gtfo-lore

[toxic flower]

invisible barriers

[eternal talon]

a LOT of holes have invisible barriers

[stone vine]

well now this is something

[eternal talon]

he somehow is experiencing memories from a different world-line

he is living a steins;gate

[stone vine]

yeah alt is probs like

very connected to our world

stuff that happens there happens here

hmmm

guess we see

holy shit yeah

so in that universe

everything happens a month later?

well theoretically

[eternal talon]

with infinite world lines there is infinite possibilities

[stone vine]

but think abt it

a month in advance

means a whole month

[eternal talon]

there is a world-line where you died by having a frying pan fall out a 2nd story window onto your head

[stone vine]

where we didnt do something

[eternal talon]

literally infinite possibilities

[stone vine]

this is crazy tho O_O

i love alt universe

[eternal talon]

who's to say we didnt in one world line or another, and we just aren't living in that world line?

[stone vine]

its so wacky and cool

so true

[eternal talon]

everything and nothing has both happened

its Schrodinger's lore

[stone vine]

huhhhh

wow so our universe is leaking into theirs

[eternal talon]

or being pulled into it.

we have no idea what is down in the inner.

allen tech is quite literally, out of this world

[stone vine]

no wonder warden found this place

we were already connected to it

[eternal talon]

they made a device to transport between universes, time and space, in the size of a gtx3090

[stone vine]

LOL

gpu teleporter

bro

next rundowns logs r gonna be

chefs kiss

[eternal talon]

wrdn may be allen made

[stone vine]

depends how extensive alien tech is

[eternal talon]

i don't know how much more extensive you can get than what we have seen

the explosion down in the inner alone, like a directed nuclear blast. anihalating thousands of meters of rock and stone

[stone vine]

so what if bishops mask is bishops mask

[eternal talon]

in an instant, a hundred times over

[stone vine]

like

[eternal talon]

two bishops in one world line

yes

a possibility.

[stone vine]

O-O

2 bishops

my life

so happy

i love bish

[eternal talon]

have a look at these

all possible in the context of r1//alt

some more than others

[cobalt mulch]

completely out of context but ballpark anyway.. i loved what portal: reloaded did with the timelines alone, u could bring back a future cube to the present but not the other way around... could it be a same-worldline future-bishop found a way to travel back, but had to hide his mask for some reason? .. and ofc they found it?

[eternal talon]

backtothefuture would tell you if you meet yourself it would cause a paradox,

but this isn't timelines.

these are seperate universes

[cobalt mulch]

yeah figured, the alt- must imply

[eternal talon]

well we knew that even before alt//r1.

[cobalt mulch]

but a cool concept and an awesome game btw, brain positively twisted

[eternal talon]

with the stokes logs regarding destination

[stone vine]

bro that earthquake log is still so cool to me

they’re actually paying sm attention to detail w the lore i love if

it*

my video is gonna be aids though

i have to somehow cover how artifacts also have to do w sleepers

and destination

gonna be kind of funky

[eternal talon]

The for dummies document is there for a reason.

It's there to help with a basis of all gtfo lore.

In terms of stuff near/in gameplay, I could tell you but it'd take quite a while

[white moth]

i got a video on it, the artifacts were transported inthe same ship as the virus and parasites and come from destination

anyone got a clip from R6A1

where you first pick up the MWP and get tped

[eternal talon]

i dont have a clip but i have pictures

[white moth]

damn

[past matrix]

i think it would have been cool if the sandstorm was there like it was in the trailer

but considering r6 was already fucked for fps

[eternal talon]

R6.5's trailer showed it but we never got it.

[stone vine]

cuz the devs suck w actual gameplay details 👺

oh look cool new feature mom bubbles in r3a1? how abt no

omg look mom scream behind r3d1 door? no

i mean charger door scream was way cooler

but

still they switched up so much

i still want to know the proper lore significance of the screams being different pitches and the mismatch of r3c1

i thinkkkk we may just find out

chargers 100% have to do w mom

[past matrix]

it is weird how in r3c1, there was a birther that was just there

[stone vine]

wait just hanging around

i remember there being a theory that’s were r3d1 mom came from but i never saw it there myself

[past matrix]

it had left right before we entered the zone

[stone vine]

ok so i am remembering right

we don’t properly see it

but it’s there

i had a whole theory abt pmom doing some funky stuff and somehow breaking space time LOL

i kind of doubt it was pmom specifically now but i still think the whole diff universe thing probs has to do w c1

wouldn’t it be funny if we load into alt c1 and it’s alpha on complete steroids

like an actual mom in the level and giant chargers

i lowkey wouldn’t even doubt it because they introduced hybrids r1 what’s stopping them

[past matrix]

i think its likely they'll add a birther to c1

[stone vine]

yeah maybe we’ll get to see where it goes

watch it run away and never come back

i’m sooooo excited for r3d1

[past matrix]

i wonder if we'll ever learn why the birther was attracted to the neonate in r3d1

[stone vine]

actually i think i know why

[past matrix]

also i wonder if in r3d1 alt, the multiple birther bug will happen again

[stone vine]

there’s what i assume is a mom brownie recipe

in a log

and it involves neonates

wonder if mom eats alive babies

speaking of that neonate we never get it back right

[past matrix]

we dont

[stone vine]

whos to say a mom can’t come later on

[past matrix]

we left it there

[stone vine]

like

i wonder what it would do

would it like eat it or something

or kiss it

or idk nurture it

it basically pops up the minute we open it so it definitely detects the life force of the baby

and also we know mom is man made like tank bht tank doesnt make babies it just has the sacks yk

so it’s possible that they have to introduce babies to it somehow

it’s also possible it creates them itself but

i doubt it could do that without the use of a baby in the creation process

we assume mom is female but it contains male and female parts so it’s basically just both but that also means it probs has the means to basically be like a single celled organism and just basically make more babies on its own

it generally could be that the mother somehow detects children and either kills them or nurtures them

not sure but hopefully we get an explanation in alt

[past matrix]

it will not

[stone vine]

don’t be negative warden

we have to believe

[past matrix]

i wonder how exactly the rundown holes are placed

according to the rundown drop screen, its something like this

but the main problem, is RAC1 and R3C1 are accessible through the same hole, same with R1D1 and R5D1

or it could be like this

as a sidenote, its never brought up period (like a lot of other things) why the D1 reactor started up again

the reactor shutting down in R5D1 made it so all the life preservation systems were shut down

but it didn't do the same in R1D1

[finite vine]

If I have to guess, no rundown uses a specific drop hole. There is probably a conveyor belt/ transport system for our hsu's, and when we need to go somewhere, our HSU is transported to that specific hole that provides access to the expedition we need to go to.

[ocean lake]

big gaping hole

[digital thicket]

For someone who wants to get throughly into GTFO lore where, how and who do i begin with

[burnt wren]

"lore for dummies" document in the pinned messages. It's a quick crach course on the lore so far.

[digital thicket]

thank you chief

[eternal talon]

If you have any questions after reading it, people are always here to talk

[cedar eagle]

Not really appropriate for this server so gonna have to yoink this

[digital thicket]

:( understood

[hot burrow]

Can’t have shit in the official GTFO discord server

[burnt wren]

serious discussion only

[hot burrow]

People have talked about the sleepers being shrimp, catfish, and monkeys

Tbh

I believe that

[dense saffron]

those levels aren't necessarily in the same place, r3c1's level description explicitly states there's a geographical mis-match

[white moth]

I have a video understanding rundowns 1-4 if you wanna watch it, it goes over the basics of everything up to R4

[digital thicket]

@white moth ill definitely have look, thank you!

[white moth]

Actually not a good idea

[past matrix]

its supposed to be the same place

it's implied the geographical mismatch is supposed to be something wacky happening with the complex itself

even the prisoners recognize that it's supposed to be the same place

[dense saffron]

fair enough

[pine agate]

I noticed they changed the original level descriptions in Alt R1

[white moth]

https://tenor.com/view/kronk-emperors-new-groove-its-all-coming-together-gif-12813012

[drifting island]

🥳

[eternal talon]

jesus christ

that is a LOT of mp3s

[white moth]

ell yeah it is

[white moth]

anyone have where it says "squidward" in the game files for the kraken?

[eternal talon]

i can. gimme a sec and i'll DM you.

[white moth]

bet

[white moth]

so i made a nice video

[burnt wren]

My man forcing that 4k to get a better codec

[stone vine]

well in the prisoner load up info it does state specific entry points and rundown screens kind of confirm one central hole with different levels spanning around the place i’d say it is one central drop hole but maybe with smaller stuff scattered throughout

[stone vine]

yeah it’s like what happened with the truth am guy

where he was all like this isn’t supposed to be here but it is

and it happened but it doesn’t look the same

id say it’s like a break in our dimension or something

where something else leaked in

mom had to get there somehow 🤷

so sure mom lore has so much more lore significance than they’ve shown us so far

i also so hope we get to see more what i think is sleeper queen transmissions

i love the fact that the laser beam roaring sleeper queen actually somehow has proper evidence towards it now lmaoooo

dunno if it’s a queen or sleeper central blob alien hangout place

tbh i would say we get decently close to it in e1

it’s the only level we ever see sleeping aggro sleepers

[past matrix]

laser beam roaring sleeper queen?

[burnt wren]

The thing that shot lasers and burned the holes we now use for deployment

[stone vine]

yes

it’s not literally that

but basically me n some ppl in r3 had this theory that the old roaring noise (which is now just sleeper noises) was a queen that created the holes throughout the complex

basically a huge something idk giant biomass or creature that had the power to rip holes through the complex

and queen theory is somewhat being proven through logs

and there’s a log that states while they were mining they hit something deep in the complex like near a lot of sleepers

this is when the infestation was alr going on i’m p sure

and the thing basically caused a huge earthquake

and started ripping holes through the complex

[burnt wren]

Not earthquake, I believe the logs directly mention beams of energy

[stone vine]

right but it caused an earthquake

[burnt wren]

So either something detonated down there, or some form of defense mechanism opened fire

[stone vine]

that’s what they describe it as “huge seismic energy”

in short term

terms

thing is that the sleeper infestation is known to spread via earthquakes so i don’t doubt it can do stuff like that abyways

[burnt wren]

The question remains if that was something directly related to sleepers, or something else entirely

[stone vine]

i doubt it’s something else

the sleepers want to go deeper

and this thing happens to be deeper

and also the samples they took of it

contained extraterrestrial mass basically

all components of artificacts/ the meteor

it definitely could be if the devs thought it out rlly crazily

but rn it’s definitely sleeper related

also i wonder why it targeted the server rooms

it might hold some sort of intelligence

or it can detect things electronically

because if the thing in the “alien log” is the queen sleeper

it means it can be picked up via the terminal system

which would mean it can detect technology somehow

[eternal talon]

@white moth
0:27 - The main goal of R5 is opening the way to/getting prepared to enter KDS Deep as it is under lockdown because of Schaeffer
0:55 - While I can't really comment on the reactor, it is also most likely the help with the main objective of getting into KDS Deep
1:05 - I can't comment, didn't play during r5, though I could have sworn there was a log attached to it on a certain level
1:13 - R5EX is simply a continuation of R5's main objective
1:32 - It IS confirmed that it is near the complex because r5e1 is literally in KDS deep. That level, like all others, has a depth value in the rundown screen
1:38 - It is not. Insight works for SMC, and wouldn't even be allowed in KDS Deep, as it is run by Kovac, a completely separate company
1:38 - On top of this, we know it got released from the chamber near the basalt mass, which was in a Santonean mining tunnel. Near the bottom, but certainly nowhere near KDS deep
1:47 - Why would it be outside the complex? The virus and the parasite are at this time a completely isolated problem to Garganta on Earth
1:59 - The reason is to use the terminal in one of the HSU storage vaults to give it access to the 24,000 KSOs inside
2:10 - Where did you get the number 40,000 from? lel. It is stated very clearly in the logs that is 8,000 outside, 24,000 inside. for a total of 32,000 total AT ALL in Garganta
2:39 - not found in the complex. found in the Inner, the upper layers of the meteor
3:16 - ... fair enough. though we do know what it does
3:23 - Quantum entanglement is way above my knowledge level so I can't really comment on that
4:20 - Their description does not match what we have for the allens, so it is extremely unlikely that they are the same species. Even the sleepers from earth still look relatively human in their infected form

[white moth]

we didnt know the main goal of R5 is opening the KDS deep till the extension thats why i did not state it

also i got 40k from the rundowns document

and insight was allowed in kds deep

and is one of the main reasons that kds deep was bad

built*

[eternal talon]

4:47 - It is destination. the moon you can see in the sky, the illumination, the plant life, all matches 1/1
5:00 - C2 i believe we also collect a hi-sec cargo case
5:20 - More likely insight, SMC doesn't really leave either in the lore to my knowledge. We only have info on Insight's expeditions and no other
5:37 - Tank is not new, first showed up several rundowns before r6. Also reactor is not mandatory to get to destination. You can just go straight down to the apex door and chad your way through the fog
5:40 - You don't fight the kraken in the reactor room, wtf?
6:00 - You entirely skipped R6D2
6:15 - We do not know who tampered with it. Could be insight, could be KDS, could be SMC, heck, could be the allens
6:26 - Insight has nothing to do with KDS Deep's construction whatsoever, KDS Deep was made as a part of blackmail that Kovac had on SMC because Kovac caught SMC burning the bodies of thousands of Red Cross workers and covering up the disaster at the sinkole so that they could mine for iridium there and set up garganta in the first place
6:44 - Fair enough

[white moth]

4:47, its gotta be more clarified then because 2 other documents i have read from people say otherwise

everything is different accournding to different people

i went off different documents of what i can find

[eternal talon]

i can show you pictures as evidence

i've got hundreds. i'm a collector

but lemme just finish this real q

[white moth]

just dm me these

i dont wanna get us removed from the channel for spamming it about my video

[eternal talon]

8:03 - The bit about the pipe isn't in the logs, it is blasted to you in gameplay when you teleport to the staircase of death, and there is a bloodied pipe lying near the corpse of u22
8:14 - We actually dont know, realistically he should have died years ago to NAM-V but somehow he is alive

[eternal talon]

we won't this is just common discussion

and i hope i don't come across as mean

just trying to be informative

[white moth]

no you dont i just wish you said this when i sent you the script

so i wouldnt have made these errors

[eternal talon]

the moon

[eternal talon]

i covered everything you posted in the script.

[eternal talon]

here are the pictures of destination's moon btw

[white moth]

yeah but tbf its just a moon

its not exact

[eternal talon]

we literally see the kraken in c1 bro

after the very last teleport

[white moth]

no im taslking about when you pick up the data cubes

and get tped

to random places

i thin its C3/C4

[eternal talon]

**Private encryption//SMC mail server
From: Andrew Clinton B035
To: Gustavo Peres
Date: July 12th 2049
Subject: Re: Your friends at SMC

Gustavo,

Thanks for dealing with the Red Cross. They have been removed from the area
and we can get back to business. One thing - they didn’t get to Chicxulub,
and we have. Looks like your evac teams didn’t even touch this place. What do
you want us to do with the bodies? There’s a lot of them. Not sure what
killed them but our med team assures me it’s not toxins.

Let me know. We can burn them if you want.

Andrew.**

[white moth]

i can rember

[eternal talon]

**D-Lock Block Cipher
Sender: Anders Johanson
Receiver: Janson Davies
Date: July 21st 2050
Subject: Services offered

Janson,

Thank you for agreeing to use this platform for our communications. You understand the scrutiny we’re under with the UN investigations, so D-Lock is essential for us. They have access to all our lower tier comms. Rest assured this channel is secure, so we can talk freely.

I wanted to offer our services to you for the SMC operation in Yucatan. As you know, we offer not just military support to protect your physical assets, but also high-level data protection. Considering how delicate the situation is in Mexico, I feel that Kovac is the perfect partner for you. We can keep your competitors out, and keep your confidential data in. Currently, your endeavors are fully exposed.

For example, after minimal work on our end, I know that the internal name of the facility is Garganta. I also know that your arrangement with Gustavo Peres is turning sour, and you may need to remove him from the picture (we can help with that). I also know about the 3500 bodies found near Chicxulub, where they were burned, and we have the medical reports on their cause of death. As I write this, I am looking at the construction costs so far, the private toxicology reports on your injured workers, and on the "unusual discoveries" you have made so far. I know a lot, and it took me less than half a day to find this information.

Please understand this is not extortion. You know me well enough to understand that is not how I work. I am telling you this because your secrets are not secure. Your activities can be easily discovered by any agency willing to do the legwork. You need to fix that.

We have worked together successfully in the past. Let’s renew that relationship.

Anders**

[eternal talon]

c1

r6 doesn't have a c4

c3 is the distraction level with the 30 minute timer

c2 is power cells and the high-sec cargo

Insight wasn't at Garganta for another... couple YEARS after KDS-Deep was green lit.

D-Lock Block Cipher
Sender: Janson Davies
Receiver: Anders Johanson
Date: May 10th, 2052
Subject: Re: Deep

Anders,

The board at Santonian have decided that the offer is acceptable.

Santonian will allocate a further 30,000 sqm of space for KDS Deep. This is in addition to the existing area you have allocated for Legion storage and the Biocom installation.

Kovac will have exclusive administration of the area. No Santonian employees will enter the area without express permission from Kovac. Exceptions will be made for select individuals, to be outlined in the full contract. I would personally be interested in a brief tour of the new location and an informal meeting to further discuss the RISE project, but that would be as a personal favor to me and would not influence any agreement between yourselves and Santonian.

In exchange for this new accommodation, Kovac will expand security duties both in the Garganta facility, and throughout the exclusion zone surrounding Chicxulub. Kovac will provide escort teams to all Santonian mining crews as they continue to excavate and expand Garganta and will provide military support for Project Insight explorations into the Fossil.

As always, I am merely a broker in this agreement. The Santonian Mining Company is a self-managed organization. Dreyfus Industries have never, and still do not dictate policy or direction to the Santonian Mining Company, we merely offer advice when requested. The board at Santonian make the decisions and are responsible for any policies enacted by the company.

J.

and ^ log is from the CEO of Dreyfus, the bosses of Insight, saying it is for Kocac administration only

also an issue on our part from the past, RISE is entirely a Kovac measure. not Insight

all of their stuff is isolated

and in regard with logs like the autopsy log, Kovac is actively impeding Insight's work

a key example is from c1 where in audio, they literally take bishop away from insight scientists so they cant get any info about destination from him

[white moth]

i was talking about D4

in that timestamp

and yes i know the 3 data cubes in C1 were in Arizona/Desitnation

[eternal talon]

corrupted data cubes is d4, yes.

[white moth]

yes

i was told different info that it wasnt deistnation

[eternal talon]

the video said it could be alternate earths

in the timestamp i gave.

[white moth]

yes

thats what i was told

[eternal talon]

well whoever told you that was either gravely misinformed or was blind.

[white moth]

its in the rundown guide

[eternal talon]

the same destination plants can be seen in c1 and while i do not have pictures of it on hand, i can verify if you need

[eternal talon]

the summary of expeditions?

[white moth]

yeah

[eternal talon]

yikes. that one and the one on the wiki need to be gravely updated

hell, the wiki page on destination is still labeled with stuff from r6 launch

[white moth]

yeah when i make my R7 video im just gonna make it a R5-7 video and update all of the info

[eternal talon]

i am here all day every day. if you need any info at all or any question whatsoever i can answer to the best of my ability

i can also back up all of my sources

[white moth]

okay, ill send me script again when i make it just please make sure that everything is correctr im gonna be going off of your info and info on R5-R5ext from the wiki

im not gonnna use the rundown guide

[eternal talon]

i'm just saying, i can't give corrections on things i'm not shown.
We are tasked with fighting through waves of enemies in order to give the warden access to tons and tons of dormant Security Officers that can be used to combat the sleepers.

[white moth]

fair ill be more discriptive

and use the lines im actualy gonna sa

say*

[eternal talon]

you may like this one pic btw, this is the KSO vault we go to at the end of r5e1

[white moth]

bet my thumbnail

[eternal talon]

i might as well just DM you my entire picture archive.

hold on

[white moth]

BET

[eternal talon]

how's that?

[stone vine]

frost i love ur allen thing

it’s funny

[stone vine]

hsu vault

😍

i wonder how many homies r in there

ugh i cant wait for r2 lore

now that destination stuff can exist in early rundowns

means cool logs

omg also cant wait for r3c1 prisoner transcript

wonder if it’ll be another decoded message

[eternal talon]

When we have two separate types of very important aliens in the lore, even without official names, it's important to be able to distinguish between the two.

[eternal talon]

It can house a total of 24,000

As to how many are in there right now, I can't say.

It's almost certain a lot died before and during the recall of all active KSOs to KDS Deep

As to why we aren't there, best guess is we weren't awake when wrdn issued the command,

As described in the three schaeffer audio logs before he himself got into a hydrostasis pod

[stone vine]

bro the deep theme in this game is getting a bit crazy

how much lore can they put on one word

ik it’s bc there’s something deeper obviously

whether it’s multiple things or it’s all alluding to one thing is the question

because think abt it what if we all have the same objective in a way

maybe not the same intentions

also schaeffer is hypocritical af bro asks us to help him go deeper then tells us to escape i don’t think he liked what he saw when we went deeper smh

[burnt wren]

No-no-no, that one checks out.

Schaeffer doesn't know about anything down there. He just wants to get out, simple as, just because.
The reason Schaeffer wanted us to go deeper is because Warden's influence weakens the deeper you go (presumably his signal fails to reach the deeper levels).
The reason why he believes this is because that's how he broke out, so he simply wants us to go by his example.

[past matrix]

i wonder if we'll get less lore as the rundowns progress

r2 had like 5 logs and r6 had a fuckton

they said that they wanted it to be where people could understand the lore more, so i dont think they would remove them

[carmine tendon]

R4 and R3 got a lot more

but since we're currently in a alternate universe

i wonder if the log were changed, stayed, or deviating

[real pewter]

some of the event happen sooner or later

so it would change a bit, imo

[carmine tendon]

Thought so.

[real pewter]

it might not change if they don't want to make the lore more confusing

it would be cool that lore event get crash into each other

[carmine tendon]

Either way, they'll definitely add something more, definitely.

[real pewter]

hard to tell

[stone vine]

schaeffee had a past objective that told him to go deeper actually

r**

he did fight wardens influence by cutting the connection (not fully presumably) but he has an overall objective

he wants to go deeper

he also wants us to escape

why on earth would schaeffer ask us to "help" him go deeper if he wanted us to escape

hes likely trying to free us and reach an overall objective which i doubt he even knows what it is

but if the theory where warden doesnt like an outcome of r8 is true then we can assume schaeffer also knows what happens, correct?

so he would be much more inclined to get us to leave i suppose

in that case he wanted to go deeper

not wants to lmao

theres something everyone is trying to reach and hasnt yet

when they were close it backfired

id say we are going to lose warden connection at some point, but is that going to be a good thing?

schaeffer may be good at traversing but we would need constant contact w him

[stone vine]

i think thats exactly whats gonna happen

its already happening

the earthquake from our universe and alt universe have already gotten mixed up

the one in alt happened in april and ours happened in march

yet in the alt universe people think its march that it happened

i think that all of the events happen somewhat the same but something is going to be very off

so, yeah, maybe similar logs +extra but i think something will be off

if u do see identical logs, look at the dates on them

i doubt they would be the same

has anyone looked at the auto gen status log

its probably still the same but itd be a really cool detail if it was subtly different

and alt bishop might have met regular bishop already via destination

what would be really cool is if destination is the link between universes like alt destination is our destination

so when we go there in r6 we see stuff that we already did yk

it would be sorta cool

for gameplay reasons idk if they would do that tho

nothing diff abt the status log i checked

[past matrix]

if you check line 46 there's a difference

[rain heron]

so I wonder
how much free will do the prisoners actually have? The logs show that KSOs are downright robotic when they have their orders (looking at you, Bishop), but our crew goes along with Schaeffers' amazing ideas and the intro blurb for R7D2 implies other prisoners are not all that eager to follow the Warden's orders to the letter either

[clever niche]

Might just be lack of maintenance. I doubt the warden will just let us out of stasis with the objective to re-brainwash ourselves, all the kovac fellas responsible for training and brainwashing us must be dead by now. Dauda makes it look easy since he just got into the pod and was screwed up but he also kept some memories.

[rain heron]

I had the impression that Warden (or BIOCOM) is the one doing the brainwashing since making a KSO apparently entails stuffing an eager candidate into hydrostasis for a a year or two

[eternal talon]

It depends. In the r6c1 stokes audio log, bishop clearly has basically zero. When he returns from the trip and is waiting at the teleporter, he is almost robotic and says nothing to the insight team. Yet in our squad, he talks and is as lively as everyone else.

Only a couple conclusions can be drawn from this, with one potential answer being that the wrdn can control how much free will we have.

In regards to r7d2, schaeffer specifically messes with our freight-lift to send us way down out of range. He says specifically something along the lines of the wrdn not thinking we are where we are

[eternal talon]

That is a reasonable possibility also.

[eternal talon]

In the audio logs specific to each character that we got in ~r4, it would seem the overwhelming majority of the conversion work was done by live Kovac staff and doctors, and not biocom.

And it would say it is anything but eager. Everyone but Hackett were very much so against becoming ksos, down to the final minute

[rain heron]

I was referring to this blurb specifically

[eternal talon]

Which also entails the question of dauda. As he never underwent any Kovac treatment. He simply, like schaeffer, entered a hydrostasis pod

[rain heron]

"eager" was sarcasm on my part.

[eternal talon]

So the neural implants must do some of the leg work in terms of at least maintaining control once the memories from extended stays are complete.

Dauda, not bishop. Mb

[rain heron]

at the same time, KSOs learned to use C-Foam "seemingly" on their own, without any input from Kovacs staff, which does imply that Warden is capable of imprinting skills and behaviors.

[eternal talon]

Well, I wouldn't jump to that conclusion just as fast anymore.

[rain heron]

...and Dauda also learned how to handle guns, now that I think of it.

[eternal talon]

as shown from the host of TSOT, it would seem in some way memories from alternate world-lines are making their way into our reality. Which, could just as easily have impacted that kso/ksos.

[eternal talon]

For someone in his field working for the people he was working for, it would be shocking if he wasn't familiar with handling firearms

Which wouldn't really matter anyway. Since all memories get wiped, for everyone, when in hydrostasis

[rain heron]

Memories do, but skills don't.

[eternal talon]

I'd tend to disagree. You are thinking of muscle memory. Skills are learned. Like learning how to prepare a four course dinner

[rain heron]

counterpoint: Henriksson is capable of recalling his computer hacking skills despite remembering nothing else. That goes beyond mere muscle memory.

[eternal talon]

Indeed. And we have no explanation for that. Even with what schaeffer says about it doesn't make sense, with him saying the memories don't come back, they just get better with time

[rain heron]

I'm inclined to think the memories aren't actually erased, just well-suppressed (and kept suppressed through reapplication of hydrostasis). Fragments remain like Dauda's dreams, Woods' verbal tics or Henriksson insisting on a difference between an engineer and a hacker. The more time they spend out of the tank, the more of their old selves they might recover.

Come to think of it, with all the time Bishop had spent on not!Arrakis (although I admit I don't quite buy the "2 years" thing I've seen mentioned) this might be the reason he's much more 'normal' in the game proper. He could just pretend to remain an unthinking KSO drone upon his return. Same as Woods is implied to do when questioned about his religious beliefs in his second log.

buuut that's all basically :headcanon: and the multiverse thing throws a wrench into everything anyway.

[eternal talon]

The 2 years we know for certain. The Stokes text log when he leaves and the stokes text log when he arrives back are ~1 and a half weeks apart.

Another stokes log mentions that destination's time is 85x faster than our own.

1.5 weeks x 85 is about two years.

If you'd like, when I boot my pc up in the morning I can link you all relevant logs.

[rain heron]

no need, I'm aware of the logs. I just don't think the writers thought the math through at the time.

[clever niche]

Yeah I assumed that basic skills were still retained from the memory wipes, since it would make hydrostasis a much less efficient method of making soldiers with all the retraining going on. Idk how irl stuff like this works but people who suffer from amnesia usually remember how to talk, eat, etc. It's an interesting idea to completely or near completely wipe and reprogram our brain but intensive brainwashing/partial amnesia seems more feasible.

[past matrix]

obviously the intercepted communications is supposed to hide the true nature of d2

but i wonder if it's supposed to be where the Warden was having an adjacent objective running at the same time

like it sent several groups of prisoners out to collect the seeds

but since the warden got fucked up, they essentially got left to die

[solar nova]

Isn't it literally just "this is supposed to be your objective," and then Schaeffer fucks with it?

[queen gazelle]

yeah the object was gonna be getting a bunch of neonates for the process we already did, oh sweet that is cool

[eternal talon]

except that isn't neonates. that's seeds for the neonatal process.

its the stage before that.

were that the level we play, it'd be a small pickup collection type objective

i can't say what specifically without risking a ban, given it's nature

think vials at a s###m bank

[queen gazelle]

the forbidden gtfo

[frozen crescent]

How many moons are in gtfo

[eternal talon]

what do you mean

on earth... on destination...

[frozen crescent]

both

very important question

[eternal talon]

earth only has one moon

on destination, we don't know.

could be either a really really bright moon, or a very very dim star.

i'm not an astrologist, so i can't say.

[frozen crescent]

ok good

[past matrix]

the objective text, yes

but im talking about this specific part

the "ugh these things are fucking heavy!" part

[solemn kraken]

Is that not the new seeds?

[past matrix]

it is

im pointing out that its likely there were several other prisoners dispatched at the same time

but then the Warden got fucked with and they got left to die

[eternal talon]

It's kind of strange it emphasizes that they are heavy

Given they aren't neonates

Realistically the should be extremely light, that is unless they were stored in big bulk containers and that is what they are carrying

[pallid hemlock]

The cells 🤠

[past matrix]

i wonder if the neonate from r3 will ever be relevant again

it seems like it was just used so that we could get access to R4

[drifting island]

I don't think we have a population count for slav-squating strikers in the complex

[lyric thicket]

Is destination another planet and if so why are sleepers there?

[raw terrace]

i like to think they get teleported with u by accident, like how the flyers first did

[eternal talon]

It is where they come from. I highly recommend reading the "for dummies" document in the pins of this channel.

[eternal talon]

In terms of human sleepers, it is the infected crew of previous Insight' Expeditions like EF-01 to the planet.

[silver ibex]

Had to kill 2 mothers, 2 tanks, probably a solid 10 scouts (plus waves) to get this 1 lore log

[slate swallow]

annd we are still not done

[twin acorn]

astrologists "read stars"
astronomers, cosmologists, astrophysicists, do actual science.
That looks like a star I don't think a moon can be that bright and the way the light is shining from it also seems weird for a moon, but there could be some weird atmospherical event going on, and, also, it's a game not the real world and there can be mistakes. Looks like it might be a white dwarf though, which is one of the type of stars we think would be easy for life to develop on to be fair

[eternal talon]

I originally figured it was a white-dwarf way back, but that eventually devolved into a pretty heated debate. anywho, here are some more pictures.

[twin acorn]

Looking at those pictures I maintain what I said

with the light being white the only other type of star it could be is a very luminous one which would look a whole heck of a lot brighter

though, I suppose

it's possible that you're very far away from it

not sure how that would work

[eternal talon]

it eventually got to the point of measuring the moon and it's possible relative distance to destination... so... fun

good times.

[twin acorn]

do we know literally anything about either stellar body

my issue with it is the

radiance?

very bright moon picture

"brightest moon in 69 (nice) years"

[eternal talon]

Destination's coordinates are the exact center of the Butterfly Nebula, NGC 6302

https://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/image_feature_2526.html

[twin acorn]

on the other hand, a star has light coming off "to the sides" because of how it reaches you

what im trying to say is any body that merely reflects light would be very defined

but atmospherics might play some weird role in that that I'm not aware of

[eternal talon]

here is a picture of it's star.

[twin acorn]

it's star?

[eternal talon]

during the day, yes.

[twin acorn]

the planets you mean

[eternal talon]

destination's star.

[twin acorn]

I mean if theres day and night it could just be the devs made the moon look like that

[eternal talon]

here is another, with full lens flare.

[eternal talon]

some of the expeditions we go to destination it is night, some are it at day.

[twin acorn]

binary star systems are not actually that rare and a binary system with a K-ish class star and a white dwarf wouldn't be so uncommon as the brighter stars can die first and create said white dwarf while the other star still has plenty of life left

but, again, it's a game not real life, and atmospherics would play a role as well in real life (and that looks pretty foggy)

[eternal talon]

destination has sandstorms the height of mountains.

[twin acorn]

im more inclined to say that if its night then its probably supposed to be a moon

mountains is very relative and sandstorms can get pretty big

[pearl trench]

could be basically any number of suns and moons in theory
reminds me of Nightfall

though likely not that many suns lol

[raw terrace]

ok might as well say my headcannon i didnt read lore of any of this
the complex has doors that requires bioscans, but alarm doors arent just alarmed cause alarms, instead it reads a bad biosignal when it starts and trips the alarm; we've seen the warden not be in control of some of the doors or things that happen, like when writing a command fucks everything like R7C1 or some lihts being turned off in... every rundown
and so when it first reads that bad biosignal, trips the alarm, and then the warden tries to fix it; the bioscans that follow arent by themsleves fixing anything, its the warden trying to fix it too, and depending on the number of the alarm, the way to resolve it is more fast or more slow
so ERROR alarms are just the warden not being able to do shit against it by itself

[past matrix]

i mean error alarms are typically caused by the warden

for example r2c2 was caused by it accidentally tripping the alarm and not being able to shut it off

[raw terrace]

well yeah r7c1 had one of those too
...
i guess
idk R2
but doors can have em too
so maybe its both

we can have both

[past matrix]

i still wonder if the Warden is a group of people + an ai or if its just an ai

we know that the Warden was originally a group of people (+ maybe an ai?) a few years ago

but we're approaching the finale of the story and all we've heard is that its an AI, even though there is some evidence pointing that there's a more human aspect to it

[raw terrace]

i mean on a lore thingy it said it was controlled by people before being turned over to an ai, and only really needed help with the morality part of it

if im not wrong

[past matrix]

im talking about current day, 2060's

[raw terrace]

then uh no idea

[silver ibex]

@fossil lotus

[winter pecan]

The issue with that being a star is the color and angular size mixed with the brightness.

• It has an angular size similar to our sun in the sky
• Its color (bluish white) implies a very high temperature star, which would be much brighter than our star per unit area

Any star of that color with that angular size would be much brighter than our sun in the sky, whether its a close white dwarf/neutron star, or a more distant blue giant.

If we can get similar scoped pics of the yellow star with the same weapon/fov it would definitly settle this, if the yellow star has the same angular size then it would have to be much more dim than the blue star, otherwise the blue star is a moon.

As for it being too bright to be a moon, our moon has a surface albido close to that of asphalt (its surface is a dark grey). This moon could be covered in ice, making it more reflective, in addition the yellow star could also be brighter/closer than our sun, both factors making the moon reflect more light

Or it could just be an artistic choice :^p

[eternal talon]

(bottom picture is with lower FOV)

in terms of my normal FOV, this is the best i've got on hand.

I usually play ~100

[winter pecan]

I'll have to try and compare them next time im on destination, but right now I'm pretty sure its a moon. A blue star with that angular size would be much brighter.

if it was more like a dot in the sky I would be on team star

[eternal talon]

it isn't really a 'team'. it was a conversation a long time ago.

[winter pecan]

ah sorry, thought it was still an ongoing debate

[late raven]

could it not be that its a blue star with much dust/bigger particles surrounding it? its in the middle of a nebula after all.

[molten tundra]

As someone who grew up in Arizona, and who visited Destinarion for the first time blind with a friend and said "Oh god... no... it can't be...

We've been teleported to ARIZONA"
It brings me great pleasure to see other people here have also called it Arizona

[pearl trench]

Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Detroit...

Ohio

[molten tundra]

It really do kinda look like AZ tho

It's mostly the distant Mesas

[pearl trench]

Yea reminds of the grand canyon but dustier

[molten tundra]

Quick question about the logs our knowledge is based on: are they still storing them way deep in difficult levels? It's always hard for me to both remember to check for logs and convince my team to wait while we all read them at the end of a d tier mission

[pearl trench]

Yessir

[molten tundra]

Fantastic

How are we supposed to read them while fighting off an error alarm

[pearl trench]

Very carefully

[molten tundra]

It's almost like they don't want us to find it

[molten tundra]

I looked at the state of truth logs that appear to have been used here to calculate that "by 2059, all humanity is calculated to have been dead on the surface" (as per "lore for dummies").

The numbers used to extrapolate this are a decline in US population estimates from 470 million to 300 million over the course of 2050-2053, averaging a decline of 56.666.... million annually across the 3 years.
This (very roughly) was then projected out over 6 years, saying "300 million - 340 million (56.666 * 6) is less than 0, therefore all humans on the surface would be dead"

Is that correct?

[nova valley]

@drifting island

[molten tundra]

If so, it seems like a lot of assumptions to make - assuming the information the state of truth log reports is accurate, the CONDAM and census data could be warped or made inaccurate due to the pandemic. Even assuming it is perfectly accurate, this calculation assumes a consistently linear decline, which seems unrealistic- the more people are dead, the more seriously people will take it (isolating more heavily), and the less dense population becomes (making it harder to spread).

Even then, this info would only apply to the USA if I'm not mistaken...

[drifting island]

what's up?

[molten tundra]

Just analyzing the projected apocalypse stats in the lore doc

They seem a bit unrealistic, which wouldn't matter if it was word of God, but it's the method of mathematical extrapolation used for approximation which I find suspect

[molten tundra]

Dusty pinged you, not sure if it was because of what I said though

[drifting island]

idk either

[molten tundra]

Basically what I'm saying is I've never heard of a virus that heavily impacts population functioning like a qouta for annual kills, resulting in a consistent annual decline

[eternal talon]

it is a continuation of a previous calculation made by an expert in the subject and another user in this channel, @subtle verge & @agile plinth
It is shorter than previously estimated by only ~a year or so, and doesn't really matter in any significance as it is currently sometime past the year 2062.

[molten tundra]

Can you link me to their work?

I'd be interested in seeing their reasoning.

[eternal talon]

even if you assume the math is wrong by oders of magnitude, they are all still long dead regardless.

[molten tundra]

Sorry - isn't it only 3 years past that date?

If they're off by an order of magnitude, many would still be alive

[eternal talon]

nam-v has an R-Naught of 19 and takes at most 5 weeks to kill its host.

its calculated R-Naught makes it by far and away the most infectious disease in recorded human history

beating the plague and others by miles.

[molten tundra]

Yes.

[eternal talon]

as to their calculations, they were done around the midpoint of r6 so i do not have them on hand.

i pinged punk instead.

[subtle verge]

In reference to our original calculations to deaths over time from NAM-V, right?

[eternal talon]

yes.

[molten tundra]

Sorry - was the calculation made using the r value, or using the state of truth logs numbers?

I was under the impression the latter was the basis

[eternal talon]

my calcuation was. theirs was before that log existed

[molten tundra]

Using the log in a linear fashion like that doesn't make sense for a disease, is what I was saying

[subtle verge]

Our calcs had some flaws, as Daraxus and I used the R-Naught value (19) and compared it to social reaction and data of the Covid-19 pandemic.

[eternal talon]

again, i can't say as to theirs. they are way more informed on these topics than i am.

[subtle verge]

We didn't calculate for true social distancing, environment, etc.

[molten tundra]

I haven't seen the other log, and covid didn't kill the majority of the people it infected

The biggest aspect would be like

[subtle verge]

It was just a cold-cut numbers calculation.

[molten tundra]

Once 4/5ths of all people are deas

It's gonna spread way slower

You know?

[eternal talon]

it is more than reasonable during the events of the game to assume no more than a few hundred thousand remain on the surface at most.

[molten tundra]

Population density heavily impacts the rate of disease spread

[molten tundra]

Based on what logic?

[eternal talon]

it being 100% lethal, killing at most in 5 weeks, its infectivity, and the comparative statistics on its spread through the US.

[molten tundra]

If the r value and lethality of the virus were already at their current level by 2050, and the population decreased in the USA by less than 50% over 3 years, why would you assume it would kill the remaining... 99.999% over the next six?

[eternal talon]

rough numbers are rough numbers but the calculation is good enough given the timeframe.

[eternal talon]

because it didn't start in the US alone. it spread through the Atlantic ocean infecting both Europe and the Americas simultaneously

[molten tundra]

Wouldn't it make more sense to keep halving the population?

[subtle verge]

Not in particular, because you have to account for more deaths = less traveling carriers = less spread, and that is a very hard # to calculate accurately.

[eternal talon]

not in this context because by the time people started isolating and shutting down world travel, pretty much everything was already fucked.

NATO collapsed before countries started isolating, even.

[subtle verge]

And that's on top of the hundreds of other variables.

[molten tundra]

I don't see this as compelling evidence to confidently state that a virus which took 3 years to reduce a population by 40%, which would continue to slow down its rates of transmission as the # of people declined, definitely killed the remaining 370 million save for a tiny. 03%

[subtle verge]

Going by State of Truth log, I'd imagine that you'd have a very steep decline in human population. I'd have to guess around 25-30% of humanity would remain after the mentioned years.

[molten tundra]

What year did it start killing peolle

People*

[eternal talon]

I feel as through you are ignoring the fact that the US is a first world country with a relatively wide population density

[molten tundra]

This is what I'm thinking

[eternal talon]

gimme a sec

[molten tundra]

10% conservatively

[eternal talon]

well i can give you the exact date

down to the day

[molten tundra]

Even if it killed 99% of all humans there would be millions left

Not hundreds of thousanss

Even if it started in say

2052

And halved the population every single year

[eternal talon]

NAM-V first started infecting people March 18th, 2052.

[molten tundra]

There'd be 200k people left in the USA alone by 2063

[molten tundra]

Do we know the date that the census info was taken from?

[eternal talon]

the state of truth audio log?

[molten tundra]

Yeah

[eternal talon]

yes. it has the year.

lemme go find it

[molten tundra]

It was 2053 right?

[eternal talon]

that seems likely but i'm still going to go and try and find it.

2053 would place it almost a decade ago

[molten tundra]

If we assume all that huge decline was due to NAM-v (this is reasonable given we have no other explanation for the huge drop), and we extremely conservatively estimate that people continue to get infected and die at the same rate 8 years in as they did, say, before anyone was isolating, and before 80% of the country had died, etc- just reducing population density naturally by letting people die would slow this down drastically, but assuming we completely ignore all of that and assume it continues to kill the same portion of the population every year for 10 more years

You'd still have over 200k people in the US

Realistically you'd probably have far more

[eternal talon]

Nam-v can spread through all possible vectors so you'd need something very specific to compare it's spread to.

[molten tundra]

I've read the log, yes

[eternal talon]

Although the virus has currently only been detected in the United States, Mexico and the United Kingdoms, there is a 90% probability that the virus is present in all continents.

-14th, march, 2053

still looking for the tsot log

[molten tundra]

But to assume that the rate at which new hosts become infected and die would remain constant even as population declines from 100 people per square mile, to one person every 10 square miles

That's the assumption you'd have to make for you to have 200k people left in the USA alone

And to have 200k left globally?

You'd have to assume it would accelerate

[eternal talon]

we dont know how many are left globably.

[eternal talon]

it would as it got more accustomed to humanity

[molten tundra]

Citation needed

[eternal talon]

it took far longer than the factually given 5 weeks for the first people to start dying in garganta

yet on the surface the CDC claims 5 weeks at most

[molten tundra]

And even then, it'd have to be 1000 times as effective to make up for... people being 1000 times further away

And that's assuming no changes in human tactics

[eternal talon]

it completely anihalated an alien civilization millions of times more advanced than humanity...

[molten tundra]

So?

We don't know how long it had to do that

And we don't know if they died due to sleepers, or just the virus

And a million other factors

Assuming there's "hundreds of thousands left" based on the numbers we have available seems erroneous.

[eternal talon]

people first started mutating in garganta on February 13th, 2053

[molten tundra]

Also, isn't punk the "expert" you referred to?

[eternal talon]

yes.

[molten tundra]

And didn't they earlier agree with me that like 30% of the population would remain

[eternal talon]

he and Beanz are professionals that actually work in these fields irl

[molten tundra]

For the same reasons I'm bringing up right now

[molten tundra]

This message

[eternal talon]

and I am saying it doesn't behave like a normal virus.

while punk is true, as he also said, his calculations were rough.

because they were "good enough" for the time

[molten tundra]

That's true to some extent, but frankly irrelevant to the point

If you want to assume that 99% of humanity is dead because the virus ruined an alien civilization that's your prerogative

[eternal talon]

we do not have the exact date that the game takes place. only dates that it takes place after. it could very well be almost up to the 2070s by now given our continued stays in hydrostasis

[molten tundra]

But the lore for dummies document states that humanity was "calculated" to be on the surface near extinct by 2059 based on the numbers in the log

[eternal talon]

~2062 is when r3 begins

[molten tundra]

And that's either a terrible calculation or factually incorrect.

[eternal talon]

indeed.

[eternal talon]

i'm no mathmatician.

[molten tundra]

If you use the numbers in the log more reasonably you get a far larger surviving percentage

If we don't want to use those numbers an instead extrapolate based on the fact that it decimated an advanced alien Civilization, it should says that

The latter is a far weaker claim, because there's so much less we know

We don't know how long it took to kill the aliens, or even if they all died

[eternal talon]

the time scale is also completely different. destination's time is 85x faster than ours.

[molten tundra]

Indeed

[eternal talon]

we know they didn't all die, since they managed to get to earth and bring the virus and the parasite here

[molten tundra]

Well

We know they didn't all die immediately

We don't know if any survive on their planet, or on other planets / dimensions, or even here

[eternal talon]

i should also mention, i just remembered,

[molten tundra]

And we don't know if the parasite had already become comorbid with nam-v on their planet, accelerating its destruction

[eternal talon]

https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?p=db54486eb4924b39969d9d7b9003bf0b&pm=s
the last message we have from the surface is in 2057, and we've heard/seen nothing since then.

[molten tundra]

Do we know if Garganta is still listening?

[eternal talon]

it did certainly because the kraken and floaters are also both. since the insight teams that went there also turned into sleepers

[eternal talon]

we aren't, the only entity that can is the WRDN and Schaeffer is currently fucking with its control over the biocom network

[molten tundra]

If thats the case, it sounds like it would have been worse for them, because AFAIK sleepers aren't on earth's surface

[eternal talon]

as far as we know yes, the parasite never made it to the surface on earth

[molten tundra]

Then do we really know if it was the last message sent, or just the last one garganta listened for?

[eternal talon]

since it only got into the complex after nam-v already had went global

[molten tundra]

Also, for the record

[eternal talon]

can't say. its the second to last log we have in the timeline at all. (that is dated)

[molten tundra]

It may be possible the parasite was one of the species on the spaceship, and was brought onto Arizona by the teams. Given how fast time moves there, that's plenty of time for kraken stuff to happen

So it may even be possible that despite the kraken being there now, the parasite wasn't an issue for them earlier

[eternal talon]

not really true. since the inner also had the crystals (inside the MWP artifact)
and the entity that edgar encountered can teleport, like the floaters can.

so it is incredibly likely that it did come from destination

[molten tundra]

I mean

The spaceship had stuff from multiple dimensions and universes

Who is to say one wasn't the parasite?

[eternal talon]

indeed. we are also a completely different world-line from destination.

[eternal talon]

well, i'd say given destination is a barren wasteland, something happened to them

easiest explination is that the virus killed them

[molten tundra]

I'd agree

But the parasite may not have been symbiotic with it at that point

[eternal talon]

the only ruins on the surface left there at all are sandstone carvings burried in sand.

[molten tundra]

It could have started on the spaceship (the parasite nam-v collaboration, etc), had millions of years to iterate on our planet

And then be reintroduced back to their (now empty) world

After all

The spaceship arrived here millions of years ago

[eternal talon]

problem with that is the floaters and the kraken

[molten tundra]

That's a long time for a virus to kill all your people

[eternal talon]

the native life would have been dead, and thus unable to be infected

/made into sleepers

[molten tundra]

The floaters could have been endemic life (like cattle)

Do we know if Nam v kills like

All animals?

I'd assume it does

Ah, I see what you mean now

[eternal talon]

we do not know for certain, but given it made the jump from an alien species to humans, i'd say its more than possible

[molten tundra]

If the parasite was first introduced long after the planet was rid of life

[eternal talon]

we wouldn't have the kraken or the floaters to fight, yeah.

[molten tundra]

Either the animals would had to have somehow survive the infection

To become parasitized

Or

They'd be dust long before the parasite returned

On the other hand

Assuming it was there beforehand implies that the parasitized lifeforms survived and were chilling dormant, or even active, for....

Hundreds of millions of years (?!)

Dinosaurs died 65 million years ago

Time passes 85x as fast in Arizona

The parasites were able to survive for.....

5.5 billion years?

I guess that's possible

Maybe

Anyways my point is

That civilization had 5.5 billion years their-time to dissappear

Assuming we'd be gone in 10 when fighting a far weaker threat (namv with no parasite), is a big assumption to make.

I'm not saying it's necessarily wrong

Just that I feel we don't have enough evidence to claim it strongly yet

You know?

[eternal talon]

the virus makes the parasite immortal.

[molten tundra]

I suppose

[eternal talon]

well one of the logs says so

the one i linked before

[molten tundra]

In 5.5 billion years I'd imagine some degree of evolution would take place even in the parasite / virus

[eternal talon]

of that, i cant say.

[molten tundra]

It's possible the kraken and floaters are nothing like they were before

Or maybe the virus/parasite when dormant doesn't change

Or has an extremely strong control over its own growth

Frankly, anything lasting that long and still working implies a level of biotechnological advancement that may as well be magic in terms of our understanding of it

I'm more impressed by that than the universe teleporter

[eternal talon]

given its controlled mutations with humans to make strikers, shooters, giants, tanks, snatchers, esc, it seems likely.

[eternal talon]

given the previous host species, that also seems likely.

[molten tundra]

Anyways, it sounds like we're on the same page now

[eternal talon]

we dont know for certain if the allens found it, or made it

[molten tundra]

Have we gotten an explanation yet as to why the main 4 aren't dead from infection?

[eternal talon]

continued stays in hydrostasis.

as for schaeffer, he should have died years ago.

he is an enigma

[molten tundra]

And what does that achieve?

Like

Does hydrostatis cure it?

That seems wrong

[eternal talon]

i know that feeling, but apparently something like it is true, as shown in one of the recent alt//r1 logs.

[molten tundra]

...seriously?

[eternal talon]

The only method we have found of killing the virus is by stopping the biological functions of the host through hydrostasis (or death). Fortunately, the parasites have not yet found a way into the HSUs. However, after hydrostasis reinfection is possible. We continue to improve our sterilization and prophylaxis methods, but we are fighting a losing battle. I see no future for us if we do not seek the origin of these lifeforms and find an immune genome. If we are to survive NAM-V, we must turn to the nature that created it. Evolution has had millions of years to fight the virus. We have months.

here is an excerpt from the log.

[molten tundra]

What.

What happened to no cure

[eternal talon]

i was one of the core defenders of HSU curing it being bullshit

but apparently the devs said 'no'

[molten tundra]

Well

If that really is the case

Maybe there's even more people alive than we thought

[eternal talon]

not really, that is an entire nother big complicated story

after the failed moon mission, HSU tech left public hands

it was kovac exclusive, for their legion program,

and kovac moved their HQ to garganta...

down here with us

[molten tundra]

Why would hydrostasis kill the virus

[eternal talon]

and as i'm sure you know, WRDN sealed garganta tight.

kovac had the methods, but left the surface to die.

then again, HSU is NOT without its EXTREME downsides

[molten tundra]

This is so weird with this added detail

[eternal talon]

so i guess it kind of makes sense why they wouldnt use it but still

losing your memory is better than death

[molten tundra]

Right but I feel like you could

Pretty effectively fight it considering how many HSUs they had

[eternal talon]

32,000

8k outside of KDS deep, 24k in.

scattered about the complex.

[molten tundra]

Less than I thought, but they could certainly sell the tech and kick off worldwide mass production

[eternal talon]

inside KDS deep they had whole vaults of the things.

[molten tundra]

Unless Kovacs WANTED the world to end

Like why would they benefit from that

[eternal talon]

resident evil?

again?

[molten tundra]

I... have no idea

[eternal talon]

lel

[molten tundra]

Given the huge death toll

I think it's reasonable to assume that the countries we used to know have collapsed

Even if 20% of the population remains, it's gonna be spread out in fragmented pockets

If far less, even moreso

[eternal talon]

certainly. after NATO went down each country closed their borders and went into their own mini-isolations.

[molten tundra]

So even if the "world" didn't exactly uh, end in terms of extinction

Society as we used to know it probably did

And if my understanding of this lore is correct

Kovacs had the tech to potentially stop or mitigate this, and come out on top, and chose not to use it

[eternal talon]

it would seem so.

[molten tundra]

And to instead... garganta just kept digging?

For like 10 more years?

[eternal talon]

not garganta per se,

its 3 different companies

[molten tundra]

Right, right

[eternal talon]

two if you want to get technical

[molten tundra]

But like

...why

[eternal talon]

Kovac Defense Services, Santonian (owned by dreyfus) and Insight (owned by dreyfus)

[molten tundra]

Why keep digging for 10 years until you're all dead

[eternal talon]

Santonian kept digging

i'd assume to try and keep the lights on while Insight did their research and expeditions to destination to try and find a cure or anything

Kovac made a deal with the mexican government and declared martial law

[molten tundra]

Is the implication then that only Kovacs and maybe Insight knew about HSUs curing infection?

[eternal talon]

and even before that they had an agreement with dreyfus, nobody is allowed inside KDS deep except them.

[eternal talon]

maybe even only kovac at all.

and whoever followed the disaster decades earlier with the red alpha mission

[molten tundra]

Santonian continuing to dig to profit its leaders in their bunkers riding out the end of the world maybe makes sense

[eternal talon]

the legion program was probably kept hush hush, kidnapping people and united states prison inmates to turn into slaves.

[molten tundra]

But throughout all of this

Kovacs actions, and the parent company of Santonian, seem to have inscrutable goals

[eternal talon]

Dreyfus at least had some knowlege of hydrostasis

[molten tundra]

Isn't it implied that the parent corporation knew there was a biohazard when they had them burn the red cross bodies on first contact?

[eternal talon]

their names are on some of the neonatal HSU tech

[molten tundra]

That was before the discovery of the ship or anything else

[eternal talon]

which is project rise

[molten tundra]

Also, you'd think if our HSUs could cure this thing

[eternal talon]

**Private encryption//SMC mail server
From: Andrew Clinton B035
To: Gustavo Peres
Date: July 12th 2049
Subject: Re: Your friends at SMC

Gustavo,

Thanks for dealing with the Red Cross. They have been removed from the area
and we can get back to business. One thing - they didn’t get to Chicxulub,
and we have. Looks like your evac teams didn’t even touch this place. What do
you want us to do with the bodies? There’s a lot of them. Not sure what
killed them but our med team assures me it’s not toxins.

Let me know. We can burn them if you want.

Andrew.**

[molten tundra]

The aliens would have had no issue

[eternal talon]

**Private encryption//UMS mail server
From: Gustavo Peres
To: Andrew Clinton B035
Date: July 13th 2049
Subject: Re: Your friends at SMC

Burn them.

G.**

[molten tundra]

Huh

Maybe just destroying evidence?

[eternal talon]

they destroyed them to my knowledge, so they could set up garganta to mine for iridium there.

so it wasn't quarantined.

$$$

[molten tundra]

Ahhhh

Ok

[eternal talon]

at that point, only Santonian was there.

Kovac heard about all this by hacking into SMC's servers because they were insecure.

that blackmail is what the bargaining chip was for them to set up KDS deep.

[molten tundra]

Still, Schaeffer surviving this long on his own is... there's explanations you could come up with and I guess they don't sound as stupid as HSU cures

[eternal talon]

**Mr. Davies,

I wanted to confirm that we have indeed found what we’re looking for. There’s a sediment layer running from dig site 10F (near Chicxulub) out to a few kilometers off the coast (we’re calling it La Vena internally). The vein looks rich, and the scans confirm there’s a huge deposit at the end. Our engineers ran the numbers on it and if the scan data is correct, we’re looking at a mass that’s 1.5 - 2k miles wide, and up to 4k down. Our scans can’t penetrate all the way through the mass – it’s too dense. We’ll have to dig to get accurate data.

If the density is consistent, we could be looking at upwards of 4,000 tons. A conservative estimate puts that at 300 billion at today’s Iridium price.

We have a plan to reach it, though the structure will probably send the Greens into a frenzy, so we may need some PR help with that? **

**Anyway, I’ll send you the blueprints of Garganta later this week – we’re just putting the final touches on it.

Back to it,

Andrew.
**

[eternal talon]

he has a lot of... plot holes, regarding his lore

most noteably being the Schaeffer Discrepancy

[molten tundra]

I mean maybe he has some private HSU

Or something

Maybe they'll just say he's immune

If HSUs cure the virus you'd think the aliens would have the tech to deal with it

Maybe it's harder to cure them, or it was more potent when they got it and has decayed over time, or maybe they were super religiously against HSU esque stuff

[eternal talon]

The risks of getting NAM-V are substantially higher in inadequately ventilated spaces where infected people spend even short periods of time together in close proximity. The R-Naught of NAM-V is currently at 17, making it one of the most infectious contagions in human history. There is currently no known cure for NAM-V, and treatment options are limited.

-World Health Organization Regional Director for Eirope, 14 March 2053

[eternal talon]

completely different biology and all yes, it is possible it just didn't work for them.

[molten tundra]

It's also possible that for whatever reason, despite being far more advanced than us in most ways, they literally never researched it for some reason

Maybe they'd see it as the same as death philosophically

Huh

[eternal talon]

**I have started a photographic record of the specimens. At some point in the future I will be getting published for these breakthrough discoveries and will need imagery for the inevitable book and tour lectures.

This week I drew the conclusion that the lifeforms we have been finding do not appear to come from the same evolutionary tree. Indeed, many of them appear to have at least partially evolved in drastically different environments, though there is clearly a commonality in the mutations they all share. There is no indication that the artifacts and objects we have found within the fossil were designed for use by any of the creatures, so quite how they ended up there is still a mystery. The bizarre disappearance of the equipment while working on Artifact 13 suggests some method of transformation or even transportation beyond our current understanding. As such, the origin of these creatures remains a mystery - but they come from different places. Different planets? Universes? I am confident I will unravel the mystery, but my impatience for understanding is overwhelming!**

[molten tundra]

This HSU curing thing still sounds silly tbh

If it kills viruses you'd think it would kill us too

[eternal talon]

I will be conducting a behavioral analysis of the few living creatures we have managed to capture. They have an extreme sensitivity to aural stimulation, so I will be setting up an experiment to project a range of frequencies throughout the lower levels of Garganta to see which ones draw the most attention. Obviously, this will be a controlled experiment. We will have Security Officers there to protect the researchers as they capture as many varieties of creature as possible. In an ideal world, I would need to order more display cases! -Infected allens?

[molten tundra]

But maybe this virus is like, specially weak to... however HSU works

[eternal talon]

possbly infected humans in the mix.

[molten tundra]

Are we supposed to assume that the sleepers we see preserved in tanks were alien lifeforms

Or that they all came from humans

[eternal talon]

they do appear to be mostly human.

we do have a description of an allen sleeper

i'll grab it in a sec

[molten tundra]

I've seen this one before

I remember that being in a level I played

Are we supposed to assume that was some alien prior to infection

[eternal talon]

**Log E105-009
Date: January 16th 2053
Patient: Employee E105 (Edgar Soweta)
Att. Phys: Dr. August Teale B023

//HearSay auto-transcript begins//
TEALE
Describe to me what you saw.
E105
You mean what was there.
TEALE
Is there a difference?
E105
You make it sound like I hallucinated the whole thing.
TEALE
I didn’t mean to--
E105
I’m not a nutcase Teale.
TEALE
I know that. Please. Describe the creature to me.
E105
It was… in the shadows, but not physically there. Like it appeared from the shadows.
TEALE
So it was hiding in the dark?
E105
No. No, it came from the dark. Do you understand?
TEALE
No.
E105
I mean it wasn’t there, and then it appeared. It came from the dark.
TEALE
Like it materialized--
E105
Exactly! It materialized in the dark. From a different dimension or something.
TEALE
A different dimension?
E105
Or something. Shit, I don’t know.
TEALE
You know that’s not possible, don’t you Edgar?
E105
Then why did it happen?
TEALE
Perhaps you misinterpreted what happened.
E105
Listen to me Teale. It was there, whether you want to believe it or not. You want me to walk out of here right now?
TEALE
No, please. I’m listening.
E105
Yeah… well… just don’t even go there--
TEALE
Okay. Tell me what happened. You said it chased you?
E105
Yeah. We were spraying the drift in Quad 21--
TEALE
That’s a deep shaft.
E105
Yeah. It’s down there. So I’m running the Gunite hose with Werner--**

TEALE
Now Werner didn’t see these creatures, correct?
E105
She stayed back to prep the Gunite. That’s why she didn’t see anything.
TEALE
Of course not. Go on.
E105
I’m walking the drift down towards the end, laying out the hose, and it’s dark, right? We haven’t sent Sparks down there yet because the drift is new and we have to finish spraying before they run cable.
TEALE
Go on.
E105
The light ends about 25 meters from where the end of the tunnel. So I turned my headlamp on, but it’s not seeing too deep because there’s still bug dust from the blast. Then I hear this sound - like a popping sound or... a clap of air, like a seal closing. THWAP!
TEALE
Yes.
E105
I start looking around in the dark and I see it. This creature. Just standing there, staring at me. Breathing real hard. It was… sort of human, but its head was hung low, like it broke its neck or something. Its legs were strong, muscular, but the arms were skinny and bent. It looked like two different bodies put together… and it’s looking right at me, panting.
TEALE
What did you do?
E105
I ran. What do you think I did?
TEALE
Did it chase you?
E105
Yes. I started yelling. Werner heard me and shone her flashlight down the tunnel.
TEALE
But she didn’t see anything?
E105
No, it disappeared. I don’t know - just stopped chasing me.
TEALE
Did you ever find it?

**E105
I’m not going back there. Send someone else down that tunnel. Fuck that.
TEALE
Is it possible it was human? Someone playing a joke on you?
E105
Are you fucking kidding me?
TEALE
I’m trying to understand what you saw--
E105
Look, that’s a closed tunnel, you understand? It’s a dead end. They haven’t finished blasting it. There’s no way to get down there other than walking right by me and Werner, and nothing, no one, walked past us. That thing was already there, in the dark. That’s what that sound was. It like… teleported or something.
TEALE
Teleported.
E105
This is a waste of my time.
TEALE
No. I’m trying to understand--
E105
I’m leaving. You want to know anything else, check the report. I’m done talking to you.
TEALE
HearSay off.

//HearSay auto-transcript ends//**

[molten tundra]

I remember reading this log in game

Yeah

[eternal talon]

It was… sort of human, but its head was hung low, like it broke its neck or something. Its legs were strong, muscular, but the arms were skinny and bent. It looked like two different bodies put together… and it’s looking right at me, panting.

[molten tundra]

But like

If that's not supposed to be a human based sleeper

[eternal talon]

imagine goro from mortal kombat

[molten tundra]

That could be based on any of the lifeforms they brought on The ship

[eternal talon]

sorta like that.

[molten tundra]

Right?

[eternal talon]

technically, yes.

though its the only non-human sleeper we have a description of from the inner.

We also have been denied any data from the autopsy of the creature found in Level 27, despite the potential for the life form to be carrying bacteria or viruses for which we have no remedy. Indeed, KDS are now actively denying any life form was found, despite several of our staff being present at the initial discovery. The truth, it seems, is now negotiable.

[molten tundra]

Are we even sure it's supposed to be a non human based sleeper

[eternal talon]

the log describes it teleporting, something only the creatures from destination we have seen be able to do.

[molten tundra]

Hmm.

[eternal talon]

The light ends about 25 meters from where the end of the tunnel. So I turned my headlamp on, but it’s not seeing too deep because there’s still bug dust from the blast. Then I hear this sound - like a popping sound or... a clap of air, like a seal closing. THWAP!

I start looking around in the dark and I see it. This creature. Just standing there, staring at me.

I ran. What do you think I did?
TEALE
Did it chase you?
E105
Yes. I started yelling. Werner heard me and shone her flashlight down the tunnel.
TEALE
But she didn’t see anything?
E105
No, it disappeared. I don’t know - just stopped chasing me.

Look, that’s a closed tunnel, you understand? It’s a dead end. They haven’t finished blasting it. There’s no way to get down there other than walking right by me and Werner, and nothing, no one, walked past us. That thing was already there, in the dark. That’s what that sound was. It like… teleported or something.

[molten tundra]

Huh

I wasn't under the impression the flyers could teleport

I thought they just came through the link because it went both ways

Like a portal

Or wormhole

[eternal talon]

they can open their own individual rifts in local spacetime for teleportation

just not between worldlines

you can also see them teleport in when they spawn in r6d2 and r7b1

[molten tundra]

Do they do it anywhere outside of that scripted bit in that mission

[eternal talon]

the teleportation effects is very similar to the effects on insight's reverse engineered allen teleporter

[eternal talon]

its their spawning effects.

regardless of mission

[molten tundra]

....huh.

Fair enough

[eternal talon]

they dont actually teleport mid-combat, but its how they spawn

they 'warp in'

[molten tundra]

I've uh

[eternal talon]

to wherever you are

[molten tundra]

Never actually seen them do it

So I probably never noticed

They always seemed to come from other rooms

[eternal talon]

kind of a bad picture, but this one does have their portal behind them

and what it looks like

[eternal talon]

they do come from other rooms. they spawn the same distance away as other sleepers usually, but even when they dont, its still the same fx

[molten tundra]

I'm assuming sleepers do not have this portal

I've never actually seen one spawn

[eternal talon]

just sometimes they have set specific spawns like the r6d1 reactor bridge

[eternal talon]

no, they just sorta 'pop' into existance

they have no special effects.

[molten tundra]

Which is probably a gameplay mechanic and not a lore thing

[eternal talon]

yeah.

[molten tundra]

I always assumed they were supposed to get around via vents

[eternal talon]

r7b1 in the last zone if you look in the top left corner by the door you can see them teleport in

when you put in the neonate

[molten tundra]

Seemed weird they never added places where you can see them enter the level

[eternal talon]

you do. a couple of the levels do

they are the only enemy that has these kinds of effects

[molten tundra]

Without teleporting?

Or did you mean flyers

[eternal talon]

normal sleepers dont teleport

i meant the fliers

[molten tundra]

Well

They sort of just appear

Which is functionally the same

[eternal talon]

yes but your never supposed to see normal sleepers spawn in

in a lot of levels you can see the floaters spawn

[molten tundra]

I always assumed it was an abstraction of them "coming out of the walls"

The normal sleepers

I see

[eternal talon]

here is a good up-close pic

[molten tundra]

....I don't remember them looking like that

Huh

Maybe it's the lighting

[molten tundra]

Why are their tentacles all in straight lines

And doesn't their middle normally glow yellow?

[eternal talon]

they pulse red.

[molten tundra]

Huh

[eternal talon]

because this picture is taken from an exploit.

they can't pathfind to me so they are stationary

[molten tundra]

I see

Have we gotten any information on what precisely the "parasite" that makes sleepers, is

[eternal talon]

**From: James Durant B255
To: Dean Lockwood A074
Date: June 13th 2054
Subject: Signal

Mr Lockwood,

We can assert categorically that both NAM-V and Parasitidae Garganta are extraterrestrial in origin. There is no way of knowing for sure if they evolved in the same location (or even if they evolved at all), but we do know that the environmental conditions for both lifeforms was at least very similar as their structural framework share many features. It is highly likely they have the same origin, wherever that may be.**

The progenitor of the relationship between the virus and the parasite is not clear, so I have been working under Dr. Dauda’s theory that the virus happened upon the parasite at some point, found it to be an appropriate host, and evolved to manipulate the behavior of the parasite to ensure transmission. We have also discovered that the extent of viral mutation within the parasites is unusually high. Each infected parasite carries it’s own mutation of the virus, which means that any host with multiple parasites will allow the mutated viruses to gene shuffle and create new strains. Many of the new strains lead to mutations of the host to varying degrees, resulting in the physical deformities we see in some hosts. This is almost certainly the cause of at least some of the abominations that have been uncovered as excavations towards the Inner continue.

However, I have also isolated hundreds of parasites that do not carry the virus and yet their behavior is identical to infected parasites, indicating the presence of collective intelligence. The parasites are highly social and will work together to ensure attachment to a host - using strategies that are far beyond the capability of an individual parasite. It is unlikely that these complex behaviors can all be attributed to implanted behaviors from the virus.

The relationship is certainly symbiotic. The virus triggers life-prolonging chemical production in the parasite, and the parasite provides a suspendable organic structure for the virus. The parasite transmits the virus to new hosts, and in turn the virus alters the behavior of the host to accept the presence of the parasite and inhibit the desire to remove it.

With so many mutations of NAM-V being created with each new host, there are potentially millions of strains of NAM-V that no longer require a parasite to transmit. This explains why Dr. Dauda’s research shows such resilience in the virus. It evolves everywhere, in every way. This virus is an omnipotent force of nature.

The only method we have found of killing the virus is by stopping the biological functions of the host through hydrostasis (or death). Fortunately, the parasites have not yet found a way into the HSUs. However, after hydrostasis reinfection is possible. We continue to improve our sterilization and prophylaxis methods, but we are fighting a losing battle. I see no future for us if we do not seek the origin of these lifeforms and find an immune genome. If we are to survive NAM-V, we must turn to the nature that created it. Evolution has had millions of years to fight the virus. We have months.

.

**---
Category: Weekly Notes 12/08 - 12/14 2054
Reported by: Dr. Gallus Hammerstein B014
Created: December 14th 2053
Modified: December 16th 2053

Book Title ideas:

• A revised Origin of the Species
• The Hammerstein Principle
• Fount of Truth
• Genesis Deciphered
• The Gallus Theory - The evolutionary of God’s Monsters**

## Abstract
This is the weekly report of Dr. Gallus Hammerstein, founder of Project Insight. I have been feeling under the weather. I have of course pushed through this and continued my exploration of the unknown, but it has been challenging. It is clear that many of my “comrades” are eager for an opportunity to take control of Project Insight, but none of them would dare directly challenge - even in my weakened state. My underlings are sheep in wolf’s clothing. They see themselves as capable leaders and yet their flaws are obvious and exploitable. Let them pine for my power. Non ducor, duco.

## Weekly Achievements
Despite my failing health, I have made some conceptual breakthroughs this week. Genome analysis of the creatures indicates many of them share no common ancestors at all. There are similarities between the genetic structure of the creatures, but their evolutionary paths are entirely unique. They are not branches; they are trees. This leads me to believe these creatures come from many different places. Has Gallus Hammerstein discovered not just life forms from other planets, but finally answered the question beyond the question? Not only is there life elsewhere, there is life everywhere? I think so, yes. My work speaks for itself.

The common factor between these creatures is the mutations, which are certainly caused by some process introduced by the parasite. The same mutations occur in compromised humans. Strangely the complexity and strength of the mutations increases the deeper we explore. We are even finding infested humans in some of the deep, unexplored chambers. It is as if they are drawn to something. Grubs to their queen perhaps?

## Goals
I need to complete the process of naming the parasites. I have instructed my staff to temporarily call them the Parasitidae Hammerstein, but I’m not sure if I like it yet.

**Book title! Enough procrastinating.

Remove those clearly attempting to undermine me and upset the balance of power. I have been ignoring their snide remarks and sideways glances for too long. Next week, the culling begins. God have mercy on those that cross Gallus Hammerstein!

Get well.

Dr. Gallus Hammerstein
Project Insight Lead Researcher & Founder.**

[eternal talon]

... the culling?

[molten tundra]

So is this parasite supposed to be.... a microorganism, or the giant tongue we see in most enemies, or what?

Do we know?

Is the tongue just a mutation caused by... the gene shuffling of multiple nam-v infections when a parasite is present?

[eternal talon]

we don't know. previously it was assumed that the tongue was the repurposed intestines of the host, but here is both in the same picture.

[molten tundra]

I'm not sure I understand the gene shuffling bit. If lots of variants are out there and they shuffle when you catch multiple, why would the parasite be needed for mutation?

I was under the impression the parasite was necessary for mutation to occur

[eternal talon]

the parasite is what creates the sleepers.

[eternal talon]

the full mutation

otherwise it will just leave mangled corpses.

like what we find in garganta

[molten tundra]

So... the mangled corpses that look like protosleepers

With their heads split open

That's just namv?

[eternal talon]

infected and killed, but didn't have the parasite to finish the transformation, correct.

[molten tundra]

...I see

[eternal talon]

and even if they did finish, they'd still be dead without the parasite to puppet the meat suits.

[molten tundra]

But for whatever reason they don't inhabit the already dead ones?

[eternal talon]

they do not. we find manymanymanymany corpses.

its not zombies.

the parasite needs a living host to convert, not to reanimate

[molten tundra]

Weird

[eternal talon]

until the host loses their senses, its quite possible that they are kept conscious without being able to control their bodies.

with strikers having the brain split in two, or whatever is going on inside the dome of the shooters.

[molten tundra]

It's interesting that it has to be living when the parasite can clearly continue to puppet a damaged body

And doesn't have any obvious visible physical presence

[eternal talon]

the virus can keep the parasite alive indefinitely. it would seem that it would also keep the host alive with it

so it probably just needs the first step to get a living host in the first place

to then keep it alive, even with extreme trauma

since it doesn't really need all the same bodily functions that we do

what would kill us, it can just take and keep on coming.

[molten tundra]

This assumes the chemicals that prolong the life of the parasite work on everything else too

[eternal talon]

again, i point to the floaters and the kraken.

[molten tundra]

Which... may be necessary to explain surviving dormant for 5.5 billion years

[eternal talon]

given its been many billions of years...

yeah

[molten tundra]

But if that's the case, it's surprising that the chemicals are only released if the parasite is present, or aren't just released afterwards?