gtfo-lore

[eternal talon]

why is it almost impossible to find propper footage of fliers from the back

[real pewter]

is this good enough?

[eternal talon]

no

we are talking specifically about an up-close on the crystals on their backs

rayalot doesn't believe they have any

here is one of the heavy fliers completely caked in crystals

fuck this, i'm just gonna go run b1

i will be back with your damn crystals

[eternal talon]

there was a really good pic in #gtfo-media but i couldn't find it

i filtered ALL messages between r6's launch and the launch of 6.5

they do, there are really good pictures of them

[green burrow]

I remember one of the destination logs mentions there's no native life found on Alpha One, yet there's grasses growing there. Dev oversight?

[eternal talon]

not really.

between then and r6b1, it has been somewhere close to..

hold on

about 765 years

on destination

because of the time dilation

and they brought plants with them

so it could be in the almost thousand years there, either plantlife has overtaken their outpost from elsewhere that they didn't find, or the plants they brought with them grew and evolved for this new landscape

[eternal talon]

@solar nova these are very clearly the same crystals, they are just imbedded into the carapace of the floater

the angles don't quite match up and look right if they were just some other part of the creature, they are solid blocks

also the fact they can teleport at all highly implies that these are THE crystals

given the MWP has the same

(not all of the crystals are transparent, or even opaque. some like the one pictured above is completely solid)

[south lake]

Since the crystals are very clearly growing out of the fliers, maybe they die and hit the ground once overgrown enough, and eventually turn into those crystal outcroppings?

[shut mountain]

Stupid idea but what if the crystals in the ground are flyers that hide below the ground / hybernate. Think of trees kinda deal. The flyer itself is the root, the big crystals on the back are the trunk and the crown of it essentially.

It is a stupid idea partially but I mean why not lmao

[eternal talon]

think how huge these ones would be were it the case

[shut mountain]

I mean, we have the Kraken

That thing is massive af, so would not be surprised if we had like giant flyers

Actually would be pretty dope to see

[lilac island]

SotC monsters, when?

[eternal talon]

sotc?

what's that?

oh, shadow of the colossus

[burnt wren]

Talking of the kraken

Are we sure we killed it?

I swear C2 secondary plays its' scream

[eternal talon]

it fell off the cliff, we didn't see it land.

[eternal talon]

which c2, r7s? also there could be more than one in that case, if we did kill it.

[lilac island]

if there's no corpse, it's not dead

[drowsy shuttle]

very true, I believe it will come back in the next rundown bigger and tougher than ever

[pseudo kelp]

Just gotta ask, where do you think the mothers come from?

Like, were they pregnant females that got infected and the virus/fungus/thing multiplied the unborn child into multiple ones?

[past matrix]

R5E1

[quick grove]

Hmmm

[eternal talon]

Duck beat you to it, warden.

[young hedge]

Hey question I like lurking in this channel though I never really interact in it but this is something I'm a wee curious about even if it's a bunch of silly questions probably answered before. I just like some... verification I guess on it? I'm still sort of new to the lore so bare with me.

I know it's something not recommended for them to do at all but if the prisoners took off their masks in the complex would they be alright at least for one expedtion? Since they're already technically infected with Nam-V and the HSUs and boosters allegedly help at least delay the affects? I'm talking more about places that aren't high infected by the way, since like it doesn't seem like even masks work in the highly infected areas unless they have boosters. I'm also curious if like there's anything pointing towards Schaeffer or Henriksson being masked? If that's affecting them if they're not? Also does the masks like emit any oxygen to the prisoners at all? I know there's lines in the files for that but there's no tanks on any of them to show use for it?

[eternal talon]

1. i have no idea, i've never thought about it.
2. schaeffer we don't know, but i'd assume so. henriksson, absolutely, since he is a KSO same as us.
3. they wouldn't emit oxygen where did you hear that? where in the files is that? that's quite strange. and they aren't gas masks, they are https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respirator

[young hedge]

Oh the oxygen thing is unreleased so I'm not too sure how much I can talk about that, but there's voice lines referring to it.

[eternal talon]

if it's unreleased then i'd completely ignore it from canon. there are also really old voice lines that never made it into the game with the warden talking afik

[young hedge]

Ah that's fair, also I didn't know that with the warden that neat

Actually wait maybe I did know that was the lines just Simon Viklund?

[eternal talon]

anything that's not been and isn't currently in the game might as well not exist in terms of canon

[eternal talon]

i do not remember. i remember seeing it on YT, but the video was deleted

[young hedge]

ah okay

actually one more question since this one's also been in my thoughts but it's been hinted or stated that Bishop was in destination for 2 years his time right? And 1 week for us? Would it be safe to assume that Bishop would've needed a reset after coming back to Kovac? Since 2 years under no command (after the others on the team died) and being out of HSU would presumably be damaging to his progress as a KSO

[eternal talon]

he was already a KSO at that point. his return is commented on in one of stokes' audio logs last rundown

he essentially came back with no emotion, didn't say anything to any of them, and just waited for kovac to return him to stasis

and he left with no emotion, so its kinda hard to tell from a brick wall

and wdym "reset"?

[young hedge]

No I know that he was a KSO when he was there, I'm referring to if he possibly gone back to any of his old thoughts, and having to go through a possible "reset" like mentioned in woods 2nd audio log, how if he still believed in a higher purpose they'd have no choice but to reset him

[eternal talon]

bishop wasn't like that, hold on

[young hedge]

And wouldn't he have to answer orders as an cooperative KSO? Unless he was deliberately asked to hold back information?

[eternal talon]

https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?p=9838b236770a4e7996ca563e4927b5fd&pm=s navigation log 4

it's audio.

[eternal talon]

he told them nothing.

[young hedge]

No I know he came back with no emotion and told them nothing, I'm not exactly sure what else you're trying to point out

[eternal talon]

you asked if he "possibly gone back to any of his old thoughts"

the answer is we don't know, he told them nothing.

[young hedge]

Yea I know there isn't any concrete answer, I'm asking if there's a possibility towards that considering he was away from HSU for so long?

[eternal talon]

not that i know of from the lore. a lot of the issues are related to certain frequencies of sound

[young hedge]

I thought the frequencies of sound thing was something to do with embedded behaviors from operatives, not anything to do with the HSUs?

Also I'm probably phrasing the bishop thing poorly I apologize for that, not too sure how else to explain it, I may be pulling my own assumptions into the mix.

[eternal talon]

they are to do with the KSOs, yes.

point being though, i don't really know of any downsides to staying out of hydrostasis

it took 2 years for some of our group to have their memories fully wiped in hydrostasis

once it is gone, i think the stuff with woods is the outlier, rather than the norm

since the devs description of him is " WOODS, ISAIAH F-2056
Isaiah Woods was a religious man of honor and courage who saw too much.
The brutality of combat changed him from a spiritual man to a ticking time bomb.
When his fuse finally burned down, he went on a rampage and justified it as divine retribution for the evils he saw around him.
Even now, with no memory of the carnage he wrought, he feels the presence of God flowing through him. Some fires burn too deep to smother."
sauce - https://gtfothegame.com/prisoners

[young hedge]

Doesn't Bishop have that fire with Davies though? It's mentioned in his description that he doesn't remember the man but that rage and mistrust is still there. Also Bishop was the one that was having problems with his memory being fully wiped, hes the one that it took 2 years to do. And we don't have any logs after his 2nd audio log putting him back in HSU besides the stokes logs, so we don't really know how he acted being fully wiped besides with who we play as now.

I think Woods is definitely an outlier because he wasn't permitted his "misguided belief system" but still clearly has it. Though I think a reset could happen to anyone that falls into a "faulty class designation" as said by the recruiter in his second log. I think Woods is the outlier in the case of a reset not working on him rather than him being the one Operative needing a reset.

[eternal talon]

**Now, unable to remember the man who destroyed him, he’s left with only the rage and mistrust that sustained his tragic existence. **

[young hedge]

I think with rereading some logs now- what I'm referring to is how it's recorded that operatives seem to deviate under a lot of stress, which I'm assuming is what Bishop had to deal with being the lone survivor of destination for 2 years

[eternal talon]

which log?

[young hedge]

https://www.notion.so/f46c0c48ecc14044b46d3093a7bf80cb?v=b161b05ae0c549489a92d244962c4167&p=255b2fca66ab443790dc2d010a41ac28&pm=c

The one mentioning the KSOs trouble with sound frequency ^^

This also mentions Genesis KSOs specifically which I think is interesting considering Bishops a Genesis

[eternal talon]

it would seem so, but he didn't give stokes or the scientists any reaction when he came back

[young hedge]

Trauma response?

[eternal talon]

i don't think so, because he talked, he just wouldn't tell them anything

navigation log 4 @ 0:33

[young hedge]

Personally if I deviated into a bit of my own free will again and I had to talk to the people that put me through some very heavy stress i think I would withhold information useful to them out of spite buttttt that's just me I dunno how Bishop rolls if he theoretically deviated

Kinda makes me wish we had lines about the stokes logs from him present day </3

[eternal talon]

to be fair he wouldn't have the mental capacity to realize that was the case

even henriksson was struggling to break his code with schaeffer, and that was with schaeffer intentionally trying to break it

[eternal talon]

stokes is most likely long dead.

it's 2064

her last log and ef01 was in 2055

(only 9 years our time, 765 years destination time) (THATS how crazy the time difference is between the world lines)

[young hedge]

That's true, it was two years though I'm not sure if that really means anything though just an observation

[eternal talon]

in our time, and to stokes, bishop was gone for just about a week

[young hedge]

I know that I mean a line referencing those specific logs with him in it. Kinda like the comments he makes of his own or the other prisoner logs

[eternal talon]

comments he makes of his own?

[young hedge]

oh wait worded that badly

[eternal talon]

OGVA-616-FY.LOG also calls him genesis

[young hedge]

An example of what I mean is when like Bishop listens to Hacketts log, he makes a comment like "Well, whatever they took from Hackett, they didn't take the a hole out, did they?" After, I was wondering why we didn't get something similar for the audio logs mentioning or featuring him for destination

that took forever because discord kept on deleting my message argghh

[young hedge]

That's towards his first two audio logs not the destination ones

[eternal talon]

this is the only thing i can find on his reaction to hacket's log

[young hedge]

he has two

I have the other one somewhere hhhhh need to find it

[eternal talon]

https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?p=ee8d0dd09e6c493997aea1bbc264e0b1&pm=s

it looks like it's 1 for each and 2 for the character in question

for all of these

[young hedge]

wait i got the lines mixed up aaaaa okay nevermind i didn't find the voiceline in my folder yet hold on let me link that video back

[eternal talon]

i wouldn't trust anything outside of game or done by community research

dont link it. it says in the description

[young hedge]

its on the wiki

oh shoot my bad didn't see that

good thing i deleted that

[eternal talon]

a LOT of the lore stuff on YT that is uploads of raw content is datamined/unreleased

and as such, it's not canon and shakey ground here

[young hedge]

still the lines on the wiki

[eternal talon]

can you link me the wiki page?

the wiki is fine,

i know some of the guys that research that down in #wiki-chat a couple channels down

their stuff is legit

[young hedge]

https://gtfo.fandom.com/wiki/Bishop

here it is if you don't want to look in the voiceline part

[eternal talon]

that's bizarre, what's that supposed to mean in this context?

[young hedge]

what do you mean?

i just mentioned it as an example of like, a line after a voice log referring to the log and how it'd be neat if bishop had something similar for when he hears the destination logs

[eternal talon]

obviously he isn't saying "they didn't kill them" because he is with hackett

so what does he mean by "take the a*shole out"

[young hedge]

I'm sorry I'm confused now

when he says "take the a*shole out" he means they didn't take his attitude out

[eternal talon]

"well, whatever they took from hackett, they didn't take the as*hole out, did they?"

[eternal talon]

if thats the case, then i don't see what the relavance would be to his memories

being a dick isn't a memory, it's a personality trait

[young hedge]

i think its just supposed to be a snarky comment towards Hackett nothing really thoughtful

[eternal talon]

besides, our squad is on a much longer leash under WRDN than under Kovac

if you compare the stokes log bishop to the bishop in game

it's like two different people

[young hedge]

I would think he would at least make a comment on the stokes logs, at the very least him mentioning he doesn't remember it or something, like he does with his own logs

[eternal talon]

none of them do during r6c1 at all

and they are all played over the intercom

they aren't terminal logs

[young hedge]

yeah i know that i'm mentioning how its a shame that they don't

i mean they have lines about being in destination, i just find it weird that they don't have any before it

[eternal talon]

wdym before it?

[young hedge]

with the stoke log over the intercom

[eternal talon]

they first visit destination in a1 technically, and get to explore in in b1

[young hedge]

oh wait thats not before it i forgot

[eternal talon]

the stokes logs aren't until c1

[young hedge]

I'm referring to the destination log right before they put the matter wave projector in if i remember correctly

i don't how how to refer to the audio over the intercom i think that's what's been confusing I apologize

basically I'm referring to whenever stokes mentions bishop over the intercom

[eternal talon]

i think she only mentions bishop in 1 of the 2 possible logs in b1

that might be why

[young hedge]

i thought she mentions him in both?

[eternal talon]

i can link them, 1 sec

i'm mid-game rn so i can't check

https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?p=b894d7a054f04b378a5f2441edaf13d5&pm=s

[young hedge]

i'm looking at the transcripts on the wiki she refers to bishop in both

[eternal talon]

bishop may not know they are talking about him and not another person named bishop? idk

[young hedge]

he talks himself in the audio

[eternal talon]

when?

okay i heard him in v1

hm

idk then

[young hedge]

yeah, not sure why he doesn't say anything just thought it was odd

[radiant hearth]

Hide on the rocks

[eternal talon]

are you outside of the map?

that terrain looks hella bugged

if so, why post it here? that wouldn't be canon

"i noclip a bit crouched" it says in your chat

you shouldn't post modded stuff here.

<@&408548765599793173>

[heady mortar]

Yeah I definitely wouldn't consider a door outside of the playable area to be relevant to the lore

[main citrus]

It's not no-clip though lol, you can literally see through that wall by getting close to it on C2

not saying it is lore related, just saying it's not modded

[compact sinew]

No one has yelled at anyone. Please remember to stay civil here.

[eternal talon]

Hm? Did I miss something?

[subtle verge]

I refuse to be civil and will be posting passive-aggressive and intentionally slightly wrong theories in protest.

[dim scroll]

based

[finite vine]

I don't think he was outside the map.. There are doors like that everywhere in destination. Its where the sleepers come from during waves.

[eternal talon]

Yes, that's because that's where the enemies have to spawn from. But they are hidden in all rooms but r6.5bx and dx.

His picture was under the map in an solid white/orange untextured textured wall with broken terrain.

[finite vine]

You can see some doors on B3 I think? The one where you have to retrieve the data cubes.

[eternal talon]

Yes but this is not where he was

He was on c2? I think? Or b2?

The picture is gone and I don't remember what it was specifically

But just trust me on this, he was nowhere you could just "see it", shit looked like an unfinished unity project

[finite vine]

Yea I saw it too. I just assumed his graphics were on low or something.

[eternal talon]

There was a flat hole in the map in the ground in front of him

I don't even know where the door would be, in c2, if thats the level, it's down a steep hill and is blocked by like 6 invisible walls that don't let you get down there

B2, I dont remember if you go to destination in it

[eternal talon]

It's not that bad.. I run my game on low settings all the time to get the best fps..

[real pewter]

what is the lore for R7C3?

the warden ran out of ammo and drop us in to get more?

[finite vine]

there probably isn't any lore for it tbh

[empty junco]

from my understanding the warden always gives us less than what we're "supposed" to have, more than likely just there to make the level difficult and unique. if there's a log in the level then there might be an explanation but i don't think there is haha

[real pewter]

when you open c3 description, it said you are task to do an uplink to get resources

it's like the warden is "out of resources" and tell the prisoner to get some themself

[severe prairie]

I like how everyone just settles for the 'the warden is a dick' answer very quickly XD

[burnt wren]

He's not really a dick, just resource efficient

He gives exactly as much as you need, probably calculated for loot you find in the level itself

Would be a sham if he filled prisoners to the brim with his stocks, then they extract from a mission leaving like 5 uses of ammopack behind

[sonic citrus]

cough R6 😛

[pearl wave]

any lore on why stamina?

[burnt wren]

Lore stamina: homo sapiens have stamina and often run out of energy when sprinting in full gear for a while.

[tranquil owl]

Homo sapiens are humans?

[pearl wave]

were humans some years ago

[pearl wave]

still aint ingame lore

[south lake]

Breathing through heavy duty gas mask filters is a bitch and a half even on the best of days. Double that if the filters are dirty. Only "lore" you need.

If anything it's unrealistic to not have the visor fog up from sweat and condensation from heavy breathing after about fifteen to twenty minutes.

Can imagine the prisoners get one hell of a neckache wearing those bulky things all the time, too.

[pearl wave]

we dont know if we really true humans

[clever niche]

“We are not so different you and I”

[pearl wave]

i still have no ingame statement of how ingame worlds humans are composed

[stuck aspen]

they look human

they sound human

their background is human

constantly running around with gear thats most likely half of your body weight is gonna be a bitch

multiply that fatigue by wearing the heavy duty respirators/dust masks 24/7

[late raven]

Do we know if the pods in any way affect the muscles/stamina?

and also their constant switch between being in the pods only to be let out to only do mentally and physically straining tasks just to get back into the pods immedietly afterwards.

[eternal talon]

for all intensive purposes, when someone enters an HSU, they are just about physically "dead" until they are reawoken. almost nothing about their status will change.

it's like a medically induced coma that shuts down your body and keeps it suspended with chemicals

[late raven]

so their bodies will be in constant state of "just finnished another mission"?

[eternal talon]

from the prisoner's point of view, it's basically, getting in the pod, the pod closes, and instantly the pod is opening again

not that it really matters, KSOs aren't designed to have free will, so they just go along with it.

most of them were in hydrostasis for years under kovac scientists to make sure they lost all of their memories before their training even began.

bishop is a good example of this with his audio logs

[late raven]

shouldnt their bodies/ minds break down from the constant stress? I mean they might forget stuff gradually but their bodies never get to rest

[eternal talon]

HSU continually wipes memories depending on how long stays in it are.

they don't remember the previous mission by the time the next one starts.

we don't know the time difference between expeditions in a rundown,

but given how hydrostasis works, their bodies would get maintained while in the coma

its described as being like a massive artificial womb

[late raven]

Wait so wounds sustained during a mission would get healed in the HSU?

as long as its not too heavy

[finite vine]

No, not necessarily

HSU is like a pause for the body. And during that pause, we are probably fed and re-hydrated through tubes and such

[vast lance]

oh man just read the story bit

its really awesome, would be so chill to have a film or series about this stuff

[stuck aspen]

whats the OSIP hormone for and why did warden need it for C2 overload

[burnt wren]

Not sure about chill. This is 100% horror movie.
If we were to get one - seeing the complex get overrun would probably be the best bet.

[burnt wren]

I think it's something Warden uses for growing / enhancing neonates. Last 2 rundowns are entirely about him being dedicated to just that, so it's the only thing that makes sense.

[pearl wave]

didnt we have somewhere where we saw what osip stands for?

[harsh saffron]

Omega sleep inducing peptides

[burnt wren]

The what, what and what?

[cobalt mulch]

the bleeps, the creeps and the sweeps

[harsh saffron]

this can be further supported by the ficticious chemical "OSIP" or "Omega Sleep-Inducing Peptide", based off of DSIP or Delta Sleep-Inducing Peptide, which is a chemical naturally produced in the brain that seems to put humans in their lowest mental functioning

Sleepy Juice

[pearl wave]

ah so one of the hyper sleeps=

?*

[eternal talon]

2005 doom movie is literally the plot of gtfo change my mind

[burnt wren]

No mars.

But actually fairly close.

[eternal talon]

Aside from Mars. The plot is almost identical

[burnt wren]

I unironically like that movie.

[eternal talon]

Ikr, it's great

1)scientists uncover aliens
2) genetic testing
3) people become monsters
4) place gets overrun
5) soldiers sent in to recover data

[burnt wren]

Urban does great as military dudes

[eternal talon]

Reaper

I was rewatching that movie recently and I couldn't help but notice how close it is

[eternal talon]

Hahaha space balls, I love it

[burnt wren]

I wasn't even trying to reference it either, kek

[somber gazelle]

Sooooooo what exacty is the neonate and why does it grow to human size in D1.....

[burnt wave]

It's another mimic
Trust me bro

[eternal talon]

Mimic was a temporary term.

[burnt wave]

What's the new term

[eternal talon]

Background: Project Rise was designed by insight to be an alternative to/ replacement for Kovac's Legion program. Basically, it takes human "seeds" and rapidly matures them into adults fully subservient to Insight. However, this program was never finished, as resulting neonates still had the mental capacity of children.

Answer: the SUBJECTS or UNITS as they have been renamed after r6dx, are the Warden's manipulation of what is left over from the rise project. Wrdn's units are essentially rise neonates, but manipulated with and infused with NAM-V in a way that makes them invisible to sleepers. This is what the "mimic" was, what U22 was in r6dx, what u23 is in r7, and what the neonate from rundown 2-3 was.

[eternal talon]

Under team insight, subjects.
Under Warden, Units.

[burnt wave]

Thanks I can spread misinformation more accurately now
Cool lore though was too busy struggling with R6DX to read anything

[eternal talon]

If you are struggling with the lore, we have the "for dummies" doc in the pins that summarizes all pre-appcalypse lore,

And the "summary of expeditions" which is post apocalypse/during gameplay

We also have the community database with all the logs, the notion.so, also in the pins if you just wanted to read them yourself

[burnt wave]

Oh gracias I'll actually do that

[eternal talon]

o7

[deep lodge]

Hey I just joined with r7, not sure what U22 or U23 is and couldn't find anything about them when I looked it up

[burnt wren]

Those are the short names for neonates #22 and #23.

22 was in R6 and was killed by Schauffer.
23 is the one we're trying to produce in R7

[eternal talon]

Unit 22 was a full grown neonate we found at the end of r6dx.

I'm on my phone right now, but if you use the search function in this channel you can find pictures of it

Aha! Here

[livid grotto]

don't mind the yellow arrow

[eternal talon]

Aw man, you missed the hole in his head in your pic.

[lilac beacon]

this feels like a shitpost thumbnail with 3 red arrows but its actually needed here lmao

[eternal talon]

here is a better one

[lilac beacon]

honestly would have expected schaeffer to make up the whole thing in a hallucination

[eternal talon]

immediately after that voice log, warden goes "oh shit" and sends us to confirm status of u22.

[real pewter]

here's a question

is unit 22 come from the future?

[eternal talon]

no

it was born ~~ seconds ago

[real pewter]

[eternal talon]

this many seconds ago

look into RISE

thats just how it works

[lilac beacon]

💀

u22 living for some seconds to die some seconds later

[eternal talon]

Warden's Units are a recreation and manipulation of what is left over from rise.

[eternal talon]

^

[eternal talon]

^

[lilac beacon]

cant wait for u23 to be absolutely cracked super soldier

[eternal talon]

its all in the "for dummies" doc

given what we have seen with u22, it should be an adult by the extension at earliest, and r8 at latest.

[lilac beacon]

the neonate at the end of r7?

[real pewter]

that was u23

we're making another one

[eternal talon]

the neonate we create in r7, yes. "unit 23" as it is called

[eternal talon]

thats the name of a1 bruh

[real pewter]

ye

[lilac beacon]

i hate the baby

[eternal talon]

we also work on it in b1 and d1.

we don't see it after d1.

[real pewter]

i wanna see what shenanigans schaeffer and henrikson are going to do in R8

[eternal talon]

realistically? i can't even predict.

they had us install a direct jack into the biocom network for them

so there are certainly some big implications

[real pewter]

i think we will just use the warden objective to get extra stuff

[eternal talon]

Also nothing is from the future. This has been thoroughly disproved with the two new stokes logs. Destination is in its own world line where time works fundamentally differently, but it is still localized. Bishop was on destination for what he perceived as 2 years in destination time, but when he returned to earth in our world line, only one week had passed.

It is an 85:1 ratio in seconds difference between the two world lines

For another example, between the launch of ef01 and right now, it has been only about 9 years earth time, but 765 years destination time.

So theoretically the time gap between these two world lines would get longer over time, but in transitioning between the two you are still relative to the local time of the target location

Stokes' talk about going to the "past or future" is indicative of this, as technically destination is in the future, but since it is on a different world line or plain of existence, no impact can be carried back to our own world line that would be in the future.

And as for the past, that is a bit more complicated, but it could be another iteration of a world line where time works differently.

Yes, these two logs are a fucking nightmare to understand.

Can you tell?

[finite vine]

time runs faster on destination than on earth because destination has a different “quantum frequency”

[eternal talon]

Yes.

It is the difference between the quantum frequency that is each world line

The destination in our universe is not the destination we visit. We use the coordinates for our universe's destination, as well as whatever the MWP does, to teleport us to their version of destination in their world line.

The MWP changes the frequency that our particles that make up us vibrate at as to allow us to.. access, for lack of a better term, this world line and travel back and forth.

[pearl wave]

to establish a quantum connection allowing the mwp to shift our quantum frequencies to the neccessary frequencies?

[finite vine]

I hope we get another log describing how the MWP works. The current one we have only really talks about the "quantum frequency", and that the MWP take's people to "dimensions"

[eternal talon]

Essentially, yes.

[eternal talon]

The two log we have explain enough, it's just really stupidly complicated. As is the nature of anything like this. Wayy. Too. Complicated.

Nevertheless, this is what we have for the next few months until they announce an extension, or later if they skip one.

I don't think they will ever elaborate on the specifics on how it works, given it's allen tech and they definitely don't like giving much info on them, or their stuff.

Partially because of mystery, and partially because you need an extragalactic brain to write an extragalactic civilization

And it probably isn't the easiest of the logs to write and elaborate on.

[finite vine]

well it is video game lore, it does not really need to make a lot of sense

I mean it’s alien dimensional teleportation, that’s probably as unrealistic as you can get with modern science

[autumn trout]

Ok, so, bit of a dumbass here, very very new to the lore, and sorry if this has been asked a bunch.
So either some comet stuff or a drill related thing caused the big ol' hole we enter when we do missions, but why does the metal/concrete/etc go upwards, assuming this is ever explained

[harsh saffron]

There was an energy surge coming from the massive "fossil" below the surface which resulted in multiple blast tunnels to the surface in october 2053.

[eternal talon]

it was a massive explosion from the inner.

we don't know what set it off, but it would seem most likely it would have to do with the sound frequencies that Dr. gallus hammerstein was testing, as that log is the day before the blast.

[autumn trout]

ah, that'd do it i reckon

[eternal talon]

it shot its way through great many columns of earth and molten metal all the way to the surface, thousands of meters of rock and stone like it was nothing.

we enter the complex with HSU freight lifts through these holes.

[autumn trout]

that explains a bunch actually, yeah, thanks

[eternal talon]

i'd reccomend reading the "for dummies" doc in the pins, it explains a lot of the simple background lore like this.

but if you have any other questions at anytime, we are always here.

oh, and don't be sorry to ask for the lore, personally, i don't mind. i'm always happy to help and talk about it 🙂

[harsh saffron]

We don't really have much info on any of the enemies rn sadly

[real pewter]

how about prediction for shadow enemy backstory then

[harsh saffron]

Easy!
In contrast to all the other sleepers we can actually see, Shadows exist in multiple dimensions at the same time. This results in the human brain being unable to decipher the now jumbled information we are normally receiving through our eyes, rendering them "invisible".

[real pewter]

now the devs has a lore in hand

[burnt wren]

I would argue they are a namv induced hallucination, but then turrets still shoot at them, so that's unlikely.

[dim scroll]

They make no sense theorically speaking

As they're both transparent & opaque to light at the same time

[green burrow]

Them being present in multiple dimensions also seemed the most likely theory.

[eternal talon]

Two problems with that theory.

[shrewd cloak]

[eternal talon]

1. that would require a garganta in the destination world line for them to be in to be in both at once and not hundreds of feet underground in solid dirt and stone,

And 2) if 1 is true, what is the point of the dimensional travel if the devs could just have that be our earth instead?

My personal best guess for the shadows is some kind of light manipulation, like some fish can do in the sea, but a much more developed kind of it.

[burnt wren]

I'd still prefer hallucinations.

Easier than to explain light bullshit.

Or multiverse bullshit.

Hardcore case it could be some kind of anti-psyche defensive mechanism

It's not that they're invisible, but they convince the characters that they are

Some hallucinogenic pheromone or whatever

Would also explain why turrets can still aim at them

[harsh saffron]

Just wanted to say that I was 100% just joking with the multiple dimension stuff ^^

[real pewter]

ye

it was supposed to be a dream

[dense kelp]

I wonder what happened to the mimic

[real pewter]

he died

[burnt wren]

Warden made the guy invisible to sleepers, but it died to a fucking KSO

[dense kelp]

I thought that was Schaffer clubbing u22

[burnt wren]

U22 and the mimic are the same entity

[dense kelp]

seems like a shame the mimic was kind of interesting as an alternative to Schaeffer

[burnt wren]

Unless you're asking about U23

[dense kelp]

Facts?? i thought u22 was made in rundown 6

I guess I need to reread those logs

[burnt wren]

U22 was the one in R6 and the one that got killed

In R7 we begin by trying to make a new and improved U23

[dense kelp]

I have no idea why that was postable

anyway, I see thanks I guess

odds Schaeffer clubs this one to death also?

[burnt wren]

Warden is adamant on creating one to have someone be able to traverse the complex without having to gun down entire hordes every goddamn door

[burnt wren]

Relatively low, me thinks. Warden certainly learned from his "mistake" as it was U22 who was trying to contact Schaeffer and not the other way around.
Schaeffer is now officially on shit list and Warden will remove him from complex at first opportunity.

[real pewter]

feel like the warden are planning to replace the KSO

if you think about it

U22 already a good replacement since it can just walk among the sleeper without them attacking it

the warden just need a better version where it can go down and bring stuff back to the Warden

[green burrow]

Speaking of Shaeffer and Klaus, what do they eat now that they're both out of hydrostasis?

[dim scroll]

there are probably military rations

plants as well

[burnt wren]

There are pumpkins in gardens' biome, and presumably there has to be food somewhere in the complex because the local staff had to eat something - there have to be cafeterias, personal stashes at the living rooms, etc.
It's just that we never seen any of those, but maybe Schaeffer found an access to at least some.

[eternal talon]

there are, not that schaeffer would know it. he talked about one while he was making his way to KDS deep

[vagrant fiber]

Can the Warden force us to kill someone against our will like override our bodies. Given how easily manipulated we are by legion and the implant?

[burnt wren]

Hmmmm

50/50

[eternal talon]

Well consider this, very early on the wrdn had a kso stand in a broom closet for 5 minutes flat

[burnt wren]

KSOs are super brainwashed to be real happy to complete their objectives

But so far their objectives never were morally questionable

[eternal talon]

I don't think we ever really see any emotion from KSOs, aside from our team

And even bishop, before being a part of our team was on destination for 2 years, and didn't seem to really care about it upon returning to garganta. He just waiting for Kovac to come pick him up.

[vagrant fiber]

Bishop was in Valencia during the Revolution

And got blackmailed

[eternal talon]

He did the blackmailing.

And I'm referring to ef01

[vagrant fiber]

I see

What is the point of legion erasing memories to turn people into hollow shells that can operate as highly capable multifaceted weapons?

[eternal talon]

Kovac is a private military contractor

[vagrant fiber]

Warden can screw with us given he overrided BIOCOM.

[eternal talon]

To get am army of slaves that you don't have to pay.

[vagrant fiber]

"Prisoners"

Makes sense

[eternal talon]

-and can use to get even more slaves

[vagrant fiber]

Warden made the mimic didn't he?

[eternal talon]

yes.

though that had nothing to do with legion.

he made s22 with the leftovers from the abandoned project rise.

[vagrant fiber]

Leftovers

[eternal talon]

yep.

from "for dummies" doc:

What is the RISE Project?

Project RISE was an unfinished program meant to be a substitute, alternative to, or to supplement dwindling stocks for the Legion Program. RISE was designed to take fresh human seeds and grow them rapidly into adults to serve for Kovac and Project Insight.
Issues with this are still present during the events of the game as subjects like U22 found in R6DX still have the mental capacity of children and are unable to function to full capacity with orders given to them by the WRDN.
Other than this, not much else is known about RISE or its features as of Rundown 7. As more information becomes available, this section will be flushed out and added to as time permits.

no, rise came after.

[vagrant fiber]

How the hell did it not go feral like the rest of the sleepers NAM-V isn't exactly human friendly.

[eternal talon]

@burnt wren me got some good pics of the A1 warehouse the other day.

[vagrant fiber]

That's unnerving

[eternal talon]

somehow, and we don't know how, probably some manipulation with nam-v, the Units are invisible to sleepers.

[burnt wren]

I mean

Sleepers don't seem to just attack things randomly

These boxes make no sounds or anything...

[vagrant fiber]

Yeah light and sound stimulus causes aggressive response

Passive until provoked

[eternal talon]

don't forget touch, they go red instantly, and it causes scouts to go blue da ba de da ba dae

[vagrant fiber]

Yeah what of the Abductor creature?

[eternal talon]

jerry?

[vagrant fiber]

Jerry?

[eternal talon]

we have no idea where it came from, or any info on it.
though the giant broken vat in the center of the room does give credence to some theories that it could be genetically engineered.

[burnt wren]

That's his unofficial nickname around here

[eternal talon]

as there are albeit smaller, but similar tanks with other kinds of sleepers in various zones.

[vagrant fiber]

Understood its sole purpose is KSOnapping can KSOs become sleepers?

[eternal talon]

presumably, yes. we would be equally edible.

[vagrant fiber]

Warden wants to Kill Schaeffer now doesn't he?

[eternal talon]

most likely, given his units are in limited number.

after the audio log of schaeffer bashing it's brains in with a lead pipe, wrdn sent us to check on its status almost immediately

[vagrant fiber]

Warden doesn't care about us just we are just tools.

[eternal talon]

that is true of just about anything to it.

means to an end of which we do not know.

[vagrant fiber]

Warden is it a A.I or something more

[eternal talon]

it is an ai, yes.

specifically a Decision Intelligence

[vagrant fiber]

Has it gained free will

[eternal talon]

an ai basically designed to think

[eternal talon]

ehh, that's way too complicated to know, as we don't know who intalled it.

we don't know who made it either

[vagrant fiber]

So it's separate from Kovac

[eternal talon]

again, we don't know.

though it was installed in their system and in the latter days it wouldn't work with kovac, it would seem likely.

[vagrant fiber]

Then the BIOCOM incident

[eternal talon]

which one?

[vagrant fiber]

The one which Warden assumes direct control

[eternal talon]

we don't know when that was or anything around the specifics of it.
there are no logs.

we can only estimate.

[livid grotto]

Oh I thought the Warden was under Kovac

[eternal talon]

Biocom was

[livid grotto]

Ye

[eternal talon]

wrdn took over the biocom network.

[livid grotto]

But isn’t kovac who installed the warden protocol on BIOCOM?

or I might be wrong

[eternal talon]

probably not, but we don't know.

[livid grotto]

Alright

[eternal talon]

we have no information on the subject.

[livid grotto]

I hope they will be able to finish the story before they go on making an another game

[eternal talon]

this terminal log in d2 shows the biocom network, unable to be fully subdued, attempting to delete the WRDN protocol, and the warden resetting it just before it finishes, over and over and over and over and over

probably millions of times by now.

[vagrant fiber]

Given this Warden is persistent

[eternal talon]

well to be fair when the alternative is the biocom network finally deleting the invasive file controlling it,

WRDN is basically puppeting biocom, and biocom is trying to cut the strings.

[vagrant fiber]

WRDN has it killed anyone?

[eternal talon]

oh god most likely.

[vagrant fiber]

Confirmed? In direct doesn't count

[eternal talon]

give me one second to check a log

otherwise, none directly.

[vagrant fiber]

Copy

[eternal talon]

wrdn locked this person down in a restricted zone and given the end of the log, the lockdown probably got him killed.
https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?p=860f5b5e30304a4fa8f9e554b95a4bdd&pm=s

this one that would result in an overload of the power network which would probably get a lot of people killed from the sleepers breaching areas under lockdown
https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?p=2909f58bdedc4c3a8570f3d6ad3309a1&pm=s

then again, this could be the opposite, with WRDN attempting to kill all infected KSOs in hydrostasis.
https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?p=393c204fd8cd41508822f660f85f03b1&pm=s

[vagrant fiber]

Warden just cutting off loose ends

[eternal talon]

we found s22 in a data vault, we've only seen two of them before, and given it was following schaeffer, who knows what he was doing in there.

[pearl wave]

trying to find the location of the people he wants in his team?

[vagrant fiber]

Maybe to act as his proxy

To be with the KS0s on mission

The Project Rise subjects.

Imagine if Warden could upload his consciousness into a Giant Striker

[real pewter]

last time he starved and refuse to eat

so i'm still not sure if he actually eat

[vagrant fiber]

How long can someone remain in hydro stasis

[real pewter]

you can in hsu forever

you just lose your memory

[vagrant fiber]

Ever if you were not part of Legion

[real pewter]

schaeffer did manually open a HSU and put himself in to survived the starvation

[vagrant fiber]

No aging just amnesia

[real pewter]

basically captain america stuff

you freeze everything

[vagrant fiber]

I see

[real pewter]

you also get nutrition while in HSU i think

[vagrant fiber]

Also they are g force immune

Giving how fast we descend

And don't pass out

[real pewter]

the bad thing is

you can't open the pod yourself

idk how schaeffer get out of the pod himself but, you can't open the pod yourself

so if you get in one, you basically time travel

[vagrant fiber]

Fun

[real pewter]

i step in the pod and woke up the next decade

[vagrant fiber]

Kinda scary

[real pewter]

you also lose your memory

so that's extra step

[vagrant fiber]

Lose how far

[real pewter]

the prisoner we played in

lose all of their memory

[vagrant fiber]

KSO level

I thought Legion Program did that

Not the just the HSU

[eternal talon]

schaeffer was hold up and locked inside KDS deep. it is safe to assume there were no rations there for him to eat, as it was one small isolated sector.

[eternal talon]

fun fact, that is the origins of legion program itself. the HSUs were designed for the red alpha mission to mars, and the memory loss was an unintended side-effect, but was taken advantage of as part of the core makeup of legion.

https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?p=d9d05623054a4f3fb6f3e0792fc6e502&pm=s
https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?p=e7c89118ef9d49609387b888e8d05398&pm=s
https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?p=f9a9feb869394e64ab4906ca5fafd4c4&pm=s
https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?p=c7b0ee7c81e24748abc927201fcc8c9d&pm=s

[eternal talon]

ehh, that is very deep in the fantasy setting, nothing we know of would make that possible.

[vagrant fiber]

True given Warden we do not know his capabilities

[eternal talon]

TLDR on Hydrostasis:

designed for trip to mars (red alpha), with world funding. used, astronauts go into stasis, wake up midway through the trip, go crazy, kill eachother, earth loses contact with red alpha. huge controversy, funding is pulled. Kovac goes private with the hydrostasis technology, use it's unintended side-effect as a core feature in it's newest endeavor, the legion program

[vagrant fiber]

Noted interesting

[eternal talon]

yeah, but taking over the already puppeted corpse of a sleeper.. is a bit much

[vagrant fiber]

Rise units were more malleable but stunted

[eternal talon]

Rise subjects are still human

they are created with human "seeds", let me link the log for you to read, 1 second

[vagrant fiber]

So they are not sleepers

[eternal talon]

https://www.notion.so/ab68b94496bd4b27bec291de65ebd510?v=9c98784771d740f3b605ff63763b4963&p=bd87743403c54cd3a931792bbf13480e&pm=s

[vagrant fiber]

Just Schaeffer goes off the deep end due to it mentioning Warden.

[eternal talon]

no, the original subjects under team insight definitely were not, they were just humans, that were designed to be 100% loyal to insight.

as for WRDN's units and what he is doing with the remains of the rise program, yeah, they have nam-v in them, but they aren't sleepers. they are still mostly human, they just have the intellect of children, you can tell this easily from the many audio logs in r6 with subject 22/ the mimic.

that was one of the primary problems with the rise project anyhow, even under team insight

they grow into adults extremely rapidly (6-8 hours), but are stunted with the mental capacity of a child

i can go through and link you the audio logs if you'd like to take a listen

[vagrant fiber]

Wait the woman in Hackett's audio log 2 is Angela. Okay I see a alternative to Legion was Rise.

[eternal talon]

was she? the doctor in the player audio logs was working for Kovac.

i don't recall a name

anyway, here are the s22 logs https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?p=680debf6b20a4212a311daccbd5041b3&pm=s

there are a total of 6 audio logs.

[vagrant fiber]

I listened to all the audio logs 1 through 6

Hearsay Archive on YouTube

[eternal talon]

did you play r6?

we got a lot of great lore and locations last rundown.

@burnt wren i don't know if you've noticed, but there is someone else alive and active down in the complex. HSU 666.

this isn't schaeffers' since he was in KDS deep, and it isn't henriksson or maddox since those were in the warehouse.

we have an unidentified KSO running about.

and it's only the one HSU, so they aren't under a squad from WRDN

[vagrant fiber]

Negative last played rundown was 4

Trying to get caught up

Lore wise

[green burrow]

Concerning Shaeffer getting out of his HSU, wasnt he deployed by the Warden just like us, but managed to escape when his teammates died?

He mentions being with three others in one of his early logs.

[eternal talon]

yes.

the warden obtained him somehow from KDS deep before it had access to KDS deep and deployed him with a squad.

[burnt wren]

666 is a real nice touch

[vagrant fiber]

If his name was Adam that would be the cherry on top.

[finite vine]

that hsu could be like years old. how do you figure that hsu_666 was opened recently?

there were a ton more opened hsu’s in that room anyway

[burnt wren]

Also true

But in that case we have to ask what's so special about that particular HSU that warden really needed us to scan it

[finite vine]

I don’t think we were scanning hsu_666 (the open one)

[burnt wren]

The positioning of it is very weird. It's right in front of it. It really does feel like we're meant to be starring at it while scanning. Not to mention that the scan only activates when we touch it.

Clearly Warden wants something from it, but couldn't even begin to have an idea of what.

[dense kelp]

On the topic of Maddox I remember reading the lore on it but why was he important?

[finite vine]

true, it does seem important.

[dense kelp]

I remember Shaeffer just kinda beat him up after Maddox became somewhat delirious, or was that someone else

[finite vine]

but the only evidence: the hsu is open, so there must be a kso running around right? well, there are a lot of other hsu’s open in that level as well. we have also seen open hsu’s in r4

[dense kelp]

You think maybe they can be opened by sleepers?

[burnt wren]

Doesn't seem to be the case

R6B1 weren't even touched

And Dauda saves himself by hiding in one

Sleepers get in like 30 seconds after he gets inside and he clearly survives (although that could be because it got out of reach or something)

For creatures capable of breaking down large metal doors they seem to have an issues with getting inside HSUs. Those things seem to fucking last.

And those that are open are just that. They're not broken, not massacred, they are just open and empty

[finite vine]

yes maddox was very agitated once schaeffer opened his hsu because schaeffer didn’t use the fluid collection case upon opening the hsu, so maddox’s spine and brain started to liquify or something like that. the log explaining that is found in a1.

[dense kelp]

That sounds rather horrific

[burnt wren]

I'm not sure that's what happened, but clearlyt something went awry

[finite vine]

the log is found in a1 i believe

[burnt wren]

Schaeffer didn't follow the proper wake up procedure and Maddox immediately went insane upon waking up

"Okay, come on John… you can fix this!
Notes… Notes, notes, notes, notes…
Here… hydrostasis revival…

“Before the synthiotic fluid transfusion begins,
a hydrokinetic solution must be administered to prevent…
catastrophic neocortical tissue collapse.
Without it, the subject will become violent and exhibit uncontrolled…”

“The solution is automatically administered by the D.I. controller
prior to the reanimation procedure. However, should the HSU be isolated
from a capable interface, the solution must be administered manually.”

Manually? Oh… Maddox. Okay, where do I get it?

Preparation… no… procedure… research! Let’s see…
“The study of hydrokinetic energy production in plants has provided a foundation for synthesizing hydrokinetic solution and other revival…”

Plants! Yes! That’s why they’re everywhere! Okay. That’s a plan!"

[finite vine]

Yea^ Neocortical tissue collapse

[burnt wren]

How comes i never found this log

[dense kelp]

I guess those baby HSUs are rather tanky for their fragile appearance

[burnt wren]

Not sure about fragile. They look like steel capsules.

Very reminiscent of Half-Life 2 citadel pods, only fully enclosed.

[dense kelp]

I guess maybe I'm remembering the revived HSU meaty chunky appearance back in one of the earlier rundowns

Does not look particularly durable

Anyway you think we'll be getting an extension or rundown 8

[burnt wren]

Hmmm

I think an R8

[solar nova]

Ext

[burnt wren]

R7 Extension seemed to have been justified to finish Schaeffer's questline and let him go all out in R7

[solar nova]

Not really much reason to be optimistic.

[burnt wren]

Now there's not really any lore plot points they need resolving / closing, they can do whatever

although i would definetely prefer an extension for sure

[dense kelp]

You know going back to the log with the Mimic is Schaeffer infected or is that just the mimic not knowing much

[burnt wren]

Mimic directly proclaims to Schaeffer "you have the virus"

And i'm pretty sure its doing so under warden's orders or at the very least recommendations

And schaeffer is 100% fucking infected

We got a log this rundown that confirms that NAM-V is utterly bonkers and is effectively enascapable

And the complex is full of it, everywhere

he was doomed the moment he took his first breath

The real question is how the fuck is he still alive for so long

[dense kelp]

Could be he adapted to the strain (pretty lucky) or jumping into HSU's makes the virus croak

[burnt wren]

well the latter is why our squad is still alive

HSU slows down progression of the virus to a crawl, or even resets it somehow

but schaeffer was out for weeks

He's to be developing sympthoms already

And i 100% guarantee he's not taking HSU quick nappies, no fucking way

If he got some kind of immunity - that would be galaxial levels of luck and plot contrivance

[dense kelp]

I wouldn't say plot convenience

do we know who Schaeffer is?

[burnt wren]

we do

He's a ex pitboss

He was in charge / captain of drilling operations

A fairly average tier fish, nothing special

[dense kelp]

We have logs before of him?

[burnt wren]

Yep

For him, of all people, to gain immunity is super fucking lucky

[dense kelp]

Was thinking he could be one of the units the warden had that went rogue

if that's the case true, rather lucky there

I guess we'll know if Henrikson bites it

[burnt wren]

Drill the hole
hole blows up
mutants start attacking everything
accidentally locked himself in a room without food or water
only option for survival: hide in HSU
he perfectly knew what it does to you
went in anyway
supposedly became another KSO for Warden who just took his opportunity
Had his squad eaten
Escaped to lower levels ignoring Warden's orders
Managed to rip out his chip
Is now completely "free"

[green burrow]

The loading animation when starting up the game states prisoner infection level as critical, so I guess the clock is ticking for all characters right now.

[dense kelp]

would be funny if some missions gave you a time limit for the infection but I think it's just flavor

[eternal talon]

those HSUs are where you would expect HSUs to be. this one is isolated and has ominous red lighting and 666.

[eternal talon]

afik no log anywhere says his spine and brain started to liquify. i'm gonna need a sauce on that one

[eternal talon]

it's been about a year or so since he broke free in r4.

[eternal talon]

the only thing i see in the log artek posted was relating to brain matter, not the spine.

[eternal talon]

with the rest of the other HSUs. we know the warden makes squads of 4, that's how it's always been, even under Kovac with it's different "versions" (like genesis, and others) this pod is completely isolated aside from the rest in the warehouse and has its own unique wall mounting. the rest here are stored on racks.

pictures above.

[eternal talon]

that is also a possibility, though i don't think it would be good narrative storytelling.

whatever the case, this HSU and its mounting system is unique, and it is isolated on the bottom floor of the vault. if it wasn't special, why waste the precious space down here? you could easily fit 5-7 of them along the wall to the left.

[dense kelp]

Could be someone important

but we don't know enough about the company

kinda like how weyland in Aliens made himself overly important to company design

[eternal talon]

we were not, you are correct. we were sent in to scan a closed one in a similar position on the opposite wall. they were the only two HSUs on that entire level. (of the vault, not the expedition)

[dense kelp]

but if anything I would figure a big exec wouldn't be down there

[eternal talon]

there are 3, technically 4 companies involved down here.

SMC, Kovac, Insight/Dreyfus, and Nyxos

[eternal talon]

an executive shouldn't be anywhere near an HSU, no. given the side-effects and repercussions of that.

[eternal talon]

SMC= diggy diggy & built the site
Kovac= Private military company, created Legion program and runs KDS deep and the BIOCOM/Hearsay network
insight= works with the ancient allen artifacts and worked on the Rise project
nyxos= ...i don't actually know off the top of my head, but i know their logo is on a lot of advanced tech in some levels.

but they made stuff like the neonate cradles

[dense kelp]

You know, the tentacle looking enemy still isn't in the game yet

I do hope it makes it in, the trailer seems rather interesting as far as environments and design are involved

[eternal talon]

Which one

[dense kelp]

looked kinda like the moon tunnels from CoD

[eternal talon]

The one in e3 trailer?

Or whatever

[dense kelp]

Yes that one

[eternal talon]

By now that thing has been scrapped probably 40 times over.

[dense kelp]

Alpha 1-3 are really cool but imo they're a bit basic as far as locations are concerned

Yeah I bet

[eternal talon]

It's name has even been replaced for the new enemy in r7.

[dense kelp]

Doesn't seem easy to implement lorewise/gameplaywise

[eternal talon]

It is more than safe to say it is never going to be in the game.

[dense kelp]

Well sure, but rather than having L4D enemies just having some monster that hunts isolated players seems cool

[eternal talon]

How basic can you get for locations on a planet in a completely different Plaine of reality?

[dense kelp]

Well I mean, the levels are cool thematically yeah

but as far as "abandoned base on red desert goes" I was kinda hoping for something a bit cooler

[eternal talon]

Well we got to see the underground bit of alpha three

In r6dx

With the staircase of death

[dense kelp]

Maybe im simping too much for the circular hallways

The overgrown areas in rundown 7 are really nice though

[eternal talon]

Ehhh,

They are nice when they are not crashing people.

Very poorly optimized imo

[dense kelp]

I guess I never considered that yeah

[eternal talon]

Schaeffer was a lv3 clearance pit boss working under SMC.

He only became a KSO very very later on in garganta after basically everybody was already dead.

[dense kelp]

I didn't recall reading that though, had the thought that maybe he was one of the rise units

[eternal talon]

He made his way to KDS deep and was being chased by sleepers so he locked himself in, but couldn't get the doors back open

He entered an HSU to avoid starvation

We got 3 audio logs specifically about his backstory and how he became a KSO in r6.5

He wasn't ever recruited or anything, his situation is much like dauda's

[dense kelp]

Alright I see, thanks then

Do we know anything about the modern time in which the game takes place

[eternal talon]

The year 2064.

[dense kelp]

I assume most of the logs we read are a large number of years back

[eternal talon]

The surface is basically almost completely dead.

I reccomend reading the "for dummies" doc in the pins

[dense kelp]

Will do

[eternal talon]

We and probably some isolated stragglers and doomsday preppers on the surface are the last bastion of humanity.

[dense kelp]

I see, so far no knowledge on what creates the sleepers though?

[eternal talon]

We know exactly what creates sleepers.

And how they work.

Mostly now from an e1 log we got a ton more information as confirmation to our theories.

It's all in the doc.

[dense kelp]

Damn i really should read the doc

[eternal talon]

And questions that you have that it does not answer I would be happy to elaborate upon with what we know.

[vagrant fiber]

What is Warden's End game destroy what is in the impact site?

[real pewter]

there is no end game i think

it just send people down to sustain the warden

[vagrant fiber]

Our tasks have to amount to something the further we go

[real pewter]

well, Unit 23 is a start

Unit 22 was a test, it walk among the sleeper and didn't get attack by them

so the next step should be making another one but can do heavy thing

[vagrant fiber]

||Yeah until another KSO gave it blunt force trauma ||

[real pewter]

the warden didn't know that schaeffer was down there, i think

and it was a new born too

it woke up 7.5 hours in and got killed by schaeffer

[vagrant fiber]

Warden got pissed given how it updated the objective to well find out what happened to it

[real pewter]

we're slowly go to the path where the warden will try to make something new to replace the KSO

the KSO also waste ammo, medical, tool

so, making something completely bypass those would be more efficient

[dense kelp]

didn't the warden get nuked and needed a restart

I remember in the more recent logs Henricksson was supposed to be pulling the strings

[real pewter]

they put a trojan in

not fully control the warden

[lilac island]

Tell me the lore

[harsh saffron]

I recommend checking out the pins in this channel for some summaries

[lilac island]

4 dummies do warcrimes and become an indie suicide squad

[burnt wren]

War crimes do not apply to mutants

[lilac island]

a warcrime is a warcrime there will be no excuses

[eternal talon]

We aren't mutants?

[eternal talon]

They put a Trojan into a biocom server room in r7d2. This doesn't necessarily mean that they have won. They've simply tapped into biocom, which is still under control by the WRDN protocol

They're both just now fighting over the strings of the same puppet.

[south lake]

Wonder just how fucked things would get if those figurative strings were to get tangled..

[eternal talon]

wouldn't surprise me if that happened.

schaeffer isn't exactly.. a tech expert.

and he is in charge of henriksson

(also reminder that henriksson has no memories)

[lilac island]

now's his chance to be A BIG SHOT

[dense kelp]

Would be funny if in some missions the objectives were to get more schizo

but Schaeffer seems relatively stable, as does Henriksson

Maybe the warden starts giving some stay in the closet orders

[eternal talon]

or goes full "flip the table" and starts sending squads that schaeffer could potentially access into suicide missions, including us.

think about how much the wrdn has to lose.

[dense kelp]

Well, it's not a free AI right

[eternal talon]

it could be.

[dense kelp]

Yeah that's true

[eternal talon]

it's a DI, it's designed to think for itself and come up with the best possible outcome given its pre-set programming "goals"

like some of those python code AIs people make to speedrun games.

[dense kelp]

tfw we know less about the Warden's goals than we do Schaeffer's

[eternal talon]

we know nothing about what it's endgame is.

schaeffer, well he is human, so we can theorize with a bit of certainty that "don't die" is one of them.

and the "fuck the warden" is another.

[dense kelp]

Maybe it's making the super babies to go deeper into the compound

[eternal talon]

so far it's only managed to make 23 of them

[dense kelp]

We've only seen the two right? wonder what happened to the rest

[eternal talon]

and while we have only encountered three of them, two of them we made ourselves.

[eternal talon]

r2/r3 unnamed unit, r6's U22 and r7's U23

it's been about a year since r3. (in-game time, not irl)

[dense kelp]

You know I thought that the r2/r3 unit was just being used as an organic computer at first

but I guess if Warden's in the superbaby business maybe that's what the parallel excursions we don't see could be

[eternal talon]

@harsh saffron and others have good pictures, we process it in a similar way to U23, though not the same.

[eternal talon]

there are a total of 32,000 HSUs in the complex, so he certainly has the manpower, if even half of them still have living KSOs in them, thats still 16,000 KSOs

primary storage site for them was KDS-DEEP, and we got WRDN access in r5.

[dense kelp]

I guess so, it's kind of hard to tell sometimes given how it feels like the player characters do all the work in games like these

[eternal talon]

we do a couple joint missions. most recently, r6c3 where we act as a decoy for a separate KSO team.

[dense kelp]

Yeah I remember that one, I wonder if we'll ever see them

[eternal talon]

other living KSOs? that depends on 10cc wanting to program it.

it's certainly a different ball-game as compared to fighting sleepers.

[dense kelp]

Well I meant more like as a background detail we could see some guys passing

like a scripted thing, or some communications

[eternal talon]

scripted events like that or radio chatter would be easily possible.

in the rundown screen, all the "last transmissions" in the level descriptions are canon

from other teams that are now dead.

what makes us special is our plot armor, canonically, we come back from every mission alive, will all bonus objectives completed.

it was a talked about comparison in here a lot before, "chad theory" vs "chimp theory", though we have gotten confirmation that we aren't clones, and Kovac didn't use them.

so Chad theory is cannon.

[dense kelp]

I never considered that, pretty interesting though

[dense kelp]

I wonder how that factors into the dreams the characters talk about sometimes from previous missions

maybe they got the plot armor and lived so warden paired them together?

[eternal talon]

memories being left over from previous rundowns.

some of the audio logs, bishops' especially when becoming a KSO, after a month's stay, REFUSED to forget about davies with how much he wanted to kill him

granted he eventually forgot even that, too.

and woods still worships god.

[dense kelp]

Yeah but I meant more so the ones that clearly talk of squadmates dying

[eternal talon]

"some fires burn too deep to smother"

[eternal talon]

that and checkpoint dialogue are most likely not canon.

[dense kelp]

GTFO lore do be crazy though, hoping we'll see more than just sleeper mutations

Yeah that could be that too

[dense kelp]

like with the logs that talk about the new species that got found deeper into the compound or other dimensions

The kraken and fliers were cool

[eternal talon]

https://www.notion.so/ab68b94496bd4b27bec291de65ebd510?v=9c98784771d740f3b605ff63763b4963&p=255b2fca66ab443790dc2d010a41ac28&pm=s we are the ultimate team for Kovac, their end-goal with the project. "the perfect quad"

though we don't know if it was Kovac, or Warden who finally matched us up together.

even the audio log in schaeffers' hideout mentions us by name talking about our individual mastery in certain fields.

[dense kelp]

Wish we had some enemy lore ala risk of rain

[eternal talon]

best we have is just general information that they are mutations of infected life with changes made based on genetic material of the host.

[dense kelp]

Yeah but some things like patient 0, some lore anecdotes, first sightings, would be really cool imo

[eternal talon]

so enjoy sleeping knowing that the Kraken was a living thing on destination, even before being infected.

[dense kelp]

Maybe not all of those at once

[dense kelp]

With some pretty gnarly teeth too

[eternal talon]

to be fair, the teeth on strikers are pretty gnarly compared to normal human teeth

[eternal talon]

that would really fall into the lore of the ancient aliens, and we don't have much of that.

in regards to human's first encounter, the edgar/teal log would be the best we have for the "first sighting"

that (could) be an infected allen.

https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?p=be964f47904647b191d3ad6149a9228b&pm=s

we've never encountered a creature like the one described in this log.

it has the physical aspects of something like a giant striker (but not really? like two different bodies put together, strong muscular legs, a neck that looks broken, and skinny, bent arms) but with the psi/teleportation capabilities of a floater

[dense kelp]

guess the allens mastered teleportation before being infected

[eternal talon]

well i mean the MWP was proof of that enough,

[dense kelp]

it kinda sounds like the sleeper if they didn't skip leg day also

[eternal talon]

being able to break the laws of the universe is.. something not even close to humanity in terms of advancement

they were insanely advanced

[dense kelp]

Hope we see more alien stuff next rundown

I remember Nier really baiting you with the ufo and it was just dead aliens

[eternal talon]

i think that's kind of the point, even if only partially, something strong enough to make them go extinct, (nam-v), and we petty humans are trying to fight it.

[dense kelp]

Yeah but the nam-v and the parasite seem to preserve life a bit, so hopefully we get to see some aliens

[eternal talon]

infected? probably.

[dense kelp]

Could have been the meteor was something of a spaceship to leave the place before it was doomed but someone was already infected aboard

[eternal talon]

i don't know if any uninfected allens would be able to survive this long down there with the infected, given it's been buried for 65 million years.

[dense kelp]

It's all pretty interesting, have we been to the deep tunnels that got sealed off yet?

[eternal talon]

that is, exactly, the primary running theory.

given descriptions of the inner being passages/corridors and not natural,

and whatever tech caused the explosion down there

i posted this pic a while ago, but something like the ship in John Carpenter's the thing is what i would think the Inner would look like.

[eternal talon]

garganta goes down to 2k meters before you reach the meteor and the inner.

we haven't been below 1.6k afik

if we go to the inner, it'd be the goal of an entire rundown

as we have hundreds of meters of mining tunnels to go through just to even get there.

from Santonian's Bore Drills

[dense kelp]

I think there's already some entrance there

[eternal talon]

a lot of the tunnels there were sealed off by biocom before the place went to shit

[dense kelp]

it was just sealed off, don't think some hundred meters need to be mined, but it probably would be the entire goal of a rundown

[eternal talon]

though it was obviously too late at that point

[dense kelp]

Oh yeah, I also guess it would be more difficult to take an elevator down there for extraction

[eternal talon]

yes, by that i meant we have to trek through all those mining tunnels, lift lockdowns, and just try to clear a path there.

not digging new tunnels

[dense kelp]

Might have to start mining just for the elevator

[eternal talon]

if we are lucky there might be a blast tunnel from the explosion that goes all the way down to near where the primary entrance to the inner is.

[eternal talon]

we didn't make the holes that the freight elevators use, they were retrofitted to use the holes made by the explosion in the inner as it was more efficient, before i guess they just had to lug them down floor by floor.

[dense kelp]

Well I guess we'll see, you think maybe the inner is what the e3 trailer was showing? or the concept might be reused

[eternal talon]

not really, we've seen tiles like that since all the way back in r2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vSYJckIfi8

stuff like the vault door we haven't seen before though

a lot of stuff in this video have since been removed

i mean c'mon, hackett is named north

[dense kelp]

Starting st :40 i think we haven't see that

[eternal talon]

though i really miss how dark the game used to be.

[dense kelp]

sorry phone :/

[eternal talon]

i swear i've seen a curve like that before, in the mining tile set.

[real pewter]

sorry to be a little distracted but

[eternal talon]

no your fine

what's up?

[real pewter]

did i hear stamina

[eternal talon]

no

[real pewter]

in e3 trailer

[dense kelp]

Also imo the UI was much better

[real pewter]

like, at the end

[dense kelp]

I get why it had to be changed

[eternal talon]

the end of that trailer is heavily scripted imo

entire tiles we've not seen

[dense kelp]

Yeah it's scripted but it's very cool

[eternal talon]

most notably that last hallway

[dense kelp]

With the worm creature yeah?

[eternal talon]

yeah

[dense kelp]

That do be a scripted moment, but I think it'd be cool as a way to punish leaving without a team

[eternal talon]

the jerry does that well now.

[dense kelp]

Yeah true, idk

I feel like jerry isn't as cool as the worm creature

[eternal talon]

it targets players in darkness and those away from other teammates.

[eternal talon]

i kinda agree.

[lilac island]

whos jerry

[dense kelp]

once again though I do get why for visual clarity and gameplay they had to change it

[dense kelp]

the left 4 dead guy that grabs you

[lilac island]

fuck jerry

[real pewter]

that thing will have the same mechanic as the cave leech in DRG

[lilac island]

he kidnapped me and dropped me off with 3 other jerrys

[eternal talon]

d1's not fun

it's bugged rn

[real pewter]

d1 is fun

[lilac island]

how so?

[eternal talon]

way more jerries spawn than intended.

[real pewter]

more jerry more fun

[dense kelp]

Can Jerry chain grab?

[eternal talon]

it's supposed to be 1-2

[real pewter]

[eternal talon]

not 3-5

[lilac island]

and here i was thinking that was intentional

[eternal talon]

yes

[dense kelp]

HA

[lilac island]

like we killed the jerrys and another one comes out of fucking nowhere

[eternal talon]

it was bugged before, but their "fix" bugged it worse

[real pewter]

it's desync issue with client, but

[eternal talon]

before you could skip all of overload and do it at the end

their patch broke the number of jerries

[real pewter]

if you have decent ping, should be fine

[lilac island]

like as soon as he released me ANOTHER one grabbed me and killed me

[real pewter]

ah, no

[lilac island]

so i guess so?

[dense kelp]

That's fucked, worse thing that can happened to you in vermintide is when you get chain grabbed by the infinite specials

[lilac island]

idk

[real pewter]

it broke before, they only patch the cheese

[dense kelp]

At least in vermintide it's a "high power" game so there's some outplay if you're skilled but in a game like this I don't see much you can do other than hope the ai director has mercy

[eternal talon]

of course, cus' thats fair

oh hey artek

how you doin'?

[lilac island]

i remember getting passed d1 cuz the game broke halfway through
like the strikers couldnt hurt us but it bugged the extraction point and we had to restart the last part
seems like its not the only broken thing of d1

[real pewter]

if you don't get hurt, that's either a really rare bug, or the host doing some shady thing

[lilac island]

probably a rare bug then

[real pewter]

i heard that story for at least 2 years now

[lilac island]

im not capping that literally happened to me

[real pewter]

i know d1 could give you that bug, it just that

that story had been told for so many time

[lilac island]

huh

[real pewter]

and i played in 1 of that lobby

we played in the older rundown, and one of the guy suddenly dying

but before he reach 0% hp, he become immune to damage

and then everyone become immune to damage

later, it's because that guy was cheating

[eternal talon]

this is getting off-topic, let's please keep to the lore in here

[lilac island]

dam

[real pewter]

ye, frostty is right

back to lore

[burnt wren]

War crimes are crimes first. In order to be a crime - the receiving side must be under protection of the relevant law.

Said protection, currently, only applies to countries who signed the Geneva convention.

Sleepers, being a wild force of "nature" can at best be protected under animal cruelty laws, and even then I'm fairly certain they do not apply to dangerous pests like them.

[lilac island]

gtfo lore, the group had cheat codes
(ok ill stop now)

[eternal talon]

what do you mean war crimes?

by who and against who?

i'm a tad bit confused.

[lilac island]

i said 4 dummies did warcrimes and became a suicide squad but i was kinda referring to what lead to them getting into the legion program
then this whole war crimes debate started

[eternal talon]

you mean US, committing war crimes against sleepers?

[lilac island]

not that

[eternal talon]

if i'm understanding correctly

then i'm lost.

then i'm lostty

[lilac island]

i watched a video on their logs that sorta explained things they did
like hackett killing over 20 people when he was in a village or some shit and he just felt no remorse over it

[eternal talon]

ah, i can send you the audio logs

he was on orders to contain a village

the villagers fled, and he gunned them down

he also accidentally killed his mother and brother

he voluntarily joined legion.

[lilac island]

yeah

[eternal talon]

what woods did is probably more your typical war crime

[lilac island]

yeah

[eternal talon]

as he went nuts and killed 20 people in his army base

[lilac island]

in the wise words of hackett
"so woods is a psycho"

[dense kelp]

I think the pharmacologist guy is your typical war criminal

[eternal talon]

dauda?

[dense kelp]

Yesh

[eternal talon]

not neccessarily

[dense kelp]

yeah*

[eternal talon]

he just didn't care

hold on

[lilac island]

wasnt dauda one of the people down in the complex and is basically part of the reason why the strikers exist?

[eternal talon]

** DAUDA, ABEO T-3701
A brilliant young mind. A groundbreaking researcher. A pillar of the scientific community.
Nigerian-born psychopharmacologist Abeo Dauda was all of those things before his obsessive ambition broke his moral compass.
Dauda’s blindness to the human cost of his experiments made him indispensable to unscrupulous drug companies.
As long as they stayed out of his way, he didn’t question them.
By the time he realized the depravity of the people he worked for, it was too late.**

from the devs' website

[eternal talon]

he was a researcher under team insight.

he did a lot of the research on Nam-v

[lilac island]

ah

so he didnt do any of the experiments himself?
just observed it?

[eternal talon]

he wrote this log

the most important log for the parasite and nam-v we have ever gotten

[dense kelp]

Know I think he willingly engaged in the research

[eternal talon]

he did experiments.

[dense kelp]

no*

[lilac island]

ah

[eternal talon]

think a doctor working for nazis and not realizing it.

that sorta thing

[lilac island]

when i listened to the logs i just felt so bad for bishop

poor guy was so scared

[eternal talon]

he wasn't ever a part of kovac

he got was cornered by sleepers in one of his labs

and entered an HSU as they were breaking down the door

i'll post the audio log 1 sec

[lilac island]

i think i heard that one

he had regret for the shit he did

and called himself a coward iirc

[dense kelp]

Out of control Alien bioweapons out here ending the world in media again poggers

[eternal talon]

https://www.notion.so/Timeline-0e93a62e8cfd44b3a36beb4ab245a2d0?p=e88e8057ffa544ecb9498f162736cc49&pm=s log MBCQ-11W-MDU.log

[dense kelp]

Closer to willingly working for the Nazi's until the told him exactly what his research was doing

It was like some of those rocket scientists

At least that seems like the appropriate parallel

[lilac island]

im pretty sure bishop did the least out of the other 3
i think he just installed spyware on laptops and tried to blackmail his boss
then they erased all traces of him

[eternal talon]

"i put progress ahead of ethics, i see that now. but i wanted us to learn, to understand, i did not know the price we- (glass shattering) Dreyfus industries, my dying shame, that i worked for the devil"

[eternal talon]

don't forget them sending him to an active warzone for two years hoping he'd die

[lilac island]

bishop at the very least can't be considered war criminal
whereas woods, definitely and probably hackett
and dauda i guess just depends on how you view it

[dense kelp]

I think for Dauda it would depend on if he was on the winning side or defected i the end

[lilac island]

so to recorrect my statement
3 dummies commit warcrimes and 1 dummy just fucked with the wrong people and they all became a suicide squad