That was going to be my next point actually. The fact that the mother's and ceiling cocoons can perform live births of the sleepers is certainly not the most normal thing
#gtfo-lore
abstract ledge
You know, maybe the sheer peculiarity of it is a point in favor of the "planet destroying bioweapon" theory. Shit ain't natural.
solar nova
Tbh if it's a symbiote then it might not be that crazy.
The parasite is a standard colony creature that forms flesh shells for nesting or having a larger body, the virus is just a very extreme infectious disease.
(assuming this is the division of labor).
It's essentially a highly evolved ant/siphonophore cross associated w/ an extremely deadly pathogen.
south lake
Except that's not at all how viruses work, and the game tries to maintain at least a shred of reality about it.
Viruses jump from species to species partly because the physiology of the target species is at the very least similar enough to be compatible. A component of a virus that targets the lymphatic system in people or animals for example, won't be able to do so in a plant, because a plant doesn't have a lymphatic system.
tough merlin
I read a lot of the discussion, I'm still unsure why NAM-V can be that strong as it is indeed a virus
Viral genomes are so fragile
environment is important for a virus to stay alive & be able to spread
however the design made in the game are very corresponding to something I would say could be a viral infection
as virus manifest itself mainly in airway & digestive system
what is currently known about NAM-V? I'm curious to the lore itself as I am quite new
burnt wren
what is currently known about NAM-V? I'm curious to the lore itself as I am quit...
Up until now we didn't know much, but in E1 there's a log that explains quite a bunch.
Until then all we knew that It has 100% mortality rate. No survivors, no immunity, no hope.
Log in E1, written by Dauda himself, notes that nam-v spreads through every possible route of infection and aggressively so, which seems to point to it being artificial bio weapon, rather than something that appeared naturally.
It is also appears to be in symbiotic relationship with the parasite. Parasite acts as the carrier, in return virus gives it extended - potentially indefinite - life span. Parasite is what creates sleepers, without it namv just kills and that's that.
tough merlin
Makes way more sense with a parasite in play
For me when I opened the game for the first time i didn't think zombie virus (the usual) but an experimemt on parasites gone wrong
Thanks a lot for the info
eternal talon
For me when I opened the game for the first time i didn't think zombie virus (th...
We didn't make or even introduce the parasite to it, in-game it is described as "just another victim" of nam-v or something along those lines
burnt wren
Yep, Dauda implies that virus just found the parasite and took its' species for itself.
The parasite is just a bystander.
dim scroll
For me when I opened the game for the first time i didn't think zombie virus (th...
It's not even a zombie virus actually
Unless i'm wrong zombie viruses rely on the idea someone dies then gets revived under the influence of said virus
In this case subjects seem to still be alive the moment they start transforming
dreamy hornet
Viruses jump from species to species partly because the physiology of the target...
True but we're dealing with a hypothetical virus that can infect via any known method or substance (except maybe vaccum?) so at some point it feels like hand waiving will happen. The actual mechanisms to jump from humans to plants would be ridiculous yes but we're dealing with a ridiculous virus that's teamed up with a parasite that seemingly causes massive physiological changes without killing the host that effectively turns the host into a new organism. We're on the barest shreds of reality at this point.
eternal talon
not really. extreme? absolutely. but it isn't really "on the barest shreds of reality"
Beanz could probably rant about nam-v for hours
and i still wouldn't understand a single sentince
but i trust his judgement
eternal talon
In this case subjects seem to still be alive the moment they start transforming
yes, the host still needs to be "alive" for nam-v, so its essentially a hyper-advanced "meat puppet"
probably extremely painful until they are rendered unconscious by the mutations
and to the point where there isn't much left to perceive the pain, or think for that matter, really.
rocky wraith
Viral genomes are so fragile
Not untrue, but there are a diverse range of viruses and some are very stable when compared to others
Like the comparison between negative sense RNA viruses and DSDNA viruses, the latter are much more stable and if they have a more developed proofreading polymerase then even more so
rocky wraith
I read a lot of the discussion, I'm still unsure why NAM-V can be that strong as...
A large genome with many genes that contain proteins keyed for hijacking the systems of multicellular creatures would account for it. Combined with the evidence of multiple attack strategies we can safely assume it was designed artificially
rocky wraith
Viruses jump from species to species partly because the physiology of the target...
exactly. Most viruses that infect humans originate from other animals, often because the receptor protein that the virus targets to gain entry also happens to have homologs across species
rocky wraith
In this case subjects seem to still be alive the moment they start transforming
We've seen hundreds of examples of the virus giving up on transforming targets, possibly because they died first
vagrant fiber
So there are certain conditions that have to be made for transformation via the parasite and virus other wise its certain death.
real pewter
so
since we have partially control of the Warden
can the Warden found out that we control it?
south lake
Uh.. I don't know where you're getting the idea that we control WRDN.
Doing the digital equivalent of shoving bugs down its pants ain't the same as controlling it.
real pewter
like, we scramble obj or something in E1 right?
schaeffer said like, we can make the warden do what we want to do
south lake
Schaeffer also isn't exactly mentally stable.
Or someone I would be willing to trust.
dim scroll
like, we scramble obj or something in E1 right?
We inject a trojan into BIOCOM such that we have a partial control of it as well
I don't think we're controlling warden
rather we're also taking control of BIOCOM and it collides with warden
And yes schaeffer is mentally messed up
But he doesn't seem to be entirely fucked up to kill people for no reason
small bobcat
Hey he seemed stable enough to be able to pull Henrikson out from operator condition
small bobcat
Nah dude seems at least a wee bit kooky
At least the player characters seem to have their heads on more straight
burnt wren
He was a mad scientist
Now he's just mad
Although actually... Not really.
Hsu reset the man for good.
He talks weird, but that's his only criticism.
dense bobcat
We inject a trojan into BIOCOM such that we have a partial control of it as well
was digging through my screenshots and found this, don't remember where i took it but marginally relevant
dim scroll
That's not related to the trojan
It's mostly that BIOCOM detects WRDN & try to suppress it
then WRDN disconnects BIOCOM
and so on
eternal talon
👆
polar pulsar
Is there like a summary (video or otherwise) of the 4 playable prisoners' backstories?
I know snippets here and there but kind of hard to keep track of the full thing.
topaz flare
Is there like a summary (video or otherwise) of the 4 playable prisoners' backst...
wiki
R5 logs
but heres a summary
woods was a solider he was put into the legion program because he killed 12 ppl in a military church looking for god
dauda was a doctor and a staff at the complex he researched on the sleepers
he wasn't put into the legion program
but he needed to escape the sleepers when the outbreak happeend
so he put himself in a HSU
hackett was a hired gun
and ahhhh how do i say this
he committed warcrimes and a genocide on a whole village
he asked to be put into the legion program
after not feeling anything
bishop...
i dont really know other than he was so dangerous at hacking and finding information he on accident blackmailed the CEO of the santonian company
@polar pulsar
polar pulsar
Yikes, thats some crazy things they did.
Thanks for the summary. I'll start reading on the wiki.
topaz flare
thats why im on wardens and the ppl on the surface side
like we have all rights to be down here
we are murderers and criminals
livid grotto
Is there like a summary (video or otherwise) of the 4 playable prisoners' backst...
That’s a good video, https://youtu.be/W6o4DjIwPhQ
polar pulsar
That’s a good video, https://youtu.be/W6o4DjIwPhQ
Thanks
clever niche
we are murderers and criminals
Idk if santonian, Kovac, and whoever made warden are exactly any better though.
eternal talon
Is there like a summary (video or otherwise) of the 4 playable prisoners' backst...
lore for dummies doc in the pins has all 4 character summaries given to us by the devs
one of the things that sucks specifically about GTFO lore videos is how fast they go completely out of date
every single rundown changes elements of the entire timeline because of how little we know per-log
and while you technically can update a lore video, a txt or a google doc is 1000000x easier to work with and maintain
polar pulsar
One thing hat strikes me as odd from the stories is that many mention Nam-V is man-made. Yet the mining operation on gargantua they just mined up something bad and suddenly sleepers and a massive explosion.
isnt that contradicting to eachother?
eternal talon
Nam-v and the parasite are not natives to earth.
Dauda blames himself for their outbreak into the facility
can you pls link me a log that mentions nam-v as man-made? i don't ever recall finding a log like that
https://www.notion.so/GTFO-Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0 (here is a link to the gtfo timeline and ALL logs)
because at this point in the lore, they've autopsied and colelcted dozens, perhaps many more alien specimens from the meteor
(the autopsy, n' the new hammerstein log)
burnt wren
To be fair
eternal talon
To be fair
it isn't explicitly mentioned either, yeah.
burnt wren
The outside world could treat namv as man-made, as it fits the criteria
To assume its alien would be an even bigger conspiracy theory
eternal talon
well, "treat" kinda implies, y'know.. they could treat it
burnt wren
No one but kovac knows
eternal talon
To assume its alien would be an even bigger conspiracy theory
for the people on the surface, yeah
eternal talon
No one but kovac knows
WB Insight bro -> Dr. Gallus Hammerstein
the literal guy
with the collection
eternal talon
the stoops
burnt wren
Until kovac put a stop to that
eternal talon
Calling it garganta flu or whatever
that's entirely smc staff though, IN GARGANTA
ppl on surface don't know shit, even WHO doesn't know exactly where it came from until everybody is already dead
eternal talon
it is how it is
burnt wren
I just can't believe kovac would be this inept
Like what's the endgame?
Let humanity die without exposing their sins?
Great plan, 10/10
eternal talon
world 110% dead (as per SOT radio broadcast) by 2059, WHO finds out NAM-V came from garganta in 2057
so by 2057 probably not more than a couple million left, as the virus would infect slower with less people
burnt wren
Great. To what end?
eternal talon
for kovac?
or for w.h.o.
first thought, kinda dumb but,
(easy to take over the world if nobody left to resist)
because they were trying to keep it on lockdown at first.. then just.. didn't really care
so they might have just said "eh, fuck it, lets just roll with it. it's already out"
burnt wren
"we destroyed humanity, sorry"
eternal talon
that implies they'd actually be sorry, i mean c'mon,
it's kovac we are talking about here
past matrix
what if they're part of a cult that are trying to like cleanse the world of its sins
burnt wren
And it's very lame from writing perspective. A very low hanging fruit.
burnt wren
what if they're part of a cult that are trying to like cleanse the world of its ...
That would actually be a very cool plot twist. Religious fanatics are preferable to "ill destroy humanity for cold heart cash"
Like dead space fanatics, forgot their name
Unitologists?
They weren't evil, just misguided.
Terribly, horribly misguided.
Now that's both more believable and interesting.
polar pulsar
can you pls link me a log that mentions nam-v as man-made? i don't ever recall f...
I don't know of a specific log. Just a general consensus I see in people discussing it. For example that it infects/spreads in your airways aggressively in a way that's not natural.
pearl wave
which doesnt mean man-made just not made by earthern standards
burnt wren
MEN didn't do It, aliens did
polar pulsar
burnt wren
"artificial" is a better word
eternal talon
Unitologists?
NO NOT AGAIN!
polar pulsar
"artificial" is a better word
Artificial = man-made. Unless aliens did it right?
eternal talon
Artificial = man-made. Unless aliens did it right?
basically meaning: it sn't natural
it is artificially created
in this case, by allens
sorry for the confusion,
burnt wren
Man-made usually implies the men (humanity) had something to do with it.
In this rare case we didn't.
... Unless its our counterpart from another dimension.
Which is, unfortunately, a possibility the way current lore reveals go.
pearl wave
or our pre dinosaur ancestors
eternal talon
we haven't seen alternate earth even, (unless that's r6d4)
polar pulsar
The dimension thing isnt that far fetched considering the datacubes
pearl wave
it could be dimensions or giant ass star gating
eternal talon
The dimension thing isnt that far fetched considering the datacubes
well its not about being far-fetched, we know it's true, two of the rebecca stokes logs released in this rundown explain it so.
nova valley
we haven't seen alternate earth even, (unless that's r6d4)
Maybe 1 day future run down will take place on surface?
eternal talon
the difficult part is understanding and interpreting how exactly it works
eternal talon
Maybe 1 day future run down will take place on surface?
maybe/maybe not. as far as we know, there are 0 sleepers on the surface
(aside from maybe fliers now after r6b1)
eternal talon
none are.
that, is destination
and multidimensional interplanetary location in a completely different plain of existence.
essentially, it is a planet that also (in-game) exists in our universe
pearl wave
ah didnt understand he meant earth surface
eternal talon
in the butterfly nebula
3k light years away
though we aren't going to ours
we are using the coordinates of ours to go to theirs, in their dimension
as from what it would seem, you can only use the MWP to translocate between places that exist in both dimensions
as for the aliens.. given it crashed on earth and didn't just teleport there.. earth may or may not exist in their universe, as they just teleported the meteor to space near the planet, not on it (since it crashed and killed the dinos)
burnt wren
Ultra big brain teleportstions
pearl wave
^they prob ported it to save themselves
eternal talon
these aliens are way way more advanced than humanity, it isn't even close
eternal talon
^they prob ported it to save themselves
thats one of the main theories regarding nam-v
burnt wren
Teleporting to another planet? Lame.
Teleporting to another dimension? Double lame!
Let's do both at the same time!
eternal talon
and personally one i find most likely
that they fucked up with nam-v and tried to escape to earth, but accidentally brought it with them
pearl wave
either to save themselves or to test it
eternal talon
given their home world of destination is well.. completely infected and a barren wasteland as far as we have seen
dim scroll
Would NAM-V transform their planet into a freaking desert tho
pearl wave
still surprising how there seem to be complexes or "human" like structures on their world
dim scroll
These were made by humans
eternal talon
Would NAM-V transform their planet into a freaking desert tho
i dont know
pearl wave
Would NAM-V transform their planet into a freaking desert tho
we dont know if their worlds nam-v mutated to eat plants
dim scroll
There are mentions of humans (such as schaeffer) who teleported to destination
eternal talon
we dont know if their worlds nam-v mutated to eat plants
there are still living plants on destination.
eternal talon
There are mentions of humans (such as schaeffer) who teleported to destination
log? when did schaeffer teleport to destination?
i don't remember that
dim scroll
log? when did schaeffer teleport to destination?
iirc he teleported with someone else and one of them survived (schaeffer)
Or was it someone else ?
burnt wren
There were 2 workers who dissappeared I believe
burnt wren
I wonder if he even knows of it
eternal talon
that stuff would be hella classified
pearl wave
he prob reading the logs of it right now
dim scroll
I wonder if he even knows of it
I'm pretty sure he does
Wasn't he the one who decided to dig below 1500m ?
burnt wren
Uh
Not sure
He was given orders to and that's it
He knows what sleepers are though
eternal talon
He knows what sleepers are though
by that point everyone would though
pearl wave
do we know anything about if time between dimensions is consistent?
eternal talon
Wasn't he the one who decided to dig below 1500m ?
which log?
eternal talon
do we know anything about if time between dimensions is consistent?
it is 85:1
eternal talon
in seconds
eternal talon
yes
pearl wave
so earth faster or destination faster?
eternal talon
destination
burnt wren
Desination
eternal talon
bishop was there for 2 years but only a week or so in earth time
pearl wave
yeah so he just kept talking then
eternal talon
Was it confirmed to be 85:1 ?
It's not a relativity issue. This is a calculable change in the quantum frequency. Durant's time was running faster than our time. And not by a little - by a lot. Back of the envelope math is 1 second in our quantum frequency is about 85 seconds in Durant's quantum frequency.
destination's world line is just.. faster by default, than ours
the fundamentals of how time works there is different
pearl wave
that explains how they managed to build the structures
eternal talon
i can do the math on this
firt trip to destination by humans, ef01 is june 05, 2055
r3 is 2063...
i have to look at the wrdn twitter
you can 100% math this shit
to find out the exact amount of time they had
eternal talon
nov 5
eternal talon
nov5 2063 was the end of r3
so with that we can work backwards
to when r1 was,
then use the date for r1 as the end and the ef01 launch date as the beginning
and voila
mar30, 2063 was the end of r1
so...
85:1 between june 05, 2055 to march 30, 2063 is...
a big big number
is 246,672,000 seconds (earth time)
JESUS CHRIST
20967120000 seconds destination time
that is 664.86 YEARS!
eternal talon
But no mention of the 2K m escavation or the egg
afik garganta only goes down to 1.5k, no further.
of course they dug deeper,
but garganta only runs that far
the rest is mining tunnels and stuff
eternal talon
20967120000 seconds destination time
20 billion, 967 million, 120 thousand seconds
drowsy furnace
Say… what does the warden want with those artifacts…?
They’re just… either blobs, a little worm looking thing, or something that looks like koffing
And someone ping me on this because I’ll soon forget about it…
subtle verge
Something new (IRL) from our previous conversations of quantum entanglement! Neat: https://www.iflscience.com/record-breaking-experiment-quantum-entangles-two-atoms-20-miles-apart-64374?fbclid=IwAR2S9S-Q1rhBh9s7qVnKm--GjiMSkU5C4xtBo4cFyNtCUZt6C-5wcmbnzrs
south lake
Holy shit
real pewter
quantum internet
south lake
QE-based Internet? Hell yes
Can only imagine how insane the speeds of that might be
Now we just need to figure out how to send data VIA that entanglement
Then you've got one hell of a strong foundation for it, provided we can figure out the energy requirements for something like that. Lasers aren't cheap, electricity-wise.
subtle verge
Not to mention the cost of fiber optic cable; looking at $1-$6 USD per 30cm. That's easily $15k-$30k USD to line an office building, let alone 20 miles.
subtle verge
For sure.
south lake
Telecommunications is a disgustingly profitable business venture, since it's so critical to everyday life, literally everywhere
So I have no doubt that once they figure it out, they're gonna snap that shit up faster than you can blink
And of course charge an arm and a leg for it while updating their networks at a snail's pace, because the world is sorely overdue for telecom regulations updates regarding that.
south lake
Something new (IRL) from our previous conversations of quantum entanglement! Nea...
Punk, you suck. My nerdbrain is going apeshit thinking of the possibilities Quantum Entanglement could allow for us. Practically vibrating in my headspace right now.
lmao
God, what if QE paves the way for other FTL mechanisms?
finite vine
God, what if QE paves the way for other FTL mechanisms?
Quantum Entanglement can't transfer information faster than light though. That's the thing, its not really "teleportation".
south lake
Even if it's not entirely FTL (I doubt we have meters that can even measure it yet), it's still bound to be pretty damn close
finite vine
Even if it's not entirely FTL (I doubt we have meters that can even measure it y...
Yea, but its not FTL travel.
Its as close as using a laser to transfer information. QE's speed is at the speed of light. It depends on how fast you can measure the particles in the system. And the fastest way to measure the particle is with a light based measurement system. Ex, a laser.
solar nova
The important thing is that, while you can know the spin of the other entangled particle when you measure your particle, you can't choose the spin, which prevents you from transmitting information.
Rather than being a bit that is related to another bit, it's a coin flip that is related to another coin flip.
finite vine
Google the Alcubierre warp drive.
Its a ftl drive that is kinda within the realm of possibility
rocky wraith
Rather than being a bit that is related to another bit, it's a coin flip that is...
But where knowing the first coinflip tells you what the other is going to be
devout geyser
yeah but you have to move the particle to the new destination anyways
that's not faster than light
south lake
That's.. not what Quantum Entanglement is. You're not moving the particles to different locations. You're viewing the information of one particle remotely using another particle as the tether. And that's massively oversimplifying it.
And it's not literally faster than light, yes, but it's still at the speed of light, which is still approximately 299 million metres per second (approx. 300,000 km/s or 186,000 mi/s) - assuming vacuum conditions, of course.
Too much variability to account for atmospheric speed.
lilac spear
The way I saw it explained was you have two dice, and you know that they need to add up to 7. You send them far away, and you roll your die, and get a 5, so you KNOW, that when the other person gets theirs, they will get a 2. Or vice versa.
Obviously, also a gross simplification, but while seperating the two die to arbitrarily large distances is a neat achievement, it's a high-tech party trick. No real information can be sent this way.
south lake
I think what folks are getting at though is that it could lead to a way to send information VIA quantum entanglement, now that it's been officially knocked off the "Science Fiction" list
The prospect of which is what has me excited
lilac spear
I mean, quantum Computing is something that we figured was theoretically possible but practically useless, and that's been demonstrated false, so who knows.
But we're going to need to get hella creative with it, cause our current implementation is like trying to build a calculator with a toggle-switch.
south lake
Exactly. Just as nothing is existent or otherwise until definitively proven one way or another, nothing is useless in much the same way
south lake
But we're going to need to get hella creative with it, cause our current impleme...
I mean, that's kinda the point of science to begin with, after all!
lilac spear
true dat
south lake
A lot of the shit we have nowadays we wouldn't if people didn't get creative with it.
Or - in some cases - accidentally trip over it
Maybe literally lol
eternal talon
why do i keep seeing notifications in this channel yet there are no new messages?
chrome geyser
so i just got the game and was wondering alot abt the story
so how are the creatures made?
is it like nova crawlers from black ops 1?
solar nova
Sleepers seem to be formed out of a generic "flesh," seemingly spontaneously, although they might also form from dead bodies. We're not sure what in specific forms and pilots sleepers, but we know there is a virus (NAM-V) that lives in symbiosis with an unnamed parasite. One of them is probably the culprit.
They also seem to live in a colony structure of some kind, with individuals fulfilling different roles and doing different jobs for the sake of a greater collective.
chrome geyser
so as prisoners after we complete all the floors and all the tasks do we get set free?
or whats the world like outside, is the virus just in the prison?
solar nova
The info we have suggests that the virus has reached the surface and that humanity is largely on its last legs. However, there are no sleepers on the surface to our knowledge (which might imply that the parasite is responsible for sleepers and the "flesh" we see).
Prisoners are never released intentionally. We're being kept captive by a digital intelligence known as BIOCOM (and a specific version of BIOCOM called by "WRDN"), and it is autonomously attempting to establish control over the Complex in pursuit of some unknown goal or set of goals.
chrome geyser
this game is really interesting
solar nova
We are, effectively, the Warden's body, and we are used to complete various tasks on its behalf.
It do be pretty neat.
subtle verge
IIRC the calculation from the State of Truth log that we were given was something along the lines of 27% of the US population were deceased within two years; I could be fudging that number a bit, it's been a couple of weeks since I did the math.
chrome geyser
how did the virus start?
real pewter
when we start to travel through dimension
south lake
Uh, no?
south lake
#gtfo-lore message Both of you should read the file in this post.
It's a lore primer, it'll tell you everything you need to know.
Or most everything, at least.
Alternatively, check the pins if you don't trust the link. It's in there too.
subtle verge
how did the virus start?
TL;DR - The virus was brought through parasites that have lived inside of the meteor that wiped the dinosaurs 165 million years ago (the leftovers of the meteor known in-game universe as The Egg). Exactly where its origins are from, we can't really say for sure. The virus & parasite share a symbiotic relationship: the parasite is unaffected by age and is a free ride for the virus to spread. SMC cracked through the meteor, thus unleashing the parasites, and by proxy, the virus.
eternal talon
https://discord.com/channels/408196129470152705/585062984619917342/9903118920084...
Aaaay, my hero. Liking the doc to newbies while I was offline
south lake
Don't start reading too much into that.
eternal talon
Wdym
eternal talon
IIRC the calculation from the State of Truth log that we were given was somethin...
Yepperu, math was 110% of humanity dead by the end of 2059
eternal talon
Sleepers seem to be formed out of a generic "flesh," seemingly spontaneously, al...
Wdym "flesh"
Charger biomass?
solar nova
Wdym "flesh"
Ceiling flesh, spitters, respawn sacks, and sleepers having this general fleshiness to them with all of the cysts within.
eternal talon
Charger biomass is specific to the chargers and is seemingly related exclusively to those forms as it appears nowhere else,
Spitters are... weird, to say the least, but they don't seem to be standard forms like infected humans
solar nova
R4C2 has two instances of ceiling flesh where chargers aren't, only appearing in a single zone on that map.
eternal talon
Respawn sacks are probably most similar to how the mother works and it's wall sacks if they are not the same thing in different stages
And sleepers are fleshy because they are flesh. They were humans, I don't know what you'd expect on that one
solar nova
And sleepers are fleshy because they are flesh. They were humans, I don't know w...
For respawn sacks and babies, they weren't ever humans it seems, they appear to spontaneously generate.
eternal talon
R4C2 has two instances of ceiling flesh where chargers aren't, only appearing in...
I didn't play r4, I don't know the significance of this nor have I investigated this map tile for info
eternal talon
For respawn sacks and babies, they weren't ever humans it seems, they appear to ...
Babies come from mothers, which clearly were two humans fused
solar nova
Spontaneous formation in general seems more consistent than zombification, although zombification isn't unlikely.
eternal talon
Babies are just.. as creepy as it sounds, infected and grown human fetuses gestated in bulk by the mother
It's not like it comes from nothing
solar nova
Again, sleepers seem more-so to be mimics than proper zombies.
solar nova
It's not like it comes from nothing
That is what I mean by spontaneous. There isn't an existing human that is being transformed.
eternal talon
C'mon. 90% of the sleepers in the complex outside of those fringe examples are just infected people
You find corpses everywhere that are partially mutated, even
With the cracking skull, Whitening of the skin, and whatnot
solar nova
Especially with the idea that the snatcher eats bodies.
It seems more like bodies are converted into flesh than the bodies being used wholesale.
eternal talon
That doesn't make any sense at all
solar nova
Also, it's pretty non-fringe when we have multiple instances of independent globs of flesh, even very early on, and two instances of sleepers being spawned by other means.
eternal talon
Why mimic the human shape then if you are going through all that effort to avoid converting corpses which we know they can do with the floaters
eternal talon
Also, it's pretty non-fringe when we have multiple instances of independent glob...
Source
Mothers are the outlier
Not the standard
solar nova
We were literally just talking about ceiling flesh, spitters, respawn sacks...
eternal talon
This isn't even up for discussion, we know this a dozen times over
solar nova
Mothers do not seem to be the outlier.
solar nova
You don't know that at all.
eternal talon
Yes we do
solar nova
Nope.
solar nova
Especially if birthers are filling large areas w/ cocoons.
eternal talon
They are not the primary. I can't belive you even consider that
Explain to me then how the outbreak started
Because your idea falls apart instantly
eternal talon
Not to mention, again, the converted corpses
-partially
Not the primary = an outlier
How is that not being able to read
solar nova
Not the primary = an outlier
That's not entailed whatsoever.
eternal talon
Entailed in what!?
solar nova
From my perspective, it seems like some corpses are eaten or used as sources for producing sleepers, while sleepers also propagate through other means if they have space (from other sleepers, from flesh that latches onto surfaces, etc.).
eternal talon
Wdym "flesh that latches onto surfaces"
solar nova
One of these is lower investment, and more accessible. The other is higher investment, but is more reliable for producing sleepers.
solar nova
Wdym "flesh that latches onto surfaces"
What do you think.
eternal talon
I have no fucking idea
Generally speaking cocoons don't attatch themselves
And you keep saying "flesh" in quotes
solar nova
Yes, because it's the flesh specific to sleepers, not just any flesh-like biomass.
eternal talon
WHAT FLESH THAT IS SPECIFIC TO SLEEPERS
You need to be more specific
I can't get through your vagueness
eternal talon
If it's so obvious then why can't you explain it simply?
solar nova
Ceiling flesh, since R1, spitters, since R2, respawn sacks, since R5.
eternal talon
Charger biomass, is exclusive to levels and environments with chargers.
solar nova
Having flesh that doesn't form into a sleeper seems pretty common.
eternal talon
Wall tumors are.. weird
Respawn rooms also I don't think are canon
I remember warden or somebody posting about that
solar nova
Cool, I guess we can just pretend anything in-game is non-canon according to our whims.
eternal talon
Why must you be this stubborn
solar nova
Because your position doesn't make any sense.
eternal talon
@past matrix do you have a source for respawn rooms not being cannon
eternal talon
Because your position doesn't make any sense.
You are literally being the most nondescript person on the planet
solar nova
We have at least three instances of fleshy formations seemingly related to sleepers in-game, and your goto position is "that doesn't mean anything at all."
eternal talon
You keep saying "flesh" in reference to 3 COMPLETELY different things
solar nova
It's probably pretty significant.
eternal talon
Charger biomass, is CLEARLY, not related to normal sleepers
It is ONLY found it levels and areas with chargers
solar nova
You're assuming that.
solar nova
You absolutely are.
eternal talon
Name me one fucking level
I dare you
That has biomass without chargers
ONE LEVEL
solar nova
We could allege that the flesh is important enough that it's typically well-protected, and so we'd expect a heavier sleeper, like chargers, to be seen around it.
solar nova
R4C2.
But even if I agreed with you.
That doesn't change that you're making an assumption that is unjustified.
eternal talon
You really bout to go make me watch though old vods to call you out on lies, huh?
solar nova
Chargers and ceiling flesh are associated != ceiling flesh is unrelated to sleepers in general.
eternal talon
It is unrelated
solar nova
You don't know that.
eternal talon
Because there is zero fucking levels that have it without chargers
solar nova
You've assumed it w/out much good reason.
solar nova
Because there is zero fucking levels that have it without chargers
Completely irrelevant.
eternal talon
How is that irrelevant
eternal talon
That is literally as relevant as you can be
It is proof in and of itself
You are going in circles
solar nova
It is proof in and of itself
It's not.
eternal talon
Not a single level has the biomass and is without chargers
solar nova
Believe it or not, Frostty, you do actually have to go out of your way to argue for your positions.
eternal talon
It is only on charger levels
eternal talon
Believe it or not, Frostty, you do actually have to go out of your way to argue ...
What the hell are you saying
solar nova
We could allege that the flesh is important enough that it's typically well-prot...
I even give you a possible explanation for why it wouldn't hold that the flesh is unrelated to sleepers in general.
In-fact, chargers seem to be pretty clearly related to sleepers in general.
solar nova
They fight alongside them, hibernate alongside them, have been seen controlling areas w/ other variants like birthers.
eternal talon
Same as scouts, giants, hybrids, and anything else
You can't trick me with word play
Chargers and the biomass are only ever seen together. You will not find a level with biomass and no chargers
This is a FUNDAMENTAL TRUTH
You can't pick and choose the lore
solar nova
Right, so surely it's not that crazy to suggest that the ceiling flesh, being heavily associated with chargers, might still have some relevance to sleepers in general. It'd be more than a bit weird if it had nothing to do with sleepers at all, just this one specific type of them.
eternal talon
Right, so surely it's not that crazy to suggest that the ceiling flesh, being he...
That's not what I said
It is related to the chargers directly
What the fuck they do with it isn't my concern
solar nova
Charger biomass, is CLEARLY, not related to normal sleepers
eternal talon
Normal sleepers can't make that shit
There ya go
You probably can't make a toaster but you can use one
solar nova
Why believe that chargers are making the flesh and not the other way around?
eternal talon
It's the same principle
solar nova
They might even be independent in terms of their respective formations.
eternal talon
Why believe that chargers are *making* the flesh and not the other way around?
Yes because for the 200th time, there are no levels with the flesh and no chargers
solar nova
Yes because for the 200th time, there are no levels with the flesh and no charge...
and for the 200th time, that doesn't actually tell us anything about why they're associated.
eternal talon
You are impossible to reason with
solar nova
Because you are completely unreasonable.
eternal talon
I disagree completely
You keep saying the same thing over and over again as if your statement is the only thing true
I have presented evidence
You've given none
solar nova
You're projecting.
south lake
Frostty, would you quit trying to scream someone down every time they disagree with you? It's childish as hell.
eternal talon
The only thing you did do is mention a level that you are gonna make me go dig through for video footage
eternal talon
Frostty, would you *quit* trying to scream someone down every time they disagree...
I didn't start this war, plunged skyrim into chaos
south lake
No one's making you do shit, except yourself
solar nova
Take this proposition:
- The flesh is important enough that it's typically well-protected, and so we'd expect a heavier sleeper, like chargers, to be seen around it.
Why is this not a viable explanation for why chargers and the ceiling flesh are associated with each other?
eternal talon
Take this proposition:
- The flesh is important enough that it's typically well-...
Because Ray, why is it then not seen in levels without chargers, like r6c3 for example with 4 bloody tanks
Which are far bigger and stronger than chargers
If it needed defending
solar nova
Right, so we might say that it's wouldn't be seen w/out chargers because then it would be poorly defended. Chargers, tanks, and such can be seen w/out it because their sole purpose probably isn't to defend the ceiling flesh, they can probably also be used to expand territory or defend important areas in the complex.
eternal talon
What is there in it to defend anyway?
In e1 they just smash right through it with hordes
solar nova
They don't ever smash it down, that tile just has a door that's hidden behind the flesh.
eternal talon
In the destination bit and the end with the reactor they breach through the flesh as a spawnpoint
solar nova
It could be something that spawns more sleepers, it could be a form of storage for food and such, it could be a whole lot of things.
eternal talon
They tear it open and go through
solar nova
Yep. It is always in-tact, it's meant to keep players out of their spawn point.
eternal talon
You can run into it all day in destination and can't go through
eternal talon
Yep. It is always in-tact, it's meant to keep players out of their spawn point.
How do they get through it then if its a solid wall
Without opening or breaking it
That makes no fucking sense, less than the tumors even
eternal talon
When the wave starts, there is a big hole ripped into it when you look at it
It's like a black void
eternal talon
I really don't have the time to go run e1 again just to get a picture of the wall during waves
solar nova
I'm pretty sure it has a collision setting that lets enemies path through it while being a solid wall for players, similar to how flyers can pass through invisible walls.
eternal talon
I'm pretty sure it has a collision setting that lets enemies path through it whi...
That is.. completely redicuous wtf
solar nova
?
eternal talon
Fliers bugging through terrain is clearly not a canon thing
But how the fuck could they get through the meat wall
And not us
solar nova
Terrain is, not, in-fact, invisible.
eternal talon
We are made of the same stuff
solar nova
You cannot jump off of the lab reactor bridge.
eternal talon
Yeah?
solar nova
However, flyers can pass through that barrier as if it does not exist.
eternal talon
Yeah?
solar nova
The flesh wall probably works the same way.
eternal talon
I'm not talking about gameplay
I'm talking about canonically
How the fuck
Can they noclip
Through the meat walls in e1
solar nova
Probably has some mechanism to shuffle objects through itself.
or it's like a viscous liquid on the inside and it lets things pass through the membrane.
eternal talon
What the fuck is it doing on the ceiling everywhere then
E1 was the first time we saw it on walls
Or as walls, I guess
eternal talon
That makes sense for some of the charger biomasses
But others, like the very first room in e1, is covering one of the holes to the surface
solar nova
It fills a pit in R4C3.
eternal talon
I never played r4. I'm not going to get these references
I'm not even going to cover the tumors because they are just.. so fucking weird
Mother biomass and respawn room shit could probably be the same thing
Because I don't know what else it'd be for
It's only in rooms with mothers nearby
And they also have a fuckton of babies
But normal respawn rooms dont
solar nova
Normal respawn rooms are also not typically associated with birthers. Most of the times birthers are nearby, it seems like coincidence. They're not close in space or association in the same way that cocoons are a direct signal that there is a mother nearby.
eternal talon
Why the two different cocoons then
Unless you mean that the mother ones turn into spitters
And get left behind when the mother moves
Because those are the only ones we've seen to not really do anything
solar nova
I just think they're independent. I think birther cocoons are distinct and separate from other examples of flesh on walls/ceilings.
eternal talon
They are just kinda set-dressing
What the fuck even was our arguement
I don't remember
solar nova
About what relation dead people have to sleepers being created.
eternal talon
The corpses we see clearly show signs of early mutation, though not finished
And those are the only corpses we see
Also, d2 data room thing has 12 severed heads in it
And no bodies
solar nova
It looks more to me like something is forming inside of them and bulging out. We also know for sure that sleepers can be formed independent of corpses, so I don't think it's that much of a stretch that sleepers are more analogous to maggots than zombies.
eternal talon
It looks more to me like something is forming inside of them and bulging out. W...
I wouldn't say so, not at all
solar nova
We also know the Snatcher seems to "eat" corpses, which is probably an alternative to creating a sleeper from one directly.
eternal talon
The early stages were almost entirely it taking over hosts
The mothers and stuff came later when it established a big horde
solar nova
That's NAM-V, and the logs we have suggest that NAM-V doesn't actually create any sleepers.
eternal talon
I know namv doesn't make sleepers
I didn't say that
I'm talking about when the parasite got into the facility
Namv only kills
solar nova
Okay, but why would we describe what the parasite is doing as zombification as opposed to acting as a maggot that eats and then forms a sleeper from a dead body?
More clearly, why is it not analogous to a maggot?
eternal talon
More clearly, why is it not analogous to a maggot?
Maggots don't take control over their hosts
solar nova
Maggots don't take control over their hosts
Well it doesn't have to.
eternal talon
Okay, but why would we describe what the parasite is doing as zombification as o...
There are bodies everywhere over all previous rundowns, if they could convert dead, would seem like a major waste
solar nova
It eats a body, in which is constructs a sleeper that it will pilot.
eternal talon
It eats a body, in which is constructs a sleeper that it will pilot.
Biggest issue i have with this is the new e1 log explaining namv
Namv keeps the parasite alive, but if the host is dead then how is the parasite going to to keep nam-v alive to find another person to infect?
Viruses need living hosts or they die out
As all have through all of human history
solar nova
I don't see where you're pulling the idea that the parasite can't survive if it operates like a maggot.
eternal talon
If they are symbiotic, the "keeping the parasite alive" wouldn't make sense if the virus just dies out, then there goes the immunity
eternal talon
I don't see where you're pulling the idea that the parasite can't survive if it ...
I don't know where your getting the idea of maggots from
It's weird
solar nova
Not really?
It's just a mechanism to convert dead bodies into sleepers w/out zombifying them (so, it forms a body independent of the corpse itself)
eternal talon
Maggots aren't parasites. Maggots are the larval forms of flies. They don't generally stay in their hosts
The parasite stays in a host and controls it
solar nova
Some larvae, including maggots, are parasitic.
So I'm suggesting that the parasite is analogous to those.
eternal talon
Not permanently
solar nova
Right, but hence sleepers.
eternal talon
That is the fundamental difference though
solar nova
I'm saying that the sleeper might be analogous to an adult parasite.
eternal talon
It's more than one parasite per host afik
The hazmat log describes many trying to get into one suit
solar nova
It's talking about parasites in general penetrating their hazmat gear in general, not a multitude of parasites penetrating one hazmat suit.
eternal talon
In the above bit in that log, I was just reading it, it's talking about people still alive beginning to display sleeper behavior
They still die yes, but to be fair we find hundreds of corpses in similar state
But yeah, if it converts the dead specifically, what's the deal with all the thousands of corpses
That were partially converted and gave up on
solar nova
Hard to say. Might be unsuitable hosts, or there was a surplus of food, or the bodies are recent enough that the larvae hasn't had time to pupate (or some analogous action).
eternal talon
Hard to say. Might be unsuitable hosts, or there was a surplus of food, or the ...
It's been way too long for it to be recent
solar nova
And it's entirely possible that the parasite needs a living host, or at least needs to start in a living host.
solar nova
It's been way too long for it to be recent
As far as we know, they're dead KSOs.
Especially since we now know that some of the text we get on expeditions is from KSOs (see A1 and D2 this rundown).
eternal talon
As far as we know, they're dead KSOs.
Not all could be, corpses in zones the ksos couldn't get to for example, in the vault that is nothing but heads
Which, what the fuck
All sleepers have heads
Where did the bodies go
solar nova
My assumption is eaten by a snatcher, but no idea.
eternal talon
Especially since we now know that some of the text we get on expeditions is from...
Some corpses have different clothes, KSO stuff is standardized
Low quality, but we all have the same set of gear to choose from
solar nova
Some corpses have different clothes, KSO stuff is standardized
Wym? We have cosmetics, and even before then everyone was wearing different stuff.
eternal talon
Also a surprising amount of them have no shoes for some reason, just bare feet
eternal talon
Wym? We have cosmetics, and even before then everyone was wearing different stu...
Cosmetics are no way cannon, look at the prosthetics for an instant example of that
Really only the original 4 looks are
solar nova
And the original 4 are different. Presumably different prisoners will wear different things.
eternal talon
How many corpses total did we run across prior to r5
If that was all ksos, that would be a stretch imo
24k of the 32k were in KDS DEEP
eternal talon
That's only the parts of the facility we go to
solar nova
Right, but presumably the Warden has fairly narrow interests. Prisoner teams will not be sent into every nook and cranny.
eternal talon
Well, we don't know really. After r5, it could be from the reserve or not
Since most other places haven't been on lockdown
And the ksos that died before would surely be in the thousands, no?
Protecting SMC. Drills and Hammerstein expeditions
Just saying, the chances of not a single one being a scientist is slim
solar nova
Sure, but again, I'm fine w/ zombification, or a maggot that requires a living host to get started.
I just don't think it's clear cut.
eternal talon
I'd say it's a 70/30 (maybe a close 60/40)but that's fair
Sometimes I hate that the game doesn't just say stuff
It's always with the vagueness
Part of the reason why GTFOLFD only covers pre-apocalypse and dated logs, that stuff is actually given as fact
solar nova
I prefer it, means there's a larger space of possibilities until they decide they want to narrow something.
solar nova
Ambiguity? Yes.
eternal talon
I prefer it, means there's a larger space of possibilities until they decide the...
There are two viewpoints. The ones that find a plot hole that Is never answered and the ones that don't. It's then that answering anything at all in lore becomes hard
Take the allens for example, we know both so little and so much about them at the same time
Yet I couldn't say more than a couple sentences of what we actually know as fact
You get to a point where the lore is so broad yet so undescriptive that you can't really say much at all on any given thing
It's like a bullet list, or a references page with missing hyperlinks
Of course you can say what is most likely, but in the end it is all theory, and one log down the line makes you rework everything you had previously known
For people that keep up with the Game, that is fine
But for those that don't, it's like every rundown or so coming back to a entirely new story
south lake
God you two are still going at it? Go to bed you nerds
eternal talon
God you two are still going at it? Go to bed you nerds
We're not fighting now just chatting
south lake
Still
eternal talon
It's only 2:41am
south lake
south lake
Bed bonk for both of you
solar nova
I'll probably be awake for another 3 hours regardless.
south lake
You can't nerd over lore effectively if you're exhausted
past matrix
<@964029910677065778> do you have a source for respawn rooms not being cannon
uhhh id imagine they are canon
hot burrow
Tf?
past matrix
obviously there's a difference between gameplay cocoons and then what cocoons are supposed to be, but they've been mentioned in warden intel before
finite vine
yea I don't really see why they wouldn't be cannon.
past matrix
also yeah there have been expeditions without chargers that don't have the flesh biomass before
I feel like cocoons spitting out sleepers arent too unrealistic considering it seems like there's an implication that there are huge flesh structures that can teleport things through dimensions
eternal talon
I feel like cocoons spitting out sleepers arent too unrealistic considering it s...
what makes you say that? from everything we have seen, the black crystals are required for anything to go through dimensions
eternal talon
uhhh id imagine they are canon
i swear to god i remember somebody saying it. it was a long time ago, before 6.5 came out, even
finite vine
I feel like cocoons spitting out sleepers arent too unrealistic considering it s...
are you talking about the biomass in e1?
the chargers could just be living/ growing inside of the biomass, they necessarily don't have to teleport through dimensions.
eternal talon
its literally just a big mass of tentacles
i dont see how anything the parasite would have access to allow it to teleport between dimensions. case in point is the floater, which can only teleport locally, despite even having the crystals in it.
(not to mention the immortal using an Insight warp gate in e1)
past matrix
what makes you say that? from everything we have seen, the black crystals are re...
the immortal coming through the biomass then coming back with us
there's also how the fliers and enemies come out of a biomass in the reactor
it also explains why there's so many chargers and shit in the area whereas when we last saw it, there wasn't any whatsoever (and the biomass is newly there)
i also find it weird how the flyers come through the biomass despite it already being made clear they can just teleport to us
hell the tile where you defend from already should support them spawning in the same room you're in and shit considering that's what happened in R6D1
harsh saffron
Maybe its just more convenient, teleporting could use energy whereas flying through a doorway doesn't. So if they have the option, why not use it?
past matrix
that would mean there's a ton of flyers and sleepers right next to the reactor
like a fuckton
which we've never really seen a flyer just chilling around the complex; hell the only flying enemy we see vibing is just the kraken in R6C1
harsh saffron
tbf fliers not sleeping is probably just a gameplay thing because they would either lay around on the floor or be potentially out of reach to stealth ^^
past matrix
that's true but it still doesnt explain why in every time we encounter flyers not on Destination, they always seemingly teleport in except for the reactor in E1 that conveniently has a biomass wall covering enemy spawns
past matrix
the immortal coming through the biomass then coming back with us
oh yea to add onto this, when we get teleported both times, the tank isnt with us, which gives me the impression we essentially leave it behind. First teleport could be explained by it canonically being far from the survivors when the collapse happens and they get teleported, but then the second one is odd
especially considering its not seen until the very end
harsh saffron
Idk every time I see the biomass walls now, I'm thinking of Stranger Things.
eternal talon
the immortal coming through the biomass then coming back with us
that assumes there is only one immortal
which has the exact same with the pMother. we found many more later on
eternal talon
there's also how the fliers and enemies come out of a biomass in the reactor
no it doesn't, fliers have been in the facility since r6b1
eternal talon
it also explains why there's so many chargers and shit in the area whereas when ...
we've never been to this place before.
eternal talon
i also find it weird how the flyers come through the biomass despite it already ...
same reason they fly through open doors in every level
past matrix
that assumes there is only one immortal
so we get chased by an immortal then teleport. When we get on Destination, there's a second immortal there and when we teleport back the immortal who was chasing us is now gone and then at the end there's a third immortal there aswell
past matrix
no it doesn't, fliers have been in the facility since r6b1
they've been in the facility but in R7 they've only been teleporting in lol
eternal talon
so we get chased by an immortal then teleport. When we get on Destination, there...
the 3rd one could be a different one, or the same one as on destination, since it comes through a freaking warp gate
past matrix
we've never been to this place before.
is it not the same place from R6b1? pretty sure you've mentioned that before
eternal talon
is it not the same place from R6b1? pretty sure you've mentioned that before
i know?
e1 is clearly not the same place as b1
past matrix
the 3rd one could be a different one, or the same one as on destination, since i...
so then what happens to the Immortal that was just chasing us, it just walks away?
past matrix
e1 is clearly not the same place as b1
alright well I was going off what you've said before
eternal talon
so then what happens to the Immortal that was just chasing us, it just walks awa...
they aren't that smart, blood doors prove this
they are still basic organisms individually
past matrix
it walks away and doesn't bother to look for us again
harsh saffron
I would say it's at least implied that it's just 1 Immortal
eternal talon
it walks away and doesn't bother to look for us again
also, remember. the time gap between earth and destination
85:1
past matrix
imo it just makes more sense for it to be the same immortal chasing us through, not several different ones that only appear in singular groups lmao
past matrix
so schaeffer sends us down and we disappear for days and he doesn't bother sending anyone else
eternal talon
so schaeffer sends us down and we disappear for days and he doesn't bother sendi...
as weird as it sounds, yes
because thats how it works
eternal talon
yeah
again, this is just how destination works
so ignoring literally everything else in the conversation,
the time jump wouldn't change
5 minutes on destination is 7 hours
past matrix
damn, mid writing tbh
eternal talon
and that is only if we are there for 5 minutes and speedrunning it
honestly 10-15 would be more accurate since its clearing sleeping chargers then the wave segment
which is days
so...
we just kinda gotta go with it
past matrix
either way there's no reason why it would be more than just one immortal chasing us down in the expedition
eternal talon
so yeah, the immortal more than likely would just walk away
past matrix
id honestly be surprised they even bring it back considering how poorly e1 has been received tbh
eternal talon
e1 wasn't that bad
i liked it
besides, they do what they want really. we still have the stamina system after all
harsh saffron
so yeah, the immortal more than likely would just walk away
I don't think "getting bored" is something these things are capable of ^^
past matrix
it was a pretty boring expedition with a dumb gimmick lmaoo
eternal talon
I don't think "getting bored" is something these things are capable of ^^
well yeah, but you know what i mean
it wouldn't still be chasing us when we teleport back
and it doesnt
since it isn't anywhere to be seen
and the last immortal comes from the warp gate
not from somewhere else in the complex
harsh saffron
Well the Immortal can't teleport freely so it has to find us again, right?
harsh saffron
Yeah where the Immortal comes in when you get the last code
eternal talon
I never saw one tbh
the very end. we dont use it
but the immortal teleports through on it
its in one of the locked zones
that opens with the reactor alarm
past matrix
i no longer believe the flesh walls could be used for teleporting; completely had no clue there was a warp gate in a log room lmaoo
i still don't think theres more than one immortal present in E1 though
eternal talon
since we had the 1 that was chasing us until we teleport,
then one comes from the nest on destination
the one on destination would have to be a different one, since it teleports back to attack us in a locked zone
finite vine
the immortal coming through the biomass then coming back with us
ahh good point. I forgot about that.
eternal talon
biggest question is how it managed to operate a warp gate in the first place 🤔
past matrix
maybe it just got stuck there when we teleported back
eternal talon
duck, do you remember if it had the warp fx
or if it just spawned on the pad
i never thought to check
harsh saffron
I was honestly not even looking that way, I was staring at the terminal xD
eternal talon
given it's a dead end room and bulkheads have windows, i'd think it'd have teleported
rather than just pop in where players could see it
then again.. it is 10cc
past matrix
considering we teleported into destination due to shit malfunctioning id imagine it would go:
immortal is with us when we teleport -> immortal teleports somewhere else, we teleport to Alpha whatever -> immortal attacks us on Destination but we teleport back -> immortal teleports to the warp gate and is stuck
harsh saffron
Thought its pretty straightforward:
-Immortal chases us and we disappear in front of it, forcing it to search for us
-We activate the Terminal command and the Immortal notices that and uses the biomass wall to come after us
-We finish the scan and disappear in front of it again
-We start the reactor and in the meantime the immortal got teleported into the warp gate room which is conveniently located right next to its targets; us.
eternal talon
Thought its pretty straightforward:
-Immortal chases us and we disappear in fron...
the biomass walls don't let them teleport between dimensions
even the floaters cant do that
harsh saffron
you don't know that ^^
eternal talon
you dont know that they do
eternal talon
i no longer believe the flesh walls could be used for teleporting; completely ha...
^
biggest issue is the only thing we know can teleport at all is tied to the crystals
the mwp has them, so do the floaters
the biomass doesnt
and its most commonly on ceilings
yet we've never seen it spawn enemies from above us
past matrix
how did they even get it on the ceiling in the first place
on the floor and walls make sense but
did they like climb or some shit
also i wonder how the chargers infested the r6b1 area and then put a massive biomass wall on it
eternal talon
most of them are covering the blast holes to the surface
past matrix
considering the biomass wall is much larger than they are
eternal talon
though some are just on random ceilings in zones
eternal talon
i do not think so.
c2 has floaters, giant floaters, shooters, and strikers
r6dx and bx also only has normal variants
past matrix
then is it possible that the MWP can place different things there at different times
so for example us and the chargers in e1 both teleported to the b1 area but the chargers arrived first, set all their shit up, etc then we arrived later
eternal talon
then is it possible that the MWP can place different things there at different t...
its not time travel, time just works differently. it could not set something into the future there because it would just be the now when it goes back to our time afik
eternal talon
so for example us and the chargers in e1 both teleported to the b1 area but the ...
that would be possible, but that highly depends on the time
the time scale is a consistant 85:1 according to stokes
and if they had the foresight to use the teleporter to knwot o do that
past matrix
hmmm
yeah cause i cant think of any reason the chargers would have been there
cause they definitely werent there before lmao
eternal talon
they are still just parasites after all in terms of smarts, i don't know that they would have the knowledge to do that
since its a hive, not a central intelligence, they would have to individually decide that
past matrix
im talking about the chargers during the containment in e1
past matrix
the containment scan
past matrix
the one where you enter in a terminal command and chargers are supposed to come at you from all directions
eternal talon
they only come from one way
they come from the left
the right way is always completely empty, my team always camps there
past matrix
chargers are supposed to
surprised they havent fixed it yet tbh
there's a matter wave malfunction happening so isnt it possible where they're teleported before us then we're teleported after
which explains why there's chargers in a previously charger-less area
eternal talon
there's a matter wave malfunction happening so isnt it possible where they're te...
no because they will continue to attack you even while you teleport
the waves dont stop until you teleport
they would at minimum arrive after you or at the same time
giving no time to grow that biomass unless it was already there
like how there are sleepers in destination in other levels
past matrix
yeah i know, im just trying to give an explanation on why there's biomass there when a few months ago there wasn't
eternal talon
yeah i know, im just trying to give an explanation on why there's biomass there ...
months = hundreds of years
with all the infected humans on destination,
it wouldnt surprise me its just some chargers that decided to nest there
past matrix
i thought 1 second on destination was 85 on earth or something
eternal talon
i thought 1 second on destination was 85 on earth or something
other way around
bishop was on destination for 2 years their time, but was only away for a week to project insight on earth
past matrix
5 minutes on destination is 7 hours
oh because you said this
so i was a bit confused
eternal talon
7 hours our time
i just plugged into google 5 minutes to seconds then multiplied by 85
the longer the time gap the more extreme it gets
past matrix
so...
1 second on earth is 85 seconds on destination
but 85 seconds on earth is 1 second on destination?
eternal talon
1 year our time is probably millions of years on destination
past matrix
if its 1:85 then it shouldn't be where 5 minutes on destination is 7 hours our time
eternal talon
so...
1 second on earth is 85 seconds on destination
but 85 seconds on earth is ...
only the first line
past matrix
oh wait I get what you're saying
eternal talon
if you leave earth at 3:00PM for 5 minutes, it will be 10:00PM when you return
earth time doesn't change, you are just skipping relative to where you are
its hard to explain
past matrix
ok so if im understanding this right then
if i go to destination at 12PM and its for like a minute, then when I get back onto Earth it would be 1:30PM or so
eternal talon
if i go to destination at 12PM and its for like a minute, then when I get back o...
yes
the time gap gets longer the longer you stay
past matrix
if I get teleported at 1PM earth time to Destination, then stay there for five minutes, then when I get on earth it will be 8PM earth time
eternal talon
if i go to destination at 12PM and its for like a minute, then when I get back o...
you mean am, right?
eternal talon
if I get teleported at 1PM earth time to Destination, then stay there for five m...
correct
past matrix
you mean am, right?
no? I mean PM
past matrix
so then if it works like that how is time slower on Destination than on Earth
eternal talon
so then if it works like that how is time slower on Destination than on Earth
it isnt slower, its faster on destination
it is faster by a magnitude of 85:1
past matrix
bishop was on destination for 2 years their time, but was only away for a week t...
so bishop was on Destination for 2 years and when he came back only a week passed on earth
eternal talon
so bishop was on Destination for 2 years and when he came back only a week passe...
yes.
past matrix
yeah i know, im just trying to give an explanation on why there's biomass there ...
so then what im saying makes even more sense
a few months ago when we teleported onto Destination, there was no biomass in that area
eternal talon
mhm
past matrix
wait im still confused, what
eternal talon
it is incredibly complicated, i am also kind of confused
past matrix
bishop couldn't have been on destination for 2 years but on earth only a week went by
eternal talon
stokes said it was at least a week
past matrix
it would have been the other way around
eternal talon
before bishop came back
so it would have to have been, wouldn't it?
it wouldn't make sense otherwise
because then his time he would only be there for a few minutes, if that.
at least after june 9 bishop returns to earth alone (since stokes still doesnt know what happened to ef01 and thinks they all died) https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?v=f8d9917211a143d790dcac03396aac9e&p=6bf8c73545114da2a4f77d33e5af99a5
past matrix
Bishop spent 2 years on destination but when he came back, at least a week passed on earth.
If Bishop spent 5 minutes on destination, when he comes back, 7 hours would have passed on earth
eternal talon
Bishop spent 2 years on destination but when he came back, at least a week passe...
we know it was at LEAST a week he was gone
since stokes between these two logs still doesn't know what happened
eternal talon
absolutely
it is as @burnt wren said
dont fuck with time travel
yet here we are
past matrix
maybe its where its just different perceptions of time from people
like in the cod zombies storyline when people travel to another dimension, they have varying amounts of time perception
one person may go in another dimension for a week on earth time but in the other dimension it was months
another may go into another dimension for a year earth time but in the other dimension it was days
eternal talon
so in e1, we do shit, we teleport. we are gone for say 10 minutes, thats like a day.
we teleport back, the immortal is gone
we go do main,
an immortal comes through teleporter
how long would that immortal have been waiting
to only come through when we activate the doors/reactor
past matrix
wait wait wait wait wait
stokes mentions
He could have teleported to another dimension then back to our own where a second superposition on the same wave occurred. He could be in tomorrow, or 1000 years in the past.
eternal talon
stokes mentions
> He could have teleported to another dimension then back to our...
?
she says it is exactly 85:1 though
i think by that, she means a world line where time is backwards, or that it would go to that
not specifically that this one is that way
since by this point nobody else has been to destination
only ef01
past matrix
so could the chargers in e1 not just teleport with us but they're sent in the past
eternal talon
no, because thats not hour destination works
past matrix
also she says that durant's time is running faster than earth time
eternal talon
destination is one specific world line
yeah
on destination's world line
since the mwp converts our matter waves to be able to be in that world line instead
Beanz talked about this in so much detail and i'm making it seem dumb
@rocky wraith
rocky wraith
<@328997209045729281>
mlem
eternal talon
esplain mwp
past matrix
if its running faster than our time then wouldn't that mean even if years passed on destination, it wouldn't matter and still be equivalent to like weeks on earth
eternal talon
if its running faster than our time then wouldn't that mean even if years passed...
yeah? i think so
it is only destination's world line that is faster
it doesn't bleed over into ours with the difference in time
rocky wraith
esplain mwp
mwp uses the superposition coordinates on the data cubes to transfer our matter over to the new superposition in the correct quantum frequency
eternal talon
in about 40x more detail
past matrix
months = hundreds of years
so going back to this conversation, it would still be months that they had to actually build the biomass
eternal talon
we are talking about basics with the difference between the world lines
rocky wraith
so going back to this conversation, it would still be months that they had to ac...
years
EF-01 happened a long time back
eternal talon
between.. bx? i think, is the first time we see sleepers on destination
eternal talon
EF-01 happened a long time back
i can tell you EXACT time
ef01 was june 5 of 2055
let me go to wrdn twitter
past matrix
EF-01 happened a long time back
we're not talking about EF-01 in the original conversation
we're talking about the difference between R6B1 and R7E1
rocky wraith
we're talking about the difference between R6B1 and R7E1
yeah
past matrix
so in their time they would have had years but since time moves faster they would have had months earth time
rocky wraith
My main question with that is, why didn't it create the biomass there by the time we arrived there in B1?
past matrix
mine is how the chargers got there; like did they just stumble across the cave and think it was a good area to build one in at one point between expeditions
rocky wraith
Clearly something must have initiated the biomass that we must have caused in B1
rocky wraith
mine is how the chargers got there; like did they just stumble across the cave a...
I think it was because of our squad
eternal talon
yeah i did this math
rocky wraith
dirt in our boots or something dragged that strain of virus there
rocky wraith
The Destination variants prefer mobility and nomadic style of survival. Earth variant prefers sedentary survival strategies.
past matrix
what is ef01 again, I thought it was just the one exploration team
eternal talon
what is ef01 again, I thought it was just the one exploration team
first expedition to destination by humanity
it was an exploration team, yes
spare holly
so, question, with Influx Protocol, are there just a bunch of KDS people on the levels we already cleared now? or in upper levels atleast, or are they still dormant in HSU's just... ready to be called?
eternal talon
so, question, with Influx Protocol, are there just a bunch of KDS people on the ...
the ladder
we aren't people per se, we are tools. when the warden doesn't need us, it puts us back in stasis
and that would likely go for the rest of it's KSO teams
spare holly
I see thankie, and do we know what the warden's endgoal is atm? or current goal i suppose with making mimics?
burnt wren
I see thankie, and do we know what the warden's endgoal is atm? or current goal ...
No end goal in sight so far, but yes - last we know Warden is attempting to create artificial units that will be invisible to sleepers. Last unit was invisible to everything but the scouts (which didn't really matter, because the hordes that come still can't find what the scout is mad about). Warden wasn't satisfied with that, however, and wanted to make further improvements, but Schaeffer got to it first.
sweet harbor
the ladder
*latter
burnt wren
This rundown we were trying to make another unit again, until we got sidetracked by Shaffer's shenanigans.