No, it just makes them go throb.
#gtfo-related-questions
hardy grotto
Outside their detection range they won’t do anything, they sometimes throb once if you leave their detection range while walking or crouch walking but it doesn’t mean anything as far as I’m aware
torpid token
the detection radius is 13m
lyric mist
ok a few things i'm testing so far: excluding "loud" actions like sprinting, jumping, shooting, enemies don't react at all to sounds outside their detection range, in any state
when glowing it only takes 1 sound to get them to pulse
also crouching doesn't make a sound but standing up does
also they completely ignore crouch walk when sleeping unless VERY close
but when glowing crouch walk counts as 1 "sound" and makes them pulse
dry pumice
Yes.
lyric mist
i haven't tested what sets them off from pulsing yet because... yeah
dry pumice
Everything, really.
In my experience it works on some kind of "strike" system.
3 strikes - its violence time.
You can safely annoy them up to 2 times.
I wouldn't advise trying past that.
lyric mist
also it seems like line of sight blocks soft sounds like walking or crouching
dry pumice
Yes. Not other sleepers or players though.
Also catwalks with holes do not block sound either.
Not fully anyway...
tardy ingot
the detection radius is 13m
wat
lyric mist
seems like 2 strikes to wake up from pulsing
tardy ingot
jus to clarify, detection range for walking/running (or crouching if glowing) is 8 meters
dry pumice
Really? I swear it should be 3. I'll test myself later.
tardy ingot
???
tardy ingot
Really? I swear it should be 3. I'll test myself later.
read again
dry pumice
Read what.
lyric mist
it is 3 if you count from fully asleep
jagged shore
eva artek was talking to red
dry pumice
Then why is she quoting me.
jagged shore
?????????
hardy grotto
I’m so confused
dry pumice
Reset conversation, I'm not putting this train back on track.
lyric mist
Really? I swear it should be 3. I'll test myself later.
no you're right, it is 3
dry pumice
Ohhhh I get it.
Eva started the derail
Was reffering to 3 strikes to wake up, no 3 meters.
I completely ignored this one #gtfo-related-questions message
The funniest part: no one noticed Pachi pointing out the error.
civic wave
yeah, everyone hates me and ignores me
or that's what I try gaslight everything into believing
lusty bramble
Did someone say something?
hardy grotto
what did i just hear?
lyric mist
@dry pumice i don't know if you knew this, but i found something pretty cool. crouching makes a "walk" sound when getting up but a "crouch" sound when crouching down
that means that crouching down can't be heard if they're sleeping, and getting up from crouch will always count as walking a small step
lusty bramble
That isn't how thay works
lyric mist
i'm literally testing it right now
lusty bramble
@dry pumice I also found something cool. If you swap weapons after shooting they make no noise but if you shoot it makes a noise.
Anyone else get this?
lusty bramble
Thanks man
lusty bramble
@dry pumice just wanted to cue you in to my cooking. I just found a strategy where if you lower the game volume, your footsteps are quieter. Do you think that if we lower it enough the sleepers can't hear us?
dry pumice
Stop pinging me with your nonsense, if you would.
lyric mist
my message wasn't nonsense
lyric mist
i was wondering why crouching sometimes woke them up when syncronizing them
lyric mist
seems interesting, i'll probably write a guide on it when i'm done
lyric mist
maybe a yt video
dry pumice
Eh, sure. Just confirm your findings with locals to avoid misinformation.
lyric mist
i can edit a bit
lyric mist
On crouching?
stealth in general
like i have a theory they have a "sleep" meter that gets filled in different ways by different sounds
and when it reaches a certain amount they wake up
dry pumice
Could be.
lyric mist
i'm trying to find out what various actions do, by doing them in different amounts
and in different orders
science bitch
lusty bramble
I would love to see a video on this sleep meter
We need more gtfo content creators
sturdy glen
cant read anything around here anymore that doesnt sound like a shitpost
mind is gone
lyric mist
yup, the topic seems very interesting and i haven't seen anyone covering it... ever
so might just do it myself
dry pumice
Monster go throb-throb = stop annoying monster. That's about it. The rest Is just experience butter.
lyric mist
yeah sure, but going in depth could reveal some hidden tech that hasn't been found yet
dry pumice
These people probably dug straight into the code like 10 times already.
Even if there is any new tech to be found - its probably impractical.
The forced long rage wake up is about as far as it gets.
lyric mist
These people probably dug straight into the code like 10 times already.
who are they? and how do i read their stuff?
dry pumice
Rayalot, Jish, Tru...
They recently uncovered a hilarious bug that is basically never experienced, minus one level where it was happening often enough to investigate.
lyric mist
please stop pinging people
dry pumice
Ha! I'm on phone.
olive robin
How far April is from June?...
months
dry pumice
Is this "gaslight Arek day" or what? You people are making me crazy.
lusty bramble
Arek?
olive robin
Is this "gaslight Arek day" or what? You people are making me crazy.
no its true
april is months away from june
astral pollen
can you cfoam a tank by foaming the floor enough beforehand?
ocean spindle
yes but its not, useful to even foam the tank in the first place
cause it lasts very little frozen
astral pollen
if i have 150% cfoam portion tho?
hazy oak
Do seafoam mines have enough to freeze him reliably? I remember that being a strong counter back in like OG R5.
ocean spindle
foam mines will freeze any enemy they touch except if the enemy cannot be frozen no matter what
ocean spindle
if i have 150% cfoam portion tho?
i mean, then yeah sure i guess u can do it if u want
ocean spindle
yeah
astral pollen
i mean, then yeah sure i guess u can do it if u want
how much would it take ~
do you have an idea?
ocean spindle
no idea sorry
past mesa
who are they? and how do i read their stuff?
Tru documents most of the stuff on the wiki
what excalty are you trying to find about about stealth stuff red?
lyric mist
Mostly I'm looking for the exact condition(s) that causes sleepers to wake up
past mesa
Mostly I'm looking for the exact condition(s) that causes sleepers to wake up
it is a function in the mono build
do you know how to read the code? i can send you the zip
lyric mist
do you know how to read the code? i can send you the zip
Yeah that would be greatly helpful
past mesa
Mostly I'm looking for the exact condition(s) that causes sleepers to wake up
a mix of los and flag checks i forget the excat one we did this when i got fucking annoyed by a mom waking up when it shouldnt have
lyric mist
do you know how to read the code? i can send you the zip
You actually have the source code?
past mesa
check dms
sharp sundial
Anyone knows about the flickering bug that occurs when your flashlight is turned off?
I have a video example of it happening to me earlier in a post I made
But it looks like it's such an obsucre bug that nobody knows about
ashen frigate
This is due to some of the spotlights, not present in all expeditions. It has been brought to the devs attention, but we will add this report from R1A1 to the list, thank you. (or should I say "merci")
minor fractal
like i have a theory they have a "sleep" meter that gets filled in different way...
I don't think you'd be able to deduce the mechanics that way tbh.
You could probably come up w/ good rules to follow as a player, which is arguably more important, but the mechanics themselves are a bit esoteric.
The closest thing to a sleep meter is a distance meter.
minor fractal
If they see you move too far in the pulse state, they will wake.
past mesa
let them cook tbh
lyric mist
I don't think you'd be able to deduce the mechanics that way tbh.
yeah, fair enough
past mesa
move as much as you want and blame ping when they wake up
host silent shoot
to blame people for waking up sleepers
jagged shore
honestly i could hella see a "sleep meter" existing
cause i've, in the past, managed to get some sleepers to yawn like 3 or 4 times in a row i think
not certain on the mechanics of it though since, yes, they are kinda weird
toxic frigate
How do I join lobbys?
past mesa
honestly i could hella see a "sleep meter" existing
cause i've, in the past, man...
it is you passing two uninterrupted checks.
i think
but there is a lot there is a "sleep meter"(heat) for just regular hibernation
narrow niche
How do I join lobbys?
if you have a code it should show up on the left side of your hud
a code copied to clipboard
toxic frigate
if you have a code it should show up on the left side of your hud
o ic ty
olive robin
like i have a theory they have a "sleep" meter that gets filled in different way...
I'm pretty sure it's just that they have a cool down period before they can progress alert phases while ur walking around, unless you sprint or touch them etc
Like they won't go from sleeping to glowing to spasming in an instant, they do it with a second or two delay between each phase
past mesa
i am tilted
hidden ridge
i was wondering why crouching sometimes woke them up when syncronizing them
Because crouching is actually movement
At least I think so
turbid horizon
i am tilted
Hi tilted
hidden ridge
Get on a railing, stand still, just press C continuously and you'll eventually fall from it
past mesa
STOP PLS
hidden ridge
?
past mesa
it isnt about movement it is about checks
if you hit a number of uninterrupted checks they progress
los sounds that you make are inculded
if you make a sound that is louder than your last check sound they progressive
this is from what i remeber
85% at miss info
hidden ridge
Crouching then probably triggers the same check as taking a step?
past mesa
probs
hidden ridge
Cause I didn't try that again but I'm pretty sure that it moves you
past mesa
if you crouch then fall you can see the behavior's
and you can see the uninterrupted check base on grating
you will never****(assumeing the grating doesnt have a massive middle hole in which you can keep los to the middle*(slightly to the right) of the sleeper) wake something up through grating
it goes one like this
for a while
whole grove
If anyone wants to see the extent of enemy behaviours, watch those who play solo. Its like trying to explain how to play basketball when its better to be shown and practiced.
civic wave
you will never****(assumeing the grating doesnt have a massive middle hole in wh...
I accidentally did this in zone 513 👍 (or was it my flashlight)
idk probably a mix, but it went bad
timber warren
Kinda like the big dmr/snipers... but unsure what other secondary i should use
Any suggestions? (Please @me)
ocean spindle
Any suggestions? (Please @me)
for dmr u could use somethin more for stranglers that come close like maybs a combat shottie or a normal shottie
tho if u want only precision weapons, maybs somethin ike sniper and hel revo on main with also requires headshots, or maybs rifle
timber warren
Thanks for the suggestions c:
ocean spindle
Thanks for the suggestions c:
is oki, experimentin with guns is also nice so maybs u end up likin some other combo like dmr heavy assault rifle or precision rifle pistol n stuff so always b sure to just have fun tryin weapons
minor fractal
Kinda like the big dmr/snipers... but unsure what other secondary i should use
PR and HEL Rifle prolly
Plenty of wave clear in both, but in different ways.
timber warren
Liked the charge up one
Really cool
For none special weapons i kinda tried the 2 auto pistols
1 seems okay
torpid token
jus to clarify, detection range for walking/running (or crouching if glowing) is...
not this, i mean when killed a sleeper, another sleeper wake up detective range.
It is indeed 8m for some player behavior
soft crater
For none special weapons i kinda tried the 2 auto pistols
1 is machine pistol.
1 is hel auto pistol.
Machine pistol is essentially a faster shooting close range smg.
Hel Auto pistol does less damage however has penetration/5x stagger
(The last time they did balance changes made to guns made Machine pistol shoot faster and have a bit more damage but it lost damage range in place of that.)
olive robin
not this, i mean when killed a sleeper, another sleeper wake up detective range.
Enemies have a random alert feature where if you kill an enemy, there's a good chance the closest enemy in 15 meter radius with line of sight will wake up but only if they're glowing
This means if there's two enemies with los to eachother (360 no obstructions) and one is glowing, killing the other one is likely to wake it up
Solution: don't kill a dude if there's another one glowing in a 15 m radius with no way for you to quickly melee them
stiff kraken
Hey! This game has been tickling my interest for almost a year now, I never really jumped into it since I dont really have friends that play the game and im always scated to solo queue in games like this. With the recent sale though, im looking to jump in, my question is: how accesible would the game be for a new player? gtfo has about 600 active players so im expecting most people who play are experienced which might make it more difficult to learn the ropes, what do you think?
craggy pier
In short it's a tough game but it gets much easier with knowledge and experience
The mechanics of this game aren't complicated or difficult to learn
Learn how to stealth, learn how to use terminals, that's about it
the rest is being good with a gun
stiff kraken
I like a good challenge, but its better with players who are up for it haha, one thing that worried me is the fact that ive seen people mention that due to most players being experienced, they have a tendency to be able to complete missions faster, i hope it wont mean that ill constantly get carried and take much longer to actually learn
dry pumice
Hey! This game has been tickling my interest for almost a year now, I never real...
That's pretty much what will happen, yeah.
The game eventually gets pretty brutal. All the new players dissappear eventually, save for few dedicated ones.
Bots exist, but they are subpar and placeholders for real people. Some missions are virtually unbeatable without a proper squad.
You'll probably learn majority of basic game mechanics by the time you finish rundown 2. After that it's just more of the same at an ever increasing difficulty.
Worse case scenario - you just roll the dice in local LFG channels and eventually someone will carry you through, one way or another.
craggy pier
you can ask to not be carried, people will understand and go slow
infact it is against the law to carry people who matchmake in LFG-beginners
stiff kraken
I see, ill jump in and see then, if anything ill crawl back to #lfg-beginners xD cant guarantee my sanity will be intact when that happens tho
craggy pier
good luck
also may i recommend
don't spoil the game for yourself by going on the wiki and consoooming the content there about enemies or levels
there are fun surprises
stiff kraken
oh yeah i definitely want to discover stuff on my own
also, hows the game in terms of content and replayability?
finite plover
71 maps currently. More will come.
craggy pier
content: lots
replayability: its ok
dry pumice
Lots of content, replayability next to zero.
finite plover
Replayability is high but mostly cos you will die and have to replay 🤣
craggy pier
however
lots of missions have basically the exact same gameplay loop
and they share objectives
dry pumice
Basically every mission is following an individual script. Everything is the same, minus occasional ammopack moving from locker to locker and sleeping monsters moving from one room to another.
Once you've beaten it - that's it. There is no objective reason to go back, unless you just really enjoy playing for the sake of playing.
tardy ingot
Replayability is higher if you further how you play
Going from learning/clearing only to challenge runs, meme runs and speedruns
dry pumice
Yeaaaah, but every game has that so... Not what people reffer to as "replayability", usually.
craggy pier
honestly this game is fun just to play
there is no progression anyway
nothing to grind at apart from your skills
tardy ingot
Also idk why people consider
Getting something = replayability
Replayability is different ways to play/experience smth (or if the experience is so good its worth to redo)
hardy grotto
I find replayability in the game simply from just getting better at it
pushing the limits of what can be done
stiff kraken
there is no progression anyway
thats slightly dissapointing but mkes sense
tardy ingot
Is cookie clicker replayable because it gives you stuff to work towards?
Is mario odyssey not replayable because theres no unlocks?
craggy pier
thats slightly dissapointing but mkes sense
there are cosmetics
stiff kraken
71 maps tho 
stiff kraken
there are cosmetics
ooo i like the sound of that
dry pumice
It's an industry standard. Getting secret / true endings, activating hidden NG+ mechanics....
Sure, I can replay R1C1 with two shotguns, but like... Why. Bleurgh.
craggy pier
71 maps tho <:firFear:785676580760322059>
and side objectives in many of them
takes a while to clear the whole game
hardy grotto
Artek why do you use the worst examples
tardy ingot
Gotta consider that everything is already unlocked
Its your skill that makes you clear levels, not a stronger gun you unlocked
hardy grotto
who made you this way
craggy pier
Gotta consider that everything is already unlocked
Its your skill that makes yo...
the true progression
neon gust
just be a normal person and replay the fun missions in a fun a wacky way to further develop your skill like everyone else
liek damn
stiff kraken
Gotta consider that everything is already unlocked
Its your skill that makes yo...
mhm, sure fits the game
dry pumice
71 maps tho <:firFear:785676580760322059>
This is honestly all you need. This game doesn't need replayability - with average expedition clear time of 40-50 minutes (and thats not counting game overs) - you'll be here for a while.
neon gust
it dont gotta be "specific boring thing"
hardy grotto
play r4c2 with beep and try not to rage quit
stiff kraken
This is honestly all you need. This game doesn't need replayability - with avera...
woah thats longer than i expected
neon gust
play r4c2 with beep and try not to rage quit
you mean creep?
hardy grotto
LMFAO
dry pumice
Yeah. This game is like a job sometimes.
hardy grotto
creeperduds
dry pumice
Some levels give me genuine exhaustion.
hardy grotto
tbh I saw it too
hidden ridge
You could argue that replayability in this game's case might come from failing an expedition and repeating it
hardy grotto
I just didn’t comment cause I didn’t know who it was
neon gust
tbh I saw it too
yeah but you dont know shit and he's been doing it for a long time
hidden ridge
There's shit you ain't gonna pass in 1 try if you dont get carried or dont know what and how to do
craggy pier
this game has replayability because there's so many missions that you will inevitably forget some of them
tardy ingot
You could argue that replayability in this game's case might come from failing a...
Thats not replayability
Thats failing and progress
neon gust
and i told him and he didnt
tardy ingot
this game has replayability because there's so many missions that you will inevi...
No thats just artek
:^ )
hardy grotto
Sounds like you should take it up with him blackdragon
tardy ingot
just kidding obviously
hardy grotto
Instead of crying about it in a public channel
hidden ridge
Thats not replayability
Thats failing and progress
Perhaps
tardy ingot
people forget stuff
stiff kraken
this game has replayability because there's so many missions that you will inevi...
how different are the levels in terms of level design? similar or completely differing
craggy pier
how different are the levels in terms of level design? similar or completely dif...
similar
dry pumice
Case by case.
hidden ridge
To be fair when a guy asked me why I replayed levels I already finished I really didnt have an answer
Because I enjoy doing them?
tardy ingot
how different are the levels in terms of level design? similar or completely dif...
depends on which tier
Missions all do a similar thing
Go to a place and do the thing
dry pumice
But mostly similar with extra shit thrown in.
stiff kraken
To be fair when a guy asked me why I replayed levels I already finished I really...
This is my life now.
hardy grotto
Ok black dragon
tardy ingot
Because I enjoy doing them?
This is actual replayability
people just think of it as „unlock xy“
hardy grotto
you don’t have to take ur frustration out on me I had literally nothing to do with this
dry pumice
There is a mission out there that has one of the older missions as a side objective.
hardy grotto
grow up LOL
hidden ridge
This is actual replayability
It is but not for a materialistical-ish reason?
neon gust
grow up LOL
cry about it
hidden ridge
I certanly dont give a shit about "improving my skills further" or to unlock shit
I just find it amusing to pass time
stiff kraken
i shall not sleep until i unlock all cosmetics
craggy pier
how can i enjoy a game if i do not push myself to the breaking point and obsess over incredibly difficult challenges over hudreds of hours until i burn out
are you crazy
stiff kraken
Yes.
craggy pier
please help this is a problem
hidden ridge
how can i enjoy a game if i do not push myself to the breaking point and obsess ...
From my PoV, I'd understand that as far as competitive games go
stiff kraken
*please help this is a problem*
need someone to talk to bro?
hidden ridge
Like obsessing over aiming better in Apex/CSGO you have it
civic wave
i shall not sleep until i unlock all cosmetics
You will not be able to unlock every cosmetic that has ever existed
craggy pier
pachi no
civic wave
But good luck clearing every level in decent time
craggy pier
why did you inform them
stiff kraken
You will not be able to unlock every cosmetic that has ever existed
NOOOOOOOOO
craggy pier
you werent supposed to
tardy ingot
i shall not sleep until i unlock all cosmetics
Uh yea
stiff kraken
refunds game
tardy ingot
about that
stiff kraken
LMAO
tardy ingot
just beating all current missions in a row will take a minimum of 50 hours if hard carried by vets
dry pumice
There is a chance devs will do something about. I fucking hope they do...
craggy pier
so yeah how this works is:
Each level clear = +1 cosmetic
Each rundown clear = +1 cosmetic
There are more cosmetics than levels + rundowns
thankfully i have big drip
i got lucky
stiff kraken
so yeah how this works is:
Each level clear = +1 cosmetic
Each rundown clear = +...
so some cosmetics i simply cannot get in any way?
hidden ridge
i shall not sleep until i unlock all cosmetics
Sleep?
craggy pier
so some cosmetics i simply cannot get in any way?
the rewards are random
stiff kraken
the rewards are random
ah damn
craggy pier
you'll randomly not receive some of em
tardy ingot
theres some you cant get because they were limited time
dry pumice
I have copypaste at home. I'm not at home.
TLDR
85+ random drops (not counting guaranteed specified unlocks).
Only 71 missions.
RIP.
stiff kraken
theres some you cant get because they were limited time
yeah that makes sense
i shall never sleep then
craggy pier
to be honest
stiff kraken
unfortunate
craggy pier
different colored cosmetics of the same exact shape are a crime
hidden ridge
Sleep is nice
stiff kraken
different colored cosmetics of the same exact shape are a crime
they are.
craggy pier
give me another cosmetic why are you giving me a differently colored construction helmet
hidden ridge
different colored cosmetics of the same exact shape are a crime
So a good bunch of them
stiff kraken
Sleep is nice
expected from sleepo beepo, the goer to bed
i really like the artistic style of the game so im expecting good cosmetics >:(
dry pumice
that's what palletes are for
Palletes don't apply to helmets, and camo is an interesting "feature".
hidden ridge
Palletes don't apply to helmets, and camo is an interesting "feature".
well one helmet is an exception
r3's completion one
hidden ridge
But that's nitpicking
hidden ridge
Wtf was the R3 helmet...
hoodie
dry pumice
Ohhhh, that one. The scout.
hidden ridge
?
craggy pier
ok i have 6 helmets that have colored bits
hidden ridge
🤔 
dry pumice
The only helmet that goes well with recon set (the one with a shoulder guard on the right arm)
craggy pier
hoodie, hackett's hoodie, piranha, scorpion, typhoon
fierce walrus
sleepo you are absolutely right about reverse ulf
soft crater
that's what palletes are for
Color palettes don't even affect masks themselves. Only the clothing/mesh around the head is
craggy pier
no no no
soft crater
The actual face parts at least.
soft crater
That's not the mask itself elbow
I clearly said it as well.
But you aren't wrong that it is a crime
soft crater
(Hacketts mask and Darkeye mammoth actual masks have different color schemes l)
craggy pier
yeah but those dont change either
soft crater
(Hacketts mask and Darkeye mammoth actual masks have different color schemes l)
Well. I guess not really. Pineapple under the Hood is noticeable
craggy pier
i hope they dont stink
they obviously dont wash any of their gear
gasp
what if the sleepers can pinpoint us because of our immensely powerful stench
and not because they can see with echolocation
we wouldnt know because we're wearing gas masks
dry pumice
I'm 99% certain facility smells like shit anyway, so it doesn't matter.
stiff kraken
maybe thats why youre wearing gas masks in the first place
dry pumice
Too many rotting corpses.
uneven gulchBOT
||This is my bucket. There are many like it, but this one is mine.||
||My bucket is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.||
||My bucket, without me, is useless. Without my bucket, I am useless. I must use my bucket true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will …||
||My bucket and myself know that what counts in this war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit….||
||My bucket is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strength, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel. I will ever guard it against the ravages of weather and damage as I will ever guard my legs, my arms, my eyes and my heart against damage. I will keep my bucket clean and ready. We will become part of each other. We will ….||
||Before God, I swear this creed. My bucket and myself are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of my life.||
||So be it, until victory and there is no enemy, but peace!!||
soft crater
This stank up the Whole complex even across dimensions
neon gust
only real ones remember the DOT
soft crater
craggy pier
the dot?
wait
how did you get an image in this chat
oh mod contact has image perms
stiff kraken
I won't click cause no spoilies
soft crater
I won't click cause no spoilies
It's technically not a spoiler and idk if it's even in Alt.
craggy pier
immense spoilers for the game right here
craggy pier
only real ones remember the **DOT**
did the game used to have good sights
neon gust
did the game used to have good sights
the only sight change was with sniper
craggy pier
what is the dot then
neon gust
bacn in og r4 whe they were teasing it
one of the devs started trolling
and put a dot and people tought it was an arg
soft crater
the only sight change was with sniper
Some sights got added details iirc. But idk when that was added.
neon gust
people actually got excited about the DOT
neon gust
and obviously everyone after it got release and it was a joke
soft crater
craggy pier
I made my sniper have the OG sight I guess
cheater
soft crater
Elaborate how it's cheating if it is cosmetic
Don't be one of those who don't understand what's cosmetic and what's cheating.
neon gust
i think hes joking solace
hardy grotto
imagine how much better I’d be if I had hel revo sight on dmr
Instead of that cringe scope
soft crater
i think hes joking solace
Wasn't serious on it. But also some people here can't tell the difference.
I am one that actually likes DMR scope
hardy grotto
Makes sense
craggy pier
i would expect nothing less from someone with an amine profile picture
soft crater
Wasn't serious on it. But also some people here can't tell the difference.
The last week or so. I've had some sub experienced player leave because colored name. (I told them I could literally stream my modlist to them.)
neon gust
None of the sights in the game are so intrusive that you need to change them
hardy grotto
Not the anime profile pic callout
neon gust
toxic clique
craggy pier
(i am engaging in tomfoolery)
soft crater
i would expect nothing less from someone with an amine profile picture
When it's my own drawing but aight
craggy pier
i retract my statement
stiff kraken
i would expect nothing less from someone with an amine profile picture
Hey :(
craggy pier
thems the rules idk
craggy pier
you have alerted the hoard
soft crater
I believe pachi claimed my sight changing was cheating because of zoom magnifications
(I use archive so I adjusted most sight fovs to be correct)
And I strictly keep thermals to their respective weapons
olive robin
I made my sniper have the OG sight I guess
Dude I wish I had a konig sight on the hel revo
Or the precision rifle on the sawed off
My accuracy would be astounding
soft crater
With the mod I use. I can't actually change sight on hel revo aside from giving it special revolver barrel
olive robin
What's the barrel do
soft crater
It's just cosmetic
dry pumice
He physically changes ironsight, is what he's saying
hidden ridge
It's just cosmetic
Caution
dry pumice
From whatever HELrev has to whatever specrev has
hidden ridge
For even arguing about DMR's sight being a bit shit I got REEEEd by someone saying that changing sights is cheating
hidden ridge
Well it is
I mean just give it a red dot
olive robin
If you are changing the sights because one is easier to use
hidden ridge
instead of the weird T-shit
hidden ridge
but some people act like that's the same as aimbotting or whatever
olive robin
It's not lol
But it's an advantage you don't get in vanilla
And it isn't exactly cosmetic when it makes the gun easier to use and aim with etc
hidden ridge
But it's an advantage you don't get in vanilla
Problem imho is that you can stretch that to anything that changes vanilla
Take it this way
olive robin
I view non "cheating" mods as things like unlock all apparel or show weapon stats in the lobby
hidden ridge
Beforehand the only way to ping resources (middle mouse ping I mean so that you say medpack here or whatnot) was a mod
Now it's in vanilla
olive robin
Yea
I am torn on if that is cheating or not
On one hand you'd just go in chat "med pack here"
On the other it lets you ping something you normally can't idk
hidden ridge
I am torn on if that is cheating or not
it's not
dont get drawn into the slippery slope argument
latent obsidian
🤔
olive robin
I do think anything that modifies your guns to help you land your shots easier is a form of cheating
hidden ridge
that "you begin with modded sights and end with thermals on all guns"
olive robin
Lol
hidden ridge
All of that
olive robin
I wouldn't even want thermals on all guns
hidden ridge
for even suggesting to change a sight on the DMR
olive robin
The cheating of changing sights is very different from aim botting
hidden ridge
I dont know man I cant really see that as cheating at all
olive robin
I don't really care if some guy in my lobby has thermals on everything or something
But it is definitely changing the game in a way that makes it easier for him
hidden ridge
It helps me aim but it's something so trivial it could very well be added in an update
olive robin
I dont know man I cant really see that as cheating at all
If all sights were equal, you would not be changing any of them
Though I agree the dmr sight is garbage
hidden ridge
If all sights were equal, you would not be changing any of them
I kinda disagree, thermals being an exception I never go "sight is shit" on any gun but the DMR
olive robin
Dmr is just comically worse
Despite being an alleged "precision gun"
Idk id probably mod the sight on it too
But I'd just call it cheating
Not a meaningful cheat or particularly impactful one but it's still not the way the game intends you to play
It's just sometimes the game intends for you to suffer for no reason
olive robin
I kinda disagree, thermals being an exception I never go "sight is shit" on any ...
How did you change the dmr sight though
olive robin
Oh
past star
I kinda disagree, thermals being an exception I never go "sight is shit" on any ...
PR scope 
quartz quiver
what other new game or projects they're going to?
arctic marten
Cyberheist pog!!!!!!!!
dry pumice
what other new game or projects they're going to?
Something we reffer to as "Cyberheist", which is a nickname more than anything else.
All we know is that it will be a game about robbing something / breaking into something, and it will be a dystopian sci-fi.
hidden ridge
Advanced Electronic Burglary
olive robin
Something we reffer to as "Cyberheist", which is a nickname more than anything e...
so cyberpunk payday...?
quartz quiver
what's the newer projects/games?
dry pumice
Something like that. No concept arts, no gameplay, no cinematic trailers... Could be anything.
olive robin
Something like that. No concept arts, no gameplay, no cinematic trailers... Coul...
little do we know its gtfo 2, set 200 years later in the new warden prison world, and we are once again playing as dauda, hacket, bishop, and woods who were stored in an HSU after r8
dry pumice
Wouldn't put it past them.
soft crater
For even arguing about DMR's sight being a bit shit I got REEEEd by someone sayi...
I keep thermals to their respective weapons. And I don't increase the zoom magnifications on guns that didn't have it originally.
Either way. The reason I change my gun designs around is because some designs disgust me.
Rifle for instance. The sight is so high over the barrel
surreal lake
For even arguing about DMR's sight being a bit shit I got REEEEd by someone sayi...
Power move is to cut out a sticky note as a iron sight and stick it onto the monitor
soft crater
Same with DMR
olive robin
I keep thermals to their respective weapons. And I don't increase the zoom magni...
how do you change dmr sight
i need to destroy it and rebuild it in a more useful form
soft crater
Mods
olive robin
yea which
soft crater
Even then. I still use DMR sight on DMR
olive robin
insane person activities
soft crater
I played old WW1/WW2 games with T scopes
past star
Getting licked disgusts me so I turn on god mode and give my team invincibility
It’s QOL
soft crater
Or rpg sights that you won't understand until you watch a guide (this is specifically referencing the scoped variant of the RPG-7 in Squad)
olive robin
i dont think theres bullet drop in gtfo
soft crater
insane person activities
Adapt and overcome
ocean spindle
i dont think theres bullet drop in gtfo
no dont think so
olive robin
Getting licked disgusts me so I turn on god mode and give my team invincibility
my lack of skill makes dying unreasonable, i no clip and god mode as QOL
soft crater
i dont think theres bullet drop in gtfo
There isn't. I'm just referencing the sight
soft crater
Getting licked disgusts me so I turn on god mode and give my team invincibility
Some random with a 5 stack of fog repellers
past star
my lack of skill makes dying unreasonable, i no clip and god mode as QOL
This is equivalent to modifying guns using mods imo
olive robin
This is equivalent to modifying guns using mods imo
truly
olive robin
Cosmetically or stats?
the scope is a stat
10 if its good, 1 if its bad
dmr is about a 3
past star
Mainly stats but if you modifying a thermal scope or zoom on a weapon it’s kind of just changing the game
olive robin
if scopes were all equal, then there would be no reason to change it
past star
If PR had a good thermal it might be too op
soft crater
Mainly stats but if you modifying a thermal scope or zoom on a weapon it’s kind ...
I'll state it again. But I keep thermals to their respective guns and I adjust magnifications to what the gun originally had.
soft crater
It's bossing ability iirc is better with the dmg buff
neon gust
if you can aim ™
soft crater
ocean spindle
[shoots the floor]
soft crater
[shoots the floor]
Teammates*
soft crater
looks back when occlusion had a Sawed off buffed to basically be a 3 shot scatter gun in the main slot
Daky did a oopsy for a small time
olive robin
people underestimate the pr
ur right the pr team is p good for this game
scenic torrent
I haven’t played in a few months, and I completely forget what weapons I should avoid, what I should worship, and what should be used for specific purposes. Can someone give me a refresher?
neon gust
read their descriptions
all guns are viable
usue whatever you need
if you want a boss/giant killer sniper/scattergun/burst canon
the rest are more general use
dry pumice
I haven’t played in a few months, and I completely forget what weapons I should ...
HEL AutoPistol and Vanilla AR are the only 2 that come to mind.
HELPP function is too specific and frankly rudimentary.
Vanilla AR... Just pick Heavy SMG. Its basically better at almost everything.
olive robin
I haven’t played in a few months, and I completely forget what weapons I should ...
do not use the auto sentry
craggy pier
I haven’t played in a few months, and I completely forget what weapons I should ...
don't use:
Shotgun sentry
Auto sentry
HEL autopistol (unless you know what you're doing)
Spear (unless you know what you're doing)
okay then lmao
If you're gonna go in a level full of scouts might as well have 1 guy take a spear so it's impossible to fuck it up
it has some application
orchid bloom
Just curious, Why should I avoid HEL Autopistol, Spear & Shotgun/Auto sentries?
Do the have some things that make them worse from other weapons or tools?
vague bridge
auto sentry/pistol arent damage weapons and therefore don't kill as efficiently
ocean spindle
they stagger ! but arteks writin a bible writin it all down
dry pumice
Just curious, Why should I avoid HEL Autopistol, Spear & Shotgun/Auto sentries?
HEL Auto Pistol is a support weapon. It deals no damage, basically - instead it staggers enemies real good. If you pick it - your job is stunlocking the horde, not actually dealing damage to it.
HEL Auto Sentry is pretty much exactly the same thing and issues... Only in a form of a tool. Just bring burst sentry and it'll be 3 times more useful.
Shotgun sentry is... Okay?... Burst sentry is still the winner, but it's not like you're throwing / memeing the game.
Spear is fine. It's just hammer is just better if you learn how to use it right.
vague bridge
you were not wrong
ocean spindle
shotgun sentry i defend its a bit, better in some missions
vague bridge
shotgun sentry is good if you use it right
ocean spindle
where u have a chokepoint to take advantage of
but, usually the pick is burst if u dont know what ur gettin into or ur unsure
craggy pier
shotgun sentry misses too much
craggy pier
shotgun spread + aims at heads
- shoots at dead things
and it's inaccurate to start with
ocean spindle
thats with bio and the bio gives it more ammo
bold ginkgo
Yeah its actually really good now
ocean spindle
its not the bets but its not bad on some levels
bold ginkgo
talking about pr lol
dry pumice
Sniper sentry destroys giants.
If only there was a level that has 30 of them walking across a 50m open and clear room...
ocean spindle
ehemshdmksmdk there is some
craggy pier
Sniper sentry destroys giants.
If only there was a level that has 30 of them wal...
doesnt it take 2 shots to kill one
ocean spindle
no it has 50 dmg i think
craggy pier
yeah
dry pumice
48, to be precise. I don't remember precision though.
craggy pier
1x
dry pumice
Cringe.
craggy pier
yup
dry pumice
48x1.5
ocean spindle
dies
craggy pier
finally some good numbers
ocean spindle
om nom nom
craggy pier
0.31768x precision
dry pumice
I mean... That's very nice. Burst sentry be taking forever.
craggy pier
67.231 damage
ocean spindle
2
craggy pier
idk i hate hybrids
ocean spindle
by the wikis numbers
craggy pier
yea
dry pumice
Eh... Still better than any other sentry.
ocean spindle
Back (2x), Head (2x), Occiput (4x)
olive robin
the benefit is you can put a sniper down and it shoots scouts which is funny
craggy pier
Eh... Still better than any other sentry.
i meaaaannnn
craggy pier
yes but burst sentry will also hit headshots against hybrids right
dry pumice
Vets laugh at that one, but I did it a couple of times when playing with bots.
craggy pier
their heads dont pop
ocean spindle
if it doesnt miss i guess
hybrids move like a fuck
dry pumice
yes but burst sentry will also hit headshots against hybrids right
What's BS dmg?
ocean spindle
(2.01 x 3) = 6.03
neon gust
bullshit damage
craggy pier
oh i was right
neon gust
you welcome
dry pumice
12 dmg with headshot
craggy pier
i typed out 3x2 and then was like nah
dry pumice
150 / 12 = 13 bursts
ocean spindle
you welcome
no pos garcias
ocean spindle
150 / 12 = 13 bursts
welp
dry pumice
Fairly certain sniper sentry will be done with it before it hits 7 or 8
craggy pier
is it possible to calculate a time to kill for sentries against groups
dry pumice
Damn thing should've carried me through R6C2
craggy pier
is their detection speed a flat thing
ocean spindle
is it possible to calculate a time to kill for sentries against groups
like an entire wave? i mean calculate the enemies calculate the time it takes on one
dry pumice
Unfortunately it's missing a chromosome and was just starring at hybrids doing nothing
craggy pier
like an entire wave? i mean calculate the enemies calculate the time it takes on...
im talking about their detection speed
dry pumice
All this damage doesn't matter if the thing refuses to shoot
ocean spindle
a
neon gust
All this damage doesn't matter if the thing refuses to shoot
place it better and use symbiosis
99% of the sentries lacking is its user
ocean spindle
for the burst one second
sniper 3, 1.5 with bio
neon gust
your place it wrong
craggy pier
place it better and use symbiosis
ocean spindle
1.5
neon gust
you get a shitty results
dry pumice
I had BioBishop. It was overlooking a hallway leading up to bulkhub. Clear line of fire for like 20-30 meters and it doesn't care
neon gust
i literally took it today on my r6d4 and it killed so much while i was doing the surge
dry pumice
3 hybrids dancing in the green projector and for 5 seconds straight
craggy pier
you doing what
dry pumice
Dafaq does that mean
neon gust
also the cone of the sniper sentry its smaller
than the other sentries
so it doesnt cover an entire "picture" if i can explain myself
craggy pier
what is a consistent ping
craggy pier
and bots dont?
neon gust
whats your point
craggy pier
what's your point
neon gust
the point was that having a bot for perma pings doesnt matter
craggy pier
"bio bot doesnt matter
you keeping a consistent ping
it what matter"
what did he mean by this
neon gust
you doing your job with the bio
craggy pier
last i checked bots ping pretty fuckin well
stiff kraken
game just finished downloading, see you on the other side
neon gust
game just finished downloading, see you on the other side
do training and remember to have fun
craggy pier
kem let me play with you and teach you all of my bad advice
stiff kraken
do training and remember to have fun
ill have fun if i win
final last words
*famous
"your system is bellow min specs"
fucking 8gb ram laptop 😭
i miss my desktop
neon gust
fucking 8gb ram laptop 😭
i play on a laptop
craggy pier
fair warning it is not opimized
stiff kraken
3060 laptop with a ryzen 7 5800h
craggy pier
not bad
stiff kraken
the only issue is really the ram, i think i can upgrade it tho
craggy pier
yeah what
stiff kraken
no it was just telling me about the ram
stiff kraken
cause i have 7900mb of ram instead of the 8000mb recomended
cause system uses a small percentage of ram
should be fine lol
stiff kraken
i dont plan on going ultra graphics anyway
stiff kraken
always the issue 🥹
fan go BRRRTTTT
stiff kraken
the window is opened, should be enough 🙃
yeah i should get a stand
with the lil fans under
neon gust
the window is opened, should be enough 🙃
thats not really what im saying
stiff kraken
helps to elevate the laptop too cause i need better posture lol
stiff kraken
thats not really what im saying
I know xD
the fans on this thing are pretty good, i havent had thermal issues in other games so far
neon gust
just make sure the air intakes are not covered and maybe even connect a keyboard so you dont usue the laptop keyboard
stiff kraken
i think the gpu has a temp limit of 90 degrees before thermal throttling and i never go above 80 usually
cpu is 110 degrees if im not mistaken
thermal limit
im usually in the 70 degrees range
neon gust
believe it or not
stiff kraken
i always have an external laptop i hate laptop keyboards
neon gust
cpus and gpus on laptops its pretty normal to hit almos 100 c
stiff kraken
oh yeah i know
i can keep an eye on the temps as i play
stands are usually pretty cheap anyway so next time i go shopping ill just snatch one
neon gust
aslong as your room have decent temperature and your not coverint the intake your good
stiff kraken
yeah
neon gust
i bought a stand and i havent regret it
stiff kraken
well i live in a pretty hot place but the intakes are on the sides so im good
asus tuf my beloved
there are no fans under the laptop which was the issue on my very first laptop
having it flat on a surface would block the intake
neon gust
even then the intake grills on the bottom should be uncovered
for MAXIMUN COOLING
🌨️
stiff kraken
people here go to the beach in november, thats how bad it is here 😭
neon gust
your cpu and gpu works well
wind wren
In the winter I just play outside in the -20°C, natural cooling is the best
stiff kraken
Based
olive robin
real ones buy a meat locker in the arctic and game in there
stiff kraken
i might invest in that, a meat locker just for me and my laptop
olive robin
or at least, have their tower in there with a cable running to your keyboard and monitor
stiff kraken
a gaming locker
olive robin
i might invest in that, a meat locker just for me and my laptop
if you wanna be insane you can buy an external keyboard and monitor
plug them into your laptop
then stick the laptop in the fridge
wind wren
real ones buy a meat locker in the arctic and game in there
REAL ones cool their pics with liquid nitrogen
stiff kraken
if you wanna be insane you can buy an external keyboard and monitor
i want an external laptop im TIRED of laptop screens
olive robin
REAL ones cool their pics with liquid nitrogen
realer ones use the vacuum of space
olive robin
i want an external laptop im TIRED of laptop screens
all laptops are external.
foolishness.
neon gust
i want an external laptop im TIRED of laptop screens
i got a 2k monitor connected to my 3050ti laptop
worth it
neon gust
connect it to the laptop
olive robin
i have a 1080 p monitor only cause
neon gust
easy money
stiff kraken
connect it to the laptop
its at home an ocean away
olive robin
i visually cannot tell difference between 4k and 1080 p
unless im like 2 inches away
stiff kraken
i moved out for uni and could only bring a laptop
stiff kraken
I DID
neon gust
dang
stiff kraken
but my mom doesnt want to
stiff kraken
because she likes to see me suffer i dunno shes odd
neon gust
cant argue with mom
shes knows you wanna game
so shes like hell no
im not sending him that
stiff kraken
cant argue with mom
im going back home for christmas so shes gonna hear me out
or else
olive robin
well how are you going back
neon gust
just the monitor
olive robin
u walking???
neon gust
10kg aint that much
stiff kraken
u walking???
i have to cross an ocean my man 😭
there no space in my bag
im only allowed a certain weight in the plane
neon gust
put it on the baggage
stiff kraken
its not that easy lmfao
olive robin
i have to cross an ocean my man 😭
luggage
stiff kraken
i dont have a luggage
neon gust
luggage limit its often 21kg
stiff kraken
was more expensive to take a luggage, i can only bring a handbag
olive robin
put it in the handbag even if it sticks out
arctic marten
big handbag
stiff kraken
ill only be there 4 days so it didnt make sense to spend too much money on the plane tickets
stiff kraken
put it in the handbag even if it sticks out
its not that itll stick out, its that it physically doesnt fit lol
olive robin
its not that itll stick out, its that it physically doesnt fit lol
tape it to the side and call it a day
stiff kraken
big handbag
plus i need to bring clothes in my bag, its not an empty one
olive robin
convince mother to mail it ig
stiff kraken
i have to
but everytime i talk about it she gets rude af, i can tell she just doesnt wanna bother
arctic marten
plus i need to bring clothes in my bag, its not an empty one
bigger handbag
stiff kraken
bigger handbag
theres a size limit to a handbag
arctic marten
I’m sorry to hear that
stiff kraken
and id still need all the cables and the monitor
its just not realistic without a luggage
im getting 130 fps in the training so far
wont get my hopes up tho lol
omg you cant afk in this game "SUBJECT MUST PROCEED"
lusty bramble
ThaEpicPotato
ocean spindle
beepkc
olive robin
im getting 130 fps in the training so far
It varies based on the level and what you're doing
arctic marten
warden doesnt like waastin time
Why does he make me play c2: pabulm then
arctic marten
My foot hurts tho
ocean spindle
do more exercise
tepid rock
my game won't let me inject that's weird
like i can't start the game it says override redeploy
any idea how i fix this ?
dry pumice
Game cache?
olive robin
any idea how i fix this ?
Verify integrity
A space particle hit your hard drive just right to break something
tepid rock
folders integrity ?
uneven gulchBOT
If you are having an issue with the game please perform the following steps. This will often times fix the issue. If that doesn't work try the steps in ?t fix2
Perform the following steps:
- Uninstall game on steam.
- Press the Windows Key and the R key at some time. This will open a "Run" dialog.
Inside put the following in:
%userprofile%\AppData\LocalLow\
%userprofile%\Appdata\Local\Temp\- Install the game
olive robin
Why use assault rifle over bullpup?
Bullpup seems better overall
More range more ammo more stable, suffers slightly in damage but makes up for it in precision damage
Ig the reload is a bit long but
Seems very good
fierce walrus
ar is in kinda a bad spot rn
with not too much going for it
it has nice reload
i think it also has very nice recoil?
narrow niche
Why use assault rifle over bullpup?
fierce walrus
but overall it falls short compared to other full autos
and now some toxic vet shows up and says why not just use carbine/hel revo
dry pumice
HSMG is a direct upgrade to AR, basically.
Literally everything is better except range (7 vs 10m)
narrow niche
and now some toxic vet shows up and says why not just use carbine/hel revo
Why not just use hel shotty
:D
dry pumice
They need to buff damage to be same as HSMG, increase range to 12m and maybe increase prec by +0.05 or +0.1 even
olive robin
and now some toxic vet shows up and says why not just use carbine/hel revo
I like carbine but the burst tends to bother me
dry pumice
Or just... Give it like 150 bullets to spare.
olive robin
I like hel revo but don't like the recoil making it jump around in my hand and the ammo
olive robin
They need to buff damage to be same as HSMG, increase range to 12m and maybe inc...
AR if it just became a longer range machine pistol
olive robin
Ik
narrow niche
But it has 8 shots
olive robin
It makes me upset too
narrow niche
AR if it just became a longer range machine pistol
Lmao
I mean
Isn't that just a shitty bullpup
narrow niche
Yes but at the same time
Sometimes
Ok sometimes
Your takes
I'm not finishing that statement for fear of my life
dry pumice
AR is literally okay, it just needs a selling point over HSMG which is perfectly balanced right now
arctic marten
I'm not finishing that statement for fear of my life
Why is everyone so mean to artek…
arctic marten
Artek you gotta stand up for yourself
Prove him wrong with spreadsheets
Works every time
arctic marten
I’m handing out access to mine for the low low price of 1 r5e1 completion
dry pumice
My takes are not that wild, just badly argued.
sturdy glen
and now some toxic vet shows up and says why not just use carbine/hel revo
Toxic vet lmao
Mfw objectively correct takes 🤯
olive robin
Idk it's annoying to ask "can we compare x gun and y gun?" And some guy just walks in and goes "they both suck use hel revo carbine"
I'm probably guilty of it too but
We Know Hel Revolver And Carbine Are Good Stop Telling Us This
sturdy glen
It is but no one was gonna do it
arctic marten
You should just use carbine
dry pumice
you're doing this right now
olive robin
Idk I think they each have their use
arctic marten
Can you blame them
dry pumice
Spear is not that bad once you let go of sprinting
olive robin
The hammer is statistically better and logically the best
sturdy glen
No I don't blame them
olive robin
But I like other ones
I find hammer just kinda boring
I'm more of a bat/knife enjoyer
arctic marten
Lil bro thinks he’s helping with the giant…
sturdy glen
None of the other melee are nearly as comfortable or fun as hammer to me
Bat is close but
dry pumice
Define "fun"
narrow niche
Spear is funny
sturdy glen
It's just missing out so I'm kinda eh on it
Hammer feels good artek
I WANT to use it more
olive robin
Lil bro thinks he’s helping with the giant…
I know I'm not killing a giant with knife lol
dry pumice
In what ways, exactly, precisely
olive robin
I use it for the smalls
dry pumice
Do you like the swinging animation, the sound it makes?
sturdy glen
And you can do funny stuff with it
olive robin
You only need two to three people for giants
sturdy glen
The swing is good
dry pumice
I'm being genuine
narrow niche
You only need one person for a giant no?
hidden ridge
In what ways, exactly, precisely
I know you are not asking me but it's more about how spear just slows me down way too much
sturdy glen
The hitbox is actually kinda insane
narrow niche
But also
olive robin
You only need one person for a giant no?
It's safer with more
hidden ridge
It feels like it wants me to take my time and I dont like being forced to do that
narrow niche
Standing in place and spearing is funny
dry pumice
I know you are not asking me but it's more about how spear just slows me down wa...
That's fine and i understand
hidden ridge
I cant bother with knife because I'd be useless if a giant is there or if I miss heads too much
olive robin
Use bat
ocean spindle
:D
hidden ridge
And I tried the bat twice and then got bored and went back to hammer
olive robin
You can theoretically stagger the giant
ocean spindle
D:
hidden ridge
Since to my super-limited tries in og r6 it felt like "hammer, but..."
narrow niche
I tdoes
sturdy glen
Bats range is just meh
narrow niche
Spear has less charge time