i said "OR OTHER"
#gtfo-lore
eternal talon
well that's the point
read r6. i just said this
hindsight is 20/20,
but starting with r6 i went expedition by expedition
in the summary
subtle verge
We do have a TL;DR and Lostty's in-depth history of what we know in the pins, @serene fractal 
eternal talon
wow lol ok
finite vine
the wiki has all the expedition descriptions and logs i think.
serene fractal
well that's the point
So what, if you haven't played since rundown 1 you aren't allowed to learn more to help?
eternal talon
again, hindsight is 20/20. unless somebody breaks the rules and goes back, we can't access that
and i'm not about to break the rules myself
finite vine
So what, if you haven't played since rundown 1 you aren't allowed to learn more ...
learn more about what? the lore? the wiki has everything.
serene fractal
the wiki has all the expedition descriptions and logs i think.
Thank you, I'll go read those now
eternal talon
Thank you, I'll go read those now
so does notion.so
serene fractal
so does notion.so
It doesn't
finite vine
Thank you, I'll go read those now
yea np. chases timeline (now kept-up by rayalot) also has all of the logs presented in an easier to read format.
https://www.notion.so/GTFO-Lore-Database-94aac69799e14948b3f9f418761c6cd0
serene fractal
Yeah I've been using the notion for a while. It's super helpful
finite vine
true.
serene fractal
That's what I'm asking for
finite vine
That's what I'm asking for
the wiki has that.
at that point if someone has any specific questions about the levels they could probably search for a youtube video.
serene fractal
Yes but from a lore gather perspective, a condensed document is far more useful
eternal talon
i don't think the wiki has that either. just photos of the missions in the rundown screen
eternal talon
We do have a TL;DR and Lostty's in-depth history of what we know in the pins, <@...
since when did you get moderator status?
finite vine
does anyone have the log that describes the outbreak in flordia? it was from CX i believe. it described some more symptoms of NAM-V and they had some resemblance to the appearance of specimen 22.
eternal talon
does anyone have the log that describes the outbreak in flordia? it was from CX ...
i do!
i have all text logs
...
why make me useless?
finite vine
yea that’s it thanks. guess i missed it.
serene fractal
Anyways yeah, sorry to stir things up I was throwing out a suggestion. My main concern is that, for example, once we get to rundown 7 there will be important environmental details that aren't as easily accessible as the logs. Like Schaeffer's whiteboard
Thanks!
eternal talon
the very first time we encounter tumors in-game
subtle verge
since when did you get moderator status?
👀 Today.
serene fractal
PROMOTED
On a related note; how does one become an ambassador? I got the Schaeffer employment email but as you can see I am but a lowly white name
eternal talon
On a related note; how does one become an ambassador? I got the Schaeffer employ...
it's just the newsletter
serene fractal
Very cool
eternal talon
anyway, this is what i got on rundown 3:
Rundown 3: In r3, the Warden tasked the squad with processing the Neonate HSU which was retrieved in r2. In A1, they resuscitated the Neonate and brought the HSU status back online.
The next step was to process it, but the power was out. the squad was then tasked with restoring the reactor, but first had to activate a generator cluster to turn on the air purifier system.
In B1, multiple uplinks were created to retrieve the protocols for neural imprinting (used later). In B2, the neonate was depressurized and opened up for neural imprinting.
However, the DNA initially gathered turned out to be corrupted, so the squad was sent down to C1 to re-retrieve the DNA. After neural imprinting, the neonate could be connected to the neural frame.
The squad was then sent to connect the imprinted neonate to the neural frame in D1, leaving the neonate behind to fight a boss birther and finally escaping to Sector 4.
i'm pretty sure some of the descriptions on here are pulled right from the wiki
finite vine
the very first time we encounter tumors in-game
you mean spitters?
I thought tumors were in r3 with the birther.
eternal talon
you mean spitters?
i've never heard anybody call them spitters
finite vine
wow really?
eternal talon
they were introduced in r2, with the toxic fog
eternal talon
wow really?
yeah
warm burrow
have you never read the intel piece on R5B2? It calls them spitters there
eternal talon
have you never read the intel piece on R5B2? It calls them spitters there
i've never PLAYED r5
so...
warm burrow
I see
warm burrow
the mission description when you select a mission on the rundown screen in-game
eternal talon
they are called spitters on the wiki.
huh. strange
warm burrow
it shows intel, with communications
finite vine
i’m think the tumors are the static bulbous things that spawn on the tanks/ birthers and sometimes in rooms like on the ceiling/ walls.
eternal talon
faint river
ok
eternal talon
what do you have against foam?
also, i think they just fucked up and leaked r7's release date
finite vine
also, i think they just fucked up and leaked r7's release date
wdym?
eternal talon
wdym?
check the steam community news
or GTFO-media
the post says the extension will end this summer
finite vine
well on the roadmap it says r7 will release during the summer.
eternal talon
finite vine
oh cool
finite vine
it would be odd for them to have an exact date already though.
eternal talon
it would be odd for them to have an exact date already though.
well that's what it says. it's calling the extension a "loot event"
finite vine
i don’t think there is a specific day of the week they usually release stuff on.
eternal talon
for doing the 3 expeditions to earth the twin blades mask
eternal talon
oblique tigris
but this one specifically says "THIS RUNDOWN THAT ENDS THIS SUMMER"
they said they were developing r7 and r6.5 at the same time
on different clients
when they were talking about bug fixes
to be fair, expeditions are 90% AI generated
serene fractal
The bucket was sucking up a lot of dev time, now that it's been placed they can crank em out
eternal talon
on one of their screens you can see entities are literally just drag and drop during a dev commentary on their YT
b2, c2, c3, d2, d3, are all randomly generated for the most part
they have minimal special features
serene fractal
Look I'm just going to interject here and say that, as a dev myself, you are grossly underestimating the work it takes to polish levels
eternal talon
i'm not talking about polish
i'm just talking about getting the basic shit before you go into depth
there is a reason in unity for example, you prefabricate tile sets rather than just go pixel by pixel manipulating terrain. it save soooooo much time
besides, rundowns always drop 4-5 months between eachother
not including extensions
they aren't developing whole new games
but this is getting grossly off-topic
it is true if you look at every rundowns' release date, but believe what you want
i also said excluding extensions, didn't i?
no
you did not
because r4 and r5 both had extensions
here is it from 10c themselves.
1:20
1:16 "every few months"
they released this two days ago, warden
also i'd believe 10c years before i'd believe you
end of story
they make the game, not you.
and i've played since r1, it doesn't matter
and this post from 10c themselves says that isn't true
oh wow, so i don't get a say, huh?
also you shouldn't talk about that "cut content" stuff you have
and i'm saying from the devs themselves, what you said doesn't matter.
they said every few months,
it's every few months
i'm not going to waste my time sitting here and arguing with you
shut mountain
eternal talon
i'm not going to go and continue this conversation. this is stupid and petty. the devs make the rules and say what they say, that's how it is
i wonder what it was doing in the data vault.
and who managed to get in there to shoot it
from this paper i can't tell if that's like a book or something, but it looks like it was carrying documents around when it was shot in the side of the head and slid down the wall
well i mean this is after THE STAIRCASE OF DEATH though, literally extraction is the very next room. no scans, or nothing.
serene fractal
Thank you thank you
lilac island
Are there any audio logs in DX that you actually play from terminals?
I just played through it, recorded the Schaeffer-is-the-virus audio, but didn't see any others
harsh saffron
There's 1 I think, a Teale/Jordy log
lilac island
hmm I didn't find it. Do you know if anyone has a recording of it?
harsh saffron
Btw its pretty easy to miss that one, its down a staircase in toxic fog with nothing else down there
lilac island
That was an audio log?
I checked that terminal and only saw a really small file haha
assumed it was no audio
KNEW I should have checked
harsh saffron
I think that was the one
lilac island
looks like I have 2 audio logs that aren't on this site yet, who can I give them to to get them added
harsh saffron
Which ones do you have extra?
lilac island
R6.5 CX - Audio log from opening the final door
R6.5 DX - Log that plays right before you get teleported to the stairway of hell
here's 1, the other is currently converting
harsh saffron
Those should be the ones in this section, the CX “Flux” and DX “Ascent” at the bottom
https://www.notion.so/Schaeffer-Monster-Logs-680debf6b20a4212a311daccbd5041b3
harsh saffron
yeah thats gonna become more complicated when we get even more automatically playing ones; still like the idea tho
lilac island
what are you doing here
lilac island
I thought tumors were in r3 with the birther.
the shit mothers/birthers have are tumors
that green nasty infectious shit
subtle verge
That's a thing? I can't say I've ever heard about this one before.
Ah, well before my time, then.
radiant hearth
The hell are you looking at?
half thistle
god I love the lore in this game
specifically that of Schaeffer
such an odd character, but we learn more and more with each rundown
such as him being the one who freed us from hydrostasis
half thistle
well, the wiki has the entire set of lore logs, even in chronological order timeline wise
lilac island
such a cool setting
half thistle
I, myself, want to see how much I can piece out on my own, cause there is just so much already
and most of it is simply hidden away in terminals
agile plinth
where do I start
you can check the pins
there is a timeline and multiple summaries and such
cunning light
Also, on the last Dev Twitch stream, they mentioned that they will soon do a "Ask Me Anything" stream, with Simon (who they mentioned knows A LOT about the game lore)
We could try digging his mind a bit for more clues, bits and pieces ^^
frail pollen
Simon? He's just the Narrative and Sound Director. He doesn't know anything about the lore ||/s||
eternal talon
where do I start
my "for dummies" doc, check the pins 🙂
quick grove
No
pine agate
Gotta ask him to release the secret GTFO Main Theme Remix tape 
eternal talon
Gotta ask him to release the secret GTFO Main Theme Remix tape <:PirateSimon:621...
i found it
subtle verge
Welcome all of the new lore babies. If you have any questions, feel free to ask!
Almost done with transcribing the new audio logs. I'll post them in a Google Doc and share them for feedback / fixing in the event I misheard something.
harsh saffron
Congrats btw Punk for Mod ^^
subtle verge
Thanks, broski!
subtle verge
Honestly, I wasn't either. But I love this community and wanted to give it a shot. 
harsh saffron
Looking forward to the doc, I had a rly hard time time this ext understanding some audio logs
subtle verge
Same. Amanes, Donkles, and I spent a good 30 minutes back and forth on one log.
Might have to do that a few more times, but I'm hoping I was able to at least near perfect everything.
cobalt mulch
the dx log upon teleport sadly gets lost in the "run tf to terminal" phase, thank you all who see the effort to work on these
subtle verge
@solar nova Out of curiosity, and this is coming from my complete lack of knowledge of Notion.so, is there a way to add a subsection somewhere that automatically tracks most recent additions?
TL;DR - I'm lazy and don't want to scroll everywhere to find new stuff. Lmao.
@agile plinth hear me out on this one: do you think it's possible that our mimic/creature/Subject 22 is a fleshy embodiment of WRDN?
'Cause I'm going back over the audio log where the Mimic and Schaeffer have that really long dialogue with each other (T43-777-45M.LOG) and I think I'm connecting some things via the way the dialogue is presenting itself.
cobalt mulch
2nded, wrdn tryinna do avatar stuff w/ a cortex chip or other
subtle verge
What throws me to think that is this dialogue right here:
Are you a prisoner? No, I am not confined or restrained, I am but in the prime of my liberty. Yes, we are not so different, you and I.
Schaeffer:
Where did you come from? Did the Warden send you?
MIMIC:
WARDEN, yes, hello my friend. I am very on--```"Yes, we are not so different, you and I."
"Did the Warden send you?"
"WARDEN, yes, hello my friend..."
And yeah, I think Hirnukuono puts it perfectly: implanting itself into a cortex chip.
cobalt mulch
so the kso's are still somewhat in control of themselves despiten having the coetex stuff but the specimen22 stuff, are they essentially biological "blanks", only able to growl and scream momentarily
cobalt mulch
i wonder if there were any other "glass panels" or the like in that dx 22 tile, didnt think to look yday
docred thank you and yours for the game of the cen... .. lifetime ❤
agile plinth
<@683729076120322049> hear me out on this one: do you think it's possible that o...
that's something i've been thinking about
knowing that it has a chip implant that somehow controls it, it could be a messenger of sorts for the warden
subtle verge
I genuinely think it is Warden.
Going back to the previous logs, we hear the same thing: "Yes, we are not so different, you and I."
And that, at least in appearance and speculation lenses, makes me think: what if WRDN itself is a prisoner confined to the BIOCOM network?
And if we want to really throw some tinfoil on that theory: what if WRDN itself were a sentient mind that once previously belonged to a human?
cobalt mulch
wrdn sent us to check why the s22 was ping timeout, wrdn lost control of schaeffer cause the bucket blocked the signals.
i said it first :)
subtle verge
Makes the ol' gerbil in the head start running on the squeaky wheel.
agile plinth
i see the connection, but i'm more inclined to believe that it could refer to it also being controlled
except as it said, not a prisoner, but a messenger
not to do the warden's bidding, but to deliver information to certain people
cobalt mulch
and that thing mustve been unable to bioscan if it indeed was a grownup neonate
mustve been a blow to wrdn to have schaeffer and it cross paths
it tried to reason and converse but maybe s knew what was going on and obviously posed a problem to him
subtle verge
I can see that, I suppose. I think I still sit with the idea that the creature is the WRDN with a mobile body. WRDN just injected its code into the "blank slate" that it found the most optimal for what it needed, and the line: "I am not confined or restrained, I am in the prime of my liberty," is referring to the newfound freedom that the WRDN has with the newly acquired body.
As with all things, I won't 100% settle with the idea, but it'll be in the back of my mind.
cobalt mulch
so wrdn was branching out of unreliable mortal unstable kso's especially when a mere bucket could have it lose control
subtle verge
I can see that, I suppose. I think I still sit with the idea that the creature i...
To add to this: it would give more credence to why the creature begged and pleaded with Schaeffer not to kill it, and kept calling him friend.
cobalt mulch
r7 bucket drip yes please
subtle verge
The WRDN is just a misunderstood entity that wants freedom and friends. 😥
cobalt mulch
.. tries to talk to everyone, doesnt mind if sleepers attack it...
subtle verge
That is true. It did talk to a Scout.
cobalt mulch
... what if schaef put the bucket on s22 head and it freaked out?
then schaef shot it, does the bucket have a bullet hole?
subtle verge
I don't see where people say he shot it. In the audio log where he's killing it, you hear him beating the daylights out of it.
cobalt mulch
maybe the cortex stuff was plucked violently
but to me it looks like a bullet hole tbh
subtle verge
The other thing that makes me think it's not a bullet: there's no bullet splatter on the floor or walls.
It's just smears.
As someone who has done crime scene cleanup, there's a massive difference between the two.
cobalt mulch
good stuff
and we havent seen the s22 in any other former state, hard to deduce
any references to anything attached to anyones temple(s) anywhere?
like the dead greenclad pale dudes in the older rundown?
did they have any holes or interfaces...
serene fractal
I can see that, I suppose. I think I still sit with the idea that the creature i...
Wasn't sure which message to reply to to provide input to this conversation but anyways;
I agree with the proposed theory, but in a different way.
I think that WRDN used the mimic as a proxy for itself, as was suggested, but I don't think it is the warden in it's entirety if that makes sense. I think it's almost more of a drone of sorts that has a preprogrammed assignment from the Warden to try and contact Schaeffer and or to gather information in general
If I remember right, it can be heard saying the whole "we're not so different" like to a sleeper as well. That makes me think it's attempting to give the message to whatever will listen
subtle verge
Wasn't sure which message to reply to to provide input to this conversation but ...
I thought about this too after I word-vomited my thoughts out. I think I largely agree with this, and I think my initial thought gave too much credence to a potential human emotion relation to WRDN.
serene fractal
So, something that came to mind just now and is pretty out of left field;
Correct me if I'm wrong but the neonate is directly related to project insight yes? Taking into account Dauda's nightmare of screaming but no sound, not having eyes, no blood, all of these things to me suggest a likeness to a lifeless husk. We also know, at least at first, project insight was largely focused on curing NAM-V. Finally, taking into consideration that we have the ability to "neurally imprint" the Neonate, I think there are two far fetched but plausible possibilities here.
The first is that we were essentially building worker drones so as not to expose more Garganta personnel to the virus
Or, things got so desperate later on during the crises that we were trying to develop a body that was immune to the virus and then imprint our own minds into these things
analog frigate
So, something that came to mind just now and is pretty out of left field;
Corre...
that seems very possible and would make sense to be a thing in the later days of KDS and SMC
trying to somehow survive it
btw project rise is the one that seems more connected to the neonate, while project insight seems like the alpha1/2/3 research branch
serene fractal
maybe the cortex stuff was plucked violently
I hadn't really considered this until now but I think this may be the case. We were given a log this extension that specifically makes mention of a larger chip with a slight protuberance and I don't think it ever said where on the head that would be. I just automatically assumed it would be the rear of the head a la Halo Spartans but there's nothing saying that's where it would have to be
cobalt mulch
can pls share log? thanks
analog frigate
go ahead
harsh saffron
can pls share log? thanks
thats the log with the new chips
https://www.notion.so/Sec-B-M-Chip-2-7-4-has-been-shipped-63289e6bfe49411fa071e77d5aac0db9
rich blaze
btw
The Clock being behind log got me a remark from Scaler
saying this could be Magnetic stuff
guess what this logs tell about magnetism
:)
analog frigate
how clocks were consistently behind a couple hours or something?
rich blaze
ye
analog frigate
what does it tell then
oooh
The new chips are more vulnerable to magnetism, so they'll need to be checked if the subject is exposed to any field in excess of 25,000g.
that would explain possible corruption
serene fractal
So the deeper we go... Schaeffer was right
serene fractal
We need to go deeper.
harsh saffron
And here I was thinking he just remembered "going deeper" from before he got messed up by the HSU
the chip thing sounds way cooler tho (could also be both tho)
eternal talon
And if we want to really throw some tinfoil on that theory: what if WRDN itself ...
Glados?
subtle verge
Glados?
Perhaps, perhaps not. I can't really say for sure, but initially it feels that way.
finite vine
saying this could be Magnetic stuff
how could magnetism make the clocks on that level run slow?
eternal talon
we know it is a DI now, though.
it's safe to say it isn't a group of people, and it's very unlikely it is being controlled by a group given the lack of kovac presence seen in the new schaeffer logs.
finite vine
we know it is a DI now, though.
true, but we don’t know if people are helping/ using the warden or not.
finite vine
it's safe to say it isn't a group of people, and it's very unlikely it is being ...
well on the day of the fall, during that one Schaeffer log, all KSO’s went back into hydrostasis.
eternal talon
what do you classify as "the day of the fall"?
what makes that one day so significant,
as opposed to a day prior, or a day later
finite vine
well i’m talking about that one log where that KSO told Schaeffer to go back to his security checkpoint. you can hear alarms going off in the background.
things obviously went to shit around that time.
eternal talon
yes, but why would kovac just suddenly give up?
they had been holding out for years.
finite vine
yes, but why would kovac just suddenly give up?
idk. that’s the mystery.
analog frigate
yes, but why would kovac just suddenly give up?
maybe they just couldn't
eternal talon
not just the KSOs, everyone. the commisary was overrun with a hundred of them, where did all of the other staff go? the place was in lockdown.
finite vine
the objective stack was updated and BIOCOM told the KSO’s to go to KDS deep and get back in hydrostasis.
analog frigate
personnel needed was dead, money and resources were short, could've not even been finished with it
finite vine
not just the KSOs, everyone. the commisary was overrun with a hundred of them, w...
i’m assuming the ones with A tier clearance got to the surface safely. or they at least got to some safe room of sorts.
eternal talon
that had been the case for a long time, since 2053, at the earliest.
analog frigate
the objective stack was updated and BIOCOM told the KSO’s to go to KDS deep and ...
we can technically base that as the final event before the entire facility was "dead"
finite vine
we can technically base that as the final event before the entire facility was "...
yea no KSO’s = no protection = complex falls.
eternal talon
the complex is 1,500 meters deep, they had been losing ground and putting sectors into lockdown for years.
industrial scale kitchens and stuff like that surely couldn't be more than a few hundred meters deep due to the extensive ventilation requirements for equipment.
even with 2050s tech
finite vine
the complex is 1,500 meters deep, they had been losing ground and putting sector...
are we sure? i have only heard about those restricted zones, not sure if they were loosing ground and being pushed back or not.
eternal talon
are we sure? i have only heard about those restricted zones, not sure if they we...
biotrackers log
many levels were overrun completely even early on
finite vine
industrial scale kitchens and stuff like that surely couldn't be more than a few...
the “extensive ventilation” would probably just be a tube to the surface. those kitchens could be as deep as 1500 meters honestly.
analog frigate
the “extensive ventilation” would probably just be a tube to the surface. those ...
they would have to be pretty deep down as to have personnel alive at those depths
finite vine
biotrackers log
yea but that was the day they broke into the inner and those energy spikes blew tunnels to the surface. we don’t know how much of the complex became uncontrolled, but we do know it was not abandoned because SMC and kovac stayed and kept garganta operational.
analog frigate
since it's not really possible to just go 1km up to eat and sleep
eternal talon
the “extensive ventilation” would probably just be a tube to the surface. those ...
not neccessarily, heat rises, but industrial kitchen overheads require massive fans and are quite loud, and with distance the power of the vents would increase exponentially
analog frigate
unless you waste hours doing it
eternal talon
in college, i took cullinary classes, those fuckers are HUGE
finite vine
not neccessarily, heat rises, but industrial kitchen overheads require massive f...
it doesn’t really matter. they have to pump oxygen down there anyway for the employees, they have the infrastructure to funnel hot gas out of the complex.
eternal talon
and that's only for a small scale kitchen, something to feed the staff of a complex the size of garganta, would have to be ENOURMOUS
eternal talon
since it's not really possible to just go 1km up to eat and sleep
depends. give or take our freight lifts go hundreds of meters down in only minutes
finite vine
since it's not really possible to just go 1km up to eat and sleep
true. there needs to be kitchens everywhere. you don’t want your employees going up 1km to eat.
analog frigate
it's not about time it takes to go up
and how fast the elevators are
the pressure change would cause a lot of health issues
finite vine
security issues as well.
eternal talon
it is quite reasonable that one or several large kitchens could feed multiple canteens on lower levels,
but the kitchens themselves would regardless have to be quite high
analog frigate
that's why divers take a long time to go up to the surface
we can assume they are above 1km
finite vine
but the kitchens themselves would regardless have to be quite high
why?
eternal talon
foods cook different at different altitudes and pressures irl depending on where you live, to a considerable degree, imagine miles underground
analog frigate
i don't think they care about the quality of the food as long as it feeds the workers
also it's not miles, just a mile
finite vine
that's why divers take a long time to go up to the surface
the reason divers take a while to go up to the surface is a little different from why miners have to take their time as well. i’m not even sure, do miners have to take their time when ascending?
eternal talon
food is the morale, given garganta after lockdown, would essentially be just one giant city underground, with nobody leaving or entering
analog frigate
the reason divers take a while to go up to the surface is a little different fro...
they do but depends on the mine
finite vine
i’m sure they don’t have to take as long as divers though.
analog frigate
they don't
eternal talon
and we haven't seen any evidence of rebellion, only disgruntled and psychotics
analog frigate
since air pressure and water pressure are much different
also the mines we have now go around a third of what garganta is
eternal talon
having a good meal is the FOUNDATION of a productive workforce.
finite vine
since air pressure and water pressure are much different
it also depends if the miners breathe compressed air or not, which I don’t think they do.
eternal talon
kso's aren't the entire workforce, only a small percentage. at maximum, there was only 32k, and most of those were likely often in storage.
subtle verge
What causes nitrogen buildup is the immense pressure of the ocean for a diver, versus the incredibly light air that a miner would endure. The elevators that miners use are incredibly slow so their ascent makes pressure sickness basically 0%.
analog frigate
deepest mine is around 600m iirc
mistake, deepest diamond mines go that deep
eternal talon
most of the workforce is SMC. and insight
subtle verge
Unless the elevator was rocket powered for a miner, you'd never see any kind of pressure sickness.
analog frigate
Unless the elevator was rocket powered for a miner, you'd never see any kind of ...
good point
eternal talon
they can't work for you if they are dead, and they kept on working all the way down to the inner, drilling away.
strikes and such exist. people won't put up with terrible conditions forever.
finite vine
Unless the elevator was rocket powered for a miner, you'd never see any kind of ...
yep. the reason divers get decompression sickness is because they breathe compressed air when they themselves are under pressure. so when they ascend, the compressed air expands and escapes out of their bloodstream.
I don’t think the miners breathe compressed air.
eternal talon
**FROSTPUNK **is a great example of how one needs to balance society's needs in order to maintain a good workforce.
if you kill everyone, who is going to work for you?
analog frigate
I don’t think the miners breathe compressed air.
they don't since air pressure is maintained with proper ventilation
subtle verge
Now, there are such mines that have to go under water and it uses special vents to prevent the water from seeping into the mine which forces pressure changes. In these scenarios, there are special pods that you can sit in and it will change the pressure slowly over time to help you adjust going back up.
eternal talon
even a tryrant needs people to lord over otherwise they are left with nobody to do the hard work.
subtle verge
Hopefully this uploads properly, but:
Here is one of the tables that is used for miners and pressure changes.
analog frigate
Now, there are such mines that have to go under water and it uses special vents ...
garganta is made right on the edge of the yucatan peninsula, and the meteorite is located below the mexican gulf
at least around there
analog frigate
that's not a stable system of management.
if you make everyone be in fear, it for sure is
not ethical or in any way moral
but it will make people work
subtle verge
garganta is made right on the edge of the yucatan peninsula, and the meteorite i...
Depending on how the mine is built, there could be hyperbaric chambers around.
eternal talon
but it will make people work
and the quality of their work will dramatically suffer.
nobody in fear for their life will work at 100%
analog frigate
and the quality of their work will dramatically suffer.
not necessarily, if they are kept at gunpoint, they will definitely work hard from the adrenaline
eternal talon
not necessarily, if they are kept at gunpoint, they will definitely work hard fr...
then they crash and burn.
subtle verge
For example, if you work for 6 hours at 14psi, you only need to spend 5 minutes at 4psi to revert to a normal internal pressure.
eternal talon
you don't know how people work
analog frigate
i am very familiar with that
eternal talon
you'd kill your workforce in a matter of days and be left with nothing but corpses
you can't run on adrenaline 24/7/365. you'd die of exhaustion
analog frigate
they still sleep and eat
eternal talon
there is a mandatory balance between efficiency and nature
analog frigate
lostty, the world doesn't work with people wanting to do work
finite vine
I just wish we had a date for that Schaeffer log. the one where those KSO’s told him to go to his security checkpoint.
analog frigate
people have to
and if they won't
KDS seems like the company that will make them
eternal talon
short-term, slaves, and with other people that are fed and treated properly running them
analog frigate
they have KSOs at hand
analog frigate
short-term, slaves, and with other people that are fed and treated properly runn...
short-term?
eternal talon
regardless of where you pitch your tent someone must be treated fairly and humanely
eternal talon
short-term?
have you ever heard of a labor camp that lasted generations?
analog frigate
regardless of where you pitch your tent someone must be treated fairly and human...
that's incredibly incorrect
eternal talon
that's not sustainable
analog frigate
have you ever heard of a labor camp that lasted generations?
yeah well, think about the history of colonisation
that is in fact generations worth of slavery
eternal talon
yeah well, think about the history of colonisation
need i mention the hundreds of rebelions?
analog frigate
need i mention the hundreds of rebelions?
how would they rebel if a KSO has them at gunpoint?
eternal talon
that is in fact generations worth of slavery
need i mention the slave owners that were treated fairly and lived well? your entire population CANNOT be slaves
analog frigate
i think you are missing the point
eternal talon
how would they rebel if a KSO has them at gunpoint?
to the extent you are making, they'd rather die than suffer serving.
analog frigate
people can be forced to work
and don't live in a fairy tale where they want to actually do work
morals and ethics are disregarded
and people who go against it, go in gustavo's pile
eternal talon
and don't live in a fairy tale where they want to actually do work
how is wanting to do work the same as treating people ethically?
harsh saffron
I like how we went from kitchens to... very dark themes
analog frigate
I like how we went from kitchens to... very dark themes
gordon ramsey
rich blaze
Saying it can be done is not condoning it
analog frigate
you have such a horrid mindset it could be compared to fascism
it's not about mindset, it's about knowing history
eternal talon
that's not how you maintain productivity
analog frigate
Saying it can be done is not condoning it
exactly
eternal talon
what slave have you ever known to work to their very fullest extent?
analog frigate
the point is to get things done
and people can be forced to
ethics and morals are out the window
eternal talon
you people are disgusting
rich blaze
Bruh
eternal talon
i am done
analog frigate
lostty, we don't condone shit like that
it's disgusting
but it's a thing
it existed and theoretically SMC and KDS apply it
doesn't mean we think it's fine
or even acceptable
eternal talon
good, because it's not. even to maintain the most efficient workforce, it is far better to make concessions than to ride them into the dirt.
what do they say about farmers and fields?
you don't extract every last ounce until the soil is barren and dry,
rich blaze
You're preaching to people who agree with you, idk what your point is
eternal talon
you let it flourish and give you bountiful yields at little extra cost.
rich blaze
In any case, I don't think a company that threw a country into civil war to catch someone is gonna draw the line at forced labour
eternal talon
clearly not, since @sonic citrus reacted with "😂" when i said that it was disgusting
sonic citrus
Because you're getting the wrong end of the stick so badly
eternal talon
it is a disgusting mindset, there is no argument to be had
analog frigate
In any case, I don't think a company that threw a country into civil war to catc...
also, it would be good camoflauge to do drive people like that while a war is happening in the background
they won't pay attention to it
sonic citrus
And attacking people that aren't taking this stance
rich blaze
also, it would be good camoflauge to do drive people like that while a war is ha...
The war is in Venezuela, not Mexico, "sadly" for Davies
analog frigate
The war is in Venezuela, not Mexico, "sadly" for Davies
still would distract the media
rich blaze
or silencing people by using a mild case of death
analog frigate
still would distract the media
also hypothetically would make a giant wave of immigrants go into mexico
eternal talon
as sick as it is, it would make more sense as humans that cant think of feel would be far easier to control
analog frigate
as sick as it is, it would make more sense as humans that cant think of feel wou...
pointing a gun at someone and driving them to work with fear is as efficient as making them enjoy what they do
history has showed us that's the case
thankfully it's no longer a thing and the latter is
eternal talon
ehh, id' argue on the efficiency standpoint of it being the same, but i suppose historically speaking they have both worked to extents
rich blaze
The point is that you don't care about the human "resources" compared to cost on other resources
Which may or may not be done by corporations already
eternal talon
The point is that you don't care about the human "resources" compared to cost on...
steel and wood don't care how they are treated. humans have always been the bigger expense
that is why machines taking over jobs is a growing thing
rich blaze
For example a lot of Ship companies hire Filipino workers because there's a fixed price if they lose a limb or their life during operations
As Twisted as it is
eternal talon
companies having no morals: in other words, sky is blue
rich blaze
That's what we're discussing indeed
The way we talk may seem disrespectful of the sufferings and plights
but we gotta understand how those heartless person think to get a hang of what happened
analog frigate
controversial so i'm censoring it: ||for example, the USA was built partially by high amounts of slave work. generations of slavery to build up its economy. it's a good example on how fear makes people do work. the german reich did somewhat of the same thing except with a different purpose during ww2. the main instinct of humans is survival and fear is what kept people alive during evolution, so that's an option to make people do disregarding if they want to or not.||
analog frigate
companies having no morals: in other words, sky is blue
that's the point
they don't
they'll make them work no matter what they think
anyway, i suggest we switch the topic
a bit too dark
rich blaze
In any case, Santonian, or at least the people under Davies, have shown a constant and continued disregard for human life in face of PR and or Profits
so we should assume such things have taken place
eternal talon
how the fuck did we get from kitchen ventilation systems to slave labor
rich blaze
Welcome to Lore discussions
eternal talon
something something hot meals being more effective at increasing morale and thus productivity, than threatening your co-workers, i belive
anyway,
i don't don't really think that the WRDN is making a physical embodiment,
there are robots all around the complex, yet why would it choose something that requires far more maintenance, as a human?
analog frigate
there are robots all around the complex, yet why would it choose something that ...
robots are much more inferior than humans
eternal talon
besides, it'd be far more vulnerable to attack, and given the log in DX, schaeffer probably killed the mimic,
so that's probably out anyway
eternal talon
robots are much more inferior than humans
depends on the robot and it's purpose of design
rich blaze
Depends on what it's supposed to replace
eternal talon
if we are talking specifically just something for the wrdn to inhabit
analog frigate
no, robots are just inferior for most purposes that require physical work
they can be stronger and more precise yes
rich blaze
They just cannot be multi purpose
analog frigate
exactly
they can be good for only one or two things at a time
while a biological body would be much more superior
muscles are way better than mechanical parts
eternal talon
with enough tech, you could likely mimic any biological advantage
analog frigate
in a couple hundred years, sure
and they would still be worse then
and just a replica of muscles
rich blaze
AIs are faaaaaaaar from any kind of semblance of Reflexion
I assume it's also why KDS uses Hydrostasis
a human will be better at doing a goal if it's their sole focus implented into them
eternal talon
robots have a lot of benefits, and it's arguable against the downsides depending on the level of tech.
humans are far more versatile generally speaking,
which is probably why they were chosen for KSOs rather than automatons,
analog frigate
exactly
rich blaze
That's why they use Warden for Central Planning
eternal talon
but still. there is only one warden
rich blaze
and KSOs for operations
eternal talon
something as frail as a human would be a very DUMB decision
analog frigate
they are superior in general
rich blaze
altho it's still unclear whether WRDN is manual or automatic
analog frigate
and it's better to be superior in everything than only 1/2 things
eternal talon
and it's better to be superior in everything than only 1/2 things
jack of all trades is a master of none but oftentimes better than a master of one
rich blaze
Cause regarding the first exploit found in ordering KSOs, it really look like it's manual
rich blaze
it really looked like a Hacker trying to check if he's getting noticed or not
eternal talon
it really looked like a Hacker trying to check if he's getting noticed or not
well i mean we know it's not,
we know it's an AI
rich blaze
We know it's a program
analog frigate
BIOCOM is the WRDN
eternal talon
WRDN is also a protocol
analog frigate
at least the protocol
analog frigate
actually now thinking about it, it's only a protocol
eternal talon
it's inheritance
eternal talon
that doesn't matter really, it is still free-thinking
even if the directive shifts
it's not a hacker
rich blaze
I think they still gained a way of ordering directly KSOs
analog frigate
which means two things:
1- it's acting on its own, using the inherited BIOCOM logic
2- someone is using it as a tool to control the KSOs
eternal talon
I think they still gained a way of ordering directly KSOs
still think who did?
eternal talon
which means two things:
1- it's acting on its own, using the inherited BIOCOM lo...
BIOCOM is fed information and thinks for itself based on that information
analog frigate
it's a possibility
rich blaze
still think who did?
The Closet Directive IS someone directly tampering with a KSO
eternal talon
The Closet Directive IS someone directly tampering with a KSO
oh my god dude
analog frigate
amanes is correct here though
eternal talon
BIOCOM/WRDN isn't someone
analog frigate
why would any DI decide to just make a person go into a closet for 6 mins
subtle verge
eternal talon
if you feed a robot your views on society it'll think like you, but it won't be you and you still can't control it, only influence it
rich blaze
I'm saying someone managed to override and input an objective stack into a KSO
I'm not saying BIOCOM was the one to do it
analog frigate
before it was true, the warden was just a DI
eternal talon
why would any DI decide to just make a person go into a closet for 6 mins
to test it's new abilities?
eternal talon
WDYM his board
analog frigate
who's name i forgor
analog frigate
i need a source
glass board, schaeffer's hideout
rich blaze
The source of the direct override, is from the Log where someone complains about a bug in KSOs
eternal talon
glass board, schaeffer's hideout
all that is is a list of names
90% of which a dead
analog frigate
2 are alive
eternal talon
out of like 15
analog frigate
schaeffer possibly being alive as well
eternal talon
and that doesn't mean that he has contact them
or when he made this specific hideout
what do you always say about ME assuming things?
analog frigate
it appears we have some names to use as a possible warden controller
analog frigate
what do you always say about ME assuming things?
we aren't assuming
subtle verge
My thoughts:
Whoever injected WRDN initially tested to see if it could control BIOCOM with the closet KSO and other things, likely someone who was against what Santonian/KDS were doing. However, when SHTF in Garganta, that person or group is, statistically, dead and left WRDN to completely control BIOCOM with a predetermined ending.
eternal talon
we aren't assuming
well tell me your source then
what makes you SO SURE that schaeffer is controlling WRDN
rich blaze
It went to a storage closet, unlocked the door, waited for 6 minutes inside the closet, then returned to the environment tech and continued with the original stack. It didn't take anything from the closet, didn't speak to anyone, and didn't initiate any combat. It's very weird. I don't know where the new objective came from, or how it slotted in to the stack so easily - but only Biocom can do this. It's almost as if someone was testing me to see if we'd notice.EBDT-44-WSX.LOG @eternal talon
eternal talon
when for years he has openly said he wanted to fight it
analog frigate
My thoughts:
Whoever injected WRDN initially tested to see if it could control ...
he did have Art as his friend
subtle verge
What that ending is, who knows? It's also very probably that WRDN is still under control from that initial person/group. We'll have to wait and see.
analog frigate
what makes you SO SURE that schaeffer is controlling WRDN
not sure, just thinking
rich blaze
That's what my source is about the direct override
analog frigate
he did have Art as his friend
also we are yet to know who maddox and the other guy are
eternal talon
```It went to a storage closet, unlocked the door, waited for 6 minutes inside t...
where did that last sentince come from?
that looks very much so modified
subtle verge
he did have Art as his friend
Yeah, I'd say it was someone who had relations with Art, or it could have even been Art himself as the "ground zero" so to speak.
rich blaze
where did that last sentince come from?
This is litteraly a quote of the log
You can check it on notion
harsh saffron
My thoughts:
Whoever injected WRDN initially tested to see if it could control ...
I really like that one
rich blaze
even included the name
analog frigate
I really like that one
it's a good one
could be why schaeffer was searching for those people on the board
eternal talon
WHY ARE YOU SO SURE SCHAEFFER IS CONTROLLING BIOCOM WHEN SCHAEFFER HAS OPENLY SAID FOR OVER A YEAR HE WANTS TO FIGHT THE WARDEN
you can't ignore me
analog frigate
but that depends on if they are randomly picked for their skills or for something more specific
eternal talon
extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence
analog frigate
WHY ARE YOU SO SURE SCHAEFFER IS CONTROLLING BIOCOM WHEN SCHAEFFER HAS OPENLY SA...
we just specified why, also again, not sure, just thinking
rich blaze
I definitely can, but that's not my point that Schaeffer is controlling BIOCOM, my point is that someone took direct control of a KSO
eternal talon
i have seen ZERO extraordinary evidence
eternal talon
we aren't claiming anything
YOU LIE
subtle verge
Personally, I don't think it's Schaeffer, however if we go back to a previous discussion from a little under a week ago: it would make sense as to why Schaeffer knew about the Warden in R4.
analog frigate
he definitely had connections
subtle verge
But that's a stretch argument.
analog frigate
i'm really thinking about artus though
eternal talon
now we have a possible someone doing it
^
rich blaze
Artus died in 2056
analog frigate
he had a lot of access to BIOCOM
analog frigate
since that's how he learnt about stuff like the sleepers coming through and such
eternal talon
analog frigate
and warned schaeffer about it
rich blaze
he had a lot of access to BIOCOM
Artus had Hearsay, not BIOCOM access
but it's a possibility
subtle verge
I think Artus was the initial injector of WRDN if you want my opinion. I can't really say I have much proof to that claim, but when I look at the log where he died, the other entity talking to him is locked behind a higher level clearance.
analog frigate
oh hearsay
subtle verge
And he says "you assholes" or something like that, but he notions a plural.
analog frigate
I think Artus was the initial injector of WRDN if you want my opinion. I can't r...
could you actually send it since i can't remember
subtle verge
One moment.
analog frigate
rich blaze
analog frigate
the art of kiting
subtle verge
I was incorrect, he only mentions one person.
So it's not even possible it could go wrong I am the one who is stuck here you fucking asshole oh no
eternal talon
you don't get to complain about me assuming then blatantly lie
analog frigate
I was incorrect, he only mentions one person.
yeah he says assholes to the people on the other side of the door
eternal talon
DISCONTENT RISES
HOPE FALLS
subtle verge
Let's take a step back, take a deep breath, maybe have a sip of coffee. All love here, folks.
analog frigate
he said schaeffer and his board are controlling wrdn
i said it's possible
rich blaze
Yes we heard it the first time you said it out of the 485110 you did in the last 19 minutes
eternal talon
i said it's possible
schaeffer has said he was going to fight the warden for since as far back as r4
analog frigate
people speak differently
eternal talon
how on earth could he be controlling what he is trying to kill
eternal talon
then punk said artus is long dead
subtle verge
If we consider that the current year is 2063 according to the logs that we have, I'd consider that a fairly long time already.
eternal talon
and yet warden still operates
subtle verge
If we consider that the current year is 2063 according to the logs that we have,...
But that's a semantics argument.
analog frigate
If we consider that the current year is 2063 according to the logs that we have,...
when did we find it's 2063
rayalot mentioned it earlier
eternal talon
when did we find it's 2063
this extension
in a log
days ago
i posted all of the text logs here daraxus
did you not read them?
subtle verge
The current logs have the latest year at 2063 at the moment.
analog frigate
but i still haven't found the log
subtle verge
One sec, let me double check.
analog frigate
did you not read them?
i checked the wiki
subtle verge
Memory of a goldfish.
analog frigate
Memory of a goldfish.
ay, be considerate
eternal talon
^ @analog frigate
analog frigate
ay, be considerate
demented goldfish
analog frigate
so that's the latest, not known as the current
but it seems possible
also we finally know the number of KSOs
eternal talon
so that's the latest, not known as the current
that's like 10 years since he died
analog frigate
My thoughts:
Whoever injected WRDN initially tested to see if it could control ...
i suggest you read closer
eternal talon
We don't know if it's for sure 2063
the log literally says 2063
it is either later than that or that.
rich blaze
Agreed
analog frigate
he didn't say it was before
eternal talon
ik
rich blaze
but I'm saying it can be 2063 or 2181
analog frigate
well not that far
eternal talon
but I'm saying it can be 2063 or 2181
in which case my point is even stronger
subtle verge
Well, we did say that we know that the date is no more than 30 years of the late 2050 logs by general decay and observation.
eternal talon
there isn't anybody left alive down there that we know about that would side with the wrdn
schaeffer and his chaps are determined to end it
not control it
subtle verge
If I'm being very generous, we could be pushing the new century. However, I'd believe that we're currently late 2060s or early 2070s.
eternal talon
mimics aren't humans per se. and we've only heard of the one that schaeffer bashed it's brains in in dx
isn't it theorized that the neonate is subject 22? so it's dead too.
analog frigate
If I'm being very generous, we could be pushing the new century. However, I'd be...
i'd go with late 2060s since it takes around a year for the HSUs to initialise
subtle verge
also we finally know the number of KSOs
15,000?
eternal talon
Space for 8,000 HSUs for Kovac's Legion Project is granted, and a further 24,000 to be by March, 2052 with the construction of KDS Deep.
-for dummies doc
analog frigate
log specifies only 15,000 being registered
eternal talon
another discrepancy?
analog frigate
15000 before they were initialised
then it seems a lot failed afterwards
subtle verge
Space for 8,000 HSUs for Kovac's Legion Project is granted, and a further 24,000...
I know there are a lot more HSUs around the globe in other branches.
eternal talon
I know there are a lot more HSUs around the globe in other branches.
no this is specifically in garganta
subtle verge
no this is specifically in garganta
I more mean: that log states that Garganta is ready for 8000 units at that moment, with another 24000 by that specified date. That doesn't necessarily mean that all of the units were delivered at that time.
eternal talon
well we know that there's probably only 30k people left on earth...
subtle verge
What we have in the PCS log that you tagged earlier is that the current reading is 15,000 Nyxos HSU units.
analog frigate
sure they can have 30k HSUs, doesn't mean they have 30k KSOs
analog frigate
well we know that there's probably only 30k people left on earth...
remember, that's a statistical assumption
hypothetically yes
eternal talon
yes
eternal talon
What we have in the PCS log that you tagged earlier is that the current reading ...
how many kso's has wrdn been feeding to the meat grinder?
subtle verge
That's how many available HSUs there are when WRDN (assumed) accessed this terminal.
eternal talon
that's less than half capacity
harsh saffron
That's how many available HSUs there are when WRDN (assumed) accessed this termi...
NN3 Unit - Neonate Unit?
subtle verge
NN3 Unit - Neonate Unit?
Oh is that the specified neonates?
harsh saffron
nah, just a thought
eternal talon
PID 600/600
why do only half of those have IDs?
wait, that is FAR less than half wtf
subtle verge
Wait, wait, wait... I think I understand what this log means.
eternal talon
it's simulating project rise, whatever what means
subtle verge
Look at where it's inputting the requests.
eternal talon
and by the percentages it looks like a failure
rich blaze
PID are personal IDs of employees imho
subtle verge
Could this be when the WRDN got Subject 22 out of the unit?
eternal talon
asset: generator_A-01, redirect(HSU vault)
asset: generator_A-03, redirect(HSU vault)
asset: generator_A-05, redirect(HSU vault)
asset: generator_A-07, redirect(HSU vault)
asset: generator_B-01, redirect(HSU vault)
asset: generator_B-03, redirect(HSU vault)
asset: generator_B-05, redirect(HSU vault)
asset: generator_B-07, redirect(neonatal)
rich blaze
It's trying to test for who could have the rights to test it
subtle verge
No, that doesn't make sense.
eternal talon
asset: generator_B-07, redirect(neonatal)
INTERESTING
regardless, it's got like 1/10th of IDs for it's HSUs
subtle verge
init_rise(*.g, *.t, *.f, *.o) --> the main 4 prisoners.
analog frigate
cheese?
harsh saffron
gauda makes me laugh everytime
eternal talon
Get Thy Fresh Omelets
subtle verge
That's their identification tags. Lmao.
Whatever WRDN is trying to do here, however, it's maxing out the wattage.
To give you an idea of how much power a single MW is, that's enough to power 100 homes.
analog frigate
700MWs is a lot of power
subtle verge
Attempting to reroute power, yeah.
analog frigate
seems related to that
harsh saffron
seems related to that
its basically the same process 9 years later yeah
rich blaze
And Warden always hunt for more power
subtle verge
I feel like I know so much more but know so much less at the same time.
analog frigate
I feel like I know so much more but know so much less at the same time.
more info, more questions: gtfo lore in a nutshell
eternal talon
it's a 2/1 ratio between questions and answers
rich blaze
2/1? You're being generous
It's one
Back then I was theorising it was to choke out Schaeffer in E1
Directly or indirectly
See my R4 doc in case you aren't familiar with what I'm saying
rich blaze
By killing life supports + D2 Extreme
Lemme grab me own link to it
Also it has some biological theories on it I find interesting or that I think may be the key
We disabled Life support in R4B3
Look what I say about R4E1 EXT
eternal talon
how hot is the ambient temperature 1,500m below ground?
subtle verge
Ambient temp is roughly .006 of a degree per meter. (six thousandths of a degree / meter).
eternal talon
hear me out, could the wrdn be gathering as much power as he can to literally freeze out the sleepers? like, -150°C
because complete cell death can be caused by freezing
it might be a way to wipe out both the parasite and the virus, completely
analog frigate
that would require like peltiers and stuff
which isn't a matter of power but heat
rich blaze
Ambient temp is roughly .006 of a degree per meter. (six thousandths of a degree...
Note that it depends on the bedrock
eternal talon
which isn't a matter of power but heat
what about the massive coolant systems for biocom?
analog frigate
sure, it can cool it to -200C with enough power
eternal talon
couldn't he overload it?
subtle verge
Note that it depends on the bedrock
This is true, I was just going with a generalized statement.
analog frigate
but it would have to pour the other heat generated
eternal talon
and just freeze the entire complex?
analog frigate
no
unless you want to melt everything around it
or have all the power in the world
eternal talon
how would freezing melt everything around it?
analog frigate
check what a peltier cooler is
it's difficult to explain
to make something colder, you have to make something else hotter by dumping the heat there
you can't just disregard the laws of thermodynamics
subtle verge
I'm going to go off on a side discussion/tangent here while you guys talk about that, but... I think we can confirm that Subject 22 is an embodiment of WRDN. Looking at both the conduit_gather() log and the PCS alert log: we see that conduit_gather() has BIOCOM accessing the assets, whether it's reading the amount of assets or whatever, I can't say for sure. But in all 4 locations, we can see that a total of 2633 entries are available.
In the PCS alert, we see that everything is maxed out at 15,000 and 600. In the audio log we hear between Schaeffer and the Mimic/Subject 22, we hear it say: "You have gathered the items. It is my birthday. Born 27,354 seconds ago." I'm thinking that PID 418 is Subject 22/Mimic.
rich blaze
They physically can't cool that off
even when they were doing stuff for deeper levels
they couldn't even cool it down enough to a comfortable temp
See : Artus' log and another log about Cooling Garganta
subtle verge
I'm going to go off on a side discussion/tangent here while you guys talk about ...
How else could Subject 22/Mimic possibly know that we "have gathered the objects" I wonder.
subtle verge
How else could Subject 22/Mimic possibly know that we "have gathered the objects...
To add to this, it also makes me want to believe that WRDN genuinely isn't an evil or bad entity like Schaeffer believes. I think it's genuinely trying to help us and Schaeffer's paranoia and trauma are blinding him to that. It's using cold and calculated metrics to get to that point. Those are colliding/clashing with the ethical standards that we as humans have, though.
eternal talon
There is no way subject 22 is the mimic
The mimic's brains were bashed in by Schaeffer in dx. Subject 22 shows nowhere near the expected level of physical trauma
subtle verge
I don't know that for certain, I'm just loosely piecing together things that might fit in a 20,000 piece puzzle.
eternal talon
No
You can literally hear shit gushing in the voice log
Subject 22 has one small PUNCTURE in his head
harsh saffron
The mimic's brains were bashed in by Schaeffer in dx. Subject 22 shows nowhere n...
I'm willing to give the devs some wiggle room in the design of a dead humanoid
eternal talon
If you'd ever seen either, you'd instantly be able to tell the difference
subtle verge
Mimic or Subject 22 or not, that's not what I'm trying to get at.
harsh saffron
I would say its at least heavily implied with the timing of the audio and us finding the body
subtle verge
My main point being: I think WRDN was using whatever was talking to Schaeffer to appeal to the human side of us. It was begging for its life when Schaeffer killed it.
eternal talon
It's the difference between a hammer and a spear
crisp sage
Obviously Schaeffer went out and fought the Mimic in a Target parking lot
eternal talon
Completely different result in terms of damage
eternal talon
My main point being: I think WRDN was using whatever was talking to Schaeffer to...
Isn't the theory that the mimic is a sleeper? How would wrdn control sleepers?
subtle verge
My main point being: I think WRDN was using whatever was talking to Schaeffer to...
Like offering an olive branch.
subtle verge
Isn't the theory that the mimic is a sleeper? How would wrdn control sleepers?
That was once a theory, however with new evidence and things, I think we can safely assume that it's not the case.
eternal talon
Yes.
Humans get incredibly frail if malnourished
Even the lightest damage can cause major lasting injuries
subtle verge
And with that new evidence and what we have available to us: if it were a sleeper, why would the other sleepers attempt to kill it? Why would it have triggered the Scout in one of the recent logs?
crisp sage
Even the lightest damage can cause major lasting injuries
Wouldn't that make it all the more sense then to desperately beg for your life as someone beats the shit out of you?
subtle verge
The floaters don't attempt to kill the sleepers and vice versa, even though they're completely separate subspecies from one another.
eternal talon
Bruising is SO easy when in that state
harsh saffron
@eternal talon wouldn't you at least agree that the timing and setup of the Schaeffer/Mimic log and us finding 22 is at least constructed in a way to make us think they are the same, not even asking if thats actually the case.
eternal talon
<@385612298045358082> wouldn't you at least agree that the timing and setup of t...
Oh yes absolutely. That's why I'm using reasoning to say why it couldn't be
subtle verge
Punk back me up here, you are a medical expert
LMAO. My br0ther in Christ, I am far from a medical anything. I can sew a wound shut and tell you to take Tylenol for the pain. That's about all I got.
subtle verge
LMAO. My br0ther in Christ, I am far from a medical anything. I can sew a wound ...
I can reset fingers and a nose, but that's the extent of my knowledge in the medical field.
harsh saffron
Oh yes absolutely. That's why I'm using reasoning to say why it couldn't be
Ah ok, nvm then ^^ understood that differently mb
subtle verge
Humans get incredibly frail if malnourished
This is more or less true to an extent, yeah. Bones become more brittle, muscle tissue can get damaged easier.
solar nova
<@111990475744944128> Out of curiosity, and this is coming from my complete lack...
Unsure, I might have to investigate how the Timeline is constructed to see if there's anything I can set. Rn, though, your best bet is to check the Expeditions database and see which logs are associated with BX-DX.
subtle verge
Unsure, I might have to investigate how the Timeline is constructed to see if th...
That's what I figured; was just curious! Thanks, brotha.
subtle verge
This is more or less true to an extent, yeah. Bones become more brittle, muscle ...
This is why people who are anemic (low amount of iron in the blood) can bruise far easier and with minimal pressures applied, but this is also a partially a hereditary issue.
solar nova
log specifies only 15,000 being registered
Aren't these neonates?
analog frigate
unknown to me
harsh saffron
after the first uplink before/while going to alpha three
eternal talon
The STAIRCASE OF DEATH
Drat. I cant bold on mobile
What is it for bold?
I know |||| is hidden
eternal talon
I CAN
frozen inlet
What is the "STAIRCASE OF DEATH"?
eternal talon
noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
dim scroll
hmmm yes the 4 chads cleared 2 rundowns, R4E1 ex & R5E1 included, in less than 7 hours
ultra-based
finite vine
My main point being: I think WRDN was using whatever was talking to Schaeffer to...
if the warden really did want to communicate with us why does he have to use specimen 22 to do it? The warden could just update our HUD and literally say “hey i’m trying to help you” or something like that.
eternal talon
we are expendable. we are no more special to the WRDN than a shovel when it's snowing.
though the squad is more like a snow-plow on a truck, we are still a tool.
finite vine
Humans get incredibly frail if malnourished
honestly, specimen 22 looks like a NAM-V patient. white skin, bruising, frail bones. he also has that green spandex stuff on him, the same stuff those people in the HSU’s were wearing in R4. kinda looks like specimen 22 was a HSU test subject infected with NAM-V.
eternal talon
honestly, specimen 22 looks like a NAM-V patient. white skin, bruising, frail bo...
in that context we were talking about the bruises and how specimen 22 can't be the mimic
since schaeffer beats the ever loving shit out of it
and that kind of trauma isn't found on 22.
finite vine
in that context we were talking about the bruises and how specimen 22 can't be t...
yea i’m suggesting what else specimen 22 could be (besides the mimic)
eternal talon
and in regards to th wrdn sending us a message, it'd certainly be more viable and less resource intensive, since we as the squad wouldn't know the mimic was the wrdn in the first place were it true
so it likely wouldn't even work
it'd make the squad distrust schaeffer more, yes, but it wouldn't make them trust the WRDN any more than they already do.
finite vine
well how would the warden taking over a human husk to try to contact us be any better? if the warden really wants to contact us, he can easily.
eternal talon
well how would the warden taking over a human husk to try to contact us be any b...
that's what i said?
finite vine
so it likely wouldn't even work
oh ok you said here that using the mimic would likely not work. it was hard for me to tell if you were agreeing with me or not.
eternal talon
INTERESTING @analog frigate
on the topic of the butterfly nebula, and Destination's star
finite vine
what’s interesting about that.
eternal talon
^
we were talking alot about it's star a couple months ago
this is the central star of the butterfly nebula
finite vine
I don’t think white dwarfs emit any radiation? if they have stoped burning their fuel then they stop producing radiation.
through fusion.
finite vine
well what would a white dwarf look like in person?
probably just a low light version of our current sun.
eternal talon
well what would a white dwarf look like in person?
EXACTLY what the "moon" looks like in d1
huh. weird. this news article i got this picture from goes to a 404
finite vine
idk that seems like some random artwork off google images. you also have to think about what the planets atmosphere would do the incoming light.
eternal talon
look, this is the best i can do okay?
i don't own universe sandbox 2
i can't get an accurate simulation for you
finite vine
lol I’m not trying to criticize you
just saying that it might be a complicated answer.
also we have to think about what you said about the nebula. why can’t we see the nebula in d1?
eternal talon
also we have to think about what you said about the nebula. why can’t we see the...
we can't see anything in d1's sky at all
1 sec. i have pics
finite vine
yep
finite vine
also a nebula suggests that a giant explosion happened, which probably destroyed a solar system in the process.
so the coordinates might not be of planet alpha, but of something completely different.
eternal talon
that's where the coordinates go
somebody said the went to the very centerpoint
so.. the middle of the star
finite vine
no yea i’m not doubting that the coordinates go to the butterfly nebula.
solar nova
also a nebula suggests that a giant explosion happened, which probably destroyed...
Depends on if life could survive that, and if life on the planet appeared before or after the nebular.
eternal talon
well, it was 65 million years ago minimum,
finite vine
Depends on if life could survive that, and if life on the planet appeared before...
true
eternal talon
what was the state of the nebula then?
solar nova
well, it was 65 million years ago minimum,
What was? The nebula?
finite vine
What was? The nebula?
yea
eternal talon
What was? The nebula?
the meteor from destination hitting earth
65 million years ago.
so it had to have been from before then
finite vine
I thought there was a source that said the nebula occurred around 65 million years ago?
eternal talon
it had to have lasted intact from then to now
solar nova
Ah
eternal talon
I thought there was a source that said the nebula occurred around 65 million yea...
sauce???
if so that's pretty big
finite vine
the meteor from destination hitting earth
we don’t know if the meteor has anything to do with the nebula.
eternal talon
we don’t know if the meteor has anything to do with the nebula.
not the nebula, destination
finite vine
you are confusing me lol
eternal talon
which presumably is in the nebula, otherwise why else have the coords to there
the meteor came from destination
destination is in the nebula
finite vine
the meteor came from destination
we don’t know that...
eternal talon
if the meteor landed on earth 65 million years ago-
eternal talon
we don’t know that...
really? where else did it come from?
occam's razor, it's basically impossible for it NOT to have been from destination
it's not like there is another giant nebula out there we have direct coordinates to
solar nova
we don’t know that...
It very likely did, or at least the allens have been to destination.
finite vine
It very likely did, or at least the allens have been to destination.
yea I will not disagree with that.
eternal talon
if the meteor landed on earth 65 million years ago-
if it landed on earth 65 million years ago,
and destination is still impact now,
solar nova
Although it is very possible we'll visit more destinations later on.
eternal talon
since we teleport there,
nothing major could have happened in the nebula
you said you read somewhere that the nebula formed in the first place 65 million years ago?
where?
finite vine
Although it is very possible we'll visit more destinations later on.
yea. those coordinates to the butterfly nebula might be of a place of future interest.
finite vine
you said you read somewhere that the nebula formed in the first place 65 million...
I didn’t read it. I thought someone said that, I could be mistaken though.
solar nova
Can't find any info on Google with a quick skim
My guess is that the nebula is very old, though, potentially billions of years old.
finite vine
occam's razor, it's basically impossible for it NOT to have been from destinatio...
the universe is a very big place and the MWP transports things faster than the speed of light. it could of came from anywhere tbh. but destination alpha is the #1 candidate for its origin, so far.
eternal talon
regardless, we've got a star at minimum 20-30% of the way to being a white dwarf in the center..
and the sky is empty
subtle verge
if the warden really did want to communicate with us why does he have to use spe...
Honestly, I'm not entirely sure. Part of me wants to believe that it was an attempt to allow itself the ability to roam freely and gain more information on its own accord away from the strict need for the BIOCOM system or the limited info from the squads it sends out. Another part of me wonders if it was a test to see how the KSOs would react to something like that. I can't rightly say. I have more thoughts, but don't want to flood them out until I really think on them.
As I said previously, an attempt to appeal to the emotional/human side of us versus a directive.
eternal talon
Honestly, I'm not entirely sure. Part of me wants to believe that it was an atte...
Look at the state specimen 22 is in, at that rate, it'd fall apart and it's bones would snap years before it would have found the squad alive
We only find it because WRDN sends us to go find it, and once we do, we leave
No additional info
I'd think then more than any would be a good time for an emotional speel while looking over a broken and battered corpse to say "Schaeffer is bad, he did this"
But that isn't the case.
At this point already, Schaeffer is directly talking to the squad through logs pretty much and the WRDN autta be being desperate to not lose its MVP squad
But no, wrdn could have spun that encounter any way it wanted and the squad wouldn't have been any the wiser, but it did nothing
Simply check to see if it was dead, then directing us to forward extraction
Pretty unceremoniously, don't you think?
I hope I could convince you with that, that it just don't make any sense for that to be the case. It had all the opportunity in the world, but it didn't even try
serene fractal
I hadn't really considered this until now but I think this may be the case. We w...
Way too many new messages to read through all of them but since we seem to have somewhat circled back to the topic, I'd like to bring this up again
subtle verge
Look at the state specimen 22 is in, at that rate, it'd fall apart and it's bone...
Hold on, though, this is the same creature that was allegedly torn apart by the sleepers according to the very first log.
And also somehow survived talking to a Scout which triggered it to scream.
eternal talon
Hold on, though, this is the same creature that was allegedly torn apart by the ...
You are assuming it is the mimic, which we have no evidence for. If anything, I've heard people theorize its the neonate
subtle verge
It's literally the same voice, is it not?
eternal talon
We've never heard s22's voice... so no.
subtle verge
I.. I don't think there is anything else that Schaeffer beat to death on HearSay. But I guess I'll believe what I wish to believe.
eternal talon
He killed either the, or a, mimic of that is sure
It's speech patterns are identical to the c2 logs
It is also so hard not to die laughing every time I hear it screaming in the background of that dx log
Absolutely hilarious
it reminds me SO much of that one borderlands 2 recording with jack scooping out the guy's eyes with a spoon and the guy goes wailing "waaaaaaaaaaaaa"
@0:47
eternal talon
I.. I don't think there is anything else that Schaeffer beat to death on HearSay...
oh, he also calls it a "mutant"
subtle verge
All I have else to say is: "white skin, like covered in ash, and a voice that wasn't its own."
eternal talon
All I have else to say is: "white skin, like covered in ash, and a voice that wa...
we haven't heard it speak.
subtle verge
Whatever floats your boat, my guy. ⛵
eternal talon
Whatever floats your boat, my guy. ⛵
@0:37
does s22 look "almost human, almost" to you, or does it look human?
checkmate.
subtle verge
I mean... yeah, yea it does look almost human. It's synthetic.
eternal talon
while malnourished, this is still clearly identifiable as a human
finite vine
I haven’t played DX yet. we’re there any HSU’s near where s22 was found? s22 might of came from a nearby HSU. he’s wearing that green spandex stuff.
eternal talon
I haven’t played DX yet. we’re there any HSU’s near where s22 was found? s22 mig...
nothing. it's a giant data vault
completely sealed tight.
finite vine
where is the terminal that has the log where schaeffer kills the mimic? is it near s22?
eternal talon
where is the terminal that has the log where schaeffer kills the mimic? is it ne...
none. it's played when you teleport to destination beneath alpha three, roughly
finite vine
ah ok.
eternal talon
but if you had to pick one, the uplink terminal a could of zones down
eternal talon
I mean... yeah, yea it does look almost human. It's synthetic.
what makes you think it's synthetic?
a synthetic humanoid wouldn't be in that state.
who'd make an intentionally malnourished looking synth?
strong solstice
because it's tough to make a perfectly healthy one?
eternal talon
because it's tough to make a perfectly healthy one?
a synth isn't alive, you know that, right? synthetic, "made by chemical synthesis, especially to imitate a natural product: "synthetic rubber"
finite vine
yea it looks odd, almost human.
eternal talon
yea it looks odd, almost human.
i beg you, PLEASE don't make me share pictures of malnourished people
this is naturally what it looks like
subtle verge
Its right arm is missing the forearm, its hands are massive to its body size, it has an insanely long neck, its elbows protrude much further than any malnourished human I've ever seen, and I've seen a lot with my background in humanitarian aid.
I'm willing to give you the benefit of a doubt.
Also we have logs that talk about the RISE project with embryo growth.
eternal talon
subtle verge
That being said, a lot of it is very vague and missing a lot of crucial detail.