gtfo-lore

[eternal talon]

lore note: while we are technically called "PRISONERS", it is disingenuous to compare us to your modern convicts. we are an engineered slave army of MILITARY KSOs in 2060-2065.

[silent jewel]

Just my thoughts but it could have been that whatever species made the MWP just wanted a way to get back to its home planet

[solar nova]

Seems likely to me for now. It probably wasn't used to transport the entire Fossil, just to bring people to and fro.

[silent jewel]

The fossil is referring to the meteor right

[solar nova]

We don't know how many destinations they had, though, or what purpose Destination Alpha specifically had for them.

[solar nova]

Yes.

[eternal talon]

honestly, we are closer to THIS than your modern inmate in 2022.

[silent jewel]

Alpha gives me nuclear wasteland vibes honestly

[eternal talon]

god knows what kind of drugs kovac was pumping us with when we were made into KSOs

@analog frigate aren't we STILL, being constantly pumped with drugs while in HSU?

[solar nova]

If we have a Destination Beta, that would be hype.

[analog frigate]

hypothetically we are constantly under some effect as to remain in stasis

what kind of drugs they actually give us and the effects that they give are unknown

[eternal talon]

yeah

[solar nova]

"It's possible they're using hunting strategies, or at least they work together to..."
This line from the EF-01 entries interests me. Gives some amount of credence to the idea that the dark pigmented sleepers we see for blood doors and alarms are are indeed hunting parties, seeking out prey and attempting to overwhelm them.

I like the model tbh, gives a lot of explanations for what we see in-game.

-Surge alarms could be explained as us being in the middle of some sort of hub for the hunting parties, where a fuckton of them are present nearby.
-Diversion objectives can be understood as us attempting to influence the behavior of the hunting parties, potentially moving the epicenter off of an area the WRDN wants to access or just clearing out a sizeable chunk of them to make things easier for other teams.
-Hybrids are connecting the hibernating and hunting parties, similar to scouts but as hunters rather than hibernators, by either committing to hibernation in an area or forming a roaming group with hibernating allies based on the local situation.

[spice cloud]

I do wish we had more info about that other planet in gtfo

[subtle verge]

Definitely interesting. Would give credence to the idea we had of a colony-like nature for the sleepers.

There are some species of ants (I'm unsure if it's all ants or only some species) that send out hunting parties.

[solar nova]

It would also help explain why the complex was overwhelmed to begin with.

They must have been actively hunting at some point, and we have the datacenter biosignature console indicating some unknown presence moving steadily upwards.

[spice cloud]

maybe the complex sent out a few exploration parties to that planet and then the parasites and some other life form hitched a ride of the unaware explorers

when they came back through the portal

[solar nova]

Possible, but NAM-V, and probably the parasite, predated reaching the Fossil by quite a bit.

They seems to have been other minor artifacts found at high elevations that may have been the initial point of contact.

The Mayan logs also suggest both parasite and virus have been around for a long time.

[spice cloud]

the virus was probably inside the meteor slowly leaking out through the dirt

how does this sound when the complex made their big portal to that planet it allowed the creation of smaller less stable portals to open connecting to any device or artifact that had that teleportation ore in its design

[solar nova]

Possible, but not necessarily relevant.

Sleepers would be here, with or without.

[spice cloud]

what I am saying is that the parasite was in the complex but the small portals opening allowed more of them to come from that other planet to the complex

[solar nova]

Plausible, but still not necessarily relevant.

It could go either way.

Could also be the portals were around without any external interference.

There's some evidence of that actually from the Edgar/Teale log.

Something weird shows up in some deep shaft that Edgar witnesses, which might have come through some kind of portal.

And this is definitely pre-MWP.

(not that something else couldn't have been disturbed, but the Hammerstein Collection is the set of big kahunas).

[spice cloud]

curious

is there a place online where I could find this log

[solar nova]

@spice cloud Check log database or wiki

Log database is in pins.

They should have every rundown, for the record.

Lots of good info.

Log database is nice since you can filter by tag or view the timeline for chronology.

[spice cloud]

wow there is a lot of data to go through

[subtle verge]

Yep. All of the reading will take you around 1.5-2hrs.

Unless you're a speed reader, obv.

[spice cloud]

well I am not a speed reader

[subtle verge]

Same here.

[spice cloud]

I bet same for most here

[spice cloud]

I just read it very interesting

[solar nova]

There's a lot there tbh.

I occasionally reread logs to see if anything stands out in light of new info.

[spice cloud]

I am now going log by log

one after the other

[eternal talon]

this may help you

it is a summary of most available lore.

[spice cloud]

I still feel like the asteroid was sent by aliens

[spice cloud]

good summary

[finite vine]

The stokes logs and the hammerstein logs also make it seem like an alien race was using the MWP as a propulsion device, imho.

And the data cubes are used with the MWP to set a destination.

[solar nova]

It does seem pretty heavily implied, yeah.

Don't really need to convince me there.

[finite vine]

honestly if there are only three data cubes on board, and they all have nav data for planet alpha, then that actually implies that the destination for the fossil was actually planet alpha, not the origin.

[quick grove]

Nah lol they were drilling into the meteor and when they cracked NAM V with sleepers broke lose

[quick grove]

Data cubes doesn't look human made if i remember correctly

[solar nova]

It's possible, but it could be that the MWP was just a way of transporting cargo and personnel, not necessarily the Fossil itself.

We also don't know if there are more data blocks we haven't seen yet that might go to other places.

[quick grove]

I mean they teleported a rock lol

[solar nova]

We know there's at least one other cube, the tampered one.

[finite vine]

yea, they were apart of the hammerstein collection. they were just augmented by humans. probably by the project insight team.

[finite vine]

true. there could be more that take us to different destinations.

[quick grove]

Ah oky

[spice cloud]

What about the mayan log

[quick grove]

Thats got nothing to do with the NAM V

If the virus got out before they even drilled the meteor earth would've been dead because of said virus

So no the virus didn't go through dirt

If it did humanity would've been doomed a long time ago

[lilac island]

exactly

the guy in here saying its unlikely NAM could wipe out humankind cause pathogens on earth cant, doesnt understand the lore

[quick grove]

?

You talking about me or skaitwaker@lilac island

[lilac island]

rayalot

and if you think that, you're wrong too

cause number one theres never been an airborne virus with a 100% fatality rate on earth, that we know of

and number two and its not from earth

its a freaky alien pathogen with a lot of weird characteristics

[dim scroll]

The day we get a virus with an R0 equal to 17, the medical world will literally shit in their pants lmao

[subtle verge]

Technically, measles has an R0 between 12-18, but we have vaccinations that make it close to zero.

And I think Ebola is at 15 or somewhere around there.

[finite vine]

no, not necessarily. it’s not like the mayans were not traveling to england and all around the world like people do today. if NAM-V did affect the mayans, then it would most certainly be localized.

[finite vine]

is NAM-V airborne?? Rayalot has a point, there could be really localized groups of people that are isolated that do not get introduced to NAM-V.

[subtle verge]

I still wonder if the mentioned Flea Demons is actually NAM-V or not. I personally think it's not, but I haven't found any proper claim to my own thought.

[finite vine]

Well it’s possible that it it’s.

It certainly is implied.

[subtle verge]

And yes, when we did the theoretical calculations for NAM-V, we did leave out the folks who were incredibly isolated; uncontacted tribes, hermits, etc.

[subtle verge]

For sure. It has me wondering. I did some digging on the net and I couldn't find any reference to "flea demons" in Mayan text.

[finite vine]

it kinda seems like you are going all on one side or the other, there is always possibility for grey area when we are talking about stuff like this. There are plenty of reasons that NAM-V could fail to infect the entire world. For example, Ebola is a very dangerous and infectious virus, but it cannot spread very far because it kills its host too quickly.

[finite vine]

Yea i’m not doubting your guy’s calculations. I’m just saying that it is very possible that a good number of people are still alive.

Also saying that if the virus did affect the mayans, then it couldn’t of spread all around the world because they were very isolated.

[lilac island]

100%

until we get a solid look at the surface of earth, we have nothing else

if the entirety of the human species was converted into sleepers then literally nothing is alive on the surface

[subtle verge]

Airborne also just means travel through water droplets from the lungs, like a cough or sneeze. Doesn't mean it infects the ozone and rains down on humanity.

Just throwing it out there in case anyone doesn't know what airborne means in the context of virology.

Carry on.

[finite vine]

ok so what you said was just speculation. it sounded like you were 100% set on the entire surface being dead.

[lilac island]

no no

its known that humanity is pretty much extinct

whats not known is whether they're all sleepers, if they're just dead, or a little bit of both

[subtle verge]

Ehhhh we don't really know that, though. What we do know is that the WHO put out red alerts and stated that the virus is in all countries, and then we have the 2057 log that's the repeated message.

Human extinction is theory at best for the time being until we get more on that subject.

[finite vine]

no. just read what I said above again, we don’t really know if all of humanity is extinct or not.

I must of misunderstood you, because it seemed like you agreed with what I said because of that “100%” reply

[eternal talon]

"Demons" makes me think full on sleepers, more than anything else

Ironic enough, that would also give us an albeit small, but an actual description of the parasite visually

QUICKLY, TIME TO COMB THROUGH A1-D1 FOR FLEAS

[subtle verge]

I mean, sure, but you also have to remember that the Mayans also thought meteorites burning up in the atmosphere were gods riding flaming chariots of light, and that demons were tormentors of the dead, or servants of the sun if they didn't cast off enough human sacrifices.

But that's looking more into the spiritual aspect versus physical, I suppose.

[eternal talon]

Honestly, given how insane the ancient world is, an occam's razor approach is probably best here, and we are looking for something that at least to some extent resembles a flea in appearance

Since I don't know why they would call NAM-V, a plague, "Demons"

Though it's more rooted in catholicism, demons were tend to be shown being able to possess the bodies of the living. Could be just the way the Mayans were interpreting what was happening

[subtle verge]

It all plays into the spirituality, especially those as religious as the Mayans. You have to remember they didn't necessarily know what a disease was, they knew that it was an affliction, they knew it made you incredibly sick or killed you, and usually they would take that as a sign that the gods were not happy with them, or there was a demon inflicting this disease/curse upon them.

But yeah, I would agree with the Occam's Razor approach.

[eternal talon]

Yeah, I don't really know how to dig into this especially well, but honestly given how sleepers twist and manipulate the human form, it would just be simpler to think it of them describing what appears to them, as proper demons

Most historic depictions of gods and otherworldly beings assume them to be a somewhat human form, aswell

[subtle verge]

Which would make sense, honestly. I mean.. have you seen some of the depictions of their gods? Hell, even Ah Puch is creepy looking in that regard.

[eternal talon]

And sleepers aren't exactly.. normal looking. They are vile, twisted forms of the human shape, with many variations with different abilities, think of a mayan's first interaction with a shooter variant, one might think they are being cursed or smited upon directly from an otherworldly power

Depending on the time frame of this, it is likely long before the Spanish and gunpowder were of known to them, and simple ranged weaponry would be all they knew

Then to see a hybrid, machinegunning down your best warriors all around you,

It would not be surprising to see of them described as of being from the end times.

[lilac island]

I mean

they are from the end times lmao

by the time you see those the world is pretty much already fucked

cause nam v spreads so fast and kills so much faster

[south lake]

Seriously wrong time period.

Frostty's talking back when the Mayans were around.

[lilac island]

I know this

and they were then as they are now

"now"

[south lake]

I'm not saying the Sleepers are any different.

I'm saying that the Mayan's perception of the Sleepers was all but guaranteed to be vastly different than ours.

They didn't have the armor, the weapons, the tools that we do now.

They were almost certainly powerless to stop them in any serious capacity.

And given how ritualistic and "elevationist" Mayan religion was, anyone who did manage to kill a Sleeper likely would've been viewed as some religious chosen "demigod" or "champion", far above the average Mayan fighter's station, and something that (rightfully in that time period) would be viewed as almost impossible to achieve for the average man or woman.

Which would likely end up playing a large part in their downfall against the Sleepers.

Too many citizens viewing themselves as helpless, and preferring to flee rather than fight.

Whereas now, all one has to do is know how to use a gun, stay quiet, and they're more than capable of killing Sleepers. Melee's a bit of a different story since that relies on body strength, but regardless.

The Sleepers back then probably weren't as passive (until disturbed, at least) as they are now, either.

Mayan culture was also extremely rooted in ritual sacrifice, so it's also likely that in some cases they had groups of people worshipping the Sleepers and trying to appease them with sacrifices of animals, food, and people, rather than attempting to "expel" them by killing their physical form.

On that same note, the Sleepers back then also almost certainly weren't anywhere near as contained as they seem to be in GTFO.

As far as we know, they're only present inside Garganta, whereas in Mayan times they likely had free reign on the surface.

And given that light seems to disturb and aggravate them, any Sleepers caught outside during the day were likely fully awake and extremely violent towards anything and everything in its vicinity.

This is all guesswork, of course.

But given no Mayans exist in GTFO's day and age to give their testament of what happened and when..

Guesswork's all we're gonna have.

[eternal talon]

inb4 jungle battles like in predator

[small bobcat]

sleepers vs mayans jungle brawl

damn i would love to see that

[dim scroll]

Ebola is at 1.3

Considering its extremely high mortality rate (between 25% & 90%), if it had the same R0 as measles mankind would be gone lol

[solar nova]

The issue is that highly contagious pathogens that are also extremely lethal have trouble not running out of fuel. The more hosts you kill, the less capable you'll be of spreading. Again, this is just pathology. Disease alone, even a bioweapon, is very unlikely to achieve complete extinction of a target species.

We also have extremely clear precedent from the Mayan logs, it's been to the surface without exterminating the populations it's infected, so we should expect that NAM-V will be devastating but we'll have survivors.

We would need other information about what NAM-V is doing (does it infect animals, does it make sleepers without help, are there sleepers on the surface in general) to make judgements about whether or not it would be likely to wipe out humanity (and probably all life on earth), probably over a much longer timeframe. Even then, we'd have to assume humanity couldn't adapt to surviving in those conditions, we might have a bunch of Schaeffers running around the post-apocalypse.

There's also the mystery as to why NAM-V didn't remain on the surface after its excursions in the Mayan logs, it seems to have come and gone for no apparent reason, especially when it seems like it should be trying to infest areas and establish itself there.

[smoky sigil]

i have a random mini theory that will probably be disproven very soon

i noticed that in the visor of the game startup animation

i can see a floater

and assuming this redeploy process happens on the surface

that would hint at the fact that there are floaters on the surface

idk i might have miss seen it but it would be cool if it were true

[dim scroll]

Usually the game startup animation shows different visions of the characters

in R5 it was a regular eye iirc

in R4 it was the tank

[quick grove]

Its like a small spoiler to what horrors your about to face down in the complex

And it aint lore related i think

[harsh saffron]

that's me 🙂

on a more serious note, thats either modded or unused content, so you might wanna delete that ^^

[hot burrow]

It’s unused

[subtle verge]

Unused content! Woo!

[eternal talon]

how come?

[harsh saffron]

rules stuff

[eternal talon]

also, it's not a file, it's a youtube link musket asked me about

[harsh saffron]

yeah but I would assume a video playing a sound clip would be treated like the actual clip itself

[subtle verge]

Yeah; gotta' be super careful when dealing with content like that.

[eternal talon]

how are you supposed to know if you aren't allowed to ask about it?

[harsh saffron]

good question

[subtle verge]

Generally you get told to remove it, or a mod will remove it for you. Or, in this case, Duck was kind enough to head that warning.

[eternal talon]

that's REALLY kinda bs.

[subtle verge]

It's in respects to the developers, their wishes, and their vision of the game.

[eternal talon]

again, how are you supposed to know what is what if you get banned for asking?

it's rubbish

[harsh saffron]

you wont get banned ^^

[subtle verge]

Yeah, you won't get banned, especially if you don't know the origin of the content. They only ban if it's malicious.

[harsh saffron]

pretty sure there is a difference between asking about some strange sound file or posting a yt playlist with every unused content

yeah what punk said

[eternal talon]

regardless, getting a warning/punished for asking about something that information on is deliberately being withheld from you, is ridiculous.

[eternal talon]

wtf is that?

[harsh saffron]

?

[eternal talon]

playlists with all unused content. all of this leaves a very sour taste in my mouth

[harsh saffron]

I mean every game has unsused content

thats nothing special

[eternal talon]

you don't usually get a warning for digging through it

some games, like mmos and f2ps, i get that

this is a paid game with limited content intentionally

[subtle verge]

I'm not sure why you're upset about it? You're not getting punished for digging through it, you only get punished if you're consistent about it posting it after, I'd guess, a few warnings. It's okay to ask questions about content whether it's unused or not. You'll just get a heads up about it.

[eternal talon]

just the fact that you can't talk about unused content at all, even if it's lore/canonically irrelevant, it's still in the game.

[subtle verge]

Because they might have a use for it later on, or because it's considered irrelevant spam.

[south lake]

If the devs say don't dig through unused content files, don't. Simple as.

[pine agate]

Because technically finding unused content is considered data mining as well, and that cannot be discussed.

[subtle verge]

That is also true.

[south lake]

They own the IP, they make the rules. Or would you prefer they encrypt the game files in such a way that mods and such can't ever be used?

[eternal talon]

yes. you can't only half/half.

you either go full support, or full dedicated.

[south lake]

They absolutely reserve the right to say "mods are allowed, datamining is not"

[eternal talon]

going half/half leaves open these exact issues.

[eternal talon]

i didn't say datamining was okay, i was talking about discussing unused content, not finding it in the first place.

nothing is really going to stop someone datamining just about any game

[south lake]

Uh

About that

[pine agate]

Unused content is not meant to be found. Unless we're talking about those ideas that were revealed to us but never implemented in the game, like the Snatcher in the first gameplay reveal of the game back in 2019.

[south lake]

If datamining is forbidden, and they find out one or a group of people are datamining period, if they wanted to be mean about it, they have the right as the IP holders to sue.

[eternal talon]

usually in the first week of whenever a game comes out, so it's already going to be out there, either you are allowed to talk about it or not. it just seems a bit silly

[subtle verge]

Regardless of personal feelings, it's the company's/IP holder's decision to implement whatever ruling they so wish. On that note, breakfast time. Catch ya'll later!

[south lake]

In any case, we can debate policy all day, but it won't change it.

Rules say no discussing unused content, so that's that.

As for that game startup video

My interpretation of that was that since brain activity ceases inside the HSUs, the visions are basically meant to represent your brain being "switched on", similar to how some people report seeing long buried memories flash before their eyes when dying

[harsh saffron]

that sounds reasonable

[south lake]

Think along the lines of like

Old CRT monitors

How when you flipped the computer on the screen would get that momentary flash/line going down it

If that's more accurate than I'm thinking, I wonder if it's not meant as a rundown preview, but more as a subtle hint that this isn't the first time we've done this.

[harsh saffron]

I always thought it was one of the clues we have for the clone theory being correct, but then again just because they have seen those things before, of course doesnt mean they died instantly

but I like the "old memories" theory more now

[hot burrow]

We got new theory’s now

What did I miss?

[eternal talon]

No idea myself

[harsh saffron]

Just meant that €dons idea with the old memories sounds better to me than memories from other humans/clones, thats all ^^

[quick grove]

Im confused

[harsh saffron]

dont worry about it

[quick grove]

Did i do something wrong?

[harsh saffron]

not that I know of ^^

[quick grove]

Oh oky

What was ye talking about then about unused content being posted

[harsh saffron]

somebody posted something and asked about it, thats what my asnwer was referencing

[quick grove]

Ah okay

And we're not allowed to ask or talk about it right?

[harsh saffron]

I think its just posting it, but I'm not a mod so 🤷

[quick grove]

Ah okay

[tall anchor]

Yeah, basically.

I dunno how strict they are these days, but defo back in the day they used to be uber strict about datamined content

[solar nova]

Anyone got strong opinions about the notion tags and how they should be used?

I've mostly deferred to how Chase seemed to use them, but there are def logs where it's just "Kovac is mentioned at least once," and then there's the Hearsay tag that I'm not sure whether or not to include in logs that involve the use of the Hearsay system.

I probably need to add or rename tags as well, but that's something else I'll have to consider.

[subtle verge]

I think they're okay, honestly. My only strong opinion is that there are logs labeled incorrectly, or are missing tags. E.G. 'Incident Report' has the NAM-V tag, but that's the log about Jordy committing unlife to the drill and has no mention of NAM-V.

[solar nova]

I think that's something Chase added.

I might leave it, as I believe I agree with the notion that the NAM-V tag should be included on logs mentioning, at least to some extent, NAM-V's symptoms, but this is one of those cases where I'm uncertain of how the tags should function.

I suppose the real thing I'm asking is what the purpose of the tags (for logs) should be.

Currently, I think I'm leaning towards "if you look at a particular tag, you should see all of the logs that pertain to the story of that particular thing."

[subtle verge]

I think the purpose would be more for sorting purposes; say I think I might have a connection between KDS and Mambo Media, I'd want to look at all of the logs with the tags KDS and Mambo/News or something.

[solar nova]

iow, the KDS logs should give a complete picture of KDS, no matter how minor the pieces.

[subtle verge]

But I'm not sure how feasible that would be, as I don't know how notion works.

Or how strenuous of a workload that would be on you.

[solar nova]

Tbf, this might be a consequence of each tag coming with "the whole picture"

[subtle verge]

That is 100% fair. Hmm.

[solar nova]

And it's probably a low load for me regardless.

At least for any vision of how the tags ought to function, it would probably just take me looking over each tag to get an idea of the identity for each tag (or at least something pragmatic connecting everything), and then I'd just need to adjust tag usage accordingly.

[solar nova]

Something nice about the tags, that at least I have in mind, is the board view, which essentially gives you a version of the timeline page for each tag.

So something I definitely want is for those timelines to be valuable.

[harsh saffron]

that sounds pretty neat

[solar nova]

Tbh the database itself is by far the best way to view the logs, it's just a tad harder to use and presents a lot more information up-front that can be harder to understand than just the timeline.

[subtle verge]

I much prefer the database to the timeline. Edit: Because I can get the full picture versus the tid bits.

[quick grove]

Hmm

[stray crypt]

this question may seem dumber than dirt to ask here of all places but i think it may be important

what do the shooters fire? what are those projectiles they "spit" at you and why do they hurt like a truck going 80?

[dim scroll]

no idea

they deal more damage than a regular charger punch for some reason

😳

[analog frigate]

no questions are stupid here

currently we think it's possibly some kind of spores or something else

but nothing conclusive

[stray crypt]

huh, alright

thanks

[lavish widget]

is there any info about what information do we download at alpha one on d1?

[quick grove]

You go and download the genome data

Thats what you do

@lavish widget

[lavish widget]

what's genome?

[quick grove]

I don't know what the Genome data is for all i know is the warden wants you to download it

Idk if anyone really knows what its used for tbh

[lavish widget]

oh ok

[quick grove]

Well only know in R6 extended or in R7

[solar nova]

Genetic make-up, assuming that's a literal question.

We download the Pathogen Genome Database, so presumably we have the genetic make-up of diseases stored on that database (possibly NAM-V).

[dim scroll]

Could be the genome of something else as well

What's weird is why the genome database was there

rather than in a secured location in the complex

[quick grove]

Good question

[tall anchor]

maybe they can’t move the genetic material?

[finite vine]

Its a database, so I think it is stored on like a hard drive or some kind of digital device.

There could of been multiple copies of the database, and the copy that was on planet alpha could of been the easiest one to access for the warden.
Or that was the only copy of the database and it was stored on planet alpha because that's where they were mainly researching whatever's stored on the genome database.

[quick grove]

That could be the case

But we'll never know lol

Or we will but just not now

[finite vine]

yea of course. all speculation right now.

[south lake]

I mean generally, there tends to be at least one backup of research data in any serious operation

Could be that going to the research site was the fastest way to get the data, as opposed to pulling it off the Complex databanks that may either be inoperable or too far down to safely reach

[quick grove]

Doesn't seem like it in the complex lol

[south lake]

As far as we know. We haven't explored the whole complex yet.

And as far as I'm aware there's several sections that WRDN has no access to, either because power is down or the floors are too infested to breach (or both)

And if any backup data is off-site, well

That's entirely out of the question, because the WRDN almost certainly can't control anything we do if we were to leave Garganta.

Whereas inside Garganta, the WRDN is our way in and our only way out

So our only choice if we don't want to be stuck down there (assuming we survive) is to obey the WRDN

[unborn steppe]

There's also the discussion of if they should even try to escape. I'm pretty sure the outside world is dead since many signs point to the Warden being desperate and having no outside help. The fact they're still using prisoners instead of the military is most obvious but also the fact that if they had the proper resources the 4 main characters would definitely be "reset" by now.

[agile plinth]

it is mostly dead due to NAM-V

also the only military they can use are KSOs

they aren't exactly prisoners though

technically they are but they are (as far as we know) all Legion

[quick grove]

@agile plinth oh how ive missed you

[cobalt knot]

yo what the hell is this game?

who is the warden

gimme theshort version

we are prisoners yeah? trying to cut years off our sentence or something

[quick grove]

The warden is a DECISION AI also known as a DI

99.98% of humanity is dead

And we aren't trying to cut years off because there isn't no sentences

We are trapped down in the complex as far as i know and we are the puppets of the warden

@cobalt knot there ya go

[cobalt knot]

Loveyou thanks

[dim scroll]

pinned messages for a summary

[cobalt knot]

oh true

[quick grove]

That works as well

[cobalt knot]

bruh i have to download a sketchy ass file?

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Fuck it

[quick grove]

It ain't sketchy lol

[cobalt knot]

I trust you all

[agile plinth]

I've just been busy

still around to answer questions to anyone who wants to know

[agile plinth]

no need

you can open the google doc link

[quick grove]

Ah ye

[lilac island]

Does any one know, what exactly are you defeating in D1 and what impact it has on current events?

[analog frigate]

we call it the "kraken"

we don't know much about it

it's the same species as the floaters or in some way related

iirc it was the thing that destroyed Alpha 1

[hot burrow]

It gave alpha 1 a vibe check

Alpha 1 failed it

[celest pagoda]

NAM-V gave the human race a vibe check, too

[hot burrow]

Frfr

[lilac island]

Does any one looked at thos game from like norse mythology perspective? I know basics only, and know that there are some legends about humans traveling to Helheim to retrieve knowledge from the dead.

[analog frigate]

i know it somewhat

there aren't really many connections

i guess you can make some but that's with pretty much all mythologies and religions

[solar nova]

It's possible that the database was either a result of research on-site or, potentially a better explanation, being used for research there. It'd be like bringing a specific piece of equipment with you, if the latter is the case. It's possible they expanded the database while there, as well, it's unclear.

[dim scroll]

Kinda weird they didn't make any backup tho

If i were to be teleported into another place, i'd definitely backup sensitive data from time to time

[solar nova]

Might be a security issue more than anything, R1 is genuinely nothing but security-related objectives (collect HSU, PIDs, PDECs, restore power, and shutdown a reactor), the reactor start-up is the closest to a non-security objective if you consider it power collection.

There's so much fetching to do with security in general.

[dim scroll]

It could be that the genome was placed here after the attack

[solar nova]

Might just be disrepair, or they were unable to back it up for some reason.

Something to wonder is how the WRDN caught wind of this.

Must have been something related to data collection, two HDD objectives and then the plant sample objective come to mind.

Terminal datacore objective, too.

Plant samples might actually imply the WRDN was already aware of Destination Alpha by then.

[dim scroll]

I don't get the plant samples tbh

Except if they come from red alpha ?

[solar nova]

They're definitely something related to Project Insight research.

[solar nova]

This, or they were sent through and later retrieved.

[dim scroll]

There could be a lot of reason tho

Like checking how plants survive on red alpha

[solar nova]

The WRDN wanted them, though.

There was something about them it needed.

I imagine the idea is similar to HDDs, it must have wanted the research data for some reason.

I wonder if Destination Alpha was some foreknowledge that it had, or if it discovered it by chance.

W8, I'm stupid, it knew about it because it sent KSOs there.

[carmine tendon]

for now, it is a high possibility that it is related to project insight, but i wont be sure of my word unless we know something in R7.

[solar nova]

Tbf it's all but confirmed that the research environments were run by Insight, but I suppose it could have been something Kovac set up.

[carmine tendon]

who knows.

i guess we just had to wait and see.

[finite vine]

Technically biocom sent KSO's there, not the warden.

[solar nova]

Sure, but if the WRDN inherits BIOCOM and is hooked into the same infrastructure as BIOCOM it almost certainly has all of the same information to work with.

[finite vine]

That’s true, however, depending on the state of the complex, some of the info could be lost.

Also, we know that a human has to implement an objective stack for Biocom to follow. The Warden is different than Biocom because of the objective stack, the people implementing the objective stacks (potentially, because we don’t know who is behind the warden), and the prisoners it uses. So in reality, there are some important differences between the Warden and Biocom.

[solar nova]

Not necessarily, in-fact we know that BIOCOM is specifically able to modify the objective stack.

They obviously work differently, but that doesn't entail whatsoever that we should expect them to be completely unalike.

There are certain things that are definitely going to be shared between them, and storing pertinent information is a big one for "should probably be maintained."

[finite vine]

Well I'm not really saying that they are completely unalike, I'm saying that the circumstances are obviously different, so the purposes of Biocom are not the same as the purposes of Warden.

I think Biocom and Warden have enough differences to address them by separate names.

[solar nova]

The WRDN is a specific BIOCOM.

It probably knows what BIOCOM knew, and might have even already been active by the time EF-01 was sent out.

[finite vine]

If it was active by the time EF-01 was sent out, then I understand, however, we don't really know the answer to that. But they are not really the same thing.

[solar nova]

This amount of skepticism seems unreasonable.

[finite vine]

Well it is hard to tell if the warden was active by the time EF-01 rolled out

[solar nova]

Just by the nature of inheritance, we should probably error on the side of the WRDN carrying over BIOCOM's functionality unless we know otherwise.

Maintaining functionality is much more probable than losing or changing functionality given we have nothing to go off of.

[finite vine]

I don't see it that way. If someone wanted the same functionality they would of just used biocom. No need to change the code/ inject a new package if you want the same result as before.

This could be false though if someone needed to implement the warden in order to get access to biocom, but we dont know that. Both reasons are equally unknown.

[solar nova]

Well, no. If someone wanted the same functionality, inheritance is exactly what you would use. That's the whole point of inheritance.

[finite vine]

Also, i'm not saying the functionality is necessarily different. Calling Biocom Warden can be confusing.

They are both referenced at different times through out the story. Warden was referenced much further into the future than Biocom, hence Biocom was used earlier than Warden.

They are also used for different things, and potentially, by different people. They could also have different code, an entire package was implemented after all, which could contain anything.

Also, Most of the problems the Warden solves are different in magnitude and circumstance than the problems that Biocom solves.

[finite vine]

If I wanted the same functionality of biocom, I would of used biocom.

[solar nova]

I think there's just going to be a disconnect here, and I think we've had a similar conversation.

You do not seem to understand what inheritance implies about a class.

[finite vine]

They are used for different things, from different time periods, therefore they should be referenced as different entities. They literally have separate names. WRDN contains Biocom, Biocom does not contain WRDN. WRDN is a modification of Biocom. The word "inherited" is not really enough to go off of.
Where are you getting this "inheritance" from?

[solar nova]

Inheritance is invoked in the WRDN log among the R6 teaser logs. It's either in the preamble or the translated brainfuck.

Inheritance is a pretty fundamental concept in object oriented programming, and is a relationship between classes. The child class "inherits" from the parent class. A parent class will have its own functions, data fields, etc., and the child class has its own unique functions, data fields, etc., and can also override functions from the parent class.

[solar nova]

We can distinguish between the WRDN and BIOCOM, but that doesn't change that the WRDN is BIOCOM ("is an" is more accurate to most classes). That's just what inheritance entails.

From an engineering perspective, there can indeed be any number of new, adjusted, or disabled functions associated with the WRDN, but if the WRDN inherits BIOCOM that implies that parts of BIOCOM are either necessary or practical for the WRDN to function, so we should probably bias our beliefs towards BIOCOM's functions unless we have external reason to say "oh, this appears to be working differently than normal."

[finite vine]

Lets say, for example, im programming in Java, an object oriented language.

I have a sort class that takes in a list of peoples names, and ages, and it sorts the list from least age to greatest age.

I then create a new class that inherits the sort class. This new class gives the name of the oldest person. The sort class is inherited in order for the second class to function.

Just because the second class inherits the sort class, does not mean that they are the same thing. They both have different functionalities and code. They solve different problems.

[solar nova]

This doesn't change that sort2 is a sort1.

[finite vine]

It does though? They both have different functionalities and code. They solve different problems

[solar nova]

Sort2 is a sort1, by definition.

[finite vine]

If I describe Sort2 to someone, and then I describe sort1 to someone, they will say that they are different because they literally are. From a coding perspective, an engineering perspective, and a problem solving perspective.

[solar nova]

Yeah, because most people don't have an abstract understanding of inheritance.

Gee wizz

Sort2 is not sort1 and sort2 is a sort1 are also not contradictory.

These are completely compatible.

[lilac island]

sort1 is a part of sort2

[solar nova]

A square is a rectangle, but squares and rectangles are not identical categories.

[finite vine]

a part of sort 2 is sort 1? is that what ur saying.

[solar nova]

Yes.

The typical analogy is something like "mugs inherit from cups." A mug is a cup, but they're not identical, a mug is more specific than just cups in general.

[finite vine]

Ok. I understand. However, that is just too abstract to use and will just confuse people. Its honestly better to describe them by functionality and time period.

[solar nova]

I'm not super down to intentionally misrepresent what's happening to dumb it down.

[finite vine]

well they have the same functionality.

[finite vine]

I mean you can keep calling Biocom Warden, I'm just saying that I see them as two separate things because they are different in most aspects.

[solar nova]

They have some shared functionality, but we might argue mugs are better at, or specialized for, retaining heat and such.

My problem is more-so with how you want to reason about what the WRDN does.

[finite vine]

Yea we don't really know what WRDN does, that's exactly why we shouldn't call it Biocom, because we know what Biocom does.

[solar nova]

From my perspective, the WRDN sharing BIOCOM's characteristics when we have a vacuum on information is significantly more likely than not.

Same for a mug. Even if I didn't know what a mug is, as long as I know it's a cup, it's probably safer to assume it's not some kind of frankenstein's monster and that most of the things I expect of cups are probably true of mugs. Most of the things true of BIOCOM are probably true of the WRDN.

[finite vine]

Besides the fact that mugs have better heat retention and that they are used more in cold environments. The cup had to be modified for its environment to serve a modified purpose. To store liquid, but keep it warmer. The mug is WRDN in this analogy. The mug was named different because it has a slightly different purpose, and features.

[solar nova]

I feel like you're missing the point.

Yes, it's modified, but it's not so radically different as if I compared a mug to a table or a cat.

The WRDN is probably not something so radically different from BIOCOM that we couldn't make assumptions about its functions and data fields and be right much more often than not.

It's not going to turn into Tetris or Google Chrome.

[finite vine]

Yea. I get what ur saying. It does not really have to be radically different to have a separate name though.

I mainly like to separate Biocom from WRDN because of the time periods they are used in.

[solar nova]

From my perspective, the name is the least important part of this, and I was originally complaining entirely about your claim that the WRDN would in any way be unlikely to inherit BIOCOM's knowledge of Destination Alpha.

I have no idea what the name has to do with that.

[finite vine]

I wasn't trying to imply that. I totally believe that the WRDN inherited all the info from Biocom.

[solar nova]

Well, something was lost in translation then.

[finite vine]

Yea, its all good

I was mainly talking about functionality and the problems that they are both trying to solve. Because in my eyes, saying that the Warden is the same thing as Biocom means that they solve the same problems and were created for the same reason, which they were not.

I get what ur saying though.

[tall anchor]

happens to every computer system ever, i wouldn’t be suprised ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[swift oasis]

wait what ? how

do we know how many humans are left ? is there any organisation still fonctional ? or most likely legion's guys are the last human being, activated and deactivated by the warden

[analog frigate]

taking in what dauda said

"we all have it now"

[analog frigate]

seeing the r-naught of NAM-V plus a hypothetical scenario, simulations and calculations on the number alive goes to around 25k

[swift oasis]

didnt he mean we all have it now, "we" -> the guys he was with, his expedition ?

[analog frigate]

organisations, we don't know since we haven't actually ever contacted anyone on the surface present time

[analog frigate]

he said it before our current events

[swift oasis]

crap

[analog frigate]

his log before he shut himself in an HSU

and yeah, a decent part of people alive are just the KSOs

[swift oasis]

basically mankind has no hope anymore

[analog frigate]

about none

but we don't know the future plans of 10c

[swift oasis]

10c ?

[analog frigate]

10 Chambers

[swift oasis]

it feels like they stopped working on it (except the skins), I really like the lore of this game, I hope they will continue

[analog frigate]

oh they are far from stopping work on the game

we still are waiting for the extension after all

[harsh saffron]

they said that they have about 2-3 years worth of lore at least that is already written rn (and of course you can write more lore obviously)

[quick grove]

Yes lots of stuff to go through

[subtle verge]

I have an insatiable appetite for lore

Gimme more, gimme more.

[quick grove]

Lol yes

[subtle verge]

So I was scrolling through social media and I found this interesting little article. I know we've talked about quantum entanglement often here enough so I thought you all might be interested, too: https://www.iflscience.com/physics/tardigrade-might-be-first-animal-to-be-quantum-entangled-and-live/?fbclid=IwAR3Ibgdx_9oUGuJwBAlNAI-yYUSEMJ9ochG5lBo_nCsMbAdg80iBJF5BZoM

Tardigrades, man.. true behemoths of nature.

[quick grove]

Ay i think lostyfrosty can understand this better than i can

[sonic citrus]

thats pretty neat

[real pewter]

unrelated but markiplier do read logs in GTFO
https://youtu.be/dx8GvJAXmC0?t=1476

so keep up the good work guys

[dull crest]

Are we comparing lore with cups and mugs?

[sonic citrus]

I think someone was calling the warden a mug

which is a little rude

[real pewter]

yes

[marsh spruce]

I didnt realize Mark actually cared about GTFO lore!

[subtle verge]

If I could compare GTFO lore to a cup and/or mug, I would say that it's very much like one of those old WWII tin mugs you'd find at an old battleground or barracks site, buried deep in the mud and dirt, but you find a little edge sticking out of the ground and so you carefully dig around it to reveal it's glory and history.

[dull crest]

And some mad scribblings on the bottom

[ruby lake]

The game is called GTFO and it doesn't stand for "Get The Fuck Out" but rather the feeling you have that you want to complete The Warden's objective and GTFO.

[wild plank]

Deepest lore:
GTFO stands for || Go To Fart Orgies||

[finite vine]

lol yea we were using it as an analogy

[dull crest]

Busted!

[small bobcat]

exposed

[full oar]

i think r4 was called "contact" because we came into "contact" with Schaefer

[quick grove]

You are right

[harsh saffron]

actually contact refers to the various contacts all the poor enemies had to make with prisoners who equipped the burst cannon

[full oar]

lol

[dim scroll]

Also the physical contacts you have with tanks & big chargers

😳

[small bobcat]

And the countless licking you get from all those sleepers

[dim scroll]

wow

Guess some people really struggle to read channel names

😳

[unreal island]

I'm very new to GTFO, I just completed B1 early today and i was left with a few questions. So my team and i ended up being teleported by some kind of device into what i can only describe as a rocky desert world. After fighting some terrifying flying creatures off, we extracted, and i am extremely confused. Was that some sort of other dimension/planet or was that just the surface?

[hot burrow]

The running theory is the place the team is teleported to is mars

[unreal island]

Mars?

I can kinda see that

[lilac island]

I read from other people that it was another dimension

But that it was definitely not earth

[quick grove]

Lmao not mars lol

We're teleported to a different planet with oxygen

If that was mars the characters would have been dead

[subtle verge]

No, we're not sent to Mars; that's never been near a running theory despite what you read from Squid. There is no official name for the place we go to, however the community dubs it a few things: Red Alpha (this is actually a name of a failed Mars mission within the logs), Destination Alpha, "teleporty-place," etc. To put it bluntly: we don't know where we're transported to nor do we have an official name.

There are many theories as to what it really is whether it's another celestial body in a distant solar system, whether it's time travel (unlikely but possible), dimension jumping, etc.

[subtle verge]

I don't think there's ever been an agreement that Mars is/was a "running theory." Please don't spread misinformation to newcomers. 🙂

[pale topaz]

spaghetti monster planet

[eternal talon]

where on god's green earth did you get that from?

RED ALPHA was a mars mission, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the other world the virus/parasite/sleepers originate from.

[finite vine]

True. Also, I don’t even think we know if sleepers or NAM-V originated from Destination Alpha.

[eternal talon]

in regards to sleepers, that depends on what you classify them as. the sleepers in the complex originated on earth from the original infected miners. in regards to nam-v, both the virus and the parasite were uncovered in the meteor that came from destination alpha. so while not confirmed in plain writing, it is extremely likely.

IMO there HAS to be a log in the future, or even a series of logs that detail some survivors during the initial outbreak of the parasite in Garganta, surviving and trying to escape. that would be sooo cool.

[finite vine]

How do we know that the meteor same from destination alpha? Yes, it’s likely that it came from destination alpha, but it’s not confirmed and the devs are known for throwing curveballs at us regarding lore.

[eternal talon]

because it has the crystals in it.

[finite vine]

We have never seen the crystals in the complex.

[eternal talon]

i didn't say the complex.

the crystal inside the WMP is unique to destination alpha.

[finite vine]

sorry i meant the meteor

[eternal talon]

aswell, most hammerstein artifacts.

we do not see the inside of the meteor at all, so that is kind of mute.

[finite vine]

yea it does look like the crystals from destination alpha.

[eternal talon]

this isn't a scale of "it could be, it couldn't be, there isn't enough evidence", this is a matter of occam's razor and implying that it not being, is some other unknown crystal that just happens to look identical to this other one. which is wholly unrealistic.

i would hope i needn't say, just because something isn't written explicitly doesn't make it true.

i belive i had a conversation about this in here some weeks ago that i made an excellent analogy in.

"just because you cannot disprove that the universe was created last Thursday doesn't mean that it is true".

[finite vine]

Yea that’s what I meant, just wrote it wrong. We haven’t seen the inside of the meteor so we don’t even know if there are the destination alpha crystals in the meteor at all. Also is it known if the black crystals on destination alpha are made of cretasium 77a?

[eternal talon]

well, we do not know basically anything on cretasium 77a at all to my knowledge.

also if anything we will see in the meteor or "inner" as it is described in the logs, it is mostly comprised of obsidian like chambers, similar to lava tubes, but not such.

incredible density of infected organisms and potential allen artifacts a-plenty would be sure to be abound.

[austere jungle]

zamn we got a philosophy phd candidate here

[finite vine]

if that’s true, then the obsidian like material is probably cretasium because most of the meteor is made of it. How do we know an obsidian like material will be within the meteor? Was that described in the deep scan log?

[eternal talon]

we do not know in writing that the Hammerstein artifacts were created by an ancient alien species, but much alike the previous, it is probable that we could get more curveballs in the likeness of new creatures and enemies, rather than introducing a new material that could be confused with another already unexplained material.

[eternal talon]

i don't remember the exact log. give me a moment to locate it.

[quick grove]

@eternal talon oh lostty i've missed you so much on the lore channel

[eternal talon]

or if you have it @quick grove, that would be greatly appreciated.

[quick grove]

Have?

[eternal talon]

i've just been off for about a week playing Satisfactory.

[quick grove]

What do i have?

[finite vine]

it seems like it is aliens, because from the redacted hammerstein logs, hammerstein himself kinda implies that there is evidence of aliens.

[quick grove]

Hence we call them ALLENS

[eternal talon]

the log describing lava tubes. i am currently looking for it on the timeline at the moment.

[small bobcat]

Or they could pull a history channel

[finite vine]

it has deep scan in its name iirc.

[quick grove]

I don't have it try looking on the erm lore data base that has all logs i think it has a tag for it as well

[small bobcat]

The guy doesnt actually know what the fuck it is, so he tossed everything into aliens territory

[quick grove]

Well i mean as far as we all know the floaters are aliens if im correct

[eternal talon]

"Additional: Several large, clear tubes can be seen on the true color gamma
print, starting at the approximate center point of the mass. They do not
appear to be lava tubes; the composition materials are too dense to be
affected by any heat generated by volcanic activity. Further analysis is
needed once we excavate. GSP data for the largest of these tubes has been
sent to operations."

[finite vine]

well I mean he could of thought it was aliens due to complicated devices and artificially made structures within the meteor.

[small bobcat]

true, everything about...well, everything, seems hardly terrestrial in origin

Sleepers, floaters, virus, crystals

[eternal talon]

we did not make the WMP or the artifacts we collect either.

those, and the data cubes are also parts of the collection.

[finite vine]

this says that the structures are most likely not lava tubes. so they could be artificially made tunnels/ corridors.

[quick grove]

Well the we made the WMP device just not the crystal in it lol

[eternal talon]

precisely.

[finite vine]

also there is no black obsidian description, so it could possibly look like anything.

I only say that because we know that cretasium makes up most of the meteor, and if cretasium is black and obsidian like, then it might be the stuff we see on destination alpha.

[eternal talon]

i do not believe so, but if you have a contradictory log, please share it with me. AFIK the WMP and the data cubes are entirely of allen origin.

[eternal talon]

obsidian is the usual construction material of lava tubes.

[quick grove]

Project insight is the MWP you that right

And the artifacts

[finite vine]

yea but the structure are probably not lava tubes.

[eternal talon]

i entirely agree. they are not. they are similar to.

[quick grove]

What i mean by us creating the MWP i mean by the people who built the big teleporting machine and the device the crystal sits in thats what i meant by

[eternal talon]

we built a machine that can harness it's ability, yes, but the device itself we did not create.

[finite vine]

the MWP appears to be mostly constructed by the project insight team. it’s got the project insight logo written on it.

[quick grove]

What do you mean by device

Im confused now

[eternal talon]

where logo

[eternal talon]

the wmp

[finite vine]

that’s a very limited picture

[quick grove]

I mean i haven't kept up on new lore and stuff because i've been working on my own lore for something different

[finite vine]

there is a logo on the MWP for sure.

[eternal talon]

fine, i'll run a1 again. give me a moment.

[quick grove]

The thing the crystal sits in we made that that's human technology not alien

[finite vine]

just load into B1

[quick grove]

Ye the logo is project insight

[finite vine]

yea it appears to be that way.

[quick grove]

Project insight was Making the giant machines that teleports us and the tube looking thing that houses the crystal

[finite vine]

yea project insight made the jump gates also. the data cubes look to be augmented as well.

[eternal talon]

this entirely falls in the face of the research the community here helped me gather for the pdf

"What is the WMP? What is the Hammerstein Collection? The Wave Matter Projector and other artifacts recovered from the meteor would later be dubbed the "Hammerstein Collection" by Project Insight and brought under study.
The WMP appears to have a Black Crystal from "Destination Alpha" as a part of the inner mechanism of the device. The Hammerstein Collection artifacts are not made by human hands, and their origin is still unknown as of Rundown Six."

there are ZERO logos on this thing

pics incoming

[quick grove]

So the big ass teleport device isn't human?

[eternal talon]

oh no, i see one now. on the handle

but not the main thing itself

perhaps the chassis to mount it was insight made

[finite vine]

it is true that the Hammerstein artifacts are not made by humans. They could be augmented by them though. Ex. casings/ containers for the artifacts.

[quick grove]

Im confused

[finite vine]

yes that’s what i’m saying. i’m not denying that the Hammerstein artifacts are alien made. Just saying that insight found the artifacts and augmented them to harness their power.

[eternal talon]

the shell is very clearly plugging into some sort of power core.

insight didn't make it, only a shell for it, it would appear.

[finite vine]

yes.

[quick grove]

Thats what im talking about 😐

[eternal talon]

i'd still say at least 85% of it would still be allen in origin

there are more spokes with an unknown light emanating from the bottom of it aswell.

[finite vine]

well if the crystal was the artifact, and the rest was man made, then it’s more like 20%

[eternal talon]

i doubt the crystal we see through the viewport is the entire thing.

coils wrap around a decent portion of the chassis

that entire middle section appears to be indented as a proper housing.

also, it can not be just the crystal.

i can see active data cubes, plugged into the thing from above

[finite vine]

yea there are places for 4 of them.

[eternal talon]

*above where the crystal sits

[eternal talon]

no, 8. not 4.

there are 4 on each side.

[finite vine]

I see 2 on each side.

[eternal talon]

other side also has them

[finite vine]

Yea that’s two. Each data cube has two little pieces of curved metal on it.

[eternal talon]

as you can see here, they are not connected, and are clearly separate cubes.

inside view also has the same allen glyphs imprinted upon it.

including the underside of the outside cubes.

that's 8.

[finite vine]

that’s one data cube.

[quick grove]

Man that shit dont even lool like a "cube" to me

[eternal talon]

yes but that clearly wouldn't fit in the thing if we are talking basic models here.

[finite vine]

well the cube is the thing in the middle. the stuff on the outside appears to be man made just like the MWP. probably just a chassis used to integrate it with the MWP.

[finite vine]

I mean i think it would.

[quick grove]

Yeah true writing that down

[finite vine]

they are quite small.

[quick grove]

They look more like a rectangle

[finite vine]

lol true.

all of this is making me think where this stuff was found. we’re the data cubes and the MWP found in its own alien device/ machine or were they found just scattered in the meteor?

also in one of stokes audio logs she said that she thought the MWP might of been used as a propulsion device.

maybe this stuff was found in an alien spaceship?

[eternal talon]

what is this?

it's like some camera or something mounted on the ceiling, behind you when you drop down.

[finite vine]

looks like a light.

it’s hard to tell though.

[eternal talon]

without zoom

[eternal talon]

i doubt it. the meteor itself would be the ship, not something isolated inside it.

call it human centric thinking, but when we sent a lander to the moon, we didn't do it in a giant rock. though to be fair, assuming there to be a metal clad spaceship is also human centric in the first place.

is there a meteorologist in the discord? we could learn a whole lot about destination alpha's atmosphere from the clouds and storms alone.

Just the clouds alone could tell us the pressure of the planet, the water content, and so much more

[solar nova]

Some of these are probably just dust, but we know there's water from C1.

[harsh saffron]

That's probably why they are called "data blocks" in the logs instead of cubes ^^

[quick grove]

Oh okay

[harsh saffron]

no idea why there are 2 names

[quick grove]

Yeah no

[solar nova]

Yet another victim of the misnomer.

[unreal island]

Okay, thank you for the clarification. I'm under the impression this place has something to do with the origin of the Sleepers, do you think that might be at all true?

[unreal island]

Thank you I'll give that a read

[subtle verge]

It's possible, however we aren't quite sure. There are theories around that talk about the origin of the sleepers, but we don't really know. The theory I'm most familiar with is: "The Egg" (the meteor that wiped the dinosaurs) was transported to our solar system via the crystals, crashed on earth, and they have been in the Chicxulub crater since before mankind," but it's high speculation. The floaters/Kraken however, we believe originate from the place we're teleported to.

[swift oasis]

do you thing the devs and people behind 10 chambers would pay attention to those details ?

[celest pagoda]

The audio log from there mentions something possibly being in the atmosphere they were unaware of, so I'd assume so

[quick grove]

Its 10 chambers lol

[swift oasis]

yea, updated at the same time

[swift oasis]

oh yea that audio log, mmmmh maybe indeed

[celest pagoda]

Also this ^

[quick grove]

Erm yeah i think they do lol

[swift oasis]

lol

[quick grove]

I mean you never know

[subtle verge]

10C has been very good with little details thus far. I'd imagine that a major plot point would be given the same love.

[swift oasis]

Well I hope so, if they want us to base theories on meteorological stuff only based on how it looks, that's as crazy as fun

[swift oasis]

ive read all the lore only since R6, do you have some examples about those "small details" who led to true theories ?

[eternal talon]

We had a virologist of some sort in here at some point near the start of r6 that calculated the lethality and CDC rating of NAM-V

[swift oasis]

awesome 😂

[eternal talon]

Some 99.8 or so % of humanity is dead by the point in time the game takes place. I do not remember the exact number.

[subtle verge]

No, it was Daraxus and I. He's a minor and I'm just good at hazmat. Lmao.

[eternal talon]

This doesn't seem like "for fun" calculations from an uneducated source. This seems very professional.

[swift oasis]

I would love to have random events with Schaeffer's mimic, like you're making your way through the level you /query stuff and you leave the room then you hear someone typing on the terminal and ping stuff while you and your mates are looking each other having no clue wtf is happening, those kind of events

[subtle verge]

Give me a few to wake up/boot the PC. I'll sling a few your way with some of the theories I've written and a few the community has written.

The two I can think of immediately: Warden's subtle overtake of BIOCOM and how it was able to control the KSOs, and then there is the Gustavo theory to prevent corporate espionage. I'm sure there are plenty more but I can't immediately think of them at the moment.

[eternal talon]

Ancient allens

[swift oasis]

cool ^^

[subtle verge]

That's not to say we didn't do our work or we went in with blind/wild guesses.

He and I did a lot of testing and reading to fully understand the concepts behind the infection and lethality rates, compared NAM-V to other diseases, did research on the human population in 2050, etc.

There was a lot that went in to it, with so many different variables.

[analog frigate]

yeah it was a bit difficult but at least in the end we get proper numbers

[eternal talon]

I have a question

What kind of sun do you see in the sky of destination alpha?

[dim scroll]

what kind of star you mean ?

[subtle verge]

That's a very difficult question to answer, I think.

[analog frigate]

looking at the ambient light and also consider the type of star is needed, probably a K

[eternal talon]

It is white, or yellow, correct?

[analog frigate]

both

[dim scroll]

On D1 you see a natural satellite i think

similar to a moon

[analog frigate]

K stars are like our sun

[eternal talon]

If we know the type of star, we can assume the size. If we can guess the size, we can measure the distance

[analog frigate]

yes

[analog frigate]

we can't really do that

[eternal talon]

If we can measure the distance, we know if it is in the goldilocks zone or not.

[dim scroll]

It's difficult to figure out the type

However you can consider the situation of the prisoners on red alpha

they aren't freezing nor do they burn

[analog frigate]

there is a lot of variance in star size, brightness, its appearance from a planet orbiting it, even within the same star class

[dim scroll]

There's air supposedly so you'd assume an atmosphere as well

[subtle verge]

That's not how that works unfortunately. There are many star systems out there where there are smaller stars than the sun but its closest planet is something larger than Jupiter.

[eternal talon]

Not precise no, but in a range would be good enough for a simple calculation

[analog frigate]

hypothetically we could make assumptions but they won't be based on any facts so

[analog frigate]

well i suppose

[dim scroll]

from that i think you can compare with the heat flux the earth receives from the sun along with the star's size in game to determine the distance

[eternal talon]

Star color changes on size and content.

[dim scroll]

Actually i don't even think we see the star in game ?

We only see the moon

[analog frigate]

we do

[eternal talon]

We see the sun

[analog frigate]

B1

[eternal talon]

In a1 and b1

[dim scroll]

😳

[subtle verge]

Oh I misread, my bad.

[eternal talon]

WE CAN FIGURE THIS OUT

If it's in the goldilocks zone, geat.

[analog frigate]

well we never see the sun, only the star that the planet is orbiting

[eternal talon]

If not... even more fucky wucky shit imbound

[eternal talon]

Yes. ITS sun.

[dim scroll]

Any pic of the star's size ?

its star*

😳

[eternal talon]

I did not mean ours, I apologize

[analog frigate]

well sun, or the real name of it, sol, is the main sequence star in our system

there is only 1 sun

and a bunch more stars

[eternal talon]

Point being, if we can identify a range for its brightness and size in lumens based on relative distance and color,

That can tell us the potential heat/cold ratio of the atmosphere

[dim scroll]

With color and heat flux you can somehow guess the distance

[eternal talon]

Which will either go along with, or make the clouds there make no sense

[analog frigate]

also @eternal talon i can at least tell you that the planet is located around 0.1au to 0.4au, or 0.3au to 1.3au

au being astronomical unit

[dim scroll]

Heat flux that can be determined thanks to how our chars react on red alpha (no extreme reaction compared to earth)

[analog frigate]

1au = 500ls btw

[analog frigate]

well that only requires for us to be within the habitable zone of the star

[dim scroll]

habitable zone of the star ?

[analog frigate]

also it lets us know that the planet has a proper magnetic field

[dim scroll]

star can be inhabited ?

😳

[analog frigate]

specific distance where it's not too close to burn up or too far to freeze basically

[dim scroll]

oh that

[analog frigate]

the planet that is

[dim scroll]

the greenhouse zone or whatever

[analog frigate]

the habitable zone

as in, the planet can be habitable within that area

not necessarily but at least gives an opportunity

[dim scroll]

anybody got a pic of the star ?

[eternal talon]

Also if it is not, then us being able to survive on the surface.. is an anomaly at best.

[eternal talon]

If nobody else posts one, I'll run b1 in a bit to get one for you

[analog frigate]

it can't be an anomaly

unless there is another celestial body having a high amount of interference in the planet somehow

which we would notice

also about the "moon" we see in D1

hypothetically it can be another planet orbiting it in close proximity

[dim scroll]

So a satellite

[analog frigate]

it's just counted as another celestial body within the system

orbiting the planet we're on, close enough to appear like the moon does for us, far enough to not go past the roche limit

roche limit being the minimum distance before planets tear each other apart

[dim scroll]

Could be

[analog frigate]

it's another option

[dim scroll]

Considering the size of it in the sky, either it's extremely large but far away or quite close but small

[analog frigate]

we really can't know

[eternal talon]

With the color we can

[dim scroll]

It must have quite the high albedo then

[analog frigate]

luminosity will remain the same in both cases

also colour isn't affected by it

[eternal talon]

How many blue stars have you seen the size of our sol?

[analog frigate]

it's mostly changed by the angle that the light enters the atmosphere

[analog frigate]

many

[dim scroll]

Apparent size is correlated with distance as well tho

[analog frigate]

also it doesn't have to be the same size as sol

it can be bigger and brighter

[dim scroll]

Betelgeuse is gigantic yet we see it as a very small dot

[eternal talon]

I didn't say that it had to

[analog frigate]

but we are just farther away

also keep in mind that it is a class K

at least in appearance

so yellow-white

[eternal talon]

It's not as far as that, given destination orbits it, it's in the same solar system

[dim scroll]

The thing is the whole sun - satellite (?) system on red alpha is way too similar to earth's

[analog frigate]

actually we can hypothetically rule out that it's an atmosphere-less moon

[swift oasis]

those are written somewhere ?

[eternal talon]

Some are, some arent.

[analog frigate]

since the reflected light would have to be the same colour or at least close to it

if the other object has an atmosphere, that could drastically affect the light reflected

so the object orbiting red alpha is most likely another planet

that at least has an atmosphere

[dim scroll]

If it orbits red alpha it's not a planet by definition

[analog frigate]

but that's about everything you can get from just seeing the colour

[analog frigate]

it still is

[dim scroll]

as a planet has to orbit around a star

[analog frigate]

but yeah, it is a satellite of red alpha

[dim scroll]

when a satellite orbits around a more massive celestial body

[analog frigate]

it technically counts as both

red alpha being a satellite of it as well

[dim scroll]

Then earth is the moon's satellite

lol

[analog frigate]

not necessarily

[dim scroll]

Both are chunk of rocks

[eternal talon]

I agree with funky here

[dim scroll]

Both orbit

[analog frigate]

we don't know the mass of the other planet/satellite

it could be the more massive one, red alpha being its satellite

[dim scroll]

Then red alpha might be the satellite indeed

[eternal talon]

go outside, look up, take a pic of the sun

[subtle verge]

There are logs that give insight to the Gustavo x Jansen theory that I wrote: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jBbP19K92U3AlH2rXsUtKHtBkT0OGT3Fqx-1C2Z_B_U/edit?usp=sharing

And then you can find the BIOCOM takeover logs between Rundown 4 to Rundown 6 (might instead be R5-R6), if memory serves correctly. You can find those on the wiki or the timeline, timeline is linked in the pinned comments. 🙂

[eternal talon]

then compare it to destination alphas'

[dim scroll]

no need there are pics on internet

😳

[eternal talon]

of our sun?

[analog frigate]

why do we need a picture of the sun?

[eternal talon]

oh, i read it wrong

[eternal talon]

to compare?

[analog frigate]

that doesn't really work

[analog frigate]

we can only compare class

[dim scroll]

😳

[analog frigate]

the issue is, size is impossible to be found from one point

[dim scroll]

it's more about the size that i'm curious of

[analog frigate]

without special tools that is

[analog frigate]

we can't tell

[dim scroll]

no need for specific values

[analog frigate]

it could be smaller than the sun, but close, appearing the same size

[eternal talon]

it's in the same solar system, that rules out the giants and dwarfs.

[analog frigate]

it could be bigger than the sun, but further away, appearing the same size

[dim scroll]

Then it would release as much heat flux as the sun on red alpha

Or red alpha's atmosphere has a much denser atmosphere

[analog frigate]

both are possible

[dim scroll]

hence it would apply a better greenhouse effect than earth

[analog frigate]

although red alpha's magnetic field could be stronger

[dim scroll]

Too many possibilties at this point

[analog frigate]

yeah

there are too many unknowns that we can't measure to determine it

even rough estimates aren't really viable

[eternal talon]

5 hours in atmosphere thing could be burning to death or freezing to death

[analog frigate]

so the planet is on the inner end of the habitable zone

barely habitable with extreme temperatures

[eternal talon]

we don't even know that yet.

[analog frigate]

we can say, since the heat is hard to take

as you said, 5 hours

[subtle verge]

I don't think heat was mentioned, however.

[eternal talon]

our characters don't bi*ch about it

[analog frigate]

actually good point

it was about the atmosphere

[subtle verge]

Durant stated "I wouldn't want to spend more than 5 hours here without protection."

He didn't specify from what, however.

[analog frigate]

true

[eternal talon]

doesn't venus RAIN ACID?

[analog frigate]

yes

[dim scroll]

Yeah but the atmosphere itself is fucked up

Doesn't seem to be the case here

There's definitely air

the winds are not choatic like uranus'

[analog frigate]

and the pressure is high enough to crush a car almost instantly

[dim scroll]

Yeah pressure as well

Gravity

[eternal talon]

you say that.. but mountain high dust storms

[dim scroll]

Uranus' winds can go at more than mach 1

lol

[eternal talon]

still not 'normal' weather

[dim scroll]

It's not normal the moment everything is full of sand

[eternal talon]

to have daily dust bowls

[dim scroll]

Is that even sand actually or something else

😳

[analog frigate]

also consider that uranus is a gas giant, not a rocky/high metal content planet

[eternal talon]

it appears to be sand. it's rough, course, irritating, and gets everywhere. so it fills my checkbook.

[subtle verge]

I mean Mars can have dust/sand storms that blot out light from reaching the planet, we also have massive sand storms here on earth every once in a while, too. I mean look at the 2020 Saharan storm that spread across the globe.

Not anything dire, of course, just some respiratory issues from it for a lot of the planet.

[eternal talon]

@dim scroll @subtle verge @analog frigate here is your star.

[dim scroll]

ah yes

the game is so blurry it's literally impossible to see its shape

[eternal talon]

i can barely see an outline, it is so bright

@dim scroll join me and bring a sniper then 109775240993982847

see if you can get a better picture.

with my AR i can BARELY see it's outline, it's white.

near pure, like an egg-white.

[dim scroll]

okey

@eternal talon

Basically the chat

It's a fucking nightmare lmao

[eternal talon]

i see.

it already is hard enough to read chat on destination alpha.

[dim scroll]

Some weird light pillar

It's really hard to see anything

[analog frigate]

godrays

pretty common

[eternal talon]

at the minimum, Destination Alpha's star is 4,000 K hotter than our own.

that is from color alone

essentially, our sun is 6,000 K. destination's star is almost twice as hot, and that is not including it being either larger or smaller than our own.

@analog frigate

[analog frigate]

colour in terms of heat of a star works the opposite

[analog frigate]

the redder it is, the colder it is

yeah it's a K

[eternal talon]

yes, destinations' is a class F.

[analog frigate]

how is it a F

[eternal talon]

it is very very nearly white.

[analog frigate]

don't look straight at the star itself

[eternal talon]

it's appearance is like an egg-white

look at the pictures.

[analog frigate]

you need a sun filter to see the proper colour

the sun also looks like an F

if you just looks straight at it

[eternal talon]

i don't believe for a moment it is a class K.

[analog frigate]

look at the sides

at max it's a G

also look at the light it casts

if it was in fact an F, the surrounding sand would be paler white

[eternal talon]

it's literally entirely white

what are you playing at

[analog frigate]

i just said, don't look at the centre

[eternal talon]

@dim scroll

[analog frigate]

it's not accurate without a sun filter

[eternal talon]

i'm not

the entire bloody thing

edge to edge

is one solid color

there is ZERO gradient

[analog frigate]

here is the sun without a filter

total G maybe F right?

[eternal talon]

this planet has a dusty atmosphere as is clearly visible. from the surface it is egg-white, so it would obviously be lighter, not darker.

[analog frigate]

here it is as seen properly

there is a big difference

also this actually isn't the best picture

but you get the point hopefully

[eternal talon]

we aren't talking about our sun

[analog frigate]

yes

but i'm giving you an example

don't just look straight into the star

[eternal talon]

even in the picture you posted on our sun, you can see a gradient.

this has one.

[eternal talon]

IM NOT

[analog frigate]

look at the light it casts on the environment and the effects of the godrays

[analog frigate]

doesn't seem like it

[analog frigate]

btw it looks exactly like this picture

and that's our star, the sun, a class K

[eternal talon]

it is a solid color

there is no gradient

[analog frigate]

yeah?

[eternal talon]

it is not a class g.

[analog frigate]

most likely not yeah

[eternal talon]

it is hotter than our sun.

[analog frigate]

not necessarily

why would it be hotter

[eternal talon]

the next tier up is F

because it is a lighter color.

[analog frigate]

but it's not

[eternal talon]

oh my god dude

[analog frigate]

compare this

to this

what's the difference

[eternal talon]

here is NASA saying you are wrong
https://exoplanets.nasa.gov/what-is-an-exoplanet/stars/#:~:text=Hotter stars appear blue or white%2C while cooler,from hottest and biggest to coolest and smallest.

the title is misleading, it goes into talk about stars.

[dim scroll]

wat

[analog frigate]

ah G

when did they start considering it a G

[eternal talon]

like 10 years ago

i sent a graph

[analog frigate]

aight my mistake

[eternal talon]

^

[analog frigate]

still doesn't prove your point

it looks identical to the sun

[eternal talon]

it does not

our sun doesn't blot out the sky. you can see it's edges clearly with the naked eye

[dim scroll]

The thing is we aren't taking into account how the atmosphere affects the light

[analog frigate]

yeah because you are using your eyes to see it, not in-game rendering and then from your screen

[eternal talon]

universe sandbox 2.

[analog frigate]

what about it

[eternal talon]

you can see it from an also digital pov

but that is besides the point

[analog frigate]

you're still avoiding to tell me the reason why these two stars are different classes

[eternal talon]

if you are talking game engine limitations into account, you have already lost your arguement

[analog frigate]

i haven't

[eternal talon]

i've said like 3 times. Destinations' isn't a gradient. it's one solid color throughout. as YOU said, the edges are the true color.

therefore, CLEARLY, destinations' is BRIGHTER and HOTTER

[analog frigate]

and the image of the sun isn't a gradient

[eternal talon]

https://tenor.com/view/facepalm-picard-star-trek-the-next-generation-disappointed-gif-23456183

you are KILLING ME

daraxus

[analog frigate]

same

and here is another picture of the sun

even closer to the other star

[eternal talon]

here is destinations with the game on MAX SETTINGS

you can bearly even see it it's so bright against the atmospheric lens flare

[dim scroll]

lmao

[eternal talon]

from OUR ATMOSPHERE,

[eternal talon]

our sun is not even 1/10th of a percent of that

[analog frigate]

and here is the image of the sun i just sent

[eternal talon]

okay, that's an exaggeration, but still.

[analog frigate]

literally this

[analog frigate]

is brighter than this

[eternal talon]

and if it's colder then what, everything on destination freezes?

[analog frigate]

no

nothing changes

[eternal talon]

it and earth's sol are the same size roughly speaking from view from the planet.

so it wouldn't be in the goldilocks zone, so everything is dead, THE END.

[analog frigate]

it would still be in the habitable zone

all i'm saying is, it's a class G

or more properly said, the same class as the sun