gtfo-lore

[rocky wraith]

The mass extends 2,215 (+/- 372m) meters from apex
to nadir. Width estimate is 1,247 meters (+/- 208m). As suspected, it is
largely made up of the newly discovered Cretasium 77a material, and
surrounded by a thin membrane of iridium.

very big Egg

[celest pagoda]

I remember I made a very basic size comparison; ill try to find it ignore this, see beanz's image

[rocky wraith]

No wonder the dinosaurs were obliterated

[celest pagoda]

This may not be 100% accurate, but its a very rough display of the absolute size of this thing

[rocky wraith]

2 pixels to 2000 pixels

here's what I came to

you can barely see the 2 pixels at the bottom

off course the top is cut off because trying to zoom out on ms paint means that those 2 pixels vanish

[celest pagoda]

ok yeah I was WAY off

[eternal talon]

I get so happy when I see people talk about the allens. Anyways, what's up?

[celest pagoda]

trying to visualize that absolute size of the fossil/egg/structure

[eternal talon]

Oh it's fucking huuuge

Though what it actually is, and is in it is still a mystery

We know corridors and stuff, and the explosion is likely that of a reactor or something,

But the overall structure remains an intriguing mystery

Think about allen cryo-decks, science rooms, all kinds of crazy sci-fi stuff wayy too advanced for anyone to understand

for all we know something like an artifact might be something as simple as a toaster to them

[celest pagoda]

and until we know more, that could be the case. The fossil is such an interesting piece of the lore. So many possibilities.

[dense obsidian]

Humanitys veen whiped out correct?

Or are there still survivors

[south lake]

IIRC it's assumed whatever survivors there are, are either KSOs, stuck in the Project Legion HSUs (not KSOs but are being used as such by WRDN), or are possibly sheltering somewhere?

[agile plinth]

it's very likely that there are some survivors outside of HSUs

they could've escaped into isolation far from populated areas and weren't infected with NAM-V

but i would say it's safe to assume that the only relevant people to the situation are probably in HSUs yes

although we don't have much information if WHO still functions

[finite vine]

yea it’s possible that there are survivors outside of Garganta.

[native shuttle]

Is NAM-V the infection that turns people into Sleepers or is it seperate?

[swift oasis]

didnt check the informations of the extension of R6 but until R6 we had no clue if those are related or not, some theories say yes, others no

[dim scroll]

It's the combo parasite + NAM-V that does it

NAM-V alone kills people

[eternal talon]

Actually, revisiting the dates of old logs we can determine it factually

[swift oasis]

So the parasite comes from the same place as the Nam-V ? when mankind was quit totally infected by nam-v and died, do the mankind have the parasite as well and turned into sleepers ? I understood that Nam-V came from the Inner/the egg, but don't really understand what the parasite is/how it works/how it spreads. And when sleepers came from the complex, is it a chance that some of them were anciant mayans, hybernating for decades ?

[eternal talon]

the parasite never made it to the surface

therefor there are no sleepers on the surface

i'm not sure on the part about the mayans, that depends if they encountered the parasite or not,

and there is very little data.

as to how the sleepers work,

read this

What are Sleepers?:

Sleepers are the final product of a NAM-V - Parasite infestation. NAM-V has an extremely high infectivity rate and is presumed to have a lethality rate of 100%.
Sleepers are created by either the Parasite by itself, or by the Parasite with NAM-V present. We know due to a time differential that NAM-V by itself cannot create Sleeper infestations.
It is theorized that NAM-V's extremely high lethality rate is supported by the Parasite, keeping infected hosts alive and thus, allowing the virus to not starve itself to death.
In circumstances like those found in the meteor beneath Garganta, it would seem that once all local hosts have been converted, a population of Sleepers can hibernate for millions of years before the opportunity to spread reveals itself once more.

What are Giants? Hybrids?

Specialized variants of Sleepers are created by the Parasite to fill a niche in its hive. A great example of this would be the Scout, designed to keep watch while other Sleepers hibernate to keep a hive from being exterminated.
Another example would be the giant, created by an infected host that has a large quantity of muscle mass, this infected individual was mutated into a role more fitting by it's genetic code and purpose the Parasite needed to support the hive.
It is this reason that nearly all Shooter variants appear to be female in origin, and nearly all Strikers being male.

.
this is from the "For Dummies" doc.

https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?p=e42bda18f22a46df8d3efe49ededcfe3 @swift oasis this is the only log directly mentioning the parasites afik

[swift oasis]

Thank you @eternal talon

[eternal talon]

o7

[eternal talon]

^

^^

^^^

This is the order of events

[rocky wraith]

"Nothing can slow the decline of NAM-V and it will remain in you system until you die" can we revise this with now knowing that HSU slows or clears much of the infection

[eternal talon]

No, because that's what the log says verbatim

[rocky wraith]

As well as revising here about the sleepers being seen, as it is assumed not to be the first time considering Shafers log

[rocky wraith]

but we know it isn't true

If you are going by log at least put it in quotations so that we can say that empirically we know its false

[eternal talon]

"Medical intervention is the only thing that can slow the decline. Even if the patient does manage to survive the initial onslaught of the virus, it will remain in their system and can strike again without warning. Once you are isolated with NAM-V, you stay isolated."

I don't know what you want me to say, I can't rewrite the lore we are given

That's what it says

[rocky wraith]

exactly, medicines slow it

which is opposite to what you annotate it as

so revise the annotation

[livid grotto]

The CoolBean himself huh

[rocky wraith]

I am beanzing

[eternal talon]

Schaeffer log when? The ones in 6.5 are not dated

[rocky wraith]

one 2 days after energy release

where the sleepers flood the lower levels

13 oct

[eternal talon]

Bio-tracker log?

[rocky wraith]

the wording of it implies that they were known about before hand

[rocky wraith]

Yes that is when there was a massive surge of them, but is not necessarily the first time they were seen

[eternal talon]

The log says otherwise and I was quoting that log, as it is linked in that same sentence

[rocky wraith]

not a quote

you annotated saying first time they were spotted

[eternal talon]

I'm not going to argue with you beanz

[rocky wraith]

which is a false inferrence

[eternal talon]

??

You just completely jumped logs

[rocky wraith]

??

[eternal talon]

The medical center log says explicitly that once you have it, it stays in your system and you are forever quarantined.

I'm not going to lie and say otherwise

The people in that log may or may not be wrong but that is what it says.

[rocky wraith]

"Nothing can slow the decline of nam-v and it will remain in you system until you die (March 18th 2053)" this is exactly what you annotated it as

which is not even aligned to the log

[eternal talon]

Wdym bro

[eternal talon]

^^^ read this

[rocky wraith]

"Nothing can slow the decline of nam-v"

which is false

it even says so in the log

[eternal talon]

It does not say so in the log

Do you even hear yourself right now

[rocky wraith]

it says medical intervention can slow it

so why have you not included that with the annotation?

instead you ignore it

[eternal talon]

?

[rocky wraith]

The annotation!

[eternal talon]

What the fuck you mean

I was summarizing the events of the story regarding namv and the parasite

Slowing the decline meaning slowing the decline in population

[rocky wraith]

exactly, and I was hoping you could edit that annotation so its more accurate

[eternal talon]

Jesus

[rocky wraith]

it takes two secs mate

[eternal talon]

And I wrote that days ago, it's alotta fuckin logs

2 seconds for 30 logs

[rocky wraith]

exactly 2 seconds

[eternal talon]

It isn't an essay

[rocky wraith]

I'm not asking you to rewrite the whole thing

and since we refer to it often for timeline events like you do

[eternal talon]

I'm not including it in my for dummies doc, damn

[rocky wraith]

it is important that people do not pick up and spread misinformation

[eternal talon]

I was just laying it out as it's mentioned

[rocky wraith]

Yes which we are grateful for

[eternal talon]

That's not misinformation, that's a miscommunication based on a typo

It wasn't meant to be a permanent feature, I just threw it together because you asked a question the other day

[hazy ether]

What’s the lore behind the teleport or dimension jumps?

[eternal talon]

Well, two answers.

1. we have no idea
2. fancy allen tech

[rocky wraith]

MWP is required for tethering from human side, everything else is lost ancient Allen tech

[eternal talon]

We know what it does and who made it but not at all how it works

[rocky wraith]

And all current human use is dependent on the MWP

[eternal talon]

Yes

[rocky wraith]

as Losty said, the rest is unknown as this is all brand new, only seen past R6

[eternal talon]

And in regards to when sleepers were first sighted, I don't know what log you mean with schaeffer

Or much about it regarding the explosion

All of schaeffers logs are either near the very end, or after the total collapse of garganta

[rocky wraith]

I'll grab it

[harsh saffron]

https://www.notion.so/BIOCOM-illicit-communication-32d89344964844da8c0d11480d59aca6

that one?

[rocky wraith]

yup

ty

[eternal talon]

What about it

[rocky wraith]

basically from the language seen, Shafer refers to them as Sleepers, which is weird combined with the fact that he doesn't seem all that surprised about the sleepers

plus, and here's the important part, why call them sleepers if at that point in the surge, they would still be hunting and not engaging in their sleeping behaviours

I think there's a black hole of info here

[eternal talon]

Perhaps how they were when they uncovered the infected one for the autopsy?

Between that log and the explosion is a decent chunk of time for observations to be made, no?

[rocky wraith]

possibly but Shafer wouldn't have clearence to even know about the ones in the chambers

[rocky wraith]

true

[eternal talon]

Likely not, but finding a fucking alien would be huge news

[rocky wraith]

But I just find it very strange

[eternal talon]

It would probably spread like wildfire in garganta, especially with Kovac refusing to give details

[rocky wraith]

Already coming up for the name of "sleepers"

with him more focused on the annoyance of it all rather than surprise at sleepers

it avoids the more horrifiying fact that a lot of these sleepers would have been people Shafer would have been working with

[eternal talon]

Well no, from wherever they got the creature for the autopsy, I'd think they'd encounter far more than just one

[rocky wraith]

So I personally think sleepers were around a while before the explosion

[eternal talon]

Realistically speaking, they only show up after the autopsy afik so it's a fair assumption to make

And i wouldn't see how the explosion would suddenly cause sleepers to just then be a problem

Yeah the noise would probably wake a fuck ton of em, but it would probably also fry any close enough to hear it

[rocky wraith]

which is from back in september

We're missing around 4 months of logs

from March to August

[eternal talon]

Didn't somebody talk about the parasite only showing up after the autopsy aswell? I thought it was you who said that beanz, so I'm not sure why you are so confused now

[rocky wraith]

Parasite is back in February

[eternal talon]

We are always missing logs. GTFO lore is a hospital drip-feed

[rocky wraith]

Parasite arrived before autopsy

many months before

[eternal talon]

Well if they had both back in February, it wouldn't probably take more than a few days for them to start to show up in number

[rocky wraith]

which is why I think those 4 months of missing logs is somewhere around where the sleepers first appeared

[eternal talon]

And that's completely ignoring the infected allen ones from the inner

[eternal talon]

How are you so sure?

I thought you said that

[rocky wraith]

Log dated Feb 13th

[eternal talon]

In this ^

[rocky wraith]

"Our Culture"

[eternal talon]

(Can't reread it I'm on mobile rn)

[rocky wraith]

yeah, it was very rough and was more focused on the 65 million years part. Rest of it is incredibly imprecise and likely wrong

The focus of that writing was more on the fact that there was more than enough time for the sleeprs on Destination to evolve over the 65 million years before humans reach them

[eternal talon]

No...

Because they aren't the same as the ones in the meteor

And the ones in the meteor were hibernating

[rocky wraith]

exactly

they are 65 millions years of evolution apart

[eternal talon]

Besides, I think your neglecting to remember that the life forms on destination were never sleeping. They were active "hunting" from day1 Durant got there.

So they would have starved to death

Had there not still been hosts to infect

[rocky wraith]

the ones in the meteor are as if they were frozen in time from when they first departed destination

the ones on destination kepted growing for 65 million years

[eternal talon]

Cool, slow down and read my next few messages carefullt

Carefully

So

The allens depart destination, right?

The infected make it to earth and go hibernation

The ones still on destination, they have a problem

When Durant and his team get there, they are still active. Displaying "hunting tactics"

[rocky wraith]

I never said they were sleeping,

[eternal talon]

What the fuck are they rating for 65 million years

There have to be hosts.

And if there are hosts

[rocky wraith]

The planet

all the biomass

[eternal talon]

No

[rocky wraith]

there is no water seen, its bone dry

where is all the vegetation?

all the life?

[eternal talon]

The whole reason why they hibernate for so long is because they eat through food so damn fast

THERE IS LITERALLY LIFE THO

PLANTS EVERYWHERE

[rocky wraith]

Dying plants

[eternal talon]

Wdym bro

No

Not dying

[rocky wraith]

bone dry

no green

[eternal talon]

No

Dude

Have you never been to a desert before

That's how those kind of plants are naturally

They are thistle

They don't go pure green

[past matrix]

cacti 🤔

[rocky wraith]

So why wouldn't the sleepers accumulate them as well?

[eternal talon]

And if they were dying, they would have millions of years ago

[celest pagoda]

There is water. We've seen it explicitly in (as far as I recall) C1 and D1. The water is shallow and resigned to small pools and rain, but there IS water.

[rocky wraith]

ah true

[eternal talon]

Carnivore vs vegetarian, probably

[rocky wraith]

So is the Sleepers there maintaining a very specific environment

[eternal talon]

Cool, my point is, there have to be hosts since they haven't starved yet

The floaters and kraken and stuff are natives

Not pure forms

They'd have looooong since starved to death being constantly active otherwise

[rocky wraith]

can't assume that, the ones in the complex have been sitting there for at least a decade sometimes

[eternal talon]

Asleep

[past matrix]

the desert does have a lot of pure green plants, although there are ones that are just like a lighter? shade of green but I guess it just depends on what desert you're in

[rocky wraith]

and as well the number of uneaten corpses about

[eternal talon]

You can also see flowers on the thistle

Im on mobile so I don't have pics, but I do on my pc

[rocky wraith]

we know the sleepers can accumulate biomass in the cocoons

[eternal talon]

Will post when I'm home

[rocky wraith]

and where did the wallsacks come from?

[eternal talon]

But my point is, destination isn't dead

If it was then there would be no parasite and nam-v

Flat out.

BECAUSE they were still active

[celest pagoda]

We still haven't been given any hints, but it could be assumed to be a product of the Destinstion. They are fungus, and shoot out spores upon popping.

[eternal talon]

And weren't sleeping like the ones in the meteor were

[rocky wraith]

Which raises the question, did they sleep for 65 million years? or are they just evolving since then to match the niche

[eternal talon]

Evolving requires generations, so likely not.

[rocky wraith]

They can grow their own

they don't always need hosts

[eternal talon]

Numbers in the meteor were likely extremely limited and it requires a great deal of energy to multiply

[rocky wraith]

yes the meteor were sleeping and in hibernation

or in stasis in some form

but the ones on Destination have plenty of oppurtunity to evolve. Where they become the natives in the same way that invasive species change the ecosystem to suit them

They become the fliers, to fit what niche is unknown

And because we don't know the niche, we can't assume much about the specifics of the fliers

[eternal talon]

So you are talking a small parasite evolving into a large multicellular organism?

At that point of evolution, why don't the creatures of destination and sleepers attack eachother?

They don't, they work together to kill us.

They cannot possibly be that far removed

D4 on earth, and BX on destination, sleepers and floaters working together

Humans and Neanderthal didn't get along when both existed

And those were close relatives

[hazy ether]

They too have the same half alive skin look and glowing stuff in their bodies.

[rocky wraith]

No, the parasite obviously allows a greater change to take place in the hosts genome, meaning that there is even more chance for them to evolve

[rocky wraith]

They have

[eternal talon]

No

They have NOT.

Source pls.

[rocky wraith]

by the fact the sleepers are the only creatures we have seen on destination

[eternal talon]

That's not what I said

[rocky wraith]

the native wildlife was murked when the sleepers gained control

[eternal talon]

Also they clearly can't be the only things on destination, beanz

Otherwise they wouldn't be there. Or they would be hibernating

[rocky wraith]

by the fact that the sleepers in garganta and the fliers don't attack each other implies recognition that the parasites have for each other

[rocky wraith]

They could be there

[eternal talon]

They werent

Durant describes them as hunting

[rocky wraith]

exactly, so they must have adapted the environment to always provide for them

afixing them for the long term

[eternal talon]

What are you even saying

[rocky wraith]

Basically adapting environment to suit an invasive species needs

[eternal talon]

It's a parasite. It doesn't have the capacity to think like that

Viruses and stuff starve themselves out all the time.. look at the bubonic plague

[rocky wraith]

it doesn't but the host can

[eternal talon]

The host doesn't matter

[rocky wraith]

we aren't dealing with anything normal

[eternal talon]

The parasite is in control, not the host

[rocky wraith]

the parasite can literally change the host to fire homing energy bolts

[rocky wraith]

animals change their environments to fit their niche

[eternal talon]

Yes

[rocky wraith]

it doesn't require cognition

[eternal talon]

But invasive species are different

Look at jumping carp

They only barely did

[rocky wraith]

barely, and succeded

[eternal talon]

They took over 90% of rivers in north America all the way almost to the Great lakes

The virus is way, WAAAY over that threshold

[rocky wraith]

They have modified the very planet, and unsurprising since they were given 65 million years to do so

[eternal talon]

If you want to argue that something like this can find balance, then i will stop talking about it

[eternal talon]

Source

How did they modify the planet

[rocky wraith]

The fact that the planet used to be lived in by a spacefaring civilisation, but now there is barely a trace of them

[eternal talon]

Because they got fucking wiped out

Dead, exterminated

[rocky wraith]

yup

[eternal talon]

That's not balanced

[rocky wraith]

because it changed

[eternal talon]

My guy I think you are going off the deep end

[rocky wraith]

what used to fit the space-faring civilisation has obviously changed to fit the niche for the sleepers

[eternal talon]

I get what your trying to say but it's just flat not possible

[rocky wraith]

I reckon so

[eternal talon]

They couldn't have evolved to any significant degree because the two groups of parasite and virus don't fight

And the fact they are active and not sleeping shows there are still life on destination to hunt

[rocky wraith]

they coevolve its a common thing seen in biology between host and parasite infections, often termed as the red-queen hypothesis

[eternal talon]

We have not seen any example of them taking their own unique forms, and we have evidence that there is still life on destination, it is far easier to think that its natives than having the parasite do something it's NEVER done before, that's occam's razor for you.

[rocky wraith]

which they have let live if only to sustain themselves

[eternal talon]

They were on opposite sides of the galexy. That just doesn't happen

[rocky wraith]

So why don't the sleepers attack the fliers?

[eternal talon]

Destination is 3 THOUSAND LIGHT YEARS AWAY

[eternal talon]

I'm telling you why. Because they are still the same species to recognize eachother

[rocky wraith]

They aren't taking their own form, they are modifying the form they have got

[rocky wraith]

Exactly what I'm saying

[eternal talon]

The form of the life on destination

[rocky wraith]

The ones they originally infected

[eternal talon]

No

[rocky wraith]

yes

[eternal talon]

It's not their repertoire

They can't turn a sheep into a cow because they know the genetic data of a cow

They manipulate the life they have into a form they need, they don't replace it

[rocky wraith]

But they can mutate and select to fit a niche

[eternal talon]

Each parasite is individual

[rocky wraith]

Like how scouts are created

[eternal talon]

Its a hive not a have mind

[eternal talon]

Yes but not between species

[rocky wraith]

don't need cognition to adapt to environment

[rocky wraith]

coevolution

which is super common

[shut mountain]

_ _

[rocky wraith]

And they don't need to make a cow

[eternal talon]

This quote of yours is the problem I am talking about

[rocky wraith]

simply something that is better suited than what they used to have

[eternal talon]

They didn't evolve fliers, they infected fliers

The change is too great

[rocky wraith]

Not for the parasite, look how much they change humans

[eternal talon]

Some flying organism? Almost certainly

[rocky wraith]

they make humans have tentacles

even shoot energy things that home in

[eternal talon]

They still look like humans

You can still make out what it originally was

[rocky wraith]

after 65 million years, who knows what they'll look like

[eternal talon]

This is my point

[rocky wraith]

65 million years ago humans did not look like humans

[eternal talon]

The floaters we see aren't 65 million years old though

I've said this

[rocky wraith]

individually they aren't

[eternal talon]

There is still life on destination

They are infected of those forms

[rocky wraith]

but they have been growing for 65 million years, changing little by little

[eternal talon]

The parasite isn't selectively breeding species, it isn't that smart

[rocky wraith]

they have shown the ability to replicate without hosts

[eternal talon]

It uses very rudimentary behavior in regards to human infected

[rocky wraith]

No, they do it the old fashion way with natural selection and competition rewardance

[shut mountain]

Why do you think the flyers are infected? For all we know, they could be a natural life form of the nebula or whatever

[eternal talon]

Because they and sleepers don't fight

[rocky wraith]

Because they don't attack sleepers

[eternal talon]

Them being infected is 100% certain

[shut mountain]

It's not really tbh, they could be a co-existing species

unless you have a source that explicitly states so

that they are infected

[eternal talon]

The parasite lives by taking over all other native species

[rocky wraith]

No, 65 million years apart means they couldn't co-evolve

[shut mountain]

Again, it's all theory

[eternal talon]

You wouldn't live and cooperate with cordacepts

[hot burrow]

A game theory 😎

[shut mountain]

Thatrs not a source thou

thats a theory

JUST A GAME THEORY

[rocky wraith]

And it can generate from biomass new generations

[eternal talon]

The subject of the mother is very iffy

We don't know what those forms turn into

[rocky wraith]

Not mother

cocoons

respawn rooms

[eternal talon]

Those are even weirder

Also is that stuff even cannon?

[hazy ether]

If they are just co existing it would be weird that the fliers flesh design are similar to the sleepers.

[rocky wraith]

exactly, it is massively different from human biology

[radiant cedar]

have you heard about the chimp theory

[rocky wraith]

the parasites obviously have a lot of tools to change their hosts

[hot burrow]

Catfish theory

[past matrix]

its not a theory I fear

its cold hard facts im afraid

[rocky wraith]

Grown in the same way possibly by cocoons

[coarse copper]

Stickbug theory

[shut mountain]

Literally thou, let people theorise cause we are talking about a fictional universe that we still barely know nothing off. Jokey riding on "facts" that might not apply to the gtfo universe cause it's not our real world, but a made up one, just dis-encourages others from putting out their own theories, even if they might be wobbly

[rocky wraith]

magic

[eternal talon]

Assuming the floaters and the infection are cooperative is the equivalent of assuming ants and cordacepts are cooperative

It's only in the benefit of one species

[rocky wraith]

The question we are arguing over is whether the parasite can change the original Allens enough over 65 million years to become floaters

or whether floaters are native

[hazy ether]

🍿 still this is entertaining to read.

[eternal talon]

The allens? No

Because if somehow the did, they wouldn't be the allens anymore

[rocky wraith]

I think they could, they change humans so massively already in a few years that I reckon it is possible

[eternal talon]

And that is still the question of what the infection is hunting

[rocky wraith]

seen ants raise aphids for food in their colonies? could be a similar thing

gtg for dinner

[eternal talon]

Yes, however that is not humans. That is effectively selective breeding preferable hosts on the parasite's end.

[eternal talon]

To add on to this, while it looks like me and @rocky wraith are fighting, we are not. We are debating

Don't be afraid to post theories here, it is the nature of the lore to dig into each and every theory for plausibility

[shut mountain]

I mean, my point is is that the way you can sometimes debate Frosty can scare people away.

[eternal talon]

I mean yeah, fair enough, but without someone to contest theories nothing new will be gained. An echo chamber prevents learning

Even if I agree with parts of one theory or another

[shut mountain]

Would be great if a bit more patience and understanding would go into debating. Debating is never about one person being in the right, or the other, but a synthesis being formed.

[hazy ether]

As long as insults aren’t being thrown it’s fine I think

[eternal talon]

Yeah. When it crosses from criticizing theory to criticizing the people is when it becomes a problem, though it's a fairly opaque border

[hazy ether]

People should 100% adopt PEA formatting

[eternal talon]

Pea formatting?

We've only got the one channel, and it essentially boils down into a giant scroll wheel

Anything that would muddy it further would probably be more of a hindrance than help tbh

[hazy ether]

I was joking.

[eternal talon]

About what

What IS pea formatting

[hazy ether]

Point Evidence Analysis

[shut mountain]

Honestly you could easily format a theory with PEA

it would be easier to read too

[eternal talon]

I don't know what that is in terms of format

[hazy ether]

So you make a point in one paragraph and provide evidence in another paragraph and so on.

[shut mountain]

Point
My point here.

Evidence
Presenting possible source or evidence

Analysis
Pretty self explanatory.

[eternal talon]

Tbf this isn't a very structured place outside of reports and summaries, theories tend to pop up out of the blue and there is no order to it.

Having a requirement to submit theories for consideration would only ruin it

[past matrix]

I think the sleepers are chimps

Sleepers look like chimps

Chimps looking like sleepers would mean that chimps are sleepers

like that

[radiant cedar]

you know it

[hazy ether]

It would probably help with debates but I don’t think lore should be taken that seriously.

[eternal talon]

Honestly the lore is very uncertain and basically every sentence is up for question

We have to do a lot with very little

To know even half the stuff we do today

All the codes and cryptography the devs make certainly doesn't help that degree

[hazy ether]

It’s the uncertainty that adds onto the fun though. If you knew everything there wouldn’t be anything left to talk about.

[eternal talon]

Which is why everything is taken seriously here

It's kind of all important

One new viewpoint or another may just turn out to be a major discovery

[shut mountain]

I mean, you don't have to necessarily. Sometimes it is better to be happy with what you got and not try to explain everything with a small dose of info, or let a bit of your imagination go free. In the end a lot of stuff is just theories here, if there is anything major the developers themselves present that on a plate thats in a escape room LMAO

Sometimes taking everything dead seriously will make you miss the forest cause you are focusing on a single tree

[eternal talon]

Nahhh

Overanalyzing everything ftw

C'mon, we all know you'd love to overanalyze shirtless hackett

👀

[shut mountain]

Nah, if he is shirtless he is shirtless

thats the conclusion

and all that matters

to me

[cedar eagle]

Source?

[shut mountain]

gtfo release trailer

[radiant cedar]

where's the PEA

[shut mountain]

shirtless woods

not release

fuck

the reveal

[past matrix]

shirtless North is better than shirtless Hackett I fear

[eternal talon]

Shirtless bishop

[shut mountain]

💀 Honestly thou, I guess the old lore has changed so much that its no longer possible unironically.

The old reveal trailer really did show the prisoners looking a lot more casual in their outfits

[pine agate]

Just make shirtless a cosmetic option smh

[shut mountain]

while the current ones all have at least some integrity to them

[eternal talon]

They also had like m16s

[pine agate]

Going to E1 Shirtless, the way it's meant to be

[past matrix]

aren't there cargo shorts

[shut mountain]

Plus back in the good ol day the devs did say that our player characters are not soldiers
POV - Two of them being ex soldiers in the current lore

So like it's so flexible and inter-changable

[eternal talon]

Also short shorts and jeggings

Rough dexterity suuucks

[past matrix]

ive been thinking ever since Schaeffer was introduced

what if Schaeffer is canonically North

[shut mountain]

North is Hackett's cousin from North Ireland

[rocky wraith]

Exactly, very important. I would be very annoyed if Lostty didn't put their full effort into criticising my speculations, especially because we have so little to work with

[rocky wraith]

This too

[rocky wraith]

think Shafer is American

[eternal talon]

Or he was born elsewhere and moved there, yeah. It would seem so

[past matrix]

yeah he could have moved there

so he could still be North

[rocky wraith]

not sure about accent either

[eternal talon]

i never played the alpha

so i wouldn't know

[rocky wraith]

it is known that Shafer hates his family

or at least doesn't like them

[past matrix]

yeah and North probably hates his family too

assumingly

[rocky wraith]

Shafer spent 16 years in the family business

[past matrix]

prosperity for violence

[eternal talon]

kind of an odd detail then

[past matrix]

North has been seen shooting guns

[eternal talon]

how do we know he hates his family?

[past matrix]

we dont, im just assuming it because he's named after a direction

its like naming your child "east" or "west"

[eternal talon]

schaeffer isn't

[past matrix]

North is

oh

[eternal talon]

north is a cool name though

north best cardinal

[rocky wraith]

gets violent with them

[eternal talon]

ice, winter, snow, hail, permafrost

[eternal talon]

when was this?

i don't recall reading or hearing anything of the sort

[rocky wraith]

thought it was in the report

[eternal talon]

what?

hold on

[rocky wraith]

first sentence of the personal background

[eternal talon]

i don't remember reading anything about his family at all

it says he gets angry when seperated from his family

not the other way aroun

[rocky wraith]

"the candidate has shown a great propensity for violence when pushed to extremes, though seperation from the source (his family" should reduce the possibility of repeat behaviour"

[eternal talon]

oh though not through

nvm

[rocky wraith]

also

beat up his dad

[eternal talon]

ehh, was it a stepdad?

that could be understandable then

[rocky wraith]

doesn't say further

there are all sorts of scenarios

but a mute point

[eternal talon]

https://tenor.com/view/emotional-damage-emotional-damage-meme-funny-gif-24332819

do we know anything about the rest of his family?

as to why or what the business was?

[rocky wraith]

think he listed no next of kin, despite options. I'm trying to find where that is mentioned

[rocky wraith]

last sentence

[burnt wren]

Is Shaufer the only confirmed survivor besides us and other squads?

[eternal talon]

Yes

Though I suppose you could say the names on the board in cx

That aren't scratched off

But we don't know when that hideout was made/abandoned

[finite vine]

sleepers were most likely encountered far before October 11th, 2053. In one of Schaffer’s logs to Artus he describes the energy blasts and the “KSO’s holding off sleepers left and right” so he was already familiar with sleepers before the energy explosions that supposedly came from the inner. This is my theory: Sleepers or parasites were discovered right when miners reached the tunnels inside “The Egg”, somewhere below 1500 meters. Then sleepers became a problem, and later Project Insight dove deeper into The Egg, sending expeditions to “The Inner”, finding artifacts and Alien things. Then they broke into something inside The Inner and it released the massive energy tunnels we know of on October 2053.

[eternal talon]

Which log is that

[finite vine]

https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?p=32d89344964844da8c0d11480d59aca6

It definitely implies that Schaeffer was aware and comfortable with the term sleepers.

[eternal talon]

there is nothing in here that says what you claim

../BIOCOM
illicit communication
meta3.date_stamp(531008.092419)
concern begins/..

D-Lock Block Cipher
alias:int_server.1024_ciph.C067.tier4.j_schaeffer.flagged

Shafe,

I’ve processed the environmental data collected over the last 3 years, and there is no record of anything like we’re seeing now. The temperature readings are off the charts – way in excess of the variance we expected at 2000. The cooling system is being pushed past max just to keep the lowest levels tolerable. There is constant seismic activity that the geos assure me does not mean the entire complex is about to collapse, but when you’re in one of those tremors that doesn’t bring me any comfort.

I don’t know where your supervisors are posted at the moment, but if you have any work orders below 2000+ you might want to tell them to start writing their letters home.

I’m installing the system that I told you about for our mutual boss. I’m going deep on this one – and it is really, really uncomfortable down here. This place makes you want to scratch the inside of your head.

Honestly, I think they’re hitting some kind of geothermal mass but everyone’s too afraid to say anything. If our probes are closing in on a geological anomaly with unknown properties, I feel like energy spikes, temperature fluctuations, seismic activity, and a shared sense of doom and fear would be a big tell, right?

It’s all very well prioritizing emergency procedure education, but isn’t it better to just avoid the emergency in the first place?

Hit me back.

Artus

../BIOCOM
personnel files updated
alert system flagged
concern ends/..

[finite vine]

its a theory. using this log and other logs.

[eternal talon]

it's complete lies

[finite vine]

what?

[eternal talon]

"kso holding off sleepers left and right" is bull

it's not in this log

nothing even remotely close to that is here

on a scale for 1-10 for close it's -3

[finite vine]

your looking at the wrong log homie

relax

[eternal talon]

this IS biocom illicit communication

which is what you said

[finite vine]

dude, click on the link I sent. there are two of these logs

[eternal talon]

dude.. read a callendar

september is before october

it's the month before

the life form log is a month before the log you posted

[finite vine]

man. click on the link. look at the date. October 13th, 2053.

[eternal talon]

yes

[finite vine]

BCOM-3ED-0946.LOG

[eternal talon]

OCTOBER

my man

[finite vine]

when did I ever mention anything about September? I don't see why September is relevant.

[eternal talon]

you quoted me saying that there was no sign of sleepers before september

which is true

verifiably

that is the message of mine you quoted

[finite vine]

ok, so you are suggesting that Schaeffer became acquainted with the term "Sleeper" during september?

[eternal talon]

no

the only thing that post says is that there was no sign of sleepers before that specific date

it was quoting the logs of what happens when

[finite vine]

ok, and I provided a theory that sleepers were probably a problem before October 2053, and I provided a good reason for it. that's all I was saying.

[finite vine]

so when do you think Schaeffer learned about sleepers?

[eternal talon]

me?

well, that'd probably have more to do with the parasite at large than just schaeffer specifically

i doubt he was one of the first people to see something crazy like it morphing people like that,

he'd have probably written about it to his friend

i suppose it would depend on how long the parasite takes to convert hosts.

but given how fast nam-v spreads, and i'm not saying it spreads anywhere near as fast, but i'd still reckon maybe a week, maybe two before it starts to spread quite a bit.

[finite vine]

"expeditions to the inner on October 2nd 2053 by Project Insight

Biotrackers detect biomass on sublevels 266 and down on October 11th 2053 (first time sleepers likely encountered?)"

I was questioning this btw^

You said that this was likely the first time sleepers were encountered, I disagree b/c Schaeffer used the term "Sleepers" in his log.

[eternal talon]

while garganta is big, it is enclosed, so the parasites especially early on would be lethal

[eternal talon]

that log is 2 days before the other one, but honestly it could be any

it just depends on the spread rate

but no, given most of garganta is infected with nam-v already at this point, it'd probably not take that long

maybe a couple weeks at most for a foothold to be gained by the sleeper hives.

[finite vine]

when do you think the first sleeper was found? on October 11th (the energy explosions) or some other date?

[eternal talon]

the first sleeper?

well, technically speaking, that question has 3 answers.

and questions

[finite vine]

found/ created/ developed/ whatever

[eternal talon]

1. the edgar/teal allen if it was infected,
   2)the allen corpse that was autopsied
   or
   3)some infected encountered after that between logs

[finite vine]

do u have dates? cant remember all those off the top of my head

[eternal talon]

the log with the autopsy does say that it could be carrying potentially dangerous pathogens, but it doesn't say explicitly if it did

[finite vine]

thats the one during september right?

[eternal talon]

yes

the one you quoted

it's the first link

[finite vine]

yea. I wonder if the term sleeper would spread around that fast

in a month

[eternal talon]

and if you scroll up i think there should also be a link to the edgar teal log

[eternal talon]

it depends on how the term came up.

if the allen they found was a part of a group sleeping and hibernating,

or what have you

there isn't enough data for me to speculate even

[finite vine]

also what is the fossil?

is it just another name for The Egg?

[eternal talon]

i would think the "sleepers", er, infected allens would be there the whole time, it would just simply be determined by when they were encountered

afik the fossil and the egg are all names for the meteor

though i'm a bit muddy on that

the egg might also be a name for the inner

[eternal talon]

flowers

honestly ngl it looks actually pretty close to Syrian thistle

while not blooming, of course

[south lake]

Would make sense for an alien world with earthlike conditions to have some similar analogues to Earth organisms. There's only so many configurations carbon-based life can take before it comes across the most ideal for its current evolutionary situation.

Inb4 it actually is Earth and we're just being misled

Please don't take that as fact

It's just me half-joking

[burnt wave]

mfw teleported to nevada for .5 seconds of freedom

[south lake]

I haven't seen the developers flat out say "No, this isn't Earth", but that doesn't mean they haven't

I just remember when they were fussing with that coordinates business a bit ago, someone mentioned that the coordinates pointed to some seabed on Earth

And I could see that being legitimate if earth were actually just a dried out ball of dirt and sand after the "apocalypse" that was NAM-V

Especially given how desperate people get in dire situations

All it would take is a nuke or something similar strong enough (which I'd think we're perfectly capable of building in GTFO's timeframe) to blow enough of a hole in the atmosphere to raise the global temperature enough, and Earth's (literally) toast

[eternal talon]

It's either the middle of the Atlantic ocean near the mid-atlantic ridge or the butterfly nebula 3,000 light years away.

Those are the two locations the coordinates point to.

But I doubt destination is in the middle of the atlantic

We see liquid water in levels like c1

And time travel theory is a bit.. it's a bit much

Also plants need water, be it rain or what have you

Also oxygen..

I would think blowing a hole in the atmosphere would have major repercussions aside from just water levels

[past matrix]

yknow i like the nebula theory and i think it makes sense

but isnt the butterfly nebula hot as fuck

[eternal talon]

Damn right, the coordinates point to the middle of a fucking sun

[tall anchor]

well, more like where a sun was 3000 years ago

[eternal talon]

I remember reading about this

It's dimming by a certain % each year

The star will still be there for a few hundred years

And that's from today

[finite vine]

well once a star supernovas, it usually creates a nebula, and a black hole or neutron star. I don't think a planet would survive near a neutron star or black hole. at least close to it, that is. If destination alpha is near the butterfly nebula, then it is probably located on the outer wings of it.

nvm, just read that the star at the center of the nebula is a white dwarf.

but it has a surface temp of 400,000 F

there is also very high radiation, which is causing the gas that was ejected by the star to glow.

I think the butterfly nebula signifies not the location of destination alpha, but the location of a catastrophic event that occurred a long time ago, which caused the supernova and nebula. possibly something to do with the meteor and aliens.

[south lake]

Given the indicated 200,000 Kelvin, it's more along the lines of 350,000 F, give or take a couple hundred degrees

Which is still Really Goddamn Hot™️

Comparatively, Sol is about 5,772 degrees Kelvin in its effective Photosphere

The astral coordinates pointing to the Butterfly Nebula are probably unrelated to the planet we get sent to, so I think you might be right in that whatever was in that nebula prior to the star's detonation might have been related to the aliens and the meteor.

I wonder if maybe the planet is just the location of a former colony?

We have yet to find any alien ruins, but given how light travels, whatever may have been there could be hundreds of thousands of years in the making, if not more, depending on the location

The distance from Earth would basically dictate how long of a timeframe existed between whatever catastrophe took place and Earth figuring out a way to get there

Well, a (very) rough estimate at least

Since the meteor would have to travel that distance with no sublight/faster-than-light assistance, give or take some AU/LY based on where the meteor originated in relation to the planet.

[eternal talon]

I found one tho..

[silver sandal]

I always kind of thought the floaters were the offspring of the Krakens (monster at end of D1)

[eternal talon]

As far as we know they are separate species, but not much info on it to be certain without a doubt

[south lake]

Oh no for sure, at least until proven otherwise

I'm just wondering if maybe the planet we're sent to is a former colony that fell apart after the Parasite hit, and what's left is all because of said parasite wiping out the ecology

Although

[south lake]

Having played Stellaris, I can't help but wonder if the aliens are the parasite?

[eternal talon]

no

[south lake]

Or some massively devolved form of them, at least

[eternal talon]

since edgar/teal log allen wasn't directly hostile like sleepers are

[south lake]

To explain what I'm thinking, there's an origin in Stellaris that basically has the species using said origin insert a parasite into alien organisms that eventually turns them into one of the implanting species

I wonder if maybe there's some aspect of that here

But if there is, it's gone wildly out of control, and isn't doing what it originally was meant to

[eternal talon]

We have not the slightest indication as to the true origin of the parasite and virus.

Be it nature or nurture

[south lake]

Okay? That doesn't mean we shouldn't present ideas and ask questions, though.

Even if they might be incorrect

[eternal talon]

Yeah, but that's going waaaaay beyond the scope of the game.

[south lake]

..Right.

Okay.

Forget I said anything, then.

[eternal talon]

As much as I'd hope for it, I doubt we will ever get to delve into info about the allens species and civilization

Much more than "they were here, they did x, go do y"

If we were to talk about what could be, well quite frankly I'm not sure

It depends on what kind of stance you think is more likely

That they discovered it and it is a natural thing, or that they made it in a lab and it is unnatural

[silver sandal]

Reminds me of the Engineers in Alien. Long gone but their bioweapon is still around

[south lake]

That was my thinking too, but that's apparently way beyond the scope of the game, so

[eternal talon]

.. that's actually a pretty damn good example

[south lake]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[silver sandal]

So how is the Meteor connected with the Planet Destination?

[eternal talon]

Go ahead, I can't stop you

[eternal talon]

Well, it would seem that it is from destination

It had the crystals found on destination inside, and destination is the only other place we know of that has the parasite and virus

[south lake]

I don't have the energy to get into another argument with you about stuff like this, so I'll pass.

[eternal talon]

Aswell that the MWP in the meteor led to Destination

[eternal talon]

I'm not arguing?

Genuinely

[south lake]

The general feeling I have is that it would lead to one.

And I'm not up for that. Not tonight.

[eternal talon]

I responded before saying ^

[south lake]

So if it's beyond the scope of the game, fine.

Topic dropped.

[silver sandal]

Also is there any deeper lore on the Kraken?

[eternal talon]

Ok.. then

[eternal talon]

Lore? No. Speculation? Depends on who you ask

It looks like some kind of aquatic creature that was infected and heavily modified, but I'm no biologist

[silver sandal]

I bet there were some epic battles between KSO and infected during the fall of Garganta

[eternal talon]

Most likely

[silver sandal]

So above ground most things are dead but not sleepers?

[south lake]

As far as we're able to know, the Parasite has not gotten outside of Garganta, correct.

NAM-V however, has

Burning those bodies is probably the one good thing that Santonian and Kovac did, tbh

Since it might have stopped said parasite from getting out

[eternal talon]

Correct

[south lake]

I wouldn't be surprised if one of the secondary goals during the very very early Rundowns was sweeping the upper floors of Sleepers to prevent a parasite breakout

[eternal talon]

As far as I'm aware, after nam-v started becoming a serious problem Kovac setup a perimeter and isolated garganta. With the help of diplomats in the Yucatan, they declared martial law and nobody was allowed in or out. It was only after this point that the parasites started to show up and be uncovered

[silver sandal]

What are some theories on what the Warden is up to?

[eternal talon]

So the place was sealed shut like a coffin, thankfully

[south lake]

And yet there's still a massive hole in the complex ceiling

Given we get hit with rain on our way in during drops

[eternal talon]

Yeahhhh

[south lake]

Barbwire fences ain't gonna do shit to stop Sleepers

[eternal talon]

It do be pretty steep tho

[finite vine]

I don't think its confirmed if the material found inside the meteor on earth is the same thing as the crystals on destination alpha.

[south lake]

All it takes is one.

[eternal talon]

The holes we drop down in are from the explosion from the inner

[south lake]

Given what I've heard about the Rundown extension, self-actualization most likely.

[eternal talon]

Not cretasium, the MWP and the stuff to power it are the crystals from destination

[south lake]

I haven't been able to clear the extension myself because someone in my friend group keeps putting it off.

And we're supposed to wait for eachother.

[eternal talon]

I had posted a great comparison shot in here recently

[finite vine]

those bodies were burned way before NAM-V was found I thought? like in 2049 or something like that right when the complex was starting to be constructed.

[eternal talon]

That's what I thought too

[finite vine]

yea but u said the crystals were found inside the meteor.

[eternal talon]

Because of the Meridia faultline stuff

[south lake]

From what I remember about the dialogue, they were extensively mangled, references to too-long limbs, limbs bent backwards and such

[eternal talon]

What I said was true, from a certain point of view, as obi-wan kenobi would say

[south lake]

Those burnt bodies could have been the parasite attempting different mutagenic configurations with an unfamiliar biology

[eternal talon]

In the meteor In the mwp and wherever they found the crystals to run it in the meteor

[south lake]

Similar to how a virus goes through multiple mutations until it finds one that works

[eternal talon]

The parasite doesn't escape the meteor until far later though

[past matrix]

something to do with the neonate from r2/3, presumably

unless the mimic is the neonate, which I hope it isnt (but it is still a possibility)

[south lake]

As far as we know.

[eternal talon]

Yes.. that is indeed what the logs say.

[south lake]

Are we certain Kovac/Santonian hasn't "black markered"/scrubbed any logs from earlier that might indicate a parasite presence?

[eternal talon]

They tried to hide the discovery of the allen after the autopsy, but failed at that

So it's not like they've been trying

But the logs also show their own private emails and such

[south lake]

I wonder if the alien corpse might've been ground zero for the parasite

[eternal talon]

We have logs between the CEOs aswell

[eternal talon]

Most likely, it is somewhere around that timeframe

But literally EVERYTHING to do with nam-v is because two idiots didn't follow quarantine procedure

[south lake]

To be fair

Given basic xenobiology, I don't think it would have mattered.

Though, I don't remember reading anything about if NAM-V is terrestrial or alien in origin

And my mind's a bit mushy right now from a migraine

[eternal talon]

It's not from earth

It and the parasite are from destination

[south lake]

Then yeah, I don't think quarantine procedures would have worked

The human body has no natural defense against a virus it hasn't ever encountered before

[eternal talon]

That's why they had the site and all the artifacts under quarantine

[south lake]

I don't follow, then

[eternal talon]

Okay so

[south lake]

Are you saying two people successfully left the facility despite martial law?

[eternal talon]

No

This is before that

Hold on

[south lake]

I just don't see how the virus could spread if it had no way to spread

IE everything being locked down at Garganta, no one in or out

[eternal talon]

Read this down

^

^^

These couple messages were so handy

I don't remember the exact date on the lockdown, but it was after nam-v went global

When martial law was declared

[finite vine]

we don’t really even know if the meteor came from destination.

I mean it’s likely, but it could of easily came from somewhere else.

[finite vine]

I personally think The Warden are a group of scientists using a modified version of BIOCOM (WRDN) to access garganta and attempt to make a cure for NAM-V/ save humanity.

[eternal talon]

We actually completely disproved that recently

The only person with override codes for the BIOCOM network is dead

Nobody can control it, at all

[past matrix]

whose to say they aren't working in tandem though

[eternal talon]

The fact that we have no evidence to reach that conclusion..

[past matrix]

I'm just saying, its weird how for quite a bit of time leading up to early access release the devs made it sound like the warden was a group

[eternal talon]

They also said no aliens..

[past matrix]

and the neonates different appearance between r3 and r4 seems a bit weird

[eternal talon]

So..

It's safe to say plans have changed significantly since then

[past matrix]

they were talking about no aliens in the context of the sleeper enemys we fight and in previous interviews before that, simon said it was supposed to be ambigious

[eternal talon]

Floaters and kraken say hi

[past matrix]

ah yes I remember back in r1 when floaters and krakens existed

[eternal talon]

What are you talking about?
Who said anything about r1?

Because I know it wasn't me

[past matrix]

they said it wasnt aliens back in 2019 lol

[finite vine]

lmao that is weak proof.

[eternal talon]

Yea. And quote ^

[eternal talon]

It's not but whatevs

This was an entire day topic with literally everyone in here

[finite vine]

I mean seriously, how do you know that person was the only person to have the BIOCOM access codes? also, someone could of hacked it? I mean we literally have a log showing someone/ something hacking BIOCOM and uploading WRDN

[eternal talon]

Because a log says that specifically.

In regards to controlling biocom

[finite vine]

log?

[eternal talon]

Yes.

Transfer of power and the installation log

[finite vine]

It’s probably a vague mention

[eternal talon]

Two logs

It's not vague at all

[past matrix]

except like I just said, they were talking about no aliens in the context of the sleepers. There's a massive chance the kraken wasn't even planned at the time nor was destination probably planned (especially considering the only thing to do with destination at all is just flying enemies seemingly previously being in the prealpha but even then they probably weren't like the flying enemies we see now)

[eternal talon]

The CEO of Kovac explicitly states he is the only one with the access keys to biocom

In different wording, forgive me I'm on mobile rn, but still

[past matrix]

obviously yes lore can change but sleepers very obviously aren't aliens; they're essentially infected humans. Plus the Warden had been mentioned several times as being a group of people whether it was consisting of actual humans or pronouns/wording used to describe the warden (such as "get what the warden want")

[finite vine]

anyway, even if that is the case, even if someone didn’t somehow get the code, we literally have a log showing BIOCOM being hacked from the inside.

[eternal talon]

Doesn't mean it was humans if you really wanna go there

[finite vine]

does not matter, my point being the access code is irrelevant because BIOCOM was hacked anyway.

[eternal talon]

https://tenor.com/view/wave-alien-alien-wave-funny-gif-20445994

[eternal talon]

Allens can teleport

[finite vine]

also from a technical standpoint it would be dumb to only give one person the access code.

[finite vine]

ok? the code is irrelevant

[eternal talon]

Technical standpoint. This is the truth

[eternal talon]

Denying lore is irrelevant

[harsh saffron]

Do we have any concrete reason to believe he's dead? I think we only specifically know of like 3 ppl that died and the EF-01 Mission. (Andrew Clinton, Jordy and Artus Charapon)

[finite vine]

can u link the log

[eternal talon]

Yeah

Changes log

[harsh saffron]

thats andrew clinton dead

[eternal talon]

He says that he is dead and this new guy is taking over

[past matrix]

wasnt andrew clinton just like a higher up at SMC

[finite vine]

i’m not denying lore. u said my theory was incorrect because only one person had the BIOCOM access code. I then proceeded to say the code is not needed because BIOCOM was hacked anyway.

[past matrix]

but its not like he was an extremely large figure; there were higher ups

[harsh saffron]

Yeah Andrew is Project Manager for SMC if I remember my chart correctly, don't have it rn

or like; for Garganta directly I guess

[past matrix]

andrews johanson was the head of Kovac

anders

not andrews 😳

[harsh saffron]

dont make me move my reaction 😡

[eternal talon]

I have tried to explain this to Andrew Clinton, but he is reluctant to allow us the access we need. I have told him we can insertback doors if he doesn't want us to refactor the systems and explained we won't need any engineering support from him. I have also reiterated that he will have override codes to limit BIOCOM access in case of an emergency.

This is the quotr

It is andrew

[eternal talon]

It is locked

No entry

[harsh saffron]

Yeah they need his help becuase they need access to Garganta Systems

[past matrix]

its anders, so "Changes" doesn't matter lol

[finite vine]

what’s locked?

[eternal talon]

No backdoors

The log says

You can't get into it externally

Only if biocom.lets you

Or you have the key

And key man is dead af

[eternal talon]

I said wrong log. I quoted right one

On phone

Duck help me here

I can't copy paste from the thing on my phone

[past matrix]

yeah i found the log

[eternal talon]

Changes says for certain key man is dead

[finite vine]

“override codes to limit BIOCOM access.” that means that there are codes to LOCKDOWN BIOCOM, not get access to it. So access was restricted, but not completely shut off, until the codes were used. anyway like I said, it doesn’t really matter because it was hacked from the inside anyway, no codes needed.

[eternal talon]

And key man was only one that could get in

[eternal talon]

Can't get inside to hack it without key

Allens

WHO IS DEAD

[finite vine]

explosions.

[eternal talon]

@finite vine

[harsh saffron]

They just have to ask him for access because its his Project. KDS are installing BIOCOM and now they need access to his systems and they can either work it into the systems directly, or they can install backdoors. Andrews has no higher access to BIOCOM than the KDS ppl.

[finite vine]

that is a broad assumption

[eternal talon]

So is assuming who is still alive

[past matrix]

tbh I think Andrew being the only one with access to biocom would be pretty stupid considering he isn't even the highest up on the ladder; he's close up but he isnt the guy at the top

[finite vine]

yea but we don’t even know if the aliens are alive or even what they are.

[harsh saffron]

It's like installing a pool in your Landlords house, of course you would have to ask him before.

[past matrix]

also having one person controlling BIOCOM and being the only person to control it is the worst idea ever

[eternal talon]

It literally says he is the only one with access

What do you want me to say?

[finite vine]

Schaeffer got into KDS Deep without a key.

[eternal talon]

That the log.is wrong?

[eternal talon]

Who the fuck

This isn't kds deep

Biocom isn't there

Wrdn isn't there

We had AN ENTIRE RUNDOWN

Just to get access to it

[finite vine]

no, he’s the only one with access to a key that can lock down BIOCOM. so people with the right clearance can probably enter and exit freely.

[eternal talon]

With HIS key

[finite vine]

engineers needed to work on BIOCOM anyway.

[harsh saffron]

They only ask for his permission to integrate it into the Garganta systems, he doesn't control BIOCOM.

[finite vine]

no? if it’s not locked down, they don’t need his key.

[harsh saffron]

They need his permission to the infrastructure

[eternal talon]

Didn't say that. Said he was only.one with access

[eternal talon]

Bruh

It IS locked doen

Everything is

Every door, every zone, everything

[past matrix]

it never once says he's the only one with access. It says that they're asking specifically him for access which makes sense considering he's the project manager

[finite vine]

yet Schaeffer found his way into KDS Deep. it’s not impossible.

[eternal talon]

Nö

It's neccessary

[finite vine]

true.

some trusted engineers could have access keys as well.

[harsh saffron]

Why would they give the only access to their super high tech system to someone outside their company, that doesn't make any sense

[finite vine]

anyway, BIOCOM was still hacked, by humans or not, we don’t know.

[eternal talon]

I'm not going to sit here and argue with you about stuff we are already confirmed

I've got stuff to do tommorrow

[harsh saffron]

It isn't tho, thats your interpretation ^^

[eternal talon]

The logs don't lie

[harsh saffron]

And we interpret that log differently

[eternal talon]

Your interpretation is contradictory

To the word for word

[harsh saffron]

?

[finite vine]

u are making a lot of assumptions and using them as facts. like the assumption that Andrew is the only one with the key, and the assumption that there is literally no other way into BIOCOM.

[eternal talon]

THATS WHAT IT SAYS

[harsh saffron]

Ok so they installed BIOCOM, which controls their few thousands strong military group and gave the control to some dude, they work with?

[eternal talon]

IM NOT SAYING IT MAKES SENSE

IM SAYING THATS WHAT THE BLOODY LOGS SAY

WORD OF GOD TRUTH IS TRUTH

[finite vine]

it does not explicitly say that andrew is the only one with the codes, it only says he has the authority to give codes to people/ use them.

[eternal talon]

And he is dead

So who is giving your supposed WHO personnel codes?

???

[past matrix]

Frosty, you're saying that

I have tried to explain this to Andrew Clinton, but he is reluctant to allow us the access we need.
means that its confirmed only Clinton, someone who is just the project manager, has access to the BIOCOM: an AI that is capable of causing "almost every subsystem in the entire facility" to shut down at the minimum

[finite vine]

your also assuming the codes were not passed on. they still need access to BIOCOM even if he is dead or not.

[eternal talon]

Yes. And the bit below that.

They wouldn't be trying to explain to Clinton if they had access themselves, they'd just go

Again, didn't say it had to make sense.

The logs are gospel

Praise be to Simon and 10c

[finite vine]

still, it’s not really enough to completely disprove what I suggested.

[eternal talon]

https://tenor.com/view/then-you-are-lost-obi-wan-star-wars-episode3-well-then-you-are-lost-gif-11609928

[harsh saffron]

Nah, we just think it means something different ^^

I like the gif tho

[finite vine]

I mean it’s the same mindset as saying the entire surface is dead because of NAM-V, like there is literally no way to know that for sure.

[eternal talon]

It's 100% lethal

And a 90% chance to be on every continent

Your trying to tell me..

ANY civilization survived..

[finite vine]

yes, i am because i’m not making any assumptions and using them as facts.

[eternal talon]

Rude

[harsh saffron]

Playing Plague Inc. has taught me that some ppl never get infected

[eternal talon]

Nam-v has Greenland, you are done

90% of ALL

Madagascar too, don't think you could get away so easily

[harsh saffron]

Researching at the north pole be like: "Where is everyone?"

[eternal talon]

You mean south

[harsh saffron]

both

[eternal talon]

North pole is water

?

Wdym both

North pole has no land

It's all ice and arctic sea

[past matrix]

I mean, I'm just saying, we do have those weird logs about the mayans and the mysterious illness that they got that almost killed them all on several occasions that is compared to the black death and covid, which the mayan disease was caused by earthqukes in yucatan...

[eternal talon]

Unless you mean places like svalbard but that's not the North pole

[harsh saffron]

North Pole Research

The North Pole sits in the middle of the Arctic Ocean on ice that is constantly drifting. Due to this instability, there are no permanent scientific research stations there. All scientific study is conducted from drifting research stations (managed by Russia for more than 50 years) and research ships, which ferried these scientists to the pole for short period.

Ok yeah nothing permanent sry

[past matrix]

yknow something i find really interesting is

when the Warden is hacking into things like terminals, it uses the syntax "//:"

or i think it is a syntax? It goes "//: (command)"

whereas in logs it uses \\root\

im not a programmer so I don't know if there's some real life meaning to them or not

[harsh saffron]

Do you have an example for the "//:"?

[harsh saffron]

thats reactor shutdown right?

[past matrix]

yea

[harsh saffron]

hm, maybe because the player character started it manually from a terminal then?
and in the other cases its WRDN accessing systems directly without manual input beforehand

[past matrix]

maybe

[harsh saffron]

I should say "Physical" in stead of "manual"

[past matrix]

tbh its the reactor shutdown and r2c2 that make me think there's someone using the warden/at least helping the warden

since the reactor shutdown alarm is caused by the warden fucking up

and r2c2's alarm is caused by the warden seemingly fucking up aswell

[lofty warren]

If we assume that the warden is a part of BIOCOM there is a log somewhere stating that BIOCOM needs a human user to interface and oversee/give commands. In the same log it states that (if needed) this can be patched out or something.

So it could be that somebody is “helping” the warden.

[quick grove]

Lol

Warden took over biocom

@lofty warren

[lofty warren]

I always thought that the warden was a subprogram of biocom.

[quick grove]

Nah

Someone put warden into biocom and warden took over

[lofty warren]

Can you point me to a log or lore page which can confirm this. I thought that the Warden was the subprogram of Biocom which ran the HSU facility and for some reason is using Biocom to achieve some kind of goal. But that it’s not possible completely because Biocom did not had full access. It’s in a log somewhere I remember that for Biocom to be effective it needed access to more systems but that was near the end of the known timeline so I don’t know if it was truly implemented. Thus when the warden took over Biocom (or used biocom) the first thing it needed to do was to gain access to those systems.

[harsh saffron]

https://www.notion.so/BIOCOM-online-6125ce6efbf64c7d83ebff3038a45574
This log is mostly what we have on that. BIOCOM trying to defend against the WRDN program/protocol being injected and presumably taking over.

[lofty warren]

Thanks! I read that different but I understand where you are coming from.

[eternal talon]

"He will have override codes to limit biocom access in case of emergency"

You can look at that one of two ways.

Access TO biocom, or access FROM biocom

Given what we know about how biocom runs the entire private army of KSOs, access TO biocom seems far more likely to me.

[unborn musk]

is there a place where all of the logs are kept to read through them at our own pace? @flat cliff was curious about lore related stuff that i do not know about

[lofty warren]

O https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0

[unborn musk]

THANK YOU

[swift oasis]

for the logs yea one of the best website is the notion he just linked to you (but there are no audios and no logs from the extension of rundown 6), for those go here https://gtfo.fandom.com/wiki/Rundown_6.0_Logs#BX_.2F.2FEXT and keep scrolling down, those are the logs from BX, CX, and DX (audios as well). also if you want to understand better the lore without searching every logs, go the pinned messages and search for "FOR DUMMIES", it's a good summary

[harsh saffron]

Notion does have the audio logs but no transcript for them. The extension logs are also there.

[swift oasis]

didnt noticed last time I checked, great news

Just finished DX and saw specimen 22, or so-called unit 22. That baby arm tells us clearly it's the neonate, but what pisses me off is in audio it has really a robotic voice. or maybe when he first heard words and he learned them, those words came from a malfunctioning speaker and so he mimicked the "robotic" side of what he heard

[harsh saffron]

rly like that idea

[swift oasis]

can we consider that the Warden may be trying to create a new hybrid "human" species, able to resist to the nam-v ? or this theory has already been considered and burried

[harsh saffron]

I think that one is still floating around, we don't really have enough info to rule out too many theories anyway

[subtle verge]

Warden Stats for R5. 👀

[cobalt mulch]

what pride and humble joy to be in those stats for some levels

[past matrix]

that doesn't mean anything lmao, they're going to give him the ability to limit biocom controls because they want him to give it more access. Pretty odd how its them giving him the override codes

[eternal talon]

For the 15th time, that is what the log says

[past matrix]

yes but its irrelevant like we said. The log doesn't confirm anything if you look at the context

[eternal talon]

The logs are never irrelevant, they are the only source of definitive info we have

[past matrix]

the full thing with context being

the BIOCOM installation team is asking the project manager of Garganta for higher permissions of access for Biocom. He's hesitant on giving it the highest access, and the lead engineer tries to explain to him that he will have override codes to limit biocom just in case

[eternal talon]

Im not going to take your word for it.

[past matrix]

ok you literally just need to read the log

Ideally, BIOCOM would have access to everything at the highest level so the KSOs can be programmed with a minimal objective stack.

I have tried to explain this to Andrew Clinton, but he is reluctant to allow us the access we need. I have told him we can insertback doors if he doesn't want us to refactor the systems and explained we won't need any engineering support from him. I have also reiterated that he will have override codes to limit BIOCOM access in case of an emergency.

[eternal talon]

I've read the log a dozen fucking times

[past matrix]

so then how does it prove that Clinton is the only one with access codes

[eternal talon]

You can't decide what the definitive context is and what it is trying to say

You can NOT

[past matrix]

yes I can because it literally says what they're asking him for

[eternal talon]

Nobody except.for the devs can

[south lake]

Firstly, you need to chill the hell out. Second, is there a log definitively saying that BIOCOM was given highest security clearance for everything? If not, then it's clear Andrew never went for it, which means he was never given the override codes.

And given that WRDN still requires human authorization/input to access certain things in Garganta, my bet is on "no"

[solar nova]

My impression of the log myself was that the reason we're doing so much menial shit in-game, especially alarms, is that they never got the access they wanted.

And, further, it seemed like this log was meant to be a pretty clear reference to the gameplay.

[south lake]

Aye, if WRDN had unrestricted, total access to Garganta, why would it even need the players?

It'd be able to remotely back up everything that needed to be backed up, would have the ability to command actual KSOs with military hardware, among other things