#gtfo-lore

1 messages · Page 239 of 1

pine agate
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You know, it comes to my attention how this... Virus? Or whatever turned these people into these evil monsters has evolved through time. To practically have its own ecosystem inside the complex, how many years might have passed to reach such level of evolution?

late raven
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not many. isnt there a clear date of when the rundowns happen?

dim scroll
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no

lilac island
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so is there anything to the theory that shooters and their variants are some sort of immature mother variants?

lilac island
eternal talon
lilac island
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so what you're saying is its entirely possible theres a massive underground network of infection/whatever

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that ISNT the complex?

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and isnt from the global infection/extinction of the human race

eternal talon
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no it is. nam-v is the virus

lilac island
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I dont think nam v is "just" a virus

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I think it is a sort of infectious biomass that produces airborn infection vectors

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from what we see of the massive, idk, hives, or whatever they are

eternal talon
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@analog frigate did a report with someone who IRL specializes in this sort of thing

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he will know far more, if he is avaliable

upbeat dust
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vg

bold sluice
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ah, that's understandable i suppose

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but, i was under the impression that the projector simply brought you back to where the material came from, not necessarily that the material itself was special

finite vine
bold sluice
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h uh

finite vine
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It was from one of Dr. Stokes audio logs

eternal talon
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<@&408548765599793173>

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ty

regal kayak
solar patio
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Idea about shadows in relation to hallucinations: What if the shadows appear the way they are because the warden is somehow editing them out of the prisoners vision. Suppose that the shadows actually do not appear how we see them in reality and they are actually some new kind of sleeper that is in some way classified from the wardens perspective. Who therefore, cannot allow the prisoners to see them. Maybe it is worried that seeing that shadows as they really are will be too much for the prisoners psyche or give them valuable information it does not want them to have. Through the use of drugs or microchips in the prisoners brains the shadows are being seen as an anomaly, It could explain how they seemingly don't act in accordance with the laws of physics,

Another possibility is that Red Alpha's light spectrum has some inconsistencies with earths light spectrum, and somehow the shadows have been affected by that. Maybe the true color that the shadows exist in, is not visible to human eyes and the way that color reacts to the environment causes the visual inconsistencies we see. Perhaps, the way light even interacts with matter is different then our understanding of of how it typically would interact. Somehow, light might pass through solid tissue on the other planet in a way we can't imagine, so the sleepers may have an evolutionary trait that was lying dormant until somehow prolonged exposure to darkness awakened it.

raw island
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Yeah I figure the shadows probably reflect a different spectrum that we can’t see

analog frigate
# solar patio Idea about shadows in relation to hallucinations: What if the shadows appear the...

so: i don't see why the warden would cripple the ability of its workers to succeed in doing the task it sent them out to do. also we've tried explaining it with it being something related to a different light spectrum that we can't see - there are a lot of things that don't make sense. for example: why does only the skin posses such properties of being translucent and the internals are completely invisible? if it was something like IR or UV light that they absorb/reflect, then we would see them as being perfectly black or a perfect mirror, since how they reflect or absorb visible light matters, not higher/lower spectrums. since light is electromagnetic radiation, after going above or below IR or UV light, we get to things humans can't really detect so they don't matter. only how they react to visible light matters

analog frigate
rapid iron
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light absorption would make the sleeper 100% black no matter the environment, and is therefore not the case. You could only argue that it could be bending light around itself to give it that level of invisibility. Even then it would take super precise shapes and surface index values etc to get such a clean invisibility, something even us humans havent created yet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZMyWEWHCTM This is what we have so far but you can see that even this can be told apart when viewed closer, which cant be said for shadows. Although maybe thats what the whole light shining on them may be?

YouTube
The Telegraph
'Invisibility cloak' that could hide tanks and troops looks closer ...

Harry Potter’s ‘invisibility cloak’ appears closer to reality as Canadian camouflage manufacturer Hyperstealth Biotechnology has applied for patents on its ‘Quantum Stealth’ material.

The ‘inexpensive and paper-thin’ technology works by bending light around a target to either alter its position or make it vanish altogether, leaving only the bac...

▶ Play video
south lake
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It could be some heretofore unidentified effect of the crystals when manipulated in a certain way.

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Shooters and such seem to have outcroppings of them in their faces, after all.

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I forget if Strikers have them sprouting out of their bodies or not, it's been a minute since I last jumped in game, and I'm usually more focused on bashing heads than their general anatomy

rapid iron
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I mean, as seen with Bishops case, he didnt exactly get wiped for most of his memory the first time. Perhaps fragments may remain? I mean they would otherwise KSOs wouldn't be able to walk, talk or anything, but u get what I mean

rapid iron
south lake
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Hmm. Might be worth chalking it up as an evolutionary change made by the parasite, then.

rapid iron
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even then tho, are we sure those are crystals on shooters?

analog frigate
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no

rapid iron
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if I'm not wrong they glow when aggro

analog frigate
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they aren't

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the crystals are only known to be found on flyers/floaters

rapid iron
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I mean I read NoS and sure its a theory that thats where the projectiles come out

rapid iron
analog frigate
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yes

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on their back

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that's how they can teleport short distances

rapid iron
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that makes sense

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I guess I never really looked at it too well, too busy shitting my pants trying to hit them

eternal talon
south lake
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Dauda and Bishop are both clearly unstable by the way they act in the expedition prep screen, talking to themselves and smacking themselves in the head

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Their memory loss is fucking with them pretty badly

finite vine
south lake
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And all the characters have some primal fear that runs deeper than memories, if their reaction when they get out of Hydrostasis is any indicator. The gasping and whining as they get lowered down as if mentally they're going "No no nonononono not again", but they aren't awake enough to actually vocalize it

analog frigate
south lake
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Less that we "left" it open and more that WRDN wasn't able to close it

finite vine
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also I don't think the shadows are hallucinations. they show up on bio trackers, and they physically damage the prisoners.

analog frigate
south lake
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If my theory regarding reality self-correction is correct at all, that's likely why

finite vine
south lake
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The folded space basically "snipping off" the excess and sealing the two spaces together, thus effectively "jamming" the quantum tether open

analog frigate
south lake
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I don't think the crystals are anything more than just a means of teleporting around, for them. We don't need the Matter Wave Projector to use the Quantum Tether once it's actually open and stable, so there's no reason they would need the crystals in their backs in order to do the same

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It's more likely that any matter that hits the space the Tether occupies gets pulled to its destination automatically

finite vine
south lake
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Only because the untested failsafes that were supposed to allow the Project Insight team to pull them back ended up failing.

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The fact the WRDN was able to remotely yank us back without having to go back to the Tether's origin point likely means those failsafes have since been refined and tested.

finite vine
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to me it kinda seems like a plot hole actually

south lake
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Which, unfortunately, may also be another possible explanation for why the Tether wasn't able to be closed

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There's also the possibility that because of the presence of the same kinds of crystals that the Matter Wave Projector utilizes, the Tether may have latched onto one of the outcroppings and effectively formed a kind of stable one-way wormhole

eternal talon
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wtf are these things?

20220211183327_1.jpg 20220211183322_1.jpg
quick grove
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Sleepers

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Not fully formed ones i think

south lake
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Which would mean any kind of termination signal to close the Tether would have to be sent from the side they just got yanked from

eternal talon
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they look like a wrinkly hand that's been in the shower for too long

south lake
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And yeah, my guess is those are meant to be some kind of nascent Sleeper that Santonian got their hands on during the early days of the infection

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Either a little bit before or just before people started going full-blown Sleeper

quick grove
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Because it had no way of doing so

south lake
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Moreover, why would it attempt to close the Tether if it had no means of doing so?

quick grove
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Huh okay

south lake
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That's out of line for a machine. If it knows it can't do something, it won't attempt it.

quick grove
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But that doesn't mean the crystals on the other side had anything to do with it

south lake
quick grove
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Ah

eternal talon
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well i mean to be fair, we got the WMP back in d1 so... it probably sent another team to go deal with the situation and retrieve it, rather than closing it itself.

20220131212832_1.jpg
south lake
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Given that the crystals appear to be of the same type as the ones the Matter Wave Projector uses for its.. wibbly-wobbly trans-spatial teleporty bullshit.. it's possible that the Tether may have latched onto one of the outcroppings, and that may be why the Tether couldn't be closed, if the termination signal - whatever that is - needs to be sent on the same side as the initial opening point of said Tether.

eternal talon
south lake
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Can't lock a solid door from the opposite side of the locking mechanism, if that makes sense.

eternal talon
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since they are teleporting in with their own.. weird sorta black hole lookin' things

20220121165350_1.jpg
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warden probably sacrificed a team to close it from destination alpha's end

south lake
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If the signal had to be sent on that side, most likely.

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Probably also a decision it didn't make lightly, since it has a very finite amount of KSOs to use.

eternal talon
south lake
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True, what I meant by that is that it likely exhausted all possible solutions before effectively cutting the throats of a few KSOs

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That and the risk of them finding a way back on their own, but outside of the purview of the WRDN

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Given it's attempt on Schaeffer's life in a past Rundown, it really does not want any more of him running around.

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For good reason, you wouldn't want a bunch of batshit crazy people skilled in evading and eliminating Sleeper hordes down there unless you were able to control them somehow.

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It's kind of a double edged sword. The WRDN's reliance on keeping KSOs in their effectively tortured state is an extreme moral wrong and is abhorrent, but at the same time the WRDN and its KSO puppets are most likely the only thing keeping the Sleepers from breaching the Garganta perimeter and spreading to the rest of the world, if they haven't already.

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If humanity isn't extinct already, the Sleepers getting out most definitely would finish the job

eternal talon
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who's gonna tell him?

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99.98% of humanity is dead by the time of 2057 given maths done by Daraxus and some friends of his, there are likely only like 30k people left on earth

south lake
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Yes, I know.

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30k people is still 30k people.

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And we already went over the kind of sample size required to bring humanity back from the brink.

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Which is less than 30k.

eternal talon
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i don't really think it'd be enough for the warden to care, even if that was it's goal, which we don't know to be true.

south lake
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This has nothing to do with whether WRDN cares

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I'm saying that WRDN and its KSOs are the only thing keeping Garganta contained

eternal talon
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from the sleepers, yeah.

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given only NAM-V got out

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it's very likely there are 0 sleepers on the surface

south lake
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And if some whackjob escapees manage to shut out the WRDN or otherwise disable it - as Schaeffer's intent seems to undermine the WRDN - then nothing's stopping the Sleepers from getting out, and sample size or no, Humanity is basically dead in its entirety.

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Because only KSOs know what's up with the Sleepers, and possibly a very few select people left on the surface

quick grove
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The sleepers are asleep

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I don't think they'll just magically wake up

eternal talon
south lake
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^

eternal talon
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most are though, yes.

quick grove
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Ye but even if the wdrn is shut off them doors ain't opening regardless of whats happening

eternal talon
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it's just another variable if the warden is removed, if the warden is doing anything at all?

south lake
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There's a giant gaping hole to the surface clean through the middle of the Complex.

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You see it every time you start an Expedition.

quick grove
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True

south lake
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The WRDN most likely has measures in place to stop any clever Sleepers from climbing the pit and getting out.

eternal talon
quick grove
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But then again it will be hard to traverse upwords tbh

south lake
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Hard =/= Impossible

eternal talon
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which we don't know at all

south lake
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And for all we know the Sleepers could be dormant because they're incubating eggs to infect more people.

eternal talon
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if it wanted is to eliminate them, we would have extermination missions, but we never have

south lake
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It is a thing parasites like to do, after all.

eternal talon
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technically, we can just sneak past 90% of the sleepers we encounter in the game aside from alarms

south lake
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I'm saying nothing about WRDN's intent or whether it cares about humanity.

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Just that WRDN and its KSOs are keeping Garganta contained.

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Which they are.

eternal talon
south lake
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Except, again

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Scouts and blood doors throw a wrench into that idea.

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Why would 90% of Sleepers be dormant, except for Scouts and the few Strikers/Giants/Shooters that are attacking doors?

quick grove
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I would wonder if people just had put a giant fucking metal door over the entrance of the elevator nothing would go in or out

eternal talon
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to keep dickheads like us from stopping them from going back to sleep?

south lake
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Which makes no sense, if they're wanting to go back into hibernation.

eternal talon
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they have a hive

south lake
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And?

quick grove
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If the sleepers wanted to sleep let them sleep

eternal talon
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so it'd make sense to have a couple lookouts so to say

quick grove
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Just close the door on em

eternal talon
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while the majority go back to sleep

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like rotations of a ship's crew on lookout

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until the humans stop annoying them

south lake
eternal talon
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we don't know what they've been doing for 65 million years

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for all we know, they had alien infected scouts wandering about on rotating shifts all that time

south lake
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I think you're giving them far too much credit intelligence-wise.

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Parasites in general live for one thing and one thing only. To propagate.

eternal talon
quick grove
south lake
eternal talon
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think just instincts, not mental capacity.

quick grove
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I would say other wise

south lake
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That hole got blown into the facility by whatever the hell that big fuckoff laser was that got mentioned in one of the logs

eternal talon
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isn't the hole we drop down from the big blast?

south lake
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Mhm

quick grove
eternal talon
quick grove
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And the warden uses an elevator of some sorts to send us down

eternal talon
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think blowback, from a gun. on a massive scale, from whatever they hit with the drill

south lake
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It's not an elevator of any natural kind. The device that drops us down into the pit is no doubt attached to some kind of mobile crane.

quick grove
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We sure as fuck ain't floating down

south lake
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It's only using the pit because that's - quite literally - the easiest point of access

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Especially if the original entrance to Garganta is sealed shut.

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Or otherwise inaccessible.

eternal talon
quick grove
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Well everytime i see we drop down there clearly construction around us

south lake
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Yes?

quick grove
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Yes

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So wouldn't they have something to close of everything

south lake
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You don't set up a mining base like that and not have a surface-level facility to bring supplies and shit into the tunnels

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It's not gonna be just some massive dirt field in the middle of nowhere with nothing on it

eternal talon
eternal talon
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...

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garganta is ALOT like the Hive

south lake
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They probably had some kind of platform where the blast occurred that had a hole blown in it, and once things started getting out of hand, Kovac likely decided to use that pit for easy access to most of the Complex levels for clearing out Sleepers

quick grove
south lake
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Since prior to Garganta's abandonment there's logs stating that Kovac has KSOs out hunting sleepers

eternal talon
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mmmmm

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i wanna see allen sleepers.

quick grove
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Yes

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And the mimic thing

eternal talon
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from the inner

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or fuck, just go to the inner.

quick grove
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Yes

south lake
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Given the presence of Sleeper hives

quick grove
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Isn't it stated in the logs that welp theres like catacombs or something idk

south lake
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Immediately dropping to the Inner without clearing things and getting a better picture of what's down there seems like it would be a very, very bad idea

eternal talon
quick grove
south lake
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And I believe the catacombs mentioned were of prior civilizations

eternal talon
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if anything, it would have to be the point of an entire rundown

eternal talon
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sauce?

south lake
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It was when they were excavating the site for Garganta

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Something about mayan catacombs or whatever

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Those weren't very far down though IIRC

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I'm probably misremembering. Lemme hit up the wiki.

eternal talon
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what log would that be?

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i've never heard of that

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i know there are mentions of the mayans,

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but i've never heard of any catacombs

south lake
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..If my browser will fucking open.

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There we go. One second.

eternal talon
south lake
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Damn, NAM-V is almost as infectious as Measles

quick grove
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It's covid just worse lol

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@eternal talon btw is covid a thing in this games universe or is that a no

south lake
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COVID isn't even close to NAM-V's R0, what're you talking about?

rapid iron
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He means has it happened before in the game history

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I don't think so. The COVID thingy they were talking abt was the SARS outbreak of 2004 if I'm not wrong

south lake
rapid iron
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ah I see

south lake
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As far as COVID goes, its R0 isn't even comparable to NAM-V's

eternal talon
south lake
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COVID's R0 is anywhere from 5-7 depending on variant, if I'm remembering correctly, which is a far cry from NAM-V's R0 of 17

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Anyroad

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I wasn't able to find any logs mentioning catacombs

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So I guess I was misremembering

rapid iron
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hence the term covid BUT WORSE

quick grove
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Erm right bud mate i wasn't comparing the two i just said NAMV is a worst covid

south lake
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That's.. comparing them, but okay.

analog frigate
quick grove
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Well yes but actually no

rapid iron
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I think merv meant a global pandemic similar to COVID but worse

quick grove
analog frigate
quick grove
quick grove
south lake
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You're either comparing something or you aren't, there's no "kinda sorta but not really" comparing something

analog frigate
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covid isn't really comparable to nam-v

south lake
rapid iron
analog frigate
south lake
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CoV is one of the acronyms for COVID, so..

rapid iron
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I see I see

rapid iron
analog frigate
south lake
analog frigate
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or i think WHO said the recent was 5.7 or something

rapid iron
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the current COVID 19 is sorta like a cousin of the previous SARS outbreak

analog frigate
quick grove
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Jesus i don't know what R-naughts are but id assume the more it has the more dangerous it is

analog frigate
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r-naught is how many people 1 person infect

south lake
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R-naught is "How many people on average will an infected person pass the infection to"

rapid iron
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how many people are infected from one person

analog frigate
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an r-naught of 17 means that one infected person infects 17

south lake
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^

quick grove
quick grove
rapid iron
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well we were slapped hard by SARS too

south lake
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If anything, compare NAM-V to Measles, which has an R0 of 18

quick grove
rapid iron
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but its a lot more deadly

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as well

south lake
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Deadliness isn't everything

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Not when you're dealing with viruses

quick grove
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I wouldn't know lol

south lake
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Rate of infection and immune response matter as well

quick grove
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Im just saying NamV is a worsened covid on a pandemic scale

south lake
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If a virus is extremely deadly but is easily resisted or has a low infectivity, it'll burn itself out of victims before it can become a serious problem

rapid iron
rapid iron
south lake
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The ideal form of a virus is one that has extremely low lethality but extremely high infectivity and ability to bypass the immune system

rapid iron
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yes but NAM V was high infectivity and high lethality

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It was like the absolute of bothj

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both

south lake
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I'm not talking NAM-V, I'm talking viruses in general.

rapid iron
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oh we not talking abt NAM V anymore???

south lake
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I'm just gonna get back to my game.

rapid iron
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idk man last thing u were talking abt was measles vs NAM V

quick grove
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Lmao

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Measles the fuck is that

south lake
quick grove
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Ay yo

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I don't trust them links bud

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Ill look it up me self

south lake
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lol.. alright then.

rapid iron
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lol

quick grove
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Looked up NAM-V as joke didn't except this

Screenshot_20220213-123314_Chrome.jpg
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New age metals inc people

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Welcome to the future

finite vine
finite vine
south lake
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As far as I'm aware, we are KSOs, albeit unwilling ones.

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KSOs are kept in Hydrostasis at all times when not given a mission, from what I remember

finite vine
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yea by KSO's I also mean legion members.

south lake
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We are legion members. Unwilling ones.

finite vine
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and the prisoners we play as well.

south lake
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KSOs are all part of Project Legion.

analog frigate
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not all of them

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dauda isn't

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also some are willing like hackett

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he volunteered

south lake
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If you're a KSO, you're in Project Legion, though?

analog frigate
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basically everyone yeah

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but dauda wasn't a part of legion

south lake
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Not initially

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But he was eventually shoved in there as an unwilling subject

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Otherwise we wouldn't be able to play as him

analog frigate
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well we don't know if legion was a thing when he came out of his HSU

finite vine
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I think the wardens prisoners are just a mix of legion members, KSO's, and unwilling people.

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Legion was an old program right?

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when was it first mentioned?

analog frigate
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all legion members are KSOs

south lake
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And the four characters we have access to are KSOs.

analog frigate
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yes

south lake
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As far as we know, Santonian and Dreyfus never used HSUs, only Kovac, as Project Legion was a secret of Kovac's.

analog frigate
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dreyfus did work with HSUs

tall anchor
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HSU’s are mostly kovak for sure

analog frigate
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since the neonate has their branding

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hi lilliana

south lake
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Working with doesn't necessarily mean using for personnel.

analog frigate
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they are all kovac tech

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since they were made by kovac

tall anchor
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Kovac definetly used them and mostly developed them, but idk if santonian ever used them

south lake
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Dreyfus never used HSUs

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Is what I was referencing

analog frigate
south lake
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:|

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And I just said

tall anchor
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I don’t think so, i can’t remember anything with their branding on them, there could have been a santonian logo but idk

south lake
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Working with HSUs doesn't necessarily mean they're using them for personnel

analog frigate
south lake
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A neonate is not Dreyfus personnel.

analog frigate
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i'm not talking about storing personnel

south lake
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I am

analog frigate
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ah

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then yeah, they probably didn't

tall anchor
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I mean, why would they?

analog frigate
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mainly kovac and probably santonian did

tall anchor
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Why would santonian store personel?

south lake
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In any case, Santonian or Dreyfus (it's not explained which) brought Dauda in for work on Project Insight.

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Given that Dauda has been inducted as a KSO and thus a Legionnaire, he must have pissed someone off.

analog frigate
south lake
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We don't know that for sure

tall anchor
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They wouldn’t want the side effects* for any of their workers, and there’s no need for long term work on that stuff.

*unless intended, like bishop

south lake
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Nowhere does it state who brought him in.

analog frigate
tall anchor
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i think it does

analog frigate
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and then they got him into custody

south lake
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That wasn't Dauda. Dauda was the guy found under an alias working for a medical charity group.

tall anchor
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^

analog frigate
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damn i need to sleep

south lake
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You're thinking of Bishop, I think it was?

analog frigate
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yes

tall anchor
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I think dauda clearly had enough of what was going on and ran away before they found him

south lake
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It's not explained what got Dauda shoved in an HSU and turned into a Legionnaire

analog frigate
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he did himself when sleepers were banging on the door

south lake
analog frigate
south lake
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From what I remember, they were keeping an eye out for people they could use

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And they ended up discovering Dauda, who was operating under an alias

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So Kovac brought him in, plopped him in front of a Santonian/Dreyfus (still undetermined) representative, and offered him a job

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To which he accepted

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Anything *significant after that is lost aside from his mad ramblings

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For all we know he could've been with Project Insight

tall anchor
rapid iron
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NO DAUDA WENT IN ON HIS OWN VOLITION

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the audio logs show that

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he went in as a last ditch effort to hide from the sleepers

south lake
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Uh.. English, please?

rapid iron
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No its korean subtitles, english audio

south lake
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Well, regardless. He's effectively inducted himself into Project Legion.

rapid iron
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To summarise, the sleepers have broken out, and dauda records a last message as he puts himself into hydrostasis to avoid the sleepers. They wont be able to break in but he will have no way to get out. He regrets working for dreyfus and exclaims that he is a coward for 'dying in his sleep and not to the evil he created' he then begs for the gods to forgive him before going into hydrostasis, the sleepers break through and the audio ends

#

He didnt induct himself in the legion program, he went into a HSU it isnt the same

#

Legion program is specifically Kovac putting you in it. It has specific protocols and everything as shown from the other character audio logs. Dauda just put himself in and thats it

#

You cant even say he was ever a KSO since he never even worked for Kovac

#

As for the stuff dauda did, he experimented with sleepers as shown from his nightmares he gets. The people he experimented on and possibly even forcefully gave the parasite and virus are haunting his conscience. His conscience was telling him to stop but he kept going for progress. Thats why he's so ashamed abt what he did in the whole "I put progress ahead of ethics" bit in the audio log above

quick grove
#

so dauda still gets nightmares even tho his mems are erased

#

@analog frigate i wonder isn't there any other side effects other than losing your memories in the HSU?

#

Id assume constantly going in and going out on the HSU could cause something

analog frigate
#

we don't know

quick grove
#

Ah

#

After hearing there each and individual voice logs does the characters at least remember the voice logs that they hear

rapid iron
#

Nope, but they do have reactions after listening to them

quick grove
#

So after Being put back into the HSU they just forget

rapid iron
#

I mean the question is do they really forget each other? I mean sure its said that they do, but its shown that they dont

quick grove
#

But they somehow remember what a sleeper is

quick grove
rapid iron
#

They way they talk to each other is very reminiscent of old friends talking to each other

#

Maybe when they get injected the warden flashes all the info and experience needed back into their minds?

quick grove
#

We wouldn't know

rapid iron
#

Welp

quick grove
#

Welp

rapid iron
#

The nightmare part btw is an audio log, before he went in the HSU, but in the first trailer he does say he gets the nightmares still

quick grove
#

Ah

#

So theres maybe a possibility that the HSU doesn't erase everything

#

Because id assume getting nightmares id assume you'd need to have memories

lilac island
#

so, there was an abandoned section of garganta we went into, in, R5, I think?

#

that had gigantic mats of infected biomass

#

is it ever explained how the virus makes that jump?

south lake
#

Guaranteed that's not NAM-V, that's the Parasite.

#

As to what the purpose of that kind of thing is, no idea.

lilac island
#

I dont believe there is any difference

#

the "parasite" is just the physical manifestation of the virus once it starts commandeering the dead/infected person

subtle verge
#

That is 100% false.

#

The virus and parasite are two completely separate entities.

quick grove
#

Damn you got there before me

subtle verge
#

There's a log that also proves that they're separate entities. It talks about how removal of the parasite still leads to viral load increasing.

quick grove
#

So if the parasite is removed do they just die of the virus or still mutate but just dies regardless

subtle verge
#

We don't know. Likely they just die from the virus.

#

As, with reference to biology, the parasite is the tongue that lashes at us. (Theory)

finite vine
rapid iron
#

I think he means the charger biomass

rapid iron
south lake
#

That's.. not at all what I meant.

#

I never said it was one single parasite, and to imply as such would be flat out incorrect given every single Sleeper has a parasite in them. AFAIK that's what attacks you when they go to lash you with their proboscis.

lilac island
#

the infection had a very large amount of time to populate it, and so it was esp gruesome

#

biomass on the ceiling, lots of highly mutated sleeper variants

lilac island
#

I've seen the log on their "biology" if it could even be called that

#

but it raises more questions than it answers

subtle verge
#

LOCS-43W-MOA-D.LOG


As requested, I have compiled the analysis of the affected subjects.

The subject's physiological changes do seem to be permanent. The ossification of the fibrous cartilage in both the spine and menisci appears to start at the brain stem and spreads rapidly, possibly due to the greater intercellular space offered. Attempts to slow the spread have so far been unsuccessful.

Affected subjects show signs of cognitive reduction within a few days, which accompanies the bent or stooped posture. They are able to continue menial work for several weeks, before succumbing to the pain and physical disability.

Opiates and derivatives ease the pain of the subjects, and we have been administering liberally as no other form of palliative care appears to work.

I have our entire cellular biology department working on this, but so far little progress has been made. Even after the parasite is removed, the viral load increases. We cannot stop the progress of the virus, and our only defense is SCBA Level A suits when in NAM-V hotspots. Even with this level of protection, the parasites are finding ways in.

Transition from initial diagnosis to cellular collapse takes approximately 5 weeks. We have yet to discover what happens thereafter. I will keep you posted.

We need more narcotics. Our stocks are running low.

Ron Sullivan```
lilac island
#

cellular collapse

#

interesting

#

so we need more info, is what I take from that

#

it seems to be that the parasites are what the initial infection vector is?

subtle verge
#

The parasites carry NAM-V, akin to how fleas carried bubonic plague.

rapid iron
lilac island
#

I still dont think thats entirely correct

#

I think they're more highly connected than that

#

I think the virus is what creates the "parasites" out of whatever previous species they were

#

similar to how it mutates/converts humans on a cellular level

rapid iron
#

That might be it, even if it cant do it just with the virus to humans

#

Humans require the parasite to become sleepers

subtle verge
#

I mean, technically all viruses are obligate parasites.

lilac island
#

well yeah

rapid iron
subtle verge
#

I'm just covering all angles.

lilac island
#

what that tells me more than anything is that the devs took heavy inspiration from the thing 1982

#

which is just kinda awesome

#

disgusting, but awesome

rapid iron
#

Which part tells you that?

lilac island
#

cellular conversion

rapid iron
#

What is the definition of cellular collapse in this case

#

Is it the destruction of the cell or assimilation????

lilac island
#

I had assumed that was what they meant

#

that is the question, I suppose

#

but I figured it meant assimilation

rapid iron
#

Destruction of cell would be like hamorrhaging and shit, assimilation would be like the thing

#

Collapse would explain the strikers guts leaking

lilac island
#

seeing as how it utilizes the current biomass of the host to make new structures

rapid iron
#

Since maybe the entire stomach muscle and skin cells are ruptured

lilac island
#

this is just normal sleepers, too

#

shit like mothers and tanks are just kinda question marks

rapid iron
#

Tank I cant tell what happens but mothers are quite clear

#

Their ribcages grew a lot

lilac island
#

pregnant host, yeah

#

that too

rapid iron
#

Pregnant host possibly too

#

Probablu

#

Probably cancerous like viral changes

#

I mean it does say that if I'm not wrong somewhere

lilac island
#

I think the host is actually dead

rapid iron
#

Abt mutating the human DNA structure itself or smthn

#

Yes I think so

lilac island
#

or at least not alive in any sense that would be recognizable

rapid iron
#

Yep

lilac island
#

so it is assimilation, then

rapid iron
#

Its not complete assimilation tho

#

Mostly just editting, not turning the human into parasite, hence the mutations

lilac island
#

yeah

#

makes sense

subtle verge
#

So I'm trying to find a layman's definition of cellular collapse, and the closest I can find in those terms seem to be pointing at the point where the body is losing more cells than it's able to produce over a period of time.

lilac island
#

there is definitely a degree of cellular assimilation going on but, yeah that makes sense

#

a kind of slow cell by cell death

subtle verge
#

But the one thing I can find that makes the most sense revolves around plants and desiccation.

#

And then there's just a Star Trek fandom that says a guy is dying from cell collapse and something else.

#

But it has no defined terms.

lilac island
#

so it could mean either

#

ok then

#

well, yeah

#

its probably both

lilac island
#

idek what kinda nasty process it could be described as

#

but combined, I guess

rapid iron
#

idk so

#

I think 3 parasites one host is more probable

#

they only have 2 arms and 2 legs after all

#

assuming that the theory that the tongues are the parasites, a human with 3 parasites having been grafted would be more probable

#

also since chargers have been seen at the big black biomass, it can be assumed that maybe that biomass has something to do with the black colouration and spikes that chargers and variants, tanks and hybrids possess?

south lake
#

@subtle verge Has it been confirmed at all in any definitive way that the black spikes on Shooters and whatnot are in no way related to the crystals?

#

Because my mind keeps thinking "What if the parasites are what creates the crystal gradually VIA defecation of processed material?"

finite vine
south lake
#

Coprolites are a thing.

#

Which are fossilized feces, but there exists the possibility that a primarily Lithophagous species would be able to produce refined "waste" elements from the stuff that it eats.

#

And seeing as the Parasite infests humans, and we are a Carbon-based species..

finite vine
#

Well the parasites would have to be on planet alpha, and there would have to be a lot of them to produce all of those crystals.

south lake
#

Not necessarily. If the parasites reside within the former intestinal cavity, they're quite large. And we don't exactly know what the Floaters are. They could be an "adult" variant of the parasite.

#

All we know about them for sure right now is that they're very big, very angry, and they like spitting things at us.

#

And they can fly and teleport.

finite vine
#

By crystals, you do also mean the giant crystals from planet alpha right?

#

the black ones

south lake
#

I mean the black crystals similar to the one found inside the Matter Wave Projector, yes.

#

If the floaters are an adult variant of the parasite, that would possibly explain what the crystals are, and tie the black masses that shooters fire at us and other variants have present on their bodies to the crystals themselves

#

Key word if

#

We won't know until we're given confirmation, either through lore or an AMA or something

finite vine
#

Yea that is still a good point, there has to be some biological correlation between floaters and the crystals. However, that’s not really a good enough reason to assume that floaters are an adult version of a parasite.

south lake
#

Part of the reason I suggest that they could be an adult version of the parasite is because otherwise the presence of floaters is just.. way out of left field, unless their only reason for existing is to explain where the crystals come from.

#

Which would be.. rather disappointing tbh.

finite vine
#

Well the crystals could still come from anywhere. I highly doubt they are from biological origin. They are probably just another element that is not native to our solar system.

#

How would you explain the kraken from D1? that is from way out of left field also. We also download a genome database during D1, which could be a comprehensive database of the species we observe on planet alpha. The floaters, and the kraken. They might even be related to NAM-V and sleepers (which they probably are)

lilac island
finite vine
#

This could be a situation where there is a certain virus or organism that mutates living things and transforms it into its own species, kinda like the black goo from the alien franchise.

lilac island
#

as has been noted a few times they're similar to the growths from certain IRL viruses

rapid iron
#

and they glow yellowish when they shoot too

late raven
crisp sage
#

I'm not sure how the Kraken from D1 could be related to the Sleepers and NAM-V.

#

There's no real similarities that I could think of to link the two.

dim scroll
#

before R6 no one could've thought a planet & teleportation would have anything to do with NAM-V & sleepers

#

at this point we'll have to wait for ext or R7 to get some answers

rapid iron
rapid iron
late raven
#

and the result could be the shadowy outline. it feels like it could be something along those lines

rapid iron
#

as for why its important, if floaters are the adult parasites then that means the kraken is like the originator of the parasites

crisp sage
#

I feel like, if anything, the Floaters and the Kraken are not exactly related to the Sleepers. Rather, the Kraken is completely alien and the Floaters are a 'product' of the alien.

rapid iron
#

probably, but we have no way of knowing

crisp sage
#

And that NAM-V is something the alien produced, and the Sleepers are the end result of NAM-V infecting an organic life.

#

Oh I know, I'm just speculating.

rapid iron
#

all we know is that the virus, parasites and kraken come from the same planet

crisp sage
#

My own private assumption is that NAM-V is akin to the Chimaera virus from the Resistance series.

#

In that it was developed by an alien species for usage against others.

rapid iron
#

Sleepers need the parasite to actually be sleepers, whether the virus is needed is unknown but assumed. A person with just NAM V just dies

#

what

quick grove
#

<@&408548765599793173>

rapid iron
#

thats scam

#

yep

quick grove
#

Fucking chromadome looking boy

rapid iron
#

why even tho

quick grove
#

?

rapid iron
#

like why even spam this kind of shit

quick grove
#

That's their way of making money i guess

#

Why don't they just have a bot that deletes the links

#

Oh wait it would delete the video links and everything thing then

#

Nvm

rapid iron
#

then you might as well not allow links to be posted

quick grove
#

Ye

subtle verge
rapid iron
#

shooters have balls tho, not quills. My personal thought is either just skin mutations, or sacs for storing their projectiles

subtle verge
#

Lilliana made a note that it's possible that they're eggs.

#

I'm not sure on the theory behind that, I'd ask her for more info on that front.

subtle verge
#

<@&408548765599793173> Please and thank you!

subtle verge
#

Thanks, mods, love you!

lilac island
#

100% is

#

they are the exact same thing

#

the meatballs/sleepers and all of their variants are infected with the same thing

crisp sage
#

What is there to say that?

lilac island
#

the tumors they all have are the exact same looking

#

the same kind of bioluminescence when they are alerted/in combat

#

and most telling of all shooters/meatballs and the kraken all shoot the same things at you

#

it all tracks

subtle verge
#

While they might be different in their natural species, they're all related to the same affliction(s).

sacred moon
#

also bringing up the sleepers in tanks in B1 again, aren't some of them connected to the ground? They always looked like some weird sort of fungus to me.

#

which doesn't quite fit sleeper lore, but idk welp

subtle verge
#

No, they either expanded/grew in whatever fluid, or they were placed in them like that.

sacred moon
#

huh

#

since they look connected to the floor

#

wait, could they be connected to the floor to be kept preserved, connected via a machine or smth - or at least kept "stable" with a metal bar or so?
And the meat just... somehow grew downwards over the (likely) years of inactivity before we get to B1 with our team?

#

but that'd not quite make sense and fit into sleepers either

subtle verge
#

I think you're looking at it way too deep.

#

It's really nothing more than just a glass jar with fluid meant to preserve the mass for observation.

sacred moon
#

I might be

#

I'm just trying to figure out why the meat looks the way it does

#

hold on

#

this one's just hanging there. It's a solid container content then? Some kind of dry ice or hardened fluid?

unknown.png
dim scroll
#

probably some fluid to preserve it

sacred moon
#

nothing above, and nothing below

unknown.png unknown.png
#

if it was a fluid I'd expect it to have some kind of... anchor

#

or to be drifting

#

rather than perfectly still

harsh saffron
#

possessed by the Hiss

subtle verge
#

Probably the same amniotic fluid we're put under to preserve the biomass.

sacred moon
normal raft
#

You expect too much effort to be put into a small structure

dim scroll
#

Bro

normal raft
#

i'd imagine its floating

sacred moon
sacred moon
dim scroll
#

if they animated everything the game would run at 2 FPS

normal raft
#

Already does

#

in d1

dim scroll
#

epico

sacred moon
#

this one tho
this one is the one I was wondering about earlier, Punkthulhu

unknown.png
#

like, sure, the other one might just be minor details that got lost in making the game bc too much details

#

but this is deliberate

normal raft
#

kinda look like the gunk under cocoons

#

but, not black

subtle verge
#

Dunno. I doubt it's anything significant, but it appears to me that the biomass is attempting to react or normalize itself to the environment.

#

Or it's just anchoring itself.

sacred moon
#

probably welp

normal raft
#

its just his huge dong

lilac island
#

that is, interesting

#

and disgusting

eternal talon
#

what is "KDS" in "KDS spartan vest model I"

finite vine
#

its probably Kovac Defense Service

solar nova
tall anchor
#

or science

#

Depends on how they brand themselves

rapid iron
#

Also btw guys, the dead bodies with split heads I would assume is parasite only no virus? From what I remember the virus doesnt do that and even if it does change ur body, it wouldnt be changing it so drastically as to split your head open. My assumption is that dead people with split head are parasites only, NAM-V only just severely fucks the person over and they die looking relatively normalish. And that it needs both to become a sleeper. And also that in strikers at least that the parasite burrows into the scalp of a person and implants itself there. Without the virus mutations it will die or escape due to incompatibility.

quick grove
#

To much to read

eternal talon
rapid iron
#

I mean to each their own, but it just feels that such drastic changes cant be from a virus

#

most anatomical changes should be from viruses, and morphological changes would be parasites

subtle verge
# rapid iron Also btw guys, the dead bodies with split heads I would assume is parasite only ...

It's hard to say. We know that the virus starts ossification of the cartilage of the spine and menisci, originating from the brain stem, which is partly why some workers called NAM-V 'The Stoops' because it accompanied the bent posture that the ossification causes. It's possible that the parasite uses this as an advantage in some way to make it's own changes, though I'm not entirely sure how since it's not my expertise.

rapid iron
# subtle verge It's hard to say. We know that the virus starts ossification of the cartilage of...

its hard to say since they never explicitly state what the parasite did, but I would assume the bivalve looking head would be from a parasite having dug into the human before. It would also explain those faceless bodies in the floaty tanks, having been humans who were infected with both, had the parasite removed and the wound of the parasite healed, hence the facelessness. Also for the mouth, assuming the tongue IS the parasite which is still a theory ofc, then it would definitely mean that the Parasite is responsible for the mouth. The virus will alter a host, but it won't be making new cavities specifically for a parasite even if it is mutualistic. The virus may develop the teeth and the cheek tissue after the parasite has been rooted in, turning it into a sleeper, which would ALSO explain why the dead bodies found with holes in them have NO teeth or anything, just holes. The parasite went in, but no virus was present to grow the teeth or mouth tissues to make it a mouth, resulting in just a gaping hole.

lilac island
#

wait, actually

#

yeah it makes no sense

#

cause the complex was infected like 500 years before we get there

#

there shouldnt be fresh corpses

hot burrow
#

500 years ago? Wtf. What lore did I miss

dim scroll
#

500 ?

#

what the fuck

#

It's been less than 50 years lol

hot burrow
#

Probably what they meant

lilac island
#

yeah

#

phone corrected 50 to 500 for some reason

subtle verge
#

It's been between 10-15 years.

solar nova
#

Maybe less.

#

Could be there's actually not much downtime.

#

Might not even take that long for things to get really bad, which appears to be the current situation.

#

As little as 1 year after the last non-KSO dies or evacuates is at least a full year for sleepers and the "flesh" to establish themselves, on top of however long it took for things to massively deteriorate to get to that point.

#

If 2053 is the start point, might be as early as 2057 (4 years), although it's very likely we're missing logs from that period that would indicate there is still an official presence remaining.

rapid iron
# lilac island its probably just early infected sleepers that were

early infected sleepers are the dead corpses we find around garganta and destination alpha, they didnt have the virus and hence the parasite left or died since the host did not have a suitable body for its growth. The sleepers in the vats do NOT have the distinct 'mouth' that strikers do, nor do they have the body shape of shooters, but rather strikers. This means that they were either only infected by the virus, or as in certain logs note, were infected with both, reached the early stage of a sleeper, had the parasite removed and the hole made by the parasite was stitched up to see what would happen

quick grove
#

So erm why does the baby striker still look like a human is it because of the human DNA that it comes out like that

rapid iron
#

baby striker looks like human??? Um its got the same mouth as a striker so I'd say that the mother breeds both human foetus AND parasites

quick grove
#

Ah okay

#

Foetus lmao

heady relic
#

anyone know why warden have all these expiditions

dim scroll
#

it finds them funny to do

quick grove
dim scroll
#

we will know

heady relic
#

sad

dim scroll
#

at some point

harsh saffron
#

Never would be pretty disappointing tho 😦

heady relic
#

prob when rundown 11

#

lol

dim scroll
#

It makes no sense to "end" the game with a cliffhanger

harsh saffron
#

GTFO 2 - The Warden Chronicles

quick grove
#

GTFO 2????????

dim scroll
#

gay

quick grove
#

Lmao

harsh saffron
#

great minds think alike

drowsy narwhal
#

We will know with the next rundown !

dim scroll
#

yeah

quick grove
dim scroll
#

see ya in 2023

#

Technically we could play other prisoners

#

That would be an easy way to make the game longer

quick grove
#

Yes but then also milking it so ye

harsh saffron
drowsy narwhal
#

Imagine a rundown in the surface
where we have an infection at our HQ

dim scroll
#

There is no HQ

drowsy narwhal
#

hmm i mean there is some kind of people that send us in right ?

dim scroll
#

Also no sleeper at the surface iirc

#

Almost everyone died

#

No

#

It's an AI

drowsy narwhal
#

Ohhhh damn okay

dim scroll
#

To be more exact, there is an AI named BIOCOM

#

in which the WRDN (Warden) code has been injected into

#

Afterwards it started going rogue & doing things by itself

#

We don't know who, why, when & where the WRDN code has been injected

#

we don't know what's the whole point of it

drowsy narwhal
#

Hmmm okay that's a mystery huh ?

dim scroll
#

yeah

drowsy narwhal
#

And what is Alpha 1 ?

dim scroll
#

an outpost on Red Alpha

#

same as Alpha 2

drowsy narwhal
#

I didn't finished D4 yet but i'm a bit late on the lore huh ! Maybe i should watch a video or something.. or a good summerize of it ( i guess the other rundown had lore too)

dim scroll
#

check the pinned messages

#

there are good summaries

drowsy narwhal
#

ohhh thanks

eternal talon
#

@drowsy narwhal on my phone rn so can't send the current up to date version, but we also have a "for dummies" doc that explains most of the lore in a very brief amount of time

drowsy narwhal
#

Thank you !

eternal talon
#

I wouldn't really trust youtube or reddit with up to date gtfo lore, most of the stuff I've seen are extremely outdated or blatantly false misinformation. Infinite Duck has all the past and current audio/text logs on the wiki,

#

Daraxus has the FAQ, and we also have a number of smaller more specific doccuments.

#

Not including the timeline that attempts to put all the logs in order from 2050 to 2057

harsh saffron
eternal talon
#

Why would you be scared?

harsh saffron
#

Just a joke ^^

subtle verge
eternal talon
#

i dont' use reddit that often

harsh saffron
#

probably a good idea

analog frigate
#

a good idea isn't always what you do though myexpeditionbesofine

harsh saffron
#

A very wise answer

subtle verge
#

A small list of what I'm hoping to get more of in R6ex/R7:

  • Origins of WRDN
  • More about the celestial body
  • Sleeper biology/parasite interaction
  • Topside
  • Jansen confession to tampering with the expedition to kill off Gustavo
#

Really hoping for that last one. :^)

analog frigate
#

yeah that would be nice

subtle verge
#

DIS-V has been spreading hard lately.

dim scroll
#

celestial body :thonk:

south lake
subtle verge
#

Yeppers.

#

Figured I'd call it that to not confuse the term 'Red Alpha' since that was a Mars mission.

pine agate
#

Wait, I've never heard of that Jansen confession pepe_think

#

Where can I read that log?

subtle verge
#

There is no confession -- yet.

#

That was a list of "I hope to see: x"

pine agate
#

Ohh, gotcha.

south lake
#

You know, something I admit I haven't thought of until now.. Given how much of a problem the Cyanobacterial mist is during this Rundown (if it even is cyanobacteria that makes it toxic), I can't help but wonder if the lower depths are going to be more and more flooded with it

#

And if one of the following Rundowns is going to see us trying to activate a kind of primary ventilation system to vent what mist it can out of the lower floors

#

Because given how still the air seems to be down in the tunnels, I wouldn't be surprised if the ventilation system is either straight up not functioning, or not operating well enough to reach the lower floors and disperse that mist

subtle verge
#

There have been missions in the past to activate scrubbers.

#

Even the current rundown.

south lake
#

Fair, though I imagine a complex level dedicated solely to air scrubbing is probably going to have multiple on the same floor

#

I could see the ones we've had to activate being more like secondaries meant to support a 'scrubber hub' (for lack of a better term) and help circulate air throughout the complex

#

Would explain why the higher floors either have minimal mist or no mist at all, while floors lower down would have an abundance of it. My line of thinking though is more along the lines of having such a hub down low where it makes the most difference.

#

Or at least partway down.

#

I'm not entirely sure how placement of facilities like that would work for secure installations that're vertically placed rather than horizontal, so

lavish widget
#

is there 'story' summary of rundown 6 somewhere? I can't hear these door dialogues well without subtitles

#

or just transcriptions of said dialogues would be nice

dim scroll
#

Pinned messages for a summary of the lore in general

lavish widget
#

oh thank you

eternal talon
quick grove
#

Hmmm

lilac island
#

so it has been 500 years since humankind went extinct basically?

analog frigate
#

no

lilac island
#

the timeline is very confusing and makes no sense, then

analog frigate
#

approx 15 years or so since the whole incident

#

what timeline

lilac island
#

straight up not enough time has passed for humankind to have gone completely extinct/then this whole prisoner system to be engineered the way it is

subtle verge
#

I'm not sure where you're getting 500 from. o.O

lilac island
#

unless it was conceptualized before any of it started, for whatever reason

analog frigate
#

the prisoner system was worked out by kovac before the whole thing

#

also extinction doesn't take that long when it's a deadly virus that can infect everyone very quickly

subtle verge
#

We don't know if humanity is extinct or not, we've only done "for fun" calculations. However, NAM-V has an r-naught of 17 (compared to Covid-19s r-naught of 5.7; essentially how many people 1 person will affect), and it's a 100% confirmed death sentence.

analog frigate
#

the black plague killed 1/3 of all of europe in 2 years

#

and it had a lower r-naught (supposedly)

subtle verge
#

So when you have 1 person affecting 17 other people, and those 17 people affecting 17 people each, it's a very small amount of time before a species can collapse.

analog frigate
#

8 cycles of that ^

eternal talon
subtle verge
#

I don't think Dakka needs the entire lore summary for one question.

eternal talon
#

pre-apocalypse contains most of the dates in order though

lilac island
#

oh no I get that

#

it was more the state of the facility combined with the weirdness around how theres actually an antidote(?) in the facility

analog frigate
#

there is no mention of any vaccine or antidote

lilac island
#

disinfection packs

analog frigate
#

they are for infection, not NAM-V

lilac island
#

NAM-V is the infection

#

it could not really be anything else

analog frigate
#

infection is caused by toxic fog, toxic fog can be cleaned off of the skin with disinfection packs

#

a virus would enter the the body and blood system

#

while the fog infection is only on the surface of the person it affects

subtle verge
#

Right. As far as we know, NAM-V and the infection we get in-game are two completely separate entities.

analog frigate
#

yup

spice cloud
#

So is this the place where lore and theory discussions take place?

tall anchor
rapid iron
# analog frigate

as some have pointed out. Probably some airborne fictional strain of cyanobacteria, for fog and Cyanoacetic acid contained in spitters.

#

could also be infused with cretasium and other shit to give it the more 'infectious' quality

rapid iron
lilac island
#

where is that stated exactly

#

there is a THEORY on what it is

#

from what I understand, as some sort of byproduct of the enviromental infection the parasite/NAM-V introduces?

#

but at that point it is essentially either of those things

finite vine
# lilac island where is that stated exactly

there are logs that suggest that NAM-V and the parasite are not the same thing as infection fog. NAM-V is just a virus, and it has its own R-Naught and symptoms.

The infection fog, well, it’s just some kind of fog. NAM-V is not fog. However, it is possible that infection fog is a result of NAM-V. Possibly a byproduct from an organism that has been mutated by NAM-V (for example, spitters). We don’t know where the fog comes from though, or when it started to become a problem, as there are no logs describing the fog.

dim scroll
#

Could be the opposite actually

#

Spitters might have formed because of toxic fog

quick grove
#

Quite interesting

subtle verge
# lilac island there is a THEORY on what it is

Right, what we have is straight theory. However we already know that "everyone is infected," presumably with NAM-V, per the Dauda audio log, and we know that NAM-V is 100% fatal. If the toxic fog had anything to do with NAM-V, I'd believe that we would just die at 100% infection. Now, that is to say that the game mechanic itself stops at 99% and drops over a period of time to (I think) 85%... leaves a lot of whats and ifs for discussion whether it's NAM-V halted by a game mechanic, or if it's something else entirely.

#

And that's more looking at it from a mechanical fairness perspective versus a lore-accurate perspective.

#

It's not at the front of my thought process at the moment, but I still have other ideas as to what it could be, relating to your idea of a byproduct from a sleeper/unknown organism.

dim scroll
#

We could also ask if such toxic fog exists on the surface

#

Since NAM-V is rampant & fog exists in nature, there should be no reason for toxic fog to not exist

#

Yet it's never mentioned in those messages from authorities when instructions are given

lilac island
#

I still dont think NAM-V and the "parasites" are different at all

dim scroll
#

they are different

lilac island
#

the fact that they removed whatever the physical worm thing in sleepers is but the viral load still increased

dim scroll
#

Probably because it's too late

lilac island
#

doesnt exactly mean much

dim scroll
#

the same way Lyme's disease will propagate even if you remove the tick

#

actually it's because you remove it that Lyme's disease propagates

lilac island
#

for now all of this is too much speculation, straight up

dim scroll
#

Everything is a speculation anyway

lilac island
#

until we get some actual lore clarification

#

which they have seemingly been doing recently

dim scroll
#

Can't go in the complex to confirm ourselves 😳

lilac island
finite vine
lilac island
#

the same way the removal of a tumor doesnt necessarily cure you from cancer

#

but I dont even think thats exactly accurate

#

I think the "parasites" are just some sort of infected wildlife from red alpha

#

and the virus has mutated/infected them so long that the two are basically indistinguishable

solar nova
#

Seems more like a symbiotic relationship rn.

#

Until we get more surface logs, it's unclear which (the parasite or the virus) is responsible for sleepers.

spice cloud
#

is the surface world destroyed?

dim scroll
#

no

#

but most of mankind died

spice cloud
#

is there a log of this event

lilac island
#

if mankind is dead then the surface is "destroyed"

#

probably the same kind of infectious "terraforming" happening up there as it is down in the complex

#

unless they just said fuck it and nuked themselves into oblivion

pine agate
#

From what I've read there's no direct info that mankind is dead. They only say "There's no cure for Nam-V yet" and that they've sent a group of researchers to the place where Nam-V started so that they can find it's origins and possibly determine a cure.

lilac island
#

mankind is 100% wiped out

#

the only question is if some holdout managed to isolate from the world and survive

#

and the answer to that is likely no

solar nova
#

It's very unlikely that any disease whatsoever could exterminate humanity.

lilac island
#

what

#

thats, very stupid to say

#

lol

solar nova
#

Not really, that's just pathology.

pine agate
#

Yeah, and there's no log that proves that humanity is dead, unless I'm missing one.

solar nova
#

You can have extremely harmful pathogens, but complete extermination is very improbable.

#

It depends on if sleepers are on the surface or not, just NAM-V is probably not enough.

lilac island
#

NAM-V is essentially airborne super aids that turns its hosts into combat capable, and extremely aggressive pseudo zombies

solar nova
#

We don't know that.

spice cloud
#

some people should survive or be immune

pine agate
#

We don't know that yet.

solar nova
#

We also know that NAM-V has been on the surface before without wiping out humanity.

#

From the Mayan logs.

lilac island
#

we do know

solar nova
#

No, we don't.

lilac island
#

there is nothing else it could be, aside from the "parasite" that is seemingly inextricable from the virus itself

solar nova
#

We can speculate, but there's a significant information void here.

solar nova
#

They are not the same thing.

pine agate
#

Yes, and we won't really know until the next rundown, or possibly the extended.

solar nova
#

It is a carrier, and possibly the source of sleepers.

lilac island
pine agate
#

There's a log about it.

solar nova
lilac island
#

I know the log

solar nova
#

A parasite and a virus are also extremely different things.

lilac island
#

viruses are "parasites" technically speaking

solar nova
#

Even if they're more than symbiotes, we don't have anything that tells us that right now.

solar nova
lilac island
#

"Viruses are small obligate intracellular parasites"

#

they are parasites

spice cloud
#

why does it feel like Garganta its black mesa

lilac island
#

probably a deliberate reference

solar nova
#

Then the log distinctly disagrees with you.

#

"Even after the virus is removed, the virus is still present" is incoherent.

lilac island
#

not necessarily, no

solar nova
#

They're obviously not the same thing.

lilac island
#

like I been sayin

#

the parasite, whatever exactly tf it is

solar nova
#

It's also extremely unusual to refer to a "parasite" and a "virus" as words for the same thing, that's just not how the words are typically used.

lilac island
#

which, tbh, its probably some infected wild life from red alpha, infected with NAM-V

solar nova
#

Okay, a carrier, so why are you belaboring this?

lilac island
#

its hard to explain

solar nova
#

We don't know if it's incidental or a symbiote, and there's more evidence it's as symbiote given the egg/pupae-like structures we see in sleepers bodies.

lilac island
#

NAM-V assimilates cells

solar nova
#

Do we know that?

lilac island
#

the wording on one of the logs seems to say so

#

but idk

#

theres not enough info to say for certain

solar nova
#

Exactly.

#

So why are you arguing?

lilac island
#

because if NAM-V does what I think it does then things change quite a bit

pine agate
#

According to the log we got a while ago (from State of Truth) the virus causes somatic mutations. Where they pass the information to future cells or something like that.

lilac island
#

another bit of evidence for that are the cocoons that we find in the deeper, more infected levels of the complex

solar nova
lilac island
#

I havent read these "mayan logs"

#

mind linking them?

solar nova
#

They're some of the oldest logs in the timeline, hold on...

pine agate
#

There are logs where they say they're finding the creatures down in the complex.

#

Not sure if those are just old workers who got infected with whatever turned them into those monsters, or if they've been there the whole time.

spice cloud
#

or if they are hallucinations

solar nova
# 
Mambo Media Services search query
Keywords: virus, Mayan, Maya, historic, flea
6,724,158 results returned. Filtered by relevance:


“Where did the Mayans go?” - Our Earth magazine 9/25/43

A new theory regarding the sudden demise of Mayan culture has been presented
by Dr. Yvette Hernandez at the Anthropology Forum convention. Dr. Hernandez’s
research posits that the Mayans were almost completely wiped out several
times by an illness they referred to as “Flea Demons”. Though the
interpretation of hieroglyphic stelae leaves much room for interpretation,
Dr. Hernandez believes she has discovered conclusive references to mass
deaths related to the illness on three separate occasions, right up to the
16th century during the occupation of Mayan territory by the Spanish
Conquistadors…
# 
>>EBDT FRAGMENT 01BE1 START
>>ENC: Mambo Media Services news wire
//Translation complete//
A Fractured History
Las Noticias Central, Science Desk
June 3rd 2050

As the cleanup continues after the devastating Merida quake, a team of scientists from the Instituto Geológico are trying to figure out when the Merida faultline appeared, and if the seismic shift was a sign of things to come, or a forgotten history.

Their research has not been limited to the Yucatan. In their quest for answers they have sought archeological societies as far north as the Texas Independence and as far south as Honduras. The answers they were seeking turned up at the Lamanai Archaeological Project in Belize. The team uncovered ancient Mayan records of several earthquakes in the region, with the most recent one being in the mid 13th century. 

Researchers at the Lamanai Project studied scores of tablet inscriptions from their extensive library and discovered reference to a series of catastrophic population declines that occurred in the Yucatan between 800 and 1300 CE. Until the Merida quake, these population fluctuations were assumed to be related to the frequent outbreaks of disease in the region. 

Now, with the context of the newly discovered fault line it seems like the ancient Mayan scribes were giving us more information than we knew. While disease is still almost certainly the reason for the massive drop in Mayan population during the 9th century, the cause of the disease is now much clearer. Earthquakes.

Earthquakes are not a major cause of casualties in the ancient world. Structures were too small and the population were too widely dispersed to inflict mass casualties even from the most powerful of quakes. It is the famine and disease, and the hardship which follows that claims the most number of lives. There have been man¬=AÍ:

>> Encryption checksum mismatch - contact your IT administrator
lilac island
#

so my thinking is that NAM-V kinda replicates the things it infects

solar nova
#

These logs imply that "disease," and at least parasites, seem to have come to the surface related to the Fossil.

#

And they evidently didn't kill everyone despite being devastating.

lilac island
#

the biggest evidence for this is def cocoons

#

where sleepers are shown "growing"

#

in some sort of translucent sacks

solar nova
#

Which matches up with the current consensus in pathology, which, from my understanding, is that disease is particularly unlikely to be an extinction event.

solar nova
lilac island
#

it does, actually

solar nova
#

Even sleepers, if we interpret them as a highly invasive species, wouldn't necessarily be extinction (although it becomes more possible), humanity could adapt.

lilac island
#

if it does that with sleepers, it could do that with the infected forms of whatever red alpha wildlife it apparently "extincted"

pine agate
#

The cocoons might just be part of it's ecosystem down in the complex.

lilac island
#

yes, but

#

that doesnt really disprove that

#

it just means thats how it propogates

pine agate
#

Not sure if that could be replicated up on the surface

solar nova
lilac island
#

from what I've been seeing

solar nova
#

It sounds like you're interpreting NAM-V as some sort of weapon of sleepers, when that is quite literally just a symbiotic relationship.

lilac island
#

NAM-V operating this way is the only kind of sensical explanation of its myriad and weird properties

solar nova
#

It's just a very different way of stating it.

#

We can't know that NAM-V is able to generate sleepers from scratch rn.

#

There's not enough information.

lilac island
#

true

#

there isnt enough info to support literally anything, tbh

#

the lore has only started to come together in any real way in R6

#

and I suspect it will progress significantly in whatever comes next

solar nova
#

Most of this came together R4-R5 tbh, that's when most of the important logs came about.

#

But it's mostly a framework.

lilac island
#

the kraken is a big thing that alot of people ignore

solar nova
#

We have distinctive "parties" but we don't know what any of them do outside of a few minor points.

lilac island
#

is the "kraken" even its official name?

solar nova
#

There are no official names.

lilac island
#

or is the name of the level it features in its actual name

solar nova
#

So, in a sense, yes.

pine agate
#

According to the Wiki.

solar nova
#

Almost no*

lilac island
#

"nemesis" seems like a good name for whatever it is

solar nova
#

Most of the community-handled names have varied nomenclature tbh.

pine agate
#

I like to think the kraken is just part of the planet's wildlife.

solar nova
#

Lots of minor names, and occasionally a few major names (but sometimes just one).

lilac island
#

it seems to release floaters

spice cloud
#

if not part of the planet itself

lilac island
#

it could be their equivalent of a mother

solar nova
#

^

lilac island
#

and theres that common link again

#

similar roles, similar everything

#

and NAM-V is the only connection between them

solar nova
#

Kraken/Nemesis are both popular, similar to how Birther/Mother are both popular names.

#

Well, not necessarily, we have nothing relating NAM-V to the flyers directly.

eternal talon
solar nova
#

Hell, our best connection between NAM-V and sleepers is the resulting "stooping posture" symptom.

eternal talon
solar nova
#

They're probably related though, and there's no way they don't have a common origin unless we get a serious curveball.

lilac island
#

im gonna go off on a limb here and say NAM-V is 100% whats infecting floaters/the kraken

eternal talon
solar nova
#

Again, could be a form the parasite creates.

lilac island
#

the fact that shooters and floaters/nemesis all shoot the same projectiles is another one

solar nova
#

Okay, but we're just back to the same argument as before, which we presumably resolved.

lilac island
#

there isnt even an argument tbh

solar nova
#

Flyers and sleepers are absolutely related, but that doesn't really resolve much.

lilac island
#

theres not enough info to go anywhere

#

so its just talking in circles

solar nova
#

Doesn't really seem like talking to circles from my perspective, your messages to me look like you're linking sporadic points that aren't really connected.

#

I don't know why you'd bring up NAM-V in relation to flyers and sleepers being related to each other.

#

That just doesn't fit in my head.

lilac island
#

not really sporadic, no

#

its just the only points of note that could make a connection at all

solar nova
#

The way I read is that you were introducing the flyer/sleeper connection as new information that would inform our opinion on how NAM-V is associated with sleepers, and that's what I take issue with, that doesn't follow for me.

lilac island
#

link the statement ur confused by

solar nova
#

If that's not how you meant it, then that's just how it came across.

lilac island
solar nova
#

This reads to me like "A is of note, and it informs B" (where A is the sleeper/flyer connection and B is NAM-V's association with sleepers), when I don't think A informs B after all.

similar roles, similar everything
and NAM-V is the only connection between them

This also feels like you're contradicting how you felt before:

I'm gonna go off on a limb here and say NAM-V is 100% what's infecting floaters/the kraken
Contrary to:
there isn't enough info to support literally anything, tbh

lilac island
#

there isnt enough info

#

just observations, no confirmations

#

NAM-V infecting floaters is obvious tho, I kinda take that for a given

spice cloud
#

so lets break it down as far as we know the parasite and the virus both came from the asteroid which is covered with some kind of hard crystal

solar nova
spice cloud
#

as well as having some teleportation capabilities

solar nova
#

Not necessarily, we know many of the artifacts from the Hammerstein Collection have some kind of teleportation function, but I don't think we know how they work.

#

I'd have to check if they're made of Cretasium, I believe they are.

spice cloud
#

but my guess is whatever has this teleportation power came from the asteroid

solar nova
#

It's not an unfair assumption, I suppose.

#

We know from the lab consoles as well that there's seemingly a number of anomalous materials apart from Cretasium, with very little additional information.

spice cloud
#

for me it seems that this asteroid was a bioweapon used for colonizing worlds

solar nova
#

Conceivable, but way into the realm of speculation.

#

Could have just shown up entirely on accident after the sleepers (native or alien) got the better of the Fossil's creators.

lilac island
#

the "fossil"?

solar nova
#

If we allege the Fossil's creators originated from Destination/Planet Alpha, that might be the source of the flyer archetype we witness.

solar nova
lilac island
#

perhaps whatever alien species was fighting against the infection took some drastic measure to try and stop it

#

and failed, of course

solar nova
#

It would also play really well into the cosmic horror angle if it were an accident.

#

There's no rhyme or reason, no greater purpose.

lilac island
#

this game is obviously inspired by dead space

#

so the whole "crater full of infected nastiness" thing makes sense

solar nova
#

They met an unfortunate end, and we're paying the price fighting a mindless scourge for no good reason.

spice cloud
#

allow me to explain my thought process the asteroid is covered in a crystal that keep its occupants save during the voyage and impact to a planet when the impact happens it destroys most native life on a planet and releases the parasite and virus that destroys any remaining life while changing it into something more usable

solar nova
#

Maybe, but doesn't explain why the MWP and data blocks link up to another infested area.

#

The whole situation feels a bit odd.

spice cloud
#

it could be where the teleportation ore was mined

#

but this was just a small idea I had while watching lore videos

solar nova
#

The Stokes logs suggest that they are yet to investigate their physical composition, although they are constructed of "similar materials."

#

Might very well be a log we see later.

spice cloud
solar nova
#

It is made of at least some Cretasium for the outer shell acc. to the 3rd log.

#

That seems to be it.