Actually my seed would just magically have no enemies
#gtfo-speed-running
covert cypress
vernal glen
skill based
covert cypress
Crazy seed definitely legit
placid marten
The category thing was litteraly, what i was trying to talk about
But appearantly we wont ever catch cheaters so wed better just merge it into one 
covert cypress
I don’t think you should worry about cheaters tbh team
vernal glen
just allow as many things as possible in a way that still makes ppl wanna run
covert cypress
If people will wanna cheat they’ll probably find other ways to cheat that aren’t just bhopping while person isn’t looking
versed echo
Tbh I doubt anyone would try
covert cypress
and I don’t think anyone. Currently running is gonna cheat
versed echo
The board isn’t as big as others
versed echo
Eva do you hate us now 
vernal glen
placid marten
i find it funny
I talk about possibly merging any% and restricted% to reduce clutter
People:
- uplink skip, blackhops and stuff shouldnt be mandatory!
I propose making any% more distinctive. Moving a minority of runs into any% by making current restricted the same minus uplink skip
People:
- but !!! Cheaters
But!!! Circumvention?
versed echo
placid marten
i wanna have actual talks
i dont mind some trolling
but be serious sometimes
Cuz otherwise you just waste your, my and others time
versed echo
Ladder foam tho
Why
ladder foam + deactivate alarms
What if that’s dev intention?
vernal glen
the devs need to give up on enemy vs enemy collision already 
they either have to push or small pathways are cheese with foam
what is the intention
versed echo
I mean, it could be
placid marten
very much a doubt on ladder foam
versed echo
Ladder foam more noticeable then deactivate alarm
placid marten
deactivate alarm(s) is arguable
vernal glen
also why deactivate alarms as the rule
thats not rly the problem
its all the places they chuck stopallwaves for no good reason
placid marten
would it be a problem if its in any%?
versed echo
I just feel like both go into restricted
placid marten
and i feel like you think im deadset on that
you feel
we need to know what most of the speedrun community feels
placid marten
which atm encompasses around 15 actually active people
discussions fall short
make a poll
if need be for every single glitch thats in contention (i made a comment in verifiyer chat for that already)
vernal glen
if you dont allow deactivate alarms during an extra alarm then i feel like you cant allow uplink during an extra alarm either
and i dont want that :))
placid marten
But is ladder foam really a glitch?
yes
Unless you think the devs intended for it to be a mechanic
doesnt mean it cant be viable in restricted
versed echo
To me it kinda makes sense.
If you had a human stuck on a ladder irl, no one else would be able to pass
placid marten
it just means its up for contention
versed echo
So who knows
placid marten
since its very gamechanging
placid marten
To me it kinda makes sense.
If you had a human stuck on a ladder irl, no one el...
Real life logic in games
Tbf this is mostly going off what we checked was the definition for it
versed echo
I’m not saying everything is based irl, but I do know some games base some mechanics from what we see
vernal glen
that sounds racial
placid marten
the point is, if enough runners deem it to game changing for restricted that it can be moved
versed echo
That or we could ask devs
vernal glen
and then they add a tile with specifically a one way entry that only 1 sleeper can fit
and then its no longer ladder foam
misty relic
imo foaming a ladder seems like too intuitive of an action to move a speedrun out of a restricted category
versed echo
Well if devs said it’s a normal game mechanic then it is covered in all categories yea?
So not necessary to have a poll if devs confirm
placid marten
Well if devs said it’s a normal game mechanic then it is covered in all categori...
Depends on the speedgame
round kite
imo foaming a ladder seems like too intuitive of an action to move a speedrun ou...
Isn’t this like saying using triple sentry is lawless because it kills entire waves with no enemies getting by?
versed echo
Depends on the speedgame
Is it? So if something was a normal game mechanic and wasn’t allowed to be used in a category, wouldn’t that just be dumb? No offense to anybody
misty relic
Isn’t this like saying using triple sentry is lawless because it kills entire wa...
Uh, sure. Sounds like we agree?
round kite
I confused
placid marten
Is it? So if something was a normal game mechanic and wasn’t allowed to be used ...
Nah it just rly depends on how much it changes the runs approach
multiple speedgames do this for intended (or accepted as intended) mechanics
misty relic
I think ladder foam would be fine in restricted
round kite
Ohhhhh
round kite
Lol
placid marten
IT WAS NEVER MY POINT THAT IT WASNT
round kite
I think ladder foam would be fine in restricted
It is. And I agree lol
misty relic
I'm not arguing with you Eva I am just giving my 2 cents on the discussion at large
placid marten
Yes
Thanks
and this is not rly doable in a random chat convo
especially with times zones
covert cypress
anyone wanna play among us
covert cypress
ok but to actually contribute to the convo
I’m a little lost on all the categories but my 2 cents would be like
Have one category where all glitches are allowed or something
covert cypress
One where some are (I’ll elaborate in a sec) and obvs one where none are
For the one where some are
I think stuff like blackhops, ladder foam is fine
Deactivate alarms as well I guess? Idk really
placid marten
void will setup a poll later
covert cypress
uplink skip I don’t know anything about so I can’t comment
But honestly if you’re speedrunning maps with uplinks then my deepest condolences
placid marten
regarding pure glitchless
It will still entertain some things that arent just base line vanilla.
But rn its probably only standard terminal skip
languid narwhal
Please stop calling them blackhops they're called beephops because I'm more important
languid narwhal
I've been disregarded how can my pride handle this torture
languid narwhal
This is how chicken got set as the public wiki name
placid marten
regarding what goes where from the stuff thats in dispute rn
languid narwhal
Stop believing in polls
round kite
Please put black hops in lawless. I don’t wanna run every single level again from r7
covert cypress
glitchless being actually glitchless is so boring because like there’s so many things that could be considered glitches that we all use so
round kite
There’s still plenty of levels with no runs
covert cypress
no more reload cancelling!!!
languid narwhal
I got a 40 minute r2d2 with gerzhopping
covert cypress
LOL
languid narwhal
You're telling me i can't submit it??
placid marten
Beth
I already said that ^^
covert cypress
Yeah I’m agreeing eva
placid marten
Please put black hops in lawless. I don’t wanna run every single level again fro...
i doubt its gonna go into restricted lol
round kite
glitchless being actually glitchless is so boring because like there’s so many t...
Reload canceling is a major glitch 😎
covert cypress
yup
languid narwhal
How do I reload cancel the hel shotgun
covert cypress
this is where the bullpup rifle really shines
round kite
How do I reload cancel the hel shotgun
Ask it nicely
placid marten
this is where the bullpup rifle really shines
sudden category change
Can only run glitchless with bullpup and PR
covert cypress
I do that on a daily basis
round kite
Bullpup PR should be it’s own category
languid narwhal
You can not use auto fire on the pr it is an exploit because I said so
covert cypress
isn’t burst cancelling also an exploit beep
So are you just not able to fire the gun
languid narwhal
Yes
covert cypress
Sick
round kite
Bullpup PR should be it’s own category
I’m gonna start soloing speedrun with only bullpup and PR and call it it’s own category
languid narwhal
It's used to see shadow enemies
placid marten
im waitinf for you to solo speed r1a1 at all
but you cant forget spear and shotgun sentry bread
round kite
I got you
placid marten
otherwise it wont count
covert cypress
Silent shotgun sentry goes hard
languid narwhal
Can he backbeepbouncegerz hop if he brings the spear
round kite
I will roll for b hsu
languid narwhal
Silent shotgun sentry goes hard
This is a feature and is allowed
eternal dust
:/
covert cypress
yup
placid marten
Also @covert cypress
Watch Voidspaces guide on terminal skips. He explains uplink skip there
just so you know what it is should you want to put down a vote
covert cypress
yea but what if I don’t wanna
languid narwhal
I should watch his video on door cheesing
covert cypress
I mean I don’t care about uplinks tbh eva people can use the skips if they want
round kite
I should watch his video on door cheesing
Watch my lawless eval instead
languid narwhal
Just use wemod
placid marten
I mean I don’t care about uplinks tbh eva people can use the skips if they want
you can skip it then i guess
covert cypress
omg you can’t say that beep
oblique frost
languid narwhal
You cant make me disappear
languid narwhal
Sorry for saying the gtfo slur 😢😢😢😱😱
covert cypress
I don’t think arguing dev intention is ever really the play especially in speedrunning lol
placid marten
I don’t think arguing dev intention is ever really the play especially in speedr...
i never said it is
its pretty huge
covert cypress
Never said you did either
Just like rank the strengths of the uh
Different techs
placid marten
again
Watch voids video segment of it (can skip through) he has timers on the 3 code uplink and 5 code with and without
placid marten
Just like rank the strengths of the uh
oof
placid marten
uhh
ladderfoam is either uber broken (r2e1) or a minor tech
covert cypress
You use a resource for ladderfoam tho
placid marten
uplink skips are huge same for blackhops (beephops 
)
deactivate alarms is pretty minor
languid narwhal
Isn't stamina a resource
vernal glen
You use a resource for ladderfoam tho
i use a resource for the uplinks too
my health
languid narwhal
You use stamina for beephops
covert cypress
not when you gerzbackbeepbounceblackhop
placid marten
Terminal skip is mostly ignorable
At best its a 3second time save. Unless you use it for terminal skip
placid marten
You use a resource for ladderfoam tho
up to 4 min of no enemies is insane tho
covert cypress
it is
placid marten
especially since you can get that effect with ~60% foam
placid marten
It's weird to disregard any kind of time save
We
Arent
Disregarding
covert cypress
it could go into lawless then
placid marten
its for which categories it goes into
covert cypress
I feel like a lot of these things are gonna be stronger in certain areas tho
languid narwhal
Seems like your categorizing it as either legitimate or illegitimate
Even if it's not the case
placid marten
well yea
Uplink skip is bad in r2a1 
placid marten
Seems like your categorizing it as either legitimate or illegitimate
nope
we are discussing whether its lawless, any or restricted
round kite
Suffer
placid marten
but yeah
My personal vote (with 3 categories) would probably be smth like
Blackhops: lawless or any
Uplink skip: any or restricted
Terminal skip: restricted
Deactivate alarms: any or restricted
Ladderfoam: any or restricted
round kite
xD
vernal glen
placid marten
but yeah
My personal vote (with 3 categories) would probably be smth like
Blac...
. @covert cypress
Since you wanted a „ranking“ i guess? Thats probably the closest
covert cypress
I don’t think there’s a timeline where ladderfoam should be in restricted tbh
placid marten
Generally in their use case the most powerful/biggest time safe is
Ladderfoam. But really rare and uses ressources
After that its blackhops
After that uplink skip
then a big gap to deactivate alarms
And at the bottom terminal skip
vernal glen
the way i see the categories is
restricted: i will go out of my way to avoid speedy things to make the level harder so the run becomes more epic
any: i go fast using everything i have simple access to
lawless: i go out of my way to set up things so the run can be as fast as possible
versed echo
I’ll read uplink connect ip next time for you wesley
covert cypress
I agree with that pretty much wesley
versed echo
And maybe instead of calling it speedy uplink terminal maybe I should’ve called it uplink terminal skip
Sounds much more technical
vernal glen
you can put boosters in any if we get a public tool that gives us boosters 
placid marten
And maybe instead of calling it speedy uplink terminal maybe I should’ve called ...
😐
placid marten
boosters should stay in lawless imo
versed echo
Ofc I had to be brain dead
vernal glen
yeh eva you should have also stayed up til like 8am
versed echo
(Probably cuz i pinged him on accident lmao)
placid marten
the way i see the categories is
restricted: i will go out of my way to avoid spe...
As i see it this says:
Deactivate alarms/uplink skip/blackhops in any
Terminal skip in restricted
(Unsure about ladder foam here)
?
i saw kennys message when i woke up
versed echo
As i see it this says:
Deactivate alarms/uplink skip/blackhops in any
Terminal...
I think it’s more of:
Ladder foam + deactivate alarms -> restricted
Uplink skip + bhops + terminal skip + uplink skip -> any
In Wesley’s context
“Avoid speedy things” would be all glitches
placid marten
terminal skip itself in any% makes no sense imo
placid marten
make the poll
versed echo
I cant
placid marten
people can voice their opinion
versed echo
I’m in class
vernal glen
the bhops can be an exception just because it has such a frequent use that you could consider it annoying
placid marten
and we work it out
vernal glen
but then again you have sliding too
which aint much different if you rly think about it
placid marten
tbf sliding has a way way bigger window
vernal glen
and its pretty clear that devs dont want sliding to be a thing you do frequently
placid marten
I’m in class
do it in class 
vernal glen
they just failed at fixing it because they released stamina in the same patch where they attempted to fix it
vernal glen
if there's no turns
versed echo
do it in class <:d4rkevHut:871739869624418364>
I’ll do it after
I’m nearly done anyways for the day
Just give me like 20 more minutes
Patience is a virtue
vernal glen
i think the only thing that would be annoying about the bhops is those places where it is very minor
its not annoying to use it for a straight line
like R7C2 secondary massive save in the dimension
very simple to do
placid marten
oh you talking about doing it with no objevts
vernal glen
yes
versed echo
Someone teach me how to bhop
vernal glen
spam or time
versed echo
Used to run vsync dont anymore
vernal glen
that might honestly be the one good reason you can find why you shouldn't allow it
cuz some runners cant get 60fps
versed echo
Me at 2 FPS 
covert cypress
Actually fair point tbh
placid marten
:/
only because gtfo is unoptimized
60fps is quite often a funny change in how games work
lego star wars actually has multiple glitches where you need to swap between 30/50/60
@versed echo ping me once you wanna start making the thing
vernal glen
bhop on R7D1 gl getting enough fps
placid marten
Making poll?
This
versed echo
Sure sure
placid marten
ok its posted on the speedrun server if anyone wants to put their opinion into it
green fox
amazes me that bozos that cant figure out the difference between something being OP and being a glitch run the rules of speedrun.com on gtfo
can we vote to move runs with hel revolver to lawless% in r4 runs?
guns so op must be a bug
round kite
eternal dust
Thats a fine roast
fading snow
Add me to the class for bhops plz. I satisfy the 60+ requirement.
minor discussion on categories I don't speedrun at all, I'm barely good enough to just beat the game normally, but I think there should be a category where just everything is allowed: bhops, logs, terminal skips, door bug, ladder foam... all of it, except no booster. idk where you draw the line between major glitch and minor glitch but i think ladder foam is fine, (minor) terminal skip is fine, and then the rest of what i mentioned are too much against intended game design. however, I also think there should be a distinction between booster and non-booster runs because even though that would make just about as many categories as runners (from what i've seen), it makes sense given a team could bring full bioscan speed or infection resist on NMG runs.
minor discussion on logs even though i just said logs in the least restrictive category would be fun to see, and yes it is now widely accessible to everyone, i feel like logs aren't something that should be allowed at all because it is a non-game mechanic. like bhops and foam and door bugs abuse some in-game mechanic or behavior but logs require the external file that is updated/generated. and while yes, everyone that runs has access to do it I feel like that doesn't even require the game anymore. it removes the rng of finding objects and allows for MASSIVE skips like uplink skips. for that reason, although i like how broken that is, i don't think it should be allowed, or at the very least, distinguished (but then we have the issue of waaay too many categories).
again, just take all of this with a grain of salt because i don't speedrun so I don't know just how much time these things save but this is my perspective in terms of what naturally feels like is within the binds of the game and what is too far.
a continuation on logs the only way I see logs being allowed is if it's considered to be like a pseudo-seeded run since no such thing exists in-game yet. in both log-based or seed-based runs, you would know the codes beforehand as well as the position of objective items, so uplink skips would therefore be allowed. however, I don't think this should be allowed in the other non-seeded categories. the only issue with this category if it were to be deemed "seeded" is that enemy spawns would still be randomized so it's not a truly seeded run, hence a different name would need to be chosen, but the rules would mostly remain the same [as a seeded run].
placid marten
** **
**a continuation on logs** the only way I see logs being allowed is if it...
you can forbid uplink skip while still allowing logs, because uplink skips are pretty obvious
generally logs dont do much but reduce the tediousness on resetting. Without them youd still run for the best spawns, youd just spend WAY more times.
Logs generally are accepted now, aside from how they make speedrunning the game more accessable and less grindy without changing how you actually play the level, they are also pretty much undetectable. So any "no log" category would just end up "did they or did they not?"
Theres also a bigger difference between seeded and logs compared to logs and normaly gameplay.
green fox
Generally accepted by the people who started using it
placid marten
Add me to the class for bhops plz. I satisfy the 60+ requirement.
**minor disc...
regarding boosters
they are currently only allowed in lawless since they require a ton of rng to get and even more to get the best ones.
introducing booster categories for the other 2 existing ones would just clutter everything into oblivion
coral pelican
Generally accepted by the people who started using it
fwiw i don't use them and i accept them
cause if it saves people time from resetting 10 seconds in vs a minute in then i think it's a good thing
green fox
It's also used to find the location of items distributed through out the level in random locations
wind cliff
The time save on resets is nice. personally I wouldn’t run without it. But it is also an advantage kinda should be separate from a non log run. They aren’t even close to comparable in how they play and the routing you should do
green fox
Agreed, should be 2 different categories
placid marten
The time save on resets is nice. personally I wouldn’t run without it. But it i...
only for gathering missions
its legit the exact same for keys/hsus
the only difference is resetting for those
wind cliff
And uplink now
placid marten
@wind cliff
r7a1 and r6b2 are good examples
i ran the first with both logs and no logs. Nothing changed when running outside of getting more viable runs and using less times on resets.
ran the 2nd one without logs back in the day. and its pretty much the same compared to r1a1 right now, change being that we obviously didnt reset for hsus until we realized we didnt get one
uplinks you also simply ran to the best one
every time
r7b2 is a good example
youd run to lower terminal
if it wasnt it. youd either move or reset
wind cliff
Yes but still it seems like a good compromise for when another logs like breakthrough takes place. Or if we standardize rules for challenge rundowns and races. Like if this is a growing community there needs to be more space then just logs and door bug.
placid marten
it cant be checked
and outside of gathering missions it doesnt change the way we play effectively
if it suddenly completely breaks the game in the future, then we deal with it then?
also i cant make sense from your last sentence ._.
green fox
It does change it effectively
versed echo
Jish, how can there be 2 categories where you have 1 no log and 1 log when it's impossible to check?
green fox
Example is r2b1 finding the key
wind cliff
Jish, how can there be 2 categories where you have 1 no log and 1 log when it's ...
literally
we make a mod
placid marten
Example is r2b1 finding the key
you run to best spawn
wind cliff
to check
placid marten
you get the best spawn by rng
wind cliff
done easy
placid marten
thats how we did it before logs
fading snow
It does change it effectively
i see what he means when he says "it doesn't change the run" because the most common locations are known, so if they go to the most common location and it's not there, they just reset the run and try again. by using logs you ensure on drop it's at the best location.
versed echo
Jish, how would this mod be implemented?
placid marten
i see what he means when he says "it doesn't change the run" because the most co...
thanks
wind cliff
Jish, how would this mod be implemented?
you use mod list and need to show mod list on extract
green fox
i see what he means when he says "it doesn't change the run" because the most co...
No he's wrong in that he's framing that t
It needs to be done
green fox
Very few levels have high optimization in the first place
fading snow
No mods can be loaded
wait a minute you can't do speedruns with || the maul ||? sadge
versed echo
Jish, also, how would you exactly program a mod to capture logs?
wind cliff
i have an invasive way.
languid narwhal
You're defending something that gives a clear advantage over people who don't use it
versed echo
i have an invasive way.
Nutshell code pathing?
green fox
Also this ignores the fact
covert cypress
can we go back to when people didnt use logs team
round kite
You're defending something that gives a clear advantage over people who don't us...
isnt that why there are videos on how to use it?
green fox
That there are countless Speedrun games where that is the norm
covert cypress
i think it was a lot more peaceful back then 
crimson shore
green fox
Gtfo Speedrun community is honestly the first time I've seen where people are faced with poor rng and just go "hey let's cheat to make this easier"
Ofc you can
Its built into the fucking game
languid narwhal
Lmao what the fuck are these defenses
fading snow
You're defending something that gives a clear advantage over people who don't us...
i held your position before, but now i understand it better. the advantage of people who use it is they save time on resets because they don't have to actually go and see if it's the best location, but rather can check on drop. if for example the key isn't in the best spot, whether you used logs or not, you're gonna reset because it's not best rng. so it doesn't really do much to change the actual run, just how fast you know if that has the potential to be a good run.
covert cypress
the argument i think peter is that logs means u spend less time resetting or something?
fading snow
Gtfo Speedrun community is honestly the first time I've seen where people are fa...
true.
covert cypress
but im not informed enough to argue for or against i just dont like the idea of logs telling u where everything is LOL
green fox
Gerz how many Speedrun games have you followed?
covert cypress
literally like
languid narwhal
i held your position before, but now i understand it better. the advantage of pe...
Removing rng is, in essence, a clear advantage
covert cypress
2
green fox
And how many times have you heard about games with brutal rng?
versed echo
Removing rng is, in essence, a clear advantage
We aren't removing RNG.
covert cypress
honestly not often
green fox
And then how many times have you seen the community decide it's time to cheat to make dealing with rng easier?
covert cypress
none
green fox
The answer is honestly never for me
fading snow
Removing rng is, in essence, a clear advantage
ok but understand this:
a log run w/ best key location will have the SAME TIME as a non-log run with best location. the rng is not changed. it's only how long it took to find a good-rng run.
placid marten
Very few levels have high optimization in the first place
r1a1, r1b2, r2a1, r2b1, r2b2, r2b3, r2b4, r7a1, r7b1, r7b3 ?
round kite
its cheating that you're using a log file THE GAME generates? And this is still relatively new, obviously the mods and staff are still figuring out what goes where
hince this whole conversation
fading snow
i just noticed, @versed echo you got promoted?
languid narwhal
ok but understand this:
a log run w/ best key location will have the SAME TIME ...
But one is clearly easier to get because you have an external program that recognizes an optimal key location
versed echo
i just noticed, <@297431539065683980> you got promoted?
I did
versed echo
But one is clearly easier to get because you have an external program that recog...
It's not 3rd party
fading snow
But one is clearly easier to get because you have an external program that recog...
precisely. the advantage is in time to get runs in, not time in the run.
versed echo
It's 1st party
green fox
You are dumping those log files into note pad to read it
OMFG
Dude notepad is third party to gtfo LMAO
versed echo
Licensed and created by Windows 10+11
green fox
It sounds so stupid to have to explain this holy shit
fading snow
if anything GTFO is the 3rd party
languid narwhal
It's not 3rd party
I watched the setup video
green fox
I can't use windows calculator in math Olympics Speedrun LOL
versed echo
I watched the setup video
Bro. That's wardenmapper. Based on logs.
That's not logs.
WardenMapper takes logs input.
It is not logs itself.
fading snow
i mean but it's basically the same thing ngl
wind cliff
warden mappers goal was to make logs runs accessible to people who dont want to learn the system.
fading snow
looking at logs or having log shown to you is still using logs
wind cliff
yeah
round kite
i still dont know how one can decipher if logs were used or not, thats a HUGE issue here
wind cliff
same difference
versed echo
In any case VS Code is still 1st party lmao
green fox
Amazing that I need to explain in words that notepad is an external program to gtfo
wind cliff
i still dont know how one can decipher if logs were used or not, thats a HUGE is...
we make a mod that literally will crash your pc if you open the file
ez
placid marten
we make a mod that literally will crash your pc if you open the file
for 4 players?
languid narwhal
Detection is not an excuse lmao
green fox
It's fucking illegal to steal 1$ gum pack in the world
round kite
Cause what if i say i didnt use logs, i just ran to that locker every time then reset?
wind cliff
we can make a way to detect
green fox
Even though you can do it forever and never get caught
placid marten
the time of runs dont change with logs if you want to optimize...
round kite
It's fucking illegal to steal 1$ gum pack in the world
they havent caught me yet
fading snow
i still dont know how one can decipher if logs were used or not, thats a HUGE is...
the only real major glitch/skip would be uplink skips (which are very easy to detect) and optimal rng doesn't matter. it's like a seeded almost where you just have the most optimal locations and already know where those are.
green fox
There are many basic things that are illegal in this world that we have no way to enforce
wind cliff
i mean we even follow the insane rule that old rundowns arent able to have their records redone
green fox
There's probably cheaters that have not and never will get caught in countless speedruns
Does that mean in reality all those cheats should have been legal?
This is such a dumb arguement
round kite
ez fix, all log files should be mandatory
wind cliff
ez fix, all log files should be mandatory
blue screen
languid narwhal
Does that mean in reality all those cheats should have been legal?
Only if it makes my number lower than everyone else's
wind cliff
kill this man
round kite
lmao
round kite
tophat
languid narwhal
This log shit is transparent and not a hill to die on
round kite
This is such a dumb arguement
what is your overall opinion then im curious, i probably missed it through all the text
allow everything? or allow nothing at all
wind cliff
idk we should move past this i think the best way as a community is 2 categories. if you really need detection. we can use a mod, advance probability models, full live streams.
languid narwhal
He's said it multiple times lmao
round kite
god damn it was a legit question
wind cliff
any% logs
versed echo
idk we should move past this i think the best way as a community is 2 categories...
No modded runs, dual monitor setup, probability doesn't matter w/ RNG.
round kite
no need for the caps
languid narwhal
If you're going to categorize things, don't be biased in doing so
round kite
mald
fading snow
@wind cliff that makes sense to me 🤝
fading snow
any% restricted and any% unrestricted
green fox
use insult by favorite twitch streamer
covert cypress
any% can have logs restricted no logs
wind cliff
yeah pretty simple
covert cypress
i think thats a perfect spot to have it
round kite
idk peter you just seem very angry when i asked a simple question
subtle quartz
There's probably cheaters that have not and never will get caught in countless s...
Minecraft speedruns
green fox
oh boy hes still trying
wind cliff
peter isnt angry we just have gone over this so many times
and he just gets @ ed for no reason
languid narwhal
Probably because simple points aren't usually this hard to explain
fading snow
any% restricted
allowed: ladder foam, terminal skip
any% unrestricted
allowed: ladder foam, terminal skip, logs, bhop, uplink skip, door bug, etc.
green fox
bread are you trying to put anger into me because you need time to think of an on topic comment to make
or are you no longer going to participate in a meaningful way
round kite
i am not, i came to the convo late and was too lazy to read so i asked lmao
wind cliff
he is late to the convo but this has also been going on for 2 days
versed echo
any% restricted
> allowed: ladder foam, terminal skip
any% unrestricted
> allow...
Since you don't speedrun, you don't quite understand why they are allowed/disallowed in whatever respective category
For the time being
fading snow
this is very true. i also have no idea what lawless means cause the website just said "do what you want."
versed echo
Obviously there's going to be changes
round kite
and half of it was boring nonsense
languid narwhal
So far speedrunners have defended clear advantages because "everyone does this" or "it can't get detected"
versed echo
So far speedrunners have defended clear advantages because "everyone does this" ...
You don't speedrun either
wind cliff
lawless is where u go to doorbug
or any other start to avoid enemies spawning, moving or anything
versed echo
You also don't know what goes into this
languid narwhal
Are you literally gatekeeping lmao
versed echo
No, but if you started up, you would understand
wind cliff
beep is a very good gtfo bug finder
green fox
oh boy
languid narwhal
If I started speedrunning I wouldn't use clear advantages over people
versed echo
If I started speedrunning I wouldn't use clear advantages over people
How?
green fox
i do like that these guys check all the boxes of peple losing an arguemnt
versed echo
It's a level playing field currently.
green fox
arbitrarily gatekeeping
languid narwhal
By not opening notepad is a first
languid narwhal
Bro is borrowing Ben Shapiro strategies
covert cypress
"level playing field"
round kite
racial slurs coming to a place near you
wind cliff
stop
subtle quartz
hey guys I'm edgy
racial slur
versed echo
We posted out guides on how to use logs, so you can use them.
green fox
ur verifier called us homophobic slurs in a few hours LOL
versed echo
If not, you'll still be able to do the same, just not be able to reset as fast.
Exclude uplinks for the time being.
green fox
and he told someone to kill themselves today too no?
covert cypress
how kind of these professionals to give us their tools
round kite
ur verifier called us homophobic slurs in a few hours LOL
ah yes my verifier
languid narwhal
and he told someone to kill themselves today too no?
No way lmao
wind cliff
dont even get me started on zero gtfo speedrun admins running the game
round kite
i didnt converse with him once lmao
green fox
oh of course you guys have no association my bad
wind cliff
oh of course you guys have no association my bad
we dont but at the same time your right.
green fox
and because you are so neutral to him hes still on speedrun.com and speedrun discord
it must be because
all of you
so very much
have zero attachment to his person
green fox
LOL
round kite
im literally just here to run and enjoy the game
green fox
dude the "community"
still on the discord and website are just you are your friends
like LMAO
you act like gtfo speedrun discord community is more that 15 active people
round kite
do you play with anyone else besides you group? I actively find more people to run with
green fox
like you're all os disconnected and dont know eachothers names or existences
if i showed someone random the way you guys defend the way you run the discord and wesbite
they would think theres like 100+ people
round kite
only 2 of the people i run with have access to the discord and website my dude
green fox
oh boy
round kite
i didnt count amanes because he barely runs anymore, he busy
placid kite
literally
wind cliff
he seems like a character LOL
he is a character
round kite
i also have record with vox, jish, heman, etc. if we are bringing names
green fox
rick honestly
you probably should post that
it might get you banned by association
LOL
wind cliff
^^^
green fox
shouldnt****
placid kite
fair
wind cliff
yeah it would be a shame to lose good posters on main to
covert cypress
idk if bread is the one to be going for but its definitely a fair point to bring up peter
green fox
but GUYS
GUYS
DONT WORRY
we were banned because we are mean
and we had it coming
and no other reasons
yup yup
round kite
im literally not defending kaneki, you keep bringing him up like hes my best friend lmao
green fox
okay so bread why were we banned?
languid narwhal
we were banned because we are mean
You're expecting them to make unbiased decisions when they have trouble not being biased towards logs?
round kite
im not the mod team or a verifier, i have no idea, i wasnt part of the convo when it was happening nor the decision making
green fox
oops
round kite
I only have what i was told which i take carfully bc im not part of the convo or decision for yall to be banned
placid kite
he also has access to mod chat
green fox
didnt mean to click reply ro that message jish
placid kite
but kaneki still isnt banned
green fox
was just saying oh ok
wind cliff
no worries just thought i would add my two scents
placid kite
literally all he would need to do
green fox
no thats fair
placid kite
is send some screenshots of kaneki being homophobic
green fox
but we didnt say anything ban worthy
green fox
then that guy called justin what he did so justin just figure that was the norm
wind cliff
i think they banned you mainly on reputation
round kite
i talked to eva about right
eva didnt go into detail bc it was between the mods
green fox
thats actually a really itneresting strat
placid kite
you dont agree with what kaneki does right bread
wind cliff
but i dont actually know
green fox
i wish a gtfo mod would call me something crazy so i could be banned when i said something equally offensive
placid kite
and im sure there are many other people who dont agree in the speedrunning server
placid kite
since youre friends with eva you tell that a majority of people dont like him
and eva forwards it to obama
fading snow
i leave for 2 minutes! 102 new messages
wind cliff
i leave for 2 minutes! **102 new messages**
lol
round kite
since youre friends with eva you tell that a majority of people dont like him
?
i need more context
placid kite
we have 4 people in here alone already complaining about his homophobic behavior in that server
and the evidence to back it
and eva has access to mod chat
so how is he still in there
round kite
he = kaneki correct?
placid marten
i think beep has a pretty good understanding
beth we litteray just had a talk about logs no?
Beep keeps saying its a clear advantage. Outside of getting more possible runs by reducing needless resetting, where?
and if you want to keep resetting way longer than you have to, why? (actual reason please)
placid kite
yes
round kite
dude
placid marten
ur verifier called us homophobic slurs in a few hours LOL
the person that is litteraly gonna be removed? o.O
placid kite
we got removed within a week
green fox
because we brought attention to it
round kite
we have 4 people in here alone already complaining about his homophobic behavior...
kaneki wasnt mentioned in this sentence so i was confued on who "him" was
its it that bad to ask for elaboration?
green fox
if i hide a rapist in my basement im not a hero because i kicked him out when someone found him
LOL
round kite
and you keep asking me like i have control over this
green fox
my guy theres like 10 of you in there
placid kite
im saying if you care about the community you forward his behavior to eva
round kite
Eva already knows i dont support the behavior, i have told him
placid marten
still on the discord and website are just you are your friends
we were always open to invite people lol
the server was supposed to gather infos of spawns so they arent just on one persons pc
litteraly the opposite of keeping it secret
placid kite
ik im just making this notion evident
green fox
also for the record
round kite
ok and eva has access to mod chat so
ask eva lmao not me, im not eva
placid marten
he literally has records with
and we are verifyers because
we wanted runs of people who like speedrunning this game to be verifyed. shocker i know
green fox
i dont even recall once talking ot this obama person
round kite
although if i was that would be a sick twist
green fox
right
you and eva have only run 200 hours of r2e1 this past 2 months
almost no association
placid kite
im saying you are friends with eva
green fox
my mistake
placid kite
how have you not talked about
getting kaneki removed
for his homophobic behavior
if both of you dont agree with it
????
green fox
real question now is
whos paying for the medal they recieve after they ban kaneki after 2 months?
covert cypress
i got it
green fox
maybe it was the WAY justin said it back
round kite
how have you not talked about
rick we been over this, i have told eva I dont like his behavior
languid narwhal
the person that is litteraly gonna be removed? o.O
Has kaneki been removed yet?
round kite
thats actually more than i did with your group
when yalls shit was going down i just left it alone
green fox
he somehow said it so much worse that it got me rick and robert all AOE banned
placid marten
**this is very true.** i also have no idea what lawless means cause the website ...
thats an issue on our side yes
as we were currently trying to work out with active community members where specific glitches go we kinda forgot to clarify
green fox
that was impressive
placid kite
i understand you talked about it
but clearly you didnt care enough then
if hes still in there
and you run with 10 people
whom you could share his illegal behavior with
green fox
DUDE
covert cypress
why has it taken u this long to do something about it tho?
placid kite
????????????
green fox
you are removing him because of the random drama
languid narwhal
^^
versed echo
We didn't get a response from speedrun.com staff. We can't do anything about that
green fox
he would still be there forever if he wasnt brought up
covert cypress
like cool ur doing it now, why didnt u do it back then i guess is the thing
versed echo
In the end we took matters into our own hand
placid kite
U GUYS ARE IN THE MOD CHAT
languid narwhal
You could've done it sooner
placid kite
LOL
versed echo
What?
versed echo
Speedrun.com staff said nothing about outting him
green fox
that shit was too funny
round kite
but clearly you didnt care enough then
just like i clearly didnt care when justin's behavior was wild
green fox
why woudl he care
round kite
Im not going out of my way to get anyone banned nor am i going out of my way to support people
green fox
ok hes back to neutrality
placid marten
i wish a gtfo mod would call me something crazy so i could be banned when i said...
crazy that you make it seem like kaneki started this all
im not defending kaneki, not at all. but quit it with trying to act like members of your group behaved in any way like a normal person should
green fox
you sure you dont want to ask me if im mad?
round kite
so if you dont care why did you feel the need to defend yourself
cause yall just keep throwing out assumptions against me
placid marten
and eva forwards it to obama
i already did btw
its just the same as me waiting on being able to post guides into a channel, inactivity
round kite
im connected to 2 players that have played with kaneki and therefore i praise him like a god?
green fox
not even the random people that are just tuning it
tuning in*
why are they claiming to be taking actions against kaneki
when they wouldnt have if not for us
placid kite
bread
green fox
they jsut keep going on about it
round kite
yes
placid kite
u joined the convo
green fox
blows my mind
placid marten
hes still in there for 2 months
i know its been "too long", definetly agree on that
but it has barely been over a month lol
placid kite
and started defending urself from kaneki
by saying you have no association to him
even though no one was talking to you
round kite
all i did was ask peter what is opinions on the logs were
versed echo
I say that a month of no response from official staff is good enough
round kite
oh of course you guys have no association my bad
this it for the defense
versed echo
Obviously speedrun.com staff takes priority, wouldn't want to override their decision if they made one, right?
round kite
you did bring it up
green fox
crazy
placid marten
Has kaneki been removed yet?
technically. practically not (since neither of the active people can do that)
green fox
didnt know speedrun.com staff ran the discord
my bad
how do i contact speedrun.com staff to get kaneki baneed from the speedrun discord?
green fox
can any mods help me?
placid kite
before* you said that
round kite
"ah yes *my* verifier"
because he said kaneki is my verifier... as if i have a connection with him
versed echo
how do i contact speedrun.com staff to get kaneki baneed from the speedrun disco...
We aren't going to ban another verifier when it essentially a probation period by speedrun.com staff.
placid kite
we were talking to voidspace
versed echo
Hence why we needed to wait
green fox
its a little strange that we got banned in hours
and kaneki has been there for 2 months still
round kite
literally NO ONE
then my mistake, its hard when theres tons of people talking to understand whos talking to who
versed echo
Less than a month, Peter
covert cypress
toxic clique reputation goes crazy
round kite
i apologize
green fox
nope
versed echo
We have the email
placid kite
for your clarification
voidspace was gatekeeping beep
and the convo shifted to him
to which peter said your verifier
placid marten
its a little strange that we got banned in hours
weeks vs a bit over a month
keep the facts straight
round kite
especially with no reply
wind cliff
readings hard
dont worry most engineers feel the same way
versed echo
It's not gatekeeping, but more so cautioning beep and roy that they don't know about the specific tech and why they're placed in whatever categories currently
round kite
dont worry most engineers feel the same way
i think i share the dyslexia
versed echo
Did I ever tell them to stop talking? No
covert cypress
beep definitely knows the specific tech team
wind cliff
beep does understand the tech. made half of it
versed echo
beep definitely knows the specific tech team
But not why they are placed where
narrow mortar
placid kite
this is such a weird narrative
covert cypress
i feel like that holds no relevance but pop off i guess
placid marten
beep definitely knows the specific tech team
has beep speedran gtfo before?
does beep know that its exactly the same in how the run ends up logs vs no logs?
versed echo
i feel like that holds no relevance but pop off i guess
That's where the entire convo stemmed from
covert cypress
im done team
versed echo
So it holds all the relevance
green fox
covert cypress
this is not my problem anymore LOL
green fox
OH
OHHHH
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
okay
so before you were
"heh peter it wasnt a month"
now its
"its ~1 not 2"
wind cliff
but the point is why is kankie still in the server?
green fox
gotcha
versed echo
It's only a little over a month, I miscalculated
placid marten
void missunderstood what i said peter
green fox
great conversation
round kite
forgot that mistakes cant be made in a convo
versed echo
He isn't
placid kite
ok mistakes happen
covert cypress
BRO
versed echo
He has free reign to talk
green fox
because beep doesnt agree with them
placid kite
but i think theres been like 6 mistakes in the last hour
languid narwhal
Lmao I'm done
green fox
when someone who also doesnt speedrun made a comment agreeing with them
they thanked them
btw
beep
you should know
LOL
languid narwhal
LMAO
green fox
how hard the gatekeep is right now
placid marten
why is beep being gatekept
he isnt
(at least not by me lol)
beep just has been repeatedly stating that its a major advantage. Yet thats not true. If it is, tell me where beep?
yeah i thank people who are calm to discuss with
and who try to understand points
versed echo
It's not like Im some discord mod banning him from this channel
languid narwhal
Sorry it's not allowed it'd harm Eva's r2e1 time
covert cypress
in space?
placid marten
they make fast runs more consistent
green fox
eva has so many "wrs" with logs only
placid marten
meaning you get more chances at fast runs
green fox
and is asking where logs make him faster
grave path
they make fast runs more consistent
then just allow seeded then?
green fox
dude
placid marten
and not many people do
green fox
you think you have wr because of skill?
every map we tried to beat you in
we got it in a few hours
placid marten
then just allow seeded then?
other issue. If you actually wanna talk about this (which id be glad to do)
then dm me
because this shitshow rn wont help clear the points up
round kite
we got it in a few hours
congrats sry this was uncalled for
placid kite
i like being able to straight run to 3/3 lockers with the pid vs having to check every possible spot in the zone
placid marten
we got it in a few hours
sooo... 2?
and bread got the time back in ... minutes?
grave path
the advantage of logs is you get to run more attempts of a good seed vs just brute forcing dropping and wasting time
thats not an advantage?
placid marten
i like being able to straight run to 3/3 lockers with the pid vs having to check...
if you had read my comments. Which at this point it seems like you guys arent doing
then you would know that i agree that gathering missions are the actual issue with logs and how they work
green fox
no ryk
dont you remember that one time in the other speedrun game
where they allowed cheating to make rng less brutal?
round kite
okay week is minutes
i will say we dont get much time to run because of time zone differences
green fox
wtf?
placid kite
so why do you still advocate for logs 100%
placid marten
knowing where everything is is probably an advantagre
i have 3 5:34s on R7A1
1 we ran without logs, 2 with
exact same keys
placid kite
if youre already wavering on gathering missions
green fox
dream was right all along
eventually you get a run with more ender pearls anyways
so why not just up the rng
all it does it make you reset less
christ it was all there in front of us this whole time
placid marten
thats not an advantage?
it is an advantage
but at the same time running more vs running less would be an advantage. The runs themselves arent faster
a seeded run can be absolutely min maxed to no end
and im not even against seeding if its easily possible. Get a modder to make every vanilla level with a set seed that is the quickest one and boom. we get the category
placid marten
so why not just up the rng
nah
this would be like checking if you would get those ender pearls in advance and then stopping the run
wait that sounds earily similar to what minecraft speedrunners do with f3 checking coordinates in the nether
green fox
if you play enough eventually
placid kite
but now that he cant he has to create an advanced strategy that has to account for rng
placid kite
its almost like thats the complex part of speedrunning
green fox
and EVENTUALLY
languid narwhal
let me press f3 to get the item location in gtfo
placid marten
and eva resets for cell in B
theres unironically A cells spawns that we have gotten 
green fox
you will get it
so why even play
just uninstall
wr was achieved in theory
out of our control
placid kite
thats the issue with the "just reset 200 times" mindset
green fox
actually i know the theoretical limit for r2e1
round kite
let me press f3 to get the item location in gtfo
nah just press alt+tab xD
green fox
can i just get WR on website
after 1000000000 i will get it anyways
and rng isnt a part of speedruns IMO
languid narwhal
rng isnt a part of MY speedruns*
which I will gracefully teach you how to do but if you don't do it you're at a clear disadvantage
covert cypress
beep wanna speedrun with me
languid narwhal
but that disadvantage is your choice btw because everyone is doing it and it's undetectable
do you see where I'm having trouble with your reasoning?
"A log run doesn't guarantee a wr", it certainly helps reduce the time to get one
green fox
beep just do a duo speedrun so you can participate
narrow mortar
😳 But... But... Dark Souls has RNG 😳
green fox
you dont belong here yet
placid kite
a1 duo 6 minutes and you can talk about logging
languid narwhal
i'm hitting up gerz as we speak so I get the right to have an opinion
covert cypress
lets fsucking go
placid marten
rng isnt a part of MY speedruns*
it still is...
beep, we would have the exact same run. Without logs, just more resets along the way that take more time
placid kite
ok guys hear me out
do u think this is the same run
if eva could log r2e1 cell in A and reset for it
vs clearing entire shadow giant zone up to terminal and pinging it
placid marten
why would we ping it?
covert cypress
that would be so fucking different
languid narwhal
bro
placid marten
wed just remember spawn location and check that when running in
wat
are you talking about
@covert cypress ????
placid kite
yes but theres 30 locations
placid marten
???????
placid kite
LOL
green fox
also i really hate to point this out
placid marten
what
green fox
its not like getting A cell would get you WR
placid kite
if the cell is too far
green fox
why dont you just fucking learn to optimize your actual runs
placid kite
or in 598
placid marten
we reset when the time is to slow split wise lol
placid kite
thats what they do tho
green fox
and didnt learn 598 is on average 30seconds to 1 minute faster