uplinks lul
#gtfo-spoiler-chat
mortal hearth
muted oyster
Stealth and Hammer was its originality.
atomic escarp
rundown 002 turned this game into another L4d2 clone... GTFO needs to stand out for its own ideas and not become another run n gun game
Although I Agree, kiting is still a much needed asset to use for the player. These new changes have only increased the skill for it now.
mortal granite
try use gun in E1
midnight turret
l o l
mortal granite
you will be empty and need to get to the loot zone
lilac jackal
we love it
mortal granite
and then it again, become kiting fes
right now
i can only dodge a couple of them
i like that
atomic escarp
try use gun in E1
you won't believe what happens next doctors hate it
lilac jackal
e1 guns only run
lilac jackal
do solo a3 melee only for the chan chan 
lilac jackal
oh post that
atomic escarp
I'm super sad thoe about the new Kiting mechanics. I really, really enjoyed it. That's what I really liked about the game but it was a needed change.
mortal granite
it's still there
but the enemies is now a little faster
and more straight forward than just stand there
menacingly
mortal granite
oh
atomic escarp
Your jump is slow if you do it too much.
But it's needed now as the new way to kite.
Bunny hopping helps a ton.
mortal granite
new way to kite?
midnight turret
e1 shit pants
atomic escarp
Same as sliding
mortal granite
that's the way to kite since r2
atomic escarp
Yeah, you can't kite the same way in R2 now
BRO you can BHop to a sleeper while not alerting the whole room
mortal granite
you can... just harder
lilac jackal
can someone p l s explain the new kiting rules, i haven't seen any change
atomic escarp
R3 they made harder and more punishing
midnight turret
thats what she said
mortal granite
it's the same @lilac jackal but the enemies are now faster
with speed and target mechanic
they don't just stare to the abyss once they attack you anymore
lilac jackal
DANG
lilac jackal
i loved making fun of them for that tho,, it was like waiting for the drugs to kick in
atomic escarp
@lilac jackal They hit faster and you got to be careful of ranges. You can get hit easily. Make sure to bunny hop as that makes it hard for them to target you. You didn't need to.do it in R2 now you have too in R3.
Sliding also helps.
atomic escarp
If only I can show a vid but my pc can't even handle the game at 40 fps
Yes, super useful because there is a small speed boost when you do it. That can help with dodging.
lilac jackal
did they buff the speed boost slightly? i didn't find any use of it in r2
atomic escarp
I never used the sliding mechanic cause I haven't remap crouch since a week ago
lilac jackal
i also thought i saw someone talking about it earlier but i wasnt sure
atomic escarp
been bhopping since R1
lilac jackal
da strats my guy
mortal granite
sliding didn't change
atomic escarp
the things you don't notice when playing at 30-20 fps
mortal granite
sliding and b-hop are same speed
lilac jackal
wack, thought i saw someone mention it earlier
the things you don't notice when playing at 30-20 fps
20 fps??? my brain would implode. how do you manage
atomic escarp
but legit I don't even know myself
unk me i guess
atomic escarp
you right
lilac jackal
bullpup reminds me of minecraft mod guns lmaoo
formal elk
what was the new kiting change nerf to sliding?
atomic escarp
enemies are faster now
mortal granite
speed boost for striker
now you have to decide to
fight off 20 strikers
for kiting 20 shooters
atomic escarp
I'd rather fight off 2 hybrids
melee only
shooters are a pain to kite and strikers will lag me out and burst me down
burnt goblet
They should add armor consumables like armour packs. Make them reduce some damage. Might be too much, but hey it's an idea
lilac jackal
drop that in the bot spam my dude, i like that suggestion
atomic escarp
all I want for deeper expeditions are layered objectives
lilac jackal
even just another injection with armour boost or something would be cool
lilac jackal
if that is the case i will never finish r4
burnt goblet
Bruh I have so many ideas. Another one is if you want some other weapons, you have to find the pack containing the weapon and bring it with you to the extraction zone. Like the cargo boxes. So you can take a risk and get it. If you get it successfully, you unlock the weapon for future levels
Nah lmao
Syringes only in 2 levels and barely doing anything
atomic escarp
for now the syringes are hammer boost and free health and infection
burnt goblet
I even made some ideas for new enemies/weapons/tools
I do that for the games I really enjoy in my spare time
lilac jackal
i am sad about the syringes, i wish more had them, even if the entire rundown isn't lab themed. i think they had a lot of potential, but then again, i don't feel like they would fit as a core game mechanic if they were incorporated more
atomic escarp
BRO I want a syringe labeled heroin
Bullpup is my favourite weapon but the SMG is better in my opinion.
lilac jackal
we can dream pal
burnt goblet
Yikes
Well that is your opinion
I'm not gonna trash talk you xD
I just never liked the smg
mint wind
smg is the best
lilac jackal
love myself an smg
atomic escarp
pretty good PR for the devs to include the horrors of drug addiction in the game HMM
@burnt goblet SMG is my favourite
Well second after the bullpup.
burnt goblet
Bullpup is most likely gonna be a meta for r3
mint wind
i dont like the burst personally
atomic escarp
Yes, I can see that. SMG is still more ammo efficient. Bullpup is good but usess more ammo.
burnt goblet
Carbine is good
atomic escarp
I don't like the new 4 round burst personally.
burnt goblet
Yeah but it's got a lot of ammo to make up for it
atomic escarp
I'm so used to 3 round burst its killing me
burnt goblet
Yea the carbine
atomic escarp
Nah, I use it too quickly.
mortal granite
i don't know how many damage the burst cannon even do
burnt goblet
A lot
mortal granite
so i'm gonna stick with the sniper
i don't know
one of my teammate fire the Hel rifle
kill the giant too quick
nova pendant
Alright guys, give it to me straight. Is the Rifle good or bad? Because it looks like Pistol +, and I love the Pistol.
atomic escarp
Is the sniper a 2 shit kill on giants? They re balanced the gun.
atomic escarp
@nova pendant It's good. People say it's trash, they just can't aim for shit. As long as you aim for heads and bodies. It's a really fun weapon.
burnt goblet
Yea
burnt goblet
I'm surgical with single fire weapons
mortal granite
i like the new door in A1
atomic escarp
Me too, I'm much better with tapping and single shots. Hence why I'm not a fan of burst.
burnt goblet
Burst rifle of r2 was God teir for me, hip firing that bad boy was good
hexed vapor
Rifle is really not great, but it's not awful.
atomic escarp
And Dev, rifle is much better than pistol. They are similar just with more range.
vale imp
anyone know what the syringes do in the first level of the rundown
hexed vapor
Lmfao, no
nova pendant
What's the ammo like compared to the pistol?
hexed vapor
Pistol is way better
burnt goblet
But more powerful
atomic escarp
Nah, rifle is good. Just need to aim with it.
hexed vapor
Run the numbers
burnt goblet
Meh
nova pendant
Hmm.
burnt goblet
Say what you want buddy, not gonna change the minds of people who like it
nova pendant
Thanks for the input. I'm looking forward to giving it a try later when my friends are online. <:
hexed vapor
Rifle: 11 strikers per ammo use
Pistol: 15 strikers per ammo use
nova pendant
Is 'ammo use' referring to a full magazine?
atomic escarp
No, pistol is bad in my opinion. I do Much better with rifle than pistol and can do more things with it. You do you, you've got your own opinion.
mortal granite
is the crosshair on rifle small?
burnt goblet
No
burnt goblet
It's got a good sight on in
hexed vapor
They're not bad, but be aware if you handicap yourself
If you use rifle you need to acknowledge that you will have less potential than if you used something else.
atomic escarp
I see the the new weapons as the more specilesd version of the default guns.
burnt goblet
Once again there are a lot of variables in there.
I like it
I'll end up doing some testing
Rifle vs DMR
atomic escarp
Yeah, I really like all weapons but the balence feels "off" for all. They are all similar in some ways.
burnt goblet
See if there's a clear winner
mortal granite
has anyone tried to nuke the new enemy yet?
atomic escarp
Rifle for me the clear winner.
atomic escarp
It's a support weapon. It's really goood at staggering.
burnt goblet
Personally, the worst gun probably is the hel gun (not the hel rifle). Could use a good buff
midnight turret
I SOLOED B 1, now ima go fishing
burnt goblet
Nice
atomic escarp
OI
good job
Personally, the worst gun probably is the hel gun (not the hel rifle). Could use a good buff
Yeah. Needs a new sight. But it's like a more powerful version of DMR.
I like the new weapons, much more ways to approach now an really nic eto have that variation.
burnt goblet
Needs more ammo
atomic escarp
I haven't really used the hel guns effeciently
burnt goblet
Maybe 10/50 would be good
mint wind
I was hoping the Burst cannon or Hel gun were gonna replace the machinegun but sadly no
mint wind
I liked staggering enemies/mowing everything down
burnt goblet
Wasn't that good with it, didn't like it enough to try to be good with it either
mint wind
Worked very well for me in E1
atomic escarp
techincally burst cannon is the MG of this rundown
burnt goblet
Dedicated giant killer essentially
mint wind
its pretty much only for giants i rather use a shotty for them
burnt goblet
Well depends on the situation
atomic escarp
I usually use hammer for non alarm giants
midnight turret
bye cuties
burnt goblet
If the giant is already agroed and if you're going for shotty then prepare to get hurt bad
atomic escarp
Burst cannon is super good for killing giants with your team mates.
burnt goblet
Yea
atomic escarp
sry for asking in the general chat
anyone know what the yellow syringe does?
damage buff on hammer
ahhhh nice
are there any other syringes aparet from red and yellow?
mortal granite
make you stronger with yellow?
atomic escarp
red gives HP
mortal granite
there is a red
pseudo rose
Any screen shots or advice on handling new enemy?
pseudo rose
Both then ?
mortal granite
"the mothership"?
pseudo rose
Howvever many I’m very curious
mortal granite
they take damage when you shoot at the Bloop
pseudo rose
Mostly just wanna see them
atomic escarp
how many charges would it take to be completely foamed?
atomic escarp
F
mortal granite
all of my runs are loud
everyone just rush in room
and alert every single scout
i also got a bug in B2
where i got the fog turbine on my back
run and gun
hexed vapor
Okay, so how do you damage the mother again?
We woke it up after failing to melee kill it, and couldn't deal with the swarm.
atomic escarp
you damage it's blobs from what i've heard
hexed vapor
We were able to damage its back while it was sleeping.
Also, does it summon fog?
It got real foggy after we pissed it off
hexed vapor
Oh, that's good then?
mortal granite
the blob on her back
hexed vapor
Umm, she was still walkin
mortal granite
THE BIG GIANT ONE
hexed vapor
That's more the front tbh
mortal granite
that's where sniper is useful i believe
hexed vapor
Pretty sure the back is the end between the wings
mortal granite
i shot the blob and got hit marker
while hitting her face deal 0 damage and white hit marker
also
the mothership seem to back off in a corner
use that at advantage and mines it
gilded dirge
Anyone know what this syringe is for?
atomic escarp
drugs
maybe they're alergic to sleepers and need epipens
FR tho 1 is a hammer buff and 1 is free health
mossy yoke
red is health, yellow is hammer buff
wary swift
what does the IIX syringe do?
wary swift
mm i see
mortal granite
there are 2 syringes
modest pine
wintry plaza
bhopping isnt a thing afaik, if you time it perfectly you jump in place bc when you land your speed gets set to zero
mossy yoke
?t syringe
fossil kernelBOT
Spoiler: What each syringe does: ||The red one gives you health, but also infection, the yellow/green one buffs your hammer for short time, also gives you infection.||
mossy yoke
This now exists for people who ask what each does
violet arch
what the hell is the jump between a1 and a2
mossy yoke
that's a feature Warden... but really it's a bug. If you have video (I know you usually record) would love to see as much of the run as possible and logs. We're trying to narrow down repro steps.
bhopping isnt a thing afaik, if you time it perfectly you jump in place bc when you land your speed gets set to zero
@wintry plaza That's you hitting an invisible wall, also a bug - you shouldn't lose momentum just bunny hopping and going forward.
mind at least sending me the logs and the timestamp in UTC when you had the run with the 3 mothers?
vale geyser
If we all ||hit the blob of the mother enemy with full charged hammers in sync will that do any good?||
mortal granite
we don't know how strong is it
glass sierra
that’s still a lot of damage being done
jolly path
what does c foam do to the mother?
midnight turret
lol
vale geyser
Thnx a lot mate
timid gale
wheres mom?
atomic escarp
had a fun bug where enemies couldnt get past a broken door
vale geyser
||B2||
timid gale
where are my siblings?
glass sierra
where is dad 
atomic escarp
@mossy yoke Yes, we had 3 bithers spawn. It was one after the other, I am not sure if it's normal.
mossy yoke
#bug-reporting on how to get the logs, then send the link to the log files in a DM to me along with timestamp. @atomic escarp you can do the same. Just need to know what time in UTC the run was so I can look at the right spot in the logs.
atomic escarp
Ah okay, okay. I am going to do a few more runs. I will record it if I can.
So far, good job on D1. I am going to play it more than E1 its fun xD
mossy yoke
glad you are enjoying it.
atomic escarp
It's so much better having the alarm at the start, like i think much better. C1 also did a good job on balencing the last part as well.
high forge
d1 in r2 was not that big of a problem, but the time you spent on playing it was the real problem
mortal granite
i can speed through D1 pretty easy
people just not familiar with the fog vision
so they got lost often
ye
nope
i have a lot of stuff to do till afternoon
glass sierra
f
mortal granite
i have like 30 minutes this morning but that's not enough for a D1 run
glass sierra
maybe not d1, but I’d be down to join
high forge
this rundown feels a little too rushed for me, it's kinda easy to finish it, i suppose that having 3 A levels is a little too easy.
atomic escarp
@atomic escarp I'll play D1 again if you need someone.
I need to see if the rifle good for D1
Ah, randoms again?
Had he done D1?
I've played with him before from last rundown, probably doesn't remember me. Played with him like 3 times
fervent topaz
That new Hel Rifle is pretty cool
My friend got 3 guys in one shot with it!
Those being, all three of the rest of us
halcyon elk
WHAT DO THE SYRINGES DO
fossil kernelBOT
Sorry, unable to find a tag named syringes.
Spoiler: What each syringe does: ||The red one gives you health, but also infection, the yellow/green one buffs your hammer for short time, also gives you infection.||
west crow
amazing!
slim hearth
Does anyone know if there is a difference to why you would choose HEL Rifle over Sniper or vice versa? They SEEM comparable
atomic escarp
hel rifle penetrates but does less damage than the sniper but can still kill scouts
sniper can 1 shot a giant to the back of the head
(and can kill the scout with a body shot) correct me if I'm wrong
slim hearth
Okay, that seems about right. I figured Sniper would realistically do more
atomic escarp
sniper is better for giants hel rifle is better for hordes cause of the penetrating rounds and more ammo
What is the new enemies name in R3B2?
mossy yoke
Whatever you want to call it
The devs don't name them
They leave that to the community
atomic escarp
For the ending of B1 ||is it supposed to be a constant alarm like the C2 door?||
The two times I've played it, it was like that. Like after the 2nd terminal.
yes the ending alarm does not stop
Aight
you need to open another alarm door
or ||before you do an uplink do that alarm first||
summer hamlet
Can we talk about the new enemy in B2||THE SPIDER DUDE ||
atomic escarp
I liked how she thrusts.
summer hamlet
lmao
atomic escarp
👀
summer hamlet
and|| can you wake up the little sack things?||
candid bear
silver jetty
@atomic escarp can you kill the birther just by shooting it?
atomic escarp
you have to shoot a specific spot
silver jetty
ohhhhhhhhh ok ty
mild sonnet
so theres a boss??
pale mountain
That birther is fucking scary bros
mild sonnet
also whats the story with D1??
spark niche
How many of the levels are actually in The Lab area, actually?
mild sonnet
yea
mild sonnet
is there any infection stuff in R3 besides A2???
atomic escarp
yes'
mild sonnet
zits??
atomic escarp
yes
mild sonnet
K
atomic escarp
b2 has alot
spark niche
Legitimately upsetting, we get this super cool environment...and then we rarely see it
atomic escarp
best part of the lab: the roids you randomly find
spark niche
The best part of it is actually seeing it tbh
atomic escarp
they're probably going to add more of the lab in R4, a boy can hope
but for now they might just be testing those environments
coarse gate
for a1, can you ignore the giants in the spawn room
hexed vapor
Yes.
coarse gate
you dont go back to spwan?
coarse gate
you still have to clear?
flint kestrel
what's up with the story?
hexed vapor
Yah, you have a loud extract in that zone.
desert steppe
Im curious why is the lab only for one map?
hexed vapor
Turns out DMR still sucks
still 7 kills per ammo use
no extra ammo means it only does a little more damage than before
desert steppe
@mortal granite how so?
mortal granite
did you beat all levels?
desert steppe
currently at R3B2
mortal granite
oh
desert steppe
Have you beat all the levels?
atomic escarp
Currently on D1
mellow creek
goodluck
desert steppe
GL
gritty nacelle
so how do you take out the spider boi from B2 ?
mellow creek
light em up
mortal granite
shoot the bloob
coming close causing them to spawn more mobs quickly
i need to test more with that enemy
mellow creek
yeah
if u are far away it will not spawn mobs
theres a safety distance for that spiddy
coarse heart
does shooting them count as scaring them?
coarse heart
okay thanks
coarse heart
yeah i was with a group and we thought if we just c foamed them
then shot we would be good
but nope
coarse heart
u can c foam it
mellow creek
try to shoot it when u guys are close
arms/legs are all bullets resistant
/ damage immunity
not sure which
but our crosshair was whitewhen we aim at those parts
rare crane
white hitmarker means lmao try harder
coarse gate
whats the point of the hel weapons?
glad solstice
They're good for firing into a crowd of enemies
Also fun fact HEL guns are what they use to research high speed impacts & simulate asteroid impacts and stuff.
hexed vapor
What loadouts are people using now?
mortal granite
combat shotgun
hexed vapor
For me, it's still very situational but the weapons I use situational have changed.
velvet flower
Too soon to tell, everyone still testing stuff.
hexed vapor
You probably still gravitate to stuff though, right?
velvet flower
Yeah, still progressing.
gritty nacelle
Rifle and Combat shotgun when I have a mission where you gotta hold out, and Bullpup and shotgun when playing offensive
polar island
so has anybody here seen the new enemy variations? if so what are they?
rare crane
tumors they do nothing
mortal granite
you will see it all
rare crane
but tumors
polar island
If they do nothing how are they a new enemy? Lol
twilit agate
any tips for dealing with the final wave of A1 solo since the neonate HSU thing slows you down?
hexed vapor
It does more than 60% FF
mortal granite
i need the burst canon on the back of giant
hexed vapor
It does 120% across all 5 shots, 24% per.
harsh pelican
sick
hexed vapor
Pretty sure it's exactly 120% unless it does over 24% per shot.
coarse gate
for a2, wht happens after you put all 4 cells in the gen?
hexed vapor
Alarm. It's a single team scan, though. After that, it's just a loud extraction.
I wonder if the melee syringe is a good scout killing method.
If you do a full charge with it, you are guaranteed to kill no matter where you hit it.
azure oyster
Is that what the syringe is for, just melee?
hexed vapor
The yellow one, yes.
Triples melee damage.
Unclear if it also gives damage resist or anything.
azure oyster
Oh, there's multiple ones?
azure oyster
So what does the other do then?
hexed vapor
Restores health.
azure oyster
Ooooh nice, ok thank you.
hexed vapor
Np.
Based on rudimentary damage numbers, carbine seems to be the most effective for raw damage while SMG still seems to be one of the best striker killers (although pistol seems to be optimal now).
azure oyster
Did pistol get buffed or something?
hexed vapor
Actually no, looks like I miscalculated
azure oyster
Haven't read yet
hexed vapor
still a 3 shot for strikers, which isn't enough
It's merely less bad
So SMG is still the optimal weapon.
glass sierra
Rifle is still ok too
hexed vapor
HEL weapons will depend entirely on how much you can get out of them. I think the only clearly bad one is HEL rifle due to low ammo and difficulty of use.
"Okay" in the sense that it's useable.
Rifle is among the worse of the primaries.
hexed vapor
Tier list for striker kills seems to be shaping up to be:
DMR 7
Carbine 8.5
Pistol 10
Rifle 11
Assault rifle 12.5
Bullpup rifle 13
SMG 14
Bro, ADS
It's not that hard
arctic sparrow
Is the Rifle a better or worse DMR?
hexed vapor
Much better
hexed vapor
It just can't get as many kills in the same number of ammo packs
arctic sparrow
How is the new DMR?
hexed vapor
Just as bad as it was before. It still gets 14 per ammo pack, which means it's not improved at all for efficiency.
arctic sparrow
I still keep finding that I have to use a headshot and body shot to kill a striker, versus with shooters it knocks them down in one headshot.
Per ammo pack is not really a value to go off of for me.
Since not everyone will use an ammo pack at the same time.
arctic sparrow
I only ever accept an ammo pack when I'm down to 20% on both weapons.
But if there are too many ammo packs,
Of course I'll take one.
glass sierra
I truely hate the “”meta””
hexed vapor
As long as you have 20% free on main you can take a pack.
arctic sparrow
I don't think there should be a meta, and we shouldn't be shaming people for playing how they want to.
opaque robin
there will always be a meta
mellow creek
i think ammo pack 's heal is dependant on both primary n secondary weapons
hexed vapor
It kind of matters when you're trying to play on the D or E tiers.
opaque robin
the best that can be done is to make all weapons roughly equally viable
mellow creek
i have an ammo pack healing 25% on primary and 10% on primary on 2 occasions with different secondary weapons%
hexed vapor
@mellow creek Probably a bug, or something to do with the primary itself.
arctic sparrow
I like using the Rifle so far.
glass sierra
yeah, the riffle probably fav gun rn
w/ the sniper
you play a lot more of a support role which is nice
esp. given that my aim isn’t the best in gtfo
hexed vapor
@arctic sparrow Like, if someone runs DMR on D1, they are legitimately a handicap, because they limit the amount of kills they can get with their main weapon every time they receive ammo. It has nothing to do with whether you're good enough with the weapon, you cannot get more than 7 kills that way.
arctic sparrow
If someone has an issue with the weapons I use, then they can leave, nothing is stopping them from doing so.
hexed vapor
Most people at that tier are trying to win.
arctic sparrow
I just don't think people should shame others or not play with them because they won't use the supposed "meta" weapons.
opaque robin
No one is shaming anyone.
mellow creek
i have to agree on weapon choices in harder levels d/e
opaque robin
people are just discussing what's best at deeper levels
hexed vapor
It's pragmatic. If I want to have better chances of winning the lower tier expeditions, I would prefer a team that can use the better weapons.
arctic sparrow
I just think it makes someone appear as an elitist when they try to dictate what someone can and can't use.
opaque robin
I don't think anyone will dictate what to use on A levels
hexed vapor
I mean, what do you want from people?
opaque robin
on D or E levels? Well, you have to go in with the best chances possible
mellow creek
doesnt really matter till D and E
hexed vapor
Do you think I should throw D1 and run multiple DMRs?
hexed vapor
It's a hardcore game, your loadout is a part of the game.
opaque robin
Just like no one can FORCE you to use a certain weapon, no one is FORCED to keep you in their lobby either.
prime echo
I believe the DMR is suboptimal but at the same time one of the guys I saw duo R2D2 had a DMR
hexed vapor
Yes, and better players will avoid the garbage weapons.
arctic sparrow
I just want people to be more open and accepting to the idea that not everyone wants to use certain weapons because it's the "meta" loadout.
prime echo
So I don't think it really matters toooo much what weapon you use if you're good
hexed vapor
R2D2 was not tight on ammunition either.
prime echo
This is true
opaque robin
Again, no one is really talking about using meta weapons until the really tough levels
glass sierra
wait until smg nerf
atomic escarp
1.) All weapons are good. No weapon is trash. Of course there will be weapons that will just be better and more effective than others. Of course they will outperform some other weaker weapons.
2.) It depends on the person playing the weapon. I've played with a few who know how to use the DMR effectively.
hexed vapor
A lot of expeditions place heavier emphasis on how much ammo you have, and that's when the difficulty is influenced a lot more by the weapons you use.
arctic sparrow
Depending on the person, the DMR can either be an amazing weapon or a shitty one.
opaque robin
I dunno, I feel like the DMR is trash unless your aim is on point personally.
That being said, I've stopped using it because I don't have the accuracy to land headshot after headshot on moving targets
hexed vapor
I don't think you get it, DMR is capped.
atomic escarp
@arctic sparrow You summed it right, same with the Rifle.
glass sierra
Rifle has a good scope for me
zenith crystal
Will they unlock more missions like last rundown?
mellow creek
dmr is as amazing as it is eating up resources
arctic sparrow
Rifle is my favorite weapon so far.
hexed vapor
The only use you can get out of it is weakening enemies, which, while a viable strategy, requires the right playstyle and team loadout.
glass sierra
so I can consistently shoot headshots
mellow creek
i cant denied its good
opaque robin
and tbh, the DMR may drag a team down because of limited ammo/kills per ammo pack
mellow creek
but the way ammopack isnt effieciently used is not ideal
arctic sparrow
I have good aim, so I feel the DMR and Rifle are good weapons for me.
mellow creek
since u are not soloing
glass sierra
DMR has needed a buff from day I
mellow creek
lol u can kill 7 sleepers while ur teamates each has the ability to kill 10 each
atomic escarp
Anyone got tips on solo'ing A3? also morning peeps
hexed vapor
DMR in R1 was... hard to put into words
mellow creek
or even 15 each
hexed vapor
it was so bad.
opaque robin
yeah
glass sierra
yeah for sure
pallid girder
yeah
opaque robin
it really just needs more ammo
glass sierra
the buff helped
thorn dew
Yeah..
opaque robin
or the ability to one shot strikers I guess? I dunno, that might be too much
hexed vapor
The buff didn't help in R3, the ammo per ammo use hasn't changed at all.
thorn dew
I mean yes but still. It is pretty meh.
hexed vapor
They really needed to make it at least 9-10 kills per ammo use,
Pistol is in a similar spot.
thorn dew
The shotgun gives me mixed signals. I like it but.. the combat shotgun is so much better
hexed vapor
It's hard to use and also sucks .
arctic sparrow
Again, I think kills per ammo pack use is an inconsistent method of measuring a weapon's potential since everyone will use ammo packs at different times.
opaque robin
kills per ammo pack is just a way to standardize the weapons and compare them against each other
hexed vapor
Shotgun leans towards utility due to high damage, while combat shotgun leans towards horde kills.
atomic escarp
Revolver master race
mellow creek
burst cannon master race for killnig giants
atomic escarp
Yis
mellow creek
prove me wrong
atomic escarp
I agree there
@arctic sparrow They are good weapons. Most people don't understand that they are supporting weapons. The reason why many deem it trash is because it doesn't do the killing power that's really needed in this game. I have more respect for people who use it than typical guns, it's a whole playstyle change in itself but you need a team to build around it. I've played with people who made the DMR very effective.
but Revo best gun
arctic sparrow
But it becomes a flawed and misleading method of representing data by assuming everyone uses an ammo pack at the exact same intervals, @opaque robin
opaque robin
Not when talking about potential efficiency of weapons
livid moat
Shotgun can two shot melee strikers from the back.
mellow creek
yeah wait till u reach levels where everyone has things to do like d1
livid moat
Gotta be closer to do so with the combat shotgun
mellow creek
u will get it
opaque robin
and in reality, DMR is even worse off because it can't afford to be landing bodyshots instead of headshots
livid moat
You tend to need to use an extra shell if doing big boi takedowns cuz of the spread.
livid moat
w/ combat shotgun*
arctic sparrow
People who can aim swiftly and accurately will be able to use the DMR effectively.
atomic escarp
D1 is my new favourite mission.
opaque robin
and you really can't take the time to line up every shot when there's 10 strikers rushing you
atomic escarp
@arctic sparrow Most people can't.
livid moat
And Quothe, considering we have a gun that can now pierce a line of sleepers
hexed vapor
People can aim swiftly and control their spray will be able to use the SMG effectively, and to greater effect.
livid moat
The HEL Gun would probably overperform there if they're straight line runners.
opaque robin
Sure, which is something to consider if you're doing a generator defense mission like in R1 iirc
atomic escarp
DMR takes more skill to use and aim than an SMG.
livid moat
I want to run it and the bullpup but the combined reload time is like
atomic escarp
Nah, it's all fine man
hexed vapor
But Oz, that's even more reason to run SMG
livid moat
8 seconds lol
arctic sparrow
I like using the Rifle and Revolver.
hexed vapor
Because it's easier to outperform DMRs by a significant margin, about double.
livid moat
It's good for memes.
arctic sparrow
"I am frustrated with a weapon I've never used or touched,"
hexed vapor
Rifle is fun, and fills the niche I wish DMR did. It's just not useful for most levels.
livid moat
It's so bad they can't even call it a cool name anymore.
Even the devs know it's in a rough spot.
atomic escarp
It's not a good weapon but then again everyone performs well with their own best weapons
@hexed vapor Like I said previously, DMRs are good if you know how to use it but it doesn't have the killing power needed like most weapons do.
livid moat
Lololol
hexed vapor
No, it's not good
pallid girder
My new favorite weapon: PogChamp
opaque robin
If a weapon doesn't have the killing power needed, it's by definition, not good.
hexed vapor
You get up to 7 kills and can't deal enough damage compared to almost everything else.
livid moat
New meme loadout is gonna be Rifle + Burst cannon
hexed vapor
DMR only works as a support weapon.
arctic sparrow
How do you even know what everyone's kill count or damage dealt data is?
atomic escarp
I mean all the weapons can be good in certain situations, whether you get into that situation is another story though
arctic sparrow
No one can know that for sure.
velvet flower
"Killing power" cannot only be judged by "Solo kills per ammo-pack use"
arctic sparrow
Unless you're counting it.
livid moat
Mostly estimations but yeah. Counting shots on each body part basically.
opaque robin
@arctic sparrow mathematically, the DMR only gets 7 kills per ammo pack
hexed vapor
It's very easy to calculate the maximum potential of a weapon.
opaque robin
meaning if the DMR is getting the most kills, it's also consuming the most ammo
mellow creek
^
opaque robin
which other weapons could use better
arctic sparrow
Define "per ammo pack", are you saying everyone uses an ammo pack the same way and at the same intervals every time?
hexed vapor
Ammo pack use / shots required to kill to the face
Is the maximum kills per ammo use.
arctic sparrow
I find it hard to believe that everyone will use an ammo pack within the same exact intervals.
livid moat
No, but the amount of ammo you get is different depending on the gun.
opaque robin
using it in the most efficient manner possible @arctic sparrow
mellow creek
yeah
livid moat
IF you get more bullets for a gun that kills faster as well, it is automatically always better.
mellow creek
it means u have yet to reach the later levels
atomic escarp
It's good, you just don't know how to play with it. Putting statistics and numbers doesn't match reality. I've seen people be an extremely good support player with it, like I said before: It's a supporting playerstyle and that's how it should be used.
opaque robin
i.e., not letting any percent go to waste
hexed vapor
@arctic sparrow Okay, but that's a new problem. You're essentially saying you save ammo by not using it, which means you aren't doing anything for your team with your main weapon.
opaque robin
no, max bullets gained from an ammo pack / bullets to kill
atomic escarp
What a fun chat this is 
arctic sparrow
"You aren't doing anything for the team if you're not shooting your weapons all the time 24/7,"
opaque robin
i.e. if you get 10 bullets from an ammo pack, and need one shot to kill, you get 10 kills (at most) per ammo pack
arctic sparrow
"You aren't doing anything for the team if you don't empty your SMG into an empty room every time,"
opaque robin
It's really more for alarms or loud extractions
atomic escarp
Hammer only run anyone?
mellow creek
l0l
atomic escarp
Best weapon in the game?
Hammer.
opaque robin
and misrepresenting it as "every room must be loud" is a bit dishonest
hexed vapor
If you're going to fight, you're essentially offloading almost the entire battle to the players who have the actually effective weapons.
mellow creek
shawn have u attempted r2e1 or r3d1
arctic sparrow
"You aren't doing anything for the team if you keep shooting your weapons all the time even if there are no enemies to shoot at,"
mellow creek
lol
hexed vapor
So instead of having 4 people fighting in an alarm, you might have 2.
opaque robin
Wow, the bad faith is real from shawn.
livid moat
It's like, I don't think anyone's even dissing anyone for using it. People are literally just saying that objectively it is worse than the other guns.
mellow creek
im just curious
livid moat
Because it is.
opaque robin
He doesn't want to hear the numbers, he wants to hear "DMR is gud"
atomic escarp
Starting to sense some hoooostile vibes about the pew pews
hexed vapor
You might as well not have brought a weapon if you won't be using it for the mandatory combat.
opaque robin
^
mellow creek
^^
arctic sparrow
I don't think I should blame my failures on, "Oh, you didn't choose the meta weapons everyone is screaming at you to use,".
livid moat
opaque robin
No one is saying that shawn.
mellow creek
noone is blaming you lol
livid moat
You can fail these missions? 
mellow creek
we are just saying objectively , there are more suitable weapons out there
opaque robin
It's about how you can get the best chances at deeper levels
mellow creek
lmao
hexed vapor
The point is that saying "DMR is just as good as other options" is about as absurd as saying "four biotrackers is just as good as other options."
arctic sparrow
I mean, just let people use what weapons they want, and if they fail, it's their fault.
hexed vapor
What is your point?
opaque robin
again, shawn, you're missing the point
mellow creek
noone is stopping u from using dmr l0l
the whole point of this debate wasnt eventhis
opaque robin
it's about the getting the best chances at surviving the deeper levels
livid moat
Yah I'll never personally tell anyone to take a specific weapon other than like, the specific cases of Sniper on run and gunners
hexed vapor
Depending on the numbers, sniper might actually be okay on D1... after the first part @atomic escarp
opaque robin
If you want a better chance, you generally won't bring a DMR
hexed vapor
It has less damage per shot but more kill potential.
mellow creek
3 sniper is good thou
arctic sparrow
I feel a player's competency always dictates the chances of success instead of what weapons were chosen.
opaque robin
unless the level is drowning you in ammo
velvet flower
The killing potential is just impractically calculated. It's like you're still able to headshot after the head is gone.
opaque robin
A player with a better weapon has a better chance than a player with a bad weapon
assuming equal skill
hexed vapor
Yes, but your competency is straight up less if you have a less powerful weapon.
mellow creek
yea
arctic sparrow
Not really.
opaque robin
and if you're a god with the DMR at getting headshots, then you'd probably be even better with something like the SMG
mellow creek
^
hexed vapor
A team of 4 is genuinely less competent with all biotrackers than if they use other tools. It's a handicap.
arctic sparrow
But I don't want to use the SMG because I didn't like it at all when I used it, so I will stick with DMR/Rifle.
opaque robin
once you get a little practice with the weapon obviously
hexed vapor
Yes, we're talking about mains
opaque robin
no one is telling you what to use shawn, unless you want a more efficient weapon
It's not about you specifically
it's about what is, in general, the most efficient weapons
livid moat
This message brought to you by the Bullpup gang.
opaque robin
you don't have to like it, but it's hard to argue with the math that says what gets the most potential kills per ammo pack
livid moat
That gun is bibbity bonkers.
velvet flower
But the model you're using are just far from the reality.
arctic sparrow
Again, tell me what is "potential kills per ammo pack" because it sounds like a very subjective and inconsistent data gathering method.
hexed vapor
This has been explained to you several times.
opaque robin
@arctic sparrow I already did, it's ammo gained per pack usage / bullets to kill
frail elbow
after playing D2 last rundown
arctic sparrow
When is the ammo pack used?
frail elbow
i will always use a burst/smg variant
hexed vapor
Ammo packs give you a specific amount of bullets each time for each weapon.
opaque robin
when no percent would be wasted
arctic sparrow
When is it exactly used? 0%? 20%?
mellow creek
lets just compare each ammopack use on each weapons
hexed vapor
It doesn't matter, Shawn
opaque robin
when you can get every bullet from the pack without wasting one.
velvet flower
When you compare a weapon by "kill per ammopack use", you're saying a weapon don't need ammo with minimum damage is the best and ignoring all other elements in a FPS game.
opaque robin
@velvet flower no, it's more saying it's the most efficient with limited resources
velvet flower
If GTFO is a game that, only regular strikers standing still, then your model makes sense.
hexed vapor
Factors like ease of use and range do matter, nobody said otherwise.
However, efficiency is very influential.
livid moat
Right. We have been talking strictly on the assumption of optimal range and perfect play
Obviously there's variance
There's huge variance.
mellow creek
there wont be perfect plays in harder levels
lol
theres too many situations to take note
fighting in the fog
surge spawns etc
frail elbow
nerf hammer ammo
mellow creek
random "rng" scouts screaming b4 u even see it
livid moat
Indeed. Which is why you will have a better chance with a more efficient weapon because the increased efficiency lessens the variance of player skill.
mellow creek
^
livid moat
If I miss three bullets with my bullpup I give no shits.
mellow creek
^
livid moat
If I miss three with my DMR I feel like I have potato aim and should uninstall because I wasted half a clip and killed nothing
mellow creek
^
arctic sparrow
3 bullets missed out of 12 is half a clip?
frail elbow
and then you have the host lag and sleepers start teleporting
livid moat
Hyperbole.
arctic sparrow
Not a good hyperbole.
frail elbow
and giants are doing 180s to slap you across the ass
mellow creek
again u are not getting the point
the point is there will never be a perfect play for you to achieve
velvet flower
Yes, you're right. I just want to point out, there's no "objective way" to say a primary weapon is "efficient"
mellow creek
when theres too many things going on
hexed vapor
However, you can find a lot of the range, ease of use, reload speed, or fire-rate on weapons that are in the better half of efficiency, which is why it's very hard to justify using weapons like DMR or pistol.
mellow creek
licking by sleepers randoming cause ur aim to sway
zenith crystal
Now the real question is which is the best melee?
hexed vapor
"Efficiency" is a metric in use, it's not a sum of all the weapon's pros and cons
livid moat
Gavel.
zenith crystal
True
livid moat
Duh. Next topic.
terse relic
Maul
opaque robin
mallet gang rise up
velvet flower
I can even argue that, in a team that one DMRer takes out all the shooter (which DMR has the highest kill potential) and only takes out the stirkers head while one SMGer do the rest damage is the most "efficient"
pallid girder
mallet gang represent
zenith crystal
Gavel has secret buff trust me
livid moat
Morale boost.
hexed vapor
@velvet flower We already talked about this, read the fucking convo.
velvet flower
And you're still calling DMR is "not efficient"
hexed vapor
Yes, because "efficient" means something specific
mellow creek
guys if u want to compare just take this to d1
arctic sparrow
I still feel like this conversation represents the people who will threaten to vote kick the Medic in TF2 for not using the Ubersaw or Crusader's Crossbow.
velvet flower
Efficient means something specific but not "SOLO kills per ammopack use"
mellow creek
its pointlesss debating over weapons in stages like A - C
where sleeprs are stationary
waiting for us to shoot them
hexed vapor
Kill efficient weapons are weapons which can get the most kills for the ammo they receive.
Damage efficient weapons are weapons which can deal the most damage for the ammo they receive.
velvet flower
True
arctic sparrow
Since when do we have to divide weapons into subjective categories?
hexed vapor
Nobody said you had to, you're just being an ass.
opaque robin
what do you mean by "subjective categories"?
hexed vapor
Most people consider those categories useful for weapon choice.
arctic sparrow
Efficient is a very subjective term. What is efficient to you might not be the same as to someone else.
hexed vapor
Okay, but that's why I'm specific about what I'm talking about
opaque robin
it really isn't though by the definition that's been explained several times
livid moat
We are talking about specific efficiencies. Bullet efficiency.
Not overall efficiency.
hexed vapor
I was clear from the outset that kill efficiency was what I was evaluating.
livid moat
Literally a troll lol
mellow creek
l0l0l
livid moat
Or 12.
opaque robin
why not both
velvet flower
I did a lot of statistical/mathematical analysis on my own for weapon choices. So I love this kind of conversation about data/math, but I strongly disagree with statement like "If you're doing well using DMR, you did better using SMG".
💤
hexed vapor
But we specifically talked about tactics, and none of the tactics you mentioned are in use dh.
Your suggestions are also very situational.
opaque robin
and very reliant on terrain iirc
hexed vapor
Which means DMR is not, in-fact, a weapon that's going to be good to use on every level because of those tactics.
mellow creek
yeah
mellow creek
early stages has no qualms on what loadout u want to use
atomic escarp
It's entertainment
mellow creek
but more punishing stages lol r2E1 r3D1
weapon choi9ce is important
for the mechanics that u will be encountering
hexed vapor
I use rifle on A3 because it's more enjoyable, makes use of the long hallways, lets me support sentries, and ammo isn't very tight.
hexed vapor
Not gonna use it on D1
velvet flower
Well, I tried machine pistol/SMG when R2E1, and I found DMR still performs the best, I don't do R3D1 yet so no comment.
mellow creek
guess u gona run and die
arctic sparrow
Are people saying weapon choice is more important than user skill?
mellow creek
lol
opaque robin
@arctic sparrow no one is saying that, you're creating a strawman
frail elbow
anythings possible with 3k health
and walls that you can hide behind were nothing can hit you
atomic escarp
Are shotguns good for the babies? Because of the pellet spred?
frail elbow
yes
atomic escarp
Yes, I'd like to try the combat shotty on the babies.
No damage full rundown run anyone?
frail elbow
👀
hexed vapor
@velvet flower Carbine and burst rifle are also both technically better for weakening strikers due to their single-burst damage. Their only disadvantage is range.
zenith crystal
Will there be more missions after D1 that they unlock like last rundown?
hexed vapor
No.
zenith crystal
oof
arctic sparrow
I want more E expeditions.
atomic escarp
I love D1.
arctic sparrow
I'm at B2 right now.
zenith crystal
i love it to but i would like more missions because i love the enviorment
velvet flower
@hexed vapor Yes, I only tried Carbine once so can't say too much. Burst rifle outperforms DMR in R2 in many ways except: Staggers from first hit can make you miss the following shots. It happened almost all the time when headshoting shooters, and sometimes happen to strikers as well which is annoying..
zenith crystal
do we know how long this rundown will last?
arctic sparrow
Until the next one is made.
zenith crystal
nice one
atomic escarp
What's really underated about DMRs and the rifle is the ability to do staggers. It's really nice.
arctic sparrow
I'm good with the rifle and DMR because I already know many of the stagger patterns and know exactly where to aim next for the headshot.
hexed vapor
It's almost entirely up to how much damage you do.
velvet flower
Only DMR can one flick to body causes staggers, that's another point I love it.
atomic escarp
DMR and the Rifle are the best with staggering. 1 shot is all it needs to stagger. Others take multupt shots.
velvet flower
Rifle can't one body shot stagger, though
livid moat
I’m a little sad that not more missions were lab themed
atomic escarp
Really? I've seen it do it.
livid moat
This aesthetic is hella clean.
velvet flower
Pretty sure it doesn't
arctic sparrow
How many of the 7 expeditions were lab themed?
atomic escarp
I'll so some more testing on it.
hexed vapor
It's probably dependent on how much damage the enemy has already taken.
atomic escarp
@arctic sparrow 2.
arctic sparrow
A1 and D1 I assume?
livid moat
A1, D1
arctic sparrow
Why? XD
hexed vapor
Rifle has high single-shot damage, so it probably will stagger often but not always.
livid moat
The rest are a mix of the complex levels and digsite levels.
arctic sparrow
I felt A2 and A3 were just carbon copies of D1 and D2 from R2, but made easier.
arctic sparrow
Yea, but I'd prefer if all expeditions had the same theme.
livid moat
Well they were the most unique mechanics so far
arctic sparrow
I thought this was lab themed, not digsite or refinery again.
atomic escarp
What are your guys thoughts on the pistol?
hexed vapor
They add environments, but they're not really a "focus" besides getting the spotlight for the first and final levels.
halcyon geyser
Its not a primary but I favor the Revolver
unreal meadow
I think the pistol is very good in the right hands, but I honestly fell in love with the bullpup