gtfo-lore

[full hull]

How would they have been undiscovered for so long?

Do we know what sleepers use for energy?

[finite vine]

Yea I have been wondering about this as well. If this were true, that would mean that sleepers would of already been inside the egg before santonian employees even broke through it.

For that to happen, the myans would have to of gotten all the way down there somehow.

[finite vine]

well they are buried deep underground

now that I think about it, if sleepers were found inside the egg when santonian employees opened it, it makes more sense for the sleepers to be infected myans, because humans have only existed for a fraction of the time that the meteor has been buried under the ground.

[full hull]

Unless we encounter an enemy that Kool aid man's it's way through a wall, and I hope we do, I'm not gonna believe that sleepers managed to seal themselves so far down

Or had managed to get back to the surface from the meteor

[finite vine]

well there could be something larger, like the boss from d1, or an earthquake that opened a passageway to the surface.

or cave systems...

the deepest cave system in the world is 2,212 meters deep

[full hull]

If the D1 boss ended up on earth, god help us all

Actually bullets seemed pretty effective on it

I doubt we would have had too much of an issue

[finite vine]

yea, well depending on how the d1 boss was created (probably from a genetic altering mega virus), there could even be larger organisms.

[solar patio]

I don't understand the D1 boss

It doesn't seem in the same vein as all the more interesting sci Fi enemies.

[full hull]

Flyers and the D1 boss seemed more like native fauna to red mesa to me

[finite vine]

well the could be a mutated version of the fauna

this is something we know absolutely nothing about unfortunately

[full hull]

This is kinda why I consider it to be more native fauna, it and the flyers and the only non humanoid ones

[solar patio]

About what sleepers use for energy, what seems likely to me is that the entire purpose of the whole dormant state is to conserve resources, like in hibernation.

[full hull]

Hmmmm, somehow or another the sleepers came to the surface clashed with the Mayans abit, then starved out before they were encountered next?

Or the Mayans wiped them out

[solar patio]

Perhaps the Mayans were digging under the earth and located them? Then sealed off their deeper tunnels.

They did have a lot of technology and architecture for their time.

[full hull]

I doubt the Mayans got that deep

They had alot but not 1,500 feet deep tunnels alot

[solar patio]

Agreed, yeah.

[full hull]

Actually they probably would have had to go much deeper than that even to encounter sleepers

[finite vine]

aint no way they got to 2k meters

[full hull]

Mayans were "good" relative to their time but nowhere near comparable to modern stuff

[solar patio]

Maybe just NAM-V then? They just got sick and died and that's what the whole flee demon thing is about? It seems more likely that a microscopic virus traveled closer to the surface then large multicellular organisms.

I agree I agree, I'm just wondering what the deal is...

[finite vine]

Yea that is also possible

I just wonder how sleepers are created honestly.

and when they were initially encountered and where

[full hull]

With what we currently know I don't think we can really say that it was NAM-V they experienced, it's hard to justify the Mayans ever contacting it

[finite vine]

It makes me think that sleepers are not naturally occuring, because Dauda said in his audio log that he "brought them upon the world"

[solar patio]

Then what the hell is that log about?

It's in the exact same location

[full hull]

Something we might find out in the future

[solar patio]

Might be both naturally and un naturally occuring

[full hull]

The sleepers might have only existed once we started messing around with red mesa

[solar patio]

Like hybrids for example, that name implies genetic manipulation.

[finite vine]

they were actually encountered before that I believe. The MWP stuff was being experimented during late late 2053/ 2054

and sleepers were encountered sometime before october 2053

[solar patio]

Actually how did Sanatonian know what was know to build Garganta? It seems through the logs that it wasn't just a mining mission, they knew something was down there...

It seems as though there was something important about that location in particular. It can't just be that they decided to make sleepers

[full hull]

They noticed a massive fucking deposit of "iridium" and went to try and mine all of it before anyone else got a piece of it

[finite vine]

https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?p=93af7421498545bda4a6fe13fb645687

yea they thought what they found was iridium, so they build this giant complex.

[full hull]

Turns out it's not iridium but instead some never before seem material

[finite vine]

then they actually found cretasium 77a, and the "egg"

somewhere below 1500 meters

[solar patio]

That further weakens the theory about sleepers being entirely manmade then. They either stumbled upon sleepers or some precursor to them

[full hull]

Maybe the material produced some kind of radiation that creates sleepers/NAM-V and we started to play around with the dosages and the like creating different kinds of sleepers?

[solar patio]

Then where did the parasites come from?

[full hull]

The parasites are just a theory no?

[finite vine]

We don't know.

[finite vine]

A parasite is mentioned in a log somewhere I believe

[full hull]

Or do we have a log confirming the existance of the parasites?

Ah

My current base theory is that sleepers occured naturally then we started to play around to increase the success rate

[solar patio]

Plus sleepers can survive without major internal organs and brain matter. This implies further that the central control center is not in the human hosts themselves.

[finite vine]

My current theory is that NAM-V was found lingering near the perimeter of the egg, which explains the weakened symptoms of the initial workers who got close to the egg while digging. Then when the employees broke into the egg, the full version of NAM-V was released.

Sleepers and parasites were either found inside the egg, or just parasites were found inside the egg. Then parasites + NAM-V + human makes sleepers. Or sleepers are a result of human experimentation using something they found inside the egg.

[full hull]

The parasite probably isn't present in all sleepers, for example shooters seem to need their head and don't seem to have any kind of parasite

[solar patio]

I'd add a little to that, I would say that somehow, whatever the genetic precursor to the sleepers is, was within the meator that hit Chicxulub. Then somehow they came in contact with humans and created what we know as sleepers. To me it seems impossible that sleepers are organisms solely evolved separately, besides their appearance multiple logs have confirmed that humans change into them.

[finite vine]

true

[solar patio]

Perhaps the parasite is in the head? Explaining the large unnatural size, the heightened number of tumors and why headshots are always kills with shooters

[full hull]

Could there be some kind of sleeper hivemind kind of system and the meteor was sent out to try and spread the infection/sleepers?

[finite vine]

yea possibly. I personally think it is more like something from the Alien franchise. An alien species were carrying some kind of dangerous cargo and then crashed on earth.

Or the aliens were trying to escape NAM-V or whatever causes the sleepers, so they made a spaceship to try to escape their planet, but NAM-V made it onto the ship and it was too late.

[solar patio]

It seems likely that there is some form of hive mind or at least communication between the sleepers, but I highly doubt they are sofisticated enough to launch interstellar missions.

[finite vine]

Yea there is probably a semi-unrelated intelligent alien species that created the Hammerstein artifacts.

[solar patio]

Ohh, that might be true! What if the meteor wasn't a meteor, but a ship infected with the sleeper precursors, and the remains of the ship explain the cretasium!

And humans simply missed something about the nature of the apocalyptic event due to the millions of years passing

[full hull]

Also we very much were experimenting with NAM-V, the syringes are proof of that, you gain benefits from being infected

[finite vine]

Yea. Another thing to point out, is that destination alpha (the MWP desert planet) is described as a "destination", and the data cubes (which hold navigation data) had the cords for destination alpha programed into them. This implies that destination alpha is actually the destination of the meteor & MWP, instead of the origin.

[solar patio]

100% I think we can all agree they were experimenting with the sleepers, explains dauda stuff and all the labs and everything, but the question is, did they cause parasite/NAM-V to infect humans, or simply advance the already existing organisms into some of the other varients.

[finite vine]

Or advance some initial variant they found the into sleepers we see

[solar patio]

So red alpha was the destination of the theoretical ship?

[finite vine]

Well its not confirmed, but it sure does seem like it to me

[solar patio]

Lol that's why I said theoretical

[finite vine]

lol my bad

[solar patio]

This is deep speculation XD, there is a lot we don't know.

[finite vine]

Yea its just I always hear people saying that destination alpha is the origin of the MWP, except that it is also possible for it to be the destination.

[full hull]

We can't really do much but speculate and make theories off of thoose speculations, there's very little solid lore

[solar patio]

Maybe, and this is going WAAAY out on a limb but perhaps the occupants of the ship we're heading to red alpha as suggested by the word destination, in order to deal with the source of the infection, maybe @Medic is right about the hive mind, and somehow the sleepers on earth are connected to the varients on red alpha, maybe those are sleepers of a different organic life form, similar to how aliens in alien can infect other animals and gain different forms.

They do seem quite similar to ants, being able to evolve certain sleeper for different purposes, ants have soldiers gathers queens nurturer, sleepers have strikers, scouts, giants, and mothers.

The scout varients are particularly interesting to their biology, the evolution to have a unit with the ability to protect the horde when in their hybernation was so useful, that it actually evolved in multiple different paths, like how having a queen to lay eggs for ants was so useful nearly all ants have evolved to produce queens.

Same with they way they do it as well, queens start out as normal larva who are fed royal jelly in order to change their biology, scouts seem to have a similar process where shooters can change into scouts.

[full hull]

Mothers really confuse me

They make it seem like strikers aren't mutated humans but instead simply birthed from mothers

[solar patio]

I actually had an idea about that, perhaps once sleepers infect a species and advance to their later varients, they still have some of the biological ability to produce children that change their DNA to match the *mother

To be more clear, they are mutated humans

They are the embryos that humans carry inside them.

The mother could lay parasites inside the human embryos that it carries causing them to develop as sleeper from conception

Just a thought.

[full hull]

So a pregnant person becomes a sleeper and their children become infected and "cloned" to create more sleepers?

[subtle verge]

I don't necessarily believe that to be the case. To me, it's more related to asexual reproduction that we can see in some species of lizards, or it is more likely akin to hive-like creatures where there are queens that can reproduce for their entire life cycle.

[full hull]

Requiring the host to be pregnant would explain the rarity

[solar patio]

Yeah that's a good point but it could still kinda be true

Plus mothers seem to be evolved from strikers.

Which are all male

[full hull]

Mothers seem to be their own offshoot

They don't share much similarities with anything

[subtle verge]

I'm not necessarily doubting it, but there is a theory out there that states that certain variants of sleeper are created in regards to what the hive would need at that point in time.

The default being the striker, of course.

[solar patio]

Oh that seems to be true for sure, like what I was saying about scouts.

They creat them for their hybernation periods

Create*

[full hull]

How related do we think pustules are to the sleepers?

They seem almost too specialized to be an evolution

[solar patio]

It does seem though that sleeper traits are highly determined by their sex.

And mothers bear a lot of similarities to strikers.

[full hull]

Like?

[solar patio]

The mouth head is the main one but also the host within its chest instead of head and also the lack pustules and lumps

[solar patio]

Btw to this all pustules are on female sleepers, at least I think so

I don't know why but it definitely is relevant somehow

[full hull]

I now have a mental image that all pustules are actually just female sleepers and imagined one pushing itself out of the wall

[solar patio]

Wow thanks for that image

😂

[full hull]

No problem

[solar patio]

But do you see what I'm saying about mothers? The traights between different types of sleepers determined by their sex and the mother has a lot of the sexual characteristics of the strikers, which is really weird considering the name mother.

[quick grove]

Hmmm

[subtle verge]

I'm not entirely sure how the poppers are made, however, it might also coincide with my theory about the toxic fog to a degree.

[quick grove]

Most of the sleeper varieties we see are mutations y'all know that right

[subtle verge]

But there are also theories that sleepers are created based upon the host's DNA, determining the weights of the outcome.

[solar patio]

Maybe you're right about asexual reproduction, it makes a lot of sense, but the mother needs the a mutated version of sperm cells to create babies, and somehow the eggs are created by the mother

Ohh or the parasites can mutate a womb and can create embryos for the host body to fertilize, therefor basically acquiring asexual reproduction in a roundabout way

Not mutate, mimic

[subtle verge]

Not necessarily. One does not need sperm to reproduce asexually, for example the New Mexico Whiptail. They use the chromosomes they have to reproduce what are essentially clones of themselves. That being said, these clones are more susceptible to illness and environmental change.

Even humans can reproduce asexually to a degree, with the use of bone marrow.

[solar carbon]

Who said they even use normal reproduction?

[solar patio]

I know, not all species do but I'm trying to come up with a reason why mothers would pick males as a host

[subtle verge]

Now, that leads to a lot of ethical problems and generational problems, of course.

[full hull]

What if mothers are created when pregnant women are infected and their child is "cloned" repeatedly creating many baby strikers?

[solar patio]

I think that science is very theoretical and wouldn't be sustainable even if it worked do to problems with genetic diversity , and that's a big if.

[solar carbon]

Story behind this big lad?

[solar patio]

Mother?

She definitely does something with baby strikers lol

[full hull]

Man big, nuff said

[solar carbon]

lmao

[solar patio]

Maybe he's like a conjoined twin lol

[solar carbon]

Ima put these on the wiki also

Since the tank wiki pics are pretty crap

[solar patio]

Or the tank is created through genetic manipulation, he does seem to be part charger.

[solar carbon]

He is part charger

Think about it

[toxic wagon]

I like to think Tank was based off the suggestion about wanting an Absolute unit that hinders the team

[solar carbon]

In reality it’s just ring around the rosey

[full hull]

He has cancer, don't make fun of him

[solar patio]

Lol he definitely was created as an incentive for more teamwork, but we're talking from a lore perspective.

[full hull]

There does seem to be some kind of spikey extra strong material that grows on chargers, tanks, etc

[solar patio]

Yup, that's what I meant, he is first encountered with a bunch of dead scientists too...

[subtle verge]

So the theory that I've seen the most in regards to the larger enemies such as mothers, chargers, tanks, hydras, etc. and that I tend to agree with the most: they're there to protect something deemed important by the hive. Similar to warrior ants protecting worker ants, etc.

[full hull]

hydras?

[subtle verge]

The ones with three tongues.

[full hull]

Isn't that a tank?

[solar patio]

Different name for a tank

[subtle verge]

I think they're the same, I'm not entirely sure. I first heard the term Hydra this rundown.

[solar patio]

Like how giant are titans or franks

Or mothers are birthers

[full hull]

Gotcha, he listed both so I got confused

[toxic wagon]

calls spitters "Gushers"

[full hull]

My team calls hybrids strikers and I hate it

[toxic wagon]

sadge

[solar patio]

Anyway, we were talking about that earlier, the different species of sleepers seem to mirror each other's roles even in different strains, all strains(standard, charger, shadow) have scouts, titans, and strikers. Just like hwo different species of ants all have drones, warriors or queens.

[full hull]

Shadow mothers

[toxic wagon]

charger mothers

[full hull]

When?

[toxic wagon]

charger daddys

imean tanks

[solar patio]

Don't tempt the devs

[full hull]

Wouldn't be that much worse tbh

[toxic wagon]

more fun imo

[solar patio]

Shadow babies lol

That'd be a nightmare.

[toxic wagon]

this makes me wanna see charger babies now

[full hull]

🙂

[solar patio]

I can't imagine how they'd be any faster.

[full hull]

They would just glitch over the place even more

[subtle verge]

We also know there are different variations of the hive, too. For example, the blood door sleepers have deeper shade of red in their skin tone than the standard sleepers we see in the corridors. For exactly what reason, couldn't tell you.

[toxic wagon]

Charger babies: "Why are you running? Why are you running?"

[full hull]

I swear the scariest thing I've seen in this game was a moonwalking charger scout

[full hull]

Their blood is circulating from moving

[solar patio]

Are those the same as the alarms door sleepers being darker?

[subtle verge]

Yep.

[solar patio]

They have like almost black heads

[subtle verge]

Perhaps.

[solar patio]

Interesting, that could be true, I just thought that was because they were coming from the walls.

Like they were hiding in the tunnels and alarms or scouts called them out or something

But you might be right.

[full hull]

GTFO needs to get abit better with enemy spawning, I've had waves spawn on top of me twice now

[toxic wagon]

kinda wish they'd jump out of vents like in dead space

[solar patio]

Don't split up.

[solar patio]

Dude I want vents!!!

[toxic wagon]

would be cool for another traversal method to different zones

[full hull]

First time was on C3, 2 we're going ahead stealthing the sleepers while we took out the waves

[solar patio]

You can Use 3 c foam blobs to foam them, and a new turret that can shoot through vents really well

That'd be so cool

[full hull]

That or they were getting loot, I forget

[solar patio]

Yup, sleepers always spawn two rooms away, if you split up, two rooms away from someone else might be on top of you lol

[full hull]

Gotcha, I wish it checked to spawn 2 rooms away from everyone

Shit my heart out the first time it happened

[toxic wagon]

me getting hybrid wave spawning on me during c2 secondary because the scout killing team didn't tell me they moved a room up

[solar patio]

I wonder if there's a reason why? Like would it cheese alarms doors somehow, I'm trying to think.

[solar patio]

Lol I feel your pain.

[full hull]

I would rather not split up during an alarm door

[solar patio]

Well you rarely would alarms are all in the same room, it's mostly a problem for error alarms or C3

[full hull]

Which are the 2 times I've had waves spawn on me

[solar patio]

Yup, because why would you leave an alarm room. All the scans are in there.

[full hull]

But having a room clearing team and a hold the line team doesn't seem to cheese it much

[solar patio]

Just stay behind them.

Say "room clear, move up"

Then you just keep holding the last room.

[full hull]

Fair enough

[quick grove]

Is this lore discussion hmmm

[solar patio]

Lol there was a slight digression, we've been talking about lore

[quick grove]

Hmmm yes yes

What was the lore discussion even about

[eternal talon]

Not necessarily. Allens who sent the meteor to earth would be there likely.

[eternal talon]

Allens

[eternal talon]

The one of them eating through HAZMAT and injecting Nam-v. And while removed, viral load still increases, which is kinda the whole point how we know they are two separate things. The virus and parasite, I mean.

[eternal talon]

Yee. Post above

[eternal talon]

The parasite isn't necessarily the tongue, that's just one theory.

[eternal talon]

It's not a hivemind, but it is a hive. It's described as the "inner". Also where all the Allen tech and Hammerstein artifacts came from (mostly)

[eternal talon]

Absolutely. 💯 ancient Allen theory.

[eternal talon]

Well, given it infected the completely biologically foreign life of destination, then no. It simply would just take time for the parasite to learn to jump species. That is likely why nam-v's first symptoms upon encountering humanity was relatively mild in garganta

[eternal talon]

They are likely both. The mother simply being a way to stabilize the horde's numbers since their method of attack seems to be entirely throwing themselves at you. (After they infect and convert an initial population)

[eternal talon]

One of the oldest and most likely theories in the book.

[eternal talon]

Machine-gunners

[swift oasis]

why you use this word, do you mean aliens ?

[analog frigate]

it started some time ago

[eternal talon]

yes, it means aliens.

[analog frigate]

when the theory of aliens making stuff appeared

they just really like allen wrenches for some reason

[eternal talon]

it's just mildly amusing to say allen instead of alien, okay?

[subtle verge]

Allow me to throw a 🔧 wrench 🔧 in that plan.

Would be really cool to have a wrench weapon, actually.

[toxic wagon]

Where is Dauda's passive Med efficiency

[eternal talon]

the maul has a spike head, not an axehead. it needs redesign

[quick grove]

Bonking scouts with wrenches

[spice cloud]

my theory was that the asteroid the parasite and the NAM-V were designed by an alien race to be used as a bioweapon for colonizing worlds

[subtle verge]

Phew, that's a loaded one.

[full hull]

I'm hoping that now that we had the official release we might get some more clear lore

[solar patio]

I dunno, I like subtle lore, plus they can't give away too much as they plan to make more rundowns.

I think the forced dialogue in R6 is not good, Why would a door force you to listen to someone's private diary? Just hide it in a terminal log, encourages terminal use more.

[subtle verge]

I would disagree with that take. We have to remember that R6 is the 1.0 release, which means a lot of people have bought the game and don't know anything about the game's lore or setting outside of what can be visibly seen. Sprinkling in a little bit of audio lore with main objective doors makes sense so that the world doesn't feel repetitive or empty to newer players.

We also have to remember that newer players may not know that there are logs on computers, as a lot of people just see the main objective and want to complete that before they even realize there are logs.

[solar patio]

that's true, but kinda an inherent problem with the rundown system, you will miss stuff from previous rundowns. I'm all for rundowns having maybe old logs that relate to the information that new players won't have. This rundown does very little to clear up who the hell Schaeffer is or all of the other things that people would have missed. And yes, they might not know that there are logs in terminals, but there is a big sign at the top of the terminal interface that says "1 log on this terminal", plus if someone types "commands" it will instantly be made clear that terminals can have logs on them. If someone is paying even a small amount of attention to what's happening around them they can figure out how logs work. Plus regardless of the release, it's an unsubtle way of communicating information, It's fun to have to search for tidbits of lore and piece together the story as a community.

[finite vine]

the forced dialogue only exists on the priority expeditions, and there are still plenty of lore logs on terminals.

I do prefer lore given through environmental storytelling or terminal logs. but honestly, I do not really see the forced dialogue as much of a problem.

[solar patio]

I don't see it as a huuge problem either, but I just think that the more vague and mysterious storytelling that GTFO has had is great, and that kinda seems like an attempt to make it more obvious.

also the priority expeditions seem to be the main source of lore overall. So its definitely a relevant conversation

[harsh saffron]

I agree with Punk here:
A1 is the most basic introduction to Schaeffer you can give to new players. He is talking to the prisoners, he obviously has some mental/memory problems, knows about the Warden, mentions that he instructed us to to go deeper in the past etc. You don't really need to know about his past to not be confused by logs left by him in C2 for example. They don't have to list his prior job and friends or whatever to understand whats going on.

I can't really tell you how many players I watched or read on various occasions that didn't even know the game had any lore to begin with, not just newer players, even some who played for a few Rundowns. I wasn't sure about the super aggressive "in-your-face" storytelling in the beginning but it's definitely worth if it means more ppl are aware of and interested in the lore (because that's one of the best parts of the game in my opinion).

Also think about the awesome stuff they could do with the automatic audio logs in the future:
Warden protocol objective; the lights turn off; complete silence for a few seconds; and then the thing Schaeffer talked to, begins talking to us.
Or idk Schaeffer giving us security codes to move forward while delaying hordes behind us (would have to have subtitles forced on for that one, so you aren't soft locked without sound).
But that kinda should probably stay a feature for a few missions, when you replay A1 and have to listen to Schaeffer for 1min again and again, it gets kinda annoying.

[small bobcat]

A running/chasing sequence where we get temporarily cut off from warden and schaefboy tries to actively help us would be cool

I imagine the team holding down a terminal while he looks for a code, and gets progressively more panicked as whatever it is is closing in, for that hit of suspense

[smoky sigil]

do we know if schaeffer has guns and is searching for resources like us or he just has a hammer

[harsh saffron]

He never used any weapons that we know of, but if he wanted to kill the mimic creature, he probably has some kind of gun. Can't really imagine him trying to choke it to death.

[smoky sigil]

tf is the mimic creature?#

[harsh saffron]

The worst nightmare of speedrunners

the thing hes talking to in the C2 log

mimics a human voice, hence the name

[small bobcat]

Schaefboy panicks because doom is approaching, speedrunners panick because time limit is approaching

[smoky sigil]

which rundown C2?

[harsh saffron]

this one ^^

[dim scroll]

SC3-3BF-03 & SC3-1BG-98

https://gtfo.fandom.com/wiki/Rundown_6.0_Logs

[solar nova]

Wait, how? My impression is that most of what we know is from terminal logs.

Even the EF-01 expedition is all on terminals.

[subtle verge]

I'd agree with that: I'd say 95% of what we know about the world has come from logs outside of the main objective expeditions.

[solar patio]

I'd agree with that too, I meant just in R6, a lot of the new lore comes in priority expeditions.

[solar nova]

I still don't think that's true, though.

[solar patio]

Really?

All of the red alpha stuff?

Seems like the main part of r6

[solar nova]

It's
-Destination Alpha.
-Lore-related objectives.
-Schaeffer losing his shit.
-Stokes logs.

[subtle verge]

A lot of juicy lore, absolutely. But more world-building and overall lore comes out of other missions.

I will say: if we look at the amount of lore that comes out of main objective missions versus side objectives, the ratio is 18 to 14, however within that group of 18 are all of the major audio logs.

If we remove the audio logs, it goes down to 12 to 14.

[solar patio]

Lol I was just looking that up thank you.

Are there really 32 logs?

Wow

[subtle verge]

There's technically more, but there are some listed that don't have a mission listing.

Either because A: they're universally in the logs among all missions, or B: they're just not added in.

I didn't add those in.

[solar patio]

Maybe you guys are right, It definitely isn't a huge issue or anything, I just remember the C1 stokes logs being really a little silly and taking me a little out of it.

It definitely isn't a main concern or anything, there are a lot of things I'd like to see before someone even thinks about that. Especially since it appears like 5 times

[harsh saffron]

Yeah no worries my first reaction to the lore being thrown in your face wasn't 100% positive either ^^
That was in B1 where almost every terminal had logs too, so you didn't really have to "search" for them

[toxic wagon]

Schaeffer not being able to answer a simple question and instead answers "WHAT THE FUCK??"

[subtle verge]

Yeah, my first stroll through the 1's was interesting. I thought it was cool at first, but it got somewhat annoying around C1; not because of the lore itself, but because I was progression locked while a monologue was being thrown at me.

I'm the kind of player that's like: "Let me get through the mission, experience the content, and then I'll go back for the lore so I can study it and understand it."

[solar patio]

Lol, I love taking it really slow and experiencing every inch.

[harsh saffron]

I just take the fastest route to every terminal, my team loved waiting for the fog clearing up in C2 because I was listening to the logs first 🙂

[solar patio]

Lol we always gather around the terminal together for "story time"

[full hull]

Here me out, Schaffner is the warden

[harsh saffron]

well in that case we also had to, because the person with the turbine was also listening 😄

[toxic wagon]

Me playing the audio log in B1 while getting shot

[subtle verge]

Ahh yes, another 'Schaeffer is the Warden' meme.

Everliving.

[analog frigate]

eh, i doubt that's the case

we have a lot more proof of calle being the warden

[harsh saffron]

true

[subtle verge]

Calle pls

[analog frigate]

getting his lunchbox, gathering ingredients, the level of smarts

straight up calle

[full hull]

The warden is just some dude who got stuck dealing with the prisoners in a dead end job, he can't leave because the prison can't find any replacements for him

[harsh saffron]

also they can't make Schaeffer the Warden, I would have to remove one of the wiki pages 😡

[harsh saffron]

pretty plausible theory ngl

[subtle verge]

[toxic wagon]

Pic of warden vs Pic of Calle

They are the same person

[harsh saffron]

insert "they're the same picture" meme

[toxic wagon]

@ spiken#5833 dont deny it. We know

[rare scaffold]

The R6C2 audio log where schaefer talks to this mystery thing is so cool

excited to find out wtf that is, snatcher perhaps? :p

[subtle verge]

Nah, he explains in a previous log that it closely resembles a human, white ashy skin, and that it was torn apart by the others while trying to speak in a voice that wasn't its own.

[harsh saffron]

@native shell playing v1.WRDN.2
wasn't it just v1.WRDN before?
I actually don't remember

[rare scaffold]

yo since when has there been a warden bot?

[subtle verge]

It's playing V4 now.

[harsh saffron]

Ok, I feel trolled, it changed to.4 😄

[rare scaffold]

or was I just blind lmao

[harsh saffron]

sometimes its there, sometimes its not

[rare scaffold]

neato

[subtle verge]

Wait, hold on.

That's a new Wrdn bot.

The old one was cycled out.

#the-warden

[harsh saffron]

meta lore

[subtle verge]

@frail pollen IS THIS YOUR DOING? I will "Old Man Yells at Clouds" you!

https://tenor.com/view/abe-simpson-abe-simpson-cloud-yelling-cloud-angry-gif-12558964

[rare scaffold]

👀

quick, check the source code for to see if you can spot the hidden encrypted message

lol

[subtle verge]

By the way, Doc, we need more Rascal in pet pics.

[harsh saffron]

and we are at .5

[quick grove]

I will totally disagree

[solar nova]

Hey, our first explicit association of WRDN with "The Warden"

[harsh saffron]

true

[subtle verge]

Very true.

[harsh saffron]

Acronym Definition
WRDN Western Region Disability Network (Australia)

google says its that actually

[quick grove]

What

[quick grove]

[quick grove]

What you mean

[solar nova]

Nothing actually explicitly associated the WRDN or BIOCOM with the Warden.

It's just very heavily implied that we are KSOs and we're probably being sent down by BIOCOM.

[quick grove]

Oh lol i thought you were talking about this message

[solar nova]

The WRDN is also... I mean... it's "warden" without any vowels, come the fuck on.

[harsh saffron]

and we went to .6
I just image Doc sitting there, updating every 20 mins ^^

[quick grove]

Oh so the new warden bot went from 0.1 to 0.6

[quick grove]

[eternal talon]

is it a countdown?

[solar nova]

I'd give it a 50/50 on being a countdown or just being some weird thing rn.

[eternal talon]

@dull crest any insight?

[full hull]

Countdown to new rundown

[eternal talon]

pleeeease?

[full hull]

Oh I have an idea

.6 for rundown 6

It will go to .7 for rundown 7

[eternal talon]

or .65

[full hull]

it would be .6.5 not .65

[eternal talon]

or if they really wanna torture us, make it go up by 0.01 every day

.61

.62

esc esc

then make it go past .65 and all the way to 6.5

[full hull]

.6.1 not .61, .61 denotes rundown 61 while .6.1 denotes rundown 6 version 1

[eternal talon]

i thought we were talking decimals

[full hull]

Only when it comes to math

.6.1 denotes that it's still .6 but a different version of .6

Whereas .61 would denote a different thing than .6

[solar nova]

Welp, over and hour w/ no announcements.

Good chance of a red herring by now.

[harsh saffron]

dont think they will release anything in the middle of the night again, R6 was just special in that sense
eu timezones btw

[solar nova]

Probably.

I'd still favor 50/50 since extensions don't usually get much explicit build-up and the R6 build-up was, at the time, "this probably isn't directly teasing R6," and then it was.

More against now, though, since it's stopped at .6 w/out any news.

Sporadic update time as well.

[eternal talon]

how long has it been since r6 dropped?

[solar nova]

3 months, apparently a little over 5 weeks of development time.

[eternal talon]

i remember hearing somewhere that if we had an extention, it would have dropped sometime around feb 3rd, since that's relatively when r5's dropped

[solar nova]

If it is an announcement, chances are it's 6.5, or development speed is so good rn that they've already got R7 rolling out (but this isn't that likely given what little communication they've provided suggests).

[solar nova]

They released that before summer vacation, though.

As opposed to them going on winter vacation immediately after dropping the rundown.

So, actually would be around this time if they've decided they want to do an extension.

[eternal talon]

if it is an extension, how do you think they'd take the story now?

i've got no bloody clue where they'd go from here

[solar nova]

Probably no priority missions for extensions, is my guess, but there's no precedent.

[eternal talon]

that's assuming it's not another r2-3, and it's a loose end.

which would suck.

[solar nova]

I mean, they'll probably tie up their loose ends.

[eternal talon]

we still don't know what the neonate was for

[solar nova]

But odds are that any extension we get will be "classic GTFO," just missions.

[eternal talon]

if anything, i'd assume the extension would involve the Nam-v gene sample we got in d1.

[solar nova]

w/ vague objectives and such.

[solar nova]

Could be just more stuff like D2 and D3, could also be teaser-esque objectives that allude to R7.

[eternal talon]

do you think they'd keep pink accessible?

since unlike destination which is priority assignments, pink is for doing all mains

same thing with all secondary and all overload palettes.

[full hull]

We fight our way aross and then up and out of the complex to hand deliver the gene sample to a team on the surface

[eternal talon]

so in an extension where they add more mains secondaries and overloads, it would change.

[eternal talon]

um.. as far as we know 99.98% of humanity is dead. there is no team on the surface

the WRDN we work for is a rogue AI

[full hull]

What log was that that gave us all of humanity is dead?

[eternal talon]

just reusing KSOs, since all we really are are private soldiers.

[eternal talon]

@analog frigate

they did math, but the biggest lead is the WHO broadcast

left to replay over the radio for like 10 years.

[full hull]

Did we get percentages or numbers?

[harsh saffron]

we have the R-naught and some logs confirming that they have no cure, aka everybody who gets infected dies

[eternal talon]

according to their math, there are about 30k humans left on the surface.

likely in severely isolated pockets

[full hull]

Did they do the math using our current population?

[eternal talon]

no, the population in 2057

er,

the time it reached the surface

[full hull]

Didn't know we got that number

[solar nova]

Probably used a population projection.

[full hull]

I'll have to reread the logs

[eternal talon]

it's not explicit, medic.

they used info from the WHO & CDC logs and calculated it.

[full hull]

Gotcha

[subtle verge]

No, Daraxus and I used the estimated population of 2055, which is 9.5 billion.

[full hull]

Ah

[eternal talon]

there's nobody left in the complex really, other than schaeffer i guess.

we as KSOs are all mindless slaves to biocom, and thus, the warden

we do not have the free will to think or question orders.

[subtle verge]

We also didn't account for cross-species infection, either, as there are no logs that state one way or another.

[eternal talon]

so feasibly it could be much worse.

not that you can really get much worse than 99% of humanity being dead, though

[subtle verge]

But essentially: a perfect world scenario for NAM-V is 99.98% of humanity infected and dead within a year.

Going by average numbers, we can expect that number of death within ±5 years.

I guess I should also say that was calculated with current social response to Covid-19.

[finite vine]

it is honestly unreasonable to say we know this is for sure with the info we have currently

[finite vine]

this too. it is possible that humans are involved.

[subtle verge]

Yeah, we have zero basis for the whole thing other than "this sounds like fun" at the time.

[finite vine]

well there is no log that says that 99% of humanity is dead. its just a speculation. the only facts we have is from a log that says the WHO think that there is a 90% chance that NAM-V is located in all continents, which was dated in 2053 I think. That's it. Also accounting for the NAM-V rNaught of 17. We don't know what NAM-V does to people long term, and it is very possible that a group/ organization found a way to mitigate their exposure to NAM-V. It is also possible that a significant amount of humanity is dead. However, there is not really enough info to say that 99% of humanity is dead.

[finite vine]

I think there is a chance that some places in the complex are not completely over run by sleepers, it is a large place after all. and the closest to the surface we have gotten is like 300 meters I think? There honestly could still be inhabited parts of the complex. I honestly doubt it though.

[full hull]

Going off a 90% that a disease is located in all continents and getting to 90% of humanity is dead is a huuuuuuuge stretch

[eternal talon]

talk to daraxus and punk, i didn't make the report.

they did that ages before i got back into gtfo lore

[finite vine]

we as in the prisoners we play as? Bishop, Dauda, Woods, and Hacket all banter back and fourth and seem like they can think freely. Same with Schaeffer

[full hull]

If they aren't able to be sure if it's present then the symptoms are probably fairly muted or hard to detect, besides even if it's a 100% death rate and spreads well deaths could AT MOST maybe number 1 billion

[eternal talon]

the fact that shaeffer is described as having "broke free" of the warden's influence, nope.

[finite vine]

well just look at the info they used to make that conclusion... it is a mildly reasonable conclusion but it is also a stretch.

[finite vine]

by him saying he "broke free" he might of just meant that he is not living in hydrostasis anymore or following the wardens objectives.

[eternal talon]

you know project legion was designed to make soldiers that won't question orders, right?

[finite vine]

was it? or are those just KSO's

[eternal talon]

we ARE ksos

[finite vine]

some of us are not though

like dauda

[full hull]

Covid has about 500 million total cases I doubt NAM-V will be able to spread as much as covid and would likely have much much harsher restrictions if it had a high death rate

What exactly is a KSO?

[eternal talon]

kovac security operative

[finite vine]

the line is honestly blurry between kso's and project legion

its confusing

[eternal talon]

it's not.

a kso is a soldier under the legion project

[full hull]

Yeah

[eternal talon]

that's why they are called "operatives" and not staff, or security.

they are tools.

[finite vine]

so all project legion personnel are mindless robots?

[full hull]

Yeah

[finite vine]

? they are not though

[eternal talon]

not necessarily mindless, but they don't have the free will to disobey.

[finite vine]

Schaeffer disobeyed

[full hull]

Schaeffer broke free

Schaeffer is also insane

[eternal talon]

because he broke free, and as far as we know he is the ONLY ONE who ever managed to.

and he did that by being lost deep down below the facility out of the warden's range

his entire team got wiped out and he was the last man standing

[finite vine]

also where are you getting the definition "disobeyed"/"mindless" from? the log where it describes a KSO walking into a closet, standing there for 5 min, and walking back out, right?

[full hull]

Do we even know if schaeffer exists?

[eternal talon]

he was a kso in the same vein dauda is. he was an employee for santonian, but got forced into the program

[full hull]

Like Schaeffer could be the monster that he described

[finite vine]

how could Scheaffer go deep to escape the warden if the warden was controlling him?

[eternal talon]

no. mindless was a bit of poor grammar, but moreso in the sense that they are literally not able to disobey the warden.

[finite vine]

where are u getting that info from

like what log

[full hull]

Warden tells Schaffner go deep to do thing, Schaeffer doesn't know a specific don't go this deep law and walks out of his influence

[eternal talon]

he and his team was sent in on an expedition, we don't know where, everybody died except for him, and the warden stopped sending him orders.

i'd asusme he just wandered down on his own

[full hull]

Hell the elevator could have fallen too

Schaeffer might also be a mimic like sleeper

[eternal talon]

mostly the timeline. i haven't read it in a while. also the personnel log for schaeffer says he worked for santonian before being a kso

[finite vine]

how do you know that the warden stopped sending him orders, and that the warden can even control people?

[eternal talon]

i don't know it stopped sending them orders. not for certain anyway.

[finite vine]

yea I remember the log saying that schaeffer worked for santonian. im just confused on where it implies that the warden can control its prisoners

[eternal talon]

the warden/biocom controlls ksos. KSOs and project legion are DESIGNED to be controlled. they are essentially slaves.

it is stated in a Kovac log that project legion is designed to make the perfect soldiers.

[finite vine]

could u possibly link the logs?

[eternal talon]

they wouldn't be perfect if they could just go away and do their own thing

that, and the rebbecca stokes log shows bishop being essentially a drone and ignoring the staff before going to a kovac only zone

[eternal talon]

i'll see if in can find it

[finite vine]

I thought the prisoners do what the warden says so they don't die and in hydrostasis or get left on an expedition

I honestly find it hard to believe that we are being mind controlled.

[small bobcat]

Well to be fair we dont really have a choice, we just get dropped into the shit and only warden can extract us

[finite vine]

yea, that's what im saying

as for the KSO's that worked for BIOCOM before garganta became overrun, and before WRDN took over, why did they follow BIOCOM's commands?

because they were brain washed? or was it because they had their memories erased so they knew no better.

[full hull]

I mean I'm sure you could manage to live down in the complex for awhile

There seemed to be living plants in hydrophonics beds, if any of them are edible then the food issue is solved

[finite vine]

its basically a prison though

no way out of a pit 1000m deep

[full hull]

Better than having your entire life be killing sleepers

[finite vine]

I mean not really

because you have no hope then

unless you are like schaeffer, and are somehow moving around

[full hull]

You have the hope of living out the rest of your life in peace

[finite vine]

imagine spending 50 years inside a pit

in the dark

[small bobcat]

I actually wouldnt count on that since there seems to be sleepers everywhere

[full hull]

Imagine spending 50 years wondering when someone is gonna make a misstep and get you all killed

[full hull]

They are asleep, clear an area and your fine

[finite vine]

also true

[full hull]

There's power down there, you won't be in the dark

[finite vine]

well no vitamin d from the sun, leads to depression

no human interaction

but same thing applies to prisoners in HSU's lol

https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?p=1c26ce639b4849198f4f8a1ef0783087

the KSO described in this log just acts like a robot

[eternal talon]

told ya

stokes log with bishop also reinforces this.

listening to audio logs rn btw

[finite vine]

I was asking how the KSO's just blindly follow orders

[eternal talon]

they cannot disobey.

we don't know HOW

they just do

they are injected with tons of chemicals and drugs we don't know of during their stay in hydrostasis

and god knows whatever conditioning behind the scenes

and it's not necessarily blindly

we go and find schaeffers' terminal.

we enter code "RESIST"

we can do some stuff on our own, but we can not disobey with what the warden tells us to do.

if anything, we as the main team probably have more freedom than the other teams the WRDN controls, since we keep coming back alive.

it wants to keep it's best team in action

or atleast that's what i'd like to think.

[finite vine]

yea. im remembering what schaeffer said. "they pump us with chemicals", and "make us forget". so its probably a mixture of the memory loss and chemicals during hydrostasis.

However, the prisoners we play as seem like they have the option to disobey. There honestly probably is not a need to pump chemicals into the prisoners the WRDN controls, because if they don't cooperate they will be left in garganta to die.

[eternal talon]

completely goes against the rebecca stokes log in c1 with bishop

and the closet guy.

they physically cannot disobe

disobey

[finite vine]

yea, but that was before the WRDN was in control...

[eternal talon]

we don't know that

[finite vine]

read what I said again

[eternal talon]

also this is a BIOCOM thing

not warden

[subtle verge]

Do we disobey? I'm pretty sure we complete all directives that is required of us and we never seem to question it or defy them. Of course this is just a devil's advocate statement.

[eternal talon]

^

even reading that terminal isn't disobeying, since we still do our job. it's sidestepping.

we have a little control, yes, but we can not go against biocom.

[small bobcat]

Ya we never actually disobeyed any orders

[finite vine]

"However, the prisoners we play as seem like they have the option to disobey. There honestly probably is not a need to pump chemicals into the prisoners the WRDN controls, because if they don't cooperate they will be left in garganta to die."

Where as when garganta was in normal operation, without being overrun by sleepers, the KSO's need to be controlled because they are normally in safe environments. they are not being dropped down into a pit with no way out.

[subtle verge]

But, then again, there is that looming 'if we don't do it, we don't go home,' notion.

[eternal talon]

there isn't an on-off switch

[full hull]

What makes it seem like we have the option to disobey?

[finite vine]

well im sure there is, you just stop giving them chemicals

if thats how its done

[eternal talon]

tell that the the WRDN.

that runs biocom

the same system that controlled the ksos back then too.

and all of Kovac for that matter.

[subtle verge]

Which makes sense, really, as we know that certain chemicals make us more agreeable to do certain tasks. Alcohol is a prime example.

[eternal talon]

if you reaaaaly wanna go it that way, then we are "unwilling yes-men"

[finite vine]

Well its honestly hard to tell because we are real humans playing the game, so we can disobey. the only thing im going off of really is that the character banter back and forth and don't act like rigid robots, which the KSO acted like during the "closet" log.

[full hull]

This can actually give us a decent theory for how Schaffner escaped, he went on a mission long enough that the chemicals wore off enough for him to start resisting

[finite vine]

also we read logs on terminals, and we entered the code "resist" to listen to schaeffer

which is free thinking

[eternal talon]

we do act like rigid robots. literally one of the team too, bishop in the stokes log.

[full hull]

Also you can be unable to disobey orders while still having some free will

For example you can complain about your job while you are doing it

[finite vine]

yea, but that was before he was in the WRDN's control. also in the EF-01 log he has emotion in his voice, fear.

[eternal talon]

my guy

[full hull]

The prisoners are being forced to do their jobs, they aren't being forced to like them

[eternal talon]

it's biocom

the warden isn't a seperate thing

they are the same

they are the same network

[finite vine]

ok. then why was it renamed to WRDN? and why was the WRDN package injected into BIOCOM?

[eternal talon]

we don't know.

presumeably warden renamed itself to warden

[finite vine]

the fact that we dont know is not my point. my point is that somehting most likely changed about BIOCOM when WRDN was injected into it

[eternal talon]

yes but that doesn't make it NOT biocom

[finite vine]

yea I know.

[eternal talon]

biocom runs literally everything kovac related

and almost all security in garganta

[full hull]

Things get renamed all the time

[subtle verge]

Yeah, I 300% believe that we have more free will than the previous generations and referenced KSOs. Part of me wonders why, with this free will, we haven't followed the path that Schaeffer took. Now, I know that's probably a game design / direction choice rather than a lore choice, but still.

Just a side thought that I have.

[finite vine]

its honestly because we dont wanna die in a pit lol

[full hull]

What makes you feel that we have more free will

[eternal talon]

as to why were have more free will, my go-to is that it's because we are the best team the WRDN has. essentially, it's special forces. we get shit done and come back alive, so it gives us a little bit more leeway to get it done

[eternal talon]

yes, but i doubt that's why we can't disobey.

[finite vine]

its obvious. we banter back and fourth. we listen to logs. when the prisoners interview audio logs play, they literally talk about each other. this behavior is way more free than the behavior of the KSO in the "closet" log

[eternal talon]

again, bishop in the stokes log

you can't ingore that

it's literally one of the 4 main characters

[full hull]

We aren't being told to have no personality, we are being told to do X objective and to not do anything against the WRDN

Bantering doesn't harm the warden or objective

[eternal talon]

unless it wakes sleepers, then we get quiet.

[subtle verge]

Uhhh I mean yeah, there is definitely that aspect. I just wonder if there are alternative reasons outside of that, say something along the lines of Dauda's 'we're all infected' line and we want to get this stuff done so we can prevent that horrible death if we are infected.

[full hull]

It's not ONLY do the objective, it's just you have to do the objective and you can't work against the WRDN, otherwise the rest is up in the air

[solar nova]

It's probably something the WRDN adds to BIOCOM's functionality. Its style of accomplishing objectives is unique, and probably designed to better suit fighting what is essentially a guerilla war against the sleepers.

[subtle verge]

But that's a side thought, as I said.

[solar nova]

Something like that, anyway.

The engineer's intentions are unclear.

[eternal talon]

engineer?

[solar nova]

If they made a new version of BIOCOM, that would make them an engineer in the colloquial sense.

[eternal talon]

i don't understand

[solar nova]

If somebody builds a bridge, they are the engineer of that bridge.

[finite vine]

yea, but like I said before, that was before garganta was overrun, so a significant amount of time has passed.

also think about it, you are a military company trying to make a soldier (KDS - sub 2058 ish), you brainwash them and try to control them (KSO). you have to find a way to control them, because the outside world is normal, and you want to use these soldiers in conditions where it would be easy for them to rebel against you, so you need to control them.

then, once WRDN was injected into BIOCOM (sometime after 2050) and had the prisoners, it didn't need to mind control them, because they were being sent into a pit, with no way out. if they didn't obey the WRDN, the would not be picked up from the pit, and they would be left to die.

KSO's have less freedom because they are used in situations where they can rebel easily
Prisoners have more freedom because they are used in situations where if they rebel, they starve in a pit.

[eternal talon]

are they? isn't it architect?

[solar nova]

They're synonymous.

[eternal talon]

it won't just stop controlling them just because.

there is no reason not-to

[finite vine]

well depends on the resources

[eternal talon]

and many reasons why you should

[eternal talon]

and we know zero of them

[solar nova]

Although engineer is probably a bit broader.

[eternal talon]

this is why we are called prisoners btw

oh shit, first schaeffer log?

[finite vine]

isnt this jordy, a worker?

[eternal talon]

i dunno

okay, so @finite vine i found it

this is why i said the warden thought schaeffer died and stopped sending him orders

[finite vine]

The first log we hear Schaeffer from, he says that he lost his team, and he is not going back up. He has free will. We literally listened to the log on the same terminal he recorded it on, right? So if he was deep enough to break the wardens connection, then why was our connection not broken?

[eternal talon]

part of his rambling

[eternal talon]

we don't know how deep his team was.

afik we don't pass 2km down

[finite vine]

I think we went on the same expedition as Schaeffer right?

[eternal talon]

no

the warden has access to hundreds, maybe a couple thousand teams of KSOs

[finite vine]

then how are we listening to his logs.

[eternal talon]

because he left it there for us to find it like he says IN THE LOG?

to tell us to go deeper

[finite vine]

lmao if he left it there then he was there before

[eternal talon]

that doesn't mean that's where his team was when they got wiped out

he could have been down there for years.

[finite vine]

ok true

there are honestly some plot holes. In one of his logs he literally says "I can hear you opening doors" but once we get into the levels, no doors are open

[eternal talon]

see? right here

he is telling you to go even deeper down

he is luring us to where his team got wiped

[solar nova]

He's literally everywhere, though.

[eternal talon]

to try and get us free

the only way he knows how

how he did.

[finite vine]

true. he could be talking about alarm doors though, like he hears the alarm.

[finite vine]

just the fact that the lore implies that we can enter the code resist into a terminal shows that the prisoners can think freely to an extent

[solar nova]

Couldn't it just be he chose not to return? The WRDN only really sends orders, it seems like we're mostly controlled by our own perception that we need to get the objective and get out.

[finite vine]

I mean thats what im saying

[solar nova]

Especially if he's now a solo.

[eternal talon]

"not me, i escaped, i broke my programming" your prisoners, resources" "your still a routine in a machine"

it's not psychological. it's a physical thing it would seem. drugs, chemicals, or otherwise.

[finite vine]

well this could mean that he decided to not go back up to the surface. it could really mean alot.

[solar nova]

That's not implied at all.

Hell, "routine in the machine" is extremely metaphorical.

[finite vine]

well a drug that effects us psychologically

bro we need more info. give us r7 or r6.5 already lmao

[solar nova]

"broke my programming" sounds to me like "I'm not following the WRDN's orders."

Besides, drugs and the sort aren't super necessary when you can feed the prisoners a story ("complete the objective and get out," "work together or die together," "we have no choice") to control them, in addition to hydrostasis preventing prisoners from constructing long-term plans.

[eternal talon]

woah woah woah WTF
floaties use hunting strategies????

what is the level of their intelligence?

[solar nova]

Probably the usual colony structure.

[eternal talon]

AHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHA

[solar nova]

I take this as evidence that the dark pigmented sleepers are indeed serving as "hunters" that roam the complex in search of prey or threats.

[eternal talon]

"YOU CANT TALK TO THEM, YOU CANT TALK TO ANY OF THEM, THEIR ROBOTS"

I FOUND IT

IT'S THIS VOICE LOG!

@finite vine

AHA!

[solar nova]

This doesn't change much?

[eternal talon]

it means i win

[finite vine]

lol

what log?

[solar nova]

KSOs pre-WRDN (or pre-WRDN being very open about its existence) are clearly not like the prisoners we play as.

[eternal talon]

@finite vine

[finite vine]

^thats pre-WRDN

[solar nova]

EF-01 second log.

[eternal talon]

it's bishop!

what else do you want???

[solar nova]

Yes, pre-WRDN Bishop.

[finite vine]

yea but its literally years and years ago...

[eternal talon]

WARDEN = BIOCOM

[finite vine]

NO

[solar nova]

Yes, but no.

[eternal talon]

THEY ARE THE SAME SYSTEM

[finite vine]

then why was the name changed and why did someone go through the trouble to hack it?

[solar nova]

One of the major changes the WRDN makes to BIOCOM is how it handles KSOs.

[finite vine]

also, its the time difference.

[eternal talon]

that has no bearing on the ksos

they are tools

the same as terminators are tools for skynet.

just a means to an end

[solar nova]

KSOs are literally NPCs for BIOCOM, but the WRDN gives them much more freedom to think and act than the original version of BIOCOM did.

[eternal talon]

regardless of who's technically in control

[eternal talon]

the entire point of this conversation is if the KSOs have free will

[solar nova]

You're not understanding.

[eternal talon]

this goes to show, no. they are not completely free.

[finite vine]

@eternal talon you are talking about the bishop that was a KSO under control by Kovac who knows how many years ago. the bishop now is under control by the WRDN, and he is obviously different.

[eternal talon]

kovac is under control of biocom

[finite vine]

kovac is a company that controls BIOCOM

humans

[eternal talon]

the entire point of the biocom system is to run kovac

[solar nova]

What the EF-01 log, and other logs about KSOs before the present day, is that KSOs handled by the original BIOCOM and KSOs as prisoners under the WRDN are not the same.

[eternal talon]

they feed it data, it feeds them orders

[finite vine]

no? its to provide objective stacks to KSO's and give them info to complete their mission.

[solar nova]

The prisoners we play as are not "robots" as described in the EF-01 log.

[finite vine]

humans can control BIOCOM. they can give it info, and change its objective stacks.

[eternal talon]

@analog frigate help

you are the big brain data dump of information

gives infos pls

[solar nova]

Again, a characteristic that seems to differentiate the WRDN from BIOCOM is that it allows KSOs to have more individuality than the original BIOCOM.

I don't think there's much info that would sway me, I've held this view in response to the R6 logs that describe KSOs (the "strange BIOCOM behavior" log and the 2nd EF-01 expedition log).

[eternal talon]

^

[solar nova]

This doesn't respond to anything that's at stake.

[eternal talon]

the warden would have no reason to cripple itself

by making it's soldiers not under it's control

[solar nova]

"The WRDN is not a counter-intel AI" is a completely compatible position with the views I'm defending.

[solar nova]

It's not crippling itself.

[eternal talon]

what are you talking about?

[solar nova]

Individuality is a feature, not a bug. If I had to guess, KSOs that can think for themselves are just better equipped to adapt to the situations we encounter in the complex.

Again, the WRDN seems to be treating the complex as a guerilla war against the sleepers, and chances are that KSOs with individuality are better suited for winning a guerilla war than KSOs that can only follow step-by-step instructions.

[eternal talon]

we don't know what the warden wants

literally anything from saving humanity, to saving itself.

[solar nova]

I don't think that it's unfair to infer that prisoners having more self-determination is conducive to what the WRDN's goals are.

[eternal talon]

schaeffer is a threat to the warden

it is turning it's forces against it

[solar nova]

Not really, at least not right now.

[eternal talon]

schaeffer literally tells us to "FIGHT BACK AGAINST THE WARDEN"

the man by himself, no

[solar nova]

From what we know so far, Schaffer is really just a crazy person that spent 200 hours soloing R4E1. He doesn't seem to actually have any recruits yet.

[eternal talon]

but turning the few soldiers it has is a problem for it.

[eternal talon]

well i will be first in line if we have a choice who to side with in a later rundown.

[solar nova]

If I tell you I'm going to kill you in real life, you should still report me obv, but I'm probably not an actual threat. On the other hand, if I were a person literally outside your house saying I'm going to kill you, that's a lot more fucking real.

Schaeffer is, for now, all bark and no bite to the WRDN, it doesn't seem like it cares that much for now for w/e reason.

[eternal talon]

it's not that he isn't trying. he is literally going after the warden's best squad. i mean, we have plot armor!

[toxic wagon]

[solar nova]

Sure, but we haven't (yet) actually gone against the WRDN.

[toxic wagon]

Our prisoner team is just Built Different

[solar nova]

And nobody else has, apparently.

[eternal talon]

i wonder how 10c would handle that.

[toxic wagon]

(Sometimes stupid)

[solar nova]

Big shrug tbh.

[eternal talon]

picking a team in-game. team warden or team schaeffer. (unique missions maybe?)

[toxic wagon]

Gtfo warden vs Schaeffer

Pvp

[eternal talon]

no pvp

[toxic wagon]

[eternal talon]

splitting a rundown in half with a choice per-player at the end of a1 would be interesting

[finite vine]

yea this is a good analyzation. during dr durants log on destination alpha, he literally said the KSO's are just blindly following orders, and are not allowing them to go back to the jump zone to instantiate a matter wave to go back to garganta, which actually got a lot more people killed because they were just ordered to sit in a cave. so the difference between KSO's and Prisoners are that the Prisoners can adapt to situations more than the KSO's

which is needed when fighting sleepers

[eternal talon]

technically still, 3/4ths of our team are KSOs.

there are bound to be residual effects.

from such heavy control

[finite vine]

they were KSO's. they are no longer under Kovacs rule (I assume).

Kovac Security Operative. they do not work for kovac anymore, they are under the wardens control.

[eternal talon]

KSO is just the term for soldiers under project legion

[finite vine]

Its a term for a soldier being controlled by Kovac

[solar nova]

Well, I think you could consider any person taking orders from BIOCOM to be a KSO.

[finite vine]

once kovac is no longer in possession of the KSO's, who ever gets them can do anything they want with them.

[solar nova]

Not necessarily Kovac.

[eternal talon]

all kovac security are not all KSOs, but all project legion soldiers are KSOs.

[solar nova]

Wouldn't it be not all KSOs are from the legion, but all legion soldiers are KSOs?

[eternal talon]

yes

[finite vine]

I think project legion really has no ties to the current prisoners, except that some of them once went through project legion. I believe that the WRDN is honestly using anyone it cant get its hands on.

[solar nova]

Like, I'd still say Dauda is a KSO, because he's a prisoner under the WRDN.

[finite vine]

really? I thought that project legion was the process to make mindless KSO's

[quick grove]

dauda is not KSO

[solar nova]

Sure, that's the main source of KSOs as far as we know, but Dauda ofc just entered an HSU and that eventually found its way into BIOCOM's stock.

No, I consider Dauda a KSO by definition because he is a prisoner.

[quick grove]

he's a scientis/ doctor who put himself in hydrostatus

[finite vine]

actually there is no confirmation of this, just speculation. it sure seems like this is true though.

[finite vine]

I think KSO's were once controlled by BIOCOM, before garganta was overrun

Dauda never worked for Kovac as a security operative, and never took orders from Biocom, so I dont think he was a KSO.

[eternal talon]

there can't be any new KSOs after kovac fell.

i don't think dauda would qualify.

[finite vine]

yea I think the definition of a KSO is someone that took orders from BIOCOM and worked for Kovac

then the WRDN is just using the KSO supply and anyone else available

like dauda

and potentially schaeffer

[solar nova]

I view "KSO" as describing a person's being commanded by BIOCOM, not an occupation under Kovac. KSOs are defined by their relationship to BIOCOM, not by their relationship to Kovac.

Therefore, all prisoners are necessarily KSOs.

[finite vine]

I mean KSO stands for Kovac Security Operatives.

[eternal talon]

it's not called bso

[finite vine]

also prisoners are not controlled by the same BIOCOM that controlled KSO's

because the WRDN was injected

[solar nova]

The WRDN is still a version of BIOCOM, so everybody under the WRDN's command is also under BIOCOM's command.

[solar nova]

Language doesn't work this way. I know there are examples of this exact issue, where reading terminology too literally fails to match the phrase's actual meaning. It seems super clear to me, personally, that KSO is, in essence, a noun describing any human that BIOCOM commands.

"Kovac" is more-so a stamp of authorship.

[finite vine]

You are failing to look at the big picture. KSO's worked for Kovac and followed BIOCOM's orders. KSO's are created and brainwashed through Project Legion. This all occurs before the WRDN was injected, and before the sleepers overran the complex. KSO's are strictly Kovac owned and trained.

The WRDN's prisoners are used by some entity or person/ group of people. They consist of anyone the WRDN can get his hands on. KSO's stored in hydrostasis, and people like Dauda who used hydrostasis as shelter. This all takes place at a separate time as well, after garganta was overrun.

Calling Dauda a KSO implies that he went through Project Legion and worked for Kovac as a KSO before garganta became overrun, which he did not.

I mean thats how im interpreting it anyways.

[solar nova]

Do you know what RITZ crackers are?

[finite vine]

yea

Its the same thing with BIOCOM and WRDN. The WRDN exists within a different time period as BIOCOM, and the WRDN is an attachment to BIOCOM, potentially run by someone other than Kovac.

I know we already had that conversation though lol

[eternal talon]

it's an AI

[finite vine]

Its possible that someone is controlling it and maintaining it to meet their own needs

[south lake]

They're not saying it isn't. Shackled AI are also a thing.

[eternal talon]

https://tenor.com/view/jennifer-lawrence-dead-theyre-all-dead-gif-14156476

[finite vine]

lol

[solar nova]

If the RITZ brand's owners, Mondelez, decided tomorrow that they were going to rebrand RITZ crackers for w/e reason, and every box since them were instead labeled "Mondelez crackers," would it be wrong in a year, 2 years, 10 years, you get the idea, to still call these RITZ crackers?

What about if RITZ lost its rights to the cracker, and the company went out of business, but something company called "Killian" started selling "Killian crackers" with an identical design? Would it be wrong to call them RITZ crackers?

[south lake]

Technically, yes to both.

[eternal talon]

have you ever heard of a dumpster? zippo? hoover? Ziplock?

[finite vine]

yea it would be wrong to call them RITZ crackers, because they are being manufactured by a separate company, using separate resources and under separate management.

[solar nova]

I completely disagree. It's a fucking RITZ cracker.

Language does not work this way.

[south lake]

Legality does. Which is why I said technically.

[finite vine]

anyway that is not the same situation that KSO's are in. they go though different processes than the WRDN's prisoners go though. used for different things too.

[solar nova]

Nobody gives a shit what a court of law rules about company ownership.

[eternal talon]

temper, temper.

[south lake]

Right. If you're gonna get pissy about this, you can continue this topic on your own, because I'm not taking part in it.

Anyway.

Honestly, I would say that the term "KSO" applies in a general sense, if only because we don't really have an alternative term to use except 'Prisoner'.

[finite vine]

We have basically had this conversation before so we better stop now lol

[south lake]

And if you think about it, they're not controlled by Kovac, no, but they're still technically "generi-brand" security operatives.

[solar nova]

Why would that make them not KSOs? The WRDN is still a version of BIOCOM, so why would KSOs not just be a version of KSO?

[finite vine]

"Calling Dauda a KSO implies that he went through Project Legion and worked for Kovac as a KSO before garganta became overrun, which he did not."

[south lake]

Rayalot, WRDN has - to what limited knowledge we have - overwritten BIOCOM, meaning that BIOCOM effectively doesn't exist anymore.

Regardless of how you view the intricacies of language, overwriting a program effectively deletes that program and replaces it with something else.

With similar functionality in this case, yes

But it is still a different program

[eternal talon]

C# and C++

[finite vine]

This is like calling a normal marine a navy seal just because they are both in the navy

[solar nova]

Inheritance doesn't strictly overwrite the parent class. The purpose of having inheritance at all is because there is a lot of redundancy between the parent and the child.

[solar nova]

I'm not well enough versed on the meaning of those divisions, but I take KSO to mean "you are in the navy" not "you are a navy seal."

[south lake]

You're assuming that BIOCOM is still "running in the background" as it were. We have no indication to believe that it is, only that WRDN has appropriated what files it had access to, and the codebase that allows it to function.

It is, quite literally, acting similar to a virus

A virus that appropriates a program does not mean it is that program

[solar nova]

Well, no, that's literally what inheritance is. BIOCOM is necessarily running in the background.

[finite vine]

well the navy seal are the KSO's, and the marine is Dauda

[solar nova]

It's not like malware at all in that respect.

[solar nova]

But why would we think that?

[finite vine]

just because they are in the same "branch" (wrdn) does not mean they have the same title

[solar nova]

KSOs don't seem to be a specific branch, they just seem to be whoever serves under BIOCOM.

[finite vine]

because it literally is that way. Navy seals have more sophisticated training are are using for different things than a normal marine.

[south lake]

How is it not? It bypassed BIOCOM's intrusion countermeasures and even retaliated with its own, causing BIOCOM to malfunction.

[finite vine]

"KSO's worked for Kovac and followed BIOCOM's orders. KSO's are created and brainwashed through Project Legion. This all occurs before the WRDN was injected, and before the sleepers overran the complex. KSO's are strictly Kovac owned and trained. "

"The WRDN's prisoners are used by some entity or person/ group of people. They consist of anyone the WRDN can get his hands on. KSO's stored in hydrostasis, and people like Dauda who used hydrostasis as shelter. This all takes place at a separate time as well, after garganta was overrun. "

[solar nova]

So, it can be both, correct?

[south lake]

No? I implied no such thing.

[solar nova]

I'm asserting as much.

[south lake]

A virus is not both a virus and the program it's overwritten.

A virus is a virus is a virus. It does what it's programmed to do, whether that involves utilizing another program's codebase or not.

[solar nova]

Well, that's not entailed by being a virus.

[south lake]

The existence of the codebase does not mean the original program is still active or even present

[solar nova]

It's just not typically practical for malware to inherit an existing class in some other infrastructure.

[solar nova]

Inheritance does.

[south lake]

These are not typical situations, and you taint your theories by assuming as such.

[solar nova]

This isn't just code sitting in the background.

The WRDN explicitly uses BIOCOM's code.

[south lake]

That doesn't mean that the WRDN is also BIOCOM. It is not operating strictly within BIOCOM's parameters. It is not limited as BIOCOM is.

It operates in a similar manner to BIOCOM, but that also does not mean that it's BIOCOM. You're relying on the concept of inheritance far too much

[solar nova]

Which is more likely?
A child class will defer to the parent class's functions and data fields, but will have features unique to itself.
A child class will have totally different functionality from the parent class, and disable or completely change most of the parent class's functions and data fields.

[south lake]

It doesn't matter what's more likely, what matters is what's happening.

And so far, all signs point to the latter.

[solar nova]

I mean, the game devs being game devs means they have coders on-staff, I doubt they're going to go all in on comp sci woo when they can be pretty realistic about it.

[south lake]

That's neither here nor there. You don't see any code developers commenting on this topic, do you?

As I've said, you rely far too much on the "That's not how inheritance works" argument

[solar nova]

No? I have the complete opposite impression. It seems like the WRDN is doing almost all of the stuff BIOCOM does, but with key differences. It commands a body of people in hydrostasis, tells them what to do, is trying to accomplish objectives at all costs, is acting as a combat DI, etc., but it's adherence to outside influence (and what its objectives are in general) and how it commands its body of soldiers are different.

Bro, I literally study CS.

[south lake]

Ah yes, the classic "I have a degree in XYZ" counterpoint.

[solar nova]

I'm not claiming any degree.

[south lake]

Similar idea.

Anyway.

Just because it acts similar to BIOCOM does not mean that it is BIOCOM. I've said this already.

If you were making the argument that they're both a specific type of AI, yes, I agree.

But - to use another example - you're arguing the point that an apple is an orange, and you're being extremely pedantic about it on top of that.

And outright hostile when pressed on the topic, going by earlier.

[solar nova]

Your child classes inherit from parent classes in OOP because you want your child class to do most of the things the parent class does, but you want it to have new functions or different functionality for the parent's functions. You wouldn't really inherit a parent class if it were radically different.

My impression is also that BIOCOM's codebase is probably largely a lot of back-end functionality, stuff like performing calculations, storing data, maintaining itself and associated equipment, etc. There's not much reason to make sweeping changes to any of the technical load for something like BIOCOM.

[south lake]

You wouldn't really inherit a parent class if it were radically different. This is disingenuous.

[solar nova]

I don't think so?

[south lake]

WRDN was very clearly designed to take over BIOCOM's functions, radically different or no.

[solar nova]

Outside of the game's lore, why do you think this isn't true?

[south lake]

We're not discussing outside of the game's lore. We're discussing WRDN and BIOCOM specifically.

[solar nova]

If the existing functions aren't at least good archetypes to build from, and I'm replacing 80-90% of the code altogether, why would I use inheritance instead of just making a new class altogether?

[south lake]

If you want to discuss out-of-game concepts, take it elsewhere. This is the Lore channel.

[solar nova]

Well now you're being bad faith.

[south lake]

Am I, really? You're the one that's getting a mite tetchy whenever people disagree on your "WRDN is BIOCOM" theory.

[solar nova]

I have some confidence that the devs probably wouldn't have mentioned inheritance at all if it didn't have narrative significance, and I think they should have some understanding of how it usually plays out in software design.

I haven't had anything to complain about for the "WRDN is BIOCOM" thing.

I think claiming a RITZ cracker isn't a RITZ cracker under new ownership in branding is a lost cause to argue against, so I'll opt to inflammatory.

[south lake]

So far you seem to take issue with anyone disagreeing with your theory about how inheritance works with a program we know next to nothing about, and haven't ever seen in operation in the real world.

[solar nova]

Bro, you're reading a lot of ill-will into my arguments.

I enjoy arguing.

I think I'm right, and I think you should agree with me.

[south lake]

I don't, and at this rate won't. Deal with it.

[solar nova]

Okay?

[south lake]

I'm open to discussion, but if you want things to get outright volatile (your comment about enjoying arguments), that's not what this channel is about, and I'm not going to play into that any further.

[solar nova]

Why would you consider arguments to be a negative?

Also, what have I said that's particularly inflammatory after anything to do with RITZ crackers?

[subtle verge]

From a face value, this feels like a Theseus paradox, but I understand what you mean.

Not saying it is, it just gave me the vibes.

[solar nova]

Maybe, but my counterpoint would be that inheritance is like if the Ship of Theseus had necessary components that you could never switch out, or if you changed them it would be a new paint job or changing out some nails.

It's not impossible, ofc, that those necessary parts aren't actually that important to what makes the SoT the SoT, but my inclination is that this isn't the case for BIOCOM and the WRDN. The differences we observe to me seem like they'd probably either be pretty narrow or redesigns of existing infrastructure (for example, the objective stack is still probably a data field the WRDN uses, or if it's different it's probably just been changed from a stack to a different list structure).

[subtle verge]

I could see the argument for and against the paradox, I think. Replace BIOCOMs "worn out" objective stack with WRDN's stack, then replace it's administrative power with a WRDN's administrative power. It's still, objectively, the same systems, but is it still BIOCOM?

I don't know, I think I agree with you more than I do the concept of the paradox.

[dull crest]

Oh no, The Warden is alive

[subtle verge]

Out with the old Warden, in with the new!

[smoky sigil]

damn

thought i was the straitest man i could be

but that pfp

[quick grove]

What pfp

[smoky sigil]

this one

[dull crest]

ALIVE!!

[smoky sigil]

🅿️

[dull crest]

Or is it that we are all dead? Lost style.

[analog frigate]

what

[harsh saffron]

oh hey Warden went to .7 🙂

[dim scroll]

oh 🅱️oi

[eternal talon]

What do you mean it's alive? Isn't it an AI?

[eternal talon]

Rundown 7 incoming !!??

[harsh saffron]

makes R7 more likely than R6 ext at least
or it just keeps going up until .100 just for fun

[eternal talon]

Dont

[harsh saffron]

Do

[eternal talon]

Not

[eternal talon]

Scroll up to the convo between me, skyrope, and rayalot. Need info.

[analog frigate]

they are essentially the same neural network base, although the WRDN has different protocols and directives

about the "more freedom to think" part, we can't exactly confirm

we don't have enough from when the BIOCOM was in charge to compare with

[dim scroll]

Are we sure that everyone, including the person that injected the WRDN code into BIOCOM, is dead ?

[eternal talon]

No, but its been at least half-a decade with the age of disrepair we see in game, and through 6 rundowns, not a sign of a single person

[subtle verge]

We aren't 100% certain, though we can make incredibly educated guesses with visual cues and what we've seen through logs thus far.

[dim scroll]

indeed

[eternal talon]

Other than Schaeffer

[full hull]

It could just be that the complex is abandoned

No clue how many people got evacuated to the surface

[dim scroll]

None supposedly

[eternal talon]

But I mean Schaeffer was in HSU like us, he wasn't just down there

[eternal talon]

There was an exclusion zone setup around garganta, and Mexico declared martial law

I doubt anybody made it out

[full hull]

Fair enough

[eternal talon]

The only real concern is the WHO getting in much later on, and that's IF they, or any real organization for that matter, still exist by 2060-2065 or whenever the game starts in r1.

[dim scroll]

Actually nothing mentions when did the warden start sending prisoners into the complex

Maybe it was a year before R1

or five

😳

[eternal talon]

Well, maybe, but we are the protagonists.

Our squad

So it would make a bit of sense if we are at least close to the first squad the WRDN woke up

If not the first

[subtle verge]

If I remember correctly, the last log that had an alive human other than us was 2054. The WHO repeater message was 2057. It is possible that R1 started around that timeframe.

[analog frigate]

hypothetically that could've been what woke the warden up

but then it wouldn't coincide with the brainfuck wake up requirements code

[eternal talon]

Closet too.

[subtle verge]

It's plausible, but as Lostty stated we have to remember the 2 logs we know of Warden's interference: Closet/Stop log, and then the power transfer log.

Which I think was 2052/53?

[dull crest]

What is life?

[eternal talon]

Philosophically speaking? Or scientifically speaking?

Because scientifically speaking something like a virus doesn't qualify as being alive if I remember correctly, so an AI definitely wouldn't.

[smoky sigil]

im so confused

is @dull crest a real person

[subtle verge]

Define "real"

[smoky sigil]

big bruh hours

[subtle verge]

Calle is as real as you and I am, alas he is but an enigma. I think that's what makes him a really cool community manager.

[eternal talon]

They are the community manager

[smoky sigil]

ok

[dull crest]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-bean-bean-rowan-atkinson-atkinson-smiling-gif-22135030

[smoky sigil]

🅿️ushin

[eternal talon]

What is this supposed to mean

[smoky sigil]

he's watching

[rare scaffold]

New update when warden bot hits a certain number :p

Its just loading lol

[finite vine]

There is a log from 2056 describing the events of a human still in Garganta. https://www.notion.so/BIOCOM-audio-intercept-860f5b5e30304a4fa8f9e554b95a4bdd

[eternal talon]

oh my god!

it's the old rundown 1 bot!

[subtle verge]

Ah, right, the death of Artus. Forgot that was labelled late 2056.

[eternal talon]

that's not new, it's the og!

[hot burrow]

I message that thing asking if he wanted to play C2 lol

[dull crest]

Did it... respond?

[analog frigate]

well it's a "bot", but not a bot

[hot burrow]

no

[eternal talon]

Are you asking us to check our DMs?

[dull crest]

No.

[quick grove]

It went to v1.WRDN.7

[harsh saffron]

that is indeed true

[eternal talon]

yeah?

it did that this morning

seriously nobody but me notice?

[harsh saffron]

👆

[eternal talon]

just you and me, wiki man.

[harsh saffron]

I've seen it in a few channels actually ^^

[eternal talon]

i haven't, lol

[harsh saffron]

think it was in #general #gtfo-related-questions and #gtfo-chat

[celest pagoda]

Checked the SMC website, nothing changed

y e t

[harsh saffron]

yeah, I've checking for the past few days

[celest pagoda]

same

[eternal talon]

https://tenor.com/view/obi-wan-star-wars-impossible-perhaps-the-archives-are-incomplete-gif-14446354

[harsh saffron]

I was even searching if they created a website for KDS or dreyfus yet ^^

[celest pagoda]

S a m e. I'd love to have a little web based adventure for GTFO

imagine

[harsh saffron]

ctf but the flag is lore

[lilac island]

So just to be clear, GTFO takes place in the Garganta facility, not the Chicxulub one right?

[quick grove]

@harsh saffron

[harsh saffron]

There's only 1 facility as far as we know

[lilac island]

The external walls at Gar§|nta have been poured and I have been given an estimate of 8 weeks for curing before we can start drilling the primary shaft. I am sure you heard about the accident we had at pump #14. The flooding was quickly contained, and all workers have signed the necessary waiv²¾s and NDAs. I want to assure you the report will indicate the accident happened at the mining operation [unintelligible] and not at Garganta. If any official agencies do raise concerns over our methods, they will direct their attention to the Chicxulub operation first, and we will have time to adjust as necessary at Garganta before they stick their noses in.

Am I missing a log that explains them being the same? I remember other logs implying they're separate sites too.

[subtle verge]

Garganta is built within the Chicxulub crater.