gtfo-speed-running

[versed echo]

That is the Kenny vid lol

[wind cliff]

Nice

[versed echo]

Feat. Wesley

[wind cliff]

The difference between long and short black hops

So massive

If you don’t know if your doing it

You can let go of the “w” key

If you are going forward congratulations

If you stop you are messing up the timing

[wide hamlet]

Ah

So thats what it means when it feels like u jump into an invisible wall

Just messed up the timings completely

[wind cliff]

Only if you let go of your movement.

yeah

[wide hamlet]

Makes sense

Can it be done without sprinting? For example with holding the turbine in fog or baby etc

[wind cliff]

Yeah

[wide hamlet]

Oh nice i need to practice that XD

[wind cliff]

@versed echo how many times do you hit it manually

[wind cliff]

Also you can do it while charging spear

[wide hamlet]

How much faster is it?

[wind cliff]

At best it is sprint speed or faster

[wide hamlet]

Ah

[wind cliff]

If you are client you can b hop silently

And I think that is all use cases

[wide hamlet]

Wait so basically going back to silent fast clear roons

[wind cliff]

Besides the human possible reload and momentum shifts

[wide hamlet]

Rooms*

[wind cliff]

No

Like sleepers just don’t hear you

[wide hamlet]

Yeah thats what im meaning

[wind cliff]

Yup

Not really for clearing though

[wide hamlet]

U used to be able to b-hop and kill sleepers with little to no problem

[wind cliff]

Yup now you have to client and not have an instant connection

[wide hamlet]

Oh more for getting in and out of zones without waking?

[wind cliff]

It isn’t really useful

To use in that way

[wide hamlet]

Ah sad

[wind cliff]

Your kinda locked into a direction

[wide hamlet]

What way r u meaning then

[wind cliff]

small kills and tiny escapes

Really only use case and even then if you mess up whole room is up

And you need to have some ping

[wide hamlet]

Ah

So pretty much nearly useless

[wind cliff]

For speeds yeah

For flexing

It is great

I also don’t think you understand how tight the timing is

[wide hamlet]

I would have to try it to see

[versed echo]

5 last time

Oh you meant how many times you spam space bar

I hit it just before I touch the ground, at least a solid 5 times

[wind cliff]

No how many hops can you hit without macro

[versed echo]

Oh so the number didn’t change

Lma

Oh

2-3 normally

5 max once

[wind cliff]

Yup

Sounds about right

[versed echo]

Yep

[placid marten]

@candid jackal the removal of bulkhead doors for main honestly is a speed up for some runs

[candid jackal]

I guess

but a few seconds of quickness is not worth it compared to losing the cool factor of a big spinning metal door

[placid marten]

true, for general gameplay its sad

[rustic nimbus]

it does make the non-main sectors have a more intimidating vibe

(because they have the special doors with the special intro instead of the generic doors with the normal intro)

[candid jackal]

and from a speedrun perspective, even if it's a few seconds faster relative to the original, it doesn't save any time from alt runs themselves

[wind cliff]

If only bulkhead doors opened faster

[candid jackal]

I can see this, although at the same time having "Warning. THREAT LEVEL: XYZ" playing on repeat did the same thing

[wind cliff]

@placid marten when we doing pe speeds

[candid jackal]

the new voiceline that only plays once is kinda eh, doesn't feel like it has as much gravity

[wind cliff]

it is gonna be awful

Awfully fun

[placid marten]

when we have the info maps

[candid jackal]

obj item spawns, alarm scan rng, bulkhead scan rng

oh yeah, it's all coming together

[placid marten]

A2: main, dog shit rng
optionals? basically none

[wind cliff]

We start on a3 secondary then

[candid jackal]

I'm sure some HSU is going to be faster than another and you want a cell spawn close to gen, but other than that yeah

[placid marten]

yeah A3 is rly only bulkhead keys and osips

well and the keys for that zone if needed

[placid marten]

yea, but the rng for main is dog

same thing with cell, but cargo spawns

[candid jackal]

ah right yea

[placid marten]

ontop of cell

[candid jackal]

I think I'll just complete alt 4 d2 and e1 and disappear into the night

[placid marten]

funny thing. you can do both bulkhead scans with 1 key

if you time it frame perfect

when you finish 1 while other deploys

safes a bunch of time

[candid jackal]

maybe I'll try grind a ~7:20 alt r1a1 logless but eh

[placid marten]

technically

[candid jackal]

guessing that would count as a glitch/go into lawless

[placid marten]

@candid jackal do some r4a3 solos or smth. 2nd bulkhead key is static and its kinda nice

[placid marten]

depends on severity and would have to be discussed

for now its not in a run yet so will see

[wind cliff]

Oh shit

That is crazy

[placid marten]

thats the picture i posted in media

we tested it and it worked out

[covert cypress]

I was curious about this cause we got a venn in d2 for bulkhead scans

[placid marten]

we just stopped cuz we didnt rly have a plan for that full run lol

[placid marten]

ive heard about that

but its different

still would obviously safe time

basically same glitch level

[covert cypress]

it seems kinda goofy ngl

[placid marten]

if not fixed (might get fixed who knows) then it will def become a strat for either restricted or lawless

[wind cliff]

Beth have you seen the e1 secdonary scan

There is a funny funny path it can take

It feels like a fucking joke

[covert cypress]

the one where it goes down through pit and back to ladder?

[wind cliff]

Yup

[covert cypress]

yea I saw that earlier

[wind cliff]

I couldn’t stop laughing

[vernal glen]

he rly said might get fixed

[round kite]

I love trolling

[indigo quarry]

stolen line

[languid narwhal]

@teal fulcrum

[round kite]

@teal fulcrum

[teal fulcrum]

@teal fulcrum

[wind cliff]

Guys we should do level races again

[vernal glen]

ok

[round kite]

me vs you, r7e1

but we kiss instead

[placid marten]

bread vs what americans call bread

[sand moon]

teleport more bread

and faster

[round kite]

There’s too many Peters to keep up with

[wind cliff]

Wait

I thought it was rgx

[torpid jacinth]

Hi! Is there a guide how to speedrun R2E1?

[wind cliff]

be good

[little bloom]

ladder foam

[round kite]

ask badger

[wind cliff]

okay you need to find cell in first zone you want to start surge as quick as possible there is like 3-5 spawns that show up enough make sure you know them. while your looking for cell you can list cells in the next zone so you can know where your going. after your done with the surge you will need to quick go through blood door this is probs the most cursed part of the run. you dont want scouts going off but you need to stay alive and clear the rooms until you get the cell to start 2nd surge.

[torpid jacinth]

Well, just be good lol. Our team is obviously not that good if I am asking this question here

[wind cliff]

yeah the problem is you play the level really fast

c foaming ladders and taking more time is someting you can do

i would go for a 35 min time then a sub 30

the opening stuff isnt really worth it cause you wont get a lot of runs going

[torpid jacinth]

we usually die on the first surge alarm after error alarm

[wind cliff]

are you trying to get your first clear

or a lot of clears

[torpid jacinth]

yeah we didn't clear it even once)

[delicate flare]

then u dont wanna speedrun

[wind cliff]

are you running burst sentry c foam mine bio

or what tools

[vernal glen]

make sure you drop the cell at least 3 times on your way to the gen

and then foam the ladder 5 times before putting in the cell

[torpid jacinth]

yeah

[wind cliff]

what are you c foaming

just 3rd surge

?

[torpid jacinth]

everything

[wind cliff]

that doesnt help me

[torpid jacinth]

ladder to zone 600 especially

[wind cliff]

LOL double burst you might find easier

c foam strategies are good but they are much better if you go fast

[torpid jacinth]

that's true

[wind cliff]

if you are set on taking c foam

dw you can

just c foam the ladder going to the 3rd surge area

and save fog repllers from first zone

hold on to them until that first surge during error

that first surge on error is just a version of the opening surge as well same room same everything pretty much

[torpid jacinth]

Thanks a lot. What is the most effective wat to get to this first surge?

[wind cliff]

you want to be carring cell baby turbine into the error section with your bio leading the way

when ever your bio cant clear you need to drop clear most of the wave then contuine

[torpid jacinth]

Thanks again

[wind cliff]

no worries idk if you recrod you gameplay but if you try again we can help you more with that

[torpid jacinth]

We actually do everything almost as you described. Apparently we are just not good enough at this game yet.

[wind cliff]

umm maybe

i just need to see you play

could be your doing it in a way that is making it harder

[torpid jacinth]

Well speedrun chat was probably too much for our problem. Our last try took more than 2 hours LOL. I understand that asking for help here was a little too much but i am so tired of this level that i want to complete it as fast as possible)

[wind cliff]

No worries speedrun chat is dead tbh

[orchid copper]

gtfo-slow-running when

oh. using the # does that.

I have just learned a new way to be annoying.

[delicate flare]

general chat did it first skill issue

[placid marten]

tbh most of the people who speedrun just talk on the specific servers or in person

[vernal glen]

holy shit the more i read this message the less serious it looks

i do actually want to run it tho

but there's 3 other people that need to join

i brought it up in our group

and i made maps

so like

still wanna do C3 as well

and E1 will preferably be without extreme

i find it fucking hilarious tho that the only level we both grinded, you got fucking destroyed rick

how does that work for your ego

[placid marten]

the only thing id wanna do before those for now is r4a2pe

(And maybe r3c1 cuz that time being at 11:37 is oof)

[vernal glen]

after the shittalk you did about it

biggest L i've seen from you guys

you're good at the game but pretty much lack every other speedrunning skill

[placid marten]

heyhey wesley

Bread beat their r1d1 aswell while forgetting to be on the terminal.

[vernal glen]

i'm just talking about runs i went for

you could shit on the R2E1 for sure as well

what the fuck is that constant cell dropping instead of just going for the gen

you guys literally aren't bad at the game

surely you can put the cell in imediately and still find a way to survive

instead of looting/foaming the ladder for a whole ass minute before proceeding

imagine you run such a small subset of levels and you don't have the balls to push them to an actual optimized point

[wind cliff]

not forgetting. not being able to type

[placid marten]

poor bread, that run will forever be there cuz i refuse to do an attempt to beat it just for that

[vernal glen]

reminds me of that one time kenny made us redo a really good run because he forgot to record his pov

i dont even remember what level it was

[wind cliff]

r7d2 i think

[vernal glen]

maybe

or maybe it happened more than once even

[wind cliff]

but wesley i will se you in r5e1 i am gonna use no clip and ass on your time XD

[round kite]

FUCK YOU ALL

go play more MONKEY TYPE losers

[wind cliff]

you need it

[vernal glen]

screenshotted

[placid marten]

Love you man

i need more bread

didnt have much recently

[wind cliff]

bread reminds me of the top slice of bread not the entire loaf

[untold laurel]

Oh God here's another pat myself on the back party jfc

[indigo quarry]

bread reminds me of a joke thief

[wind cliff]

bread is a joke thief

[vernal glen]

the only reason your run gets shit on is because you boast about it

i can bring up R3D1 a million times and you cant say shit about it

because you did the exact same thing for R2E1 against bread/eva/...

fucking idiots

[covert cypress]

Wesley have you ever thought about how words can be HURTFUL

[coral pelican]

lol

[vernal glen]

in my mind you can be toxic towards toxic people

dont care

[coral pelican]

shoutouts to feedback loops

[placid marten]

This would be a positive feedback loop

[vernal glen]

notice how what i just did is something i wont do towards literally any other runners

but then notice how what they do does happen to other runners

[covert cypress]

are you gonna do it to me

[vernal glen]

really interesting

[covert cypress]

can I be flamed too Wesley

[vernal glen]

stop talking about me

[coral pelican]

i mean they are dickheads to certain people
but also
this whole shit is starting to get kinda
tiring doncha think

it was funny and interesting to observe for a bit but now it's just like

public shittalking

[covert cypress]

I can’t stop talking about Wesley the silent one

[vernal glen]

i dont find it tiring

[covert cypress]

honestly I enjoy reading it all LOL

it’s good fun

[coral pelican]

i kinda enjoy reading it but it's just getting kinda stale
cause i mean the end goal is still just go fast in video game right

why gotta be assholes to others about this goal

[placid marten]

for some yea

[coral pelican]

just cause they like to do it in a different way than you

[wind cliff]

same

best entertainment in gtfo

[vernal glen]

fr tho

its literally fuel to do better

[late linden]

It's a competition I guess

[vernal glen]

yeh

[late linden]

I mean, why have leaderboards and such if the point isn't to compete

[vernal glen]

sure its nice to have a wr

[coral pelican]

i mean
you can have competition
without
being dickheads

[placid marten]

its best to have people to compete with and push you

[late linden]

Personally, I feel like competing in a game that's structured NOT to be a competition is... whatever

[coral pelican]

if that's just what you guys wanna do then
alright

[vernal glen]

but god damn does it feel even better to beat some people that keep boasting every achievement they get LOL

[placid marten]

that doesnt mean you have to be a dick about it

[late linden]

But that's just what I've always thought about speedrunning in general

[placid marten]

tbf thats like 99% of speedrunning

[wind cliff]

the problem not everyone agrees on the rules of competition

[coral pelican]

i relate to the feeling of beating someone who you really dislike don't get me wrong

[placid marten]

this lol

[coral pelican]

but i still don't see the being assholes to each other part being necessary

[wind cliff]

no i want to be a dick thank you

[vernal glen]

it can't be a nice environment if one party is constantly boasting like that

so it is what it is

[coral pelican]

you realize that the stuff i'm saying is kinda directed towards both parties right

[placid marten]

like that* is the point

you can boasts without being like that

[late linden]

I'll be sincere, I realize my take is super-personal so whatever, you guys have fun doing maps fast, who am I to judge

[untold laurel]

Holy fuck the pat party is still going

[coral pelican]

what pat party

[vernal glen]

see he literally can't talk

[placid marten]

id honestly be suprised where youd think its similar o.O

[late linden]

Can you?

Really?

[coral pelican]

yes, i've been in them lol

[vernal glen]

i dont think you have the full context

for some of the stupid shit they have done LOL

[placid marten]

Yes lol
theres other speedrunner groups that didnt flame each other, its actually the majority lol

[coral pelican]

no i do

[late linden]

I'm not talking about your case, I've no idea about what went on, it's just that generally I dont see how what Jarhead says actually happens

[coral pelican]

but that's also why what i'm saying goes towards both parties
if both of you just decided ya know what, let's just chill out a little and do while disliking the other group but not being dickheads
then the competition is still there without just being rude in public

[placid marten]

we… did tho? We just chilled and did our runs lol

[coral pelican]

is that why wesley came out here fists swinging

[vernal glen]

it copying their behaviour

[placid marten]

you think wesley did this out of nowhere o.O

[vernal glen]

that was the whole point

[untold laurel]

Guys I'm a SANJI SURVIVOR OK???

[covert cypress]

man

[coral pelican]

if i missed further encouragement then fair enough but yeah you guys were pretty chill here for a while and then all i saw was wesley start shittalking them here today again lol

[vernal glen]

yeh why not

its the same thing they did

sure i can be the "better" person and not do that

but that wouldn't be very fun

[coral pelican]

if that's just how you feel then fair enough ig

[placid kite]

wesley do u not realize how they spent 3 weeks to beat our r2e1 but we didnt even play gtfo after 11:55 r3d1

[wind cliff]

i dont think wesley cares about us tbh we are a means to an end

[placid marten]

ignoring that we never said our run before was optimized

ignoring how you said youd only upload a run in r3d1 if it was optimized. Just for us to beat it on the first day 😐

[covert cypress]

so when are you beating the r2e1 run

[placid kite]

we literally just said we upload sub 12 and thats all

[wind cliff]

yup it was a pretty good run to

[vernal glen]

they're more focussed on optimized runs

its hard to tell cuz i dont watch u guys stream or anything

but i think you continue runs when they are just bad

or play too safe in a lot of places

it gets you more runs

but it doesn't get you the fastest run

thats why not the whole team wanna play E tier

cuz we gonna die

many times

untill we get good run

[placid kite]

unfortunate

[wind cliff]

idk speeding with 4 players is just werid

as well

[placid kite]

e tiers are actually interesting because it relies on more than scan rng if you ask me

[vernal glen]

yeh

[wind cliff]

i like the pê runs

[vernal glen]

dont like settling for less tho when i know theres a better strat

[wind cliff]

for the same reason

[placid kite]

does this mean no e1 then from you

[vernal glen]

i dont know

[placid kite]

ok

[vernal glen]

i am committed enough

xdd

[untold laurel]

Tbh it's what Justin said. Longer levels are more interesting because there's less RNG to rely on

[placid kite]

same reason we never ran r3d1 or r1d1 again

[untold laurel]

It doesn't matter noobs. I have SANJI WARRIOR and you guys don't

[placid kite]

UR GAY

[vernal glen]

i dont think its less rng, just other factors that can take over and then make up for rng

but in the back of your head you still know that the best run is the good rng + playing rly well

and not just 1 of them

[untold laurel]

LOL

I won't say it

Gg

But let me take ss ok

[wind cliff]

okay well see everyone for r5e1 discussion

it has been fun

[placid kite]

think it needs to be said that ya all are god tier players compared to the majority of this game community doesnt matter if youre red or purple

How well you understand mechanics, know what to do in difficult situations or managing to clutch and sometimes even having to prove leadership or think out of the box or 20 steps ahead its something everyone can learn
And i am sure most of you people here have these skills

[placid marten]

cant believe none of you ran the true 0 rng run

[wind cliff]

thanks man mad respect for your things and gameplay skill

[covert cypress]

LMAO

[wind cliff]

what is LMAO

no am i getting played

[vernal glen]

its the duo server copy pasta

[wind cliff]

D:

D:

rick come on

[candid jackal]

does anyone know whats going on anymore, I think I need a youtube docu on this shit

[untold laurel]

Everyone mad

[vernal glen]

fr tho why did robert get the role and rick/peter didnt

[candid jackal]

which role, I feel like I'm missing something

and why is there a server for gtfo duos now

[vernal glen]

its a rly old server

[candid jackal]

do you think I can find godmerchantt there

[covert cypress]

Because you have to upload clears or smth

[vernal glen]

its in highlighted communities maybe?

[covert cypress]

Just a dumb system that doesn’t really mean much tbh

[candid jackal]

ah i getcha

I don't think I've kept footage of every duo (most of it got deleted)

[vernal glen]

@marsh tusk you should join their speedruns

you fit in with your exaggerations LOL

[marsh tusk]

where's the r2e1 wesley

[vernal glen]

never ran it

brought it up in the group just like with R4E1

[wind cliff]

big true

[vernal glen]

since they have girlfriends and jobs they don't wanna commit to E levels anymore it seems

[covert cypress]

LOL

UH

HUH

[vernal glen]

fr

[placid kite]

Shadow can't run with us because he is our coach and sponsors us

[marsh tusk]

lol

[covert cypress]

we're playing gtfo no one here has girlfriends man

[wind cliff]

hey

she is real

[vernal glen]

kolohe temp going afk to wave his imaginary gf goodbye

[covert cypress]

shes a 2d woman shes not real jish

[vernal glen]

pls help him

[placid marten]

tbh i think one of us said he just didnt want to do it with the foam strat

[vernal glen]

oh yeh xdd

i dont think they wanna hear that reason

[placid kite]

so much for the optimized mindset

[green fox]

Who decided to talk to the monkey

[vernal glen]

our optimized means fastest in fully ignoring all safe things

[green fox]

All he knows is MEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEM

[vernal glen]

foam shouldn't be faster

but its fucking E tier

[placid kite]

foam = ignore enemy

??

[vernal glen]

which isn't faster by default rick

[placid marten]

theres also not liking levels and thus not running them

[vernal glen]

it just means it'll be more safe

to ignore them

[placid marten]

i could theoretically optimize r2d2, but god i wont touch that lol

[vernal glen]

but you can ignore them either way

[placid kite]

so its not optimized but reckless

you guys like running RECKLESSLY

[vernal glen]

reckless is optimized unfortunately

its about speed not about doing it clean

we do dumb strats all the time if its faster

[placid kite]

but foam = speed

[placid marten]

i take so many hits due to a mix of being bad and taking risks for a second of time

[vernal glen]

it doesn't gain any time tho

[green fox]

Which level

[placid kite]

r2e1

[green fox]

LOL

Ok then dont use cfoam

GL

[placid kite]

good luck with 18 minute no foam

[vernal glen]

yeh exactly

we would die

a lot

[placid kite]

so just use foam?

[vernal glen]

but maybe we'd get a run eventually

[green fox]

NICE

[untold laurel]

I'm convinced Wesley only theorycrafts now. Imagine thinking getting hit a lot because you're ignoring enemies vs not getting hit and walking to an objective unbothered are the same thing

[vernal glen]

dude

[placid kite]

this is like
IM STARVING BUT I DONT WANT TO COOK FOOD

[vernal glen]

you guys dont understand speedruns

[candid jackal]

I can't remember, was there ever a discussion or verdict about banning ladder foam

[vernal glen]

i had to tell eva this for R3B2 as well

[untold laurel]

WHAT

[placid kite]

stop cloud gaming

[vernal glen]

you don't have to care about the enemies

[placid kite]

??

[vernal glen]

it will be more risky

[green fox]

Yes that's why we have r2e1 WR and still have mystery times left over

[placid kite]

so i just turn on godmode???

[vernal glen]

but FASTER

no

[placid marten]

Yes

[vernal glen]

you get lucky

or find a way

to make it work

[placid kite]

????

thats the most pub mindset

GET LUCKY

[green fox]

LUCKY

[placid kite]

JUST WIN THE LOTTERY

[untold laurel]

guys it's all theorycrafting.

[green fox]

LOL

LOL

[vernal glen]

i think you need an easier example

[green fox]

every Speedrun we do we get insanely consistent after time

[vernal glen]

if im walking with the cell to gen at 100% health

and there are 2 strikers chasing me

[placid marten]

yeah you guys rly dont get speedrunning, considering theres rng in gtfo. Obviously theres luck for speeds lol

[vernal glen]

i will not drop the fucking cell

im tanking that shit

cuz its faster

[covert cypress]

ok but how does rng

[green fox]

LOL

[covert cypress]

what even

[vernal glen]

on a non-speedrun

i will drop it

[untold laurel]

Foam ladder = stops 2 enemies in his head

[vernal glen]

you play the game differently in a speedrun

[untold laurel]

Holy fuck

[candid jackal]

No shade to anyone here but it feels like I'm watching people try to be inflammatory or provoke each other

[green fox]

It's it luck if we consistently get 10 mystery times faster WTF LOL

[vernal glen]

i know its different with the ladder foam

[green fox]

Actually how do we get 10x lucky

[vernal glen]

but the point still remains that the ladder foam doesn't save time

[placid kite]

yes it does

[green fox]

Ofc it does

LOL

[placid kite]

fighting 40 enemies at 1hp

vs not fighting 40 enemies

the first one is literally impossible

[vernal glen]

if you fight the enemies on a team scan

it loses 0 time

[placid kite]

and u lose time if u want to make it possible

[vernal glen]

so no

[placid kite]

therefore cfoam = time

[wind cliff]

yeah first is impossible i agree

[vernal glen]

you guys need to understand speedruns better holy shit

run some A tiers

[covert cypress]

ok but its a surge so youre always gonna have max enemy cap

[placid kite]

WESLEY

[green fox]

Wesley

[vernal glen]

you can kill enemies without wasting any time

[placid kite]

WHO CAN KILL 40 ENEMIES IN YOUR FACE IN FOG AT 1HP

NAME ONE PERSON

[vernal glen]

rick

[wind cliff]

deadly

[vernal glen]

you bring other tools

that can kill them

[untold laurel]

Didn't I say this is theorycrafting

[indigo quarry]

me

[green fox]

LOL

[vernal glen]

that take less time to set up than the foam

[green fox]

WHY

[vernal glen]

therefor saving time

[placid kite]

WHY THOUGH

[green fox]

NO

[untold laurel]

Not practical at all

[placid kite]

SENTZRY

U HAVE TO PICK IT UP

AGAIN

?????

[vernal glen]

no

[green fox]

R2e1 cfoam can have zero seconds lost

[vernal glen]

because there may be a time where you can pick it up

while something else is happening

and therefor

it loses no time again

[placid kite]

that depeneds

[vernal glen]

you guys literally don't understand speedrunning

[placid kite]

so heavily on the map

[vernal glen]

yes

[green fox]

No Wesley let me actually explain why cfoam loses zero time and you have to explain why it wastes time

[candid jackal]

Deadly's marksman rifle finds every shot

[placid kite]

and its not happening in r2e1

i can guarantee you that

[placid marten]

Tbf, the foam works without time loss since you foam while cell is being moved each time in an optimal run

[vernal glen]

but from your video, you are clearly spending time foaming the ladder

is there a faster way

likely

is it gonna be fucked up

maybe

[untold laurel]

100% y'all have a precision scale for measuring out 0.08g of salt when making food

[covert cypress]

i dont understand this argument at all

[placid kite]

foam

[wind cliff]

dick lenght contest

[vernal glen]

yeh maybe there's a good time for it

[covert cypress]

no like

[vernal glen]

but its not what they did xd

[placid kite]

u can foam

[covert cypress]

i get the argument but like

[placid kite]

across a room

[green fox]

@vernal glen after Big circle room scan the cfoam player can technically time this perfectly to pull the door to shadow zone and lose zero seconds and still catch up because the other 2 are carrying cells.

[covert cypress]

i dont get how foam is losing you time

[green fox]

This means zero seconds lost from cfoam

[covert cypress]

when without it you would have to deal with so much more

[vernal glen]

i am just comparing to your actual run

you had the cell at the top of the ladder

[covert cypress]

and you would be more fucked on rss cause of it

[vernal glen]

and fully emptied a foam launcher

[covert cypress]

like ur gonna have less ammo

[vernal glen]

before putting in the cell

[placid marten]

i think in a few runs we got it done very well, had it all setup and arrived perfectly on scan, having it setup for both alarms

[covert cypress]

whereas u just used tool

and got insane value out of it

[green fox]

Dude

[placid kite]

ok but we fixed that in the mystery time

so now what

[green fox]

In the other runs from D4s team

[placid kite]

is it still a loss?

[vernal glen]

i dont know

[candid jackal]

.08 is wild if you're not baking

[green fox]

Hey spent nearly 30 seconds not on scan

[vernal glen]

maybe its equal to another strat

[green fox]

Because they wanted enemies to spawn an extra room away

[vernal glen]

it doesn't gain actual time

[green fox]

GAIN TIME

OH

[vernal glen]

you're not faster because of this strat

[green fox]

WE TIME TRAVLING NOW BOYS

[vernal glen]

you're more safe

[placid kite]

wesley

u can never pick up a sentry again

if u optimize r2e1

[green fox]

No this is bad arguement

[placid kite]

ur never gonna walk there by chance

[vernal glen]

i dont know

[green fox]

Foam loses zero time

[vernal glen]

but maybe thats fine even

[green fox]

And nothing else gains time

[vernal glen]

maybe you leave it there

[green fox]

Unless you bring roller skates tool for cell carriers I guess

[vernal glen]

all im saying is that it doesn't save time

[placid kite]

wesley

[green fox]

Any time we lost in whatever run you are talking about is a separate execution error

[placid kite]

what if speedrun isnt about gaining time

what if life isnt about gaining time

what if time is too great for us to gain

[green fox]

if it's the fastest tool how does it not gain time

[vernal glen]

but it literally is !!!

[vernal glen]

because it doesn't

[placid kite]

and cfoam for r2e1 is the least loss of time for speed

[green fox]

Wesley if you want to say it doesn't gain time you have to explain what gains time

WHICH TOOL IS FASTER PLEASE

[vernal glen]

gain time means that you could run the level with godmode and the tool would make it faster

[green fox]

WHICH TOOL IS FASTER PLEASE

[vernal glen]

none of them

[green fox]

LOL

LOL

[vernal glen]

this is why you don't have to be locked in to cfoam

[green fox]

LOL

lol

LOL

[orchid copper]

man is going full schizo

[green fox]

lol

LOL

LOL

[placid kite]

oh so the entire argument is based on the notion of a word choice

[vernal glen]

except for maybe set situations like a mine to break a door

that could gain time

[green fox]

We ran mines

[vernal glen]

no rick you don't understand

[green fox]

Might not be the run on YouTube tbh

But we run mines

[vernal glen]

all these tools, your setup, can only lose time

maybe you find a way to make it not lose anything

that would be optimal

[placid kite]

but we did

[vernal glen]

good

[placid kite]

we found time where u are not punished at all

for using foam

[vernal glen]

but you didn't upload that run xdd

[green fox]

It had foam

What does it matter

[vernal glen]

dude i literally am just trying to make it clear to you

that without foam

you can technically reach the same time

cuz the foam

doesn't save any time

[placid kite]

but thats cloud gaming

"technically"

thats not practical at all

[vernal glen]

it may make things more safe

but that is all

[placid kite]

thats not realistic at all

[vernal glen]

its not practical cuz an E tier level is hard af

correct

[placid kite]

and speedrunning is about whats realistic

[vernal glen]

but it still is technically

and it kind of just is the speedrunning mentality

[placid kite]

so

when are you getting 4 robots to play for you

[green fox]

By why wouldn't you run foam

[placid kite]

if thats technically the best time

[vernal glen]

when i become smart enough to make this happen

[green fox]

Even in your world it ties with other tools for fastest time

But it's the safest strat

So why not run foam

[vernal glen]

i didn't mind running foam

kolohe didnt want to cuz its cheese

[green fox]

LOL

[vernal glen]

yeh

expected response

lmao

[placid marten]

Speedrunners in other games trying 1 frame tricks that happen every 1 in 50-100 runs for them when the run takes 2 hours until that point

Ah yes, realistic

[placid kite]

1 frame is more realistic than 40 enemies at 1hp

[green fox]

You literally know where rng items are

And ur concerned about in game mechanics

[vernal glen]

this is not a convo you need to have with me

its a convo for you and kolohe

but kolohe wont care

so leave him alone please

[candid jackal]

I'm sorry but I find this notion so incredibly stupid, no tool is going to make a godmode run faster unless enemy collision hard shoulders you away (in which case you want enemies to be dead but that feels like nothing to do with this argument)

[green fox]

I don't give a shit about kolohe

Never even seen the dude talk

[vernal glen]

its how speedrunning works

[placid kite]

i can understand if u dont feel like running the map

[green fox]

No intention to go talk to him randomly

[placid marten]

mines do

[vernal glen]

imagine the level in only its main progression

[placid kite]

but darkeva made it sound like thats the only reason you didnt run

[vernal glen]

in GTFO there is only 1 level where you have to kill enemies

R6D1

[candid jackal]

and yes, other games have very precise tricks that runners go for to save time but I don't think gtfo is close to approaching this level of optimisation

[vernal glen]

all other levels, this is not your goal

its simply a side objective to try and stay alive

[coral pelican]

but i mean that's literally how speedrunning works yeah
technically if you can kill the enemies well enough then nothing else matters as long as you're on scans

tool choice doesn't matter as long as you can stand on them

[vernal glen]

like im serious

play some easy levels

[candid jackal]

hm there's something I'm missing then

[vernal glen]

to get an understanding of this

[placid marten]

true

but losing 5-10 seconds is optimizing here for most levels

Eval is by far the closest to a normal speedrun in how optimized it got

[vernal glen]

you guys ran R4E1 already

did you grab the turbine

surely not

why not THO

[placid kite]

ok but having enemies obstructs your goal

[coral pelican]

as long as you're doing the time-locked things asap, then no other choices matter

[placid kite]

you get punished for having enemies in bad timings

and foam nullifies this

[coral pelican]

cfoam can make that significantly easier yeah

but that's still possible without it

just significantly harder

[vernal glen]

if the foam setup costs no time

[placid kite]

therefore its the optimal solution for r2e1

[green fox]

Wdym why not

[vernal glen]

then im all far it

[green fox]

You have to walk with the turbine

LOL

[coral pelican]

peter not say "LOL" challenge IMPOSSIBLE

[vernal glen]

the point peter is that you ignored the turbine despite the fact that it makes dealing with the enemies harder

because its a speedrun

you don't care if its harder

you care if its faster

[green fox]

It's slower

[placid kite]

thats all

its just slower

[green fox]

Cfoam is not slower in r2e1

Turbine is slower on r4e1

[vernal glen]

good

[green fox]

1+1 = 2

[vernal glen]

as i said

if it doesn't cost time, foam is fine

[green fox]

This doesn't prove your point

Nice job bringing it up then

[vernal glen]

i told you why foam wasn't gonna be an option for our team

[green fox]

What a genius

[coral pelican]

i think wesley's point is more so you should about time before safety

[vernal glen]

yeh

[green fox]

We do jarhead

We literally don't lose time from foam

[coral pelican]

right

no i'm aware

[vernal glen]

i think you refuse to reason with me dude

[green fox]

He wants to act like he knows more about speedrunning than us

[candid jackal]

can't you foam ladder while team is clearing the next zone (or even start foaming during the Class 4 playground surge) and lose very little time, if any

[vernal glen]

im agreeing that your foam is fine if it doesnt lose time

[coral pelican]

honestly i did kinda lose track of wesley's point somewhere along the way

i'm just pretty sure that's what his immediate point was

to the end of the cfoam-doesn't-save-time point

it just doesn't lose time and is safer

[green fox]

No

[vernal glen]

is there a newer video?

[green fox]

His immediate point was very obviously about the flaws of cfoam

You can just scroll up

[vernal glen]

i did not mean that foam has to be slower

[green fox]

And now that he probably thought about it the flaws in the video were separate from the cfoam

[vernal glen]

again, i agree foam is fine if it doesn't lose time

[green fox]

So now he backpedaled that we agreed this whole time

[vernal glen]

i acknowledge that there are way to make it not lose time

???

[green fox]

I can literally scroll up

[coral pelican]

please point it out to me then since clearly i'm an idiot

[vernal glen]

bro you are so set on calling people out for backpedalling that im just not allowed to agree with you ever

please man

[coral pelican]

because i want to see where that point is made clear

and if you can scroll up and point it out to me then i will gladly concede

cause i'm not gonna lie i'm hella stupid and blind

[green fox]

This ibe

[vernal glen]

what you should get out of this convo is that even if you find a way to not lose time with the foam, you still aren't gaining time

[green fox]

This one

[vernal glen]

and therefor the same thing can technically be achieved without the foam

[green fox]

This obe

[vernal glen]

you don't have to look deeper into it to find something to be toxic about xdd

[candid jackal]

gaining time compared to what? a theoretically perfect run? a run where you use another tool?

[green fox]

This one

[green fox]

This one

[covert cypress]

wait so the argument is dont take foam cause u could POTENTIALLY achieve the same without? what?

am i just not taking any tool then LMAO

[vernal glen]

just imagine a run where only the required things exist

[placid kite]

what

what is requried

??

[vernal glen]

see

[candid jackal]

that feels incredibly disingenuous, because it would be impossible to gain time over that

[vernal glen]

how the fuck do you guys not think about this stuff for runs

[green fox]

This one

[vernal glen]

you list the "musts" of the run

[green fox]

This one

[covert cypress]

ur original argument was what like

foam doesnt save time

[vernal glen]

enemies are never a part of that

[placid kite]

oh you mean obj

yes they are

they obstruct you

[candid jackal]

by looking at a run with only the required parts/items, you're setting a baseline far beyond what you'd ever encounter in the game

[covert cypress]

now ur saying its ok if it does save time?

[vernal glen]

since recently they might thanks to collision and in combat stamina

[coral pelican]

that's the point

[covert cypress]

this logic is literally impossible to follow

[vernal glen]

but otherwise no they do not

[candid jackal]

unless I am misunderstanding and I'm mistaken somewhere

[placid kite]

yes they do

[coral pelican]

mines can save time somewhere though

[placid marten]

1. thats the point
2. weve gotten incredibly close at times

[coral pelican]

cause it could break a door faster

[vernal glen]

no because you have health

[coral pelican]

or somewhere else idk about mines

[vernal glen]

as long as you dont die

nothing matters

[coral pelican]

i saw someone mention that mines can save time

[green fox]

Ok just ignore every message I reply to where you imply cfoam is no optimal

Thanks

[placid kite]

but if i have cell in my hand

[coral pelican]

that wasn't what he was saying at all

[late linden]

I like how pachi's name "Help this discord isn't healthy" shows sometimes

[placid kite]

and my friends have cell in hand

we will die in 2 seconds

but not with foam

[vernal glen]

maybe

[placid kite]

:D

[late linden]

Especially on these discussions 😄

[vernal glen]

or maybe not

[placid marten]

specifically on big hack doors if you have 1-2 people at that door

[candid jackal]

despite getting incredibly close at times, I still don't see how you'd gain time over runs like that

[vernal glen]

find a way to make it work

but the first step and the main priority is bringing that cell from A to B

[placid marten]

its how you plan for optimizing

[green fox]

Ok jarhead what do you think that I think of wesley?

[vernal glen]

if you can deal with enemies without getting in the way of that

its great

[coral pelican]

idk all i can tell is that you guys seem to vehemently hate each other

[vernal glen]

but its not your priority

[placid kite]

u know why enemies will get in the way

[green fox]

Ok I never said that outright here

[placid kite]

because no one in this world has 100% accuracy

[coral pelican]

i didn't say you said it

[green fox]

But the context clues ARE VERY FUCKING OBVIOUS

[coral pelican]

i said it you seem to yes

[green fox]

That's my point

He was very clearly trying to say cfoam is not optimal

[vernal glen]

no

[coral pelican]

he was saying so because presumably

[vernal glen]

in the run i saw

[green fox]

Ok

[coral pelican]

in the video he has reference of

[vernal glen]

it wasnt used optimal

[coral pelican]

^

[placid kite]

but thats not from cfoam

its from user error

but you pinned it on the foam

[green fox]

So either Wesley is stupid or lying

[vernal glen]

no

[coral pelican]

i haven't seen the run so i can't see

[vernal glen]

because that wasn't my point

i said we'd have to use something other than foam

because one of our teammates didnt want the foam

[green fox]

Your point was that we don't know how to Speedrun right?

[coral pelican]

but if you guys are correct then it's probably a case of the former

[green fox]

You said we don't know how to Speedrun right?

And you are basing that on the fact that we used one of the optimal stategies that you don't disagree with?

[coral pelican]

i'm ngl i don''t really see the point of that argument though

[vernal glen]

homie i cant judge runs that you don't upload

[green fox]

Is this the line of thinking we are at?

[candid jackal]

so you try and mitigate the real game factors to get as close as the theoretical run where you have only the required parts? it'd still remain that the argument of "it only saves time if it makes the theoretical run faster" is disingenuous

[wind cliff]

okay this is still going on but i am intrested how long is your theroy crafting time

[green fox]

We send some messages sometimes

But the best ideas come during runs

[placid kite]

cause you get a realistic version of whatll happen

[wind cliff]

LOL yeah makes sense

[placid kite]

and how much you can play better

[green fox]

And we actually bother to finish runs with bad times to get consistent

[placid kite]

to account for certain scenarios

[green fox]

Instead of having to reset 200 times

[wind cliff]

100% i make impossbile stargies during messages

[vernal glen]

but jish the A2 extraction would work tho

fr possible

good example even

[coral pelican]

i can see that argument tbf, but i still think the argument of "if the level in a vacuum is the optimal run, then how do you save time over it" is an important one to have, it's just not a very big one in this game

[vernal glen]

very fucked up, but faster

[covert cypress]

step 1: say foam is slower and doesnt save time
step 2: backpedal and say it doesnt gain time
step 3: say you dont use foam because one of your runners doesnt like it
step 4: cover yourself in oil

[grave path]

what is a sanji warrior?

[wind cliff]

what kind of oil

[covert cypress]

dont worry abt it

[vernal glen]

gerz its literally real

like its actually why

[covert cypress]

well yea

im sure it is

[vernal glen]

i dont care about using foam dude

i want to

[candid jackal]

any, as long it is immiscible with water

[vernal glen]

and i want to run both of the E tiers

[covert cypress]

but i dont understand how u went from being like

foam doesnt save time

[placid kite]

but if kolohe says no

just find someone else?

[vernal glen]

foam not saving time is true

[covert cypress]

man

[vernal glen]

i still stand by it

??

[placid kite]

you guys have like 8 members

[placid marten]

we usually start this line of thinking when we get close to such runs

Also we obviously dont aim for stacked 0.01% chances

(Imagine aiming for A key on r1a1 with Close b hsu)

[wind cliff]

kolohe girlfriend said no

we still holding out

[green fox]

Of course it saves time

It's the world record

If you find something that goes faster

[vernal glen]

only recently ran with the other people

[covert cypress]

ok but ur saying u can just get the same time without foam

[vernal glen]

i never plan anything with them

[green fox]

Then you are saving time over foam

[covert cypress]

so what

[vernal glen]

i just get invited

[covert cypress]

ur just gonna run sentries and leave them there?

[green fox]

Until that strategy is found cfoam saves the most time

[placid kite]

i can assemble a team for you

[vernal glen]

idk if they'd be willing to go for something consistently

ok

[wind cliff]

make the x factor gtfo

[coral pelican]

i think wesley's original point was they lost time to cfoam
i can't speak to validity because i haven't seen the run

[vernal glen]

fr

[placid kite]

Player 1: Wesley
Player 2: D4RKEVA
Player 3: Kenny
Player 4: Bread

[placid marten]

Its mostly rhat you look at the optimal scenario and then work back from that to where its possible

[vernal glen]

because in your mind my strategy doesn't count until i get a winning run with it

but in my mind, the strategy still exists

[coral pelican]

yeah eva i kinda know

[placid kite]

this is like going to court

it wasnt me!!!

but there is literal evidence

[crimson shore]

im better than all of yuo

[green fox]

well my strategy for getting rich is winning the lottery

[coral pelican]

true

[wind cliff]

honestly c foam was kinda clean the entire time the shadow blood door was cool but idk if it saves time but i also think they dont do it anymore

[green fox]

Do you view this as a viable source of income?

[vernal glen]

no

but thats a good example

because in life you shouldn't take too much risks

[candid jackal]

you have a sans pfp you are literally the lowest of the low

[vernal glen]

in speedrunning a game

YOU SHOULD

[green fox]

Actually tbh

[vernal glen]

if i die in the game peter

[green fox]

Wesley is right

[vernal glen]

i can try again

[placid marten]

was just adding that for pachi since thats the discussin we have

[green fox]

We only have the physical world record

[crimson shore]

true

[vernal glen]

insane tech

[green fox]

Wesley has the best world record

[coral pelican]

okay can we all agree at least that regardless of time cfoam is absolutely the safest and easiest to match the optimal time with

[green fox]

The one in his heart

And you can't beat that

[coral pelican]

fair enough :)

[vernal glen]

yeh seems right

[wind cliff]

na

[placid kite]

im gonna become a fifa 23 pro and coach lionel messy

on how he should play soccer

[wind cliff]

it is probs the fastest

[candid jackal]

I feel like I must be misunderstanding then because I can't see how to save time over the optimal scenario

[green fox]

Yeah and because of that it doesn't save time

New rule for speedrunning

[candid jackal]

Lernel messy

[green fox]

World record is now the baseline

[coral pelican]

the idea generally isn't to save time over it, it's to get closest to matching it

[vernal glen]

bro i only pointed out the loss of time

because the run you posted

was a loss of time for it

[green fox]

But you are a Speedrun god

[vernal glen]

if you found a way without a loss of time

[green fox]

It's pretty obvious those errors

[vernal glen]

that still uses the foam

thats good

[green fox]

Don't have to do with cfoam

[vernal glen]

please man

[wind cliff]

did we ever get to see the final mystery time @green fox

[coral pelican]

the optimal time is the optimal time
you're just trying to save time in areas of the wr to match the optimal run

[candid jackal]

ok so I guess the argument/part about it's only gaining time if it beats the optimal scenario was pointless then

[coral pelican]

yes

lol

[green fox]

This arguement is stupid

He wants to say that cfoam doesn't save time because it's only the optimal strat

Beyond that there's only time travel I guess

[vernal glen]

it doesn't save time

it has an opportunity to lose time

[placid marten]

Well peter, technically there is

if ya get checkpoint glitch to work outside of space and time

[vernal glen]

you can probably find a way to make it not lose anything

[coral pelican]

i mean let's say you played the same level without tools
if you were good enough at killing or otherwise making the enemies not matter, then cfoam wouldn't save time

[candid jackal]

save time compared to?

[placid kite]

can i photoshop the record since its technically the fastest according to my calculations

[coral pelican]

it's way harder to make happen sure

[vernal glen]

compared to running the level without it

[coral pelican]

but it's still hypothetically possible

[vernal glen]

it doesn't do anything specifically to increase the progress towards your objective

[placid kite]

why are u ignoring enemies as part of the game though

[vernal glen]

this basically

[candid jackal]

Unless I'm yet again misunderstanding, running with any tool should save time compared to running with no tool (maybe you could make a theoretical argument about biotracker)

[placid kite]

it makes no sense

[vernal glen]

because its a speedrun

if i dont have to kill them i don't have to consider them

i only have to consider them killing me or not

[placid kite]

but on r2e1 you do have to kill them

and u know this

[vernal glen]

or since R6, them slowing me down with collision, stamina

you don't have to kill them

but the level is so hard

[coral pelican]

technically, if you were absolutely god tier, you could hypothetically be so efficient at killing them that no tool would save you time

[vernal glen]

that you likely want to kill them

or do something to get them off you

[coral pelican]

since the goal is just stand in scans

[placid marten]

what i find funny is that i got memed on for theorycrafting the likely optimal time for r2e1 :>

[vernal glen]

but it is not required

[coral pelican]

tools don't help the scans go faster

the tools just make it easier to do scans optimally

[green fox]

Not ever going down and not having to step of scan helps with scan speed

And tools can enable that

[placid kite]

d4 said 17 minutes possible theory time

[green fox]

Tools save time

[coral pelican]

thanks for skipping over the other part of what i said :)