gtfo-related-questions

[tardy ingot]

yes

but this doesnt rly matter

[hoary horizon]

Didn’t spear used to have a penetrating property

So it could hit collaterals

[grizzled patrol]

it was a bug wasnt it

[tiny wyvern]

I believe it's one of the 'mythical' OG R6 bugs

(i wasn't around)

[tardy ingot]

no

it wasnt a bug

it had intended pen

and a lingering hitbox

which was removed

it was there for like 1 patch

[grizzled patrol]

i remember hearing that it was removed because of how bugged it was

[topaz anvil]

Thankfully no sprint was also removed, and now it's only reduced sprint

[grizzled patrol]

something about infinite range

[tardy ingot]

no...

it was just brken

[tardy ingot]

[frail heart]

bro what the fuck are people yapping about

[tiny wyvern]

I don't know, something about spear is good I guess?

[grizzled patrol]

throwing spear is too good, 10C had to glue it to your hands

[frail heart]

imagine that was a thing

[tiny wyvern]

POV: You threw your spear towards a kraken and now you don't have a melee anymore

would ammo packs then refresh your melees

Or would it be tool packs

[grizzled patrol]

Use spear as a jumping pole to launch yourself into the kraken

[tiny wyvern]

like in white knuckle?

[grizzled patrol]

idk not really following indie releases

[keen path]

Use spear like a trident and just fistfight the kraken yourself

[tiny wyvern]

oh markpilier played the demo or smth
Now the disc server has exploded

[azure narwhal]

if i were to create that mod (no idea how to mod) i would either make ammo packs retrieve it if you are unable to or make it so it just respawns if you wait a while,,, but only if specific conditions are met. i dont really know out of the top of my head which conditions would be balanced for this but one could be for example that it only retrieves after like 20 seconds IF you are in combat state, because if you werent you could just use it to kill scouts in rooms without waking something up AND not having to walk towards your melee to retrieve it. but this is all just random thoughts, thats def not the perfect solution

[hoary horizon]

They should add an aperture science rundown

[fathom ice]

team

u do not need to throw ur melee

trust

[azure narwhal]

but if it was unique for the spear it would make it 1. more viable (i know its not NEEDED, but sometimes on your way to a scout there can be enemies that are hard to get past/it just would take long so you can just throw it instead) 2. more special/unique and 3.more FUN

iunno i just cant stop thinking about spear being throwable

because spear is just hammer

i dont see why spear is in the game

its nothing special

[fathom ice]

spear is already kinda unique

[azure narwhal]

knife-quick
bat-stagger (kind of useless but not completely)
hammer - has everything
spear - very similar to hammer but slow

[fathom ice]

spear has range !

and it's better into weakpoints !

[azure narwhal]

yeah but thats basically it

[fathom ice]

u want too much prob

[azure narwhal]

its hard to imagine throwing a spear in gtfo, it does feel like its a bit much

but i cant lie, it would be fun

[ocean spindle]

the way to fix spear was giving it a sleeping multi

so it could do more damage to sleeping enemies

:[

(and make it run normally)

[azure narwhal]

but it one shots them regardless? (except for giants and other bigs i guess)

[ocean spindle]

then it would still be ass on combat for the breakpoints but better on stealth

[ocean spindle]

for giants

in occlusion- a modded rundown- spear has a sleeping multi that i think does 100 ~ damage to an occi of a big

[azure narwhal]

damnnn that sounds like nearly oneshots

[ocean spindle]

then it might actually have a bit of a purpose for giant filled levels

as knife has a purpose for small filled levels [altho the first is admittedly more niche]

[grizzled patrol]

bat is quick lock break and consisten giant solo

[azure narwhal]

i do actually love the lock break on the bat its so chill

[hoary horizon]

Just tie a rope to the end of the spear so you have grappling hook

[hoary horizon]

I’d argue that spear is more beginner friendly maybe?

[azure narwhal]

that would be so funny

[hoary horizon]

With the extra range and damage it certainly helps

[azure narwhal]

i would love a throwable spear + grappling hook

now just make the spear explode on impact

[hoary horizon]

Rain world ass spear

[ocean spindle]

its very bad at teachin melee combat

[hoary horizon]

“Ah yes certainly no problem with my MELEE spear with an explosive attached onto it to help me in MELEE circumstances”

[grizzled patrol]

play moded, you will get it

[azure narwhal]

actually, what exactly is it about spear that makes it so bad? yeah sure it does less damage than hammer, but hitting head has precision multiplier and isnt it safer in combat because you can stay further away from enemies especially in a giant scenario its way easier to stay out of his melee attack range

[hoary horizon]

Slow and hammer is more reliable

[ocean spindle]

its not safer as the elack of runnin can get u killed in multiple scenarios, it consumes about the same stamina as hammer i believe which paired with bad running just serves a lot less
the lack of base damage makes it so its also worse on combat as with hammer even hitting the body with a full charge kills, but here it doesnt, aand that also applies to any stealth u do

[hoary horizon]

Also why poke smth when you can bonk

[wet bear]

Teleporting enemies, aimpunch, skill issue , etc, there's a lot of issues with spear and hitting heads

[hoary horizon]

Can you even slide when sprinting while holding the spear?

[ocean spindle]

yes

[civic wave]

you can to lunge forward

[azure narwhal]

but wont i be walking around/mainly walking backwards during combat because often times i wont have to be quick to run during combat, right? only scenarios i can think of where charging+normal running is really helpful is when you are charging up and want to dodge projectiles OR when you are running through enemies and might aswell attack them while running to extraction or something

[azure narwhal]

theres teleporting enemies???????????????????????

[ocean spindle]

desync

[azure narwhal]

oh i thought we are talking about the slenderman mentioned in the copypasta

[ocean spindle]

if ur walking backwards during combat ur maximinzing ur chances to get hit, remember enemy attacks are a straight corridor with about infinite range

u gotta run towatrds the enemy as it attacks or eeveen before it attacks preferably

and if theres many u may run away, or run TOWARDS theem to hit one, run ahead, dodge the attacks (as they cannot hit behind u) and loop

[azure narwhal]

that makes sense

[hoary horizon]

They should let you place prox mines onto your weapons

[azure narwhal]

but it feels like spear isnt even THAT much worse than hammer, sure hammer is better, i think so too, but imo it gets way too much slander. i think in most scenarios it wont be making much of a difference

[wet bear]

Not only desync, sometimes game thinks that he is in too much incorrect position and fixes him by moving like 1 cm off the wall

[ocean spindle]

i think getting used to it will straight up make u play a little worse

cuz u have to be very defensive with spear

[wet bear]

That's enough for you to miss the knife or spear hit

[azure narwhal]

suure, but one could argue that this is not the spears fault, but the players

[ocean spindle]

the spear aallows it

[azure narwhal]

yes,, but it doesnt necessarily cause it

[knotty relic]

Spear is hard to hit, simply put. Hammer allows you to hit a much larger area because of the way it swings and sprint allows you to dodge while charging etc.

Yeah that’s the player’s fault, but ask the vet speed runners their take (they all use hammer)

[uneven kiln]

i dunno I was watching the speedrunners on R5E1 and I saw some Knives

[frozen estuary]

r5e1 doesn't have many doors that need breaking

bats can also be useful if there are a lot of locks

[tardy ingot]

you run
hammer
sometimes rarely knife
and ultra rarely bat

[frozen estuary]

spear is the only melee that is never used in speedrunning afaik

[little pilot]

hammer is objectively better in every way than spear and the good thing about it is it allows for behaviours which are better gameplay wise

spear FORCES bad behaviour

[tardy ingot]

hey hey

[little pilot]

knife is just giga small clear

[tardy ingot]

spear is the better niche boss kill

[little pilot]

bat is lock breaking.exe

[frozen estuary]

the comment about "not causing bad habits" is kind of not true because it in fact does force a slower playstyle by literally slowing you down when charging melee

[little pilot]

that slow down makes people think there is no purpose in trying to go faster

and they end up taking stealth insanely slow

[frozen estuary]

and more active play style is more efficient in pretty much all levels imo. by active i don't mean "run and gun", i mean having the capability to quickly respond to certain situations

[little pilot]

because spear also requires precision aka headshots to actually kill beginners tend to take even more time aiming it

[frozen estuary]

in general clearing a room with 10 strikers shouldn't take 10 minutes

[little pilot]

compare this to hammer where walking and melee-ing becomes the default

[carmine crescent]

good evening, me and my friend are having trouble on the warden survival protocal in r7c3. what weapons and tool would be recommended in that mission?

[knotty relic]

Spear guy never came back 😞

[weary scaffold]

What are considered the 'best' weapons at the moment?

[upper ginkgo]

sawed off, hel gun / rifle, scattergun, hel revo

[ocean spindle]

helautopiss

carbine

combat shottie

hel shotgun

[weary scaffold]

Good to know - I'm currently my team's marksman so I've been running HEL Revolver and Sniper for dealing with Giants but maybe I should ditch the sniper for something else?

[ocean spindle]

uhh u can

sometimes the sniper can be good but for most missions ur better off just taking other stuff as snipers niche

snipers mostly good for hybrids so if u struggle with thosee on some reactor thats usually when u take it

but well theres a LOT of guns that range from decent to great with bigs, so lotta stuff to choose

[weary scaffold]

Gotcha! I've been using as like a get rid of this big or Scout right now as we enter a room or to quickly pop bigs while we do alarms but yeah I'll for sure check some other weapons

[ocean spindle]

theres a lot of guns that can deal with a scout too ksks

so do be aware of that too

this is about ur time to experiment, so if u want a 'shooting range' id recommend just taking whatevs and droppin into a level to check out stuff

like r1b1 or r1a1 which have combat early on

plus its a good practice, u can try with a bot or even solo if u feel brave

[weary scaffold]

I'll definitely give the shotties, scattergun and burst rifle a try

[ocean spindle]

gaming :D

[weary scaffold]

Gaming!

[ocean spindle]

burst rifle my beloved

pewpew

[weary scaffold]

Since you seem like super knowledgeable I also wanted to ask do you have any magical tips or advice on the biotracker?

[ocean spindle]

ummm i mean not rlly (both in the magic and the knowledgeable KSMDKM)
u just kinda get the feeling of the cooldown when u got a time playin

and this leads u to be able to ping, get ur weapon out to shoot and then re-ping once u sort of know that is back up

and of course u try ur best to get as many enemies in the screen as possible

cuz pinging one enemy as soon as the wave starts well its its

yes KMWKDSM

[novel agate]

I had a question about one of the color palletes. I was looking at some of the available unlockable palletes on the wiki and boticed there was an early access palletes I dont have on my account. I swear I was playing this game in its early access phase too. Is there a way I can pull up the actual date I bought this game on Steam somehow to see if I played it then?

I mean-I have the year of the tiger mask and played a bit before that one came out, i coulda sworn thatw as during early access

[ocean spindle]

pretty sure the tiger mask was after gtfo had come out of early access

[hoary mason]

Steam -> Top Right click on nickname -> account details -> View Purchase History -> scroll down to pull up full list -> Ctrl + F -> GTFO

[novel agate]

Ah, I gotcha

[ocean spindle]

if u had the game during EA u get one single pallete

theee early adopter one

[novel agate]

Ill check the date I started playing

[ocean spindle]

the rest that are eunaccesible are from R6 and usually related to goals like

completing all the overload sectors

the mission stories

so if u played by then but didnt got too far, u might not unlocked em

[novel agate]

January 27, 2022 is when I got the game

I doubt I can check when I first played it but I cant imagine it being long after buying it

[ocean spindle]

duringgg 6.0 yes

rundown 6

but still u mightve played and gotten some cosmetics but not the exclusive ones

idk it depends on ur progression

cuz for "overload six" i think its called, u mustve beaten the game till the end of the D tiers

[novel agate]

I gotcha, I know I played some but it wasnt a crazy amount so that was most likely it

[mighty jungle]

how are overloads and secondary's difficulties usually

is it like a B tier level's secondary is C tier difficulty and its overload is D tier
or is it just marginally more difficult
or does it vary too much level to level to explain it like that

[patent mulch]

i'd say on average a secondary on a B tier would be between B-C and overload would be around a C tier in difficulty but it really just depends on the mission

[mighty jungle]

also just noticed if i said that D tier missions would have overload F tiers 😭 so maybe not that

[burnt inlet]

nah like it just depends on level, theres no set

[mighty jungle]

i see

[azure narwhal]

i get that, but i dont think its really the big deal its made out to be. if you are just playing casually then every weapon is viable. personally i dont really like playing spear because i just like clear rooms quickly and kill alot of smalls in a small period of time, but i also rarely ever play hammer, i only play hammer in levels with alot of giants. but i dont really think if i were to drop into a giant level with a spear that it would screw me over, in fact i think the spear is better when it comes to soloing giants IF you are just a casual player. sure hammer is maybe technically speaking better for giants but with spear if you can stay out of their range and its just safer/easier IMO. also i really like to have a spear on the team if theres scouts in the level cuz goddamn its easy to get a scout with a spear, i personally find it easier killing a scout with a knife than a hammer because of the lingering hitbox, and i think spear has that too (not sure, but i saw it somewhere, i rarely play spear).

like in conclusion of my personal opinion:
hammer IS better than spear in almos all cases (the only one where its not being maybe scouts? (i know scouts are also easy killable with hammer, but its just that i think its a little bit eas__ier__ than with hammer)
BUT
spear is not a "you pick it you are bad" weapon. its defenitely playable and it just comes down to preference
EXCEPT if you want to play 100% optimally, speedrun or something similar to that, then spear is not a good pick, because it just isnt optimal.

its just that i hate to see spear get so so so much slander when its just another melee that also works

[burnt inlet]

no scout is guaranteed better with hammer

[azure narwhal]

because you can run through the tentacles?

[burnt inlet]

yes

its the easiest/least risky unironically

[azure narwhal]

i dont think thats much of a difference, you just wait for it to retract, walk up turn your flash on so he extence his feelers and its also an easy kill

[patent mulch]

what are the chances a beginner hits shoulder with hammer and with spear is what i shall say

[hoary horizon]

I think bat actually might be more forgiving

Even if you miss or don’t kill with the initial hit you can stagger lock smalls

[azure narwhal]

but thats just skill issue, in my opinion its not really a big difference. i dont see the problem with hitting heads with spear? you aim at head and release left click? its not that hard. sure, the hammer has the swing hitbox which might make it easier, but its not like its hard with spear

[mighty jungle]

i wasnt here for this whole convo but ill give my part on it, i think spear is an incredibly good learning weapon, its consistent, it does a lot of damage, and it hits where you aim.
while teaching people how to play the game the one thing that pisses someone off the most is missing the head of an enemy and hitting the floor with the hammer unironically worst feeling
i dont personally run spear because i know how to use hammer, ive had more time on it, so spear just feels slower

[azure narwhal]

rare spear praising

[mighty jungle]

its just cause ive had the misfortune of teaching people this game i see its use 😭

[patent mulch]

with spear you pretty much never hit shoulder unless you actively flinch but i've hit shoulder a good number of times with hammer because of the swing

[azure narwhal]

ohh wait,, you are saying its easier with SPEAR than with hammer? i misread your other message then

mb

[mighty jungle]

honestly if you learn how to kill scouts with spear doing it with hammer later on should be easy
you'll know where to hit and you can sprint faster now

just sayin

its kinda goat

[azure narwhal]

i think it really doesnt make that much of a difference what melee somebody chooses, for scout kills its very similar for knife&bat and for hammer&spear,, imo theres not really a "if you wanna kill scouts, play THIS and nothing else"- weapon

[frail heart]

its bad

you can play it

but its bad

[patent mulch]

spear is just much easier to learn

[digital mural]

Spear is horrible

Genuinely horrible

[mighty jungle]

they're here 💔

[patent mulch]

the vets came

[hoary horizon]

I think spear is played because people read the description and think it’s the best option

[digital mural]

Holy shit I am a vet now?

[burnt inlet]

hammer is just so much quicker

[upper ginkgo]

lmaooo

[mighty jungle]

as a scout playground connoisseur 🧐 i think all weapons are perfectly viable for scout killing unless its a charger scout

[burnt inlet]

mfw theres two scouts in a room ^

[digital mural]

4 knifes vs CScout

Best strategy

Trust

[mighty jungle]

lock in

you can do anything if you just lock in

[upper ginkgo]

real and true

[azure narwhal]

that is such a hyperbolic thing to say. yall are acting like the difference is the same as if hammer one shots giants with no charge and spear needs 3 full charges for a small. its really not THAT big of a deal. spear is slower yes, but its not unplayable/a horrible pick UNLESS you want to speedrun or play 100% optimally (as mentioned before)

for casual play they are nearly the same

[upper ginkgo]

would it be accurate to say that hammer and spear are equal in stealth situations

[frail heart]

spear is quite restricting

[frail heart]

na

[digital mural]

Good luck trying to deal with more than 5 enemies awake with spear

[frail heart]

breakpoints on hammer are just better

[mighty jungle]

i think no just because of enemies being together
you can kill like 3 enemies together with spear and 4 with hammer its a marginal difference but still there

[azure narwhal]

the only weapons i would 1v5 enemies with would be knife or bat, im just playing casually yk, im not a pro to avoid 5 enemies at once, id prolly just gun them down. if i had hammer OR spear i would take some damage with both of those weapons

[mighty jungle]

lock in and melee only cmon keksi

[digital mural]

Triple kills are not that common

[mighty jungle]

hitless 10 strikers melee only

[azure narwhal]

knife yes

[digital mural]

Sometimes you will have to deal with a decent amount of enemies with melee

[azure narwhal]

not even probably

[digital mural]

And hammer/bat/knife is good for it

Spear falls down really hard

[hoary horizon]

I think it’s just that the skill ceiling for spear is not as high as the other weapons

So yea

Speed is just too strong of a stat

[frail heart]

spear is fine for your first like 50 hours

[mighty jungle]

also
if you're in that situation you could like, ask one of your 3 friendly teammates to help you kindly murder the fellows

[frail heart]

you should just get used to hammer

[hoary horizon]

Hammer is more fun imo

I like the bonk

[azure narwhal]

i dont see how the damage falls off "really hard" hammer and spear have the same charge time and sure spear does 3 less damage but it has precision multi, no?

[digital mural]

One player is enough

should

Be enough

[mighty jungle]

solo a1 spear

[digital mural]

You can't sprint while charging with spear

[azure narwhal]

i think so too, but spear is getting WAY too much hate

[digital mural]

That's a MASSIVE down

[frail heart]

No not really

theres a reason why it gets so much hate

[mighty jungle]

i think we've lost the plot
bat is sitting right there

[keen seal]

nice for stealth ass for anything else

[digital mural]

Spear forces you to play slow one way or another

[azure narwhal]

i thought you can, but you're slower. which is still bad but when will i ever be fighting 5+ enemies at once AND be forced to melee? i cant even remember once where that happened. even if hamemr is 2 gazillion times better against multiple enemies than spear, if theres too many i just use my guns?

[hoary horizon]

My logic is the more you can take out w melee the less ammo you spend gunning the rest down

[digital mural]

As a casual player in higher and mid levels you can't afford to waste ammo in a lot of sections in levels

That's why meleeing is the option

You can't just shoot them

[hoary horizon]

I just think spear would get less hate if it filled a niche the other melee’s didn’t

[upper ginkgo]

make spear the boss killer it was destined to be

[digital mural]

R1 and R2 don't have many moments like this
But after R3 they are very very common

[azure narwhal]

but i dont understand, (as i havent been in such a level it seems) how does a situation occure, where i need to melee multiple enemies? if theres an alarm theres no way im meleeing 20 respawning enemies while doing scans, even with knife. and if there isnt, then i just stealth? and if i am stealthing the room as long as nothing wakes up theres basically no difference because i wouldnt be charging and sprinting during stealth anyways (unless theres enough room for that) cuz i dont wanna wake 4 enemies at once

[hoary horizon]

Attach consumables to the end of the spear

[mighty jungle]

p mother spear only solo when

🙏

[hoary horizon]

Attach c foam nade to the end of a spear

[azure narwhal]

cant wait for this update and poke giants with a long range flashlight

[digital mural]

Meleeing error alarms, awake rooms when you are low in ammo and there's an alarm coming up, waking up scouts,

[frail heart]

this isnt me being mean or anything, but this is just you not having enough experience

[mighty jungle]

wait.
make it so you can throw the spear.
top 1 weapon

[digital mural]

There's a lot of situations where it can happen

[frail heart]

you can play spear

[upper ginkgo]

valid take, this game dark as shit

[frail heart]

but trust people who say spear is the worst melee

when they have 10x the hours

[hoary horizon]

It just sounds like smth from legend of Zelda’s tears of the kingdom fuse rune

[azure narwhal]

me when i havent seen the discussion about the throwable exploding spear

[digital mural]

You haven't seen them yet

[upper ginkgo]

frosty pulled the skill issue card, it's over

[digital mural]

But you will

[frail heart]

i gotta do it

[mighty jungle]

there isnt a mod for it yet so obviously the devs should add it

[frail heart]

im a toxic vet

[mighty jungle]

yea kinda

[digital mural]

Always baby girl

[mighty jungle]

meanie 💔

[digital mural]

Now come kiss me

[azure narwhal]

nah you are right, i genuinely havent been to such a level, thats why its so mindblowing to me

[hoary horizon]

Place a lantern at the end of the spear tip and it covers light 360 degrees

[frail heart]

I HAVE A GIRLFRIENDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[digital mural]

:(

I forgor

[mighty jungle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1224526373188665445/1286117505152323634/SPOILER_attachment.gif

oh my embed

ohhh my embed

[civic wave]

partner=/= in a mono relationship

[digital mural]

I thought GTFO players didn't had lives outside this game

[frail heart]

it is the norm tho

its not unreasonable to assume that

[civic wave]

societally yeah, there's more mono than poly relationships

[hoary horizon]

GTFO players suffer from an addiction to the expedition survived sound

[digital mural]

It's a good sound you know

[civic wave]

but I'd also argue that the word norm should be treated with a bit of caution because it could imply that something is abnormal - but that's to do with language and not the conversation at hand

[hoary horizon]

I hate that can’t stop smiling when I hear it

[mighty jungle]

ok but i got a question what level of importance is each part of the loadout like
1 tool
2 special
3 primary
4 melee
whats your tier list chat

[upper ginkgo]

mfw the gtfo ambience music never works

[digital mural]

Special is your main

[frail heart]

tool is usually the most important

[hoary horizon]

Most important is which prisoner your playing: Hackett is the best

[digital mural]

We have ambience music?

[mighty jungle]

im getting conflicting results my tests are gonna be horrible

[upper ginkgo]

you get music in stealth at the start of levels

sometimes

[azure narwhal]

well, if theres a level with those error alarms where the speed makes the difference, then i am def on your side that spear would be a bad pick for those levels. but this seems to be the case for only D levels? maybe some C levels? i havent been to such a level. i have cleared one D level with my friends where he played spear and i was playing bat and one D level where i was playing with a pro (skuller) and i didnt even know whats happening in the level we were just speedrunning. but we never meleed alot, he was going to terminals and stuff while the other 3 were just holding the alarm with guns, so even then the spear wouldnt have lost us the run because it made no difference.

but even if hypothetically speaking EVERY D level was unbeatable with spear i wouldnt say spear is a bad weapon, i would say its not viable FOR THOSE SPECIFIC LEVELS. if i can play spear in A, B and C levels its not a "horrible" weapon in general, at MAX its "horrible" for those specific mentioned levels

[hoary horizon]

I was referring to the song once you finish an expedition

[civic wave]

"pro (skuller)"...

[hoary horizon]

GTFO players have an addiction to that

[civic wave]

sorry, just being amused

[digital mural]

Wall of text jumpscare

Aaaaaah

[mighty jungle]

"i aint reading allat" ass chat

[digital mural]

I'm reading it anyways

Lol

[azure narwhal]

its just that i genuinely dont understand the spear hate. i genuinely dont get it. i just dont understand

[hoary horizon]

I’m so confused on the state of the spear debate

[digital mural]

What D level did you played?

[upper ginkgo]

you should p*b more so random ppl can start namedropping you

[civic wave]

spear simply doesn't offer much

[azure narwhal]

was called chihuahua or something

bianhua

[digital mural]

Chihuahua

LOL

[azure narwhal]

and R7D2 (i THINK) with skuller

[digital mural]

💀

[civic wave]

range? not an important matter when it compromises your movement that much and you can dodge enemies

[mighty jungle]

can we start calling that level chihuahua from now on 🙏

isnt that r4d1

or r3

[azure narwhal]

r3 i think

[mighty jungle]

i dont remeber

[azure narwhal]

yes r3

because i played it right after alpha

and alpha was c1 in r3

[civic wave]

r4d1 is nucleus

[frail heart]

a weapon isnt bad only if it makes you die in the level

hammer is just better

[digital mural]

Funy reactor

[mighty jungle]

the powerhouse of the sell or smth

[digital mural]

That is the mitochondria

[mighty jungle]

guys

i messed up

[burnt inlet]

chat he needs a bio lesson

[mighty jungle]

💔

[hoary horizon]

What did yall do for bio in high school

[burnt inlet]

tracked a bunch of sleepers

[mighty jungle]

have a teacher who lowkey liked some of the students

[upper ginkgo]

hmmm

[burnt inlet]

sus

[hoary horizon]

In a good way or sus way

[digital mural]

I did a bunch of models, that's all I remember

[mighty jungle]

sus way

....

[digital mural]

That's when I realised I suck at craft and arts

[mighty jungle]

didnt even say it right

[hoary horizon]

I’m writing research papers

[mighty jungle]

arts and crafts way better bro

[azure narwhal]

yes, hammer is better. i have agreed to that. but people are acting like spear is just SO much worse than hammer.
in my opinion hammer is better in almost every situation, but 99% of those situations can also be handled with spear. the difference is made out to be galaxies when its just not even close to that at all

[upper ginkgo]

you should argue against burst pistol hate for me

[hoary horizon]

I think it’s just the idea that if hammer is better why are you playing spear

[mighty jungle]

i think short rifle is worse than spear but thats just me

[hoary horizon]

Idk spear isn’t even that bad

[digital mural]

BP > Hel revolver

[azure narwhal]

this is an arguement that i can see, but it still doesnt mean that hammer is 8 gigagayzillion times better than spear

[digital mural]

(it is)

[hoary horizon]

Gigagay zillion?

[azure narwhal]

yes

[digital mural]

Gyatzillion

[mighty jungle]

Literally me

[azure narwhal]

me when my name is gyatzillion

rename yourself NOW

[mighty jungle]

yes ma'am

[hoary horizon]

Man ltg is so weird

[upper ginkgo]

gtfo chat argument where a party actually has their opinion changed challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)

[mighty jungle]

dude

[mighty jungle]

did you see his debt

[digital mural]

💀

Wtf is that name

[hoary horizon]

Noooooo

[mighty jungle]

YOU DID THIS

[hoary horizon]

How much

The debt

[mighty jungle]

i think it was like 200k

😭

[hoary horizon]

😭

WHAT

WHAT DID HE DO

[mighty jungle]

from his child support he dosent pay 😭

[hoary horizon]

😭 😭 😭

[mighty jungle]

ok ok

not AS BAD

its ONLY 121k

😭

[hoary horizon]

THATS STILL SO MUCH

[digital mural]

That isn't much better

[mighty jungle]

dude please look up Lowtierbalrog in youtube and look at the video titles

its so funny

[hoary horizon]

Watching ltg play SFV and raging is really funny as well

[mighty jungle]

most recent upload "LowTierGod Tries Repo But Someone Calls Out His Highschool Sweetheart Thats STILL In Highschool"

[civic wave]

really automod

[digital mural]

We don't have freedom of speech in here

[civic wave]

fucking hell

the word that starts with scr, like scratch, and ends in ape

[digital mural]

That's auto modded?

Wtf

[civic wave]

yes

[mighty jungle]

has that one r word in it so

L

[civic wave]

you can get by with any loadout but that shouldn't be taken as proof of efficacy, basically

[errant dome]

doesnt surprise me, fucking is not auto modded, but the version without the u is for some reason

[digital mural]

fcking

[mighty jungle]

freaking

[digital mural]

🤔

[errant dome]

hmm

it mightve been some other letter, shit i forgor

its f-king

missing u and c

[azure narwhal]

it almost seems to me that they dont even know what i mean. i DO think that hammer is better than spear, and yes i DO get that if hammer is almost always better than spear in every situation there doesnt really seem to be a reason for playing spear. even if weapon x outclasses weapon y in every scenario by 0.000001% (which i am not saying is the case for hammer and spear btw) then one could also argue that you should NEVER EVER play weapon y. but it doesnt mean that weapon y cant be played. i know the difference between spear and hammer is bigger than 0.000001%, but its still the same principle . spear can handle almost every situation that a hammer can handle but its a tiny bit more difficult (except for SPECIFIC scenarios). IN GENERAL spear is playable and similar to hammer in ALOT of levels (i am not saying all!!!!!) so how come people are saying spear is a HORRIBLE pick and an EXTREMELY BAD weapon?????

[civic wave]

so yes you can get by with spear, but that doesnt say anything about the comparative strength of the two weapons

phone completely froze btw

[hoary mason]

the melee choice isn't tied to the tier of level at all, mind that there's myriad of different situations sprawled across each tier and there's no realistically any rule that can unify and make the thinking load of picking certain tools/melee/weapons to per-tier easier. Each level will require unique approach to it

Also spear ass

[mighty jungle]

wall of text vs phoner

[digital mural]

Wall of text jumpscare

Aaaaah

[azure narwhal]

where did gyatzillion go

[mighty jungle]

i looked at it and was like "why do i look like that" and changed it

[hoary mason]

Spear can handle != spear is efficient at handling

[azure narwhal]

you dont like gyatzillion? 💔

[hoary mason]

It fucking sucks ass on everything except range and damage multi

[mighty jungle]

🦈

[errant dome]

your issue is that you dont recognize time is a resource

[frail heart]

[upper ginkgo]

ruh roh scoobs another spear hater has entered the chat

[hoary mason]

Which is like, for normal sleepers it's already overkill when every other melee tool can kill them more effectively.

[errant dome]

i mean

[digital mural]

Holy shit Mostima

[frail heart]

you can use spear

[errant dome]

i dont like spear, but it does work

[upper ginkgo]

exu alter when

[frail heart]

i have used spear

[hoary mason]

in 6 months

[frail heart]

spear is quite shit compared to hammer

[errant dome]

that said, hammer is superior by a considerable amount

[frail heart]

you lose less health using hammer

etc etc

[civic wave]

nah nah it's funnier this way, I love watching the newer gen players ego people

[errant dome]

^

[upper ginkgo]

i did the same shit 2 years ago

[azure narwhal]

it was just way easier to explain that way. i was trying to explain it via difficulty, obviously i know that no every D level is super hard and not every C level is super easier (same goes for other tiers obvs), but i just wanted to get the concept of viability for specific levels for the spear across. more specific example was the error alarm. another one i can add eventho i am defending spear would be running to extraction and fighting off enemies while you're at it.

[upper ginkgo]

such is the cycle

[azure narwhal]

thats why i said its more difficult

[frail heart]

also, you can use any weapon on any level and its "viable", but it does not mean its good or not a detriment

and there are weapons that just are in a category where playing them is just detremental

you can play spear

it is not very good

[digital mural]

Bullpup

[azure narwhal]

but you cant tell me i will sit in a level for 30+ minutes more than with hammer just because i have -x% movement speed while charging and running. the melee will often be used for stealths, and during those i walk instead of running, cuz running would wake stuff up

[hoary mason]

[frail heart]

i will also say, there are actually situations where having hammer can save you from waking a room, losing health, etc etc

[azure narwhal]

im not trying to sound like a klugscheißer,,, its just that i dont really get your points and it seems to me they are not considering the stuff i am saying

[upper ginkgo]

omg hiii exu

[digital mural]

We already have Exu alter

Just not in GLB

[frail heart]

i am considering your points

[azure narwhal]

saving from losing health makes sense, as you can fight more enemies at once, but how can it save you from waking a room?

[mighty jungle]

i love scout rifle

[ocean lance]

YES CHAT KEEP GOING

[mighty jungle]

hi chat

[ocean lance]

I'm bored out of my mind at work rn

fuel my entertainment

[frail heart]

if you get a long range aggro and cant make it in time with spear

[mighty jungle]

hows work

[civic wave]

you're faster with hammer with better stagger

[frail heart]

^

[civic wave]

you can close a bigger gap

[frail heart]

you might not even stagger the enemy with spear

[civic wave]

hitting an enemy is more likely to stagger it due to the damage

[ocean lance]

sometimes you long range something really far

[azure narwhal]

that does make sense, but what if my friends are split up so they are also there at enemies nearby killing them aswell?

[digital mural]

When In doubt, spam the shove button

[ocean lance]

you cna sprint and kill it with hammer

you can't with spear

[errant dome]

its not about the -% movement speed, spear's main issue is its terrible thresholds, it will take you longer and is also riskier to melee an error with spear, same with stealthing as well, and more time = more chance of waves to spawn and falling behind in melee and just in general more chance of fuking up

[hoary mason]

It's WAY more easier to recover when you do proxy agro cause you can essentially shred through enemies with hammer, knife and bat easily, whilst spear doesn't allow you to properly reposition and it requires full charges, which are long to do. Just doing tappies with spear is even worse cause you waste a lot of stam and do no damage at all.

[digital mural]

Tru is cooking something

He doesn't stop typing

[civic wave]

tru is telling me off for getting auto modded

[frail heart]

but what if they arent

[azure narwhal]

okay, i am too lazy to do the math on that but spear has a damage multiplier, how come the damage is an issue? hitting the head is not really hard

[azure narwhal]

yes, then hammer is better. but why wouldnt they

[frail heart]

[ocean lance]

cause you split up with hammer but you can't with spear

there's your issue

[native sun]

@azure narwhal I think a lot of your thought process is using a somewhat ill-suited concept of "value".

I think one of the best ways to assign value is judging how much a weapon choice (or any other choice) increases your chances of beating a level.

When you use this way of thinking about value, then what starts to matter a lot is whether or not a weapon can get you through the incredibly scuffed situations where another weapon would fail. Cases where both weapons can handle a situation just aren't important (your win-chance doesn't change so the different weapons don't have different "value").

This is why the community would generally say HEL Gun is MUCH MUCH stronger than Revo. Revo "does better" in controlled situations, where it is just a few enemies coming at once and you're able to simply headshot each of them. But this just isn't an important situation when evaluating the weapon's value, because it's not a situation where you're dying. The situations where you're dying are when 20 enemies are rocking up at once and this is a situation where HEL Gun out-performs Revo significantly. So, we say HEL Gun is much better than Revo.

[ocean lance]

this is a certified professor tru moment

[frail heart]

Tru is better at explaining

i dont have the energy to

[ocean lance]

yeah he is

I don't know how to explain

I just know things are objectively better

[digital mural]

From what I have seen he is the most technical knowledge person in the server

[native sun]

It is a similar situation with Spear.

Spear is bad in scuffed situations where you're required to melee multiple enemies. It impairs your movement, has bad stagger and bad breakpoints.

Your argument is that this isn't a common situation, and that you shouldn't consider it. But this is literally the exact kind of situation where life and death can be in the balance and is THE situation where your melee choice is meaningfully impacting your win-chance and is thus THE situation to use when evaluating a weapon's value.

[frail heart]

he knows a lot

hes the thinkler

[azure narwhal]

yes that does make sense. error alarm could be harsh on spear and i see how the movement can really be a pain. but thats just one scenario where spear really has a hard time. and as i said,, spear can handle MOST situations that hammer can handle not ALL. spear is not absolute dogdoodoo just because it cant handle this specific situation

[ocean lance]

I mean he does teach stuff for work afaik

[hoary mason]

light taps (as in clicking LMB without charging spear) are the worst on spear

[hoary mason]

balls tinkler

[ocean lance]

it's not just that specific situation though

[native sun]

Being "better" at stealth just doesn't meaningfully contribute to a weapon's "value" very much. Stealth is the easy part of the game where you're not likely to wipe no matter what.

[ocean lance]

we already mentioned another one where your teammate won't be able to help you if you long range afar

[digital mural]

Me waking up the room with 6 scouts (and a bunch of giants):

[native sun]

Being able to melee a scout wave to conserve ammo. Being able to melee the last portion of a wave to conserve ammo. These are things that meaningully change your win-chances on a lot of levels. Spear is bad at these.

This is also why the community can say stuff that seems contradictory, like Spear is "playable" or "fine" and then also that it is "by far the worst weapon".

It can get you through the easy parts just fine. But when stuff is scuffed and your win-chance is actually on the line, it is doo-doo.

[ocean lance]

doo-doo

[burnt inlet]

tru is so tru rn

[digital mural]

Professor Tru

[burnt inlet]

we shall all be listening to professor tru

[azure narwhal]

i understand your point. but its not quite what i mean. if everybody were to follow this thought process tho then nobody would play spear. because as mentioned a few times now, spear IS worse than hammer in BASICALLY every situation. the thing that i am argueing about and i just cant wrap my head around is the DIFFERENCE of strength people are saying that lies between spear and hammer. i know that if spear can do it, hammer can do it better. but that doesnt mean that spear is 8 gigagayzillion times worse than hammer.
yes: why would you pick spear instead of hammer? if you are playing optimal then NEVER. spear just doesnt have its own purpose, but hammer isnt THAT MUCH better than spear.

yes,, you could argue hammer IS that much better than spear because its basically always better,, but this doesnt mean that spear is a HORRIBLE pick for a level. yes for some levels i can imagine it is nearly impossible to get through certain situations with the spear and hammer can do it. but just dont play spear in THOSE LEVELS,,, if its playable in other levels then it cannot be HORRIBLE.
on a scale of how good a weapon would be and lets say hammer is 100/100 i would put spear on 80/100.
that would mean sear should never be played cuz hammer is better but if you just like spear more for whatever reason then most of the time you can still play it. i just cant fathom how people can say hammer is gigazillion times better than spear.

[burnt inlet]

WoT moment

[azure narwhal]

another jumpscare

no warning

[burnt inlet]

got 180 heartbeat now

not even in a speedrun

[native sun]

Spear really is THAT MUCH worse than Hammer in the situations which actually matter when evaluating a weapon's value.

When 3 enemies rock up and you're at 20% health Spear is literally getting you killed a lot of the time. And this (and others like it) is the only situation that matters when evaluating your melee's value.

[digital mural]

TGB is here too

Oh god

[burnt inlet]

👋

[little pilot]

i recommend to NEVER take spear because the game literally becomes considerably worse with spear, u are forced to play worse

u are forced to play slower

u are forced to play shittier

[ocean lance]

what if I uninstall the game

can I take spear then

[digital mural]

No

[frail heart]

cna

[burnt inlet]

cna

[ocean lance]

OK buddy

[digital mural]

cna

[little pilot]

literally there is a massive gap between spear and hammer

in every way

[azure narwhal]

but thats basically only relevant if you are the only one left running spear, if others are there they can 3v3 the enemis and revive you.
i know if you WERE to be the last one and had a hammer your survival chances are way higher.
like,, i get it hammer is better. but i have NEVER been out of ammo, the last one alive and its just close enough from the amount of enemies that spear just cant do it but hammer can. its either we are getting rolled cuz of a bad loadout in general and no fitting weapons for the level or we can do it comfortably. there has been like 2 times that me and my friends died on extraction, i guess you could call that a close one where the difference between hammer wouldve kept you alive IF we also didnt have any ammo left (which we did)

[native sun]

???
Your response is "just get carried"?

[ocean lance]

LOL

[azure narwhal]

how

if i die my teammates can res me

have you NEVER died?

and got rescued?

[keen seal]

did someone say world of tanks?

[native sun]

Doesn't matter what I bring, my teammates will just carry and revive me with their gigagazillion times better weapons

[digital mural]

Gyatzillion*

[azure narwhal]

@native sun ?? why being so passive aggressive? i just want to understand it. i honestly genuinely just dont get the hate and i really am here to understand.

if i die should i just not let my friends revive me and alt + f4 because that would mean i am getting carried?

[ocean lance]

this is not real chat

[native sun]

Again. The "close calls" are the only situations that matter when evaluating your weapon's value. If it's not a close call then the choice is not changing the weapon's "value".

Spear gets you wiped in the close calls. Hammer clutches the close calls. Hammer is therefore significantly better than Spear.

[burnt inlet]

no ok, the times where spear would get you killed whilst hammer wouldnt get you killed is so many that its considered carrying, several times during a run btw

if you die once no biggie, if you die every encounter with a decent amount of enemies yanno

[ocean lance]

idk moth

if you play spear you play around spear which is slower/worse

[native sun]

Going from 100% to win to 100% to win doesn't matter. You can run whatever you want when you have 100% to win.

Going from 40% to win to 70% to win is where you can actually get value from a weapon choice, you fundamentally need "close calls" in order to be able to get any value from a weapon choice.

[ocean lance]

you can play spear

[upper ginkgo]

tru is trying to explain to you that the basis on which you are evaluating a melee weapon is flawed

you two are using two different rulers and tru is trying to convince you to use a more accurate ruler so you can make the same conclusion regarding the power difference between hammer and spear

[ocean lance]

you just play worse

[burnt inlet]

yea not really what i meant but idk how to explain it better

[ocean lance]

if you want to cripple yourself cause you want to play spear go for it

but recognise hammer is just so much better at least

[azure narwhal]

well, if hammer is better in close calls, then yes its just better. but if the difference is really only noticable in those calls and maybe some error alarm levels then i dont think the difference is HUGE. i know that hammer is better, and when in doubt just pick hammer but people are saying the difference is so unbelievably big.
to me the DIFFERENCE of strength doesnt seem to be that big of a deal. sure, in rare occasions you can die and could've survived with hammer. but if i die once every 100 levels because of spear i dont really think its a big difference. honestly, even if i died once every 10 levels it wouldnt be a big difference imo.

[frail heart]

your argument is just "we never had that situation so it doesnt matter"

like

[ocean lance]

hold on

[frail heart]

you can run ANYTHING in your situations

[burnt inlet]

a bit of a tangent but arent errors really common and quick stealthing req for some levels?

[ocean lance]

how much hammer have you played keksi

[errant dome]

"once every 100 levels", those situations where you die because of spear are NOT once every 100 levels

[ocean lance]

if you say less than 100 hours

it's kinda fucked ngl

[burnt inlet]

they a hammer main i believe

[azure narwhal]

but how come i havent? if the difference is THAT EXTREMELY noticable then it shouldve happened to me at least a few times now, no?

[native sun]

It sounds like you have not experienced many of the situations where a weapon choice has meaningfully impacted your win-chance. So yes. If you do not encounter situations where your weapon choice has meaningfully impacted your win-chance then your weapon choice will not matter.

[azure narwhal]

most of the time playing knife or bat,,, rarely hammer and even more rarely spear

[ocean lance]

...

[burnt inlet]

nvm

[ocean lance]

why are we having this argument then

with someone thst hasn't played either weapon

what

[frail heart]

bc you are playing A tiers my friend

[ocean lance]

iirc he's cleared r3d1

[upper ginkgo]

skill issue card pulled again

[ocean lance]

idk if he's gone further

[upper ginkgo]

take a shot

[frail heart]

ooo very hard

[ocean lance]

I know frosty

[errant dome]

isnt r3d1 like 2nd easiest d tier behind r1d1?

[frail heart]

i can run spear in r3d1 solos

[errant dome]

well maybe r8d1

i barely remember that lvl

[hoary mason]

so you've never been in a situation where you had to clutch the 3 down? On error? To recover?

You've only been in situations where you had to be the one carried

[upper ginkgo]

R8D1 is pretty hard

[hoary mason]

And you judging weapon viability on your usage?

ON YOUR EXPERIENCE

My bad

[upper ginkgo]

how am I suppose to clear the level and stay awake

[ocean lance]

^

[errant dome]

true

[ocean lance]

R4c2 moment

[hoary mason]

pull every corruped scan and keep tanks alive

[native sun]

@azure narwhal I think a good analogy to consider is seatbelts.

Seatbelts are very good and an incredibly important safety device. But they do absolutely nothing to impact your safety 99% of the time you're in a vehicle (because you're not in a car crash).

BUT, if you do get in a car crash they are a VERY big deal. So wearing a seat-belt is much much much better than not.

[digital mural]

R7E1 on drugs

[civic wave]

wish i had a seatbelt on for this car crash of a conversation

[frail heart]

wait thats actually big brain analogy

damn

[errant dome]

actually super goated analogy

[upper ginkgo]

idk it's been pretty civil

[frail heart]

yeah

[azure narwhal]

this is EXACTLY what i meant. like bullseye finally somebody knows what i mean. if theres no difference in the level outcome then it doesnt matter what i pick. i understand hammer is better, but i havent been to much levels where it made a difference, thats why i am confused as to why people are saying its such a HUGE deal.
people here are just passively calling me a bad player, i didnt know this community had that many people with such a big ego. i just wanted to understand something about the game, so asked in the questions channel about it and get indirectly insulted as "if you wanna cripple yourself, sure go on",, "you only play A tier levels" etc etc.
thank you for actually explaining to me @native sun ❤️

[hoary mason]

Survivorship bias, people who survived the plane crash can say the planes are perfectly fine to fly

[ocean lance]

yeah it's not bad

[digital mural]

Do you work as a teacher?

[azure narwhal]

no. and especially not with 0 ammo

[frail heart]

What????

No one is calling you bad

You just said it yourself that you just didnt have enough experience

[ocean lance]

ok.

[frail heart]

thats what people were trying to explain

[civic wave]

i dunno what's going on anymore

[frail heart]

but you dont have the experience to understand

[azure narwhal]

nobody did tho

[civic wave]

and yes keksi, i did always know what you meant

[ocean lance]

what

[ocean lance]

Read above

[burnt inlet]

[frail heart]

WHAT?????

okay

[ocean lance]

how many examples have people given you

what the hell

[azure narwhal]

i was asking about the difference in strength and the replies were always "spear bad hammer good" not why hammer is the amount better than spear that it is

[burnt inlet]

chat this is related questions not speedrunning

[digital mural]

I said it at the start of the convo

[patent mulch]

i just got mega bamboozled now

[digital mural]

And Frosty did too

[ocean lance]

nah

ragebait

[frail heart]

People did explain.

[hoary mason]

But we did provide every + and - of both hammer and spear

[civic wave]

I did bring up the fact that "I can clear this with spear" does not constitute an effective way to rate the weapon

[hoary mason]

and provided examples

And then you say

[civic wave]

even just me talking here makes it feel like i'm adding to a dogpile, christ

[hoary mason]

umm actually I haven't had that happen once so spear is good cause I didn't feel minuses

[ocean lance]

[azure narwhal]

i wasnt asking about specific + and - about hammer and spear...
i was asking about why hammer is 100000 x better than spear and not just 5x better or something

[upper ginkgo]

gotta get your exp reward from participation kills

[ocean lance]

assists

[digital mural]

[azure narwhal]

never have i said spear is good in general, i stated multiple times that hammer is basically always better

[frail heart]

bruhbruhbruh

[civic wave]

lost in communication i guess

gg should've used ping anywhere mod to clearly point out the intentions

[upper ginkgo]

gtfo chatter tries to understand the entire landscape of the argument before participating challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)

[azure narwhal]

@hoary mason is the perfect example of telling me they explained it to me and they understood me while not understanding what i mean and talking about something else that i didnt mean

[hoary mason]

Uh huh

[frail heart]

lmao

[ocean lance]

touch grass

[digital mural]

You have grass allergy role

[civic wave]

i hate the gtfo community

get me outta here

where's my jungle

[upper ginkgo]

I'm holding mid

they're pushing top

[civic wave]

fuck idk how to play league

[errant dome]

that doesnt mean he cant touch grass tho

[digital mural]

Spam abilities and pray to god

[burnt inlet]

dont pepega

[civic wave]

i was a casual Heroes of the Storm player, moba baby

[ocean lance]

they're ganking me

[hoary mason]

#gtfo-media message

[hoary horizon]

Play guilty gear strive

[ocean lance]

HELP

[civic wave]

wouldn't that turn me trans?

[burnt inlet]

is that really grass?

[errant dome]

are u getting ganked on in work

[hoary horizon]

Noooooo….

[ocean lance]

dude I'm on a zoom meeting

and this mf

[digital mural]

That's a bush

[ocean lance]

is THE YAPPATRON

like holy shit

[hoary mason]

And what's behind the bush?

[digital mural]

Dirt

[errant dome]

just tune them out

[upper ginkgo]

getting paid to listen to a yapper...

[ocean lance]

truly the peak Italian work experience

[digital mural]

Isn't that what psychologists do?

[upper ginkgo]

yeah ig

[hoary horizon]

What’s that one Japanese guy who gets hired as just someone who walks with you

[native sun]

Yeah, sorry that you got a bit of the rough side of things. There is no small amount of elitism in this community (though we always try to do better on this).

To give some context: You are significantly more likely to encounter "close call" situations where your melee choice will have a significant impact on your win-chance when playing "difficult" levels. E.g. E-tiers etc. Such levels can often feature very many of these moments.

As such, getting used to Spear on "easy" levels (where your melee choice is not going to significantly impact your win-chance) is often seen as a newbie trap. And thus Spear supporters are generally viewed as naive newbies who haven't yet experienced the "difficult" content - or have done a poor job of evaluating their performance in that "difficult" content.

[hoary horizon]

Like he doesn’t speak and people just talk

[native sun]

Yes. University physics and computing.

[digital mural]

Holy moly

No wonder you are pretty good at explaining

[tardy ingot]

Ive read through most of the above messages

Its been explained a ton of times when, where and why hammer is better

Tru explained why it specifically is such a standout.

But take the seatbelt analogy. But now add that instead of a seatbelt vs none. Its a seatbelt vs a razor wire

It wont actively kill you to have it across your shirt, but it certainly wont help and makes moving worse and reacting worse

[azure narwhal]

lets make babies @native sun

[civic wave]

who the fuck just

says that

[ocean lance]

I knew tru was a professor on a chill streamI think

[azure narwhal]

that was supposed to be a compliment apsfjiovase

[ocean lance]

tru was yapping about some python exercise I think

[digital mural]

Omg Skadi

[native sun]

Not actually a professor. "Tutor" here (I think this is called "teacher's assistant" in US)

[ocean lance]

ahhh

[azure narwhal]

i didnt ask for where and why hammer is better. i was questioning why hamemr is better by the amount people claim it to be.

how do i always misspell hammer as hamemr

[frail heart]

[ocean lance]

@frail heart let's mKe babies

fuck spelling error

[tardy ingot]

People who say numbers typically do so as a hyperbole

Theres no mathematically correct number that people use for this

[digital mural]

mKe

[hoary horizon]

Children cringe, and this is coming from a child

[frail heart]

feels quite nit picky

also have fun with the run eva

[civic wave]

which run

[hoary mason]

Yes

[azure narwhal]

yes, and i said that the claims were hyperbolic things to say. i repeated myself over and over trying to get my point across, why are people claiming they understand what i mean and still proceed to be hyperbolic about it? absolutely proofs otherwise

[civic wave]

i swear to god if you speedrunners are doing glitched category runs again

[hoary mason]

[civic wave]

you'll never pleasure a woman by coming too early

[digital mural]

LMAO

[hoary horizon]

There is nothing hyperbolic about gigagayzillion

[civic wave]

actual relationship death%

[azure narwhal]

is there a glitched death by mine run that gets you killed in the elevator

[little pilot]

i dont pull girls, i pull sec doors

[tardy ingot]

Wat

[ocean lance]

most tgb statement ever

[frail heart]

i think you were being hyperbolic about our hyperbolic statements

[hoary horizon]

Don’t seek to pull a partner
Seek to pull the slots lever

[digital mural]

Oh god

[azure narwhal]

what exactly do you mean by that

[frail heart]

we said "spear is quite shit compared to hammer", you said we said "spear is a quintillion times worse than hammer and should never be taken"

you were literally waiting for someone to spell out every word for you to then say that the other people who were trying to explain it have "egos"

We tried to help

we gave examples

and you rebutted every example with "but what if that WASNT the situation"

[ocean lance]

what if duck's Mcdonald delivery didn't have his cok spilled over

[frail heart]

cok?????

ayo

[worthy sandal]

stfu, i was about to type sth

[ocean lance]

what he said in vc

[hoary mason]

The question is how the fuck I get called out by @azure narwhal when last half of my messages from argument is just rephrasing of tru's questions

[ocean lance]

we died laughing

[worthy sandal]

coke

[frail heart]

Yep

[worthy sandal]

u dumbass

[azure narwhal]

i didnt care and ask for specific examples of ups and downs. i wanted to know why the difference between hammer and spear is made out to be the amount it is.

for example if somebody says "spear is 12x worse than hammer"
in this situation what im asking for is why spear is 12 times worse than hammer, why not just twice as bad?

[digital mural]

Thats

That is what we did

That what we told you

[frail heart]

We are not giving you exact numbers

Spear is worse

Like

[ocean lance]

chat how can we give a quantified number

it's just worse idk how much lmao

[frail heart]

Let me calculate the exact percentage that spear is worse than hammer

[digital mural]

69%

[ocean lance]

^

:69:

[azure narwhal]

saying "hammer is better in this situation because of speed" does not tell me why spear is as bad as its made out to be. sure hammer does better, the difference just doesnt seem that big to me. yall are missing the point yet again and thinking you arent its driving me insane

[frail heart]

That is not the only example we gave you

[ocean lance]

keksi what do you want to know

[frail heart]

You are just nit picking

[ocean lance]

ask the specific question

[civic wave]

for what it's worth, at some point you did ask questions to explore specifics on why hammer is better in a given situation #gtfo-related-questions message

[burnt inlet]

speed is also a part of this game cant lie

[digital mural]

We said more than speed

[azure narwhal]

what? this applies to all the examples

[burnt inlet]

like a big part

[digital mural]

But alright

[frail heart]

i actually cant lmao

i try so hard

[digital mural]

Try deez

[hoary mason]

And he did get an answer to them as well

[hoary mason]

Which are still valid

[frail heart]

FACTS

[digital mural]

Silence, Bullpup user

[ocean lance]

damn bullpup's great

[frail heart]

i love reloading!

[azure narwhal]

tru told me that spear doesnt have to be that much worse if its not making a difference in my personal level outcomes, and thats exactly what i was looking for. everybody was claiming spear is always extremely bad compared to hammer and dont ever use spear unless you want to "cripple" yourself with such a "horrible" weapon pick, but if the outcome is the same then the difference cant be that bad.

[ocean lance]

your playstyle

[hoary mason]

So you started an argument with a resolution in mind already?

[ocean lance]

is suited to spear

[frail heart]

So you ignored basically half of what people said

[hoary mason]

So you just started shit to start shit?>

[ocean lance]

which is inherently worse

cause you are playing speae

[hoary mason]

And then call out people for being elitist

[ocean lance]

BUT THATS FINE

[tropic root]

[ocean lance]

YOU CNA PLAY THAT WAY

[tardy ingot]

It was mostly to explain that we dont actually mean „spear is 100000x worse than hammer“

Its just a hyperbole for it being significantly worse

[hoary mason]

And struning tru in to confirm that in his message

[civic wave]

i

[hoary mason]

!?>?!?!?!?!

!?!?!?!

[ocean lance]

you don't notice the differences cause you're playing spear that's all

[frail heart]

Yeah

And they took it literally FOR SOME REASON

And then we are the bad guys

[patent mulch]

i wouldn't bring a spear in a D or E mission but i would be fine bringing it to something else (but im addicted to knife)

[digital mural]

Playing that way and getting the level completed doesn't mean spear is as good or near as good as hammer

[civic wave]

my entire getting fucked in the v by automod saga was about saying that you can get by with spear, but that shouldn't be taken as proof that spear is strong

[tropic root]

all these pink name elitists in chat smh

[ocean lance]

keksi you are crippling yourself btw, but you can totally clear levels thst way

crippling yourself doesn't mean that you can't clear

You're at best losing more time on a level

[frail heart]

Yep and i literally said that like 5 times

[ocean lance]

and that's fine

[azure narwhal]

my thought process was,, "if the outcome of the level is often the same, then how come people are saying its soo soo soo much worse. i guess ill ask in the gtfo questions channel"
i though the difference isnt big, yes. but since i wasnt sure i wanted to ask because people say otherwise. i wanted to understand, and not "talk shit" for fun?

[digital mural]

Goat just said it

[ocean lance]

^

[azure narwhal]

you said yourself that yall were giving me examples, which i wasnt asking for

[hoary mason]

[ocean lance]

how are we meant to tell you

how it's better

without examples

[frail heart]

TRU LITERALLY GAVE YOU EXAMPLES AND YOU PRAISED HIM AS A HOLY GOD

LIKE WHAT

[ocean lance]

I don't know

[patent mulch]

examples serve to get a point across tbh

[hoary mason]

#gtfo-related-questions message

[ocean lance]

^

[hoary mason]

This, thank you

[zealous canopy]

shrimp

[ocean lance]

like I can tell you how I can tap occy with hammer a shooter

and spear can't

[digital mural]

Isn't examples the way to explain something

[ocean lance]

but that's an example

[frail heart]

How tf are you going to explain well that hammer is better without examples

[digital mural]

💀

[hoary mason]

I thought it was implied that examples help getting point across easier

[ocean lance]

how else can I get my point across

[hoary mason]

guess not

[patent mulch]

carry it to them

[tropic root]

go rub your role somewhere else >:C

[hoary mason]

Mathematically - it doesn't matter which melee you pick
Do you value your time tho?

[frail heart]

you are about to be one

[hoary mason]

Not like you don't age

[ocean lance]

you wanted to know how much hammer is better, we're giving you examples, idk what else to do

[zealous canopy]

You are about to be a shrimp too shh

[little pilot]

get shrimped

[civic wave]

i'm done here, gonna go waste away doing something else

[frail heart]

like my brain is actually fried

[hoary horizon]

It’s as shrimple as that

[digital mural]

Eat it

[tropic root]

I just want my role q.q I only ask for such shrimple things in life

[ocean lance]

idk I'm stuck in this zoom meeting for like two more hours

[civic wave]

burst pistol short rifle is old news, the assault rifle sniper rifle with 4x biotracker clear is where it's at

[frail heart]

you are going to be a fish soon

[ocean lance]

keep the fuel going in the discussion

[hoary mason]

watch a movie

[ocean lance]

not a bad idea

[hoary horizon]

Plays peaks of yore

It’s simply peak

[worthy sandal]

Hello team, im a spear user, i can solo a giant without getting hit, notice the word, SOLO, i dont think other weapon can do this, so those ppl who told me to use hammer or knife, just embrace the fact, SPEAR IS JUST BETTER, can hammer hit enemy from far away? i dont think so, can knife one shot enemy with 60% charge? nah uh, dont tell me theres a melee weapon called bat, unless ur batman then DONT TELL ME TO USE BAT!!!
Dont tell me about the downside of sth like u cant sprint with spear while charging, ur stamina is fcked up all the time, THATS JUST THE PROOF UR NOT A GOOD ENOUGH PLAYER!!! I can solo 3 enemy and dont wake the room up, all the hammer user only the know about charging and sprinting everywhere like brainless monkey, gtfo is a game about PRECISE and SKILLFULL GAMEPLAY!!! and spear is the best weapon that can do this job PERFECTLY!!! so dont u these hammer user argue my point, the fact is that when ur arguing with me, u show ur PATHETIC KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THIS GAME ( i have almost 100 hrs gameplay, im good at this game), so pls stop the argument which is wasting my time, if u dont use spear, ur just not as good as me

[patent mulch]

peaks of yore mom

[ocean lance]

duck shutup

[digital mural]

I ain't reading that

[little pilot]

i understand your point. but its not quite what i mean. if everybody were to follow this thought process tho then nobody would play spear. because as mentioned a few times now, spear IS worse than hammer in BASICALLY every situation. the thing that i am argueing about and i just cant wrap my head around is the DIFFERENCE of strength people are saying that lies between spear and hammer. i know that if spear can do it, hammer can do it better. but that doesnt mean that spear is 8 gigagayzillion times worse than hammer.
yes: why would you pick spear instead of hammer? if you are playing optimal then NEVER. spear just doesnt have its own purpose, but hammer isnt THAT MUCH better than spear.

yes,, you could argue hammer IS that much better than spear because its basically always better,, but this doesnt mean that spear is a HORRIBLE pick for a level. yes for some levels i can imagine it is nearly impossible to get through certain situations with the spear and hammer can do it. but just dont play spear in THOSE LEVELS,,, if its playable in other levels then it cannot be HORRIBLE.
on a scale of how good a weapon would be and lets say hammer is 100/100 i would put spear on 80/100.
that would mean sear should never be played cuz hammer is better but if you just like spear more for whatever reason then most of the time you can still play it. i just cant fathom how people can say hammer is gigazillion times better than spear.

[ocean lance]

wtf.

[burnt inlet]

all due respect dont think they said that

[ocean lance]

I'm not reading that

[burnt inlet]

anyways guys can we not dogpile like crazy

[frail heart]

hello team, im a spear user, i can solo a giant without getting hit, notice the word, SOLO, i dont think other weapon can do this, so those ppl who told me to use hammer or knife, just embrace the fact, SPEAR IS JUST BETTER, can hammer hit enemy from far away? i dont think so, can knife one shot enemy with 60% charge? nah uh, dont tell me theres a melee weapon called bat, unless ur batman then DONT TELL ME TO USE BAT!!!
dont tell me about the downside of sth like u cant sprint with spear while charging, ur stamina is fcked up all the time, THATS JUST THE PROOF UR NOT A GOOD ENOUGH PLAYER!!! i can solo 3 enemy and dont wake the room up, all the hammer user only the know about charging and sprinting everywhere like brainless monkey, gtfo is a game about PRECISE and SKILLFULL GAMEPLAY!!! and spear is the best weapon that can do this job PERFECTLY!!! so dont u these hammer user argue my point, the fact is that when ur arguing with me, u show ur PATHETIC KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THIS GAME ( i have almost 100 hrs gameplay, im good at this game), so pls stop the argument which is wasting my time, if u dont use spear, ur just not as good as me

[burnt inlet]

it is related questions so no need to be on this level lol

[digital mural]

Guys now this is just bullying

[burnt inlet]

^

[frail heart]

you werent here for this moth

[burnt inlet]

i was lurking

[civic wave]

first noby and then keksi, gtfo mob is out for blood (for people whose names end in an -ee syllable), who's next in this madness? can we go after frosty next

[digital mural]

Moth was since the start of the convo

[worthy sandal]

i feel like i need to add more stuff for the essay

[digital mural]

Then he went to lurk

💀

[frail heart]

damn

[patent mulch]

they haven't typed a thing for like 30 messages and we are still going on

[frail heart]

anyway im not trying to bully

[worthy sandal]

i want this to be copypasta and paste when its needed

[hoary horizon]

I’m barely safe

[civic wave]

i would've been endangered last year

[ocean lance]

scary thought

[azure narwhal]

not the examples in this case. i already knew that hammer is faster than spear, i just didnt know how much the DIFFERENCE was.
how do i explain?
my thoughts: "hammer IS better than spear , hammer is better in alot of situations (e.g. your examples) than spear, but i want to know why the difference is as big as it is claimed to be. it seems like hammer is better than spear but not by much, so im gonna ask in the channel why is it that much more."
so in my thoughts i already knew most of the situations that hammer is better in than spear. but i wanted to know how that makes such a gigantic difference. i didnt want any examples of those because i already knew them or they just didnt explain what i was asking for

[ocean lance]

I think

[tardy ingot]

People have stated multiple of these things

Hammer staggers better
Kills better (higher base dmg which leads to a better breakpoint)
Has far better mobility and is easier to get hits with

Hammer in a significant amount of situations will have a noticeable advantage over spear. Some of those likely being able to decide whether you wipe or not. (And even if something doesnt lead to a wipe or not directly, you may lose hp or ammo which can snowball later down the line

[frail heart]

I gave you these examples

I can send links to them if you want

[hoary horizon]

Y’know what I should probably start working on my Victorian era inspired costume instead of reading this

[native sun]

Team. We don't need to dog pile, question is already answered, time to move on.

[patent mulch]

it doesn't matter for stuff up to like C tiers

[digital mural]

Oh?

[tropic root]

COME PLAY VALHIEM WITH ME

[ocean lance]

okok

[hoary mason]

I still have issue being called out by my name when
I wasn't trying to be condescending
I was providing valid points and examples to explain my point
I wasn't being elitist about it (unless tru has different opinion on it)
And I wasn't trying to ego boost cause there's nothing to be had from that argument

Just because person started argument with a specific resolution already in mind.

[tiny wyvern]

the hell happened this time

[patent mulch]

chaos

[hoary horizon]

Just a smol project for school

[frail heart]

Feels a bit insulting to try and help, then get called out for having an ego. But i will move on

[ocean lance]

moving on

[digital mural]

Good luck 🙏

[hoary horizon]

Ty

[worthy sandal]

moving on to bat or hammer, i got u

[ocean lance]

guys why do my lobbies hate when I pick sniper

[azure narwhal]

yes those points were clearing things up for me. you are right i probably didnt give those specific mentions enough credits thats mb. but to me it still didnt feel like thats a huge deal, thats why the discussion went on. i wanted to understand it better.

[ocean lance]

instead of scattergun

[worthy sandal]

team is bat better or hammer

[ocean lance]

keksi I think you undervalued how many times those examples happen in the average gtfo chatter experience of levels

[native sun]

Sniper >>> HEL Rifle specifically for R5E1 speedruns. 1000 word essay due tomorrow, you may begin

[tardy ingot]

Keksi

People have cleared the hardest level in the game with the most dogshit loadout possible

By what you have said, this loadout shouldnt be labeled dogshit, because it can still clear

[digital mural]

If you want to bully enemies? Get bat and spam click

[ocean lance]

this guy stinks

[tiny wyvern]

short rifle burst pistol

[azure narwhal]

try not to make fun of a newbie asking something in a questions-channel (difficulty: impossible)

[tiny wyvern]

With spear

[frail heart]

Can I be against the argument

[ocean lance]

same

[civic wave]

hel rifle sucks, pub gun, sniper hits sick montage and goes viral on youtube

waffle and filler for the next 900 words

[tiny wyvern]

I think was it jish that walked a newbie through it with a deck like that, bots and all

[ocean lance]

zed will 100% go for sniper

[patent mulch]

just bring spear in a truly hard mission and you'll get it ok from what i've seen you haven't progressed a lot yet and in so doing haven't experienced where it matters a lot more

[worthy sandal]

i bet u dont like sniper cause u cant aim the head, improve ur gameplay ig

[ocean lance]

If he met a girl named sniper he'd cream his pants instantly

[frail heart]

move on :)

[tiny wyvern]

Yeah most of the melees are fine even the spear
It can work if you put in the effort

[azure narwhal]

yes. i think everything can be viable. at least in terms of melee, but i dont know alot about guns so i am not gonna argue about them

[little pilot]

from what i have seen your question got answered yesterday by me, today by tru. And then dropped that beauty

[burnt inlet]

yall did take it a bit far cant lie

[ocean lance]

moth shush

[burnt inlet]

am i wrong?

[frail heart]

BROTHER PLEASE

I WAS TRYING TO HELPP

AND GOT CALLED OUT FOR HAVING AN EGO

[ocean lance]

moving on means moving on

[azure narwhal]

insults
"why am i getting insulted?"
"move on :)"

[ocean lance]

like thst sit lmao

[frail heart]

LIKE WHAT THE FUCK AM I MEANT TO DO

Should i just say "skill issue get better pub"?

It might do more

[burnt inlet]

^trying to help

[frail heart]

LIKE

IDK

[little pilot]

FROSTY GO TO VALHEIM

[ocean lance]

shutup pub

[frail heart]

Bro please

[little pilot]

I HEARD THE DESPERATION IN HAFUMI'S VOICE

[frail heart]

That was not targeted

[burnt inlet]

no need to make copypastas lol

[zealous canopy]

Silence shrimp

[frail heart]

Holyy fuck

[hoary mason]

smh my head can't believe pink name is being elitist in this community

[ocean lance]

he did.

[frail heart]

i actually cant

[worthy sandal]

@frail heart big ego

[ocean lance]

@worthy sandal big cok

[frail heart]

Please read every single other one of my messages

where i try to help

[worthy sandal]

asian always win

[frail heart]

for like 20 minutes

[zealous canopy]

Bro

[burnt inlet]

yea ik saw those

[ocean lance]

Asians stay winning

[digital mural]

Fuck that word is automodded

[ocean lance]

go home Australian

[zealous canopy]

Frosty literally stood afk in a run of ours while we were testing

To type responses out

[little pilot]

frosty

[frail heart]

Yeah

[little pilot]

your literal

gf

is begging u

stop living in #gtfo-related-questions

[frail heart]

Na im fucking pissed man

[burnt inlet]

i just think THAT copypasta was too far

[worthy sandal]

wheres the link that he called ppl big ego

[ocean lance]

AngryFrosty

[frail heart]

I DIDNT MAKE THAT

[worthy sandal]

i want to start the drama from beginning

[frail heart]

I RESPONDED TO THE GUY

[prime musk]

🍿