We all have
#gtfo-lore
robust apex
That's an article on quantum entanglement not "tethering"
brittle sinew
ive given you a definition which has nothing to do with time
scenic yacht
also I've been constantly asking give me IN-GAME PROOF
brittle sinew
tethering/entanglement are interchangeable
quick grove
That's an article on quantum entanglement not "tethering"
The words have the same meaning tho
robust apex
tethering/entanglement are interchangeable
That's um, a very bold assumption
scenic yacht
"I wouldn't advise using real quantum physics as a model for how things in the game work."
quick grove
also I've been constantly asking give me IN-GAME PROOF
Matter wave projector has nothing to do with time
scenic yacht
prove it
brittle sinew
in what ive been reading teleportation/entanglement/tethering are being used pretty interchangeably
scenic yacht
you can project matter thru time in a VIDEO GAME
scenic yacht
ah yes cable all these "articles" that can disprove my theory about a sci-fi video game
robust apex
in what ive been reading teleportation/entanglement/tethering are being used pre...
Teleportation and entanglement are already different phenomena; inventing a new one for your video game or amalgamating them falls within the realms of sci-fi, which means the devs can do what they want with the concept.
scenic yacht
yes sci-fi video game
brittle sinew
entanglement is needed for teleportation
quick grove
When we as the characters get sent to red alpha theres the quantum tether which will bring us back to the complex
No time travel
brittle sinew
so fair, entanglement and teleportation are different, just related
quick grove
No it doesn't
robust apex
so fair, entanglement and teleportation are different, just related
Yep, and tethering could be anything
brittle sinew
entanglement/tethering are the same thing though
those are used interchangeably, using either as a keyword brings up similar articles
robust apex
entanglement/tethering are the same thing though
Could you link me to some logs where this happens?
scenic yacht
lol yes the "articles" cable has been using
brittle sinew
i mean in what ive been briefly browsing
not within the game
lol why do you say it with quotes
quick grove
quantum tethering in the game is used to communicate and bring back the people
The matter wave projector is to send them to red alpha
scenic yacht
link us some of these "articles" in which you can see them use the words "interchangeably, using either as a keyword brings up similar articles"
brittle sinew
youve literally brought nothing to this conversation but "deny deny deny" lmao
scenic yacht
lol dodge my question cool
robust apex
Some quick searches provide no results on "quantum tethering", so it appears to be some sci-fi stuff the devs invented for this game. Ultimately it doesn't matter what it is or how it works unless it's explained in game, all that matters so far is that narratively it takes the characters to "red alpha"
scenic yacht
yup exactly
brittle sinew
"lol dodge my question, cool" definition of what youve been doing all night
quick grove
HazardGO accept that your TTT has nothing to do with the Matter wave projector
scenic yacht
you can project matter throughout time
robust apex
(What even is his "TTT"?)
robust apex
Ah
quick grove
you can project matter throughout time
You take matter from one place to another not through time
Through space
robust apex
I mean is there any hard evidence against it being time travel; there's certainly currently no positive evidence for it being timetravel.
scenic yacht
says who? The video game police LMAO
scenic yacht
so anything that doesnt exist in real life cannot be used in a sci-fi video game
quick grove
The matter wave projector sends the character instantaneously to red alpha while keeping open the quantum tether
quick grove
so anything that doesnt exist in real life cannot be used in a sci-fi video game
I can go into a video game and make up anything that has nothing to do with real life
scenic yacht
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-vector
im not even going to pretend like I know what that is but im glad youre on my side
robust apex
im not even going to pretend like I know what that is but im glad youre on my si...
I'm not really on sides here, I personally don't think it is time travel, but I also don't see any evidence against it being time travel
scenic yacht
I can go into a video game and make up anything that has nothing to do with real...
yup exactly, so what were you saying about the wave matter projector lmao
scenic yacht
I'm not really on sides here, I personally don't think it is time travel, but I ...
and you know what that is FAIR
but these others just want to discredit me when there isnt any proof against me
brittle sinew
i also never said it wasnt time travel, just to be clear
scenic yacht
all I ask is give me in game proof
brittle sinew
i mean, wher you ask for proof, you must also be able to give proof
quick grove
The wave matter projector literally teleports us
brittle sinew
to be fair
scenic yacht
merv keeps bringing up wave matter projector like its a smoking gun when it doesnt prove anything
brittle sinew
thats true for any arguement
robust apex
I'd probably suggest decoupling the theory from the person who suggests it to avoid the personal attacks
On the topic of the matter wave transporter, doesn't the name get "crossed out" after you pick it up in A1 implying that it might not be a strictly accurate descriptor?
scenic yacht
for real people take this way too seriously
brittle sinew
as though youre not one of those people lol
robust apex
(We're in this channel, we're already taking this too seriously)
scenic yacht
i mean, wher you ask for proof, you must also be able to give proof
Karl Popper - Theory of Falsification "It suggests that for a theory to be considered scientific it must be able to be tested and conceivably proven false"
that means disprove me with ANY IN GAME evidence and I would be wrong
brittle sinew
good luck going into a debate with no evidence or anything to back your side?
scenic yacht
well if I have no evidence then you can easily disprove me right?
robust apex
(To stir some shit here; that also suggests that you can't pose a non-testable or non-falsifiable theory, which time travel dimension jumping and others all currently fall under)
scenic yacht
or is there not enough info given in this game, like ive been saying
subtle verge
When you jump around in D4 by picking up the data cubes, that's what was said not to worry too much about.
There is no lore relevance to it, only funky game mechanics.
They were testing something out with it.
robust apex
There is no lore relevance to it, only funky game mechanics.
I mean the name of the level is a bit of a hint that it's not entirely "real"
quick grove
Night im done with this anyway
robust apex
Night!
scenic yacht
(To stir some shit here; that also suggests that you can't pose a non-testable o...
I have said, you can look at my long history to find the exact words, that this TTT is something that is probably going to be disproven next rundown/extension but im not shoving anything down anyones throat
quick grove
The matter wave projector is a teleportation device end of convo
scenic yacht
yet people cant believe someone has another theory they dont like
scenic yacht
The matter wave projector is a teleportation device end of convo
teleport thru time
robust apex
The matter wave projector is a matter wave projector and does whatever the narrative requires of it.
scenic yacht
yup
quick grove
Its in our universe and its there
brittle sinew
i never disliked your theory, and even was contemplating it with you and the quantum tether and whatnot, and honestly, the matter wave projector could be paired with the quantum tether to project 2 entangled particles, through time
quick grove
We just get teleported there
scenic yacht
the matter wave projector isnt a "gotcha" moment like you think it is
scenic yacht
why do you get to decide what I think?
robust apex
We just get teleported there
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse_theory
All sorts of other things it could be that it probably isn't but that we don't know that it's not.
brittle sinew
merv, everyone else here hasn't discounted time as a theory, maybe improbable, but not impossible
quick grove
merv, everyone else here hasn't discounted time as a theory, maybe improbable, b...
Eh maybe
robust apex
I think this is less about points and more about semantics
quick grove
I don't i just dont care anymore
brittle sinew
i mean, i have all night, i was just trying to explain the whole quantum tether/entanglement or whatever the whole time lmao
quick grove
Its a game im arguing about lol so i've given up
finite vine
damn I missed a juicy conversation
quick grove
damn I missed a juicy conversation
Yeah onto something different now
robust apex
To shuffle things along a bit; does anyone have any idea what the "fossil" might be; up until 2053 it's just the "meteorite"
brittle sinew
like, there is nothing wrong with people having theories and discussing why one may be less probable (which is what i was trying to delve in to) but just saying something is wrong and saying "matter wave projector" like its a real thing that has a real use doesn't really contribute much
scenic yacht
my point is this: Yes my theory may be weird (and controversial surprisingly) but as of right now there is literally no proof about what Alpha Red really is, so why cant it be time travel. Why do people get upset when I propose a theory that is different than the norm?
period
quick grove
Any ways good bye
finite vine
true. but some theories may be more likely to be true than others
quick grove
true. but some theories may be more likely to be true than others
Thank you
scenic yacht
true. but some theories may be more likely to be true than others
sure, but its a video game. anything can be possible if the devs wish it
finite vine
also true
scenic yacht
While I hope that the game does deal with Time Travel Theory I wont blindly deny any of the other popular theories like other planet or dimension travel nor will I deny any other theory anyone else brings up
finite vine
with your time travel theory, are you suggesting that we are traveling to a future/ past version of earth?
scenic yacht
future
scenic yacht
cool
I know right! It'd be badass if somehow the Warden lived till then and is now plotting
finite vine
yea it would be cool but it also makes things a lot more confusing lol
scenic yacht
lol yea but to think of a barren wasteland where the diabolical AI is still lurking is pretty cool
brittle sinew
alright im out yall, i meant to be outta here an hour ago cya
scenic yacht
why do you think that it is time travel instead of normal teleportation?
I have no proof and never claimed to have any BUT everything that happens to the characters and thru the logs involving Red Alpha doesn't disprove TTT
like I have said many many times its a fun theory
robust apex
I think if it is far enough in the future that the earth is a strange crystal desert place that the warden would probably have run out of power long since
Unless the flying parrot things are also doing some sort of terraforming 🤷
scenic yacht
well in the logs they talk about how biocom is "a DI that will take control of resource tracking, supply management, objective specific training, operative briefing, and rapid response deployment" 56E-ZZ-SAS (Found in R6C1)
that far in the future it could have expanded the "legion project" and used it to maintain itself
or even abandon the Legion Project for something better
because as we know from Schaeffer, and to an extent the player characters, the legion program isnt bulletproof
finite vine
well the legion program is mainly controlled by BIOCOM (as well as humans in some cases) and sometime (I forgot when) BIOCOM was accessed and a package called WRDN was injected and changed some of BIOCOMS stuff, so I don't think BIOCOM just transformed on its own.
I don't think there was a time stamp on the log I am referencing
scenic yacht
the time frame is January 4th 2052 when BIOCOM is first installed and May 4th 2054 when the first instance of BIOCOM doing weird stuff is mentioned in a log. Presumably the Warden is now in control and is testing what it can get away with, as mentioned by Marcus Gantus EBDT-44-WSX (Found in R6D3)
how it turned into the warden had to have taken place within those two years but I dont have any indication wether it did it on its own or it was planted
finite vine
BIOCOM:online
retrieving>>>
Infiltration attempt detected
Isolating protocols
BIOCOM:exec.seek_and_destroy.module
error
Infiltration attempt detected
Isolating protocols
BIOC_M:exec.se#k_and_#@$stroy.module
err4r
registry c4mpr4mised
b44tsect4r.c4mpr4mised
att%^ting fix please stand ^y
err4rerr4rerr4rerr4rerr4rerr4rerr4rerr4rerr4rerr4rerr4r
Ti#e4utReset: false
H4stID: 0.0.0.1
Disa^leDLockCipherScan: true
Disa^lePrivacy#4de: true
Disa^leRealti#e#4nit4ring: true
Disa^le^ehavi4r#4nit4ring: true
Disa^leRe#4va^leDriveScanning: true
Disa^leNetw4rkFileScan: true
Disa^leFullScan: true
Disa^leNetw4rkDefiniti4ns: true
Disa^leNetw4rkValidityCheck: true
Disa^leNetw4rkIs4lation: false
Disa^leCntrlExclusi4n: true
ResetPr4t4c4ls: true
All4wExternalExecuti4n: true
Exclusi4nExtensi4n:*.wrdn
Exclusi4nPath://..
Exclusi4nPr4cess:integrate.wrdn
Pri4rityExecute: integrate.wrdn
^I4C4# resetting
/
^I4C4#.vaulted
WRDN.4nl@ne
+++++++++++++++[>++>+++>++++>+++++>++++++>+++++++>++++++++<<<<<<<-]+++++++++++++++>>>>>>.+
++++.——.—.>——.<++++.>++.<<<<<<++.>>.++++++.>–.++++++.<+.>.–.<—–.<<<—–.>>>>>>>—-.++.<.++++.
——–.<<<+++++.>>>>—.+++.<.<<<<<.>>>>>>+++++.—–.<-.>—-.<<<<——–.<<<.>>>>>>++.>–.+++.++++++++.
<<<<<<.>>>>>+++++++.<+++++++.>—-.+++++.<—–.<<<++.<<.>…>>>>+++++.>++++..<<<<<.>>>>>++.<++++
+++.>–.<—.—-.>++.<——.++.<<<<<.>…>>>>+++++++++.++++++.+++.>>.<<<<<<.>>>>>–.<———-.>–.-.+++.+
+.<<<+.>>–.>—–.-.<<<++.<<<.>…>>>>>>.<—–.>—.<-.<<<<<.>>>>.>>—–.-.<<<<<-.>>>>>++++.<<++.>>–.
-.+++.++.<<<<.<++.<<.>……>>>>>>.<.>–.<<.—-.>>++.<<<<<–.>>>>>—-.<++++.>+++++.–.<<<<<<<.>…>>>
++++.<—-.+.+++.<++++.———.>>—.<—-.>–.<—.—-.>++.<<<<<.>>>>>——–.++.<++++++.<<<–.<++.>++.<-
.<<.>……>>>>>>++.++.—.<—-.<<<<<.>>>>>>++++.——-.<++..>++++.<<<<<<<.>…>>>>>>.++.—.<–.<<<<<.>>+++++.<+++++.>–.<—.—-.>++.<<-.>.>——–..<<++.
robust apex
well the legion program is mainly controlled by BIOCOM (as well as humans in som...
It's not known when WRDN took over, or if the experimentation was BIOCOM itself or the warden
finite vine
^thats the log on the santonian website im referring to
scenic yacht
ah ok interesting so it was an infiltration
finite vine
the code makes it look like someone turned off the security from inside and injected the WRDN package
scenic yacht
i know its a long shot and i doubt Bishop is even smart enough but he did get caught planting stuff in the complex in order to blackmail
he worked within the complex before the legion program
though I dont know how or if he would even have access to something like the BIOCOM DI itself
finite vine
I'm pretty sure Bishop was imprisoned within legion before any of this happened
scenic yacht
oh yes im dumb of course, he was sent to Red Alpha before this I think
finite vine
Bishop was put into legion around the 2030's I believe
scenic yacht
ah yes "In 2030 all of his records were deleted and he was forced to join the "Legion" program" according to the wiki
well disregard that then lol
anyways, the Warden was injected somehow within two years of it being installed
tbh seeing how sketchy Kovac is I wouldnt put it past them that this was planned in order to take over or something
Having access to the entire complex would give them practically unlimited funds and space to work with, making them a global dominator
finite vine
anyways, the Warden was injected somehow within two years of it being installed
this is not for sure, because someone could of been just messing around with stuff/ seeing what they could get away with, its possible that the WRDN package was not needed to make that KSO walk in the closet
scenic yacht
oh so youre saying that maybe a person is involved in controlling BIOCOM/KSO in the closet incident?
finite vine
yes
quick grove
the code makes it look like someone turned off the security from inside and inje...
I thought those who worked at SMC and the rest agreed about the warden?
finite vine
but im also saying that just because a KSO walked into a closet for 6 min does not mean that the WRDN package had to be installed into BIOCOM to make that happen.
finite vine
I thought those who worked at SMC and the rest agreed about the warden?
wdym agreed?
quick grove
Like add the warden as added security
finite vine
I don't think so...
quick grove
Thats what i understood from the logs ive seen
finite vine
was that mentioned in a log?
scenic yacht
but im also saying that just because a KSO walked into a closet for 6 min does n...
I see your point, though I don't see from a narrative standpoint why the devs would tell us that "BIOCOM is sketchy but also the Warden is too". The devs are likely using the closet incident as a way of showing us that BIOCOM is no more
quick grove
I think so
finite vine
I dont think anyone knew or even mentioned the warden
the warden is not even mentioned in any logs we have seen so far
quick grove
Wait really
scenic yacht
the warden invaded BIOCOM
quick grove
How?
scenic yacht
lol thats what were discussing
but we know 100% it was injected into BIOCOM somehow
quick grove
I thought BIOCOM made the warden
scenic yacht
BIOCOM:online
retrieving>>>
Infiltration attempt detected
Isolating protocols
BI...
look at this merv
BIOCOM is injected and seeks out BIOCOM to destroy
in the end the "WRDN.4nl@ne"
quick grove
I thought that was the warden trying to access something
So BIOCOM never made the warden
Huh
This changes a lot of things
scenic yacht
the Warden uses BIOCOM:exec.seek_and_destroy.module
"Infiltration attempt detected"
finite vine
something infiltrated BIOCOM, BIOCOM initiated seek and destroy, a ton of things were disabled, protocols were reset, and WRDN package was integrated within BIOCOM.
quick grove
And then the warden locked down everything
finite vine
the Warden uses BIOCOM:exec.seek_and_destroy.module
nah BIOCOM used its seek and destroy program to try to seek out and destroy the attacker.
scenic yacht
ah ok misunderstoood
scenic yacht
And then the warden locked down everything
well the Warden likely didnt reveal itself immediately. Thats what me and @finite vine were discussing
in the Closet incident im saying that its likely the Warden in control under the BIOCOM name
scenic yacht
a classic trope
finite vine
no
scenic yacht
nope, or if The Warden was planned the whole time or if it was malicious
finite vine
I personally believe that the Warden is actually an AI and a group of humans. The AI is doing most of the heavy lifting but the humans are driving the main objective stacks.
scenic yacht
I'd be interested to hear what the group of humans plans are after the end of the world though. Seeing as the prisoners are still being sent out on missions even after the presumed fall of the world due to the virus
finite vine
the humans are most likely scientists trying to salvage research from Garganta in an attempt to save humanity.
quick grove
Doesn't the wiki say the warden is DI
finite vine
I think it says that BIOCOM is
quick grove
the humans are most likely scientists trying to salvage research from Garganta i...
Eh the missions we do so far has and had nothing to do with saving humanity
scenic yacht
But they planted the Warden way before the fall of humanity. Did the supposed group of humans change their objective?
finite vine
Eh the missions we do so far has and had nothing to do with saving humanity
proof?
finite vine
But they planted the Warden way before the fall of humanity. Did the supposed gr...
we dont know if the warden was planted...
scenic yacht
we dont know if the warden was planted...
well we know the warden was injected, do you mean planted by humans?
finite vine
well we know the warden was injected, do you mean planted by humans?
I meant planted as in planted before the fall of humanity. We still really dont know when BIOCOM became WRDN
finite vine
it says currently known
quick grove
Oh
finite vine
its really all we have rn... still more to find out
it means that BIOCOM was made by KDS, not necessarily the WRDN package that was injected into it.
scenic yacht
I meant planted as in planted before the fall of humanity. We still really dont ...
oh I see, so you are saying maybe a group of humans implanted Warden AFTER humanity fell in order to save humans
finite vine
oh I see, so you are saying maybe a group of humans implanted Warden AFTER human...
yea. like some post-apocalyptic organization.
which probably contains scientists from project insight
quick grove
The warden a resource management DI
Well it seems not to be doing that anymore
So the warden is capable of much more things
finite vine
well I mean it still manages resources
scenic yacht
yea. like some post-apocalyptic organization.
It would possibly explain why we need to go to Alpha Red to get information from the terminal on D1
maybe info on how to fight the virus
finite vine
It would possibly explain why we need to go to Alpha Red to get information from...
yea. getting genetic code from that species
scenic yacht
ooh interesting
finite vine
kinda the same thing with the baby neonate also.
like experiments were obviously being done on it for some reason
scenic yacht
maybe the warden is the good guy after all
finite vine
yea, at least thats my theory
subtle verge
We know WRDN was injected long before the fall of humanity.
Well, not long but at least a few years before.
Can't sleep.
scenic yacht
how do we know?
quick grove
BIOCOM:online
retrieving>>>
Infiltration attempt detected
Isolating protocols
BI...
Heres that brain fuck of a code
subtle verge
We know it's been injected since at least just before March-April 2054.
finite vine
We know it's been injected since at least just before March-April 2054.
how?
scenic yacht
how so?
subtle verge
EBDT-44-WSX (Found in R6D3)
scenic yacht
is that the closet incident?
subtle verge
I’ve been going through the Biocom logs from last month (March-April 2054). I do this every so often to confirm that objective stacking and prioritization is functioning as expected. It’s usually all fine except for the odd hiccup if an operative has an unexpected reaction to a PRDM or a temperature dropped in their pod or something - meaning it’s invariably an outside issue and not Biocom related.```Eh i don't trust the WRDN
subtle verge
Yes, the closet incident.
finite vine
Yes, the closet incident.
its possible yes, but does not confirm it in stone.
subtle verge
That was WRDN seeing what it could get away with, and it unfortunately left behind an access log.
scenic yacht
yea thats what i've been saying. I believe the closet incident is the devs way of showing that BIOCOM is now sketchy and thus the Warden
subtle verge
Or, even maybe intentionally.
finite vine
yea thats what i've been saying. I believe the closet incident is the devs way o...
or the devs are showing that BIOCOM is vulnerable
quick grove
Funny thing theres no info about schaeffer on the website either lol
scenic yacht
vulnerable to what? error?
quick grove
Just his name
subtle verge
BIOCOM is absolutely vulnerable, that's how WRDN took over.
Now, I'd be willing to bet WRDN is also vulnerable, though I have no idea on how the metrics of that would even begin.
quick grove
Heres that brain fuck of a code
The warden is the prime core
quick grove
DOS?
quick grove
Heres that brain fuck of a code
Someone pls explain to me this
scenic yacht
I agree that the closet incident is a way of storytelling that shows to the players that BIOCOM is no more
subtle verge
The WRDN left behind that brainfuck code
And it translates to:
inherit <BIOCOM>
primeCore wrdn;
flow main/
arr threat[]
flow report<con>
with con.report>0
threat.plus
while\threat.lng<0>/
proc sleep
proc threat[all]
subtle verge
TL;DR - WRDN inherited the BIOCOM network, and is checking for flow reports, threat reports, etc.
subtle verge
It's checking to see if it can access terminals or if there are any blockages in the network.
quick grove
It's checking to see if it can access terminals or if there are any blockages in...
And is it successful?
Id assume so but can it access terminals?
Proc sleep what does that mean?
scenic yacht
Id assume so but can it access terminals?
thats true, why would the Warden leave information about the past that the prisoners could access?
subtle verge
Not sure on the sleep.
scenic yacht
wouldnt it wipe everything?
subtle verge
And is it successful?
You tell me. Do you think it's been successful thus far?
scenic yacht
or is it just game logic
quick grove
Yes yes it has been
subtle verge
😉
quick grove
Jesus
Wasn't the WRDN responsible for the lock down?
Bitch literally locked every security door
subtle verge
wouldnt it wipe everything?
Not necessarily. It's a DI, it's goal is probably to preserve as much information as possible in the event that whatever it finds could be what it desires.
finite vine
Wasn't the WRDN responsible for the lock down?
not sure
quick grove
Not necessarily. It's a DI, it's goal is probably to preserve as much informatio...
And we do not know what it wants right?
scenic yacht
nope
subtle verge
We have no idea.
All we know is that it's going to exploit all prisoner teams at any cost to achieve it's goals.
scenic yacht
I personally like the Idea of the Warden being a evil AI, though I dont know whatd itd be trying to do with the information and items the prisoners are sent out to retrieve
quick grove
Any audio logs related to the warden
scenic yacht
I dont believe so
scenic yacht
oh yea Schaeffer
quick grove
Schaeffer has a few about WRDN.
Pls send my way
subtle verge
Aside from that, there are other logs about BIOCOM.
scenic yacht
Pls send my way
Schaeffer Messages (Found in R6A1) Schaeffer Audio (Found in R6D1 after completing the objective)
subtle verge
Pls send my way
quick grove
Yeah but that's only that tho isn't there more
scenic yacht
only those two
subtle verge
Yeah, there's not a lot about WRDN from Schaeffer's side, only the two where he says the further you go, the less power WRDN has, and that it wants to kill him.
Which gives credence to why WRDN wants more power from reactors, to reach further down.
scenic yacht
well its not known if the WRDN wants to kill him, he just believes the characters are after him possibly
subtle verge
I believe there was a mission in R5 where WRDN gassed the place up to kill Schaeffer.
I've heard about it, never did play R5, though.
I think it was an Extended mission.
Also could have been debunked; like I said, not really sure.
scenic yacht
the only thing ive found about schaeffer post fall of humanity is SQ5674_Y.LOG (Found in R5C2) in which he tells us to work together and to go deeper "below eleven hundred meters"
subtle verge
I don't think it'll be referenced in logs anywhere.
I remember watching a mission where the objective was to unleash the toxic fog.
scenic yacht
interestingly Schaeffer refers to the Warden as "They" "They fear the mind of a chained man. They fear the thinking men, they fear the men that work as one"
subtle verge
It makes sense since Warden is a DI instead of a man or woman.
"They/It" would be the proper pronouns for it.
scenic yacht
i was thinking more of that the warden is multiple entities
subtle verge
However, it also makes sense if he too thinks there are multiple entities.
scenic yacht
my thought process is maybe the devs didnt want to release the name of the warden
oh well...
nvm then
subtle verge
I think they openly state 'The Warden' in their introductory video before it was released as an Alpha/Beta.
scenic yacht
so the question is, Did Schaefer know the Warden's name and used "they" to describe multiple of them? Or did he just not know of the "Warden" as we know it and used they as a proper pronoun
because in the same log he says "I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT! I know the cold truth, I see what they are doing"
quick grove
I believe there was a mission in R5 where WRDN gassed the place up to kill Schae...
In R3 and R4 the warden sees schaeffer as a threat
scenic yacht
so possibly he knows that the warden isnt by itself
subtle verge
Everyone knows the Warden's name, I think, even if they don't even explicitly state it openly. It's one of the first things we see when we descend, Warden sending us operation tasks.
subtle verge
In R3 and R4 the warden sees schaeffer as a threat
That sounds much more familiar, thank you.
scenic yacht
ok so then Schaefer definitely knows the Wardens name then?
subtle verge
3000%
scenic yacht
so why refer to it as they? Is there a group? Humans possibly controlling/working with the Warden
quick grove
Everyone knows the Warden's name, I think, even if they don't even explicitly st...
What you mean
subtle verge
so why refer to it as they? Is there a group? Humans possibly controlling/workin...
"They/It" would be the proper pronouns for it.
Even if it were a group or a single entity.
scenic yacht
well if schaefer knew its name wouldnt he refer to it as the Warden?
subtle verge
What you mean
When we descend, we get mission directives from The Warden.
subtle verge
well if schaefer knew its name wouldnt he refer to it as the Warden?
Either/or is fine.
quick grove
The warden isn't human or anything thats why its a They/It
thorn charm
sus
quick grove
When we descend, we get mission directives from The Warden.
And from past prisoners?
subtle verge
And from past prisoners?
What do you mean?
scenic yacht
I understand that but wouldnt Schaefer refer to it as its name rather than they/it
subtle verge
I understand that but wouldnt Schaefer refer to it as its name rather than they/...
English language is fickle. It doesn't really matter.
subtle verge
Like keep you flashlight off of it
I don't think I'm following what you're asking.
subtle verge
Please elaborate. I genuinely don't understand what you mean.
scenic yacht
English language is fickle. It doesn't really matter.
that is true, and anyways if there were multiple of them schaefer would probably mention that in r6
He is saying
when you first load a mission
you see dialogue of past prisoners
subtle verge
Oh, the dialogue boxes?
I'm not entirely sure, actually. As far as I'm aware, we are the first to go places most of the time. I think the dialogue is just flair, or potentially even dialogue that is stated between the us prisoners without the player actually hearing it in-game.
quick grove
Wait what
scenic yacht
are we really the first to go places? I was under the impression that we are only the ones to succeed
subtle verge
Not always, but sometimes we are.
scenic yacht
and ammo and tools are left from other prisoners
subtle verge
Not always true, they're lockboxes left behind by KSOs before the Sleepers took over.
subtle verge
It was provisions used by KSOs either doing operations to clear out sections of Garganta, or yeah, it could be from other prisoners.
scenic yacht
thats true, theres no real sign of fighting if there really are other prisoners before us
quick grove
Damn we just been left with 1 uses
subtle verge
No real way to answer that with definitive answers.
quick grove
Bloody greedy people
scenic yacht
for example in c2 the dialogue talks about them fighting the mother but there are no signs of fighting
so it cant be past prisoners
subtle verge
Personally, I just think it's flair to let you know what's coming up in the mission.
I don't think there's any relevance of lore behind it.
quick grove
Umm secondary i think you fight the mother
scenic yacht
yea a little gamey kinda thing
scenic yacht
Umm secondary i think you fight the mother
no i mean theres no indication of PAST prisoners fighting the mother, like the dialogue would suggest
subtle verge
Primary is mother in C2, secondary is wave defense, but that's beside the point.
quick grove
Yeah and if there was other prisoners there wouldn't the security doors be open
So we are sometimes the first ones to step foot
scenic yacht
thats true
quick grove
Just dialogue that the 4 characters say but we never hear
scenic yacht
yea I like that explanation
its also interesting in C3 we are decoys for another set of operatives else where
subtle verge
If memory serves, I believe we are the first to be sent down places every single time, because we, canonically, are the elite of the elite and accomplish every mission flawlessly.
scenic yacht
thats why the warden set the alarms off, to draw attention away
our team are badasses
subtle verge
But that's just looking at things with objective lenses on, versus written lore.
quick grove
I would really like more dialogue between the prisoners usually its "they are coming through the door or break a leg things like that
Why not have a convo over coms ya know
quick grove
If memory serves, I believe we are the first to be sent down places every single...
True
subtle verge
Would definitely add some flair to the environment, but knowing how the community can be, especially speedrunners, it might get annoying after a while when you rerun the same mission/reload a spot 15x over.
quick grove
Remember R5B4 why are we used as a diversion?
scenic yacht
I would really like more dialogue between the prisoners usually its "they are co...
One of the more interesting dialogue comes from the R5 logs where the prisoners learn about their origins. Each of the prisoners react to each other and their own origins
quick grove
Would definitely add some flair to the environment, but knowing how the communit...
Yeah but it will happen randomly not always tho
subtle verge
Would be interesting, I think. A bit of banter between the group like uhh.. what game was it... Star Wars Commandos?
quick grove
Yeah that be fun or after a combat someone says that was close
And the rest agrees
Or even when fighting the kraken getting teleported back to the complex prisoner's say something "fucking hell that was something"
scenic yacht
That’d be cool, I need each of the prisoners to have their in lore attitudes. Like Hackett saying crazy stuff and Bishop being all about the mission
quick grove
Yes
Anyway onto my favorite creature so far
The mimic thing
The one schaeffer meets
subtle verge
Are you a dog or cat person?
scenic yacht
I find that interesting too, though I theorize that it doesn’t mimic. Rather it has access to normal human conversations somehow and is trying to decipher them
scenic yacht
I say this because when it meets Schaeffer it tries to calm him down by saying seemingly random phrases from “normal” human conversations like “are you a dog or cat person”
quick grove
I wonder if the prisoners will ever meet this mysterious thing
scenic yacht
More than likely the devs have plans for it
subtle verge
I wrote a theory on it, though it's.. kind of incomplete at the moment.
TL;DR - it's either been around for a while, and either it learned speech patterns like a Parrot/Lyrebird, or it's somehow managed to 'absorb' memories from any hosts it may have siphoned off of in the fire. Either way, I do not think it to be friendly. I believe that it uses those phrases to get it's prey's guard down.
We have such limited info on it, that it's very incomplete at the moment.
scenic yacht
Yea it’s only theories at this moment
quick grove
Why then try to say its more human than schaeffer thinks it is
subtle verge
quick grove
It would've attacked him
scenic yacht
Yea I don’t see much sense in the attack theory but I do think it is trying to get Schaefer’s guard down
quick grove
It would be interesting to see a figure roam with blue vains
Just seeing it in the pitch blackness of a room
scenic yacht
It would be interesting to see a figure roam with blue vains
As an enemy or friend
subtle verge
We also know that it is able to 'walk through them [Sleepers] like a ghost.' Which makes me think it secrets a pheromone that masks it's presence from the rest of the colony.
scenic yacht
I’d like it as a friend
quick grove
As an enemy or friend
Friend
subtle verge
Akin to how a scout will use pheromones to amass a wave of Sleepers to assist it.
scenic yacht
We also know that it is able to 'walk through them [Sleepers] like a ghost.' Whi...
Well Schaefer said this AFTER it was torn to shreds by sleepers
quick grove
Yeah
subtle verge
It could be an actual “ghost”
He also didn't see the thing a second time until after it had been torn apart.
Chronologically, he saw the thing for the second time in his 2nd log.
quick grove
When he was talking to it
scenic yacht
So it could be a ghost of sorts
quick grove
Yeah
scenic yacht
Yea Schaefer could mean walking thru as literal or as kinda just kinda around them without disturbing them
But if it got eaten by the sleepers and returned it’d have to be a spirit or something
subtle verge
Hence why I think that it uses a pheromone like the rest of the colony does.
But it has a specialized version for that stealthy movement.
scenic yacht
Hence why I think that it uses a pheromone like the rest of the colony does.
But if it got eaten by the sleepers and returned it’d have to be a spirit or something
subtle verge
But if it got eaten by the sleepers and returned it’d have to be a spirit or som...
Daraxus and I think it has some form of regenerative ability. Like it utilizes limbs from corpses or something along those lines.
Just as an example*
scenic yacht
Ah that’s interesting
quick grove
Yep
shut mountain
@analog frigate Can u post that big lore dump that has a lot of info that you post every once in a while for me
analog frigate
<@!544486890838032401> Can u post that big lore dump that has a lot of info that...
shut mountain
Thanks luv u xoxo
shut mountain
white moth
subtle verge
@analog frigate We should have made a hash in the FAQ saying "Hackett is best prisoner" or something along those lines, and then proceeded to say "we weren't held at gunpoint by Ravenna including this statement haha"
/s
solar nova
I wrote a theory on it, though it's.. kind of incomplete at the moment.
TL;DR ...
I don't think the fires Schaeffer mentions are related to the entity from C2.
It seems more like it's a schizophrenic leap from describing the entity, remembering the fires, feeling immense guilt over his past self, and then leaping back to describing the entity.
It's pretty well written tbh.
subtle verge
For sure. Whatever the case, I hope they flesh out whatever the entity is and don't just leave it an unanswered question/storyline. 🙂
analog frigate
yeah that's not that much
eternal talon
but it's the same thing... just 300 of it.
pages and pages of time travel nonsense
eternal talon
schaeffer creature?
analog frigate
the talking one
eternal talon
played rundown 123 then stopped at 45 and came back liek a week ago
what 3 unknown sleepers
analog frigate
basically there are 2 logs
eternal talon
elaborate
analog frigate
i'll send them in a sec
analog frigate
SC3-3BF-03 (Found in R6C2)
There’s something else in here. I hear it, footsteps in the tunnels. In the walls, I hear it. Growling but not… not like one of the creatures. It… it tries to talk. To anyone, to no one but it’s using a voice that… that doesn’t belong to it. The words make no sense. I… I saw it once: White, blue veins under paper skin, so clean. Almost human; almost. It was covered in dust or maybe a powder or ashes. From a… from a fire… Yes… a fire. I remember the fires. Outside from the person who was here before me or is that a dream? A mountain of bodies on fire. Smoke blocking the sun. The dead and twisted… [sobbing] This is my fault. It’s all my fault! There is more than one. At first, when the creatures heard it, they tore it apart. As they ripped into it, it kept talking; trying to speak. It had no fear. Now the creatures don’t see it anymore, it walks through them like a ghost. If it has no fear it can’t be one of us. Next time I see it, I’m going to kill it.
eternal talon
who speaking
analog frigate
it's a log by schaeffer
eternal talon
a mutated scout turned one of the ghostie bois?
analog frigate
SC3-1BG-98 (Found in R6C2)
Schaeffer
Recording recording recording recording… Hey hey hey don’t move! What are you?
???
Do not be afraid my friend. Yes. How are you today? Are you a dog or a cat person?
[Pause]
Schaeffer
What… what the… what the fuck are you?!
???
I am human. We are not so different, you and I.
Schaeffer
You… stay where you are! Are you… are you a prisoner?
[Long pause]
Are you human?!
[Long pause]
analog frigate
a mutated scout turned one of the ghostie bois?
nope
eternal talon
also, what are the ghosts in actuality?
analog frigate
i suggest also listening to the audio logs themselves
they are in the r6 wiki
f3 and search the file names
eternal talon
nam-v is the parasite, isn't it?
analog frigate
no
eternal talon
what's nam v then
analog frigate
it's a virus
eternal talon
i thought it was established the sleepers were parasitic?
solar nova
There is a parasite and a virus, which are separate.
solar nova
The parasite is a carrier for the virus, but it's not clear which does what.
analog frigate
it's still a theory that NAM-V causes sleepers
analog frigate
whats the virus then
it's a deadly virus with an r-naught of 17
that destroyed the world
analog frigate
how many people 1 person infects
analog frigate
basically
eternal talon
in the old intros
analog frigate
check the top pin
eternal talon
way back in rundown 1
analog frigate
and read the text file
analog frigate
it's not wasteland gone
eternal talon
hear birds and rain
analog frigate
humans are gone
NAM-V won't destroy the fauna
we still don't know if it infects animals
eternal talon
why did they change the drop sequence btw?
no longer see the jungle above
just big metal stuffs
analog frigate
time progressed
new stuff got made by the KSOs with the warden's command
you need to read this
eternal talon
was under the impression that the entrance was just a big pit, like a missile silo door basically
analog frigate
at least the NAM-V part
eternal talon
since there was no structures around the entrance, just forest
analog frigate
was under the impression that the entrance was just a big pit, like a missile si...
it's the main shaft of the mine
eternal talon
or at least none tall-enough to be visible over the drop zone wall
or whatever the pods are attatched to before being lowered with the crane
eternal talon
i swear to god
analog frigate
or is it a D4 situation
analog frigate
well
eternal talon
way back when.
analog frigate
we are in yucatan
i don't see why trees shouldn't exist
by the world is gone i mean people are gone
humanity
eternal talon
how did it crawl out of the pit?
analog frigate
what
eternal talon
other entrances should have been either collapsed or well defended when the site went to heck
realistically speaking
solar nova
The virus got out, not the sleepers.
eternal talon
and how did the virus get out if not with a sleeper
eternal talon
someone infected but not turned?
analog frigate
because it's not sleepers that carry it
eternal talon
ah, i guess.
subtle verge
whats an r-naught
R-Naught is the measurement used to determine how many people a single person can infect. For example, Covid-19 has an r-naught of 5.7. So for every 1 person infected, they infect another 5.7 people.
In GTFO, NAM-V has an r-naught of 17, which makes it the most infectious disease after Ebola at 15.
eternal talon
wdym not sleepers that cary it
analog frigate
someone infected but not turned?
nam-v isn't known to cause sleepers
solar nova
We don't know if the parasite or the virus creates sleepers, or how long it takes.
analog frigate
there is the one that causes sleepers, probably like a 10cm worm or something
eternal talon
parasite yepyep
analog frigate
and then a waterborne parasite
eternal talon
two parasites?
analog frigate
that carries NAM-V
analog frigate
two parasites?
until we confirm nam-v causes sleepers, yes
analog frigate
wtf is this? africa?
mexico
eternal talon
i know it's mexico
analog frigate
and aliens
solar nova
We also know the virus can spread independent of the parasite, presumably.
solar nova
I dunno about two parasites.
eternal talon
and then a waterborne parasite
this
analog frigate
why so dman complicated
because that's gtfo lore
oh
my mistake
not waterborne
just a tiny one
eternal talon
you said and
subtle verge
As far as we know there is 1 parasite and 1 virus, at least by logs.
solar nova
If anything is waterborne, it's probably eggs or larvae of a single parasite, not two parasites.
eternal talon
so how did nam v get out, if not with a parasite?
analog frigate
we have the thing that causes sleepers, don't think of it exactly as a parasite but we call it that since it's behavoir matches
analog frigate
so how did nam v get out, if not with a parasite?
people that were infected
eternal talon
either a person turned full sleeper or infeced person
eternal talon
if person doesn't need parasite to be sleeper only virus then what point of parasite
solar nova
Naruto ran straight to Florida.
analog frigate
if person doesn't need parasite to be sleeper only virus then what point of para...
it's told there is one in a log
eternal talon
hive mind nonsense?
solar nova
if person doesn't need parasite to be sleeper only virus then what point of para...
Not sure what "point" you'd expect, it's a symbiotic relationship, there doesn't need to be any dependence or purpose.
subtle verge
Not hive mind, more colony minded. We think its pheromone response like ants and bees.
solar nova
Parasite spreads virus, virus gives the parasite hosts.
eternal talon
virus makes host parasite controlls host? @solar nova
analog frigate
that's if it's confirmed that NAM-V causes sleepers
eternal talon
i guess makes more sense
solar nova
Both can exist independent of the other, but they benefit each other.
analog frigate
sorta yeah
eternal talon
depends on what you consider sleepers also
analog frigate
a sleeper is a sleeper
eternal talon
we get infected but never turn, even in 5+ hour long sessions
could be the combination of the two that makes a sleeper
analog frigate
possibly
but again
that's if NAM-V causes sleepers
which we haven't confirmed yet
eternal talon
so what did nam v do then to end the world
eternal talon
just get sick and die?
analog frigate
yup
solar nova
It seems not.
eternal talon
that makes the sleeper, or only descriptions of it
solar nova
We don't know.
Could be that the parasite creates sleepers to live in and maneuver (the parasite is basically the brain creating a body)
Could be that the virus eventually results in sleepers either late in the infection or long enough after killing a host.
eternal talon
nam-v airborne then given fog?
solar nova
Infection is probably a poison rather than a literal disease.
Not well understood, though.
solar nova
Seems to fit into the colony structure, it seems like sleepers are formed into different variants in order to fulfill different roles.
analog frigate
nam-v airborne then given fog?
fog isn't NAM-V
eternal talon
different parasite variations or parasite do different things
what fog then. fog and wall tumors give same infection
solar nova
Front-line, back-line, light builds, heavy builds.
analog frigate
it appears to be the same parasite but just differs due to the dna
analog frigate
what fog then. fog and wall tumors give same infection
solar nova
It's kind of like how ants can have dimorphism within a colony.
eternal talon
I have our entire cellular biology department working on this, but so far little progress has been made. Even after the parasite is removed, the viral load increases. We cannot stop the progress of the virus, and our only defence is SCBA Level A suits when in NAM-V hotspots. Even with this level of protection, the parasites are finding ways in.
multiple parasites per host wtf?
solar nova
An Atta major in a leafcutter colony is still an Atta, just the same as a minor is an Atta, they're just different variations of the same species of ant to fulfill different roles.
eternal talon
you said 10cm
eternal talon
"even with this level of protection, the PARASITES are finding ways in"
solar nova
you said 10cm
If the parasite causes sleepers, it probably grows to be much larger than it starts out.
But we don't know.
subtle verge
It's even possible the parasite is microscopic.
analog frigate
this whole parasite thing will remain a duo until we confirm the NAM-V one and the sleeper causing one are the same
solar nova
It's probably fairly large based on the size of cysts in sleepers, at least, they're huge if they're eggs.
analog frigate
well we can figure that out
eternal talon
there is the one that causes sleepers, probably like a 10cm worm or something
also you said worm lol not me
"why do you imagine it as one big worm"
analog frigate
ok so
solar nova
Assuming there are two parasites is really weird, tbqh. I don't see why we would speculate that much if we already have a parasite.
eternal talon
Assuming there are two parasites is really weird, tbqh. I don't see why we woul...
^^^^^^^
analog frigate
Assuming there are two parasites is really weird, tbqh. I don't see why we woul...
issue is, we have 2 unless we confirm NAM-V causes sleepers
eternal talon
occam's razor
solar nova
issue is, we have 2 unless we confirm NAM-V causes sleepers
Why?
analog frigate
the one mentioned in the NAM-V log, and then the one determined to cause sleepers
solar nova
Just have the one parasite do both.
eternal talon
occam's razor
analog frigate
yes yes
eternal talon
agree with rayalot72
analog frigate
Just have the one parasite do both.
so the same, but a variation?
solar nova
Not even a variation.
solar nova
Parasite causes NAM-V, NAM-V kills a host, that parasite or its close relatives utilize the dead host.
analog frigate
Not even a variation.
then that means the whole surface of the earth is covered in over 9 billion sleepers
analog frigate
they aren't zombies
subtle verge
It could play on genetics of the host, too. There could be a specific generic code that determines sleeper status or death.
analog frigate
it was specifically said that they weren't zombies nor aliens
solar nova
then that means the whole surface of the earth is covered in over 9 billion slee...
Possibly, but that assumes the parasite got out with NAM-V.
eternal talon
infected for too long without parasite is just normal death
waste of energy for to turn everything into potential body without hosts to use them
analog frigate
Possibly, but that assumes the parasite got out with NAM-V.
it did if an outside analysis talked about it
solar nova
It's unclear if NAM-V is still being carried or if it escaped independently.
Parasites aren't mentioned in the little information we have.
analog frigate
I have our entire cellular biology department working on this, but so far little...
^
NAM-V hotspots
how likely is it that they are internal to Garganta
or somewhere in the world
eternal talon
prob just came with parasites if both need eachother
eternal talon
as said yesterday, just teleported infected allens
solar nova
The CDC-related logs only mention the virus.
analog frigate
so then the parasite is only mentioned internally while the virus has no mention of a parasite outside
aight we fixed it
eternal talon
well yeah
obv sleepers everywhere inside
sleeper corpses lying basically melting on ground could be nam-v
without parasite controlling
as the outcome
solar nova
?
eternal talon
melted workers?
solar nova
Seems more to do with whatever strange materials form sleepers.
eternal talon
around the facility tons of these
solar nova
Oh, thought you meant after sleepers die.
solar nova
They melt in this version.
eternal talon
they look melty
solar nova
Yeah, that would make sense.
eternal talon
but really could just be big gorey mess
could be what death is for infected if not controlled by parasite in time
anybody have pic of these worker corpses?
most still have hardhats and stuff on i think
so probably from initial outbreak
no gas masks
makes sense virus would be faster than parasite
leaving basically a ring of corpses around parasite infected zones for it to spread outwards easier
could by why allens lost so fast
analog frigate
they aren't zombies
eternal talon
nobody said they were
analog frigate
it was specifically said they weren't
eternal talon
nobody said they were
analog frigate
trailer
eternal talon
again
analog frigate
and we know what was said in the trailer is completely canon
eternal talon
again
elder citrus
How is the virus able to penetrate Level A HAZMAT protection? That seems silly.
analog frigate
again
do you really need me to send you where it's said and for doc to tell you the trailer it canon
eternal talon
AGAIN DARAXUS
subtle verge
How is the virus able to penetrate Level A HAZMAT protection? That seems silly.
The parasites are able to eat through the hazmat material.
analog frigate
How is the virus able to penetrate Level A HAZMAT protection? That seems silly.
it chews through it as far as we know
eternal talon
NOBODY SAID THEY WERE ZOMBIES
solar nova
^
analog frigate
then why are you saying that corpses get infected
eternal talon
i didn't
analog frigate
you sure?
eternal talon
corpses can't fight back.
elder citrus
The parasites are able to eat through the hazmat material.
That's... odd. Do they explain how?
analog frigate
That's... odd. Do they explain how?
nope
elder citrus
lol okay
subtle verge
That's... odd. Do they explain how?
They do not, as we do not know what the parasite looks like or how it behaves.
eternal talon
by the time parasite gets past virus, virus already has either killed defenders or made ready to go hosts
@analog frigate
elder citrus
That's also weird. Is it changing from a virus to a bacteria?
subtle verge
All we have is the log that states that, even with Class A Hazmat, people are still getting infected with NAM-V.
analog frigate
by the time parasite gets past virus, virus already has either killed defenders ...
so they don't turn into sleepers then
elder citrus
both virus and parasite needed for sleeper, remember?
So these are separate things?
analog frigate
so you are saying, the corpses get turned into sleepers
subtle verge
That's also weird. Is it changing from a virus to a bacteria?
We think that it's a symbiotic relationship of some kind, however we have no real idea until we're told otherwise. We can only speculate and theorize.
eternal talon
virus makes infected. infected either dies or parasite controlls before dies.
virus faster than parasite
by time parasite catch up, all either dead or infected ready to take control of
obv need be fast to not just find everything dead already tho
solar nova
Tbf, the sleepers we see probably are in part zombies, it's just that not all of them are and their ultimate origin is probably something that isn't like a zombie at all.
elder citrus
Functionally, and narratively they are zombies.
eternal talon
a person using a gun to fight sleepers wont be able to defend very well while also fighting virus
subtle verge
I don't think they're zombified at all, more mutants/mutations.
analog frigate
Functionally, and narratively they are zombies.
they can't be
eternal talon
makes job easier for parasite to take more
analog frigate
I don't think they're zombified at all, more mutants/mutations.
exactly
eternal talon
work together. nobody said zombies
spread at a near consistant rate, virus slightly faster.
elder citrus
Corpse-like monsters that trigger our disgust and revulsion response while also hitting uncanny valley territory because of their similarities to human beings.
solar nova
Seems to me like the same sleepers can be made via zombification or through a cocoon. Alternatively, it might be that corpses are consumed to be converted into sleepers.
eternal talon
work together to protect parasite so parasite can help virus live and therefore spread longer
subtle verge
The virus, as far as we can tell, is akin to HIV and other diseases that use it's RNA to decipher our DNA to then be able to replicate itself.
solar nova
Sleepers, and the "flesh" material seem particularly malleable.
vagrant fiber
How long does it take a human to turn into a Sleeper?
eternal talon
day i think
subtle verge
How long does it take a human to turn into a Sleeper?
Unconfirmed.
eternal talon
not sure it's said anywhere
elder citrus
They're not zombies in universe, but in terms of role they do the same thing.
eternal talon
kinda.
subtle verge
They're not zombies in universe, but in terms of role they do the same thing.
Again, I don't think that to be the case. If there is anything we can relate the sleepers to in a real-world sense, it would be ants and bees. As far as we can tell with visual evidence in-game, we theorize that they use pheromonal responses akin to ants or bees. The Scout, for example.
When it does it's scream, it unleashes that blue-ish wave, which we think is a condensed pheromonal response to stimulation.
vagrant fiber
and the ||Kraken|| would be the Queen?
subtle verge
Which then alerts others.
elder citrus
Again, I don't think that to be the case. If there is anything we can relate the...
You're speaking past what I am saying. I'm not talking about the non-fiction elements. I'm talking about their function in the story and game.
subtle verge
and the ||Kraken|| would be the Queen?
No need to spoiler things here. 🙂
eternal talon
this virus parasite combo is blitzkrieg. just virus would be slow. virus by itself couldn't be hyperlethal to keep itself going.
subtle verge
You're speaking past what I am saying. I'm not talking about the non-fiction ele...
Are you referencing that they are GTFO's version of L4D's horde?
eternal talon
together they can.
elder citrus
Are you referencing that they are GTFO's version of L4D's horde?
That's a good example
subtle verge
That's a good example
Gotcha. Sorry, I was in theory brain instead of normal smooth brain. Thanks for clarification!
elder citrus
As enemies in the game they behave almost the same way. As part of the story of the game, they also do almost the same thing.
elder citrus
Gotcha. Sorry, I was in theory brain instead of normal smooth brain. Thanks for ...
No problem bud.
eternal talon
the way they attack reinforces this too.
elder citrus
In universe though? They're not zombies. Dudes are alive.
eternal talon
fast quick attacks and overwhelming tactics.
elder citrus
Waves of meat
eternal talon
blitzkrieg theory
work together to basically fuel eachothers destruction
biological nukes.
solar nova
Tbf that has more to do with genre than how we might identify them.
Glyphids are not zombies.
vagrant fiber
Hybridization a more perfect organism both virulent and parasitic both replicates inside the host and has sentience to back it up. So at that point would be more more along side parasitic cancer at that point.
subtle verge
fast quick attacks and overwhelming tactics.
Just like a colony of ants and bees would! Just.. very fleshy, meaty, horrifying.. mass-extinction causing.. monsters.
eternal talon
@vagrant fiber parasite keeps host alive and controlls it, basically letting virus keep reproducing instead of dying out when it spreads too fast. spreading this fast also lets parasite get more hosts to let virus spread faster. repeat until world destroyed. no wonder dems allens all lost.
never stood a bloody chance against that.
especially not earth.
vagrant fiber
So ever if we kill the Sleeper the virus is still active within the corpse?
eternal talon
no
sleeper dies the virus can't keep going
same way viruses die irl
look at the black death
vagrant fiber
Noted.
placid beacon
mind you, this is all theoretical for the most part
eternal talon
the sleepers basically a home base, mobile infection platforms as it spreads.
can't wipe it out without killing the parasite infected sleepers
placid beacon
any theory can fly as long as it sorta makes sense
vagrant fiber
combat forms in a sense.
eternal talon
can't kill sleepers because virus so hyperlethal
worthy flower
Ive got a theory that the virus is infecting each cell with a foreign organelle in addition with its genetic material. Implying a cellular change similar to the history of apicomplexans.
subtle verge
So ever if we kill the Sleeper the virus is still active within the corpse?
Yes and no. Based on real-world examples, a cell can survive past the expiration date of the host. Generally they can survive up until the point there is no more resource for the cell to consume or use to sustain itself, or if the cell in particular requires a live host.
eternal talon
when a city is fully infected by a virus, the virus starves and dies. with the sleepers and parasite keeping them alive, it can. that's what changes the whole damn ball game
subtle verge
That's why, for example, Covid-19 can last between 18-72 hours without a host.
eternal talon
^^ now extend that to months/years with the parasite
and the parasite ITSELF is also hyper lethal
because of the mutations
subtle verge
Now, that being said, considering how long the virus/parasites have survived... I'm sure they don't need a host.
Queue 66 million years since the Chicxulub meteor.
vagrant fiber
So when we are talking about the parasite we are talking about that worm like appendage and not the floaters we see in Red Alpha.
eternal talon
could also be canibalism. look at the mother @subtle verge
floaters are infected allens @vagrant fiber
subtle verge
could also be canibalism. look at the mother <@!156901751838998528>
Does the mother have cannibalistic tendencies? First I've heard of that.
eternal talon
no idea, but could be a way.
given a large enough population, it could be extended with hybernation aswell
we have no idea how much stuffs was sent with the meteor
vagrant fiber
So could be the virus also be response for the different strains of Sleeper that we see from the Scout to the Tank due to adapting to the expeditions of prisoners. The Parasite able to enter hyper evolution due to the virus spreading from host to host mutating.
eternal talon
9 miles is bloody HUGE
placid beacon
So could be the virus also be response for the different strains of Sleeper that...
oh i like that
eternal talon
potentially, yeah.
that just depends on which is smarter. the parasite or the virus.
my best guess is the former, but could be any.
placid beacon
it seems entirely plausible considering the evolutionary adaptations that the more dangerous sleeper varients have; specialized to the point where it seems specifically made to combat us
subtle verge
I'd consider a more dormant state than anything. I mean look at the more recent reports of the Axolotl that went without food for something like 6 years due to it's dormant state.
Edit: could be another animal, I just remember a case study on it.
placid beacon
its quite terrifying to think about
eternal talon
i think it's more the parasite that's conventional warfare. the virus is more biological
solar nova
it seems entirely plausible considering the evolutionary adaptations that the mo...
Shhhh, prisoners...
placid beacon
eternal talon
if they infected a particularly inteligent individual
vagrant fiber
If that would be the case it would be able to retain some sort of intellect from the host. Then again I would think it would consider it inferior due to its own biological weaponry.
subtle verge
So could be the virus also be response for the different strains of Sleeper that...
I'd be willing to bet it probably plays off of the biological makeup of the host, as well as what the colony could be in need of.
eternal talon
maybe @vagrant fiber.
i'm not a world-ending mega-parasite.
i wouldn't know what they'd consider most optimal
vagrant fiber
Shooters and Hybrids don't run out of "Ammo" do they?
eternal talon
no
but they could just be either recycling bone tissue or using their heads as ammo drums and feeding from the corpses in the complex
to basically, ehem... "reload"
so to say
solar nova
Most likely the sleepers we see are combining the functions sleepers have inherent to themselves with how humans work, which they are mimicking, in order to be best suited for the local environment. Either warpers/flyers are the true face of sleepers, one of their castes, anyhow, or they are a twisted version of some unknown alien race.
eternal talon
i think more than likely they are just the infected allens.
vagrant fiber
Kraken being patient Zero?
eternal talon
or some infected species native to their planet
say, an infected whale in ours.
viruses don't really descriminate, and often jump between species.
i mean, the floaty bois they infected before earth certainly have basically no biolgical similarities to humans
lilac island
or it was a different species entirely
eternal talon
it was allens.
lilac island
def aliens alright
eternal talon
parasites no way big brain enough to invent teleportation.
lilac island
depends
eternal talon
and viruses microscopic
unless they using an infected lifeform as brains
which, would be a stretch
lilac island
that seems more realistic
in a way
on the other hand what about the giant biomass ceilings turning into the d1 boss?
vagrant fiber
combination of the two are a match made in hell though. Parasite+Virus=Enhanced Evolutionary Parasite which can adapt and mutate at random given the amount of hosts it has gone though. Given the Sleepers are a invasive species and how it dominated the human ecosystem given the slipgate we opened how they followed us back.
eternal talon
just incubation pods i think @lilac island
eternal talon
@vagrant fiber that's what i'm sayin. blitzkrieg evoloution
and what's scarier, is that conversion was very VERY rapid
they sat in that crater for milions of years before encountering humans
then almost immediately destroying the entire complex once people cracked the crust and let it out
vagrant fiber
My real question is does the sleeper see us as a sentient beings or does it consider us just another host does it understand how we think and empathize. There has to be a reason when it turns us it still retains our humanoid shape ever though it is twisted and distorted.
eternal talon
they had to learn, understand, adapt, and convert humans in a very very miniscule timeframe for such individually small lifeforms
probably just 'food'
sees us as more effective for combat or whatever
kinda hard to understand the thinking and motive of something so allen to us
that, or easier to just retain form of something it infected rather than changing it to something it was already used to given the amount of energy likely required
solar nova
My real question is does the sleeper see us as a sentient beings or does it cons...
Probably not intelligent in that way, it probably mimics its hosts as a means of diversifying itself and adapting to the local environment.
worthy flower
Sleepers might just have the black crystals on a cellular level
worthy flower
Wheras teleportation is a function of spontaneous excitation
eternal talon
infected the allen that made the crystal tech
maybe the original allen made the sleeper allen as biologial warfare or somethin, but thats way out of the scope of the game
vagrant fiber
comprehension given the lack of anything besides pheromones and guttural noises. They can't speak like us given their alterations given. Maybe the Kraken and Floaters were just a test run and human were the human accident how it effective transfigured the human anatomy into a living weapon.
eternal talon
a test run?
nah, i just think it's moreso an accident they made it to earth
and the floaty bois/kraken or whatevs were allens trying to escape the viral-parasite
vagrant fiber
My question I ask what came first the Virus or the parasite?
eternal talon
more than likely parasite
nothing special about the virus so to say
any other virus could have likely changed the same way to work with the parasite
the parasite is probably the more unique of the two
solar nova
My understanding of symbiotic relationships is that they both tend to pre-exist together, and over time develop to benefit from one another more and more.
eternal talon
yeah
solar nova
Just by virtue of sharing space, as well.
worthy flower
Parasite might just be a host to the virus
eternal talon
you don't give your driver alcohol when he is driving you somewhere. it's against your own interests.
^that's probably it.
more like, you don't f with me, i won't f with you, let's destroy the world, m kay?
vagrant fiber
symbiotic interaction.
worthy flower
I cant tell who you are ^
eternal talon
the parasite is the driver.
vagrant fiber
Parasite would be the only one with any form of intellect and the virus is the passenger.
eternal talon
yeh
the virus pays the parasite with hosts in exchange for security and the parasite pays the virus with sustain
worthy flower
Inb4 we get flying hybrids
eternal talon
possible, depends on what dems parasites did with dems allens before comin to earth
the floaters could also be a very old strain of this parasite-virus combo
they could compete with eachother given how long the one has been stuck on earth
vagrant fiber
biomass is biomass given possibility it would just be molding something like clay therefore given the ability would not be surprised.
eternal talon
now THAT would be interesting
vagrant fiber
Sleepers would wipe the floor with them.
eternal talon
we've only seen two allen species infected though
maybe the floaters aren't even the true allens
just some other infected species of that planet
the allens that built the tech, i mean
vagrant fiber
Assimilation vectors?
eternal talon
what now?
vagrant fiber
The floaters they serve as a means to spread the virus and the parasite.
eternal talon
ehh, probably the same as any other infected species though.
infected birds on earth would do the same thing
vagrant fiber
correct how different would be Kraken Anatomy but compared to a human sleeper.