor
They would add to stealth, but wouldn't really address the main issues.
errant vigil
ah tank
atomic escarp
Call it biomass
toxic dagger
it knows
hexed vapor
Shit, I mixed up my scient and potent
toxic dagger
unlimited power of omnipotence includes being all knowing though
hexed vapor
You can't just shortcut the gap problem like this.
toxic dagger
assumably all-powerful implies the idea of knowing all as well
seems inclusive if you’re all powerful to also be all knowing
hexed vapor
But does omnipotence entail omniscience?
toxic dagger
i would not say zeus is omnipotent
at all
God in christianity is omnipotent, also omniscient, which is included in being omnipotent (all powerful)
yes see
you can be omniscient but not omnipotent
hexed vapor
Well, if omnipotence just means that anything it could want to actualize it can possibly actualize then that wouldn't really require omniscience, no?
toxic dagger
yeah, i mean i guess
i’m still fairly set on the idea though that if you’re all powerful and have the capability to do everything then that power would also include knowing everything you can do, which is limitless
resulting in a situation where you know everything
hexed vapor
Well, if it's not the primal cause it wouldn't be all-knowing, and it might not know all abstract facts.
toxic dagger
seems out of the ordinary to have a potentially omnipotent being with unlimited power not utilize that power to be all-knowing or to be unaware of everything (because of aforementioned unlimited power)
hexed vapor
Usually you would want it to be entailed, though.
As that would really only matter for things like cosmological arguments and other theological arguments that have "gap problems," where you would need that full reasoning.
toxic dagger
not that any of this is practical or beyond philosophical or theological discussion anyways lol
lilac jackal
p
errant vigil
yea E1 go brrrrr
glossy lichen
anyone have a good spot for wave 3 on d1?
mortal granite
play on the catwalk
queen nymph
Catwalk all the time
glossy lichen
we did in the first two waves....third didnt work for us....tried a different room and survived by chance. I'll take a look at the catwalk again near spawn for 3rd and 4th waves. Thanks
desert shell
best gun for A2 solo?
atomic escarp
Yes
atomic escarp
jUsT kItE
Fr tho, its personal preference, and rng whether or not giants spawn
Which is 2 whenever I try to solo any level
atomic escarp
Don't... Give me flashbacks of my D2 "solo" where 12 shooters spawned in my class 2 cluster
desert shell
how can I kite if its an closed space
I got a lifetime amount of ammo but I need health
Zone 46/45
A2
ISSA SCOOT
there issa scoot behind door
I D I D I T
desert shell
yessssss!
manic adder
is there some kind of trick to B3? My squad has run out of ammo midway ... should we be melee'ing the terminal breaches?
unborn sorrel
What tools do you have? We use sniper sentry, c-foam and mines, and that holds off and deals with a lot. Also are you pinging resources? My experience has been basically every zone will always have ammo pack, tool refill and medipack
manic adder
@unborn sorrel we brought 3 sentries this run, since we knew about the terminal rushes. But perhaps that was ill-advised
3 sentries + bio tracker
we may have missed some ammo packs that aren't in chests
unborn sorrel
Cfoam will make your sentries better anyway
But we had the opposite problem, tons of resources but we got swarmed at the end
manic adder
ok see we've just had a complete lack of resources
but we're using the terminal now and discovering there's probably a bunch of packs that just weren't in chests
unborn sorrel
Yeah, every zone do ‘list res zone_#’
They’re always in lockers/chests but can be pretty hidden sometimes
atomic escarp
I'd suggest bringing 1 auto, 1 foam, 1 mine and 1 bio for B3
manic adder
oh yeah nvm these are just packs in rooms we haven't been to yet by mad
atomic escarp
The waves from terminal uplinks are small enough that you don't need that much suppressing fire
manic adder
ok good info @atomic escarp
unborn sorrel
Yeah swapping from sniper to auto on B3 was great for us
queen nymph
The last room in E1 extreme is so RNG based again lol
Got all the good RNG scan and resources until 3 scouts were in the same tiny room, never separated and all gathered in front of the terminal lol
soft kraken
sync up the scout kills
desert shell
yes!
candid pelican
desert shell
thin palm
Guys, may i ask about bloody door in B3 overload? There is a mother behind those doors, i'm curious how to handle it? I think we woke it up with mines while opening the doors but my question is: Is she sleeping there and we need to handle those doors quietly or will she wake up when we open bloody anyway?
dreamy bramble
she alerts immediately cause of the blood door
thin palm
Can you recommend how to handle it?
nocturne flax
shoot baby as they birth
dreamy bramble
bring some fog repellers cause she makes it hard to see
nocturne flax
have someone flank and shoot the sacks
dreamy bramble
also she can only spawn babies if she has los with a player, so you can try to bait her into a better position/away from the blood door enemies
thin palm
she has los with a player, wdym?
nocturne flax
if she can see you she will poop babies
if she cannot see you she will go towards you until she sees you
dreamy bramble
basically if you can draw a straight line from the mother to a player she can spawn babies
nocturne flax
to then poop babies
thin palm
Okay, thank you
west crow
Poop babies?
thin palm
Guess we will take care of it tomorrow, Happy new year tonight, and don't get too drunk 🙂
west crow
Everyone knows they're delivered by storks
west crow
Boo
nocturne flax
west crow
🤡
west crow
😢
carmine gull
Well its super late but if you mine the blood door and fall back to the other side then the door you went in
You can close those doors and the mother will walk up and hut it and will never be in range to spawn babies
From there get her with seafoam or jump her as a team with a fog repeller
carmine gull
Pfft c-foam whatever
inland sedge
S E A F O A M
chrome forge
cry-o-foam
polar urchin
When the horde spawns during an alarm, is it only the rooms adjacent to the one you're in or can they start in rooms further away?
polar urchin
Can it be literally any 2 rooms or do they have to be ones adjacent to the room where you're doing the alarm sequence?
drowsy lava
any 2 rooms away from a player that is not blocked off by a security door