gtfo-lore

[burnt wren]

Goddammit, how is his name written again?

[sweet harbor]

Schaeffer?

Schaeffeur?

Le Schaeffeaur

Sorry I've been drinking again

[dreamy hornet]

Where are the artificial units discussed? The weird being that Schaeffer met that freaked him out?

[eternal talon]

that is one of them yes, we make one in rundown 2/3, we find the result of one with Unit22 in dx pictured here, and the mission label of r7a1 is "unit 23"

they were previously of Project Rise, however the WRDN has been using and modifying what is left of that program to create these Units

[dreamy hornet]

Ooo, right Rise was to make clones for KDS and now the WRDN is doing evils

[eternal talon]

no, no clones

so, project RISE was designed to be a replacement to/alternative for the Legion program, of which we are a part of

how rise works, essentially is taking human "seeds" and rapidly growing them into adults to fight for Kovac, though this program was never finished before the complex went under, as they were still having issues with these adults having the mental capacity of children

[dreamy hornet]

Oo interesting, so I assume the neonates we move around are those seeds?

[eternal talon]

here is the log talking about rise being an alternative to legion, https://www.notion.so/ab68b94496bd4b27bec291de65ebd510?v=9c98784771d740f3b605ff63763b4963&p=255b2fca66ab443790dc2d010a41ac28

here is the log talking about how RISE works https://www.notion.so/ab68b94496bd4b27bec291de65ebd510?v=9c98784771d740f3b605ff63763b4963&p=bd87743403c54cd3a931792bbf13480e

[eternal talon]

no, the neonates are a sort of middle stage. they are babies.

they are the inbetween between the "seeds" and the adult Subjects, or Units as they are now called

"seeds" as referred to in the log are simply just.. human male reproductive material

[dreamy hornet]

Huh..that's now how mammalian reproduction works but time to read some logs.

Female derived gametes would be better if you're looking to grow a person

[eternal talon]

we know very little of how rise works other than what is said in the "push for faster growth" log.

that is the primary log that around 80% of our information on it comes from

i mean there are only 7 logs even related to it, and half of that stuff is related to the warden looking into rise itself

[dreamy hornet]

Male derived gametes are basically just dna torpedos (for a very crude analogy) so I got stuck up on that. The idea of fast growing humans is more interesting

[eternal talon]

also this log specifically says "... are not clones. rise uses existing genetic material" https://www.notion.so/ab68b94496bd4b27bec291de65ebd510?v=9c98784771d740f3b605ff63763b4963&p=72d724eb801648ea9e98bef50df64916

[eternal talon]

a before e, is how i remember it

[dreamy hornet]

"... are not clones. rise uses existing genetic material" - I read that as " we mushed a sperm and an egg together to make a fertilized zygoted, then scienced it to make it grow fast"

[eternal talon]

basically, yes.

[dreamy hornet]

but that's ugly, in that it allows for a lot of variances in the resulting zygote

[eternal talon]

human zerg

if you've played starcraft

[dreamy hornet]

unless they have some awesome dna screening capacity, there's a lot of variability between each Rise subject

which would impact just about everything down stream

[eternal talon]

alas, we don't know. the project was never finished

[dreamy hornet]

bad sloppy horribly dead scientists bad

[eternal talon]

and warden isn't exactly continuing it, as whatever he is doing is involving nam-v into the mix to make his "units"

that are invisible to sleepers

[dreamy hornet]

So the WRDN either has highly advanced knowledge of gene splicing or is literally showing darts at a board and seeing what happens

[eternal talon]

it's darts. 1 second

[dreamy hornet]

We have no frame of reference for what year it is for the prisoners right?

[eternal talon]

it is 2064

right now

this is warden looking into RISE stocks immediately before rundown 3, the rundown where we presumably make the first Unit

https://www.notion.so/ab68b94496bd4b27bec291de65ebd510?v=9c98784771d740f3b605ff63763b4963&p=80805958a8554193a11e4752a48189cf

[dreamy hornet]

So we're looking, at best, a decade of time for the WRDN to muck around with genetics to produce a being that is invisible to sleepers but still functional

That's either super computer level fkery or really lucky dart throwing

[eternal talon]

r2 ends on june 12th, 2063 when he has us go and gather a neonate. he is looking into how to proccess it on the 17th, about a week later

as the https://twitter.com/GTFO_The_Warden dates are canon for the rundowns

The Warden (@GTFO_The_Warden)

Followers

2019

Tweets

63

Twitter

[dreamy hornet]

I always forget that those are canon

[eternal talon]

its the only way we know when stuff takes place during gameplay

as literally none of it is dated

only pre-apocalypse stuff

[final sentinel]

Oh so that’s why R5 stuff took so long to release

Interesting, thats so cool

[dreamy hornet]

I'm curious to see where these "Units" go, fast grown genetically modified humans is quite a feat of bioengineering for somewhere that's a few steps away from being a biological hell

[eternal talon]

you weren't the only ones waiting, the devs were too.

[dreamy hornet]

Side note, do we have any idea what the giant mass of tissue we've seen in the ceilings is?

I don't recall seeing any discussions of the giant biomass in logs

[eternal talon]

this stuff?

it is Charger Biomass. though we don't know exactly what for or what does

there was a heated discussion about this yesterday in relation to e1.

[eternal talon]

according to the state of truth logs, by the end of 2058, all of humanity on the surface would be dead. (though we know this can't be the case because of isolationist people), but there really isn't much left to turn into a biological hell

all of humanity is just scattered groups of survivors, and us down in garganta.

[dreamy hornet]

Charger Biomass? that's concerning

[dreamy hornet]

O I meant down in Garganta. The surface is either going to be completely dead or all animal life dead depending on whether or not NAM-V can infect plant life.

[eternal talon]

https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?v=f8d9917211a143d790dcac03396aac9e&p=2e0731e9db67496cb59bc35e466a7d4f as early as 2053

[dreamy hornet]

I remember finding those logs in game and assuming that was sleepers.

[eternal talon]

it could be

[dreamy hornet]

But if that was charger biomass before the explosion..hm

do we know how many people were in garganta prior to it going sideways? That's a lot of biomass to pull out of nowhere

[eternal talon]

as far as i am aware, we only have evidence to point to us, schaeffer, and henrikson being alive and active in the complex right now

aside from us and other KSOs, everyone is dead.

Schaeffer talks early on about finding hundreds of them in a cafeteria, and not mentioning finding anybody on his way to KDS deep and when he got there, all the KSOs were already in Hydrostasis.

https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?v=f8d9917211a143d790dcac03396aac9e&p=5277cdc6c7b24e02924afbee55be697b log PRG-TLX-778

[dreamy hornet]

Welp that's a lot of biomass for the ~~zerg ~~virus to work with

[eternal talon]

this is probably far and away, the best and most informative log we have on both nam-v, and its relation to the parasite.

[eternal talon]

this log is in October. it is after the parasite and such got out of the inner, that happened about a month beforehand, at least as early as with the Allen Autopsy, if not slightly before. https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?v=f8d9917211a143d790dcac03396aac9e&p=5a665d8b1b634e1490c04998f04e9cb5

[dreamy hornet]

That log is what turns things from "huh this is a weird viral thing" into "o...its a WMD"

[eternal talon]

yes

a bioweapon designed or found by the allens, that made its way to us.

[dreamy hornet]

I'm looking forward to R8+ as we learn more about it and hope that one day we'll get some form of aggregated official lore

[eternal talon]

wdym aggregated?

[dreamy hornet]

Some form of official lore book from 10 Chambers on how everything went down. It will likely never happen, or not for some time but I can dream

[eternal talon]

the best we have is community timelines

i have the "GTFO lore for dummies" doc if you'd like to give it a read, most introductory summaries are pinned in here

as for official resources, we have the santonian website,

but that really just lists all logs in order of release

it does have some exclusive logs sometimes though that aren't in-game

[rain bronze]

Ok so what I understand is that:

• Woods killed a group of Marines, sent to the Legion
• Dauda worked for the wrong people and got sent to the Legion
• Hackett volutarely joined the Legion
• Bishop was tortured and later sent to the Legion

Is a short summary of why are the playable prisoners inside the Complex

[eternal talon]

no

woods: correct

dauda: was a scientist working for project insight, was corned by sleepers breaking down the door and got into an hsu

hackett: correct

bishop: correct kinda. bishop got blackmail on his boss, they sent him to work in an active warzone for years, he survived, so they wiped his history as if he didn't exist, then forced him in

[rain bronze]

👁️👁️ I see, poor Dauda got into hydrostasis

[eternal talon]

listen to this https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?v=f8d9917211a143d790dcac03396aac9e&p=e88e8057ffa544ecb9498f162736cc49

MBCQ-11W-MDU.LOG

[rain bronze]

Yeah, I kind of saw that Bishop was sent to different places, expecting him to die but he didn't

[eternal talon]

its an audio log

[rain bronze]

[eternal talon]

now he is a mindless KSO

he remembers very little, if anything about his past life.

[rain bronze]

I remember that the prisoners get their memory wiped out every time they come back of extraction

This is so because they enter hydrostatis

I think it goes that way

[eternal talon]

stays in hydrostasis wipe memories

the longer you stay the more you lose

most KSOs were left in for years

[rain bronze]

Nice, I have a great idea for tomorrow

[eternal talon]

oh?

[rain bronze]

What's KSO?

[eternal talon]

kovac security operatives

us

[rain bronze]

Homemade hydrostatis

[eternal talon]

mindless soldiers that work for the BIOCOM network

[rain bronze]

Interesting

I should check on some videos about the lore another day

[eternal talon]

if you are new to the lore, i HIGHLY reccomend reading the LFD in the pins

here is a copy

it explains and summarizes most of the lore.

[rain bronze]

I read some of it and seems to be very solid

Appreciate it

[hasty condor]

hi all, I'm new to the game but I'm a lore fiend for sure. I was wondering what you guys thought about the wardens origins

I've had a lot of players tell me it's just BIOCOM, but it seems to me more like it's an outside influence to biocom

[finite vine]

I personally think that there is a group of scientists/ people that injected the WRDN into the BIOCOM system for their own gain. Potentially, to find a cure for NAM-V, and they are using their own code to override BIOCOM and take control of the complex and its resources.

The main problem with this theory is the fact that NAM-V is really deadly, and its very likely that most of the world population has deceased. However, I still think there could be some isolated groups that have the resources capable to survive/ evade NAM-V. For example, Kovac knew of a way to slow the symptoms of NAM-V using hydrostasis. Also, the WHO was looking for the origins of the virus and Garganta during 2058. So, maybe they found it.

I don't really believe that the warden is just a program tbh

[eternal talon]

it is not biocom. biocom and the warden have been fighting for control for almost a decade.

the warden is a DI injected into the biocom network that took it over

[hasty condor]

that's some pretty deep analysis there. I agree, I don't think the warden is just a program either. I was kinda kicking around that it could be some kind of an alien intelligence, artificial or natural or somewhere between

[hasty condor]

I think I need to peruse that lore for dummies lol

[eternal talon]

it covers all the basics

o7

[hasty condor]

I'm on it cap lol

[south lake]

Frankly, given how secretive-bordering-on-paranoia Kovac was about BIOCOM

I can't help but wonder if WRDN is from a competitor company.

Maybe WRDN is an attempt at sabotage and corporate espionage, both?

Lock out BIOCOM, find out what it can, sometimes under the guise of lying about certain protocols (Restoration, etc.)

WRDN has already proven to be capable of.. obfuscating the reasons behind and intent of an objective, whether by lies of omission or otherwise

So it stands to reason that it can flat out lie, if it determines it to be tactically necessary to ensure cooperation and mission completion.

Except, if most of humanity has succumbed to the virus, chances are that if WRDN was inserted by a competitor, they're long since dead and WRDN is simply acting on the parameters set for it.

Something like Project Legion and the like would be.. immensely valuable assets for competitor PMCs, after all.

And it would take one or several individuals with knowledge of how a DI works to design something like WRDN and insert it into the mainframe under the guise of a virus.

And given how secretive KDS was about BIOCOM, it stands to reason that DIs are not common knowledge.

Anywho, just a small brainstorm on my part. I have no idea if I'm even remotely close to correct.

Better to get it out there though.

[abstract shuttle]

We know that warden and biocom are fighting nonstop over control of the complex.

[abstract shuttle]

This would support that

[hasty condor]

what about the mimic that's talked about in some of Schaeffer's logs?

I feel like it could be the warden trying to create a biological body, or something biological that it can use, which is what makes me wonder about it being something besides a regular artificial intelligence

[finite vine]

the “mimic” that was killed in rundown 6 (specimen 22) seemed like an attempt at creating a human that was invisible to the sleepers. because in one of the “mimic” audio logs, Schaeffer said that it just walked past the sleepers and they didn’t attack it. Maybe the warden is trying to create a human/ soldier that is invisible to sleepers and immune to NAM-V, to give humanity a fighting chance.

It also seems that the warden is actively trying to understand where the sleepers and native destination life (flyers and kraken) came from, because it downloaded that “genome database”.

[snow yarrow]

btw acording current log and extrapolation, how many people are left on the earth for now? (or how many people died)

[hasty condor]

mm I gotcha, makes sense. warden definitely does not seem to be malicious

[south lake]

Uhh.. Before or after all the times it's gotten teams killed by triggering alarms on purpose because they were considering disobeying orders?

It has no qualms about triggering an endless swarm with careful use of alarms if it has reason to believe you're going to go against your Stack orders.

Not in-game, of course, but there's been a few mentions of it in the lore IIRC

[finite vine]

well malicious towards the prisoners, maybe. but it’s possible that the wardens overall objective is non-malicious.

[hasty condor]

yea I dunno warden could be considered a "good guy", but I don't think it's out to destroy humanity or anything like that

[finite vine]

have you ever seen/ read the maze runner series? I think GTFO might end up having a similar story. The overall objective the warden is trying to complete is actually in favor of humanity, not against. And the warden will do whatever it takes to complete that objective, including sacrificing prisoners and growing humans in containers.

[hasty condor]

uh I've seen the first movie I think? I couldn't tell ya much about it though, it's been so long ago. but yea I'm with you on that. it def sees the prisoners as expendable and does things a human would consider unethical. To be honest, I really didn't think there was much of any story being developed for GTFO but I'm happy to see there is

It's the kind of story telling I really like too, as far leaving a lot to mystery and developing story thru gameplay

[eternal talon]

Currently it is 2064.
Lore says all of humanity would be dead by 2059.
I wouldn't say more than 30-60k people.

[dreamy hornet]

Eh the guy was kind of a monster, there's a log, I believe from this rundown, that is an entry from him on the experiments he ran on people

[rain bronze]

I think it was Hackett who also was kind out of his mind. He killed a group of civilians (or refugees something like that) and after not feeling the smallest remorse, he was like "yeah screw this"

[dreamy hornet]

ya Hackett seems to have chosen the "i can't redeem myself in death so lets see how this mind wiping goes" path

[eternal talon]

He also accidentally shot and killed his mother and brother

So..

[rain bronze]

Accidentally?

[eternal talon]

Yes, accidentally.

[rain bronze]

[dreamy hornet]

Ya... it reads like a familial curse

[keen mantle]

I would kinda agree to that based on C1 of this rundown

That C1 WRDN response scared me to shit when I was told “Access Denied”

[eternal talon]

It couldn't have though, because 1) it picked us up after that with a freight lift, 2) it sends us to go do d1

Which is another important mission for it

[burnt wren]

Yep

Very weird

Seems like a conflict of interests

Either Hendrikson did something, or Warden found a security protocol that even he can't access

The latter, frankly, being a more worrisome possibility

That was a very weird room BTW.

[keen mantle]

The C1 room?

[burnt wren]

Yep.

[eternal talon]

detailed pics of that room

[nova valley]

something escaped

[lilac island]

So what is nam v, parasite?

[eternal talon]

Please read the "for dummies" doc in the pins, it is summarized there

Essentially, nam-v is a bioweapon, designed or found by the ancient aliens that destroyed their civilization

At some point, it came across and made a symbiotic pairing with the parasite

[lilac island]

Oh so nam v isnt the virus itself

[eternal talon]

Nam-v itself can infect in any circumstance, and is 100% lethal and has no cure

Nam-v is the virus

The parasite has highly mutagenic properties and is what creates the sleepers

Nam-v keeps the parasite and its hosts alive for an undetermined, possibly infinite length of time

The parasite forms hives and mutates hosts infected to fill needs in the hive

With the forms mutated depending highly on the person infected

[lilac island]

And the parasites came from the asteroid right?

[eternal talon]

It is for this reason most shooters are females, and most strikers male

[eternal talon]

Both the parasite and the virus came from the meteor, yes.

[lilac island]

And wtf is up with the red spooky planet then?

[eternal talon]

That is destination

The homeworld of the allens

It is in a different plain of existence to ours

Or at least this version is

[lilac island]

Like dimension?

[eternal talon]

There, the fundamental laws of the universe are different, with time moving 85:1 faster

[eternal talon]

No, but kinda

[lilac island]

Bruh the lore is much trippier than i expected

[eternal talon]

Each world line is essentially running parallel since the start of the universe

And are separated by the frequencies that all matter vibrate at

They all exist simultaneously, but you can't perceive or interact with them

We can go to their destination because a version of it also exists in our world line, that the coordinates lock on to.

That is how the MWP works

[lilac island]

Oh yeah the funny crystal thimg from r6

[eternal talon]

It changes our matter fundamentally to both 1) teleport us to the location, and 2) change our frequency of matter to match its own from the data cubes

[eternal talon]

Yes, that is one of a set. The Warp gates built by project insight (humans), require the MWP, and 3 data cubes for the location, frequency, and world line

In-game, we find 9 total data cubes

[nova quest]

So a quasi-dimensional asteroid carrying a virus from another level of reality parallel to ours crashed on earth and caused all this?

[burnt wren]

Seems accurate enough. Still no proper confirmation on asteroid bit though, could be a ship that just got calcified due to ages it spent on earth

[nova quest]

That would imply the sleepers were at one point a space-faring race, or a space-faring race from that dimension landed there, fucked up, and then proceeded to just escape, some how ended up in an alcubierre tunnel of some sort and somehow crashed on earth, killed the dinos, and then relaxed in isolation until it was reawoken by digging in the area.

[burnt wren]

No-no, sleepers are just mutants

[nova quest]

Yes, I know that.

[burnt wren]

They are a result of people getting infected with the parasite, who in his turn is kept alive indefinitely by NAM-V

We don't know if we've even seen those who were actually present on the derelict

There is a single very weird log somewhere

[nova quest]

But in order for the ship/race to make it there, the sleepers (infected) would have either needed their own ability to travel in space, or move dimensions on their own without the aid of another species.

[radiant hearth]

We need this guy on D1 overload

[burnt wren]

Where a worker described running into something that doesn't fit the description of an average sleeper

Frosty thinks it could've been an actual, living alien

But we haven't heard of it since

[nova quest]

Which could imply aliens, or simply another mutation.

But, considering these things come from another level of existence, which makes no sense considering their biological makeup as carbon-based lifeforms, leads me to believe it's not an alien, but just a dimensionally different human.

But in order for me to make that assumption, I need the star charts.

I gotta know where this sleeper planet sits in the cosmos compared to the location of the Sol System.

[burnt wren]

The general event that we consider right now is that the aliens created / ran into NAM-V, realised that they're fucked and attempted to jettison into our reality to escape it, but unfortunately they were already infected / had the infected on board and so the escape plan didn't work out

Then they crashed here and here we go

[nova quest]

Then that implies there's now more than one spot for this virus to start up, and it's not exclusive to this planet.

[burnt wren]

Yes.

[nova quest]

So now I wanna know where this planet is in conjunction to ours in reality.

My guess, we're inside it.

[burnt wren]

The planet we keep teleporting to should be super-infected too

[nova quest]

It is.

[burnt wren]

R6 confirmed as much

[nova quest]

Just standing on the sand you can see the infection spores flowing around in the air

[burnt wren]

The expedition didn't got hit by it

Or at least not immediately

[nova quest]

Not immediately.

[burnt wren]

Bishop survived for like years in there

[nova quest]

We know that there's some level of immunity, not total, but a delay.

[burnt wren]

And shit kills you in a couple of months at best

That shoudn't be possible

[nova quest]

From what I recall in R3-4 the infection itself doesn't kill you outright, but it slowly mutates you.

HUS's delay this, but only by a short time.

It starts with madness and then slowly devolves.

[burnt wren]

Eh, there's a lot of shenangians here

[nova quest]

Indeed...

[burnt wren]

The Virus just kill you

That's what it does

Something something cell degradation

A month or two and you fucking melt into a soup

But that's where The Parasite gets introduced

The fucking thing is in symbiotic relationship with the virus

[nova quest]

So the parasite waits for the host to basically be a soup of nothing and then rebuilds it.

[burnt wren]

And uses the opportunity to create sleepers

[nova quest]

Sounds less like a virus and more like a fungus.

[burnt wren]

That's why sleepers are exclusive to the complex

Everyone outside just dies

Because while the virus escaped - the parasite didn't

The scientists found a way to kill it, but can't do jack shit to NAM-V

Except for HSUs somehow slowing it down, but we are unclear on that front what exactly happens there

[nova quest]

Well, you can kill the parasite by killing the host it seems, as without a host the parasite seems to just..die off?

[burnt wren]

Not that it matters because the trade off is losing your memories to the point of being a new person

[nova quest]

We don't fully know how HSU's work.

If I had to hazard a guess it's similar to a form of cryosleep without the sleep.

Yet bodily functions seem to still be working nonstop.

[burnt wren]

Its hydrosleep, if i understand correctly

same concept - you are effectively dead - no heartbeat, pulse, nothing - and your body is preserved in whatever they fill those things with

downside: since your brain technically dies too it greatly fucks with your memories

[nova quest]

Which we know stop dreams and other functions, aswell as causing some sort of mental degredation.

I don't know much about the characters, but from what I can tell, the HSU pod itself might be a computer that downloads something into the brain while it sleeps.

[burnt wren]

I believe that's not the case

[nova quest]

The conditioning that Henriksson displayed show that there's some sort of reeducation that happens.

[burnt wren]

In C1 they literally remove a chip from his neck

[nova quest]

You need combat, it's what you trained for
"I need combat, it's what I trained for."

Yeah but how does that even get into your neck?

I dont recall that ever being explained, only that it exists.

[burnt wren]

That's not what HSUs do

they just put you to sleep

that was before that

[nova quest]

Yeah this is the problem with the lore.

It makes no fucking sense lmao

They're adding more and more pieces that don't seem to really..jell together.

[burnt wren]

THere's a small possibility that there's still staff in the complex who keep running these mission

And they're the ones who put those things in

[nova quest]

I doubt that, for one reason.

Warden Protocol.

There's no reason for staff to exist in the facility unless they're survivors who are unaccounted for.

The Warden, it seems, is either a super advanced AI, or is an AI that's operated by several people.

[burnt wren]

There's a plot hole called The Schaeffer Discepancy

There's a lot to his existence that's weird

We know that he wasn't a KSO, he was just the drilling operations captain

No chips, no BIOCOM relationships

And then he intentionally put himself into HSU

Was used by the warden for a while as a KSO

Then somehow broke out from it

[nova quest]

Sounds like marysue syndrome.

[burnt wren]

There's also something about him teleporting all over the complex, but Frosty would be better at explaining that issue

[nova quest]

Or inconsistent writing syndrome

bring the person in here im curious

[burnt wren]

The writers during some stream or another claim that everything is according to the plan and that everything has a reason

[nova quest]

because having read the terminals and the lore and trying to keep up to date on it, makes no sense.

[burnt wren]

Could be true, could be just writers not willing to admit they wrote themselves into a corner

[nova quest]

Which will eventually be written out of in future rundowns, but that's kinda a problem.

Because it means every rundown we're kinda clueless on story progression if they're gonna make 180's like that.

In order to write themselves out of said corner.

[burnt wren]

Hey @eternal talon , explain the Schaeffer Discrepancy, i forgot what was the deal with it

[snow yarrow]

ic, how did you/Lore got it from?

like any some of calculation or ?

[eternal talon]

Or more likely an infected one.

[eternal talon]

Warden Twitter is cannon. It gives dates for when each rundown ends

We just used the date given in log for an event that happens in rundown 3,

And math it for the other rundowns based on that

Since wtrn Twitter only gives months & days, obv not years, it isn't the 2060s irl

[eternal talon]

Schaeffer gets into hsu

In kds deep

Schaeffer breaks free of the warden in r4

WRDN has us open and give it access to kds deep in r5

That about sums it up

[nova quest]

Schaeffer is a mary sue confirmed

took a curse full bore and then said "okay no curse"

Unless he's just a clone of a clone.

[eternal talon]

Butterfly nebula, 3k light years away. We have the location of destination already.

[nova quest]

Oh shit thank you.

[eternal talon]

No clones

[sweet harbor]

He got the brain chip as part of HSU indoctrination, and had the updated versions that were vulnerable to magnetic fields. Later he deployed deep in the complex and while that was going on some incident/seismic event happened that bonked Earth's magnetosphere and damaged his chip

[eternal talon]

No. It comandeers the body. The virus keeps the parasite alive and by extension, the host alive so it doesn't starve itself to death by eating all of its food too fast, per se

[nova quest]

The good ol "comsic rays changed a 1 to a 0"

So NAM-V kills people, and the parasite just infects them, making them two different things utterly?

Or are they related by some strain?

Cus from what I can see, based on the enemies and the biomass and the rest of them, that the parasite acts more like a fungus

[eternal talon]

It is as artek said. Essentially it is a super-coma. All body functions are shut off and suspended.

[nova quest]

But at the same time, nothing like a fungus.

[nova quest]

So how do the chips enter your neck/brainstem?

Does it happen when entering an HSU if you don't have one? Or is it something that happens when you apply for the companys themselves.

[sweet harbor]

I don't think we know that answer, other than an educated technician is required to run the process.

[eternal talon]

It is a DI, a decision intelligence that was injected into the BIOCOM network and took it over

[nova quest]

Well that explains the Warden fully.

[eternal talon]

Schaeffer teleporting? No, not by me at least

[nova quest]

Schaeffer seems to be able to talk to you wherever he is, which would simply imply he has control over intercoms. Which is incredibly easy to do anywhere.

[eternal talon]

No, one of the logs specifically says that certain frequencies of sound mess with KSOs. While exactly what this is isn't said, it is most likely the cause for how Schaeffer broke free

[nova quest]

Most intercom systems are redundant IRL, at least where I work, if you had access to a wall intercom you could easily hook up a laptop or computer to it and run a program through it and, if you're lucky, access the rest that intercom is tied to unless there's already a redundant security system that locks them all off.

[eternal talon]

They are a symbiotic pair gimme a sec I'll post a picture of the log

[sweet harbor]

Sure, but that's in addition to logs describing vulnerable chips

[nova quest]

Oki

[sweet harbor]

Maybe agree it's an ambiguity

[eternal talon]

we don't know exactly how. my first thought is something kovac does directly, but that wouldn't be the case for Dauda (player 2) or schaeffer, so it must be some automated function of a new user into the HSU system. they are big machines after all

[eternal talon]

the first, i would suppose is most likely because of dauda not becoming a KSO in the standard way yet functioning the same

[nova quest]

That means that chips are only given to certain low-level or low-security personnel

[eternal talon]

if you guys haven't, i highly recommend reading the "for dummies" doc in the pins, it is an extensive lore introduction me and many others worked to make.

[nova quest]

While higher functioning people, such as doctors or scientists and the like, are free to think freely.

[eternal talon]

in garganta they don't have a simple intercom system, they have "Hearsay" which is an advanced site-wide broadcasting and listening system that was run by kovac before everything went to shit

[nova quest]

problem is even reading the logs and the lore a lot of it makes no sense from a reality perspective and it's kinda hard when they're trying so hard to make this look realistic.

[nova quest]

Hersay just sounds like a sitewide intercom system.

So they would have speakers?

[sweet harbor]

Correct, the legion program was a thing people could sign over their bodies to do menial tasks for a period, and collect pay at the end

[eternal talon]

it is mostly used for recording tbh

[nova quest]

That...makes it a lot easier.

[eternal talon]

most logs mentioning it and it's primary purpose is keeping tabs and eavesdropping

making sure nobody is saying or doing stuff they shouldn't.

broadcasting is a secondary function

but it is baked into every system in the entire site

[nova quest]

So it's a sniffer system.

Which doubles as a broadcasting system

and triples as a security system?

[eternal talon]

not even to collect pay. once you are in legion you are in forever. you NEVER get out

you can't reverse HSU

[sweet harbor]

You described tiktok

[nova quest]

Literally

[eternal talon]

schaeffer says that himself in c1 when talking to henrikson

he wont get his memories back

[sweet harbor]

Need a citation for that, @eternal talon

[eternal talon]

wrong @

[sweet harbor]

Damnit

[eternal talon]

yes

[nova quest]

Okay so it's literally the easiest thing to tap into.

[eternal talon]

1 sec

i dont know if they are on the notion yet

@solar nova do you have the audio logs from r7 up yet

specifically c1s

[sweet harbor]

I don't put a lot of stock in Schaeffer's opinion on how legion work because he's a dumbass pit boss

[nova quest]

One thing I didn't agree with during D1, and D2, needing to be at the mainframe to infect the central computer.

[eternal talon]

if you dont want schaeffer's word, i have more sources

[sweet harbor]

Ok

[nova quest]

Because if that's the case, every single computer and terminal is isolated in the facility, meaning they're only able to control the area in which they're placed, making it even easier to start slowly deconstructing the firewall itself.

With no direct access to the central computer outside of a carrier single that seems to be sent, means you can easily isolate everything and the computer would never know, and simply assume the terminal is offline with no direct handshake.

[sweet harbor]

Actually I'd buy that some bodies in legion are true prisoners in that they were sentenced to that as a crime or something. But legion, the product, wasn't that

[nova quest]

You could, in theory, just walk around the facility and infect a handful of computers and link them together.

Creating your own backdoor mainframe without needing to hit the central computer at all.

[eternal talon]

https://www.notion.so/ab68b94496bd4b27bec291de65ebd510?v=9c98784771d740f3b605ff63763b4963&p=431cd1850c2d4c6f8e067feaee6da3bd here is a log about them sending defective KSOs to a meat grinder " Can you send me a list of the operatives you marked as faulty and
sent to recycling? We track both organ and tissue stocks here so
we can trace the history should we need it "

[nova quest]

Sigma gen

[sweet harbor]

Ah interesting

[eternal talon]

different classifications of KSOs. each class is designated to fit a specific role in a team

each of our 4 are also different classes

G, T, F, and O

[nova quest]

What are the classes and their functions?

[eternal talon]

here are their official character backgrounds from 10cc website
** BISHOP, FRANK GO-1395
A lifetime ago, Frank Bishop made a losing bet. He’d robbed, kidnapped, and trafficked in a bid for fortune and power.
This time, it was blackmail, but things didn’t go to plan. His target turned the tables, condemning him to years of brutal captivity.
The torture and deprivation he endured ended with Bishop suffering an even worse fate: Hydrostasis.
Now, unable to remember the man who destroyed him, he’s left with only the rage and mistrust that sustained his tragic existence.

HACKETT, AIDEN O-4711

The first person to admit Hackett isn’t cut out for this world is Hackett. Even as a child, his feral mind was a deadly force.
When he joined the military, discipline loosened the grip of his dark impulses, but nature always finds a way.
Inevitably, Hackett’s instinctive cruelty was unleashed on a peacekeeping mission that couldn’t have gone more wrong.
Clear-eyed about his actions, Hackett knew that redemption would cost him life as he knew it.

WOODS, ISAIAH F-2056

Isaiah Woods was a religious man of honor and courage who saw too much.
The brutality of combat changed him from a spiritual man to a ticking time bomb.
When his fuse finally burned down, he went on a rampage and justified it as divine retribution for the evils he saw around him.
Even now, with no memory of the carnage he wrought, he feels the presence of God flowing through him. Some fires burn too deep to smother.

DAUDA, ABEO T-3701

A brilliant young mind. A groundbreaking researcher. A pillar of the scientific community.
Nigerian-born psychopharmacologist Abeo Dauda was all of those things before his obsessive ambition broke his moral compass.
Dauda’s blindness to the human cost of his experiments made him indispensable to unscrupulous drug companies.
As long as they stayed out of his way, he didn’t question them.
By the time he realized the depravity of the people he worked for, it was too late.**

[eternal talon]

we dont know most of them. we do know a couple, i could look into it. gimme a minute

[eternal talon]

fun fact, this log specifically also mentions woods

F 0256

[eternal talon]

found it https://www.notion.so/ab68b94496bd4b27bec291de65ebd510?v=9c98784771d740f3b605ff63763b4963&p=255b2fca66ab443790dc2d010a41ac28

this log mentions a couple of them

like G, genesis

of which BISHOP is desegnated

[nova quest]

Genesis class people being leadership material is..questionable from a psychological perspective.

But I don't have the full pysch profiles for everyone so I can't say, but a human trafficker does display, in a morbid way, leadership qualities.

But it also displays an underline mental problem with both personal insignificance and other mental symptoms. Including narcissism and sociopathic narcissist tendancies.

[eternal talon]

https://www.notion.so/ab68b94496bd4b27bec291de65ebd510?v=9c98784771d740f3b605ff63763b4963&p=a239b14e19534b799a12610c3f0f5be7
https://www.notion.so/ab68b94496bd4b27bec291de65ebd510?v=9c98784771d740f3b605ff63763b4963&p=0468e7e5a57b42ac98d261bf0299c58f
and the majority of the interview style audio logs have characters saying "hearsay on" at the start.

[nova quest]

It's 110% leadership quality, but only if you want a leader who has no care for his people, only for the objective.

ima look at this.

[eternal talon]

the "for dummies" doc is there for a reason. it doesn't explain everything, but it explains as much as it can. just about everything in here is heavily researched and verified

if you guys want any more info, ping me.

i'm gonna go back to making battle maps for D&D

[nova quest]

Having just read this for dummies thing
I have...so many questions about not only the virus, but about the facility and how it operates.

[south lake]

Long story short, morals mean fuckall to Santonian, Kovac, and friends.

[sweet harbor]

But think of the opportunities!

[lilac island]

i want a warden final boss fight i want a warden final boss fight i want a warden final boss fight i want a warden final boss fight i want a warden final boss fight i want a warden final boss fight

[nova quest]

But saving myself from mental overload, I think the best place to start is the virus itself, and how these two are able to coexist so well. NAM-V appears to be directly linked to the sleeper parasite, but at the same time it displays nothing that would link it to the parasite itself. Both behave utterly differently, and despite scientific claims that they're "Symbiotic", they couldn't at all with how both act.

The sleeper virus, from what I can see and based on what I've seen from this log and some others, that it's a fungus. We know that people are mutated differently, but it doesn't really explain the biomasses we find, or I can't find a log that really details them too well. We know that people mutate differently, but since this parasite, as we know isn't outside this complex, that means it only has the biomass here to work with...so now I question the original post that said "Don't know if it affects animals".

[eternal talon]

it isn't a fungus. it is a virus.

the biomass we find is created by the sleepers

they form a hive

[nova quest]

Then the next thing im typing is about to get more complicated.

Because that's just...madness.

[eternal talon]

we don't know if it affects animals other than humans

[nova quest]

The NAM-V virus, from what can be discerned from the logs, points to it being basically a worse version of HIV in the way it infects the same way; that liquifies bodily organs and tissue until the body slowly dissolves into a puddle of fluids and organic matter. We know the sleepers cannot operate in a dead body, the body needs to be living, so with NAM-V being something that kills the host could not live in our current bodies, meaning the sleepers, unless they're able to mutate on a scale we cannot even comprehend, wouldn't be able to adapt the human tissue/makeup fast enough to merge, there's just no way. Dauda also goes into detail about the tests he's done to try and cure/discover how fast it works in the logs. We know that 15% survived most exposure methods until they were basically put in a room with nothing but the virus floating around in the air, rather than different liquid solutions, which implies the virus travels faster in water than air.

[eternal talon]

it isn't stated.

[nova quest]

Well now my question on biomass gets complicated.

[eternal talon]

"The NAM-V virus, from what can be discerned from the logs, points to it being basically a worse version of HIV in the way it infects the same way; that liquifies bodily organs and tissue until the body slowly dissolves into a puddle of fluids and organic matter."... no

i can send you a symptoms list if you want..

[nova quest]

I don't need that.

I need what happens to the body after it kills you.

What it does to the organs.

What it does to tissue.

[eternal talon]

these aren't neccessarily purely nam-v.

[nova quest]

Those look more like people being beaten to death by sleepers

They're not what I refer to.

but it also raises the question on biomass: Is it basically sleepers forming into one, or them adding bodies to it?

[eternal talon]

most likely bodies

sleepers dont really tend to fuse themselves. only exception off the top of my head is the mother

which is formed from two females

and possibly the tank

[nova quest]

I wonder if we'll get a clear reading on that, because that makes the sleeper parasite more complicated than NAM-V

[eternal talon]

also eggs that are never explained anywhere

[nova quest]

Are sacks explained?

[eternal talon]

no they aren't alive, no heat signature

[nova quest]

Or the bulbs in some rooms?

[eternal talon]

respawn rooms, infection spitters, mother stuff on the walls,

[nova quest]

If the eggs aren't alive, and explode from a dead sleeper, that would make them more like a spore.

[eternal talon]

which one are you asking about

[nova quest]

All of them.

[eternal talon]

the devs call them eggs

[nova quest]

Interesting.

Because those dont behave like eggs

[eternal talon]

they have in official videos on their YT and on posts here/ on twitter

[nova quest]

well it's neither here nor there ill accept they're eggs

but the tumors and respawn rooms

and spitters

[eternal talon]

bruh the devs said it

[nova quest]

i know they said it, but they can still double back on it later and change it

ill accept they're eggs

[eternal talon]

respawn rooms.. no idea, probably some extension of what the mother does,

the spitters, aren't explained anywhere or detailed on one bit

we know actually nothing about them

and that isn't even an exaggeration

[nova quest]

Seems like a hive defense mechanism.

And that's too broad for me to declare it a fungus since so many things do this.

[eternal talon]

we know more about an extinct alien civilization from more than 65 million years ago than we do wall infection sacks we find every couple expeditions

[nova quest]

Well then that's free room for me to guess I suppose.

[eternal talon]

its not a fungus, nam-v is a virus, and the parasite is well.. a parasite

fungi are separate things completely

[nova quest]

The problem is the way it behaves.

I have yet to meet a parasite or virus that spreads things along a surface like this, or is able to reproduce the way this does.

[eternal talon]

besides, on the topic of biology, @rocky wraith is our biology major. i'll ping him and you can discuss with him about it

as he knows way more than i do

[nova quest]

Yes please

I have entry level biology and id like this explained to me.

my main form of study is psychology and horticulture.

Really the problem is we don't know sleeper life cycles

Or anything about them aside from different versions of the parasite exist in the form of different sleeper variants.

If every form of the sleeper after striker and shooter is a mutation, then it would require addtional biomass in order to create some of these wild variants.

[rocky wraith]

heyo

[nova quest]

henlo

[south lake]

There's.. not much to observe. They're stuck in Garganta, hibernating until something disturbs them.

[rocky wraith]

how can I help

[nova quest]

please give me a biology lesson

[sweet harbor]

@eternal talon are logs from the santonian website on the notion site?

[nova quest]

we're getting deep lore here

Anyway to explain.

[south lake]

(This is where you say "Dinner first", Beanz)

[nova quest]

I'm trying to find the correlation between fungus to the sleeper parasite.

[eternal talon]

most of them are.

[rocky wraith]

xp

[nova quest]

As I believe them to be almost one in the same in many aspects.

[eternal talon]

afik rayalot does a pretty good job of updating it

[rocky wraith]

Was reading back to find out what was being said

[rocky wraith]

nah not a fungus

Fungus's don't fit the profile as cool as they are

[nova quest]

elaborate oh wise bean

[sweet harbor]

PEDD-J0L-221-R.LOG from ARCHIVE005 is not. Here's an interesting snippet:

Politika Pensado
June 19th, 2050
 
General Assembly Annual Session Voting Begins
by Kate Harding, Political correspondent, Politika Pensado
 
This week marks the beginning of the United Nations session voting, and as usual there is expected to be little consensus between the member states. Over the last decade, the UN gener
al assembly has become more and more fragmented, with member states focusing on nationalistic goals above global ideals. Even on topics as seemingly straightforward as climate change,
 this once lauded bastion of “thinking globally” seems incapable of reaching an entente cordiale. Political maneuvering leads to expected results every time: consensus is reached, the
n when voting comes, proverbial rugs are pulled.
 
The charter for this year focused on an eclectic agenda, addressing issues as diverse as loan forgiveness, military response to the rising nuclear threat in north Africa and the Middl
e East, and combating the growing power of private multi-national security contractors.
 
For those in a hurry, Politika Pensado offers a quick rundown of what to expect from this session:
 
Third World Loan forgiveness is unlikely to pass, with strong opposition from the United States, Russia, Great Britain and Japan. Germany, Sweden, France, China, and the Netherlands h
ave effectively written off several hundred billion dollars in debt already, but their unilateral act of generosity is unlikely to gain much traction among the more conservative membe
r states. As the naysayers would have it… “Again?”```

[nova quest]

Because wall tumors and spitters are..very much something a Fungus would be, and I can reference the spitters to several species of fungus that exist on earth.

[sweet harbor]

 countries has largely been responsible for humanitarian crisis with little chance of effecting noticeable political change. If you can’t bribe them, kill them appears to be the motto
 of the UN these days. Even some states under threat of economic sanctions may vote for rapid military action. Nothing fills the coffers faster than a good old-fashioned war.
 
Harder to predict will be the outcome of voting on controlling private security contractors. While many of these contractors are based in powerful UN members states (read Russia, Unit
ed States, South Africa, Great Britain), those states may also regard their oversees interests threatened by the increasing popularity of “Armies for Rent”. Add to that the concern ov
er the recruitment practices of many of these corporations (with Kovac Defense Services leading the list on shady practices) and the issue deals with more than just global security – 
it is a potential humanitarian disaster waiting to happen. KDS, as they are affectionately known by no one, has reportedly been recruiting operators (read: criminals) from state run p
rison systems with abandon in the last few years, and not all of that recruitment is voluntary. Indeed, they are suspected–
 
*Encryption checksum mismatch. Contact your IT administrator*```

[rocky wraith]

virus works better because of the ability to control cells intracellularly while fungus' work through inter-cell interactions, only letting them modify from the outside

A virus is much more bioenergetically efficient for the processes the sleepers are undergoing

[nova quest]

Well now we have a problem with that, because of ophiocordyceps camponoti-floridan.

I haven't had much of a chance to read on this outside of surface level knowledge given by a work friend.

Outside of it infecting ants and spiders and some smaller insects, it seems to break down the overall body and just sorta..replicate the system?

[rocky wraith]

not really, that fungus works by directly manipulating pre-existing functions

the virus works to directly change the beings genetics and epigenetics

adding new functions and removing old ones

[nova quest]

That explains how it can work with NAM-V

Sorta.

I need to disect a sleeper.

There's only one way to find this out for sure.

While it doesn't work the same way as a fungus, the way the sleepers work, and some of the more unexplained things like spitters, tumors, point towards some very strange mutations in the pathogen itself.

[rocky wraith]

we already have plenty of dissected sleepers

[nova quest]

do we have a good view of its spinal cord or brain

[rocky wraith]

and guts

[nova quest]

or its sensory organs

[south lake]

You're misunderstanding. NAM-V is the virus. The parasite is unnamed.

[nova quest]

So NAM-V is not at all within this facility, at all.

[rocky wraith]

Its everywhere

[eternal talon]

https://tenor.com/view/facepalm-picard-star-trek-the-next-generation-disappointed-gif-23456183

it is both

[rocky wraith]

even the characters are infected by it

[nova quest]

Okay, that's exactly what I thought.

I'm literally trying to find the link between NAM-V and how it works with sleepers

[rocky wraith]

two secs

theres a log for it

[eternal talon]

i already linked the e1 log

[nova quest]

Yuh I know of one that was just posted.

[eternal talon]

its up

[nova quest]

Dauda's

[rocky wraith]

not that one

the one about the effects of both virus and parasite

[eternal talon]

eating through hazmat?

[nova quest]

Dauda only went into a little detail, saying they basically work as one to keep a host perfectly in sync

[rocky wraith]

kinda, the ossification of the spinal fluid one

[nova quest]

Oh?

NHO is interesting

[eternal talon]

this is the hazmat one btw https://www.notion.so/ab68b94496bd4b27bec291de65ebd510?v=9c98784771d740f3b605ff63763b4963&p=e42bda18f22a46df8d3efe49ededcfe3

[nova quest]

ty

[eternal talon]

there only 29 nam-v logs

its one of them

[nova quest]

I think I read about this one already

[sweet harbor]

Opening log file LOCS-43W-MOA-D.LOG: DONE!

##########################################

D-Lock Block Cipher
alias:int_server.1024_ciph.tier5.med_core/DLockwoodA074.flagged
 
Dean,
 
As requested, I have compiled the analysis of the affected subjects.
 
The subject’s physiological changes do seem to be permanent. The ossification of the fibrous cartilage in both the spine and menisci appears to start at the brain stem and spreads rap
idly, possibly due to the greater intercellular space offered. Attempts to slow the spread have so far been unsuccessful.
 
Affected subjects show signs of cognitive reduction within a few days, which accompanies the bent or stooped posture. They are able to continue menial work for several weeks, before s
uccumbing to the pain and physical disability.
 
Opiates and derivatives ease the pain of the subjects, and we have been administering liberally as no other form of palliative care appears to work.
 
I have our entire cellular biology department working on this, but so far little progress has been made. Even after the parasite is removed, the viral load increases. We cannot stop t
he progress of the virus, and our only defense is SCBA Level A suits when in NAM-V hotspots. Even with this level of protection, the parasites are finding ways in.
 
Transition from initial diagnosis to cellular collapse takes approximately 5 weeks. We have yet to discover what happens thereafter. I will keep you posted.
 
We need more narcotics. Our stocks are running low.
 
Ron Sullivan

[rocky wraith]

Yup this one

ty

[eternal talon]

this is the one i just linked wdym ty

[rocky wraith]

yes :)

[nova quest]

wow

cold

"Transition from initial diagnosis to cellular collapse takes approximately 5 weeks. We have yet to discover what happens thereafter."

i need 4 brave people to come with me and kidnap one of the last humans and check this out

for science.

Tho this does put a big hole in my fungus theory.

[rocky wraith]

Its confirmed not a fungus

like seriously

[sweet harbor]

[citation needed]

[nova quest]

I know that, but it can still have the same qualities.

[rocky wraith]

no

funguses don't reprogram host genetics

viruses do that

[south lake]

Aye, you're hyperfixating on this fungus thing too hard. It's straight up not a fungus.

[rocky wraith]

much more effectively and efficiently

[eternal talon]

the side-effects of that disinformation ridden roanoke gaming lore video
(yes disinformation, they deleted comments correcting them)

[south lake]

Don't even, frostty.

[rocky wraith]

I hate that video with every inch of my being

[nova quest]

More like the side effects from the lore itself being rather hard to understand because so much isn't really touched on or explained.

[rocky wraith]

but not worth rambling about

[nova quest]

Because we have things like we mentioned before, spitters and tumors, that aren't really explained.

[rocky wraith]

there are so many log stores about

[nova quest]

We have the eggs, that aren't explained.

[rocky wraith]

we can general guess quite well hoe it works

[south lake]

Don't pay attention to that comment about the video. Frostty likes to get riled up.

[rocky wraith]

I already have quite a good idea on the life cycles, but not exact

[nova quest]

go for it im curious

this is more interesting than the logs.

[south lake]

I mean the logs are where you're gonna get the majority of confirmed lore, so

[sweet harbor]

some viruses insert themselves in genetic code to reproduce, is that what you're calling reprogramming host genetics ?

[nova quest]

Problem is how little some of them explain it.

It's a foundation, but only enough for people to start making wild guesses on some aspects.

video game lore be like

[sweet harbor]

I mean we can debate this using real-life data, but that ignores that we're in scifi. They could totally add a fungus that does. That's why I said [citation needed] to rule that out.

[nova quest]

the devs have probably said it but me looking for that would be hard af considering my lore knowledge isnt that great

it's easier to have someone who knows it just post it or confirm it by multiple sources

[rocky wraith]

So first of all we have two major variants. Destinations variants, and Earths variants. Destination variants have reprogramed and developed into becoming nomadic, travelling, always seeming to be moving. Earths variants went the opposite way, sedentary, ambush based. This is important. Nemesis seen in R6D1 is likely the end result of the nomadic evolution traits, a massive travelling mothership which spits out fliers. This means all accumulated biomass is likely carried back to the nemesis and continues travelling and hunting.

Earths have gone for two distinct types. Transformed (from human), or Grown (either through Mothers, cocoons like seen in respawn rooms, and the black biomass. A third possibility exists as well, which I'll cover in a bit. Grown I think we can all point to shadow, chargers(and variants of), and the E1 boss. They seem to be grown out of the biomass which accumulates on certain levels. Others like the Scouts, Strikers, Spitters can be guessed to be the end result of a normal human transformed by the Virus+parasite symbiosis, this transformation is not perfect as often the host will die before transforming. The tricky ones to explain are the giants, tanks, and mothers. Mothers I will deal with straight away, they hold the ability to reproduce as we all know, and this lets them make babies, but not only that, they are almost replicas of strikers if only smaller. The babies I would guess are actually not supposed to be birthed that young, the reason I have for this is all the cocoons which mothers place, which lets the young gestate for longer, possibly then becoming the respawn cocoons when ready. These respawn cocoons spawn back in everything in game, mainly giants and strikers and such but even other mothers etc. This is either their first go-to stage to reproduce before they have enough biomass to accumulate into the massive collections, or are the direct result of gathering enough biomass for the biomass to spit them out.
(part 1)

[south lake]

Y'okay over there Bean? Didn't fall in, I hope?

Oh, there we go lol

[rocky wraith]

Discord has a word limit >:(

[nova quest]

Oh less gooooo

For non paying users

Give them your money

[south lake]

Calling it, he fell in lol

[nova quest]

go deeper, ignore the nay sayers

nothing ventured nothing gained

[south lake]

Or just use BetterDiscord.

[nova quest]

only chads use that

[south lake]

They have an add on that splits oversized messages.

Also client skins.

[nova quest]

removing blocked messages

[south lake]

And a block function that isn't headass, yes

[nova quest]

CLICK TO SHOW 1 BLOCKED MESSAGE

[rocky wraith]

(part 2)
Here's where things get complicated. We know that the scientists were experimenting around with the sleepers quite a bit. One of the problematic pieces is a sample set we got a long while back called pMOTHER trial samples. The nomenclature for it means that pMOTHER samples are actually plasmids, and mainly plasmids that are used for genetic engineering, an easy snip and insert section of DNA. Now it could be that Mothers are not a naturally occurring development but one incorporated in, and the reason I think this could be a viable theory is because of project RISE, which is to quickly grow their own army of completely obedient soldiers. Mothers could have been the result of several genetically modified sleepers being grown together to form a viable system for reproduction which would make it super cost-efficient to produce RISE soldiers. Now on the idea that this is true, that means that when the mothers got loose, they were incorporated into the Sleepers, and became a mobile factory, this also implies that mothers are not natural, and thus that the biomasses would be the reproduction stage that the sleepers would try to progress to immediately after transformation. Mothers became an between of that lifecycle or another loop entirely. The main takeaway is that there is still a lot of possibility for it to be explained as something else.

[rocky wraith]

So here, viruses normally reproduce by hijacking the hosts present proteins to reproduce. The lysogenic cycle is the one where viruses insert themselves into the hosts DNA to be reproduced somatically (and sometimes through germline when the fragment is silenced). Now the lysogenic cycle generally doesn't affect the host all that much differently (except a rise in cancer due to promoting oncogenes) but it does NOT directly tamper with the hosts DNA nor does it change the translation/transcription of it in the way we see with NAM-V. NAM-V HAS to have proteins encoded within its genome which let it directly silence, promote and even modify the hosts genes. That is why the sleepers have such a massive change.

When we want to reprogram host cells in labs, often you just zap em a bit and sneak some plasmids in there when its not looking, but what we can also do is encode proteins like CRISPR and specific endonucleases into the virus so that when it does enter the cell, the produced proteins will then modify the hosts DNA with little hassle and a fairly ok efficiency. Now this is not normal nor does it occur in nature as far as I'm aware. But due to NAM-V being a bioengineered superweapon, I think we can rest assured it probably contains an impressive array of gene editing proteins so it can exact the change that results in the creation of sleepers or at least combat capable hosts that can further spread the virus.

Any questions just ping me but I won't answer till tomoz. I'm gonna get some sleep. nini all

[nova quest]

Nini, got a few tho

[sweet harbor]

It's a shame he missed my last point before typing that.

[nova quest]

For this portion, I need to ask: How does the hive or the parasite accumulate biomass? I have no real way to explain that better, because to me either the sleepers need to sacrifice themselves to the overall biomass in order to add more for replication and mutation, or they get it from somewhere else, either from the multitude of infected bodies or something else. If the cells reproduce on their own, allowing the sleepers to mutate into a needed unit/hive drone.

[sweet harbor]

@rocky wraith how many genes do you think you'd need to fit in that plasmid to turn a human into a scout? The is answer probably assloads, thus it's probably a fungus due to genome size.

[nova quest]

What I can take away from this is that Pmothers and perhaps Mothers, are the direct result of human tampering, and later sleeper hive integration. If the hive is able to do this, or I guess I should just say the Parasite is able to do this, would that mean it's able to incorporate other mutations, either directly or indirectly related to what it is? An example would be the creation of the mother, but instead, to make something akin to the charger, could the parasite simply bring them in and find a place for them regardless? Or does it force them into a biomass-like state if they don't fit the criteria?

[south lake]

Except it's not a fungus. The logs refer to it as a virus, full stop. Even Dauda refers to it as a virus, and he's a scientist.

[nova quest]

im off the fungus thing

[south lake]

Was referring to Zy's comment.

[nova quest]

ye im just reinforcing it

since i started the whole discussion here on it

[lilac island]

So

the new enemy

wtf does it do

like it eats u n runs away with u in its stomach

[eternal talon]

in gameplay or in lore

[lilac island]

so it drops u?

lore/gameplay

[eternal talon]

in gameplay it grabs you to seperate the party.

[sweet harbor]

That's all I was asking for before... if there's logs I'd love a link

[lilac island]

I see what it does but i wanna kinda understand what it does exactly, lore wise

[eternal talon]

making it easier for the sleepers to kill you one by one

[lilac island]

ik but

how

[eternal talon]

lore wise, we got no info

[lilac island]

it jumps on people

it gulps em

and runs away with em?

[eternal talon]

just another variant

we have no specific lore, at all

on it

[lilac island]

i mean

u kinda see ur screen covered in tentacles

kind of an idea u can get

but idk what it is exactly

kinda like the jockey in l4d2, it does the same thing but it rides u like a horse n gets u away from ur team

thats the thing, this ugly mofo does the same but, how?

[past matrix]

lorewise scientists either created it or experimented on it given the C1 room

and it uh vores you

id imagine it tries to do something like tear you apart and digest you or some shit

[south lake]

Well, considering Sleepers are former humans

I think you can surmise what those tentacles are, or were, rather.

As well as where it "stores" you

[solar nova]

Naw

Soontm

[earnest meteor]

Are Hackett, Bishop, Woods and Dauda all infected with Nam-V?

[cobalt mulch]

they get infected on feet-down on missions but then hydrostasis "cures" them again and again

[abstract shuttle]

So why are the prisoners resuscitating the neonate HSU? I read it was to make more prisoners basically but I can't find the audio logs that support that

[cobalt mulch]

neonate could be the rise program trying to create operatives/soldiers that are "masked" / invisible to the sleepers, r6 specimen 22 was a partial success until r6dx and schaeffer.

[abstract shuttle]

Ooo

Big brain plays

[burnt wren]

Yeah, I imagine efficiency of running the complex will increase tenfold if KSOs didn't have to fight for their life every minute or so

Just not having to stealth through rooms would save so much time

[cobalt mulch]

the d1 post-processing neonate, breath moving his chest, looking like a baby about to wake up and cry.. .. kinda rubs me very wrong as a dad, like "he didn't choose or have a say in any of this", then we stick him in a machine and leave him. ... 💔 ..

(and looking w thermals, the neonate we pickup after is not the same one the last machine operated on btw, immersion broken 😦 )

[burnt wren]

Maybe he grown in the mean time? Those things grow super fast

[cobalt mulch]

next d1 do look thru the glasses w pdw, u'll see.. one hsu on the "right" and another on the "left" and a third we pick up when done

[burnt wren]

Who the fuck designed those btw...

"what are you working on?"
"oh just the baby welding machine, the usual"
"... The what?"

[cobalt mulch]

one more heart-wrenching thing, wtf are those machines doing.. the welding stuff i believe only touched the hsu part, maybe removed the thing covering the baby

[eternal talon]

That's because there are zero audio logs for rise, and the most important log we have gotten for it was on the SMC website, not in-game

[abstract shuttle]

Oh okay

[abstract shuttle]

I got one more question about the strikers. When they go to bite you, is that the parasite inside them coming out, or something else?

[cobalt mulch]

parasite worm thing yup

[burnt wren]

We honestly dont know

The obvious assumption is its the parasite because it looks like a worm

However there's a log describing the parasite infiltrating protective Hazard gear, with clear implication being that it does so without the wearer noticing, which implies that it should be small

So instead people theorise that it's just humans' digestive tract being mutated and repurposed for offense

Unlti we get a proper fucking autopsy report - we are unclear on this front

@abstract shuttle

[eternal talon]

They took the body

So sad

[rocky wraith]

not assloads, genetics is a game of bioenergetic optimisation. I would honestly say that genome size is not an indicator of whether its a virus or a fungus due to the engineered genome stability. You need surprisingly few genes to make massive differences

[rocky wraith]

The direct accumulation of biomass I would imagine occurs either through just throwing on the bodies and pasting them in until they integrate, or by ingesting the bodies and applying the digested mass to be incorporated to the hive. The are probably multiple ideas on it, but these are the two that make most sense to me.

[rocky wraith]

I think it would incorporate as long as the variant is recognised as also being infected past a certain point. So for example, the Destination infected and the Earth Infected have been separated for at least 60 million years, and despite being in completely different forms they recognise each other as being infected and not hostile. So there is probably some inbuilt mechanism that prevents the sleepers from just going bananas on each other

[sweet harbor]

@rocky wraith that's only works true if you're modifying a body plan that already exists.

[dreamy hornet]

There's definitely something that prevents infected from aggroing against each other

[hardy sandal]

I noticed someone mentioned that nam-v was a manufactured weapon. when was this revealed, and if anyone happen to know the log?

Or is that speculation?

[dreamy hornet]

The fact that NAM-V can spread through just about anything, except maybe vacuum, and its stupidly high contagion level points towards it being a weapon.

It has near perfection infection levels, does someone near you have it? Congrats you have it now.

It's either the result of an absolutely nuts ecosystem where there are things that can resist it, or its a weapon and probably an extinction level weapon

[hardy sandal]

Surely we had no diseases naturally that have done this... So it's speculation

[south lake]

The reason we haven't had diseases that do this naturally is because it is quite literally physically impossible for a natural virus to develop like this

It would burn itself out before it got even remotely close, with or without human intervention

[hardy sandal]

It's unnattural for a virus to be very contagious?

Am I reading this right?

[south lake]

It's not just contagiousness that matters

NAM-V is fatal in days to weeks, depending on the host

As in 100% fatality rate

[hardy sandal]

Again, not un natural

Uncommon

But not un natural

[south lake]

Uh, yes. Yes it is.

[hardy sandal]

Alright... Thanks

[south lake]

A virus that's as contagious as this, as lethal as this, and able to survive in open air as long as NAM-V does does not occur naturally

A virus has to be designed to evolve this way, viruses gain nothing from killing their hosts so quickly in the natural world, because they don't have the ability to spread as quick as NAM-V does

[hardy sandal]

Neither does whatever they dug up, but doesn't mean it was engineered or a designed weapon. All you are saying is more guessing with 0 evidence, so my answer is it's pure speculation.

[south lake]

If NAM-V were naturally occurring, it wouldn't have the lifespan or the level of contagiousness to sustain its lethality without burning itself out

In fact, if it were natural, NAM-V would gradually evolve to become less lethal over time

[hardy sandal]

Answering a request for evidence with more speculation doesn't improve an arguement

[south lake]

Because again, a virus gains nothing if it kills its host

[earnest meteor]

I thought hydrostatis just put you into a form of cell “death” temporarily. Many of the logs shows that many of their “operatives” or “stock” as they refer to them as. Are infected etc. I don’t remember any logs that say the HSU removes the virus? (I must be missing it, as it’s the only way that makes sense Schaefer would have survived etc.

[south lake]

NHS/CDC/various virologic studies. There's your evidence for how viruses work. Also @rocky wraith

Also correct, the HSUs don't cure one of the virus, they simply stop it from progressing

[earnest meteor]

That’s what I thought. So all of our characters are infected. Bar a cure, our guys are screwed

More than they already are lol

[rocky wraith]

not really, the sheer amount of homolog genes that exist is staggering, the virus only needs to have a specific pattern in mind to alter

[finite vine]

I could agree that it is speculation also. The only evidence of it being a bioweapon is that Dauda said it was "designed". But thats really it, it honestly doesn't even sound like he is sure of it himself.

[hardy sandal]

Transforming the host to a new creature isn't killing it. Thanks for more speculation though, I needed it

[south lake]

The virus isn't what transforms people.

Maybe go read the lore primer instead of being a snarky ass.

[rocky wraith]

its the fact that it has multiple attack pathways which is in no way normal for viruses which usually are unfavourable towards genetic redundancies

[sweet harbor]

@rocky wraith I'm thinking about shooters and scouts in the game. Nowhere in people do we have genes that grow dozens of tenacles or turn our heads into artillery cannons with bioluminescent (or whatever) projectiles

You'd have to introduce all of that

[south lake]

The evidence is also in how it acts and evolves. Namely that it doesn't.

Viruses will guaranteed mutate after so much time has passed. Their genetics are inherently unstable.

[rocky wraith]

The magic (spikes that home in and stuff) nothing we have can explain, but up to that point we can, even the tendreils have all their componenets can be made from homolog proteins alternatively spliced

[earnest meteor]

What is the parasitic portion. They found it originally and it spreads the virus. It’s a large biomass right? So people get infected and start dying, then the parasites take over? Assuming the parasites are spread along with the virus itself?

[south lake]

The parasites are only spread within Garganta, since to our knowledge NAM-V has made it outside the facility, but the parasite has not.

[rocky wraith]

HSU's seem to reduce the infection levels and keep our prisoners alive, at the expense of their mental health. Not a cure, but a treatment that can at least prolong their life

[sweet harbor]

without getting into technicals I think we'll just disagree here

[rocky wraith]

why?

[earnest meteor]

I’m trying to think of a log where we can gather that it actually reduces infection. I don’t remember it, been reading/listening through all of them again recently

[rocky wraith]

no logs mention it, the best we get is the intro cut scenes to GTFO and the after-mission reports

[earnest meteor]

How much time has elapsed since rundown 1-7 in terms of actual time. Or is it unknown what year it is

[rocky wraith]

wait, maybe one log? but its a stretch

[rocky wraith]

@eternal talon Has a good idea on when the rundowns are taking place

we have accurate years I think?

[earnest meteor]

The logs could be decades old for all we know right? I didn’t look too closely at if any current communications, relative in game or any locations in game show a date etc

[rocky wraith]

Oh yeah, like we have dates from all over

About half the logs have dates on them

check out the Notion logs

[earnest meteor]

Yea and most are between like 2044-2055

[rocky wraith]

and up to 2063

[hasty condor]

I think I remember reading a log about hydrostasis technology in general that says something along the lines of nothing being able to survive without being carefully taken care of while in stasis, even pathogens

[rocky wraith]

yup, that's the one I was thinking of

[hasty condor]

But they also refer to the virus as a lifeform in other logs; I'm not a pathologist but I remember that viruses aren't actually alive so I dunno if they can "die"

[rocky wraith]

From the sound of it I reckoned that was the one they first discovered the virus

[rocky wraith]

Viruses are technically alive

[hasty condor]

Are they really?

[rocky wraith]

yeah

[hasty condor]

I was always thought they were kinda like "machines" made of proteins n stuff

[hardy sandal]

See ebola for a virus with fast infection/lethality

[rocky wraith]

we are literally machines made of protein

the difference is philosophical

[hardy sandal]

I don't think that was engineered

But maybe Im wrong

[rocky wraith]

check my reply

[hasty condor]

Yea but I mean they don't have any homeostasis or needs to stay alive ya know. They just need to stay in one piece till they can inject DNA into something

[rocky wraith]

not even DNA most times

[south lake]

RNA in the case of viruses, innit?

[hardy sandal]

Various viruses and diseases have multiple pathways to enter your body

[rocky wraith]

And "homeostasis" isn't required

[rocky wraith]

depends, you have a wide variety. negative sense RNA, positive sense RNA. SSDNA, DSDNA etc

[south lake]

You're literally arguing with someone who has a degree on this stuff. Have fun with that. lol

[rocky wraith]

Not a degree yet, in a year I'll have it lol

[hardy sandal]

I asked if there was evidence in-game stating it was manufactured, or that was speculation, and generated another page or two of speculation. It was a simple question, that got a long answer

[hasty condor]

Yea I'm not an expert or nothin. I'm just saying it sounds like things don't survive hydrostasis because they aren't sustained, but it seems to me like viruses don't need anything to stay functional

[south lake]

Still, more than close enough to be considered an expert, if not a professional expert.

[rocky wraith]

basically yes. And from the one part that Dauda mentions about it having multiple attack strategies. We can conclude from that it was engineered

[hasty condor]

Beans you an expert in this stuff for real?

[rocky wraith]

Just finished my 3rd year of Molecular and Cellular Biology at university

[hasty condor]

dude that's... cool beans

[rocky wraith]

heckin cool beans

I love it

[hasty condor]

Lol... I'll see myself out...

Good job and good luck on the rest of your schooling man

[rocky wraith]

Cheers mate, looking forward to my 4rth year

They let us literally genetically modify mouse neuron cells for our 3rd year, can't wait to see what they let us do next

[south lake]

Boring dissertations and defending your thesis?

lol

[hardy sandal]

Thanks, that's the basic sort of answer I was hoping for my original question, instead I got someone trying to answer that doesn't understand the word speculation

[rocky wraith]

np

Basic breakdown I can give for the reasoning is that; Viruses hate redundancy because they mutate so much that redundancies are lost quickly. A virus that has multiple attack redundancies that are retained on top of genes allowing it to genetically modify the host... yeah NAM-V has either gotta be artificially designed, or evolved in an environment so freaking bizarre and niche that I can't even imagine how you would get there.

[hasty condor]

whatcha think about it maybe being intelligent

don't reckon that's plausible in real life, but for video game sake

[hardy sandal]

My other thought was, with my understanding whatever that was being dug for, was not originally from this earth, so could have evolved under different conditions than we are familiar with

[rocky wraith]

I wish. But it depends on type of intelligence you mean, like sapience? consciousness? or do you mean fast adaptation?

[hasty condor]

Like self-aware ya know

I gotta his theory that the warden is tied to it, like another manifestation of it's intelligence

or that they're both alien intelligences that are hostile to each other or something along those lines

[rocky wraith]

yeah the meteorite that murked the dinos. Now we call it the Egg. possibly a spaceship but uncertain. We defo think it comes from destination, but destination doesn't look like it can provide the needed environment

[rocky wraith]

My theory was that the warden was a manifestation of all the prisoners memories and thoughts tied through the cortex injections and stacks.

[rocky wraith]

Not the virus itself, but some of the critters could eventually become such

[hasty condor]

dude now that's something I never thought about

would explain why it considers the prisoners expendable... It's transcended individuality

[hardy sandal]

Didn't they mention an AI in the logs recently that would handle prisoner tasks and objective stacks?

[rocky wraith]

Yup the Biocom system

its a Direct Intelligence AI

(I think)

one of the engineers mentions it

[hasty condor]

isn't it digital intelligence

[rocky wraith]

all AI are digital intelligences

[hardy sandal]

And we know that's only meant to be accessed by high ranking personnel

[rocky wraith]

but there are different types of AI

[hasty condor]

Yea I'm just saying that's what they call it

[rocky wraith]

yee

[rocky wraith]

Yup, and even then it kinda ran on its own. They only needed to peer into its head every now and then to check it was issuing the correct stacks

[hasty condor]

Aight im back to work. I'm glad there's some lorehounds in this community, lore is one of my favorite aspects of games

[hardy sandal]

Yeah, but Schaffer has acesss to it somehow. Do we know how he has done that?

Or is he a former high ranking employee maybe? Just a guess

[rocky wraith]

He has been in the walls for quite a while, and while he has access to a lot of Biocoms systems, he hasn't had access to the WRDNs systems till now

Its explained in R7D2

[rocky wraith]

He was only a C-tier pitboss

[hardy sandal]

Yeah he was able to leave messages, but not issue commands until R7. He first mentions the tank even back in r4

While leaving messages in the biocom

[rocky wraith]

Yup

its important to remember the distinction between WRDN and BIOCOM

As they are not one and the same

[hardy sandal]

I'm aware, it's like biocom is the platform, and warden is the entity using that platform to do the things. Schaffer, with the help of trojan, can now also do all the things with biocom

[rocky wraith]

yush yush!!!

[hardy sandal]

We still don't know what warden is do we? I'm guessing an AI, but no idea really

[rocky wraith]

As far as we can tell it's malware that was designed to take over biocom and the KSO's

But there is probably much more to it than that

[hardy sandal]

Also, does that acronym stand for something? WRDN? And where have we seen that?

Seems familiar, but not sure

[rocky wraith]

it prob does stand for something but I couldn't tell you

bet RD stands for Rundown tho lol

or just the R

[hardy sandal]

Could be the whole rdn for rundown

[rocky wraith]

oooo tru

[hardy sandal]

That seems odd to me if that would be it

[rocky wraith]

yeah

the w confuses me

[hardy sandal]

Same, very curious about it as well

Where did we see that again?

Was there a log that spelled it out like that?

[rocky wraith]

its literally on half the menu screens I thought

[sweet harbor]

biocom is tiktok

[hardy sandal]

Oh the startup screen? I haven't actually read or paid much attention to them in a while.

[hardy sandal]

Lol, biocom is probably less toxic and harmful to us

[eternal talon]

rundown 3 is 2063 as shown in a txt log. right now it is 2064. dates released on the WRDN twitter (bar the years) are canon.

[eternal talon]

yes

[shut mountain]

Quest questions cause i forgot some stuff 😭 A, Around what time did NAM-V show its head first in the complex, and B, When did Bishop return from the expedition

Really thinking about the fact that he might have had brought it in too

[harsh saffron]

Nam-V was around since April 2052, at least when they noticed it. Bishop came back around June 2055 roughly.

[shut mountain]

Dankeee

Yeah thats a 3 year long gap big sadge

Still thinking abt him coming back thou

Or rather how he was led by someone

[burnt wren]

What's wrong about it?

[shut mountain]

I remember googling the meaning of the "name" and it meant "faith" or unavoidable happenings if i recall correctly

😭 can someone be a chad and fetch me that transcript that talks about it

Dr. Stokes one

[harsh saffron]

where she talks about the time differences or when Bishop came back?

[shut mountain]

When Bishop came back

[harsh saffron]

one sec

[shut mountain]

When she sums up what she has heard from him before he got carried away by Kovac

[harsh saffron]

https://gtfo.fandom.com/wiki/Rundown_6.0_Logs#Dr._Stokes_Audio_#4

Hope you meant this one ^^

[shut mountain]

Danke danke

Grr its not this one

Ill find it eventually

Dont mind me Im just laying in bed, being tipsy and thinkinf abt GTFO lore

[harsh saffron]

I think there aren't that many logs about it, can really only think of 2 more. The 2 where Stokes theorises about the data they got from the expedition

[shut mountain]

Yeee

I need to freshen up my lore, i keep forgetting stuff

[harsh saffron]

Relatable ^^'

[shut mountain]

There is just so much man 😭 Id really love a in-game encyclopedia or archive

So even people who missed previous rundowns can catch up without having to go through several websites

[harsh saffron]

I would imagine most ppl wouldn't read/listen to more than a few logs but it would still be pretty neat indeed

[subtle verge]

Sounds like some strings you might be able to pull, Rav.

[shut mountain]

I dont think I have those strings homie 😭 I wish I did thou, it would be so much easier for new players to get into the lore

Cause rn they need the wiki, the confluence, the pinned message summaries here, their credit card number...etc.

Santonian website too

Does the Santonian website have the Schaeffer expedition audios?

[harsh saffron]

hm didn't check yet for r6 honestly

doesn't look like it

[shut mountain]

F

[harsh saffron]

also not the logs that play at doors now that I think about it

like the 4 by stokes in C1

[shut mountain]

Ouch

Yeah those should be on it imo

Well, time to add it to the "Drop this on Calle when he is back" list

[burnt wren]

At some point you have to ask how obscure your lore can get before we officially declare it bad through sheer inability to comprehend it without inappropriate amount of effort

[shut mountain]

I just hope it wont end up having Payday 2 syndrome

Where it becomes hectic and stupid af at the end

Butchering the otherwise great concept

[green burrow]

There's an official YouTube channel which posts some of the more important audio logs for new players.

[earnest meteor]

https://youtube.com/channel/UC4j_b_33Cpl2uFio4rzofzg

This is a great channel for the audio logs. Then I usually use the wiki for text

[eternal talon]

I'm 100% certain that is NOT official

The devs post nothing related to the lore on YouTube

And the only thing out of game at all they post lore to is the santonian website

Just the fact that we have to go out of our way to collect audio files for our community resources here proves this.

[south lake]

The name is unfortunate, but the guy doesn't say it's official.

[abstract shuttle]

I mean, the image of a worm that big sneaking through hazmat gear is funny lmao

[crimson night]

Yeah, that YouTube channel is not official.
I should probably make that a bit clearer.

[rare patrol]

This is an extreme longshot but in one of Scaeffer's logs he has memories of a "mountain of bodies on fire" (can't remember how he phrased it exactly), I feel like Schaeffer witnessed the first pile of biomass that then went on to turn into the first gen of sleepers that ravaged the Complex. IT'S VERY FARFETCHED but considering just how deranged Schaeffer is maybe he just unconsciously knows he saw something extremely fucked up and supresses it

[cobalt mulch]

iirc the body pyre was their way to destroy evidence of namv casualties, dunno if i remember right

[rare patrol]

True, that's still biomass though. Instead of making the situation more manageable, maybe they made it a million times worse? I don't know if burnt biomass is still useful for the mutagen agent (Parasite probably) but the charger variants of the sleepers lowkey look if they were burnt

[cobalt mulch]

and giant legs ftm .. and its actually kinda hard to burn liquidy flesh completely. good point.

[rare patrol]

That's just my hypothesis tho, I'll leave it there in case someone more knowledgeable can either refute it or support it

[eternal talon]

the burning of the bodies was before they even started digging afik

it was to cover up a disaster in the local area caused by earthquakes

[south lake]

Except there was that eyewitness call

The guy mentioned the bodies had come out "broken" and "wrong"

Then ended up getting got by Santonian/Kovac security

[eternal talon]

https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?p=64ad7e4123f142d2911ad115f19d06e8

2049

"burn them"

https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?p=5d6e132a47804d1faea8f0eb16a9685e

**Thanks for dealing with the Red Cross. They have been removed from the area
and we can get back to business. One thing - they didn’t get to Chicxulub,
and we have. Looks like your evac teams didn’t even touch this place. What do
you want us to do with the bodies? There’s a lot of them. Not sure what
killed them but our med team assures me it’s not toxins.

Let me know. We can burn them if you want.**

[eternal talon]

happened yeeeears before

though still likely to be either a nam-v outbreak, or allen sleepers attacking, same as what happened to the mayans

not related to garganta

as it didn't exist yet

[lilac island]

excuse for dis mistake but ill have trouble with my Computer and ass sad as it is he will leave me thisyear and i:m as Sad as You that he also Leave me often allone. so forgive him and Me ill hope you understud what i mean .

[burnt wren]

[cobalt mulch]

<dr evil> ... rrriiiight..

[rocky wraith]

Burnt biomass is practically useless to anything but plants and unicellular organisms as fertiliser

[south lake]

Okay, but the State of Truth caller that got nabbed by Santonian/Kovac?

The one that said the bodies were coming out "wrong" and "broken"?

[finite vine]

yea, that audio log took place when garganta was already established. the "burning bodies" log took place when santonian just started to mine

[eternal talon]

it would seem it took a while to find them.

[subtle verge]

The bodies that were burned from the natural disaster took place around the coast in July of 2049 (per the communications), right around the time that Garganta was just starting ground break/construction phase. The walls were completed and curing in August of 2050, but drilling didn't officially start until some weeks after that. If memory serves, NAM-V wasn't publicly announced to Garganta until somewhere around late 2052 (I'll double check/someone will verify me on that front). My guess is that the SMC worker bodies being burnt didn't occur until around that timeframe (December 2052), or even until early 2053.

[eternal talon]

wdym "smc worker bodies"

[timid palm]

wait a sec
are the schaffer "monster" logs from R6C2 talking about Specimen 22 at the end of DX?

[subtle verge]

The... the bodies that Schaeffer mentions? The workers that suffered through NAM-V and died in the complex.

I doubt Schaeffer would have seen bodies being burnt before he even arrived to Garganta, so him seeing the bodies burnt from the natural disaster would make no sense.

[subtle verge]

Yes, Specimen 22 is the creature that speaks.

[timid palm]

neato

[timid palm]

also what does Rise mean?

only thing i can guess is Schaffers rise of a revolution

[hasty condor]

you dunno what kind of weird shit Schaeffer's into

[rain bronze]

Yeah, I think Schaeffer's logs of A1 could have been shortened a bit. Most importantly, the part where he 'sticks' Maddox

[subtle verge]

Project Rise is/was, in my current hypothesis, a project to create "synthetic" (use that term loosely) humans for the Legion Project for Kovac; most likely in an attempt to create a perfect private military using "human seeds."

That being said, there's a lot more coming out about Rise that will give a lot more information, but that's a gist of what we know thus far.

[wild narwhal]

This. It's been largely assumed that specimen 22/the mimic/deformed humanoid dead body found in Rundown 6 DX near the end (killed by Schaeffer in an audio log) is an experimental product of Project Rise to create clone operatives.

Specimen 22 was childish in many ways. Likely unable to function much beyond following direct orders from a warden for every step of a process/series of tasks assigned to it. Clearly not a result of normal human development from the way it interacted with Schaeffer. So, clones that rapidly develop with no proper upbringing. And deformed physically, 22 had elongated limbs.

However, 22 reportedly also had advantages when dealing with sleepers. Schaeffer describes it/him as walking among the monsters found in Gargantua without them reacting to its presence. It's likely the Warden was experimenting with creating human clones adapted specifically to deal with them,.

It's possible the Warden's modifications to the human genome includes mutations tailored to face other challenges in the complex. Like NAM-V immunity or resistance, oxygen levels not ideal to 'normal' humans, slower metabolism to deal with extended deployments with little food/water, enhanced low-light vision, reduced need to sleep, biomass unsuitable for parasite infestation.. Etc. But this would just be speculation on my part.

It's also probable that the clones are intended to be entirely disposable. Likely incapable of reproducing. Maybe unable to function without the Warden's care. Through a designed inability to consume anything not a nutrient solution granted by the Warden. Like Combine stalkers made from captive rebel humans in Half-life 2. Or through some other added control.

Despite this, the Warden specifically asked us to check 22's status in R6 DX upon learning of his fate at the hands of Schaeffer. 22 may have had some value to the Warden. At least as a test prototype. I wonder, was 22 assigned to contact Schaeffer? Or was the encounter unintended?

[wild narwhal]

It's unnatural for a virus to be that lethal. That contagious, sure, that's more believable. The lethality is what leads many to believe it is a weapon.

A virus needs at least some of its hosts to survive. Polio had a lethality rate of up to 30% among adolescents to adults. And polio is pretty damn scary, mutilating many of its survivors. Ebola has a 25-90% lethality rate. I think a bacterial infection like the bubonic plague can be more lethal, as bacteria are cells in and of themselves. While a single virus particle is called a virion. Which is a set of genes bundled within a shell called a capsid. These need to enter, and replace or add-to a cell's existing genes to subsume it towards spreading and housing the virus.

(Forgive me if I am wrong with anything, I am a bilingual interpreter with no concluded university studies. Also a lifelong follower of scientific divulgation and science fiction.)

If a virus has an 100% lethality rate, then that virus effectively extinguishes itself after killing all available hosts. A virus does not seek this. A virus seeks to propagate itself and preserve itself indefinitely if possible. Hence why many believe NAM-V to be a bioweapon, which would have any evolutionary design towards self-preservation over-ridden by the intent to simply kill.

Even tidy up after itself by killing so effectively, that those responsible for deploying the bioweapon can enter the affected area after all hosts have expired and decomposed beyond capability of housing the virus. Short of the bodies being preserved under some condition like being frozen. I think being kept cool and dry away from scavengers and predators in a cave might also accomplish this.

NAM-V is a virus that when combined with a parasite of unknown origin, results in some hosts becoming sleepers.

[dim scroll]

The thing is NAM-V can sustain itself on any medium

So it doesn't care about having a host

[eternal talon]

No clones. The rise logs say this explicitly. "Not clones"

[eternal talon]

^ read this chat log I had the other day explaining how rise works

[eternal talon]

^this log for the "not clones" thing

The ONLY issue we know of currently regarding RISE is the issues with smarts of the subjects, still having the mental capacity of children

RISE was never finished. UNIT 22 was never a part of that

That is entirely WRDN's doing,

Using what is left from rise and manipulating it with genetic samples and data from NAM-V and whatever else to create his UNITS

Of those being, unit ? In r2/r3, unit 22 in r6, and unit 23 in r7

[wild narwhal]

I didn't realize that. Must have missed that detail. Looks like that does fuel the possibility it might be a super alien virus that developed in an ecosystem where something may be resilient to it. But earth-life simply has no defenses against it. Or other similar origins.

[wild narwhal]

I must have missed that. If I had fixed my own use of clones from 'vat-grown people' to the proper definition of clones, I probably wouldn't have used the word.

[hardy sandal]

Oh cool, more speculation around nam-v, I love it

[wild narwhal]

That is what most of this thread is going to be. Speculation from what little is explicitly stated. I mean there is a lot of information on the logs, but most of it just leaves even more questions to be had after analyzing it.

If you want more definite answers to some questions, best wait for more story content to be released until something is revealed that confirms one theory or another. Or brings to light something new entirely.

[hardy sandal]

I am, hence why I don't spend a lot of time in this channel, it's just all fan theory grasping at straws

[dim scroll]

epic

[wild narwhal]

And some people enjoy that. Including me from time to time. It's no fun to just wait.

I just felt that the person originally answering your question was being condescending and too curt to offer any explanation. I may have misread him because some things, sarcasm among them, don't always translate well to text.

And someone corrected me with information that lends credence to NAM-V possibly not being a bioweapon at all. Which I appreciate.

[dim scroll]

NAM-V is basically the ultimate virus

Survive on any medium, extremely high transmission rate, 100% lethality rate, is secreted by subjects through literally any bodily fluid

[burnt wren]

So either:
A) The ultimate super apex virus
B) Artificially designed that way

[eternal talon]

bruh. i research every statement

nobody in here is "grasping at straws"

a lot of us are extremely dedicated

[vagrant fiber]

Bio weapon this is some Spec Ops The Line levels of shafted given what white phosphorus does to the body NAM-V is only logical evolution.

[hardy sandal]

All I meant was much of things here are very speculative, and always has been. Many provide good evidence towards that speculation, like yourself, and those can be interesting to explore, but many others make statements as if they are true. Not sure why you took that personally, sorry if you felt that was derogatory towards you.

[wild narwhal]

And I'm sorry if I defended a popular theory as if it was fact by attempting to explain why it's popular. I felt that the person originally answering you didn't even attempt that, and was simply going 'it's this.'

Somebody else already interjected with why it's a theory, and why other origins for NAM-V are possible.

[teal urchin]

Schaffer is probably one of the biggest sources of lore in the game

[wild narwhal]

And I'm increasingly starting to feel that he is entirely unreliable as a source of information. At least concerning some topics. Even if he had his full memory available to him, he was a Santonian Mining pit boss/manager and not part of the research going on in Gargantua. Nor was he a Kovac employee with access to any significant information.

He's gathered what he can while surviving. In many ways, he is like the players gathering knowledge from the environment. He is special in that he is also the game design/narrative tool used to lead us to things of interest within/beyond that environment. While sharing limits to his own perspective on things as a character.

And as a character he has shown that he doesn't always prioritize the well-being of the player characters, as hinted at through his dialogue in R7D2. So, just like the Warden, he may have reasons to obfuscate or even fail to mention critical information to the prisoner's survival. To avoid it dissuading them from completing an objective.

[subtle verge]

I've fully subscribed to the idea that the WRDN isn't our bad guy, instead that mantle is being taken by Schaeffer; and not necessarily the traditional good/bad guy concept, but more-so Schaeffer is the greater of the evils with my current working thought processes & theories.

[wild narwhal]

I feel that way as well. Like, in no way is the WRDN entirely benevolent from an ethical and moral perspective. But even when being ethically dubious, like when creating Specimen-22 and similar entities, it might have the goal of helping humanity survive. In some way, shape, or form.

Or at least figuring out what is behind everything. Whether it's been designed to act on its own towards this or guided by some other individual(s) we've yet to meet.

Schaeffer on the other hand, is acting only to deceive and subvert the WRDN towards his own survival. Not even the survival of the player characters. His. While he probably also wants the best for humanity at large if he could see beyond the scope of his immediate survival, he may accidentally compromise the WRDN's efforts towards this through his reckless behavior.

(going off-topic)

Regarding Specimen-22 I prefer to regard it as a he/him than an it. Obviously we are within the context of the game's lore not in a circumstance for it to be a maker of it's own fate, and decide on how it wishes to identify. But I empathize with it like I do other humans who do not enjoy either the full mental or physical abilities other humans do.

Despite many sharing the cynicism of Thomas Hobbes, claiming humanity lacks 'humanity.' We are better as a species for seeking to help those compromised in their abilities reach the same potential as others. Or at least come as close to it as possible, even beyond it through some talent allowed to express itself despite however it would be denied in-nature.

The knowledge this reaps is also productive to those of us privileged with healthy bodies and/or minds. For all of us could be rendered unto similar states by an accident. By genetic fate or health. Specimen-22 finds himself in such an altered state through the WRDN's manipulation of his growth. We best know how to recover from such states if we as a species have already been working to help those born into them.

[eternal talon]

to be totally fair, schaeffer and all KSOs were/are enslaved by a WRDN that doesn't really care about their survival chances.

he also had a backstory of a broken household

as detailed in his employment email

(that link at the bottom leads to the unredacted version of this file)

[wild narwhal]

My point is, Schaeffer may inadvertently make things worse for everyone. Maybe even himself. Simply because of the way he is going about things. From his position, he is also actively learning about his environment and that involves experimentation and mistakes.

Mistakes that were fatal to Maddox, and possibly others listed on the whiteboard in his hide-out. Mistakes that could be costly to everyone if he comes into control of more systems without knowing the full extent of them.

https://tenor.com/view/wreck-it-ralph-zangief-bad-guy-bad-mean-gif-4526339

[eternal talon]

yeah that's fair.

i gotta ask, you hadn't posted in this channel ever before a couple days ago, how did you get up-to-date on the lore so fast?

(also here is a pic of that board pre-update, after update maddox was un-crossed off)

[wild narwhal]

I've been lurking a lot since I started playing GTFO with Rundown 6. I prefer to get my knowledge about logs/audio logs in-game. To experience it as it was intended, in my opinion. Then come in here to see if anyone is discussing what I've read/heard in-game. Because curiosity gets the best of me.

But since I started playing with Rundown 6, I've needed to use youtube videos/the wiki to get up-to-date with lore from previous rundowns.

[eternal talon]

some of it is also exclusive to the SMC. website

this is generally the best place for finding out and discussing the lore

in regards to stuff you missed from previous rundowns,

[wild narwhal]

Yeah, I've checked out the SMC website too but not lately.

[eternal talon]

Warden and zander have a summary in the pins of all past rundowns

gameplay wise

and i have the "for dummies" doc of all logs that take place before that (that are dated)

and the god-send that is the notion.so is also in the pins