gtfo-related-questions

[soft crater]

If you could use boosters on bots

[tardy ingot]

Which doesnt play into efficiency… ever
Efficency here being 9 bullets per refill

„Staggers in 2 shots“ -> no it takes 3 -> „on paper it can fire 3 shots in a second“
Also hel rifle can shoot twice in a second ?

[ocean spindle]

on paper didnt hel gun shoot 5 per second?

i think its a .2 charge

[fierce walrus]

it prolly did

past tense

[ocean spindle]

past tense was a 0.1 charge

[fierce walrus]

didnt it get nerfed even more

[ocean spindle]

they nerfed it once

[fierce walrus]

i feel like it got nerfed recently

and some time back

[ocean spindle]

no only on Alt R4

since it was introduced as it was before in Alt R3

check patchnotes

[halcyon mango]

With the efficiency I was just being a bit lazy with language. Saw chokemod has shortest ttk and slightly more dmg per refill and just went with fastest killer and efficiency.

Hel weapon efficiency is sorta mute anyways with overpen so you'd get more bang for the buck if you setup correctly anyways.

According to the weapon spreadsheet I've been referencing from, hel gun and hel rifle have a hidden additional delay (after firing before you can charge another shot) (0.1 for hel gun, 0.75 for hel rifle), for a final 0.3 and 0.87 shot delay respectively (what I used to recalculate the rof they have on the sheet).

So hel gun has a 3 shot stagger with rof of 3.33. While hel rifle has a 2 shot stagger with a rof of 1.15. So taking this "on paper" stats comparison hel gun technically staggers faster.

Footnote:
there's a bit of ambiguity with the rof and the charge delay for hel gun. The comment note says that it can charge up immediately after fire (which suggests a rounds per second of 5), but the rof (measured per minute) on the sheet, which was manually entered, suggests a 0.1 delay (giving r.p.s. of 3.33).

And again, I've just been using paper analysis. While my efficiency statement may have been slightly inaccurate (and I had admitted so), the discussion that we've been having seems to be needlessly confrontational with the intent to prove the other wrong.

[sturdy glen]

as is the way of gtfo cord

[vague bridge]

||do the three tanks spawn after reactor sequence ended or a certain amount of time after 4/4 code is provided||

spoilers r5d2

[fierce nebula]

guys he said does the three tanks spawn after reactor sequence ended or is it a certain amount of time after the 4th code is used in R5D2

[craggy pier]

short time after you are given the cod

[cold quarry]

the 10min timer is a fakeout

[fierce nebula]

guys did you know in R7E1 theres a immortal tank near the start of the level that cannot be killed

[soft crater]

I love when you come back and Pablo didn't despawn

[mossy aurora]

Anyone else here like the choke mod buckland?

[stuck elm]

yis

[soft crater]

It's good

Not my preferred shotgun though

[fierce nebula]

it's the best shotgun for damage atm

will be interesting to see if scattergun takes it's place

hel shotgun is also good but it's mostly for crowd clearing

[halcyon mango]

vomits damage like no tomorrow

[vague bridge]

depends

iirc combat is best damage per refill

choke mod might be best damage in a burst/dps

[dry pumice]

I sometimes bring it as upgrade to HCP when i really need that 30 breakpoint, or when i just want the classic feeling of a competent shotgun that's neither innacurate nor unnaturally weak. Games don't really do that anymore...

[hollow patio]

So I'm confused, as a new player, am I stuck playing the older rundowns by myself? Or do I just have to find other beginners to play them with? Or do the old rundowns not even matter?

[jolly fossil]

you can invite bots or go to LFG channels

[hollow patio]

So I can use LFG? The rules seem to dictate otherwise so that's why I was asking to clarify

[jolly fossil]

in lobby you can invite 3 bots and change what guns and stuff they use, and then you command them with your voice. for a mission like R1C1 youll most likely need at least one other player

[odd coyote]

i literally just installed the game if u want another player plus u can use #lfg-beginners

[jolly fossil]

theres no rules against using lfg for early missions thats where its most useful

[latent obsidian]

that rule is referring to old game files, you can LFG for any rundown available in the game

[hollow patio]

AHHH okay. That makes more sense

[latent obsidian]

It confuses a lot of people, you are by no means the first and will not be the last

[hollow patio]

I was like, but how am I supposed to playyyy

[odd coyote]

real

[fierce nebula]

they really need to update the rules

so much for "R6 is made easier to have more new players"

then pull a pikachu surprise face when new players buy the game

[vague bridge]

alt r6 should be harder

its purpose of being easy for new players is invalid since alt rundowns

[fair turtle]

Whats the bestest level / rundown to play ?

w friends that have never played before

[vague bridge]

to introduce people to the game, go from r1 and go up

but r5 is probably the best in terms of fun

its also the hardest

[icy cave]

Just start at R1 as it will introduce them to the new enemies etc over time. Now if you want to throw em in the deep end: R4E1

[dreamy nebula]

Hey quick question about the alt run. My friends and I are starting up for the second time but we joined late. We saw there is like genuine story missions in run 7 but not in the alt runs, are we missing out on story content from earlier times here or was there not before like run 6?

[ocean spindle]

R6 and R7 had the first mission stories with some audio voices, but R7 is the only one where characters talk to u specifically and their actions are in the missions themselves, the rest from R1 to R5 have lore logs which are found in terminals

[dreamy nebula]

gotcha thanks!

[dry pumice]

R6 and onwards is where the narative really kicked off.
R1-R5 are just passive lore logs and data on terminals. Its not like anyone even pays attention except for #gtfo-lore enthusiasts. Who will read a lore log on a terminal in the middle of D tier error alarm?
Just don't worry about it. Play ALTS, wait for R6 (almost here), proceed to get the narrative experience, whatever that is.

[ocean spindle]

tbh most of em arent like that

most r just chillin there

and u can read em whenever

[dry pumice]

I just read everything straight from the wiki. Its not worth it reading them in game, since you either too busy OR you're delaying other people.
Best case: i read a log, they're stealth clearing some sleeping room.

[ocean spindle]

well maybs a full group likes lore idk

they can also yeah just advance while u read or listen

[vague bridge]

the screenshot feature

[wise beacon]

Uh... can anyone tell me if the bots teleport to us if we get far enough away?

[craggy pier]

2 rooms away they will but sometimes u need to go back a lil before they phase through wall

[wise beacon]

The bots with me in a 2 player 2 bot game are stuck up high before loading

Can't post a screenshot

[craggy pier]

that i havent heard or seen

[wise beacon]

Posted in GTFO media

[craggy pier]

disconnect and reconnect them 🤔

[wise beacon]

Fek. There goes boosters

Bug and a half too

[dusky hawk]

which weapons are the best as the game is currently, without the weapons being vaulted?

[dense leaf]

Noooooo u were supposed to kick the bots and put them back

[minor fractal]

HEL Revo, HEL Gun.

[wise beacon]

You can kick the bots in a level?

[dense leaf]

Yes

[minor fractal]

Not sure what "vaulted" means.

[craggy pier]

yaya

lock then unlock bot slots

[dense leaf]

Hosts can. Just hit escape

[wise beacon]

Double fek, we just exited the expedition

[dense leaf]

[dusky hawk]

before they transitioned to the ALT:// system, some weapons went in and out of availability

a weapon not in circulation is "vaulted"

[minor fractal]

I don't think anybody says that, but okay.

[ocean spindle]

i mean everyone has their, slang

[wise beacon]

A pain in the arse and a half now, and a bug that they were way up high

[dense leaf]

The only thing u need to keep note of is bots will lose their resources

[ocean spindle]

but every weapon is now in the game permanently

so theres no such thing as rundown gun anymore

[jaunty latch]

other then scattergun which we have to wait until september for

[ocean spindle]

yeah but well is not rundown exclusive

but well every weapon is useful if u use em well

so it just mostly depends on ur taste, on what ur good with n stuff

[jaunty latch]

other then bullpup

[wise beacon]

That wouldn't have been a problem because they weren't even in the level XD

[dense leaf]

Carbine, Hel Rifle

[ocean spindle]

pretty much yeah but well if u use it u can still beat levels

[dusky hawk]

is the sawn off any good because it looks hilarious

[ocean spindle]

its super fun tbh, maybs not top tier but

super fun

ksmdkm

[dense leaf]

I mean for if it happens mid run and u need to do it in the future

[ocean spindle]

its basically a pump shotgun but main weapon

[wise beacon]

Yeah. Never had an issue before now though

[jaunty latch]

doesnt it deal the exact same damage as it too

[minor fractal]

Yes.

[ocean spindle]

no it does

30 and 30

just sawed off has a much wider, spread of pellets

so u wont be hittin every single one every time

[halcyon mango]

if only it had 4 chambers to one mag a giant 😔

[craggy pier]

a dual wielded gun would be nice

[soft crater]

just two tap the giants back

[halcyon mango]

I ain't testing its melee range

[vague bridge]

top tier and fun

highest damage per refill of any main

[dusky hawk]

can the r66 still one shot a scout

tiem sensitive questio n ples

[ocean spindle]

R66 is the revo?

[soft crater]

revolver?

[ocean spindle]

from the back of the head

yeah

[soft crater]

within damage range

[dusky hawk]

power revolver

[ocean spindle]

... power revolver kmskdm

so the revolver

yeah

occiput shot

not front shot

[soft crater]

headshot is like 30 damage vs occiput being like 60 damage

[dusky hawk]

power revolver as in not primary ammo

called it power instead of special by accident

[ocean spindle]

ksdmkm its funny

:3

[soft crater]

is that a

Destiny moment?

[fierce nebula]

unlike Destiny
we keep our seasons

[craggy pier]

only after...ugh yeah

[soft crater]

R8 comes out.
10cc: for GTFO 2.0 we will be deleting all the Rundowns -

[ocean spindle]

its gonna be 2 levels, A1 and E1

[fierce nebula]

if GTFO followed Destiny
R8 would delete the rest, including the cosmetics earned

[soft crater]

And charge each rundown as a expansion dlc

[fierce nebula]

R8 will cost $10
R9 will cost $15 and R8 gets deleted

[vivid kayak]

Not delete, charge $5 per cosmetic you have

[jaunty latch]

||it would also have terrible gameplay||

[soft crater]

you mean strong guns getting nerfed

[spare yacht]

waasssup yall

if any of yall remember if r5C3 does it have a or check point save point?

[fierce nebula]

R5
checkpoint

okay blud

go eat sand

[soft crater]

only Rundown 6/7 and potentially 8 have checkpoints

everything prior does not have checkpoints whatsoever

[fierce nebula]

thats what I found weird about ALTERNATE rundowns

the levels are already mostly modified

why not add checkpoints "for the new players"

it just makes checkpoints worse

[tardy ingot]

1. levels werent even remotely designed with checkpoints in mind (then again, id argue neither are new levels)
2. r1-r3 dont need checkpoints length wise at all, r4/r5 might have deserved some length wise (r5d1 ugh) but finding the right spot to implement one is not easy
3. They are the biggest mess for bugs in the game, you want all ALT rundowns to have a lot of checkpoint related bugs and potentially take longer to release just to not find most fixes in the end somehow?

[icy cave]

You really want all game breaking bugs on all rundowns???

I hope they release Alt R6 without checkpoints

[icy cave]

don't need one it's only an hour long

[fierce nebula]

THIS

just take out the checkpoints

enable
checkpoint = false
or some shit

[fierce nebula]

but then why have checkpoints in like R7A1
theres too damn many there, it's almost a meme

R1C1 could do with one too

[fierce walrus]

god a reactor mission would surely break so much with checkpoints

[craggy pier]

Isn't there a reactor mission with checkpoints?

r6d3

[icy cave]

#R6D3

And was cheesable AF

[craggy pier]

does R6D1 have checkpoints?

[icy cave]

Yes sadly like f'ing 5 of em

[craggy pier]

So an another reactor with checkpoints

[icy cave]

which is bonkers like it is 1 hour long

[icy cave]

Not really all codes are given to you. so it does not break

On R6D3 it breaks cause you do not need to search codes anymore as they do not change on checkpoint restart

[craggy pier]

oh lmao

[icy cave]

Yep so fingers crossed they remove ALL checkpoints

(they won't) but one can dream

[civic wave]

They changed it

So the reactor codes change iirc

[craggy pier]

you still had to do the key findings if u wanted to do secondary

[icy cave]

Only for uplinks, reactors still scuffed

Cause it was broken for R6D2 sec also indeed. THATcwas fixed R6D3 remained kaputt till the end

[civic wave]

Ah, patch notes nto to be trusted then I guess

[icy cave]

Nope

like patch notes say like 3 times checkpoint bugs fixed yet you still get hardsruck with cells in your hands

[fierce nebula]

with Alt R4 and Alt R5 lacking any checkpoints just delete checkpoints please 🥺

[jaunty latch]

can you not just avoid the bugs by not using them when you die

[fierce walrus]

but that requires the host to make a conscious decision to wipe all the progress on the level

[icy cave]

Yes, but then again just remove em. cause they useless

[neon gust]

Unless they plan to continue support and keep developing the game further ( they should honestly) they should keep checkpoints

if theyre ending support

[jaunty latch]

tbh I think every level having buggy checkpoints would be better then outright removing them

[neon gust]

well

just remove them

[craggy pier]

some of them soft lock you or make it harder to play

plus people should be used to no checkpoints by now

[jaunty latch]

yes but not all of them

[craggy pier]

5 rundows seem enough to get people going

[jaunty latch]

I just think they would make it a lot easier for new people to get over the initial learning curve of the game without ragequitting even if some of them break the game

[craggy pier]

the first wave of players didnt need handholding and they are doing just fine now

even as a new player i find it better to just wipe reset than to force a checkpoint that most of the time fails me

[jaunty latch]

I dont think anyone is going to hear anything from the people who quit early on

[fierce walrus]

tbh quite often did i find my team deciding to reset on an R7 level cause we reached the checkpoint in too bad shape

[jaunty latch]

and tbh getting people over that initial learning curve has made it really hard to get anyone I know to play the thing more then once

[fierce walrus]

but also they are usefull for longer levels such as R7C1, where the one checkpoint at the ends helps a lot

[craggy pier]

also keep in mind that "gamers" nowadays are a soft bunch

[fierce walrus]

so i feel like one checkpoint per long level would be enough

[fierce walrus]

g a y m e r s

[craggy pier]

if a game presents itself as a hardcore game then it needs to be hardcore

anything that u have to adapt to through trial n error is good even if its a game

[jaunty latch]

how do checkpoints prevent that again

[civic wave]

They allow for more egregious blunt force attempts where you go full tilt and slam into a wall

[craggy pier]

yeah it vision tunnels players into one tricking that portion of the level

instead of developing a general understanding of the level, guns and strategies

[hidden ridge]

I feel like the checkpoint debate is getting a bit stale since all the alt rundowns that didnt have them do not have them

I get the fear of "they might add checkpoints to older rundowns to make them too easy"

They didnt

[craggy pier]

people starting to dissociate they need to talk bout something till next rundown or next big thing

[hidden ridge]

I expect R8 to have checkpoints like R7 did tbh

1 per map save for the super secret F1 which will have nothing

I dont think they're going to keep making rundowns after 8 anyway

[jaunty latch]

I mean unless the article I was sent was making shit up this was said in it

"The pair tell us the game has been in development for around three years, with the concept for it dating back further, although the wrapping up of GTFO allows the entire team to move over to work on this new project."

and id assume r8 would be the final part of wrapping it up

[hidden ridge]

I stopped taking gaming journos articles seriously about 15 years ago

[craggy pier]

yeah it should be

[jaunty latch]

I dont normally read them just a friend sent me it

[hidden ridge]

It's also just a reasonable choice, they get no money from new rundown releases

[jaunty latch]

as long as they open the modding floodgates fully once they stop updating it im fine with it

[craggy pier]

gtfo is the type of game that needs some sort of updates at one point its going to fully die and then anyone that buys it will be stuck

[jaunty latch]

I mean pubs might but roping other people you know into playing it will keep working

and the game is barely playable without a consistent group anyway

[icy cave]

There is enough A and B levels to learn. Checkpoints have no use anymore and are broken anyways and until proven false: unfixable.

This game never needed them, they don't work, if people can't finish without checkpoints they not good enough for what lies ahead anyways

in other words peeps need to uncasualize themselves

[icy cave]

R7C1 is 35 minutes. HOW is that long

[jaunty latch]

throw a new group in and it will take 1-2 hours

[icy cave]

you old m8

[icy cave]

Yeah and that's the point. They need to learn, not brute force themselves through

They wipe and redo it, every time a little faster

And then bingo it clicks and they pass it

[dry pumice]

35 is speedrunning basically (probably fog skip?), pubs is 45 at least due to all the crouching and stealthing.

[icy cave]

I'm sick of people making excuses for new players. everyone had to learn, if someone rage quits: good! game not for them

[icy cave]

Speedrunning??? we were doing casual with pauzes and waiting for a 4th to drop in mid game and it took 34 minutes

It is casual run

[dry pumice]

I don't believe it, something's off

[icy cave]

You want the recording?

I'll send you the link. also still 3 to 6 uses of ammo left on extract

[tardy ingot]

???
45 min is casual time lol

[icy cave]

You are highly overevaluating R7C1 m8

[dry pumice]

R7C1 is the GLP hunt right?

[tardy ingot]

speedrun with fog skip is below 15 min

[icy cave]

yep

There is ZERO excuses for 2 checkpoints on a level that short. AND zero excuses for new players to demand them

[jaunty latch]

why do I keep thinking r7c1 is binary

[tardy ingot]

the 2nd checkpoint is one of the better implemented ones for sure tho

[dry pumice]

10 minutes to turn off the fog... 10 minutes to get the cells and em' over, scan included... 10 minutes(?) to do the GLP hunt itself... 5 Minutes preparing in the big room consooming all the supplies and 5 minutes to actually escape. Hm. Maybe it is 35 minutes, but it still doesn't feel like it.

[icy cave]

doesn't need one either as demonstrated by the fact it does not have one

[tardy ingot]

first one basically doesnt even exist due bugs

And the only reason i think it exists is because they dont want you to repeat the cell walk

[icy cave]

I'll send you the recording, it's a short watch anyways

Then you can see where the time is won

Cause I dunno, it's just a normal run

[dry pumice]

You probably don't retroactively rescan every single zone for a missed supply pack or something

Always making sure

[icy cave]

Analyse away

[dry pumice]

Dammit, i don't have any clear screenshots of the damn thing

I don't remember it ever being below 40, doesn't sound right

[icy cave]

There ya go

[tardy ingot]

Playing slow

The level rly shouldnt go above 1 hour unless new

[dry pumice]

Yeah, pretty much as expected - just meta playstyle at work. Never ending hammer sprint.

[icy cave]

DOES IT WORK ?

And it's rando's

[dry pumice]

It is? I couldn't tell.

The first room alone, depending on the spawns, takes like 2 minutes. These guys pretty much went loud on it.

[icy cave]

Only game I played with em, never seen em since

[hidden ridge]

10mins to turn off fog?

enter zone, kill scout, go left, input command, go back

people keep wanting to loot that zone for IMHO absolute ZERO reason

And I always think you can fog skip easily with 3 sentries and 1 bio

That's how I did it with bots

But I could get the argument that bots dont give a shit about visibility I guess

[tardy ingot]

Heavily recommend mines for a quick and not speedrun fog skip

[dry pumice]

The general pub rule is to loot everything you can get your hands on, but yes - that zone more often than not is just not worth the trouble. High chance someone will fuck it up and now you have to expand ammo on (potentially multiple) scouts waves, and wow - now we run 0% ammo during the finale bit and checkpoints will have to be hit one or two times before they smooth it out (usually by just RUNNING).

[sacred dew]

When you're new and don't know the game, what do you do? explore the map to gain map knowledge

[soft crater]

"Man Bullpup is insane. It's so strong"

[sacred dew]

It is a decent enough gun

[icy cave]

not really, you list resources and then decide it's not worth it. or is .

[hidden ridge]

not new people

[sacred dew]

new enough

If i have to no map knowledge of a certain level, I would go explore it

[hidden ridge]

yeah they aren't doing that to explore it

[sacred dew]

so i dont have to wonder what's the best path is

[hidden ridge]

I usually am not the kind to argue but

it's a shit large zone with giants and scouts

just get to the terminal, do the command and get off

😄

I get what you say but it's only true for people that never did that map

[soft crater]

every glow stick matters ok

[hidden ridge]

wasn't the case with some "vets" I played it with

and I always roll with that shit because fuck having arguments over clearing a zone or not

but it's still unneeded

[sacred dew]

Glow stick is a missed opportunity for the dev to actually make them useful, coulda made them last longer

[sacred dew]

If i'm not playing with people I trust to clear the level, I would just clear the zone to avoid any complications later on because I dont trust people shooting in the fog during the s scan

[ocean spindle]

??

[sacred dew]

If you're new, you dont know what the hell is spawning in the zone so you just clear it to be safe

if you have skill issues then you clear it to be safe

If you're a vet then you clear it for fun

play the game long enough and you just clear it because you're no longer thinking when playing GTFO and just kill everything in sight

[ocean spindle]

im sorry to say, not even newies clear that zone
newies die tryin to clear it then dont do it
skill issues dont clear it cause its, stupid to clear the command zone of the fog, why would u
vets... idk i guess but i doubt it

[soft crater]

Teammates included right?

[sacred dew]

the worst enemies in level is actually your buddies with hel weapons. They gotta funnel and pen the line regardless if you're in the way

[soft crater]

I was shooting a scout once

and a teammate walked infront of me

but I was using hel rifle so I still killed the scout as well

[sacred dew]

^ how the game should be

let everyweapon be able to pen teammates for double damage / double the ammo efficiency

to be honest, this game is too generous

gotta half the damage of every weapon in the game while upping the crit damage by at least 50%

get rid of the crosshair

[ocean spindle]

u can do that

just go in the hud options

but people are too weak to play w/o hud

[sacred dew]

make it even harder to see when you're low

flashlight has rechargable battery so you cant have it on for more than 30s

your screen gotta crack whenever you take damage

your hands gotta shake whenever you're stamina is low

your character gotta be scared whenever there are too many enemies are agrroed to you, making you take more stamina drain

your eyes gotta become blurry whenever you maxed out stam

hammer shouldn't be able to 1 hit strikers

screen shake shouldn't be optional, should be mandatory

you gotta have to take infection damage whenever you're down so that repeatedly going down is actually bad instead of just 20% is infinite health yolo bullshit

biotrackers should be able to track faster and have faster cooldown but the cone should be smaller

all sentries should have biosym, make them weaker without and better with

team game goddamn it, i dont want jackasses with 3 burst and no brain bio in my team anymore

level tiles being randomized should be mandatory, no more map knowledge

hel revo needs 6 bullets and charge up time

sniper and hel rifle should be able to deafen your damn ears

boss screams should shake your screen so you can't aim

[fierce walrus]

dear god

how many changes do you want for this goddamn game

[sacred dew]

bring back striker scouts that don't have tentacles but immediate;ly detect your running

[fierce walrus]

you basically want a completely diffrent game

[hidden ridge]

what complications later?

Are we talking about the same zone, right?

🤔 It's the one with the command for lowering the fog in R7C1

It's nowhere near enough to the zone where you do the alarm for enemies to wake up

[sacred dew]

when you gotta long kite the level by going back to the zone

[fierce walrus]

why would you do that tho

[ocean spindle]

why would u do it that direction

[sacred dew]

for giant kiting

[fierce walrus]

w h y

[sacred dew]

i dont trust my non teammates

[hidden ridge]

Also "avoid people shooting in the fog" if we lowered the fog

there's no fog

[sacred dew]

only happened twice but that's enough for me to not trust

[fierce walrus]

just get bio and shoot trianges =)

[sacred dew]

how about just bring back the mapper to game, bio is kidna too op

[fierce walrus]

is it now tho

it turns off one player from shooting for some time

[sacred dew]

barely even 3 secs

[fierce walrus]

plus its almost exclusively used for alarms

its like you cannot die in 3 seconds

[sacred dew]

the danagerous parts of most levels are the alarm

[ocean spindle]

bio also helps on stealth on wakin up room on scouts on many other ways

and u cant die on 3 seconds unkess ur, bad

and go hug a big or somrthin

if u have many enemies on u

run

u will survive at least 7

[sacred dew]

sidestep

[sacred dew]

btw, all of the changes are easily done

[fierce walrus]

are they though?

can you imagine the amount of bugs with screen shake

[sacred dew]

screen shaking is actually pretty simple to implement because they already have one

[fierce walrus]

screen cracking would defo glitch tho

[sacred dew]

they already have that

[fierce walrus]

i would also expect there to be bugs with screen shake cause of boss roars

[fierce walrus]

wdym

where

[sacred dew]

GlassHUDshatter or something

[fierce walrus]

does that still work tho

as im guessing its cut content

[sacred dew]

it's cut cause too difficult for players i guess

[fierce walrus]

also it looks ugly as hell

[sacred dew]

that's the point

[fierce walrus]

no i dont mean it obstructs vision

it literally looks terrible

like graphics wise

also do you really not expect black screen bug 2.0 with that

also im guessing by "hammer not 1 hit strikers" you mean light tap and not charged right?

[sacred dew]

i meant charged hit should NOT 1 shot striker

[fierce walrus]

well other weapons already do that, no?

[sacred dew]

hammer being the only weapon that can do that is what makes it too GOATED

[fierce walrus]

also regarding this one, i think it would be not lore accurate as im pretty sure the characters have had some sorta militairy training injected into them

[fierce walrus]

oh you mean anywhere in the body?

but overall

hammer needs a nerf for sure

[dry pumice]

Most veterans are fine with hammer as is. The only thing i've seen they have issues with is too much stagger which makes hammer god at basically everything and other melees just do whatever it does but worse / with funny gimmicks (like knife dealing extra damage to sleeping enemies).
I too don't really see the point of nerfing hammer. Hammer is the golden standard of how a melee should be - the rest just needs buffs to be on the same page. Mostly by just dealing more damage or having unique features and mechanics, like knife's stealth bonus.

Spear TECHNICALLY tried to do just that by trading raw damage for precision damage, but the trade was dogshit.

[fierce walrus]

i feel like hammer needs its stagger to be smaller than bats

like thats supposed to be bats gimmick - staggering

[dry pumice]

Eh, not really

I mean would you not get staggered if slammed by a 5 KG metal brick?

Hammer being stagger god makes sense

[fierce walrus]

then bat exists too

[dry pumice]

The idea behind the bat is being smaller and faster

[fierce walrus]

i mean batons are used by police men and stuff

so surely they can also stagger

and i think thats bats logic

but overall i feel like bat should atleast have better tap stagger

[dry pumice]

There's also an argument to be made for skill difference

You can make hammer work like bat by knowing your charge %

With bat you just go no-brain mode - just fully charge the thing, it only takes like a second

[fierce walrus]

that is true

i dunno what is faster actually

when it comes to charge time

[dry pumice]

Neither do i, i just know that hammer and spear are stupid slow and bat and knife are stupid fast

With knife you can actually become quite a mean small enemy deleter

Just rush them down and aim for the head

Got me through the final bit of R7C1 way back when

"Stab, stab, stab" - TF2 Sniper

It sucks to miss the head hitbox though...

[fierce walrus]

i mean stupid slow... hammer isnt exactly stupid slow cause as you said - you dont have to fully charged

[dry pumice]

Hell, its so fast - that upon failure you can just charge it again

[fierce walrus]

i am assuming you can hold bat for longer than hammer tho, as bat can be held for 7 seconds after full charge up, and hammer only for like 3

[dry pumice]

Maybe, never paid attention to that

Honestly i don't really have particular issues with knife and bat... They are ultimately inferior options, but they are not THAT bad and still have their uses (just don't fight giants with dagger).

The spear though is in a real bad place.

The inability to sprint while chargering is the single greatest crime that was commited against it. Just give it that back and it would be... Tollerable.

Or.... They can double down on it and make spearmen absolute gods of melee combat, just unable to pick their fights. You just stand there and hold the line.

[fierce walrus]

i would imagine you could easily lose the said line if you were alone

and be unable to retreat in time

but that would make it a cool thing for inducing more teamwork

[dry pumice]

The measly 13% extra damage on headshots is another mood killer

You lose all of that to... Basically gain no interesting breakpoints? At all? Nice.

Now if it was maybe 30% - then there would be an excuse to bring that thing over hammer. Especially in giant infested levels.

[grizzled widget]

why no gifs work here

[dry pumice]

No embeds i suppose

SOme fine gentlemen worked really hard by spamming the absolute shit out of these chats to make sure embed priveleges were revoked

[next wave]

LF1 R2E1 109775242872345114 (VC-22) Please know how to use terminals

[lone mortar]

.t lfg

[uneven gulch]

Hello! If you are unaware, we have Looking For Group (LFG) channels to help users group up and play the game. They are located here: #lfg-north-america / #lfg-latin-america / #lfg-eastern-europe / #lfg-western-europe / #lfg-asia / #lfg-oceania / #lfg-africa / #lfg-beginners.

If you are unsure of how to create or join a lobby, please see the instructions here: #how-to-matchmake.

[dusky hawk]

Which special weapon is the most ammo efficient? I'm liking the HEL gun, but with the sawn off as a primary, I find myself needing to rely on it at medium range too often for the ammo pool

[ocean spindle]

well i would guess probs one of the two machineguns, moreso the veruta, cause it has more ammo tho less dmg than the arbalist
is a wave defender so, if u can control the recoil u could use it

idk as much as ammo efficient but well with the sawed off it can help for longer distances

[vivid kayak]

I personally run HEL Shotgun + Veruta MG for the absolute mindless dakka/waveclear

[ocean spindle]

i mean sawed off isnt waveclear is dmg

[vivid kayak]

Which is why I said HEL Shotgun

[ocean spindle]

... fair enough

[dusky hawk]

are either of the autopistols good in the current game state? I heard they were mid when they were in the original rundowns

[ocean spindle]

machinep is very very aggresive combat, like being very close to the enemy, and u can kill it very fast since it shoots 700k rounds per second practically, very fast reload too
autop is a stagger weapon, does 1 dmg per bullet and its main thing is just staggerin enemies very very efficiently, but cause its made for that and not to kill its more niche

[dusky hawk]

I see, so that's what blunthead rounds are?

[ocean spindle]

both are really fun but usually machinepistol, even tho the range is very very short and its not as flexible, its more than the autipistol
yeah thats what blunthead and tungsten rounds are for

same as autosentry, both are same purpose

staggerin

[dusky hawk]

I need to figure out the best way to pitch to my usual team that stagger weapons are good... they tend to be all damage, all the time

which can work, but when it doesn't, it really doesn't

[ocean spindle]

i mean depends, usually in a team u want both low dmg weapons with good stats to like maybs spam into waves and clear out smol enemies, and then one two gigantic guns to take care of the bigger stuff
the problem with staggerin weapons is that, because of how the spawns work in this game for the most part [as in one wave spawns every certain time], staggerin weapons can hold enemies off but wont kill em so u have to step in, so its ammo and tool, but tool that just holds off enemies and doesnt dmg em

so most of the time thats why people recommend shotgun or burst sentries, which are faster and even tho u need to deal maybs with more enemies upfront use the tool refill on more kills

,,, i think im writin a bit too much

[vivid kayak]

Average gtfo discussion

[ocean spindle]

i went over the top didnt i

i like to talk but i need to

hold off

a bit

[dusky hawk]

I appreciate it lol

[vivid kayak]

Nono there is a lot to say about gtfo weapon team composition

[dusky hawk]

especially since the subreddit is completely dead now

One friend really likes taking the sniper for scout nuking purposes, I've tried using the r99 revolver for it, but I always end up hitting side of head instead of occiput

[ocean spindle]

u can kill scouts with many many weapons

damn

same that, happens to me sometimes

[vivid kayak]

I usually think 1x Sniper plus a mix of generalist weapons is good rule of thumb for team weapon comp

It's only really a problem when you start seeing many high downtime/burst weapons

[ocean spindle]

for me depends on the level, i never really see snipers anymore in my groups cause one we dont aim skill issue, two u can change it for other guns like a burst cannon or even chokemods hel rifle n stuff

sniper is ok for really really fast kills but, its very not flexible

so i usually go more for shotties n stuff, which can be used on smols and bigs with no waste and enough ammo

[dusky hawk]

can any weapons other than snipers kill a scout without an occiput shot?

[vivid kayak]

Yes

[ocean spindle]

yeh

[dusky hawk]

We've encountered a lot of levels where a scout is walking back and forth at a 90 degree angle so a side headshot is the best we can manage

[vivid kayak]

The use of sniper is mostly to pop Giants, Hybrids, and Big Shooters with one shot iirc

HEL Rifle is a good example of a more generalist gun that can still one shot scouts but is decent into smaller guys if you line up

[ocean spindle]

list is, high caliber pistol, chokemod shotgun, normal shotgun, precision rifle, hel rifle, sawed off but u have to be very very close to it, and sniper

i think those are all

[dusky hawk]

high cal pistol makes the threshhold?? Nice, love that thing

[ocean spindle]

ah burst cannon

[vivid kayak]

Within its range, gotta be careful of falloff

[ocean spindle]

yeh is fun

nice sounds

yeah u have to be, close-ish, it doesnt have a lot of range

[dusky hawk]

what kind of range are we talking? We like the sniper because we can take out the scout from far enough away, through a doorway, that it doesn't wake the room

[ocean spindle]

ah yeah combat shottie can too but i think it has to be two shots, like back to back so u make sure its death

[ocean spindle]

like, defo not that, probs across tentacle distance?

like the scout tentacles distance

somethin like that

more, a bit more

[vivid kayak]

8 meters for the HCP if you want technical

Is where falloff starts*

[dusky hawk]

I see!

[vivid kayak]

Not sure about the actual kill range

Because of how it linearly decreases

[dusky hawk]

So good for instances where we feel confident in our resource economy to clear the room loudly without a scout wave

[vivid kayak]

Yes

[ocean spindle]

yeah if u dont wanna risk going for a melee, u can shoot it

tho id do recommend learnin to bonk em if arent practicin it already

[vivid kayak]

Killing a scout loud in a room is essentially trading your scout wave for the room you're in

[jagged shore]

looks like hical should be able to hs kill scout within ~33m

[dusky hawk]

HS or OS

I've always found facts like that love to fail to specify whether it's head or specifically back of head

[dusky hawk]

speaking of melee

is the knife worth using at all?

it just seems objectively worse than the bat

which seems worse than the hammer

[ocean spindle]

knifes very, fast fast fast and good for combat, like u can do 7 headshots right away and if ur skilled enough do it w/o takin dmg

bat takes a bit more time to charge and it isnt as fast, which means like not clearin a room as fast even with its stagger

problem with knife is it cant deal with big enemies

its only useful for smols

but it is nice for its purpose

[dusky hawk]

can one knife + 2 sledge + 1 spear stealth kill a giant?

Considering trying it, but don't want to kill our ability to do that

[ocean spindle]

i mean the three alone can, hit in the back of the head two in the back and should die

even like 2 hammers/spears can take a big

one hits in the back of the head, the other hits it a bit later in the back to stagger it, and the first one strikers again

[fallow fox]

what is the hardest level of all?

[ocean spindle]

R4E1

from, what ive heard

[fallow fox]

thank god...

[vivid kayak]

OG* R4E1 I see some contest

[fallow fox]

R2E1 took me slightly longer

[ocean spindle]

i mean is all about the skill

[dusky hawk]

the problem we always have is that the hit obliterates the body part, and then a subsequent attack misses

[ocean spindle]

u dont need to hit occi, just back
and back hits dont depend on if it explodes or not like the head, as long as ur behind the enemy it counts as a back hit

even if u hit it, aside of where its torso was

[vague bridge]

1 knife + 1 sledge can do it

[ocean spindle]

if its not dead, keep repeatin the one hits while the other chargers

keep it staggered, specially by hittin its limbs

[vague bridge]

its more about maximizing stagger than maximizing damage per hit

[ocean spindle]

i mean realistically one sledge can but its way harder to not wake up the room

tho if u dont care about the room then its not that hard

[vague bridge]

if you dont care about the room then any weapon is viable

[vague bridge]

plus having a second melee of any choice makes it far easier so yeah

[ocean spindle]

pretty much yeah, tho knife has to be the first hit

so it staggers

back of the head

[dusky hawk]

so, knife to back of head, hammer to back, knife to back will kill?

[ocean spindle]

im actually not sure

[vague bridge]

knife to back of the arm actually

[ocean spindle]

so the back

[vague bridge]

because occiput staggers sleep or no sleep

[ocean spindle]

the arm doesnt have, multipliers

[vague bridge]

so thats for emergencies if sledger cant get it in time

[ocean spindle]

but i mean knife in occi is like 50 dmg, then hammer on the back is like 40 dmg

so thats 90

but then how do u get the knife kill?

it needs about 30 dmg, but it cant have nor head precision multiplier nor back dmg

i mean- not back dmg

asleep dmg

knife gets a bonus when the enemy is sleepin

idk maybs im gettin it wrong

id have to see

[gusty tulip]

can anyone dm me some high(ish) quality cinematic shots of scouts? (I'm making a scout edit)

[icy cave]

the 2 sledge can do it alone

[winged turtle]

spear to back of head + 2 hammer to the back = do it in one shot

[soft crater]

if you stab the Giant at most 22 times with the knife

it will die

[dusky hawk]

I want that to be one of the joke speedrun categories

Most hits used to kill a giant without dying (solo)

[soft crater]

5.5x22

is 121

all full charge stabs to the front

unless you want to slash/poke the giant 60 times

[halcyon mango]

I believe that is the challenge yes

[pseudo owl]

anyone else have problems with the bots sometimes it'd be nice if they could pick up the objective item when they're told to

[craggy pier]

during combat they will drop anything and never pick them up again

something havent been fixed for 8 months now

or more

[tardy ingot]

Combat shotgun
With pen tho? Hel gun

[icy cave]

what azert says. basically don't play with bots

[sacred dew]

hold Q, press 2

[pseudo owl]

Yeah it's so stupid if there were just a few things fixed it'd be much more plausible to actually use them

[pseudo owl]

Only works when there's no pressure as soon as a alarm turns on and you for example wanted them to carry something doesn't work

[icy cave]

they were never meant to be used to the end as is mentioned on the store page. its just a replacement for 1 or max 2 teammates

[pseudo owl]

Ah I see well I guess they're decent enough for that

[icy cave]

as a "better than nothing" thing

[sacred dew]

you can carry the objectives yourself while the bot is fighting though

[pseudo owl]

Yes but still frustrating considering their awareness and aim is sub par but I'm not trying to be Debbie downer they are still useful here and there

[tardy ingot]

No,
The dmg multi x base dmg makes it overkill, so it kills decenty far out

[sacred dew]

BetterBot

[weary wren]

algum br? pra jogar pelo amor de Deus

[vivid kayak]

forgor the numbers just don't go beyond an obscene 22 meters ig

[ocean spindle]

buenas, hay un server en #hc-latin-america en portugues

[fair turtle]

ughhh

why can't i find rundown 6

[ocean spindle]

r6 is gonna come outs soons

[past mesa]

It isn’t out yet XD

[fair turtle]

but i remember finishing it?

[past mesa]

Yeah they took it away

Then they give it back later

[fair turtle]

damn

[gusty tulip]

can someone send me cinematic shots of scouts so I can make a scout edit?

[ocean spindle]

u can probs record em by playin w/o hud

[gusty tulip]

is there a freecam mod you know of I can use to get better shots?

[ocean spindle]

umm i think theres some mod for it

.t modding

[uneven gulch]

While we do allow the use of some QoL and visual mods, GTFO doesn't officially support modding. However, we do recognize that a GTFO modding community exists and if you are interested in them, you are welcome to check out the modding communities found in #hc-modded (If you have any more questions, please read rule #12 in the rules channel for more information.)

[ocean spindle]

u can probs search in the official moddin server

[gusty tulip]

oki thanks

[silver fable]

they used to remove each rundown when the next rundown was added, so they removed r6 when r7 came out
but they decided to ditch that policy and have been re-adding the old rundowns back as "alt" versions, basically semi-remasters
alt r6 is the last of the alts to be added, apparently due in september (people suspect early, but we'll see)

[silver fable]

up to ~22m

[silver fable]

where did you get this number from? high cal deals ~14 damage 33m out (incidentally this is the break-even point with pre-nerf high cal)
maybe you forgot precision multi?

[jagged shore]

i got the number from 14*3=42

[silver fable]

yeah you forgot precision multi

[jagged shore]

but i will double check my source yes

[silver fable]

14x3x0.74 or whatever

[jagged shore]

ah, yes i did, for some reason i thought it had it included, my bad

more correct number is up to ~22m

[silver fable]

ya

if your source is https://www.reddit.com/r/GTFO/comments/ybsfbc/comment/itip9fo/?context=3
then you're speaking to the author

[jagged shore]

no

source is raw damage numbers plus a falloff graph

[silver fable]

oh the falloff spreadsheet attached to the weapon stats sheet?

[jagged shore]

no
desmos

something i made myself

[silver fable]

fair enough

[silver fable]

knife is quite a bit faster than bat, and doesn't have a stamina penalty for striking
I tend to agree that bat is a worse hammer, but imo knife is far enough out of hammer's shadow that if I don't need to versatility into bigs/scouts/chargers that hammer provides then I'll bust out knife

[silver fable]

you're starting from an oddball place by locking in sawnoff as main
it's interesting in that it's like taking a throughput-challenged pump shotgun (which is a special) in the main slot, which is kinda wild, but imo this means you really want a nimble, "main-like" special that can easily get a new clip and is good at cutting down smalls, so I think your strongest options are either the revolver or the heavy assault rifle
but on the face of it the answer to your question is probably one of the machine guns (veruta or arbalist), or actually hel gun if you're landing your headshots on smalls and/or getting decent pen cleanups will stretch its ammo pool pretty far

but the mg's and to some extent hel gun are imo a bit too clunky uptime-wise to pair well with the shotgun mains, so if you want to use them I'd recommend switching over to a normal main

[lone mortar]

Personal fav?

[silver fable]

personal fav what?

[lone mortar]

Which ones ur favorite

[silver fable]

main? special? loadout?

gun to go with sawnoff?

[lone mortar]

Special

[silver fable]

can I say pre-sway bug pump shotty

or r7 high cal

[lone mortar]

Ye

[silver fable]

if not then maybe hel gun

[lone mortar]

My man

30dmg enjoyers

[silver fable]

I don't know, I actually kinda enjoy veruta these days too

[lone mortar]

High cal= shooter hater club

[silver fable]

but most of my special choices have felt kinda forced and/or meta-ish these days

[lone mortar]

I do too but now i just use the hel rifle as a quick action bolt rifle

[silver fable]

my duos partner's been on a major hel rifle arc lately

[lone mortar]

I mean

[silver fable]

had justifications for bringing it on like four different r5 duos

[lone mortar]

You get a huge dopamine blast made by ot

[silver fable]

we're working on r5c2pe duo right now, and he kinda waffled between a few specials before landing back on hel rifle

seems to be paying the bills

[lone mortar]

I mean

Chargers

[silver fable]

ya

chargers for sure

[lone mortar]

Whats not to bring other than hel rifle

And literally tanks, moms

And a snatcher on top

[silver fable]

hel rifle is pretty bad into bosses

[lone mortar]

It is a pick up and go gun

Not a specific one liner

[silver fable]

it's why I've landed on pump a lot lately, to take that aspect

[lone mortar]

I mean pump/hel rifle duo is also viable

[silver fable]

it is, very

I'm not saying he's wrong to be on hel rifle, it's just interesting given the usual meta debate

[lone mortar]

I mean

[silver fable]

I think he justifies it well

[lone mortar]

It is a big ideal on the meta

Even if hel rifle gets nerf

Its still is easy A+

[silver fable]

hm, hel rifle is a very polarizing gun

[lone mortar]

I mean

I bring it into any mission that doesn’t have small rooms

Or even yet just positioning lol

[silver fable]

when I say "the meta" I mean "appraisals of the gun by strong players who I discuss it with around here"

[lone mortar]

Gid gud basically

Falls short when you just shoot one to kill instead of into the wave

[jaunty latch]

for some reason the guy I normally play with keeps going pistol/hel gun

[lone mortar]

Well yea

Youre a small killer

[silver fable]

strong loadout

hel gun is probably still the best special

[lone mortar]

1 hel gun hit plus pistol clean up

[silver fable]

pistol should synergise well with it, and is a decently strong main in its own right

[lone mortar]

I just go by pdw+hel rifle

[jaunty latch]

well hes doing it when im normally running pdw/verMG

[silver fable]

rifle + hel gun was the hotness when rifle was added back

[lone mortar]

Its a very big brain loadout

[silver fable]

and rifle is better pistol in many regards

[lone mortar]

Cause of thermal sights makes me guess their position so i can always take quad feeds

[silver fable]

guess it depends on whether you have someone else on the team with a power weapon for bigs/bosses, but hel gun and veruta are kinda ultra-versatile everything guns that chew up basically anything you point them at

smalls, bigs, chargers

[jaunty latch]

there is no one else other then 2 bots lol

[silver fable]

I've done a lot of pure duos (no bots) where we just brought some mix of hel guns and/or mg's

only punished if there are mommies or tanks really

and even then you might be fine

[jaunty latch]

pretty much

[lone mortar]

T lfg moment

I mean

When you duo

Its alot more chill

When you both have tons more of resources

And can suck on meds on the run while you do it too

[jaunty latch]

oh it goes far better with us two then my experince in pubs

[spare yacht]

what is the gtfo mod banner person we send e-mail to to ban a hacker?

[jaunty latch]

just we hit a wall with r4e1 and r7c3 (the melee only section)

[lone mortar]

I mean i pair up with total strangers in pub and I observe before i stack up and help them on anything

[silver fable]

duo vanilla gtfo is imo the most tightly balanced way to play vanilla gtfo

[jaunty latch]

mod contract bot

[lone mortar]

@uneven gulch

[silver fable]

4stack vanilla gtfo is either a sloppy mess or you have too many good players and you steamroll

[lone mortar]

Dm this and send a recording if have

[lone mortar]

I mean

Its messy with the comms

But when the real shit hits

It is by far

The best feeling to have in a coop game

[jaunty latch]

I have to communicate by text and spamming the I need disinfection button on levels with no infection

[lone mortar]

Fr fr

[silver fable]

nah I mean it's unmethodical, people just running around aimlessly and getting rewarded for bad play

[lone mortar]

True

But i mean you can force em to play on your ground if you restrict alot of stuff

Mostly letting them be alone

[silver fable]

I don't know, I don't want to force people to play a certain way

[lone mortar]

Not force

[silver fable]

I don't really mind, I have a solid duos partner, I'm good with that

[lone mortar]

Well yeah

Pair up with pubs (newie pubs that always take stuff slow intentionally)

[silver fable]

I'm more thinking of things like people saying they don't like X level because it's a chaotic mess, while I'm thinking "X level is actually pretty sweet, you have to do these things and hit this deadline and execute this plan etc etc"

[jaunty latch]

I keep scaring people by refusing to crouch

[lone mortar]

I keep scaring people by meleing tanks

We are not the same

[jaunty latch]

is that even possible

[lone mortar]

[jaunty latch]

[silver fable]

an example for me was r6c3pe

I spoke to people who told me it was just a sloppy mess of people just doing whatever the fuck

but the r6c3pe duo for us was super methodical

and it was very rewarding to iterate on and refine a plan and have that plan work

very role-intensive too, both players had to know what they were doing when

and like, both perspectives here were valid enough

imo it's a case of too much slack making everything you do loose and inconsequential

fewer players means less slack

[lone mortar]

Truly

High tiered gameplay

[lone mortar]

4 man i can just sit back and go take a break while they clear

2 man i have to step up and gaming while im standing

[soft crater]

A solo making use of cheese to not have to kite for hours

[sacred dew]

lack of map knowledge means you think you're on a timer

[soft crater]

C-Foam and Mine every single door

[sacred dew]

ewww cfoam

cfoam actually makes R6C3 harder

[soft crater]

[lone mortar]

[eternal bridge]

Oh god… I’m NOT a fan of R6C3…

It’s a bit too hectic for my taste lol

[grizzled widget]

Hehehe. I thought it was pretty good, I liked it.

Overload though...

I could see how tanks might drive some over the edge

[soft crater]

knowing Wyvern plays purely mute

I can see why

[jaunty tapir]

Anyone got tips for extraction on R3C1? Wiped twice on that last two attempts.

[winged turtle]

hel rifle

and mine doors behind you so they aren't 100% clumped up

[jaunty tapir]

How would Shelling with boosted damage to one shot chargers?

Or just Hel Rifle to catch two at once

[jaunty latch]

I think the hel rifle can catch up to 6 at once if they are lined up right?

[fierce walrus]

up to 5 i believe

[jagged shore]

Number says 6 but unless something changed it caps out at 5 code-wise

[neon gust]

MANUFACTURER ALERT!

[jaunty latch]

someone might want to fix the wiki page for it then because it currently says 6

[winged turtle]

statistically and design wise it is six. just not in practice

[soft crater]

all I need to know is that I can hit all 3 of my teammates with it in one shot

[silver fable]

hel gun or hel rifle

both guns invalidate chargers

hel revo is probably also your best main option here, but that's not too surprising

[silver fable]

you mean high cal? well, but worse than the hel specials

high cal with >30 damage will knock off 6 per clip, with the proviso that all 6 shots land within 8m

which they often will, but sometimes won't

on the other hand, chargers clump up big time, and the hel specials usually just get to feast

the hel specials also have ample range so you're rarely punished by falloff

[jaunty latch]

most of the higher damage automatics work well on chargers too

[silver fable]

ya the mg's are fine

[jaunty latch]

even pdw and AR work decently on them

[soft crater]

eh

PDW maybe

I wouldn't say AR though

[jaunty latch]

AR does work just you have to be further back

not as well as pdw due to that though but its an option if the level is more open

[silver fable]

eh, hel revo is too far ahead on chargers to be thinking about auto mains imo

[jaunty latch]

I mean in my experince it sucks against them

[silver fable]

also I wouldn't call AR a high damage auto, if I'm putting together the implications here right

[jaunty latch]

when I say high damage I meant "not bullpup or machinepistol"

[silver fable]

what makes an auto high damage, then?

I feel like this argument comes up a fair bit, but I think bullpup's central issue is its abysmal uptime, its damage is fine imo

[jaunty latch]

I just pulled that term out of my ass because I didnt want to list every gun

[silver fable]

sure

[jaunty latch]

[silver fable]

(not a sarcastic "sure", I legit don't mean to nitpick a term you pulled out of your ass)

[silver fable]

I guess this is the more interesting take

why do you think hel revo is worse than the better autos into chargers?

[soft crater]

semi-autos/recoil / not doing reload cancel

[jaunty latch]

any time I try using it on them it wont stagger them before having to reload the thing

[soft crater]

one shot should stagger a charger tho

[silver fable]

weird, it's a logical game fact that 1tap from hel revo staggers a charger

[jaunty latch]

idk why it doesnt when I try using it then

[silver fable]

also one charger should die to 4 hits from hel revo

which is exactly halfway to having to reload the thing

any pens are gravy

[jaunty latch]

and they come in packs of like 5+

[soft crater]

6 chambers but 8 bullets

[silver fable]

yeah but most mains aren't killing more than 2 chargers per clip

AR is doing 2 if you're neat, and slowly because chargers are weakpoint-less damage sponges

and AR has (I think this causes RyK or someone to materialize) low dps

[jaunty latch]

yes but they can stagger an entire wave a lot easier

mainly pdw

[sturdy glen]

how

its harder to hit 3-4 shots per target at the same speed as hitting 1 with revo

• Pierce

I mean either way if you want stagger take hel shotty lmao

[jaunty latch]

I do that half the time

[silver fable]

anyway, you do you

imo hel revo is ahead of the pack most clearly on chargers

[soft crater]

helpp supremacy

[jaunty latch]

I mean im just trying to figure out why I remember the hel revolver sucking against them in game now

[soft crater]

I can only assume recoil/missing

[jaunty latch]

ok I think my memorys where of gaint chargers

[soft crater]

that changes things

[silver fable]

sometimes you get a bad engagement and that becomes your impression of the gun, iuno

[silver fable]

haha okay yeah that makes sense

[soft crater]

hel revo is still the best for those guys too though aint it?

[silver fable]

hm, if I'm going to main-only a big charger then hel revo or one of the shotgun mains is probably where I'd like to be

[soft crater]

sawed off vs charger giant

[jaunty latch]

pdw can halt them completely just by mag dumping too

[silver fable]

pump shotty is pretty great into them, so I could see it being decent

[jaunty latch]

but that doesnt work as well when theres multiple

[silver fable]

there's not much you can do with a main into multiple bbcs

[soft crater]

I'd use it more as a stagger depending what I chose as my special

[silver fable]

well 4 rounds of sawnoff kills a bbc

and the reload isn't great, but it's not that bad

[soft crater]

if I choose a shotgun main for charger giants. I'd rather have hel shotty

[silver fable]

ya I'm not trying to talk you into sawnoff for bbcs

I just don't think it'd be a total meme

[past mesa]

With enough sleepers hel shotty always becomes a good choice

[soft crater]

I'll do sawed off double taps on sleeping ones for funny double tap

[past mesa]

It isn’t

[soft crater]

but yeee

[past mesa]

Crazy dmg you get

[jaunty latch]

Ive tried it before it works until you have to reload it then you get curb stomped

[silver fable]

gun certainly has throughput issues

good thing too, otherwise it's pump shotty in main

[jaunty latch]

oddly I still like it more then pump shotty but its just because using it is funny

[past mesa]

Would be insane power creep

Just shotgun in main

[halcyon mango]

what's the alert range of nearby sleepers when you kill a neighbor, and how far does it extend when they are in observation mode

[soft crater]

yes

[halcyon mango]

some distances just make me go "how the fuck did you get away with that"
while sometimes a sleeper far away just seems to decide to wake up cuz fuck you.

[soft crater]

take into account

[jaunty latch]

if they are glowing and have line of sight assume they can see it

[soft crater]

pulsing can be desync'd

[halcyon mango]

desync, my mortal enemy 🫠

[past mesa]

12 meters

Best to just control long range anyways

[halcyon mango]

yeah, guess it was desync that screwed me over then

[native sun]

Short range aggro (killing a neighbour) has a range of ~3m. It'll instantly wake enemies within that.

[solemn flint]

knife make aggro range look like a joke

aggro? im just gonna make them go silent with my assasin creed knife

[soft crater]

[solemn flint]

knife is fun

its just i use hammer 99% of the time

[fierce nebula]

this image is subject to copyright by Illumination Studios please stop spreading false information

[shadow hawk]

anyone know a good level to practice killing scouts? Like a level with a scout early on

[ocean spindle]

i think r7b1 has a couple scouts like very close to the beginnin w/o much hassle

or u could install a mod to like have a level full of scouts too

[shadow hawk]

thank you

[hidden ridge]

R2E1 has 1 scout right at the beginning

R1A1 has 2 after the first alarm (quite fast to get there.)

[lone mortar]

Omg its beepo

[shadow sinew]

Is the spear worth being unable to run while charging?

[past mesa]

Not really

It is fine just you can’t do a lot

[icy cave]

The Spear is generally considered the worse mêlee

a noob trap and a crutch in later gameplay

[dry pumice]

Absolutely fucking not. It is officially the worst melee.

[shadow sinew]

Reeeeeally. I figured it was the patience makes perfect haha

Glad I asked

[dry pumice]

Just pick hammer, it does basically everything better.

[icy cave]

Nah, later on you actually learn to go fast. Spear can't do that

[shadow sinew]

My buddy likes the knife. Anything bad about that or the bat?

[icy cave]

except range but you don't need it as you sprint everything down

[dry pumice]

I'm fine with not going fast. I just wish I had something to show for it.

I always go for the heavies.

[icy cave]

knife means he will basically be eating glue as soon as you encounter anything else than base small enemies

Bat is hammer but worse

[shadow sinew]

Ok. So basically just use the hammer currently

[grizzled widget]

bat is basically the same archetype as the knife. it just trades some speed for breaking ability

[icy cave]

Always was hammer, currently is hammer and probably always will be hammer as the devs don't touch mêlee weapons it seems

[solemn flint]

when r6?

[dry pumice]

Knife = massacre smalls, ignore giants.
Bat = hammer junior. Less range and damage, more stagger and faster charge time so you can go on killstreaks just like knife, only slightly slower.

[icy cave]

September

[grizzled widget]

yeah, you can stunlock giants with the bat. it has its uses

but i wouldnt want a full team of them

[solemn flint]

*insert noooooooooooo emote

[ocean spindle]

one knife or bat is oki for a team

maybs two

[solemn flint]

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[ocean spindle]

three is too funk

and four is the meme run

[solemn flint]

ah the meme run

[icy cave]

stunlock can be done with hammer, Spear and bat. so just for that bringing a bat is .... meh

[solemn flint]

4 bat to wack them all

we baseball bat them to ded

[grizzled widget]

like how the spear is good for a noob killing scouts, its the same with the bat and giants.

[dry pumice]

I bring bat when I feel extra prejudiced against locks.

[ocean spindle]

spears nice for learnin i have said it :3

[dry pumice]

Fuck 3rd wheel weapons

[grizzled widget]

i just think its cool.

[dry pumice]

Don't need em

[icy cave]

Yeah and then that noob never learns to hammer them and ends up a worse player in the end

again Spear is a noob trap

[past mesa]

I only have two issues with spear now a days

[grizzled widget]

i'm not saying it isn't. a low skill ceiling is still a low skill ceiling

[past mesa]

Werid stam cost things on it and light tap 2

[grizzled widget]

even if it has negative consequences if the player wants to switch to a different weapon

[solemn flint]

where is slendi

he loves bat

[dry pumice]

Light tap = 2.0 vs hammer's 3.0 is such a spit in the face imho

[ocean spindle]

ive been here

[solemn flint]

im blind😭

[shadow sinew]

lol I am textbook noob... been using the spear a lot until I realized I could spring while charging with the hammer. i'm on R1C1

[past mesa]

Full charge light tap not killing sleepers is a disgusting break point

[dry pumice]

My thoughts exactly

[grizzled widget]

i'd prefer if the spear was a throwable javelin.

[past mesa]

Then it being the worst shove in the game

[shadow sinew]

IDK if Devs actually look at this but as a brand new player my first and only wish so far is I want to be able to trade consumables with bots and tell them to pick something up. they shouldn't be deciding for themselves 😄

[past mesa]

Plus the worst stam cost on charge

[past mesa]

Yeah be insanely good and busted also awful to play.

And it doesn’t even make sense with the spears like hold a corner play style

[grizzled widget]

eh, i'd say not having a melee after you chuck it and if you miss you wake the room is balanced enough

having to go grab it after a hit.

it'd make the "long ranged" description more unique

just saying

[dry pumice]

Too much coding for skeleton crew

[past mesa]

No literally

It just wouldn’t play well

[grizzled widget]

i mean not really. modding can do this easily

[dry pumice]

Just give it hammers base stats and throw another +0,5 prec multi

At least it will be respectable

[grizzled widget]

hell, modded rundowns have made rocket launchers and frag grenades

[past mesa]

It doesn’t need that

[dry pumice]

It does

[past mesa]

Na stam change and light tap 3

And it become an insane melee

[dry pumice]

I don't see it

13% headshot damage still not worth

[lone mortar]

which mele ?\

[past mesa]

It is a different play style

[dry pumice]

It's an inferior playstyle

[grizzled widget]

hypothetical replacement spear -- throwable javelin

[past mesa]

You hold corners with the range it is a fully defensive melee style

[lone mortar]

oh

[past mesa]

It really isn’t

And once hammer gets the stagger nerf it needs it would be one on par with knife and hammer

5 —- 1 I would hope for

[dry pumice]

Good on paper, we'll see in practice

[grizzled widget]

hell, we wanna talk about unique, how about spam only, no charged attacks, 3 tap kill?

was executed extremely well in PT

[dry pumice]

Sprinting still too good of a feature

[past mesa]

Na I have played with it for the last 3 months

[lone mortar]

too much work

[past mesa]

Ehh

[lone mortar]

and not that much to do since 3 swings kills stuff already

[grizzled widget]

haven't you played pt? i've literally done it in less than a day, with a custom model no less

i swear you were in the server