gtfo-related-questions

[civic wave]

a leaderboard run, no chance

[sturdy glen]

speedrunning can have a cap

there is nothing wrong with that

[past mesa]

I like seeded runs

[wary linden]

you are already playing the level with the mindset that you get "good rng" if not "perfect rng". just find the seeds that can get that and you force the game into loading just those seeds

if you don't have goood rng you reset

[civic wave]

and how do you suppose I find those seeds?

is there a magic man somewhere or do I have to load into the level myself

[past mesa]

Reset

[sturdy glen]

most meaningless question of all time

what do you think ppl are doing rn

were not going back in time to start seeding before anyone ever speedran

[wary linden]

maybe they should speedrun who can go back in time faster

[past mesa]

Tbh seeding can probably be reversed engineered

[wary linden]

you can already get the seed of levels

there are people who get them already

and you guys have logs

[civic wave]

Load into level, logs tell you if you get good item rng
You run the mission because you might as well, if scan RNG is garbage whatever, the run wasn't meant to be anyway
If you make a mistake and the seed is wonderful, sure, you can grab the seed from the log file and do a seeded run if you want

Thing is, though, most people will just run regular

[wary linden]

just fire a bunch of drops and collect data

[civic wave]

I don't even think the speedrun.com leaderboards accept seeded runs

[past mesa]

Yup but i mean you can probably find a perfect seed from what the ideal log would look like

[civic wave]

which gives you very little to look for from a seeded run, other than a fastest theoretical time

[wary linden]

that's the whole thing yes. the a separate thing to force the seed into the game

that last part is the only thing missing really

[past mesa]

It used to be a thing

[civic wave]

the only seeded run I can think of off the top of my head anyway was an r1a1 by bread in about 3:40, and that isn't fastest theoretical time because the RNG could be better

[past mesa]

Pre r6

[wary linden]

then 90% of the work is there already

[feral cliff]

some games allowed seeded runs on speedrun but it requires the seed to be made public

[sturdy glen]

idk what most ppl derive the most fun from in speedrunning in this game

but I dont think resetting is particularly fun

[past mesa]

It isn’t

[wary linden]

that would be the point, once the data is gathered, you make it public

[civic wave]

hm idk if I can even find the run I'm thinking of, I might be mistaken

[sturdy glen]

the r2d2 one where they have the codes already?

[wary linden]

and you make it so the seed shows up on the extraction screen so you know which seed it ws ran on

which this is already done

[civic wave]

ok so now you've gone from "run seeded so you don't waste your life away" to "there should be a new leaderboard category for this"?

[sturdy glen]

your point being

[wary linden]

someone has that running already

[civic wave]

and no, I swear at one point there was an r1a1 seeded run that was done under 4 minutes

[zenith night]

r1d1 is it really that hectic?

[upper ginkgo]

only if you fuck up the scouts
level is pretty straightforward otherwise

[ocean spindle]

its pretty funky if u dont know whats to come too

or if ur not super familiarized with big alarms

but well r1c1 kinda taughts u that

so

a

[neon gust]

r1c1 its a reactor

[ocean spindle]

yeah

its the reactorio

i wan gonna say r1c2 cause its got the big alarm at the end

but

c1 is the alarm

so

[neon gust]

r1c2 its a better example

[ocean spindle]

i mean
i guess it is

yeah

[hollow token]

how do you find recently played with people
cnat see it on the steam players thing

[jagged shore]

you don't

you remember them

[hollow token]

cool and epic

[pure arrow]

how do i get these damn bots to actually help me with the big guys... they refuse to attack him until after my hit lands, which has so far made it impossible to get past even the first level 😅

[floral acorn]

the bots are a bit inconsistent, sometimes they start shooting or melee'ing immediately after first blow, other times they happily crouch away for maximum immersion, get happily smacked to death during 🙂

[ocean spindle]

if its the last enemy, they will shoot it to death
if it isnt, u gotta stand behind the big one, and hit back of the head [or just head if u cant] with the bots close to u
b sure to not pick the knife since u wont stagger
in the first hit the big will stagger, bots run in to hit, and u charge another hit as soon as u deliver the first one

its a bit tricky

but u gotta get al least 2 3 hits in a row

and the bots if they close to u will help

[floral acorn]

if it looks like the bot fail the helping hand part, just walk / run away. the bots scurry behind you and backpedal and shoot like nothing in this world

the problems with bots start immediately when you stop to confront the enemies, every enemy that gets within xx meters will turn the bots into melee warriors and you're the only one shooting

so keep walking/moving, make the bots follow

[ocean spindle]

its just if u notice they start shootin it when i hit the first... hit ksmd

just go back n do it too

otherwise they r pretty constant

[strange cave]

Does anyone know rundown 6 a1 is still in the game? Or any level with the matter wave projector is still a expedition?

[icy cave]

R7C2sec has a matter wave projector

But no R6 is currently not ingame

[strange cave]

Oh ok, thank you very much!

[wary juniper]

Is voice chat needed to ask for anyone to join my game? Im very shy and i dont like talking, thats why i ask

[icy cave]

Communication is key to this game. You won't have the time to type it all out. Some accept muted people but it's up to the team you join

[wary juniper]

I see, thanks for your help

[spark wolf]

hi

and i am also for seeded runs

but im not sure you guys realise how heavily different it still is from using logs

with the fast resets using logs you have access to say thousands of seeds if you're grinding

with actual seeding you have access to all 2 billion of them

so your best realistic spawn can change drastically

like if you watch one of the runs achieved with logs, you can still say that you're watching a run with spawns that might actually happen for a normal game at some point

if you watch a seeded run on one of the best seeds you can pretty much say no one will ever get this without seeding

[hardy grotto]

Nice essay

[spark wolf]

thanks man

[hardy grotto]

👍

[spark wolf]

and without logs you have access to hundreds ( 💩 )

[undone shadow]

hey i just got the game the other day and im so confused on how the lfg works can some help explain it to me

[topaz anvil]

The discord lfg?

[noble sierra]

Check #how-to-matchmake

[fierce nebula]

whats an lfg

[undone shadow]

yes that is hella confusing

[topaz anvil]

^ @undone shadow

[undone shadow]

ok thanks

[fierce nebula]

guys what is lfg

[hardy grotto]

logs feel good

[topaz anvil]

🐴

[tardy ingot]

theres a big difference between seeded best seeds (1 in 10.000 at best, to 1 in 1.000.000+) vs best likely seeds (1 in 50 to 1 in 5000 at worst)

Im generally not against seeded, but selecting the seed thats chosen for each level, making it easy to run that seed (and not a gigantic hassle) aswell as still keeping the non seeded runs is the issue. Its a lot of time, work and space

[minor fractal]

SGX discovers speedrunning for the first time.

What even is this category idea?

[past star]

Speedrunning isn’t real

[wary linden]

No this is just the ending of every rng heavy speedrunning game

Because resetting thousands of time just to get one attempt is not fun for 99% of people

It also turn them off if they have limited time.

[civic wave]

mfw when I do seeded SMB3 runs to avoid the hands

and hammer bros

[tardy ingot]

„Every“ is very much a hyperbole

[civic wave]

Minecraft is also out there
RNG being heavy does not mean that people will gravitate towards seeded runs. Yes they exist. No, they're not the endgame of speedrunning.

[wary linden]

It's a one time thing. Meanwhile you reset for the same amount of time already constantly. You eventually reset more time then it would to do the thing in the first place.
In fact in your case you probably already did pass that time with resets

[tardy ingot]

what? You think we reset over 10.000 for any mission?

lol we barely reached 3000 for r1a1 over all runners together

[civic wave]

correct me if I'm wrong, but the point of speedrunning is the time you achieve, not the time you had to invest to get that time

[tardy ingot]

Yup

Most speedrunners invest thousands of hours on lower rng games

Reducing rng or removing it is often done

either via super smart research (see mario games)

[wary linden]

The point of speedrunning is to get the fastest time and shaving every possible seconds. This include removing rng to make it consistant. So seeding is a thing to remove rng

[civic wave]

Ok so I just won't bother speedrunning without tool assistance

[tardy ingot]

the rng is also part of the fun in some speed games

[civic wave]

because I want to get the theoretical fastest time

[solemn flint]

uhm eva

do u know how logs reading work?

[tardy ingot]

if only the fastest time was the goal of speedrunning there would only be console (or if you want it less extreme, any%) runs anywhere

[tardy ingot]

i made a basic video about it

lol

[solemn flint]

like do u need to read the seed of every run for a speed run

or u just read the logs to know the location of item should be at

[wary linden]

It still is the fastest time possible in all categories.

[tardy ingot]

yea
but no rng isnt the „endgame“ of all games for speedrunning

same as any% isnt the endgame all the time

[civic wave]

that's not the point of speedrunning, @wary linden, that's the point of setting the theoretical fastest time

[tardy ingot]

gtfo with no rng becomes very weird

if you set the best seeds

[civic wave]

you're arguing for something so narrow that it makes no sense to argue

[tardy ingot]

its why we like levels with no variance or low rng objectives

[solemn flint]

how weird would a run get with 0 rng

like what if all the item that u need are in the perfect position

[wary linden]

Not weird. It would just become training

[tardy ingot]

training is the closest. Its been run a fair share

but thats a level with „no“ rng as the base

Put in r2e1 and the level is like a c tier

[solemn flint]

I though a run would get really weird with perfect rng

[tardy ingot]

cell closest to gen, insta pops on the surge scans. Cell immediatly in A with big tool/ammo
again insta scan pops, cell closest to gen, again insta scan pops x 2 for alarms
cell spawn closest to gen in error zone 1, 2, 3 with insta scan pops

Oh yeah and all enemys out of the way so they dont aggro for lower stamina

[tardy ingot]

a level with lots of rng suddenly only having best rng is hella weird

[civic wave]

r1a1 with very close key, close B hsu, ammo/tool close to scans so you don't need to loot anything

[tardy ingot]

i would definetly still run it

[civic wave]

would be very strange

[solemn flint]

Uhmmm

[tardy ingot]

but its a lot of work

[solemn flint]

That is a bit too much rng

More than i could think off

[civic wave]

enemy spawns differ even on the same seed, don't they?

[turbid horizon]

when R4E1 speedrun :3

[wary linden]

But then again. You guys are always " playing the levels as if you had the best rng and you reset if it isn't. "

[civic wave]

or at least when I was going through OG R4 I got the same seed on B3 twice, with enemies being in different locations

[tardy ingot]

actual same seed they shouldnt, there have been bugs with same enemy layouts for same seed (also see training, so it should work)

[civic wave]

No. They're playing the levels with RNG sufficient enough to set a new record.

[tardy ingot]

we reset for better and better rng

we start out practicng, improving the time

The better the time gets the less rng variance we can allow

[wary linden]

Just run seeded at that point. Removes the thousands resets

[tardy ingot]

just run TAS at that point, removes the human error

[wary linden]

You don't need a single seed

[civic wave]

I'm just not even going to fucking bother anymore

[turbid horizon]

Actually would love to see a TAS gtfo speedrun

[wary linden]

Run 10-50 seeda that could be good rng seed

Then you remove 90% of resets

[tardy ingot]

same. But am too stoopid to do it

Would be doable on training for possible 4:07

[solemn flint]

Also, how can u speed run r4e1?

[civic wave]

#gtfo-related-questions message

[solemn flint]

The scan took so much time

Do u have to start scan immediately?

[tardy ingot]

?? if we had a single best seed for a level wed run that in a seeded category. What kinda shitty idea is having different seeds (which we dont have) for a speed category

[tardy ingot]

speedrunning is the process of doing something quickly. This doesnt mean it has to be „quick“

Say zelda botw 100% run is over dozens of hours long

[civic wave]

that's the result of a circular argument that results from having to take a stance that's different for some reason (not sure if it's a vast difference in background/viewpoint or for the sake of being a contrarian or playing devil's advocate)

[tardy ingot]

anyway

if anyone would be able to find a way to get the best possible seeds and make them easily useable for every single level. Then please dm me :>

otherwise, why bother lol

[fierce nebula]

uhm achually uh shit idk what to say

[wary linden]

The point is to remove useless reset wasting time for no reason then "bad rng"
You are already knowingly SEARCHING for those seeds every drop. Just make it so it is GUARANTEED that you get one of those seeds.

Also aren't you the one wanting more people in speedrunning. Guess what most people don't have as mich time to waste as you do so it turns them off

[tardy ingot]

thats again basing it off of people wanting to run seeded the most

smth that would most likely require a mod

and if you look at other high rng games isnt even rly true

[solemn flint]

uhmm, i though the fun of speedrunning was the rng

[wary linden]

Oh no mod. Pubs runs modded all the time. If they can figure it out. Everyoen can

[civic wave]

I feel like there's a fundamental misunderstanding here

[tardy ingot]

hell minecraft, a game with set seed being easy, has random seed WAAAAY more played

[solemn flint]

when u just randomly got a god seed, the happiness of it

[tardy ingot]

accessability :>

anyone can speedrun gtfo at this moment immediatly when they want to. Logs are not needed and are there to reduce rng when you push for better and better times

[wary linden]

We in a pub and people asking us to pong where to put sentry. The answer : idh your mod buddy :)

[tardy ingot]

any speedgame that forces me to download mods to run it is immediatly a „do i wanna bother“

Most people dont start out with immediate WR hunts

and again, it would be 2 categories anyway

which is smth id advocate for (smth you maybe didnt read) if set seed was easy to get for the levels

[wary linden]

Instead you want them to use logs which is still something they must go out of their way to get.
🤔

[tardy ingot]

what?

wha lol

logs are not out of the way

and are not required

[civic wave]

Sure, the point of running seeded is to entirely remove RNG
The point of logs is to be selective about what runs you play by making sure you have RNG that's sufficient enough to break the record (hopefully, anyway. God forbid you get bad scan RNG and run for 5 minutes before having to reset for insufficient RNG)
Logs is not searching for seeds, it's finding out whether or not the level is worth running to try and break the record.

And who are you to say who wants more people in speedrunning, there's bigger barriers to running this game than RNG. Try get a consistent team, or if you're running solo make sure you can consistently hold scans, et cetera. Yes some people may not have as much free time, but that doesn't prevent them from spending that time speedrunning if they want to. Doing seeded runs won't magically make more people do runs because "there's less RNG"

[tardy ingot]

theres even a logless category

[civic wave]

I don't often hate on people, but please just shut the fuck up

[wary linden]

Oh so your guide to logs is useless then. No one needs it since it's not out of the way. You making pointless content now?

[tardy ingot]

dafuq are you actually stupid?

guides are there so its easier to understand when people wanna use it

should scaler remove all his guides?

[wary linden]

So you are admiting it is out of the way. Got it thx

[solemn flint]

is the fun of speed running is rng?

[tardy ingot]

we have guides to door bug

Door bug isnt required even in lawless. Is the door bug guide obsolete? Hell no

[solemn flint]

if yes then why do u remove the fun

[tardy ingot]

depends

[civic wave]

varies from person to person, for me the fun of speedrunning is the payoff

[tardy ingot]

the variance for gtfo makes it charming

but theres too much at times

[civic wave]

whether that's the payoff of being the only person running logless, or getting a better time, both at once

[tardy ingot]

thats speeding in general for me

[civic wave]

even just forcing myself to improve at the game

I'd be lying if I said I didn't get marginal gains from running r1a1 solo speeds because you're forced to hold an alarm well

[tardy ingot]

the point of rng removal being the ending for speedgames is so weird to me

The more i think about it, the less games do remove rng

they find ways to know about rng

stardew valley, subnautica, minecraft and bioshock are just a few

in the end. If we had:

1. an easy way for players to get a specific seed played
2. that seed to be the best for each level
3. that done for all levels

then having a category for it wouldnt be an issue

say someone makes a rundown where all levels only have 1 seed and its the best possible for vanilla gtfo

[fierce nebula]

Minecraft is funny cause everyones being exposed for cheating

[wary linden]

Almost as if they want to tweak rng in their favor

Couldnt be that no

[fierce nebula]

not even that, straight up editing the video submission

[wary linden]

Well that is part of wanting to tweak rng a bit. They edit out bad rng

And replace with a "good rng"

[fierce nebula]

checks out

[silver fable]

ocarina of time speedrunners are willing to let runs die to how badly the goddamn randomly generated falling rocks during tower collapse cutscene lag the cutscene

I'm not sure what you lot are arguing about, btw

[wary linden]

It's almost like every rng that kills run will be remove. Then it will be pushed to other rng sources killing runs so they will be remove too. Making it to the removal of every rng source as the inevitable end of speedrunning

[civic wave]

ah yes let me "tweak rng" by modifying the game files to generate an impossible chest and pass it off as a regular legitimate run and then get exposed because someone generates every possible chest to prove that you got impossible loot from a chest

I really don't understand why you feel the need to be a contrarian and argue from an opposing view point no matter how stupid your argument is

[hidden ridge]

#gtfo-related-questions message

[wary linden]

Your argument falls into tweaking stuff up to make it look like you had good rng

[hidden ridge]

wasn't you slendo, my bad

[wary linden]

Idk maybe you should reread and take time to understand the point 🤔

[fierce nebula]

stabs you I think he got -the point-

[civic wave]

everyone's being exposed for cheating

they want to tweak rng in their favour

they splice their videos

well that's just part of wanting to tweak rng

they straight up cheat

well yeah but that's just tweaking stuff to make it look like you had good rng

tell me where I am going wrong

why do they do it in the first place anyway? is it because they don't want to deal with RNG or because they want a good time in a run? how do you make that distinction?

[wary linden]

Cheating in order to make you believe they had good rng.

How can you cheat that :

• tweaking files
  -tweaking the video
  They both are under the same argument and it is to make it look like your run had good rng

Do you prefer this layout ?

If you tweaking files to change rng on drops. It is considered cheating. But it is also a tweak to get better rng

Less rng -> better consistancy -> easier time to get better time

Cause and effect

[civic wave]

but why be disingenuous about doing such a thing? especially when there's an option to run other categories or game versions that will be less RNG heavy
and how does this play into GTFO if that's where the conversation around RNG leads back into? Surely your viewpoint would be advocating for logs so you don't waste your attempts on runs that can't net you a record, and that logs to get good RNG (logs also tell you the level seed, mind you) would be the logical next step in moving towards seeded runs (as it stands you need to discover the good seeds from running the game yourself)

[wary linden]

That is a completely different subject for why people cheat it.

• can't compete skill wise and don't want to put the time into learning stuff up.
• the best possible unseeded run will always be the seeded run so that means it is probably never taken since the moment unseeded get that seed and good run, unseeded is over. So more areas to get WR and because "rng" they feel like they can pass it as they got good rng
• they want recognition/popularity without putting in work in their skills

To name a few

As for why run seeded. Unseeded is basically waiting for that 1 seed to get out. The moment it is and you get a good run on it. It's over, only way to beat it is to get a better run on the same seed in unseeded

You can run unseeded. But people who does it wants to improvise more and adapt on the fly

They all know that if the oerfect seed comes out with a good run, the unseeded WR is almost not achievable afterward

[neon gust]

L +ratio + didnt read

[wary linden]

Lol

[spark wolf]

the training enemies are simply placed at specific cordinates

it has nothing to do with the seed

its an event on one of the doors

they spawn when you look at the first checkpoint door

[hardy grotto]

You guys are writing too much I don’t have the reading comprehension

Can someone summarise it in 5 words

[wary linden]

Speedrunning argument good/bad rng

5 words like you wanted

:)

[hardy grotto]

Thanks

[tardy ingot]

ah yes, the more than a decade old runs where rng keeps getting removed

looks at zelda games

oh… wait

[spark wolf]

just convince the gtfo janitor guy to add seeding into the game

[wary linden]

yes look at zelda game, any% has every bit of rng removed. people just don't like watching it because of code manipulation

[tardy ingot]

[spark wolf]

and they do the same thing for like R7E1 dimension

they are just handplaced one by one by coordinates

[tardy ingot]

[spark wolf]

FUCK I MISSED CUP OF THE DAY

[tardy ingot]

NOOO

[minor fractal]

10 curated seeds is not a category in literally any game.

Speedrunning also has nothing to do with removing RNG inherently. Reducing RNG is usually good when possible, because it means it's easier to get possible PBs, but as far as creating a seeded category that's just a category.

You also do need a single seed. If you have any two seeds, minor differences will basically always mean that one seed is always better than the other. You'd need to route and time them to know which, but any seeded category is only going to run one seed at a time based on which is the fastest one. You could run suboptimal seeds if they're easier, but that's a safety strat.

[tardy ingot]

i think sgx doesnt get the general point

weve agreed that a seeded category (if well done and not insanely stupid to implement) would definetly see running

But seeded categories definetly arent the end goal of speedrunning and neither the most run in basicaly any game.

saying speedrunners cheat to get better rng is like saying runner irl cheat to take drugs

thats a step TO getting the best time and why they cheat

[minor fractal]

Categories are generally a meta thing that has more to do with having more options for runs and making runs more entertaining for the runner.

[tardy ingot]

^

[wary linden]

i think you guys don't get the point of that specific thing. this is to keep the spirit of undseeded WITHOUT the thousands of resests required since you already look for the good seeds. this would save you m,ore time in the long run then keeping up with thousands of resets

that's all that this is

[tardy ingot]

i would most definetly help in making it a sub category (or filter depending on choice at the end)

but it will not be the thing people spam run and wont get more new people to join (not saying people wont start doing speed for it)

[daring ermine]

anyone know where the TTS voice originates from? the one that announces bioscans and threat levels

[ocean spindle]

its prob a person with filters on the voice

[tardy ingot]

it wouldnt be the spirit of unseeded because its just seeded with backwards steps

[ocean spindle]

so

u might wanna ask 10c ksmdk

[minor fractal]

I'd rather something like a weekly seeded category than 10 curated seeds, 10 curated seeds doesn't actually work.

There's a reason it's not something anyone ever does.

[tardy ingot]

the closest thing to this is probably races where they set up specific seeds that are viable but not the same

but thats races

not speedrunning

[wary linden]

if you have 100 good seeds. it still is better then 100/10000 chances to actually get a run since now you remove all the downtime of dropping, going back to lobby, dropping, going back to lobby cycles because of you knowing in advance with logs

this would replace logs

[tardy ingot]

if 90 of those good seeds are worse than the top 10 then those will be skipped

then you remove those 90

[wary linden]

and remove pointless time of resets

[minor fractal]

Okay, but why not just seeded?

[tardy ingot]

then if 9 of those 10 are worse than the best, then those wont be run

[wary linden]

that'S the thing. you can have BOTH

one with seeded best

one with 100 best to keep the spirit of unseeded without thousands of resets

[tardy ingot]

and how do you implement that???

[minor fractal]

Nobody is going to run a 10 seeds or 100 seeds category.

[tardy ingot]

the only thing i could ever see working is someone making a mod that removes all bad spawns

but thats so inaccessable

[wary linden]

it's the same thing as logs but without the bad rng resets seeds

[tardy ingot]

and means people HAVE to get the mod

[minor fractal]

It's just not.

[wary linden]

on no, anyway

[tardy ingot]

no. With seeded runs (even 10 different ones) you can learn things PERFECTLY

[minor fractal]

You introduce arbitrage, you have to make and maintain a seed controller mod, etc.

[wary linden]

true iot remove the ordeal of usings logs in the first palce, logs are used to collect the data instead and keep track of which seed is worth keeping

and you get rid of all that time loss reseting

[minor fractal]

And yeah, the inherent optimization of the category means that 100 seeds you would run in a logs or ordinary run becomes maybe 5 seeds you'd actually run

[wary linden]

so it's better

[minor fractal]

and that's being generous.

All you're doing is skipping a large part of the optimization.

That doesn't remove the optimization, it just means you have a new starting point from which to optimize.

[tardy ingot]

the „smart“ way

is a unseeded category (like rn) and a seeded one

[wary linden]

not if all the key items are in the same rooms&zones in all those seeds

[minor fractal]

But that's just seeded?

[tardy ingot]

then why not just do 1 seed lol

[wary linden]

then you also have to take into account that enemies are not based off the seed of the level layout either

[minor fractal]

100 seeds that do the same thing vs. 1 seed.

[wary linden]

plenty of rng left still

[tardy ingot]

if the rng matters in anyway then you dont care about the bad seeds

[wary linden]

this games is all rng

in terms of placements of things

this only becomes important in speedrunning though

[tardy ingot]

yea
so if seeded became a thing. It would be 1 seed

well, technicaly it can be more than 1 if people find better seeds

if youd wanna do it like minecraft does

but minecraft has the option of running a million seeds and replicating them

gtfo doesnt

[wary linden]

again, you can run 100 seeds to find that 1 best seed though so again 100 seed would have a purpose extra

[minor fractal]

I thought the point was to remove spam resetting that logs introduces?

But it seems you agree that you'd probably have to reset 99% of the time.

As soon as you realized you were on the wrong seed.

It might even get really annoying the strat becomes drop in, check for 2-3 box/locker spawns, reset.

[tardy ingot]

well realistically youd just check logs

for if you got the right seeded seed

its basically a trimmed normal run at that point

just with less rng

[hardy grotto]

fucking lumberjacks man

[tardy ingot]

but WAAAAAAAY more work in it and harder entry

[tardy ingot]

🪓

[civic wave]

Also i think i heard someone talk about keeping the spirit of unseeded alive, that's literally what logs are for isn't it

[tardy ingot]

^

with wesley currently figuring out seed checking to find out stuff like hsu/cargo/cell spawn we have all key objective items down

and even stuff like ncr

but even with that we actually need to run the level quite normally

vs seeded

where you know all in advance

and can do perfect prep

you dont know the things speedrunners will optimize

training

so much running

[wary linden]

no, you wouldn't need logs if you really wanted unseeded since you already have it but you don't have seeded. logs are the step to make it closer to seeded

[civic wave]

And there's still major elements of randomness, but you save time from running stuff that has poor obkect rng

[wary linden]

you have it backward

logs when you don't have access to seeded is closer to seeded then unseeded

[tardy ingot]

nope

[civic wave]

Yes logs are a step from unseeded towards seeded, but logs carries more of the spirit of unseeded than running the same 100 or so seeds does

[wary linden]

since you are using outside help to know in advance the seed, it is 🙂

[tardy ingot]

^

[civic wave]

Which was your entire argument, wasn't it

[minor fractal]

Logs afaik don't tell you any resource locations, which a seed dictates.

[spark wolf]

to find the good seed you need the info we are gathering now basically

[wary linden]

exactly, so logs are closer to seeding

[tardy ingot]

tho tbf, actual seeded category would probably devolve into a lot of 0.01% things stacking up

[minor fractal]

No, they're not.

[wary linden]

you just collect the data manually instead of using a program to do it for yourself

[tardy ingot]

a seeded run looks very very different to a log run

while a log run is very very similar to a no log run

youd pre stand on scans and math out minute details of travel over dozens of runs

if you had a seed

[wary linden]

you already do that in base game by following the line of the scan. it doesn't matter if you are there 20 sec before the scan show up or at the same time it shows up

all you would know is if the scan is a fast one

that's it

[tardy ingot]

in speedruns its not just standing on scan

min maxing door openings

door jumps

doing smalls scans

they dont deploy in the same frame

door breaking

pathing

[spark wolf]

and we already use a program

[wary linden]

so even closer to seeding then

[tardy ingot]

seeded speedruns go ALL THE WAY into all of those

[spark wolf]

XD

[tardy ingot]

[minor fractal]

Logs is just cutting out specific slow objective spawns.

[wary linden]

when you run outside tools to know in advance stuff, then you lose the blind spot of true unseeded to begin with

[minor fractal]

You're still loading the level normally, you're still in the dark about a bunch of information that is also RNG.

[wary linden]

just remove the thousands poiintless resets at that point

[tardy ingot]

logs at their most optimized wont get close to a seeded run

just because youd still not know it all, because you only get that 1 try

[spark wolf]

the main point is still just modding sgx

[tardy ingot]

man preach to all speedgames

Make a reddit post how all speedgames should get seeded

[minor fractal]

They are absolutely distinct.

[spark wolf]

you have to mod

[minor fractal]

In literally every game, too.

Like, there are programs that you can use to RNG manip in some games just by knowing certain information.

[tardy ingot]

and again
no one of us is against adding a seeded category if its well implemented

[wary linden]

ok but even pubs runs mods these days in vanilla lfgs. so anyone can figure that shit out easily

[minor fractal]

The program figures out your RNG for you, but the game is completely unmodified.

[tardy ingot]

but it would need a mod

[tardy ingot]

worse entry for new guys

more complicated

Someone would have to CREATE the mod

[minor fractal]

This is such a non-sequitur.

[spark wolf]

yeh but it means you need sanctioned mods

[minor fractal]

Wtf does random ass pubs have to do with speedrun rules?

[tardy ingot]

sequitur? ?

(actually interested, dont know the word ray)

[wary linden]

you already do though, you got mods that makes the game easier already

[minor fractal]

Argument doesn't follow.

[tardy ingot]

thx

[minor fractal]

Not sure of the origin of the word

[spark wolf]

they aren't "sanctioned"

[wary linden]

if a random pub can run mods easily, everyone can, meaning that speedrunner can do it too.. or are you telling me speedrunners are dumber then pubs? 🙂

[minor fractal]

I'm going to return to my original statement.

You genuinely know nothing about speedrunning in any game.

[sturdy glen]

🗿

[spark wolf]

and i have met a bunch of people that do struggle with installing mods

lol

[wary linden]

maybe the tutorial should be on that instead

oh wait it's the same thing as the tutorial on logs right

it would accomplish the same thing

[tardy ingot]

make the mod then

all levels

only 1 seed (the best) each

wed gladly use it

[spark wolf]

not rly the same

compare it base level

its installing something vs reading something

the guide on logs is more complicated cuz it explains extra tools you can use

[wary linden]

that's a community job, not a 1 person job

[silver fable]

Based on code manip, sounds like you're talking about OoT and MM, where SRM was discovered.
There's still basic rng in the rupee collection in OoT any% and in MM any% to my knowledge.
And yes people lost interest in any% in those games, but categories like OoT's defeat ganon no SRM, MM's any% nmg, OoT 100% no SRM are pretty popular. Like I said before the OoT runs have 4 seconds of time variability in a fucking cutscene depending on which rocks spawn during tower collapse. OoT hundo runs die to shit Dampe rng all the time. There's still a shitload of rng in zeldas.

[tardy ingot]

that

Also, my log guide could be 10 seconds long. But i explained the idea of logs to people aside from opening them

[spark wolf]

making the mod is easy

[tardy ingot]

but seeded!

[spark wolf]

its everything else involved with it

[minor fractal]

I'm pretty sure people don't like running SRM because the category just sucks to play, btw.

[silver fable]

lol there's basically no seeded scene for n64 zeldas

[minor fractal]

It's not that fun to run

there's limited skill involved.

[tardy ingot]

so would most seeded gtfo (not that i wouldnt run it)

[minor fractal]

It's more a tech demo to watch.

[tardy ingot]

we are talking about best seed, so its ungodly rng

[silver fable]

very true

[minor fractal]

Same thing happened with NSR, iirc. New trick made the route boring.

I think also SRM, actually.

A bit hazy on that.

[tardy ingot]

the only game/category that i know input seeded to remove an rng aspect intentionally with a mod and that got more popular after was bioshock infinite i think

where they removed 1 specfics chest rng

since that was THE reset point

[jagged shore]

yes, twas srm as well, and subsequently ace

[mossy gale]

hello

I have a question related to joining a voice or a channel or a beginner group to play with

[dry pumice]

Little late but... What was the question?

[mossy gale]

Im in the UAE im trying to find a good VPN to join any group to play with

but the voice chat is blocked here

it sucks

[hidden ridge]

VPN doesn't bode well with GTFO and can give weird issues, just an heads-up

[mossy gale]

what do you mean?

[hidden ridge]

I've NO idea if it works but have you tried ptb.discord.com?

[hidden ridge]

Game is P2P and sometimes people with VPN report weird ingame issues like not being able to start a lobby or things like that

[past mesa]

There is no way the seeding conversation is still happening

[neon gust]

Loggers 😒

Seeders

[hidden ridge]

I'm gonna go with a GTFO related question

What's the best way to deal with the last code zone for R4E1 Extreme?

[past mesa]

Code hunting

Solo or duo?

[hidden ridge]

I dont even care anymore

[past mesa]

If your solo and you have pdw sniper

[hidden ridge]

I died 3 times on last code 2 times I was helping the main code grabber

[past mesa]

Shoot A and then be good

[hidden ridge]

Noticebly enough one of those we actually killed everything but defense got overwhelmed and noone put in the code

[past mesa]

You can place a lot of mines

To help you with it

but unless there is two scouts in a

you should just shoot it

[hidden ridge]

wait you can get 1 scout per room?

I always got both together

[past mesa]

there is 3 rooms

you can have them split

two shadow giants

4 regualr giants

[hidden ridge]

yeah last room has room divider I noticed

let's say that both are in the same room

what do?

[past mesa]

it depends if room is crowed or not

if it is crowded there is no good option really

shooting one scout and expeecting it to get fucked

if you can melee one

do it

[mossy gale]

hi guys can you send me a code for a room to join to play with

i cna speak in game

uae blocks voice in discord

[past mesa]

yeah you should use the beginner LFG

[mossy gale]

i know but they all of voice chat

but voice chat does not work here unfortunately

also the chat is disabled in the group

so cant speak nor chat lol

[past mesa]

?

[mossy gale]

UAE blocks discord voice chat

the country*

[past mesa]

but you can use the text chat

right

[mossy gale]

not really i tried

[jagged shore]

i feel like asking people to look at the discord text chat is a bigger ask than asking them to use the in game voice

[past mesa]

no

i mean this isnt where we lfg

you wont find players here

[dusk wolf]

Im a little unsure about where to start. First of all, should I do all the ALT rundowns in order and then do Rundown 7 and should I just find a random LFG-Beginners thing to join? I legit just downloaded the game so Im a little lost.

[past mesa]

do r7a1

if you want to go at it by yourself

with bots

[icy cave]

R1A1, get R1 out of the way asap

[jagged shore]

r7a1 better introductory level after training

but after that r1

[icy cave]

your enjoyment of the game will be seriously hindered if going from R7 to R1

[dusk wolf]

I'd like to play with players so should I just wait until someone is doing that or try and host a game myself?

[dusk wolf]

Why if I might ask?

[past mesa]

no just do the first level

r7a1

best intro level

[icy cave]

Cause R1 is very very basic, R7 has all the newer mechanics etc

[dusk wolf]

hm

[icy cave]

he plays with folks, a team can do R1A1 ez.

[jagged shore]

my time viewing twitch has told me that you are very incorrect.

[icy cave]

Jish is right in the sense that R7A1 is the easiest level

[icy cave]

I have seen the 8 hour R7C1 run

[jagged shore]

not sure what your point with that is

[mossy gale]

why cant GTFO enable text chats in voice chats to text players

[icy cave]

that twitch players seem to be or the best or the worst, never in between

[little dirge]

do the intro lvl -> r7a1 -> any other A lvl other than R4 then do b lvls into r4 a lvls :d and so on

[jagged shore]

okay
but they are still teams

[jagged shore]

ergo this statement is wrong

[icy cave]

it aint

depends on the team

[dusk wolf]

Well I want to play with people i dont have any friends who play it currently but im hoping to make some

[jagged shore]

that's different from what you said

[icy cave]

but in absolute it isn't wrong

[icy cave]

it isn't

[jagged shore]

"some teams can do r1a1 ez" is a very different statement from "a team can do r1a1 ez"

[icy cave]

you'll make some, community is very very good

except jarhead

/j

[past mesa]

if he plays in my lobby he can do r4e1 ez

[dusk wolf]

like DRG level of good? XD

[past mesa]

not the thing to do

[icy cave]

there ya go. proved my statement

[little dirge]

if he playes in my lobby with dna then he is doomed i cant carry dna and him at the same time <-<

[dusk wolf]

I think I might see if I can find a lobby doing R1A1

[icy cave]

I can only revive nik 20 times

can't do it 21 😦

[dusk wolf]

I think i understand what you're saying

going from more content to less probably feels worse than going from less to more

[icy cave]

btw I got video proof of all the murders 🧐

[dusk wolf]

and I might be able to understand the basics better if i work my way up

[icy cave]

the thing is if you go from R7A1 to R1A1, you'll be like: where is the voice acting? where are the checkpoints? etc etc

[dusk wolf]

yeah

[icy cave]

well they not there till 6 rundowns further

[dusk wolf]

wait does 1 not have any checkpoints lol

huh

[past mesa]

no

[icy cave]

other than that it is true that R7A1 is easier to get into

[icy cave]

1 to 5

[past mesa]

that is why you should learn with r7a1

[little dirge]

but dna what else are you good for except for reviving other players, ur basically playing like a bot sacrificing your hp to revive a player :d

[past mesa]

will waste less of your time

[dusk wolf]

yeah maybe ill go with R7

[icy cave]

At least I have purpose, you waste of a slot

[dusk wolf]

i just gotta find a group first

[icy cave]

just make sure to quit R7 after A1.

R7 is still harder than R1 after all

[past mesa]

this i do agree with

[dusk wolf]

actually well I do know how to play the game

[jagged shore]

r7 ramps faster and harder

and higher

[past mesa]

you can post a lobby

[dusk wolf]

i've been following it for awhile on youtube and stuff so i understand the basics

[past mesa]

then play r1a1

LOL

[icy cave]

now put it into practice. on you go

[dusk wolf]

alright XD

[icy cave]

👍

[dusk wolf]

Now the waiting game

[leaden ice]

ищу пати

[little lintel]

been thinking about buying it to play with a few friends, does it have any repeatability? or is it just the same levels, once you beat em all thats pretty much it?

[jagged shore]

i mean

technically it is the same levels

but

there's

quite a few

and they're pretty difficult

so it should keep you occupied for a few hundred hours

[dry pumice]

The latter.

[glad grove]

underexageration

by

a long shot

[jagged shore]

as long as you're up for the challenge

[dry pumice]

There are exactly 0 objective reasons to replay levels you've beaten. Only subjective ones like just to shoot some shit because you like shooting shit.

And even then that pretty much gets limited to A, B and C tiers of missions tops.

[jagged shore]

unless you count redoing levels for optionals

[dry pumice]

Who the fuck replays a D for the fun of it...

[icy cave]

uhm

R7D2?

[jagged shore]

but you can also just do optionals first run through

[icy cave]

R2D2

[little lintel]

when you say pretty difficult, are we talking like rage 1 difficulty or any tom clancy game on hard?

[glad grove]

insane people

[icy cave]

harder

[little lintel]

harder than the first rage?

mmm

[glad grove]

uhh right next to impossible

[little lintel]

alright im convinced

[jagged shore]

think
dark souls boss
but every level is that

[glad grove]

even when skilled

[jagged shore]

with the length to go with it

[icy cave]

nah thats way too far

[little lintel]

darksouls is hard because it feels clonky

[dry pumice]

L4D on Veteran, but your guns are shit and ammo is limited

[jagged shore]

idk i've never actually played a souls

[glad grove]

worse cause ammo is a slow killer

[glad grove]

fair

[little lintel]

thats a good comparison

alright im convinced, ill buy

[jagged shore]

glhf

[icy cave]

everything is very much possible. IF you coordinate and learn to play

[dry pumice]

Although the majority of difficulty comes from raw logistics of the game

[glad grove]

just make sure you have four

if you dont want randos

cause bots

arnt

[dry pumice]

L4D was just "get from point A to point B while killing everything that moves"

[cursive stratus]

Welcome aboard

[icy cave]

yeah solo is a no go

[jagged shore]

yeah the game gets less tricky once you know specific mechanics

but those mechanics are not really something most are gonna figure out on their own

[dry pumice]

This game often requires you to do weird shenanigans. Go there, stand here, put this plug into this hole, insert 20 commands into the terminals...

Speaking of terminals: how good are you with using consoles? The... programming ones.

[jagged shore]

tl;dr LOTS of learning to go with the whole thing

[glad grove]

this is a helluva game

but addicting

[dry pumice]

not sure about addicting - i'm scared to launch this thing

[jagged shore]

i agree with it

[dry pumice]

For all i know i'm just wasting 90 minutes of my time on another botched attempt

[jagged shore]

i'd play this game so much more if i had a group i could play with more often

[soft crater]

[dry pumice]

Would be far less of a problem if not for the social element

[soft crater]

play w Artek

artek active

[icy cave]

he needs players

[dry pumice]

N... No?

[soft crater]

smh

[dry pumice]

Last 30 minutes are spent debating whether or not i want to try B2 PE again.

[icy cave]

I mean you got R2E1, R4B2 is not a problem at that point

launch a lobby, get decent players, gg

[dry pumice]

Bah, maybe... But its... Its so much work, you know?

[icy cave]

I understand, sadly GTFO ain't for the lazy

[dry pumice]

I thought playing DOTA was like a job. Fuckin' 40 minute matches. But this game... Oof.

10 minutes to form a squad and then another 60 to actually beat the level.

And that's WITH a carry in squad who knows exactly where to go and what to do.

[icy cave]

for R2E1 yeah. R4B2PE is 45

[neon gust]

have you tried adding people as friends

[dry pumice]

Yes. 1 guy. We haven't talked ever since R6C1. Mostly because of me. So that plan is not gonna work - i don't do the whole social thing.

Which just makes the deadness of matchmaking so much more infuriating. The game could be so much more accessable if you could just drop in and get it done, but no - gotta go through the entire prelude first.
... Or play with bots. Which of course prevents me from doing Overloads and - by extension - PEs.
... And reactors.

[jagged shore]

yeah the one experience i had with adding people from lfg didn't go very well either
we were all like yeah lets play together again
we made a group chat
talked about playing one or two times and then it died without another session

[dry pumice]

Its like getting through all the hoops to getting laid, except the reward is not even near as entertaining.

[sturdy glen]

wh-

[winged turtle]

hu-

[latent obsidian]

LF1M: Sex

[winged turtle]

LFS 2 more C2pe

[icy cave]

I don't remember hoops with sex? to each their own

[past mesa]

honestly

based

most sane gtfo chatter

[sturdy glen]

so true

[vague bridge]

is biocom mrs. please step into the bioscan

[naive lichen]

has anyone had waves spawn super late into the 4th reactor sequence of r7e1?

like we were at 4:30 on the time where we wiped and waves were still spawning we hadnt even seen the tank yet

[past mesa]

tank stuck

and if you kill them very slow it will happen

were you holding

[storm flint]

how

in the heck

do i do the second mission of R2??

seems there's quite the ammo shortage early on

then they eat a bunch of it making u open blood doors

THEN they hit u with the class 7 alarm

💀 💀

[dry pumice]

seco... do you mean A2?

Are you doing overload or

[past mesa]

there is a resource room

[fierce nebula]

R2 A2...

[past mesa]

if you are having a hard time

[storm flint]

im not certain if it's A

[fierce nebula]

no way

[storm flint]

checking one sec

[dry pumice]

Oh, right

reading hard

[past mesa]

a good thing to remeber is to rush scans

[storm flint]

it isnt the super easy mission where u get cargo boxes

[past mesa]

it is only like 3 waves

[storm flint]

R2 B1

it's the second mission and u need to do it to unlock the rest

[dry pumice]

Right.

Its a B1, it can't be that bad, even with bots...

Although yeah, class 7 with bots is a goddamn curse.

[storm flint]

idk there were like 20+ enemies at once

[dry pumice]

Do you need company? I cant find a level i need, so might as well be productive for someone else

[storm flint]

sure

https://discord.com/channels/408196129470152705/637414211743383553

109775241590186073

@dry pumice @turbid horizon

[arctic marten]

yo thats gonna be a fire lobby

wish I could be there

[turbid horizon]

be there

[arctic marten]

im busy and artek hates me

[turbid horizon]

skill issue\

[arctic marten]

its true

[storm flint]

ofc the MFs just breezed through the thing that gave me issues for hours last night 💀

😂

[turbid horizon]

:3 happy to help, yeah that Class VII can be an absolute wall with bots

[dry pumice]

I literally did nothing. I just stabbed some people to the back of the head and shoot bullpup a bunch

[fierce nebula]

bullpup

[storm flint]

"I literally did nothing." explains how to win a GTFO mission

[dry pumice]

For what its worth: this is a valuable lesson about bots and their limited usability.

They can't scan to save their lives.

[storm flint]

valuable lesson about my lack of friends

[turbid horizon]

BRUH

💀

[dry pumice]

Reactors, scans above 5 and... And... Errors?

[storm flint]

💀

[storm flint]

uh

[turbid horizon]

errors can be fine

[storm flint]

dont explain what the last one is?

no spoilers

[turbid horizon]

oh LOL

XD

[dry pumice]

don't worry

[turbid horizon]

🫡

[storm flint]

ive finished all but one R1 mission

and just started R2 lol

[turbid horizon]

dw that doesn't show up till later

:3

[storm flint]

another scan lockout lol

[turbid horizon]

is that R1D1 or C2?

[dry pumice]

They only do badly with clusters

Because bastards don't want to split from you

Team scans are fine

[turbid horizon]

I cleared all R1 with bots iirc

they're generally ok on split scans

clusters screw them up

[dry pumice]

my favorite is when they WANT to do a scan, but then realise you're 1 pixel too far away and leave the scan to join you

Thanks, Hackett. Real big brain on ya, buddy.

[storm flint]

first mission with the armored bois

[turbid horizon]

C2

yeah it's doable but hard

[storm flint]

got to the last scan door like 4 times now

die every time

[red flax]

Does shaking the bio tracker around when scanning make it scan more?

More general, how exactly does the bio tracker scan enemies?

[civic wave]

it scans in an area of some kind, I want to say it's a cone

[noble sierra]

It scans a cone-like area in-front of you, do note that it is narrower than what you can see from the bio but also can scan further.

[red flax]

Does spinning around while scanning do anything?

[noble sierra]

Never tried it

[turbid horizon]

makes you look super cool

[storm flint]

i'd assume it takes a single frame worth of scan

that's typically how raycasts work

[turbid horizon]

OMG with bio

i thought you meant in a security scan

i know people flick it sometimes

[civic wave]

when you're pinging enemies I don't think it'd do anything? but I'm not entirely sure

moving your camera around can give you more information from bio though

[steady osprey]

hello this is a question mostly about bots, I know bots are not the intended way to play the game but I don't have friends and am people shy so bots fill my criteria every so often. Can I tell bots to close doors? i haven't found a way to do so, also, can i command them to melee attack a specific enemy? I find that when i try to close doors myself they will walk through hte door as it closes and force me to reopen, reclose, and so forth. As for melee attacking enemies, i sometimesfind that there are good enemies for them to bonk with a bat but I don't see an option to do so.

[ocean spindle]

bots in clusters r fantastic what do u mean

if they are close-ish to u

u just stand in the middle

and u dont even have to do anythin

they run from scan to scan
only if one of the scans is super far away then yeah it sucks

[ocean spindle]

nope not really, u just kinda walk slowly to doors and that, helps a lot ive seens
no no u cant, if u hit an enemy and another wakes up, the bost rush in to kill it before it screams [unless its the last one then they just shoot], so if u hit a big one the bots rush in and u need to keep hittin too to kill it

[steady osprey]

ah alright thank you for the answer :)

[low willow]

I want to add to your last bit here

The bots don't preform any better with a bat than with the other weapons. I've heard that they won't run with a spear, haven't tested it myself so idk if it's true or not, but otherwise their melees are just cosmetic

[steady osprey]

Ah okay! I will definitely take that into account thank you

[ocean spindle]

yeah u can just have em with whatever and they behave
the exact same way cause they have their own dmg values n stuff

i need to test again the spear thing

i dont remember anymore and i was the one sayin it lmao

[low willow]

I've personally never given them a spear - I just leave them on hammer except Bishop who gets a knife because obligatory British joke

[icy cave]

also take into account that you will hit a wall at some point.

[icy cave]

🧐

[low willow]

Whar

[icy cave]

nvm its actually accurate

[low willow]

???

[ocean spindle]

um

idk

sape

hable bien

[icy cave]

the bishop part

[steady osprey]

i have heard that eventually I will most likely hit a wall yes. I have also heard that you can do the entire game with bots but I don't plan on being bots only forever

[ocean spindle]

i dont think u can

[low willow]

I wouldn't say that's true. Some levels, such as R7D1 would require some insane RNG, and some like R2E1/R7E1 shred bots.

[icy cave]

yes by means of glitching the game. in legit way you can't. straight up

[ocean spindle]

rundown 1, u can do it, c1 is gonna b brutal tho
and then on rundown 2 theres the wall

at like, d2

so

if u wanna do r1 good luck

[low willow]

And their inability to preform effectively in constant combat (like reactors) is also a big issue with bots.

I would highly recommend you get a second player. Two players and two bots changes things a TON

[icy cave]

D2 was done legit. R2E1 I think was with cheese (not sure)

[ocean spindle]

idk d2 was done, i have a friend that did it

but its pretty

hard

[steady osprey]

i will definitely keep this in mind

[ocean spindle]

:3

[ocean spindle]

good luck with ur runs, and remember, long range automatic guns are the best bot weapon :D

[icy cave]

but yeah the best solo players out there have not managed some levels without using the forbidden ways

[ocean spindle]

[low willow]

Yeah I can definitely see D2 being done legit but R2E1 with bots... you're lucky to even make it out of the first scan

[icy cave]

so just know that and enjoy the rest till that point

[ocean spindle]

yeah random made it, completeded d2

idk how he did it ksdmk

[steady osprey]

and by the time I hit that wall I'm sure I can rope at least another player in with me so

thank you all for the advice

[icy cave]

👍

[ocean spindle]

yeh blackmail a friend into playin :D

[icy cave]

I think, the last part might be a bigger issue

[low willow]

I didn't say it wasn't, but the first alarm absolutely shreds bots

It just gets worse the further you make it

[steady osprey]

I wonder if any bot-centric updates are down the line, from what Ive surmised this game never intended to have bots t obegin with

[ocean spindle]

well bots were introducen on rundown 6, and i think the only updates were bug fixes

...

i dont think so kdsmkd

well maybs im wrong but

yeah since r7 they been kinda the exact same

[low willow]

They have changed a few things with bots here and there, but I wouldn't expect a dedicated update. You might see a patch changing a thing or two though, especially if it's a bug. Then again, we've had bugged bots for how long now without anything happening about it?

[ocean spindle]

a while

i had bots stuck on things since r7, the kind of stuck where u need to
kick em out ksdmk
other than that, mhh well not going into scans

recently i think they have a bug of not havin weapons

[low willow]

Didn't it happen from alt R1? If so it was about 7 months now

[low willow]

That's always been a thing but less common

[ocean spindle]

it happened on r7 too i saw it once

they got stuck on the bright orange big room

on a stone ksdmk

also the 0 ammo tool medipacks

[low willow]

...very descriptive.

[ocean spindle]

yes thank chu :D

idk

mhh

the shuttlebox room

[low willow]

Oh that one

[ocean spindle]

on b1

oh why didnt i said b1

did i forgot dksmk

[keen marten]

whats the best weapons to use in this game or does each gun perform better on certain levels? im new to this game

[ocean spindle]

each gun has strenghts n weaknesses, they r all pretty nice in the right context :]
i would suggest u try every gun and see what u like n what u dont, n see what u choose

there is a couple, below par weapons, and theres a couple better weapons
i would say just dont stick like glue to em and just try everythin

[upper ginkgo]

nah don't bother trying any of the weapons
the only ones you should care about are hel revo, dmr, carbine, hel gun, veruta, arbalist, sniper, har, pump shotgun, combat shotgun, chokemod, hel shotgun, hi cal, smg, assault rifle, burst rifle, pistol, machine pistol, autopistol, bullpup, precision rifle, pdw, rifle, revolver, burst cannon, hel rifle

[neon gust]

All weapons are viable and are great if you know how to use them, some options are better depending on the level too

learn to aim first tho

[ocean spindle]

really u arent gonna even include a single shotgun
u lost credibility there

:3

[neon gust]

tbh if i where to recommend a loadout to a new person who just bought the game, would give them hel revo and veruta

Shotguns are a different playstyle

[ocean spindle]

i would argye, any weapon category is very different
i would maybs suggest somethin like, smg and combat shottie
smg cause u need a simple automatic that u dont really have to think it through, and combat shottie cause its great with staggers n stuff and can also just dispatch big bois

[hardy grotto]

You should try the hel shotgun and precision rifle

[dry pumice]

Wait, why SMG and not Assault Rifle?

[ocean spindle]

that's
fair

assault rifle would be better wouldn't it

ur right

[dry pumice]

I haven't seen SMG users in a long while

They just don't exist these days

Especially now that HEL Auto Pistol exists.

[neon gust]

We just need to play

[ocean spindle]

me

[neon gust]

thats old school and kinda low damage

[dry pumice]

Not to mention it basically limits you to close range only

[neon gust]

hel revo pens, staggers and have good damage, and veruta its a no brainer

[ocean spindle]

old school isn't bad tho :[

old weapons r cool too

[dry pumice]

some of them... but not smg

i tried to use it a couple of times and i just aint feeling it

[neon gust]

it aint bad but playing pubs again here and there made me realize this new gen of players need that powercreep

[ocean spindle]

i would say since hel revo is a bit more headshot intensive is only gonna land well on hands that can aim, decently

...
what's powercreep im sorry?

is it like

another word for meta?

[neon gust]

8 damage pretty stronk even if you dont hit hs

[neon gust]

when you have the new content overshadow the old

and a way to describe op stuff

[dry pumice]

New / freshly added content being objectively better than old content. Usually applies to guns and weapons.

Although such a term shouldn't even be applicable in a game like GTFO. We don't have power-progress systems in place.

[ocean spindle]

i could understand if it wasn't for the fact that both most powerful weapons are, kinda old
if we don't count all the buffs carbine had

actually

why not give em carbine?

[dry pumice]

I use pistol from time to time and its still holds up. As basic a weapon as you can get.

[ocean spindle]

it's a less intensive headshot gun

and it has way more ammo to spare

[dry pumice]

Rifle was alright last time i checked too. Its specifically SMG thats kinda falling off currently.

People always defend it "oh, it got stagger, its a crowd control weapon, not a damage-dealing one..."

Welp. Now HEL Shotgun and HEL AutoP exist. As mains.

[ocean spindle]

yeah thas not true

[neon gust]

because they keep ignoring it

[dry pumice]

SMG is out of job now. Completely.

ey' took er jobs!

[neon gust]

I mean you can use it but sadly theyir counterparts are too crazy

smg just have ammo going on it

[ocean spindle]

i would say yes smg is behind the pdw n other guns but its still just not
bullpup levels

is not out of job

[neon gust]

pdw got almost the same damage as carabine and got thermals

[ocean spindle]

its just a lil behind

[dry pumice]

hey!

[neon gust]

bp got more damage and actually have presicion multi

[ocean spindle]

they r buffin it now it seems, it got reload speed, im hopin they give it somethin else

[dry pumice]

bullpup is basically the long range SMG

[neon gust]

bp my beloved

[ocean spindle]

but the reload hurts

[neon gust]

nah just strafe

[ocean spindle]

ok i do retract of the smg

[dry pumice]

It deals almost same damage, but precision multiplier is higher and it gots very decent effective range

[neon gust]

gtfo players dont strafe

[ocean spindle]

but i still do think hel revo isnt the other best option

[neon gust]

they forgot to dodge

[ocean spindle]

also i
always strafe

i aim by movin

not with my mouse

so

:3

[dry pumice]

I'm still stubornely playing with bullpup and all things considered... What a weird weapon.

It basically has everything... Except reload speed.

[neon gust]

just mag dump

[ashen basin]

https://tenor.com/view/wrong-not-right-not-correct-error-mistake-gif-16327660

[ocean spindle]

eva says it has subpar stats but tbh i never knew which ones
i always saw it as a top weapon that was just dragged by the reload

[silver fable]

sounds busted, can we nerf the bullpup

[dry pumice]

Recoil? Doesn't exist.
Accuracy? Pretty much pin-point perfect even in full auto.
You can even hip-fire it in a pinch.
You can snipe shooters from like 20 meters with it.

In fact that is how i often use it - to deal with shooters. Just aim for the head and they die in like... 5 bullets or something.

[ocean spindle]

i just use my burst cannon when i see one single shooter

:]

[neon gust]

good

[ocean spindle]

thank chu

[dry pumice]

Its exceptionally convenient in all regards... Except the goddamn reload, which gets you killed in tight claustraphobic maps.

[silver fable]

jesus christ why haven't we nerfed the bullpup yet

[ocean spindle]

nerf the bullpup 10c D:<

[neon gust]

can we nerf hcp again

[ocean spindle]

no leave my boi

its mah boi qwq

[dry pumice]

Frankly i wouldn't even be against the reload being so long, if mag size was bigger. Make it 60 and it'll be a fair deal.

oh and most important!

It is the single best looking main weapon when you hold it.

[ocean spindle]

we would need to bring back the old model of the bullpup if u want 60 in mag

[dry pumice]

That sexy barrel, mphah

[ocean spindle]

give it the round mag

[ocean spindle]

would u fuck a bullpup

[neon gust]

I do

[ocean spindle]

askin the real questions

[neon gust]

i use bp and pr every single day

[dry pumice]

Probably not.

[neon gust]

every single match

[ocean spindle]

would

[dry pumice]

But goddamn i love staring at it.

Rifles? Don't care for them. They all looks like stubs with a scope on them.
I don't even know what SMG looks like.

Pistols and Bullpup. The only guns worth looking at with your eyes.

[ocean spindle]

smg looks slim and i tbh kinda

love it

idk if anyone does this

but if u just like spin really fast to the left

u can see the other side of ur gun

and i adore just doin that

waitin for scans or somethin

[neon gust]

i hate the fact that smg its basically the signature weapon of GTFO

and they dont buff it

[soft crater]

I remember someone just saying "I'm using the Vector"

[ocean spindle]

heyy
they buffed it

:3

0.2 secs of reload!

isnt it GREAT

[neon gust]

thats pistol

smg went from 1.5 > 1.4

[ocean spindle]

no they did smg too

ah

[neon gust]

talk about filler

[ocean spindle]

yeah

ISNT IT GRE-

[soft crater]

SMG mid-low

[ocean spindle]

:[

sad but tru

i still use it

but its tru

[soft crater]

For what it's meant for. It lacks because PDW exists

Also carbine I suppose