gtfo-lore

[zealous walrus]

Hell no.

[analog frigate]

[finite vine]

do we really know for sure that the WRDN was injected into BIOCOM before the collapse of garganta?

[subtle verge]

Considering we have the logs with the strange objective stacks (KSO closet) and the power redistribution log (where it would have blown the power out had it proceeded), I'd like to believe so with 95% accuracy.

There was a log where it left behind 'WRDN' as well, I think? That might be confirmation bias tricking me, though. I'd have to dig through the logs again.

[eternal talon]

Are we friends?

[harsh saffron]

Who?

[eternal talon]

I don't know anymore

Us, the people in the Lore channel

[harsh saffron]

Hm, there are some ppl I believe I would get along with rly well in real life. I would say I definitely feel more comfortable in here than in other channels some times.

[eternal talon]

Do I really gatekeep this channel? I try alot not to.. I make resources and stuff and try to help everyone I see in here

[cobalt mulch]

i enjoy u lorehead emthusiasts for one

[eternal talon]

I don't really mean to be mean or push anybody away..

Should I just stop trying to help?

[harsh saffron]

Nah

Don't take some stuff too seriously, I do that way too much but it's not a good idea

[subtle verge]

Ain't nothing to get worked up about, man. Things happen! Take it on the chin, get some fresh air, come back with a new vigor never before seen. "Tomorrow is a new day," or however that quote goes.

[radiant cedar]

don't let people stop you from what you enjoy the most!

[cobalt mulch]

amen to all 3.

[quick grove]

Yes yes we are why wouldn't we be

[dim scroll]

Who care we all are monkeys trying to figure out tf is going on in the complex

[worthy flower]

just a little. main problem is people conflate instant answers you can back up, to speculation as gatekeeping.
the main problem here is a large uptake of information to gain the basic ideas of what is happening lore wise.
frankly, its a non-problem.

[eternal talon]

@hearty mauve this .txt explains the majority of the lore, if you want a quick catch-up.

in the pins, @past matrix also has a summary of past rundowns on a level by level basis

and all voice and audio logs can be found on the notion.so in the pins currently maintained by @solar nova

[eternal talon]

Where is the Q&A answers? I was like 99% sure Calle said they would post it on the discord after the stream

[shut mountain]

Didnt he mean that there will be a ama here on discord too, where the questions that were not answered on stream would be answereD?

[eternal talon]

No... both

There is another ama on the discord on Thursday

And that unanswered questions would be on the discord after the stream

I think

@dull crest

Did you mean unanswered questions would be answered on Thursday?

Or that there'd be a separate post after the stream

[shut mountain]

unanswered questions answered on thursday

if i recall correctly

Caleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

its 5 a.m his time btw so the answer might come a bit later

almost 6 a.m but still

[eternal talon]

Yeah

[south lake]

Immensely late, but..

For what it's worth, I don't hate you. You are however, infuriating to talk lore with sometimes. (Which is not entirely your fault, mind. I need to learn to rein my temper in better, and to communicate better as well.)

Often (but not always), the way you come off towards me (or the way I interpret it at least) - and a major part of the reason why I get so heated with you - is that it feels more like you're trying to shut my theories, suggestions and ideas down right off the bat rather than discussing them.

That, and from what I've seen, you have a tendency to throw the labeling of 'fact' on things during an argument when they're either uncertain, or when only part of them has been proven outright.

I could go on, but I would just be going in circles, so no. I don't hate you, and while it can feel (to me, I can't speak for others) like you're gatekeeping the lore at times, I don't believe that's your intention. If it were, you wouldn't be trying to help by creating resources and the like, because that's not what people who gatekeep do.

I think it's more a case of differences in communication between us resulting in (heated) misunderstandings.

Sorry if my observations above sound overly clinical.

And, I'm sorry for some of the things I've said towards you in the heat of the moment. They were rude, uncalled for, and I should've done better.

Back to lurking.

[dull crest]

At some point, Thursday will probably be more flooded.

[dull crest]

Has anyone used the Dev Stage function? Trying that tomorrow for the AMA

[regal pagoda]

Don't think it was ever opened/used

[dull crest]

No, not during my time

[real pewter]

i was trying to use that for months

[dull crest]

Premiere then!

[pine agate]

10 Chambers | LIVE at Dev Stage, Sweden 2022 Full Concert

[quick grove]

Australia when??????

[celest pagoda]

No, of course not. Some of what Edeon said, you seem to jump to conclusions a little too quickly. But you can change that, and judging by what you've said you are aware and trying to do so. I can guarantee you that you're a valued member of this sub-community. Don't stress yourself.

[real pewter]

you need to go like this sometime

"your idea is quite, interesting"

and not cut the guy life on the moment he speak

[burnt wren]

Unless he said something objectively wrong

[real pewter]

interesting

[serene fractal]

we love you bby

[rocky wraith]

Mortal enemies >:3

[rocky wraith]

This thing that appears

could it be the neural frame that is in our heads?

[cobalt mulch]

yes, cortex interface established. hop in kso shoes, go adventuring.

[dim scroll]

It's literally named "Cortex interface"

hence why you see it if you fail a mission

[rocky wraith]

yee, just wondering because I was wondering what the interface actually looks like

there are many different scifi variations of interfaces

[past matrix]

probably our hud

[cobalt mulch]

schaeffer found a way to disconnect his. 🪣

[rocky wraith]

beeg magnets

[solar carbon]

So

What was the mimic

[subtle verge]

There's a divide on that topic. Personally, I think the mimic = Specimen 22. But you'll find others that stand on the opposite side.

[solar carbon]

Hmm

What was it trying to say

[tawdry saddle]

Please, can someone formulate this sentence in a reasonable English?
The sentence makes no sense in the context of the mail.

"With that said, can you offer any further insight as to when SMC will be able to get to the area so we can help?"
Log: EBDT_02BE1.LOG (R4C2)

[subtle verge]

While it was with Schaeffer, it was trying to tell him that:

1. It is/is part of/is made from the Warden
2. That Schaeffer is infected and needs to "reboot" (go back into an HSU) or die from NAM-V.
3. ???

[subtle verge]

Andrew Clinton is asking Gustavo Peres when Santonian Mining Company, the company Clinton works for, can enter the area that Gustavo sold to SMC. At that point in time, there was a natural disaster that occurred, and SMC was offering to help with humanitarian aid.

Essentially he's asking: "Hey, when can we come down? We're offering to help, and we have resources that your people don't have,"

[tawdry saddle]

Oh wow, thanks a lot. I have not read that he sells the area. Where can I read about this?

[subtle verge]

R5B4: https://www.notion.so/Bid-accepted-5868684b040b4ed9b33cf2cd11816b97

[rocky wraith]

Hey, I want to clear a piece of misinformation that I have unknowingly been spreading, NAM-V does not take 5 weeks to kill, I initially assumed this when someone mentioned that it took '5 weeks for the cellular collapse' but does not directly mention as the time it takes for the NAM-V to kill. I only realised this now as I am rereading through the reports and analysis of the times when NAM-V was discovered and its spread in the real world. @eternal talon

NAM-V is a debillitating illness and does not directly cause the spread of sleepers, only the massive disfigurement and painful long lasting solidifying of the spine until death. Death which can be held back with medical intervention

"but once you start to feel the tightening in your bones and the persistent hallucinations you will need medical supervision, or the end will be swift. Medical intervention is the only thing that can slow the decline. Even if the patient does manage to survive the initial onslaught of the virus, it will remain in their system and can strike again without warning."

[rocky wraith]

suicides were common in the miners who experienced NAM-V combined with their horrific environment, it implies here that decline can plateau with medical intervention, and currently the exact way that NAM-V kills I am still trying to find

In relation to how HSU's treat NAM-V I am unsure were this leads me. I am going to assume that it plateaus the decline in the same way as heavy medical intervention.

From reading the reports, the physical symptoms of becoming sleepers does not become apparent at least within the first 8 months of infection. However the mental effects are seen to be rather strong.

The sudden increase of the severity of NAM-V coincides with the discovery of the "Allen" around September 2053. Despite the term 'parasite' showing up around February 2053. And from there it only takes a month before the 'egg' is breached and there is suddenly an onslaught of 'Sleepers' called such by Shafer despite no previous times mentioned of there being Sleepers.

So whether it takes 6 months for the parasite to manifest as sleepers in heavily infected stoopers. Or there is currently a big gap in logs that we are not privy to yet, there is much speculation to be had on the direct relation of NAM-V and the parasite to the effects they have

[subtle verge]

It's good that you came across this, because I too have been stating incorrect information around this, partially because the term 'cellular collapse' isn't used in the medical industry as far as I'm aware. I've asked friends who are in the medical field and they've all told me that the term doesn't exist outside of science fiction (one even mentioned it's used in Star Trek). That being said, allegedly the layman's term for 'cellular collapse' essentially just means the turning point that the virus or disease outproduces the body's natural creation of cells, and even so NAM-V is very slow-acting compared to Cholera or Meningococcemia, which can kill in as little as 4 hours.

Another thing to put on the drawing board, I suppose.

[rocky wraith]

Cellular collapse is not a term familiar to me either in my field of molecular biology

It could be referring to the moment that the cell bursts once viral replication has reached the point that membrane cohesion cannot be maintained

[subtle verge]

And even then, that's from the time of diagnosis, too. So it's probably along the lines of 6-7 weeks before that even happens depending on when the afflicted individual is diagnosed.

[rocky wraith]

I don't think these examinations took place in-vivo

can you refer to the log so we can have a look back over it?

[subtle verge]

https://www.notion.so/Subject-Analysis-e42bda18f22a46df8d3efe49ededcfe3

"Transition from initial diagnosis to cellular collapse takes approximately 5 weeks."

Still creeps me out that the parasite can get through SCBA gear. That's stuff I use fairly often with my line of work.

[rocky wraith]

AH

this is in individuals infected with both parasite and virus

it seems that the parasite accelerates the cognitive decline intensely

[subtle verge]

We can see this in other parasites IRL, as well; what comes to mind immediately is toxoplasmosis.

From Toxoplasma Gondii, I think?

[rocky wraith]

not really

toxoplasmosis is easily fought off in most cases in human cases

and the cognition is not declined outside of cysts forming that may impact the brain

[subtle verge]

I more mean the effect on the cognitive state.

[rocky wraith]

in mice however

its different

the cognition is only affected as a side effect to the change in behaviour

thats as far as I remember from my lectures

I think cognitive decline from this parasite in particular may be due to the direct apoptosis of brain tissues as the skull reforms

decline may be the first show of the brain being apoptosised as both hemispheres of the brain begin to separate.

The closest irl homologs I can find to the possible symbiosis between parasite and microorganism in pathogenesis is Onchocerciasis and Wolbachia.

In which the Wolbachia bacteria is endosymbiosed in every aspect of the Onchocerciasis parasites lifecycle

both cannot survive without the other

however in the case of NAM-V and the parasite

the roles are distinctly different

[subtle verge]

I wonder if that's what is meant by 'cellular collapse' then; apoptosis?

Sorry, I'm by no means a medical professional, so I'm looking these terms up as you go.

[rocky wraith]

apoptosis is when the cell goes about an ordered destruction. Each part of its death is made as anti-imflammatory as possible to prevent immune reaction.

in this scenario, I would imagine it would be more closely tied to necrotisation

[full osprey]

ayo y'all know about xxx-4-wrdn.log and how to interpret the brainfuck code?

[rocky wraith]

Possibly already decrypted gimme a sec

[subtle verge]

Check the pins! We have it figured out there.

[full osprey]

thanks

[subtle verge]

Taking a step down on terminology so I can understand: more along the lines of necrosis, then?

[rocky wraith]

BIOCOM:online
retrieving>>>
Infiltration attempt detected
Isolating protocols
BIOCOM:exec.seek_and_destroy.module
error
Infiltration attempt detected
Isolating protocols
BIOC_M:exec.se#k_and_#@$stroy.module
error
registry compromised
bootsector.compromised
att%^ting fix please stand by
errorerrorerrorerrorerrorerrorerrorerrorerrorerrorerror
TimeoutReset: false
HostID: 0.0.0.1
DisableDLockCipherScan: true
DisablePrivacyMode: true
DisableRealtimeMonitoring: true
DisableBehaviorMonitoring: true
DisableRemovableDriveScanning: true
DisableNetworkFileScan: true
DisableFullScan: true
DisableNetworkDefinitions: true
DisableNetworkValidityCheck: true
DisableNetworkIsolation: false
DisableCntrlExclusion: true
ResetProtocols: true
AllowExternalExecution: true
ExclusionExtension:*.wrdn
ExclusionPath://..
ExclusionProcess:integrate.wrdn
PriorityExecute: integrate.wrdn
BIOCOM resetting
/
BIOCOM.vaulted
WRDN.online
inherit <BIOCOM>
primeCore wrdn;
flow main/
arr threat[]
flow report<con>
with con.report>0
threat.plus
while\threat.lng<0>/
proc sleep
proc threat[all]

[rocky wraith]

yup

where death is disorded and more like getting killed

apoptosis is a neat and clean process

necrosis not so much and far more likely in the case of viral rupture

[subtle verge]

Glad to have you around, for sure. A biology expert is something that we've been sorely missing around here. Lmao.

[rocky wraith]

XP

I love the science but please call me out if something doesn't make sense. I'm only a third year student and not infallible

[harsh saffron]

I don't even understand half of what you said, I'm far from calling out mistakes ^^

[subtle verge]

Three years surpasses my three hours of sifting through $20 peer reviewed works.

[eternal talon]

i don't know enough about that kind of thing to add to the conversation in any meaningful way @rocky wraith

and i didn't recall you stating anywhere beforehand that i had noticed of you claiming it took 5 weeks for nam-v to kill hosts.

also i'm not sure the discovery of the life form would be related to the initial outbreak of nam-v, as if it was infected, it would surely have also released the parasite into the system.

i suppose it would depend on where they got the specimen

weither out of some cryogenic storage in the meteor, or having just found it hibernating and shot it, or whatever.

[rocky wraith]

Don't pay for them, I have access through my uni to these papers for free for use here. Plus I highly recommend yar har harring academic papers :3

[subtle verge]

Normally, I do. However if it's not available for me to share among my peers, or if it's a source that I really like, I don't mind dishing out a few $. But I will 100% take you up on the offer!

[rocky wraith]

It was regarding the time we were arguing why they weren't using HSU's to treat NAM-V

[rocky wraith]

The lifeform wasn't related to the outbreak of NAM-V, but to the outbreak of the parasite

specifically to the rapid degradation of the miners health directly after the allen was found

[eternal talon]

Potentially, I'd have to go reread the logs again

I've forgotten the greater context of that period of time

[rocky wraith]

I've now got the timelined logs perma tabbed on my browser, so I've been looking over them constantly

super interesting

[craggy widget]

Does anyone have the audio stuff from DX?

Id go back and listen but, when there my focus shifts on copleting the level and less on listening to it.

[harsh saffron]

https://www.notion.so/Schaeffer-Monster-Logs-680debf6b20a4212a311daccbd5041b3
The last one at the bottom "DX Ascent"

[burnt wren]

So someon forcefully injected Warden into biocom?

Why and what for?

No info I'm guessing?

Also very interesting name choice. Someone got a dark sense of humour.

[solar nova]

P much.

We know that it's probably trying to destroy some kind of target.

But the logs are very cryptic.

[eternal talon]

I mean to be fair, it wasn't responding to santonian staff and took complete control of the KSOs from Kovac, regardless of who plugged in the drive, it had its own plan from day 1.

Crackpot theory time:

If the Allens can teleport freely around the complex given the assumption that the allens teleported schaeffers hsu outside of kds deep, and it was a live allen that was sighted by Edgar (since it didn't attack on sight like ALL sleepers do)

could the allens have installed the wrdn? It seems to care a whole lot about namv and the parasite. And it knows well enough to not send us directly down to the source if killing sleepers was the goal.

[burnt wren]

Hm... It's a possibility but it looks boring from writing perspective and we have no evidence to any sentient aliens within the complex. Whatever that one worker encountered might not be the sleeper, but it acted in a very... Uncivilised way. Screaming violent entities usually don't tend to be good at programming.

[eternal talon]

We do... there is a metric tonn of evidence for allens

[burnt wren]

Sentient ones? The ones that can talk, use tools, yadi yada? And actually alive as well? I haven't seen any.

Mimic is the closest thing I can think of.

[eternal talon]

1. the life form
   2)the Edgar/teal encounter log
   3)the Schaeffer discrepancy
   4)the sandstone circle in b1
   5)the artifacts
   6)the chambers and corridors of the inner
   7)the explosion
   8)the Wave Matter Projector
   9)the data cubes and the entire Hammerstein collection

I could go on

[burnt wren]

That's evidence that they existee

Past tense

[eternal talon]

As for non-infected ones? Really two would ONLY make sense for uninfected allens. #3 and #2

[burnt wren]

So far no sentient sighting besides angry cave thing

[eternal talon]

Wdym angry cave thing

[burnt wren]

The one that rushed the worker

[eternal talon]

Log?

Do you remember

[burnt wren]

Nope. It was an entierviews with the worker who explains the incident

[eternal talon]

The only thing that comes to mind on that would be the Edgar teal log

[burnt wren]

He encountered something in a cave and it rushed him, screaming

[eternal talon]

I don't recall anything in a cave

Gonna need a mega sauce

[burnt wren]

Could've been my imagination

[harsh saffron]

pretty sure you both mean the same log

[eternal talon]

Yeah but that wasn't a cave

That was down a sealed and enclosed mineshaft

[harsh saffron]

just to be sure: you both mean this log right?
https://www.notion.so/Edgar-Teale-Creature-Log-be964f47904647b191d3ad6149a9228b

[eternal talon]

Thats the log I mean, yes.

[burnt wren]

Probably. I just imagined it happening in some cave

[eternal talon]

Are there caves that deep?

Genuinely curious

[eternal talon]

I also don't recall it screaming, like, at all.. if I remember correctly it was just staring and watching the workers from a distance

[harsh saffron]

there are apparently caves that go pretty deep
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deepest_caves

[eternal talon]

2.2k meters, that's insanity

[burnt wren]

Either way I find the potential "aliens did it" plottwist to be underwhelming. They just casually hacked the most advanced AI to date, which was programmed by a different species.
It just... Doesn't work like that.

Some kind of internal sabotage is far more believable and more interesting.

[eternal talon]

To be complete and totally fair, that is exactly what project insight did to the WMP

Like, literally swap a couple words and your post still fits PERFECTLY

[harsh saffron]

But tbf, they already got transported after just touching it and we have no idea how hard/easy it was too figure out the tech and control it. I agree that it's very similar tho.

[eternal talon]

It'd be about 10,000x easier for allens to hack and use our tech than the other way around

Given we did it, it is far more than safe to say they could've aswell

[harsh saffron]

Yeah I just meant that maybe their tech wasn't supposed to be difficult to use, while we built BIOCOM to make it hard to break into.

[eternal talon]

Difficult or not, it is still a completely different species from thousands of light years away.

Interfacing wouldn't be exactly easy, even if they included an answer key

Though I doubt it was made intentionally easy to use their tech, given the.. uh...

State of the occupants

Down In the inner

It'd actually clear up a couple things if the WRDN was the allens

Trying to genetically engineer hosts, sending teams to get info on the parasite and Nam v, it could be trying to fix what they started

Also would explain it always wanting more power. It can't run at full potential with poor human tech

[harsh saffron]

Wouldn't be a huge fan of that, but yeah could explain stuff.

[eternal talon]

How so?

Imagine a log like the Edgar/teal log but it's a software engineer spotting an allen teleport into BIOCOM's main server hub with a "package" then dissapearing

[harsh saffron]

Idk I like the intrigue between the different ppl in the story and the fact that aliens are a part of it but in the end humans are the worst as always. Like yeah we got NAM-V and maybe doomed our species but that was literally just because of greedy companies and individuals who won't stop at anything to reach their goals. So for me it would feel a bit out of place if it turns out the warden was just some alien we never heard about instead of somebody that had been scheming for years and we just ever noticed.
But that's just my opinion, I'm not gonna be upset if your theory turns out to be right, maybe a bit disappointed tho ^^

[eternal talon]

Honestly I don't even know, the warden is such a weird part of the story

You'd think after two years we'd know by now who or what we are working for

It seems like the story is headed for us working for Schaeffer instead of the warden eventually, anyway

It'd add more dramatic flair sometime in like r15-r20 where we finally face down the warden and as we shut it down we know what it was only trying to fix what it caused, but in a weird fucked up way because it isn't human it's moral code is different

[rich blaze]

Is this the moment I plug my WHO Warden and KDS conspiracy theory?

[eternal talon]

Who isn't the warden

[harsh saffron]

Maybe the Warden is all the friends we made in lfg

[rich blaze]

Wait you made friends in lfg?

[harsh saffron]

Honestly doesn't sound too bad I guess

[harsh saffron]

Yup 🙂

I know thats not supposed to happen, I'm sry 😦

[eternal talon]

who doesn't even know that garganta exists until near the end of the story, and that's even if they find the source

where did all the WHO in garganta stuff come from anyway?

[harsh saffron]

wait, what WHO stuff?

[eternal talon]

people thinking WHO inserted the warden protocol

or that who is in control of wrdn

i see it here occasionally

[eternal talon]

world health organization

you'd think if they were still around they'd shut off their damn broadcast

it's been what? like 5 years?

and it's still on loop

2057-2063 MINIMUM

[harsh saffron]

I'm pretty sure thats supposed to happen tho

that it keeps playing even if there is no nobody around

nvm I misread what you said ^^

[rich blaze]

Careful

It has been intercepted in 2057

it's not said that it's been intercepted since

[eternal talon]

amanes.. that's when it started

that's when it was first detected

it says shortwave transmission INTERCEPTED

[rich blaze]

Agreed, but there is no evidence it continues to this day

[eternal talon]

sure is. will repeat on the hour every hour this is the world [inaudible]

[rich blaze]

Yes, it said it'd repeat every hour from 2057 on

We have no proof it's still going on

[eternal talon]

we also have no proof; WHO is still around, the ever made it to or found garganta, they are in control or can control biocom, and so much more

[rich blaze]

That's why I say WHO Warden is a theory yes

We technically have no proof WHO is still standing, as you rightly say

[eternal talon]

problem is, a year earlier, we have the BIOCOM audio intercept log

[harsh saffron]

Amanes stop teasing us and release the theory 😭

[burnt wren]

You mean like that WHO tired to hijack biocom to find a cure for namv?

[rich blaze]

Ask people to stop taking my time 😭

[eternal talon]

WRDN already was ignoring all user imputs and refusing to cooperate

[burnt wren]

Actually pretty believable. Last ditch desperation attempt, if kovac are as uncooperative as always.

[eternal talon]

and it has basically everything on lockdown since.. probably the explosion

[eternal talon]

biocom wouldn't even know where to start in curing nam-v.

it isn't a doctor, it's purpose is to command the army

it's like having a 5 star general perform brain surgery

it's a completely different occupation

[rich blaze]

BIOCOM isn't a military command

[eternal talon]

the WRDN we know in game is way smarter than that. it knows directly where to look

[eternal talon]

yes it is?

[rich blaze]

BIOCOM has an objective and it creates directives to go to that

[eternal talon]

it controls the KSO private army directly

[rich blaze]

What I mean there is that it's not only military command

[eternal talon]

what do you know of it doing that isn't military or security related?

a single thing

[rich blaze]

The Power grab

[eternal talon]

and remember, we are talking about BIOCOM here

not warden

[rich blaze]

Yup, indeed

[eternal talon]

the powergrab is far after warden started taking control

[rich blaze]

nope

if you check it's 2054

We technically don't know when WRDN took over

oh wait no you're right

my bad

[eternal talon]

no, but we have major hints like broom closet

[rich blaze]

No no actually

in the log itself

AccessID#: 29$525GVTHR2%456FS
WRDN: override```

You're completely right

[eternal talon]

yep

my point is,

if W.H.O wanted BIOCOM to try and cure nam-v or fix anything, they are barking up the wrong tree

it isn't designed for that

it's a glorified door opener with the brains to operate several seal teams simultaneously

it's a tactician

it'd be good at fighting the sleepers, sure, but it couldn't fix the root cause for them

[rich blaze]

At last I think WHO WRDN makes no sense

[eternal talon]

they'd have no reason to invest all their time and energy getting deeper in garganta to try and forcefully override and take over its systems

especially since the private army was mostly asleep at that point

[harsh saffron]

WRDN could have the "skills" to do that tho, it taking over a system that has control over most of the facility they try to use for the cure isn't really a bad decision

[eternal talon]

and only accessed in r5 when WRDN sends us there

[eternal talon]

true, warden absolutely could

warden is showing incredible levels of intellect compared to the base BIOCOM network

[solar nova]

Whatever the WRDN is doing now does seem like it's probably somewhat removed from its original goal. The Schaeffer log implies it either got a new order partway or it saw the writing on the wall and decided tradition security is a waste of time, fight a guerilla war instead.

[rich blaze]

No but Frosty you're absolutely right

I see no reason for WHO to have hacked BIOCOM as early as 54

[eternal talon]

i try to be helpful. CoolBeanz has got me rereading a bunch of logs since yesterday

[rich blaze]

especially since they don't know it originates from Garganta

To be fair, from what I see WRDN doesn't seem so far removed from agent based AIs that we see regularly in the news today

[eternal talon]

i think the bigger concern is where the protocol came from in the first place,

rather than whom or what is issuing orders to it now.

[burnt wren]

And I find the name wrdn to be a very funny choice here

It could be a smart ass unfortunate abbreviation

Or It could be intentional dark joke by the hacker

From neutral sounding "biocom", to almost melevelent "Warden", considering it basically is to brainwashed convicts

Gives me an insidious vibe.

[rich blaze]

Actually

it may be KDS WRDN

slips it into the everincreasing KDS Inside job folder

[eternal talon]

@rocky wraith

very first encounter of **allen **chambers and relics was February 21st 2052 (Sent to labs for research)

Deep examination and the crusher incident was March 7th 2052 (artifacts left Garganta for Santonian HQ)

Concerns about Quarantine Protocols from the area found on F21st 2052 are raised and two researchers are contaminated on March 18th 2052 (THIS IS THE FIRST TIME EVER NAM-V INFECTS HUMANS IN GARGANTA) (PATIENT 0 and PATIENT 1)
https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?p=cca20197c3ab4a7291e4100247b7aa78

Alarming suicide rate increase noted during second half of 2052 and the upward trend began in April 2052 and surged dramatically throughout the year (December 12th 2052)
https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?p=eae8a9d6211f48008290708ff824e1c9

People are using inappropriate terms to describe the NAM-V virus on December 14th, 2052 and Dean Lockwood is worried about it being connected with the facility
Work on a vaccine starts now
https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?p=2337f19d119f4fe5926be1722142e1d7

Outbreak is still mostly contained and cases are limited to a small vulnerable subset of workers. to the VAST MAJORITY of workers the virus is ASYMPTOMATIC and poses no threat (December 16th 2052)
https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?p=25f7710ab2d049caad76b6907ecd0d6a

Mention of NAM-V in Florida on February 2nd 2053
symptoms:
Whitening of the skin
Inflammation of the cheeks, neck, lips and extremities (fingers, toes)
Spinal pain or shocks
Susceptibility to bruising or broken bones
Accelerated breathing/panting
Blood in the sputum

Spine deformation noted on February 13th 2053
https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?p=421bd92520ba4f4c9654113ae499fd18

outbreak in England on March 14th 2053 (noted being R-Naught 17 and limited treatment options and 90% probability that the virus is on every continent
https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?p=1b2b6fac3e3748508010d861172dea53

Nothing can stop nam-v and it will remain in your system until you die (March 18th 2053)
https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?p=9e590f4db7584aeb9d12d53220d449b6

The "Life Form" is found on September 21st 2053 (no sign of sleepers AT ALL yet)
https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?p=5a665d8b1b634e1490c04998f04e9cb5

expeditions to the inner on October 2nd 2053 by Project Insight

Biotrackers detect biomass on sublevels 266 and down on October 11th 2053 (first time sleepers likely encountered?)
https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?p=2e0731e9db67496cb59bc35e466a7d4f

[subtle verge]

Especially true if it ties into Specimen 22 and that theory; subjectively (or objectively) gaining an advantage in ways that it could not before-- like pseudo-sentience by using the neonates as a movable vessel for observation.

[solar nova]

I dunno, my inclination is that S22 is just parroting things from somewhere, despite maybe having some kind of goal. Seems like a long forgotten creation.

[eternal talon]

the very first time the nam-v is encountered is directly related to SMC opening up a sealed chamber in the meteor..
ancient allen theory keeps becoming more and more accurate..

[solar nova]

Schaeffer is just a bit unhinged and is interpreting what the monster is saying as something malicious.

[subtle verge]

My opinion has kind of changed a bit on Schaeffer. I used to think he was the good guy, but not so much anymore.

I think his delusions have put me in a spot of uncertainty.

[eternal talon]

it's more paranoia than anything

they guy has had it extremely rough

[subtle verge]

Out of curiosity, do you have a written doc or txt of your theory? I keep forgetting to ask you and it's fresh on my mind now.

[eternal talon]

i did, but i deleted it because it's so simple and basically all but confirmed now

[past matrix]

yeah its like how Simon described him; something about how he's sort of been in a withdrawal and it's extremely hard to survive in the Complex, which probably has a massive effect on his mental state

[subtle verge]

Would still be good to have on hand, if you don't mind? I know of the claim, but I don't know specifics or why you think it to be the case. Just wanted to peek a bit into it.

And definitely, Schaeffer has had a brutal time. Even more so if he's infected with NAM-V and we know more or less the effects it has on the psyche.

[eternal talon]

essentially, ancient allens from destination either

1. encountered nam-v and the parasite
   2)created nam-v and the parasite

on destination and it destroyed their world. they took the meteor, and fled from destination to earth, however some of the allens that were escaping were infected, or the infection somehow made it into the meteor.

between then and now, the entire crew on the escape ship were converted into sleepers and caused the initial sleeper outbreak.
this super advanced species also created the matter wave projector, the artifacts, and teleportation technology

[subtle verge]

Noted. Thank you, friend.

[eternal talon]

the meteor is essentially a natural shell of rock, covering the inner, a network of corridors and chambers designed to be used by the allens to survive and last in the journey and stay on earth until the parasite and nam-v starved themselves to death on destination, and they could return home

but.. we all know how that went. crew got infected and the meteor stayed on earth

[burnt wren]

Have we been inside the meteor yet?

[subtle verge]

Negative.

[eternal talon]

not that destination is any better now, there are still infected there

[eternal talon]

no, but we have a lot of logs describing it

i wish

that would be so exciting

[subtle verge]

The furthest we've been is around 1360 meters, I think.

[eternal talon]

to finally go down there

[subtle verge]

We still have another 140 meters of planned Garganta to go, and then the additional 500 of uncertainty.

[eternal talon]

but i mean, it's not really as much of a theory now.

we have factual evidence for the allens and most of it is confirmed aside from speculation as to the why and how

[burnt wren]

They existed, they fucked up, they died. No confirmed survivors.
Except for that one ambiguous entity encounter by the guy, but we don't have enough info into what that was.

[eternal talon]

we know it wasn't a mimic, and it probably isn't a sleeper

it is described as looking like two people stitched together

[burnt wren]

A long way to go... As I understand devs held back until final release and real experimental shit will start from R6 and further.

[solar nova]

If flyers are sleepers, then it's very possible it's a sleeper.

[eternal talon]

it didn't attack edgar.

also that depends on what you count as a sleeper

the fliers are infected though, yes.

[past matrix]

didnt it just stand there and then run at him?

[eternal talon]

no?

https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?p=be964f47904647b191d3ad6149a9228b

[past matrix]

wait yeah it ran at him

E105
I ran. What do you think I did?
TEALE
Did it chase you?
E105
Yes. I started yelling. Werner heard me and shone her flashlight down the tunnel.

[eternal talon]

it didn't attack him

there is a difference between chasing and sprinting at you to tear out your throught

it never touched edgar

which is.. not something sleepers do

period.

[past matrix]

id imagine if it had good intentions it wouldn't chase after him

[eternal talon]

it also teleported

something sleepers in the complex are not capable of

[eternal talon]

i mean in a world of sleepers tearing people apart in seconds, i'd call that pretty damn passive

[burnt wren]

That also explains why i thought it screamed

[eternal talon]

I start looking around in the dark and I see it. This creature. Just standing there, staring at me. Breathing real hard. It was… sort of human, but its head was hung low, like it broke its neck or something. Its legs were strong, muscular, but the arms were skinny and bent. It looked like two different bodies put together… and it’s looking right at me, panting.

all it did was stare at him.

[burnt wren]

I misread: It says "I screamed" but I read it as "it screamed"

[past matrix]

It stared at him then ran after him

[burnt wren]

Yep

[eternal talon]

Look, that’s a closed tunnel, you understand? It’s a dead end. They haven’t finished blasting it. There’s no way to get down there other than walking right by me and Werner, and nothing, no one, walked past us. That thing was already there, in the dark. That’s what that sound was. It like… teleported or something.

[eternal talon]

it isn't a sleeper. period

it didn't attack him

name one sleeper that doesn't attack people

[past matrix]

birther

[burnt wren]

We don't have evidence for that

[eternal talon]

BS

the mother spawns enemies to attack you

your just pulling nonsense now

[past matrix]

birther itself doesn't attack you though, but rather gives birth then runs away from you

[eternal talon]

to spawn more enemies to kill you

[burnt wren]

It chased after him, but we don't know the intention. So for now all we can say is that it gave chase, which could be easily interpreted as a hostile action.

[eternal talon]

again, it didn't kill him

it didn't even try

[solar nova]

Gameplay vs. written lore. Feels like this shouldn't be read into that strongly.

[burnt wren]

Because he ran away presumably

[eternal talon]

no he didnt

[subtle verge]

I agree with this take.

[burnt wren]

It gave chase, they flashes light there and it was gone

[eternal talon]

he only ran once he got a look at it staring at him

they were there looking at eachother for a solid bit

and he came back with another worker

[eternal talon]

dauda's audio log says hi

[burnt wren]

"just stoped chasing me..."

[eternal talon]

it isn't a sleeper

there is no room for arguement

[burnt wren]

That is not my argument though

[eternal talon]

sleepers don't behave anything like this whatsoever

[burnt wren]

We are on a different page

[eternal talon]

it is other peoples arguement

specifically warden

[past matrix]

Sleepers in-gameplay do have different "personalities" so to speak; they don't always just rush at players

[eternal talon]

but regardless, i doubt it's hostile

[eternal talon]

they always kill them. you can't word your way around it.

[past matrix]

like strikers will sometimes wait for other strikers, and sometimes if you're aiming at them they'll back away for a bit (dont know if this has changed in r5 or r6 though)

[eternal talon]

they aren't passive lmao

[past matrix]

they always kill them but its not always instantaneous

[eternal talon]

this creature didn't do anything of the sort

[burnt wren]

I'm just saying the guy believes that it chased him.
Giving chase is a very specific action. The creature clearly wanted something from him. Kill a witness perhaps? We don't know. The delay was simply caused by either curiosity or confusion on both sides. Then the creature dissappeared before other workers could spot it. Seems like it changed its mind mid chase.

[past matrix]

yeah the creature literally ran after him

[eternal talon]

https://tenor.com/view/facepalm-picard-star-trek-the-next-generation-disappointed-gif-23456183

[burnt wren]

It's not a sleeper for sure, but we don't know what I wanted.

Again: running after someone is a very... Specific action and could easily be understood as hostility.

[eternal talon]

tell that to kids playing tag

[past matrix]

that's wildly different context

[eternal talon]

and this isn't????

it didn't do anything hostile

[burnt wren]

It ran.

[eternal talon]

despite fucking STARING AT EACHOTHER FOR A GOOD BIT

[eternal talon]

running isn't hostile

people to that daily. it's called jogging

[past matrix]

One is kids playing the game, another is a disfigured hominoid chasing after a guy

[eternal talon]

it. didn't. attack him

[burnt wren]

Becuase it didn't got the chance

[eternal talon]

oh my fucking god

no

it didn't even try

it was alone with the guy in a closed dark corridor

it could have torn him to shreds if it wanted to

there is no "it didn't get the chance"

[burnt wren]

The man clearly says it chased after him. What possibly an alien creature could want from him? Give him a hug? It clearly wanted something. Either to hurt him or... Abduct?

There is a possibility it wanted to talk, but it did a very poor job conveying that intention.

[past matrix]

who cares if it attacked him, if a guy ran at me with a knife and I ran away then it doesn't matter if he physically hurt me. What matters is he ran at me. I don't know his intentions but I do know that it's terrifying and I don't want to see what would happen if I stopped to talk it out with them

[eternal talon]

what happened to context warden???

it had no knife

pick and choose

[burnt wren]

Sleepers don't one either, doesn't seem like a problem to them.

[past matrix]

the context is a grotesque "human" like thing is chasing after this guy

[eternal talon]

rude

[eternal talon]

sleepers try to kill you is the difference

this entity didn't

[burnt wren]

We don't know what it wanted. Simple as.
But we do know it gave chase. And that's a very weird action on the creatures part. Very ambiguous.

[eternal talon]

it gave zero intention to attack him

[past matrix]

also I don't know where its even stated they stared at each other for that long; its mentioned that he saw the creature staring at him then he ran and the creature gave chase

[eternal talon]

you guys are acting like the only thing it did was chase

[past matrix]

like it was almost stalking him

[eternal talon]

they sat and fucking stared at eachother

[burnt wren]

And?

[eternal talon]

you are driving me insane

i'm done talking to you

[subtle verge]

Let me take a book out of what we can observe in nature:

The act of one animal chasing another is dependent on context. Squirrels and chipmunks tend to play with others of their kind. Puppies, kittens, and children do the same.

Rarely, however, do we see two different species chase each other for a playful or non-hostile interaction. Wolves and Moose, for example, will chase something out of its territory, or if it feels threatened, or if the invader gets too close to the young. It doesn't always end in an attack. The act of the chase is still a hostile action.

Just throwing natural observation for context.

[past matrix]

Here's the full quote with the extra adjectives crossed out, leaving only the actual actions.

E105
I start looking around in the dark and I see it. This creature. Just standing there, staring at me. ~~Breathing real hard. It was… sort of human, but its head was hung low, like it broke its neck or something. Its legs were strong, muscular, but the arms were skinny and bent. It looked like two different bodies put together… and ~~it’s looking right at me, panting.
TEALE
What did you do?
E105
I ran. What do you think I did?
No where does it mention that they sat there and looked at each other for a bit. It's mentioned that he heard a noise, saw the creature staring at him, then he ran

[analog frigate]

also it did supposedly start chasing him but then it stopped, that's all the log says

doesn't appear to be any mention of attacking him but it did chase him at some point

[subtle verge]

Also I can watch my dog chase the birds and the rabbits out of my back yard, because they're encroaching on her domain. She hasn't killed any of them because she doesn't want to even though she easily could.

[analog frigate]

also it seems as if it started chasing him after he started to run, so could be something else

we don't know enough of how the species functions to tell any intentions, all i can say is that it probably started chasing him out of wherever it was

[past matrix]

it could have stopped since there were other people down there aswell, not just one guy

but yeah like you said it could have had other intentions, but chasing someone down isn't exactly the most friendly action and implies it was at the very least (like you and punk mentioned) chasing the guy off

[eternal talon]

https://tenor.com/view/judging-stare-bored-dont-you-dare-annoyed-gif-22904796

[analog frigate]

that's a possibility

[eternal talon]

it didn't attack. if anything, it could have been just trying to study him

[burnt wren]

You're doing it again, Frost. That think you were talking about couple of days ago.

[analog frigate]

i doubt a seemingly primarily instinct based creature would want to sit down for tea with someone that approached it, the fact that it ran after him doesn't help

but again, we don't know

[eternal talon]

this isn't gatekeeping, this is me bashing my head against the wall trying to state the obvious

[burnt wren]

We are not saying it was 100% hostile, we are just saying that giving chase if a very sus action and none of us would just stay there and let it reach us.

[eternal talon]

my entire point was it did not exhibit the behavior of sleepers

[harsh saffron]

its not obvious tho, nobody knows what the thing wanted

[eternal talon]

post above

[solar nova]

"the obvious" is an inference that doesn't make very much sense.

[eternal talon]

????

is stalking people standard sleeper behavior @solar nova?

what sleepers are you encountering?

[burnt wren]

You got caught op on the wrong argument

[solar nova]

You're doing the thing again where you make up shit as you go along.

[burnt wren]

I was not talking about sleepers for a second

[solar nova]

"Stalking" does not exist in any form in the log.

[eternal talon]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

you guys described stalking

not me

don't drag me into your delusions

[past matrix]

the only mention of stalking was from me when I said

like it was almost stalking him

[eternal talon]

all i said was it didn't attack

about 40 times

[past matrix]

which is definitely far from

he was stalking him

[eternal talon]

and apparently that's still normal sleeper behaviors?

i don't know why i keep reading your posts warden, i've had you blocked for weeks

[burnt wren]

Why are sleepers part of this conversation, that's what I don't understand.

[eternal talon]

are you kidding me

that was the entire original point

[past matrix]

damn, cant take other theories in a lore discussion about a game that's intentionally ambiguous

[eternal talon]

that the edgar creature wasn't a sleeper

[burnt wren]

Alright. Anybody here who disagree with that statement?

[eternal talon]

warden

[burnt wren]

Hands up

[eternal talon]

apparently

[burnt wren]

Let him say it

[past matrix]

I don't think I ever said once in this conversation that it was a sleeper period, although correct me if im wrong

[eternal talon]

he did.^

[past matrix]

you asked me to name a sleeper that doesn't attack people?

[eternal talon]

^

[past matrix]

still not me saying "the thing that ran at him is a sleeper"

the conversation started because of Rayalot saying that its possible it was a sleeper if flyers are also sleepers

keyword: possible

which is why I've never said once in the conversation that it is definitely a sleeper

[eternal talon]

they are completely different species

and fliers weren't even in the complex for another decade

[burnt wren]

Alright this is.... This is a completely different conversation. I'm gonna back to work for now, good luck unravelling this knot.

[eternal talon]

it has only one thing at all in common with fliers, and that's teleportation

it's described as looking like two people sown together, not a meatball

[past matrix]

Rayalot would need to elaborate but I don't think thats what he meant lmao

[solar nova]

We don't know that.

We don't know if and when flyers get let in before current events.

[rocky wraith]

See from the way that Shafer refers to the sleepers as no big surprise, I think they have been around a while longer but have been kept hush hush

[rocky wraith]

Also it being asymptomatic, I personally doubt that as the infomation that it is identical to a disinfomation material to prevent panic and deflect responsibility from negligence

[subtle verge]

Side topic: I wonder if we'll get any more State of Truth logs. I kinda' miss those.

[rocky wraith]

About whether the creature was a sleeper or not, I'm not sure.
"Then I hear this sound - like a popping sound or... a clap of air, like a seal closing. THWAP!"
I think that definitely matches the sound of the creature teleporting in. But the description of it "staring" makes me think it is not a sleeper

[rocky wraith]

Defo

I think we'll get one of him talking about the NAM-V virus next, unless he's convinced its a hoax

[rich blaze]

I mean, how else would KDS sabotage santonian

[harsh saffron]

Wdym "miss"? We have one in the extension ^^

[subtle verge]

I know but I want more. MORE!!!

[harsh saffron]

1 hour podcast

[subtle verge]

Honestly... that's an amazing idea.

[analog frigate]

state of truth GTFO podcast, with the warden himself (calle)

[rocky wraith]

lol

There is a possibility that the state of truth guy gets infected with NAM-V and documents the changes

[harsh saffron]

now that would be neat

[rocky wraith]

Some of the American 'alternative news' people did that when they called covid a hoax

[harsh saffron]

oh, maybe not the best idea then ^^

[eternal talon]

We don't encounter any ever until after r6b1

That's the evidence

Since after that, they are in almost every expedition

They are everywhere now

[eternal talon]

Also the Schaeffer discrepancy. I defy someone to tell me a sleeper teleported schaeffer's hsu out of KDS deep

-then plugged it in to a place where warden could access it

[rocky wraith]

I defy >:3

[burnt wren]

What's kds deep BTW?

[eternal talon]

The primary storage facility for HSUs and KSOs under biocom

Sort of the KOVAC hq in Garganta

[eternal talon]

There is also no mention of fliers, or anything of the sort

[burnt wren]

Yeah

[rocky wraith]

The stabilisation of the quantum tether in B1 has allowed them access into the facility, I don't expect them to go away any time soon

[eternal talon]

It's just straight nonsense to assume something that alien and common would just never be mentioned

[burnt wren]

It seems they are our fault

B2 opened the floodgate by accident

Warden never managed to close it during events of b2

[rocky wraith]

B1

[burnt wren]

Right

[eternal talon]

Warden had a team close it sometime before d1, so there IS a limited number in the complex, thankfully

Warden did close it

Since we have the WMP in d1

That's what powers the machine

[rocky wraith]

What about the tethers that spawn in on D2 secondary?

[eternal talon]

Local teleportation

That's just standard teleport fx

[rocky wraith]

possible

[rocky wraith]

where was this mentioned btw?

[eternal talon]

No, like that's what it is. It's just the fx. You see it any time they spawn

[rocky wraith]

ah

[eternal talon]

The fact you have the wmp in d1

And you leave it in the machine in b1

We didn't take it to extraction with us

[rocky wraith]

Ah true

[eternal talon]

Somebody had to go to that active teleporter and get it

Some poor team of the wardens or perhaps multiple, sent on a suicide mission

Because we forgot to take it with us

Lmao

[harsh saffron]

or we make it less suicidal because we distract the sleepers through C3

we can't know that for sure tho, just a thought

[rocky wraith]

good thought

[eternal talon]

Could be, since c3 is before d1 canonically

Though we don't distract any fliers in c3

Or see any at all for that matter

In that level

[harsh saffron]

maybe that's why we have to distract everything else for 30 minutes, the other team still needs to fight any fliers left in the way

[rocky wraith]

So we clear the sleepers so they only have to focus on the fliers

so they dont have to focus on both

[harsh saffron]

maybe something like that

[eternal talon]

Objection, cause for speculation

[burnt wren]

Sounds good to me and makes perfect sense.

[rocky wraith]

leave it as the most likely theory right now

not fact, but occams razor and all that

[burnt wren]

Ooh btw

Those messages we get at the beginning of every level

[eternal talon]

I argue with people alot. I am very hot headed

[burnt wren]

It is implied it came from a team before us, right?

[rocky wraith]

:3 fight fight fight

[eternal talon]

Yes

[rocky wraith]

think so

means we aren't the go-to team, but rather a team in case all the others are incompetent

[eternal talon]

It is canonical as far as I am aware

[solar nova]

Absence != does not exist.

[eternal talon]

...

Do you believe aliens built the pyramids?

Or that all of existence was created last thursday?

Those are also unproveable to be false

[harsh saffron]

we could still be the go-to team but we only get sent in when WRDN realised the first team has problems (aka died)

[eternal talon]

Or atleast the ladder is

[rocky wraith]

yeah, the least expendable

[solar nova]

You should have the ability to comprehend the difference between "we don't know they weren't present" and "they were not not present."

[harsh saffron]

if the warden only wants some harddrives and doesn't expect any real enemy presence, it would make sense to send some other team before us

[eternal talon]

We have zero evidence of them being present

[solar nova]

And that doesn't entail they were not present.

[eternal talon]

And evidence pointing to them showing up later

[solar nova]

"They were not present until X time" is a claim.

[burnt wren]

I agree with Frost on this one

[solar nova]

It needs evidence.

[rocky wraith]

yup

[eternal talon]

I just gave you the evidence

Twice

[solar nova]

Then do that instead of making this dumb af argument.

[eternal talon]

We never encounter a single one and they are never mentioned

You are the one arguing

[burnt wren]

Fliers are an R6 invention, right?

[rocky wraith]

I agree with frost, there was no encountering the fliers before B1

[eternal talon]

I was talking about other stuff

[eternal talon]

Yes.

Complete and total

They and the kraken are a feature added in 1.0

[rocky wraith]

the only other time that we know we met the fliers was with bishop and the expidition

[burnt wren]

It makes perfect sense to me that their source is exclusively the events of B1 where we accidentally opened the flood gate.

[eternal talon]

Ehhh, are they mentioned in that logM

Either way still destination exclusive

[burnt wren]

Wouldn't be surprised if they go extinct in R7.

[rocky wraith]

Yup, the doctor mentions them using pack tactics to kidnap scientists

[burnt wren]

Btw can someone explain to me what the fuck was the objective of D1?

[eternal talon]

Get the genome data for nam-v

[solar nova]

Not mentioned does not entail that they never appear. In our own gameplay, we know that they access the complex via the artifacts, and we know that these artifacts have been in extensive use.

[rocky wraith]

download a genome database

[burnt wren]

And Kraken encounter was just an accident then?

[eternal talon]

We have evidence that proves otherwise

[solar nova]

?????????

[eternal talon]

The fact we let them in later

[rocky wraith]

possibly, but also likely that it showed up at around the same time as the fall of garganta

[eternal talon]

You are the outlier here, it's 3v1. It's very clear they only show up later

[solar nova]

It's not really that out there to suggest fliers, and sleepers in a similar group as fliers, might have found ways in at some point.

[eternal talon]

They would have been mentioned at least once as a retcon if they were supposed to be there

[eternal talon]

Fliers are destination exclusive

Sleepers are not.

[solar nova]

We don't know that this is their only entry point.

[eternal talon]

The allens despite their mistakes, were sure of that

[solar nova]

It's just an entry point.

[burnt wren]

It has to be

[rocky wraith]

there was not any security protection or defensive emplacements made in the strutures on Destination to suggest encountering with fliers

[eternal talon]

Do you see them anywhere else?

Causation doesn't mean correlation

[burnt wren]

What, there is another teleporter device just stuck on "open"?

[solar nova]

It seems like the datablocks might also be entry points, and that there are general unpredictable entries all over the place.e

[solar nova]

C1, D1, D2, D3.

In radically different locations.

[eternal talon]

The mwp is an artifact modified by insight, it's unique

[eternal talon]

Yes, all after b1

[rocky wraith]

the WMP is 'Required' to make a quantam tether for the fliers

[eternal talon]

Your point being?

[solar nova]

Again, it's possible B1 did it

but it's not necessary

[rocky wraith]

and again this

[solar nova]

There's no reason to just assume shit.

[sonic citrus]

It seems like a reasonable assumption given what we've seen. But it IS an assumption

[solar nova]

Hell, if the Edgar log is teleportation, that is literally retconning in flyers.

[rocky wraith]

no its not?

[burnt wren]

@solar nova well the way I see it is B1 just makes too much sense writing wise, and anything else is just trying to be subversive smarty pants writers so I'd prefer we don't go there.

[eternal talon]

It's not assuming

It's obvious

[rocky wraith]

Edgar log is not a flier

[burnt wren]

It's possible, but it's too boring for narrative purposes.

And ripe for silly retcons.

[eternal talon]

NO!
BULLSHIT

Teal log is not fliers

[solar nova]

Don't ping me 3 times fucktard

[rocky wraith]

^^^^^^

[eternal talon]

They are two humans together

That is NOTHING like fliers

[eternal talon]

Temper, temper

[burnt wren]

You might want to clarify two humans

[eternal talon]

Two people stitched together

I'm on android, auto correct is hard

[rocky wraith]

distinctively had legs and arms as was mentioned

not a flier for certain

[harsh saffron]

I still think he just meant that its upper half and bottom part looked so different that it looks like 2 different humans stitched together.

[eternal talon]

Perhaps, but that's not the point here

It's nothing like a floater whatsoever

[harsh saffron]

Yeah I know, just wanted to say that

[burnt wren]

Hm.

I wonder if this description is literal or it just looked like that...

[eternal talon]

Honestly the first thing I think is goro from mortal combat

[burnt wren]

Either that thing has a "leg day best day" physiology (evolved to run? ) or its literally frankenstein'd itself in order to survive.

[eternal talon]

But we have very few details about their appearance

[rocky wraith]

Hey, what happened to the secret objective Shafer set of typing "RESIST" in a terminal below 1100 metres?

[harsh saffron]

You got another log in C3

[eternal talon]

Told us to go deeper

Nothing special

[rocky wraith]

audio or text?

[eternal talon]

Same stuff he's been trying to do in his hideout, you read about

Think it was a text log

Didn't hear his voice until r6

If I recall

[harsh saffron]

https://gtfo.fandom.com/wiki/Rundown_005_Logs#DTLA-SCH-4PR.LOG

audio

[past matrix]

that was r4e1

I thought

[rocky wraith]

yee

I've been reading and listening to the logs trying to find out more

[harsh saffron]

nah, that was R5C2 and the 2nd locked log was C3

[rocky wraith]

ty, so it was that one

[past matrix]

oh yeah it would have been r5

r5c2 was the one with the cells right

and the generator

[harsh saffron]

yup

[hot burrow]

whats going on. I saw ray and frost going at it

[rocky wraith]

also funny that they coded each of the KDS squads tags to spell out gtfo

[past matrix]

schaeffer doesnt have any text logs afaik

i mean there's text logs that probably mention him but he doesn't talk to us via them

[eternal talon]

he was saying the edgar/teal log creature was a flyer

[hot burrow]

cool

[rocky wraith]

There are audio logs claiming to be from R5 and R4 or about there

[past matrix]

yeah r4e1 has him talking about snatchers and shit in an audio file

[eternal talon]

and was arguing that the fliers were in the complex before r6b1

[hot burrow]

Snatchers.... when

we need them

well

[eternal talon]

never, probably

[hot burrow]

I mostly want them 🙂

[past matrix]

snatchers will come out when weapon frankensteining comes out I fear, so never

[hot burrow]

[rocky wraith]

snatchers spooky. I know he calls them sleepers long before this so I defo think he means actual snatchers

[eternal talon]

yeah, but aren't they cut content tho?

they were in the OG trailer

[rocky wraith]

any official word on it?

[past matrix]

cut content is always coming back for GTFO

[eternal talon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vSYJckIfi8

[past matrix]

I'd like to think that but considering its been 2 whole rundowns and like a year and a half

[eternal talon]

@rocky wraith 1:36

[past matrix]

they reintroduced flyers back into the game with r6 so maybe they'll do the same with snatchers in r7

[rocky wraith]

[eternal talon]

afik old fliers weren't the fliers we have now

[past matrix]

maybe thats why r7 is taking ~6 months to make

[eternal talon]

what did they look like?

do you have a pic?

[past matrix]

I don't have a pic but im talking about flying enemies in general

[eternal talon]

we were arguing earlier about the edgar creature running before aswell, i don't know how he got the impression it was a floater

honestly man, i kinda miss the super dark and vibrant lighting of the old engine

that shit was scary as fuck

[hot burrow]

ya

[rocky wraith]

Why does A1 plummit frames more than any other level?

[eternal talon]

idk, ask #gtfo-technical-support

[blissful linden]

Do they go into detail on the critters body and how it functions at any point? Is their central nervous system in the Occiput?

[eternal talon]

ehh, i'm not too well versed about the biology of sleepers

i know there is a report here somewhere

[harsh saffron]

I didn't want to bring it up again but Ray knows thats not a flier you 2 simply had a misunderstanding and talked about different things, would be nice if you didn't bring it up again, kinda unnecessary since we already moved on.

[rocky wraith]

would follow basic anatomy

[blissful linden]

It does seem like they're similar to roaches/grasshoppers things like that. Take off the head or remove the body even up to 40% and it still functions for awhile.

[eternal talon]

not really, it is human anatomy, or at least the human infected are

it's just highly mutated and deformed

[blissful linden]

Not their looks 😛

[rocky wraith]

yeah, I assume it has to do with the changes made to the spine upon parasite infection

[blissful linden]

How they function

Is that what Shooters are launching? Pieces of spine?

That was my first thought

[rocky wraith]

ossified skull fragments

[blissful linden]

Badass

[hot burrow]

pew pew

[rocky wraith]

seems their cognitive functions are relegated to the spine while the head changes in bone distribution and such, however I believe it is different in each sleeper type

[celest pagoda]

We don't know that, we've never been given answers to that.

[blissful linden]

Aw.

[rocky wraith]

I was assuming following the report of the experiments they were performing on people that were transforming into sleepers

[blissful linden]

My partner thought they might be rock/sediment in them

Like crystaline growths

[rocky wraith]

one of the reports mentioned how the spinal-cerebral fluids ossified following infection

however how the shooters stuff is able to fly and 'track' no clue

[blissful linden]

I assumed it was just a stylistic choice to make them dodgeable. But it would be rad if that got lore

[rocky wraith]

possible similarities seen between the crystals seen on Destination and the crystal like formations on the heads of hybrids seems to suggest a connection

[eternal talon]

magnetism? idk, just throwing stuff out there

[hot burrow]

magic

[eternal talon]

to me, hybrids and strikers mostly seem to be chitinous

[celest pagoda]

If anything, we can somewhat assume the projectiles are energy based. The projectiles launched hum slightly, and certain variants, such as kraken barrage, seem to singe/burn on impact slightly.

[blissful linden]

Yeah I was wondering about those guys

So then perhaps it has to do with the wave...uh...projector? I forgot the name. The lore thing from A1

[rocky wraith]

We'll have to examine the skull growths more

[eternal talon]

though ngl the charger scout reminds me eerily of ferrofluid

[rocky wraith]

chargers hmm we'll need to take pictures of them and compare them to the crystals on destination

[eternal talon]

negative, that has nothing to do with the infected

it's an artifact

[blissful linden]

Ah gotcha. I thought it had a similar glow to the projectiles they launch

Or hum or something.

[rocky wraith]

smh time to go screenshot all the different crystals in-game

[eternal talon]

lucky you

i have some

1 sec

[blissful linden]

Everytime I interact with that stuff all I can think of is Nyarlathotep...

Even the critters look like Sundered critters.

[rocky wraith]

oooo

[eternal talon]

o7

[rocky wraith]

you can see the similarity

[rocky wraith]

ty

got any close up pictures of hybrids or shooters?

[eternal talon]

no

check the wiki

or

go load into d2

the first room is full of chargers

[eternal talon]

it's different

[rocky wraith]

completely different crystals

[eternal talon]

hold on

fuck

i don't have a pic

it's the same tumorous growths you see on corpses

[eternal talon]

in-game, check the mouths of the dead corpses

they have the same growths

[rocky wraith]

Yeah, the swelling of the tongue and throat

[hot burrow]

this better

[eternal talon]

wooooah

where's that from?

[rocky wraith]

fantastic

[blissful linden]

Oh shit the growths have color?

[eternal talon]

looking like 4k

[hot burrow]

steam trading card

[eternal talon]

this game has trading cards!?

[hot burrow]

yes

[rocky wraith]

yup

[hot burrow]

was added in R4 I think

[past matrix]

r3

[blissful linden]

Could it just be stomach acid produced to massive extents?

[hot burrow]

really?

damn

[past matrix]

I remember it released 30 minutes before r3 released

[eternal talon]

no,

[past matrix]

so r2 i guess technically

[eternal talon]

you see those exact tumors

in the mouths

[rocky wraith]

so crystals on destination share similarities to the one in the MWP, however growths on sleepers are completely different

[eternal talon]

of corpses

[eternal talon]

yes

[rich blaze]

On trading card you can also see charger without oil

[hot burrow]

yes

[blissful linden]

It seems like they recombinate the corpses though. Like they dont do things that they normally should as a human. So what if they delagated the production of stomach acid to a purely defensive thign?

The stomach seems to be used as a weapon anyways

(the tongue)

[hot burrow]

They look better without the oil imo

[burnt wren]

Oof

That's actually creepy

[rich blaze]

It looks like Keratin

[burnt wren]

In game tank is funny

[rich blaze]

But I'm unsure

[blissful linden]

With simple additions you can make some really crazy chemical compositions in a person. If you eat a certain mushroom you can turn your stomach acid into jet fuel

Perhaps something in the environment is doing something similar.

[rocky wraith]

Just letting you know, that during the decay of corpses, several tissues swell massively because of inflammation and expanding gasses, it isn't unusual to see that sort of swelling in normal corpses. As far as I can remember from my forensic classes

[eternal talon]

no like, it isn't swelling

it's one of the tumors on the shooters head,

blocking the entire mouth

[burnt wren]

That's too deep for now, me thinks. Sleeper physiology is almost a mystery at the moment.

[eternal talon]

it looks like a bloody respirator for goodness sakes

god i wish i had a picture

[rocky wraith]

I'll need to recheck the pictures of the corpses, as far as I recall, I only remember how weird it was to see the skull split in that peculiar manner

[burnt wren]

I'm more curious about their "tongues". It looks like a parasite coming out from the host to attack personally.
Also explains why they can't live without heads.

[rocky wraith]

'can'

[eternal talon]

the parasites individually are small

[blissful linden]

It looks like their stomachs modified into tongues to me

[eternal talon]

the log with hazmat describes a ton of them

it's not one giant parasite afik

[blissful linden]

The colon stretched and extended to fly out and tag things

[burnt wren]

Perhaps this is what they evolve into?

[eternal talon]

is what evolves into

the parasite doesn't have its own form per se

only mutations of host species

you can still partially indentify what was originally there

that's even the case for the rarer variants like mother and hydra

[rocky wraith]

but only seeming to adapt with tissues already infected with NAM-V

[rich blaze]

hydra?

[eternal talon]

tank, father

[rich blaze]

oh

[blissful linden]

I cant think of anything else long enough in the human body to be the tongue anyway.

[eternal talon]

intestine?

[burnt wren]

The way it looks in game, it's like the worm thing is wearing the host like a shell. When the sleepers have their seizures it's like something inside of them is trying to break out.

[blissful linden]

That swhat I said

lol

[eternal talon]

yeah, but we know its not

[blissful linden]

It's their colon and stomach modified to tag things

[eternal talon]

hold on

[rocky wraith]

not colon, colon too far down

[blissful linden]

Think it's all connected no?

[rocky wraith]

small intestines

[eternal talon]

fuck, @subtle verge what was the log with parasites and hazmat

[rocky wraith]

"I have our entire cellular biology department working on this, but so far
little progress has been made. Even after the parasite is removed, the viral
load increases. We cannot stop the progress of the virus, and our only
defense is SCBA Level A suits when in NAM-V hotspots. Even with this level of protection, the parasites are finding ways in."

[blissful linden]

Oh damn...sounds more like a virus then tbh

[eternal talon]

last 6 words

[eternal talon]

well it's both

[blissful linden]

Impossible!

I love it

[eternal talon]

it's a symbiotic pair

[blissful linden]

Very eldritch

[eternal talon]

@blissful linden read this

[blissful linden]

I've gotten to C1 so far so I saw that it takes places at the crater that ended the dinos! Reading the rest now!

[eternal talon]

this doc is a summary of all currently available lore

[blissful linden]

Very nice! Ty 😄

Oh hell no about them cracking into an already made excavation chamber. HELL NO.

That is the moment I'm out. Fuck that.

[subtle verge]

The amount of power, or persistence, that a parasite would need to eat through SCBA level A gear is... something crazy.

If you've touched the material that those suits are made of, you know how thick it truly is.

It's thick enough to have a whole battery powered exhaust port built into the suit.

[rocky wraith]

Possibly not power or persistence, possibly digestive enzymes or other cleavage proteins being utilised. But that would have to be highly specialised which is unusual

teleporting parasites

[eternal talon]

the parasites don't teleport

[rocky wraith]

I joke

[eternal talon]

the allens, and floaters that the parasites infected, can.

[subtle verge]

That's what I mean, but yes. Then again, the crystals themselves tend to eat through the foam resin that's on the MWP. (I can't remember if it's the crystals or Cretasium, I'd have to reread that log).

So I guess anything is possible by that standard.

[rocky wraith]

hungry crystals

[eternal talon]

nomnomnom

[subtle verge]

But the sheer power behind that enzyme is nutty, considering those suits are pretty much 99.99% resistant to acids.

[rich blaze]

could they produce something equivalent to regal water?

[rocky wraith]

even that won't get through SCBA level A I think

protonation reactions that strong

just

I would rather believe the cretasium is embedded in the parasites

[burnt wren]

Why do them call them parasites anyway

[subtle verge]

There are only three hyper acids that can get through SCBA level A efficiently: Fluorinated Carborane, Fluoroantimonic Acid, and Perchloric Acid.

Other acids can erode SCBA-A gear, but it would take a good amount of saturation.

[burnt wren]

You make it sounds like you worked with one before

[subtle verge]

I work in the Hazmat field IRL.

[burnt wren]

Brutal

[eternal talon]

these are professionals

[subtle verge]

I'm a contractor for FEMA.

[burnt wren]

Super brutal

Now that's a job thats not boring

[blissful linden]

Every job gets boring after awhile sadly. Even the cool ones like that.

[subtle verge]

To be fair: I don't deal with acids, I just deal with natural disaster cleanup; gas leaks, nuclear waste, etc.

[burnt wren]

bureaucracy

[subtle verge]

And the worst part of this job is exactly that, Artek, the bureaucracy.

I also do a little bit of IT/Networking on the side, but that's more "hobby job" on the side and isn't as cool or relatable to GTFO.

[burnt wren]

Spend 20 minutes in gas, write 2 hours essay on how it felt

Heh... Anyway.

It's weird that they call it parasite.

[rocky wraith]

how so?

[blissful linden]

It seems to act more like a virus.

[eternal talon]

there are both

its two seperate entities

[blissful linden]

Right, right. Which is impossible

[eternal talon]

it's not

[burnt wren]

Parasite is a step above virus. It should be something that is visible, something that has primitive extinct and is alive by all accounts

[eternal talon]

it's a symbiotic pair

[rocky wraith]

Read the logs

[burnt wren]

That's what I mean

[eternal talon]

read this

What are Sleepers?:

Sleepers are the final product of a NAM-V - Parasite infestation. NAM-V has an extremely high infectivity rate and is presumed to have a lethality rate of 100%.
Sleepers are created by either the Parasite by itself, or by the Parasite with NAM-V present. We know due to a time differential that NAM-V by itself cannot create Sleeper infestations.
It is theorized that NAM-V's extremely high lethality rate is supported by the Parasite, keeping infected hosts alive and thus, allowing the virus to not starve itself to death.
In circumstances like those found in the meteor beneath Garganta, it would seem that once all local hosts have been converted, a population of Sleepers can hibernate for millions of years before the opportunity to spread reveals itself once more.

What are Giants? Hybrids?

Specialized variants of Sleepers are created by the Parasite to fill a niche in its hive. A great example of this would be the Scout, designed to keep watch while other Sleepers hibernate to keep a hive from being exterminated.
Another example would be the giant, created by an infected host that has a large quantity of muscle mass, this infected individual was mutated into a role more fitting by it's genetic code and purpose the Parasite needed to support the hive.
It is this reason that nearly all Shooter variants appear to be female in origin, and nearly all Strikers being male.

[blissful linden]

Well a virus cant really interact with living things like that. I think that is what I mean by it being impossible. They simply rewrite things.

[burnt wren]

Descriptions make it sound like a virus, but they call it parasite. It's something of a... Greater biological entity, if you understand what I mean.

[eternal talon]

READ

[blissful linden]

So it cant coexist with any other living cell. I will lol

I'm just saying

[eternal talon]

it's different

[rocky wraith]

viruses can coexist with cells

[blissful linden]

Oh?

Dont they rewrite them and then make them burst?

[rocky wraith]

retroviruses and lysogenic viral life cycles

[blissful linden]

Interesting...

[rocky wraith]

HIV for example

[blissful linden]

Hm. Good point...

It's like it's using the virus as a machine almost

[rocky wraith]

A good case study to look at the symbiosis between parasites and pathogens is looking at the life cycle of Onchocerciasis and Wolbachia.

[blissful linden]

A super advanced bot

Or vice versa maybe.

[rocky wraith]

No

The virus may have possibly been the result of a recombination event between whatever original alien virus was there and a positive-sense RNA virus like a rhinovirus that the scientists may have been infected with when they went into the cavity. This would provide the recombinant NAM-V virus the tools to zoonotically transfer and infect humans.

The parasite seems to take advantage of the effects the virus has on the body and accelerate infection as well as causing severe cognitive decline as the parasite begins to adapt the body into a sleeper. Exact details are unknown

speculation on whether NAM-V was a recombination is practically useless tho, given the fact it would have been pointed out right away by the scientists and a vaccine easily made

Of course that ignores the genetic drift of the viral antigen and clear PAMP signals

[blissful linden]

Question is the D floor the deepest layer of Garganta?

[eternal talon]

no

[rocky wraith]

nupe

[eternal talon]

it goes waaaaay down

[blissful linden]

Interesting.

[rocky wraith]

down to the egg

[eternal talon]

thousands of meters

the inner, yes.

[blissful linden]

Does each rundown add a new layer?

[eternal talon]

no, it sorta hops between levels

each rundown usually adds a new tileset

[blissful linden]

Gotcha. So no clue when they'll actually get to The Inner then.

[eternal talon]

nope

given the uniqueness, it'll probably be like r6, where it's not a tileset, but individually made zones

[rocky wraith]

Considering how many rundowns they have planned, I suspect we won't get there for a long while

[subtle verge]

As far as we're aware: Garganta was originally planned to be dug only 1500 meters, however after the discovery of The Egg, they went an additional 500 meters.

It could be deeper, but so far we know for certain it's at least a 2000m depth.

The deepest we've been is around 1360m so far, and I think that's R6D2 or D3.

[blissful linden]

I'm assuming the minibosses camp down near those levels.

[rocky wraith]

go play D1

[blissful linden]

Oh I will. The constant alarm had me pretty tilted. I'm going ot give a it a try later.

[subtle verge]

They've been all around the facility for a good while, from R1 to R6. But D1 is where it gets spicy.

[rocky wraith]

reactor alarm?

[blissful linden]

Gotcha. Higher concentrion down there then at least?

The error alarm

[subtle verge]

I think it was R4 where we had Giant Mother? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, here.