gtfo-lore

[dim scroll]

Yet strangely there is no shadow big shooter or shadow hybrid

gameplay ig

[ashen jay]

Why would they grow horns during a mutation only to revert?

[solar nova]

People called them hybrids because they had some striker-like characteristics (animations and a melee attack).

Back-end, they're "big_shooter_rapidfire".

[final sentinel]

no clue

just a thought bc they both have stealth features

[ashen jay]

Chargers aren't stealthy, they're just black

[analog frigate]

well yeah, from a gameplay standpoint shadow hybrids would be complete hell, but also from a genetic standpoint, maybe it just dies from too many mutations occurring at once

[final sentinel]

two separate lines of strikers evolving in parallel diverged to create chargers and shadows respectively

[analog frigate]

also hybrids aren't a mix of striker and shooter

they are primarily shooter

[final sentinel]

all just theories

[ashen jay]

We went over that

[analog frigate]

but have the ability to swing their arms around like big strikers and chargers

[final sentinel]

yeah with the multiattack

[analog frigate]

it seems more like a mix of charger and shooter

[final sentinel]

i know that attack well...

[analog frigate]

due to the darker skin pigmentation, apparent spikes and their bigger shooter attack could be another "upgrade" from the genetic mix

[solar nova]

I dunno about mutations btw.

[analog frigate]

especially fun when they phase shift

[analog frigate]

that's the only possibility

evolution takes too long

[solar patio]

there also aren't any charger shooters. or shooter derivatives.

[solar nova]

They seem to operate together, as a colony unit, which would imply they're just highly polymorphic.

[eternal talon]

this isn't osha compliant

[analog frigate]

there are theorised shooter derivatives, the mainly thought of one being the scout

there are a lot of similarities between them

[solar patio]

likely because both shadows and chargers seem to be derived from standard strikers

mmm but both scout's still appear to be striker based

[analog frigate]

why would scouts be striker based?

[eternal talon]

they are like 95% big shooter

with 5% spaghett

[analog frigate]

they fire projectiles, have a female physique and match up with the location where the tentacles come out from

[final sentinel]

scouts are not striker based im sorry

[full oar]

sadly

[solar nova]

It seems more like scouts are a particular adaptation that sleepers in general have (tentacles, mainly), and it can be expressed in different forms. They don't seem to be specifically strikers or shooters.

[final sentinel]

they are basicallly shooters with noodles

[solar patio]

all chargers have the big belly tumor thing that strikers hav

no

not all scouts

[analog frigate]

since i believe punkthulhu said some time ago that there was a spot on that exact location on their neck

[solar patio]

just charger and shadow ones

[final sentinel]

tank scout kek

mother scout

[analog frigate]

it again goes back to the hive theory

if a scout is needed, the shooter genetically mutates to fit the purpose

[solar nova]

Again, polymorphism is not a genetic mutation.

It's all there.

It's just not always expressed.

[analog frigate]

as i said prior, just because it's a mutation doesn't mean it's not on purpose

a mutation specifies a sudden change in genes that could either be to fit some purpose or accidental

[analog frigate]

oh yeah i'm stupid

epigenetics

[solar nova]

Okay, was gonna say.

[analog frigate]

the genes are already there, just not activated by certain qualities of the environment

[solar nova]

Actually, is polymorphism considered to be epigenetic?

I know epigenetics was kind of hip and new a few years back.

[analog frigate]

technically yes

[solar patio]

Hmm, maybe sometimes but it also isn't a mutation when a hive determines which ants are to be soldiers or queens or something. It's just the hive determining what is required for survival

[analog frigate]

since epigenetics work on the principle that certain genes exist in every example of the species, but aren't activated unless certain changes in the environment occur

which could be either a change in climate, when seasons change, or some manually triggered change, like a release of certain hormones

for example, iirc all ants have the dna needed to become basically every other type of ant needed

before birth, certain hormones/neurotransmitters (?) get released as to dictate which genes will get activated, therefore specifying the purpose of that ant

e.g. it could have genes relating to size and strength increases be active and become a soldier ant, or some different ones and become a worker ant

[final sentinel]

Or a tentacle ant

[analog frigate]

in this case yeah, it's possible

explains the similarities between shooters and scouts

they are basically the same thing, just scouts had the genes to "mutate" themselves tentacles

[solar patio]

This seems like something similar to what's happening

[solar patio]

Although different from ants, the sleepers are building off of a sexually dimorphic species, so that explains why certain varients have to be of a certain sex

Like maybe there are certain hormones or base fast twitch muscle fibers or just basic muscular struture that is required to get the supreme muscle mass of giants

[analog frigate]

that's another similarity to humans

since we are based off different sexes, both of them have different genes

[subtle verge]

Part of me wonders if they are naturally asexual and evolve/mutate/morph into whatever the colony is in most need of at that moment in time

I remember Lilliana made the asexual assumption a good while back.

[analog frigate]

the actual species? yes. the reason there is diversity is due to them being based off a human base

[solar patio]

Right so they basically work with what they have, male and female hosts could have different pros and cons

[solar patio]

Yup it's likely asexual species bonding with a sexually dimorphic one

[analog frigate]

they copied genes from us, therefore leading to them becoming sexually distinct, essentially copying us

[solar patio]

Although I guess we don't know that for sure about the parasites.

We don't know how those reproduce do we?

[analog frigate]

we can assume they would be asexual since there is no reason they would have any

[analog frigate]

the parasite itself? nope

there isn't any proof of the reproductive genes of humans being transferred over

except in the mothers

those take up the female genes of giving birth or at least have a derivative of it

i would guess that they just produce an amniotic sack that is hard enough to survive just attached to the wall

[solar patio]

they could also use their hosts to create wombs within the humans bodies and that changes the nature of the new parasite, like the newborn in alien 4(that trainwreck lol) could explain different varients.

[analog frigate]

it would make sense genetically since then it would be able to give birth to more than only a couple sleepers at a time

[dull crest]

Today in lorechat: sleepers reproduction

[elfin willow]

Back, I don't really mean to continue this but I mostly meant that since some of the were humans before they transformed into sleepers, I'd imagine that the reason they were in the fetal position(hand over ears) and standing while hands clasped(praying), was that they were doing those things before transformation, or that there limited intelligence before transformation has left remnant thoughts in their mind being absorbed by fear of whatever eldritch creature they saw. Tbf though, I don't really read much of the lore, this is just speculation purely from just running through levels.

[analog frigate]

well it isn't the first time

[solar patio]

Yup, so they don't directly just produce their own offspring they could use the hosts

[analog frigate]

and probably not the last

[solar patio]

Lol sleeper sex Ed is interesting

[solar patio]

You guys are the ones who made such an interesting structure of symbiotic life

[subtle verge]

I more mean: I wonder if they remain asexual even through their various evolutionary paths regardless of what copied genes they obtained. For example, Mothers/Birthers are just a name, although they have the ability to create spawn. However, I wonder if that is just the most viable form to either reproduce or clone the most simple genetic code to create the spawn.

I'm not wording it the way I'm thinking about it, I guess.

[analog frigate]

well it's good that you're interested in the lore, but it just wouldn't make sense for them to have much of anything besides instinct. the last thing they would see is a wave of sleepers going at them, so i would suppose they would be scared, but not to the extent where that memory could be left. strikers for example appear to have very limited capability to do anything since their nervous system have been degraded to almost nothing due to the split in their head. shooters could be the same story except it's related to the "eggs" that they have on the inside. generally sleepers exhibit nothing more than basic primal instincts, but then we get into psychology which would just be a lost cause to discuss.

one fair mention though is the difference between the one on the new planet we go to, and the humanoid ones back home. the new ones appear to exhibit much more intelligence.

of course, this is all variable on your definition on intelligence

[solar patio]

I think I get what you mean. I think it's more than possible that the parasites remain the same or similar but I don't know if they just solely clone their own DNA, these parasites seem to have realized a lot of benefits from using other life to change their species over time and one of the biggest downsides of asexual reproduction tends to be that they lack the ability to adapt to new stimuli, as they just make exact copies.

[analog frigate]

sleepers have the ability to work together as a hive, that could count as intelligence

[elfin willow]

well, an ant is intelligent in its own way

[analog frigate]

it's technically cloning of sorts. what it appears to be is a genetic base, a modified mix between their original dna and a host's, which then works as a base to create spawn off of

[elfin willow]

Think it'd be fitting to separate intelligence and sentience

[analog frigate]

exactly, just depends on your definitions

[analog frigate]

well if you find an answer to that question, you'll have made a scientific breakthrough in psychology and biology

the answer to intelligence and sentience has been pondered upon for a long time

sadly we are limited by the knowledge of our time, so can't really give an answer, there just isn't one yet

[solar patio]

Wow today in lorechat: psychological ponderings of the human condition

[elfin willow]

Well, if we just go with a simple obviously incorrect and presumptuous definition of 'sentience', we can at least say 'humans' would define sentience.

[analog frigate]

not really anything special, we've had some more peculiar discussions. very long as well

[elfin willow]

Whales, dolphins, orcas, and apes all have varying degrees of intelligence, almost borderline sentient or perhaps sentient

[analog frigate]

well if you want to go that wide spread, then sleepers probably aren't sentient

just a sort of hive

[solar patio]

Yeah dolphins are much more sentient then sleepers

[elfin willow]

I'd agree with that

completely

[subtle verge]

I like to run with the concept of sapience vs sentience: self-awareness, marked by a higher level of cognition.

[analog frigate]

also we haven't seen the capabilities of sleepers

[subtle verge]

But that's one of the hundreds of definitions between the two.

[analog frigate]

mainly just run, scream and tongue

[analog frigate]

probably thousands

[solar patio]

I guess I'd say sleepers are actually probably less sentient then most mammals considering that they act as kind of singular consciousness

[analog frigate]

ah, they aren't a hive mind

that wouldn't work out

[solar patio]

Not exactly

We've talked about ut

But they do exist in some similar ways

[analog frigate]

they are more of a hive than a hive mind

they communicate commonly but don't think as one

[solar patio]

@subtle verge had a whole thing about exactly what they are.

[analog frigate]

if they did, waking one would wake absolutely everything else instantly

[subtle verge]

My thought process on the sleepers weren't a singular consciousness or hivemind, it was based around pure instinctual will for survival with the use of pheromonal stimuli.

[solar patio]

Right exactly, there was a whole thing about pheromones and how they communicate roles to each other and all that

Yeah

[analog frigate]

yup

[subtle verge]

Akin to ants, or bees, or wasps, etc.

[solar patio]

It would be nice if we could save all these ideas that seem most concrete so we didn't have the same discussion over and over lol

Like a little blog thing, maybe there is one I dunno

[analog frigate]

well that would require rewriting the sleeper analysis

and that will take a looong time

took multiple weeks of discussion and a couple days of writing for 3 people to do it

[subtle verge]

I'd be down to help rewrite it, however I think it needs to be officially written by one person instead of 2-3-4.

[analog frigate]

as to not have any writing style differences and inaccuracies like the current one

[solar patio]

Yup, other people could do ideas and sourcing and stuff

Yup

[subtle verge]

That way verbiage and vernacular stays consistent, and different sections wouldn't contradict each other.

[solar patio]

Speculation does have a way of contradicting itself

[analog frigate]

i might get around to doing it

although we will need the help of dr. grem

for information that is

[elfin willow]

ants

are the best definition of a sleeper

imo

[subtle verge]

Honestly, I don't think it will take too terribly long. We can just remove the things that we've disproven and things that don't make sense, and we can just rewrite those sections.

[elfin willow]

big, meaty ants

[analog frigate]

also lower the jargon on some sections

[solar patio]

Yeah I was just reading through it

Definitely interesting

[analog frigate]

it's quite outdated

[solar patio]

Although some parts seem very speculative

[analog frigate]

it was written during the later parts of r5

[solar patio]

Very*

[analog frigate]

during the great lore depression of r5, there wasn't much you could do but speculate

proving something was incredibly difficult

a couple people managed to scramble things together to get some topics to discuss and prove/disprove at least

[solar patio]

Right, that's fair enough

Considering how much speculation is here it would be interesting to have certain parts present multiple probable theories if that much exists.

[solar carbon]

[astral grove]

anyone have a list of some of the voice lines people got?

[subtle verge]

Last I knew of a list, there was one in #gtfo-chat the day it happened. I'm not sure if anyone has updated it, however.

[eternal talon]

"of course they're reading our letters" was mine

[cobalt mulch]

"i blame myself.. no, i blame you."

[quick grove]

You've got only your self to blame

[harsh saffron]

#general message
Here's one list of the lines.

[astral flax]

where is fnaf role???

[dull crest]

Mommy? Daddy?

[solar carbon]

Yeah

Since it’s assumed shooters are female and strikers male humans at first

[final sentinel]

wait really? thats cool

so could there be a mother shooter?

:3

[solar carbon]

Idk

[final sentinel]

that idea I had of a mother that launches tumors is gonna come back to haunt me

[lilac island]

Well assumed is a nice way of putting: Shooters are curvy strikers are not. I would like to find some lore about the difference in the disease's effects on males and females... Sounds sciency!

[solar carbon]

@eternal talon

[solar carbon]

Sleepers are parasites

Humans infected

But can also reproduce on their own

Via mothers and ceiling sacks

Etc

[final sentinel]

wait maybe that is something to do with it, the gender of the infected person

[lilac island]

Yeah

[solar carbon]

Ye

[final sentinel]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

bc shooters don't have the worm in their stomach like the strikers do

[solar carbon]

True

[final sentinel]

what if it's in their head and scouts are just thinking outside the box

[solar carbon]

[lilac island]

Oh yeah where do scouts fit in to the equation? They have both toungy and shooty

[solar carbon]

What no

They don’t have tongues

[final sentinel]

I don't think the feelers qualify as tongues

[solar carbon]

Feelers arent tongues

[lilac island]

Well tenticles

shoot

[final sentinel]

tentclees

[solar carbon]

Think of it as the uh

Floater noodles

[final sentinel]

"We are noodlefolk

"Infection runs in our veins"

[subtle verge]

It's assumed that the parasite is able to read the genetic code of the host and is able to manipulate or replicate that code into specific roles that the colony/hive may need. Male hosts have a very high chance at becoming strikers, big strikers, titans, etc. while female hosts have a higher chance at becoming shooters, hybrids, mothers, etc.

This is pure speculation and theory, as we have zero proof or evidence to support the claim.

[quick grove]

Hmm

[full hull]

Hmm, if the idea is male female creates the shooter striker seperation, what are hybrids?

Hybrids seem to be more shooter than striker so maybe they are from muscular women?

[dim scroll]

probably a heavily mutated giant shooter/regular shooter

[uncut void]

It's all speculative, so it's whatever you want the answer to be. Hybrids could also just be what the virus deemed necessary or it could be a further mutation. Maybe shooters that stick around too long become hybrids.

[smoky sigil]

isn’t that large mobs are birthed?

not mutated strait

[dim scroll]

I expect large mobs to be evolutions

rather than being birthed tbh

[uncut void]

I don't think logs have given us really anything on the infected other than they are products of NAM-V.

I've read every text log but I've not finished audio logs.

They talk a lot about NAM-V but it's nearly entirely about the early stages of the virus when it was giving flu-like symptoms. There is however 1 log about shadows specifically.

I've taken that as shadows being the base form, with no host body. That would also explain why shadows are squishy.

[smoky sigil]

how they scream doe

[uncut void]

From there I would assume shooters and strikers are what would come next, but there are shadow scouts and shadow bigglys so I guess that theory doesn't make sense

Don't have an answer for ya there. Them being able to scream and the existence of shadow scouts runs counter to my theory. Neither of those should be possible if I were right.

Although Shadow Scouts have striker heads, which is another oddity as scouts are usually shooters.

[smoky sigil]

btw since NAM-V is a pandemic cause it spread to the outside world

doesn’t that mean there will be sleepers all around the world

[uncut void]

Yes. It started I Garganta but spread to the US and Mexico then globally.

[full hull]

Shadow -> shooter
Shadow -> striker
Shadow -> shadow scout -> scout -> charger scout
Shadow -> shadow giant -> striker giant
shadow giant -> shooter giant

[dim scroll]

The thing is it mentions a 100% mortality rate with NAM-V

[uncut void]

It's also insanely infectious

Logs 4 days apart have just a few reported cases in the UK to the entire medical system being overwhelmed with cases.

[smoky sigil]

i feel like the scout comes from the shooter, not the shadow

[dim scroll]

Shadows are probably not an early state

Rather heavily-mutated sleepers

[smoky sigil]

ye

[dim scroll]

You almost always meet them in very dark places

[uncut void]

The only problem with this is shadow scouts have striker heads and scouts have shooter heads.

[smoky sigil]

not in R6

[dim scroll]

Hence why i said "almost always"

Since i include everything starting from R1

[uncut void]

Brother they happily wait for you in R6

[full hull]

True, was just making a chart that could support their theory

[uncut void]

Dive deeper, they're there

[dim scroll]

In R6D3 the shadows from the shadow error are supposedly appearing from the ceiling

So it may be a dark place as well

[smoky sigil]

w-w-w-we’ve met before

go deeper i said

remember?

[full hull]

Schaffner is a shadow

[uncut void]

Confirmed

[smoky sigil]

how will they remember, won’t or can’t

wait

[quick grove]

scheaffer*

[dim scroll]

Schaeffer*

[smoky sigil]

did the warden send you here to kill me?

makes sense

[uncut void]

Thoughts on Warden

[smoky sigil]

send a killer to catch a killer

[dim scroll]

AI

edgy

[uncut void]

AI, Person, or from the Fossil

[dim scroll]

It's an AI

[full hull]

New theory, Scheaffner is at the bottom of the kraken pit, it's probably the deepest area we have seen

[smoky sigil]

no

[quick grove]

emo chick

[uncut void]

Yes

[smoky sigil]

schoefree is in coomplex

[dim scroll]

We don't even know if schaeffer is still alive lol

[uncut void]

Warden 100% wears fishnets.

[dim scroll]

in R4 he was supposedly alive

[full hull]

The warden is just some dude stuck at a dead end job, but he can't quit because they haven't found anyone to replace him

[dim scroll]

Because of how we pursue him

[uncut void]

He seems to be speaking to us in the present tense in R6A1

[dim scroll]

In R5 & R6 we don't know shit

wtf ?

why would you ping mods for that ?

[full hull]

Dude, mods don't know shit

Only devs know anything

[vestal delta]

🤨

[dim scroll]

Well they got the ping

😳

[uncut void]

🤔

[full hull]

Ping the devs dont

Trying to fake ghost ping mods is probably a bad idea

[shut mountain]

It is indeed not a good idea :D

[vestal delta]

Trying to fake ghost ping~~ mods ~~is probably a bad idea

[full hull]

Anyway back to lore discussion, what were we talking about again?

[shut mountain]

Also we are mods, not devs so we know about the lore as much as you do. Cannot confirm nor deny anything

[dim scroll]

Schaeffer and its whereabouts

[uncut void]

Fishnets. Just kidding whether Warden is an AI and what their intentions are.

And also schaeffer

[dim scroll]

Ravenna can you grant me access to #warden-lewd-pics ?

😳

She gone

nvm

[shut mountain]

No

[dim scroll]

w h y

[shut mountain]

As in no I'm not gone

[full hull]

The warden made up Schaeffer to convince us to go deeper

[shut mountain]

Also can't give access, sorry

[dim scroll]

Implying it exists

[shut mountain]

It might

[uncut void]

Warden lewds are just pictures of circuits.

[shut mountain]

It might not

[vestal delta]

its only as real as admin furry stash channel

anyway that gtfo game huh?

got some real lore

[uncut void]

Oh yeah Warden show me that hot m.2 port

[vestal delta]

like that chaffing dude

[full hull]

Warden lewds is a worthless channel, shirtless Schaeffer on the other hand

[vestal delta]

i dunno i never played it

[shut mountain]

Do keep try to lore theories somewhat serious there thou however ;) Channel description says so, description is above me so even I must obey it's rules

[dim scroll]

oke

[shut mountain]

The Warden is always watching

🤫

[uncut void]

I think Schaeffer is alive, I also don't think Warden cares to harm Schaeffer

[dim scroll]

@native shell Come watch me closer

[uncut void]

Warden has some kind of objective but seems generally ambivalent

[dim scroll]

We don't know what the WRDN program does

Aside that it completely messed up BIOCOM

[uncut void]

Injects a lot of .exes in D3

He does that for sure to a console

[dim scroll]

And i'm quite certain such a program isn't made under a month

So either it's supposed to grant admin privilege to whoever made it (in that case that would be possible and someone might still be alive to give directives)

[shut mountain]

I just wanna know who made the warden Someone had to

[dim scroll]

Or someone literally predicted the outbreak

In that case GGWP

[uncut void]

When you power down the reactor in d3 overload Warden injects a LOT of commands so it's still not in full control

[dim scroll]

It does the same in R5D1

Hence why there is an alarm

same goes to R1D1

It needs to recover accesses but we dunno why

[uncut void]

Yeah. Im assuming all Rundowns are chronological but I guess we can't really prove that either.

[dim scroll]

They are chronological

and you can prove it easily

The objectives of a rundown almost always serve a purpose for the next rundown

[uncut void]

How so? Logs jump around times pretty erratically

[full hull]

Each rundown's story runs off the last

[uncut void]

Yeah. That is fair

[dim scroll]

R2 was about retrieving the neonate

R3 was about extracting data from the neonate

[uncut void]

I guess I'm just going off logs instead of objectives which give us a better timeline for right now.

[dim scroll]

R4 was about R4E1's reactor to gain access to R5's sector

[uncut void]

Hadn't considered it

[smoky sigil]

R1 was about getting to R2

[dim scroll]

along with meeting schaeffer

R5 was about waking up the HSUs in R5E1

[uncut void]

R6 is about giving Nemesis a big Ole hug

But he declines

[dim scroll]

No

More about deciphering the genome database

[smoky sigil]

R4-5 is about like general maintenance or something

[uncut void]

And fires mortars at you. I know it's about the matterwave projector

[dim scroll]

hence why you look for encryption keys in D2

datacubes might serve to locate alpha two

[full hull]

Extracting the genome database rather, we didn't even have it before

[smoky sigil]

R6 is about visiting every room in the complex that has all its lights on

[dim scroll]

woohoo

D4 isn't worth lore-wise according to doc

Considering how messed up it is

[full hull]

Generally lore is only the 1 levels no?

[dim scroll]

no ?

[full hull]

The primary expeditions

[dim scroll]

primary expeditions weren't a thing before R6

[smoky sigil]

1s are focussed on lore

[dim scroll]

And like i said D2 is after D1

since you're looking for the encryption keys

[smoky sigil]

others just have snipits of lore

[uncut void]

I mean the 1s in r6 are lore driven but the logs are the real meat on the bone

[dim scroll]

^

R5 had tons of logs

[full hull]

True

[dim scroll]

and it helped figure out that warden is an AI

Along with NAM-V & the pandemic

[uncut void]

I'm not clear where the matterwave projector is taking us. Stokes logs and what we know seems we are dimension hopping but I don't think we are

[dim scroll]

According to the rundown map it's dimension hopping

Well

[uncut void]

I think we teleporting and it's connected to Red Alpha

That shits just Mars.

[dim scroll]

is the rundown map even worth in term of lore

[full hull]

Dimension hopping or planet hopping?

[dim scroll]

both probably

[smoky sigil]

lore nerds will be at your house in 4 days

[dim scroll]

red alpha has oxygen somehow

same gravity as earth

[full hull]

Yes

[uncut void]

Yeah all that makes it not Mars

[dim scroll]

Same temp as earth as well

[uncut void]

But that shits still just Mars

Lore mentions 3 planets

Earth Mars and a moon of Saturn

[dim scroll]

if it was a moon of saturn the desert would be completely dark

considering how far we are from the sun

[smoky sigil]

mars could be completely separated to red alpha

[uncut void]

Right but if we end up on something that looks like Enceladus

In like r7

[dim scroll]

Temperature would yeet your soul as well

[smoky sigil]

like there were mars missions but they are t red alpha

[quick grove]

one of juipters moons

[uncut void]

The logs mention Enceladus by name which is a moon of Saturn

[full hull]

We don't know, we could have remotely terraformed Mars

Which we probably would do before sending people to live on it

[solar nova]

Lmfao, fuck no.

That tech is clearly not available in-universe.

[full hull]

True

[uncut void]

I mean would it have been remote? We know of the failed manned mission in 2028

Aka red alpha

We know Esa cut ties with KDS after Red Alpha, but 30 years have passed between then and now

We also know before Red Alpha ESA wanted to see about using HSUs to reach Enceladus

That (I assume) never happened because of Red Alpha going horrible and ESA learning of the side effects of HSU use, but it is when Enceladus is mentioned by name as a goal for the ESA to reach

[solar nova]

Terraforming is extremely out there as far as technology goes.

[uncut void]

Meaning in this timeline something there is worth reaching over like Titan which in our world would be much more interesting and the same distance

Also (one more piece of my Mars rant)

[solar nova]

Even if we could do it, it would be a very large undertaking and might even take multiple hundreds of years to accomplish once we'd started.

[dim scroll]

Speaking of time

we don't know how time flows on red alpha

iirc the black crystals are supposed to affect time (elongating or shortening it)

If they are in great quantities on red alpha you may slow down or accelerate time then

[solar nova]

I don't think we know what the crystals (probably cretasium) do rn, other than they are used in the MWP.

[uncut void]

In our timeline chicxulub hit Jupiter's orbit before breaking in to pieces. One of those pieces hit the Yucantan peninsula causing the dinosaur extinction. It's possible other pieces went in other directions. Maybe hitting Mars and Enceladus

[full hull]

The black crystals are just the new element we discovered no?

[dim scroll]

ye

[solar nova]

While this would be interesting, it wouldn't be related to the in-universe Mars mission.

[uncut void]

Irl we don't know what happened to the other pieces of Chicxulub because it was hundreds of millions of years ago, but would it be unreasonable to say that the virus is on other plants bored deep in to their surface like on Earth?

[dim scroll]

and we know they can be used for teleports (quantum tethering)

[uncut void]

Perhaps the solution to NAM-V is deep inside Mars.

[dim scroll]

Be it for us (MWP) or enemies (floaters which have crystals on their back)

[solar nova]

This is something Daraxus says. However, I don't think it's actually true.

I'm not really sure what crystal he's referring to.

[dim scroll]

cretasium crystals

They do have some

[solar nova]

On the enemy model

?

Where?

[dim scroll]

yes

behind (back)

[solar nova]

It's not visible on snails.

[uncut void]

Floaters just rip a fat huff of Helium off screen. This is cannon lore I have declared right now.

[analog frigate]

they aren't cretasium

the crystals are highly unlikely to be cretasium

[dim scroll]

how come ?

[analog frigate]

they appear to be a different material occurring on the new planet

[dim scroll]

Except if my mind is messed up, i thought they were black ?

[analog frigate]

there has been extensive contact with cretasium

workers, researchers ect

no one suddenly teleported like those two workers that mishandled a crystal sample

[uncut void]

I'm telling ya brother. It's all Mars and part of chicxulub hit Mars after breaking apart on Jupiter's orbit. Mark my words.

[full hull]

Now that the topic is flyers I am once again asking for the ability to c-foam flyers out of the sky

[solar nova]

Okay, but why would Cretasium necessarily teleport anyone?

Seems like it's specifically whatever the data blocks and MWP are doing.

[uncut void]

Red Alpha is gonna be the 🔑

[solar nova]

And we know Cretasium is used in those.

[dim scroll]

There is probably a condition for it to teleport

[uncut void]

We do and we also know materials don't have as immediate a violent reaction with it. Like silicon as mentioned by name in lore. Hey did you know the second most common element on Mars is silicon?

Red sands.

Silicon resist Cretasium.

Mars most common solid is Silicon

Red Alpha.

Chicxulub broke apart on Jupiter's orbit.

I officially Stan Mars theories.

[dim scroll]

In any case

How tf would scientists not detect floaters or kraken on Mars then ?

You'd expect them to do more than what we can do currently since the game is set in the future

[solar nova]

"We're looking into the possibility that the behavior of the artifacts may be inhibited or regulated in some manner by cretasium 77-a. It has been found in large quantities throughout the fossil and it's the only material that does not disappear when introduced to the- [...]" -Stokes, 2nd log

"The resin does temporarily block the jump effect, so that has helped. It decays pretty quickly as the cretasium eats through it, but it means we can actually touch the artifacts at least." -Stokes, 3rd log

[full hull]

Team Mars theory

[full hull]

They were sleeping deep below the surface and we woke them up

[solar nova]

Oh, she's been there almost a full year for the final log, so that's almost certainly sometime in 2055 based on the "Make your move" log.

[full hull]

See: the giant hole the kraken comes out of

[solar nova]

For real, though, where tf is the crystal on fliers?

I'm pretty sure there is none.

[dim scroll]

these ?

Although like daraxus said it's more like a material affected by cretasium

rather than solid crystals

[uncut void]

Those are scabs from bad scalp care. Donate now so floaters can afford medicated shampoo.

[solar nova]

It just seems to me like these are probably standard-ish growths on sleepers.

Unless the suggestion is that these are mineral deposits collecting in these tumor-like protrusions.

But it looks a lot like chargers or hybrids to me.

[uncut void]

The deposits on shooters and hybrids seem more metallic while these seem almost mineral like

[dim scroll]

Looks a lot more bulkier than chargers' protrusions tbh

[uncut void]

I would assume they are some mineral variant of Cretasium? Maybe it's what allows them to "jump" back with us from Definitely MarsTM

[dim scroll]

Basically their head is facing upward

while what we see in front of us is their lower jaw

[final sentinel]

So ig the growths forced their heads up?

Like facing up, not actually lifted it

[uncut void]

Possible. Also unclear what created the chargers though

Just a variant/mutation or did something goop them

[final sentinel]

bro i love this game’s creatures

[uncut void]

Do we have a gooper on the loose?

[dim scroll]

They look like this

[final sentinel]

Such good designs

[solar nova]

The idea seems weird to me that they would use Cretasium to teleport, though.

[final sentinel]

Well then

[dim scroll]

The most cursed one is mother tbh

It's a head split in two

[final sentinel]

Wha

[uncut void]

Mother's stretched skin face is awful

[solar nova]

Feels like it's just that they're abusing some instability in the MWP and data blocks to navigate between Destination Alpha and the complex.

[dim scroll]

See that happy-looking face in some sort of tumor ?

It's inside a human face

Idk if there is any pic online tbh

But both eyes have dark sclera

[uncut void]

Why do you exist

[dim scroll]

Yeah this

it's in the middle of another face

😳

[final sentinel]

Oh

[uncut void]

Mother and the little babbies are the scariest thing in this game

[final sentinel]

I’ll take a look next time I’m ambling through D2

[uncut void]

I'm numb to them now, but I encountered them first in d2

And I was not emotionally ready for those things to scurry at me

We skipped C2 so my first encounter was opening that door in D2, something screaming at me, then 20 little babos scurrying

[solar nova]

Tank coloration is actually fairly similar to flyer coloration.

In-fact, titans have a similar thing.

Which makes me feel like this is just a hardening, not cretasium necessarily.

[uncut void]

They honestly look charred

[full hull]

Looks more like it's inside an upward facing striker face

[analog frigate]

it's not cretasium

[uncut void]

Like their flesh is burned

[analog frigate]

it most likely is the crystals due to their ability to teleport short distances

[final sentinel]

Don’t give them ideas

[full hull]

Flying tank

[uncut void]

Flying scout

[full hull]

Flying scout isn't bad

Just forced stealth zone

[final sentinel]

Just a really tall tile, we hear the distant roar and then a tank comes swooping down from above

[celest pagoda]

Flying strikes because I want to see them fly with the sheer amount of Crack head energy they contain

[solar nova]

The Stokes logs imply that the crystals and MWP probably are cretasium.

[celest pagoda]

Strikers r the big funny

[analog frigate]

in what way?

[final sentinel]

Flying chickens bc they already flap their arms

[analog frigate]

issue with the crystals being cretasium is, that workers have come into contact with cretasium many times

while mining it

then researchers when it was analysed

[solar nova]

They find a lot of cretasium, and it's not always a teleport.

The cretasium of the MWP is eating through the silicon resin.

[uncut void]

Perhaps in a mineralized form they're less hazardous?

Versus their normal volatility in alloy form.

[solar nova]

It seems like the artifacts are designed in such a way to cause teleportation, the crystal itself doesn't necessarily cause a teleport.

[analog frigate]

2 workers disappeared when handling an un-coated sample of the crystal

[uncut void]

Okay Daraxus I've got a bit of a stretch for you

[analog frigate]

without anything else attached to them

just disappeared

at least said by witnesses

[uncut void]

Some minerals like quartz are made up largely of silicon. If Stokes logs indicate silicon allows brief contact with Cretasium then is it possible a silicon mineral form of Cretasium could be more stable

Versus the immediate effects of the alloy form of Cretasium

[analog frigate]

that would require for them to chemically bond by contact

[uncut void]

Right, which given the lore we know of - shouldn't happen.

[analog frigate]

one or both of the materials would have to be highly volatile to bond with the other one

[uncut void]

But that's as we know it and I feel it's not an unreasonable leap. I genuinely think silicon is going to matter

[analog frigate]

it probably will, we just don't know for sure yet

[full hull]

I thought it was that cretesium allowed contact with the artifacts without being teleported

[analog frigate]

unknown

[uncut void]

Maybe cretasium feeds off silicon? Or the creatures in some manner. If our jumps with the matterwave projector are going to some variation of Mars and these things feed off silicon it would explain how Nemesis got so big. Mars is a big Ole hunk of silicon

[full hull]

"We're looking into the possibility that the behavior of the artifacts may be inhibited or regulated in some manner by cretasium 77-a. It has been found in large quantities throughout the fossil and it's the only material that does not disappear when introduced to the- [...]" -Stokes, 2nd log

[analog frigate]

i saw how you connect with mars being the new planet, but i don't think you're correct

it's extremely unlikely that it would be mars

[uncut void]

It's extremely unlikely it would be our Mars

[analog frigate]

then you get into alternate dimensions which messes up the entirety of the lore

since it enables anything to be possible

and doc warned us to not dive into that

(more so about d4 since it has that funky stuff going on)

[uncut void]

Yeah. I just feel Red Alpha has a bigger part to play

[analog frigate]

well it already does

[uncut void]

I mean bigger than what we know

[analog frigate]

well the extension will probably expand upon that

[full hull]

Inb4 R6.5 is about us closing an open jump gate that leads to red alpha

[uncut void]

What happened after HSU wakeup and the end of the ESAs logs of the ship is a mystery

[analog frigate]

ah, one critical mistake

don't confuse the mission with the planet

we originally "coined" that name

just because it was the closest fitting in logs

[full hull]

Your right we need something better to refer to it as

How about mars

[uncut void]

Right. So I'm just referring to the 2028 events

Red Alpha was a manned mission to Mars using HSUs right?

Or some progenitor to HSUs

[full hull]

It was HSUs

[uncut void]

Do we know if KDS was able to write stacks for KSOs as early as 2028?

[analog frigate]

no

[uncut void]

Or do KSOs not come in till later?

[analog frigate]

unknown

[full hull]

Then it failed because either the pilots woke up with no memory or because something on Mars shot it down

[uncut void]

But are we assuming that?

Is it possible KSOs just manned the ship with new instructions after waking from hydrostasis?

[full hull]

Log implies they didn't have their memory

[analog frigate]

a mission to mars takes a couple months, so it's not unlikely to assume that they could've woken up and had no idea what was going on

could've even smashed into the planet

[analog frigate]

there were no KSOs on the mission

only ESA astronauts

[full hull]

They seemed pretty confused

[analog frigate]

the only part that KDS was connected with that mission, was providing the HSUs

[uncut void]

But putting ESA astronauts in to HSUs, could they create a KSO if KDS wanted it to?

[analog frigate]

that's not how KSOs are known to be made

[uncut void]

Or does the stack upload happen separately from HSU storage

[analog frigate]

KSOs are run through Legion

as far as we know, their memories are erased utilising the HSUs

trained to become the perfect soldiers that won't question anything since they don't know anything else

[solar nova]

That's BIOCOM, presumably a combat AI isn't running the Mars mission.

[uncut void]

So theyre "programmed" prior to being shoved in to HSUs or during?

[analog frigate]

after

[uncut void]

After. Got it

[analog frigate]

they basically become a clean slate

as punkthulhu theorised, it's a plan to make the perfect soldiers

they will only know their training and to listen to the BIOCOM

[uncut void]

Right. KDS wanted perfect mercenaries , effectively

[analog frigate]

basically so

[uncut void]

Just getting my understanding of the stack process

I'm mentally stuck on Red Alpha so I'm just analyzing each piece of it

[analog frigate]

well ask away if there's anything else

[uncut void]

You think the ESAs other planned mission to Enceladus is going to matter

[analog frigate]

we don't know of any

and i am still doubtful of mars having something to do with the new planet

[uncut void]

I'm doubtful of our new planet being Mars, but I'm feeling Mars will come back up

Good talk.

[eternal talon]

jesus christ.. HUNDREDS of messages since yesterday

[eternal talon]

it is not mars.

[eternal talon]

we don't know. could be either. but i wouldn't say "hopping" it's more translocation

[eternal talon]

this is 2070, not 2700

[eternal talon]

why do you keep saying mars?

[eternal talon]

it's like bulbous lumps, possibly cancerous tumors or growths, from my very limited knowledge

[eternal talon]

eww, it's skeleton is exposed. but hey, that does show they aren't entirely hollow, and they have a skeletal structure.

[analog frigate]

read ahead in the conversation

he's "corrected" then

[eternal talon]

jesus that's horrifying

[eternal talon]

on the tank, yeah. but the chargers definitely look like they have a form of chitin

[eternal talon]

we don't know if cretasium "feeds" off anything. 1) that's assuming it's the crystals, and 2) crystals don't really "eat" things. they are like rocks, they grow from natural forces in the environment

[eternal talon]

they didn't know about the memory loss afik, they found out about the long term side effects BECAUSE of the red-alpha trip.

[eternal talon]

wtf is enceladus?

[eternal talon]

we do. it's destination. as in, the name of the rundown.

[eternal talon]

i do NOT see what you are looking at. do you mean it's like another TTT?

(obsessed with the idea and refuses to look at other possibilities?)

[analog frigate]

no?

[eternal talon]

link it please then, i did not see it

also, what is this encladus he was talking about?

[subtle verge]

Apologies if this has been answered already, but just going through what I've missed since I woke up:

NAM-V doesn't cause mutation, it just kills someone off entirely. We've discovered through deduction that the parasite is what causes the mutation, however it is currently unknown if NAM-V does anything to expedite or affect the mutation.

[analog frigate]

that's a moon of saturn

[eternal talon]

yes, but why? what does it have to do with gtfo lore?

[analog frigate]

just a reference

since that moon has been discovered to have oceans of water underneath the ice

basically just said habitable planet

(not that that moon is very habitable)

[subtle verge]

Also apologies if this has been answered: the dev map doesn't confirm dimension hopping. Dimensions in game development just mean playable game space, an x/y chart, for example. The map is on its own dimension (aka plane), players and sleepers are on another dimension, flyers on their own, etc.

[subtle verge]

I'm sipping on some coffee this morning and I had a thought: I actually have a long-shot conspiracy theory that I really have no ground to stand on, but I'm curious if the failed Mars mission had something to do with KDS and the inception of Project Legion.

[analog frigate]

that would depend on the original purpose of the HSUs

if they were actually made for that, long time space missions, then it could have lead to it

[subtle verge]

Give me a moment to sort out my thoughts and I'll present them in a way that I think could make some lick of sense.

[analog frigate]

aight

[eternal talon]

well i mean, the memory wiping thing was an accident.

[subtle verge]

Initially, yes, but what if KDS knowingly abused that side-effect? I'll elaborate further, still writing this down.

[eternal talon]

well yeah, that's what legion IS

[subtle verge]

I more mean for the Red Alpha mission and how it lead to the creation of Legion.

Or if Red Alpha mission was the initial test for Legion.

[dim scroll]

Oh that kind of dimension, nvm then 😳

[subtle verge]

Oh my god I think I'm up to something here. I'm excited to share this with you all. I think this might be able to point towards the introduction of WRDN.

It won't exactly state how the WRDN came to be, but I think it opens a door for the discussion.

[solar patio]

Lol you just drop something like that and leave us hanging😅

[subtle verge]

😉
It's coming. I'm going through this whole thing slowly and meticulously, challenging my own thoughts and ideas with opposing thoughts and ideas.

Just trying to make sure this is well thought out and covering as many angles as I can.

A sneak peek:

[solar patio]

That's about as censored as the patch notes in dev leaks.

[subtle verge]

finger guns

Just to prove that I am indeed working on it and not just throwing rocks at a bee hive.

[solar patio]

Gotcha, great expression.

[subtle verge]

Also that whole paragraph is stuff we already know. I just wanted to have fun with it.

That whole paragraph is me building a foundation that gives context to what the theory is.

[eternal talon]

most theories can be summed up to single paragraphs.

so i'm interested to see what you have got that could be so substantial

[analog frigate]

oh boy, do they never fit a paragraph

you're lucky if you manage to fit it on one page

[eternal talon]

ehh, depends on depth of detail i supoose

[analog frigate]

when it's something new, it's never short

[subtle verge]

I'm at roughly... 1.5 pages or so, and this is mostly building a foundation thus far.

It's also some bullet point notes that I made to keep me on track, so when it's all said and done it should be at 1.5 pages, maybe pushing 2.

[eternal talon]

jesus, that's a bit much

[subtle verge]

Well, it ties into another theory of mine, the Jansen x Gustavo one.

I won't mention it, but there's similarity here.

[solar nova]

Adding that intrigue in there.

[analog frigate]

kds dirty business?

[subtle verge]

That's what it's pointing towards, I think.

"History repeats itself."

[analog frigate]

well they have been always shady

and will remain so

[subtle verge]

Like I said, I won't mention the Jansen x Gustavo theory with the one I'm working on, but you will notice a very familiar tone with the two when you look at it side-by-side.

[eternal talon]

i don't know what that one is either,

so..

[subtle verge]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jBbP19K92U3AlH2rXsUtKHtBkT0OGT3Fqx-1C2Z_B_U/edit?usp=sharing

[analog frigate]

it's an interesting one

dagga was here when you wrote it?

[subtle verge]

TL;DR - Gustavo may have had connections to the UN, and was feeding insider info to the UN.

So, Jansen, or Anders, intentionally cut the tie to the EF-01 mission as an "accident" to make sure they weren't made out by the UN.

Thus sacrificing innocent lives of Durant, his team, etc.

And with Bishop being the only one to return, just throw him back into the HSU to wipe that memory.

All of a sudden: your secrets are safe and nobody knows the wiser.

[subtle verge]

I'm hoping that this makes sense, because I'm feeling very 'Always Sunny connections board' over here.

Look I know this doesn't help... but...

Holy fuck this could change just about everything we know.

Not the specifics, I mean, but more like the overall discussions that we have on the table.

Uhhh question: do we happen to know how long it takes for someone to become a clean slate? Like general rough approximations?

[eternal talon]

wdym clean state?

with disinfection packs?

[subtle verge]

When you throw someone into an HSU and want to wipe their memory.

[analog frigate]

as in Legion

[eternal talon]

months up to a year

[analog frigate]

unknown by logs at least

but yeah

approx up to a year

[eternal talon]

some of the voice logs say they had to throw some of the people back in after a few months because they were still remembering things

[subtle verge]

Gotcha. I didn't know if we had an approximate or a specific. Noted. Thanks, boyos.

[eternal talon]

so i'd say, general estimate, 6-10 months

but yeah, no. nothing specific. we know a rough timeline of when they were still being converted into KSOs, but not when they were "done"

so to say

[subtle verge]

I'll just throw this little hint, or thought, out as to what I'm cooking up:

What if Project Legion has been around for a lot longer than what we originally thought?

[eternal talon]

it already took kovac what, 30 years?

when was the red alpha log

and when was the first log of our squad turning into ksos?

had to have been a long ass time

[subtle verge]

2035 was the year that Red Alpha Mission launched.

2044 is when ESA pulled all funding from the HSU project.

[shut mountain]

I know that X thing is probably not for what I think it is, but whenever I see it my fanfic trained brain really just thinks this is a shipping / fanfic document lmaoo. Nice work on it btw

[subtle verge]

LMAO

Thanks! I'm hoping it makes sense at the end of the day.

I seriously think this will rewrite a general idea of just about everything we know.

At least it will give insight to the history of what we know.

[shut mountain]

Want me to pin it?

[subtle verge]

I think its already pinned. Let me double check.

It is not. Uhh... I say sure, go for it!

[subtle verge]

I want to get opinions from folks about the bomb I'm currently wiring. I'd love to hear feedback when I'm done.

[shut mountain]

Hmm, if you all could make a "All document links in a single message" kind of deal I could pin that and it would be significantly easier

than having many pins

Name of the document, maybe short summary - [Link]
Name of document #2, maybe short summary - [Link]

[subtle verge]

I can work on that when I finish up my theory.

[shut mountain]

Example

[solar nova]

@subtle verge Piros, btw

[subtle verge]

I don't think its Piros, as Piros was Dreyfus Industries, right?

Not KDS?

It sounds like Stokes says 'Teros'

[solar nova]

Piros is KDS.

[subtle verge]

Let me double check the audio log. I swear she says Teros.

[subtle verge]

Ah, you know what, the way that the audio is filtered through Hearsay makes her "Pi" sound like a "Te".

Will fix it.

Thanks for the catch!

[celest pagoda]

Good theory, I never thought about the Gustavo mentioned being Gustavo Peres. Is there anything mentioning the last name of the Gustavo from EF01?

[subtle verge]

Negative, Dr. Durant only lists his colleagues by first name.

[celest pagoda]

This theory fits in with other actions of Davies and KDS, so I don't doubt this is the case if it is him.

[subtle verge]

Get ready for this next bombshell, then.

It's almost done.

Also: I lied, this will be roughly 3 pages of context + theory.

Sorry, @eternal talon

[eternal talon]

why you saying sorry?

[subtle verge]

I lied and said the theory would be 1.5 pages. Turns out it might be a little over 3.

[eternal talon]

what log was it for the lava corridors?

in the meteor?

like glass, but not

[solar nova]

DeepScan?

[eternal talon]

ty

[solar nova]

But nobody actually sees the tunnels and describes them in any log afaik.

[eternal talon]

well yeah, but the log says they are too dense to be natural

[celest pagoda]

Given what we know of Gustavo P., if he was the Gustavo mentioned, I'd assume his inclusion in EF01 was justified due to his status. If he was sent there, Davies would (probably) need a reason to justify his inclusion to the other scientists of the team, as Gustavo P. doesn't seem to be a scientist.

The justification of "Hey this guy sold/gave us the land this facility sits within, we will send him with you to this historic moment as he helped make this happen etc.etc." or something similar may of been why he was even approved to go. Granted, Davies could of just made it happen regardless.

[south lake]

Rav low-key hoping for X-rated Hackett fanfic :p

[harsh saffron]

Good to know I'm not the only one who understood Teros at first ^^

[solar patio]

Do we know that Gustavo wasn't a scientist of some kind?

Because they way he lists among his associates doesn't really imply boss who was sent along for pr reasons

[celest pagoda]

Fair point, although what we know only points to him being a politician of some kind, that doesn't meant he isn't a scientist of some form.

[solar patio]

Exactly but he could very easily be both

Government bodies even medical or humanitarian ones have to have heads typically ones who are doctors or something.

[solar nova]

My interpretation was that Gustavo got KSO'd, and is on EF-01 as part of the security detail.

[solar patio]

Because also if he was really just a high up person would he really have taken such a huge risk on a mission like this?

It goes back to having a reason to justify his presence, but maybe Davies pulled some serious strings.

[eternal talon]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cSxSTv-xHac_UwO6orO5HfdSSW5v0eWUsreahHV1y4I/edit?usp=sharing

[celest pagoda]

Although possible, the Gustavo mentioned was taking readings (I'm not sure of what, someone smarter probably knows) to find a possible habitation zone. The security operatives were stated to be patrolling the perimeter and gathering equipment.

Granted, it could be he was a KSO assigned to do such a task.

[south lake]

[eternal talon]

allen.

[south lake]

Inb4 the Sleepers are all dudes named Allen

[eternal talon]

nah that's the ancient allens.

[south lake]

It's like Fallout's Gary but worse

[eternal talon]

/ALLEN/

[celest pagoda]

Warden bot changed status to nothing.

[south lake]

Calle, what'd you break?

[eternal talon]

ah, that it did.

[solar patio]

plus I think the whole point, If Punkthulhu is correct, is that Davies was trying to keep it under wraps, He could have just killed them all and not ruined the mission, there needed to be a way to get rid of Gustavo without suspicion from other employees. Bishop could be KSO'd because he wasn't important and was just a soldier that KDS could do whatever they wanted with. Gustavo was too high up to wipe his memory without consequences.

[south lake]

Or maybe it couldn't parse all the Sleepers being named 'Allen' and crashed

[eternal talon]

for a theory on the ancient aliens in gtfo, i have an entire segment in this doc talking about the kaken and fish

[subtle verge]

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN

I present to you:

The ramblings of a mad man.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dA2C_dJbLrPR80MJk3EgZIEboa8JUUippG0zLEPtDBw/edit?usp=sharing

[celest pagoda]

one, this should get pinned

two, warden bot status is back

[subtle verge]

Side note: I think I left a thing or two out, but I'll double check after I get some food. TL;DR - Red Alpha was destined to fail by an early iteration of Project Legion. The origin of Project Legion can be traced back as early as the mid 2010s to early 2020s

[harsh saffron]

I really like that theory, I never really thought about the different generations of KSOs too much before

[solar patio]

mm excited to read it

[solar patio]

btw new side theory Punkthulhu runs The State of Truth radio podcast

[subtle verge]

"You're listening to State of Truth AM. If you're a new listener, let me say: Welcome to the Enlightenment."

I wish I had his voice, tbh.

[harsh saffron]

Don't we all? ^^

[solar patio]

Do you think that during those 6 hours the info from the ESA astronauts was being sent back to KDS? They were sort of test subjects for Hydro Stasis and BIOCOM so to speak? If that's the case, I'm confused as to why they needed to send them to space for these tests in the first place, seems to me like an extremely elaborate mission for that purpose. Or was that mission designed to justify the funding from ESA that was being used for the development of early BIOCOM and the HSU pods that Gargantua and KDS deep used.

[subtle verge]

They weren't the first test subjects to be subjected to Hydrostasis, but the first to be subjected to the influence of an early variant of BIOCOM, a way to test the BIOCOM system as it generates its own objective stack without outside influence and in a very controlled, small, environment. I believe it was also used to smokescreen that circumstance with the justification of the funding from the ESA to not raise suspicion.

HSU pods, for all we know, have been around since well before the ESA got their hands on them in 2035. We're talking maybe 10 years prior or more.

[uncut void]

I know it's not Mars we're going to, I'm just ready for Mars to be relevant. It's comin.

The feeding off silicon thing was entirely speculative based on the more crystalline appearance on Flyer enemies versus the more metalic bulbs on Shooters. The only known lore that theory was based on is Cretasium's unique interaction with silicon described in Stokes logs and the real life fact that some minerals like quartz are largely made of silicon. Otherwise it's completely made up. (Mars is also extremely abundant in Silicon 🤔)

Lastly Enceladus is a moon of Saturn. It was referenced by name in an early ESA log as a hopeful goal for a manned mission, but because the Red Alpha disaster it never happened.

[finite vine]

what if the "human intervention" that was described in the log was just the mind-wiped astronauts fumbling around their ship? also, why would KDS run their experiments using BIOCOM on a mars mission? why not just do it inside of a lab somewhere on earth? doing it on earth would be much cheaper and easier, while keeping it hidden from public eyes.

[subtle verge]

I believe that the Kovac Research subsidiary, and KDS itself, knew everything there was to know about the effects of hydrostasis and intentionally didn't let ESA know about it.

[solar patio]

Right you make a good argument there, It does seem very possible that Hydrostasis has been around for a long time, I was just wondering why engineer this whole complex mars mission. It's extremely difficult and expensive even to get ships out of the atmosphere. Why is that necessary for BIOCOM? But yeah I guess you agree that it was a justification for the funding from the ESA, seems much more logical. But I still wonder why they would conduct experiments at all in such a public mission.

[finite vine]

yea it seems like it would be easier for KDS to run their own private experiments like they have done before instead of running the experiment on a mars mission.

[subtle verge]

Fumbling around very well could be the case, and I'm open to that idea. However it seems very unlikely; in the event that these astronauts would have the muscle memory of the ship, its controls, etc. much like the KSOs would have muscle memory of how to fight effectively. My best guess as to why they chose to use BIOCOM as an experiment here would be to test the effects of the DI when its in a standalone environment without the outside influence of being on earth from researchers, developers, engineers, etc. Plus, I think they wanted this to be seen as an accident and a free testing ground to maintain the insane funding that ESA was giving to KDS for this project ($100b+/year for 9 years until funding was cut).

[solar patio]

What if BIOCOM was implemented in the mission in order to keep the astronauts compliant during the crash?

Thats what it's designed to do with the prisoners after all.

[uncut void]

I chose to believe it was BIOCOM hijack because that supports Mars theory and I Stan Mars.

[finite vine]

what's the mars theory?

[eternal talon]

exactly

[uncut void]

Despite all evidence to the contrary my head cannon is we're going to Mars.

[eternal talon]

@analog frigate https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cSxSTv-xHac_UwO6orO5HfdSSW5v0eWUsreahHV1y4I/edit?usp=sharing this is ancient allen theory
that i've been on about for months.

[subtle verge]

I don't know if I can say that it was necessary, per se, but more of a "if I can do it, then why not?" kind of deal. Very much like the Gustavo x Jansen theory, I think it's highly plausible that he did this to 'catch the W' and instead of keeping a quiet ship this time around, he wanted to keep the influx of funding for future projects or endeavors, such as the creation of the thousands of HSU pods.

[eternal talon]

so now i don't gotta say it over and over when people ask about it. just plop a link
... not that people ask about it
whatever

it exists in a document now, so progress. i guess.

[subtle verge]

To add to this: KDS wasn't funding the ship, they were just funding the HSUs. The total loss falls on ESA, not Kovac. Kovac only lost $ in the amount of the 6 HSUs.

[finite vine]

KDS could of tested the effects in a closed environment on earth. to me, it just seems more plausible that the astronauts woke up and just didn't know what they were doing, and crashed the ship into mars. Why wouldn't KDS just run tests in their own lab? I have the same kind of mindset for the Gustavo theory as well. KDS could of very easily killed Gustavo and made it look like an accident without sending him through a wormhole to another planet.

[solar patio]

Oh they weren't funding the ship? that makes sense then. BIOCOM could have been put in place to control the astronauts and basically hide the fact that they were wiped from ESA untill the crash

[finite vine]

if Gustavo made KDS angry right before they were going to deploy EF-01, then it makes it a little more plausible. But then if they sabotaged the mission on purpose then they are purposefully throwing away the MWP, which I would assume they value greatly since they like to research stuff for their own advantage.

[solar patio]

about the Gustavo theory, I think the reason that they didn't just kill Gustavo outright is because due to his high up status there would have been many people internally noticing his absence. Having a reason to explain his disappearance allows them to keep people such as Dr. Stokes or any other employees that might notice unaware that Davies is killing internal employees at Garganta which could be problematic.

[finite vine]

they also throw away bishop, one of their oldest KSO's

[quick grove]

Hmm

[finite vine]

I mean they could of easily made it look like an accident

"gas leak"

they could poison him

kill him in a "mine colapse"

[subtle verge]

Why spend the resources when you have a free testing site at your disposal that you aren't responsible for? If the astronauts didn't know what they were doing, I highly doubt that they would have been able to conveniently sabotage themselves in just the right order - drift off the planned course, into turning off communications (which prevents black box access), and then turning on the primary engine.

As far as the Gustavo theory goes, again, why spend the resources when there are digital and paper trails relating to him? Why take even the smallest chance of getting found out through an accident or poison when you can literally erase him from existence?

[solar patio]

Plus maybe they knew bishop would be back somehow? And they got the data they needed anyway?

[finite vine]

imagine being a research company and having to wait years for a mars mission to be ready to deploy in order to conduct an experiment you can do immediately on earth.

sending Gustavo through a worm hole to another planet sounds like it would take up a lot more resources than just killing him on earth.

[finite vine]

yea Bishop could have something to do with the failure of EF-01

[solar patio]

you also have to realize that Davies might not have had permission from the company to tamper with EF-01, It wasn't his resources, it was the companies.

[subtle verge]

They didn't wait years, at least we don't know that information. They were already in the process of creating KSOs with hydrostasis, hence why there are 19+ generations of KSOs that date back to, bare minimum, late 2020s. BIOCOM had to have been in early stages of development around that time, as well. Again, why waste the resources for internal testing when you can do it for the price of 6 HSUs? Especially when you can see how it would work as a standalone operation in an environment you don't and can't control? You don't have to spend $ on energy, on manpower, on time, or space. It's already provided for you for free, might as well take it, right? I'm not saying you're wrong, but it seems a little too convenient for my taste to say it was just a fumble.

It does, and it absolutely did, but why take even the smallest chance for the empire that was built to crumble into dust because you had a sour relationship, when you can easily bypass it as an accident at a rather small monetary loss?

Also RIP Discord.

[solar carbon]

Indeed

Lmao

[blissful helm]

are any of the characters gay?

[subtle verge]

Not that it necessarily matters, but there are no sexual preferences listed anywhere.

Headcanon away.

[eternal talon]

i'm curious to know where this came from?

[solar patio]

Best first interaction

Lol

Probably helping Ravenna with her Hacket fan fic

[subtle verge]

>insert Careless Whispers<

"We've got pings. Hands off cocks."

[eternal talon]

this game would do soo good with a bolt action primary. just something to spice up the arsenal

[solar patio]

I'm sure they've got lots of ideas for new weapons

[blissful helm]

Think about it

4 prisoners

in a complex

all by themselves

You're telling me they don't develop romantic feelings towards each other?

(and i just want to ship woods and bishop)

[blissful helm]

😔

[subtle verge]

Hard to develop anything when your memory is force-wiped after each expedition.

All they rely on are instincts, muscle memory, and cooperation for survival.

But, as I said, you're more than welcome to headcanon your fanfics and ships.

[solar patio]

Yup I don't think this game has anything about that. It's all about the spooks and sci Fi.

Also forgive me, but I think the complex would be close to the worst place to get it on.

[blissful helm]

What if they hold hands

and after a memory wipe

they recognise the firm sturdy hands they held before their memory wipe

so cute omg

[subtle verge]

Then it sounds to me like you have a great headcanon and should totally make a fanfic to share with your friends!

[blissful helm]

I wish there was a fanfic side

Bishop + Woods <33

Bwoops

[solar patio]

Lol I'm sure there is somewhere

There always is... Horror flashbacks

[blissful helm]

Can i suggest that

[solar patio]

Sure there's a suggestions channel, can't say how likely it is tho

[subtle verge]

There is also the server feedback form in the #discord-announcements if that's something you want to advocate for. However, I will say that this is getting further from lore discussion as it goes on.

[teal hornet]

or wishop

[lunar palm]

just gonna put it here,
a friend told me to read the lore at the sanatonian industries web page before even seeing the game, thought that I might enjoy the lore.
let's just say bing reading the logs on a weekend had been... an experience

[next rover]

I mean, people get hooked on the game in their own ways

I just got blasted by a friend to play the game, no chance to retaliate

and now I'm stuck here

and have met lots of awesome people!

The entire 'creation' concept is to bring people experiences or try to tell a story, It's always been really intriguing to me

[analog frigate]

the lore does in fact go quite in depth

[lunar palm]

admittedly I'm lack for time, but I'd love to share my notes when possible

like there are so many characters, and the moment I found out who Shafer really was has been a real highlight

[analog frigate]

well schaeffer is a very interesting person

btw if you haven't checked out everyone, you can through here
https://www.notion.so/GTFO-Lore-Database-94aac69799e14948b3f9f418761c6cd0

you can see the timeline and also a personnel database

and for questions, you can always ask

[lunar palm]

oh this is peeerfect

[subtle verge]

Yep yep! We also like to remind newer folks that a lot of what you'll see in here will be speculation and theory with following discussions on that, but 99% of us tend to state that in our original posts.

E.G. "Here's my theory on ____" or "tinfoil hat idea here:" and similar.

A lot of the lore presents itself in snippets, so its all about piecing it together. 🙂

[analog frigate]

and mixing a lot of real life knowledge as well

[subtle verge]

That, too.

[analog frigate]

we've had long discussions that included multiple fields of chemistry and physics

overall, it's incredibly amusing

[eternal talon]

if you have any questions, feel free to give the "for dummies" doc a read. if not, there are always people in the channel ready to help 🙂

[lunar palm]

99.98% are dead!?!?

[finite vine]

no, that's not confirmed

its just speculation based on virus simulations using the NAM-V rNaught. also assuming that NAM-V is 100% fatal with no treatment.

[subtle verge]

Not confirmed, it was a "for fun" fun calculation using, as Skyrope stated, NAM-V's R-Naught with current Covid-19 social reaction.

[solar nova]

Something I just thought of.

What if the cave in A1 is the one mentioned in the EF-01 logs?

[eternal talon]

which logs were those?

[solar nova]

The ones where Durant is documenting the expedition.

Bishop moves them to a cave, where they presumably all die.

[eternal talon]

well i mean there is a corpse against a crystal outside of that cave

[subtle verge]

Hmm.. it's plausible, I suppose. It would make sense if that were roughly the area where the MWP kicked on and sent Bishop back.

[solar nova]

Just thought a large cave being a prominent set piece was an odd detail to include. Chekhov's gun, and all.

[eternal talon]

@uncut void "Schaeffer is phosphorous deficient, he requires 36 glowsticks to heal him"

[past glade]

Whats the best video for a overview of GTFO lore until now?

[harsh saffron]

I don't think there are any videos covering the lore that came with Rundown 6 but there are some covering earlier content. By odstfive for example https://youtu.be/NIN12HX-ebk

[dim scroll]

I think it'd be really cool to have an updated version including R5 - R6 Ext

Considering how long we will have to wait for R7

[harsh saffron]

I've been thinking about making a video for the new stuff but now I'm gonna wait for the extension and then the new semester begins a few days after that

[full hull]

How many trips have been made to DESTINATION before we go in game?

Is it just one?

[dim scroll]

Destination isn't a location

It's the name of the rundown

[full hull]

I call it red alpha and I get yelled at to call it destination, I call it destination and I still get yelled at

There's no winning is there

[dim scroll]

What kind of monkey told you to call it destination

It's literally red alpha

Tanks & Schaeffer appeared in Rundown 4 : Contact

Do we call them contacts ?

lol

[full hull]

@eternal talon did

[south lake]

Red Alpha is the name of the Mars mission. Not the planet we go to. Destination Alpha is. I agree there should be less confusing naming conventions here, given how easy it is to get mixed up. It's not mysterious, just a pain.

[full hull]

Personally I call it mars but that's a seperate topic from what I'm trying to talk about

How many trips get made to it before us as players go?

[south lake]

If the planet we went to was Mars, the dirt would be decidedly far more red than it is, going off shots from the rover that got sent there IRL

[full hull]

I want it to be Mars so I will listen to none of the glaring evidence against it

[south lake]

This channel sometimes, I swear..

[full hull]

Anyway, how many trips get made before us players go? Do we know?

[small bobcat]

at least several, judging from the existence of big ass platform in D1

suggesting they had time to build all that and worked on it for some time

[dim scroll]

I recall both to carry the same name (i.e. Red Alpha)

Except if there is a log mentioning Destination Alpha as the planet's name ?

Schaeffer teleported to the planet as well iirc

[subtle verge]

Schaeffer did not make the jump.

As far as we are aware by logs, there was only ever one intentional jump via Dr. Durant's team and the KSOs (which included Bishop). It's implied and even stated in one of Durant's logs that supplies and materials were sent days before the initial team went through.

So it could be that supplies were sent a few times before humans were sent.

There is a log where workers went missing, as if they had vanished, when they interacted with something. Which implied that they were transported to the place we go to.

I believe they were handling something from the Hammerstein Collection, but I could be wrong as I don't fully remember the exact detail atm.

[solar nova]

Call it destination or destination alpha.

It has absolutely no official name, and there needs to be a name without any in-lore overlap.

"planet alpha" was also popular as an alternative.

Alpha doesn't have to be included, it's just an accessible title since we visit "alpha 1" and "alpha 2," and it leaves open the door for the possibility that there's some other places associated with data blocks.

[dim scroll]

Alpha planet seems more reasonable tbh

Destination (Alpha) sounds more like a project name or a placeholder

Anyway it's mostly me complaining about a name or two so i don't think it should matter that much 😳

[solar nova]

We don't know. We know of EF-01, and we know that the landing sights have some infrastructure that's not well explained. It's very possible that destination alpha has been visited many times since the first known visit.

[solar nova]

Well, that's kind of the point.

Destination is the name of the rundown and as unassuming as possible given what we know.

[subtle verge]

I like the idea of Planet Alpha, or maybe EF-01 since Dr. Durant says "EF-01 has arrived" in his first log.

But EF-01 also might just mean an audio recording or something.

[solar nova]

My impression was that EF-01 is the name of the expedition, or the team sent on the expedition.

[subtle verge]

I think that's more likely, actually.

[dim scroll]

Technically we should call the tank "Contact" (as i expect it to also be one of the reasons R4 was named Contact aside from Schaeffer)

😳

Schaeffer as well if we didn't know his name 😳

[hot burrow]

Any new theory’s or something to argue about

[subtle verge]

I had a bit of a brain blast about a week ago or so.

[hot burrow]

Mmmmm

[subtle verge]

But it's a fairly flimsy argument, I think.

[hot burrow]

Ok

[subtle verge]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dA2C_dJbLrPR80MJk3EgZIEboa8JUUippG0zLEPtDBw/edit?usp=sharing

If you want to check it out.

[hot burrow]

Bet

Interesting

[eternal talon]

it's not lmao, red alpha is the mars mission

[eternal talon]

you were right, you don't need to be upset. o7.

as long as it isn't conflicting with anything else and people know what your talking about, just about anything works

really hope they just give us a flat answer on this one

so we don't have to keep juggling names

until anything official comes along, destination or destination alpha are about as unambiguous as you can go.

[eternal talon]

we don't know, but we can assume at the very least a couple to get the supplies to build alpha-1 and alpha-2, if your talking about manned trips, honestly we have no idea.

[eternal talon]

no because they have official names

[eternal talon]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cSxSTv-xHac_UwO6orO5HfdSSW5v0eWUsreahHV1y4I/edit?usp=sharing i recently put the "ancient alien theory" into a readable text document

[hot burrow]

Interesting

[eternal talon]

but other than that and punks', no, not really. alot of people are waiting for the extension. it's only like a week away.

[harsh saffron]

"New voice logs"
15 variations of the same audio log but with the voice clips collected by the warden

[eternal talon]

do we even know if we have all of them? also wdym audio logs? they were like 1 sentence per person

[harsh saffron]

Idk just a random idea what the "new audio logs" in the roadmap means ^^

[eternal talon]

i mean whatever the recordings are for, we will find out in the extension

Calle confirmed that on the steam forums

but honestly we have so very little to go on

they could be a couple of things

[harsh saffron]

https://tenor.com/view/coincidence-i-think-not-coincidence-i-think-not-the-incredibles-gif-5096707

I mean
-New audio logs in extension
-Voice clips we sent in are in the extension