gtfo-spoiler-chat

[prisma zodiac]

Thats what i meant, we lowered it heavily with hundreds and thousands of failed attempts

Thats bs

„Tons of runs“

An absolute minority of runs gets bugged to be incompletable

[nocturne flax]

Foam its antifun

Unless you cfoaming the floor

[kind swan]

instructions unclear. I somehow foamed Hackett

[prisma zodiac]

i think foam was used in
R2C1, R3A1, R3A2, R3D1, R4D2 and R7D2

with R3A1, A2 and R7D2 all using floor foam

[nocturne flax]

Who woudnt

[fair fern]

i wish i can foam him, but he has wall hack so

[real moss]

easy solution: the woods

[hexed vapor]

I'm leaning against knife again.

It seem surprisingly common for a shooter far away to long-range if you W key a little too hard.

And tbh it just feels like I'm playing hammer most of the time.

And if the group is too big

You have to set up for it anyway

[fresh bronze]

real knife players live with 20% hp and just speed clear all rooms

[hexed vapor]

Real players just pull rooms but don't take needless damage.

[fresh bronze]

needing more than 20% hp is a sign of weakness

[chrome rivet]

profile picture checks out

[coarse berry]

real

[velvet linden]

having 20% hp is a sign of being bad

[deft kiln]

yeah

consever health earlier

[astral ferry]

or make sure to hold the 4 use kiting med

[winter wharf]

no, that's for kiting

don't use it

[fallow wasp]

Holding onto a 5 use medkit prevents heart rate from going up

[faint vapor]

does anyone have the r4 google sheets cheat sheet

[daring pilot]

There isn’t one for ALT iirc

[faint vapor]

the maps/objective have not changed right?

[daring pilot]

Enemy counts and smaller stuff has

[high vortex]

You’re amazing 🙂

[deft kiln]

no you are amazing

let me see your shooter!

[high vortex]

You’re mom*

[high vortex]

Yes chef! 🫡

[eternal dragon]

Margharete

[atomic escarp]

gorlami 🤌

[bold widget]

A river derchi

[tough badger]

gabagool

[fresh bronze]

Real chads lose all hp intentionally so they can play the game on hardmode

[velvet linden]

brother i think you may just be bad

[hidden crater]

I drop down, immediately have me and friends get us down to 20%, and melee only, just like the warden intended

[solemn wigeon]

Why not 1%

[fresh bronze]

Nah i just aint a beta bitch

[velvet linden]

• man who is definitely not coping that he is bad

[fresh bronze]

Strange comin from a man who needs more than 20% hp to survive

[velvet linden]

now when did I say that

[fresh bronze]

Gotta choose a side brotha and you chose the beta bitch side

[velvet linden]

got any proof for that

[fresh bronze]

My proof is that i made it the fuck up

[velvet linden]

so you dont have any

[fresh bronze]

Nah its just this convo

It is the proof

[velvet linden]

this convo is then also my proof against it

[fresh bronze]

You took the side against 20hp gang which is the only proof needed

[velvet linden]

how is that proof though

[fresh bronze]

🗿

[velvet linden]

R2D1 - Statistics wins again

[hexed vapor]

Tbqh I think most highly competent players take the side against 20HP gang.

20HP strat only conserves health if you're already taking a decent amount of damage, which means you're just more likely to go down.

Also means you have no safety if you're actually in danger, which is when you absolutely do not want to go down under any cirumstances.

[fresh bronze]

i obviously dont care about hp at all

but we do almost always have a man on knife who gets 0 med who clears rooms

atleast on a-c tier maps

only get med for larger alarms not that you really need more than 20% hp for anything under a class 5

[velvet linden]

dam knife guy lettin' you down

[fresh bronze]

Knufe guy based sqving 20-30 minutes a run

[velvet linden]

(he isnt)

[wary olive]

Why would you want to be at 20 hp if you don't need to be?

[fresh bronze]

you wouldnt get it if you dont already

[winter wharf]

you don't actually want to be on 20

but if you are it isn't that bad in most situations

[wary olive]

Maybe you haven't played some maps where health is a valuable resource and being at 20 hp before a hurdle is a very bad idea?

[prisma zodiac]

low health boosters

totally worth and needed

[coarse berry]

why does your knife guy take so much damage though

i run knife and im usually at 100 clearing rooms

[hexed vapor]

If you can't do that w/ hammer, you may be bad at hammer.

Tbh I wouldn't be surprised if bat is faster in more situations simply by virtue of having access to more stealth tech.

[half hornet]

Such as?

Tech 1: Aim for the head.
Tech 2: Stunlock to avoid screams.
That's all i know.

[hexed vapor]

Force-aggro, good low-charge breakpoints, is fast enough that it has access to the same playstyle as knife.

[half hornet]

I like the knife for spec ops feel, but yeah... I rarely take it on missions that are actually hard. Maybe on A1 or something.

[hexed vapor]

I'm playing it more for fun and to properly learn the weapon, but...

I'm really starting to feel like it doesn't have a niche at all.

[half hornet]

The bat is just better on average

Same range, same oneshots to the head, you can stunlock people if things go bad and you break locks in one hit

What exactly knife does better? I guess it charges a tiny bit faster?

[hexed vapor]

Faster charge, yeah.

[half hornet]

Bat takes like a second or two, knife takes life half

[hexed vapor]

P sure both are sub-1 second.

[half hornet]

It charges so fast there's no reason to ever use normal quick attacks.

They might as well remove the quick slashes, i just don't see what's the point of them

[coarse berry]

yeah if you're not charging knife theres no point

IMO bat to me doesn't feel very useful, like a watered-down version of the knife

[velvet flower]

Bat is like 90% knife power against smalls and way better against chargers/bigs. Even one tap the padlock

[tulip island]

you can kill chargers with one full charge and a uncharged quick tap to the back on bat, feels nice to do

[coarse berry]

my issue is that you get exhausted way too fast using the bat in combat, and honestly it's basically the same against chargers. Knife just needs two charged hits which is easy

[narrow gulch]

(they cant be waking up at all tho)

[hexed vapor]

Melee kiting is dead anyway, and is mostly a matter of repositioning.

Vs. in stealth where knife is mid.

[coarse berry]

I really don't think its that bad, but im certainly not gonna complain if they buff the knife lol

[hexed vapor]

My experience using it makes me feel like it's pretty bad.

[coarse berry]

once I started using it I have ran it on every level pretty much. sledge just doesn't click for me for some reason

[winter wharf]

knife is good for killing smalls, but again sledgehammer does good enough of a job with that and far outshines knife for chargers and giants (and more freedom with scouts)

knife hitbox being funky is also a thing

[coarse berry]

the only thing that annoys me about knife is the hitbox yeah, the way your character stabs with it means you can ding walls when it really feels like you shouldn't have

and shooter arms block a lot of headshots if you have a weird angle

[velvet flower]

Shooter arm is a thing for all melees

For shorter melee like knife/bat you just have to get closer for hitscan range

[tulip island]

bat against giants is scary with the short range and the sledge can just break limbs for a guaranteed stagger anyway

[winter wharf]

as long as you full charge sledge I think you get guaranteed stagger

[hexed vapor]

It's so good that I think it's basically on-par with knife 90% of the time.

[winter wharf]

not a long stagger, but stagger nonetheless

[hexed vapor]

Knife is absurdly impractical.

[coarse berry]

sounds to me like a knife buff is in order

[velvet flower]

You can't full charge hammer vs a giant even you limb-stagger if you want to stealth solo, though. Bat is actually easier when stealth solo giant

[west crow]

i think your wording is weird

otherwise that is just wrong

[coarse berry]

i thought you had to partial charge the sledge to stunlock a giant

full charge is for bat

[west crow]

unless you mean like you shouldn't full charge stagger a giant with a hammer for a solo kil

then, ehh

maybe

[coarse berry]

my strat to kill giants as knife user:

stab once in head, let someone else do it

[west crow]

use the gun

[tulip island]

lmao

[west crow]

pretty sure you're doing less damage with knife stealth occi

[coarse berry]

Slightly less than sledge

[west crow]

than if a hammer just hit the occi himself

simply TROLLING

[narrow gulch]

real strat is to break the shoulder with stealth hit and then get occi with rest of hits

[coarse berry]

back of the head to a sleeping giant with knife does 49.5, sledge would do 60

but after that i do WAY less damage so letting knife user get in the first hit is important

[west crow]

that's a bit backwards methinks

you're better just having the sledge get the 60

let the knife do limb pokes

[coarse berry]

if sledge hit the occi and knife hits back afterwards, you get a total of 71 damage (60 + 11)

if knife hits occi and sledge hits back, you get 89.5 (49.5 + 40)

[west crow]

amazing

why not have two hammer users (60 + 40)

that's 100!

[coarse berry]

1. i despise hammer

2. giant still alive, ow

[west crow]

it's your preference to use a clearly disadvantaged weapon

[coarse berry]

beaten every level in the game with it

rarely has been an issue

[west crow]

yes because the weapons are very good

it's also very nice when you have 3 other players running actual weapons

[coarse berry]

my crew is usually 1 sledge 2 knives 1 bat

[west crow]

you are free to do that

it's your game

[kind swan]

instructions unclear.
Local 7ft tall Male was inflicted with Multiple Stab wounds from 4 escaped prisoners

[coarse berry]

gave him the 'pedos in prison' treatment

[wide lion]

It`s easy.

[lavish root]

does r4d2 have ghosts

[coarse berry]

yes

[obtuse surge]

[atomic escarp]

then don't full charge it

[atomic escarp]

https://streamable.com/vnckop

also you can full charge a giant (shooter) or have high latency

[prisma zodiac]

@tough atlas
example here
its lawless due to uplink skip, but we didnt use door bug (or other bugs classified as major)

[tough atlas]

Whoever said it looks like a spaceship controls was right

[prisma zodiac]

it could be a lot easier if speedrun.com wasnt so funky

[plush basin]

Choose some sub sub sub category and get a free WR!

[prisma zodiac]

they rly need to push the improved sub category update

[mental saddle]

shootwhenschaeffertalks%?

[tough atlas]

I mean just have a... how do you call them in english, waterfall menu?

[plush basin]

Noone is gonna beat my logless R1B1 Trio

[prisma zodiac]

like this? @tough atlas

[tough atlas]

That's better

[prisma zodiac]

it depends on number of variables, its automatic cant make that happen when i want

[solemn wigeon]

Bet

[prisma zodiac]

thats mostly just trio runs in general
logless wont get you first place unless you filter for it (i dont think it shows up as first otherwise at all)

[plush basin]

so logless isn't really a category but just a tag?

Is anyone running logless even?

tbh actually I don't want to know

[plush basin]

wish the randomiser server had anyone playing it, those are fun

[solemn wigeon]

Website said no, so we don't accept submissions anymore sadly

[plush basin]

just post screenshots 4head

doesn't have to be rocket science

oh well guess I'll just be the winner forever

[prisma zodiac]

a filter

pachi is

[solemn wigeon]

imagine

[obtuse surge]

the giant scream

at the exact same time

every damn time

so all you have to do is learn the timing

and then you cut off the scream

and kill him a million times faster than with bat

BUT BAT HAVE HIGH SKIL LCEILING

[half hornet]

What does a giant screaming even sounds like

[obtuse surge]

AUGHHHHHH

[half hornet]

Like they scream in pain an awful lot but I have no idea which sound of them awakes the room

As far as I was able to observe - the room just quietly wakes up

[wary olive]

the sound that wakes them up is "AUGHHHHHH"

[reef talon]

I love that verbal descriptor.

[tame cloak]

I remember watching a video about scream timings last year, the giant scream data you're looking for should be there
(There was also data about shooters being unable to scream scouts awake I think)

[kind swan]

Pokémon Sound text type energy

[hexed vapor]

Not waking scouts sounds like a bots issue and not a shooter thing.

[tame cloak]

The video had bots but they were all downed
Maybe shooters don't retarget their scream target?

[hexed vapor]

Can you send the vid?

[tame cloak]

I'm trying to find it with no luck, I'll try again when I get home

I cited it here back then, no vids tho
#general message

I'll try to check my yt history of that day

[tame cloak]

Wesley mentioned only the first scream of a given sleeper can wake things up, this might be what was happening

[pliant carbon]

Can I C foam a tank with a cfoam granade?

[half hornet]

Uhhhhh

Technically yes - as Ive seen one get cfoamed before, but it took a Cfoam mine + grenade before he froze.

Basically he needs like 2-3 nades

[solemn wigeon]

It also only lasts a mere couple of seconds

[pliant carbon]

[plush basin]

the tank is so angry he refuses to stay still for long

[pliant carbon]

I thought I could use one in R4C3 to clear the overload

The tank in the end

[solemn wigeon]

Do you not have a full team

[pliant carbon]

What about putting mines on the door?

[half hornet]

Consider mines instead

[pliant carbon]

I am using bots

I cleared secondary already

[half hornet]

You can insta kill him with enough mines

[pliant carbon]

How many are we talking about?

[solemn wigeon]

7

[half hornet]

A lot

7 best scenario

[pliant carbon]

Aight, will work out

my bot got kinda full mines

[half hornet]

But I'd overkill it just in case

[plush basin]

Be aware its not terribly consistent

[half hornet]

Also he might not give a shit either way and just walk through

[plush basin]

For me, anyway. There might be some nuance to it I don't know

[half hornet]

Its an unprecise science, unfortunately.

You're rolling the dice.

[pliant carbon]

I mean tbh I think I don't have much of a use for the remaining mines anyway

[half hornet]

Wellllll

There is 1 more door you'll need it for, maybe

[pliant carbon]

after I open the door I only need to get to the main objective bulkhead

[half hornet]

Otherwise...

[pliant carbon]

[half hornet]

Ahahaha

[pliant carbon]

After I open the door I have permanent alert

[half hornet]

Yeah right

[pliant carbon]

I hope the bots don't fail me

[half hornet]

That level made me rage something nasty

[pliant carbon]

already 2h or so in this mission

[half hornet]

So good luck

[pliant carbon]

on my first try I tried to clear overload first

[half hornet]

I predict either an alarm wipe or death by noammo

[pliant carbon]

biggest mistake

[velvet linden]

i predict a w

[pliant carbon]

Still got ammo

The chargers are more of a problem for the bots

I the end of the main objective really that hard?

Another mother or what

[velvet linden]

nah its not so bad

you might have to do more shooting cause youre with bots who can't hold an area

[pliant carbon]

Ah fuck I forgot I need to carry an item

And bots are bad at it

[velvet linden]

if you can get a bot to set foot inside the room, use the "pick up the objective item" command and just hold forward spawns

they can perfectly stealth and pick it up from the room

[pliant carbon]

my experience is bots dropping the item and not picking it up again

That ruined my mission sometimes already

Might aswell pick it up myself

[velvet linden]

then you're probably gonna have to shoot the room unless you get a really good spawn

[half hornet]

Yep

Cursed level

[pliant carbon]

What about Cfoaming the floor before the tank rushes out and then throwing C foam granade?

[half hornet]

I don't think it will work

It could, but probably won't

[velvet linden]

you would need a lot of cfoam on the floor

[tame cloak]

Okay so, I found the original video, and a few unlisted ones. I thought there would be text or any kind of explanation along but I might be heavily misremembering
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF7bExipqpQ

Giant that have a near instant scream sometimes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHJ2UhiLJ8E

The shooter thing I was talking about which might be a case of "the first scream already happened so it no longer has any effect"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP1P-AUCha8

[pliant carbon]

Feels bad, I killed the tank but the mob wave after wave killed me

Obviously all bots where downed by the tank..

[hexed vapor]

Wacky.

[pliant carbon]

So close
Side mission done, overload done. Bots to stupid to handle chargers

There where 2 chargers and he decided to revive

[half hornet]

Yep, exactly what I expected.

It took me like 8 attempts with people on that one, can't imagine bots.

[pliant carbon]

I usually do better with bots

Unless it's certain friends who know how to play this game

[fallow wasp]

Oi artek I’m invested in the story. You beat all of r4 yet?

[half hornet]

Yes

Otherwise you'd see me posting more Ls

E1 was genuinely easier than C3, only took like 5 attempts, 3 of which wiped in first 15 minutes

Until R5 drops - im retired to deal with other projects

... Or I might help a newbie with some moderate level like R1C1 or something.

[daring pilot]

*pulls up chair Captain America style
“So, you’ve wiped again on R1C1”

[half hornet]

More like:
quietly unzips Bullpup and HEL rifle

[winter wharf]

noooooo stop you're setting them a bad precedent

[prisma zodiac]

id argue, that was kinda you getting good teammates who carried early in E1 vs C3 :>

and that is taken from what you said regarding your clears for those levels (and your ranting for C3 )

[half hornet]

True, but still.

Sniping shadows with PR for 15 minutes is preferable to charger bullshit

[plush basin]

I hope you aren't downplaying achievements here Eva 👀 /s

[half hornet]

So sick of spiky Bois, theyre super cringe

[prisma zodiac]

id argue that mechanically r4c3 is the hardest non E1 level in r4

D2 (if taking secondary slow) is just quick execution on mostly easy things. C2 is just LONG

[coarse berry]

c2 is so fucking long

[daring pilot]

C2’s name literally means “bland”

[coarse berry]

pain

[half hornet]

Reminder that I bot solod c2

[coarse berry]

I did too it's not hard its just a slog

[prisma zodiac]

when im starting secondary/overload class 9 surge

when im going around main

theres 2 rough parts on C2

extract run for overload and the class 9 surge

everything else is just there, which isnt necessarily bad. Level is scary as hell for beginners

[daring pilot]

Yeah I tried C2 with bots and I almost actually fell asleep in my chair

Like no joke

I was in a packed room, and was pretty tired, and started nodding off waiting for shit to sync up

[coarse berry]

You just got Pabulum'd!

[daring pilot]

yup

from extracting of a thought, to boring, to horned

We love R4 C tier

[prisma zodiac]

R4C1 can be fun if done zoomish
R4C3 is fun (just dont fall asleep in extreme)

C2 is long

very long

[daring pilot]

I prefer B3

[coarse berry]

c3 was a fun level

[daring pilot]

I genuinely like B3, I don’t get why everyone hates it

[coarse berry]

powered up the cluster, and I went "wow, it actually cleared out the fog? is this level easy?" then overload smacks me in the teeth

[prisma zodiac]

i think seconary and overload are fun
main is kinda (good as a main itself, but god ending on it makes b3pe boring)

[real moss]

cancelling error is fun the one time you do it

[daring pilot]

It ain’t R4 if it don’t got an error

[prisma zodiac]

hm?

[real moss]

R4C1

[prisma zodiac]

i know you can turn it off, but i dont mean that

[coarse berry]

you can turn it off?

[real moss]

of course

[prisma zodiac]

uplinks be like

[coarse berry]

oh they ALL do that?

I thought was exclusively on Reckless

[prisma zodiac]

reckless is a bit different due to how the level works in execution

other uplinks straight up stop all current spawns

it deletes scout waves aswell

[coarse berry]

is that intentional or spaghetti code

[prisma zodiac]

i mean, neither?
its most likely just simplistic code

[nocturne flax]

saw off 30 damage 🙏 ty calle

[velvet flower]

It can't just be another pump shotty, though

[nocturne flax]

it has too

[deft kiln]

35 dmg

[velvet flower]

I do like the idea of make it more damage like 35, even 40. Reduce the ammo to a proper number, even make it reload much faster and reduce the clip size

[half hornet]

reducing clip size would hurt its visual design though

that thing is clearly designed to have 3 shots in it

although i've never seen the holes so... curious to check that one at some point

[ornate crow]

(hel revolver being an 8-shot revo despite having six shots in the cylinder)

[winter wharf]

yeah each round can be fired 1.33 times

[nocturne flax]

thats good, because why on hell would i take saw off with 25 damage anyways

yeah oneshots on smalls are good

but like

hel shotgun seems way hotter

[coarse berry]

it wouldn't be, it would be a "basically only useful for chargers" main

would fill a good niche IMO, anti-charger main

[kind swan]

hel shotgun may seem hotter. but is it a sawed off? no

[atomic escarp]

Can u even imagine that kind of love? No

[coarse berry]

hel shotgun? more like. stinky gun.

imagine having a duckbill choke, this post was sponsored by sawed-off gang

[kind swan]

I'm one of both gangs then

However The 2 cannot compare

[coarse berry]

humbert

[livid heath]

I am begging for some one to make all prisoners out of this

[west crow]

35 dmg

[kind swan]

Black dragon selfie

[keen rampart]

35 dmg

[livid heath]

35dmg

[kind swan]

35 dmg

[tame cloak]

35dmg

[fallow wasp]

35 dmg

[balmy robin]

Nah, boosting the damage to 35 would likely require to reduce its range or add more dispersion. I would rather get 30 but with no other changes (maybe a bit less max ammo ?)

[prisma zodiac]

O.o

[hexed vapor]

It's already inaccurate af

[half hornet]

I would prefer a tighter spread for more reliable results and unique gameplay to HEL shotgun

[balmy robin]

From a sawed-off shotgun it would be hard to justify a tight spread, unfortunately

I do like the weapon, don't get me wrong. I just do not know exactly how to make it shine :)

[prisma zodiac]

the real diff between 30 and 35 dmg is that its less required to hit all pellets vs chargers and giants

[tough badger]

I don't need it to shine I just need it to kill

[prisma zodiac]

if you increase spread thats just o.O a non change then rly

[tough badger]

fr it's already a melee weapon lol

[balmy robin]

I hate relying on pellets hitting

The sawed-off Romero from Hunt is quite fine

[tough badger]

Not everything can be scattergun and just disintegrate anything inside the circle

[balmy robin]

If anything I want the "Main" weapons to be reliable ; and "Secondary" to excell in a specific situation

Unfortunately it is not exactly the case ^^

[half hornet]

Yeah...

Specials are basically your real weapon and so called "mains" are just backs up that are quicker to switch to then reload.

[hexed vapor]

It's also super accurate.

[balmy robin]

Probably a bit too much, but considering you have to reload between each shot I find it balanced enough

[deft kiln]

30—> 35 break points zero just a more consistent charger one shot

[kind swan]

And more damage to teammates

[keen rampart]

35 dmg

[pliant pasture]

35.018

[coarse berry]

GTFO devs concocting the perfect decimal point of damage to make the blurbaflurgen shittza gun oneshot chargers at exactly 27 metres

[daring pilot]

35 dmg

[candid dragon]

game devs reminding me FP numbers are the work of evil

[nocturne flax]

35 damage

[west crow]

140% dmg (FF values)

[deft kiln]

350% FF dmg

[coarse berry]

new negative booster effect

[hearty escarp]

I'm doing R4D2 for the first time and we don't have any ammo when going up against the tank.... but looks like you can sneak past it? Is there a loud extraction that pulls in the tank or something to force you to fight it?

[deft kiln]

YES

did you skip the res rooms?

[hearty escarp]

yeah

we put the cell in for the second resource room

a class 4 mixed alarm would be dicey in the current situation but I guess that's what we gotta do

What is the loud extraction of? chargers?

[deft kiln]

chargers

[nocturne flax]

use cell for surge alarm next time

got a 4 use ammo

and turbine there

[livid heath]

The appropriate response to that is just to do both secondary and overload and just leave to do main so you can fight the tank without any sense of urgency with fogs or shadows chasing

[coarse berry]

yeah don't try to sneak past it's a trap

[nocturne flax]

I mean you can sneak past him

its just that the other 30 homeboys behind are gonna let him know afterwards and he will be really angry about it

[pliant pasture]

It is a trap, unless you are expecting it, then its a face off

[livid heath]

[hollow knot]

Does anyone know what the R6 re-release will look like?

Since it was the 1.0, will it just be unchanged?

or will the alter a few things like with the other rundows

[daring pilot]

No idea, hopefully they up the difficulty thought

[hollow knot]

R6 was easy, but i don't necesarily think they should make it harder. It was a good rundown for new players. Im just hoping R8 is difficult

But thats still a while away i assume, since the devs are somehow taking this long to just release stuff that was already there

[daring pilot]

R1 is our new player rundown now

R6 has gotta have something going for it now

[hollow knot]

I wouldnt recommend R1 to new players. I feel like it doesnt really show what the game has to offer properly and may discourage players from continuing.

R6 is just a better experience for a new player, with checkpoints, more versatile objectives, better visuals, and just a generally more fun challenge

I bought the game in R4, but only really started playing it properly at R6, and i think that was for the best

[daring pilot]

eh most of the checkpoints take away from the new player experience now

[hollow knot]

How so?

R6D1 has waay to many checkpoints sure

[daring pilot]

Unfortunately, it teaches them to constantly throw themselves at something over and over for fear of losing time, instead of returning to the lobby, reassessing their strategies, and trying again with a difficult loadout

[hollow knot]

I see what you mean yea. I get that, especially with R6D1

[daring pilot]

I am of the belief that if you cannot clear A1 and B1 without a checkpoint, you are not ready for C tier

[plush basin]

Not to mention the bugs associated with checkpoints that are gonna frustrate a lot of players

[hollow knot]

cus that shit had a checkpint after every little thing

[daring pilot]

I am not talking ab R6D1

Well I am

But I don’t think most levels should have checkpoints

[ripe void]

ahem me with my friends in R6C1 before the last big scan

[hollow knot]

I am not againts ceckpoint entirely, but i am againts them being frequent for the reason you said

having a checkpoint once every 45-60mins is fine

if its a long level

[daring pilot]

Yes, that one is a prime example. Unfortunately, I think that checkpoint just cause people to throw themselves against the Tscan over and over again, but it’s pretty necessary as well

[ripe void]

yeah that place makes sense

[hollow knot]

Fair enough

[ripe void]

double edged sword

[daring pilot]

R6D1 only really needed one before or after the class VI

[hollow knot]

I think they shouldn't be right before a diffuclt section

[daring pilot]

D2 and D3’s checkpoints were fine

[hollow knot]

yea they were

[daring pilot]

D4 just broke with checkpoints 🫠

[hollow knot]

Ah i never finished D4

[daring pilot]

Not that I ever got there

[hollow knot]

That was the onyly level i missed

[daring pilot]

R6C3 didn’t need it AND it broke the level

[hollow knot]

I think if there are checkpints, they should be placed like 20 mins away from a difficult section, so you dont just throw yourself at it

[daring pilot]

C2, eh, the one checkpoint I remembered is nice for practicing the hybrid error but it absolutely could be removed.

[hollow knot]

Cus then you will ahve to replay that section again, which is annoying

C2 was the mother one right?

[plush basin]

isn't the point of a checkpoint to avoid replaying boring stuff you've already done?

[daring pilot]

I just think checkpoints need some kind of disclaimer, maybe if you reset 3 times it tells you to maybe try to reassess a strategy

[hollow knot]

Yes, ot's to stop you from replaying the entire level when you fail, but it also shouldnt encourage you to run in without a plan

it needs a balance

So like Dakstar said, D2 and D3 did it well

But D1 for example was horrendous

[daring pilot]

IMO point of a checkpoint is to save time on tedious parts. Problem is, checkpoints have to be after a hard part in a level to make sure you’re not going to just die over and over

D3’s checkpoint is the only checkpoint I can solidly defend

[hollow knot]

I dont really remember D3

[daring pilot]

Came after an intense, 1hr+ long sequence

[hollow knot]

what level was that?

[daring pilot]

Was a good midpoint before starting reactor

And it was the intro to fetch reactors in R6

[hollow knot]

Oh yea that one

[daring pilot]

That is the only checkpoint I can defend with 100%, confidence

[hollow knot]

I'm hoping they keep E-tiers checkpoint free

They did in R7

and i hope it continues

since the E-tiers are supposed to be an onslaught of suffering for the player

[half hornet]

I wish they'd put at least one checkpoint on some of the more bullshit ones, ie various C2-C3 PEs and what not

Just one, like on the middle or something

[daring pilot]

Again, R6C3 can’t really use it and R6D3 is chill

[plush basin]

tbh I think that putting checkpoints before difficult content is fine

[half hornet]

Regrinding some 30m secondary because final 5m of the level just break your teeth is so "fun"

[plush basin]

If the player wants to butt their head on it that isn't the games fault

[daring pilot]

Because R6C3 straight up just breaks Overload

[hollow knot]

Oh yea i remember that one

Stupid ass level

[daring pilot]

HEY

[hollow knot]

Did they fix it eventually

[daring pilot]

i like that level ;-;

[hollow knot]

i see

[plush basin]

The use of a checkpoint for me would be to scout the content so you can make a proper attempt on it the next time. If you get blindsided by a new mechanic or something really unexpected it gives you time to have look at it a bit more and figure out a strategy

[daring pilot]

It is, ironically, the same bug that causes R7D1 overload to freak the fuck out

[hollow knot]

I hate the R7D1 overload

it just feels tacked on

[daring pilot]

Only bc it’s bugged lol

And yeah I agree

It feels very tacked on and I am glad I cheesed it before it was patched

[plush basin]

In general I don't like checkpoints to begin with but if I were putting it somewhere it would be before something like the R2E1 end sequence so its not just a "what the fuck was that" and then you must play another hour and a half to get back there

[half hornet]

Lucky me, I got to bypass that one

[hollow knot]

It isnt incorparted well at all. They made a level and realised it dont have an optinal and thought "What's cool? SNATCHER!! Just shove a fuck ton of em in there!"

[daring pilot]

I mean it’s supposed to be 1 every 4 minutes lol

Which is reasonable

[half hornet]

I disagree, I think the overload in concept is fine

[daring pilot]

It feels meh

But it’s fine IN CONCEPT

[half hornet]

It's the 30 FPS and bugs that kill it

[hollow knot]

The cheese was the checkpoint would stop them from spawnign right?

[plush basin]

I feel like that overload was just trying to make that level as creepy as possible. Fog and an enemy that can jumpscare you

[daring pilot]

No

[hollow knot]

What was the cheese?

[daring pilot]

The cheese was beating the entire level and then entering the terminal command LMAO

[plush basin]

you just did it after everything else

[hollow knot]

cus i remember that if you reloaded, they wouldn't spwn anymore

but maybe im wrong

Oh

[daring pilot]

There used to be a bulkhead key in overload

[plush basin]

You could open Ov then do the rest of the level and come back

[daring pilot]

And you could just open it, do level, then come back

[hollow knot]

How did they patch it?

[half hornet]

Locked the door

[daring pilot]

They ripped out the key and locked the door behind the command

[plush basin]

I think the main bulkhead is tied to the terminal command now

[hollow knot]

Ah

[daring pilot]

Kind of

[hollow knot]

Well we cheesed it a differnt way that i assume was 1 time bug

cus they stopped spawnign for me after we died once

So we just did the level

with no snatchers

[daring pilot]

That tracks

[plush basin]

yeah that happens too

[daring pilot]

That’s the R6C3 bug coming back

Scripted waves get deleted on checkpoints for some reason

[hollow knot]

They really just need to fix this game man

its fun but they just dont fix any bugs

[daring pilot]

And the snatchers are scripted because if it was just a 1 every 4 min error, turning off the error in the first wing of main would turn off the snatcher error too

[half hornet]

Fixing bugs in unity, nice one

Phoenix point is exactly like this too

And it's a turn based strategy

You can break AI and force it to skip turns by just loading saves

Lovely engine

[hollow knot]

Theres a place you can get softlocked in one of the B-tiers in R7 if you jump behind some box. You cant jump back out and you're permanently stuck there and need to reload

[half hornet]

Shouldve used source

[hollow knot]

i discovered this bug 1st hand

wasn't fun

good thing it was just a b-tier

[hollow knot]

Truth

Unity just isnt suitable for any large scale games

[hollow knot]

pinnacle of game development

[half hornet]

Amazing for light on eyes indie games, shits itself something fierce in AAA style projects

Granted there's only 2 examples I've been exposed to, so I'm biased

Also I watch markiplier a lot and there's always this... Vibe... To any unity project.

[pallid swallow]

Imagine gtfo 2 on ue5

😳

[deft kiln]

hey

stop

coping

[nocturne flax]

Theres a reason why people use unity and not UE5

[pallid swallow]

I wonder what's the next game they are making

[deft kiln]

honestly just using not 2019 unity

would be a massive thing

[pallid swallow]

Well ue5 still new engine, not much experts

but every unity game is buggy

[nocturne flax]

point is that UE5 its not the be all end all of engines

unity just doesnt show every single feature

they keep it to themselves

[pallid swallow]

imo there's just more people who know unity

[nocturne flax]

not really

unreal came out in 1998

its just that unity had the free to use model way before unreal

if i remember correctly

[pallid swallow]

and more users because of that

[nocturne flax]

but you said known tho, unreal was pretty famous

back when the 3d polygons where sexy

where technology was hype and cool

not anymore

[pallid swallow]

[nocturne flax]

aside from a raspberry pi i dont see that cool technology

everything just wanna be vr

augmented reality really slow and looks like poop (apple new 3000$ scuba visor)

[deft kiln]

honestly the only type of game that would work really well with vr right now is back rooms

and that is mainly because you can use Facey geometry tricks to make a big maze in a small area

[nocturne flax]

yeah im not really talking about games on vr, theyre some cool ones out there i play a little of payday 2 vr it was pretty cool

[deft kiln]

i just cant with the teleporting

[nocturne flax]

but technology wise im just not seen cool stuff

everybody company under the sun are trying to get a piece of that vr pie

[weary spruce]

Hey, I'd argue for Unity being a fine engine for GTFO
Also, from my cursory knowledge, Unity games are way more moddable than Unreal games because how C# works

[nocturne flax]

how the devs use the tools tells more

but yeah UE was mod friendly before

not so much now

[velvet linden]

i think they tripped on the tools and fell

[nocturne flax]

ue 3 and such

[deft kiln]

good way of saying it

[velvet linden]

ty i am shakespeare

[solemn wigeon]

It's how they lost mapper

[west crow]

JishWasha

[deft kiln]

beep

[edgy sonnet]

Man, fuck R2C2. Thought we were in the clear, then like 10 giants spawned and killed us.

Kinda funny, also really heartbreaking.

[coarse berry]

they smell you collecting that last ID

[real moss]

luckily the mission is super short

[edgy sonnet]

Yeah, but it's also really stressful.

[kind swan]

When my friend and I LFG'd for R2C2 and we were joined by FireBlade and Quinoa themselves

FireBlade and Quinoa: Nah we're new

Me: stop the cap

[deft kiln]

they just like watching pubs in their natural environment

[ripe void]

quinoa gives good cooking tips

[fallow wasp]

I would love playing gtfo on a vr treadmill

Bonus points if it stabs me when I get hit

[winter wharf]

yo what is that pizza hut takeaway

[barren patrol]

Yes

This pizzer is fucked up homie

[winter wharf]

surprised I could tell from the crust and how the toppings looked

[barren patrol]

You brit?

[winter wharf]

you know it mate

[barren patrol]

Daaaaamn

I’m from wales

[winter wharf]

ah, Wales is a fairly nice place

last time I was there it was in Llandudno when there was a storm, boy it was windy

[barren patrol]

Fairly? 🤨

[winter wharf]

it has good, it has bad, I think it has the most deprived area of the UK

on the whole I reckon it's a lot lovelier than England

[barren patrol]

Ok ok based

[winter wharf]

wait how the fuck do you get pizza hut at 1am, how long do they stay open?

[barren patrol]

I got this a little while ago

They open till 11

[winter wharf]

ah, makes sense

[barren patrol]

But taco bell is open till 2:45am

You probably gonna be able to track down which city I’m in now lmao

[winter wharf]

I didn't really think taco bell existed outside of like, a few stores in some cities but where I am now has multiple of them

I mean if you say wales and city I can probably guess 4 places and likely be correct

[barren patrol]

For some reason we have a Denny’s too

Go on

Guess

[winter wharf]

ok I did not know there was a Dennys

I am afraid I will say the name of somewhere that is in fact in England, not Wales, and make a fool of myself (but I don't think I'm actually that stupid)

[barren patrol]

Just guessss

You probably won’t

[winter wharf]

Cardiff, Swansea, Newport, Aberystwyth (even though that's a town, I swear I've heard of the university a lot)

[barren patrol]

Theme all places in wales

South Wales in fact

And I’ll tell you

One of them is correct

[winter wharf]

yeah I know I was looking at google maps because I needed some more options

I forgot Newport existed, or I can't remember if I knew about it in the first place

[barren patrol]

To be fair

Not much to do there

[wary olive]

no andrew tate discussion today?

😔

[subtle oriole]

Andrew Tate discussers get put in the HSU

[wary olive]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/585063132553281556/1113965484371628052/caramelgtfo.mp4

[deft kiln]

Just @ Peter

[olive shoal]

@meager sapphire

[velvet linden]

where is peter griffin

[twin dirge]

Hello, Mario

[wide lion]

what is it?

[narrow gulch]

🤫

[nocturne flax]

If hes on ums ill ban his ass

[wide lion]

?

i looking for high point on maps))

[tough atlas]

I'll never get why people use that mod tbh

[wary olive]

wouldnt it be neat if surfaces that had cfoam allowed you to place sentries on them

[prisma zodiac]

imagine if it fell down after 4 minutes

[nocturne flax]

R5 when

[livid heath]

SOON

[wide lion]

okay

[wide lion]

coming soon

[wide lion]

not like people with modes

they noobs)

[livid heath]

enjoyin

[twin dirge]

lmao dude is playing beyond our skill level

[subtle oriole]

When I beat r4e1

[daring pilot]

When scaler R4E1 guide

[west crow]

Professor scalar has not said a single thing in any of these channels

He does not exist

He is a psyop by the gtfo developers to promote user interactivity

[daring pilot]

he said hello in general once

[solemn wigeon]

I swear I've seen him before

Trust me bro

[hidden crater]

I thought scaler was somewhat of a regular

Idk I'm not too active here, but I've seen em a bit

[daring pilot]

He’s a regular on his server

I saw him once here when I mentioned using his videos like audiobooks

[hidden crater]

"Whomstve summoned the almighty one"

[daring pilot]

Yeah basically

[sly lichen]

New rundown tomorrow?

[deft kiln]

no has to be thursday

[fallow wasp]

And it can’t be the first or last week of the month either

[winter wharf]

3rd week of july, calling it now

[coarse berry]

that is literally so far i'd scream

[tacit summit]

@west crow @daring pilot @solemn wigeon @hidden crater Sorry, I've been super busy testing Rundown 8 so I haven't been able to pop in here all that often lately.

R8F1 has really been kicking my butt so I have to dedicate a lot of time to figuring out strategies that'll work for it.

[deft kiln]

leak the BH code

you wont

[tacit summit]

Not even the BH have access to this build I'm on.

[weary spruce]

What's the new objective in R8?
Curious minds must know

[deft kiln]

you have to stealth rooms while Shaffer reads out the entirity of the art of war. you cant turn down the audio

[ornate crow]

10-code accelerated reactor startup but schaeffer and henriksson make the reactor alarm and ambience noises with their mouths

(code divers must stealth spawncap pitch black charger rooms)

[wide lion]

hm,

entrypoint dx?

[kind swan]

Klas corrects him every other sentence thus extending it

[hidden crater]

Why are you apologising, you have exactly zero obligation to constantly be here, take things at the speed you want to take them you goof

[atomic escarp]

Entry point deez

[pallid swallow]

what's deez?

[atomic escarp]

https://tenor.com/view/trollge-uncanny-depressed-sad-trollface-gif-24958563

[wide lion]

narcoman

[calm coral]

is there any roadmap with rough indications of when alt r5 is released?

I’m longing for that r5 tough but fair gameplay

[winter wharf]

don't worry, the gameplay will be easier this time around!

[calm coral]

I mean they nerfed r4 pretty hard

I guess it’s only fair since back in R5 we didn’t have stamina and we had silent bhops✨

I wonder how much easier r5e1 will be

because that level is the only level in the game which scares me

[winter wharf]

hopefully they don't change much and it's around the same

some tile changes might make stuff considerably easier though for alarms (look at first S1 in r4e1)

Mines aren't any stronger than they were in r5, don't think burst sentry will matter that much

[candid dragon]

they absolutely gutted the main sections of r4e1.

[lime magnet]

whats the most difficult mission in which area

[winter wharf]

Hardest mission in the game should be R4E1

[lime magnet]

lets do it

oh..ill have to complete most of r4 yea i just started yesterdsy

[winter wharf]

Yeah it'll probably take a while to unlock, you'll need to complete every other mission in r4 first

[twin dirge]

GTFO is a psy op for straight people to become gay

[coarse berry]

how

[twin dirge]

it forces you to work with other men

[coarse berry]

what if you play with women

[twin dirge]

trans now

[calm coral]

so did you think OG r4 or OG r5 was harder?

e1

[candid dragon]

Without r4e1ex, r5 was harder. The missions felt much longer on average.

[twin dirge]

so it's very specific

[candid dragon]

Many of the pe in r5 had a very low success chance

A la thunderdome, giant kiting, and other weirdness made the rounds

Cell skip

Cell duping

Weird rundown

The most cheese spots, r5 and r6

[nocturne flax]

r5 just had a lower sucess rate because dumbasses kept bringing fucking hel rifle

you cannot change my mind

[coarse berry]

chad rifle

[nocturne flax]

people bringing 4 hel rifle to r5c2 and saying why the tank doesnt die

[coarse berry]

shouldve had a 5th hel rifle

that wouldve fixed it

[winter wharf]

My opinion is r4e1 is overall harder, but r5e1 is more tense/testing

[calm coral]

are we talking main or secondary here

[winter wharf]

Both

[coarse berry]

R4E1 secondary my beloved

[winter wharf]

The OG r4e1 reactor was better

But hey I probably won't be playing it soon because this weather sucks

[coarse berry]

back in my day

[winter wharf]

I started in r5 extension funnily enough

[tough atlas]

Difficulty in R5 ramped up like crazy too imho

Error of big chargers in B1 Main, long charger error in B3 with scouts, fog, cocoons. C1 having gynormous cocoon rooms of doom...

But yes I felt like the main grope was how long some missions felt on PE

And in some cases it also felt a bit inconsequential and just a timepad (B1 Extreme being the usually talked about culprit of this)

[reef talon]

cocoon sucks, change my mind

[winter wharf]

Anything to "stop" kiting :)

[nocturne flax]

Cocoons are not there to stop kiting they're there to stop people from just deleting the rooms

of course room gotta be dangerous

[agile sundial]

Was gonna say, they feel more like stealth enforcement than anything else

[hexed vapor]

Like almost every mechanic in the game...

They are great, but they have to be used well.

[tough atlas]

To elaborate a bit, personally, I think that you either put them in a room that is inconsequential, and therefore it has no effect whatsoever apart from hindering your progress a tiny bit, or you put them in rooms that, if woken up, would be trouble

Second case would just have people stealth them entirely anyway

Which is what happened in all the runs I did of R6D3 or R5C1...

I think the devs realized that too and it's why I struggle to remember R6 and R7 maps with cocoons (R6D3... R7E1...)

[hexed vapor]

They function well in R6D3 and R7E1, tho.

[tough atlas]

Sure, perhaps most of my hate comes to how they were in most R5 levels for no reason other than "it's the new mechanic"

[hexed vapor]

Fair.

[tough atlas]

If it wasn't for the fact that shit could spawn in such a way that you get to absolutely have to kill them, you could just have a fucktillion Moms/Tanks and get the same result tbh

[hexed vapor]

In R5 or R6D3/R7E1?

Because you really can't get the same result w/out respawns.

[tough atlas]

You really cant put so much enemies that people cant brute force them?

[hexed vapor]

You can, and it's completely different from what either level is doing.

R7E1 doesn't function the same if you just add more moms.

[tough atlas]

I see cocoons in those kind of rooms as a "incentive" towards just stealthing the room themselves (for the most part)

With incentive being a reductive word for it

[hexed vapor]

That's not even true.

If you were a Sniper player in R6D3, you should be shooting almost everything past tank zone.

Pulling tank zone was also a viable time saver.

[tough atlas]

A right those rooms had cocoons too it wasn't just tank barracks

[hexed vapor]

And in R7E1, cocoons only prevent you from pre-clearing.

[kind talon]

Oh shit this is where sleepo exists

[hexed vapor]

Which is their purpose.

[tough atlas]

I keep reading this over and over and over again, and I get it's perhaps just that I cleared that map with pugs but I still believe the vast majority just stealthed tank barracks

[hexed vapor]

You can, and should, clear enemies during code 4.

of R7E1 reactor.

You just clear them for different reasons.

Safety, them being in your way, etc.

Moms serve an additional function of forcing you to clear in stealth for most rooms, but respawns are their own thing.

[tough atlas]

With this you mean the cocooned zone with chargers, NOT the one with pmom, right?

[hexed vapor]

No, I mean the zones w/ moms.

If babies are in your way

you should kill them

If c-scouts are in the way or might prevent you from backtracking

you should kill them.

[tough atlas]

That still ain't breaking stealth...

[hexed vapor]

You don't break stealth because of moms.

[tough atlas]

I also killed shit in those sections but I'd still say that I stealthed them

[hexed vapor]

But the respawns, again, mean you can't pre-clear.

But you can learn the route.

[tough atlas]

And you still wouldn't be able to clear the room anyway if it had too much shit to begin with?

pre-clearing it or not

[hexed vapor]

If it had too much shit to begin with, the rooms would necessarily need to be more oppressive, which is just a completely different design.

[tough atlas]

Surely adding more stuff would have a breakpoint where you'd have a wall of moms that you can't NOT wake up, that's granted

[plush basin]

you would still pre-clear any easy win babies to make your path to the code easier though

[hexed vapor]

^

[tough atlas]

And?

[hexed vapor]

And 4-8 moms instead of 2 is just annoying, it's not the same challenge at all.

[tough atlas]

How "easier" would it really get?

[plush basin]

that is something that cocoons prevent

[tough atlas]

They respawn in the same position too

[hexed vapor]

It would require very little stealth skill compared to the current iteration.

[plush basin]

I just felt like you are saying "clear" as in kill everything in the room, and Ray is saying "clear" as in partially clear so you can move through the room more easily

[tough atlas]

Really? If I remember where they are the only other variable is if a scout is in the way

How hard can it be? more time-pressure? sure but in the case of a baby I cant see that getting much harder

[prisma zodiac]

R6D3, R7B3 and R7E1 all use them pretty well yea

[hexed vapor]

If you pre-clear the entire path except for what you cannot kill in stealth, and then you just take that route back and forth, there is no longer any stealth under time pressure at all.

[tough atlas]

R7B3 uses them well? Arent they only in the zone for bulk key and the very first?

[hexed vapor]

Vs. what we have rn where you have to be able to get through zones that are completely untouched, and you at most have information as to enemy positions.

[tough atlas]

I'll agree but I feel like you mean this mostly about rooms other than the one with pmom

[plush basin]

idk if this is the usual strat but whoever went to get the code would kill babies in their way on the way to the code, and someone else would stay in that zone to stop respawns for them on their way back, and even clear some extras while the other guy moved on to make the path even easier. That means that after getting the code if the moms weren't in gross spots you could basically run back through without waking anything up. (Sorry if I am preaching to the choir but a lot of runs I have seen people are just waking stuff up on their way back through)

If you could basically run through on your way to the code as well then yeah, its a lot lot easier

[hexed vapor]

I feel like you're either misreading what I'm saying or you truly don't appreciate the nature of the code 4 stealth section.

Do you agree that if code 4 were the same but had no respawns, it'd be piss easy?

[tough atlas]

Same but no respawn Sure, 100%

Cause you CAN clear it beforehand

What I meant is that if rooms had way more shit in it then it'd still mean that people would stealth through them anyway, killing only what they really must

[prisma zodiac]

Yes

The bulkhead key is kinda meh
But the spawn uses them as a challenge for when you are on your way to extract

[hexed vapor]

Do you agree that there's a meaningful difference in the skill sets involved, and arguably the difficulty of, 4-6 moms vs. just 2 moms but respawns?

[hexed vapor]

I'm telling you right now, if I had the option I would kill every single non-mom in that zone.

[plush basin]

It would make the requirement for safely killing in stealth harder, but if you passed that bar it would make the subsequent code fetch easier imo

[tough atlas]

Not going to lie I think it's one of those "challanges" that only count if you dont see it beforehand (or dont know how cocoons work, really)

[hexed vapor]

The timed sequence would be a matter of prep rather than execution.

[tough atlas]

BUT it's a B level so I guess your point still stands

[prisma zodiac]

The thing is, at that point stealth is near mandatory
6 moms is super stupid to clear if you made a tiny mistake

1 mom, babies and a scout wave or two suck, but can be survived while it hurts you long term

[tough atlas]

It'd be hard to get in a room without waking them up if they were more (reliant on where they spawn tbh), is that what you're asking or am I misinterpreting?

[prisma zodiac]

Nah, it will still aggro ~10 enemies while you are in heavy fog with enemies on your back

[hexed vapor]

No, I'm saying that the way these sections would play and the skills required to pass them are very different.

It's also probably fair to say that they didn't have to use respawn rooms to achieve the current design, although I quite like how it plays out.

But just adding more moms isn't how you'd make an equivalent, it'd have to be like code 3 where you visit a zone you've never explored.

[tough atlas]

Let's put it this way, ray

[tough atlas]

You agree with what ellda's saying here?

[hexed vapor]

Yeah.

[tough atlas]

ok that I can agree with

[solemn wigeon]

Hurh

[hexed vapor]

I don't think it's a proportional shift, either.

Aside from giving mom zone meme tier enemy density, there's kind of a limit on how interesting you can make a forced stealth section that you need to prep ahead of time.

Safe stealth is just not very hard.

[tough atlas]

define safe stealth?

[prisma zodiac]

Honestly my favourite safe stealth was r5d2 key zone and r6d3 tank barracks

[hexed vapor]

Any situation where waking a room has significant consequences, but you're under no time pressure.

I'm just referring back to Ellda's comment, though.

They call it "safe stealth."

[tough atlas]

So a room full of charger scouts like R6D2 you'd call safe stealth? (not being sarcastic, I'm trying to understand your PoV)

[hexed vapor]

I agree, you really don't want to cause moms to wake but you have an infinite amount of time to progress.

[hexed vapor]

Yeah.

It'd be very bad if you messed up

but there's no pressure to get through it quickly

aside from personal sanity.

[solemn wigeon]

What was the lvl with a time limit on secondary after finishing main

Reactor mission i think

[hexed vapor]

R6D3

[solemn wigeon]

That definitely would not be safe stealth right

[tough atlas]

R6D3 provided you didnt do the funny exploit with terminal

[solemn wigeon]

R6d3 intended strats

[hexed vapor]

Would not be, as we're referring to it anyway.

[solemn wigeon]

O

[plush basin]

When I said safe stealth the "safe" was probably just redundant. This definition is fine but I was really just saying it is more difficult to stealth

[tough atlas]

I would call safe stealth a zone where the enemy density is such that I really need to fuck up bad to wake the room up

[hexed vapor]

The substance of the comment...

Was that you're forced to stealth safely, but you have no time pressure.

I don't think that doing so is very challenging most of the time.

Buffed up versions of code 4 zones sounds snooze to me.

[tough atlas]

well snooze after you "clear" the room once

Which is back to the comment I quoted of ellda

I'll agree with that

[plush basin]

It would be very hard to calibrate a stealth room that would pose a sufficient challenge to someone with in depth knowledge of stealth mechanics without making it a ridiculous wall for a lot of the playerbase I think

I guess maybe thats just a "skill issue" moment but idk

I don't think it would be a "good" challenge to pose

The current state is much more interesting

[hexed vapor]

As much as I enjoy a lot of those types of rooms, I don't tend to enjoy it because it's always all that hard.

And also it's overplayed, R7E1 does new shit which I think is better for that level.

[solemn wigeon]

Just introduce a stealth room with enemies that are not reasonable to kill. Keep the ammo low, and the enemy threat much higher than just a room packed full of strikers. Why not giant chargers only

[hexed vapor]

But why?

[plush basin]

Something like that would work I guess but its breaking even further from the theme of the current E1 zone

[solemn wigeon]

If the goal isn't to alert the room, then why bother asking the players to kill them

[hexed vapor]

What's interesting about stripping stealth down to literally just the red/green light aspect and nothing else?

[solemn wigeon]

Or giving them that option

It's red light/green light,
Or red light/green light with the occasional bonk

[plush basin]

This is kind of how I treated R6D3 tank barracks tbh

[hexed vapor]

So are you suggesting removing or keeping the bonk?

Because making everything big chargers removes the bonk.

[plush basin]

In a dark room I'm not gonna even bother killing enemies that I probably could because if I get a wake up it could be very bad (I guess also because the time pressure in R6D3 is less)

[solemn wigeon]

I want to remove the bonk.

[hexed vapor]

Ok, so again, why? You're just outright removing skill expression, plus any amount of fun, from that section of the level.

[plush basin]

sounds like a modding thing, pushing the limits of an element of gameplay for the sake of it

[hexed vapor]

Most fun modded map.

[solemn wigeon]

My main problem with "stealth zones" is that for weaker players all they can do is try and avoid any confrontation, while stronger teams can just waltz through it at a reasonable pace.

My idea of a stealth zone is just stealth. No conflict

[plush basin]

So... not rewarding players for being better? 😅

[solemn wigeon]

Yes

Well

What's the point of including stealth scans if the room is gonna be empty at the end of it anyway

[plush basin]

"Welcome to Quad's communist rundown, where all skill levels are welcome and equal"

[solemn wigeon]

[hexed vapor]

What level do you think we're discussing, btw?

[solemn wigeon]

Idk. Just thought it was a general discussion. I'm guessing the end of r7e1 for getting the code

[hexed vapor]

Well right, so surely the way it's current implemented is better than making the zones unclearable?

Overly unclearable, I should specify.

[plush basin]

I think the question that we are circling around is basically "Can you keep the R7E1 section broadly the same while removing cocoons?"

I think the answer is no, and a subsitute would be worse, but I apologise if I am misrepresenting Latv's argument/question

[solemn wigeon]

The zone leading towards the reactor, or the code zones

[plush basin]

zone leading to reactor

[hexed vapor]

Both, code 4 in specific.

[solemn wigeon]

If you wanted to keep it the same, but remove the cocoons, then you need to give players ample reason not to clear it. Otherwise the zone will just be clear when you get back

[hexed vapor]

Well the argument is that "ample reason not to clear it" is either not really possible or meaningfully changes the section.

Again, I think the best analogue would be if it were a forward zone and you didn't backtrack for it.

[plush basin]

They could have done that but I think that memorising the enemy locations and coming up with a route is a fun challenge

[hexed vapor]

^

[solemn wigeon]

If r7e1 wasn't a reactor stage, I'd argue that the current iteration of the stealth zone would be suitable. But all reactors iirc are subject to absurd ammo counts

[plush basin]

Hence they've actually used cocoons quite well

I'm not sure what you're saying there Quad

[solemn wigeon]

The moms aren't easy to deal with pure melee, but if you shoot it becomes pretty trivial. Since the moms respawn, as long as you have enough ammo it isn't really a problem. And as it happens reactors typically give quite a bit of ammo

[hexed vapor]

Quad, when's the last time you played this level?

I'm super curious.

[solemn wigeon]

Like 4 months ago

Busy with exams and battle vats

Cats

[hexed vapor]

I mean, okay, if you're pulling out enough resources to kill mom every single time...

[plush basin]

It would never occur to me to kill the mums unless I messed up stealth

I don't really get it

Also I feel like ammo is tightish on R7E1

[hexed vapor]

Imo, it's one of the only hard levels with a fairly restrictive ammo budget.

[solemn wigeon]

I don't remember perfectly so feel free to correct my misinformation campaign

[hexed vapor]

Quad, you should just never fight moms unless you're shitposting or speedrunning.

Pulling them intentionally is a wild strat.

And Pmom is just instant death if you don't cheese.

Maybe you can multi-choke one-cycle her w/ no (or extremely few) births, but you need so much total damage.

Especially during the stealth section itself, where it's very unusual to bring all 4 people to the code 4 hunt.

[solemn wigeon]

I will advocate for killing moms for efficiency depending on room spawns. If you need to get back but there's a mom near a door you will be running through then I'm definitely doing that

But if you've got more than enough ammo i will also say fuck it

[hexed vapor]

Okay, but you can just ignore her lol.

[solemn wigeon]

I'd rather not deal with like 40 babies on my ass running on the straight to the reactor

[hexed vapor]

AND ALSO

That there's a mix of strats at all is only possible if R7E1 is designed how it is.

Hard forcing you to play a specific way is kind of bad.

[solemn wigeon]

So the ammo deprivation level should be bad in your eyes because it forces almost pure tool usage

For the first while

[hexed vapor]

?

[solemn wigeon]

R7c3 iirc

[hexed vapor]

No, it's fine, but it has a very different gimmick.

You do actually typically kill everything

and you get a lot of fuel to do so.

[solemn wigeon]

Then surely having 1 completely pacifist stealth zone should also be a doable gimmick

[hexed vapor]

Doable, but not necessarily good or interesting.

Especially not in the context of R7E1.

[solemn wigeon]

I c

<-- has never actually gone for code 4

[hexed vapor]

It's fun, best part of the level.

[winter wharf]

code searchers stay winning

[solemn wigeon]

My friends always get there first

[winter wharf]

something something grumble grumble old r4e1 reactor was better

[solemn wigeon]

While I'm stuck dealing with the tank spawn

[solemn wigeon]

Literally identical

[hexed vapor]

Code 6 is way easier, and you get way more resources to work with (although imo this isn't a big deal until post-reactor).

[winter wharf]

• no thermals

[solemn wigeon]

It's called biotracker smh

[winter wharf]

it doesn't matter as much in 4 man, but in duo as well the enemy spawns in code zones (excl 517 and maybe 515) are nastier in the original

[hexed vapor]

Consistent 2-3 cycle is p trivial now, yeah.

[calm coral]

what would you guys say is the hardest safe stealth section in the game?

any rundown

specify non alt or alt

based on percentage silent vs percentage going loud eventually: for me: R3D1 first apex door although nobody really cares about it. Actually never done it silent tho

in terms of number of wipes

the room would have to be strong enough to actually wipe you which is rare

[prisma zodiac]

has to be something with little room, rough enemies + scouts and possibly bad visbility

[calm coral]

but R7C2 overload probably takes the crown over R4E1 stealth section and R6D4 baby/mother section

for me

original R4E1 that is

alt R4E1 is a joke

the stealth

[prisma zodiac]

R6D4 mother section is chill as hell with no pressure of scouts

charger scouts make it rough tho thats a good one

[calm coral]

true that but the thing that makes it hard is that there’s nothing to do for the other players (which means everyone is going in💀)

[prisma zodiac]

tbh you can actually just yolo in

and grab it

[plush basin]

I would agree with R3D1 here I think