imo they should just modify the system and change it in a way where you have to work for it. Like placing it in a optional room that has an alarm that the level doesn't balance it resources for, so it becomes like loot rooms where you can opt to get it if you can beat the challenge of the door or ignore it completely.
#gtfo-related-questions
rigid sinew
minor fractal
imo they should just modify the system and change it in a way where you have to ...
I think the system is genuinely fine, and I would even advocate for save points, if they changed the presentation on the Rundown screen to treat CPs like an objective (so, a clear stat, and then under it a special stat for one-shot clears).
desert falcon
Not really worried about checkpoints in the future. In my opinion, "every" feature got better after the first Rundown it was introduced in.
latent obsidian
I kind of forgot people were taking hours and hours on missions because they were restarting from checkpoints over and over. Wiping and calling it for the night or having a do over was just fine. Having run on sessions for the whole day trying to brute force from a checkpoint can't be the intention
rigid sinew
well one can hope 10cc do something good for it and don't pull another sniper ammo increase 
minor fractal
It would go so far to present CPs as a truly optional thing that you're choosing to use to experience the game with, and would also make it something that you would ideally grow out of if you're playing the game for a while and you get pretty good at it.
soft crater
It's unhelpful experienced players tell newer players that this rundown is pitifully easy compared to previous early access rundowns
rigid sinew
it's true though
latent obsidian
Elitism on this server is a problem as old as time
icy nacelle
Spastic saving and then immediately reloading at the slightest hint that you're about to get spotted.
The true stealth player
soft crater
It still influences their opinion and whether they'll stick to the game tho kat
dry pumice
I like checkpoints. I feel like a steam pipe having my pressure vented when I hit one. Gives me confidence boost, even if mistakes were made.
minor fractal
well one can hope 10cc do something good for it and don't pull another sniper am...
I need to find a substitute for the crying guy wearing a calm mask.
I mean, I think most people are waiting to see how good or bad R7 is before review bombing the game.
soft crater
minor fractal
That or someone that's well-respected needs to push for it.
rigid sinew
added more ammo to sniper...oh and it also has piercing now
minor fractal
Which could happen at any time, really, game outlook is extremely negative among veteran players.
rigid sinew
soft crater
>added more ammo to sniper...oh and it also has piercing now
Given it's hollow points. Not likely
dry pumice
I already gave mine a positive. I like the game as it is just for what it aims for aesthetically : highly immersive, deep coop survival horror. I don't really care what they do from here as long as the aesthetic stays.
The second they add a golden samurai armor - I'm rioting.
rigid sinew
Given it's hollow points. Not likely
I don't know if you missed the point there 
dry pumice
Or just samurai. Or just golden.
soft crater
I don't know if you missed the point there <:facepalm:722195563696750613>
Is joke ik but Hollow points arent made to penetrate
dry pumice
Aren't they banned by Geneva?
soft crater
Hollowpoints cause more internal dmg when hitting a target because the bullet shatters inside them causing more dmg
This also prevents the bullet from flying through the target to hit anything behind it
rigid sinew
then how did the spitter survive when I emptied my whole mag at it smh
dry pumice
Top kek
rigid sinew
shit is rigged
rigid sinew
:iknow:
soft crater
😏
dry pumice
Yep, it is against Geneva. Good thing it doesn't apply to mutants.
soft crater
Hollowpoints are just essentially more lethal
distant ice
you could make it clear to the team before you start
soft crater
I imagine it's a bitch to try to treat someone with all those bullet fragments shattered in there
dry pumice
Exactly. Apparently they're banned under "things that cause unnecessary suffering" point.
"just aim for the head goddammit" - The Geneva Convention, probably.
soft crater
honestly I just wish Gtfo added Hollow point rounds to more guns
soft crater
Some games I believe make it so hollow point round modification makes headshot/weakpoint shots hurt much more
And well helguns cant have Hollowpoints.
It wouldnt exactly be able to penetrate with those
Other point with it being on sniper. The bullet would most likely have enough force to shatter the bullet but the fragments go through the body
tight drum
For all we know anything that isn't a HEL is using them
Hollow points are actually the exact opposite of a hel gun
dry pumice
I think you guys misread what I said
dry pumice
I said that anything that doesn't penetrate in this game could be using HP and we wouldn't know... Because it doesn't penetrate.
tight drum
yup
dry pumice
<:SantonianWhatElse:813148031867158548> honestly I just wish Gtfo added Hollow p...
Actually how do you imagine this working? Giving every gun an extra crit damage buff or what? More gore? Mechanics or visuals?
tight drum
but btw they definitely aren't banned. They're actually much safer because they don't penetrate and couldn't accidently hurt innocents standing behind the target.
and they stop the threat much faster.
Basically the standard for concealed carry as far as I've seen.
dry pumice
That's what I thought. Theres a rational reason to use them, and the counter argument is "but it hurts more!"
I understand the point, but... Something feels off. That's a deep conversation for another channel.
dry pumice
That's what I thought. Theres a rational reason to use them, and the counter arg...
Don't get shot, I suppose?...
tight drum
Hmm maybe I'd say that dying faster is probably less painful. is it really against the Geneva convention? That's funny how little we listen to it down here in the states then.
But I guess no-one really does anyway. Definitely a different conversation.
But i think the reason they have hollow points in just the sniper is to explain the difference in damage. There could be something about the sleepers physiology that makes bullets hard to penetrate.
Therefore you need whatever the tech behind hel guns to really get through them.
tight drum
Hollowpoints cause more internal dmg when hitting a target because the bullet sh...
Btw the bullet doesn't really shatter it expands.
it's typically still one bullet just the Tip expands and slows it down.
mint gorge
so how do you add bots in lobbies, im trying to get a feel for the game to get my friends into it.
icy cave
so how do you add bots in lobbies, im trying to get a feel for the game to get ...
they are there by default when you start a lobby, otherwise you change the slot to bots only or players and bots
mint gorge
they are there by default when you start a lobby, otherwise you change the slot ...
for some reason my lobby says players only and wont allow me to change it.
icy cave
for some reason my lobby says players only and wont allow me to change it.
you can not click on the red box saying players only ? That is definitely strange
mint gorge
you can not click on the red box saying players only ? That is definitely strang...
yea, it makes the sound of me clicking on it, but no drop down menu pops up
icy cave
yea, it makes the sound of me clicking on it, but no drop down menu pops up
there is no drop down, the text changes
distant ice
you have to hold it not click it
icy cave
you have to hold it not click it
hmmm shows I never played with bots :p
mint gorge
i figured it out, apparently i was matchmaking and not hosting a lobby lol
distant ice
hmmm shows I never played with bots :p
they are there by default when you start a lobby
you had to turn it off once
fervent ibex
no i mean like uh
like for example
there is one dude a bit ahead of the main group with the bio tracker, spots and tags enemies
that is the scout
then there are 2 riflemen with turrets to increase firepower
and then there's the support with c-foam
to uh
foam doors and enemies
rigid sinew
inb4 he finds out the bio only pings active enemies
tight drum
@fervent ibex You could call it that I suppose. Different tool roles mostly work together. in D3 error section the person with mine deployer will usually stealth through the enemies while the the bio will ping the enemies and the people with turrets will refuel ammo and tool as well as shooting. Or maybe the C foam person will handle C foaming bullrush scouts... The bio pings them and the other two people hammer em. Or just Permafoaming doors and pinging enemies while a third person does uplink terminals could be considered that? it isn't the same as the roles you mentioned but there are definitely different roles.
neon gust
there is one dude a bit ahead of the main group with the bio tracker, spots and ...
biotracker always on the back
biotracker better on the back
if your entering a room yeah let him get close to the door so he can communicate with you, but during alarms its better if hes protected by the team so he can keep bio pings consistently
warm yew
if your entering a room yeah let him get close to the door so he can communicate...
Initial tag, he should push though
fervent ibex
if your entering a room yeah let him get close to the door so he can communicate...
bruh this is during normal moving around not biotracker 💀
no one should be ahead during that
neon gust
Initial tag, he should push though
nah, you got like 40m of range with the bio
unless your impatient
wich i would understand
cuz i often go and do the initial ping shit
neon gust
no one should be ahead during that
you can always have 1 guy defend if its really good while the other 3 do scans, it really varies from map to map
proven arrow
Are the new X missions hard ?
scenic torrent
Why is GTFO "Dead"? Or more accurately, why did GTFOs player base shrink so significantly? The developers put a lot of effort into the mechanics, function, and captivity of the game. It's very well made. It's super fun and engaging, and sure it might get boring after you complete all the levels, but it's still a fun experience. Which leaves me confused as to why the player base is down, and why it had taken such a significant hit in popularity.
rigid sinew
the game is the type of game where you play, finish, drop and wait till next rundown
scenic torrent
THen why aren't there spikes of activity when new rundowns release?
scenic torrent
I must have been using an less accurate chart then.
It didn't show any of the peaks during rundown releases.
spark wolf
they also make the game pretty unplayable for client this rundown
i've played all rundowns and this one is the only one that made me worse at the game with the bugs it had this time around
lost my habit to dash because it's broken and no longer used to to the intended enemy behaviour from often playing without being host
the game lose a lot of replay ability if it takes a quality drop like that
like we don't even have to talk about the new stuff added this rundown
those bugs alone simply ruin the experience
midnight gazelle
Rundown 6 was a disappointment in my opinion - Content wise, bug wise, etc
rigid sinew
I would argue content wise it was ok (although not the best)
Would have been waaay better if they had fixed the bugs with kekpoints and sniper 🅱️elee
Though I must confess I have barely noticed the last one since people started complaining about it
mossy aurora
sniper melee is not that noticeable if you dont utilize movement and terrain/obstacles well. if you're just standing still like a statue shooting and getting hit for free its not that obvious that it exists
compact pebble
Why is GTFO "Dead"? Or more accurately, why did GTFOs player base shrink so sign...
shit game
rigid sinew
sniper melee is not that noticeable if you dont utilize movement and terrain/obs...
Rather I kill them before they kill me
tight drum
Would have been waaay better if they had fixed the bugs with kekpoints and snipe...
You mean the checkpoint bug of checkpoints existing?😋
tight drum
shit game
Also it's not a shit game. It's really good. The developers clearly still have the ability to make great creative levels (look at levels like Cx d3 d4) crazy creative potential for levels, they just decided to not do that for a lot of levels remove a bunch of optional objectives from em and yeah there are some problems with Performance but they've talked about fixing those in R7 and I believe they will.
mossy aurora
dapper nimbus
Content wise R6 was far below expectations for me, hopefully R7 will spice it up a bit.
minor fractal
Though I must confess I have barely noticed the last one since people started co...
I went for like 2 months without really feeling it because I almost always host.
It's easy to credit it to typical lag if host's connection is bad or the internet is choppy that day, but it gets a lot more noticeable when it happens consistently over a long period where apparently every host has 200ms+ desync but things look swell on your end.
Which, if I'm not mistaken, is largely why it was noticed. Happening over a long period, to lots of different people, with lots of distinct indicators.
warm yew
Its due to the patch they did to fix jittery enemies that caused it
Which mean damage is dealt in real time, but the position of the enemies on clients' side was farther than they should be
muted hornet
What does it take to make 1 level for a rundown and how long?
inner field
it takes way too long :)
dry pumice
10 levels... Divide by 5 months...
~2 weeks per level, it seems
Plus minus dependong on complexity, as A1 clearly couldn't take as long to make as something complicated like D1 or D2
This doesn't account for them trying to innovate - come up with new enemies and mechanics like D1 Kraken
Oh, and teleportations
That was new too
distant ice
10 levels... Divide by 5 months...
You can't just do that
rigid sinew
lack of grouped spawns
raven moth
well making a level isnt just about putting some assets together. It takes time to come up with the layout, enemies (how many, types), is it going to be gun blazing like C3 type of lvl, is it going to be focused on stealth, is there gonna be secondary objective and if yes, what is it gonna be. Stuff like that and much more is gonna take some time, not even gonna start with QA
dry pumice
Due to the lack of other data - i did
latent obsidian
They aren't going to be able to make the new levels until they've designed and developed the features that will be a part of them
distant ice
Just making levels wouldn't take long at all
latent obsidian
Which I would imagine takes the larger part of development time each rundown
distant ice
Levels are blocked by features
dry pumice
Well, including that then
1 week to come up with features, 1 week to assemble them into a level
distant ice
Kek no
raven moth
it doesnt work like that
dry pumice
Of course not in perfect order. They probably just get all the features down in first 2-3 months, then assemble them for the other 2-3
I'm just spreading raw data, i don't really have to take anything else into account
I have release dates, that's all
distant ice
I don't know what they do i just know that they do this thing so I'll just take and assume that's how it works and give numbers
dry pumice
I'm basically talking of time here as raw resource that gets transformed into content
distant ice
It's useless to do it like that
dry pumice
Well the person asked, and i came up with the best i could
Took the time it took for rundown release and divided that time across how many levels it had
latent obsidian
Okay, and Storm is suggesting other factors and things to take into account to get a more accurate estimate
distant ice
Discarding literally everything else, And ignoring that there are 6 rundowns not just time between r5 and r6
dry pumice
So i found out how much raw time (spread across the timeline) went into making 1 levels. On average with no additional data it seems to be ~2 weeks. Maybe 1 week per simple level like A1, maybe 3 for something complex like D1
latent obsidian
The other thing to bear in mind that a lot of stuff is going on at the same time
If there are enough developers and designers then its a waste of time having 20 people all designing one level
And then the testing of that level and bug fixes can be done separately too
dry pumice
True. Doesn't change the overall outcome though.
latent obsidian
If the outcome is "how long til the next rundown comes out" sure. But the question was how long it takes to make a single level
raven moth
making a D1 could even take several months tbh. There is multiple departments that work on rundowns. Mappers, assets guys, testers, sound guys and more i believe. So maybe you have the basic layout ready in 3 weeks but then you wait another weeks for assets guys to make new stuff and change if instead of the placeholders, then you have testers to test it out, report it and get it fixed and retest it once more.
dry pumice
I got release dates, i got amount of levels. Simple as. The rest is details. Don't read too much into it.
latent obsidian
Yeah I understand the division you did
I'm just thinking out loud about how they are likely working in reality
dry pumice
Exactly. I'm simply sure though the person who asked the initial question wasn't interested in that - he just wanted some time estimate, so i gave one.
I could go deeper. I could do this division between every rundown and get the averages from there. Would be more accurate even. I'm lazy though, so if someone wants to do that - go right ahead.
muted hornet
Exactly. I'm simply sure though the person who asked the initial question wasn't...
Well i am interested into what goes into a level. Sound, models, enemies, layouts and all the extra stuff such as lore bits for terminals. In my opinion, i think it would take a week (mb 2) to develop the idea of the map, then it would take around 2-4 weeks developing the map, implementing the sounds, models/assets, new monsters (if there are any) and fitting it with lore and into the story (eg. the schnaeffer voice lines), then an additional week of bug fixing and adjustments, then its finished. So thats approximately 7 weeks max. This might be wrong, cuz i don't know how fast map development is, but i do think this is a fair estimation for what I've seen in game development.
dry pumice
Ah. So you did wanted the DEEP explanation. Yeah, i'm not expert in that then, so unless one of devs comes down and shines some knowledge on us...
latent obsidian
From what I understand they have some tool which makes it easier for them to piece parts of the map together. And I guess also set enemy density, spawn notable enemies, set alarms and scan spots etc etc. I'm visualising a level editor but I don't know exactly how user friendly it is to put something together quickly
dry pumice
I believe i do remember hearing that they use some kind of procedural generation
That should helps with assembly of your average dark_corridor_64
muted hornet
i agree. they might use some sort of level editor (or mb they use assets that can fit together like lego blocks in a way and just stick it together in the unity game engine), but i doubt its user friendly
latent obsidian
If you've been playing long enough you'll see the same "tiles" or rooms used over and over, so they certainly have a means of sticking them together and having them interface differently
Like your lego block analogy
mossy aurora
it would be cool to see the process behind how they made some of the levels, like D3. did they plan the splitting up part beforehand? or decide to do that after they put the tiles together. was the overload fog also something that they planned in conjunction with the stealth parts knowing that groups can burn a lot of time stealthing
latent obsidian
Agreed, would be interesting to see how they go from ideas and concepts through to the design phase
muted hornet
it would be cool to see the process behind how they made some of the levels, lik...
well probably, since they did have the overload bulkhead at the very start of the mission
mossy aurora
having the overload bulkhead at the start of the mission is not indicative that it was one of the first things to be planned
latent obsidian
It sounds a bit haphazard if its the way they fit the tiles that informs the core ideas for the level 😛
mossy aurora
if anything, it makes more sense that it's one of the last things they add, as in deciding what the overload modifier is requires the main objective to be planned out
dapper nimbus
Wasn't there supposed to be a QnA? But it got cancelled
latent obsidian
Yeah iirc. They did one with Simon but then the second one that week was cancelled
glad oasis
it would be cool to see the process behind how they made some of the levels, lik...
Splitting up was a core part of the level designer's idea from the get go. I'm not sure at what point exactly the fog rise idea came about.
jagged shadow
https://youtu.be/1CgQPpcIYtE
Hey! Anyone knows how to run this fast? Does it has to do with your pulse rate or charging your melee weapon to run faster than enemies?
rigid sinew
Wydm
They are just running normally
Although yeah, a higher pulse does slow you down
But in no instance it makes you faster
rigid sinew
Unknown
jagged shadow
Although yeah, a higher pulse does slow you down
Maybe it is this.
I felt abnormally slow probably cuz I didn't consider my HR
radiant prawn
I saw the merch just recently, I'm curious who the manufacturer is. Is it an Indie brand or made in a custom merch company
dapper vapor
Will GTFO get low spec support ?
radiant prawn
Will GTFO get low spec support ?
doubt
rigid sinew
lower than it has? no
dapper vapor
true
dry pumice
no, 4 gb laptop wont do
i believe there is even a room that has the specs?
Minimum:
OS: Windows 7 64-Bit or later
Processor: Intel Core i5 2500K or AMD equivalent
Memory: 8 GB RAM
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1030 or Radeon HD 7850
DirectX: Version 11
Network: Broadband Internet connection
Storage: 15 GB available space
Additional Notes: Low Settings
rigid sinew
what can you run with 4gb doe
terraria lol
it's pretty small amount for modern standard sadly
dapper vapor
rainworld terraria highfleet at high priority JSAB and more
dry pumice
so not graphics intense stuff
dapper vapor
it's pretty small amount for modern standard sadly
true :(
dry pumice
mostly 2d pixelated indie projects yadi yada
dapper vapor
true
dry pumice
Which is fine, yeah
Unfortunately GTFO considers itself to be the elite hardcore highly immersive game
dapper vapor
Unfortunately GTFO considers itself to be the elite hardcore highly immersive ga...
ik
dry pumice
My specs are a tiny itsy bitsy above what minimals say, i play on minimals and still have to cry myself to sleep when playing levels with da FOG
Particles are my worst enemy
dapper vapor
i get solid 9 to 15 fps when grafics at 640x480 and minimum grafics
dapper vapor
and in the pause menu i get 250 and 300 fps
dry pumice
that was my Win XP Pentium II PC from 2000s
dapper vapor
lol
dry pumice
the fucking thing couldn't run L4D
It actually just couldn't
i think i tried and its basically like 5 FPS
dapper vapor
wow
dapper vapor
i think i tried and its basically like 5 FPS
laptop gaming be like
but my mom has a laptop wuth 8 gb ram but its broken bc its around as old as me
just need to replace the battery and cpu and some other stuff idk about
dry pumice
The funny thing is - VR borught all this back
Well, the AAA projects at least...
Minimal settings at HL:Alyx:
- In a small simple room - the shit, future of gaming is here
- Near the Weapon Upgrade Station that Valve went out of their way to make a marvel of gaming technology - actually just straight headache in visual form
neon gust
lower than it has? no
worst thing of all levels that are too big will actually degrade performance
my gf was playing at a solid 50 with her old computer, but levels like r5b1 (specially digsite for some reason) get lower frames
r6 its optmize to when it comes to the complex
dimension be wack
rigid sinew
I wonder if those environmental particles have anything to do with that
soft crater
my gf was playing at a solid 50 with her old computer, but levels like r5b1 (spe...
Dragon has a gf 👀
Impossible
neon gust
Dragon has a gf 👀
Just dont
floral acorn
whadda ya mean, blackie is like the coolest hombre ever!
neon gust
dont be that guy please
waxen jetty
mad
crisp tundra
how hard is CX?
noble sierra
Among c-tiers, probably one of the slightly under average one.
midnight gazelle
CX isn’t hard. I guess the extreme could be a bit challenging going in blind
minor fractal
CX Secondary might be the most disappointing objective this rundown.
rigid sinew
you mean A1 high part 2
dry pumice
CX secondary is too sporatic. Push forward into some backroom with actual sleepers present while invisifuckers push from behind. Easy to get accidentally overwhelmed.
ruby wasp
just mine + cfoam lol
Or, you know
Have 2 people push forward while the other 2 stay a bit behind them to handle the waves
dry pumice
Hm, I don't know. Feels like there's too many of invisible.
They somehow managed to get our whole team spraying them.
I remember spraying them with machine gun into a doorway and 30 seconds later we are surrounded
floral acorn
bot bio and some sentries holding back "east" while 2 guys go west worked for us, the 10 minutes is not much time but the cell-fetchers can sneak a bit
the secondary works like d3, the spawn is fixed fromelevator, no middle-spawns even if the split teams up
but Saint-Funky has the meta-point, this game is practically built on "glue"
rain python
dont be that guy please
You’re not that guy pal
neon gust
You’re not that guy pal
You're not my pal friend
dry pumice
Did we ever had a boomstick?
Or is the primary sawed off we have now is considered one?
Actually never mind, I think I answered myself...
minor fractal
Hm, I don't know. Feels like there's too many of invisible.
HEL Gun can almost solo wave. Can definitely solo wave w/ enough backpedaling.
When I did it trio, two people from my static were just half-AFK at the entrance while I went and grabbed cell and came back.
Super boring.
rigid sinew
🧀 guns
minor fractal
It's OP into any enemy that doesn't strafe.
So, reactor waves, shadows, and chargers.
dry pumice
And just strikers in general
minor fractal
Iirc it's 15m, which is pretty big.
You either need to hold a close angle or a far angle to avoid it.
minor fractal
Shadows also can't sprint correct?
Not sure what this means.
distant ice
they're just slower that's all
minor fractal
They have a slower animation speed last I checked, and they use some shooter animations which have slower movement.
There's not really a sprint/walk in this game, only animation sets and animation speed.
distant ice
There's not really a sprint/walk in this game, only animation sets and animation...
technically there is
just nothing walks normally
minor fractal
Oh, patrolling?
worthy trail
u could consider giants out of your room/further away than 15(?) meters sprinting
or general stuff being propelled forward due to collision 
distant ice
giants outside your room move faster yes
minor fractal
or general stuff being propelled forward due to collision <:kappa:57491611938783...
I don't think that's a sprint, p sure that's mach 10.
distant ice
even if outside your room happens to be 1 m away from you
worthy trail
pretty sure i've seen a (the same room + further than x meters) condtion somewhere too
dry pumice
Am I just unlucky with sentry boosters? I swear I only have +SR Sentry damage
minor fractal
Burst sentry, tho.
dry pumice
Why on earth SR Sentry would need any more damage than it already does
rigid sinew
auto sentry
minor fractal
Why on earth SR Sentry would need any more damage than it already does
SR is Short Range
btw
distant ice
hover over it
tight drum
it's pretty clear
wise thicket
God damn
dry pumice
Hover over what?
dry pumice
You can hover over them?!
Godfuckin'....
I thought SR stands for Sniper Rifle
So I would literally only bring SR boosters with sniper sentry
tight drum
nope basically the worst booster for sniper rifle😂
it doesn't need more damage and it doesn't work well at short range
it's okay I thought that too for long time
we all have monkey brain sometimes
dry pumice
I don't think monkey brain has anything to do with this
Is there a LR booster? Maybe MR?
There's nothing else to consider. Who shorters Short Range to SR?!
C. Q. C.
I'm actually molding
tight drum
I mean you could just read the full description
it's as clear as can be.
I'm not judging you I never read any of them for a long time either
I'm just saying it is pretty monkey brain to not notice
tight drum
Sniper rifle isn't anymore likely then Short range.
dry pumice
I just click between them and that's it
There's no reasons to hover over them. Maybe I'm just unlucky to never hover over descriptions accidentally...
tight drum
Is there a LR booster? Maybe MR?
there isn't a burst or auto damage either.
tight drum
There's no reasons to hover over them. Maybe I'm just unlucky to never hover ove...
The reason is that it tells you more information?
wise thicket
What’s going on?
dry pumice
A little [?] Icon near description would come a long way
tight drum
Yeah I suppose.
I guess I do lean a lot more towards being obscure then being stupid obvious. People never seem to complain the other way round.
like the god damn mission objectives.
They've gotten so much more obvious :/
spark wolf
me when streamer types terminal command wrong by 1 char and then assumes that's just not what you're supposed to do at all
dire sparrow
Im the only one who learned the commands of all my friend group so now they message me while im at work for the fucking commands
rigid sinew
I literally just typed HELP and read
scenic torrent
What do these number mean?
Wait
No immages
The numbers you see after completing a level. For example, under A1, I see:
COMPLETED: [2,-,-,-]
long ember
It’s the number of times you completed that difficulty
So for A1 you completed the main objective 2 times
wise thicket
Main, Secondary, Overload, Prisoner efficiency
tight drum
Just tell them to type in COMMANDS
Yeah I totally agree the terminal literally tells people type help and that explains to type commands. What is this bullshit of "list key_blue_xxx query key_blue_xxx ping key_blue_xxx put key_blue_xxx into the door" That doesn't need to be spoon fed to the players like they never used a keyboard before.
My new player experience in R5 was so so much better in that regard.
it's gotta be understood that watering down the systems of this game are going to ruin all the specialness of it.
The mystery of figuring out the terminal is almost like a puzzle element. it needs to be made more complex not less. Why even have a whole command system if you just give players the solutions.
rigid sinew
it needs to be more complex, but not for the sake of being complex
weary mesa
With the direction that game is going. I'd see them start making everything baby mode
tight drum
it needs to be more complex, but not for the sake of being complex
agreed. Complex in an interesting way.
Which to be fair they have done.
Terminal commands are actually cool and useful
Uplinks are good but I want something a little more involved in terms of terminal use. The double uplinks where you search logs are great.
tight drum
With the direction that game is going. I'd see them start making everything baby...
well to be fair there was a lot of pushback so who knows what'll happen .
weary mesa
There'll be a day where every sec door in a level is a Checkpoint door
tight drum
Jeez...someone's a negative Nancy
tight drum
There'll be a day where every sec door in a level is a Checkpoint door
although I couldn't think of a faster way to lose the majority of your player base then doing that.
weary mesa
I do like most of what they've been adding/reworking but checkpoints are my one complaint with the new stuff
Other than sniper melee
surreal topaz
ok i dont want to start a big discussion but from what ive seen (i just want someone to say yes or no and explain where im wrong ig) in terms of scout killing with melee: knife only kills from behind and back (occupit), bat only kills from back, then sledge is same as it always has been then spear is just long
cuz i started using knife on r6 and ive been loving it but scout killing with it seems unoptimal, so i tried bat and have had 2 instances to show that it cant kill from front so im presented with just goign back to sledge
tight drum
Bat and knife only to back of the head yes.
pretty sure sure just back of the head not back in general.
surreal topaz
yea im only referencing the head i dont think theres a melee that can kill not with head
tight drum
No that isn't true hammer can anywhere
back front head not head.
oh wait nvm
You mean scout.
Yeah
surreal topaz
lol yes
tight drum
sorry
surreal topaz
i was gonna correct you but i figured youd notice
tight drum
yuuup lol
tight drum
but with some practice back of the head isn't too bad with bat and knife.
But to each his own.
surreal topaz
oh im aware, but when they swap pathing so much its a bit of a bother id rather not have to worry about it
or having to worry if you're gonna miss or not
dire sparrow
I literally just typed `HELP` and read
thats how i learned it ;-;
compact pebble
bat and knife on scouts are trickier
surreal topaz
its mostly cuz im still not fully comfortable with scouts so i want it on easy mode lol
tight drum
its mostly cuz im still not fully comfortable with scouts so i want it on easy m...
Hammer time is the way to go then.
Bonk Bonk
surreal topaz
Hammer time is the way to go then.
👍
tight drum
Have you seen the other types of scouts yet?:)
surreal topaz
yes, ive played sense r4? i think but my friend grp was quite sporratic when we played
so unless theres something other then the charger scout i know of both
sudden burrow
:)
waxen jetty
:)
tight drum
:)
surreal topaz
ah i see
rn im trying to get my friends to do d1 so we can look at the other d lvls
tight drum
Charger scouts are awesome though.
The other D levels are amazing two.
Best in the rundown.
sudden burrow
They've been a thing since R4, but they're in D3
surreal topaz
maybe ive seen them just forgetting ??
i just havent done either e lvl
in 4 or 5
tight drum
don't spoil it for yourself.
sudden burrow
They first showed up in.... R4C2 overload?
tight drum
Just play em
sudden burrow
That sounds right, but my R4 memory is foggy
tight drum
when did they first show up in R5?
totally don't remember.
D1?
or was it earlier?
tight drum
Jeez really? I thought I knew that level really well lol.
surreal topaz
oh sorry you mean ||shadow scouts||?
i knew i was forgetting one
those guys are fun
sudden burrow
Yup
tight drum
They're P cool.
sudden burrow
Jeez really? I thought I knew that level really well lol.
If it makes you feel any better, I had to go through the mission list just to remind myself what each mission was, lmao
surreal topaz
i do remember seeing them in c2 i think
sudden burrow
I do remember them in C2 though because my fool of a brother tried to get a double on them with the hel rifle - he missed the head on the first, and the second was behind a window lmao
surreal topaz
lol thats unfort
sudden burrow
I also have a BRILLIANT clip saved of c-foam grenades working exactly as intended, nothing weird, no sir
tight drum
I was stuck for a long time on the C levels that rundown so I'm surprised I didn't remember.
Really crazy step up.
But crazy good
surreal topaz
one of my friends and i FAV maps was d3? i think in r4, the reactor lvl
sudden burrow
C2 specifically was our wall for a while, yeah
surreal topaz
with the 5 scout room
surreal topaz
yes d1 ty
i remember the first time we saw the room we were like UHHHH we gotta go IN there>?
tight drum
Haha That's great that you still have the same team from R4.
surreal topaz
i was on reactor term duty so im 5 rooms away just waiting to see if they mess up or not lol
yea but its been hard to get them on recently :(
sudden burrow
My team has shuffled here and there, but I've been running with each one of them since R1, 3, and 5 respectively
My fellow R1 vet is our legendary DMR-sniper main
tight drum
Definitely the best way to play.
I have a couple teams I run with.
One's from earlier rundowns and one's from R6
sudden burrow
Helping a newer group can be magical, it helps to bring back the sense of "what the fuck is going on" pfft
surreal topaz
ive been watching some speedrunning stuff, is dmr good or nah
ive been the dedicated sniper sense i downloaded the game
gun games are not my forte but i can snipe stuff
sudden burrow
DMR feels good, just need to be mindful of the inability to one-tap strikers without boosters or occiput
I wouldn't really call any gun bad, except maybe machine pistol and sawed-off? But they can still be pretty alright, depending
surreal topaz
gotcha
tight drum
I wouldn't really call any gun *bad*, except maybe machine pistol and sawed-off?...
Go sawed off!
sudden burrow
I've used it! In CX! With varying degrees of success!
surreal topaz
how much booster do you need for dmr
it seemed to be one shotting but 🙃 idk
ive beat every level (with friends or bots) except obv d1 and dx
tight drum
it one shots shooters.
surreal topaz
i know shooter multipliers are weird
sudden burrow
You only need like, 6% to front headshot strikers
tight drum
strikers are left with a decimal point of health
sudden burrow
It's only barely not enough base damage
surreal topaz
well good to know its not much needed
sudden burrow
...Oh right, 6% was a weird melee damage threshold in R5, lmao
tight drum
so anything in the game can will make them die after a dmr headshot
so dmr shotgun is awesome.
surreal topaz
yea ive been trying to find a primary i like just had ar mostly
tight drum
Haha yeah there are certain weapons you just need to be able to aim for
actually hold on a sec. You gotta aim with sniper most of all!
surreal topaz
yea dont ask i can hit my sniper shots but not my primarys LOL
if i can sit there and line up im good to go
ive always been good with snipers even tho i have limited fps exp
surreal topaz
in games that have projectile drop i would go crazy with it
tight drum
This new scope zooms in way too much for me
i can aim quite well with things like revolver or dmr though
surreal topaz
i would sit in a corner of a map and snipe ppl
tight drum
helpful. The sniper can often be the most important player.
surreal topaz
there has def been some clutch snipes happen in the past
i actually kinda stole the role from one of the others but thats ok
tight drum
Hahaha in rundown five that was less of a problem because of hel rifle.
Although stuff like hell gun and choke mod still fill similar roles
surreal topaz
i never tried the hel rifle we couldnt tell if it was just better sniper or alt sniper
tight drum
i doesn't one hit giants to the head.
surreal topaz
ah yea
tight drum
it's all about piercing.
surreal topaz
we snuck with sniper cuz it can one shot everything* in the game
yes i know the couple enemies it cant but we decided we wanted 1 shot for everything
tight drum
spraying into a group of four giants can deal with them all in lightning speed
Yeah people have all different playstyles.
Which is great!
Variety is best.
surreal topaz
yea when we were newer we were def not comfortable with meleeing everything
surreal topaz
thanks, i might lfg in here soon if i cant get the squad on
i enjoy the game and wanna beat the lvls
i wish there were more PE lvls this rundown
those were fun
tight drum
thanks, i might lfg in here soon if i cant get the squad on
For sure. There are a lot of nice people. I'd be happy to play any of levels with ya if you need another. Always good to find like minded players.
Me too :(
Hopefully for R7
D3 Pe is really good though
So crazy.
surreal topaz
some of the best fun i had in this game was r5? i think? but it was a PE lvl that we had to spend days on and 2 hour runs trying to not fail at the very end
tight drum
Yup I had that experience with C2PE so hard but soo fun.
There was no goofing off tolerated.
surreal topaz
think it was a B lvl
it had an error alarm while you had to do the overload obj
so we had one guy run back who was most comfotable with kiting just soloign waves while we were coordinated sniping scouts ect
good times
tight drum
I think B1 or B2? I don't remember.
tight drum
so we had one guy run back who was most comfotable with kiting just soloign wave...
No more doing that haha.
Bye bye kiting
compact pebble
b2 had error
you had to go thru infectious fog zone with sleepers and scouts to find 5 glp samples
b1 had no error so chu was prob talking about b2
weary mesa
R5B1 Big charger error
compact pebble
i don't think he was kiting big chargers, there are also no scouts thru that zone...
weary mesa
"b1 had no error"
compact pebble
🥴
weary mesa
shit was hilarious pre nerf
tardy ingot
i don't think he was kiting big chargers, there are also no scouts thru that zon...
there were. At release 
dry pumice
Yeah I totally agree the terminal literally tells people type help and that exp...
Ah, the command is HELP not COMMANDS? Alright... Or is it both? How do i keep checking? I already forgot.
To be fair: GTFO is one of few FPS games i've seen that unironically asks players to "Learn to code", because that's what terminal interactions basically are.
I don't have the data, so this is a gut feeling - but somethings tells me that a large quantity of gamers are probably unfamiliar with basic coding, especially the younger portions. I'd imagine terminal experience could be much worse for me if not for my IT background and my pathetic attempts at modding.
tardy ingot
bbc error and going into a bbc zone with a scout was insane for a b level
Dude. I sucked at anything IT related and still easily found out how to use the freaking 5 commands that exist
its not very complex
tight drum
Ah, the command is HELP not COMMANDS? Alright... Or is it both? How do i keep ch...
Help is just a command that explains the very simple basics of terminals and tells you to type commands to see a list.
dry pumice
Ah right, kek
tight drum
All terminals say type help for more information at the top.
dry pumice
Now i remember, yes....
sudden burrow
It’s not quite coding, it’s more like command prompt
surreal topaz
It’s not quite coding, it’s more like command prompt
this is fact
dry pumice
True
sudden burrow
Basic text-based interface/system, instead of graphics-based
dry pumice
A little bit easier
surreal topaz
not only did i steal the sniper role but he was also the terminal guy and i started doing that too lmao
thats actually one of the reasons i wanted to get the game was the terminals
sudden burrow
Most of my crew vibes real good with ‘em
surreal topaz
i wanted to learn some cryptic ass system and do cool shit
tight drum
i agree that it could be hard for some people but it's honestly still a good thing. figuring out basic command line stuff is a thing people need to be able to figure out.
surreal topaz
but yea its kinda simple rn :(
sudden burrow
Being able to use terminals well is definitely a huge boon, and yeeeaaah please do more with them 10c :D
tight drum
Plus the whole game is about cryptic mysteries... Those are the best kind. And the terminal is a much better way of breaking up combat in an actually useful and logical way then just having dumb match the strawberry games.
dry pumice
There's a room with a fog and you can use a fog-suck terminal commands, but it will strain the system and result in a drawback like turning off the lights
SO you can pick, for every individual room, wether or not you want to deal with the fog or pure darkness
surreal topaz
it would be a little hard perhaps to do more with them just because you only need to find things and if not, then its reactor/uplink/unique command, they dont play an integral enough part i feel to be too much more in depth
tight drum
Plus the whole game is about cryptic mysteries... Those are the best kind. And t...
@ alien isolation with all those dumb mini games.
oh thats a person oops
dry pumice
RIP
surreal topaz
SO you can pick, for every individual room, wether or not you want to deal with ...
interesting idea, having terms have more generic power over rooms/zones
imagine being able to open and close doors from them 😳
tight drum
SO you can pick, for every individual room, wether or not you want to deal with ...
i'm all for more terminal stuff.
sudden burrow
They could definitely still add more things that could have terminal integration of some sort, too
surreal topaz
yea they would have to
cuz currently what else they gonna do other then like artek said changign core room mechanics because of them
sudden burrow
….oooh, anyone remember the like…. HSU racks from the tank room in R4D2?
That might be a neat little thing
Small, but
tight drum
cuz currently what else they gonna do other then like artek said changign core r...
More terminal based objectives like uplinks and reactors. Maybe you need to get an HSU out of a huge storage space like kds Deep so you have to search a bunch of directories for the HSU you need and navigate it to your docking bay.
surreal topaz
ooo yes yes
tight drum
Could do so many cool things that's just an example.
surreal topaz
i must say ive been quite dissapointed in the number of reactors last 2 rundowns
those were my favorite levels by far
i would bug my friends to play them
esp cuz we arent at the lvl where everything is ez clap so we would have to work multiple nights and progress and learn and get out of our comfort zones
tight drum
R5 had 4 or 3? i'm not sure.
surreal topaz
uhhh idr its late
tight drum
This one has two.
surreal topaz
we were workign on a d lvl one i think
surreal topaz
This one has two.
a number much too small
tight drum
R5D2:)))
surreal topaz
think so, it was a PE lvl
tight drum
awesome reactor haha.
surreal topaz
yea it was a lotta fun
tight drum
Oh maybe not then.
tight drum
probably B1 or C2 then.
surreal topaz
cuz our mother pathing was so terrible
tight drum
Who knows.
tight drum
Ohhh yeah that was C2 extreme.
Mother at the end of the reactor really threw us off our game.
surreal topaz
yea tanks at the end is like aight thats doable going in blind but mother was wildin
latent obsidian
R5C2 was a pretty neat level
compact pebble
replace the mother with queen
tight drum
R5C2 was a pretty neat level
Really one of the besst.
surreal topaz
tank 2.0 tho
latent obsidian
they already got Mother2.0
tight drum
oh no dont make a mother 2.0
....
surreal topaz
is there another new enemy im forgor
compact pebble
he doesn't know
tight drum
Not new.
latent obsidian
She's not in R6, she's biding her time
tight drum
But yes.
surreal topaz
which rundown was it
latent obsidian
3, 4, 5 I think all had her
compact pebble
don't think 4
latent obsidian
R4E1
tight drum
P mom
surreal topaz
yea we never got down to e lvls
compact pebble
ah
tight drum
haha with a tank right?
tight drum
M o r e
surreal topaz
shadow tank when 🥴
surreal topaz
idk man with the amount ive heard some ppl complain how easy this game is in videos....they might try something very off the wall
prob not but we'll see
latent obsidian
A lot of the people that are currently playing are just veterans with a loot of hours
compact pebble
we can only hope it will be more difficult in R7
surreal topaz
A lot of the people that are currently playing are just veterans with a loot of ...
yea
compact pebble
there are checkpoints already, so they might make it harder than any rundowns we've seen
surreal topaz
my team is like alright but certain things still get us
and we havent lost the novelty of it yet cuz we play so infrequently
so seeing a room full of 5 scouts or something is still cool and scary
tight drum
there are checkpoints already, so they might make it harder than any rundowns we...
Maybe they will but i doubt they will because of checkpoints.
desert falcon
I imagine its pretty hard to come up with anything that challenges ppl that have 3k hours and play daily ^^
surreal topaz
I imagine its pretty hard to come up with anything that challenges ppl that have...
exactly, youd have to do something just absurdly dumb for those players
compact pebble
I imagine its pretty hard to come up with anything that challenges ppl that have...
😔
i feel attacked
tight drum
Plus shadow tank is just awful. Not really an enjoyable experience.
compact pebble
xD
surreal topaz
make a difficulty above overload for extra objectives thats just everything thats "supposed to be hard" about the game but all in one
compact pebble
just make it so hard its impossible smh
surreal topaz
max class error surge alarms with shadow everything and tanks and mothers everywhere
yea just a "you lose" dif
compact pebble
just make it so hard its impossible smh
alarm that spawns full waves of mothers
surreal topaz
cursed
tight drum
I imagine its pretty hard to come up with anything that challenges ppl that have...
I think there are plenty of people including me who aren't in that category but still have problems with the difficulty.
surreal topaz
i mean wasnt there a tank error alarm already
surreal topaz
I think there are plenty of people including me who aren't in that category but ...
yea im fine with the dif rn, altho the C and above lvls in this felt a bit easy i guess?
tight drum
R5C1 R5C2 R5D1 R5D2 R5B3.
desert falcon
I think there are plenty of people including me who aren't in that category but ...
Oh yeah didn't mean it like that, just saying that ppl with 3k hours will probably beat any content within a "few" tries
surreal topaz
PE lvls also usually just are harder in general to do a PE and theres what like 2 in r6
surreal topaz
Oh yeah didn't mean it like that, just saying that ppl with 3k hours will probab...
or skip the "difficult" part, or things that "need" to be done, ex d1
tight drum
Oh yeah didn't mean it like that, just saying that ppl with 3k hours will probab...
Yeah i don't think they should make it just hard for the sake of it. They need to make the challenge actually interesting and strategic. Not just about having god reflex's.
Although obviously you need some skill
desert falcon
Just comes down to new mechanics that you have to learn and thats probably the most complicated stuff to come up with.
surreal topaz
rng = bad in this game, for difficulty
desert falcon
Like, it doesn't matter how many enemies you place in a room, if you are a stealth god you will go through that room anyway. But if there is something new you have to adapt to and need to learn from scratch, that could work.
tight drum
Oh I totally agree. it's tough. I wouldn't go to the COD devs and ask them to make this game. But these devs have proven that they can do it before. So I'm going to hold them to that standard.
surreal topaz
ooo what about respawn rooms when they were going crazy with those, i think they used to respawn scouts too at first right
they could re-implemnt those
more
tight drum
R5C1 is a great example of stealth respawn rooms yeah.
latent obsidian
Tough stealth along with some time pressure seems like a good combination to challenge experienced players if tuned right
tight drum
especially after really draining your resources.
latent obsidian
Either reactor timers, waves that drain ammo
tight drum
Tough stealth along with some time pressure seems like a good combination to cha...
Which actually to this rundowns credit D3 does pretty well.
desert falcon
Make secondary a 5 min time limit instead of 15 
tardy ingot
R5C1 is a great example of stealth respawn rooms yeah.
id argue its a bad one
Since you are forced to kill it at one point. If you werent it would be very very good
tight drum
Unfortunately those ideas are mostly confined to the last 3 levels.
tight drum
id argue its a bad one
Since you are forced to kill it at one point. If you wer...
well it's just an extra fight before the alarm.
weary mesa
R5C1 was terrible people just spawn blocked it
tight drum
well it's just an extra fight before the alarm.
basically a little alarm.
tardy ingot
well it's just an extra fight before the alarm.
it means that if you wake it before you have to either reclear again or spawn block
which is the problem
latent obsidian
How could you spawn block it when all 4 are needed for terminal scans?
tight drum
R5C1 was terrible people just spawn blocked it
how? you need to do a team scan for the terminals
Yeah
tardy ingot
you just dont do terminal before alarm lol
weary mesa
Cooldown on reset
desert falcon
How could you spawn block it when all 4 are needed for terminal scans?
those were added later
to counteract spawn blocking
tardy ingot
those were added later
nope
desert falcon
sure it was ^^
tardy ingot
unless you mean in r5ext
tight drum
those were added later
Well then I agree that was an exploit that I'm glad they patched.
desert falcon
when R5C1 came out, you didn't have to do any scans for uplinks but they added them in later
tardy ingot
you could still splawn block to get ressources. Which meant 1 guy was afk-> then you did the alarm. Then the terminal
latent obsidian
you just dont do terminal before alarm lol
Okay so you clear before the alarm, then do the alarm. What next? I don't understand how you are using spawn blocking here to any greater effect than otherwise?
If you are talking about the version where you don't need to team scan for terminals then fine
tight drum
Yeah @tardy ingot is your only problem that you have to fight the respawn room once? it's a challenge before the alarm. I don't see how it's so bad.
tardy ingot
respawn rooms that you HAVE to clear are always a worse idea
With the exception of it being a super long return point. It was done after s1 scans. Which meant any single player could just make the run boring for 1 guy unless you wanna deal with the room twice
tardy ingot
because youd have to clear it for the second s1 alarm
else the room gets pulled mid alarm
i loved the ending of r5c1
tight drum
because youd have to clear it for the second s1 alarm
isn't there only one alarm?
latent obsidian
So S1 at the very start and another S1 over the bridge to the second hub zone
tardy ingot
yep
tight drum
What's the other one?
tardy ingot
the first one. You start on a s1 scan
tight drum
Ohh
tardy ingot
which means you have low ressources unless you cfoam ladder cheese
tight drum
but that doesn't pull the room.
tight drum
which means you have low ressources unless you cfoam ladder cheese
THAT's the whole point.
tardy ingot
the first one doesnt. But second one does
tardy ingot
THAT's the whole point.
duh
latent obsidian
So you clear the room, get the cell while spawn blocking, do the 2nd S1 while it is still cleared and then deal with the back part of the level. Then sneak back for the first terminal and sneak out past the giants to extraction?
Am I getting this right?
tardy ingot
yeah. The problem was that when you woke the room you now had 2 choices
-
have a guy spawn block til you finished looting then do s1
-
loot as a team and redo clearing the room for the bridge s1
tardy ingot
So i'm confused why are you bringing up the first one?
You asked for it XD
tight drum
yeah. The problem was that when you woke the room you now had 2 choices
1. have...
Or just don't clear the first time?
tardy ingot
So you clear the room, get the cell while spawn blocking, do the 2nd S1 while it...
thats what happened when you triggered it prior to the 2nd s1 prep yes
tight drum
That's the whole idea of respawn rooms.
tardy ingot
Or just don't clear the first time?
the first time would be unintentional…
tight drum
Oh so you mean if you messed up?
latent obsidian
Why wouldn't you trigger it prior to the second S1 prep? Just to avoid having to have someone spawn block?
Seems easier to have that room empty
tardy ingot
respawn rooms should punish you for waking them as an active threat and then as the danger of waking them up again
Them being needed to clear for alarms can be very bad
latent obsidian
I say trigger but I really mean clear via stealth
tardy ingot
Why wouldn't you trigger it prior to the second S1 prep? Just to avoid having to...
Because spawn blocking is boring as shit
like, you either deal with it twice or you spawn block if you trigger it before you got the ressources and cell
tight drum
yeah. The problem was that when you woke the room you now had 2 choices
1. have...
but don't you have to do the uplinks first? before the bridge scan?
surreal topaz
respawn rooms should punish you for waking them as an active threat and then as ...
are you sayign make the rooms worse but dont make them necessary to reclear to do an alarm?
tardy ingot
but don't you have to do the uplinks first? before the bridge scan?
nope
latent obsidian
Okay, I see what you're saying
tardy ingot
are you sayign make the rooms worse but dont make them necessary to reclear to d...
Making them necesary to reclear is imo bad if they would get pulled into the alarm
R5d2 actually did it quite well imo
tight drum
like, you either deal with it twice or you spawn block if you trigger it before ...
Or you go in stealth the room. Get what you need clear it ONCE then do the second scan.
latent obsidian
Basically the most efficient way of dealing with it is boring for one player and hence its not good design
surreal topaz
or just make them worse so clearing it twice is ineffecient and could cost you a run?
tight drum
i don't understand twice?
tardy ingot
Or you go in stealth the room. Get what you need clear it ONCE then do the secon...
dude. Youd have 0 ressources
tardy ingot
if someone triggers it. Before you have the ressources -> then you either spawn block. Or you have to clear it twice
tight drum
if someone triggers it. Before you have the ressources -> then you either spawn ...
don't do that?
???
tardy ingot
don't do that?
are you trying to not get the point?
tight drum
No don't trigger it is what I'm saying.
tardy ingot
the punishment should be waking the room and then having the danger of waking it again
Not waking it and HAVING to clear it again
tight drum
the punishment should be waking the room and then having the danger of waking it...
Okay I see what you're saying. But that still relies on you making the mistake in the first place. And even if you do... fighting that zoom with no resources will likely lead to death.
tardy ingot
but thats the point
In an optimal run respawn rooms never were a problem
But the c1 one punished you nonsenisbly for it
the idea was great for the extract
tight drum
And yeah. if you mess up... You have to clear it again. I don't see what's so bad about that.
latent obsidian
So they could have solved it by adding an extra room for enemy spawns before the bridge then?
tardy ingot
So they could have solved it by adding an extra room for enemy spawns before the...
sadly no
It would break the ending part with the error and make it very easy
since you could then scream manipulate
latent obsidian
Oh, I'm not at that level xD
tardy ingot
Ive thought about this extensively before
its just that the design wasnt super great
meanwhile r6d3 respawn rooms = chefs kiss
tight drum
Did you always wake that room? I'm just trying to understand how this was a big issue because we never really encountered it.
tardy ingot
the big respawn zone is awesome. Big punish if you wake it. With actual pressure to go quick multiple times
tight drum
i'm not trying to be obtuse at all:/
tardy ingot
Did you always wake that room? I'm just trying to understand how this was a big ...
no?
The issue is that its a possibility
tight drum
I guess I just never experienced that. Even if we did wake it then we just deal with shooting an extra wave of bigs. it's like when you mess up a reactor wave. You have to do it over again.
tardy ingot
for a reactor wave the punishment is to shoot it again
for a respawn room its to have the stealth through it again
C1 was - kill it again, then stealth through it again
it was a double punish
latent obsidian
Well, you were always going to have to stealth through it again right?
tight drum
since you HAD to kill it again
Not a double punish. That clear was already part of the level. You aren't doing it twice anymore then a reactor.
tardy ingot
Well, you were always going to have to stealth through it again right?
yeah. Thats normal
thats the point of respawn rooms
latent obsidian
So I think adding that to the "punishment" is unfair
tardy ingot
the problem is having to double clear and do that. Or having to respawn block which is bleh
tight drum
Like with a reactor is it a double punish because you have to deal with it the first time and the time after you mess up? No because the first wave was already something you always had to do. The punishment is the extra.
Not double. One clear is already part of the level. And if you mess up you have to do one more.
one
late girder
the problem is having to double clear and do that. Or having to respawn block wh...
The afk simulator, at least after patch it wasn’t soo bad
tight drum
And we definitely agree about respawn blocking. That's bad.
tardy ingot
Not a double punish. That clear was already part of the level. You aren't doing ...
you dont understand
Reactor wave:
Correct: 1 wave -> code
Fail: 1 wave -> 1 wave -> code
Respawn room:
Correct: stealth
Fail: clear -> stealth
C1 respawn room
Correct: stealth -> clear -> stealth
Fail: clear -> stealth -> clear -> stealth
its the problem of having to clear it when it respawn again even after that
latent obsidian
Have you not just illustrated blue's point?
The only difference in your steps is one extra clear?
tardy ingot
yeah. But every other respawn room doesnt have that step
and it felt really bad if you didnt want to respawn block
obviously doable
it was a room of giants
but just really time consuming
tight drum
but just really time consuming
i guess i don't understand how that doesn't apply to redoing a reactor wave. especially on R6D3 where you have a time limit and you aren't just wasting resources and risking death but the fog level will get higher.
Seems more punishing actually.
i agree it's different to other respawn rooms.
But i'm not sold on why it's bad.
tardy ingot
id argue its similar to the early respawn room problem
It wasnt necearily super difficult
just tedious
where a1 just had them everywhere and youd just double clear for ages
noble sierra
R5 respawn design encourages player to spawn block, that's the only problem. And the problem is solved in R6.
tardy ingot
yep
tight drum
Okay let me try to understand. What would you do to change that level?
tardy ingot
Okay let me try to understand. What would you do to change that level?
nothing. Because changing that would make it impossible to enjoy the ending as it is
Youd have to rebuild it completely probably
tight drum
I like the central idea so how do you jeep that while fixing this issue you have?
oh well fair enough then..
tardy ingot
I think the current c3 has a „similar“ issue
I dont like the concept of it being muddled by just mining doors 24/7. but taking the doors away would be uhh
quite xD
latent obsidian
Could use tiles with fewer doors if not none
tight drum
I guess it just comes down to a matter of opinion. I don't mind clearing a wave of giants if I mess up. That's the punishment.
is it that stealth is more annoying then combat for you?
You can always shoot them.
latent obsidian
I think the issue is more that you can avoid clearing that room again if someone sits afk for 5-10 mins
tight drum
I think the issue is more that you can avoid clearing that room again if someone...
Okay yes. that's true.
tight drum
Gotcha that does suck
Hmm maybe have a uplink be required for the door with the bridge? so players are forced to leave that room?
i always thought the one to the opposite of the bridge was what you were supposed to do anyway.
when it's there at least.
latent obsidian
Huh just thought.... D4rk you were saying that having the extra room before the bridge wouldn't solve the issue because you could manipulate the screams... Did you do the back terminal second? Because you wouldn't even need to run out of that part otherwise
tardy ingot
im thinking of extreme runs
tardy ingot
also its weird to see people call me d4rk 
latent obsidian
Would you prefer Eva? 🙂
tardy ingot
thats what most people call me yes
Tho i dont mind either. Just hasnt happened in a while
tight drum
As Eva said extreme runs are another reason that level is so good.
Balancing a shadow titan alarm in between respawn rooms is really good and creative.
latent obsidian
Now Ava is someone else entirely 😅
tight drum
oh yeah. Lets just pretend I speak German .
dry pumice
Did devs ever explained why sawed off looks a lot like Mozambique?
Inspiration or just a coincidence?
minor fractal
Could use tiles with *fewer* doors if not none
This isn't super pheasible, btw.
You'd constantly need tiles with only 1-2 rooms, and the only non-door you can semi-force is a tile transition.
Maybe if you spammed sec doors?
For context as to how hard this is to pull off, refinery's smallest tile is 3 rooms and can have up to 5 doors.
distant ice
spawn doors broken
robust maple
is anyone wanting too playÉ
minor fractal
is anyone wanting too playÉ
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surreal topaz
anyone know how to tell if you can shoot without aggroing a scout? i know its a range thing, and the best ive come up with is "if you cant hear the scout then you can shoot and it wont aggro"
also how many ppl does it take to kill a charge scout silently/ what combination of weaps works
tight drum
Over 35 meters the sniper is silent if that's what you mean.
tiny tundra
35 meters yea, and for normal scouts all melee weapons can kill alone
thorny creek
2 rooms away if I'm not mistaken. Also charger scouts can be killed with either 2 hammers (or spears) to the back or any regular scout killing weapon if you aim at the back.
tight drum
But the I don't know if the actual death does anything
tight drum
2 rooms away if I'm not mistaken. Also charger scouts can be killed with either ...
or two rooms away yeah
i'm fairly sure one hammer one bat can kill charger scouts.
95 % sure
surreal topaz
ok cuz i was messing around with dx and one run i was able to shoot 3 scouts in the back and not aggro the close scouts. it aggrod the close titan strikers but not the scouts. i know there is a room divider tho in that room
the first 5 scout room right after the alarm
spark wolf
50m range in your room 30m 1 room away and 10m 2 rooms away
tight drum
also how many ppl does it take to kill a charge scout silently/ what combination...
Yeah it might just be the distance.
surreal topaz
hmm, now i gotta learn how to judge that distance
like i said idk what range you stop hearing enemies
but thats been my starting point
tight drum
it's risky I don't like to do it unless I have to.
But sometimes there are just bad situations and you don't have a choice.
spark wolf
you will also continue to wake things up from the kill itself
so for things very close to what you kill
those will still wake up
same thing that happens with your melee weapons
tight drum
Yeah exactly that's what tends to happen.
surreal topaz
so for things very close to what you kill
maybe thats why cuz the first run i shot a titan in the doorway and 1 other woke up and ran at me, i shot both but nothing else in teh room got mad
tight drum
so for things very close to what you kill
You could shoot that too though.
spark wolf
yes
tight drum
Just jeep shooting from over 35 meters.
surreal topaz
is there a way i can just shoot and aggro titans while leaving the scouts along
tight drum
bam bam bam.
surreal topaz
yea i just went 2 rooms away cuz i know that rule and then i stayed in that room and was fine
tight drum
is there a way i can just shoot and aggro titans while leaving the scouts along
Probably but they'll scream so it won't matter.
spark wolf
they shouldn't scream if 2 rooms or more away
surreal topaz
but i was only 1 room away and shooting and they didnt get mad so thats distance + room
tight drum
Then you must have been over 35 meters.
The two room rule overrides the 35 meter rule so you can be closer.
surreal topaz
or like wesley said "50m range in your room 30m 1 room away and 10m 2 rooms away"
tight drum
But it wouldn't work in dx
surreal topaz
i was 1 room and some distance i just hit it right
tight drum
or like wesley said "50m range in your room 30m 1 room away and 10m 2 rooms away...
I actually don't think that's true but I'm not a determiner or anything.
surreal topaz
sense the room has a divider i think i was 2 rooms with divider to who i was shjooting, but there were people equivalent 1 room away who didnt wake, so distance and room, and the others were 2 room rule
it seems like it could be likely
tight drum
The 50 meters seems like way too much.
spark wolf
in your own room
how many times have you shot in a room and not woke everything in that room
tight drum
how many times have you shot in a room and not woke everything in that room
it's happened before.
in big rooms.
spark wolf
make sure you're host and make sure it's actually just 1 room
surreal topaz
big rooms can be 2
surreal topaz
yea
tawdry path
Hey yall, im struggling on D1 with bots, namely the last stage of the "REACTOR_VERIFY" process. I have tried with two automatic sentries, a c-foam launcher and a mine deployer and placed them at the entrance to that holding room to no avail, I seem to run out of resources right at the end of those four waves. I have also tried with 3 sentries and a c-foam launcher for the sleepers to get caught in while the sentries pick them off, but that doesn't work either. Any tips?
warm yew
Use sentries on 2nd half, not all throughout the reactor
2 bursts, mines and a bio should suffice, if you don't really want the info, swap it with c-cum
tawdry path
word, thanks for the advice, ill try it tomorrow and let you know how it turns out
warm yew
Make sure you're using both guns evenly, if not a bit more special
So you're not overcapping on ammo
tawdry path
i also have the sniper equipped to pick off the big guys cuz that expedition seems to have them everywhere, should I keep using it?
warm yew
Sure, but a bot can take it instead if you want to take something else
tawdry path
can bots land headshots with the sniper?
warm yew
Yes
rigid sinew
that is if they actually are shooting at the enemies instead of trying to hammer
warm yew
Real
tawdry path
ive been using the bat since i started playing, but im seeing a lot of peeps being polarized between the knife and the hammer, is it simply a matter of preference or is there some meta i dont know about?
i personally have had no issue using the bat
warm yew
Knife gaming killing shadow scouts in D3
swift lodge
does D0c Play valorant????
tawdry path
also, if the bots can land headshots, whats the likelihood they prioritize the big guys over the much larger quantity of normal sleepers?
cuz ive put that task on me while the bots take out the rest in conjunction with the sentries
surreal topaz
ok does the big scan in d1 (class 6) pull the respawn big room?
compact pebble
depends
if like a giant is right next to the security door it might get get pulled when you are shooting during the alarm
i've had it happens a couple of times
surreal topaz
if like a giant is right next to the security door it might get get pulled when ...
👍 there is one right there so we'll deal with him
compact pebble
snipe em from far away yeet
compact pebble
gl
surreal topaz
ok we beat it finally! whats opionins on best d lvl? 2-4 and x?
tight drum
ok we beat it finally! whats opionins on best d lvl? 2-4 and x?
Dx is by far the worst for me.
Everything else is really good.