gtfo-speed-running

[placid marten]

youll be out of stamina with melee immediatly

[covert cypress]

Like you can still do these things, but they aren’t as fun is my point

[still latch]

yeah, alarm clean up aren't the same :/

[candid jackal]

Tbh if they didn't want us to hammer everything they would've given the hammer a finite ammo counter

(that's a joke)

[covert cypress]

imagine ur hammer can break

[placid marten]

that would make the game shit

but im all for it

imagine hammer refill packs

now its finally balanced

[candid jackal]

Yea sure fuck it what's the worst that could happen

Get some duct tape and metal sheets to repair damage

Maybe some welding equipment

[upbeat tusk]

this is some weird convo

"stamina is bad because i can't melee wave"

"let add a feature that break the hammer = can't melee wave"

[covert cypress]

it was a joke

[frigid stratus]

The hammer thing is clearly a joke, pardon the intrusion but the whole stamina vs no stamina thing is just an opinion no? Its preference so at the end of the day I don't see too much of a reason to debate it heavily, stamina will just be around now, doubt they'll remove it but I see no harm in reminiscing about when stamina wasn't a thing either

[covert cypress]

nah I just wanna have infinite ammo it’s fine

[upbeat tusk]

well, you're doing the same?

[covert cypress]

Games too hard after all

[upbeat tusk]

i'm not cursing you

i didn't insult you

now you're pulling the "it's a headache man, we can't have opinion man"

[covert cypress]

what do you like about stamina alpha? Genuinely curious

[upbeat tusk]

i feel the same as no stamina

it do be a headache man, i can't have opinion

patronize?

Gerz said it herself

[candid jackal]

There are online dictionaries should you need one

[upbeat tusk]

it change nothing other than "clearing wave with hammer"

but low and behold, you can still do it, it's just not with 2+ Hybrids

and now you're patronize me

[covert cypress]

it doesn’t change much of course, you’re right about that

it’s still annoying tho

[upbeat tusk]

if i'm right about that, then what?

[eternal dust]

It changed a lot , if you look at the way you think abbout waves and positions on where to run

[covert cypress]

repositioning is also kinda rough in solo now

[upbeat tusk]

it's still only affected solo, which is not many do and not intended for the game

[eternal dust]

3 down 1 alive gives the same effect

[covert cypress]

In a full team setting it doesn’t matter cause now instead of hammering u just shoot right

[eternal dust]

Not every time thats true but still

[upbeat tusk]

if you're 3 down then it isn't the game fault

is it?

like everyone was saying A LOT already, the game give you a lot of resources

[covert cypress]

those things still happen tho

You’re not always playing perfectly lol

Or maybe you’re in a pub and 3 go down

[upbeat tusk]

not perfect, but "tactical"

[covert cypress]

It’s not uncommon

[upbeat tusk]

you can plan things

it's a team game

and if it's relied on you "running far away and then run back"

Those thing happen, i get it

but then you failed, you grow

you get better

if i can hold Shift W and win game, i would have done that years ago

oh wait, i did

[covert cypress]

cool I guess

idk what you want me to say to that lol

gonna be honest team I can’t say I’m going into a pub planning literally anything I am simply just playing the game

[upbeat tusk]

you are playing the game

but if the team have a plan

[eternal dust]

Most generic answers i have seen In a whyle

[upbeat tusk]

cool bro

what you're going to call me next

"Attention begger?"

[covert cypress]

a 1 up situation doesn’t mean I’m instantly going long

[mellow loom]

comedown my guy

[upbeat tusk]

i haven't insult you once

[mellow loom]

get a drink @upbeat tusk

[covert cypress]

I’m gonna shoot it all if I can, repositioning is harder tho so stamina does affect that

[upbeat tusk]

i already have

[covert cypress]

At the end of the day stamina just means u shoot more lol

[mellow loom]

and both of u need to to stop this con

[covert cypress]

so it does change something

[upbeat tusk]

idk man, i'm just talking to gerz here

[placid marten]

We settle this by who gets the better time in r2a1 solo speedruns

[upbeat tusk]

it's a heated convo but not that much to call people "attention seeker"

[covert cypress]

uh oh

[placid marten]

alt

time will stick

[covert cypress]

r2a1 is kinda cute

[placid marten]

tbf thats a mission with 0 stamina impact

[candid jackal]

ALT, bleh

[upbeat tusk]

can i read log file

[covert cypress]

I don’t think that’s a can of worms we wanna open team

[upbeat tusk]

all the cool kid is doing that

[placid marten]

i mean its not a can of worms anymore since its accepted now (unless you mean alt vs og)

[covert cypress]

I meant logs

[placid marten]

anyone who legit thinks logs are bad for speedrunning hasnt speedrun that much imo…

Do you want to reset 5000 times for best key over 50 hours or 5000 times in 5

[upbeat tusk]

oh no

badger gonna call you out

[covert cypress]

if I was to get into speedrunning I’d much rather do ones that don’t just involve key rng

[placid marten]

i mean, same?

[upbeat tusk]

congrat

[placid marten]

but sadly thats not many missions

[upbeat tusk]

the whole game is rng

[covert cypress]

yeah

[placid marten]

r1d1 is fun to do

[covert cypress]

Maybe alt r5e1 will be good guys

[placid marten]

no rng but scans (and ammo i guess)

[upbeat tusk]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/714910123277025421/1068907950791462972/image.png

i love my internet

[eternal dust]

Scans on that can be rough

[candid jackal]

my personal belief is that it's up to you to make the run, I don't like the idea of resetting for specific RNG elements

but hey I might have a slightly romanticised view of speedrunning, at least for this game

[covert cypress]

That’s most speedruns tho 😔

[placid marten]

You are moreso resetting for viable rng

Youd legit reset the moment you didnt get the key anyway

[candid jackal]

the game does it's stuff, it's up to you to do yours

[covert cypress]

That’s why I avoid stuff like r1a1

[upbeat tusk]

the run will get to the point of min-max route

that's a really cool thought

[eternal dust]

Doesnt have to ve the case

[upbeat tusk]

but when you see people doing the same rng

[placid marten]

@candid jackal
General speedruns (see rundown% where resetting between levels isnt allowed) make you deal with what you get

[upbeat tusk]

just to get that perfect time

[placid marten]

but in a normal run youd reset anyway

[eternal dust]

Enemy spawns also can highly effect a run, lets say i break a door and get hit with 2 giants

[placid marten]

You cant get a quicker time with H key in r1a1 vs C/G/F :^ )

Litteraly impossible

but have fun trying

A god seed is usually not checkable anyway

and logs check for VIABLE runs.
Making you run more than if you didnt

run r2e1 with I cell 😛

vs good J cell

[candid jackal]

if you're running so much that you're recognising seeds I don't mind at all, but I don't like the idea of logs/external assistance

[placid marten]

you think i only run training and a1s?

[placid marten]

its info the game gives you

[upbeat tusk]

i'll add to this, imagine there is this one really good rng that ONE team or player got it and get the WR

[placid marten]

and again. I can see this opinion in gather missions (r1b1, r2c2) but not for key missions

[covert cypress]

That reminds me, I’ve had 2 times recently where a big charger has been right behind a door I opened

pretty funny

[placid marten]

Anyone who actually did speedruns on missions with keys knows youd just reset anyway if you didnt get one of 3 good keys

[upbeat tusk]

if people want to beat that WR, they will have to aim for that RNG or better

[eternal dust]

R1B1 whould like to prove you wrong

[upbeat tusk]

i think Eva here know a really good RNG

[placid marten]

?

[eternal dust]

Or is it R2* my bad

The class 7

That scan can make the key not mather

[placid marten]

r2b1 is also rng bound

Key itself can have a difference of over 20 seconds

and youll run 100 times before you get any good key

[eternal dust]

The scan can waste time or make your run

[placid marten]

yes

but you are more likely to get a an actual run with logs

Youll run any good key that isnt an insta 10 sec delay
Then it comes down to skill and scan again

[upbeat tusk]

it's still RNG base

[eternal dust]

I got a good key but the scan took ages

[placid marten]

yes

but a bad key + good scans wont be better than a good key + good scans

and you are hunting for the best time

[upbeat tusk]

the runner right now don't know how to look at good scan vs bad scan

[placid marten]

its different from races where its a mix

[upbeat tusk]

but if they ever did, well, they'll be gunning for it

and we're back at Step 1: "Look at log"

[placid marten]

Yeah
We can only check key objective items (and only vaguely at times)

and im fine with that

i wouldnt want seed hunting

that sucs

[upbeat tusk]

or you can ask wesley

but anyway, runner will always gun for best RNG

[placid marten]

its just weird to me when people tell me logs are cheating in a non gather objective mission

its like they havent run that before and think we magically summon the key

[upbeat tusk]

well, runner will memorize the rng of the level that they are running

if you guy didn't use log

the same will happen either way

"is the best id spawn in A?"

if not, restart

that example can be key, cell, fog turbine....

[round kite]

All I’m saying is try r1a1 without logs and enjoy spending even more time (literally days) trying to get even a sub 3min

[placid marten]

Wdym bread, they just gotta run for b hsu every run

i mean theyll only get like 15 runs at best per hour

ignoring keys that means theyll only need to run like 4 hours til they get one statstically

Oh shit didnt insta find key since it was somewhere in H? Too bad. Oh wait hsu was 2nd in B?

[median quarry]

[vernal glen]

aimbot

[wind cliff]

Movement macros

[versed echo]

I define “external” as something outside the scope of an object. Logs in GTFO are bound within the scope of GTFO since it’s reading game files generated by the game itself.

Recognizing seeds are almost impossible without logs too, rarely do you get the same seed to occur. If we delve deeper and try to seed a run, we’d have to essentially take the entire code generated for the level and edit the game so we get that seed again, impossible to do unless you get the game files, which you can also consider calling them logs.

Logs are considered information given to you prior/during the run. It tells you if it’s a viable run, saving us time in more than just resetting. If we know where the key, terminal, HSU, etc. (Warden Objective items), then we can path directly to them instead of using the terminal to ping, etc., optimizing time.

For runs that are very RNG dependent, it saves so many hours. Let’s take Bread’s example of R1A1. That level is very RNG dependent because of the pair you have to roll to get a god run (you have to get the key and HSU in very good positions). But the probability of rolling that is extremely low. We got god run and it took many resets before that. Bread ran R1A1 more than I have and probably has reset at least 10x-20x more than I have.

There are some levels where logs can’t help you completely. Take R7D1 for instance. I ran R7D1 for a solid 2 weeks to get my semi-god run of 4 terminals in main. Logs would only help during the search for the bulkhead key, but the rest relies on scan RNG + terminal location, which isn’t shown by logs at all. My terminal spawns also can’t be checked by logs. The god run for R7D1 has a probability of 0.0024 chance of spawning, excluding the factor of god bulkhead key spawn. If R7D1 terminals could be checked with logs, I would’ve saved a whole lot of time with this level.

[wind cliff]

To be honest you have played runs in this game. If you did for a while you will understand why we do it this way. Seeding does provide a large difference in degree of knowledge over a seed. Logs gives us a most key objective items such as keys, gather items and sometimes hsu/terminal placement. Any resource sleeper spawns, scans still remains random and is where most of the skill is in the game. Logs just removes an element of randomness where we would be going for one box for key either way it just makes resets faster.

And if you want to tell us to just reset more without playing gtfo runs idk kinda lame

[candid jackal]

Yes I understand that if you're chasing records or trying to get the fastest possible time you'd be using logs to lessen the time investment, I didn't explicitly say that, but I'm not stupid

That still doesn't mean I have to find logs agreeable, whether they're considered external or not is down to semantics/personal opinion

No, I don't speedrun and I doubt I will, if I did I'd be running with friends without the intention of breaking records

[native crest]

For speedruns in which objective items have few viable locations, using logs does not provide an unusual advantage, and instead just limits the amount of investment in a run before resetting. This serves to save runners time and reduce frustration. This is less contentious.

For speedruns in which objective items have many viable locations, using logs does provide an unusual advantage, as it allows runners to path directly to the correct item location without requiring the use of a terminal. (E.g. gather levels.) This is more contentious.

[placid marten]

less about viable locations and more about number of items to get and how spread out they are
R1A1 has over 50 key spawn locations but logs dont make the runs "better", just reduce the amount of time spent in no value runs

but yea, generally this

[native crest]

It's also worth noting that sometimes the two situations can be mixed. Using logs to check if R2C2 even gives you enough IDs in the 3 zones you check would not be as contentious as using logs to know all the ID locations.

The run is only viable if enough IDs spawn in those zones, but within a "viable run" there are many "viable locations" for the actual IDs to be.

I'm really using "viable" as very all encompassing.

[small portal]

Isn't repeating seed a bug from R6 - R7 before alt:R1 ? The devs incorrectly used zone number instead of some kind of current_time info to seed

[wind cliff]

You still get repeat seeds just more unlikely now

[vernal glen]

the seed that seeds the seed wasn't random

so on fresh boots when things haven't been offset much you would get the same ones often

to the point where you could write down numbers of sec doors because in the small pool you had it was very likely that the same 1/1000 number would be the same seed

[wind cliff]

To be honest it is because currently there is like 12 people who run levels that aren’t e tiers

And if you want to do that you just should an no one will stop you

[tiny dirge]

I think that no matter what you do, there's going to be RNG involved in every run so blaming the devs for a game that constantly changes so that it doesn't become boring is not the way.

besides, every run can be improved no matter the "seed"

[placid marten]

Logless category:
Impossible to check. It could devolve into people acting like they arent using logs. And you know the funny? It would look any different since logs DO NOT CHANGE how you play the level

Seeded category? It was already talked about, but comes down to

1. entry hazard will be way higher than logs. Since logs are 1.1 non mandatory for a lot of missions
   1.2 a lot easier to use than modded (or whatever wed use to set a seed)
2. deciding on a seed for each singular level (what makes the seed, is it best spawns times only? Then stuff like r2e1 seeded is A cell, god scans. Same for any other missions)

Impossible to compete in levels without logs? Lets first take out all the levels that obviously dont get impacted from logs (r1c1, r1d1, r2b2, r2d1, r2e1, r7d1, r7d2, r7e1)
Now we still have levels that logs help with rng by making you run more viable runs. But the logs themselves dont change the strats in a major way.
R2B1, R2B4, R2C1, R2D2, R7B1, R7A1 (funnily enough, we have 3 5:34s. 2 with logs, 1 without)

If enough people were to start wanting seeded runs and it could be implemented easily then theres nothing against it

Its just an actual can of worms if you wanna compare it to minecraft

[upbeat tusk]

you can only check if people didn't use log is when they are streaming

[placid marten]

and even then

a team can work around it

[tiny dirge]

oh @placid marten I met your friend @median quarrygenderman just 5 minutes ago

[upbeat tusk]

and people could just upload a vid and pretend it's a stream

[placid marten]

just type into a discord channel what the thing is

[placid marten]

Wat?
Oh legenderguy

[tiny dirge]

Yeah

he helped me finish r2b2 and r2b4

[placid marten]

back to topic

Logless category is impossible to verify and makes no sense to anyone who knows what they do

people act like logs give you magical rng control

And tru said it earlier. Yes in gather missions its noticeably different. But those were notoriously SHIT to speedrun before

because guess what. They had way too much rng

[tiny dirge]

I also feel like levels that give you a lot of resources also add RNG to runs

[placid marten]

its moreso if you need a lot of ressources

most levels you want stuff but its fine if you get only some of it

[tiny dirge]

EXACTLY

[placid marten]

usually thats only like specific things like foggies, 1 ammo/tool pack

[wind cliff]

r2c1 not getting any fogs c foam or res

[versed echo]

Seeding would be modifying game files (aka modded). MC has that feature built in. GTFO doesn’t.

[placid marten]

Entry hazard ^

MC gives you a feature to do seeded

gtfo? Na

[versed echo]

There’s a huge difference in skill to modify and code the certain run for GTFO. It requires coding skills, so yes, entry hazard and also violation of modifying game files rule.

[placid marten]

Tbf the modifying rule stands because of those reasons and would obviously be lifted for a seeded category (at least partially)

[versed echo]

MC is also definitely coded differently. It can read a seed and be able to generate a level based on that. However, GTFO seeding would have to edit massive data blocks into the game files itself via VSCode, nothing like you see in Minecraft. The best comparison between seeded GTFO and Minecraft would be seeded GTFO and Minecraft Java Edition w/ mods. The MC speedrunning board doesn’t accept modded runs, only vanilla.

[vernal glen]

comparing logs to minecraft seeding lol

seeding would be similar to seeding

logs are similar to minecraft debug stuff

which they use for the non seeded runs

L comparison

[small portal]

Logs is F3 in minecraft. Using logs to quickly reset a run is entirely different to a seeded run

[frozen hull]

Всем привет!
Ищу тиму для игры в GTFO

[weary oriole]

[subtle quartz]

logs are just a list of information
seeds are one strand of numbers that are used by the world generator
how was there a mix up?

[versed echo]

https://youtu.be/OpX1mV8VHYg

[south citrus]

ok where do i find the speedrunning lore

[vernal glen]

matpat interview

[south citrus]

huh

so where is the origin story for the mystery time

and the seeding

[placid marten]

#gtfo-speed-running message

mystery time is somewhere in gtfo media
a while ago tbf

[south citrus]

okok

i will have stuff to read when im working later

let's GOOOO

[placid marten]

thats like half of it only

[south citrus]

🤨

[languid narwhal]

I don't understand the whole logs thing, but I also don't see why seeded runs would or should get backlash or discounted. Don't speedrunning communities normally just categorize these things?

I also understand concern from people who think that there's inconsistency or bias with what's decided as legitimate or not

Unless I'm reading this entirely wrong, which if that's the case my bad.

You can't argue against methods that give an inherent advantage but equally defend one's seemingly only because either everyone is doing it or the inherent advantage takes longer to get

[glass cradle]

its dumb

[languid narwhal]

There's my manifesto. I need to go back to seeding my wife.

[glass cradle]

youre better off not looking into it

[upbeat tusk]

average player thinking

"i saw this guy doing this run without using logs, so you should too"

it happen on every speedrun community (that i know of)

[native crest]

If enough people wanted to run seeded runs, then we could make a category for those.

But it would be a category with a very high barrier to entry (seeding runs for GTFO is hard compared to games with easy seed entry, and would require modification of the game files) and a category with a very large and potentially boring aspect of seed hunting (looking for the optimal seed out of the millions there are would be difficult to say the least).

Likely because of those reasons, it does not seem that there is enough demand to create a seeded category.

[languid narwhal]

My point is, who are you to decide that

[native crest]

I'm not sure I follow, what do you mean that I have "decided" there @languid narwhal

[languid narwhal]

Just do what normal people do and post the cheese emoji under solos you don't like

I apologize. I took your assuming of a general consensus with you arguing a fact.

[native crest]

No worries!!

[versed echo]

@languid narwhal The only reason why you would say that speedrunning communities categorize seeding is because some other speedrunning boards (I.e Minecraft) has seeding.

However, there are a couple things to note out:

1. Seeding is built into Minecraft
2. GTFO doesn’t have seeding built in
3. Seeding is near impossible to do in GTFO and would require modding and vast amount of CS work.
4. We don’t allow game modifications in the GTFO speedrunning board
5. You can’t compare GTFO seeding and Minecraft seeding. 2 different things. Like previously mentioned, GTFO logs is basically Minecraft F3 debugging
6. Minecraft speedrunning board doesn’t accept modded runs (i.e Fabric and Optifine/Forge). Also, majority of boards don’t accept modded gameplay for speedrun (because of modification of game files). So by extension, we wouldn’t allow seeding, since again, it’s modification of game files and would be considered modded

No speedrunning community has ever categorized modded runs and probably never will. The closest thing will probably be an entirely separate board for modded itself, but really defeats the purpose of speedrunning.

If you speedrun Minecraft on modded where you could download hundreds of mods for better QoL and OP weapons and stuff, you’d obviously get a better run. But speedrunning usually categorizes vanilla gameplay only. And for good sense too, since it can already be quite difficult to speedrun vanilla on a level playing field.

[upbeat tusk]

minecraft speedrun are also going to change

you're now have to play on a server to speedrun

[placid marten]

Which usually would be similar to modded rundowns itself.

The rare exception being mods MADE for speedrunning. For example if everyone wanted to run seeded runs and someone did the work for it

[placid marten]

To explain it a bit since the whole drama thing couldve actually went down a lot more smoothly.

Seeded runs would get backlash because there are currently rules in place that are against it. (See Voidspace comments). These rules got set by the majority/active community back in the day.

So as tru said, if enough people were interested the category would get discussed about. And in the end even if it would not be allowed, just because it isnt on speedrun.com doesnt mean you cant run it.

Others already explained why seeded runs dont work well for gtfo, meanwhile with logs some people cried for inconsistency. This usually just stems from a lack of knowmedge tho.
Logs have barely any impact compared to seeds, they currently only reduce (not set) major rng for resetting.

Do Logs add an inherent advantage? Yes because they allow you to realize a run doesnt work earlier, meaning you get to actually run „speedrunnable“ runs more often.

You are still at the mercy of any rng in the level. The exception (which already got discussed multiple times) are gather missions (such as R1B1, id gathering) where they pose a major advantage. Ill talk about the issue of checking for this in a second

So, do logs give you an actualy inherent advantage? No
You would usually run to the best key spor aswell, meaning you dont change the speedrun loop. It pretty much just makes speedrunning more accessable, especially with the very low barrier of entry to logs.

The issue, which resulted in them being accepted pretty much with no way against it, is tho that someone using them is undetectable. Banning an undetectable „help“ just doesnt work :/

the people that got banned did so mostly for their toxic conduct, something thats obviously against the rules and even against speedrun.com TOS

[subtle quartz]

the speed running hacking is insane

Dream gets outed
the person who outed Dream gets outed
and so forth
it's hackers exposing hackers

[upbeat tusk]

the moderator bought a server and tell people if they want to speedrun, they have to log into that server to speedrun

which the server will run a check that check everything

[placid marten]

@upbeat tusk what?

[glass cradle]

(Minecraft speedrunning)

[placid marten]

since when are they supposed to run on a bought server?

?

[glass cradle]

Very recently

"New" cheater got caught after a long time of cheated runs, so new rules

[versed echo]

Damn, imagine lags ☠️

Gonna be hard to calculate time

Props on them though

For tryna stop cheating and stuff

[placid marten]

Where do you find those news/new rules?

also the number of people speedrunning minecraft lol

thats one of the biggest speed games

gigantic ass server or what

[placid marten]

oh yeah for sure

Trackmania once did something rly cool aswell for catching cheaters. Usually it happens when cheating happened and they find ways against it

[glass cradle]

I don't actually know if that rule is in effect or not yet, it's definitely in the works if it isnt

I think alpha probably knows more than me, I just watch one of the big runners

[upbeat tusk]

yes

[placid marten]

explain

[upbeat tusk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltRiqAW7oLE

[placid marten]

cuz i remember somebody bringing it up back in 2021 and every said that a server wouldnt make sense

Not the cheating scandal

I dont remember there being direct talk about a moderator checked speedrun server

in said video

o.O

[upbeat tusk]

the cheater said, there is no way you can check if the guy is cheating or not if they only upload to youtube

[placid marten]

and

(Im legit interested)

[upbeat tusk]

the guy have been cheating for year

[versed echo]

In the video it mentions top players must use a client

Where the client checks game files

Something about connecting

[placid marten]

different than a server no?

[versed echo]

Kinda

[subtle quartz]

it wasn't even hacking

the way the "speed run" was put in for entry was through video

and the dude lazily spliced runs together to make it seem like a single run

it's amazing no one caught the video edits

[upbeat tusk]

you need to know how the game really run

he edit the vid really smooth

[subtle quartz]

true

[versed echo]

Well he also modified game files

So a client side checksum would catch that

[subtle quartz]

he did everything

[versed echo]

https://youtu.be/CIpvRdct-bA

[gritty atlas]

hello.. can i ask something about speedrunning here.

[eternal dust]

Yes

[gritty atlas]

if i submit a run, other then the video wat should i provide..

cause i see provide logs, but idk how to do that.

[ionic halo]

You only need to provide logs if the verifiers ask for it, #bug-reporting has info on how to get the logs of a particular session

[gritty atlas]

aight.. thanks for the info..

[eternal dust]

Yeah im late to reply , seems you got it 🙂

[gritty atlas]

u help too.. dont worry..

iv submit my run..

may the speedrun council decide my fate..

[eternal dust]

Epic🔥

[placid marten]

Is verified

interesting category to start with

[gritty atlas]

sankyuu

[gritty atlas]

[placid marten]

Hm ?

[coral pelican]

where can i find the discord server d4rkeva showed with the images for where key things mean they are in the logs, in the logs tutorial vid

[placid marten]

i can invite you if you want

it was mostly there to get all infos together neatly for the people working on it

we will port it onto the main speedrun server and speedrun.com the coming weeks

[coral pelican]

i would appreciate that, won't screw up anything just want to see the relevant stuff

[placid marten]

we have made it so only people that actually work on it or give infos have the ability to change the important channels anyway

lemme send you a dm

[coral pelican]

makes sense lol

video's really cool btw, only problem is low enough resolution that i can barely read anything lmao

[placid marten]

yeah
I only realized that once i had it uploaded

I would really recommend @versed echo new video (in guides n reviews)

The guide i made was mostly to show how to open the logs and explain the basics. (With everything in the description)

[coral pelican]

oh lmao
i was
actually going to try to make something somewhat similar to wardenmapper xD
saves me some time then!

[placid marten]

yeah bless the archi

[coral pelican]

also would've been much more primitive lol so very handy

[placid marten]

We are currently doing finishing touches

Weve got everything but r2d1, r7b2, c3 and d1 mapped

And about half of them are in wardenmapper already

[coral pelican]

nice, that's awesome lol

[placid marten]

now just to get it all into wardenmapper and the base maps into a google doc

Then the last few guides

until r3 drops

and we do maps for all those levels

[gritty atlas]

Darkeva, whats the diffirence between lawless any % and Lawless 100%..

[vernal glen]

any is just complete the level

100% is complete all objectives

but very irrelevant for the old rundowns

[placid marten]

yep
100% is only on R7 levels right now. And for those only B2, B3, C2, C3 and D1

[gritty atlas]

Thanks for the info you two..

now i know which one is possible to do for me..

[coral pelican]

what the hell was going on in media earlier

[covert cypress]

dont ask questions you dont want the answer to

[coral pelican]

i think i have a general picture so i just want specifics so i think i do indeed want the answer

[covert cypress]

ok so you know like

overwatch

how theres like 2 teams and they go fight

it like that

hope this helped

[coral pelican]

very helpful thank you

[wind cliff]

peter explained what happened in gtfo chat

at some point

just stalk the messages

[placid marten]

„Explained“

[coral pelican]

you think i care enough to go search previous messages
cause you are very wrong

[placid marten]

with a very twisted view

i can explain tmrw if nobody does rn. But i gotta sleep

gn

[coral pelican]

gn

[covert cypress]

team im not gonna lie i think the toxic clique makes some good points

am i going down a dark path

[south citrus]

It is tomorrow now can u explain 😋

Need this speedrun lore

[covert cypress]

rixia ill tell u all the lore if you carry me

[placid marten]

Hm?

[subtle quartz]

Peter the horse is here

[median quarry]

🏇

[eternal dust]

[versed echo]

https://youtu.be/UssrcZV1V4E

[versed echo]

@native crest There's a difference in uplink terminals + reactor codes

Reactor codes aren't found in logs are do require another terminal

Hence, take Bread's spreadsheet. Since that isn't readily found i.e found easily, then it'd be a hassle to either gather codes manually (which they did) or have the trouble of trying to insource it from another team

However, everyone can do uplink since it is found in logs

[native crest]

I typed a great big long thing and you just sniped me so gimme a second to adjust it

[versed echo]

Game-mechanic wise, R7E1 before update would've been a major bottleneck

Since you either had a major disadvantage or a major advantage

However, there is no gap between uplinks between teams

Word-wise, there isn't another "terminal" to go to for uplinks

1 terminal

Exception would be C3 PE, which no one has tested out yet

[native crest]

I posted it in a comment in the video, but I think it's worth bringing up here too.

Is there a ruling on if speedy uplink terminals should be allowed in speedruns?

I know that they are currently allowed, in that there is no rule that explicitly forbids them. But I suspect this may be a case of the tech having been discovered and just swept up into runs without any explicit discussion of if the tech should be allowed.

To me it seems to go against the spirit of the rule "You have to get to terminals for Codes, even if you know the code beforehand". I would say that the spirit of that rule is 'you cannot input codes before having an in-game way of knowing them'. Whether the codes are accessible from game logs or by using a speadsheet doesn't seem like a transformative difference to me.

Furthermore, it seems to make using game logs compulsory for achieving competitive times. While I think it's fine to use game logs if you so desire, I do not think they should become a requirement.

Adjusted to address the distinction between accessing codes from game logs vs spreadsheet brute force style stuff

[versed echo]

It is a major tranformative difference

One is exclusive info gathering

One is accessible to the entire public

Hence major advantage or disadvantage

The ruling of going to terminal for codes was exclusively for R7E1

Speedy uplink falls under both terminal animation cancelling and logs, both of which are allowed in any% restricted

So there was a ruling to begin with

[native crest]

How to use game logs is only 'accessible' because the information has been released (this is a good thing).

If the information spreadsheets for reactor codes had been released then they would also be 'accessible'.

I'm not sure if there is a sufficiently large distinction, and I think it is worth a discussion of whether there is a big enough difference.

I know that it is currently allowed. But as I said, I feel that this is a case of it being discovered and incorporated without a discussion of whether it should be allowed.

[versed echo]

If

A team that collected the codes and never distributed them would always hold the competitive advantage

Not to throw Bread under the bus, but I dont think anybody ever asked nor did they ever share it

[native crest]

A team that figured out how to use game logs and never distributed that knowledge would have a competitive advantage.

What is the difference?

[versed echo]

Logs were known by everyone in the community

That's the difference

Hence why we are also making information accessible as well

Regarding logs being a requirement, while it isn't, it does make a more competitive space

But it'll never be a requirement

Logs can't predict scan rng or hsu rng

So in theory you'll be able to get a better run than a team using logs

Majority of the time logs are only used to reset and find certain warden objectives

[wind cliff]

To be fully honest restricted any% should probably exclude uplinks but at the same time no one runs uplink levels with uplink skips

Like we have 3 category’s for a reason

[native crest]

All else being equal it makes completing uplinks faster than can be achieved without using game logs.

So teams with equal scan rng, one using logs, and one not, would not be on an equal playing field.

In the case of knowing where objective items are, game logs do not provide an inherent competitive advantage. A team not using game logs can still route to the optimal spawn location and reset if it is not there.

[wind cliff]

And currently restricted any% and any% are the same

[wind cliff]

Uplinks are def an advantage that is why logs in general should just be moved to any %

[versed echo]

We might be removing any%

[wind cliff]

That defeats the purpose

[versed echo]

So stick it in lawless or any% restricted

[wind cliff]

Idk man

Feels like there should be 3

Glitchless,NMG , major glitches

[versed echo]

Only reason why there's talk is because there is almost nothing in any%

[wind cliff]

Like every other speed game

Well it is almost like there is no difference currently between the categories

[versed echo]

That too

[wind cliff]

So logs black hopping and maybe some deactivating alarm sections

Then bang

We have 3 categories

[versed echo]

Won't work

We've already discussed this before

Logs is near invisible

[wind cliff]

yeah idk it will be fine

Most people be honest

[versed echo]

As a verifier, it would be too difficult to tell if a team is using logs or not

[native crest]

So rely on the competitive integrity of the runners. It's not like there's an incentive to cheat. There's no money on the line.

[ionic halo]

It's not difficult, it is straight up impossible.

[native crest]

You already rely on the integrity of the runners in terms of seeding.

[wind cliff]

We are a speed game with less than 20 runners currently

[versed echo]

Not exactly

We have tools to check for seeding

[small portal]

Just make uplink terminal a special case?

[native crest]

This is quite literally a case in which using logs is no longer invisible. They do the terminal faster

[wind cliff]

Yeah use the 3 things we have made

[small portal]

Each code has to be explicitly shown on the hud before you can put in uplink_verify

[wind cliff]

Idk seems like easy solution

[versed echo]

Putting logs into any% would just be a mess

Uplink would be easy

Bhops too

[wind cliff]

no one runs the game idk man

Feels like it would be easy

[versed echo]

I would disagree with that statement

Both, in fact

It's not easy for logs to be stuck in any%

[eternal dust]

👁️

[versed echo]

And we do have new players actually

You just haven't looked yet and we haven't mentioned it 😂

[wind cliff]

Idk man gtfo logs time is cool but it isn’t the same game as gtfo as true mentioned.

[versed echo]

If we ran the typically 3 categories true to its word, Jish, then terminal animation cancelling wouldn't be allowed, hence all R7A1 runs would have to be put into any% and logs would be impossible to check for

[wind cliff]

Feels like if we are growing 3 category’s with healthy definitions is a must

[versed echo]

We'd have to solidify the lines between the 3 categories

[wind cliff]

Yeah

[versed echo]

And any% is neigh empty

1 run in any% if I'm not mistaken

[wind cliff]

yeah because we have no lines between the two

[versed echo]

Just 1

There are lines

It's just not as run

[wind cliff]

The only one any is the Koreans

[versed echo]

No

It's not

[wind cliff]

Who don’t understand our system ??

[versed echo]

The only one in any% is Kenny

[wind cliff]

The r7e1 is any%

[versed echo]

Was there an R7E1 any%?

[wind cliff]

34 min time

Was that moved to restricted

[versed echo]

?

There was never an R7E1 any% jish

Only the chinese team that deleted their video

And peter's

Peter said any% and technically any% restricted

[wind cliff]

The Chinese team

[versed echo]

But it was already put into any% restricted

[versed echo]

Always been any% restricted

[wind cliff]

Yeah like it should be

[versed echo]

Current time right now is placeholder

[wind cliff]

But idk man seems like there should be 3 categories

[versed echo]

If there were more runs in it then there wouldn't be talk

Kenny is the only one that has an any% time

In R7A1

[wind cliff]

Ok guess I just have to be a true any restricted runner to fix the game

[upbeat tusk]

you guys should just add it in, time will tell that people will run it or not

[versed echo]

It's already in

Been in since day 1

And time has already told

[wind cliff]

No literally there is no lines between the runs

If I was uploading any of the runs I route and take part in

[versed echo]

At this point, if you need someone to explain it to you, ask Eva

[wind cliff]

Non of them would be any%

What is currently the difference

[versed echo]

Depends on what you do in the run jish

Bhopping?

[wind cliff]

What tech

[upbeat tusk]

why is the any% rule so weird

i thought any% would be anything goes, like using glitch

[wind cliff]

Yeah but that is our lawless category

It should be glitchless, NMG, major glitches

[upbeat tusk]

it just doesn't look like the tradition speedrun

[versed echo]

That was the previous categories Jish

We changed them

[wind cliff]

Yeah stupid change tbh

[versed echo]

I don't remember why it was changed

[versed echo]

Idk, half the speedrun boards say otherwise

[upbeat tusk]

you guys could change it back since it's a little confuse to read

[versed echo]

What is "tradition"?

Anymore?

[wind cliff]

idk man idc anymore

[upbeat tusk]

it was always either glitch or glitchless

or well, any% and glitchless

i'm not bother, but just a little confuse with the naming, that's all

[wind cliff]

Yeah man you and me both and I play in the runs

[versed echo]

Probably ask another verifier why they changed it

I haven't got a clue

Aka I don't remember

[wind cliff]

Idk most of the runs I am in void should probs be moved to any%

[upbeat tusk]

we could ask the mods again

[versed echo]

I think it was transition phase when I joined

[wind cliff]

It was

But there is like three verifies that run and no Admins that run currently idk man

[versed echo]

If it was glitchless%, NMG, and glitch then it'd probably be easy

logs would still be impossible no matter what

[wind cliff]

That is fine tbh most of the shit we run is nmg

Then we can have a category for the people that don’t want to do it

So it be there if they want it

[versed echo]

?

That doesn't make sense

If anything it would be blended together, no detection

Not 2 separate categories

Unless I'm misinterpreting?

[wind cliff]

no worries I give up

[versed echo]

Wait till Eva shows up

The last of the trio

Voice his opinions

In the meantime, if anyone is confused:

Terminal Animation skipping + logs are both allowed in any% restricted, hence by extension sped uplink is allowed

Any% may be removed (we have talks)

Perhaps a rollback on categories?

Idk

Probably would have to talk to the other admins on rollback

It was also in the rules button too, prechange era

With the NMG, glitchless, etc.

[upbeat tusk]

Any% (lawless), Any% Restricted (some minor glitch), glitchless (still allow logs since can't really detect)

for glitchless, is it banned to use terminal skip on uplink (or make it faster)?

[versed echo]

No, because it's a glitch

Terminal animation skip is a glitch by definition

Doorbug is a bug by definition

So doorbug = lawless

Terminal animation skip = glitch

[upbeat tusk]

ok, then it should be 100% glitchless then, logs still allow

idk logs is that big of a deal since it just help you with restart

[versed echo]

Depends on where you look

[upbeat tusk]

i speedran other game myself, learn all of the rng that can happen and just run in 1 direction.

[versed echo]

Peter and Robert and Rick would say it's bullshit

Everyone else thinks it's chill

[upbeat tusk]

they could run it without the logs, it just that they can do restart later than other people which is 3 seconds into a game

[versed echo]

Would have to get a consensus from the admins

3 major categories, 3 sub categories

[upbeat tusk]

eh... 3 categories is enough

[versed echo]

No

Because you forget Full Rundown, Story, and 100%

[upbeat tusk]

well, that's a different thing to talk about

[versed echo]

So they would be extended from NMG, glitchless

Hence subcategory

[wind cliff]

Is invisible giant bug allowed in restricted

[versed echo]

Not a bug

Is a glitch

[wind cliff]

There is no difference between these words I think

[versed echo]

There is

[upbeat tusk]

invisible giant?

[versed echo]

We had to define it today Jish

Because I needed to know difference for my video

Bug is game breaking

Glitch is not

[wind cliff]

You can shoot the left shoulder off and then shoot an un breaking head

Or the right it doesn’t matter

[upbeat tusk]

is it a glitch or desync issue

[versed echo]

No

[wind cliff]

The head will be invisible

It is a bug

[versed echo]

Glitch, Jish

There is an actual difference in definition

Search it up

Eva had to for me

[upbeat tusk]

tru type a little long, so let see what he has to say

[versed echo]

Bug would be like early drop or doorbug

Very game breaking

[native crest]

There is a difference between bug (programming) and bug (gameplay).

Bug (programming) is anything not working as intended. Bug (programming) can cause glitches.

Bug (gameplay) is a genuinely functionality breaking problem.

Glitch is a minor break in gameplay.

Jish is probably thinking of bug (programming).

[versed echo]

probably

[wind cliff]

Yeah what the word actually means

[native crest]

Words have different meanings in different contexts. Here the context was unclear, so entirely understandable.

[versed echo]

Well if you told me you were thinking CS wise lol maybe I could clarify further

Shoulda known tho since you do cs

[wind cliff]

Okay cool love that

[native crest]

language. smile.

[wind cliff]

No I frown

No smile only sad

[wind cliff]

Not descyn the head just doesn’t have a trigger to go away when you break the shoulder

[upbeat tusk]

oh that

like a neck shot but the head break as well, right?

[wind cliff]

Yeah

You can just shoot head

Save on 1.5 main ammo

Allows pr to kill in 1 mag from front

Lol

[upbeat tusk]

a minor inconvenience

[versed echo]

Works with all giants

Besides chargers

[upbeat tusk]

but a good one

[versed echo]

Chargers dont have heads

[wind cliff]

It works with chargers just no head multi

It also works with strikers

And shadows

But they don’t have enough health

And shadow scouts

Lol

[versed echo]

Good luck killing a shadow scout using invis head

basically alert it

[wind cliff]

You have to let it go off

To use the tech

[versed echo]

lol

[wind cliff]

Very useful

Very game breaking tbh

[versed echo]

[subtle quartz]

tank scout

[placid marten]

there is actually a way to complete the uplink in a similar manner. Its just way more of a hassle. (You technically have to do right code -> wrong code -> right code in a loop) this is roughly half as quick as the current skip but is perfectly doable without logs.

[placid marten]

Logless category does not work
unless you trust every runner to not use them for it. And the runs would be the absolute same as log runs with the exception of gather mission

„Most people be honest“ doesnt work. 1 dishonest person would ruin it. And having a category where theres no distinction makes no sense

[placid marten]

technically more btw

Its just that roughly 12 of the runners (i know of) arent english speaking

[placid marten]

regardind what i said below. This would make no log uplink skip impossible aswell. And that one needs no help

[placid marten]

Any% usually is the fastest way to play a game without completely breaking it. Banning specific glitches (for us its doorbug/shooter bug rn)

[tired patio]

(what is shooter bug?)

[placid marten]

It was 1 category before

Then we made 3:
The ones we have right now

Making shooters miss you unless they have higher elevation than you

Regarding the categories

Uplink skip certainly is debatable. The point tru made makes sense.

Depending on if we rly want the lowest category to be glitchless,
or glitchless with semi intended mechanics (this way standard terminal skip would stay)

Otherwise This would lead to a good portion of runs to be moved to any%. (Example, r2b3, r7a1, r7d2). With the exact same run plus 1-2 seconds time being done in glitchless

Question for everyone who was reading here. Its something ive been thinking about in context to the 3 categories:

What is the opinion on moving:
Uplink skip to the middle category but leaving normal terminal skip in the lowest?

Other things to possibly include in the current any% category

Deactivate alarms tech
Ladder foam?

[eternal dust]

Hmm not sure ladder foam is fine, deactivate allarms can be tricky lets say the old R6 D3 where you could turn off more than was intended you could say

[placid marten]

yea

Its moreso so that we can make any% distinct from both lawless (easy) and restricted

ladderfoam is technically abusing a bug

[eternal dust]

Is it?

[placid marten]

I mean we can both agree that its not intended right?

Sleepers having a limit on ladders most likely is. But them being frozen on them to completely stop alarm waves for up to 4 minutes probably not?

Also hi tru

[eternal dust]

Well i whould take it as lets say a perma foamed door or ground at specific hallways

[placid marten]

isse with ladder foam is that you can keep them stuck for up to 4 minutes with just 60% foam sometimes

meanwhile door and ground foam barely last 20 seconds with that

Im mostly just pointing these out so we can make any% more distinct

cuz @wind cliff made a good point earlier

[native crest]

Unintended consequence of intended mechanics. It's an abuse for sure, but it's hard to say it's a truly gamebreaking bug. I'd love to see a category with banned ladder foam, but it'd be hard to find a reasonable defense.

Not that we need a reasonable defense. "no enemy = boring" is fine with me, but I know others have stricter morals regarding such things.

[eternal dust]

Yup

[placid marten]

i wouldnt put it in lawless (like door bug)

but any%

same as uplink skip would be

[eternal dust]

Dont feel like its even close to the same

[placid marten]

if the speedrun community finds an agreement

[placid marten]

if bugs had to be close to the same all the time wed have a million categories

Its also noteable how much ladderfoam speeds up runs its used in

Dont take me wrong btw. I can argue in both directions

[native crest]

I've still got a lot of thoughts swirling around regarding categories, so I can't present a fully formed opinion.

The only thing I am pretty sure on at the moment is regarding lawless...

I think that inherently any category that allows boosters will have a reduced level of competitiveness/player interest. Booster farming sucks, no one wants to do it. But it's still nice to have a category for it so that runs involving boosters can be showcased to see just how far you can take the game.

Furthermore, it doesn't make any sense to split each category into booster/boosterless. There's not enough demand and it would lead to a lot of dead categories. So as a result it makes the most sense for boosters to be allowed only in the most 'extreme' category.

So, by having boosters allowed, our most extreme category is inherently going to have reduced competitiveness, and be more of a showcase/exhibition style category.

The other observation is that certain highly gamebreaking glitches (blackhopping) also have reduced player interest, and are often only run in a showcase style anyway.

Thus (to me), it makes sense to put these in the same category.

Yes, it means lawless would have a mix of booster runs and non-booster runs, and it'd really be a bit of a hodge-podge of runs that can't really be compared, but that doesn't matter because it's not really a competitive category already. It'd be a category for showcasing just how broken you can make the game. It'd be the category for going "oh hey, did you see the 1:01 crazy glitchy R8F1, damn that was wild" and then continuing on with your day and not trying to beat it because it's a gloriously silly and broken category and if you want the competitiveness of trying to beat times then other categories already suit that better.

TLDR: put blackhopping and boosters into lawless and make it into a showcase/exhibition category

Of course, this would effectively nullify any% as it currently exists, which would open up room for a new category where we draw a line between some of the currently allowed glitches/abuses/techs. I don't know where this line would go, and it would require a lot of discussion.

[placid marten]

effectively this just comes back to the general discussion rn + blackhops

[native crest]

ye! but I think fixing current any% is a good prerequisite for discussing any kind of new any%

[placid marten]

imo logs is a non topic at this point

The infos are being distributed fairly and they are undetectable + runs mostly dont change whether you have them or not

Terminal skip imo is by far the smallest glitch. And is the closest to an intended mechanic aside from deactivate alarms. But with way less impact

Imo this should also be allowed in all categories

The others to discuss rn are:

• blackhops
• deactivate alarms
• ladder foam
• uplink skip

[tired patio]

(what are blackhops?)

[native crest]

movement tech that lets you move at sprint speed while carrying heavy stuff like cells

[placid marten]

Completely ignores slowdown of stamina (and spear) or heavy objects in return for worse maneuverability and the inability to fight while moving

Once stopped youll be at max stam

[tired patio]

where would i go about learning these less-than-intended mechanics?

[native crest]

stupid hard without macros, so very inconsistent and generally not fun to put into runs

[placid marten]

in roughly 1 week

Either on the speedrun discord or speedrun.com

We are currently working on making guides rhat are easy to understan

[placid marten]

iirc most speedrunning players can do 1-3 somewhat consistently

but 5+ is where it gets unreliable. And youd want at minimum 10+ if not an unlimited chain in many levels

[gritty atlas]

[placid marten]

I forwarded the topic to the mod/verifyer chat

[languid narwhal]

Where does the name blackhop come from

Backhop and momentum hop make more sense than black hop

[upbeat tusk]

because the one that found it call it that

just like people calling immortal Pablo

[median quarry]

So let me get this straight, by using logs to check the needed commands you can basically terminate a whole 3 code uplink in 10 seconds or less

I've seen void's video

Am I interpreting that correctly?

[upbeat tusk]

yes

if you're a fast typer

[median quarry]

I wont comment any further other than saying that it's hilarious

I've never speedrunned and I'll probably never do it, dont worry I wont use that stuff

But now I have some context to what you guys were talking about before

[ionic halo]

technically speaking, it's just a more advanced usage of the "terminal skip" where you use a smaller command to skip the animations of longer commands, you "just" skip the uplink animation where it accepts the correct code and goes to the next one

That's the gist on how it works

[vernal glen]

for the uplink thing you're changing it to rng instead

if you dont use logs

you can still do it at the exact same speed

you just hope you get the codes right

the advantage isn't that you're faster

[ionic halo]

which would be what, 1/(800^3) in terms of probablity?

[vernal glen]

you also skip the failed part with the annimation skip

so like

you can just try again

instantly

and the gathering codes thing with that spreadsheet i already told you was because of a bug

that has been fixed now

[placid marten]

i can still see the point of it needing logs to be applicable

making any% more distinctive truly wouldnt be bad

[vernal glen]

you actually get the 2bil seed range properly

so that shit doesn't work anymore

[round kite]

Unfortunately :(

[vernal glen]

unless you're gonna gather info on 2bil seeds

[round kite]

I miss my r7e1 reactor codes skip

[vernal glen]

which you'd probably use a mod for

if you dont allow logs we will still be faster with the skip thing

you will still have a disadvantage if you're not willing to use the tech

it is what it is

unless you start fully banning everything

same with the bhop

currently not allowed to chain specifically?

but single jump is fine

it's the same principle tho

you can jump once with your carry item

you can jump once for your reload

too many bugs in this game to ban everything

you do shit by accident even

[languid narwhal]

I accidentally seeded my run 🥹

[covert cypress]

hate it when that happens

[vernal glen]

its ok as long as you dont beat R2E1 wr

[placid marten]

tbf you can „ban“ or rather „move“ the glitches to any%

Making any% an actual category

Could be this for restricted:

• Blackhops, chaining jumps is forbidden and pretty obvious
• uplink skip. Make it so the code has to be visible on the screen.
• deactivate alarms and ladder foam would also be quite obvious

[vernal glen]

that uplink thing doesn't make sense cuz it kinda clashes with how uplinks were probably meant to be

who's screen

fast uplink without use of extra tech is not exiting the terminal but learning the code through a friend

[placid marten]

the funny thing is

the fastest tech without logs

is

terminal skipping each verify uniquely

but since it clears the screen you gotta put in a wrong code

so it shows the actual X07 or whatever again

[vernal glen]

huge

[placid marten]

or you are lucky

how many get shown on screen again?

is it like 7 codesv

8?

[vernal glen]

6 or 8

[placid marten]

Oof

Thats rough

1/216

for a 3 code uplink

if its 6

wait nvm

First ones free

[vernal glen]

you say that but you make me reset R1A1 460 times

[placid marten]

But a 5 code with 6 would still be a 1/1296

i mean a 1/1296 (more likely even higher) for smth like R2B3 is not funny

still its an issue

the ruling „need to see the codes on screen“ wont be enough. Since youll lose around 3+ seconds per code that way if you guess wrong

would have to be smth like „cant terminal skip on uplink unless its the last code“

[languid narwhal]

Why are you using inverted quotes

Can we make a ruling to not do that

[vernal glen]

how i used inverted quotes to beat the R2E1 wr

[placid marten]

Hm?

[languid narwhal]

„seeded run"

[placid marten]

if you mean this „

Then thats just how it works where i live keyboard wise lol

[languid narwhal]

I didn't know that about French keyboards

[placid marten]

[languid narwhal]

Sorry you can continue

Stop posting anime under my messages

[ionic halo]

He's not french though? 🤔

[languid narwhal]

Final warning ⚠️

[placid marten]

The only way i can not put the lower one

Is if i type a 2nd one (making it go up) and then the word and then another one. And then delete the lower one 😐 yeah nah

[languid narwhal]

He's either French or whatever black dragon is

Those are the two I know

Nationalities

[versed echo]

🗿

[covert cypress]

LMAO

[versed echo]

You assume too much beep

[languid narwhal]

Sorry I am ignorant

[covert cypress]

Americans 🙄

[vernal glen]

how are u gonna check terminal rules if there's no pov of terminal usage

what if i bhopped while the recording guy looked away

[covert cypress]

devious

[vernal glen]

accidently** broken keyboard

[covert cypress]

yeyeye

[placid marten]

Its not like you cant catch that

and if it happens that results in a reject and probably a small time ban or smth similar

[versed echo]

We also rely somewhat on the integrity of the runners

[vernal glen]

codes dont show if you are far away

[covert cypress]

what if I start spear kiting when the recording guy isn’t looking

[vernal glen]

HOW

[placid marten]

people cheat in minecraft speedruns

they get catched

[versed echo]

Eva….

They BARELY get catches

[placid marten]

Thats actually not true

[versed echo]

Biggest scammer wasn’t caught till he admitted

[placid marten]

[covert cypress]

I mean how many cases in gtfo have there been of people cheating

[placid marten]

they get massive amounts of people cheating

most get catched

[covert cypress]

I can think of pitski and that’s it

[placid marten]

the rly rly good ones dont

[dull forum]

she is so speedy with her hopping you cant catch her

[covert cypress]

Exactly

hi Lea

[placid marten]

Lea

[versed echo]

If anything Eva MC is Single-player, GTFO is multi

Recordings would have to differ a bit

[dull forum]

hi ily big fan

[versed echo]

Wesley makes good points w/ blind eyes

[covert cypress]

<3

[vernal glen]

you're not allowing the shooter thing currently

you literally have no way of knowing for all 4 players lol

[versed echo]

I mean, for uplink, you could tell by just how fast Warden Objective is done

But you wouldn’t notice unless you were looking for it

But you can’t catch bhopping if it isn’t “shown”

Etc.

[placid marten]

Thats the verifyer job then

[vernal glen]

projectile bug happens without the player themselves noticing

[covert cypress]

This is true

[versed echo]

I mean, it always our job

But even MC verifiers, mods, admins miss stuff sometimes

We’re bound to too

[placid marten]

in how many scenarios is a person never looking in the direction of any teammate who might be carrying a heavy object

I mean yea

[versed echo]

People running in front of them

[placid marten]

we are humans

[versed echo]

Eva

[placid marten]

in the end its always down to the integridy of the runners

[covert cypress]

do you trust the runners mr eva

[placid marten]

and then once they turn around the heavy object is still right next to them? -> easy find

[versed echo]

If we did R7A1 I don’t even have to look at you carrying HSU the entire level

And you could be bhopping when I’m NOT looking at you

Then walk when I am

[placid marten]

nah thats calculatable

you cant go faster than a certain speed

[vernal glen]

what if there was a mistake eva

and we got back on track with it

you didnt see the mistake

[placid marten]

and the one recording never looked in that direction? Not once?

[vernal glen]

you didnt see how it caught back up

[versed echo]

I’m just saying there is human error factor and ambiguous POV

Obviously be best for different video POVs for sure

And it does come down to integrity

You can’t force people to record

So its nailed on integrity more

[placid marten]

you can :p

[versed echo]

It’s just required for video proof

Across all speedrun.com

[placid marten]

not necesarily actually

[versed echo]

Forcing everyone to record could cause backlash

[placid marten]

but thats usually exceptions

[placid marten]

obviously

but i tell ya

[versed echo]

It says majority of boards require it, as stated by speedrun.com (and the respective boards)

[placid marten]

if anyone is mental enough to subtly cheat in every speedrun

Do you think theyll never be catched?

[versed echo]

They may or may not

[placid marten]

The same thing is going on rn

i dont see your point

the only way to circumvent this

is to have only 1 category

that allows all glitches

[versed echo]

That still leaves ambiguity in glitchless?

Again, POV bhopping

[vernal glen]

more so my point was that you're making it harder and harder for yourself the more things you ban from the other categories

[versed echo]

Regardless, I’ve already stated it’s nailed down to the integrity of the runners

[placid marten]

This is also works pretty clearly

Wanna break the rules and think you wont get caught? Fuck around and find out what happens?

[versed echo]

I doubt any of the active runners would

[versed echo]

You also have to realize there is a possibility they dont get caught

[placid marten]

tbf its not hard to check for most situations

[covert cypress]

I don’t think it matters that much team

[placid marten]

you gotta realize that intentionally looking away or uplink skipping is noticeable

[versed echo]

I said uplink skipping was noticeable already?

[placid marten]

thats always the case void..

Until they do

[vernal glen]

only 2 speedrun teams

[covert cypress]

Yup

Tragic

[placid marten]

2 speedrun teams
but over 20 speedrunners ?

[covert cypress]

Wesley you should start bhopping when no one’s looking

See how long it takes for people to notice

[versed echo]

I mean he could

[placid marten]

its specificaly with heavy objects

[versed echo]

If it was noticed it’d just be placed into any%

[placid marten]

where its noticeable

[placid marten]

eh

Hed get asked first

[covert cypress]

no one’s gonna notice me bhopping from r2d2 reactor to spawn

I am simply a ghost

[versed echo]

I’m only stating in terms of point a to b straight line

[placid marten]

that… isnt gonna do anything?

[vernal glen]

liquid bug on recorder

GO HAM

[versed echo]

Stamina

[covert cypress]

Yea but it’ll be really funny

[round kite]

Liquid 👀 XD

[vernal glen]

why would it not do anything eva

[placid marten]

Wait dods that bug actually block the bottom right version ID?

[vernal glen]

did you forget that bhop is so much more than just heavy item

[placid marten]

i know

but all the recording player just randomly looks away while on extract?

[covert cypress]

eva did you know you can go from r7c2 bulkhead key zone first room all the way to generator cluster without losing momentum

[placid marten]

Definetly not sus :^ )

[covert cypress]

I think it’s pretty funny

[versed echo]

Everyone would be running wouldn’t they?

[vernal glen]

what if he's dead

what if he grabbed the code

so hes nowhere near

[round kite]

I just download a mod that lets me run with heavy obj. Problem solved

[versed echo]

💀

[placid marten]

guys

what shit are you talking right now

[vernal glen]

just have more latency

[placid marten]

Thats insane

[round kite]

Eva host

[covert cypress]

I wish I recorded it man

[vernal glen]

new rule do not hold shift while carrying item

[placid marten]

ah yes loosing speed to gain speed :^ )

[vernal glen]

he grab the code tho

[placid marten]

the code for what?

[vernal glen]

the reactor

[versed echo]

[placid marten]

theres no time gain if you hop to reactor wtf

you can just be there in advance

[vernal glen]

you're too limited

[versed echo]

Okay so bhop to reactor in advance

[round kite]

What even is this argument

[vernal glen]

you can't think of a possible level where the last code would be deep

[versed echo]

[round kite]

I’m so lost

[placid marten]

Trolling at this point

[covert cypress]

we do a little hopping

[placid marten]

litteraly the only case where i can see what you mean

is r7e1

and the runner/code getter is the one who bhops

[vernal glen]

and many other places but smaller

[placid marten]

yes

but in any of those cases

if the one recordinf look

its fucked

[covert cypress]

I wanna try that actually

Holy shit

[vernal glen]

you can remove player outline in settings

[placid marten]

hm?

then we make that mandatory?

???

[versed echo]

💀

[placid marten]

like bruh

[covert cypress]

Imagine you can go the whole way from final code in r7e1 reactor to the extraction with bhop

[placid marten]

you can

[versed echo]

Doesn’t player outlines basically become minuscule and disappear at long distances too?

[covert cypress]

holy shit

[vernal glen]

yeh

[covert cypress]

my time has come friends

[placid marten]

iirc names still bounce with jumps tho?

[versed echo]

Yea but it’s small

[placid marten]

yeah but it matters

[vernal glen]

what if i just jumped normally

[versed echo]

I’m not saying it doesn’t

[placid marten]

if you jumped normally 5 times in a row youd fuck the run

[vernal glen]

no because im carrying a cell

[versed echo]

[vernal glen]

[placid marten]

Yep right guys

all runs lawless now

im just gonna make food

deal with that shit yourself

[versed echo]

[covert cypress]

solid work team

Same time next week?

[vernal glen]

[versed echo]

Sorry Eva I had to

Lmao

It’s too funny

[covert cypress]

I don’t even remember what the original conversation was about

[versed echo]

NMG, Glitchless, Glitch

Category changes + alignment

[round kite]

Seeded category when

😎

[versed echo]

[covert cypress]

that seems like a good idea tbh

[round kite]

@ gtfodevs

Add in seed manipulation

[covert cypress]

can we speedrun Minecraft in gtfo

[round kite]

Unless they implement it into the actual game I don’t think it will ever be allowed

True!

[covert cypress]

Oh I meant the categories bread

But seeding would be cool too

[vernal glen]

seeded levels would be 0 enemies for most stealth

cuz they all spawn in rooms you dont go to

[covert cypress]

yup