gtfo-speed-running

[round kite]

2 months....... or like 5 sessions of <4 hours over those 2 months

again time difference

[green fox]

OH BROTHER

[placid kite]

LOL

LOL

[green fox]

OOOOOOOOOOH

LOL

lO

LO

LO

LOL

ban me now mods

[wind cliff]

man

[green fox]

im having too mucb fun

[round kite]

take that as an estimate

[green fox]

LOOOOL

[wind cliff]

my conversation was so prodotive

[placid kite]

can we talk about how eva streamed on a weekday for 7h

[wind cliff]

now we are hear

[languid narwhal]

did he actually get to play

[placid kite]

they reset a LOT

brother

[languid narwhal]

stays winning obvs

[placid kite]

reset every time cell is in 598 or too far in 599

instead of coming up with a strategy that accounts for the rng factor

[glass cradle]

you guys are aware you can be right AND not be pricks right

[round kite]

if cell is in I and youre 2 minutes behind why would you run the rest out when you're already behind your PB?

im just curious

598 thing i can understand^

[placid kite]

you can still try I

but if youre too far behind sure go reset

but u guys reset in spawn for 599 anyways

[green fox]

you guys can get pb with cell in fucking h 598

WE resdet cell h 598 because it cant be PB

theres the difference

[round kite]

we do because we were trying strats that used the cfoam on small ladder

its experimenting

[placid kite]

even so u guys spend more time resetting instead of coming up with a strategy to account for cell rng

[round kite]

thats what we do in 599 too my dude

[placid kite]

u guys are used to logging

and resetting for your best odds

and thats how it changes the runs

with logs vs without

[placid marten]

rick. i played speedrunning long before logging was a thing

[round kite]

we are still figuring it out, we grouped up with a team we haven ran with before

kill a man if you have to experiment and work with a team in a team game

[placid marten]

and we barely run once a week if at all

[placid kite]

im aware eva

which is why its confusing when u say

it doesnt change the run

when it clearly affects the overall strategy for getting the logged item

[green fox]

also can i just say

this defense of "it sucks to reset all the time"

really doesnt work

because no one has a gun to your head telling you to do this

[placid marten]

it doesnt change the possible time
it doesnt change how you play the actual run

it changes your time of resetting mindlessly, something i know from a lot of the runners they hated about gtfo speedruns

and again, before you bring it up. i know that gather missions are actually changed by logs

[green fox]

if the nature of the speedrun isnt someting you enjoy

just leave it

dont change the rules to benefit to you specifically

or run other levels

[teal fulcrum]

#gtfo-media message

[green fox]

there are so many levels that you can run and learn to optimize

and get records

withouit logs

but you choose to do mostly levels you can get WR with logs only

if you dont like those levels just dont play them

[wind cliff]

stop let them cook

[teal fulcrum]

ok

[round kite]

i think thats what we do, thats what i do at least. ~~we ~~ I havent ran r7c3 or r7c2 because we I have just found more levels more enjoyable (theres more levels but obv im not gonna type out everything)

[placid marten]

i run all levels lol

[placid kite]

wheres the r7e1

[placid marten]

i litteraly do not playing r7e1

enjoy*

[placid kite]

:DDDDDD

[placid marten]

.

[green fox]

oh god

so you dont like playing skil based levels

you dont like playing rng based levels

[placid marten]

man...

[round kite]

its on the list (for me and jish) but other levels are coming before it cause there more fun (for me at least)

[placid marten]

its impossible to have a discussion with you guys

[vast quartz]

Alright lads we're kinda running in circles here, keep it civil or move on

[wind cliff]

gtfo main has active admins

lets good

[vast quartz]

no

[green fox]

i was beginning to think this chat was basically hidden somehow

[placid kite]

^

[covert cypress]

wouldnt blame them tbh LOL

[placid kite]

justin wants to run r2e1 with you eva

he can fill for joemie bio

[green fox]

eva justin wants to know if you want the worls best bio tracker

[round kite]

idk, seems like if this wasnt a troll comment he would ruin the run or criticize what we do then make fun of the runs with you guys

plus no one beats jo(edit:e)mie bio in my eyes :)

[covert cypress]

good work team

surely something will change from here

[round kite]

ye i think im done in general, i need to do hw anyways :/

[covert cypress]

good luck with hw mr bread

[round kite]

ty ty

[coral pelican]

i would like to compare a hypothetical run between log and no log:

no log: run to the spot where you'd like the key to be in, if it's not there, reset. if it is, run to the next part that level gen would determine, run to best spot, if it's not right reset, rinse and repeat however many times is applicable
log: start level, see if it's where you want them to be, if not reset

if all levels went like this then the only actual difference is just when you see that the stuff is where you want them

so presumably then for eva, where you're running for the relevant objects doesn't change, just when he resets does
so then, no, the strats aren't any different

lots of comparisons get made to minecraft, this is like multi-instance or whatever it's called, where they generate a bunch of seeds at the same time and then run whichever one looks the best to them immediately

[narrow mortar]

[upbeat tusk]

basically minecraft that run 8 seeds at once

minecraft speedrun allow runner to run like 8 seeds at once for random seed run

[placid marten]

true completely forgot about that

its always crazy to me how they can see the stuff they need that quickly

also a very clear way to show it

[upbeat tusk]

running the game 24/7

[placid marten]

in how the runs are pretty much the same

[coral pelican]

yeah, + a different mod that shows the world as it's generating rather than needing to wait for it to finish generating

= faster resets

[placid marten]

yea
ive tried speedrunning super mario before, the skill some people have from thousands of hours is insane

[upbeat tusk]

i ran payday 2 for at least thousand of hours already

that's why it felt weird when this log thing is bad

basically memorize the entire game rng and just run into the direction of the best rng route

[placid marten]

yep

[coral pelican]

and i would also like to say that if there was some way to legitimately tell if someone used logs rather than just assuming it's in the best spot and then resetting if it's not, then i would be all for splitting them
but i don't understand how you would tell that if the runs went the way they would if you were playing optimally

[upbeat tusk]

some of the heist over there, when you run it, you can instantly see an instant restart, because if you spawn in the wrong location, then restart at 3 seconds into the heist

[upbeat tusk]

you would need people to stream their display

[placid marten]

i feel like for a certain group of people heres its actually not the speedrunning or checking to see whats possible timeswise thats interesting

[upbeat tusk]

but then people with 2 monitors will just have the log file on the other monitor

[placid marten]

its boasting about whatever

[versed echo]

Majority of streamers have more than 2+ monitors

Hence why I mentioned it previously

[placid marten]

the issue is 4 people would need to do so
with multiple screens (and people could lie about how many they use)

also forcing people to stream is ... most likely not making speedrunning more popular

i think the closest to being able to check logs is smth someone i just talked to came up with

[versed echo]

And forcing them onto a platform as well is bound to get backlash, since not every content creation platform is equal/good

[placid marten]

make everyone in the lobby send their logs post session if the run was top 3~ for a level. This can still be circumvented tho and as @coral pelican me just said, for most levels this just means the exact same times

[coral pelican]

how would that help with knowing if someone used logs or not though?

[placid marten]

logs update when you go deeper into a level

so you could tell if someone kept spam resetting in drop

[coral pelican]

so just how long the resets are?

[placid marten]

but you could still just reset early enough

[versed echo]

Short to very short, dependent on level

But then again, it can be circumvented by "faking" it

[coral pelican]

i think you misunderstood my question lol

[versed echo]

Ah

In the logs file itself?

No idea.

I'll have to experiment with that

[coral pelican]

i was saying "so you would use how long the resets are in the log files to determine if they were using logs to find good runs or not"

[placid marten]

sry

2:30am brain

but yeah

[coral pelican]

gamer time

[placid marten]

pretty much

[versed echo]

Not strictly saying how long the resets are

But how the level generation is interrupted

[coral pelican]

fair enough, but same general concept right
just not strictly time

[placid marten]

tru is still typing

im worried

[versed echo]

Yea, should be

[coral pelican]

make them record with a physical camera watching their entire room so you can see everything they can

[versed echo]

If forced, invasion of privacy

[coral pelican]

of course, it's the only way

[native crest]

For a theoretically maximally optimized run, yes, there is no difference in how the run itself looks. Logs don't change the optimal spawn locations. This is R1A1 at the moment.

However, for a run that is not maximally optimized, a run using game logs does look different. The run not using game logs would typically use the terminal to discover spawn locations, and the route would incorporate different strategies to account for routing to the terminal/several different spawn locations at once. Meanwhile, the run using game logs would just run to the known spawn location. This is R2E1 at the moment.

It is unclear that all runs will eventually reach such a highly optimized state such that game logs do not impact how the run itself plays. Gather levels in particular are likely to never reach such a state.

However, using game logs will always change how "speedrunning" looks (faster resets, which allows more runs with competitive seeds). Some people prefer this way of "speedrunning". Some do not. As far as I'm concerned we should just cater to both groups (more on my proposal on how to do this later, unlike some, I allow time for my opinions to form and I'm still thinking about ways to do this).

[placid marten]

R2E1 (as many other runs) doesnt actually have anything you can check with logs btw
We just remember the spawn points and run by them checking for them

[versed echo]

However, if you ran a level long enough, you would have a relative idea to where things could spawn, discarding the use of the terminal. So in any level, you could just run to a spawn point w/o logs and if it's not there, reset.

[placid marten]

Gather levels truly are the big points here, since they usually have such high rng in their spawns that you can easily gain 10 seconds just by the difference of opening 1 wrong locker

[native crest]

Holy why so much argument around logs for r2e1 then holy moly

[versed echo]

So in theory, routing from terminal -> WO shouldn't be considered

[placid marten]

because they dont actually wanna argue about it

[coral pelican]

i don't think there was much for that, i think they were just trying to flame eva for being shit or something

[placid marten]

remember. I made a guide about it. The first comment was that i suck even while cheating
i tried to explain myself and why logs are allowed and got called a pedo

[coral pelican]

can you prevent logs from generating

can you make the logs folder read only?

[versed echo]

Logs is a read-only file already

If you open it, edit it, then save it, it will save as an entirely new file

Then a new log will pop up

GTFO needs read/write access from Windows

As for all 3rd party software

No, you also can't prevent logs from generating

[coral pelican]

can you make the folder itself read only though? like would that prevent gtfo from writing to it?

[versed echo]

It's data dumping

[versed echo]

Read only would cause GTFO to not be able to write to it

And you as a user would still be able to read it

Just not write anything in it

But as an admin you would be able to override it anyway

So no point

[coral pelican]

right
but if you made the logs folder read only
gtfo couldn't right a log to it
so you couldn't use logs for certain runs?

[versed echo]

GTFO wouldn't have anywhere to generate data dumping

Would kinda break it

[coral pelican]

exactly
so no logs

unless the game just wouldn't run

[versed echo]

I don't know

Haven't tried

But I am going to leer to the side that it would just break the game

But not something spectacular like you think it would

[small portal]

Even if that works...how do you verify?

[placid marten]

even if it works, how would it work with us checking that?

@small portal LOL

[coral pelican]

yeah hadn't quite figured that out yet either
was just open brainstorming

[placid marten]

oh yeah dw

thats how good ideas are made

especially since its civil

[versed echo]

If anything, the most plausible thing that would happen is it would just create an entirely new folder

[small portal]

brainstorming? mb shouldn't interrupt

[versed echo]

One that is write/read

[native crest]

We're not going to stop logs generating. We're not going to make every runner install an invasive mod. We're not going to make everyone record. We're not going to make everyone put a camera in their room. Can we please stop suggesting stuff like this.

PLEASE

[coral pelican]

what would be remotely invasive about preventing logs from generating if it didn't cause problems to the game itself?

[versed echo]

Would probably break laws and EULAs and stuff

And speedrun rules

So yea

Very true

[narrow mortar]

I'm not trusting that considering how easy it would be to insert a rootkit

[versed echo]

Jish and his idea of creating an invasive mod

Not stopping generating logs

Two different things

[coral pelican]

i agree the mod could be very very dangerous

[golden yew]

Ya know, sometimes the simplest solution is the best one

[coral pelican]

just wondering why they're so against preventing logs if it was an option

[narrow mortar]

TRUUU: Don't Speedrun.

[versed echo]

Yes, invasion of privacy and breaks speedrun rules

[narrow mortar]

[placid marten]

i just realized

[small portal]

The simplest is ... just allow logs and maybe has a special rule targeting terminal uplink

[placid marten]

people said they do want no log category since some people might not wanna learn that

but installing a mod for that is gonna be way harder

[versed echo]

That's not what the drama above was about lol

It was just logs in general

[upbeat tusk]

we need the dev to compile the log file so no one can read it

[placid marten]

yea
this is already being discussed and we even made a poll regarding it

[upbeat tusk]

[versed echo]

They didn't mention uplink once 😭

Just logs this logs that

[placid marten]

uplink skip is most likely leaving restricted

[versed echo]

Logs everywhere

🪵

[covert cypress]

Simply just make a category for no logs and a category for logs

[placid marten]

tru actually made one of the best points for uplink skip having to go from restricted

[covert cypress]

All this detection bullshit is such a waste of your time

You just trust the integrity of the people running

Is it really that hard

[coral pelican]

yes

[placid marten]

cuz that always works out

._.

[covert cypress]

it sometimes won’t

Who cares

[small portal]

I didn't speedrun GTFO, but how a speedrunner don't want to learn things? When I speedrun B4B I tried to remember any tumor spawns and any tricky grenade position that others posted

[placid marten]

the funny thing is
i can agree. and you know why? because a run with logs vs no logs will look the same

but imagine if logs actually made runs quicker

then you would feel like garbage

if someone acted like they didnt use logs

but did

[coral pelican]

the problem with just trusting, is if stuff gets bigger than it is
if somehow this game got a bigger speedrunning scene
and stuff got actually competitive
then it would be such an easy way to cheat

[versed echo]

Would look bad on the verification team too, not being able to detect anything just because the community said to just run on integrity and is being stabbed right in the back

[upbeat tusk]

it do feel weird isn't it

[golden yew]

coughs in 4 use tool

[small portal]

Also there's a huge amount of speedrunning that's running "timer" like liveSplit/wSplit, that's basically another program monitoring some in-game data that is not directly shown

[coral pelican]

oh mem based autosplitters? yeah that i feel like would be... a bit more sketch than reading a text file

[placid marten]

i mean weve recently found out that using recording software such as obs gives you a big advantage over runners that dont use it.
Pretty unfair. I think me make a no recording category? Especially since those recording softwares are 3rd party
(joke)

[coral pelican]

granted it's just the timer
but
it's just C# code
it can still write to files and stuff

[placid marten]

those are perfectly fine in games with loads. Great addition to speedgames!

[coral pelican]

yeah, not arguing against autosplitters and stuff lol
just saying, that could be a bit more dangerous than logs are
since you can have the autosplitter file still write a file to your desktop or something

[covert cypress]

this is not getting abigger speedrunning scene team

i hate to break it to you LOL

[versed echo]

Ah yes, team I got WR run no 3rd party software OBS, Notepad++, no VS Code, no logs, no bullshit, all vanilla, no modded, GTFO 1 use 3rd party software bundled w/ 1st party Windows 10

[small portal]

There's also speedrun community that will release official splitter config

[coral pelican]

the point

your head

[covert cypress]

i dont get why detection is such a big thing everyone is hard tunneling on right

like if u find a way to stop people from using logs for example right

people who want to cheat

will just find another way to cheat

[versed echo]

Beth, it's required by speedrun.com.

[placid marten]

nearly no active runner wants logless
"game wont grow", so we dont need to change it right. since we wont get new people?

[covert cypress]

doesnt roberts group want logless

[coral pelican]

because if you can't detect it, then what's the point of separating them
it just leaves it open to someone cheating if they wanted to

[placid marten]

they are banned

[versed echo]

We don't just go "oh, here's a run, just verify it". No, we are required to analyze the runs.

That's literally speedrun.com TOS.

[placid marten]

and they dont even run levels where logs have an impact

[covert cypress]

so because theyre banneed from the website means their opinion on speedrunning is irrelevant

not meta

team

[versed echo]

That's why detection was brought up.

[covert cypress]

helkp me

there we go

[placid marten]

yes, people that dont interact with something and are banned from a community for only inciting drama dont have their opinion get taken into consideration regarding categories for that community

[versed echo]

It's also best to prevent cheating in the future as well.

[placid marten]

why make a category for people that wont be able to run it?

[covert cypress]

so ur disregarding an entire argument because u dont like these guys

aight

[placid marten]

yeah beth sure

[covert cypress]

im not wasting my time with this anymore man good luck figuring this out team

[small portal]

We do care about their opinion, and I personally respect their speedrun skills, that's why we're here to have a discussion?

[coral pelican]

we're disregarding this entire argument yes

that's why this channel has been lit up for over an hour

[placid marten]

acting like speedrun.com TOS isnt a thing
acting like communitys arent allowed to ban people for being assholes

[covert cypress]

where did i say u arent allowed to ban them

[placid marten]

and i legit still try to listen to their opinion

[covert cypress]

i never said they arent assholes

[placid marten]

contrary to them doing the same to me

[coral pelican]

quick question
is their ban permanent

[placid marten]

Also please dont say we are disregarding something when we are actively discussing it

while you are disregarding points others make without acknowleding them

[placid marten]

yes?

pretty much

[median quarry]

[placid marten]

noooo you changed your name

[versed echo]

Didn't we... just have the drama about the entire point?

[coral pelican]

then why should they care about what the src rules
they can't submit to it then just run with whatever rules you want
if you care about stuff being "accurate" to your own rules then make your own thing to track valid times?
you're gonna have to anyway if you're banned so what's the point

[versed echo]

I am so lost with that statement

[placid marten]

btw this is a point wesley made before that still stands 100% true

you can still speedrun

they are just banned from the speedrun community discord for bad behaviour and from speedrun.com gtfo for the same issue

if i would be forced to do every level with door bug

then id probably just not do it

and not upload

and just do my own thing

[coral pelican]

i mean that's kinda besides the point anyway
it's not like their runs would be rejected if they weren't banned
they're obviously still doing runs anyway
just since they can't be put on src then why should they even pay attention to src rules

[placid marten]

cuz drama

thats seems to be their reason

[versed echo]

I have never seen them civil once

[coral pelican]

eh actually idk
i guess i can kinda see still caring about what the rules are

[covert cypress]

that is the toxic clique void

[versed echo]

Always shitting on something :/ doesn't even have to be about rules it would be just targeting other people

[covert cypress]

they are not civil

but they still make good points if u look past the toxicity

[versed echo]

Yes, and that's what the entire past 2 hours was about, Gerz.

[coral pelican]

fwiw they clearly do care about going fast in the game
which is a good aspect

[covert cypress]

crazy

[versed echo]

We didn't ignore their points.

[placid marten]

theyve made 2 good points in all their discussions.

1. why isnt seeded a thing (explained)
2. kaneki still a verifyer

[covert cypress]

yet u said none of the active runners want a logless category

so what

[placid marten]

suprise both are mostly resolved

[coral pelican]

active not-banned runners then

[covert cypress]

i guess only u guys get a say? is that what im supposed to take away?

[coral pelican]

runners that have to adhere to the rules

[placid marten]

yes beth
thats why we made a poll to get the community opinion

to disregard it all and ban everyone so i can have all the WRs

thats what you wanna say?

[covert cypress]

thats a different thing completely ok

im on about logless category

why are you guys so against a logless category

i dont see the issue

[versed echo]

We have many points.

[covert cypress]

detection is a fair point but i dont think it matters as much as u guys think it does

[versed echo]

Impossible detection being a big one, and please don't go on about "no detection"

Also, running logs doesn't change any skill or rng in the map; it is not seeded and we didn't magically increase our skill by 1000%

We are still bound by RNG

In more than 1 ways

[placid marten]

1. detection
2. same ceiling
3. same run strat
4. reduces needless rng while still keeping every run unique

[versed echo]

Resetting vs changing map layout are 2 very different things

[placid marten]

and beth, we have been thinking way more about how to implement a no log category

than any of them

[upbeat tusk]

just put a logless run vs log run side by side for a comparision

[placid marten]

weve been going over way more possibilites

[upbeat tusk]

[versed echo]

Only difference would be the time to get a run, not a faster time itself

Which was Eva's point

[upbeat tusk]

basically, ye

i'm making a joke

it basically copy-paste a video into 2 sides

[versed echo]

Logs = F3 in MC, for those that wanted a comparison

[placid marten]

its not the best tbh

[versed echo]

It isn't

[placid marten]

but the closest

[versed echo]

But that's what was brought up

And F3 is required by the MC speedrunning board

[upbeat tusk]

you guys should make a video where you put the same video on both side
Log and logless
for shit and giggle

[versed echo]

It ain't even optional

You are forced to open F3 and show seed

[placid marten]

im so sad that i delete runs if we get a better one (or the same time)

[versed echo]

Logs in GTFO aren't mandatory

But sure help a lot

[placid marten]

cuz i could just post a 5:34 (or 5:38) without logs vs a 5:40 with logs or 5:34 with logs

side by side

really would like to hear the difference aside from us being happy when we find the key

[upbeat tusk]

it's between

"i got key i got key" vs "holy shit i got key"

[versed echo]

You could easily achieve the same time w/ logs for my R7D1 speedrun too

I didn't even use logs then bc that level is fucked

And I didn't make a keymap

[coral pelican]

i still kinda think it would be valuable to have for levels where it really matters like collection levels
but then, there, where the difference would be way bigger, it's still be hard to actually verify whether or not they did

[placid marten]

yeah

[versed echo]

Time w/ logs and time w/o logs for R7D1 would be virtually the same

[placid marten]

we are currently discussing a way

but checking whether somebody used logs is still an issue

[upbeat tusk]

here's another thought right

let say you guys put up a logless category

[coral pelican]

i feel like
the most you could do would be
say "hey i think you got those things a bit too fast, thus we suspect you for using logs"
and that person gets banned if they just got a bit too lucky

[upbeat tusk]

what's stopping the guy from logs run putting their run on logless

[versed echo]

Nothing but integrity

Which is basically what beep and Beth are relying on

Which doesn't fly w/ us or speedrun.com TOS.

You give us a way to fix detection, then we talk. You have to fix ALL points about it

You can't just "let it slide"

[coral pelican]

unimportant aside
it's strange seeing everyone typing out speedrun.com instead of src like i'm used to seeing

[versed echo]

Didn't watch runs and verify them without reason

[small portal]

Is it even allowed by just relying on integrity, I mean didn't speedrun.com TOS mandates responsibilities?

[placid marten]

many people here dont rly speedrun/watch speedruns etc

so :I they wouldnt rly check what it means

[versed echo]

Either complete no or it is very, very restricted and small

I don't recall the exact wording

But it's there on speedrun TOS.

[untold laurel]

when are you guys going to be done patting eachother on the back

[upbeat tusk]

like you?

[coral pelican]

where's the patting each other on the back

is having discussions and sharing a viewpoint not allowed

[upbeat tusk]

discussion = patting each other back

[placid marten]

just ignore it

i said it before

drama

[small portal]

Yeah we kinda have similar opinions and might just sit in our comfort zone. Please inspire us and give your argument about logs.

[night pebble]

But civilly 🙂

[coral pelican]

trying to be

[upbeat tusk]

just put the logless category up Eva, i beg you or other mod

[versed echo]

We can't just do that

[placid kite]

Justin's Immunity Island is a community server made of GTFO elites with an emphasis on freedom of speech and determination. We look to facilitate high-level team play whilst enforcing a standard of consensual toxicity to build character and tenacity. Players will strengthen both their communication, social, and GTFO skills under a team of authentic Americans.

[night pebble]

I’m learning a lot about speed running gtfo that’s for sure

[narrow mortar]

or just make Any% a complete wasteland where everything goes.

[covert cypress]

ayo

[narrow mortar]

We fixed the problem. We made Any% what it's supposed to be.

[coral pelican]

oh god whats this pasta from it looked familiar

[narrow mortar]

Unleash the boosters as well

[upbeat tusk]

change lawless% back to any%

[versed echo]

More like seeing a clash that shouldn't be happening in the first place :/ I just wish it was more widely understood

[placid marten]

when can we expect you to run

[night pebble]

True, but I’m picking out the solid parts

[placid marten]

naming is something that we can always change lol
not the point tho rn

[night pebble]

I’d love to. But I must warn I still have much to learn lol!

Teach me

[coral pelican]

yeah names are a whole other discussion that i have some opinions on
but it's not that important rn

[versed echo]

Watch my speedrun guides

And Eva's too

[night pebble]

I watched the door one the other day. Very detailed

[versed echo]

Detailed is what I was going for, sweet!

[night pebble]

And upgraded from intern to employee. Very nice

[placid marten]

its about the experience
improving the time and understanding how the run goes

[versed echo]

It's because of the duo R1A1 speedrun I got promoted lol

[coral pelican]

get in vc with them and play chess while resetting for 7 hours straight
like i said, it's about the experience

[night pebble]

I used to love the spear, but I’ve come to use and agree the hammer is ultimately batter

[versed echo]

Eva and I played chess while resetting R1A1 😂

He destroyed me

[coral pelican]

get clapped kiddo

[versed echo]

Yes, hammer is more flexible

Can sprint go brrrrr

[night pebble]

Right? Usually I’d get downed because the spear would slow me down

[covert cypress]

clearly u dont use the spear like i do

[grave path]

STAY WINNING

[night pebble]

Well I was pretty new and still inexperienced so I’m sure that’s true. Gotten a lot better at kiting. Been trying to run the simple levels with bots and then lowering it to soloing. I think I panic too much on waves lol!

Then there’s @placid marten who’s chilling while doing class 4’s

[versed echo]

I nearly had him at one point

Just got so distracted

🥲

[coral pelican]

get clapped kiddo

unrelated

void

why tf do you make your tutorials at 10295:3 aspect ratio

[versed echo]

OKay

So

[coral pelican]

please get a normal ratio like 4:3 thanks

[versed echo]

Adobe is fucking up with me

I'm running a 3440x1440p monitor right?

So I record at that resolution as well

Then, when I edit in Adobe Premiere Pro and use the YT preset, it fucks up the entire sequence

Like, there's a solid black border around all clips

So in the end I made my videos with a 42:19 aspect ratio or something wild

[coral pelican]

does the yt preset include what resolution to render at lol

[versed echo]

Yes

[coral pelican]

that's probably why then :p

[versed echo]

Either YT UHD or HD

Yes, but I had to change the sequence settings as well

Like, every setting regarding clips had to be resized

It was horrible

Discovered it w/ the doorbug tutorial

Looked wayyy too small

In the end, while exporting, I manually swapped the resolution to 3440x1440

So that's why its a weird aspect ratio

It's like 1920x800

Think it is 1920x804 exactly

[coral pelican]

yeah i figured the answer would boil down to "that's what screen i have"
just is so awkward to look at with a non-stupid monitor :p

[versed echo]

Then if you have 3440x1440p, it'll be that

[placid marten]

you know

[versed echo]

It should just have 2 black cinematic bars top bottom right?

[placid marten]

i didnt even realize while on mobile

but on my pc its weird

[versed echo]

At least better than stupid square

Black square

[placid marten]

back to edit

[coral pelican]

solution
record clips at a normal aspect ratio

[versed echo]

I can't

OBS settings only show 1920x720 or some weird ass resolution

[coral pelican]

pretty sure you can type them in manually?

[versed echo]

No

I'll check again here

[coral pelican]

like 99% sure you can

cause i've done that to record 2 2560x1440p monitors together

5120x1440 video file woo

[versed echo]

Shit can't post pictures in here

I'll dm them to you

Like I said, it's fucked

[coral pelican]

image received
it's because you're in the wrong screen lol
set the canvas res in the video tab

[versed echo]

I'm not

Display 1 is my vertical due to HDMI plug in

Display 2 is my OLED w/ DP

[coral pelican]

ma dude
that thing you sent me
is just gonna downscale the canvas
your canvas is set to your monitor size
you can set your canvas to whatever size you want
you could set it to 64x64

[median quarry]

I see you voxy

[versed echo]

It's the same resolutions

[coral pelican]

send me another pic of the video tab lol

[versed echo]

kk

[coral pelican]

bro it's a combo box, means you can also highlight and type in it

[versed echo]

Yea, but I tried that previously and it fucked up bad

[placid marten]

Biggest brain

get smaller monitor

[versed echo]

Like that's where the black box around the clip originated from

[coral pelican]

true eva

[versed echo]

While editing

[coral pelican]

i mean yeah that'll also cause a problem with that

[versed echo]

I got the best monitor just to get frames

[coral pelican]

you'd have to also change the game res

[versed echo]

[placid marten]

We actualy told void that when he showed us what he was gonna get

[versed echo]

HELL NAH

[coral pelican]

just for recording the clips broooooo

[versed echo]

I love my 120 FOV and widescreen

Can see so many enemies

So much map awareness

[coral pelican]

i mean i can understand that lmao

but here's the fun thing

you can change it back when you're done recording

[versed echo]

Ew

No thanks

[coral pelican]

lmao

[versed echo]

I'll grab my clips in 3440x1440

Easy for me

Good for me

[placid marten]

sees them
but doesnt see them

[versed echo]

Can play

[placid marten]

[versed echo]

I DOOOOO

I can now

I have more than 2 FPS now

AND I HAVE MAP AWARENESS

I SWEAR

LESS SKILL ISSUE

[placid marten]

[versed echo]

[coral pelican]

then everything recorded will be 43:18 forever
wiiiiiiiiidddeeeeee

[versed echo]

Its okay

Very cinematic

[coral pelican]

true!

but if you want true cinematic you need a 2.39:1 thing

[versed echo]

Oh shu-

[coral pelican]

looks like your recordings will forever only be slightly cinematic

[versed echo]

Still cinematic

:))

[golden yew]

Only if you knew someone that was a professional video editor to help with aspect ratios and resolutions

[coral pelican]

Kenny why you not make those awesome maps for the newer* levels like you did for r7

[golden yew]

I'll get around to it, busy with IRL stuff

[coral pelican]

Ah fair enough

[golden yew]

They take a lot of effort, couple hours per map

I got the base screenshots for all the levels tho, so I just gotta do the photoshop and illustrator parts

[coral pelican]

Oh jeez wow, I didn't think they'd be that long
Well thank you for them, they're very cool

[golden yew]

Yeah, basically I have to screenshot, stitch, cutout the background, repaint over the map with a clean version, add the outline glow and then add in the clean background. and thats just to get the clean look

Then in illustrator I have to add all my vector graphics, so I made one for every icon on the map (except the ladder ICF with them) and then make sure I got every zone number and area correct, the type of door, and all that

[versed echo]

🥹 well I didn’t uh, really talk to you a lot until recently

[golden yew]

I'm super approachable

[fading snow]

idk which makes that sentence funnier: the image you posted or your pfp on the side.

[indigo quarry]

I know this is from a while ago, but I was reading through the backlog and; do you actually believe that logs are closer to vanilla than seeding? im genuinely confused here, because that seems completely backwards to me

[coral pelican]

i can kinda see that for certain levels tbh (r1a1)
but broadly speaking yeah i don't think i can really agree with that either

especially collection levels

i can also see it being true for levels where logs don't really help, but that's sort of a given i think

[golden yew]

can you explain this further?

[indigo quarry]

I think it is simply that in two of these scenarios, players know where everything is, and in one of them, players don't. Using logs and constantly resetting is kind of just like a more time consuming version of seeding, where the seed is random, but you don't have to play any that aren't perfect

[golden yew]

Yes, but how is seeding closer to vanilla than using logs? Unless I misunderstood

[coral pelican]

misunderstood

[indigo quarry]

oh, no, I meant that logs are closer to seeding than vanilla

[coral pelican]

Theres also a bigger difference between seeded and logs compared to logs and normaly gameplay.
^ from eva's message

[golden yew]

Ahh I see, yeah they way it was written I didn't have enough context

But yeah completely seeded runs would have little to no RNG, because even enemy placements are seeded. The only thing that would be semi random is alarm wave spawning areas and enemy composition of those waves.

[indigo quarry]

it just culls the RNG a little bit :)

[golden yew]

It would turn into a seed hunt at that stage, because the person that can find the seed with the fastest scans would win

if it was some how configurable what seed you ran, then everyone would run the same seed and the leaderboard times would basically be all the same

and I think you still need RNG to make speedrunning interesting, just like look at Minecraft for example

[indigo quarry]

people speedrun minecraft seeds all the time tho

[versed echo]

Yes, because it's built into the game

[indigo quarry]

not that gtfo has a big enough community to justify categories for each individual seed that someone finds, but still

using logs isn't built into the game, but everyone's fine with those it seems

[versed echo]

GTFO doesn't allow seeding, period

[coral pelican]

i mean, that's not strictly true
to also look at minecraft, set seed is still pretty competitive cause of those things that are variable
and human ability is variable enough to make that difference

[golden yew]

Set Seed Minecraft still has RNG for Chest loot, and dragon perch and of course mob spawning

[indigo quarry]

is this a troll

[coral pelican]

well yeah that's kinda the point lol

[versed echo]

There is no difference in log runs and no log runs besides time saved in resetting. You're still going to "hunt" for the best "seed" (i.e key spawns, etc.)

[coral pelican]

how is that a troll?

[versed echo]

In both, you're still heavily reliant in RNG

[indigo quarry]

there's literally a mod for seeding

[coral pelican]

is there? interesting
i wasn't aware of that lol
but i think he means unmodded

[versed echo]

Game rule 4, no game modifications.

Same goes with MC

All speedrun.com boards have that rule

[indigo quarry]

are we seriously not counting wardenmapper as a game modification?

[versed echo]

It's not?

[coral pelican]

yes?

what file does it modify?

[versed echo]

If you watched my video, I explained it

WardenMapper doesn't modify any file, rather, reads a file

[golden yew]

I believe modding is classified as directly writing changes to the game and forcing the version number to change

[versed echo]

You can make the argument that Notepad++ reads a file

[indigo quarry]

it is clearly a huge advantage

[versed echo]

Logs, correct?

[indigo quarry]

perhaps game modification was the improper term

[indigo quarry]

yes

[versed echo]

What advantage do you gain?

[coral pelican]

okay hold on

[versed echo]

Let's hear your point

[indigo quarry]

knowing where everything is???

[coral pelican]

i don't think anyone can argue that logs don't present a massive advantage for collection levels

[versed echo]

If you ran the level a million times, you would have a general sense where everything spawns

Some levels also have a limited amount of locker spawns where a key can only generate in so much

So w/o logs, you achieve the same "seed"

A run w/o logs would be running to the most optimal locker, seeing it's not there, and resetting

A run w/ logs does the same thing, but just earlier

It's not making the game faster

Collection levels obviously are differed

It's going to be harder to remember where things spawn

But for something like keys, HSU, cargo, there is no difference

[indigo quarry]

is this not what seeding does?

[golden yew]

No

You have to remember, seeding seeds everything, except the 2 things I mentioned

[indigo quarry]

if you happen across the perfect seed, you can restart your game 100 billion times in order to find it again, seeding does the same thing but just earlier
is this not a similar argument to voidspace's?

[coral pelican]

this is why i said i don't disagree with the vanillas - logs -- seeding thing from earlier for r1a1
cause on levels like that, logs is essentially resetting until you get a key+hsu placement equivalent to a seeded run

[versed echo]

Seeding requires modding

GTFO has no support for a seed-input generation, if that makes sense

And even trying seeding is very, very difficult

High barrier to entry

[indigo quarry]

barring that, are they not extremely similar?

[versed echo]

No, because one removes nearly 90% of RNG, the other doesn't

By simplying alternating enemy spawns, runs would be 0 action

No enemies, all down to scans

[golden yew]

I see your taking it to the extreme, Yes technically there is a 'limited' number of seeds, so if you played every single one of them, you would eventually double back to a previous played seed. But for practical reasons, it would be physically impossible for a single person to actually see all those seeds

[versed echo]

GTFO also updated seeding mechanisms with the release of ALT:// rundownds

[indigo quarry]

yes, it is an extreme, but I am just trying to highlight the parallels between my argument for seeds and voidspace's argument for logs

[versed echo]

The only parallel that exists is finding the best spawns

However, it's a weak link

Because in seeding, you can alter where everything is

In logs, you cannot

[coral pelican]

i lost track of what the discussion here was tbh

[indigo quarry]

you can, by restarting over and over and over, as people do for 6 hour livestreams

[versed echo]

But you can't replicate it, aka input the seed

You'll be able to roll the level again

[coral pelican]

you can replicate the most important part

[versed echo]

But you won't be able to force it to come back

Not sure if I'm making sense

Hopefully I am

[coral pelican]

would you argue that item placement is not the most important part of level generation?

[indigo quarry]

what difference does it make? people are just going to keep restarting until they spot the perfect seed again

[versed echo]

Yet that perfect seed won't be perfect and won't be the same

Because scan RNG

Enemy spawns

Anything that can't be edited vs edited

You can craft your own seed, technically

That's why

[indigo quarry]

so if scans and enemy spawns were randomized in seeding, you would be okay with it?

[versed echo]

They wouldn't ever be

[indigo quarry]

this is a hypothetical

[coral pelican]

hypotheticals my dude

[versed echo]

If hypothetical, it's still a no

How would it be implemented?

[coral pelican]

not the point

[indigo quarry]

still a hypothetical

[coral pelican]

if you could seed item placement, but not enemys+scans etc
would you be okay with that

[versed echo]

Then there isn't really a discussion

Because that defeats the entire purpose of seeding

At least, that's how I understand it

[coral pelican]

if i understood right
the point was just that
if item placement could be seeded
then it would just be a faster version of logs resetting

[golden yew]

If hypothetically there was a in game tool (not modded) that allowed you to set the key and other objective items (like cells, HSU) to a specific locker/location for every run. I would be somewhat okay with that

[covert cypress]

team theres too many hypotheticals i keep thinking of ben shapiro

[versed echo]

If it wasn't modded, it would be completely fine

[indigo quarry]

what I want to know is, if seeding did what logs did, but faster, would you be okay with it
again, I know that this is not something that will ever happen, it is a hypothetical

[versed echo]

It would have its category

[wind cliff]

modifying your session seed without modding

wow would be crazy

is that existed

[versed echo]

No, I wouldn't

The verification team wouldn't allow it

Again, kinda links back to, yknow, inplementation

[coral pelican]

i think this right here is generally people's point

[golden yew]

Modifying = modding
????

[versed echo]

I know it's hypothetical

But there isn't a way to circumvent around the 2 points

[wind cliff]

it used to be session seed was based on time you started games

you change effect the seed

without any game code

i mean you still probs could

if we knew how they seeded the session seed generator

[coral pelican]

use autohotkey to start the game at the exact same times every time, ez seeding

[indigo quarry]

what about other external ways of changing the game, like bhop scripts or host pausing

[versed echo]

Macros are allowed for bhops

[indigo quarry]

and pausing?

[versed echo]

There's a specific rule for macros

[golden yew]

You know theres a reason why I didn't like that set seed bug and never talked about it

[coral pelican]

what's host pausing

[versed echo]

Pausing is just a waste of time?

You'd be losing time in the run itself

I don't see the advantage there?

[coral pelican]

is that that thing i've seen videos of in media lately

[indigo quarry]

void, have you seen the videos in media?

[versed echo]

It's a disadvantage for someone to pause, drop out, wifi bad, etc.

[wind cliff]

yeah true but at the same time

it used to exist

[golden yew]

God if set seed bug was discovered by the general player base, the game would have been fucked

[versed echo]

Which?

There are a lot

[indigo quarry]

idk if this works, but this one https://discordapp.com/channels/408196129470152705/585063132553281556/1069045217958842560

[golden yew]

I know, I experience the set seed bug multiple times in R3D1 speedruns way back in the day

[versed echo]

What's the issue behind it?

[wind cliff]

anyways there are ways to seed without modding

[versed echo]

I don't think it was ever specified

[coral pelican]

if doing it was faster than not, would you be okay with it?

[wind cliff]

so idk if modding should be an arbitrary line

[indigo quarry]

the tank isn't moving at all?

[versed echo]

Believe it had something to do with dsync?

[indigo quarry]

it basically has no ai?

[versed echo]

No, I meant how to cause it

[indigo quarry]

oh, I cant say that

[versed echo]

Like, I heard he unplugged his wifi or something

[coral pelican]

server rules?

[versed echo]

Idk

Im sure that's not the true reason

[indigo quarry]

all I can say is that is is vanilla

[covert cypress]

he definitely did not unplug his wifi LOL

[versed echo]

Idk that's one of the rumors around here

So I haven't gotten a clue

[wind cliff]

no

[covert cypress]

i will not say anything else but

[wind cliff]

i need to know

it is such a good clip

[golden yew]

Without back patching you cant set seed anymore

[indigo quarry]

it has to do with alt +tabbing, but my point is that it is completely external and doesn't modify the game, should it be allowed?

[wind cliff]

how do they make the random seed. idk what it is based on anymore

[versed echo]

We'd ask for game files and sort from there

[golden yew]

Do I look like I made the bug fix?

[wind cliff]

no.... unless you where doc red the entire time

[indigo quarry]

I'm the guy who did it, I can assure you that its not modded

[weary oriole]

Is there a way to turn my 3 use tool into a 4 use tool if I reset enough? (Asking for a friend)

[versed echo]

Yes, but I'd still ask for game files if you ever submitted a run like that

[wind cliff]

here we go again

[versed echo]

Makes no difference

[coral pelican]

wait, the entire game files?

[golden yew]

[Comment Redacted]

[versed echo]

It's an anomaly, so must be looked into

[indigo quarry]

if no modifications were found, would you still accept the run?

[versed echo]

Yes

[versed echo]

Yea

[coral pelican]

i don't think that'd be kosher lol
wouldn't that count as piracy

[versed echo]

Though don't know what category that would be in

So maybe we'd reject it

Idk

[wind cliff]

it would be in lawless

[versed echo]

Okay then yea

It would go in lawless

It is a major bug it seems too

So fits perfectly

[indigo quarry]

ok cool

thats all i wanted to know

[versed echo]

No, because mods reserve the right for game files

And all the verifiers have the game already

[coral pelican]

i mean, sure, but sending the entire game's files is still, yknow, uploading an entire game online

[versed echo]

Technically piracy is illegal

[golden yew]

Look one of the reasons I don't like the set seed bug that used to exist was due to how TERRIBLE it was. Quit the game everytime, rejoin the lobby and drop in. like bruhh adding so much extra time and hassle. But the enemy placements were also the same, and you could memorize where all the resources were. Plus it wasn't the same seed for every single person. So someone could just have a god first set seed, whilst other people didn't

[versed echo]

Doubt anyone on the verification team would pirate it

We're not going to ask for .exe file

We'll ask for the major bulk

Including logs

[coral pelican]

that might work ig, idk laws towards that stuff lol

whatever, is besides the point i suppose

[fading snow]

for the people that would speedrun before using logs was a thing would you actually just reset every time you got an objective item that wasn't in the optimal location? and if it was like a hormone mission how many had to be unoptimal for you to reset? Did you even reset?

(@ me in reply plz)

[versed echo]

Kenny and Eva definitely have experience with that

Some of the others are rarely present

And others are just gone

[wind cliff]

we did when bread and i started

e1 lawless

he is here

wesley came

[vernal glen]

it really depends but yeh speedrunning has mostly been a lot of resets

[versed echo]

the one and only

top 11 trackmania player

[vernal glen]

one thing for example thats really important to the other group is that on hard levels you often aren't running optimal

you are safing in certain ways so you can actually survive

this means that a run with worse spawns can be faster if you safe less

so for those levels you dont necessarily reset as often

but again depends

if there's a massive diff very early on

you just reset and get the good one instead of the bad one

like if u wanna use R2E1 just imagine that you start in the 2nd zone

you would not consider the terminal at all

just pull one of the blood doors

you didn't reset on the hard levels as often only because its too hard to let more runs go to waste

[fading snow]

that makes sense. thank you for the responses.

[vernal glen]

i even think that the hard levels are still hard enough that if 2 teams are both willing to use logs it would be more skillful due to both teams getting consistent good spawns so the time save comes down exactly to safing less or possibly a brain game of just having faster routing

[golden yew]

Since R2 it was basically just reset, run to the point where the run continue and if the objective wasn't there, reset repeat

[ionic halo]

My experience was mainly R7A1 on that one.
Yes at some point the run became so optimised that having the wrong card spot even without logs was an instant reset, Except that you lost 2 to 3 min each time.

R6A1 was worse with the only viable times able to be done with one specific spot in one of the two zones (It decreased dramatically the chance of any run going through)

[vernal glen]

and the clear advantage thing is a very mute point because i can literally watch tons of wr runs on many games and yes generally if it's not the most boring run ever they will likely do things you wouldn't normally do that will give them an advantage

im rly sorry for the skilled players but yes speedruns often aren't just how good you are at the game in its normal state

[fading snow]

very true, but there should be a space for them. pure skill, no bugs, no external info.

[ionic halo]

Many "hard"runs are already that

[vernal glen]

yeh but then you'll have to accept that once a run is good enough

you will get rng compositions that can NOT beat a previous record

[ionic halo]

They're not optimised enough that any spawn will not matter

See r7b3 where you constantly live on the edge and the keycard spawns are less important than actually managing to finish the run

[vernal glen]

you're only making the better times more realistic by using the info the game gives you

very cool that ppl made the point of you make the run with the cards you're dealt but it's simply wrong once a good enough run has been achieved

also is it really external if its a file the game creates

or does the external thing ppl keep talking about still refer to the wrong information of reading files

your operating system can read files

you can do this directly from the commandline

you do not need to install anything extra to be able to read files

you could install something that makes it prettier, easier to read, parses it

but the info is already available to you

[upbeat tusk]

we're in a time loop

[versed echo]

Like I've always been saying, it's first party already

GTFO is the 3rd party

The game already gives you info

It's up to you to read it and interpret it

That's the concept of logs itself

[vernal glen]

we use "external" files all the time

for maps

cuz each zone has its set containers

there's plenty of info you can store yourself that will help you

but you'll store it in an external file

and then read the file to get your info back

[upbeat tusk]

you could write note to use it in the run later

speedrunner do that all the time, it just that, the game write that note FOR you

[fading snow]

it's not that reading the files isn't possible, it's that it shouldn't be acceptable. third-party, first-party, i don't really care. being able to see the spawns without in-game finding them feels against the nature of speedruns where dealing with the rng is the challenge. SAVE FOR SEEDED RUNS, where we don't have that. while it's perfectly fine to read the logs it isn't something I view as in-line with the game.

like in contrast, people say ladder foam is broken but that's an in-game mechanic that isn't intended but can be used. you can stumble across that. reading the logs, to me at least, is in contrast to the spirit of a run. for me, i draw the line at anything that requires you to leave the game itself, but others (who have obv gone through the pain of probably 100s of resets, if not more) are fully justified in wanting a method of more consistent times. they are attempting to create the closest thing to a seeded run basically.

[vernal glen]

the point is that dealing with the rng isn't the challenge of this game

[versed echo]

Technically we don't know if ladder foam is intended or not

[upbeat tusk]

so if i use a notepad to remind myself to take a left at a specific corner is bad?

[versed echo]

We'll have to ask the devs that

[vernal glen]

its not a rogue game

[versed echo]

In every other speedrunning board, glitchless category still contains small minor glitches and external sources as well

[vernal glen]

i think even back in R1 kenny tab out the game

for the hsu list

lol

[versed echo]

lmao

[upbeat tusk]

you can run the game without reading log just fine, it will be identical to the guys who read logs file

[fading snow]

no. but knowing you have to take a left because the key is in the left zone and not the right before even finding out, in my opinion, is.

[upbeat tusk]

no, you memorize it

[versed echo]

Even w/o logs, you would come to the same conclusion

You don't need terminal

[upbeat tusk]

you know the key can spawn there already because you run the game 100 of times

[versed echo]

You just need to guess/roll for it

^^^

[vernal glen]

its purely achieving better times quicker

[coral pelican]

while i see your point
all it instead results in
is you go left anyway, cause the key spawning left is faster
and then it's not there, and you reset

[vernal glen]

we skip through a bunch of times that would have sucked

[upbeat tusk]

^ there we go

people that speedrun game will memorize the rng

[fading snow]

i was referencing (i think it's) R7A1 where you don't know if the key to the checkpoint door is in zone 46 or 47.

[upbeat tusk]

and will stick you the fastest route

[versed echo]

It doesn't matter

[fading snow]

unless you always just check left cause that's fastest.

[versed echo]

Not necessarily

There's a good key in 47

You just choose what zone by preference

[upbeat tusk]

if the fastest is to go left, then most speedrunner will go left

[versed echo]

Then you roll for the closest locker

[vernal glen]

you get free terminal time on R7A1

[ionic halo]

it is in fact not a time loss, because you check during the HSU scan

[coral pelican]

then you figure out which side is more likely to have a good key
then just go there over and over

[vernal glen]

you can check zone for free

[ionic halo]

you know at least the zone

[vernal glen]

FREE

[upbeat tusk]

you either reset 3 seconds after you pressed drop
or you reset after 5 mins of running

[coral pelican]

i mean, yes
but then
take a level identical to r7a1
except you aren't forced to sit at a terminal for x amount of time

[ionic halo]

Well then, there is R6A1

or technically

used to be R6A1

[vernal glen]

but yeh imagine easy level and random guy gets 1/1000 spawn and didn't actually make any significant mistake

if no logs

[ionic halo]

there was one optimal spot you'd always go for

[coral pelican]

soon™️ to be ALT://R6A1

[vernal glen]

no one sane will try to beat him

[ionic halo]

regardless of it being there or not

and reset if you don't find it there

[fading snow]

this is true and why i can't decide where i stand on this argument. my brain doesn't understand only running for optimal location and resetting but ig that's the nature of a speedrun. nvm nvm. for the third time today i've been convinced again.

[coral pelican]

i can absolutely 100% see the argument for collection levels

[versed echo]

It's probably cause you haven't tried

[coral pelican]

cause i doubt anyone would actually successfully reroll a collection level for optimal spawns

[versed echo]

Try speedrunnning

Then tell us

Join the community

[upbeat tusk]

we can't give you a better answer because there is no better answer right now

[coral pelican]

good spawns sure but still

[vernal glen]

the collection levels were very clearly avoided prior to logs

[upbeat tusk]

^ try speedrun any game

[fading snow]

how join? (and what if my times are abysmal?)

[versed echo]

So?

You'll improve

Just run fast

Ez

Then incoporate tech

[fading snow]

wait genuine question since everyone here is about that SPEED. how do i go fast and manage my stamina because i am constantly out of breath.

[versed echo]

Sliding mechanism

Use slide tech

[coral pelican]

run on a treadmill every so often, your stamina will increase in no time

[fading snow]

i do slide. i still am just always 110+ pulse

[ionic halo]

For example, R7B1 Collection case can not be predicted by logs, and you have to reset around 8 minutes into the run if the spot is not optimal. So no one wants to run this level (and also the level having a memory leak doesn't help)

It's 1 in 8 something chance

[versed echo]

There's gonna be another video about it coming out

I'm just taking a break rn

There's specific timings you need to match

[vernal glen]

we did run R7B1 a couple times

[coral pelican]

i would appreciate that video as well cause i just kinda wing the sliding and don't know if i'm doing it any good

[vernal glen]

heart breaking resets so far into the level

and u HAVE to

[fading snow]

Huge. I will wait for the bhop video and the slide video then. I watched the doorbug one and still can't do it :)

[fading snow]

same....

[coral pelican]

okay so
what's bhopping in current version
is it same as before just like more precise or something?

[versed echo]

Like what category?

If so, it's being determined

Currently however it's stuck in any%

[coral pelican]

no
what is it lol

[versed echo]

Oh

[vernal glen]

a jump keeps the momentum you started the jump with

[versed echo]

Wesley, be my guest

^^^

[coral pelican]

oh i think

i see where this is going

[vernal glen]

and you can chain them to permanently keep the momentum going

[fading snow]

tap space or hold space?

[versed echo]

Bhops require even more precise timing

[coral pelican]

so you slide to get higher speed then jump at perfect time or something?

[ionic halo]

I'd argue starting on Training is the best way to get into it, no RNG, just you and understanding different techniques/optimising your pathing/dealing with enemies at small stakes to improve your time (towards the mythical 4:08)

[versed echo]

To the point you basically have to macro it

[vernal glen]

you can chain them by just spamming or by actually timing it precisely

[fading snow]

(also my timings must be ABYSMAL cause i always slow down till i'm just hoping 2 inches forward at a time)

[vernal glen]

and dont get hung up on the macro thing because you shouldn't restrict hardware

change your perception of a jump input

it doesn't have to be difficult to spam it

[fading snow]

what if..... we rebind jump to mousewheel down and infinity scroll?

[versed echo]

That works too

Referring to wesley

[vernal glen]

the macro, just like the tools for logs is so you can use it without much bs

[fading snow]

but is bhopping only a speed thing now or does it still not alert?

[vernal glen]

xd

we never even talk about that but for client it wont alert

[coral pelican]

epic

[fading snow]

0.0

[vernal glen]

it never registers as a landing on host side

i mean you dont insta alert

it behaves the same as if you were to walk

so you CAN still alert

[coral pelican]

so like old bhopping but only for client?

[fading snow]

how do i make dauda host?

[vernal glen]

what fps do u get

[fading snow]

110-160

(or 90 if i allow myself shadows)

[vernal glen]

probably not doing it right yet then

[fading snow]

wdym?

[vernal glen]

your timing i mean

[fading snow]

like the bhop timings are off?

[vernal glen]

yes

[fading snow]

i see i see

[vernal glen]

you get slowdown as a bug seemingly if low fps

[fading snow]

yeah i'm notoriously bad at movement even though it's the one thing i've always wanted to get good at (across games)

[vernal glen]

its rly epic in some games

[fading snow]

it is. the only game i got decent (movement wise) in was Rocket League but who even cares about that game anymore

although i've attempted in cs, celeste, and valorant (not really much base movement here).

[placid marten]

@fading snow
Yesnt. The more optimized the run got the more you reset. (Which is btw what we do with logs aswell)

[placid marten]

Tbf in this level youd still have a 50% chance for the run to just not work
Then a 10 sec time loss on 1st key

Then a possible 30 sec time loss on 2nd key. Thats massive considering the time is down to below 12 minutes

[golden yew]

I discovered a correlation in R1 with how the terminal listed HSU's and their position in the level. It wasn't fully consistent, but there were a few HSU's which were static, so if the objective HSU number was in one of those slots, I knew from the first terminal where it was. https://pasteboard.co/Me03VgdQIL9i.png

I think I might be the oldest speedrunner for GTFO still around

[placid marten]

If we dont allow logs

It just goes back to the same running principles just that every runner wastes more time of their life per bad run. (I dont consider resetting itself wasting time, but spending more time on it with no difference in the run is a weird take to want)

[placid marten]

you can check that one ahead of time cuz are stuck on a terminal

Youve always run both zones anyway. But both zones only have roughly 2 viable keys. So if its neither of those you reset

[placid marten]

We are actually working on guides for that

But due to… obvious reasons. We didnt get much progress yesterday

[fading snow]

I kept forgetting my stance and then re-remembering as people reconvinced me but I'm pretty sure where I stand now is logs is fine for any mission that isn't uplinks or collections. the fact that runners just go to the most optimal spot regardless and reset or continue based on if the item is there, means that logs just make that process faster.

I was getting confused because I assumed logs would just be used to find the object, not see if it was in the optimal location. for example if key was in third locker of the room rather than first but you guys seem to just reset if it's not in the most optimal spot (at least in the less difficult missions).

[placid marten]

Man cant believe it. All these people arguing how great seeded would be and they dont even run the only seeded level we have smh

[placid marten]

Damn kenny 73 years old

[fading snow]

in spite of my stance i still want to see r2d2 done in one uplink cycle.

[misty relic]

I mean sometimes there can be several locations that are quite close in how good they are, in that case it would be true that using the logs is helping you "find" the item and go to the right container

[placid marten]

For uplinks themselves they dont change anything unless you do uplink skip

Which we can easily just „forbid“ from the lowest category

Gather missions, as always. I can see. But these missions were also avoided by speedrunners before for obvious reasons

[fading snow]

yeah i was referencing logs for uplink skip

[ionic halo]

I personally (my opinion) think that uplink/reactor skip should definitely be bumped up a category and is definitely detectable (due to the speed they do the thing)

[placid marten]

R2d2? Thats not an uplink

[fading snow]

sorry

reactor

mb

same difference really

[placid marten]

eh theres some other stuff

you cant brute force past a code wave

so you have to do all 10 waves

[fading snow]

NOOOOOOO

MY DREAM

nvm