gtfo-speed-running

[vernal glen]

no peter because there is a possibility to do the same thing without those tools

[placid kite]

but that means getting more lucky than lottery 3x

[vernal glen]

you still dont get it

[wind cliff]

18 feels like it might be possible

[placid kite]

which is never happening in this lifetime

[wind cliff]

but yeah very unlikley

[placid kite]

so is it really applicable

[vernal glen]

yes

[placid marten]

nah, thats r3a2 god run with all A spawns

[vernal glen]

because it is how you will measure things rick

[placid kite]

are u a robot?

hello???

where has your humanity gone

[vernal glen]

it allows you tell wheather or not you are wasting time with your setup

if the answer is no, which it can be with foam

but it wasn't in the posted run

[wind cliff]

r1a1 hurt me

[coral pelican]

tools absolutely absolutely make it 1000% safer peter, but the point is if everyone was good enough, then you could get the same result without them

[vernal glen]

than thats fine

[placid kite]

no

[green fox]

No that's wrong

[placid kite]

there is no getting

good enough

to kill 40 enemies

because

THE GUNS IN THIS GAME

[coral pelican]

i'm not saying it's feasible

[placid kite]

HAVE LIMITED FEATS

[green fox]

Because there's no theoretical skill level that high

[candid jackal]

should also pay to mention that tools aren't your only resource
there's ammo and hp which also pays

[placid marten]

and ri, the chance for that wasnt even that low. Most likely in the mid 10 thousands

not that i would get that run, but thats litteraly a part of speedrunning

[wind cliff]

true

[green fox]

It might not even be possible to TAS

[coral pelican]

feasibility and theoretical limits are the point

spoke wrong

[vernal glen]

the enemies in the game can literally get stuck

[coral pelican]

theoretical limits are the point

[green fox]

4 players at 1 hp to kill 40 enemies in fog at 1 hp

[vernal glen]

they can miss randomly

you can find a medipack

[candid jackal]

thanks, forgot to put that onto my messages

bullets are finite

[vernal glen]

you can shoot at least a little

[coral pelican]

at theoretical limits, cfoam wouldn't save you time

[covert cypress]

ok but

[candid jackal]

you can save time elsewhere by saving bullets

[placid kite]

ok but u guys are just proving the point

that these theories

[green fox]

That's only if you have a dumb definition of saving time

[placid kite]

are WORTHLESS

[coral pelican]

in practice it will duh

[green fox]

If it can be used for the fastest possible time

[placid kite]

because they will never happen

[green fox]

It's saving time

[vernal glen]

no they are not worthless

[placid marten]

from your point of view

[vernal glen]

because they are your baseline

its what you compare against

to determine your losses

and then minimize them

[placid marten]

which imo just shows how you view speedrunning

[green fox]

LOL

[covert cypress]

ok but u guys view speedrunning as lets reset 4000 times a day before we get to play the game

[green fox]

I'm sorry it's too funny how D4 instantly jumped in when Rick called theories useless

[covert cypress]

u guys get to watch the drop sequence a lot

[placid kite]

u need to accept that you are human guys

[vernal glen]

not at all

[green fox]

That was a good one

[vernal glen]

i opted against C1 which would have been like 1/100 for realistic spawns

[coral pelican]

peter not say "LOL" challenge IMPOSSIBLE 2 the sequel

[wind cliff]

a good theroy that wont happen is r7e1 outside skip

[vernal glen]

and thats already dropping down to "realistic"

[candid jackal]

so we have Left Twix comparing runs to a theoretical optimal to determine where to save time, and Right Twix comparing runs to their vods to determine where to save time

[green fox]

Jarhead you've made way too many meme references that basically equate to "LOL"

[coral pelican]

you right

[green fox]

It's not more or less amusing

[coral pelican]

you right

[vernal glen]

yeh

[coral pelican]

i'm gonna be the first to admit that i'm dumb and find dumb shit funny

[placid marten]

the only time we did this was r1a1 and we just watched movies

[late linden]

"Explain it to me using sweets" 😄

[vernal glen]

and this hurts

[candid jackal]

like at this point it feels silly to be fighting over the fact that you're looking at different places to find where there's time to be saved

[vernal glen]

because when you run the level

[coral pelican]

rather find dumb shit funny

[vernal glen]

you are aware that you could do it so much faster

if you manage to pull it off somehow

[placid kite]

u guys are actually bots idk what to tell you

[coral pelican]

wait have i even made any today other than poking fun at your LOL?

[placid kite]

beep boop 11:12 estimated time

beep boop 11:13 elapsed time

negative speedrun

[vernal glen]

xd

eva does that tbh

[wind cliff]

XD

[vernal glen]

and i dont rly get it

dont need to get that much into it

[green fox]

Did you check ur chat history to see if what I said was true?

[placid marten]

i can see them looking at 90% of speedrun.com speedruns and going „worthless!“ towards some of the theorycrafting there

[vernal glen]

but i dont think its bad either

[crimson shore]

reading this makes me feel like i have like 9 teenaged sons or something

ngl

[coral pelican]

#gtfo-speed-running message

[green fox]

Then that means there's too many

[crimson shore]

it's like, 5 passive aggressive comments, then 1 line of actual argument to proceed the debate, then 5 more comments

[wind cliff]

LOL

[crimson shore]

PUT YOUR LAUNDRY AWAY

FUCK

[placid marten]

its cuz i like it. And i obviously dont have to go for it

Theorycrafting cant hurt

[vernal glen]

yeh well the thing is

you get to do it while you're not running the game

[coral pelican]

your attacks on me have no power peter because i don't care lmao

[green fox]

It can if you spend a lot of time on unfeasible strategies

[vernal glen]

cuz maybe you're available

and the rest isn't

which is why it becomes valuable

[green fox]

Dude I don't even want to talk to you

[coral pelican]

then stop doing it

but yet

[wind cliff]

i mean

[coral pelican]

here you are

responding to me

[wind cliff]

your in the way

[green fox]

Ok I wont

[coral pelican]

thanks

[placid marten]

I just like knowing what the best theoretical time is aswell

hell, i find the concept of a 4:07 TAS training incredibly interesting

[covert cypress]

so what i understand is

[crimson shore]

https://tenor.com/view/laughing-hysterically-gif-18583403

[covert cypress]

the SPEEDRUNNERS love cloud gaming

[placid marten]

and thats less likely to be pulled of than the rng for r2e1 sub 17

[vernal glen]

we dont run the levels that have strategies that we think we cant pull off

is the more realistic outcome generally

[placid marten]

or are unfun

[wind cliff]

fuck am i part of the SPEEDRUNNERS group

[coral pelican]

maybe now i can just turn this off and go back to watching a movie before game time lmao

[covert cypress]

the TOXIC CLIQUE are more realistic

[wind cliff]

unfo

[placid kite]

can i be honest

[coral pelican]

no

[placid kite]

this rlly plays into personality aspect

down to earth vs vivid dreamers

[wind cliff]

are you going to copy paste me again

[vernal glen]

[placid marten]

when a 1/2000 chance is „a dream“

[placid kite]

i dream of winning the lottery

but i accept it as not realistic

you dream of winning the lottery

and base your life around it

[placid marten]

the difference between winning the lottery and a 1/2000 is bigger than 1/2000 and 100% LOL

but i know, math is hard

[coral pelican]

are you guys just unaware of how speedrunner figure out how to gain time
cause there have been so many times that a strat's been found, been thought to be "tas only", then found to be possible later and stuff
this is just a more exaggerated version of that

[placid marten]

i can teach you if you want

[vernal glen]

it is quite off

but i get your point rick

[green fox]

How many r2e1 runs did you get to 4th surge alarm @D4

[placid kite]

darkevas flame is im bad at math

even though im not talking to him

LOL

[indigo quarry]

@placid kite do you want the stuck jump exploit, you wouldn't have to cfoam anymore

[covert cypress]

toxic clique do things to play around rng and reduce it, whereas u guys would force your way through it because its "technically" faster

[green fox]

A few times?

[wind cliff]

based

[green fox]

How many more to 2000

[wind cliff]

we are finally making it to the end game

[covert cypress]

i can see why u guys play the a and b tiers

[green fox]

Can you even do that before gtfo shuts down?

[languid narwhal]

rook d1 to @oak crescent

[candid jackal]

I'm trying to explain the difference between the mindsets on display here but FUCK ME IT'S ALL ABOUT BEING FASTER

[covert cypress]

pachi u know those like

[crimson shore]

😉

[covert cypress]

old preachers

[placid marten]

yea thats how trying to go the fastest works

Wesley said this very very early on

you can be as good as you want. Meh to bad rng will lose time

[coral pelican]

isn't that what speedrunning is about

[covert cypress]

ok but u can do things to play around rng

[placid marten]

like 40+?

[vernal glen]

i rly dont mean to insult them with it but they do not think like speedrunners

[covert cypress]

and on E tiers thats probably more important than an A tier

[wind cliff]

it is true

[candid jackal]

this insinuates that there is another rook either on d5, d6, d7, d8, or on a4, b4, c4, e4, f4, g4, or h4

[languid narwhal]

I've played around rng

it's very unlucky i don't get it

but I can understadn the frustration with speedrunning

[covert cypress]

with an A tier its just like wow i can get good key spawn!

[placid marten]

Beth with the 2:33 on r1a1 even tho its E hsu

Show me the skill 🙏

[green fox]

Ok

[covert cypress]

d4 please read

[green fox]

40+ attempts in minimum 100 hours for sure

[placid kite]

if we are not speedrunners

you guys are not human

[vernal glen]

thank you beep

[green fox]

Only 5 k more hours

[coral pelican]

"they don't think like speedrunners" -> "they're not speedrunners"
cool strawman

[green fox]

For that sweet 1/2000 run

[candid jackal]

kinda? I've walked past preachers in the city square and had a leaflet about the memorial of jesus go in my letterbox

[covert cypress]

well ur like one of them

[candid jackal]

oh piss off

[placid marten]

@covert cypress

1. seriously?
2. i typed that while 10 messages popped, didnt see

point stands for r3d1 too

have fun beating r3d1 time with bad scans

[vernal glen]

i agree with this statement

[languid narwhal]

are you trying to make haikus

what's with the spacing

[covert cypress]

sure u cant deal with ALL rng but like

[wind cliff]

tbh by the time you get the rng then you actually need to perform

and with all that time reseting

it is sometimes a hard ask

[green fox]

You would have to pay me to play r3d1 again

[indigo quarry]

there wouldnt be rng if you would all just do seeded runs

[placid marten]

What? LOL
i think we spend like 20 hours at most on r2e1 xD

we didnt even go over 40 for r3b2 which ive spend the most on

[wind cliff]

how much i will play with you

[placid kite]

ok darkeva

[covert cypress]

theres a lot u can do to play around rng

[placid kite]

you are literally lying

[green fox]

Double min wage and hourly

[candid jackal]

if only someone made a category that was the 10 best seeds for a level to be run on, and you randomly got one of the 10 seeds

[vernal glen]

yeh i dont like the many resets for this

[versed echo]

Double minimum wage of what state

[placid kite]

you played 4 times a week for 5-6h for 3 weeks

[versed echo]

(If US)

[vernal glen]

but we play quite a few levels where we still play more than half the time for sure

[placid kite]

you even streamed a 8h session on a weekday

LOL

[teal fulcrum]

Y'all stoopid my word its gospel 🙏

Amen

[green fox]

The state of quebec

[late linden]

I think it ain't possible cause most of this rng arguments would evaporate when you have everyone run the very same map

[wind cliff]

i can play 3 r3d1s with peter for 30 dollars 😍

[languid narwhal]

speedrunning is hard

i can not get a good time

time to stream a level (pronounce level with one syllable please)

[versed echo]

What is minimum wage there

[crimson shore]

hi

[placid marten]

you were sitting there with stopwatches? XD

we had less than 10 sessions

none of those but 1 went over 3 hours, most were ~2 or less

[vernal glen]

i only joined the actual reset grind for R1A1 cuz i was asked and obviously had nothing better to do

[green fox]

No idea it was a joke to see if shadowgx is here

He's our sponsor

[languid narwhal]

dark eva that is too many syllables for haikus

[versed echo]

Lol

[placid kite]

notice how you played in joemie server

[placid marten]

You overestimate how much time we spend lol

[wind cliff]

okay can you post the speed runners cringe quote again

[green fox]

You played for 7 hours on stream on a weekday

[placid marten]

I dont even do 8h streams LOL

[green fox]

We can guess

I'll low ball

[late linden]

Explain to me how that's a strawman?

[wind cliff]

badger = spy we know 0.0

[green fox]

50 hours of r2e1 attempts for 40 times to surge 4

[languid narwhal]

isn't dark eva wokring on his doctorate

dr. dark eva

[green fox]

2000+ hours away still

25 hours

1k hours away

[coral pelican]

well you see, a strawman is where you take one argument, manipulate it to make it sound like a different argument, and then point out how that new made up different argument is stupid

[green fox]

1/2000 is not real rng you can rely on for r2e1

[coral pelican]

oh god calle is here

[late linden]

"You dont think like a mechanic" implies that who I'm talking to isn't a mechanic? At least that I don't think he is?

[green fox]

If we can't talk about Speedrun in Speedrun chat theres a problem

[coral pelican]

not how that works at all, no

[covert cypress]

toxic clique have literally done speedruns so i would say that makes them speedrunner

[crimson shore]

do u guys want to come over to my sleepover 👉 👈 my mom ordered pizza and we will be playing minecraft LAN and we can choose happiness and maybe play.... spin the bottle 🤯 🤯 !!! just please don't go into the basement or my dad WILL belt me

[versed echo]

Hey woah

[covert cypress]

they just dont have their head in the clouds like the other speedrunning group

[versed echo]

No one is calling them not speedrunners right

[coral pelican]

exactly

[versed echo]

At least from what I see

[coral pelican]

you guys are making up an argument and then pointout out how that made up argument is dumb lol

[wind cliff]

calle can you post already

[coral pelican]

saying someone doesn't think like something doesn't mean they aren't that thing

[covert cypress]

its different mindsets

[teal fulcrum]

wish i had it

[coral pelican]

i'm not making a stance towards the comment wesley made, i'm making a stance towards them making a strawman towards it

[green fox]

No you only imply as many things as possible without saying it outright

That way you can backpedal later

[late linden]

Dont get me wrong I'm just discussing this generally and not in the detail at hand

[coral pelican]

have you ever heard the term thinking outside the box

[vernal glen]

jarhead i hope this helps you better understand where we come from when interacting with peter

[candid jackal]

I think really the only difference is one side is using a theoretical best as a comparison, and the other isn't (because you shouldn't need a theoretical best to see where you've lost time, a good noggin will be enough)

[coral pelican]

oh i understood your interactions with peter in the first place wesley, i just would prefer aggression to halt

[green fox]

Well obviously that's why so many people agree with you wesley

[wind cliff]

o a dev is here to

[crimson shore]

KEEP FIGHTING WE ARE GATHERING THE ATTENTION OF LARGER BEINGS

[late linden]

This I dont agree with

[placid marten]

the first is how most if not all speedrun games work

The 2nd is smth we do aswell

[wind cliff]

end game is here

[crimson shore]

THE WAR GODS HEARD US CRY

[vernal glen]

im literally an asshole why do they agree with me

[wind cliff]

the gtfo ban wave

[coral pelican]

i shall repeat my question, have you ever heard the phrase "thinking outside the box"

[placid marten]

can you queue an epic orchestra?

[crimson shore]

i can't focus

[versed echo]

Is this why scatter was part of the chaotic part of the chart?

[crimson shore]

im gonna

[green fox]

They dont

[versed echo]

💀💀💀

[covert cypress]

theoretical to a point is ok to think abt

[crimson shore]

huhNGNNGNG\

[late linden]

Yes and tell me how that has anything to do?

[vernal glen]

now it makes sense

[crimson shore]

WHERE IS THE SHEEP SACRIFICE

THE GODS DEMAND ONE

SALT THE EARTH

[vernal glen]

we rly only think about it to a point

[placid kite]

no

[vernal glen]

like ignoring enemies

[crimson shore]

BURN THE TREES

[covert cypress]

but these guys are like GUYS I THINK FOAM IS BAD CAUSE THEORETICALLY I CAN GET THE SAME TIME WITHOUT

[placid kite]

u just based an entire argument

[vernal glen]

is a very simple thing to do

[placid kite]

around it

thats not thinking about it a ok point

[covert cypress]

ok but wesley

[vernal glen]

like you can imagine a run without the enemies

very easily

[coral pelican]

the box is thinking like something
thinking outside is means you're not thinking like that thing, but you can still be that thing

[covert cypress]

are u gonna ignore 40 enemies

[green fox]

Again

[covert cypress]

no

u have to kill them

[placid kite]

guys i get it

[candid jackal]

yeah I agree that you should be careful about where you draw the theoretical best, go too far and it becomes disingenuous

[vernal glen]

likely not but i can imagine it very quickly

[placid kite]

wesley wants to play without enemies

[vernal glen]

so i can make a comparison instantly

[wind cliff]

it sometimes helps to think about the level with no sleepers but then you do need to wake up

[crimson shore]

wait i'm on a chart?

[late linden]

I'm pretty sure it means thinking outside of perceived boundaries?

[green fox]

Wesley imagines very fast

[crimson shore]

wheres my royalties

[late linden]

And not what you're describing?

[covert cypress]

i dont think peaceful mode is a thing in gtfo

[vernal glen]

we get runs without enemies

on easier levels

[coral pelican]

firstly it's a metaphor
secondly it still applies

[vernal glen]

its even realistic

[wind cliff]

door bug 🤓

[vernal glen]

in some of our runs

[placid kite]

ok but u want this on every level

[crimson shore]

creeper scout confirmed they added peaceful mode from minecrap?!?!??!?!!?

[placid kite]

and base your ideas on that concept for every map

[vernal glen]

we imagine it on every level

[placid kite]

which doesnt work

[vernal glen]

so that we can try and choose our setup in a way

[placid marten]

i mean thats why i (and im an extreme here for gtfo speedrunning, not for general speedrunning tho) theorycraft the perfect time, the optimal (very lucky) time and the good time that we can improve to with simple changes

[vernal glen]

that it loses no time compared to it

or very minimal

[versed echo]

Team is it time for me to go back to my old doorbugging speedruns

🗿

[wind cliff]

gtfo peacful mode

[crimson shore]

does doorbug stop my dad from coming out and belting me?

[placid marten]

r4d2pe duo with door bug and blackhops? Lets go

[late linden]

I feel like it's a lot of mental gymnastic compared to the process I described, but let's agree to talk this privately if needed so we dont clog this chat with stuff that has nothing to do with it

[coral pelican]

i'm down

[green fox]

Bringing up door bug here

[candid jackal]

god I should speedrun solo alt r4e1 lawless%

[green fox]

The unholy offspring of one interaction with wesley me and robert

[vernal glen]

do NOT post the twitch screenshot

[wind cliff]

oh here we go

[candid jackal]

peter you'd also do solo r4e1 speedruns right

[crimson shore]

bad news simon and calle stopped typing this just escalated to threat level COMMUNITY POST

[wind cliff]

r4e1 solo talks again

[crimson shore]

we get the bulkhead key from community post and we rush twitch livestream

stonks

prisoner efficiency gtfo speedrunning channel

[wind cliff]

rule 14 no speed runner drama

[placid marten]

did calle actually appear or was that just a mirage?

[versed echo]

Peter speed R4C2 with me

[crimson shore]

bruh's like naruto we're hitting his after image

too quick

[vernal glen]

we leveld up to doc

[wind cliff]

Gtfo ban wave coming soon

[versed echo]

No logs no doorbug

[green fox]

Real question is who cares enough to report this to mod mail

[wind cliff]

TOXIC CLIQUE and SPEEDRUNNERS are gone

[wind cliff]

true

[vernal glen]

peter do you think R4E1 is doable now that the scans dont take a shit ton longer solo

how quickly can you kill tanks solo

[crimson shore]

depends if it has low self esteem

[vernal glen]

is this a realistic strat or a theoretical strat

[wind cliff]

honeslty the only issue with the solo r4e1 is the moms and infection fog

[coral pelican]

is calle not gonna scold us anymore :(

[crimson shore]

if we attack its upbringing, its home life, and belittle insecurities, i've seen tanks throw themselves into the pit willingly to make it stop

[wind cliff]

na we are getting a community post

[crimson shore]

new r7e1 speedrun strat

[vernal glen]

technically you could get the lucky tank in the wall

but at this point it would be theoretical

worth hunting

[crimson shore]

if we put a banana peel on the floor and the tank slips and falls backwards, popping all the tumors

does it die instantl

y

im just saying brothers

have all the speedrun ideas been explored truly

[versed echo]

@wind cliff you did put scatter in the chaotic side, right?

I’m pretty sure you did

[wind cliff]

scatter wasnt on it

[versed echo]

Rip

[crimson shore]

the voices in my head are stornger than yours

[vernal glen]

discrimination

[wind cliff]

but he would have been chaotic neutral

[crimson shore]

mix and swirl mix and swirl mix and swirl

[round kite]

what the fuck

[crimson shore]

avert your gaze, humanity was not prepared to look at such perfection just yet. our eyes have not evolved to the point of full appreciation

[round kite]

@wind cliff can you sum up what happened, i play 3 games of rl and i miss lore :( plz dont make me read

[wind cliff]

i will in dms i dont want to get sniped by mods

[round kite]

kk

you only get 10 words tho

[coral pelican]

did you go into 15 minute OT on every single one tf

[round kite]

yes

[coral pelican]

damn fair enough

[placid marten]

Did ya win?

[versed echo]

Are ya winning son?

https://tenor.com/view/onepixel-oop-oopdao-gif-24467949

[glass cradle]

🗿

[round kite]

yuh, won series 3-2

if we won 4-1 we would have been 1st seen and division champs :(

[placid marten]

ayo nice

:c ayo not so nice

[wind cliff]

The logs arc was better ngl

[round kite]

Facts

[sullen musk]

👀

[glass cradle]

uh oh

[crimson shore]

wanna play minecraft

[wind cliff]

i mean we still want to make calle speedrun

1 level

[crimson shore]

but we were all gonna have a minecraft lan party sleepover first

?

you're griefing me

god it's like you didn't even care about our 450 message speed run drama before (btw do mods and stuff even read that?)

[vernal glen]

can we have a day 2

.

.

is it morally correct to make fun of obvious mistakes in someones run if they present themselves like this

[ripe scaffold]

What level do you think he’d want to run, or would be best

[placid marten]

we had a discussion about this back when r7/1/2 were out

Preferably smth

• low rng (so nothing like r1b1, r3a2, r7d2)
• not too hard (so no r2e1, r7b3)
• not too boring/simple (r1a1, r1c1)

Back then we were thinking of r1d1, r2b1 and r7a1 (in reverse order)

rn i think r1d1 is still great
R3B2 is also pretty fun and more unique
And well, R3A1/R7A1 and R4A3 are good intro runs

[ripe scaffold]

Oooh I like the sound of R4A3 main

[placid marten]

its simple, fast, low rng for actually running it, has a split up and mostly permanent action. Tho extract can be a bit boring since sentries clear a lot

its imo the best intro to speedrunning this game has

[ionic halo]

wasn't the issue back in R4 that at some point R4A3 main became scan RNG?

also R1B1 my beloved

[bleak crane]

Good intro speedrun isn't necessarily a good speedrun generally.

[ionic halo]

I guess it also depends whether you're gunning for adrenaline or for a WR

[bleak crane]

And tbh you could probably rework most levels into an intro speedrun simply by running terrible seeds.

[placid marten]

the thing with r4a3 is that it has low key rng and low scan rng (there is some time loss, but it isnt quite r2b1 scans)

and yes, a good intro to speedrunning doesnt mean "good to WR"

[placid marten]

kinda disagree since the pacing gets lost completely in some levels with bad seeds. In R4A3 theres a 50% chance for any good key. And even the "bad" ones are only slowish

if you get an awful key in say R7A1 that will completely throw off the strats for the actual run (making them stand around a ton)

And R7A1 is on the better side of that still

[ripe scaffold]

Yeah I’d rather build speedrunning skills in a level that’s leas reliant on rng so i can focus on actually speedrunning

[placid marten]

^

[ionic halo]

Training

[placid marten]

its honestly a rly good way to learn how to GO fast in gtfo

[ionic halo]

scarcely any RNG

it's almost completely optimised

[placid marten]

the biggest rng in that level is enemy orientation

[ionic halo]

so it's you against the human limit

[ripe scaffold]

I did actually speedrun training at one point

[placid marten]

why no upload

[languid narwhal]

Wouldn't an element of being a good speedrunner be the knowledge and ability to handle rng

If you're practicing how to play a level with little to no rng you're only going to get better at doing that

Running r1a1 isn't going to help you run r7e1

Or any other level for that fact

[placid marten]

tell me the knowledge and way to handle a key spawning 50 sec of pathing worse

[ripe scaffold]

I want to build very basic speedrunning skills

[placid marten]

and why should it?
you know we run A1 to RUN A1 LOL

[ripe scaffold]

Then I can focus on rng handling

[languid narwhal]

You can develop basic speedrunning skills on more complex levels

[placid marten]

eh

[ripe scaffold]

You can, sure

[languid narwhal]

With rng involved

[placid marten]

you will play a lot slower in those complex levels

[ripe scaffold]

Doesn’t mean it’s efficient

[languid narwhal]

So?

You'd be learning how to play them

[placid marten]

SPEEDrunning

[languid narwhal]

You can get faster eventually

Speed comes after the developed skill

[placid marten]

beep saying you arent allowed to speedrun until you get good at the game?

[languid narwhal]

What

[placid marten]

or whats your point there

[languid narwhal]

I'm saying it's better to play more complex levels, in terms of speedrunning, if you're looking to improve your overall skill

[placid marten]

to go fast you dont need to do R4E1 to know how to handle rough situations, you need to know how to go fast and then get good at handling rough situations if its called for in a level

well yeah, improving your overall skill obviously is done by playing more complex levels
100% agree

but you improve specific skills in speedrunning sometimes unrelated to actually playing well

[languid narwhal]

You don't need to play r4e1 to massively improve your skill, but the other extreme of only playing levels with little to no rng isn't going to directly help you either

[placid marten]

you would not recommend running walking through giants with a cell

in anyway

1 is improving at speedrunning
1 is improving at the game

[ripe scaffold]

Inb4 R5B4 is the speedrunning practice level

[placid marten]

they somewhat overlap obviously

[ripe scaffold]

:3

[placid marten]

but hell do they not quite often

[languid narwhal]

Just emphasizing the potential of stagnation

If you're actively looking to improve you have to challenge yourself

Fundamentals are nice

But you can practice fundamentals while learning more complex methods

[placid marten]

not saying i disagree
but this is such an obvious saying

its like saying the floor is made of floor

[ripe scaffold]

Yes, I’m not saying I’d run A3 forever

[placid marten]

i dont think you or me ever made that point Dak

[ripe scaffold]

I’d just want to get good at going fast in a simpler level

[languid narwhal]

If that's your goal then, okay

[vernal glen]

we rly dont spend much time

[placid marten]

by knowing how to go quick in a situation where its 100% allowed to you learn how to move FOR speed

by playing complex levels you learn how to survive and succeed, but not rly be quick

[vernal glen]

in the lobby

stop being hung up on the resets xd

theres just some exceptions

they aren't common

[languid narwhal]

Are you talking to me?

[vernal glen]

yeh

if you're new to speedrunning

[languid narwhal]

When was rhat my point

[vernal glen]

it wont matter if you take 1m before the real run starts

[placid marten]

huh, did beep make a point about resetting?

[vernal glen]

the few resets

[languid narwhal]

I didn't lol

What is this projection

[vernal glen]

you said play with the worse rng

[languid narwhal]

What?

[placid marten]

that was ray no?

[vernal glen]

to learn to work around it

[placid marten]

ahhh

wesley answered one of your first comments beep

[languid narwhal]

I said playing more complex levels can help you develop important skills

[vernal glen]

yes

[bleak crane]

You can, but it may not be the best method.

[vernal glen]

you can learn

with the good rng

[bleak crane]

Especially when most RNG is reset-heavy.

[ripe scaffold]

This

[placid marten]

and i said, for generaly gameplay
not rly for speedrunning

being better obviously is a greater base for speedrunning

[vernal glen]

if it costs almost nothing anyway

to just get a good rng run

[bleak crane]

I can learn to fight tanks in any level that has them...

[placid marten]

And even then youd probably play around them differently in speedruns

[languid narwhal]

Being reset heavy isn't necessarily a bad thing

[bleak crane]

but R4E1 is by far the single best place to do so, because you fight lots of them in sequence and you can go out of your way to encounter them repeatedly.

[vernal glen]

it just doesn't matter

seems to matter more that you aim for what you'd actually aim for

because as eva tried to mention some strats you want to use

become impossible

if you don't have the expected rng

[ripe scaffold]

Oh yeah I guess R4E1 would be better than R6D3

[bleak crane]

Maybe just a matter of preference, but I generally don't enjoy speedrunning that much because there's not a lot of accessible ways to learn those skill sets.

[languid narwhal]

Ultimately it depends on your goals

[bleak crane]

And it's something I do almost 0 practice for in general.

[placid marten]

which actually brings us back to a point made yesterday

If you just try to improve your time of random runs without considering the good/best rng, then you wont make strats that will safe you good time. And if you want to use those strats in a run with bad rng they are just stupid to do

[placid marten]

no more sun-ray runs?

[bleak crane]

I'll still run, but I don't seek it out.

Nor do I think I bring that much to the table.

[languid narwhal]

Rayalot always has a slot in my lobby

[vernal glen]

well what is your goal

[placid marten]

Well, id guess most of us play the game cuz we like it. So getting better is a thing that is probably somewhat on mind

but if you speedrun and want to get good at speedrunning, getting better isnt rly on your mind as much immediatly

[placid marten]

fun

[languid narwhal]

I was trying to assist dak with his goal

But I seemed to misunderstand what he was reaching for

[bleak crane]

Thx, bb.

[ripe scaffold]

I literally said what levels would be good for Calle to speedrun and suggested R4A3, then said maybe I’d try it

[placid marten]

id recommend Training and R4A3 to someone who wants to try out and get better at going quick for speedruns

obviously stuff we talked about before (R1D1 specifically) also work well

if you go complex or rng heavy from the start you wont learn speedrunning

[vernal glen]

try it NOW

[languid narwhal]

Must have been the part I missed then

[placid marten]

who suggested what huh

[ripe scaffold]

Didn’t I say R4A3

[languid narwhal]

I just disagree with this factoid

[placid marten]

i said it and you liked the sound of that

[languid narwhal]

But you aren't incorrect

[ripe scaffold]

Ah lol

Yeah ig im just high

[placid marten]

what would you say are complex missions, so i can make my point a bit more clear?

dw Dak

[languid narwhal]

I get your point I just disagree with it

Nothing personal

[placid marten]

I feel this all goes pretty well of what Dak just brough up

[vernal glen]

you can split up speedrunning in a bunch of ways

[placid marten]

someone comes up and wants to try and get better at speedrunning (hasnt rly run before, but knows the game and knows how the strats for speedruns work)

which lvl would you recommend?

[vernal glen]

planning out a level and finding what the best path is

is surely a part of it

[placid marten]

yea

[vernal glen]

but you will often be able to say that this doesn't matter

[bleak crane]

Tbf this is different from the factoid.

[vernal glen]

cuz you can watch someone else

and do what they did but better

[bleak crane]

You can absolutely learn speedrunning on levels that are bad for learning, they're just also bad environments for learning.

[vernal glen]

its just like TRACKMANIA wr for real

[placid marten]

but what would you recommend for them

you can obviously learn it on all levels

[vernal glen]

like do you want to learn how to figure out good strats

or do you want to learn how to actually use those kind of strats

[bleak crane]

But your factoid was that you won't learn speedrunning on levels that are bad for learning.

Which is what Beep was calling out.

[placid marten]

what wesleys mentioning right now is often actually split into groups for other speed games where some people legit just figure out strats but wont use them in runs

[placid marten]

did i ever say wont?

o.O

[bleak crane]

if you go complex or rng heavy from the start you wont learn speedrunning

[vernal glen]

yeh

like R7E1 skip

[versed echo]

Team

Does anyone wanna speedrun rn

[vernal glen]

i do think its possible

if ppl are cracked

[placid marten]

why are you even awake

[versed echo]

Uh...

I wanna fix my sleep schedule

[bleak crane]

For pretty complicated speed games, lots of routing work, glitch hunting, set-up finding, etc., is very rarely done by the runner.

i.e. OoT

[placid marten]

mb on that one lol
when i typed towards Dak i seemed to not have kept on typing on my prior thoughtprocess

[vernal glen]

yeh but with gtfo being so small

and us running a lot of the levels

we do it ourselves most the time

so for us its a big part of speedrunning

[languid narwhal]

I'll discover new strategies for you 🙂

[placid marten]

find a workable/worth out of bounds strat beep

[vernal glen]

pls send them in dms so robert cant see them

[placid marten]

and i will send you a bread or smth

[languid narwhal]

Yes sir 🫡

[placid marten]

also finding workable setups for "tricks" is obviously smth that goes into routing/planning

i think the thing thats the closest currently to that in gtfo is the r3a1 wall glitch neonate

[placid marten]

anyway, @ripe scaffold why no upload

[indigo quarry]

why doesnt robert get to see them

[wind cliff]

Dw I am a spy everyone gets to know everything

[indigo quarry]

can you tell me how to beat a3 reactor then

[placid marten]

press w and m1

[indigo quarry]

that doesnt work stop spreading misinformation

[wind cliff]

Start a reactor spreed sheet and record every possible code then to get the best r3a1 just get lucky 6 times in a row and guess

[indigo quarry]

will do tyty

[wind cliff]

I already have one incomplete code sequence for you

—- —- —- —- —- game

[indigo quarry]

is it milk milk milk milk milk game?

[wind cliff]

Could be

I forget the first 5

[round kite]

We will never know 😭

Also amazing reference/throwback

[stray dove]

Just ignore them

[crimson shore]

mfw it's time for the biweekly speedrunner drama

"good morning krusty krew!!"

[untold laurel]

ur rly boring

[crimson shore]

well that's not very nice

i have no allegiances i just want to watch a 400 message brawl again

[crimson shore]

wanna be friends? <3

[covert cypress]

u talk a lot

[crimson shore]

yeah

[untold laurel]

emoticon

[placid kite]

emoticon

[crimson shore]

🫃

[crimson shore]

iunno speedrunners are always fighting

over silly stuff

[bleak crane]

Tight competition.

[wind cliff]

it is

so excited for arc 3

[covert cypress]

honestly idk where the competition really is

one team speedruns e tiers the other speedruns a and b

the only other team that speedruns e tiers are just a set of pubs

[vernal glen]

the other kites R4E1 reactor

WITH MODS

[covert cypress]

It’s true

I did indeed hammer the r4e1 reactor

How’s your shooter cap r4e1 solo Wesley

I’m waiting so patiently

[vernal glen]

gerz its crazy that they made fun of scalers voice but then they play with you LOL

[covert cypress]

wow

What’s wrong with my voice

it’s not my fault I’m British 😭

[placid marten]

Bo‘oh‘o wa‘er

[covert cypress]

Ok I don’t even sound like that

I’m one of the good ones

[placid marten]

can you say that tho

[covert cypress]

I could

But I don’t

[placid marten]

the true test whether you are british

[covert cypress]

I’ve never said it but I’m sure I could

[placid marten]

[placid marten]

also

one team speedruns all the levels* (apart from R2D2, fuck that one)

[covert cypress]

aren’t you guys still doing like

Idk what you’re even on now I don’t pay enough attention

R4a3?

[placid marten]

huh
Na we were doing R4A2pe to get it below 10

We also did D2 just before that

[covert cypress]

a2 a3 basically the same thing

I played both twice

I hope you found the 4 use tool on a2

[grave path]

You're one of the good ones innit?

Did I do it right

[covert cypress]

Ofc

Yup

Basically British already

[grave path]

🇬🇧

[placid marten]

its a given

its always there, hidden in plainsight

[covert cypress]

my number 1 fan would be so proud

If only he had an alt in this server spying

[vernal glen]

surely its the brittish accent that i meant

[covert cypress]

Well I’m listening :)

enlighten me

[vernal glen]

emoticon

[dull forum]

surely you shouldnt make any rude comments about peoples voices as a mic less player?

[vernal glen]

thats not what i did no

[placid marten]

its a reference to what other people said to what was referenced above m

[vernal glen]

you kinda have to read the rest of the message too

[dull forum]

all i am seeing is a comment about beths voice out of nowhere

[placid marten]

the comment compares it to scalers voice

[dull forum]

wheres the context

[vernal glen]

the context is that he plays with a group that calls people pedophiles based on their voices

[dull forum]

who?

[placid marten]

toxic clique towards scaler?

[dull forum]

no i meant

that 'he'

that wesley just refered to

[placid marten]

wesley meant beth…

[dull forum]

i see

i see that as little bit of a

point proven

[candid jackal]

Huh

[placid marten]

i also accidentally call nymn as a she by reflex/accident, even tho they arent

[crimson shore]

silence, germany. tposes authoritively
i'm better than you

jk pls no hurt

[placid marten]

💀

[crimson shore]

look friends

we can go back and forth all we want

but we have a common enemy to unite us

[covert cypress]

Well that didn’t take long LOL

[crimson shore]

the tank-charger-scout-flyer

[vernal glen]

she*

[crimson shore]

and players who don't turn off weapon sway, making it so their flashlight points down while sprinting

[vernal glen]

ok

[crimson shore]

those people are sociopaths

[covert cypress]

u talk a lot

[crimson shore]

i like talking

wanna talk with me?

[coral pelican]

everyone in this channel does

[placid marten]

You type tho

[vernal glen]

you should play trackmania

[crimson shore]

wuzzat

also technically

you have 3k message results, i only have 800. you talk more than me

🤓

[dull forum]

doesnt necessarily compare given that he has time to check his message before sending but sure. either way I dont see why any comment should be made against beths voice when the comment about scalers came from a different individual.

[vernal glen]

you're literally just hurt as a trans thing

while this isn't about that

[crimson shore]

guys PLEASE KEEP THIS CHANNEL STRICTLY TO SPEEDRUNNING!!!!!!

I WILL CALL THE MODERATORS:TM:!

[placid marten]

1. Ok 100% malicious "he" there. Is that the point? Im not wesley so i obviously cant know how that came. But god, its way more likely it was a quick type error than that lol
2. beths voice is "soft" like scalers. Toxic clique said scalers voice is that of a pedo. That was the whole connection

[dull forum]

i cant fathom that noone sees that this could be perceived as very hurtful for beth

no matter what the intended pun was

but that must be

a cis thing

[vernal glen]

if beth is that easily hurt i would greatly recommend a different group to play with

[dull forum]

trust me id love nothing more for her than to ditch those losers

[placid marten]

the voice thing or the he/she thing

the voice thing litteraly was toward the toxic clique being ass and beth playing with them

[dull forum]

but she doesnt need shit piled on top

[placid marten]

that i can understand

id argue overall that its just text chat being absolutely garbage at conveying actual meaning

[vernal glen]

not true tho lea

you're just not willing to see it

beth joined in on toxicity

[dull forum]

point me towards an example and ill gladly look at it and see for myself

[vernal glen]

the 3 messages here

if i posted that i deff would expect to get some shit back

LOL

[covert cypress]

ofc

It was good tho I couldn’t resist LMAO

[dull forum]

so based on something thats happening right now youre getting personal

[vernal glen]

lea

gerz is literally agreeing

please shut up

[dull forum]

my bad

[vernal glen]

when you say something toxic, you kind of consent to other people also being toxic

[dull forum]

shouldnt have entered the realm of the mighty speedrunners

[vernal glen]

fr

what color is your Eval speedrun

[covert cypress]

Her point was the voice comment

It reads a lot differently than you mean it to I think and it comes off as more of a personal attack than anything else

[placid marten]

.

[covert cypress]

which sure the toxic clique aren’t strangers to

[placid marten]

basically

[covert cypress]

however I am not toxic clique :)

[crimson shore]

i demand video evidence of you not being toxic

record your soul, your very being

[covert cypress]

no I can be toxic

[crimson shore]

i mean memes aside and shit

everyone loses composure every now and then. and realistically 99% of these beefs don't mean anything. it's discord. you probably forget when you get up from your chair and go for a poop or a snack or something

just gotta chillllllll a bit more

😎

interesting to see these speedrun rivalries though. legit anime-tier shit

two groups doing a level slightly better, half out of spite half out of passion for the game

[coral pelican]

(given what it sounded like happened with r3d1 i'm more tempted to lean towards the former half)

[placid marten]

wha? Id feel like its obvious we legit speedrun cuz we enjoy the game and speeding

[coral pelican]

not you guys

[vernal glen]

if it felt personal thats fine

what you said was also meant to feel personal

cope at this point

[covert cypress]

idk man I made a jab at a funny moment within gtfo history

I can’t say it’s that personal

Unless it’s something that deeply upsets you in which case, I apologise

but truthfully I can’t see you caring much about that this many years later

[vernal glen]

i only targetted the shit you said before it

they milked the R4E1 too much already by exaggerating every part of it

its probably the one thing you have in common with them

seeing as you did the exact same thing LOL

changing their D & E into just E and changing our A-D into just A & B

[covert cypress]

seems like I struck a nerve

my bad

im sorry I hammered r4e1 reactor I hope you can forgive me 🥰

[vernal glen]

no

and you didn't struck a nerve

the dodge may also be something you have in common

but they say we dodge everything too so maybe we just all have that in common

[covert cypress]

I mean I have no clue what you’re even referring to so

[vernal glen]

??

[covert cypress]

no I was most definitely not downplaying their toxicity by any means

im not entirely sure where you’ve gotten that from

I wouldn’t even say that I’m not toxic either LOL

I can be toxic

[vernal glen]

i meant that you do the same thing with exaggerating

[covert cypress]

ok well that’s definitely something we all have in common

you can’t deny that even you guys do that too

[placid marten]

[vernal glen]

i feel like everytime you guys say that to us

its assumptions

but when you do its literally facts

like its not a question if we both ran D tiers

there are videos of it

[placid marten]

id honestly wanna know of moments where we downplay others

[vernal glen]

idk im not confident that i never have

cuz it sure sounds like something i'd do in response to it

[covert cypress]

I know for a fact Wesley has towards some ppl before

Not even just toxic clique

[placid marten]

i mean im not saying i never did it
even by accident

[covert cypress]

I can’t remember any times where you have tho eva

[vernal glen]

i dont think theres anything concrete about it

its just your perception

i dont think you get it

[placid marten]

i think i mightve with the r3d1 situation?

[vernal glen]

like if someone does something that you consider easy and then you say its easy

thats a different level

than what you did earlier

its sharing thoughts

vs literally lying

i dont complain about them "downplaying" in the way we do

its more about straight up lies like what you just did, what sgx did in media, what they did with the "years" of R4E1, ...

this is something i dont think we've taken part in

its like you subconsciously realise how little meaning it would have if you didn't exaggerate

but let me RACE

[candid jackal]

this might be one of those situations where people have got it into their head that the other side/party is worse than they actually are

[covert cypress]

LOL

[candid jackal]

but hey what do I know I'm just a sod standing on the sideline hurling abuse at everyone

[covert cypress]

Pachi you’re 100% being cooked for that one

Ok but Wesley the a and b tier thing was definitely exaggeration that was the point of it

[candid jackal]

wait fuck I can't L + ogs you because you don't use logs

[covert cypress]

It was meant more so in a way that quite literally meant you guys weren’t competing

The German team jab is different tho I meant that one

[crimson shore]

same

[vernal glen]

but we played

the same level

[covert cypress]

ok that doesn’t involve me tho

[vernal glen]

ok so you are missing competition personally

[covert cypress]

I didn’t ever run r3d1

[vernal glen]

i would suggest running more than 1 level then

??

[covert cypress]

It’s just not my place to comment on a level I had nothing to do with LOL

they can fight with you over that

I am not the voice of toxic clique friend

[vernal glen]

yeh but you're missing competition

you played 1 level

[covert cypress]

so far sure

[vernal glen]

i could just say
there's no competition, one team runs one level and the other teams runs 50 levels

[covert cypress]

ACTUALLY I ran r7e1 a few times so like

That’s 2 levels :)

[vernal glen]

but you dont have the record

so there was competition

[candid jackal]

run eval to make it 3

do it do it run the eval get sub 4:20 and never upload

[covert cypress]

I was running it with bread for a while

I was the competition to toxic clique

[vernal glen]

damn

joined THE VILLAIN

[median quarry]

You are actually insane then, you ran for 2 records and already have 1 world record!

[covert cypress]

it’s true

Not verified tho :(

[vernal glen]

you should record

[covert cypress]

Id have to turn off my aimbot and infinite ammo mods then

[vernal glen]

3rd party program is allowed actually

ur good

just booster scroll

[covert cypress]

huge

What if I recorded one of our runs

Could I put it on speedrun.com

[candid jackal]

Idk I think notepad++ is cheating

[vernal glen]

dont use that word here

[placid marten]

not epad*

[late linden]

Out of curiosity I want to ask, lawless allows door glitching, right?

[placid marten]

yea

its a major glitch so theres a filter for it tho

[late linden]

And it also allows whatever black speedrunning magic you guys do to make R2C1 terminals uplink not spawn a single wave, correct?

[late linden]

What does this mean?

[placid marten]

you can filter runs with/without major glitches like door glitch for lawless

[late linden]

so lawless has 2 sub categories?

[placid marten]

lawless has a ton of "technical" sub categories due to how speedrun.com works

its a filter tho

slightly different

[round kite]

Get ignored

[covert cypress]

it’s fine

[round kite]

[covert cypress]

I guess we will never be verified

Truly so sad

[round kite]

Just become moderator on speed.com

Then verify yourself

[covert cypress]

True

That sounds like I have to do work tho

[placid marten]

@round kite i still need your new/actual log btw

[round kite]

Shit

I forgor

You can have it in 12 hours

[placid marten]

[round kite]

[weary oriole]

I have been keeping up with all the speedrun drama that has been going on for so long now and I really have to get this off my chest. It has been bothering me for so long… I hope it does not disrespect or hurt anyone’s feelings but I have to say it at this point…

4 Use Tool Refill

[misty relic]

Thank you for being brave enough to stick your neck out and speak the hard truth after all this time

[weary oriole]

This comes from the bottom of my heart. I love you all and keep up the great content ❤️

[warm hearth]

@covert cypress i dont get it why people cant just play competetive in a calm way... and i mean that from both Sides.

I mean i legit dont know who shot first, but idc.

I do the speedruns for fun, and to have a time to beat (even if it is verified or not) is fun for me.
And i have to say the Obsession from BOTH Sides to proof something is very annoying for me.
Its nothing against Gerz or the Squad.
Its nothing against my mates, just my Opinion.

[round kite]

Bad take. L

[placid marten]

id add another reaction
but its 4 tool

[round kite]

I miss the good old days where you could just look to see if there was supposed to be a 4 use tool or not. This log shit is dumb.

[placid marten]

sigh

[indigo quarry]

le sigh

[weary oriole]

What’s the good old days?

R6?

[wind cliff]

bread is pitski new alt

[round kite]

I LOVE YOU FIREBLADE

[weary oriole]

Thank you

[round kite]

FEATURE ME IN YOUR NEXT SPEEDRUNNING GUIDE PLEASE

[wind cliff]

XD

[round kite]

LOL

[weary oriole]

I don’t seedrun

😂😂😂😂

[round kite]

[wind cliff]

just wait for r8

you will fall back to the dark side

[weary oriole]

R8 is a lie

Wake up kids

[wind cliff]

calle would never lie

we go way back (r6)

[round kite]

r9 conna be a crazy announcment

[indigo quarry]

i already told you all, r8 is the water rundown

[wind cliff]

alt r8 2032

[round kite]

pirate gtfo

[indigo quarry]

also instructions for stuck jumping are on the internet, go find them, good luck

[wind cliff]

WIAT

what

can i get a hint

pls

[weary oriole]

We can speedswim R8 im sure it’s coming out very soon

[wind cliff]

goose chase me

[covert cypress]

cant wait for the oxygen canisters to be added

[weary oriole]

Anyone down to speedswim some inferno?

[covert cypress]

idk if i want to

[wind cliff]

i am down

[indigo quarry]

no

[wind cliff]

only if we cheat our weapon

[main wigeon]

What's the current WR for R3A1?

[coral pelican]

src says 5:06 restricted, 4:38 lawless

[normal ember]

bro people speedrun this shit?

how do you speedrun a game with little to no movement and where stealth is the way to go most of the times

[native crest]

That's what makes speedrunning hard, you don't have time to stealth :)

Game is hard when you sprint through every zone and pull every enemy

[normal ember]

damn bro

where can I find some speedrun vids

[candid jackal]

Either on the gtfo speedrun.com page or youtube

[queen kernel]

No time to think

Just remember the layout and you’ll get by

[versed echo]

You don't stealth

Very few levels have strats where you stealth

Usually it's all hell breaks loose

[median quarry]

well you don't have to stealth when you can just have everything behind an invisible door

[versed echo]

Even in lawless it depends

R3D1 lawless still has stealth charger zone strat

[median quarry]

what is a lawless

[versed echo]

Lawless% category comprises of runs that include boosters and major glitches

[median quarry]

sounds meaningless

[versed echo]

speedrun.com terms

[bleak crane]

It's a pretty meaningful distinction.

[median quarry]

the category is meaningless

[coral pelican]

how do you figure

[median quarry]

do you think it's a meaningful category?

[coral pelican]

as one of the two "ruleset" categories, yeah

[glass cradle]

do you think a door bug speedrun is the same as a regular?

[coral pelican]

lawless vs restricted

restricted is the more popular speedrun generally

which disallows doorbug

[median quarry]

i don't think it should be done in the first place

[coral pelican]

doorbug?

cause if so then restricted is the category for you
sometimes lawless is a pretty neat speedrun which is why it exists as another category

[median quarry]

you seem really adamant with defending lawless, i assume you have a lawless wr right

[coral pelican]

what an argument lol
sick attempt at assassination of character :)

like, i do

but i held that opinion before i did lol

[nimble ridge]

Having an unrestricted category on an lb isn't a bad thing lol

[median quarry]

why are you dodging the question

[coral pelican]

bill, can you read

i answered the question

[median quarry]

so which expedition do you have wr on

[nimble ridge]

Cool goalpost you're moving there buddy

Categories that allow for a broader approach to runs are exclusively a good thing, it's very silly to tell people they aren't allowed to run a game a certain way or that their runs don't matter because they're playing the game the way they want to

[median quarry]

why are you also upset

[nimble ridge]

Why are you upset? lol